Joint Legislative Public Hearing on 2017-2018 Executive Budget Proposal: Topic "Elementary and Secondary Education" - Testimonies

12 Senator Catharine M. Young
Chair, Senate Finance Committee
13
Assemblyman Herman D. Farrell, Jr.
14 Chair, Assembly Ways & Means Committee

15 PRESENT:

16 Senator Liz Krueger
Senate Finance Committee (RM)
17
Assemblyman Bob Oaks
18 Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)

19 Assemblywoman Catherine T. Nolan
Chair, Assembly Education Committee
20
Senator Carl L. Marcellino
21 Chair, Senate Education Committee

22 Senator Diane J. Savino
Vice Chair, Senate Finance Committee
23
Assemblyman Peter D. Lopez
24

1 2017-2018 Executive Budget
Elementary & Secondary Education
2 2-14-17

3 PRESENT: (Continued)

4 Senator George S. Latimer

5 Assemblyman Steven F. McLaughlin

6 Senator Simcha Felder

7 Assemblywoman Shelley Mayer

8 Assemblyman Edward P. Ra

9 Assemblywoman Jo Anne Simon

10 Senator Michael H. Ranzenhofer

11 Assemblyman Al Graf

12 Assemblywoman Ellen Jaffee

13 Assemblyman Matthew Titone

14 Senator Velmanette Montgomery

15 Assemblywoman Barbara Lifton

16 Assemblyman Steven Otis

17 Assemblyman Anthony J. Brindisi

18 Senator Todd Kaminsky

19 Assemblywoman Nicole Malliotakis

20 Senator Gustavo Rivera

21 Assemblyman L. Dean Murray

22 Senator Patrick M. Gallivan

23 Assemblywoman Mary Beth Walsh

24 Senator Elizabeth O'C. Little

1 2017-2018 Executive Budget
Elementary & Secondary Education
2 2-14-17

3 PRESENT: (Continued)

4 Assemblywoman Rebecca A. Seawright

5 Senator Leroy Comrie

6 Assemblywoman Patricia Fahy

7 Assemblyman Carmen E. Arroyo

8 Senator Elaine Phillips

9

10

11 LIST OF SPEAKERS

12 STATEMENT QUESTIONS

13 MaryEllen Elia
Commissioner
14 NYS Education Department 10 23

15 Carmen FariÒa
Chancellor
16 NYC Department of Education 151 173

17 Andy Pallotta
Executive Vice President
18 Christopher Black
Director of Legislation
19 New York State United Teachers
-and-
20 Michael Mulgrew
President
21 Cassie Prugh
Assistant to President
22 United Federation of Teachers 245 261

23

1 2017-2018 Executive Budget
Elementary & Secondary Education
2 2-14-17

3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued

4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS

5 Dr. Kriner Cash
Superintendent
6 Buffalo School District
Dr. Edwin M. Quezada
7 Superintendent
Yonkers City School District
8 Ms. Barbara Deane-Williams
Superintendent
9 Rochester City School District
Mr. Jaime Alicea
10 Interim Superintendent
Syracuse City School District
11 Mr. Bruce Karam
Superintendent
12 Utica City School District
-for-
13 Conference of Big 5
School Districts 286 311
14
Jasmine Gripper
15 Legislative Director
Alliance for Quality Education 324 329
16
Robert Lowry
17 Deputy Director
New York State Council of
18 School Superintendents 334 339

19 Mark Cannizzaro
Executive Vice President
20 Council of School Supervisors
and Administrators (CSA) 344
21
Cynthia E. Gallgher
22 Director, Government Relations
School Administrators Association
23 of New York State (SAANYS) 351

24

1 2017-2018 Executive Budget
Elementary & Secondary Education
2 2-14-17

3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued

4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS

5 Bernadette Kappen
Executive Director and Chair
6 4201 Schools Association 356 363

7 Julie Marlette
Director, Governmental Relations
8 NYS School Boards Association 366

9 Michael Borges
Executive Director
10 NYS Association of School
Business Officials 372 377
11
Fred Koelbel
12 Chair, Legislative Committee
NYS School Facilities Assn. 382 388
13
Dan White
14 District Superintendent
Monroe #1 BOCES
15 -for-
BOCES Educational Consortium 391
16
David A. Little
17 Executive Director
Rural Schools Association
18 of New York State 394 402

19 James D. Cultrara
Director for Education
20 New York State Catholic
Conference 410 416
21
Jake Adler
22 Director of Government
Affairs
23 Teach NYS
Orthodox Union 423 425
24

1 2017-2018 Executive Budget
Elementary & Secondary Education
2 2-14-17

3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued

4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS

5 Steven Sanders
Executive Director
6 Agencies for Children's
Therapy Services (ACTS) 430
7
Michael Martucci
8 President
New York School Bus
9 Contractors Association
-and-
10 Michael Cordiello
President
11 ATU Local 1181 435

12 Peter F. Mannella
Executive Director
13 New York Association for
Pupil Transportation 444
14
Randi Levine
15 Policy Director
Advocates for Children of NY 450 456
16
Todd Vaarwerk
17 Director, Advocacy &
Public Policy
18 WNY Independent Living
New York Association on
19 Independent Living 459 463

20 Dr. Mary Lagnado
Superintendent
21 Westbury Union Free
School District 469 476
22
Kyle McCauley Belokopitsky
23 Executive Director
NYS Congress of Parents &
24 Teachers (NYS PTA) 479

1 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Good morning. Good

2 morning -- it's not a good morning.

3 Today we begin the 10th in the series

4 of hearings conducted by the joint fiscal

5 committees of the Legislature regarding the

6 Governor's proposed budget for fiscal year

7 2017-2018. The hearings are conducted

8 pursuant to Article VII, Section 3 of the

9 Constitution, and Article 2, Sections 31 and

10 32A of the Legislative Law.

11 Today the Assembly Ways and Means

12 Committee and the Senate Finance Committee

13 will hear testimony concerning the budget

14 proposals for elementary and secondary

15 education.

16 I will now introduce members from the

17 Assembly, and Senator Young, chair of the

18 Senate Finance Committee, will give us her

19 members.

20 I have with us the chair of the

21 Education Committee, Cathy Nolan, and Rebecca

22 Seawright is with us.

23 Mr. Oaks.

24 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Yes, we've been

1 joined by Assemblymembers Nicole Malliotakis,

2 Al Graf, Steve McLaughlin, and Peter Lopez.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: But before I

4 introduce the first witness, I would like

5 to --

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Wait, don't forget

7 about the Senate.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Oh, I'm sorry. Oh,

9 my God, what did I do?

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Don't forget about

11 the Senate.

12 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: The bright red got

13 my mind -- yes, Senator.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you very

15 much.

16 Good morning, and Happy Valentine's

17 Day. I'm Senator Catharine Young, and I'm

18 chair of the Senate Standing Committee on

19 Finance.

20 And I'm joined by my colleagues from

21 the Senate. We have Senator Diane Savino,

22 who is vice chair of the Senate Finance

23 Committee. We have Senator Liz Krueger, who

24 is ranking member. We have Senator Carl

1 Marcellino, who is chair of the Senate

2 Standing Committee on Education. And we also

3 have Senator George Latimer, who is ranking

4 member on the Education Committee.

5 So thank you, Mr. Chairman.

6 Oh, and Senator Michael Ranzenhofer,

7 who is a great Senator who hails from Western

8 New York. There's a little plug there,

9 Michael.

10 Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: And we've been

12 joined also by Assemblywoman Ellen Jaffee and

13 Assemblyman Otis.

14 But before introducing the first

15 witness, I would like to remind all of the

16 witnesses testifying today to keep your

17 statements within your allotted time limit so

18 that everyone is afforded the opportunity to

19 speak. And the clocks are on the side. And

20 if you can keep your eyes on that, it will

21 help.

22 I will now call the first witness,

23 which is MaryEllen Elia, commissioner of the

24 New York State Education Department.

1 Good morning.

2 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Good morning,

3 Chairs Young, Farrell, Nolan and Marcellino,

4 and members of the Senate and Assembly here

5 today.

6 My name is MaryEllen Elia, and I am

7 the Commissioner of Education. I am joined

8 by Executive Deputy Commissioner Beth Berlin

9 and Senior Deputy Commissioner for Education

10 Policy Jhone Ebert.

11 You have my full testimony before you.

12 I'll speak to a few slides, and then we'll be

13 happy to address your questions.

14 Before I begin, I also want to welcome

15 several members of the Board of Regents who

16 are in the audience with us today, including

17 Chancellor Betty Rosa and Regents Young,

18 Cashin and Mead. Our board members are

19 dedicated people who care deeply about

20 creating and sustaining an education system

21 that works for all New Yorkers. I want to

22 thank them all for the work they do and for

23 being here today.

24 Our first priority in this budget is

1 to ensure that our schools are fairly funded

2 through significant investments in Foundation

3 Aid. As you can see on Slides 2 and 3, the

4 Regents have proposed a 2.1 billion increase

5 in school aid, consisting of a $1.4 billion

6 increase in Foundation Aid, $335 million to

7 cover formula-based expenses, and

8 $290 million in investments that we believe

9 are critical to address areas where gaps

10 exist and where educational resources need to

11 make a difference for our students.

12 Furthermore, the Regents and I urge

13 you to sustain the Foundation Aid phase-in.

14 We recommend a three year phase-in of the

15 full amount.

16 Slides 4 through 9 highlight the

17 investments we recommend. We urge you to

18 make a significant down payment on universal

19 pre-kindergarten by investing $100 million

20 for full-day seats.

21 By just about every measure, we know

22 that high-quality early childhood education

23 opportunities put students on a path to

24 educational success, reduce special education

1 placements, and even increase the chances of

2 a student eventually attending college. This

3 is one of the best investments that you can

4 make in this budget, and I look forward to

5 working with you to make it a reality.

6 We commend the recent investments that

7 have been made in pre-K. However, those

8 investments have resulted in a siloed,

9 fragmented system of seven separate

10 pre-kindergarten programs. If you take a

11 look at Slide 5, you can see the web of pre-K

12 programs and their various requirements and

13 parameters. If we were starting from

14 scratch, this is not the system that we would

15 have built, so let's work together to get

16 this right.

17 We are pleased to see that the

18 Executive Budget proposes a solution to this

19 problem, and we urge you to align the

20 existing state-funded pre-K programs into one

21 allocational streamlined system so that

22 communities do not have to compete against

23 each other for this funding.

24 While efforts to expand pre-K to

1 3-year-olds are laudable, the state should

2 first ensure that all 4-year-olds have a

3 high-quality full-day pre-K seat before we

4 further expand to 3-year-olds.

5 I also urge you to reject a provision

6 in the budget that would cause school

7 districts to lose pre-K funding if they

8 convert full-day seats to half-day seats, or

9 if they lose a full-day seat. This punitive

10 approach benefits no one.

11 On Slide 7, we describe our request

12 for dedicated funding to support English

13 language learners. New York has a remarkably

14 diverse student population. About 8 percent

15 of the state's public school students are

16 English language learners, and they speak

17 over 200 different languages. While we have

18 made progress serving the unique learning

19 needs of these students, we know that much

20 work remains. "Ever ELLs," a term we use to

21 refer to students who at one point received

22 ELL services, have just about eliminated the

23 achievement gaps with their non-ELL peers on

24 various measures, including meeting the

1 state's 80 percent graduation rate goal.

2 However, the graduation rate for

3 current English language learners dropped

4 this year to 26.6 percent, and we are focused

5 on helping districts turn around these

6 results. We've laid a good foundation with

7 the modernization of Part 51 regulations that

8 govern requirements for the education of

9 ELLs.

10 This year we will focus on efforts to

11 better support the inclusion of English

12 language learners into general education and

13 helping districts better support SIFE

14 students -- that is students with interrupted

15 formal education -- as they transition to

16 schools in New York.

17 The Regents and I are firmly committed

18 to these students, and we seek your support

19 of our budget priorities aimed at making sure

20 districts have the resources they need to

21 help these students succeed.

22 On Slide 8, the Regents and I once

23 again are requesting significant investments

24 to expand Career and Technical Education

1 pathways. We recommend a $60 million

2 investment through changes to reimbursements

3 for CTE programs that would support the

4 creation of high-quality pathway

5 opportunities.

6 Several years ago the Regents approved

7 a 4+1 multiple pathways model which allows

8 all students to substitute one of the social

9 studies Regents exams with approved

10 alternatives. Districts and BOCES need

11 support so that their programming can catch

12 up to the demands of the economic development

13 in each community.

14 We have taken administrative actions

15 to support the development of CTE programs

16 by, for example, modifying certification

17 requirements so that experts in fields from

18 various trades can teach these classes.

19 However, efforts to expand these programs

20 will depend on additional support and

21 funding.

22 As I travel the state, I have

23 uniformly heard positive feedback about the

24 multiple pathways model. Your one-house

1 budgets have included versions of those

2 proposals recently, so let's work together to

3 make sure this is the year these investments

4 come to fruition.

5 As you can see on Slide 9, the Regents

6 state aid proposal also requests $30 million

7 to create a Professional Development Fund.

8 So let me point out to you there is no

9 predictor as important to the students

10 success as the quality of the teacher in

11 front of them. As you know, we are moving

12 forward with new learning standards. We need

13 to avoid the mistakes of the past to make

14 sure that teachers have the professional

15 development support and resources to

16 understand the standards so that they know

17 how to deliver them in their classrooms.

18 During my travels around the state,

19 many teachers have directly told me that they

20 would like to have more and better

21 professional development opportunities.

22 Slides 10 through 24 describe our

23 agency budget priorities. I'll speak briefly

24 to a few of the priorities and ask that you

1 take some time to review the rest.

2 On Slide 11, we highlight a $2 million

3 budget request to update and modernize two

4 important systems within the department. One

5 is our state aid modeling system that

6 produces the school aid runs and is written

7 in the COBOL language. It is so outdated

8 that only one person in the department is

9 fully trained to operate it.

10 The second is our DOS platform-based

11 facilities planning system, which we use to

12 receive, track, review and approve all

13 building and facility projects that require

14 department approval -- which now also

15 includes the Smart Schools Bond Act projects.

16 Both of these systems are outdated and

17 the question is not if they will fail, really

18 the question is when they will fail.

19 On Slide 12, we are requesting

20 $700,000 to create a special education

21 provider data system. As you know, the

22 department regulates and sets reimbursement

23 rates for a large system of public and

24 private providers that educate students with

1 the most severe disabilities. While we have

2 several systems collecting data related to

3 these programs, the systems were developed

4 separately, and they cannot share information

5 with each other.

6 We believe that with a uniform system

7 we will not only be able to better serve the

8 programs, but also enhance reporting about

9 special education services. This is a

10 relatively small investment that would help

11 us improve both the service delivery for

12 students with disabilities and our

13 rate-setting process, which I know is very

14 important to many of you.

15 As I mentioned earlier, the department

16 is focused on the needs of ELL students, and

17 our state aid proposal includes a funding

18 request to help districts better serve these

19 students. On Slide 16 we request funding to

20 make improvements to our testing program to

21 better serve English language learners.

22 I'd like to bring to your attention

23 that as part of this budget proposal, we are

24 requesting $1 million to translate all the

1 required state assessments into the state's

2 eight most common home foreign languages.

3 The final issue I would like to

4 mention relates to the department's lack of

5 operating resources from the state. SED is

6 the most staff-deprived state education

7 agency in the country, based on the broad

8 scope of responsibilities that we have.

9 Quite simply, the department's funding levels

10 and our inability to fill positions that have

11 been approved by the Legislature is no longer

12 sustainable. We are at a point in too many

13 offices where we simply cannot keep up with

14 the work of serving districts, teachers, and

15 your constituents.

16 On Slide 20 we request that you

17 implement a 5 percent set-aside for

18 administration and oversight within new

19 programs. This is a common practice across

20 the federal government and would allow us to

21 keep up as our responsibilities grow.

22 I also request your assistance in

23 helping us fill authorized but unfilled

24 positions within the department. Every year,

1 as part of the state operations budget, you

2 vote and approve an FTE level for state

3 agencies. For several years now, our fill

4 level has been flat at 2692 positions across

5 all program offices and locations.

6 However, we require approval from the

7 Division of Budget before we can fill

8 positions even though we are well below our

9 authorized FTE level. For several months we

10 did not have approval to fill 280 of those

11 positions, representing over 10 percent of

12 our workforce, and that equates to about

13 42,000 work hours per month. Although we

14 appreciate the approval of 150 positions late

15 yesterday, this is a problem that is not

16 going away, and we need your assistance to

17 make sure the department has timely access to

18 the resources that you have approved.

19 We have a very committed staff that

20 have worked diligently to keep up as best

21 they can. Despite their efforts, the lack of

22 staffing is a real problem that affects

23 everyday New Yorkers, including pre-K

24 students, disabled adults, and aspiring

1 teachers. In our Teacher Certification

2 Office, for example, we had eight positions

3 to fill. It takes us longer to review and

4 approve certification requests for teachers,

5 who are your constituents, that are waiting

6 to start their jobs. Even with yesterday's

7 approvals, two waivers were left unapproved,

8 preventing us from bringing the office to

9 full capacity.

10 Another example, the Office of

11 Facilities Planning, which has significant

12 and growing responsibilities related to the

13 Smart Schools Bond Act. There are two

14 positions in that office that we have not

15 been authorized to fill.

16 In 2010, when our Early Learning

17 Office oversaw $399 million of UPK funding,

18 we had 13 state-funded staff. Today we are

19 overseeing $828 million in pre-K programming,

20 and the number of state-funded staff has

21 dropped to 10. We need your help. And by

22 supporting the department, you will be

23 supporting your constituents in your

24 communities.

1 In closing, I want to bring your

2 attention to Slides 26 to 30, which puts in

3 focus the urgency of work we do everyday at

4 the department. Our students compete for

5 jobs not only with their peers in New York

6 and in other states, they compete globally.

7 And objective results show that we are

8 falling behind other nations in science,

9 reading and math.

10 I want to draw your attention to

11 Slide 29. In reviewing PISA results, there

12 is a roadmap to address these challenges. As

13 Amanda Ripley wrote about the results:

14 "Generally speaking, the smartest countries

15 tend to be those that have acted to make

16 teaching more prestigious and selective;

17 directed more resources to their neediest

18 children; enrolled most children in

19 high-quality preschools; helped schools

20 establish cultures of constant improvement;

21 and applied rigorous, consistent standards

22 across all classrooms."

23 The path forward parallels the agenda

24 we've laid out today and includes supporting

1 and developing teachers and principals,

2 providing resources to our high-needs

3 communities, and investing in early childhood

4 education. I'm very proud of the teaching

5 and learning I see in schools throughout the

6 state. I trust that our educators and

7 students can continue to rise to the

8 challenge. They need your help to do so. As

9 I've mentioned before, our K-12 schools are

10 our most important infrastructure to develop

11 our workforce and workforce pipeline. And

12 ultimately, great schools are our best

13 economic development strategy.

14 So let's work together to make sure

15 this budget provides the resources and

16 supports our students' need to succeed.

17 Thank you, and I look forward to your

18 questions.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

20 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

21 much.

22 Mr. Oaks, you have someone?

23 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Just to let you

24 know that we've been joined by Assemblyman Ra

1 and Assemblywoman Walsh.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. We've

4 been joined by Senator Simcha Felder, Senator

5 Todd Kaminsky, and Senator Gustavo Rivera.

6 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Now to begin, Cathy

7 Nolan, Assemblywoman and chair of Education.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you,

9 Mr. Farrell and my colleagues. I just want

10 to say briefly, as a -- I have some

11 questions, but I just want to thank

12 Commissioner Elia. And I really believe I

13 speak for many members, I hope most members

14 if not all the members of the Legislature,

15 that, you know, your accessibility, your high

16 visibility, your going around the state, your

17 listening to teachers and families and

18 students has made such a key difference in I

19 think generating support for education but

20 also taking down the temperature a little.

21 It's been a very contentious couple of years.

22 And the fact that Chancellor Rosa is here

23 today, with a number of members of the Board

24 of Regents -- Regent Mead, Regent Cashin,

1 Regent Young -- makes I think a very positive

2 statement to everybody here in the

3 Legislature.

4 You know, these hearings, my

5 colleagues, are very unique because the rest

6 of the Article VII finance hearings review

7 the executive agencies and the performance of

8 the executive agencies. Education is very

9 unique in our state because -- because we

10 appoint the members of the Board of Regents,

11 who then appoint the Commissioner of

12 Education -- you have a slightly different

13 relationship both with the Legislature, we

14 need to take more ownership of that, and also

15 with the executive agencies.

16 So I just want to say, on behalf I

17 think of many, what a real great high-energy

18 performance you've had and we're glad to have

19 you back again this year.

20 I do have a question that -- but I

21 want to talk a little bit about Foundation

22 Aid first off. I want to make it clear that

23 any repeal of Foundation Aid in this budget

24 by the Executive is entirely -- it's just

1 completely unacceptable. We cannot go

2 forward after a court case, after 20 years of

3 work and effort, to have a system of

4 education funding that is about wheeling and

5 dealing and not about aligning funding with

6 need, letting the funding go to the children

7 that have the most needs. And we cannot walk

8 away from that. And I'm sorry to say there

9 are portions of this proposed Executive

10 Budget that very much do that.

11 But I want to focus on what the

12 Regents have proposed, which is the

13 Foundation Aid formula moving forward. The

14 amount you're looking at for this year would

15 be a phase-in of $1.47 billion, is that

16 correct?

17 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Yes, that's

18 correct.

19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: All right. And

20 then of that, it would be -- the formula that

21 we are currently using that the Regents and

22 the State Ed department -- prior to your

23 tenure, obviously -- developed focuses on

24 what? Maybe you can just enlighten all of us

1 a little bit about why that formula follows

2 need and just talk a little bit about the

3 component parts.

4 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So there are

5 several factors included in the formula. And

6 I think the important thing is that in fact

7 as we're doing the formula work, we know that

8 it's important to make sure that the formula

9 itself is relevant. We suggested and the

10 Executive Budget included some shifts in the

11 formula that we think would update it.

12 Number one, we looked at the way we

13 would determine the students that are at most

14 high need, and so that has been updated based

15 on the requirements of the free and reduced

16 lunch programs and the data that we have

17 related to that. We also have looked at and

18 said that there are other formula pieces that

19 can be shifted, and we're doing that. The

20 Executive Budget also included those, and I

21 think it's noteworthy to know that.

22 But the basis for the Foundation Aid

23 and that formula itself is included as a

24 portion of the way that we have developed the

1 structure for the Regents budget. So the 1.4

2 that you mentioned that specifically is the

3 Foundation Aid, we made a suggestion and our

4 budget reflects a three-year phase-in of

5 Foundation Aid. And we think that that is an

6 appropriate way to look at the growth as we

7 move forward -- understanding constraints

8 that might be part of this budget, but as we

9 move forward, a three-year phase-in of full

10 Foundation Aid was what was suggested by the

11 Regents.

12 And the portion that we have is the

13 expense-based aid for $335 million.

14 Certainly we know expense-based aid gets paid

15 to the districts after the fact. And we

16 believe that it's important to include that

17 as well.

18 And what you heard about the key

19 investments that the Regents and the State Ed

20 Department have identified is very critical

21 in moving education forward here. But we are

22 supportive of maintaining the Foundation Aid,

23 and our suggested budget includes a

24 three-year phase-in of that.

1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I want to also

2 ask -- and it's funny, as she's just coming

3 in, Assemblywoman Arroyo -- but I do want to

4 ask about the Regents' very strong

5 recommendation, which certainly has my

6 support, as do your other Engage NY budget

7 recommendations, for $100 million for English

8 language learners. I think it's such a

9 critical part of what we're doing. I don't

10 know if every colleague has -- you know, I

11 have the privilege, as chair of the

12 committee, of reading everything you guys

13 send me, those telephone-directory-sized

14 books that we get in the mail and online.

15 But you might want to talk a little

16 bit about why that's so critical, because I

17 think people have to realize in a global

18 world, and our globalized state, children are

19 coming in from all over the world. And to

20 me, it's such a marvelous, wonderful thing,

21 because it's an opportunity for children to

22 interact together. I always say my own son,

23 who is a student in a public school, has

24 received a wonderful education just in his

1 social maturity, you know, as a person

2 because he knows people from everywhere. And

3 he can -- when he goes into business one

4 day -- hopefully he will not go into

5 politics, he'll go into business -- he will

6 be able to work and deal with everyone. So,

7 you know, to me it's so wonderful.

8 But maybe you can talk a little bit

9 about English language learners.

10 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Absolutely.

11 I think there's a number of data

12 points that are extremely important that are

13 the basis for this recommendation to you as

14 well as to the Executive. So if you look at

15 the 3-8 assessment data that we had,

16 specifically the group of English language

17 learners are those students that need to have

18 the most support.

19 In 2014, the Regents approved changes

20 in the regulations that updated the

21 regulations related to supporting students

22 who were English language learners or SIFE

23 students -- that is, students with

24 interrupted education who come to this

1 country --

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I don't mean to

3 interrupt, but I also just want like a

4 number. Like we have 3 million students in

5 public schools. How many English language

6 learners do we have in our state?

7 COMMISSIONER ELIA: We have 8 percent

8 of our public school students across the

9 state speaking 200 languages. And so as they

10 come in and they're working with our teachers

11 across the state, it's absolutely critical

12 that we address the needs that they have. We

13 have the 3-8 assessments that show that they

14 need specifically that support in English

15 language as well as in mathematics.

16 But also I want to point out to you

17 our recent graduation rate. We had wonderful

18 success with students who had been in the

19 English Language Learner Program and exited;

20 that is, the Ever ELLs. They had been in it,

21 but they are out, and they were one of the

22 groups that had the highest graduation

23 rates -- in fact, above 80 percent.

24 However, those students that are still

1 in the English Language Learner Program

2 across the state have much work to be done to

3 support them. And I think it's absolutely

4 critical. The two data points that we have

5 clearly point to the needs of that particular

6 population, and it's absolutely critical that

7 we work to support them.

8 So our work does include opportunities

9 for the $100 million to be used for

10 supporting teachers in strategies that will

11 support those students better, to include

12 family engagement programs, to provide

13 services to our ELL students, particularly

14 our new ELL students, and the SIFE students

15 that come that have had interrupted education

16 and need to catch up even further.

17 So we feel that's an extremely

18 important investment.

19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you very

20 much. I just want to pledge again our

21 support, my support, for trying to get you

22 the resources you need to run the department.

23 I certainly feel, over my tenure, very, very

24 bad that we have not. I said it to

1 Chancellor Tisch, I said it to Chancellor

2 Bennett, I'm saying it now to Chancellor

3 Rosa: We will try to do better by this

4 important department so that you can provide

5 the services that you need. It's been a

6 frustrating thing. We've not been as

7 successful as I would like. But I just want

8 to pledge again our support, my support, to

9 try to get you the resources you need to run

10 the State Education Department, such an

11 important and historic branch of our state

12 government.

13 And you should not be unfairly

14 penalized because you're not an executive

15 agency, the way some others are, which

16 receive, say, 50 percent, 60 percent,

17 80 percent of their funding from state levy

18 dollars. And you're our State Education

19 Department, and what is it, 8 percent of your

20 staff is paid --

21 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Yes.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I mean, it's

23 terrible. Terrible. It shouldn't be. So we

24 have to work to better that.

1 And my last quick thing with my last

2 seconds, I just want to reinforce -- we

3 didn't get a chance to talk about it today --

4 my support for adult education. Sometimes

5 it's a little bit forgotten in terms of all

6 that big elementary/secondary money, but you

7 also have such responsibilities for that and

8 for getting people a high school diploma at

9 any stage of life.

10 And, you know, we were able to tour

11 some facilities that are literally teaching

12 adults to read. You know, we take it for

13 granted, those of us who read all the time

14 for a living, but there are people that --

15 and people born in this country who cannot,

16 as adults, read, and it always breaks my

17 heart.

18 So I appreciate -- I know your deputy

19 is here from that department as well, and we

20 appreciate your leadership on that.

21 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I think it's

22 particularly important when one of the

23 proposals that we have in front of you is for

24 the Bridge program. The bridge program is

1 paralleled off of LaGuardia High School in

2 New York City that has done a magnificent job

3 of supporting students who don't have a high

4 school diploma but want to come back and

5 further their education. And the program

6 that we're suggesting would allow that to

7 occur. We want to put in some pilots around

8 the state and support that population who did

9 not end up with a diploma, whether they were

10 English language learners or whether they

11 were from other states or whether they were

12 from New York State, but they want to become

13 part of our workforce now. And the Bridge

14 program that we've modeled off of LaGuardia

15 is a great program that I think would help

16 whatever communities were able to put that in

17 as a pilot.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you.

19 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

20 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

21 We've been joined by Assemblywoman

22 Carmen Arroyo.

23 And Senator?

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

1 Senator Carl Marcellino, chair of the

2 Senate Education Committee.

3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you very

4 much, Senator.

5 Commissioner Elia, I wanted to

6 congratulate you and thank you very much for

7 the cooperation that you and your staff over

8 at State Ed have certainly supplied myself

9 and my staff. Whenever we've asked questions

10 and whenever we've had information that

11 required calling over there, we've always

12 gotten a response and it's been prompt and

13 it's always been accurate.

14 So I thank you for that. You do and

15 are doing an excellent job, in my opinion.

16 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Some years ago --

18 some of you may know that Cathy was a former

19 student of mine at Grover Cleveland High

20 School. And our old principal had said to

21 me, you know --

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Hard to believe,

23 but true.

24 (Laughter.)

1 SENATOR MARCELLINO: My old principal,

2 who was the longest-serving principal in the

3 history of the city, said to me one day, he

4 says, "You know, that Nolan kid, she's going

5 to go into politics." And I said, "Nah,

6 she's too smart for that."

7 (Laughter.)

8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I'm not sure

9 which one of us turned out to be correct, but

10 the working relationship has been a good one.

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you.

12 Thank you so much. Thank you.

13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: You've made a

14 presentation here and you've made a case for

15 about 2-plus billion dollars in aid to the

16 schools. The Governor is offering, in his

17 budget, about a billion dollars, give or

18 take. Why isn't the Governor's number

19 enough?

20 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I think, you

21 know, I've tried to point out some of

22 the voids that we have in the particular --

23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Could you hit the

24 really salient points? I know you did. But

1 can you hit the really salient points, the

2 key ones that make the fact that the billion

3 is not enough?

4 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Okay. So if you

5 look at the budget that we've proposed, we're

6 actually saying that not only is a phase-in

7 of the Foundation Aid a necessary thing -- so

8 we took the amount of Foundation Aid that

9 is -- right now can be calculated, which is

10 done through our systems, and we divided that

11 in three. And that's a portion of what we're

12 talking about for Foundation Aid.

13 And when you look at the investments

14 that we see in the Executive Budget, there

15 are some very -- I think some major voids

16 that are existing, first of all. If we're

17 going to push for quality pre-K across the

18 state, the Governor's budget calls for a $5

19 million investment in that. We have already

20 seen across the state that those children who

21 come into a quality pre-K program and have

22 that, they have experienced more success in

23 our elementary grades, in 1 through 3. And

24 we saw this past year that we had a

1 substantive growth in our third grade in

2 their assessments.

3 So the point of saying that we're

4 going to put $5 million in is an investment,

5 but it is not enough. And across the

6 state -- if you look at page 5, you can see

7 the vast array of programs -- with the

8 $5 million, the Executive Budget calls for

9 that to go out in an RFP. Even though there

10 are some shifts that are made to give that

11 initially to those students who are most in

12 need, it's really a critical thing to put

13 funding into that program.

14 The other thing I want to point out is

15 specifically the Governor's budget doesn't

16 address some of the other key things that we

17 think are extremely important, driven by data

18 that we have, and that is English language

19 learners and the work that we have to do with

20 English language learners. Let me say that

21 that is affecting districts all over the

22 state, the supports and the help that they

23 need to make sure that those students can be

24 successful.

1 It is an important opportunity, and I

2 want to laud Cathy Nolan's point about the

3 fact that we ought to celebrate the fact that

4 we have diversity in this state, and support

5 those students and families to the best

6 extent that we can. And his budget does not

7 address that, and we believe that's a very

8 critical point.

9 And let me point out one of the other

10 key things -- and you and I, Senator

11 Marcellino, have had these conversations,

12 individually and in groups that you've put

13 together out on Long Island and here in

14 Albany. Specifically, there were some errors

15 made in the speed with which we moved out new

16 standards and new assessments in New York

17 State. And one of the key areas that was not

18 addressed in that previous rollout was the

19 work that needs to done with teachers and

20 with principals in training them to be ready

21 to deliver new standards.

22 You and I were also, with

23 Assemblywoman Nolan, we were on the

24 Governor's Task Force on Common Core, with

1 the recommendations that came out of that,

2 and specifically those recommendations called

3 for some changes that we at the State Ed

4 Department are working to develop. But one

5 of the key things in there was the constant

6 discussion that we heard across the state

7 from teachers and principals of the great

8 need to support teachers in their classrooms

9 every day.

10 The Governor's budget does not include

11 that. And I think it is an extremely

12 important factor if we are to do the things

13 that are necessary to right this ship of

14 New York State's education and the quality

15 reforms that have been put in place, the

16 supports that we need for separate

17 populations, to help our teachers and

18 principals get to be where they need to be.

19 And I think you can see that when they

20 are given support, we have in those

21 particular districts seen great supports for

22 students.

23 So I think those are some key areas

24 that are not included in the Governor's

1 budget that are important for all of us in

2 New York.

3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: The English

4 language learners, the kids that have been

5 coming in, over the past three years, the

6 statistics that I've seen, approximately

7 200,000 a year over the last three, and I

8 think about 220,000 in this past year

9 alone -- how many of those young people

10 require what I would call significant

11 remedial work? I can't believe they're all

12 coming in on grade level with abilities.

13 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I mean,

14 let's face it, no matter where a student

15 comes from and no matter what their past

16 education has been, if they don't speak

17 English, they're at a disadvantage in

18 learning in our classrooms. And we need to

19 support them as they develop their skills in

20 English but also in their content area.

21 And so as we're doing this, I think

22 it's critical to make sure that the kinds of

23 regulations -- like Regulation 154 that

24 supports English language learners in many

1 areas relating to teacher certification,

2 relating to teacher supports in the

3 classroom, to connections to their families

4 and their communities -- making sure -- and

5 one of our requests is to make sure that we

6 have translations of our exams so that

7 students who have knowledge in their own

8 language can translate that to our systems.

9 All of those things are necessary.

10 And as you pointed out, a number of

11 districts that I've talked to in your area

12 have students that come in with interrupted

13 language and education. Those students need

14 to have intense support in classrooms, but

15 they also need -- besides learning English,

16 they need to keep -- they need to move

17 forward in content area subjects.

18 So the kinds of supports that are

19 necessary require us to support districts

20 across the state to do that.

21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Finally -- thank

22 you. And if I may jump quickly to a slightly

23 different topic, the Smart Schools Bond Act

24 funding.

1 It's my understanding there are

2 approximately 168 school districts that have

3 not received an answer to their proposal and

4 are awaiting their funding. I'm assuming,

5 from what I heard before when you opened your

6 statement, manpower -- or person power --

7 I've got to be careful -- people power is

8 your problem, or one of your problems. What

9 else is a problem there that's holding us

10 back?

11 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, let me point

12 out -- I just want to give you the numbers as

13 of now.

14 So we have 118 projects that are in

15 State Ed waiting for the reviews to be done

16 to move forward. We have 26 projects that

17 were moved out of State Ed that now are in a

18 position of being reviewed in other agencies.

19 As you well know, the Division of Budget as

20 well as SUNY have a role in a supporting

21 movement forward on the bonds -- on the

22 approval of the bond program.

23 We have 19 that are ready to be

24 approved by the committee when the next

1 meeting is held by that committee. We do not

2 schedule that, that's scheduled by the

3 Division of Budget. There was a period of

4 time where there were no meetings. They now

5 have started again, and we had a number of --

6 that were approved.

7 So the total number of approved

8 projects is 144, or 47 percent of the

9 projects that have been submitted to us

10 actually have been approved.

11 So I think it's -- you know, one of

12 the things that we want -- and I know that

13 you can understand this -- we have programs

14 that have been put in place with much thought

15 and support for education. One of them is

16 the Smart Schools Bond Act. There is no

17 other state that I know of that has been

18 thoughtful enough to put funding in place to

19 get schools across their state up to the

20 point where they need to be to deliver

21 instruction using technology to the point

22 that we have.

23 However, we have a very antiquated

24 facilities tracking system which requires an

1 enormous amount of opportunities for our

2 staff to track, as opposed to approve. So if

3 we were able to get funding to support an

4 updated system that spoke to each other, that

5 could give constant feedback on issues that

6 need to be cleared by the districts before we

7 can move forward on a project, it would be

8 very helpful not only for our construction

9 projects but for the Smart Schools Bond

10 projects.

11 So the work that we're doing is moving

12 them forward. And yes, as I gave you those

13 numbers, 47 percent of those that have been

14 submitted to us have been approved and have

15 moved forward; 38 percent are still with us

16 and we're moving them forward, but we have

17 work to do to improve that.

18 The same department that approves all

19 the construction projects going on in your

20 districts across the state is the same --

21 that's the same department that does the

22 Smart Schools Bond. So it's important for us

23 to get as efficient as we can. We have

24 decreased by half the time that it took for

1 us to get approvals for all of those

2 projects. But we still have too long of a

3 wait. And we want to get better at that, but

4 it requires your support.

5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Well, thank you

6 very much for your time. I know my time is

7 up. But I would just state that if my office

8 can be of any assistance in, for lack of a

9 better word, goosing the system to get things

10 out of other agencies that are being held up

11 for whatever reason, give us a call.

12 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

14 much.

15 We've been joined by Assemblywoman

16 Jo Anne Simon.

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. And

18 we've been joined by Senator Patrick

19 Gallivan.

20 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Next to question,

21 Mr. Lopez.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you,

23 Chairman.

24 Commissioner, welcome. Glad to see

1 you again. And actually we have -- our

2 Windham students are here. My wife is back,

3 and she's taking in your testimony as well.

4 So glad you're here.

5 Commissioner, a couple of things

6 quickly. In the Foundation Aid -- and I know

7 we had a conversation about fully funding it

8 and the issue of projecting, carrying on with

9 the multiyear. My honest observation is that

10 even within the formula, there are certain

11 key areas where schools are struggling. And

12 even fully funded, I'm concerned that not all

13 schools will be -- still will be created

14 equal, particularly high need, low wealth,

15 inner city and rural, in particular.

16 And I see the drivers, cost drivers.

17 You mentioned English language, second

18 language learners as a cost driver. I would

19 add to that poverty and special education

20 needs.

21 And my question for you is, do you

22 see, in the budget as proposed, the

23 opportunity for every student to have the

24 same access to a quality education? Open

1 question.

2 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So I think that

3 you've hit on something that's very

4 important. The Foundation Aid, it's

5 important to make sure that it's been updated

6 and that we're using data and numbers that

7 are current as it's calculated.

8 And also, I think that as we move

9 forward, we have to look at ways that we can

10 make sure that those districts and schools

11 are getting the resources that they need to

12 be able to support students in their

13 districts.

14 And you have identified, I think,

15 Member Lopez, a critical need to make sure

16 that the distribution of the funding is done

17 based on great need. And at this point in

18 time, I think that the budget has been -- the

19 proposal for the budget has supported, in

20 fact, doing that. We've updated the budget,

21 and the Executive office and their

22 departments have included some of those

23 suggested changes. I think there's more work

24 to be done.

1 And as you've pointed out, we have

2 many places in the state that need more

3 resources, and they are not receiving the

4 resources that they need. The Foundation Aid

5 phase-in will help those districts, but we

6 have to constantly be looking at ways to

7 improve the distribution of the funds.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: And again,

9 that's -- my concern is, particularly on

10 those three cost drivers, I'm not sure if

11 we're heading in that direction. And that's

12 why I'm looking for your guidance and

13 experience there.

14 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, there is no

15 question that the Regents have been focused

16 on equity and making sure that those

17 districts and schools within large districts

18 that have great need are receiving the

19 resources that they need. And so that is

20 something that I think, as you pointed out,

21 is very important for us to do. And we are

22 certainly not there yet.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: I'm going to shift

24 gears quickly. Again, we've had some

1 conversation about the loss of the local

2 diploma and about the issue of getting people

3 to work right from school. And the concern

4 many of us have remains with the issue of not

5 having a diploma if someone is not in the

6 Regents track, having certification. And the

7 real world employability -- my concern is how

8 do we work towards using the term "diploma"

9 as one aspect.

10 The other aspect is, even within the

11 Regents, is there an opportunity to

12 strengthen the career and technical aspect so

13 that someone can be job-ready and still get

14 through the Regents program if they do pursue

15 the Regents track?

16 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So in our

17 conversations I know you're aware of the

18 changes that the Regents have approved and

19 that we have made to allow students to have

20 access to opportunities towards receiving a

21 diploma.

22 And let me say that I think that we

23 have opened up the opportunities for students

24 with disabilities to do that. And the

1 suggestions in the proposal that's in front

2 of you that relate specifically to the

3 expansion of CTE programming is very

4 important. And so that will open up

5 opportunities for that 4+1 option that we

6 have.

7 And last year, as we discussed, the

8 Regents opened up the superintendent's

9 determination for students who had taken

10 coursework and were unable to pass a Regent

11 in that coursework -- specifically, a student

12 with disabilities. However, they had passed

13 the course and they had content knowledge

14 enough that they could sign off as a

15 superintendent that they determined that they

16 should receive a local diploma.

17 Statewide, we had 418 of the students

18 across the state that received a local

19 diploma under a superintendent's

20 determination.

21 So we believe that by looking

22 carefully at the options that we make

23 available to our students with disabilities

24 particularly, or students who want to make

1 sure -- and maybe they are not focused on the

2 Regents exams as such, but want the

3 opportunities to become certified in a

4 particular career -- those have also been

5 offered as the 4+1 option.

6 So right now, we have approved

7 assessments that can be used for students to

8 graduate with a Regents diploma and allowing

9 them to have a career and technical external

10 assessment that then puts them right in line

11 to be able to have a job as they leave high

12 school.

13 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you,

14 Commissioner.

15 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

16 Senator?

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you very

18 much.

19 And Commissioner, it's always great to

20 see you. And I too want to sincerely thank

21 you for everything that you do for the

22 students in New York. And it's great to see

23 you travel about the state. And I know

24 you've been to Western New York many, many

1 times. In fact, you hail from there. So

2 it's great.

3 COMMISSIONER ELIA: That's it.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So I did want to

5 follow up on a couple of things. And we've

6 had quite a discussion today on the ELL

7 students, and you mentioned Part 54 in the

8 regulations that were created by the State Ed

9 Department.

10 I just want to give you a little bit

11 of feedback that we're getting from some of

12 the districts. This was an unfunded mandate,

13 because it's very difficult, according to the

14 districts, to find teachers who are

15 dual-certified in foreign languages and in a

16 particular topic area. So in many cases,

17 what they're having to do is hire a foreign

18 language teacher and they're having to hire a

19 social studies teacher, a math teacher,

20 whatever it is, so they have two teachers in

21 one classroom. These additional

22 positions are not funded by the state.

23 You mentioned in your testimony that

24 you're asking for $100 million. My question

1 is, is that what the school districts are

2 losing right now because of this unfunded

3 mandate? So could you give us a little bit

4 more information on that?

5 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Sure. I think the

6 point that you've made is extremely

7 important. And a number of districts across

8 the state have faced the issue of getting

9 certified teachers into those classrooms to

10 support students who speak another language

11 but are in our classrooms.

12 One of the things that we've done --

13 and we know that this is an issue, and it

14 relates to this certification. So there are

15 places across the state in higher ed that

16 have opened up opportunities for teachers to

17 get certified as an add-on to their existing

18 certification.

19 So if you take the example that you

20 used, you have a social studies teacher and

21 they have not been certified, but they have

22 students that are ELL students in their

23 classroom. If that social studies teacher

24 goes through the training and does an add-on

1 of a certification, they become certified.

2 So these are some of the activities

3 that I think are absolutely critical for us

4 to expand and make available.

5 We're also looking at putting online

6 programming together so that a portion of

7 their training for that add-on can be not

8 only in a classroom, having to go somewhere,

9 but actually have the availability of it

10 online so that they can get that

11 certification.

12 The thing that I think is important to

13 realize is we've got to make the

14 certifications available for the great

15 teachers we have in New York. And what

16 happens is to think that we only can do a

17 certification for an ELL teacher in one way

18 is not reasonable. We have so many different

19 types of school districts -- large, small,

20 rural, urban, suburban -- we have to make

21 that programming available.

22 We actually have put programs together

23 that are allowing that certification, and we

24 are encouraging institutions of higher

1 learning and our teacher prep programs to put

2 in place English language learner training

3 programs so that their graduates can graduate

4 dually certified and/or that someone that's

5 coming back can get that certification early.

6 So it has to be in multiple modes and

7 not just one way to get a certification. But

8 it is an issue, and it clearly has been a

9 problem. Some of our BOCES have stepped up

10 and are putting in place training for them as

11 well.

12 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I think it shows a

13 need for the Blended Learning Program that we

14 tried to get off the ground. You're talking

15 about technology and using technology in the

16 classroom, and I'm not sure where that's at

17 either.

18 I wanted to talk about Foundation Aid

19 and the formula. Assemblyman Lopez brought

20 that up. But it was unfrozen in 2011-2012.

21 And the majority of the data factors used in

22 the calculations are updated annually, is

23 that correct?

24 COMMISSIONER ELIA: The majority of --

1 they are updated this year. We put in a

2 proposal to update them. And as we've

3 updated them, we see that that will change

4 the formula somewhat because it will shift on

5 the poverty indicator as one area. And also

6 the base amount of .65, which the Executive

7 Budget has taken out of the formula and

8 dropped to zero, we think that will help.

9 But it has not been, up to this point,

10 included in the runs that we have given to

11 districts in the past years that we have an

12 updated formula particularly for poverty. So

13 we have updated it for this year, and that's

14 included in the runs out of the Executive

15 Budget.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So you've updated

17 it with the ELLs and that sort of thing,

18 enrollment?

19 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, that data is

20 updated each year, so you know exactly how

21 many students are ELL in a district. And

22 there is a factor in the formula that allows

23 for ELL to be a calculation of that.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I wanted to talk to

1 you -- because you just touched on it --

2 about the direct certification data versus

3 the free and reduced-price lunches. And I

4 wanted to get your thoughts on that, because

5 there are two schools of thought -- no pun

6 intended. But for example, in my district --

7 very rural, as you know, a lot of poor

8 people -- and there are two factors that

9 sometimes get in the way of people signing up

10 for free and reduced-price lunches for their

11 children. One is maybe some apathy on the

12 part of the parents, they don't return the

13 information back to the school, which is a

14 big problem. Or they may be embarrassed

15 because they see it as a handout and they're

16 proud.

17 So, you know, there are questions out

18 there. The direct certification data, do you

19 think that would be a more accurate way of

20 assessing poverty, or -- I just want to hear

21 your thoughts on it, Commissioner.

22 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, actually

23 this used to be a major problem. And as some

24 of the shifts occurred in the federal

1 nutrition programs, we have districts that

2 because of prior years' poverty levels, they

3 were given -- they were allowed to directly

4 certify that they had students who were in

5 poverty, and therefore parents did not have

6 to return those forms. So in one way, that

7 took away a problem there. But when that

8 happened, then you couldn't use that data as

9 the percentage of a -- in a formula for

10 certification of funding.

11 The direct certification would be, I

12 believe, a better approach to take in the

13 fact that you would be able to access other

14 factors that include things like social

15 service programs that provide funding to

16 families who are in need. And you'd be able

17 to get that information and share that across

18 agencies. We believe that would be very

19 helpful.

20 But whatever you do, you'd have to use

21 a two or three year roll-in of that, which is

22 one of the things that we suggested.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So this is really

24 designed to get funding to the poorest

1 districts. And you would agree that the

2 Foundation Aid formula is designed to do

3 that, right?

4 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Yes, I think it

5 is. I think there are some factors that you

6 could look at that would require legislation.

7 But I think each one of the

8 characteristics of the Foundation Aid formula

9 should be reviewed and regularly updated.

10 And the most important thing is to look at

11 the equity points that have been brought up

12 by other people in questions already, the

13 fact that we know that there are some

14 districts that do not get the same amount of

15 money per child as other districts in

16 New York State.

17 That exists, and I think that's

18 something that constantly needs to be

19 reviewed to see what you could better do to

20 distribute funding across the state for

21 education.

22 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

23 So I want to talk about a topic that

24 I'd rather not have to talk about, but that

1 has to do with cost reports. And as you

2 know, in the 2012-2013 enacted budget there

3 was an amnesty program that was authorized

4 for school districts that had not yet filed

5 their cost reports for building projects that

6 were approved by SED prior to July 1, 2010.

7 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Right.

8 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Right. So under

9 the legislation districts had until

10 December 31, 2012, to file such final cost

11 reports, and then they were eligible for a

12 prorated amnesty program.

13 So prior to that time, the penalty for

14 a late-filed final cost report was a total

15 loss of state aid on a project, even if all

16 the aid had been previously paid. I just

17 recently learned from a school district that

18 SED will be taking back, in this school year,

19 almost $19.2 million in state aid from just

20 one school district based on a late-filed

21 final cost report for projects that were

22 approved prior to July 1, 2010. And most of

23 these projects date back to 1995, 1996, 1997.

24 And as you know, I have two separate

1 school districts right now -- I've had others

2 in the past in my Senate district -- that are

3 currently having state aid recovered in the

4 amount of approximately half a million

5 dollars a year, which these are little teeny

6 tiny school districts. Their entire budgets

7 are not that large. It's a huge hit. We've

8 worked to try to address that in the

9 State Budget. But this clawback seems to be

10 unfair.

11 We used to be able to just pass

12 legislation to grant some kind of amnesty for

13 these districts. Because I don't believe in

14 any of these cases this failure to file the

15 cost reporting is malicious. You know, it

16 wasn't intended.

17 So the question I have is, why didn't

18 the department make every effort to notify

19 these and other districts in 2012, when the

20 window was open? Because now these districts

21 apparently didn't realize that they didn't

22 have the cost report filed and now they're

23 getting hit by the department. And I want to

24 really stress that these clawbacks that

1 you're getting, these huge fines that you're

2 taking from the school districts, are not in

3 the financial plan. This is extra money

4 that's coming back. So the budget doesn't

5 contemplate that this money would be coming

6 back to the state.

7 So why didn't the districts get

8 notified by the department? That's my first

9 question.

10 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So let me -- first

11 of all, let me clear up that. That's a

12 misconception that you have. They were

13 notified. They were notified multiple times.

14 And so we have gone back on several districts

15 that have been part of this and identified

16 the fact that they had been notified. So

17 that is not necessarily the case.

18 But here's where I want to --

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Commissioner, I

20 will tell you, in Panama they saw it pop up

21 on a website right before -- it was at the

22 end of the year, past when the window was

23 closed. So I do not believe that they were

24 notified. They don't have any record of

1 being notified. So I don't know what

2 happened there, but I will tell you that my

3 districts -- and another one was

4 self-reporting. Fredonia, for example,

5 self-reporting. The new superintendent

6 uncovered something that happened 10 years

7 prior, reported it, and they got dinged for a

8 lot of money over that.

9 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Okay, so I have no

10 problem going back, Senator Young, and

11 verifying when your districts were

12 identified. And we'll get with you and get

13 the exact names, and they'll go back in the

14 file and get that for you.

15 All I can tell you is every time that

16 I have gone back and done it, every one of

17 the districts that said they hadn't received

18 notification had changes in staff, had people

19 that may have been in there that didn't --

20 hadn't had enough training to realize the

21 seriousness of some of these issues. And I

22 can tell you that I absolutely understand

23 some of the situations that have occurred,

24 and we in fact are supporting, with some of

1 our partner groups, having training for the

2 financial staff members in districts across

3 the state so they're fully aware of some of

4 the issues that can be raised here.

5 And you're right. I mean, these are

6 things that would be absolutely catastrophic

7 for districts, and that should not occur.

8 SED is not the one that is, in fact,

9 taking the money away. Let me point out that

10 these are legislative decisions that have

11 been made here. And we are following the

12 law, which is a problem in some cases for

13 some districts because of the situations that

14 may have occurred there. But it's not

15 something that we would not want your relief

16 over, because we'd be very happy to not to

17 ding these districts for what may not have

18 been anybody's problem.

19 So any of the districts that you're

20 talking about, we will give you the full

21 response that was made to those districts

22 over the period of time that we're

23 discussing.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

1 Commissioner.

2 And how many districts are left out

3 there? Because, you know, I reference the

4 new one, a $19.2 million hit on that

5 particular school district. They keep

6 surfacing. So do you have a handle on how

7 many districts are out there that are facing

8 these types of situations?

9 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I don't have

10 the full number, but I will get that for you

11 and make sure that it's available to you for

12 you to share with anyone else.

13 We have had meetings with other

14 legislators, and specifically talking about a

15 district in a similar situation. And it's

16 not something that in fact we are driven to

17 do. And if legislation in any way was

18 changed or revised where we had the

19 opportunity to address these issues in a more

20 reasonable way, we would certainly want to do

21 it.

22 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

23 Commissioner.

24 And finally, I referenced the Blended

1 Learning Program. The Legislature passed

2 that legislation --

3 COMMISSIONER ELIA: I'm sorry, which

4 program?

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: The Blended

6 Learning Program.

7 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Yes.

8 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: The Legislature

9 passed that bill, it was signed by the

10 Governor. We worked to get together a

11 program for the blended learning statewide

12 initiative. And could you give a briefing as

13 to where that's at?

14 COMMISSIONER ELIA: I have to tell

15 you, I'll have to check. I don't know.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay.

17 COMMISSIONER ELIA: You know that it

18 was one of the things that you and I talked

19 about last year, particularly that we come

20 forward with a way that we could do virtual

21 education across the state for some of the

22 districts, particularly the small rural

23 districts.

24 And so I can't tell you where it is

1 right now, but I will get it for you.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. Because

3 as you know, there was a task force, they put

4 together a plan, they submitted it to SED,

5 and I believe it was supposed to be

6 implemented by SED. So if you could let me

7 know, that would be great.

8 Thank you.

9 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

11 We've been joined by Assemblywoman

12 Shelley Mayer.

13 Next to question, Assemblyman

14 McLaughlin.

15 ASSEMBLYMAN McLAUGHLIN: Thank you,

16 Chairman.

17 Thanks, Commissioner, for being here.

18 A lot of my colleagues asked what I

19 was going to ask, so I'll be probably brief.

20 But a couple questions that I touched on with

21 you just a little bit earlier. I'm hearing

22 from some school districts about opt-outs

23 that continue on testing. And one school in

24 particular that I got word from, the

1 principal was telling his teachers that any

2 student that opts out is marked a "1." I'm

3 not sure whether that's true, or -- can you

4 speak to that for me, so we can get some

5 clarity for our school districts out there?

6 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So a student

7 doesn't receive a "1" for a test they didn't

8 take. As I mentioned to you earlier, there

9 may be confusion over the issues.

10 Some of the legislation and/or initial

11 rulemaking that came out of the ESSA, the

12 Every Student Succeeds Act, in Washington had

13 some rules that would be more detrimental to

14 schools that had high opt-out rates. That

15 may be what they're talking about. But

16 obviously that law has -- we haven't

17 submitted our New York State plan, and we

18 haven't done anything on that, and certainly

19 feel like that would be very problematic.

20 ASSEMBLYMAN McLAUGHLIN: Sure,

21 definitely. And so you're not getting any

22 word from any schools out there as far as

23 feedback of -- you know, we haven't submitted

24 the plan. When do we plan on submitting the

1 plan to Washington?

2 COMMISSIONER ELIA: The plan -- the

3 due date right now, and this obviously is

4 subject to change, the due date right now is

5 September.

6 And so we've been working on getting

7 feedback across the state, the Regents have

8 had several sessions with experts from around

9 the country, as well as the feedback that

10 we've received. So our plan is in the

11 development stage, but I can assure you that

12 that was not something that we were

13 interested in, and we're going to work very

14 hard to make sure that those things were not

15 included in New York's plan.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN McLAUGHLIN: Is there

17 clarity out there, you think, among all of

18 the administrators throughout the state?

19 Because maybe it seems there isn't, if this

20 is the feedback that I'm getting.

21 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I've

22 communicated with the superintendents. We've

23 also had communications out with principals

24 specifically relating to where we are in the

1 development of plans. So if in fact the

2 principal may have said something to a

3 teacher about what possibly was in the

4 outlines coming from Washington related to

5 the plan, and the teacher thought that's

6 exactly what is true, that's the only thing I

7 can identify. It could have happened, but

8 that is not part of where we're going.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN McLAUGHLIN: Great. Thank

10 you.

11 The Governor is proposing a round of

12 grants totaling $50 million. And typically

13 grants are used to spur competition, which is

14 not necessarily what we want to do when it

15 comes to funding education. So a lot of our

16 school districts are saying they're not even

17 applying for it because they don't think that

18 they would qualify for that grant anyway.

19 So I just want to get your feedback on

20 that, whether you agree with that proposal by

21 the Governor or not.

22 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, his

23 $50 million grants include things like

24 after-school programs, Early College High

1 Schools, expanding pre-K -- that was the

2 $5 million that I pointed out before -- AP

3 fees for low-income students, Computer

4 Science Master Teacher awards, the Empire

5 State Excellence in Teaching awards, and the

6 Prevent Cyberbullying Initiative.

7 So one of the things that I -- and

8 I've mentioned this before when I've talked

9 to several of you, I think it's very

10 problematic when we have competitive grants

11 that pit students against students when you

12 have students in multiple places across the

13 state that need to have supports.

14 In some of these situations -- and let

15 me give you an example with the expanded

16 pre-K program. For $5 million going out for

17 another opportunity for someone to apply for

18 funding for what would be a relatively small

19 amount of money, $5 million, and having

20 resources in districts -- and you talk about

21 small districts or you talk about urban

22 districts, they may not have the same level

23 of grant writer that others do, so

24 competitive grants can be problematic.

1 I would say if you're going to have

2 competitive grants, they should be in the

3 fewest areas possible. But we would

4 certainly hope that as we're working with

5 these that we could put in place those things

6 that would allow districts to know ahead of

7 time whether they fit the criteria or not.

8 But let me give you an example. We

9 had, for the after-school 21st Century grant

10 programs, we had over 500 applicants. We're

11 not going to be able to give anywhere near

12 500 applications -- and give them funding.

13 So people are spending their time writing

14 those grants. It's important for the RFP to

15 be very clear and for people to make a

16 decision about whether that is something that

17 they really feel like they've got an

18 opportunity to get.

19 Clearly the AP fees for low-income

20 students is something, by the percentage of

21 students that they'd have in their district,

22 they may be able to know that that would be a

23 good thing for them to write for.

24 ASSEMBLYMAN McLAUGHLIN: Thank you,

1 Commissioner.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

4 Our next speaker is Senator Kaminsky.

5 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Good morning,

6 Commissioner.

7 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Good morning.

8 SENATOR KAMINSKY: I just want to

9 acknowledge and thank the presence of

10 Chancellor Rosa. She came out to my district

11 last week for a forum on graduation and

12 diplomas that we heard of a minute ago. Over

13 350 parents were there, and it was a really

14 great dialogue, and we've discussed this.

15 But there was still -- there was a great

16 appreciation for the steps you have taken

17 last spring. You know, when you talk about

18 400-plus lives being improved by your

19 measures, that's great.

20 I just want to let you know people are

21 now hoping for a next step or a follow-up

22 step this year as a way to recognize the

23 potential of all students, and it was just a

24 really great moment to have our state

1 officials there listening to parents. And I

2 think everyone appreciated it and came out of

3 it feeling hopeful. And we hope that hope

4 will be realized this year with some further

5 steps you could take that will get students

6 to the next level.

7 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

8 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Sure.

9 I just want to talk to you about a

10 waiver that we in the state have been asking

11 from Washington for students with special

12 needs from taking some of the state testing

13 that has obviously caused a lot of distress

14 for some of those students.

15 You know, I hear from special ed

16 teachers and from parents of students with

17 special needs that undergoing such testing is

18 really sometimes tantamount to child abuse,

19 that knowing that what the results will be

20 and making them go through it anyway is just

21 a very tough thing. And I talk to teachers

22 who look at me and say, "I look at the

23 students and say 'I'm sorry, there's nothing

24 I can do for you,' and watch them struggle

1 through that."

2 I'm just wondering where we are in

3 that process with the new administration and

4 whether we're going to be pushing for a

5 waiver for such students going forward.

6 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, so let me

7 point out that the ESSA, the new law that has

8 been passed, at this point in time it looks

9 as though any of the particular directives,

10 the guidance that came out with that, is not

11 moving forward. So we have, specifically,

12 the law in place -- the law does not give

13 exceptions to students with disabilities, and

14 I think that there clearly are some things

15 that we can look at.

16 We are very committed to make sure

17 that we can provide an appropriate assessment

18 for students no matter who they are and what

19 groups that they're included in. And

20 certainly our students with disabilities is a

21 big part of that.

22 One of the things that I think will,

23 as we move forward, help us substantially,

24 given the fact that there is no exclusion for

1 them in the law at this point in time, is the

2 opportunity with computer-based assessments

3 where, as the student takes the test after a

4 number of questions that they're not at the

5 instructional level of that particular grade

6 level, the computer automatically drops it to

7 a level where they would be able to answer

8 some of the questions. So the frustration

9 they feel in not having the ability to answer

10 any of the questions may then be able to be

11 taken away as they're using computers to do

12 that.

13 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Are we close to

14 doing that?

15 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, we have

16 started the investment in having that. As a

17 matter of fact, there are districts across

18 the state right now that are doing

19 computer-based assessments. They did it last

20 year in the field testing, and some this year

21 are actually doing it in the operational

22 testing. We're working very hard and

23 encouraging districts to get themselves ready

24 for that. That really will open up an

1 enormous number of opportunities as we're

2 doing testing with different groups of

3 students.

4 So let me point out to you, as I have

5 a number of times, the importance that I

6 myself think that providing opportunities for

7 our students who are students with an IEP to

8 be in traditional classrooms, to have access

9 to the kinds of coursework that would allow

10 them to be successful. As they move forward,

11 the importance of a diploma is certainly

12 underscored. We've worked to make sure that

13 those students have options. And as you and

14 I had conversations, and I know it came up at

15 your meeting last week, the opportunities

16 have been opened up.

17 And I myself was at a meeting at

18 Staten Island with a student who was given --

19 who was able to take the Regents exam, passed

20 the algebra after a few tests. However,

21 ultimately she got the superintendent's

22 determination in hand, a local diploma, and

23 she's now going on to art school.

24 So I think we have opened it up, we

1 are looking for opportunities to obviously

2 have a meaningful approach to giving diplomas

3 in the State of New York, and making sure

4 that when that diploma is given that it means

5 something for all students, and making sure

6 that those agencies that might hire our

7 students are aware of the work that they've

8 done that contributes to the diploma they

9 have in hand.

10 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Thanks.

11 Let me ask one final thing while we're

12 talking about ESSA. I also believe that ESSA

13 is the foundation for sort of a sword that

14 hangs over districts' heads about their

15 opt-out rates. And I have some districts

16 that have 60 percent opt-out rates, and ESSA

17 is used for the "Well, then your school could

18 have its federal funding cut unless a certain

19 percentage of students are there."

20 Is that also a waiver that we're

21 continuing to seek from Washington?

22 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, we never saw

23 the waiver for those students who had opted

24 out. I can tell you now that still in the

1 law -- not in regulation, but in the law --

2 there are requirements for participation

3 rates.

4 I've also mentioned to you last year

5 when I was here, and to many of you

6 personally at various meetings that I've had

7 with you and your constituents, I don't

8 support in any way, nor do the Regents,

9 punishing children for the determination of

10 whether or not we're going to have an opt-out

11 situation or not.

12 But the law does require participation

13 rate. It's in the law. And I think we have

14 to work with our state ultimately so that we

15 all can have students and parents and

16 teachers understand the importance of giving

17 feedback on how well their students are

18 doing. It is a part of the transparency that

19 we have, and accountability, and I think as

20 we kind of move back and reset where we are

21 in New York with teachers who are integrally

22 involved in the development of the

23 assessments, I think you will have a

24 different approach to the assessments in

1 New York.

2 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Well, thank you,

3 and I hope so. And Senator Latimer and I

4 are -- I've joined him in writing a letter to

5 the administration in Washington asking them

6 that they change that requirement. I think

7 if, well, he's all about getting government

8 out of our lives, I think this would be a

9 great place to do it.

10 You know, we have parents that really

11 make very difficult choices about opting

12 their kids out. They believe it's the best

13 for them.

14 I hope we all have buy-ins so that

15 will change and everyone will agree with what

16 we have going forward, and I look forward to

17 working with you on creating that. But I

18 think this threat scares them. And I'm glad

19 to hear that you agree with it, but I do

20 understand the law in front of us. So thank

21 you.

22 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

24 much.

1 Assemblywoman Jaffee.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Good morning.

3 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Good morning.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Thank you,

5 Commissioner, for your ongoing commitment,

6 the strength of your work on behalf of our

7 youth and, you know, the education system.

8 I wanted to also just begin by

9 thanking you for your focus on East Ramapo

10 and working with the community to certainly

11 provide the quality education that the

12 students deserve in East Ramapo, in a very

13 high-need district in particular. So I want

14 to thank you and the monitors for providing

15 that kind of enlightenment and support in the

16 district.

17 I wanted to also ask a question

18 regarding the Community Schools, and what

19 progress is being made with these -- in these

20 areas, in the Community Schools, in

21 implementing the needs of the community and

22 the model that has been created in each of

23 these schools.

24 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So last year in

1 the budget there was $100 million that was

2 included in Foundation Aid that went to all

3 districts across the state related to

4 Community Schools. And we put out guidance

5 on that funding, and we know that districts

6 that have previously had grants or had

7 instituted Community Schools expanded those

8 options in their communities.

9 In my experience being across the

10 state, I have seen a number of the Community

11 Schools' expansions and the introductions of

12 the concept of Community Schools, and I can

13 tell you I think that it's making a

14 difference, particularly for our high-needs

15 students. But we have a ways to go.

16 As you're aware, under the grant that

17 was provided by the Legislature and signed

18 off by the Governor, we established an Office

19 of Community and Parent Involvement. That

20 office is almost staffed, not quite, but we

21 are expanding our work out into the -- across

22 the state to support districts in making sure

23 that they're targeting not only the students

24 that have the greatest need, but their

1 families, and connecting them.

2 There is nothing besides the teacher,

3 the support of family and an involvement of

4 the family, and the work that's being done at

5 schools is absolutely critical. And with so

6 many of our families in need, the Community

7 School provides great opportunities for them.

8 And as a strategy to support improvement and

9 success for students, we feel it's a really

10 great one, and we've been expanding our

11 opportunities there across the state.

12 So the funding has been there for

13 that. We have, for our struggling and

14 persistently struggling schools, an amount of

15 money that was put aside, and we have yet to

16 get that out to those schools. But we are in

17 the process of doing that as well.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Well, thank

19 you. I think -- I truly believe it is

20 essential. As a former educator of special

21 education in East Ramapo, I felt many years

22 ago that we should have put a Community

23 School into East Ramapo, and I know that in

24 various areas they've been seeing quite a bit

1 of success, especially in engaging parents.

2 That is so essential.

3 And we have to continue to move

4 forward with that initiative in many areas,

5 and so I thank you for your really focusing

6 on that and assuring that we are moving

7 forward on that.

8 With special education also, the

9 options that you noted in terms of tests -- I

10 sat for hours with these young junior high

11 school students who sat for several hours to

12 take a test and -- with special needs. And

13 while they were intellectually capable, some

14 of them had dyslexia, some of them really had

15 fallen back in education because of their

16 learning disabilities, and they weren't being

17 provided with the support -- they struggled

18 so, hour after hour, trying to take these

19 tests.

20 If there are ways to be able to

21 provide options for them, it is so -- I know

22 Massachusetts does some of that as well,

23 provides a variety of options for students

24 with learning special needs, and I believe

1 that it's a way to support them, a way for

2 them to continue feeling success, which then

3 gives them even more self-confidence and an

4 ability to move forward. So it is something

5 that I think we need to focus on, as you

6 continue to focus on it, and I thank you for

7 mentioning that.

8 Is there anything else that is being

9 done to support them?

10 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, as you

11 noticed, the severely disabled students in

12 the new law, the reflection on assessments

13 for those students, the only group that is

14 excluded from having to take the regular

15 assessment is those students that right now

16 the law reflects a 1 percent cap on the

17 number of students. And we believe that in

18 fact in New York we have to look at that

19 carefully, because we're just not sure that

20 the federal government's singling out one

21 single percentage for every state across the

22 country is a reasonable approach. So we're

23 looking at that carefully as well.

24 We've had a number of teachers give us

1 feedback on their students with severe

2 disabilities who are, based on the

3 requirements in the federal law, still going

4 to be required to take the assessments.

5 So those are all issues that we have

6 to face.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: Yes. It's a

8 major issue.

9 I had a student who I actually was

10 dealing with privately because his mom had

11 reached out to me, and he was quite bright

12 but was -- really had difficulty with

13 dyslexia, and it included the reading. He --

14 we worked together for many years in terms of

15 assisting him. Even in my classroom, I got

16 the Lighthouse for the Blind to tape their

17 textbooks so that they could actually have

18 the opportunity to listen to some of their

19 textbooks rather than struggle when they can

20 do both at the same time, actually. And he

21 actually became a physician.

22 But we need to continue to provide

23 that kind of support for children with

24 learning disabilities so that they can

1 continue to move forward, have the confidence

2 and the strength to move forward in terms of

3 their academics.

4 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Absolutely.

5 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN JAFFEE: And I just -- I

7 want to -- oh, my time is up. Okay. I'll

8 continue at another time.

9 But thank you very much for your focus

10 and really intense engagement in our schools.

11 Thank you.

12 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

14 Just to give the members a sense of

15 the order, next is George Latimer, Senator

16 Latimer, who is ranking member on Education.

17 Following him will be Senator Ranzenhofer,

18 and after that Senator Krueger.

19 SENATOR LATIMER: Thank you, Senator.

20 And good morning, Commissioner. Thank

21 you for being here.

22 Since time is limited and there's many

23 other speakers, I'll just ask one area of

24 questions, and that relates to the new

1 federal administration. The fiscal year in

2 the federal government ends -- fiscal year

3 2017 ends on September 30th, meaning that the

4 new federal fiscal year will begin

5 October 1st, which is halfway through our

6 state fiscal year. And I'm wondering if you

7 can describe, in general terms, the level of

8 federal support that we receive in New York

9 from the federal government, and on the

10 assumption that we're going to see some major

11 changes in the way the federal government

12 intends to fund education, both the level and

13 the policies of education, if you had an

14 opportunity with your team to look at how

15 New York might respond to those changes if

16 they come as expected.

17 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So you're

18 absolutely right, Senator. We are watching

19 closely some of the things that we think may

20 be affecting decisions that are made

21 regarding education.

22 As you are well aware, I'm sure, there

23 were some statements made during the -- or

24 prior to the actual election that would

1 indicate that some funding may be taken off

2 of education programs nationally, which would

3 certainly affect New York State. If in fact,

4 for instance, the $20 billion amount of money

5 was taken off the top to distribute for

6 specific agendas, then that -- and it

7 certainly would affect New York in the fact

8 that we receive billions of dollars to

9 support our programming in many areas within

10 the state, and that funding is distributed to

11 school districts, so it would ultimately

12 affect the school districts.

13 At this point in time we don't know

14 where any of those things are going to go.

15 There's been no indication other than the

16 action that was taken in the house a week and

17 a half ago to no longer have the regulations

18 that have come out of the Obama

19 administration's Department of Education be

20 part of what comes out in directives on the

21 new ESSA. That has not been taken up in the

22 Senate yet, so it may be that those rules in

23 fact are put in place, we're not sure.

24 However, it would seem that they're

1 probably going to get that passed through the

2 Senate as well. And so that would mean that

3 the law that was passed -- specifically the

4 law only, not any of the regulations relating

5 to it -- would move forward. And remember,

6 that was a bipartisan law passed to take over

7 from No Child Left Behind.

8 So in that law, it specifically talks

9 about the programs that we -- that I think

10 you're alluding to -- are Title I programs,

11 or Title III and Title IV. Those programs

12 are still in place, and unless a change would

13 be made in how they would be funded, then it

14 wouldn't affect New York unless a

15 determination was made to take funding off

16 the top for another agenda. And at that

17 point it would affect us, and it would be

18 relative to the percentage that we would

19 receive, that we receive now, from the

20 federal dollars spent in education.

21 And it is a large budget, but it's

22 also a very large budget in New York, so a

23 percentage off the top would affect us.

24 SENATOR LATIMER: I would just -- just

1 in closing ask the obvious, which is as soon

2 as the department has any hard indication of

3 what those changes may be -- and it may come

4 when the Legislature, our Legislature, is out

5 of session. But I'm sure that the leaders of

6 our respective houses and those of us who

7 track these issues would like to know as much

8 as we can about the direct impact as it

9 affects the state. Obviously it will affect

10 our school districts in particular, because

11 there are policy elements which the Board of

12 Regents will want to analyze, but also our

13 Legislature will want to analyze.

14 And since, again, we do go out of

15 session at the end of June, some of these

16 things may play our in the summertime, in

17 which case we I think would all want to know

18 in real time what those impacts would be.

19 And I appreciate your answer, and

20 hopefully we'll have a chance to dialogue

21 further.

22 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Absolutely. And I

23 would say I would hope that as any changes

24 are rolling out, that we become partners in

1 addressing what is best for New York State.

2 SENATOR LATIMER: Thank you.

3 Thank you, Madam Senator.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you, Senator.

5 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

6 Next, we've been joined by Assemblyman

7 Matthew Titone.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: And Assemblyman

9 Murray.

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: And next, Mr. Ra.

11 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you, Chairman

12 Farrell.

13 Good morning, Commissioner.

14 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Good morning.

15 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Good to see you.

16 Just a couple of questions. One, just

17 going back to Foundation Aid. And just like

18 I guess we saw the last few years when we

19 were talking about the GEA, that there were,

20 you know, districts that were kind of pretty

21 much back to zero on that, and there were

22 districts that were -- you know, still had

23 huge sums that were outstanding, so to speak,

24 when you looked at that.

1 And it's the same way with Foundation

2 Aid. Obviously we have ones that are up

3 close or at their full phase-in and ones that

4 are well below. So I know that the Governor

5 has his proposal, which there's been

6 opposition to in the Legislature. How would

7 you guys in your proposal prioritize doing

8 that phase-in? I noticed like a handful of

9 districts that are even below 50 percent

10 still at this point. So how would we

11 prioritize doing that phase-in for districts?

12 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So the Regents'

13 proposal calls for one-third each year for

14 the next three years, for a three-year

15 proposal. Now, based on the calculations, of

16 course, that is -- it's not frozen at the

17 amount that we have calculated right now for

18 what would be the Foundation Aid. So every

19 year it would change, but at this point in

20 time our Regents' proposal of $1.4 billion

21 reflects one-third of the current amount

22 that's owed to districts.

23 If that were done, then the formula

24 would roll out as to each -- the amount that

1 each district would receive. And so that

2 calculation is available, and certainly we

3 could let you know for any of the specific

4 districts for you -- we could let you know

5 exactly what that would be.

6 But the bottom line is, as we phase

7 out the Foundation Aid, then ultimately you

8 would have that played out depending on the

9 number of years that was included in law.

10 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Yeah. Because

11 obviously, like any formula, you're always

12 going to have maybe kind of outliers or

13 districts that may reflect, you know, a

14 different reality than necessarily what the

15 numbers may show.

16 So maybe I'll follow up with your

17 staff just to see how that would run through

18 for some of the districts that I represent.

19 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Sure.

20 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: The other thing I

21 wanted to bring up -- and I'm very supportive

22 of your request for the Excess Teacher

23 Turnover Prevention program, and that

24 funding. I think it's very important in

1 particular to Special Act schools and 853s.

2 And I was just wondering what your thoughts

3 are (a) whether the Department would be

4 supportive of trying to really come up

5 with -- you know, we'd put a little more

6 money in, obviously I know the rates get set

7 outside of the budget, but so what, you

8 know -- would the Department be supportive of

9 looking at some way of legislatively or

10 otherwise to really make that more

11 predictable for those institutions? And how

12 could the Legislature, or at least those that

13 are interested in doing so, work with you to

14 help make something like that a reality and

15 push for that?

16 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So yes, I have

17 visited a number of the Special Act schools,

18 and these are schools that I think are

19 absolutely critical for us to support. The

20 idea of the Excessive Teacher Turnover

21 Prevention, we've asked for funding to expand

22 that opportunity for those teachers because

23 in reality they don't have the same access to

24 the increasing funds. And they have not kept

1 up with that period of time where they didn't

2 have any increases at all, and what we've

3 done since then has not brought them back to

4 whole.

5 And I think that's an extremely

6 important area for us to address, both the

7 853 and the Special Act schools. So to make

8 sure that those teachers that are there don't

9 get -- aren't in a position to leave those

10 programs that so desperately need the

11 certified teachers and go somewhere else, we

12 think it's a really important opportunity.

13 The special education providers for those

14 programs can serve either our early childhood

15 programming or our other programs that are

16 serving students that have special needs that

17 actually are attending those schools as

18 opposed to their district schools.

19 One of the things that we've requested

20 is the provider data system that will allow

21 us to be able to know exactly what providers

22 are providing what services in each area

23 geographically, so that as funding issues

24 come up, we can look at that and from that

1 perspective determine what's the best

2 approach for us to take in supporting those

3 districts.

4 So I would suggest to you that

5 Special Act schools are very important. The

6 board has asked us to look at how we can

7 support the tuition and school-age and

8 preschool education for these children to

9 have a more inclusive approach so that

10 students, special needs students, are

11 included in our population of pre-K

12 programming and they receive supports to do

13 that inclusion work, because many times that

14 will help children to quickly move off of

15 some of the difficulties they may have by

16 being with their chronological peers in those

17 programs.

18 So there's a number of areas that I

19 think, particularly with Special Acts and

20 with the pre-K program, that would be

21 improved by providing the opportunity for us

22 to have the data at our fingertips. Right

23 now there are multiple places where

24 information is kept, and they are not

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1 together, and I think that's going to really

2 give us more factual information to make

3 determinations.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Okay. Thank you.

5 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

6 Senator?

7 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Our next speaker is

8 Senator Krueger.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Good morning. I

10 think it's still morning.

11 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Mm, yes.

12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yup. Still morning.

13 I also want to thank you for all the

14 hard work and dedication of your department.

15 Such an enormous assignment to get one's arms

16 around, all education for the State of

17 New York. Plus.

18 So, from your testimony today, you

19 referenced both the Governor's proposal to

20 merge the UPK funding stream --

21 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Yes.

22 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- and, I think,

23 your explanation of all the different

24 categories of UPK and the importance, I

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1 think -- you agree with him on merging them.

2 But you also said you want to include the

3 half-day UPK --

4 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Yes.

5 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- in the category.

6 So since we're very focused on making sure

7 UPK guarantees the kind of quality

8 educational childhood development

9 curriculum --

10 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Right.

11 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- like we know from

12 research makes a big difference, how do we

13 make sure that we're building in the same

14 standards in a half-day model if we're going

15 to support half-day as well as full-day?

16 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Okay, so I think

17 my comments specifically on the half-day and

18 taking funding away from districts -- so let

19 me give you an example. There are some

20 districts where they provide the full-day

21 program, but there are parents that don't

22 want their child in a full-day program, so

23 they provide a half-day program.

24 I would suggest to you that the

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1 half-day program, if it's focused on the key

2 areas of the instruction or of instruction

3 and activity for early childhood, is as

4 good -- it's better than not having any

5 program, if you will.

6 So if a parent is deciding that they

7 want to have a half-day program and the

8 district wants to provide that, or if

9 midstream a child leaves the program and they

10 transfer that position that was a full-day

11 into a half-day, in the proposal it calls for

12 taking the funding away from districts. I

13 think that's a mistake. I think that there

14 are opportunities in most of the programs --

15 we've talked with providers, there are

16 waiting lists for children to get in,

17 children can be started in those programs at

18 different times in the year. And I think

19 it's a benefit to school districts to have

20 the flexibility to do that and not lose the

21 money if that child leaves for whatever

22 reason.

23 So half-day programs can be helpful.

24 I would suggest to you that a full-day

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1 program is the better approach, but I think

2 that's one of those things that in various

3 communities you have numbers of parents who

4 either decide or not to have their child in a

5 full-day.

6 SENATOR KRUEGER: At some private

7 education -- they have a model of blended 4-

8 and 5-year-olds together --

9 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Mm-hmm.

10 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- so it would be,

11 by our definition, UPK and K. Is that a

12 model that might help some school districts

13 with the limitations of only X number of

14 students, only Y number of classrooms and

15 teachers? Have you looked into that?

16 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Sure. But I think

17 one of the issues really becomes if you

18 have -- for the most part, districts have

19 waiting lists for kids to go into their pre-K

20 program. If you did have a kindergarten --

21 as opposed to pre-K -- that had spaces,

22 that's a possibility, certainly. But we

23 haven't seen that happening a lot. Most of

24 the kindergarten programs are pretty full and

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1 people -- after school begins, they're ending

2 up opening additional programs. So what --

3 we aren't really seeing if they could be

4 blended well.

5 I think to get back to your point

6 about the quality, the QUALITYstars program

7 is a way that we, in our department, are

8 looking to make sure that children have the

9 ability and are getting the kinds of

10 programming that's really supportive of

11 expanding their vocabulary, et cetera. And

12 with a combination of both private and public

13 opportunities, I think it's very important

14 for us to make sure that that quality is

15 there in all of the cases.

16 One of the issues that you brought

17 up -- and this is on page 5 in your deck.

18 But if you look at the issues relating to

19 different grades or different age levels,

20 when you provide a 3-year-old with a program

21 and then the 4-year-old program gets cut or

22 there's a reason that the child can't get in,

23 you'll end up having a 3-year-old go for a

24 program, then have a void in that 4-year age,

105

1 and then they go into the kindergarten at 5.

2 So it really can create an issue.

3 Our focus needs to be on one age

4 group, get that done, and then where

5 necessary, and where there's support, put a

6 3-year-old to roll into a 4-year-old program.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

8 You talk about the project-based

9 alternative pathways to high school degrees

10 that you put into -- I guess that rolled out

11 last year -- this year -- last current year.

12 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So I think -- are

13 you talking about the CDOS program?

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: All right, we're

15 back to -- the model that you described that

16 can be used by children with disabilities --

17 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Right.

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- and English

19 language learners to -- sorry, I thought you

20 described it and I wrote it down as

21 project-based alternative pathways.

22 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Right.

23 Okay, so the program that we have

24 known as the CDOS program -- it is a program

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1 that focuses on the skills level that a

2 student would need to be successful in the

3 workplace. It actually has as an exit

4 criteria, either the assessment of pretty

5 much well-accepted-across-the-board CTE

6 assessments that are standardized across the

7 country so that a student has those skills

8 that they then can take to the workplace.

9 One of the things that we've done that

10 was initially put in place two or three years

11 ago by the Regents -- and at the time when it

12 first was instituted, it does take time for

13 them, the school districts, to move to that

14 model. We're not sure that we have had as

15 many districts move to the model as perhaps

16 need to.

17 And so providing the opportunities for

18 career and technical programming is

19 important, and also to know whether or not

20 the students themselves actually end up with

21 a credential that is helping them to get into

22 some workforce. We contacted the Civil

23 Service and we have, from them, the assurance

24 that in fact that CDOS can allow -- or will

107

1 allow students to go into the beginning

2 levels of civil service.

3 And we also contacted the military,

4 because a number of our parents said that

5 that wasn't providing their students with

6 what they needed there. And there is a

7 program that does allow for students who have

8 not -- don't have a regular diploma but have

9 a certification, to be able to access some

10 positions in the military. It's not as open

11 as it would be if they had a diploma, but it

12 is providing some opportunities. So we're

13 looking at that as an option.

14 But I do think that some of the other

15 work that has been done specifically for

16 those students who take Regents-level

17 coursework but are unable to pass the Regents

18 exams, those 418 students that their

19 superintendent determined that they had done

20 the coursework, they had passed the course,

21 and they were unable to pass the Regents

22 exam, they received a local diploma.

23 So that is, I think, an opening up to

24 see how well we can move forward and provide

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1 for them.

2 SENATOR KRUEGER: And that's where I

3 really wanted to go with the question, that

4 there is X number of students who just don't

5 test well and are never going to test well,

6 even though they did the work and are

7 accomplishing -- and you heard a number of my

8 colleagues point to examples of that. And I

9 was curious whether the department was going

10 further down the road of exploring

11 alternative definitions of success for being

12 awarded an actual high school degree.

13 I know that I'm a big fan of portfolio

14 high school programs. I have actually four

15 of those high schools in my district that are

16 phenomenal, and actually have I think over a

17 90 percent -- over 95 percent graduate on

18 time, and over 90 percent go to college. But

19 these were kids who, based on the 8th-grade

20 tests, were not going to be successful in

21 high school at all, and many of them struggle

22 to pass even the lesser number of Regents.

23 And I wonder whether SED is exploring

24 expanding on those kinds of models so that we

109

1 are not putting children through our school

2 system, creating an enormous amount of

3 frustration and panic, when an awful lot of

4 them actually are very talented and educated

5 and accomplished, but they just don't fit in

6 the box of Regents Exams.

7 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I think

8 it's -- I think the opportunities to look at

9 different approaches to graduation are

10 important. And let me say, I think taking

11 the concept of the portfolio and using that

12 as a basis for some pilots is something we

13 are very interested in doing.

14 That of course takes funding to be

15 able to do that. If we're going to do a

16 tracking of how well students are doing in

17 those programs, we do have the history -- as

18 you pointed out, you have some of those

19 programs in your area of New York. And I

20 think it's important for us to have that data

21 available so we can look at it and also

22 across the state to try to provide as many

23 opportunities for students.

24 For instance, in the science

110

1 assessment that we have, can we look at other

2 ways to assess students in science rather

3 than the straight assessment that's given --

4 every student takes it on the same day

5 everywhere -- but rather, embedded in the

6 instruction in their programs, opportunities

7 for them to do and prove that they are able

8 to do the science that's necessary.

9 So opportunities I think are extremely

10 important. One of the ones that we have had

11 some success or we want to continue to track

12 that is the P-TECH program. If you look at

13 the students that are accepted into the

14 P-TECH program, that actually ends up being

15 students who, as you pointed out, might not

16 necessarily be the ones that people would say

17 automatically they're going to do great. And

18 we have some great results that actually gets

19 them a two-year associate's degree and a

20 certification in one of the areas that

21 they're training for.

22 And as we -- each year we'll get more

23 data on that particular cohort, since it's a

24 long-drawn cohort. But we're seeing that

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1 they're passing the Regents exams because

2 much of the content from the Regents exams is

3 actually embedded into their integrated

4 curriculums. So I think there's lots of

5 opportunities for us to look at programs that

6 can provide ways for students to be

7 successful.

8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

9 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

10 Assemblywoman Walsh.

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH: Good morning.

12 Thank you very much for being here.

13 I just want to follow up on that

14 conversation that was started. It's been

15 very interesting to me to hear about some of

16 the alternatives for those students for whom

17 the Regents diploma is not really an option

18 for them. I have one of those children. I

19 have a 24-year-old who was able to, through a

20 combination of Regents and RCTs, was able to

21 walk across the stage with his local diploma.

22 Now that the local diploma -- it

23 sounds like it's not available except for

24 these 418 that you mentioned are done through

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1 the superintendent --

2 COMMISSIONER ELIA: No, there's more

3 students than 418 that have received the

4 local diploma.

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH: Okay. And so --

6 can you explain to me how that -- under what

7 circumstances that's done?

8 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Sure. We provided

9 safety nets for students so that if they took

10 the Regents exam but they didn't pass it with

11 a 65, they actually passed it with a 55 or

12 higher, they could request an appeal off of

13 that, and then they would be able to graduate

14 with a local diploma. They could do that for

15 two of their exams.

16 We also provided an appeals process

17 for students to look at their scores that are

18 up to three points below the 55 in two

19 Regents exams in order to graduate with a

20 local diploma. We have a compensatory

21 safety-net option with students with

22 disabilities who have earned a score between

23 45 and 54 on one or more of the Regents exams

24 other than math and English to graduate with

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1 a local diploma.

2 And then that superintendent's

3 determination, we also opened up the CDOS

4 certification now -- it's not a diploma, but

5 then with that certification we did check

6 with Civil Service and the services, and

7 there are options for them with that CDOS.

8 But I think that it's important for us

9 to look at what kinds of opportunities can we

10 present for those students. Number one, when

11 they're in their coursework starting in

12 elementary school, to make sure that they

13 have access to the content with supports that

14 will help them to be successful.

15 More and more students -- and we had

16 an increase in our graduation rate this year

17 for students with disabilities, up

18 3 percentage points. Which was an increase

19 that we think is moving in the right

20 direction, but we still have a long ways to

21 go. And across the state I think we have to

22 start looking at those options as well.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH: And I'm glad you

24 brought that up, because I was going to ask

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1 you about the graduation rate.

2 So my question was, how many students

3 have IEPs in our state?

4 COMMISSIONER ELIA: It's

5 approximately -- we'll get the exact number

6 for you. But it's approximately 15 percent

7 of our population have IEPs, and they could

8 be anywhere on a range.

9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH: Oh, understood.

10 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Right.

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH: But out of that,

12 say, 15 percent, how many have been able,

13 have been successful in achieving a Regents

14 diploma?

15 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So I think the

16 graduation rates show that we went up to a

17 57 percent graduation rate. We'll get that

18 specific number for you. But that was an

19 increase from where we were, and so we're

20 moving in the right direction. But it's

21 certainly not enough.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH: And without a

23 Regents diploma, if they -- you mentioned

24 CDOS, which is new to me, because I've

115

1 just -- I have a child that's that much

2 older. But without a local diploma option,

3 or a Regents diploma, are those students who

4 are not able to achieve either one of those

5 able to continue their education, either at

6 community college or in some other setting?

7 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So they can stay

8 with the school districts up through

9 age 21 --

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH: Right.

11 COMMISSIONER ELIA: -- and then beyond

12 that, if they go out earlier or not, they can

13 access a GED and/or a TASC certificate at a

14 community college. Once they get that, they

15 can matriculate at the community college.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH: Okay. Thank

17 you.

18 COMMISSIONER ELIA: You're welcome.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

20 Senator?

21 Assemblyman Otis.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you,

23 Commissioner.

24 I just wanted to follow up on the

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1 English language learner question in a little

2 more detail. Appreciate very much what the

3 Regents put in the budget proposal, and

4 appreciate Chairwoman Nolan's comments

5 earlier.

6 Specifically, could you speak to the

7 issue of why the Regents and SED feel it's

8 important to add English language learner

9 funding outside of the Foundation Aid

10 formula, that the importance of driving this

11 funding to districts more effectively is by

12 doing it outside of the formula?

13 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Yes. So I think

14 it's extremely important for us to target

15 those districts that have high populations,

16 and as was pointed out, the 154 regulations

17 were changed. And for many districts the

18 requirements of doing the 154 has been a

19 challenge to them. It relates to teacher

20 training, it relates to teacher

21 certification -- and Senator Young brought

22 that up -- it relates to how we can support

23 them with both instructional materials and an

24 approach that infuses them in content

117

1 classrooms with supports.

2 So the whole idea of making sure that

3 the districts receive funding -- yes, it's in

4 the formula, but from the perspective of

5 districts that are doing these shifts to a

6 full compliance with 154, it's a challenge

7 for them. And the extra funding will allow

8 us to do supports for the teachers and the

9 families through family/community engagement,

10 through resources for those students. All of

11 those are specific to English language

12 learners.

13 The other issue that I want to bring

14 up is that issue of the translation of the

15 assessments. I think that's an important

16 point. So understand, we have 200 languages

17 that are spoken by students who are in our

18 schools that are not English, and I think

19 it's important for us to make sure that the

20 eight -- at least the eight languages that

21 are most used by those families as their

22 native languages, that we provide those

23 resources for them.

24 The whole idea of students coming into

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1 our state, having interrupted educations,

2 puts another challenge on school districts.

3 Because not only do the students need to

4 learn English and be able to function with

5 content courses, but you have students that

6 are behind because they've not been in school

7 for a very long time. So they might not have

8 the basics of language themselves in their

9 own language, let alone in English. So those

10 students need special, very intense supports.

11 We really believe that to do it on an

12 equal basis for all students in all

13 districts, it's not getting to where we need

14 to really infuse funding to support them.

15 And both of our -- both our 3 through 8

16 assessments as well as the assessment -- you

17 know, the graduation data that we have on

18 students who have had involvement in the ELL

19 program and then exit that program, which

20 means that they have tested out, they have

21 levels of English that are sufficient, those

22 students are really much more successful

23 because they had those interventions. So

24 that's the basis for our request.

119

1 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: And I think the

2 request also reflects a sense of urgency for

3 these kids, that we get resources to them and

4 to the schools as quickly as possible so that

5 they don't progress in a non-satisfactory way

6 any longer than they have to.

7 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, absolutely.

8 And just now you can see our graduation rate

9 was 26.6 percent for our English language

10 learners who are still in the program

11 statewide. So there is intense need to

12 intervene to support those students and get

13 them in a position where, when they leave our

14 schools with a diploma -- and let me say one

15 other thing that I think is extremely

16 important. We also have data that shows that

17 if students stay in our ELL programs, they

18 have a much higher rate each year that they

19 stay. So we're doing a four-year graduation

20 rate, then we do a five-year graduation rate

21 and a six-year graduation rate, because

22 students who have to learn English and then

23 the content -- if they stay with us in our

24 schools, they have a much higher rate of

120

1 graduation.

2 So those are all increases that are

3 indicators that if we put the supports into

4 school districts, it really will make a

5 difference.

6 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you very

7 much. And thank you -- also I'll add to the

8 compliments about your traveling all over the

9 state and visiting schools. It's much

10 appreciated, your visibility has been great.

11 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

12 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Your access to

13 educators is great.

14 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

15 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

16 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Assemblyman Oaks.

17 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Yes. Thank you,

18 Commissioner.

19 Just in the state legislative

20 priorities, I looked through on your handout

21 and I did see the mandate relief and

22 flexibility. So just checking with you, I

23 know you talked some about reporting there.

24 But is this legislation you have or

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1 legislation you're looking to have proposed

2 or --

3 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, so --

4 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: It just said one of

5 your priorities is to have legislation to do

6 that. So just looking at your thoughts.

7 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, let me say I

8 come from a superintendency in a large

9 district, and it's always critical to know

10 from superintendents what's causing them

11 indigestion, if you will, making it difficult

12 for them to function.

13 And I think Senator Young brought up

14 some issues that are really critical. I

15 mean, we have things that are in place that

16 put our schools that have gone through some

17 tremendous shifts and changes and difficult

18 budgets over the years to have to face things

19 that we think there should be some relief

20 from. So I think those are some of the

21 things.

22 We also have an issue related to

23 contracting, so -- for transportation, for

24 food service. And some of the contracts

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1 districts have, sometimes we make it

2 difficult for them to get a contract that's a

3 good contract for them, that they know --

4 they may have to pass up some when they think

5 we've given them a better service and be able

6 to provide more efficiency in that contract.

7 So we just want to look at what we

8 believe would be best for our districts to be

9 the most efficient and the most supportive of

10 students as they can be. So, you know, you

11 have all sorts of -- as we talked about

12 earlier -- some unfunded mandates, right,

13 that relate to issues all over the page for

14 districts. I think it's important for us to

15 listen to them when they say, you know, "We

16 need some relief on this" or "If you change

17 it this way, it would be better for us."

18 Let me also mention the issue related

19 to the Smart Growth regulations for

20 construction, renovations, and addition

21 projects. Sometimes the regulations that we

22 put on districts cause additional expenses.

23 Another thing that helps districts is when

24 they can get their projects through our

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1 system for approval, which I think is a good

2 system, but once they can get those through,

3 ultimately they save money.

4 If they get held up with us, then the

5 costs that were projected for those projects

6 have probably gone up. So there's just a

7 number of areas where we feel that it would

8 be helpful to have those kinds of reliefs.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Well, certainly

10 from my perspective, you know, I hear that a

11 lot in my local district as well. And your

12 perspective from superintendency to

13 commissioner, and the sensitivity -- it's

14 nice to hear from the department that

15 recognition, and certainly I think

16 legislatively I'm very interested, and I'm

17 sure a number of our legislators would be, in

18 working with you on trying to do things that

19 are both frustrating, time-sensitive, but

20 also costly mandates to lift some of those

21 burdens as we go forward and look at tough

22 budget times. But if we can lessen some of

23 those other costs, perhaps that puts us in

24 better stead.

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1 But my other thing, I did see within

2 this -- the transition from school to the

3 workforce issues along that bridge to college

4 careers. I'm glad you highlighted some of

5 those things. I am very interested in that

6 whole issue of giving as many experiences as

7 we can to -- even to middle school, to high

8 school students, exposure to careers,

9 experiences. I know we had some of our local

10 businesses in our areas trying to challenge

11 others to do up to 5 percent of their

12 workforce, or about 100 employees, try to get

13 five students who are high school or

14 college-age, to bring them in to give them

15 work experiences. I think all of those are

16 very positive.

17 But the more that we can do at the

18 middle and high school level to get kids

19 those experiences, I'm hopeful that the State

20 Education Department can be a force to help

21 move schools along in that way and encourage

22 them so more of those can happen.

23 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I think the

24 opportunities certainly are there. I've had

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1 the opportunity to also to speak to the

2 business community in many areas across the

3 state, and I think that the opportunity there

4 is to get businesses, as you pointed out, if

5 they open their doors and let students come

6 in and experience some of the things that it

7 means to be in a business environment -- how

8 to behave, how to talk, how to dress,

9 experiences that they might not have -- and

10 take the opportunity to mentor those

11 students, then the opportunity for them to

12 have better employees, I think, is there.

13 And that all plays into the

14 development of a strong economy in New York.

15 We have so many different areas that have

16 economics that are really specific to that

17 area, companies and industries that could

18 build themselves. They need to have workers,

19 and the way to build those workers is to

20 develop the people in the high schools --

21 and, as she pointed out, middle schools -- to

22 say, I want to stay in this place and I want

23 to work for that company, because they took

24 me in and they gave me experiences that I

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1 wouldn't have.

2 So I think you're right on track to

3 say that those are great opportunities for us

4 to support, and we certainly are interested

5 in doing that. That does play back to our

6 request for additional funding to support

7 career and technical programs, because when

8 you talk to businesses across the state, we

9 need to connect what they need with the

10 schools and develop curricula around that and

11 experiences around that for our students.

12 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Also, as it was

13 mentioned, Assemblywoman Walsh mentioned the

14 issue of those who may have a local diploma,

15 may not reach all of the levels academically

16 that we have, but we may know in high school

17 that there also, though, might be work

18 opportunities -- maybe not going on to

19 college, but receiving some specific training

20 for types of jobs, connecting them at an

21 early time, giving a sense of hope that there

22 are jobs out there for them even if they

23 might not be the highest academic achievers.

24 I think is also something that should be part

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1 of our focus.

2 So thank you for your efforts and

3 ideas around this area.

4 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

6 Senator Gustavo Rivera, please.

7 SENATOR RIVERA: Thank you, Madam

8 Chairwoman.

9 Commissioner, thank you so much for

10 being here. I know it's been a long day. I

11 will be quick.

12 I particularly wanted to just thank

13 you and the department as well as Lester

14 Young for your efforts at making sure that we

15 fund My Brother's Keeper. We are -- after

16 the program was created, as you know, we're

17 the only state that actually funded it, and

18 we both thank the Governor as well as the

19 department for putting the money in there.

20 I wanted to see if you could give us a

21 little update of where things are. I wanted

22 to make sure that we keep it -- that we keep

23 it rolling.

24 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, I appreciate

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1 it. And all of you that are here, thank you

2 very much for your support. We all know that

3 that is -- if you think about the full scope

4 of the work that we're doing there in

5 providing not only the opportunities for

6 students in our schools to ultimately become

7 teachers in our schools and classrooms, but

8 also the work that we're doing to target

9 schools and support through community

10 engagement, their parents, and what happens

11 in those schools.

12 I think the agenda of equity is a huge

13 approach that -- a focus that needs to be

14 shared by all of us as partners in this. And

15 I really laud the efforts that have been made

16 by the Legislature and the Governor's office

17 to support My Brother's Keeper here in

18 New York State. More and more of our schools

19 are becoming involved in that, and we really

20 want to focus on it. And I appreciate your

21 support -- as I know the Regents chancellor,

22 vice chancellor, and certainly Regent Young

23 do.

24 SENATOR RIVERA: Thank you so much,

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1 Madam Commissioner.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Assemblyman Titone.

4 ASSEMBLYMAN TITONE: Thank you.

5 Good morning -- or good afternoon,

6 Chancellor. And I just want to publicly --

7 you've been to Staten Island so many times

8 and, from my heart, we are so appreciative,

9 the parents are so appreciative. So thank

10 you for coming and listening to us.

11 COMMISSIONER ELIA: You know, I'm

12 sorry, last -- last week --

13 ASSEMBLYMAN TITONE: And of course --

14 COMMISSIONER ELIA: -- when I was

15 there I couldn't mention, but Staten Island

16 has the highest percent of graduation rate of

17 the boroughs. And it would have been a great

18 thing to mention to that family, and the

19 parents --

20 ASSEMBLYMAN TITONE: Sure. Sure.

21 COMMISSIONER ELIA: -- progressed.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN TITONE: And you know, I

23 really just wanted, you know, your

24 reassurances of our safety against bear

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1 attacks in our school. It's certainly

2 appreciated as well.

3 (Laughter.)

4 ASSEMBLYMAN TITONE: On page 15 of the

5 report that you handed to us, you speak to

6 Excessive Teacher Turnover Prevention. And

7 one of the things that we know is that, you

8 know, vacancy of special ed teachers as of

9 September is around that 15 percent, whereas

10 with certified teacher assistants it's

11 probably around 18 percent.

12 And that we know with reimbursements,

13 you know, the state reimburses our 853

14 schools approximately -- a little bit over

15 $50,000 per year per child. With our

16 New York City District 75 schools, it's

17 nearly $90,000 per year per child. A charter

18 school, it could be close to $100,000 per

19 year per child. And if a child is out of

20 state, that reimbursement rate could exceed

21 over $109,000 per year.

22 So these are the things that kind of

23 impact how an 853 school has the ability to

24 retain its teachers. You know, certainly

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1 there's a real competition -- the 853 school

2 will basically train a teacher and that

3 teacher then has a better opportunity, in

4 particular in New York City, to then go into

5 the District 75 system.

6 I'm heartened that the state is asking

7 for an increase of $4 million to address

8 these issues, which would bring us to

9 approximately $8 million. But I'm curious

10 because when I look at the numbers, if we

11 truly want parity and if we really want to

12 keep our special ed teachers in our

13 853 schools, in our 4410 schools, it seems to

14 me that we need closer to $18 million.

15 So my numbers and State Ed's

16 numbers -- and again, I'm really grateful

17 that you're asking for the increase. But

18 where does the $4 million increase come from?

19 How do you reckon that within your budget

20 proposal?

21 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, so let me

22 say that for a period of time, as you are

23 well aware, there was no increases at all.

24 And so in the context of the entire budget,

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1 we believe that doubling that amount of

2 money -- and we've had conversations with

3 those schools, really anecdotally, to say if

4 we double this fund that is specifically for

5 teacher turnover, it will help in that way.

6 But clearly we need to look at the

7 rate setting for those schools, because that

8 also will affect ultimately the salary

9 levels, et cetera, for teachers there. And

10 we had, for four years, it was zero growth.

11 And then, although we've started to come

12 back, those schools have not made up for the

13 period of time when they didn't have growth.

14 And it's been particularly difficult.

15 So that's one of the areas. So can I say

16 that we have asked for what we think would be

17 the full amount of making sure? No, we

18 haven't. But in the context of we really

19 know that we need to address the rates, we

20 felt like the doubling the amount of money

21 that we were supporting, particularly for

22 teacher turnover, would help there.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN TITONE: Sure, and I

24 couldn't agree more with you, and appreciate

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1 you saying that, that we really do need to

2 address the inequities in the rates.

3 But I also believe that there are

4 certain things that we can be doing at

5 State Ed, with the Legislature as partners,

6 when it comes to policy. For example, you

7 know, if a child shows up -- well, if a --

8 let's just, for example, say that the

9 occupational therapist shows up to the school

10 but the child for whatever reason doesn't.

11 Maybe he or she has the flu and doesn't show

12 up. Well, the 853 school still has to pay

13 the occupational therapist for his or her

14 time, but there's no reimbursement.

15 So then what happens is that the

16 occupational therapist is asked to come back

17 in two days when the child is there. There

18 are anecdotal instances where there's still

19 no reimbursement to the 853 school, because

20 the services were not provided when they were

21 supposed to have been provided or when they

22 said that they were supposed to be provided.

23 Additionally, you know, let's just say

24 Monday the child was sick and then is

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1 supposed to have OT and did not; there's no

2 reimbursement. Wednesday the child is in,

3 the OT is there, the 853 school has to pay

4 that occupational therapist twice, but is

5 only being reimbursed once.

6 So I think there are certain policies

7 that we can do if we can't get their rates

8 increased for them, that we can at least come

9 up with policies so that they're saving

10 money. And this is one of those areas that I

11 hope we can explore. If we can't give them

12 money, how do we help make them save money?

13 And by having them have to fight tooth

14 and nail with us and our lawyers, it seems

15 counterproductive, counterintuitive to what

16 we truly want to do, keeping our 853 and 4410

17 schools open. And our teachers --

18 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So we believe that

19 creating a statutory index for establishing a

20 growth in the 853 schools would be extremely

21 helpful, and that is a solution that would

22 have to come from the Legislature.

23 Also providing a general reserve fund

24 for those schools would also be helpful, and

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1 that would have to come from the Legislature.

2 And I can tell you that we believe --

3 and I know many of you have called our office

4 because of specific schools that are facing

5 these difficulties, and if in fact they were

6 to close, that is a crisis for those families

7 and all. We believe that there needs to be

8 changes in the rate setting and the

9 approaches that we take in that. That isn't

10 going to happen overnight, because it has to

11 be well thought out. And we should be really

12 developing something like the Foundation

13 formula for the 853 schools, so that there're

14 increases, so that we know that the needs are

15 being met.

16 And you're correct that there are some

17 challenges particularly for private providers

18 in the 853, and in the fact that if they have

19 specific contracted individuals come to

20 support a child who's ill who's not there,

21 then in fact they get caught in that. But

22 there needs to be the ability to have some

23 kind of a system set up so that it isn't that

24 they are constantly in a serious -- in

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1 serious constraints over their budget.

2 We agree with you, and this has been

3 something that the Regents, for a very long

4 time, have --

5 ASSEMBLYMAN TITONE: Sure, and I --

6 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you. Thank

7 you. I'm sorry, time's up.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

9 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Next is Murray --

11 I'm sorry, you were --

12 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I was just going to

13 ask one quick thing.

14 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Sure, Senator.

15 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Commissioner, I

16 just had one quick issue to discuss.

17 The State Office of Religious and

18 Independent Schools was funded at $2 million

19 in the 2016-'17 budget, and out of that money

20 there's approximately $700,000 that would be

21 used within State Ed itself to staff the

22 office. But the other part is available for

23 initiatives --

24 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Right.

137

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: -- that are related

2 to the office.

3 So first of all, what is your timeline

4 for fully staffing and operating the State

5 Office of Religious and Independent Schools?

6 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So I believe we

7 have one of the positions fully staffed --

8 one position is staffed. We have several

9 others that are waiting approval. We have

10 one position that is with Civil Service and,

11 because it was a change in that position,

12 we're anxious to move forward on that. And I

13 have an advisory meeting with individuals who

14 represent the nonpublic schools to see

15 exactly what the issues are and how we can

16 move that funding forward.

17 As you're well aware, $2 million was

18 initially awarded to the State Ed office. We

19 had the ongoing cost of the office staff,

20 which was about 700, but the rest of that

21 funding was, in my understanding, not in the

22 Executive Budget. So the funding that you're

23 talking about is a -- at this point was from

24 last year. We are moving forward to have

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1 that go out, specifically to the non-publics.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I think it is in

3 the reappropriation language in the

4 Governor's budget proposal. So, I guess,

5 what would your definition or your

6 interpretation of initiatives be for the

7 remaining $1.3 million?

8 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, as I said, I

9 have an advisory group that is supportive of

10 using those resources to address a number of

11 issues they have. Some of it is training

12 issues, conferences that they want to hold

13 for their teachers, we've had other requests

14 that specifically relate to facilities-type

15 things. And we're in a position -- I'm

16 anxious to meet with them to make sure that

17 we get that money out, and they are anxious

18 to have our office staffed.

19 So that was one of the points that I

20 brought up earlier. We don't control when we

21 get the approval to put those positions in.

22 I wish they were in today.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, great. So

24 anything you could do to expedite that --

139

1 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Absolutely. Thank

2 you.

3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: We have to help

4 her expedite it, that's the issue. She can't

5 do it if she can't fill the spot.

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Yeah.

7 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Assemblyman Murray.

8 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: Thank you,

9 Mr. Chairman.

10 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Good morning.

11 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: Good morning,

12 Commissioner.

13 So getting back to the alternative

14 pathways to graduation.

15 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Right.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: So --

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Hit your mic.

18 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: The button.

19 Yeah, it did. Let's try a different one.

20 Okay, we'll slide over. There we go.

21 So getting back to the alternative

22 pathways to graduation, it just feels like we

23 may be overcomplicating it. I have a lot of

24 parents that come to me and say, Why don't we

140

1 have the general diploma, or go back to it?

2 Now, you mentioned certain things,

3 such as the exceptions, where someone can get

4 a local diploma. Some of those exceptions,

5 again, were based on test scores. It seems

6 we're basing graduation, in many people's

7 opinions, including myself, too much on test

8 scores.

9 So we've got a situation where we have

10 CDOS, we have P-TECH. Then we talked about

11 the portfolio-based graduations, you said you

12 might want to look into a pilot program --

13 but that already exists with the consortium

14 schools. But there's a cap on that, they're

15 not letting any other schools participate in

16 that.

17 I know many schools have approached us

18 and said, Why can't we participate in that

19 consortium? And it's not happening. Why

20 won't we just open that up and get -- and try

21 and allow more of these schools to get to a

22 portfolio-based-type graduation?

23 COMMISSIONER ELIA: So let's be very

24 open about the fact that we want to have the

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1 diploma in New York have standards associated

2 with it.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: Sure.

4 COMMISSIONER ELIA: I think we all

5 want that.

6 We are right now looking at ways that

7 we can open that up to support students who

8 might, for many reasons, have ability but

9 not have been successful in school up to this

10 point, and not be targeted in what we're

11 doing to support them to be successful.

12 The Career and Technical programs, you

13 didn't mention that, but we have opened up,

14 in my short tenure in the department, we've

15 opened up approximately nine or 10 pathways

16 to graduation, up to close to 40.

17 So certification for a student that

18 comes out of school, where they could go

19 immediately into a job market with an

20 external certification, I think is an

21 important thing for us to make sure students

22 know they have options there and that in fact

23 that there's equity across the state in

24 providing those at all different schools,

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1 which we don't have right now.

2 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: And I appreciate

3 that as far as the CTE and BOCES and -- but

4 my question is, why wouldn't we then kind of

5 combine that? Because right now, under those

6 pathways you're mentioning, those are not

7 diplomas. Why don't we make a general

8 diploma?

9 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, in fact the

10 pathways I'm mentioning are, they lead to a

11 regular Regents diploma. And so opening up

12 opportunities for students to have that

13 involvement is going to allow them to have a

14 regular Regents diploma.

15 It is -- it's important to have

16 standards in the state so that a diploma in

17 New York State means that in fact a student

18 is ready to do something. We already have

19 too many students leaving our school

20 districts not having the background necessary

21 to go into and matriculate into our colleges

22 and universities. Right now, 40 percent of

23 the students are having to face doing

24 remedial work before they can go in and

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1 matriculate towards college.

2 So we are opening up, as we've done

3 over the last two years, we've opened up a

4 number of opportunities, and you have

5 students taking advantage of those

6 opportunities. Our graduation rate is going

7 up, and so is every student -- they're not

8 all going to pass the Regents exams in all of

9 those courses, I understand that, but we've

10 given them a number of options. And one of

11 the things that will hook students into

12 working harder and being successful and

13 getting a Regents diploma will be connecting

14 them to something that they think is

15 relevant. And very often, that has to do

16 with what was talked about earlier --

17 businesses being involved with them,

18 providing opportunities, and knowing that

19 when they leave us, they have something in

20 their hand that will allow them to move

21 forward.

22 And I would say to you, making sure

23 that everyone walks away with a diploma is

24 not necessarily preparing them for the next

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1 point in their life.

2 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: And I agree with

3 that. I was first going on the assumption

4 that the fact that we are allowing them to

5 matriculate and go up from K all the way up

6 through 12 and passing these grades and

7 moving on, that they are already meeting

8 certain standards, that we're not just

9 sending them to the next grade level just

10 because. So I would think that they already

11 do have -- there is a value to the diploma.

12 I'm hoping that we wouldn't be just handing

13 them out.

14 But with what you were saying with the

15 program, I agree with you completely. I

16 think career readiness is so important right

17 now, which again is why I'm wondering why we

18 don't go with the local diploma option with

19 giving these kids an option of having the

20 special certification or recognition with

21 that diploma in a particular field, such as

22 carpentry or cosmetology or electronics or

23 something like this.

24 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Well, that's what

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1 we're doing.

2 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: But it isn't a

3 diploma. It's a possibility of a diploma,

4 but it's still going to be based on test

5 scores, right? I mean, aren't they going to

6 go -- we could still offer the Regents and

7 give kids an opportunity to graduate with a

8 Regents diploma, which would hold much value.

9 It would show that they've exceeded, as we

10 had done in the past -- but it seems like

11 we're trying to meld everyone together to fit

12 that one mold, and we're basing a lot of it

13 on test scores, which is very frustrating for

14 those kids who've done everything to go K

15 through 12 but just can't pass those tests.

16 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

17 ASSEMBLYMAN MURRAY: And thank you.

18 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: We've been joined

20 by Assemblywoman Barbara Lifton.

21 And to close, Assemblywoman Fahy.

22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Thank you,

23 Mr. Chairman.

24 Thank you, Commissioner. It's a

146

1 pleasure to have you here again. I'm sorry I

2 missed your earlier testimony; too many

3 things going on.

4 I have one question, and I just want

5 to make one comment as an intro to that. I

6 appreciate your comment the other day when

7 the updated graduation rates were sent out

8 and you noted the lagging, the tremendous

9 lagging of English language learners or the

10 ESL students, or previous ESL students.

11 And I shared your concern. As you

12 know, right here in Albany, one small, small

13 school district, 8,000 children, and we have

14 over 57 languages taught now in just that

15 small school district. Sorry, over 57

16 languages spoken, not taught.

17 So I am concerned. And I was just at

18 an upstate caucus meeting this morning where

19 we talked about the lack of ESL teachers, and

20 I know you've addressed it as well in your

21 testimony. That said, could you -- so

22 knowing that, and knowing the background

23 along with a host of other turnover issues

24 that you've also addressed and raised today,

147

1 can you give us an update on the teacher

2 preparation program and tell us where we are

3 now?

4 As you know, there was lots of turmoil

5 with that as well, which may have fueled some

6 of the loss of numbers in the profession.

7 But are there any updates in terms of how we

8 are doing there with hanging on to the

9 students entering teaching and then their

10 graduation or completion rates as well?

11 Thank you, Commissioner.

12 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Sure. So I know

13 you're aware -- we have been working jointly

14 with SUNY, so I think it's exciting that

15 Nancy Zimpher and I, as the SUNY chancellor

16 working together with the commissioner of

17 State Ed, are together looking at these

18 issues. Our Regents -- and Regent Cashin is

19 here -- have been very involved in becoming

20 very knowledgeable on what are some of the

21 issues.

22 We have, in fact -- she was part of

23 the reinstatement of the edTPA workgroup that

24 came up with initially the recommendations

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1 specific to those -- the exams for -- that

2 lead to certification. Unfortunately, the

3 weather didn't support yesterday's meeting

4 for us to be together and make some of those

5 changes occur and present them to the public.

6 But we have changes that are coming with some

7 of the exams and with looking at how a

8 teacher moves out of becoming a teacher in

9 preparation and a teacher that's in a

10 classroom. We think that there's some work

11 that needs to be done in the teachers'

12 opportunities to learn in schools prior to

13 their leaving their teacher ed program.

14 So those are all things that are on

15 the docket for us, if you will, and some will

16 be happening much more quickly than others.

17 Related to the issue of why we have

18 concerns about teachers -- if you look

19 specifically, we have two or three areas that

20 we are really behind, and one of them you've

21 mentioned is the English language learners

22 certified teachers as well as our students

23 with disabilities teachers. Both of those

24 are areas that are national problems, not

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1 just New York, but it doesn't make it any

2 better for us, because we have that issue.

3 So we are addressing those issues with

4 our teacher ed programs. We're working with

5 them to understand that if they give us

6 teachers that are certified in those areas,

7 they will be in great demand. And in terms

8 of that, we're also looking at ways that we

9 can make sure that districts can support

10 teachers that are currently certified in an

11 area to get that add-on certification and

12 then support those students within their

13 classrooms.

14 So those are the agendas that we have.

15 We are expanding the options and

16 opportunities for those certifications.

17 We've also done some things to allow

18 districts to make us aware of issues that

19 they have specific to certification areas,

20 and provided opportunities and waivers for

21 them for a short period of time until they

22 can get their people certified.

23 So those are all things that are

24 happening in the department. And there's no

150

1 question that the issue of having qualified

2 teachers in every classroom is what will make

3 the difference for our students, so it's got

4 to be a major agenda for the department as

5 well as for SUNY and CUNY and the

6 independents, all of who in fact are

7 preparing their teachers to go into our

8 classrooms.

9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Thank you,

10 Commissioner. And I also appreciate your

11 comments on pre-K.

12 Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

14 much.

15 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

17 Commissioner. We appreciate the opportunity.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: We did it in

19 less than three hours.

20 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Wasn't that a fast

21 half hour?

22 (Laughter.)

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: That's a record.

24 Rick Mills was here for five hours once.

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1 COMMISSIONER ELIA: And we will follow

2 up with information. Several of you, I

3 know -- we'll get the information to you as

4 soon as --

5 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Next will be the

6 New York City Department of Education, Carmen

7 FariÒa, chancellor.

8 COMMISSIONER ELIA: Thank you.

9 (Pause.)

10 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: If we could have

11 people take their conversations, please, out

12 in the hall so that we can start with our

13 next presenter. If we could have people in

14 discussions, please take them out in the

15 hall.

16 Our next presenter, Carmen FariÒa,

17 chancellor, New York City Department of

18 Education.

19 Chancellor.

20 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Good morning.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Just a big

22 welcome. We're so happy you're here today.

23 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, Happy

24 Valentine's Day.

152

1 And this is also a great day to

2 announce that New York City is actually

3 introducing today a hashtag,

4 #PSILoveMySchool. And as of last night, we

5 have 400 entries from schools all around the

6 city. So I encourage, if you have a school

7 in your community that you love, join our

8 hashtag and tell us why you love us.

9 Good morning, Senate Finance Committee

10 Chair Young, Assembly Ways and Means

11 Committee Chair Farrell, ranking members

12 Senator Krueger and Assemblyman Oaks,

13 Education Chairs Marcellino and Nolan, and

14 all the members of the State Senate and State

15 Assembly here today.

16 I want to thank you for the

17 opportunity to testify today on behalf of

18 New York City's public school system and its

19 students. I would also like to thank you for

20 your continued partnership.

21 With me is Raymond Orlando, chief

22 financial officer for the New York City

23 Department of Education.

24 As chancellor, I'm not satisfied till

153

1 every single public school student in

2 New York City is getting a high-quality

3 education. I am proud, however, of what we

4 have accomplished so far on behalf of the

5 city's students. Last year's graduation rate

6 is the highest it has ever been, with

7 72.6 percent of high school students

8 graduating in four years. Our dropout rate

9 is 8.5 percent, the lowest it has ever been.

10 We are also pleased with the results from

11 last year's New York State tests in

12 English -- ELA -- and math, where New York

13 City outperformed the rest of the state in

14 ELA results for the first time.

15 This year we have also achieved the

16 highest-ever post-secondary enrollment

17 rate -- 55 percent of the Class of 2015, with

18 77 percent of graduates enrolling in

19 college -- the highest-ever number of

20 New York City students taking and passing

21 Advanced Placement exams, with an 8 percent

22 increase in both; the highest-ever college

23 readiness rate -- which is actually a New

24 York City standard that says it's not about

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1 graduating but it's about how you succeed,

2 particularly in your freshman year in

3 college -- 37 percent of all students, and

4 51 percent of graduates in the Class of 2016

5 graduated high school on time and met CUNY's

6 standards for college readiness in English

7 and math.

8 Our schools are starting earlier, with

9 70,000 free, full-day, high-quality pre-K

10 seats. This would not have been possible

11 without the financial support you've

12 provided, and continue to provide, and I want

13 to thank you for that.

14 While we are pleased with our

15 progress, we know there is more to be done.

16 This is why Mayor de Blasio and I announced

17 the Equity and Excellence for All initiative,

18 with ambitious goals for New York City. By

19 2026, 80 percent of our students will

20 graduate high school on time, and two-thirds

21 of our graduates will be college-ready.

22 This school year marks the first full

23 year of implementation of these Equity and

24 Excellence initiatives, which will be rolled

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1 out to schools citywide over the next several

2 years. There are over 800 schools with at

3 least one Equity and Excellence program this

4 year, a number which will continue to grow

5 over the course of the year.

6 Some of the highlights. Our Universal

7 Literacy Initiative is taking off, with over

8 100 reading coaches in elementary schools to

9 ensure that, by the end of second grade, all

10 students will be reading on grade level.

11 These are coaches that work in schools with

12 all the teachers in kindergarten to second

13 grade. They go into classrooms, they do

14 demonstration lessons, they do training for

15 the teachers -- because one of the things

16 that we've learned is that it's important, in

17 order to keep your teachers, to keep offering

18 them professional development. And this has

19 been done for four districts and will be

20 rolled out to even more districts next year.

21 Our Algebra for All initiative is

22 improving math instruction in over 200

23 elementary, middle, and high schools. We're

24 starting this work in the fifth grade in a

156

1 departmentalized way which was started in

2 many of our Renewal Schools, because teachers

3 who are trained specifically to teach math

4 tend to be a lot more excited about it than a

5 teacher who teaches an entire grade, of fifth

6 grade. And we have 100 elementary schools

7 that are piloting that this year, and we

8 expect to grow that next year.

9 Our College Access for All initiative

10 is making college an achievable expectation

11 for our students. We have eliminated the

12 CUNY application fee for our low-income

13 students, and all high school juniors will

14 take the SAT for free during the school day,

15 in their own schools, on April 5th of this

16 year.

17 This is very important because when we

18 did some research on who took the SATs in the

19 past, many students, because they had to go

20 to a different school, it was always on

21 Saturdays, told us that just leaving their

22 communities was a hassle. Many of our

23 students have part-time jobs. Many students,

24 if they had to travel more than a bus and a

157

1 train, were not showing up at the SATs. So

2 having it in their schools, all on the same

3 day, with the teachers proctoring, is making

4 it much more accessible.

5 Twenty thousand middle-schoolers are

6 visiting colleges, and we're giving their

7 families support along the way. I was just

8 at Brooklyn College, where we had some

9 middle-schoolers coming to visit, and their

10 mouths dropped open because they didn't

11 realize that colleges have things like pools.

12 One of the big stars of the visit was

13 cafeterias where you could pick your own food

14 and they could choose what they wanted to

15 eat.

16 And I think for many of our students,

17 what you don't see, what you can't imagine,

18 you can't believe in for yourself. So being

19 on a campus and seeing what it's like -- and

20 we invite their parents to come with them so

21 we can also talk to parents about having

22 higher expectations for the students. This

23 year we also increased our Parents

24 Information Centers for middle-school parents

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1 on how to start working in middle school to

2 get their children into college.

3 Last year, we saw a record number of

4 students who took at least one AP exam.

5 Participation and performance gains were

6 largest for black and Hispanic students, with

7 an 18 percent increase in the number of black

8 students passing at least one AP exam, and a

9 10.8 percent increase in the number of

10 Hispanic students passing at least one AP.

11 Our AP for All initiative, which is bringing

12 new AP courses to 63 high schools this year,

13 will eventually bring every high school

14 student access to at least five AP courses.

15 This is unprecedented in New York City.

16 Expanding access to these courses is

17 critical, and I applaud Governor Cuomo's

18 proposal to increase the amount of state

19 funding to assist with exam fees.

20 An example of this is also that we

21 have 12 collocated high school campuses which

22 have a total of 54 schools. And on these

23 campuses alone, we have now opened AP classes

24 to students in each others' schools on the

159

1 same campus. So if you're attending, for

2 example, Lehman High School campus, you can

3 take AP courses in other classes in other

4 courses.

5 So for example, in the Bronx, only one

6 of the schools had an AP course. And now one

7 of the students said he's actually going to

8 be graduating by having taken I think nine AP

9 courses, because he took them outside of his

10 own school in the other schools in the same

11 building. And that's something we're doing

12 in all the boroughs.

13 The Single Shepherd initiative in

14 District 7 in the Bronx and District 23 in

15 Brooklyn is showing promise. These are our

16 neediest districts in terms of demographics,

17 poverty, and by any measure that you can

18 imagine. This initiative is going to serve

19 16,000 students. This initiative very simply

20 gives each family -- it's not just for the

21 students -- a dedicated either social worker

22 or guidance counselor that's going to follow

23 the student for seven years. And everything

24 is their job.

160

1 For example, if a family is being

2 threatened with eviction, if a family has

3 some other kind of crisis -- a mental health

4 problem -- this particular Single Shepherd

5 follows the family and helps the family. And

6 this does not supplant existing guidance

7 counselors; this is in addition to the

8 guidance counselors.

9 I'll give you an anecdote. In

10 District 7, a family went to the school to

11 ask the principal to help them assign their

12 child to a residency, they wanted to put

13 their child in a residence because they

14 couldn't handle him anymore at home. And the

15 Single Shepherd was able to work with the

16 family and meets with them once a week now.

17 And because of that, to me, a child's life

18 has been saved.

19 So we're looking at Single Shepherds

20 as a way to help entire families and

21 communities, and we see this as a really

22 important initiative.

23 We are constantly working with

24 nonprofit and private partners to meet the

161

1 shared goal to provide every single New York

2 City student with a quality education. This

3 is true of our Computer Science for All

4 initiative, made possible by a public-private

5 partnership. This program is intended to

6 develop a plan to work with underserved

7 students, including female, African-American,

8 and Latino students. Our work with

9 elementary schools is intended to expose

10 underrepresented students to computer science

11 at a younger age so they gain the skills and

12 confidence to pursue pathways in computer

13 science and technology.

14 We also have a very special

15 partnership with the Rockefeller Foundation

16 and the musical Hamilton -- and the Miranda

17 family has been particularly helpful in

18 supporting this -- where we are enabling

19 20,000 New York City 11th graders to attend

20 Hamilton. I was just there this past week,

21 because the students actually get on the

22 stage in the morning and perform something

23 from Hamilton's life. And to have them have

24 their peers -- which is 1300 students in the

162

1 audience -- cheer them on is not just about

2 bringing social studies alive, which is one

3 of my passions for our schools, but building

4 students' self-confidence.

5 It ties in also with the fact that we

6 this year came out with a social studies

7 program that has just been designated by the

8 United States Defense Department as one that

9 they want in all their schools around the

10 world.

11 And for all our schools, there's

12 always an opportunity to learn and grow,

13 particularly from each other. Through the

14 District-Charter Partnerships, district and

15 charter schools are coming together -- and

16 about two Saturdays ago I attended

17 professional development that was led by the

18 Uncommon Schools Network for teachers and

19 principals in two of our districts in

20 central Brooklyn.

21 In addition to the programs that I've

22 mentioned, we've expanded access to physical

23 education and sports programs, particularly

24 for female students and those that attend

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1 smaller schools. We created 150 community

2 schools providing access to mental health,

3 health and vision services. We're working

4 towards changing school climate and

5 implementing restorative practices in our

6 schools. For the first time, our summer

7 programs are serving high-need

8 second-graders, and we plan to serve 4,400

9 more second-graders this coming spring. And

10 all of them will have a program that is an

11 enrichment program rather than a remedial

12 program, and we're very excited about that.

13 I am particularly proud of our work to

14 better serve students who are English

15 language learners, our ELLs. As a former ELL

16 student myself, this work is very personal.

17 We currently have 434 bilingual programs in

18 every borough in the city and will continue

19 to open more. We are holding, for the first

20 time ever in New York City, Saturday parent

21 conferences in their native language. We've

22 had them in Spanish, we've had them in

23 Mandarin. I attended one -- again,

24 recently -- in Bengali, and we're having one

164

1 in Arabic. And the entire conference is held

2 in that language; I'm the only one who has to

3 get translated.

4 Our former ELL students who placed out

5 of being an ELL in the two years prior to

6 graduation posted great gains in graduation

7 rates -- 84.1 percent, up from 78.9 percent

8 last year. We still have a lot more to do in

9 this area, and that's why we've partnered

10 with Dr. Nonie Lesaux from the Harvard

11 Graduate School of Education's Language

12 Diversity and Literacy Development to design

13 an institute to equip schools with tools and

14 knowledge to independently deepen their work

15 with ELLs. I thank the Assembly Education

16 Committee for holding a hearing on ELLs last

17 December, and the leadership exhibited from

18 legislators on this important issue.

19 Additionally, since I became an

20 educator 51 years ago, involving parents has

21 been a central focus. This continues each

22 and every day across the DOE. We are pleased

23 that our increased emphasis on parent

24 engagement has resulted in significantly more

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1 parents attending parent-teacher conferences.

2 We instituted something in New York City

3 called student-led conferences, where

4 students actually attend, with their parents,

5 and lead the conferences. And what we're

6 finding -- one district in the city in

7 particular had almost 100 percent parent

8 attendance at parent-teacher conferences

9 because their students lead the conference.

10 We have more parents participating and

11 running for local Community Education

12 Councils, our CECs. In fact, CEC elections

13 are happening right now, and to learn more

14 about CEC elections this year and to apply,

15 parents should visit NYCparentleaders.org.

16 And I certainly encourage all of you to get

17 out to your constituencies, those in New York

18 City, to apply for these seats. The last CEC

19 and citywide council elections in 2015 had

20 1,290 parents apply, and that was up from 729

21 in 2013 and 511 in 2011. We are hoping for

22 even greater numbers.

23 And this is a group that I now meet

24 with on Saturdays to give them more time. I

166

1 meet with the CEC presidents one Saturday a

2 month to talk about the issues that we now

3 feel that they have a major role to play in,

4 and one of them is rezoning. And any of you

5 who have kept in touch with what's happening

6 in New York City, City Council District 3 has

7 really played a very important role in what

8 is evolving there.

9 The DOE also continues to focus on

10 increasing diversity through systemwide and

11 localized approaches, and I have asked my

12 senior leadership team to work on these

13 important efforts through operations,

14 programming, instruction and policy. Last

15 year, we implemented our first-ever diversity

16 in admissions pilot, encouraging principals

17 to develop admissions priorities to increase

18 diversity. I am pleased to report that we

19 will expand this program to 19 schools this

20 year, I want to thank the Legislature for the

21 funding in last year's budget to support

22 initiatives to help increase diversity in our

23 specialized high schools. This funding

24 supports several initiatives, including

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1 outreach, teacher training, and tutoring and

2 preparation programs, all targeted toward

3 students underrepresented at our specialized

4 high schools.

5 I am also grateful for the funding the

6 DOE received last year under the My Brother's

7 Keeper Initiative, and I am pleased to see

8 funding included in the proposed budget for

9 this year as well. We look forward to

10 continuing to work with you to support New

11 York City students with funding. This

12 funding has been done very locally, it has

13 been with the engagement of the

14 superintendents, based on the needs. And one

15 of the major focuses on a lot of this has

16 been in terms of college preparation, college

17 work, and also mentoring, particularly young

18 men of color, partnering them with people who

19 will help them see all the possibilities out

20 there.

21 I also want to thank the Legislature

22 for the Smart Schools Bond Act. Although our

23 proposal has not yet been approved by the

24 state, that funding will go a long way toward

168

1 bolstering our efforts to modernize our

2 schools, including supporting our Computer

3 Science for All effort, and to fully remove

4 and replace TCUs. This administration has

5 committed to prioritizing the removal of all

6 352 TCUs in place when the mayor took office.

7 There is a $405 million ask in the city's

8 capital plan for the removal of TCUs,

9 $300 million of which is Smart Schools Bond

10 Act funding. Ninety-four have already been

11 removed, and plans are underway to remove 104

12 more. We are actively creating plans to

13 remove the remaining ones. And it goes

14 hand-in-hand with funding for over 44,000 new

15 school seats in the current five-year capital

16 plan. And in January, we committed to

17 funding 38,000 more in the next five-year

18 capital plan.

19 More broadly, I would like to thank

20 the Legislature for always supporting

21 additional funding for our public schools.

22 Additional state funding has allowed us to do

23 more for students, including addressing

24 inequity in funding to our schools through

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1 Fair Student Funding. Over two years, we

2 raised the citywide average from 88 percent

3 to 91 percent. We are funding all Renewal

4 and Community Schools at 100 percent of their

5 Fair Student Funding level, and no school in

6 the city is below 87 percent. Next year we

7 intend to raise the citywide average to

8 92.5 percent, with no school below 90 percent

9 of their Fair Student Funding, a plan that is

10 contingent on a similar level of growth in

11 Foundation Aid as we've received in the past

12 two years.

13 We are committed to getting to

14 100 percent for all schools by the year 2021,

15 an accomplishment that can be realized if the

16 state continues its commitment to fulfill the

17 Campaign for Fiscal Equity settlement. I

18 know this is a priority for many of you as

19 well, and I deeply appreciate your

20 commitment. The phase-in of Foundation Aid

21 is critical to ensuring funding levels that

22 will enable the city to provide a

23 constitutionally guaranteed sound, basic

24 education to our students. The state's

170

1 commitment to satisfying the shortfall must

2 remain intact.

3 Similarly, I want to voice my support

4 for State Ed's request for additional funding

5 for Career and Technical Education, CTE

6 programs. I know MaryEllen and I are totally

7 in agreement in this. And we need not only

8 your support financially, but also in terms

9 of changing some of the legal language,

10 through the State Legislature, to ensure that

11 we can graduate more students with a CTE

12 diploma.

13 CTE programs provide a unique

14 opportunity to prepare students with the

15 skills and rigorous academics to both

16 graduate with a career skill and be

17 college-ready. We are investing in 40 new

18 high-quality CTE programs over the next three

19 school years and strengthening our numerous

20 existing programs.

21 For example, I went to visit Co-op

22 Tech recently, visited the carpentry program.

23 And one of the discoveries is that the

24 carpentry program -- I know, Velmanette,

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1 you're particularly interested in this --

2 that the carpenters union is also the union

3 that represents the divers of New York City.

4 Because divers are considered carpenters

5 underwater. So we're also looking to how we

6 create more CTE programs for maritime,

7 particularly in Brooklyn and Staten Island.

8 So we're working on that.

9 We want to help improve CTEs through

10 changing regulations around licensing for CTE

11 teachers to allow more individuals with

12 relevant field experience the opportunity to

13 teach some of the harder-to-staff CTE

14 programs, including computer science.

15 The budget also makes several changes

16 to the charter school landscape that come at

17 the expense of the Department of Education.

18 It is important that this be balanced with

19 continued improvement in our public schools.

20 In order to maintain that balance, the state

21 must fund any increased support to charter

22 schools, not New York City.

23 All of the progress I have described

24 would not have been possible without mayoral

172

1 control of the New York City school system.

2 I have worked in three different governance

3 systems, in many different capacities --

4 teacher, staff developer, principal,

5 superintendent, deputy chancellor and now

6 chancellor -- and I can say without a doubt

7 that this governance system is the most

8 efficient, the most transparent, and most

9 capable of getting results for students. I

10 might also say the most accountable. What we

11 do is public, it's out there, the press sees

12 it, and the evaluation is done by the public

13 at large.

14 With hard work and appropriate

15 resources, New York City's students are

16 capable of anything. I know you feel the

17 same way, and I am grateful for your hard

18 work on behalf of your communities and their

19 students. We have a lot of work ahead of us.

20 And I thank you for your time and want

21 to remind everyone that as far as I'm

22 concerned, #PSILoveAllMySchools. And I also

23 know that this is the best way to have a

24 democracy that works for all of this country.

173

1 So thank you, and I look forward to

2 your questions.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

4 much.

5 First to ask questions, Chair Nolan.

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you,

7 Mr. Farrell and my colleagues. I just want

8 to remind everyone again what a lifelong

9 educator Chancellor FariÒa is, because I

10 always think I know everything about New York

11 City, and she tells me now that divers are

12 carpenters underwater. So she's always

13 educating, even when she's giving testimony.

14 I just want to say quickly I

15 appreciate your support for Foundation Aid.

16 I appreciate your reminding the committee how

17 important it is, because we do feel that it's

18 under some threat. So I appreciate that.

19 I appreciate your comments about the

20 trailers, which as you know has been a

21 concern of mine for a very, very long time

22 and one of the reasons so many years ago I

23 asked to chair this committee. And we are

24 finally, under your leadership, making some

174

1 progress. But I want to remind you and my

2 colleagues that the number of trailers means

3 that we still have almost 10,000 children in

4 trailers. And for many of my colleagues from

5 other parts of the state, that would be a

6 very large-sized school district for them.

7 So we are talking about thousands of children

8 still receiving their education in what is

9 essentially a firetrap.

10 So I want to -- you know, I appreciate

11 the movement, but I want to continue to

12 support pressure for it and want to express

13 my concern that the Smart Schools Bond Act

14 has not yet been released, that money for the

15 city. And I was so glad Senator Marcellino

16 brought it up earlier with Commissioner Elia.

17 So we're going to continue to work on that

18 and give you the support you need to remove

19 trailers.

20 I appreciate the comments on CTE.

21 Would like you to perhaps elaborate a little

22 bit, though, on after-school. The Governor

23 did put some money, the Executive put some

24 after-school money in there. The mayor had

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1 announced an initiative last year about

2 after-school in all middle schools, and I

3 think -- I'd like to hear you speak about

4 that.

5 And then just two other quick things

6 and I'm done. Renewal Schools, as you know,

7 continue to be the subject of a great deal of

8 conversation and scrutiny. We had a hearing

9 well over a year ago now on the Community

10 School concept. I have a Renewal School,

11 PS 111. And I think you know, you know, many

12 vociferous and upset issues and many, many --

13 a lot of angst about it. But I will say,

14 finally, finally there has been some true

15 progress. And I think in my own mind one of

16 the reasons is that you've been able to be

17 flexible about children with IEPs and getting

18 a team-teaching approach, et cetera,

19 et cetera. So I'd like for you to talk a

20 little bit more about what you're doing at

21 Renewal Schools.

22 So after-school, Renewal Schools, and

23 then I'd like you to elaborate a little bit

24 more about how those charter proposals take

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1 money from New York City public school

2 students to give them to other New York City

3 public school students who you have no real

4 authority over. So, you know, that's an

5 issue for us, obviously. You know, I have

6 good working relationships with charter

7 schools in my district, but we have to sort

8 of realize taking money from one student and

9 giving it to another, as the Governor's

10 proposals -- you know, I guess that's their

11 proposals -- is not going to be the answer.

12 So after-school, Renewal Schools, and

13 charter schools, maybe you could elaborate a

14 little bit.

15 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Let me take them

16 in kind of --

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: And thanks for

18 telling me about the divers.

19 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Okay. No, I was

20 very impressed when I learned that too.

21 Well, first of all, I think I want to

22 start with Renewal Schools. Because Senator

23 Comrie, August Martin -- who would have

24 thought that what was happening there could

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1 happen? Senator Montgomery, PS 67,

2 unbelievable stuff happening there. They

3 actually just came out in the papers. And

4 obviously 111.

5 So very specifically, what is

6 happening in Renewal Schools is that we have

7 many of them -- 34 of them, to be exact, and,

8 I don't remember -- more as we speak. We

9 have created a new leadership. One of the

10 first things we know about what makes a

11 school work is the principal. So we make

12 sure that the right principal is in charge of

13 a school.

14 The other thing, we have community-

15 based organizations in all these schools and

16 the community-based organizations have

17 wraparound programs -- but different than in

18 the past, they're embedded in the school

19 during the school day. So they are not

20 coming as an after-school program, they have

21 to be in the classrooms, working along with

22 the teachers, and providing things like

23 mental health, parent supports. Whatever it

24 takes in that specific school, that's what

178

1 they're there for. And that's made a major

2 difference, particularly in our high schools.

3 The other thing about renewal schools,

4 we now have highly trained, what we call

5 district school renewal directors who work in

6 the schools and work alongside all the

7 teachers with professional development. We

8 now have a data system that is working in

9 every single Renewal School, i-Ready, and

10 something called ISSP, which actually starts

11 analyzing everything that's happening in the

12 schools, from the rate of suspensions,

13 attendance, teacher retention -- all the

14 benchmarks that we feel are important to make

15 for a successful school, and we evaluate them

16 on a regular basis.

17 So I think the Renewal Schools we now

18 have -- and the commissioner and I have just

19 discussed this. Only one school that's still

20 very struggling. We have one school that as

21 of last night is going to be closing, the

22 building is closing and reopening. And we

23 have several that are doing really quite

24 well. And this past Friday we hosted, for

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1 the rest of the state -- and I've met several

2 of the superintendents here today -- an open

3 house for promising practices to visit the

4 schools that have shown the biggest results.

5 But results are only going to happen

6 over time, it's not going to -- miracles

7 don't happen immediately. But for the first

8 time ever, particularly in the borough of the

9 Bronx, you have teachers that are rated

10 effective and highly effective in schools

11 that never had that. Because we have

12 teachers -- over 200 teachers applied to go

13 teach in these schools rather than come out

14 of these schools.

15 So I think we're on the move. We have

16 a curriculum that everyone is expected to

17 follow, but more importantly to me, great

18 leadership, teachers with lots of training,

19 and also this sense of energy and hope. It's

20 one thing to close a school; it's another

21 thing to say to a school -- and, you know,

22 Boys and Girls High, another school, new

23 principal, energy in that building is

24 palpable. People are excited. So to me, to

180

1 do something and to say to them, we believe

2 in you, we're going to give you the

3 resources, I think is crucial.

4 In terms of after-school programs, all

5 the middle schools in the City of New York

6 have -- all stand-alone middle schools have

7 after-school programs. We've been very clear

8 that we want the after-school programs to

9 encourage the arts, to encourage some kind of

10 academics, and also to have some kind of

11 sports component. But who is in what school

12 was very much left up to the principal and to

13 the CBO. And that means that there is a

14 communication, and there's a need for a CBO

15 to kind of tailor-make their program for

16 whatever the school needs or thinks that,

17 based on their data, they would want more of.

18 And I think also for a lot of parents,

19 it's a point of relief. And the reason we

20 did it in middle schools is because I think

21 that one of the most difficult grades to

22 teach -- and one of the most difficult ages,

23 period -- are 7th-graders. They have

24 everything on their plate and then some. So

181

1 by having a safe place for them to be after

2 school is really, really crucial.

3 The CBOs that are working with our

4 Renewal Schools are also being asked to train

5 more people so that we can expand in the

6 future. But I do think after-school programs

7 by and large have really enriched many of our

8 communities, and we continue to work with

9 outside partners to bring them into the fold.

10 The one thing I want to say about the

11 TCUs, one of the reasons it's hard to move

12 more quickly on this is that when you have

13 TCUs -- I'm thinking of PS 19 in Corona, for

14 example -- you have all these kids you have

15 to put somewhere while you're removing the

16 TCUs and building a school on that location.

17 Same thing in Brooklyn. We now have

18 TCUs -- PS 32, in Carroll Gardens -- but

19 where are we going to put the kids? So we

20 had to move kids from one building to another

21 to get the kids from the TCUs so the schools

22 can be built.

23 So that's really the only reason that

24 some of this is being held up.

182

1 And public charters, the one thing I

2 have to say about working with the charter

3 schools is that there are schools -- and in

4 many cases -- you know, it's parent choice.

5 I have been working much more closely with

6 charters and even I just did an art lesson in

7 a charter school, the Ascend Charter Schools,

8 because I had gone to visit them and I loved

9 what they had on the walls, but I wanted to

10 make sure they were using the arts more

11 fully. And we're working to different

12 degrees with different ones of them,

13 depending on what their skills are, but also

14 opening our schools to them for some of the

15 things that they can learn from us.

16 We have now something called Showcase

17 Schools where we're asking schools that are

18 working well together, where a collocated

19 campus is working well together, and in one

20 particular campus there's a District 75,

21 which is special education, a charter school,

22 and one of our district schools all working

23 together. And we want to show other people

24 how that can be done.

183

1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: But my question

2 was, what would the money aspect be if the

3 Governor's proposals on those charters -- how

4 does that affect you?

5 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: New York has to

6 get their fair share. And I believe strongly

7 that public education, as I see it, is

8 crucial to this democracy, and we have to

9 make that a priority.

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: It's always a

11 pleasure. We kept it to the time. And I

12 really thank you always for the tremendous,

13 tremendous dedication, commitment and just --

14 it's always exciting to be around you,

15 Carmen, because you're moving and you're

16 making things happen. I'm sorry my son is

17 graduating, because he really was part of

18 that sort-and-select era and isn't going to

19 be part of all these wonderful initiatives

20 like the computer science --

21 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Be happy he

22 graduated, Cathy. This is a good thing.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Well, that's

24 true. Yes, yes, yes. And he's doing very

184

1 beautifully. But I am a little sorry. He

2 was there at the height of the testing mania,

3 and I myself didn't see the damage that it

4 did until much later. It makes kids way too

5 anxious. And I think your approach is -- you

6 know, you know how I feel, and my colleagues

7 know how I feel. Like, you know, just a big

8 soldier in your army, a big fan. There's

9 always things we could do better, always

10 places that need attention --

11 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Absolutely.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: -- but, you

13 know, I think you've given such positive

14 leadership. And it's been a pleasure, a

15 pleasure, to work with you these past few

16 years.

17 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Thank you.

18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you.

19 Thank you, Chair.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

21 Senator Carl Marcellino, who's chair

22 of the Senate Education Committee.

23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Good afternoon,

24 Chancellor.

185

1 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Good afternoon.

2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: First, I want to

3 congratulate you. In my mind, you're doing a

4 hell of a job in the city. I taught in the

5 city, as you well know, for 20 years, and the

6 changes that have occurred over there over

7 the years with different mayors and different

8 philosophies, frankly I find your changes and

9 your philosophy more in line with what I

10 believe and what I think is positive and good

11 promotion for the schools and a good aspect

12 to the schools.

13 So I congratulate you and your staff

14 for doing an excellent job.

15 Now let me throw a hardball at you.

16 Some time ago, about maybe a year and a half

17 ago, Chancellor Zimpher of SUNY came to the

18 Education Committee and spoke -- I believe

19 you were there that day as well, and so was

20 Commissioner Elia. She mentioned the fact

21 that she spends about $70 million annually on

22 remedial classes for incoming freshmen.

23 That's time that these young people have to

24 spend not taking courses to move ahead but

186

1 just to catch up to where they are.

2 I listened and heard all your

3 statistics, and they sound great, but that

4 number still sticks in the back of my mind.

5 Are we addressing that number? Are we

6 reducing the cost of remedial education?

7 Because frankly I don't like the fact that

8 there is so much in the SUNY system that

9 exists. I don't think there should be

10 anything, frankly. But you've got to do what

11 you've got to do.

12 What are we doing to work on that

13 number and bring it down?

14 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, I absolutely

15 share the same concerns. And I will tell you

16 that several of the initiatives we put in

17 place are really for that specifically.

18 New York City is one of the few places

19 that has a college-readiness strategy, and

20 that is that we put an extra benchmark in

21 there, what do we think makes kids

22 college-ready. And that means that they are

23 able to do rigorous work, that they have

24 organizational skills -- which is one of the

187

1 biggest failing things that kids have when

2 they go to college, they don't know how to

3 work independently, they don't know how to

4 write.

5 So the things that we did in -- not

6 necessarily in the right order, but the first

7 thing we did -- in fact, it was the first

8 thing I asked my department to do -- was to

9 put together a high school Writing Scope and

10 Sequence, which we now institute in every

11 single high school in the City of New York,

12 because I thought writing was one of the

13 worst subjects that was being taught. And if

14 you can't write and you can't write in

15 different subject areas, then you can't be

16 successful in college.

17 So I do think that improving our

18 writing -- and when I go to high schools,

19 it's the first thing I look at -- is step

20 number one.

21 Step number two is part of the reason

22 why we've invested so much time and energy in

23 the AP courses. If you take AP courses in

24 high schools, you are more prepared to do the

188

1 rigorous work that college demands. It also

2 means, with the AP courses, it's not just

3 about a syllabus or a curriculum, it means

4 that all the teachers who teach AP courses

5 have to go back to school and be retrained.

6 Last year I went to the summer

7 training for the teachers who were going to

8 teach AP courses, and for many of them, they

9 haven't gone back to do this kind of work in

10 many, many years. So being able to be in a

11 school where those courses are being

12 offered -- and in many of our high-need

13 neighborhoods there were no AP courses at

14 all. So what is the expectation that these

15 kids can't do it?

16 So I think that's another thing that

17 we put in place. I think emphasizing

18 algebra, to me, is one of the things that --

19 I did some research, as did my team,

20 obviously, on what we found was going to be

21 the biggest indicator of success in college.

22 And we found that, again, organizational

23 skills, the ability to write -- the ability

24 to do well in algebra, so then you can have a

189

1 math sequence, was really one of the

2 important things. So that those are the

3 things that we put in place earlier on.

4 It's also part of the reason why we

5 think you need to read by the end of the

6 second grade. Third grade is not the right

7 benchmark, in my opinion, for reading,

8 because by the time you get into third grade

9 you have much harder content-area work. You

10 have to be able to read at the end of second

11 grade.

12 I think the other piece for college

13 success is that we have to educate families

14 as well as students of what's expected when

15 you get to college. And we've been doing a

16 lot more work starting in middle school about

17 what college can look like, should look

18 like -- like I said, including parents

19 letting students go on college tours so they

20 have an expectation that this is not just fun

21 and games. Often many parents whose

22 students are qualified, well, then they don't

23 go to college because their parents don't

24 want them to leave home. There's a lot of

190

1 work that has to be done on college-ready.

2 But also we've been meeting with the

3 colleges themselves and what is the

4 coursework that they also have to offer in a

5 way that's palatable so students, when they

6 go there, they have a wide range of topics,

7 but also taught in a way that also continues

8 the kind of teaching that we're doing in our

9 schools.

10 So I think there's a lot of work to be

11 done here, but I do think having a

12 college-ready benchmark -- when I visit

13 high schools, I'm not looking to see how many

14 kids are getting As, but how many kids are

15 getting As in very deep work, and I think

16 that's part of the work that we're trying to

17 do.

18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: The other morning

19 I was given a -- I know we met recently, but

20 it was subsequent to that -- I was given a

21 copy of an article that appeared in the

22 Daily News, January 29, 2017. I don't read

23 the Daily News, I read another paper called

24 Newsday. I don't believe that one either.

191

1 (Laughter.)

2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: But this

3 particular article talked about "Mayor de

4 Blasio's pre-kindergarten programs match lack

5 of diversity of New York City's highly

6 segregated school system." And the author, a

7 Ben Chapman, talks about data from the

8 2015-2016 school year analyzed by the

9 Daily News shows that 854 of the city's 1,861

10 pre-K programs were dominated -- the

11 statistic he uses is 70 percent or more -- by

12 a single race.

13 Now, we went through an awful lot and

14 I was -- it was major, when I was teaching,

15 about desegregating the schools and making

16 sure that there was diversity and every kid

17 got exposed to as many different groups and

18 individuals as they possibly could.

19 Are we going backwards here? Is

20 something going on here that we can deal

21 with?

22 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Absolutely --

23 absolutely not. Let me get my teacher voice

24 on this a little bit.

192

1 First and foremost, the pre-K parents,

2 rightly so, want whatever pre-K program is

3 closest to home. They're in a rush to get to

4 work, they have to do whatever they have to

5 do.

6 And the one thing I can say, that all

7 our pre-K programs are of the same quality.

8 All our teachers are being trained the same

9 way. Every teacher that teaches in a pre-K

10 program has to be retrained over the summer,

11 and all of them have been trained by us with

12 the same curriculum. They have a choice of

13 three curriculums. So whether you're taking

14 a pre-K in Harlem or you're taking a pre-K in

15 Carroll Gardens, you're going to have the

16 exact same curriculum with teachers who have

17 been trained the exact same way.

18 But I as a parent am not going to be

19 running to another part. So it's a matter of

20 applying. Parents apply -- this is parent

21 choice, the same way you can go to a private

22 public, parochial school, charter school, you

23 can go to any pre-K. You have an application

24 process, you fill it out, and generally --

193

1 this year I think people got one of their

2 first top choices pretty much across the

3 city. So this is about parent choice.

4 Then what happens after pre-K,

5 depending on the seat availability, if that's

6 your zone school, you stay in that school.

7 But if you want to go to another school, then

8 if there's space available -- if you want to

9 stay in the school that you're in pre-K but

10 you're not zoned, you can apply for space

11 availability.

12 So I actually do not agree with this.

13 I think if you're counting faces, then it's

14 true. If you're counting parent choice, it's

15 totally different.

16 So I think, to me, the diversity is

17 also -- we are now taking more students with

18 IEPs in our pre-K programs, we're taking more

19 students who are English language learners in

20 our pre-K programs. Diversity has many

21 faces.

22 SENATOR KRUEGER: I just want to jump

23 in. This is exactly what I told Carl when he

24 showed me the article.

194

1 (Laughter.)

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you, Liz.

3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: So we can get rid

4 of this piece of paper.

5 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: No, and Carl just

6 wants to get a rise out of me, I know. So

7 that's it.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: He ran a school

9 with 6,000 kids and not pick up a few --

10 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, he was a

11 high school person, so we'll forgive him for

12 that.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: There was 6,000

14 of us there, in one building.

15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: We had 6600 kids

16 in that school, and we ran a program from

17 6:00 in the morning till 6:00 at night. So

18 it was an interesting time frame.

19 But again, I thank you for your

20 efforts. And if you would do me -- I know

21 your husband is going to get mad at me, but

22 I'm one who would be wishing that you would

23 not be retiring, that you'd be hanging

24 around, because the -- and I don't mean just

195

1 hanging around. You do a great job, and you

2 do a good job. And the parents and the

3 children of the City of New York are better

4 for your attendance and better for your work.

5 So thank you very much for what you do.

6 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Thank you. And my

7 husband thanks you too.

8 (Laughter.)

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

10 We've been joined by Senator

11 Velmanette Montgomery and Senator Leroy

12 Comrie.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS: Hi,

14 Chancellor. Thank you for coming to Albany.

15 First let me say I'm very pleased to

16 hear about the Career and Technical Education

17 programs that you're looking to expand. I'm

18 even happier to hear that you're looking to

19 bring some to Brooklyn and Staten Island.

20 And however I can work with you to make that

21 happen, I'd be glad to, because it's

22 something that I truly believe in. We need

23 to invest in vocational training, and these

24 are great careers that people who may not be

196

1 fit for college, may not want to attend

2 college, have an option to get a great career

3 in their life based on some of these

4 vocational programs. So thank you again for

5 thinking of Staten Island and Brooklyn for

6 those programs.

7 I have just a few short questions.

8 One is regarding the Contracts for Excellence

9 funding. The 2016-2017 allocation for the

10 City of New York was around $531 million.

11 The proposal from the City DOE was to

12 allocate about $7.5 million to Staten Island

13 public schools, which represents only

14 1.42 percent of the funding, despite that the

15 population that Staten Island represents in

16 our schools, with 60,000 students, is

17 6 percent.

18 You know, this is sort of the same

19 fight we have sometimes with the city with

20 the hospitals funding and, you know, trying

21 to get our fair share in terms of making it

22 proportional to the population.

23 Our students in District 31 have some

24 of the highest percentages of students with

197

1 Individual Education Plans; it's actually

2 roughly 25 percent.

3 So my question really is, can you

4 revisit this and see how maybe we can

5 increase the funding for Staten Island and

6 try to get closer to what the population

7 level would be?

8 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, I'm going to

9 let -- but I'm also going to preface it just

10 a little bit. We have looked -- I mean, I

11 spend a lot of time in Staten Island, and we

12 have looked at Staten Island from the lenses

13 of some of the specific concerns. So we've

14 increased SAPAS workers out on Staten Island

15 due to some of the specific issues.

16 One of the other things that Staten

17 Island is really becoming a trend-setter for,

18 and I thank the borough president for that,

19 is your work with your universities is

20 particularly meaningful. Your three

21 universities out there are working

22 extensively in our high schools out there.

23 And also you have a tremendous amount of

24 learning partner schools out there, which

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1 also increase funding through different

2 sources.

3 So it may not be all Foundation money

4 or categorical money, but there is a lot of

5 money going through other streams. But I'll

6 let --

7 DOE CFO ORLANDO: Hi. The C for E

8 money --

9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Could you, just

10 for the record, reintroduce yourself, the

11 gentleman --

12 DOE CFO ORLANDO: Oh, sure, I'm sorry.

13 Hi. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Raymond

14 Orlando. I'm the chief financial officer of

15 the New York City Department of Education.

16 And delighted to be here. Glad it's not

17 snowy.

18 The C for E money you've been asking

19 about, there are requirements on how it gets

20 spent. When we look to distribute it across

21 the system, sometimes Staten Island doesn't

22 appear to get its fair share because the

23 level of need based on the requirements that

24 the funding comes with are greater in other

199

1 areas of the city. So that limits our

2 ability to super -- use it flexibly, I guess.

3 So we will of course be happy to

4 continue to look at it and work with you on

5 that, for sure.

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS: And if you

7 could, I guess, maybe share some of the

8 criteria that you're looking at or that --

9 and what the numbers are, or statistics, that

10 would be really helpful.

11 DOE CFO ORLANDO: Yeah, sure. We'd be

12 happy to.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS: Because

14 that's one of the main issues that our CEC

15 has brought up to us. And we just had a

16 legislative breakfast with them last week,

17 and the Staten Island PTA. It's one of the

18 biggest issues.

19 The other one was also school safety.

20 They've probably spoken to you directly -- I

21 know you've visited Staten Island a few times

22 and met with them -- but regarding having a

23 school safety officer in every -- at least

24 every elementary school having two in each

200

1 elementary -- that's one of the requests that

2 they've put in. As well as locking school

3 doors during the workday.

4 Does the city have a position on

5 either of those?

6 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, we really

7 work much more independently based on the

8 individual school incidents. So there's

9 obviously some schools that have more

10 incidents than others. But again, I'm happy

11 to discuss individual things on Staten

12 Island.

13 The one thing I have to say is that

14 we've also encouraged Staten Island in

15 particular, but also other places, there they

16 can apply for grants that will give them

17 money above and beyond what they would get

18 from us. Because for some things they're

19 really eligible for -- I'm working with two

20 of your schools right now specifically. But

21 I'm happy to have a meeting just on

22 Staten Island issues, because I really go out

23 there all the time.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS: That would

201

1 be great. I will follow up on that.

2 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Yeah, okay. Thank

3 you.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS: Last year

5 I brought up the issue of penmanship and

6 cursive.

7 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Yes.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS: And I've

9 heard, actually, that you have become very

10 supportive -- or maybe have always been

11 supportive -- of penmanship and bringing up

12 cursive. I think it's something really

13 important that our students should be

14 learning -- how do they sign a bank check,

15 how do they have their own signature, you

16 know, in the world. I mean, they need that

17 in the -- you know, when they enter the

18 career force, when they open up a bank

19 account, et cetera.

20 I've heard that you did write a letter

21 or that you are expressing that you would

22 like to see this happen now.

23 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: No, no, no.

24 There's no such thing "I'd like to see it

202

1 happen." It has to happen.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS: It has to

3 happen, okay. That's even better.

4 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Let me be very

5 clear. When I went to a town hall meeting I

6 guess a year and a half ago, parents brought

7 up that they would like to see cursive back

8 in schools. And I spent a lot of years in

9 parochial school, so I have the Palmer method

10 down pat. And I don't know why it went out

11 of favor. But I do understand that people

12 felt there were other things that they

13 thought were more important.

14 But the reality is if you look -- the

15 first thing you look at, if you look at a

16 child's handwriting, and they're inventing

17 their own script -- which is what they are --

18 then it doesn't look right and I worry that

19 they won't be able to sign their pension

20 checks at some point.

21 So this year in September we put out a

22 curriculum for how to teach cursive writing

23 in all our third grades in New York City. So

24 it behooves parents and different schools to

203

1 ensure that this is happening. But the

2 directive is this has to happen.

3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS: So -- but

4 it is up to the principal, then, to decide if

5 they implement it?

6 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, it's up to

7 principals with strong urging from their

8 superintendents, who are getting strong

9 urgings from me. And when I go to schools, I

10 look for the cursive writing starting in

11 third grade.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MALLIOTAKIS: I really

13 appreciate you doing that, and I look forward

14 to making sure that my schools are all doing

15 it. Thank you.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: It's a big

17 positive. It's been very frustrating for me,

18 another thing that Joel Klein never focused

19 on and we're still paying the price for it

20 years later. But Carmen has made a big

21 difference.

22 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: You know, there

23 are certain things -- we brought back social

24 studies with a vengeance. I love social

204

1 studies. I don't know how we have let it go.

2 And in September of this year we put out a

3 social studies curriculum, K through eighth

4 grade -- the high school is coming -- and it

5 has a total scope and sequence, with all the

6 materials for teachers. It's in every single

7 school in New York City. And our expectation

8 is that no one will graduate fourth grade

9 without knowing the American Revolution. No

10 one will graduate fifth grade without knowing

11 things about the Civil War. We've done the

12 same thing with the STEM curriculum. It's

13 all in writing so -- also for teachers, that

14 they have access to what -- they shouldn't

15 have to reinvent their world. We should be

16 able to help them, give them the materials,

17 and then they can take it off from there.

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

19 Chancellor, it's so great to have you

20 here, and I admire your energy and your

21 enthusiasm and your passion, and I know you

22 help so many children every day.

23 I did have a couple of questions,

24 though, and the first one has to do with the

205

1 city school aid. What is the city's

2 contribution toward the city school aid?

3 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: That's why I

4 brought my financial expert.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: That's why you

6 brought him. He's the number cruncher.

7 DOE CFO ORLANDO: Sure. In the

8 current year, city funding for the Department

9 of Education is $16.8 billion.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Sixteen-point-eight

11 billion dollars. Does that figure include

12 pensions and debt service?

13 DOE CFO ORLANDO: That includes all

14 expenses such as pension and debt service,

15 yes.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, thank you.

17 So what is the city's contribution in

18 operating aid without the pensions and debt

19 service included?

20 (Pause.)

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I have to think

22 it's more than half.

23 DOE CFO ORLANDO: I'm sorry?

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Off the top of

206

1 my head, it has to be about half. But it's

2 not for me to answer.

3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Cut it out,

4 Cathy.

5 DOE CFO ORLANDO: I apologize. Please

6 give me a moment.

7 (Pause.)

8 DOE CFO ORLANDO: Okay, $17.6 billion,

9 with 11.6 -- I'm sorry, wrong year --

10 $11.1 billion.

11 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Seventeen-point-six

12 billion with 11.1 billion?

13 DOE CFO ORLANDO: I'm sorry, that was

14 the wrong year. I apologize.

15 In the current year, the city funding

16 is -- without the pension and the debt

17 service, is $11.1 billion.

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay, I see. So

19 that's quite a difference, of $5.7 billion,

20 then, for the debt service and the pensions.

21 What is the exact number, if you could

22 give it to us, of the state contribution to

23 the New York City school aid?

24 DOE CFO ORLANDO: State funding in the

207

1 current year, $10.9 billion.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Does that figure

3 include the $300 million for pre-K from the

4 state?

5 DOE CFO ORLANDO: I believe it

6 includes all state funding.

7 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. Thank you.

8 The reason I ask that is when the

9 mayor was here, he said that the state aid

10 portion of the New York City aid had declined

11 to 37 percent and the city contribution had

12 actually increased to 57 percent. You know,

13 and he stated that three times.

14 I think that he was including the

15 pensions and the debt service, do you

16 believe, in that figure, not operating aid?

17 DOE CFO ORLANDO: I believe that's the

18 total cost of expenses at the Department of

19 Education.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. Just to

21 really clarify and get to the nuts and bolts.

22 I wanted to ask -- and, Chancellor,

23 you were talking about the Renewal Schools.

24 It's about $400 million that the city has

208

1 invested in the Renewal School program, is

2 that correct?

3 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Yes.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: And I know Senator

5 Marcellino had asked about this somewhat.

6 But with Renewal Schools, I know you're very

7 enthusiastic about them. But one of the

8 things that I find concerning -- and these

9 are based on your own reports that Education

10 has put together, the Education Department.

11 But there are many schools with college

12 readiness in the single digits. And we talk

13 about students being prepared for the

14 workforce, students being prepared to go to

15 college.

16 And for example, your own reports show

17 in 2016 a Brooklyn high school where

18 83 percent of the kids graduate, but less

19 than 2 percent are deemed to be

20 college-ready. There was another school, in

21 the Bronx, where 76 percent of the students

22 received a diploma, even though just

23 4 percent are college-ready.

24 So one of my questions is, why is

209

1 there such a disparity between the graduation

2 rates and the college-readiness rates in

3 these schools?

4 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, first of

5 all, you have to understand that most of the

6 Renewal Schools, the rates when we started

7 were extremely low. But so was, in many

8 cases, the teaching itself.

9 So what we're trying to do in these

10 schools -- and I can certainly give you

11 specific examples -- is make sure that the

12 classroom instruction is done better, that

13 the expectation is higher, and that we in

14 New York City are one of the few places that

15 actually evaluate our kids based on

16 college-ready.

17 We could just sit back and say we have

18 an 83 percent graduation rate -- and this was

19 true nationally, but particularly in New York

20 City over the past few years, what we found

21 is we were getting kids into college and they

22 weren't staying after freshman year in

23 college. The drop-out rate, first year of

24 college, was very, very high.

210

1 So that's the evaluation that we're

2 doing for college-ready. How are we ensuring

3 that we're getting kids not only graduating,

4 but once they get to college, that they're

5 doing much better and that they're staying

6 in?

7 The other thing we've asked people to

8 start doing now is keeping cohorts

9 statistics. I was just in a school that

10 you're talking about, and they're telling us

11 that their tenth-grade cohort and their

12 eleventh-grade cohort is already much higher

13 than their twelfth-year cohort, because all

14 the initiatives that we started three years

15 ago hopefully will start showing results, but

16 they're not going to show results overnight.

17 And we want to make sure that we don't also

18 give false expectations to our students.

19 So there's a lot of work to be done, I

20 totally agree. But we are monitoring the

21 high school grade as well as are they ready

22 for college.

23 And we have now started a program in

24 New York City, particularly in our Renewal

211

1 Schools, where we're encouraging all high

2 schools to start having freshmen and

3 sophomores in college come back once a month

4 to their high schools to start talking about

5 how hard college is, what you need to know to

6 be able to succeed in college. We're calling

7 them Mentors in Place, and this is one of the

8 things we hope will do it. But you can't

9 undo many years of things not working

10 overnight, so it's one step at a time. But

11 if you look at our Renewal Schools -- again,

12 a lot of work to be done. The graduation

13 rate in our Renewal Schools this year is

14 4 percent higher than the rest of the city.

15 And that means they had a long way to go, but

16 we're laser-focused on making sure that

17 what's happening in the classrooms is what's

18 going to get the kids ready for there.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Great. Because we

20 want every child to have that opportunity to

21 be successful.

22 You know, I keep seeing the mayor

23 announcing he's closing more and more of the

24 Renewal Schools. And I'm wondering if you

212

1 can assess what hasn't worked with the

2 Renewal School program at these schools that

3 are being closed, including the Bronx junior

4 high school that was put on SED's

5 receivership list.

6 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Look, closing the

7 school is never done lightly. But there are

8 generally three different reasons for closing

9 the school. Number one, the enrollment is

10 too low.

11 For example, we have a school with

12 67 students. There's no way, with 67

13 students, you're going to be able to offer a

14 program that is good. You're not going to

15 have an arts program, a gym program. It just

16 doesn't do it financially. So I would say

17 the vast majority of school closures have to

18 do with school size.

19 The other -- and particularly the one

20 that you just mentioned, are there other

21 schools in the immediate vicinity that will

22 offer the kids a better opportunity? And in

23 this particular case, there are at least

24 three middle schools -- because all parents,

213

1 when we close the school -- this is not a

2 long, drawn-out phaseout, it's a closure --

3 have a choice of three to five schools that

4 they can choose from to go to as parents. We

5 are doing open houses in these schools so

6 parents will then have a choice, as well as

7 students, to go to a place where they will

8 have a better chance of success.

9 So we don't close lightly. But when

10 we close, we close with options for parents

11 and an opportunity for the students to have

12 more choices of what they can do.

13 And I'm never sorry for having given

14 the schools a chance to succeed. But if you

15 don't succeed the way we think you should,

16 then that's what's going to happen.

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

18 Just switching to one last topic, the

19 State Education Department in January posted

20 its latest Violent and Disruptive Incident

21 Report. In the key category of serious

22 incidents, it shows a rise of nearly 6

23 percent, up from 15,934 incidents in 2014-'15

24 to 16,851 in '15-'16.

214

1 So within that category, forcible sex

2 offenses rose 90 percent; assault with

3 serious physical injury, 48 percent. So I'm

4 just wondering, what is the city doing to

5 address this situation so that it can ensure

6 the safety of the students?

7 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, first of

8 all, we're doing several things. We have

9 really instituted restorative practices in

10 many of our schools, and we have done it in a

11 very programmatic way. We started with

12 schools that had the highest number of

13 incidents, the highest number of suspensions.

14 We are also retraining teachers and

15 administrators on how to ensure that there is

16 a good school climate. It also goes to the

17 issue -- we've hired many more guidance

18 counselors for many of our schools. And also

19 in working very closely with the NYPD,

20 particularly with school safety officers,

21 they are now receiving an additional two

22 weeks of training beyond what they used to

23 get on just how to deescalate issues and

24 create a climate of trust in a building,

215

1 versus them just being there as quasi-police

2 officers.

3 So there's a lot of things. We look

4 at those numbers on a regular basis -- I can

5 almost tell you the top 10 schools off the

6 top of my head. But also we're making sure

7 that all incidences are reported. And I

8 think that's part of what we're doing, and

9 what kind of incidents rise to the top. And

10 I think that is part of our job.

11 It's certainly something we're very

12 much aware of, and we're working very closely

13 on it.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: What happens to

15 these students when they commit something

16 like a sex offense or, you know, forcible

17 touching, serious physical injury? Are they

18 suspended from school? Or how do you handle

19 that?

20 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: It depends on the

21 incident, it depends on the issues, and it

22 depends on the age. We do still have

23 suspensions in our schools. We have

24 suspension centers where students go to, they

216

1 don't stay at home. They have a full

2 curriculum in their suspension centers.

3 But it very much depends on the

4 infraction, the severity of the infraction,

5 and how many incidents they've had prior to

6 that one.

7 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: And what happens to

8 the students who are victims of such

9 incidents? You know, for example, if they

10 are assaulted somehow, what does the school

11 do to address them? Because I would think

12 that they would need some kind of special

13 attention if something bad happens to them.

14 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: I mean, we have a

15 whole protocol in place in terms of how

16 guidance counselors are used, social workers,

17 if that's the key. We also work closely,

18 like I said, with NYPD if it's a critical

19 activity.

20 But we're very much aware of the

21 schools that need more support. And in that

22 case, perhaps more safety officers. But we

23 find what works best for us is more training

24 of staff on deescalating issues.

217

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Good. Thank you.

2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Can I follow up

3 on your question? I know I'm not in line --

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Well, in a minute.

5 It's the Assembly's turn.

6 ASSEMBLYMAN BRINDISI: I just want to

7 note that we've been joined by Assemblywoman

8 Rebecca Seawright and Assemblywoman Shelley

9 Mayer.

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: You know, when

11 you see that there -- some years we've had

12 like every member here screaming. When

13 people aren't here and they're over in

14 session, it's because they're happy, Carmen.

15 So that's good. You know, that's good.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Let's let the chair

17 of Education follow up on your answer.

18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Just a quickie.

19 When I was in school, we had the NYPD

20 assigned to the building. We had two patrol

21 officers, one inside and one outside. They

22 rotated. But after a while, everybody knew

23 their name, every kid in the school knew who

24 they were, and they made it their business to

218

1 know every kid in the school. So if we had a

2 problem, we could deal with the -- if it

3 required NYPD, there was somebody there.

4 What is the current caseload for your

5 guidance counselors?

6 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, it depends

7 on -- the two districts I talked about --

8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: {Unintelligible}

9 high school.

10 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: I can't tell you

11 that right off the top of my head, but I will

12 get it.

13 But in terms of the NYPD, we work hand

14 in hand with them on almost all issues, so --

15 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Are they assigned

16 to the building? Is there someone --

17 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Only if they're

18 called. That becomes a 911 call.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

20 Senator Montgomery.

21 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank you.

22 Good afternoon, Chancellor. It's a

23 pleasure to see you, and thank you for your

24 report.

219

1 I would just like to take a minute of

2 my time to say to you that last Saturday I

3 attended one of the CEC meetings in one of

4 the districts -- District 13 in my district,

5 and it was -- the meeting was held at one of

6 the Urban Assembly Middle School sites where

7 they have the most wonderful program of

8 hydroponic gardens. Absolutely amazing. And

9 those young people in that program are hoping

10 to build out to the point where they can

11 provide produce for the entire school. So

12 that's so exciting.

13 And I also visited last week Madiba,

14 which is a middle school in District 16.

15 Again, it was -- I was so impressed.

16 So I just want you to know that each

17 time I'm in a school and I have such a

18 wonderful experience as I did at Madiba and

19 at the hydroponic programming, the Urban

20 Assembly school, it just makes me so much

21 more hopeful. And so -- and both of those

22 were middle schools.

23 With the Urban Assembly, as you know,

24 there is a group of those schools, and this

220

1 one happened to have a relationship with the

2 Harbor School because they're in the same

3 group. And so I'm looking forward,

4 obviously, to the Harbor Middle School

5 perhaps being in District 15. That's the

6 dream that I have.

7 But the one issue that I would raise

8 with you is that we still have not seemingly

9 been able to build a direct pipeline between

10 the schools, especially I guess the CTE

11 schools, as you would say, and the high

12 schools that they would be automatically

13 feeders for. So I'm hopeful that you can

14 work on that particular issue. I've had so

15 many problems, especially related to Harbor

16 High School.

17 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, thank you.

18 Because I'm particularly -- I'm proud of all

19 our schools, but the Urban Assembly schools

20 have done a really special job. The Law and

21 Justice on Adams Street is spectacular. I

22 feel I'm the godmother of that school. I

23 helped start it, with Richard Kahan.

24 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Yes.

221

1 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: But the other

2 thing you should know, with the hydroponics,

3 that normally there's hydroponics, and a lot

4 of those are affiliated with Cornell

5 University. They also have tilapia

6 hatcheries. They're growing their own

7 tilapia, because it's a good way to make the

8 food available. And some of the hydroponics

9 have already started farm markets for their

10 parents. One of our Renewal Schools in the

11 Bronx, 154, raises chickens, has eggs. And

12 if parents come to Saturday workshops, they

13 get to take vegetables and eggs home.

14 So there's a lot of things that we're

15 doing that are really kind of off the beaten

16 path. But I'm glad you found those schools.

17 And, you know, my first six months as the

18 chancellor, I only visited middle schools.

19 That's all I visited because my belief system

20 truly is that if we can make our middle

21 schools successful, the rest is a piece of

22 cake. Or almost a piece of cake.

23 SENATOR MONTGOMERY: Thank you. And

24 just lastly, the Early College Program. I'm

222

1 just so concerned that very often when

2 something really works well, we take it for

3 granted and then we don't pay attention and

4 it goes away.

5 So I really want to stress my support

6 for that, and hopefully we can make that more

7 part of what young people in our high schools

8 have access to.

9 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Thank you. Those

10 P-TECHs, okay.

11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Leroy Comrie.

12 SENATOR COMRIE: Good afternoon,

13 Chancellor. Happy Valentine's.

14 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Good afternoon.

15 SENATOR COMRIE: I want to just concur

16 with all of my colleagues on the praises that

17 they have given you this morning. It's been

18 well deserved. It's been a pleasure to have

19 you as chancellor, and I have enjoyed our

20 working relationship. It's been honest and

21 constructive. And your staff has never

22 hesitated to get back to me. And you've been

23 a breath of fresh air for educators all over

24 this country, and I would hope that -- you

223

1 know, I would second Senator Marcellino in

2 that I don't really want you to leave, but

3 you deserve to do whatever you want to do at

4 this point.

5 I would hope that you have a strong

6 hand in picking your successor, and I would

7 hope that that happens as well. And it's my

8 personal hope that you find someone that is

9 as dedicated to making sure that a very

10 complicated system is working and better, as

11 you have done with the system here. And I

12 just want to congratulate you for your work

13 and always staying on the ground, always

14 going to meetings, always communicating with

15 the public and knowing directly what happens.

16 I was honored to go to a history fair

17 this weekend at PS 360, the new school in

18 St. Albans that is in a former -- it's in the

19 former PSAO building. And the school is well

20 done. There was such an excitement from all

21 over the district of participation. And it's

22 truly an impact from your influence in the

23 schools.

24 So I want to congratulate you for the

224

1 Single Shepherd Initiative. I think that's

2 great. I really want to congratulate you for

3 lowering the acrimony and the vitriol between

4 yourself and the teachers union. I think

5 that's made a strong progress in making

6 things happen. The Renewal School program

7 has been great, not only August Martin, which

8 is doing a lot better than anyone ever

9 thought. Martin Van Buren and I.S. 8, my

10 alma mater, are both schools that were in the

11 Renewal program. I.S. 8 is out of the

12 program now and is in better shape. And

13 Martin Van Buren, as you know, has a

14 principal that is dedicated to making sure

15 that the school is well.

16 So I just wanted to ask you for your

17 help on one thing before you leave, and

18 that's to congratulate you and the mayor on

19 the TCU program to get rid of TCUs, the

20 temporary units. But there's one temporary

21 unit that houses handicapped students in

22 P.S. 134 in Hollis. And I would hope that

23 you have a strong hand in making sure that

24 that difficult relocation is done or at least

225

1 planned before the end of your tenure. And I

2 just hope that you can make sure that you're

3 involved in it. Lorraine Grillo is great.

4 It's really a space problem. We're trying to

5 find the proper space to house them.

6 But that TCU is just in terrible

7 shape, and it's dealing with severely

8 handicapped, mostly wheelchair-bound students

9 at P.S. 134. So if you could please look

10 into that.

11 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: I will certainly

12 look into that.

13 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.

14 And just the final thing that I wanted

15 to talk to you about, the Brother's Keeper

16 program, do you think that we'll be able to

17 keep that as a sustainable program? And how

18 do you see that happening?

19 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, I see it

20 happening in several ways. You have given us

21 funding, and we appreciate it. I think

22 having the decisions made locally is really

23 important because not all superintendents in

24 districts want to use it the same way.

226

1 I do think the mentoring component to

2 it is crucial. I think also the recruitment

3 of more men of color to work in our schools

4 is very important. We've already done a lot

5 of that this year.

6 I think also My Brother's Keeper is

7 working to make sure that some of the

8 curriculum goals are met. So I think it's a

9 local decision, there's a committee in each

10 district that has decided how to use it. I

11 know one of the districts in the Bronx, for

12 example, is using it to have internships with

13 some of our cultural institutions.

14 But I'm happy to share with you in

15 writing what the different districts across

16 the city are doing and how we can do it. And

17 then we're also going to get them together to

18 share it with each other, so they can take

19 ideas from each other's work.

20 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you. And I

21 will promise you to do everything I can to

22 work to make sure that you get the full

23 funding that the system needs, and hopefully

24 we can finish the Campaign for Fiscal Equity

227

1 payment to the schools so programs like

2 Brother's Keeper can be made sustainable.

3 And I just want to again thank you for

4 your service. Thank you for bringing the

5 Department of Education to a better level and

6 a much more amenable level that everyone can

7 impact and be involved in the system.

8 Thank you.

9 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Boy, you guys

10 really got the Valentine's Day spirit here.

11 I'm feeling very good.

12 (Laughter.)

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: We have like 30

14 more people testifying, so --

15 ASSEMBLYMAN BRINDISI: Thank you,

16 Chancellor. I believe we have --

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: And I should say

18 the chancellor hasn't had -- Pete Lopez is

19 our new ranking member on the committee and

20 is a very knowledgeable and thoughtful

21 member, so we're happy he's here.

22 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Commissioner,

23 thank you. And thank you for your

24 perseverance as well.

228

1 Just a quick question. And again,

2 much of my region is rural, and I'm trying to

3 draw parallels between rural and inner city.

4 And as I look at demographics, high-need/low

5 wealth cuts across all geographic boundaries.

6 I guess my question for you -- and I

7 saw in your testimony you spoke briefly about

8 the aid formula. My main concern is around

9 three drivers of cost -- poverty, second

10 language, and special ed. And I guess my

11 question for you is, with the formula, do you

12 feel that the formula emphasizes those

13 categories sufficiently to assist you with

14 your mission?

15 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: I'm sorry --

16 DOE CFO ORLANDO: We're talking about

17 the state Foundation Aid formula?

18 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Yes.

19 DOE CFO ORLANDO: Yes, we believe that

20 the state Foundation Aid formula, as

21 currently composed, addressing the

22 substantial needs that different districts

23 have, is important to maintain.

24 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: And so my

229

1 question, again, on those three cost

2 drivers -- special education, second

3 language, poverty -- does the formula weight

4 need to be changed to be a little more

5 aggressive on those fronts?

6 DOE CFO ORLANDO: I guess it's --

7 it's -- the funding -- the funding level

8 is -- it's important that additional funding

9 that comes gets run through the Foundation

10 Aid formula. To the extent that the

11 Foundation Aid formula is better reflective

12 of needs in special education, English

13 language learners, and poverty, we should be

14 using the best data available. So any and

15 all attempts to do that, we would of course

16 be supportive of.

17 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you.

18 Second question, quickly -- and again,

19 this gets back to the issue of poverty in

20 particular. And we heard reference to the

21 Brother's Keeper program, which I support. I

22 look at similar programs -- Liberty

23 Partnership, even Head Start -- and I guess

24 my question for you and your mission, are we

230

1 putting enough emphasis financially around

2 wrap -- with wraparound services, and can we

3 do more or should we be doing more to assist

4 you outside of the classroom as well as

5 inside?

6 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Well, I think, for

7 example -- and it's not an easy answer -- but

8 I would say with poverty in particular, what

9 we have found has made a real difference

10 certainly in New York City, and it would go

11 to any area, is the pre-K program. To the

12 degree that that could be expanded across the

13 state -- because it's not just about students

14 being in a safe place at a younger age, it's

15 about the ability of parents to go back to

16 work.

17 I mean, one of the unexpected

18 consequences when we've interviewed parents

19 who have students in pre-K, many of them are

20 now going back to work knowing that they have

21 their children in a free situation that's

22 done well.

23 So I think in terms of one of the

24 things that you might want to handle that

231

1 way, that's one of them.

2 I think when you're talking about

3 special education, you know, not everything

4 is equal and some people need more than

5 others. And if you have a special needs

6 child who needs occupational therapy, who

7 needs extra speech services, the formula to

8 ensure that those children have those

9 services I think is important. And I think

10 that's one of the things that we're talking

11 about.

12 And I think when it comes to English

13 language learners -- and I'm sure that the

14 commissioner mentioned this as well -- that

15 we have more and more students coming into

16 our schools at an older age who may be coming

17 from places where they don't have, for

18 example, prior schooling. So how do you help

19 those children acclimate to school and give

20 them the resources they need?

21 So I think any formula has to take

22 into account, to some degree, that there are

23 special needs for special students at special

24 times. And, you know, I think that's

232

1 something that we'll all struggle with.

2 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you,

3 Chancellor.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Just quickly, I

5 think we're ready to wrap up. Were there any

6 other questions?

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: No, I have a few

8 more, thank you.

9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Okay, that's

10 fine.

11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Hi, Chancellor.

12 Actually, most of my questions were answered.

13 So just to clarify, you just answered the

14 Assemblymember that the city would not

15 support the Governor's change in education

16 formula as he proposed it in his budget.

17 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Right.

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: And it would be a

19 negative for the City of New York, as you

20 understand it.

21 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Correct.

22 SENATOR KRUEGER: The Governor also

23 proposes a merger of the various UPK funding

24 streams. I assume that is a positive for the

233

1 City of New York, at least in administrative

2 simplicity.

3 DOE CFO ORLANDO: We're all for

4 consolidation, provided that the funding

5 level doesn't go down.

6 SENATOR KRUEGER: And that was my part

7 two of the question, because he's already

8 also proposed, I believe, a reduction for ed.

9 Can you tell me what that impact would be?

10 DOE CFO ORLANDO: Sure. Approximately

11 $35 million less, potentially, depending on

12 how it's implemented. But yes, you can't

13 consolidate and then reduce. That doesn't

14 work for us.

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: That's what I

16 thought also. Thank you.

17 And you also earlier answered the

18 question that no, you haven't received your

19 Smart Bond money approval yet. Do you get

20 any sense from state SED what the timeline

21 is? Because you have all these goals of what

22 you need to do with the money, but you need

23 the money.

24 DOE CFO ORLANDO: I am ever hopeful

234

1 that it will be shortly.

2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Do you have a basis

3 in fact for that belief?

4 DOE CFO ORLANDO: I do not have one at

5 this time.

6 SENATOR KRUEGER: We're just all

7 optimists.

8 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: But maybe after

9 today we will.

10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Maybe after today.

11 And how much was the city's money that

12 you had put in a plan for?

13 DOE CFO ORLANDO: Approximately

14 $783 million.

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: And you would need

16 that money in order to, one, get rid of those

17 mobile classrooms --

18 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Absolutely.

19 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- that everyone

20 hates.

21 DOE CFO ORLANDO: It supports the

22 capital program of the department, including

23 the elimination of TCUs. The 400-odd million

24 dollars.

235

1 SENATOR KRUEGER: So we all want to

2 lobby hard to get every school district the

3 money that they have requested and are no

4 doubt hoping for desperately.

5 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Yes.

6 DOE CFO ORLANDO: For sure.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: What's the

8 number-one thing we could do in the budget

9 this year that would help the New York City

10 school system?

11 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: I think really

12 listening carefully to what our priorities

13 were today, and to ensure that we don't go

14 backwards, that we can continue to go

15 forwards. And that the fair school funding

16 that we're entitled to, that we get as much

17 of it as possible.

18 Want to answer that, Ray?

19 DOE CFO ORLANDO: Sure. I would just

20 say that the Foundation Aid formula is vital

21 to us, and that needs to continue. And that

22 the level of resources that the state

23 provides to us needs to return to the levels

24 that it had been at before the recession.

236

1 Historically, the state had

2 provided -- before the recession in

3 2007-2008, the state provided about

4 42 percent of the budget of the Department of

5 Education. It's down to 37 percent. The

6 city's share during the same period has grown

7 from 47 percent to 57 percent. So the city

8 is shouldering a much larger burden and a

9 much larger share of the Department of

10 Education's expenses vis-a-vis the state.

11 And the state itself, while we've been

12 grateful for the increases we've seen over

13 the last few years, they haven't made up for

14 the cut years, ultimately. And we're still

15 not where we were before the recession. So

16 ultimately, you know, the city is investing

17 in our students at a much greater level

18 today, and we need the state to step up and

19 join us and do its part. Between fiscal year

20 '15 and '18, the city's contribution has

21 grown by over $3 billion to the Department of

22 Education's budget, and the state's has only

23 grown by a billion and a half.

24 If I could leave you with one thought,

237

1 it would be we need more money to make this

2 go.

3 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: I also want to say

4 that in addition to money, since I've gotten

5 into this job three years ago, I've been

6 asking for the movement on the CTE licensing.

7 And we really need that in order to keep that

8 promise that that be done sooner rather than

9 later. Because we have an opportunity to

10 graduate students into fields that are

11 desperate for people to hire, and that is

12 keeping us from doing that.

13 So to the degree that we can move that

14 sooner rather than later, that would be very

15 much appreciated.

16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you. And

17 thank you for the clarification on the dollar

18 numbers, because there are some people in

19 this town who seem to be under the impression

20 that New York City has been pulling out its

21 share of public education funding in

22 relationship to the state, and I appreciate

23 your clarifying it.

24 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: And if you think

238

1 about all our new Equity and Excellence

2 issues, just those alone, we have had to find

3 money to do it, and yet they're valuable

4 enough, and serve as a model for other cities

5 who may want to follow us, that this is

6 something worth doing. So we almost see

7 ourselves as a research area to try new

8 things, and then we'll share whatever we have

9 with anyone else who needs it or wants it.

10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

11 (Discussion off the record.)

12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Senator Savino.

13 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you, Senator

14 Krueger.

15 Thank you, Chancellor FariÒa. I'll be

16 brief because I'm sure you have answered just

17 about every question under the sun with

18 respect to the school system. And I

19 apologize for not being here to listen to

20 most of it, being pulled in 15 different

21 directions.

22 But I wanted to address two things

23 that I think your agency is now being pulled

24 into in a more traditional, formal way, which

239

1 is more of the social service delivery, and

2 in partnership with ACS, as well as

3 providing, I think, more intervention in

4 substance abuse. So I was hoping you could

5 give me a brief update as to what's happening

6 with the new implementation of the policy

7 with ACS with respect to educational neglect

8 and what, if anything, DOE is doing about

9 increasing the number of substance abuse

10 workers, the SAPAS workers. As you know, the

11 opioid abuse crisis is certainly not

12 diminishing in New York City. You know,

13 Staten Island is ground zero. So if you

14 could talk a bit about it.

15 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: First of all, no

16 student is going to be successful in school

17 if the home life isn't really productive. So

18 our work with parents is always out there.

19 But to the degree that we now work more

20 closely with some of our other city agencies,

21 it's crucial. And this is something the

22 mayor has made one of his initiatives. He

23 has created something called the Children's

24 Cabinet, which actually has people serving on

240

1 it from all the agencies, including ours.

2 And this is something that we work

3 more closely at, what age do we actually

4 start working with families. We are

5 certainly -- you know, now that we have the

6 4-year-olds, how do we bring Mommies and Me

7 to schools to talk even younger.

8 So I think there's a lot of work

9 that's being done with these agencies. I

10 think in terms of we're working a lot more

11 closely with the Department of Youth Services

12 as well, to work with our middle-school kids.

13 The increase of guidance counselors and

14 social workers in our schools has been

15 substantial this year. So I do think across

16 the board there's a lot more collaboration

17 that's being done. We're also working with

18 our commissioner of health, because you can't

19 do families and students without that. So

20 with Mary Bassett we've done some new

21 initiatives. So I think there's a lot more

22 cooperation across agencies.

23 DOE CFO ORLANDO: If I can just add,

24 we've also, with your support, been able to

241

1 increase the number of SAPAS workers, so

2 thank you for that. And as the chancellor is

3 pointing out to me, a lot of that has been

4 focused on Staten Island, where the need is

5 significant.

6 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Right.

7 SENATOR SAVINO: Yeah, thank you.

8 Last week the Staten Island Federation

9 of PTAs had their annual breakfast, and one

10 of the issues that came up there -- which I

11 think is somewhat controversial, because you

12 don't have the same opinion across the

13 city -- their concern is they want more

14 school safety officers and they want more

15 cameras and we had a very open discussion

16 there. The public advocate attended and, you

17 know, she confirmed my opinion that there's

18 not a unanimity of opinion about that as to

19 how we handle security issues in school.

20 But there is a concern about, you

21 know, students getting out of the schools and

22 no one knowing where they are. I mean, is

23 there a way that we can, you know, assuage

24 the concerns of the parents that children are

242

1 not safe in the school, that there's not

2 enough security or that they're able to get

3 out of the school and there's no way to find

4 them?

5 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: I'll be honest

6 with you, you have to follow the incidents.

7 And we're not getting the incidents in

8 Staten Island on that issue. We are getting

9 it on other issues, which is why we increased

10 the SAPAS workers. The opiates, those are

11 real issues.

12 The other thing, working much more

13 collaboratively with the Y, for example, on

14 Staten Island, that has done some really good

15 work with teenagers.

16 So I think in terms of students

17 leaving buildings unattended, we haven't

18 really seen that in Staten Island. So I

19 think it's about how do you deal with issues

20 that come up rather than to anticipate ones

21 that as of now haven't really arisen. But

22 I'm -- you know, anything you want to discuss

23 specifically on Staten Island, I'm happy to

24 do so with you.

243

1 SENATOR SAVINO: Yeah, and I only have

2 a minute left, but thank you for sharing

3 that. Because there was a request made by

4 some of the members of the Federation of PTA

5 Presidents that we allocate capital money to

6 DOE for the purchase of additional security

7 cameras. And I would not want to go down

8 that road of allocating funding if in fact

9 there's not data to support the need for

10 that.

11 So if you could -- if you or anyone in

12 administration could --

13 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Absolutely.

14 SENATOR SAVINO: Yeah, that would be

15 very helpful.

16 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: The data-driven,

17 you know, we do it for education, for

18 academics; we should do it for everything.

19 So definitely.

20 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,

21 Chancellor.

22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I think we're

24 about finished. I really want to thank you

244

1 for being here again and spending so much

2 time. I just want to point out for the

3 record that -- as I did last week when Mayor

4 de Blasio was here -- though I always

5 hesitate to tell people to go to the website,

6 you can go to the website and find out just

7 what is a mandated cost. Some of our

8 colleagues were asking how much you pay in,

9 you know, pensions and how much you pay in

10 salaries, as if we could run the system

11 without the salaries.

12 So I want to make it clear that all

13 that information for 698 districts is

14 available on the website, so that every

15 district can be compared apples to apples to

16 see what you spend on those kinds of mandated

17 costs.

18 And I want to thank you for coming

19 today. Thank you very much.

20 CHANCELLOR FARI—A: Listen, my

21 pleasure. Have a great day.

22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I think next we

24 have people from the labor unions here. I

245

1 guess Michael Mulgrew, Andy Pallotta, maybe

2 you want to come down together and we'll keep

3 moving.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

5 Chancellor.

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Why don't you --

7 maybe we can both sit at the table and then

8 we can -- we have 24 more witnesses. It's

9 1:30. So we're just going to try to -- if

10 people can bring a couple of people down

11 maybe to every table and then you can decide

12 yourselves how you want to ...

13 You guys can start.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Why don't we

15 announce who's here, though. We have

16 President Michael Mulgrew, from the United

17 Federation of Teachers; Cassie Prugh,

18 assistant to the president, from UFT; we have

19 Andrew Pallotta, executive vice president of

20 NYSUT; and Chris Black, legislative director

21 of NYSUT.

22 So welcome. We're so happy to have

23 you here today.

24 MR. PALLOTTA: Thank you, Senator

246

1 Young, and members of the Assembly and

2 Senate. I want to talk first about the

3 Foundation formula.

4 Last year, working with the Executive,

5 you eliminated the GEA. This was something

6 we celebrated, and we thank you for that.

7 Without having to deal with the GEA this

8 year, the state can and should focus on

9 Foundation Aid.

10 While we look at the Governor's

11 proposal, an increase of $428 million in

12 Foundation Aid, we believe that we should

13 have a better proposal to counter the

14 elimination of the Foundation formula. The

15 level of funding is rooted in the ability of

16 districts to provide their students with a

17 sound, basic education, as guaranteed by the

18 State Constitution. Quite simply, the repeal

19 of the Foundation Aid formula would leave

20 schools without any plan for additional

21 financial support beyond 2017-'18.

22 NYSUT fully supports fully funding the

23 Foundation Aid formula and phasing it in

24 within three years so that districts have the

247

1 state school aid they need to provide the

2 students with the highest possible education,

3 which they deserve.

4 Speaking of school aid, while the

5 Executive Budget proposal is a large

6 increase, we know that we need an even larger

7 amount of money poured into the public

8 schools. Again this year, school districts

9 will be more reliant on state aid because the

10 tax cap is set at a mere 1.26 percent. Under

11 the year's tax cap, only $200 million can be

12 raised throughout the entire state to fund

13 schools.

14 NYSUT concurs with the Regents' call

15 for an overall increase of $2.1 billion in

16 general purpose school aid. We ask that the

17 additional $600 million in funding should be

18 targeted towards providing continued support

19 for struggling schools, increasing funding

20 for ELLs, restoring funding for Teacher

21 Centers, expanding pre-kindergarten,

22 expanding access and support for college and

23 career pathways, and assisting districts that

24 have growing enrollment.

248

1 Also another important issue for many

2 members throughout the state is to fully

3 reimburse school districts that are affected

4 by the closure of power plants, such as

5 Indian Point, or where the full valuation of

6 the tax base has been reduced, such as in

7 North Rockland.

8 On impounding funds, an issue of great

9 concern to us in the Executive Budget is the

10 proposal to legalize the impoundment of state

11 funds, including school aid, should federal

12 or state revenue fall below projections in

13 the state's financial plan. The action could

14 be taken by the Director of Budget at any

15 time without consultation or approval of the

16 Legislature.

17 The tax cap. Living under the tax cap

18 for most districts has been very, very

19 difficult, and they have not been able to

20 restore many of the cuts that they have

21 suffered in the past. This tax cap we would

22 like to see changed. We would, at the least,

23 like to see the elimination of the

24 supermajority requirement, eliminating the

249

1 possibility of a negative tax cap, and

2 changing the tax levy limit to 2 percent or

3 CPI, whichever is greater.

4 On community schools. First I want to

5 thank you for your leadership in building on

6 community schools. The model is working, it

7 is working in New York City and the other

8 large districts statewide. Second, we urge

9 you to maintain the $255 million in existing

10 Community School funding, which includes

11 restoration of the $75 million for continued

12 struggling schools conversion, and add

13 $100 million in new funding for these

14 schools.

15 On receivership. This issue has been

16 of great concern to many schools throughout

17 the state, and we support the collaborative

18 Community School model to replace this

19 current punitive statute. Specifically,

20 absent a full repeal of this statute, we are

21 calling for legislation to be enacted that

22 would automatically turn these schools into

23 community schools.

24 In addition, we call for a moratorium

250

1 on this punitive law. Students and teachers,

2 rightfully, have a moratorium on tests and

3 evaluations based on the failed

4 implementation of the Common Core, yet

5 schools are still judged on these flawed

6 measures. It's not right, and it's not fair,

7 and we ask for your support in making this

8 happen.

9 Teacher Centers. At a time when we

10 are asking educators to comply with higher

11 learning standards, we must provide educators

12 with the resources and tools they need. The

13 Statewide Teacher Center Network has already

14 developed and is offering professional

15 learning sessions for educators who work with

16 English language learners. We call on the

17 legislature to restore us to the previous

18 levels of $40 million.

19 On charter schools. In the absence of

20 much-needed transparency and accountability

21 measures for charter schools, NYSUT strongly

22 opposes proposed increases in tuition

23 payments, rental aid, and any other costs

24 associated with charter school management

251

1 operators.

2 NYSUT has analyzed the unfreezing of

3 basic tuition formulas, and we have concluded

4 that 156 districts would incur, at a minimum,

5 additional costs of $120 million. If

6 enacted, this would create a huge unfunded

7 mandate on public school districts, since

8 funding is paid for by public school budgets.

9 Moreover, the property tax cap holds charter

10 schools harmless, but public school districts

11 must pay the increased funding.

12 On CTE, we must continue to support

13 and expand the access to CTE programs, and we

14 fully support increasing the aidable salary

15 for all CTE programs and increasing BOCES aid

16 and special services aid.

17 We urge the Legislature to provide

18 regular, predictable increases in tuition

19 rates for the 4201, 4401, 853 and Special Act

20 schools, and assist them in achieving funding

21 percentage parity with surrounding school

22 districts.

23 On state revenue. So we say, how do

24 we pay for all of this? NYSUT believes that

252

1 the state should not only extend the

2 so-called millionaire's tax, but should

3 expand it. NYSUT urges the Legislature to

4 pass the Assembly's progressive tax plan for

5 the state's highest earners, which would

6 raise $5.6 billion in new revenue annually to

7 support public education, healthcare, and

8 infrastructure improvements.

9 We also support closing the

10 carried-interest loophole, which lets

11 partners at private equity firms and hedge

12 funds pay a greatly reduced federal tax rate

13 on much of their income by declaring it as

14 capital gains. It seems only fair that this

15 income should be funded at the proper rate.

16 NYSUT looks forward to partnering with

17 the Legislature to ensure our students

18 receive the best education possible in this

19 coming year.

20 Thank you, and I'll now turn it over

21 to Michael Mulgrew.

22 MR. MULGREW: Thank you, Mr. Pallotta.

23 And I'd like to start by thanking

24 Assemblywoman Nolan, Senator Young, and

253

1 Senator Marcellino -- thank you very much for

2 convening -- and all the other members of the

3 Legislature.

4 I'm very happy to say at this point in

5 time in New York City that our graduation

6 rate is at an all-time high, our dropout rate

7 is at an all-time low, our pre-K program is

8 absolutely thriving. AP for All, we've had

9 the biggest increase in numbers in our

10 history. And it is really because of a focus

11 and a decision to make sure that we are

12 funding education as we are meeting the needs

13 of the students inside of our great city as

14 well as our state.

15 In New York City, I want to be clear,

16 New York City has met the call for funding of

17 education. Our percentage of funding has

18 gone up to 57 percent in New York City at

19 this point in time in terms of its education,

20 where just five years ago it was 49 percent.

21 So I want to be clear with everyone that New

22 York City is not only making great strides,

23 but it is doing it by putting its money where

24 its mouth is. We are making a difference for

254

1 children in education.

2 So when it comes to funding itself,

3 the continuation and expansion of the

4 millionaire's tax is clear, because in the

5 budget proposals we have seen, there is a

6 budget deficit. So we must make sure that we

7 are continuing to fund education as we

8 continue to make our positive gains. The

9 only way to ensure that this is going to

10 happen is by making sure that we are funding

11 it.

12 So as we also move forward, we have

13 seen that there is a proposal for changing

14 the way the schools right now are being

15 funded. We know that GEA was paid off

16 completely last year, and it is imperative to

17 us that we make sure that we base funding on

18 need. And it's a real number, and we need to

19 make sure that we are being responsive to the

20 changing demographics inside of each school

21 district in our state.

22 With that said, we do not believe that

23 the formula that is being proposed in the

24 Executive's budget will meet that. We do

255

1 believe the Foundation Aid formula that was

2 in place last year should continue, and if

3 anyone chooses to change these formulas, that

4 should be done in a collaborative effort

5 where we're looking at how these things

6 affect each and every district. We know we

7 have changing and shifting populations

8 throughout the state. We need to make sure

9 that we have formulas that are based upon

10 meeting that need.

11 In terms of the provisions that we

12 have seen on charters, I understand and I'm

13 very unhappy -- there is a great fear, and I

14 have been up here a couple of times this year

15 already speaking about it, with our new

16 Secretary of Education. We have brought

17 people from the State of Michigan -- in fact,

18 the president of the State of Michigan School

19 Board was here and did a presentation.

20 We are adamantly opposed --

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: They spoke at

22 our committee. They were very, very -- they

23 spoke to our committee members, as you

24 recall, and it was very, very informative.

256

1 MR. MULGREW: Thank you, yes.

2 We are adamantly opposed to any

3 expansion or any additional funding until we

4 have clear accountability and transparency.

5 Specifically, what happened in Michigan was a

6 step-by-step strategic scheme to defund and

7 get rid of neighborhood public schools. And

8 we are looking at New York State to say this

9 is not going to happen here. We believe that

10 all three branches of our government believe

11 that the neighborhood public school is the

12 foundation to everything we do and where

13 we're going to move our state.

14 And I want to be very clear, the

15 elected officials from Michigan said, "We

16 didn't understand each issue as it rolled

17 out, but cumulatively they then had the

18 effect that they wanted." They destroyed

19 their neighborhood public schools both in

20 rural districts as well as the cities. And

21 we are very, very focused on making sure that

22 we have real transparency and accountability,

23 because the folks who advocated on behalf of

24 the charter schools in Michigan actually

257

1 would spend more money trying to stop any

2 legislation that held them accountable and

3 made sure they were transparent.

4 I cannot thank you enough for the

5 special projects that we have done in the

6 past. There is an unintended consequence

7 from a law we passed two years ago on teacher

8 evaluation. Something we all supported was

9 the professional hours that every teacher is

10 now responsible for in the State of New York.

11 The problem is that what we did not intend at

12 that point was for small education

13 corporations to make a lot of money off of

14 that.

15 So what has happened is you have a lot

16 of small for-profit education companies who

17 are now offering courses to teachers at an

18 average of $300 each, for three hours. I do

19 not believe it was ever the intention of our

20 Legislature to put that burden upon the

21 teachers.

22 What we have done in New York City,

23 when we quickly realized what was happening,

24 we had the Teacher Center authorized as a

258

1 vendor for these hours. We have met all the

2 obligations of the State Education

3 Department. We believe the Teacher Centers

4 should become a vital and pivotal part of

5 supplying this professional development to

6 all of the teachers in New York State. And

7 that will require an increase -- we are

8 asking to go back to the original, which was

9 $40 million, especially since this has

10 basically become an unintended tax upon

11 teachers, because they are now responsible at

12 this moment in other parts of the state for

13 paying for these classes out of pocket.

14 And I cannot thank the Teacher Center

15 enough for all that they are doing in terms

16 of taking paraprofessionals to teacher

17 assistants, our district initiatives based on

18 English language learners training -- all of

19 these things are the valuable services that

20 are being put forth by our Teacher Center.

21 The Positive Learning Collaborative is

22 something we are doing in New York City. It

23 goes into a school and absolutely trains

24 everyone on every aspect -- not just

259

1 restorative justice, but on each and every

2 element of a school that will make it a

3 positive culture. And we believe that is

4 something we should continue, and we look to

5 the state to help us to do that.

6 Career and Technical Education, I was

7 very happy last night to see, on the floor of

8 the Congress of the United States, where

9 everyone got together, all the parties, and

10 said, This is something we need to do. So I

11 am happy to report to you that we are working

12 with the State Education Department to make

13 it a streamlined proposal to the Board of

14 Regents in terms of Career and Technical

15 Education. But once that is done, I would

16 like to say that education has all of its

17 ducks in a row, and it is now time to really

18 look at our economic and workforce

19 development and aligning it with the K-12

20 education system.

21 And last but not least, childcare.

22 Right now we know this is a challenge. New

23 York City is in a crisis. We are looking for

24 an increase in childcare funding. We have

260

1 tens of thousands of families who do not have

2 the ability to get free or affordable

3 childcare, and we believe very strongly if we

4 want everyone to move forward, that this is

5 something we need to offer the families not

6 just of New York City, but across the entire

7 state.

8 Thank you very much.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you,

10 Mr. Mulgrew.

11 Mr. Pallotta and Mr. Black from NYSUT,

12 do you have testimony too?

13 MR. PALLOTTA: We gave it.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Oh, okay. So you

15 don't have anything on top of that. Okay,

16 gotcha.

17 I think Senator Marcellino had a

18 question. I'm sorry, you know what? I'm

19 sorry, you know what, it's the Assembly, so

20 it would be Assemblywoman Nolan.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: No, that's fine.

22 Please go. We always have questions we can

23 ask.

24 But I know Shelley Mayer had one, so

261

1 let me just turn to her right away.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Thank you for

3 being here. And a particular thank you to

4 NYSUT for working so collaboratively in

5 Yonkers to try to achieve a resolution of

6 some really extraordinary challenges. Thank

7 you for your efforts on that.

8 I had a question for you, Mr. Mulgrew,

9 about the percentage of funding for the

10 school budget that the City of New York

11 contributes. And I know Chancellor FariÒa

12 also mentioned this. But you mentioned that

13 the City of New York now contributes

14 57 percent. Is that of the total public

15 school budget?

16 MR. MULGREW: Yes.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: And when was it

18 49 percent?

19 MR. MULGREW: I believe five years

20 ago.

21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: And what do you

22 think is the basis for their increased

23 participation? Is that just a collaborative

24 effort, or is it pressure from parents --

262

1 MR. MULGREW: It's a combination of

2 many of the things that you're speaking

3 about. We have many more professional

4 development, we're rolling out programs that

5 are based upon research. All of that

6 obviously requires funding. The expansion of

7 an entire grade in terms of pre-K. Some of

8 that was supplied by the state, but portions

9 of it had to be from the city itself.

10 It really is a combination of a

11 commitment to trying to make sure that every

12 school is the center of its community. So

13 you have outreach to parents in a much more

14 rigorous way than we had four years ago. We

15 have -- as I said, we have a very rigorous

16 training regimen for all the teachers of

17 New York City that we now have in place, as

18 well as all of these different programs.

19 The literacy for every child, literacy

20 in terms of being on the correct literacy

21 rate by the beginning of third grade, that's

22 required an immense amount of training and

23 coordination between all of the schools.

24 So you put all of these variables

263

1 together, we've increased the budget. And

2 the state has picked up some of that, but the

3 city, because of this administration's belief

4 in so many of the programs that they have

5 publicly and privately just been pushing out

6 there, this is why we've had an increase on

7 the city side.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Okay. And the

9 other question was about the receivership

10 schools, to NYSUT. Can you just describe the

11 current state where basically the lawsuit --

12 the court determined that the $75 million,

13 the amount should be allocated to those

14 schools that came off the list of struggling

15 and then were denied the money, I think by

16 the Division of Budget. Have you been able

17 to move any of that money out the door?

18 NYSUT EXECUTIVE VP PALLOTTA: No. But

19 we do believe that that money should go to

20 those schools, because they have been working

21 very hard to improve the student outcomes.

22 So we're supporting anything that can be done

23 to move that money into the schools.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Well, as you

264

1 know, when we passed the legislation, the

2 intent was that the money go to the schools

3 that were on the list. And the fact that

4 they did well enough to come off the list

5 should never have been a reason to deny them

6 the money. And I think we're going to

7 continue to need your participation in

8 pushing that issue.

9 MR. PALLOTTA: Right, we agree. And

10 we celebrate that they were able to get off

11 that list.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Thank you.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I just have a

14 brief question.

15 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Sure.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I want to first

17 thank you both for being here. And thank you

18 for the team, Chris and Cassie. You know,

19 not new faces, but stepping up to leadership

20 roles, both of you, and I appreciate the good

21 working relationship we've had. I knew Steve

22 and Carol so well, I want to sort of give

23 them both a shout out. But I want to thank

24 the new team for all the work that -- and the

265

1 cooperation with our office on a really, you

2 know, constant level. And I really, really

3 appreciate, Cassie, you getting in touch with

4 me even this morning. And Chris, we really

5 appreciate that kind of back and forth.

6 I just want to read something into the

7 record, and then if either of you would like

8 to respond. Michael Rebell, a professor at

9 Columbia University -- who was a cocounsel

10 for plaintiffs in the Campaign for Fiscal

11 Equity vs. The State of New York lawsuit --

12 who we've had at our committee and we intend

13 to have him again at a breakfast to talk to

14 our members who are interested -- but Michael

15 Rebell, in an op-ed in the Daily News,

16 singled out -- it was a response to an op-ed

17 that Paul Francis, a member of the Governor's

18 staff, wrote where he said -- Paul Francis

19 said -- that the Court of Appeals' CFE ruling

20 at this point is merely "symbolism" and has

21 no lasting significance.

22 And Professor Rebell said that

23 actually that was not the case, that CFE was

24 not a one-time ruling issued solely to remedy

266

1 inadequate funding levels that the court had

2 found in New York, but that like any other

3 pronouncement about constitutional rights,

4 the opinions were definitive, enduring, and

5 highly significant legal proclamations for

6 the future of the state's children.

7 And as you know, right now we're

8 looking to -- the Regents recommended a

9 larger increase in Foundation Aid than the

10 Executive, and the Executive has come back

11 with essentially ending Foundation Aid as

12 well as a much smaller amount of money with a

13 different formula overlay.

14 So if either of you would like to

15 comment on that or on Professor Rebell's

16 thoughts on the importance of CFE and -- or

17 do you think it is a one-time-only thing that

18 has lost its significance, or is it something

19 that we should continue and that should be an

20 enduring ruling?

21 MR. MULGREW: Thank you for bringing

22 this up. It is not a one-time-only. When

23 that court case was being decided, it was

24 clear -- and I think it was correctly

267

1 identified and dealt with by the

2 Legislature -- that this would now lead to

3 additional court cases throughout the state

4 because the funding formula was unequal and

5 it was not being based upon need. And at

6 that point the Legislature adopted a phase-in

7 period of doing the CFE and moving towards a

8 Foundation Aid that would become permanent.

9 So there was never a "it's over." It never

10 was ever contemplated at that point in time.

11 Now, people can argue because we had a

12 severe financial crisis in the middle -- it

13 was my first year as president of the UFT,

14 and I came up here and it was somewhat, as

15 you could imagine, somewhat chaotic, to say

16 the least, because everyone was going back

17 home and listening to all of the horrible

18 cuts that were going to take place.

19 So the Legislature dealt as best it

20 could with each time the CFE thing came into

21 question. But it is clear now, after last

22 year -- how do you fund the GEA and now, when

23 it's finally time to actually start using the

24 Foundation Aid in a more meaningful way, that

268

1 there is a discussion about not doing that

2 anymore and it's just wrong?

3 I understand that there are school

4 districts in this state, because of -- you

5 know, could quickly have a shift in student

6 population, the type of student population it

7 has. We need to look at some of that. It's

8 clear that that should be part of the

9 discussion of this Legislature. There should

10 be some fluidity in terms of having to help

11 school districts deal with that in terms of

12 just not having a very rigid formula. But in

13 the end what we were saying in CFE is, this

14 is the way you should adequately fund your

15 schools as a state. And it was never

16 intended to say, all right, this program is

17 over, bye-bye.

18 So we believe very strongly that the

19 Foundation Aid formula needs to be put in

20 permanently. And if the Legislature believes

21 that there should be a process for changing

22 it at times, based off of shifting

23 demographics or a need that they think would

24 help school districts in a better way, then

269

1 fine, put that process in. But just to say

2 "Get rid of it, and here's a new one," just

3 does not work.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you.

5 I don't know if Andy wants to -- and

6 then I'm done, thank you, Senator Young.

7 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Andy, if you

9 want to.

10 MR. PALLOTTA: Just an agreement that

11 the current Foundation Aid formula takes into

12 consideration so many different factors. And

13 this was something that we had supported for

14 so long to make sure that we actually bring

15 the tremendous amount of money that is

16 necessary to run the school system.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you.

18 Thank you, Senator Young.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

20 Senator Marcellino.

21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Good afternoon,

22 gentlemen -- and lady. Microphone? Good

23 afternoon, I'll repeat it again.

24 The Governor is proposing about a

270

1 billion-dollar increase in his budget; that's

2 the state budget overall. You're asking for

3 a 2.1 increase over the last budget.

4 Everything I read tells me that New York

5 State is the highest-taxed state, or one of

6 them, in the country. Perhaps California may

7 be higher; I don't know. But we certainly

8 are up there. We are losing population from

9 our state. I'm told that should we do the

10 census now, we would lose potentially at

11 least one congressional district in

12 Washington. That's not a good thing for us.

13 That's where the money comes from. So we

14 don't want to lose that, but that's a

15 possibility.

16 I need to know, how do we fund this?

17 I'm not opposed to giving you money. I'm not

18 opposed to funding the schools. It's how I

19 made my living, it's how my wife made her

20 living. We're education people. We believe

21 in schools, we believe in public schools.

22 We're there. But I also have constituents

23 who are telling me they can't afford their

24 taxes. Property taxes is how we fund it on

271

1 Long Island and most of the state. They're

2 out of sight. It could be 70 percent of your

3 property tax is school tax.

4 How do we keep senior citizens, how do

5 we keep young people, how do we get young

6 people to be able to afford to buy a home so

7 that you get more youngsters to go to the

8 schools, we put more bodies in the

9 classrooms? We need to be able to attract

10 them here. I'm not afraid or ashamed to ask

11 for some help. Talk to me. Tell me some

12 thoughts, some ideas, some concerns, some

13 ways to deal with this problem, because

14 it's -- it seems like it is a real issue

15 here. And it's an issue for my constituents.

16 If I go back to my constituents now and I

17 tell them I want to raise property taxes or

18 state taxes or whatever, there will be a

19 lynch mob outside my house. It wouldn't take

20 long. And my wife might be leading it, so I

21 don't know. But the nature of the beast is

22 it will be a problem.

23 What are your thoughts?

24 MR. PALLOTTA: On the increase in

272

1 funding, just to keep school aid just where

2 we keep services the same, we've seen the

3 number $1.7 billion. So the Regents call for

4 $2.1 billion. They're the experts in

5 education, and we follow their lead on this.

6 The Educational Conference Board has also put

7 forward the number $2.1 billion as an

8 increase in education funding.

9 When you talk about the taxes that are

10 paid in various parts of the state, we know

11 that that is difficult, especially senior

12 citizens. We did propose a circuit breaker a

13 few years back. People live in districts,

14 they love their public schools, they support

15 them. And the reason that they move to some

16 of those districts is just because of the

17 public schools. We have --

18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: I have just -- I

19 don't mean to interrupt you, but I have

20 neighbors who came from Queens. They bought

21 the house next door to me. It's an Asian

22 family. They come from Flushing, my old

23 stomping ground. They bought the house,

24 their kids are going to the public schools.

273

1 They intend to sell -- as soon as the kids

2 graduate from public schools, they intend to

3 sell to another couple who will do pretty

4 much the same thing.

5 Now, this is a thing that is happening

6 all over the Island. People are coming into

7 districts, living there for the schools, as

8 soon as the kids no longer have to be in the

9 schools, they go back to wherever they

10 were -- maybe the city, wherever -- where the

11 property tax burden is a lot less. Or

12 wherever they want to move that they feel

13 they can afford. So, you know, it is

14 impacting us in a lot of ways.

15 MR. PALLOTTA: So our proposal also

16 includes expanding the millionaire's tax,

17 which would bring in billions. And if we

18 look at it that way, we say, Well, it's not

19 adding an additional burden on the real

20 estate tax that folks pay. Also the carried

21 interest. The folks that are the hedge

22 funders that have been getting away without

23 paying their fair share throughout these

24 years, that is where the money would come

274

1 from.

2 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thanks.

3 Appreciate your thought.

4 MR. PALLOTTA: Thank you.

5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: And I

6 appreciate -- and I mean this -- I appreciate

7 the work you do and the work that your

8 members do. It isn't easy. It is not easy

9 work. You don't always get the thank you

10 that you deserve, nor do your members get the

11 thank yous that they deserve. They're

12 standing there on the front lines, they're

13 dealing with issues, they're dealing with

14 youngsters who come in and they're not always

15 in a good mood. You know, there might have

16 been a night in the family, there could have

17 been something going on that night, the kid's

18 in a bad mood and takes it out on the teacher

19 in the classroom the next day. So they have

20 to maintain calmness and still teach biology.

21 So it's not easy to do. And I congratulate

22 you, and I congratulate your members for the

23 work they do for us and for our kids.

24 MR. MULGREW: Thank you, Senator.

275

1 MR. PALLOTTA: Thank you.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Nicely said.

3 We're done. I think we're done.

4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Oh, we're not.

5 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No, Savino

6 wanted -- go get her, will you?

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: While Diane comes

8 in, I just -- so, one, thank you.

9 Two, I wanted to just point out --

10 because I'm assuming you were up in the back

11 but I don't know -- that when the State

12 Education Department chancellor testified,

13 she highlighted that countries that

14 prioritize their teachers and appreciate

15 their teachers -- I think she meant it from

16 both a monetary and a cultural perspective --

17 have the best outcomes for students.

18 And so to follow in on what Senator

19 Marcellino just closed with, it continues to

20 be apparent to many of us that there's not

21 actually enough respect for teachers, or

22 appreciation, and so we're not necessarily

23 drawing people into the profession that we

24 desperately need in the profession. So I'd

276

1 like both of your opinions on what we could

2 do better to ensure that our best and

3 brightest recognize that as hard as it is,

4 they do want to be teachers.

5 MR. PALLOTTA: Well, definitely in the

6 SUNY system, where we have many schools that

7 graduate teachers, there has been a

8 significant drop in the amount of folks that

9 are going into teaching. So throughout the

10 last few years ago with the Common Core and

11 the debacle of that, we've just seen folks

12 that are discouraged from going into the

13 profession. So just hearing what you have

14 said today, encouraging and showing the

15 respect for the profession, that's important.

16 And also making sure that each and every day

17 we go into schools that are fully funded. I

18 mean, that is the key piece here. That's why

19 we're at the budget hearing, to make sure

20 that the funding is sufficient for the

21 schools.

22 MR. MULGREW: It's appropriate that

23 actually today is Show Your Love for Public

24 Schools Day. That's what we're doing across

277

1 the state today.

2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I saw those

3 valentine hearts. I saw those valentine

4 hearts.

5 MR. MULGREW: This is something of

6 really great concern to us. Dr. Linda

7 Darling-Hammond, in her research think tank

8 out in Stanford, just addressed a group of

9 leaders and she said, "We keep talking about

10 this education teacher shortage that's about

11 to hit," and she is clear that within the

12 next two years, it's going to hit major

13 league. We have shortage areas throughout

14 the City of New York.

15 Now, we like to think that we can

16 continue to attract people, but right now

17 there are districts in New York City where we

18 do not have all our vacancies full. And

19 everything that we're being told is that's

20 actually going to get worse. And clearly

21 that had a lot to do with the bashing of

22 education for over a decade.

23 So as we move forward, it's more about

24 celebrating what we're doing inside of the

278

1 schools. But addressing the actual needs, if

2 you're in a high-needs district, the

3 Community Learning School push has truly

4 proven to be something that's working,

5 solving something that's a very difficult

6 equation in education. That's starting to

7 work. As well as elected officials like

8 yourselves. I mean, in New York City we can

9 tell, because we survey on a yearly basis,

10 you know, they're definitely feeling better

11 at this moment in time. It does make a

12 difference when they hear from elected

13 officials that, you know, we understand what

14 you do is a great thing -- because they don't

15 hear that all the time. But the recognition

16 of how difficult the job is and then saying

17 you're not going to be able to solve this by

18 yourself, you're going to need help, we'll

19 get you support and help, you have to go for

20 your training, you have to really integrate

21 all the other things, that's how we're going

22 to move education.

23 But we're going to have, at the

24 minimum, we're going to -- it's almost like

279

1 global warming, I guess, at this point.

2 There's certain things that are just going to

3 happen. And there is just not enough

4 teachers in the pipeline. That's why

5 retention becomes a huge issue right now.

6 Because if you can't fill a slot, every slot

7 you lose is even a bigger problem. So this

8 is something we're having a lot of

9 discussions on. We've started a lot of

10 things. But it's a real problem that I am

11 sure we'll be talking about here over the

12 next couple of years.

13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

14 I know Senator Savino did have some

15 questions, if somebody can find her.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Otherwise I

17 think we need to -- we have 24 other

18 witnesses.

19 MR. MULGREW: Here she is.

20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: She's coming.

21 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you. Thank

22 you, Senator Krueger and Senator Young. I'm

23 doing double duty with alumni, a young group

24 of students from St. John's. I am in fact

280

1 the only female graduate from St. John's

2 University in the entire legislature, so

3 whenever they bring up students, I have to

4 meet with them.

5 But thank you. It's always good to

6 see you, President Mulgrew, and of course

7 Andy and all of you. You know, President

8 Mulgrew is my constituent, so I have to be

9 nice to him.

10 (Laughter.)

11 MR. MULGREW: It would be

12 inappropriate for me to say your sign was on

13 my lawn, wouldn't it?

14 (Laughter.)

15 SENATOR SAVINO: I want you to speak,

16 though, about something that you briefly

17 touched on in your comments, but I don't

18 think you really explained well enough, and I

19 think that they're very important programs:

20 Community schools and the Positive Learning

21 Collaborative.

22 MR. MULGREW: We came to you six years

23 ago with the idea of Community Learning

24 Schools. I know everybody talks about it

281

1 now, but six years ago nobody was talking

2 about it. And we came to you, and the state

3 was the first group to actually fund

4 Community Learning Schools in New York City.

5 And I don't think that gets enough credit.

6 And we were able to, at that point in

7 time, put together a program. There is a lot

8 of different ways to do a Community Learning

9 School. And what we felt, especially to the

10 comments made -- correct comments -- by

11 Senator Marcellino, is I said what we see out

12 there right now requires huge amounts of

13 funding, so we have to teach schools how to

14 make a lot of these services

15 self-sustainable. We have to teach local

16 municipalities that you're funding a lot of

17 these services, and they're not being

18 utilized correctly. And we can utilize these

19 services in a much more efficient way if you

20 actually start to sit down and plan out with

21 us.

22 You know, it's important that a

23 hospital is connected to the clinic inside of

24 a school, because the hospital has a way to

282

1 bill for those services for children. It's

2 important that every area of this state has

3 all sorts of social service supports, but why

4 aren't they at the place where you know the

5 community is going to touch every day, which

6 is inside of the school? And if they are at

7 the school, how do you make sure they're

8 actually being utilized in the right way?

9 And then when you have a hospital who's

10 actually where we can tell them that we can

11 guarantee 80 percent of the children in the

12 school will be using your clinic, then we can

13 then go to them and say, We need you now to

14 pay for the after-school tutoring program,

15 which they're more than happy to do.

16 So we did all of that because it was

17 just a smarter way, with the hope that we

18 would see the academic achievement move. And

19 community schools can benefit any

20 socioeconomic group. I know it's spoken

21 about mostly in terms of high-need areas, but

22 it can benefit any socioeconomic group,

23 because there's all sorts of services that

24 every area and every school has that really

283

1 could be better utilized if it was brought in

2 in a much more integrated way into the school

3 itself.

4 But in New York City we now have the

5 28 schools that we originally offered the

6 program I just spoke about in New York City,

7 and those schools have beaten all the odds.

8 They are clearly performing in ways they had

9 not done for generations. So I think it's a

10 very smart way, and I think it -- and right

11 now our resource coordinators -- that's the

12 person we train to be in the school. And

13 everybody's like, well, that costs us more

14 money. Those resource coordinators are

15 individually bringing in an average of over

16 $3 million of services to the school. So for

17 the one position where we're doing the

18 training, you get $3 million in additional

19 support inside of the school. You want to

20 talk about smart government and how to make

21 it work? That's where you go. And you also

22 get a better result in terms of the other

23 social services in your area, because now

24 they're being utilized in a much better way.

284

1 We took that same approach to school

2 culture, and because it became such a hot

3 topic -- remember No Child Left Behind? I

4 remember testifying up here. Do you know how

5 you make sure your school is a safe school?

6 Don't report the incidents. Yeah, that made

7 a lot of sense. So we had schools who didn't

8 have any incidents, and they were safe

9 schools. But that was called No Child Left

10 Behind. So every school was basically told:

11 Don't do anything until you are forced to do

12 a suspension. By that time, the child is

13 really doing something egregious. And then

14 that led to -- just think that through --

15 children were being suspended in ways they

16 should not have been, they weren't getting

17 the services they were supposed to be. And

18 now people are saying no suspensions,

19 restorative justice -- and I'm like, that's

20 not the answer either. You have to have an

21 approach where the school is actually being

22 trained on what is a welcoming environment.

23 So we put a lot of funding in terms

24 of these are all union dollars, just as it

285

1 was -- in the beginning, it was a combination

2 of union dues money and your money. We did

3 the same thing with the Positive Learning

4 Collaborative. We went in, we had people

5 trained at Cornell, they went in, and we have

6 to get one guarantee from the school: Every

7 single person is trained. If you're in

8 charge of the boiler, you are trained. If

9 you're the security guard at the front,

10 you're trained. And you walk into these

11 schools, and everyone understands it's their

12 responsibility to have a positive place, and

13 they case-conference and they really make

14 sure that things are done in a smart way.

15 I open those programs and schools up

16 to anyone in the Legislature who wants to see

17 them, because I believe they are shining

18 examples of smart, efficient ways to use

19 government and its funding and smart

20 approaches to actually make changes for

21 children.

22 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you very

24 much.

286

1 MR. MULGREW: Thank you.

2 MR. PALLOTTA: Thank you.

3 MR. MULGREW: Happy Valentine's Day.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I like those

5 heart-shaped buttons. Thank you very much.

6 I think we have the Big 5 now. We're

7 going to have all of them come down, right,

8 so that we can --

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Yes.

10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Yeah. It's

11 Dr. Edwin Quezada, Dr. Kriner Cash,

12 Ms. Barbara Deane-Williams, Mr. Jaime Alicea.

13 Rochester, Syracuse, Yonkers and Buffalo.

14 (Discussion off the record.)

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: As I said, I

16 don't know if you want to flip a coin, go

17 right to left, left to right, seniority --

18 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: We're ready.

19 We're ready.

20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Okay, jump in.

21 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: Okay. Good

22 afternoon, everyone, and I appreciate you

23 taking your time at the end of a long day to

24 hear from your colleagues from the Big 5

287

1 school districts.

2 My name is Kriner Cash, and I'm the

3 superintendent of the Buffalo public schools.

4 I'd like to frame my remarks in about six or

5 seven minutes, as we've been requested to

6 keep our remarks brief so we can all have a

7 shared time with you.

8 I'd like to thank the leaders and

9 those of you who remain for being here to

10 listen to us.

11 As you know, in Buffalo right now

12 there is an exciting economic renaissance

13 occurring, in the city and for the Western

14 New York region. I'm also pleased to tell

15 you that there is an exciting educational

16 renaissance occurring in the City of Buffalo

17 right now. And that is possible because we

18 have a new vision, we have a new leadership.

19 And that plan is focused on the new education

20 bargain. The new education bargain has six

21 important elements, and they align to what

22 many of your colleagues have been talking

23 about here today, including Commissioner

24 Elia. It starts with a much more rigorous

288

1 early elementary education. It's focused

2 around strong community schools. We've

3 launched 13 of those in just the last year.

4 It focuses on new innovative high schools,

5 with new CTE programs aligned to emerging

6 industry in Western New York, like software

7 application design and cybersecurity, medical

8 and the allied health fields. Those are the

9 new CTE of the future.

10 It also has enriched and strong

11 after-school programs, services for our

12 neediest children and families, and a new

13 relationship with our teachers -- very

14 important.

15 You have before you a synthesis or a

16 summary of the State of the State, so I won't

17 go back through that. But what I can tell

18 you is that the early results are

19 encouraging. We have -- graduation rates are

20 up 6, even 7 points now, we just found out

21 yesterday, over just the last two years. And

22 it's up to 64 percent; we're going to head to

23 70 percent over the next two years.

24 We have a strategy for every single

289

1 area of improvement in our work, both on the

2 academic side and on the operational side.

3 We're trying to improve all aspects of

4 operation in Buffalo public schools.

5 So let me summarize, then, for you

6 what the ask is. The ask is a $65 million

7 ask overall over last year. It is a

8 $45 million increase in the Foundation Aid

9 aligned to what the commissioner is saying,

10 an increase up to that $2.1 billion

11 Foundation Aid amount that we'd like to see

12 the state get to. And of that share, we'd

13 like $45 million. And the Governor has

14 already given us 24 -- well, $20 million,

15 $21 million at this point. So that would be

16 an additional $25 million that we're asking

17 over and above the Governor's proposal.

18 And then, second, you heard

19 Commissioner Elia talk about the critical

20 investment need in the area of universal

21 pre-K, additional support for our English

22 language learners, support for college and

23 career pathways, and creating a special fund

24 for professional development for our teachers

290

1 and principals. We support that

2 wholeheartedly and enthusiastically. We

3 would like $20 million for those critical

4 investments as our share of that state school

5 aid ask.

6 That's the summary, colleagues. I

7 don't want to go much further. I know that

8 18 minutes is the limit for adult education

9 attention span. You're well past that today.

10 So I thank you for your listening attention,

11 and I conclude my remarks. And I thank you

12 for hearing all of us, and share the needs

13 that I know my colleagues from the other

14 Big 5 school districts will tell you about

15 now. Thank you.

16 SUPERINTENDENT QUEZADA: Thank you,

17 and I will follow Dr. Cash.

18 So distinguished members of the Joint

19 Legislative Fiscal and Education Committee,

20 thank you for the opportunity to address you

21 on behalf of the Yonkers City School

22 District. I am Dr. Edwin Quezada,

23 superintendent of schools. The City of

24 Yonkers is an amalgamation of diverse

291

1 citizens from every continent and social

2 socioeconomic strata. It is in this city

3 where over 32,000 children and their families

4 strive to achieve the American dream. We,

5 the City of Yonkers in New York State, are

6 responsible to provide the intellectual,

7 social and emotional foundation for our

8 children to thrive as productive citizens in

9 our great country. It is a responsibility

10 that comes with many challenges.

11 Who are Yonkers students? They are

12 over 32,000 urban students; over 26,000 pre-K

13 to Grade 12 students in the district's 39

14 public schools, 427 students with

15 disabilities in out-of-district placements,

16 696 students in the charter school, and over

17 4,600 children in City of Yonkers parochial

18 and private schools. District enrollment is

19 projected for continuous growth through 2021.

20 Our students reside in Westchester County and

21 deserve to have the same educational

22 experiences and opportunities as their peers

23 throughout the county. And their needs are

24 decisively greater. Many Yonkers students

292

1 face extreme poverty and require academic,

2 social, and emotional supports. Seventy-nine

3 percent of our students are economically

4 disadvantaged. Seventeen percent are

5 students with disabilities. Twelve percent

6 are English language learners. Fifty-seven

7 percent are Hispanic, and 19 percent are

8 African-American or black.

9 Last year I came before this body and

10 reported that the state of the Yonkers public

11 schools is strong, and invited you to invest

12 where success is becoming a reality for all

13 children. I asked you to help us move

14 towards compliance, and you did. Together we

15 were able to remove five schools out of eight

16 from the list of persistently struggling and

17 struggling schools, achieve a commanding

18 graduation rate, expand the Community School

19 model, accept the My Brother's Keeper

20 challenge, reduce out-of-school suspensions

21 and the dropout rate, and we championed the

22 Rebuild Yonkers Schools campaign.

23 Today, Yonkers is poised to becoming a

24 model district for urban education. All of

293

1 the necessary elements for sustainable

2 solutions for student success are within

3 reach. The essential missing element is

4 recurrent revenues aligned to our pupil

5 demographics. We will continue to plead for

6 Foundation Aid with poverty measures that

7 accurately reflect the populations being

8 served.

9 Work with us to make Yonkers schools

10 complete. The state, the city and the school

11 district share the responsibility. Schools

12 throughout New York State have full-time

13 counselors, psychologists, librarians, social

14 workers, music and art teachers, reading

15 teachers and more. Unfortunately, this is

16 not the case in Yonkers schools. Our 39

17 schools servicing over 26,000 students have

18 only 25 psychologists, 13 social workers, 36

19 school counselors, eight librarians. How are

20 we expected to support the needs of our

21 students and their families?

22 Partner with Yonkers. Support our

23 work as we create a model district for urban

24 education. Your help is needed to make

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1 Yonkers schools complete for the urban

2 students we serve. So I ask you, change the

3 Foundation Aid formula to allow for more

4 recurrent revenues. Increase funding to

5 address the needs of students with

6 disabilities and English language learners.

7 Increase the allocation for Career and

8 Technical Education. Ensure that full-day

9 pre-K is permanently funded for Yonkers

10 through recurrent revenues rather than

11 grants. Increase funding for professional

12 development. Increase funding for extended

13 day and after-school programs.

14 For Yonkers schools to attain

15 sustainable solutions for student success,

16 recurrent revenues must be the norm. Our

17 students require consistent, long-term

18 interventions, and this cannot be

19 accomplished with intermittent one-shot or

20 short multiyear grants.

21 Let me provide you a concrete example.

22 Our proposed 2017-2018 budget, which includes

23 only a status quo and required sustainable

24 expenses, presents a gap of $38 million

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1 dollars. To balance the budget, I must

2 identify $38 million of savings. This is not

3 realistic, nor is it acceptable. Who gets

4 affected by this practice? Our students.

5 Once again, we are forced to eliminate

6 programs that work by cutting needed staff

7 and reducing services.

8 Finally, I want to say thank you to

9 the State Legislature and Governor. Last

10 year Mayor Spano, his administration, the

11 trustees of the Board of Education, the

12 entire community and I advocated for the

13 Rebuild Yonkers Schools legislation. With

14 your support, this bill -- submitted by our

15 outstanding Yonkers delegation -- is now the

16 law. Rebuilding Yonkers schools can no

17 longer be a conversation, it must become a

18 reality. Our students are learning in spaces

19 that are not suitable for a 21st-century

20 education. This is a travesty that must be

21 corrected. Please consider providing Yonkers

22 support with this work that is aligned to

23 what has been provided to similar

24 communities.

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1 With limited funds, we have proven

2 that we are a community on the move, and our

3 magnificent students excel. Last week the

4 State Education Department released the 2016

5 graduation data. Yonkers' August graduation

6 rate went up by 4 percentage points,

7 graduating 82 percent of the Class of 2016.

8 That is higher than the state average of

9 81 percent. And our dropout rate is down to

10 4 percent, half of what it was last year and

11 2 percentage points lower than the statewide

12 average.

13 You can clearly understand why Yonkers

14 is determined to pursue sustainable solutions

15 for student success. Be a part of our

16 history, dream with us, and I can assure you

17 that success will be a reality for every

18 child in the City of Yonkers. Thank you.

19 SUPERINTENDENT DEANE-WILLIAMS: Thank

20 you. My name is Barbara Deane-Williams, and

21 I began serving as the superintendent of the

22 Rochester City Schools last August. As I'm

23 new to the group, I will share that I have

24 35 years of experience as a school and

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1 district administrator, with 11 years as a

2 superintendent in rural and large districts,

3 including Greece, New York, and served most

4 recently as the senior deputy superintendent

5 for the Boston, Massachusetts, public

6 schools.

7 Since August, my team in Rochester is

8 moving aggressively to address systemic

9 issues that contribute to some of the lowest

10 achievement levels in New York State. School

11 chiefs have been redeployed to supervise

12 principals, and they are now accountable to

13 ensure that every student's academic behavior

14 and attendance performance is assessed every

15 five weeks, and that interventions are

16 monitored for quality and results.

17 To support the new chiefs of schools,

18 we have redeployed, as of one week ago,

19 40 district office educators on teams that

20 will visit each and every Rochester classroom

21 between now and the end of the semester.

22 These teams report on a progress tracker to

23 our newly appointed deputy superintendent,

24 Dr. Kendra March, on specific services,

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1 interventions, and training needed to improve

2 student performance, including building

3 strong early education programs, summer

4 learning, and Community School models. And

5 we're doing this specifically to get to the

6 root causes and to support our new budget

7 process, being led by our newly appointed

8 CFO, Dr. Everton Sewell. We are in the

9 process of conducting a line-by-line analysis

10 to build a budget that is based squarely on

11 the needs of our students and on achievement.

12 Our review of staff and student

13 schedule information, Semester 1, revealed a

14 very disturbing fact. Rochester simply does

15 not have the reading and math teachers in

16 place to provide adequate instruction for our

17 students to meet grade-level expectations in

18 reading and math.

19 We also need to meet and expand CTE

20 opportunities, and we need to focus squarely

21 on ensuring equitable access to Advanced

22 Placement and Early College opportunities for

23 all of our youth.

24 We need to increase the quantity of

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1 teachers as well as improve the quality of

2 instruction, by funding and focusing squarely

3 on the professional learning of our school

4 principals and our teachers. We will fund

5 requirements and quality instruction first

6 and then prioritize the other services we

7 want our students and our schools to have.

8 Our team is implementing a new

9 academic return-on-investment model so that

10 we can see, using data, which programs and

11 services are working well and which are not

12 yielding the results that we would expect,

13 given the resource allocations. We will

14 redeploy and reinvest in the high-priority

15 and high-return areas.

16 We intend to significantly lower costs

17 for service contracts that don't benefit

18 students. We will decrease our use of

19 substitute teachers, reduce staff overtime,

20 and seek efficiencies across the operation.

21 By taking these measures, we expect that we

22 can generate about $15 million to reinvest

23 ourselves in that which is most important.

24 However, that being said, the district

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1 faces a remaining budget gap of $58 million

2 for the 2017-2018 school year, and there are

3 several areas where the needs of Rochester

4 children cannot be met without additional

5 support from you. Most critical to our need

6 is to secure additional certified teachers,

7 especially in reading and math, so that we

8 can provide the intervention services needed

9 to reach grade-level proficiency under the

10 commissioner's Part 100 and Part 154

11 regulations.

12 To meet these and other instructional

13 requirements, Rochester City Schools need a

14 Foundation Aid increase to cover our

15 shortfall, over the Governor's proposal.

16 This will enable the eight schools in our

17 Receivership and Innovation Zone to maintain

18 the resources the State Education Department

19 has directed us to put in place in order to

20 ensure that our student achievement improves

21 immediately.

22 The Governor's proposal to unfreeze

23 charter school tuition will result in an

24 additional cost of $14.3 million to our

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1 district, which brings our total projected

2 charter school expense to $87 million next

3 year.

4 Finally, we request $2 million to

5 maintain our outstanding school nursing

6 services in Rochester schools at the current

7 level.

8 I thank you for allowing me the

9 opportunity to testify today. And in

10 summary, we deeply appreciate the support of

11 public education and respectfully request a

12 total of $58 million additional than the

13 Governor has proposed. And the rest of my

14 testimony is submitted for review in writing,

15 and I thank you.

16 SUPERINTENDENT ALICEA: Thank you very

17 much.

18 Good afternoon. My name is Jaime

19 Alicea. I am the interim superintendent of

20 the Syracuse City School District. Many

21 years back, I had the opportunity to sit back

22 there with the former superintendents that

23 came down here, to do the same thing that I'm

24 doing today, to talk about my district, to

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1 talk about the kids that we have in the

2 Syracuse City School District, and not only

3 my district, but the needs that we have in

4 the Big 5 school districts in New York State.

5 Together, we educate more than 50 percent of

6 the students in the state.

7 The Syracuse City School District

8 serves a student population of 21,000

9 students. We have this year over 1800

10 students in pre-K programs. And we have a

11 refugee population and ELL population of

12 3,500 students. Every day there is a new

13 kid, a new student coming to the Syracuse

14 City School District. Sixteen percent of our

15 students are English language learners, and

16 20 percent of our students are students that

17 need and receive special education services.

18 My colleagues here, we're all asking

19 for money. What is Syracuse asking for?

20 Syracuse has a need for $23 million that

21 we're asking this year. After the Governor

22 presented his proposal and after we put our

23 budget together, we have a need that is over

24 the amount of money allocated to us.

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1 In Syracuse we want to continue to

2 provide academic intervention services to our

3 students. We want to continue to provide

4 personalized learning, so instead of

5 providing remediation, we want to enrich our

6 kids. We want to continue to provide extra

7 support for our English language learners.

8 We want to increase Career and

9 Technical Education. Five years ago we had

10 six CTE programs in Syracuse; this past year

11 we had 23 programs. And I believe that

12 that's one of the reasons why the graduation

13 rate in Syracuse went from 55 percent to 61

14 percent. It is not where it needs to be yet,

15 but we're working hard to make sure that our

16 students are walking across the stage.

17 And we're also asking for school-based

18 health services. We want to make sure that

19 we have the nurses, the staff that we need to

20 provide the services to our students in the

21 district.

22 So in Foundation Aid, we're asking for

23 an extra $12 million. We appreciate the gap

24 elimination that you acted on. And we're

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1 looking forward to continuing to provide the

2 support that is needed for our students.

3 In Syracuse we know that it snowed all

4 over the state, but some of the streets are

5 not safe. And I have a student population

6 that is deemed very vocal and a parent

7 population that is asking me to please reduce

8 the walking distance for a 5-year-old --

9 instead of having to walk a mile and a half,

10 to at least walk only a mile to school. So

11 we're asking for $4.6 million for us in order

12 to provide transportation to all the students

13 in kindergarten through 8th grade who are

14 more than one mile from the school.

15 As I said before, we're increasing

16 Career and Technical Education. We have

17 expanded to include cybersecurity, computer

18 forensics, and the Governor talked about the

19 Central New York region being a drone

20 technology area. We did begin the

21 implementation of a drone technology program

22 at one of our high schools this past year.

23 We're also asking for school health

24 services, $1.2 million so we can continue to

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1 provide a nurse in all our schools and

2 provide health attendants so we can assist

3 our students and their families in the

4 district.

5 So in closing, it's a total of

6 $23.8 million. And I appreciate the support

7 that you have provided to Syracuse -- and not

8 only to Syracuse, to all the Big 5 school

9 districts.

10 SUPERINTENDENT KARAM: Good afternoon.

11 My name is Bruce Karam, superintendent, Utica

12 City School District. I am grateful for the

13 opportunity to speak to all of you at this

14 very important budget hearing.

15 I am here today to report on a

16 financial situation of the Utica City School

17 District and to respectfully request

18 additional funding as our school district

19 faces yet another significant budget deficit

20 for the 2017-2018 school year in the amount

21 of $1.4 million.

22 Over the past five years, we have cut

23 approximately $24 million in spending to

24 close annual multi-million-dollar budget

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1 deficits ranging from this year's projected

2 deficit of $1.4 million up to a budget

3 deficit of over $10 million during the

4 2013-2014 school year.

5 The consequences of these spending

6 cuts have been staggering and led to the

7 layoffs of over 350 full-time teachers,

8 administrators and support staff over the

9 past five years. These reductions in

10 personnel significantly drove up class sizes

11 and student-to-support-staff ratios, making

12 it much more difficult to meet the individual

13 needs of our most at-risk students.

14 Once again, we will be forced to make

15 personnel cuts in order to offset our

16 projected deficit and balance our budget for

17 the 2017-2018 school year unless we receive

18 an appreciable amount of additional state aid

19 funding.

20 One of the main reasons for next

21 year's budget deficit is the fact that our

22 district received a smaller increase in

23 Foundation Aid than we did last year. As you

24 know, Foundation Aid was specifically

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1 designed years ago to provide much-needed

2 financial relief to high-need public school

3 districts such as ours.

4 We also have concerns about a proposal

5 to eliminate the phase-in of Foundation Aid

6 beginning next year and what that would mean

7 for districts like Utica. The Utica City

8 School District continues to be one of the

9 poorest high-needs school districts in the

10 State of New York. In fact, we were recently

11 informed that our school district is now tied

12 for the third-poorest school district in the

13 state.

14 We are also unique in the fact that

15 our school district continues to be one of

16 only a few districts in New York State with a

17 growing population of students. Over the

18 past five years, our student enrollment has

19 increased by 1500 students, or 14 percent.

20 Many of these new students are high-needs

21 students, including refugee and immigrant

22 students.

23 This year alone, we have enrolled over

24 450 new English language learners in the

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1 district. English language learners now make

2 up nearly 20 percent of our total student

3 population. We are trying desperately to

4 meet their unique academic needs with small

5 class sizes and intensive instruction to help

6 them achieve academically along their path

7 towards graduation.

8 The additional enrollment of

9 high-needs students each year without

10 adequate aid to support them continues to put

11 a tremendous amount of pressure on our

12 district's finances. We would ask that the

13 state consider a separate funding stream for

14 districts like Utica who have a high

15 concentration of English language learners,

16 in order to account for the higher cost of

17 educating students with high academic needs.

18 Even in the face of the overwhelming

19 challenges I have discussed, we are proud of

20 the fact that our school district continues

21 to make significant strides in student

22 performance. We currently have no schools in

23 receivership, with several of our schools

24 upgraded to good standing during the last

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1 school year. Our high school graduation rate

2 continues to climb each year and has

3 increased 7 percent over the past several

4 years.

5 We are currently working on expanding

6 our Career and Technical Education offerings

7 at our high school, which includes offering

8 six articulated pathways that students can

9 access and apply towards their graduation

10 credential. Although we have worked very

11 closely with our regional BOCES and students

12 are bused there for CTE programming, we have

13 the student interest and student population

14 to further expand these programs in-house,

15 especially for our ELL students and students

16 with disabilities who would greatly benefit

17 from these programs.

18 Allowing the Utica City School

19 District to expand our programs by providing

20 the necessary funding stream to make these

21 Career and Technical Education Programs a

22 reality will help support our existing

23 programs.

24 While we are very proud of our

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1 accomplishments, we believe that we could be

2 doing so much more to support the academic

3 and socio-emotional needs of our students.

4 We know this because we received the

5 additional financial resources from the state

6 after a district school was placed into

7 receivership a couple of years ago. We were

8 able to utilize these resources to quickly

9 turn the school around and remove it from

10 receivership. We could only imagine the

11 possibilities for success if we receive the

12 funding we need before a school begins to

13 show any signs of trouble.

14 With this in mind, we would ask that

15 the state consider additional funding so

16 districts like Utica can sustain the

17 improvements made by our schools whose

18 accountability designations have been

19 upgraded.

20 Finally, unless the Utica City School

21 District is fully funded and an equitable

22 distribution of aid is made a reality,

23 high-poverty, high-needs school districts

24 like Utica will never fully recover from the

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1 endless cycle of massive budget deficits and

2 the devastating consequences that these

3 deficits have had on our ability to provide a

4 sound basic education to our children.

5 Once again, thank you for affording me

6 this opportunity to address this committee.

7 The Utica City School District is very

8 grateful for any financial support we are

9 able to receive as you work to finalize the

10 state budget.

11 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

12 much.

13 Assemblywoman Nolan.

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you very

15 much for all that you do. Very difficult,

16 challenging districts. I hope we have more

17 time to get together when -- we want to keep

18 the hearing going -- but I've had that

19 opportunity, so I know Shelley and others

20 have questions. But I just want to thank you

21 for being here and for waiting. It's always

22 a long day. So I hope to come up and get to

23 see you all again soon. Thank you.

24 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

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1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

2 I do have a couple of questions.

3 Mr. Karam, you talk about an influx or a

4 student population growth of 14 percent,

5 about 1500 students. And probably all of

6 your districts have had an increase in

7 student population, which actually isn't the

8 norm for upstate New York, where we've been

9 losing population over the past several

10 years.

11 Are most of the student growth numbers

12 related -- because you pointed out 20 percent

13 of your population is refugee or immigrant.

14 You know, would all of you agree, if you have

15 student growth in the population numbers, is

16 it mostly because of refugee or immigrant

17 students?

18 SUPERINTENDENT KARAM: Yes.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Okay. I had asked

20 Commissioner Elia earlier today about Part

21 154 of the regulations that were created by

22 State Ed in 2014, which resulted in unfunded

23 mandates for the districts. Are you having

24 issues finding teachers that are dually

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1 certified?

2 ALL PANELISTS: Yes. Yes, we are.

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Yes. So are you

4 having to double up and put two teachers in

5 one classroom in many cases?

6 SUPERINTENDENT KARAM: Sometimes, yes.

7 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Is that true? Does

8 somebody want to speak to that?

9 SUPERINTENDENT ALICEA: We are working

10 with the colleges in the area. We are

11 working closely with Syracuse University and

12 SUNY Oswego to get programs in ESL going in

13 our area. The big need that we have in

14 Syracuse is for the kids that we have to

15 provide bilingual education, and there are no

16 bilingual programs in the Syracuse area. So

17 we're working with Brockport and trying to

18 get programs in the Syracuse area.

19 One of the things that Syracuse is

20 going to be doing in September, we're going

21 to start our own career program in one of the

22 high schools to grow our own teachers. We

23 know that they are already in Syracuse, they

24 are going to our schools, so we're going to

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1 get our own grown -- our own teacher program

2 in September.

3 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

4 SUPERINTENDENT QUEZADA: And I think

5 it's important to note for all of us that a

6 student that begins in our district as an

7 English language learner, the state requires

8 and the federal government requires that we

9 continue to service that young person for

10 another two years, and no additional services

11 are provided. No additional funding, rather,

12 are provided.

13 It's important to note that just

14 because the youngster achieves success in the

15 NYSED slot, that in no way, shape or form

16 means that the child is ready to perform at a

17 high level in the general education

18 classroom.

19 So although our numbers are below

20 20 percent, I would say that for all of us

21 the number of English language learners, with

22 our long-term ELLs -- for which we do not

23 receive any additional funding either -- plus

24 those students that have recently been

315

1 removed from ESL, the percentage of English

2 language learners is much higher than the

3 identified number.

4 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So if you had to

5 make this up by taking money from other parts

6 of your programming as far as providing

7 double teachers, that sort of thing, how have

8 you dealt with that? Dr. Cash, you're

9 shaking your head.

10 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: I don't think

11 that would be a good solution for us from a

12 cost standpoint. It's a --

13 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I'm just wondering

14 how you've dealt with it. Because this is an

15 unfunded mandate on the districts, right?

16 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: We haven't been

17 dealing effectively with it. This is an

18 issue where it's a mandate, but we don't have

19 the numbers of qualified teachers to assist

20 with the demand. So we've been having --

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Right. So it's

22 just a shortage of teachers who --

23 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: We push in

24 qualified teachers where we can, and when we

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1 can. We don't -- I don't have enough. And

2 other colleagues can speak for themselves.

3 But we need a significant huddle around this

4 issue. And that's why we align our requests

5 with what the commissioner asked for earlier.

6 We're very much in alignment with her

7 request. She talks with us all the time, and

8 we concur that this is the need.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Shelley?

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Thank you.

12 Thank you very much, all of you. And

13 it's good to see even in these challenges

14 your performances of your students has

15 continued to get better as we've tried to

16 push more money into these districts.

17 I just -- Dr. Quezada, you mentioned a

18 $38 million shortfall basically for a

19 stay-even budget, and that -- just to

20 clarify, that is after the add that is in the

21 Governor's proposed budget?

22 SUPERINTENDENT QUEZADA: That is

23 correct, Assemblywoman.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: So if you were

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1 to just maintain the status quo and you have

2 this $38 million shortfall, if you were to be

3 able to fill that shortfall, what are the

4 services that you could actually add? For

5 example, I don't know, can you add JV sports,

6 can you add art and music in every school,

7 can you add guidance counselors? Could you

8 just describe what you could do if you just

9 met this $38 million shortfall?

10 SUPERINTENDENT QUEZADA: Of course.

11 And, Assemblywoman Meyer, thank you for your

12 relentless commitment to supporting the

13 Yonkers public schools and the Big Five. You

14 are a champion in this work, so thank you so

15 very much.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Thank you.

17 SUPERINTENDENT QUEZADA: So

18 absolutely, $38 million, it will not give me

19 everything I need in my schools. As you well

20 know, I firmly believe that every school

21 should have a psychologist, social worker,

22 art teacher, music teacher, and so on and so

23 forth. However, the $38 million will

24 guarantee that I will have at least 10

318

1 additional psychologists, 10 additional

2 social workers, bring back JV sports,

3 increase the number of guidance counselors in

4 our schools, which are essential, and perhaps

5 provide some extended learning for our

6 students as well.

7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Okay, thank you.

8 And lastly, on this issue I've raised

9 before about the persistently struggling, we

10 have Roosevelt High School in our district

11 that was on the list, came off the list, and

12 now has an 86 percent graduation rate, which

13 is a great accomplishment. How much money is

14 owed to Roosevelt High School under the

15 statutory scheme that we adopted?

16 SUPERINTENDENT QUEZADA: So the

17 immediate answer is $1.8 million that was

18 guaranteed to us two years ago, and in two

19 years we transformed the high school. It's a

20 high school that is a model high school in

21 New York State. And it was because there was

22 additional funding and additional support.

23 However, that -- those dollars were

24 taken away. And that is just incredible that

319

1 that actually took place. So we need to

2 bring those dollars back.

3 And similarly, as you well know, we

4 have $75 million out there that was

5 appropriated last year for our persistently

6 struggling and struggling schools. I don't

7 know where those dollars are. I'm still

8 waiting for them. I'm supposed to create

9 three community schools, and we are ready to

10 do that. However, our districts have not

11 received those fundings yet.

12 So we would very much appreciate if we

13 figure out where are those $75 million. And

14 Yonkers desperately needs its share, as we

15 all do.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Thank you very

17 much. Thank you, Dr. Quezada.

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

19 Senator Marcellino.

20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you for

21 coming. I appreciate your efforts, and I

22 appreciate the work you do.

23 I was looking at some numbers of the

24 ELL students that went into your districts.

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1 You seem to have gotten a fairly high

2 percentage. What is the percentage of ELL

3 students in your districts?

4 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: I'm sure it

5 varies district to district. For us, we have

6 between 5,000 and 6,000 students, so that

7 particular population -- the overall

8 population of 32,000 has remained fairly flat

9 for 10 years, but the ELL population within

10 that population has grown steadily and

11 significantly.

12 It's -- the percentage issue overall

13 is less the issue for us than in certain

14 schools and in certain communities. We have

15 some schools with as high as 57 percent ELL

16 students, for example. And that is just a

17 school that requires --

18 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Are they all on

19 level, or do they need remedial work?

20 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: I'm sorry?

21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Are they on level

22 or are they --

23 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: No.

24 SENATOR MARCELLINO: As I suspect,

321

1 they need remedial work.

2 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: These would be

3 priority schools, schools that need

4 significant improvement and support.

5 SUPERINTENDENT QUEZADA: For us in

6 Yonkers, the identified student is

7 12 percent. However, I spoke about the

8 long-term ELLs, and I also spoke about those

9 students that were recently declassified as

10 English language learners. And there's

11 another population that we are all extremely

12 concerned, and that is those young people

13 that are English language learners and are

14 also students with disabilities. And that

15 requires a special approach, and funding is

16 desperately needed to ensure that we are

17 addressing the needs of those young people.

18 SUPERINTENDENT ALICEA: For Syracuse,

19 as I said before, it's almost 16 percent of

20 our students, with 3,500. We're getting a

21 lot of students that are coming to school

22 with interrupted instruction or that they

23 have no previous schooling before, so we have

24 to provide services to those students also.

322

1 SUPERINTENDENT DEANE-WILLIAMS:

2 Rochester is about 14 percent. We're seeing

3 increases as well with the same kinds of

4 challenges that are being seen by my peers

5 across the state.

6 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: The short

7 answer, sir, is 20 percent.

8 SENATOR MARCELLINO: What percentage

9 of your teachers are fully certified in

10 license, in subject area?

11 SUPERINTENDENT ALICEA: In all areas?

12 SENATOR MARCELLINO: The district, the

13 whole district.

14 SUPERINTENDENT ALICEA: The whole

15 district? In Syracuse it's about 96 percent

16 of our teachers are certified.

17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Certified and

18 licensed in the subject areas they teach?

19 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: I don't think he

20 heard the question.

21 SENATOR MARCELLINO: When I taught in

22 the city schools --

23 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: If I heard the

24 question, it's what percentage of our

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1 teachers are fully certified to teach in the

2 subject they teach.

3 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Yeah. My next

4 question is going to be are you fully

5 staffed.

6 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: No.

7 SUPERINTENDENT ALICEA: No.

8 SUPERINTENDENT QUEZADA: No.

9 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: But close to a

10 hundred percent fully certified.

11 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Of the teachers

12 that are teaching, they're fully certified.

13 But of the -- so nobody is teaching out of

14 license, is what you're saying?

15 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: Yes.

16 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Or 90-some

17 percent are teaching in-license.

18 But are you -- do you have a full

19 complement of teachers?

20 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: We have

21 shortages.

22 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Because I was

23 going to say, when I taught in the city many

24 years ago, we had a good 10,000 teachers

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1 teaching out of license, they just -- you

2 couldn't get them at that point in time.

3 There was no way. So we were forced to take

4 people in and plug them into classrooms.

5 Thank you very much. Appreciate the

6 work you do.

7 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: Thank you.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Further questions?

9 Thank you all very much.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you for all

11 you do.

12 SUPERINTENDENT CASH: Thank you.

13 appreciate your time.

14 SUPERINTENDENT ALICEA: Thank you.

15 SUPERINTENDENT DEANE-WILLIAMS: Thank

16 you.

17 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Safe home.

18 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Alliance for

19 Quality Education, Jasmine Griper,

20 legislative director. "Gripper" I think is

21 better.

22 (Laughter.)

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Good afternoon.

24 MS. GRIPPER: Good afternoon.

325

1 Chairwoman Nolan and Chairwoman Young, thank

2 you, Chairmen Farrell and Marcellino, thank

3 you for giving me the opportunity to testify

4 on behalf of the Alliance for Quality

5 Education regarding the 2017-'18 Executive

6 Budget proposal. My name is Jasmine Gripper.

7 I am the legislative director for the

8 Alliance for Quality Education.

9 The Executive proposal is grossly

10 inadequate. The Governor proposes to erase

11 the state's commitment to fully funding its

12 constitutional obligation to a sound basic

13 education by eliminating the Foundation Aid

14 formula starting in the 2018-'19 school year.

15 This proposal would only perpetuate

16 systematic racist policies of leaving schools

17 that educate black and brown students

18 woefully underresourced and underfunded.

19 Fifty-eight percent of the unpaid

20 Foundation Aid is owed to black and brown

21 students.

22 In these uncertain times of Donald

23 Trump and Betsy DeVos, they pose a clear and

24 present threat to our public schools in New

326

1 York State. However, Governor Cuomo's budget

2 proposal actually proposes the greatest harm

3 to our schools. He is proposing to repeal

4 the Foundation Aid formula. The vast

5 majority of this funding is owed to schools

6 with high concentrations of economically

7 disadvantaged students and students with

8 disabilities and black and brown students.

9 Governor Cuomo's proposal to repeal the

10 $4.3 billion in Foundation Aid commitments

11 exceeds the total of all federal funding to

12 New York schools by $1.8 billion.

13 Any repeal of the $4.3 billion in

14 Foundation Aid is entirely unacceptable and

15 would do irreparable damage to the education

16 of New York's 3 million students.

17 This is not an upstate versus

18 downstate, large city versus small city, or

19 rural versus suburban issue. For instance,

20 Jamestown schools are owed $10.3 million in

21 Foundation Aid; Rochester is owed

22 $93 million; Utica is owed $47 million in

23 Foundation Aid; Brentwood is owed

24 $138 million; Ossining is owed $16 million;

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1 New York City is owed $1.9 billion.

2 High-need rural schools are owed $191 million

3 in Foundation Aid. This is a representative

4 sampling of students in schools throughout

5 the state that would be deprived of

6 educational opportunities they deserve if the

7 Foundation Aid formula is repealed as

8 proposed by Governor Cuomo.

9 Our recommendation is that you deliver

10 a resounding rejection of the Executive

11 proposal to repeal Foundation Aid and instead

12 add an adequate amount of funding in order to

13 get back on track with CFE with a two-year

14 phase-in of the Foundation Aid formula.

15 For pre-kindergarten outside of

16 New York City, the overwhelming majority of

17 4-year-olds, 81 percent are denied access to

18 full-day pre-K still. In addition, there are

19 seven different pre-K programs with different

20 requirements and different standards, with

21 expiration dates. We recommend that the

22 enacted budget begins the process of

23 consolidating these different programs and

24 increase access by allocating $150 million.

328

1 We also welcome the proposal to consolidate

2 the Priority Pre-K and the Universal Pre-K

3 Program.

4 For the Community Schools, Community

5 Schools are a proven-to-work strategy. The

6 Executive proposal does not renew the

7 $75 million grant. The state had made the

8 investment in last year's budget, which was

9 smart and cost-effective. It would be unwise

10 and fiscally irresponsible to not continue to

11 expand access and funding to Community

12 Schools.

13 We also want to support solutions and

14 not suspensions, so we support including

15 $50 million to support safe and healthy

16 schools for New York students through

17 competitive grants to develop or expand

18 school models that reduce the reliance on

19 suspensions and expulsions and school-based

20 arrests and reduce disparities in school

21 discipline and provide a safe and supportive

22 school climate for students.

23 Thank you for your time and your

24 consideration. Please read my full testimony

329

1 for more details on these recommendations,

2 and I'm happy to take comments or questions.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

4 Any questions?

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: So how bad would

6 it be if we didn't have Foundation Aid?

7 MS. GRIPPER: If we didn't have

8 Foundation aid, we would lose the

9 predictability in school funding formulas

10 that schools depend on. For our high-needs

11 school districts, who are already dealing

12 with overcrowded classrooms, who don't have

13 access to JV sports, who don't have access to

14 music and art, those students would not get

15 access to the educational opportunities they

16 deserve.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I asked some of

18 the earlier witnesses if they thought that

19 the article in the Daily News that said CFE

20 was a one-off -- even though Michael Rebell I

21 thought answered that -- how would you

22 respond to that, that CFE is finished or it

23 was a one-off or doesn't need to be

24 addressed?

330

1 MS. GRIPPER: It still needs to be

2 addressed. CFE was the constitutional

3 obligation of the state Governor and the

4 Legislature. The Foundation Aid was enacted

5 in order to satisfy that court case.

6 We have not met the needs of students.

7 When you look at schools around New York

8 State, as you hear from people today, all the

9 things that are missing in our schools, we

10 are still not meeting with the constitutional

11 obligation of providing students with a

12 quality education.

13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

15 Senator?

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: We're all set.

17 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

18 much.

19 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

20 MS. GRIPPER: Thank you for your time.

21 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Oh, I'm sorry,

22 Assemblyman Lopez. I keep forgetting.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you,

24 Chairman. I'll make it brief.

331

1 Jasmine, thank you for joining us.

2 So again, I know that we are in step

3 with the issue of high need, low wealth. I

4 understand that is part of your mission. I'm

5 also looking at outlying schools in rural

6 areas. I guess my question for you, in your

7 organization's opinion, does Foundation Aid,

8 if fully funded, does it still get at the

9 desperate divergence in our schools, the lack

10 of opportunity, the lack of Advanced

11 Placement, all these other burdens with

12 poverty, special needs -- does Foundation Aid

13 alone do it, or do we need to come back and

14 reconsider the weights for supplemental

15 funding for poverty, for English language,

16 for special ed?

17 Do we need to change the weights, or

18 do we need to look at some supplemental

19 funding to offset and make all schools equal,

20 give every student an equal chance?

21 MS. GRIPPER: So the biggest problem

22 with the Foundation Aid formula is it's not

23 being funded. It was intended to go with at

24 least a billion dollars going through

332

1 Foundation Aid each year, which the

2 Legislature has not done in several years,

3 since the two years that they started to

4 fulfill the case.

5 We do agree that there could be some

6 tweaks and modifications made to the

7 Foundation Aid formula in order to increase

8 weighting for English language learners,

9 there's one example where the weighting could

10 be increased. And there are other

11 modifications that we can consider. But by

12 no means can we repeal the Foundation Aid

13 formula. It is the fairest formula we have

14 on the books. And the biggest problem is not

15 using it and putting enough dollars into the

16 funding formula.

17 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: So just to finish

18 my line of questioning, so recognizing our

19 collective challenge of providing full

20 funding -- absent that, my observation is we

21 have schools that may be overfunded and

22 schools that may be underfunded. And so my

23 premise is, are there things we should and

24 could be doing now, absent being fully

333

1 funded, that can provide meaningful relief to

2 high-need, low-wealth schools?

3 MS. GRIPPER: I mean, the way to

4 provide adequate relief to high-need

5 low-wealth schools is to put more funding

6 into those schools. And simply the proposal

7 before us is completely inadequate, and we

8 need a significant increase. The Board of

9 Regents is recommending $2.1 billion, and

10 that's a step in the right direction.

11 Anything below that is leaving our kids left

12 in the dust.

13 We by no means are supporting an

14 effort to take from wealthy districts to give

15 to low-income districts. The reality is

16 New York has some of the best schools in the

17 country, but they're only located in certain

18 zip codes. What we want to make sure is that

19 all kids, no matter what zip code they live

20 in, have access to a quality education. And

21 the only way we can do that is if the state

22 increases its responsibility to these schools

23 and provides more funding.

24 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you,

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1 Jasmine. Thank you, Chairman.

2 MS. GRIPPER: Thank you.

3 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

4 much.

5 Next, New York State Council of School

6 Superintendents, Robert Lowry, deputy

7 director.

8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Jasmine, keep

9 fighting.

10 MR. LOWRY: Chairwoman Young, Chairman

11 Farrell, other members of the Assembly and

12 Senate, thank you very much for this

13 opportunity, and thank you for your past

14 efforts to support our schools, ending the

15 GEA and preserving Foundation Aid. Your

16 efforts have made a difference.

17 We also appreciate the uncertainties

18 that you'll face and the Governor has faced

19 in trying to put together a budget, given

20 what's happened with state revenues and the

21 prospects of perhaps drastic change at the

22 federal level.

23 Our members are accustomed to dealing

24 with financial uncertainties as well, and in

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1 our exchanges with them we detect as much

2 concern about the long term as about the year

3 immediately ahead.

4 Last November, the Educational

5 Conference Board identified a need for a

6 $1.5 billion increase in school aid, given a

7 set of moderate assumptions about school

8 costs -- not a wish list, but assumptions

9 based on independent sources. The Governor's

10 budget would increase school aid by

11 $961 million, but $150 million of that would

12 be unallocated in a fiscal stabilization

13 fund, another $100 million or so would be

14 devoted to categorical initiatives. That

15 leaves about $718 million right now that

16 districts can identify as available to help

17 them meet this $1.5 billion need that we

18 see -- about half that total.

19 We support a number of the

20 programmatic initiatives: Expanding

21 Community Schools, expanding pre-K, providing

22 opportunities to better connect high school

23 and what comes next, whether it's P-TECH or

24 AP fee waivers. We hope that that would also

336

1 be joined by increasing BOCES and special

2 services aid to support Career and Technical

3 Education.

4 We're troubled by the proposal to

5 unfreeze charter school tuition and to

6 implement transition aid on a year lag. That

7 would create a significant hit on school

8 district budgets that they'd have to absorb

9 within their tax cap.

10 A word that we hear over and over

11 again in our exchanges with superintendents

12 is sustainability. We've done surveys each

13 of the last six years about financial

14 questions; we've seen a change in the last

15 couple, more superintendents saying their

16 district's financial position has improved,

17 but still there's a lot of pessimism and

18 those gains are fragile.

19 We see a need for a four-part agenda

20 to create a more sustainable future. It

21 begins with continuing and updating the

22 Foundation Aid formula. And on that score,

23 I'd say the Governor's proposal is a doubly

24 disappointing retreat. First, because the

337

1 2007 formula was a significant

2 accomplishment. It generally directed the

3 greatest aid per pupil to the neediest

4 districts, and it still does. It promised

5 all districts greater predictability in aid

6 going forward, and it also used elements that

7 have some basis in facts that makes state

8 funding decisions more transparent and more

9 accountable.

10 But leaving aside questions about what

11 the state owes as a result of the CFE

12 decision, having a formula like Foundation

13 Aid that creates some predictability is a

14 cornerstone in building a more sustainable

15 system. Some other parts to that would be

16 adjustments in the tax cap. It's advertised

17 as a 2 percent tax cap, but it hasn't been

18 for the last path four years. Making the

19 starting point for the tax cap 2 percent, not

20 the lesser of 2 percent or inflation, and

21 couple that with a carryover provision that

22 gives districts an incentive to hold their

23 levy increases below that if they can manage

24 it.

338

1 We also see a need to help school

2 districts control costs, and my written

3 testimony includes some ideas for that.

4 Frankly, I don't have a lot of optimism that

5 we'll see significant action on mandate

6 relief or change in the tax cap. So part of

7 our message is if the state is not going to

8 change these rules, then it has to fund the

9 rules by continuing to provide strong

10 increases in state aid -- for example, as the

11 Foundation formula would provide.

12 Finally, we would say give school

13 districts access to reserves like local

14 governments have. We read the Comptroller's

15 audits finding that some schools have more

16 money in reserve than the law allows, but

17 frankly not all the laws make sense. And the

18 Comptroller's own report in 2010, on the

19 first five years of school district audits,

20 recommended some additional ways to allow

21 districts to put money into reserve.

22 Our priority would be a reserve for

23 Teachers Retirement System obligations.

24 Local governments can essentially set aside

339

1 funds for all their pension obligations;

2 school districts can only do it for the

3 20 percent who are in the Employees

4 Retirement System, not the 80 percent who are

5 in the Teachers Retirement System.

6 Finally, I'd conclude by urging you to

7 reject the proposal to give the Governor's

8 budget director unilateral authority to

9 impose reductions and amounts available to be

10 spent in the event of a shortfall in

11 receipts. The potential impact of drastic

12 federal changes is something that we should

13 all be concerned about, but you and your

14 colleagues should have a hand in making the

15 decisions of how to deal with that

16 eventuality if it comes.

17 And finally, we would hope that you

18 would make every effort to avoid midyear cuts

19 in state aid to schools if budget reductions

20 become necessary.

21 So thank you, and I'd be happy to try

22 and answer any questions.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Questions?

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Just quickly.

340

1 You know, we so appreciate, Bob, your

2 expertise. You know that. I rely on you, as

3 many of us do in the Legislature, to make the

4 dry language of these things clear and

5 understandable.

6 If we were to ever -- obviously I

7 don't want to ever see us do this. But what

8 would be some of the consequences do you

9 think if we were to move away from a

10 Foundation Aid formula that's fair, based on

11 high-needs kids? What would be some of the

12 consequences of that?

13 MR. LOWRY: Well, I think, you know --

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: You and I were

15 both around for the old system, let's just

16 say that, so ...

17 MR. LOWRY: You know, first of all,

18 again, I really think it was a significant

19 accomplishment for all the reasons that I

20 elaborated. And it would be a shame to lose

21 that.

22 And again, part of what we hear from

23 superintendents is a concern about

24 sustainability over the long haul, having

341

1 predictability. Most other states have aid

2 formulas that continue from year to year, and

3 we used to have that in New York State, so

4 losing that predictability. But with the tax

5 cap as tight as it is, and with the

6 consequence that if you don't get your budget

7 approved by the voters you can't increase

8 your tax levy at all, that makes schools even

9 more dependent on state aid. And that's one

10 of the attractions of the Foundation formula.

11 Yes, it would generate large increases, but

12 we would need large increases given the

13 restrictions of the tax cap and some of the

14 cost pressures that schools face.

15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you.

16 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

17 Senator?

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: We're all set,

19 thank you. Thanks, Bob.

20 SENATOR MARCELLINO: No, we're not.

21 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Oh, I'm sorry.

22 Senator Marcellino.

23 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Just one. Just

24 one.

342

1 Thanks for coming. Good thing that

2 you're awake at this hour. I'm barely.

3 We have a very high tax state, we have

4 a population decline statewide, upstate much

5 worse than downstate, but it's there. I

6 agree with you the property tax cap number

7 should never be negative, and we have to look

8 at that and make sure that that's fixed.

9 But we are in a position where people

10 can't stay in their homes. They can't afford

11 to stay in their homes. Average citizens,

12 senior citizens on a retirement basis can't

13 live here, so they have to leave. Not

14 necessarily because they want to, they just

15 have to. So I'm not too sure that that's

16 what we want to do to people, force them out.

17 I don't think you need to do that or you want

18 to do that.

19 But give us some thoughts. How can we

20 keep them here?

21 MR. LOWRY: You know, when the tax cap

22 was being debated, we said our position was

23 so simple it could be expressed in 10 words:

24 Tax caps will hurt our schools, there are

343

1 better options.

2 The better options, the state needs to

3 be a reliable partner in funding schools.

4 The Foundation Aid is an attempt to do that.

5 Second, provide a circuit breaker that

6 can target the greatest help to the people

7 who are most stressed by your taxes.

8 Finally, help schools with costs. And

9 you know, some of the ideas that would make a

10 meaningful difference just simply aren't on

11 the table right now, like amending the

12 Triborough Law, limiting step increases after

13 an expired contract. My testimony identifies

14 some other steps that could be taken.

15 Health insurance, in my written

16 testimony I have a lot of comments from

17 superintendents, and a lot of them concern

18 the soaring cost of health insurance for

19 them. Let's receive a joint committee of

20 labor and management to identify strategies,

21 put both sides at the table, identify ways

22 that we could perhaps save money on health

23 insurance, reduce costs for both school

24 districts and their employees and retirees.

344

1 There are other measures that we've

2 talked about in the past -- you know, greater

3 reliance on shared services, regional high

4 schools in places where they're just

5 frankly -- in that case it's more running out

6 of kids to be able to support a comprehensive

7 education. I'd be happy to give you more

8 ideas. But again, I think the fact of the

9 matter is 75 percent of school spending is in

10 personnel; it's hard to save significant sums

11 without looking at different changes in that

12 area.

13 SENATOR MARCELLINO: Thank you.

14 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you.

15 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

16 Further? Thank you very much.

17 Next, Council of School Supervisors

18 and Administrators, CSA, Mark Cannizzaro,

19 executive vice president.

20 MR. CANNIZZARO: Good afternoon,

21 everyone, and Happy Valentine's Day.

22 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: The same to you.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Yes, thank you.

24 MR. CANNIZZARO: Thank you. Thank

345

1 you.

2 Assemblymember Farrell, Senator Young,

3 Senator Marcellino and Assemblymember Nolan,

4 thank you for this opportunity to present

5 testimony today.

6 I would also just like to comment -- I

7 know they're no longer here, but it was so

8 nice to see so many members of the Board of

9 Regents here this morning showing a real

10 collaborative effort. And from listening to

11 what I've heard transpire the last several

12 hours, I really do see such a willingness and

13 a want to try to fully fund our schools for

14 the children of New York State. So thank you

15 for that commitment, it is great to see and

16 hear.

17 My name is Mark Cannizzaro. I'm the

18 executive vice president of the Council of

19 School Supervisors and Administrators. CSA

20 is a labor organization. We represent 6100

21 active and 10,000 retired principals,

22 assistant principals, educational

23 administrators and other supervisors working

24 in the New York city public schools. We do

346

1 represent five charter schools, and we're

2 also the collective bargaining unit for 200

3 Early Childhood directors and assistant

4 directors who work in New York City-

5 subsidized Early Childhood Education Centers.

6 Most of my colleagues this morning

7 have touched on the most important parts of

8 my testimony today, number one being

9 Foundation Aid. We understand that there is

10 an increase on the table; it is certainly not

11 an adequate increase. At this time, New York

12 is owed, according to this formula,

13 $4.3 billion had the phase-in been fully

14 implemented already.

15 We worked on the GEA elimination last

16 year, and we ask you to turn your attention

17 to doing the same with Foundation Aid this

18 year, fully fund our schools within the next

19 three years, and reject the Executive Budget

20 proposal to repeal the Foundation Aid

21 formula. We understand that difficult

22 decisions need to be made. We are certainly

23 not experts in the entire New York State

24 budget in order to make those decisions, but

347

1 we do know that the costs will be greater if

2 we do not fully fund the education of our

3 children in New York State.

4 The only other piece I would like to

5 speak to you about this afternoon is school

6 leader professional development, an area that

7 nationally is sorely lacking from the

8 educational conversations. Recently the

9 federal government has said that 3 percent of

10 funding, Title III funding, could be put

11 aside for professional development for school

12 leaders. We think this is a wonderful idea

13 and certainly a necessary one.

14 The role and work of our instructional

15 leaders has become even more crucial in

16 recent years as policymakers have focused on

17 supporting student achievement and

18 eliminating college and career readiness gaps

19 among our youth. To ensure that school

20 leaders successfully manage and meet the

21 ongoing challenges as well as succeed as

22 instructional leaders, New York State must

23 provide our principals and assistant

24 principals with access to ongoing

348

1 professional development. The research-based

2 literature related to effective schools and

3 student achievement has long acknowledged the

4 critical role of principals in providing

5 school leadership that will shape a highly

6 human organization into a cohesive and

7 collaborative community of learners.

8 A number of years ago, CSA

9 established, for those very reasons, the

10 Executive Leadership Institute. It is a

11 nonprofit organization designed to deliver

12 practical, relevant and essential

13 professional development for today's school

14 leaders. ELI provides standards-based,

15 results-driven leadership training to help

16 school leaders successfully fulfill their

17 responsibilities as instructional leaders.

18 We need to invest in more of this kind of

19 high-level training and support. ELI's

20 programs give school leaders the tools they

21 need to create true learning communities.

22 It should be noted that ELI is also a

23 registered provider for CTLE instruction or

24 professional development through the state's

349

1 new professional development mandates, one of

2 the few already registered in New York State.

3 It should also be mentioned that as

4 challenges come, ELI is at the ready. With

5 changes to English language learners

6 regulations this year, ELI quickly put

7 together some quality professional

8 development and has been working with school

9 leaders throughout New York City and New York

10 State.

11 The Dignity for All Students Act, ELI

12 is a provider and has already done seven or

13 eight workshops with several hundred folks

14 attending so that they can be certified in

15 the DASA training.

16 We have met the early requirements of

17 ESSA, and we look forward to continuing, as

18 ESSA fully rolls out, to support our leaders

19 with that.

20 We also have to acknowledge and

21 provide our thanks and let you know how

22 grateful we are that this body has approved

23 $475,000 in appropriation for ELI in the

24 past, with many of your strong support. We

350

1 need these professional development services

2 to continue not only in New York City but

3 throughout this state.

4 We have been working with other

5 professional organizations to provide this

6 professional development. We've worked in

7 Long Island as well as upstate New York.

8 With your help and support, ELI's programs

9 can grow, providing standards-based,

10 high-quality and results-driven leadership

11 training to help school administrators in

12 New York City and New York State.

13 We ask for your continued support in

14 that very important work. And we certainly,

15 as we do every year, invite you to come to

16 see some of our trainings. The summertime is

17 probably the best time. We'd love to have

18 you down as we do summer workshops for a

19 couple of weeks in July.

20 I appreciate the time given. If

21 anyone has any questions for me, I would be

22 happy to entertain them now.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Yes. Questions?

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Just principals

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1 are always very concise. It was terrific

2 testimony, thank you.

3 MR. CANNIZZARO: Oh, thank you.

4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: School leaders.

5 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: We're all set.

7 Thank you very much.

8 MR. CANNIZZARO: Okay, thank you very

9 much.

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Cynthia Gallagher,

11 director, government relations, School

12 Administrators Association of New York State,

13 SAANYS.

14 MS. GALLAGHER: Honorable members of

15 the Senate Finance and Assembly Ways and

16 Means Committees, thank you and good

17 afternoon. I appreciate this opportunity to

18 provide testimony on the Executive Budget for

19 '17-'18.

20 I am Cynthia Gallagher. I'm the

21 director of government relations for the

22 School Administrators Association of New York

23 State. We are the largest professional

24 association of school leaders, with a

352

1 membership of over 7,000 members. And on

2 behalf of those principals, assistant

3 principals, directors, deans, supervisors,

4 and lots of others titles, we thank you very

5 much for your energy, for your commitment,

6 and for your ongoing support of public

7 education.

8 I'd like to present this testimony

9 through the eyes of the school leader. Their

10 perspective is as unique as there are roles

11 in school districts. Every day it is a race

12 to meet the needs of students, parents,

13 teachers, support staff, community leaders,

14 parents, board members, and superintendents.

15 And while being responsive, they are still

16 responsible for the core missions of schools,

17 which is the education and assessment

18 programs, safety, environment, comprehensive

19 reporting, and achievement and improvement as

20 well as 100 -- probably more than 100 --

21 reporting requirements from all of us.

22 And their jobs take place in a very

23 dynamic and sometimes volatile environment.

24 So what would a school leader expect out of a

353

1 state budget that would provide education

2 funds for them? Three things: Stability,

3 sustainability, and support.

4 In sustainability, we are requesting

5 just two things, and you've heard them before

6 today. A Foundation Aid that is predictable.

7 Help us predict at least part of a position

8 that most times is highly unpredictable. We

9 ask that the Foundation Aid formula be set

10 again and phased in, as have my colleagues in

11 their former testimony -- as well, the

12 property tax to be either the higher of

13 2 percent of the CPI or at fixed amounts so

14 that we can also predict that piece of state

15 aid.

16 Sustainability. Governor Cuomo

17 recently stated, and we applaud his

18 statement, that New York State would continue

19 to be a welcoming and open state. That

20 affirmation starts with a public education

21 that meets the needs of every student that

22 arrives at our front door. A Foundation Aid

23 that will support those students is the first

24 line of our responsibility. So we, like our

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1 colleagues, support an increase over last

2 year's State Budget of $2.1 billion.

3 We have four priority areas for that

4 funding -- certainly you've heard it again.

5 Students with English language needs as well

6 as multi-language needs, we suggest starting

7 the phase-in formula again, as well as

8 perhaps an upward-weighting of ELL and MLL

9 students to meet their needs going forward.

10 We certainly would look for use of

11 that money for Career and Technical programs.

12 We know of their success, you've heard that

13 this morning. In terms of students who

14 participate in schools with CTE programs, the

15 graduation rate for those students tends to

16 be about 93 percent as compared to an

17 applaudable 79 percent, which is an increase

18 of students in schools without the CTE

19 programs. So we would love to see that

20 continue, and certainly CTE will be a

21 priority for our association.

22 Lastly, universal pre-K. We applaud

23 the $5 million increase and would like to

24 submit that that would be just a start for

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1 this year, as well as we applaud the merging

2 of the seven funds. But at that rate, the

3 fundings will be merged together by 2021.

4 For those of you who have been around, as I

5 have been, in pre-K, we know that that

6 program started in 1967. Those first pre-K

7 students will be ready for retirement by the

8 time the seven funding areas are merged. So

9 we would ask for a quickened timeframe for

10 those programs to be combined into one. Our

11 school districts and our principals and our

12 administrators certainly need it.

13 The last area that we would ask out of

14 a budget as a school leader is to be

15 supportive. And we, like my former

16 colleague, would request that there be money

17 put in for our school leaders for

18 professional development. It certainly has

19 been an area that has been lacking in prior

20 years, and we would be very supportive of the

21 State Education Department's request for

22 $30 million to support the professional

23 development of our school leaders.

24 So if you like the succinct nature of

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1 school leaders, I hope that this would

2 suffice for that kind of brevity, but with

3 the idea that we do ask three things:

4 Stability, sustainability, and support.

5 So thank you for this opportunity

6 today, and we thank you for your support in

7 the ongoing years.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

9 Questions?

10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you very much.

11 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you.

12 MS. GALLAGHER: You're welcome.

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Dr. Bernadette

14 Kappen, executive director and chair, 4201

15 School Associations.

16 DR. KAPPEN: Good afternoon. Thank

17 you so much for having us here today.

18 As the chair of the 420l Schools

19 Association, I represent nine schools that

20 are private schools, state-supported, that

21 are serving children that are deaf, blind,

22 and children with severe physical

23 disabilities throughout New York State. Even

24 though our schools are located maybe in a

357

1 particular city, we serve a wide range of

2 students, not just in that particular area

3 that we serve our children.

4 I want to express our appreciation for

5 the opportunity to talk with you today and

6 for information that we received in the

7 Executive Budget.

8 To begin, I'd like to thank the

9 legislators. They've been our true

10 supporters, each and every year, for the

11 students. We appreciate the 2.4 percent

12 increase that was provided in last year's

13 budget, and this increase resulted in a

14 $2.3 million increase for our schools. And

15 this was the first time in six years, the

16 past six years, that we received an increase.

17 And this was really welcomed. It probably

18 brought us from 2008 up to what our -- back

19 to 2008, what our current amount is now. So

20 we're really helpful for being able to

21 continue and provide and invest in our

22 teachers.

23 We talked a lot about that here today,

24 investment in the teachers, and this is

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1 really critical for children with special

2 needs. At all of our schools we have highly

3 qualified staff, staff who are certified in

4 their area of specialization -- that could be

5 deafness, blindness, or in the area of

6 special ed for the physically disabled

7 children -- and they're also certified in

8 their subject area or the grade level that

9 they service.

10 What's happening at our schools -- we

11 have highly qualified folks, and because of

12 the struggles that we've had with our

13 finances, these individuals often will leave

14 our schools -- they can walk out the door in

15 New York City and immediately have $15,000

16 added to their salary compared to what we can

17 offer. So we really do appreciate what's in

18 the Executive Budget, and this hopefully will

19 continue to help us invest in our teachers

20 and the professional staff that work with our

21 children.

22 It's really the staff that creates the

23 environment for the children and those

24 relationships, particularly for children who

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1 come to us with very special needs. And many

2 of our children come to us and they're way

3 behind in their levels, and the teachers

4 bring them up fairly quickly. It's not just

5 about the school academics that we need for

6 our children, it's really working on

7 communication for those children that are

8 deaf and appearing -- and socialization for

9 all of our children.

10 We'd like to, in our proposal, ask for

11 parity with the school aid that would be

12 offered and that any additional investments

13 in public education would be considered for

14 our children as well. I believe, as do the

15 people in the association, that our children

16 are deserving in this area, and they have

17 unique needs that require this level of

18 support.

19 I was listening today about outcomes,

20 and I'll share with you -- we know that the

21 graduation outcomes in New York City were

22 reported at about 72.6 percent of children

23 graduating. I can tell you at our school,

24 and most of the 4201 schools, we have

360

1 100 percent graduation rates. And these are

2 children with low-incidence disabilities. In

3 the Bronx, the graduation rate was

4 64.8 percent. So whatever investment is made

5 into the 4201 schools for special needs

6 children, I think we deliver for the children

7 that we do service.

8 Many of the children at our schools

9 are children of color and Hispanic children.

10 They're reported as having lower graduation

11 rates. That does not happen at schools for

12 children that are in the 4201 Association.

13 They receive the same support as other

14 children.

15 The parity would really help us a lot

16 with the specialized equipment that's

17 required for our children, those children

18 that need Braille devices -- which are very

19 expensive -- for them to succeed. The deaf

20 children need visual alerting systems. And

21 children with special physical needs have

22 therapy equipment that's expensive to allow

23 them to participate.

24 I was looking today, when thinking

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1 about coming here, at a quote from Abigail

2 Adams. And she says: "Learning is not

3 attained by chance. It must be sought for

4 with ardor and attained with diligence." I

5 would say that's what happens at our schools.

6 And finally, we ask you to think about

7 short-term capital and long-term capital

8 needs of our students. Most of our schools

9 are old. The School for the Deaf, the

10 New York School for the Deaf in White Plains,

11 they're celebrating 200 years this year. The

12 New York Institute has just finished their

13 185th anniversary. So we have wonderful

14 campuses, but campuses that need care. And

15 we're looking to really focus on the health

16 and safety needs of the children. And that

17 could be with capital investments in boilers,

18 roofs, windows, fire alarm systems. So it's

19 not beautification, it's really what's needed

20 to make the environment suitable for the

21 children.

22 So we're asking you to consider a

23 $5 million support for us in the area of

24 short-term capital. We also are trying to

362

1 work together to engage with the Dormitory

2 Authority to provide services for long-term

3 capital needs.

4 So the 4201 schools are proud to be

5 part of the education system here in New York

6 State. We feel we partner with the State

7 Education Department. We are working

8 cooperatively with the school districts to

9 provide the best services we can for children

10 with low-incidence disabilities, and we ask

11 that you would try to help support us in

12 those areas.

13 And finally, JFK once said, "Let us

14 think of education as the means of developing

15 our greatest abilities, because in each of us

16 there is a private hope and dream which,

17 fulfilled, can be translated into a benefit

18 for everyone and greater strength for our

19 nation." And that's what we're all about for

20 our children.

21 Thank you.

22 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

23 much.

24 Questions? Yes, Mr. Otis.

363

1 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you. Thank

2 you for your testimony and for what you do.

3 One thing I'd like to delve in a

4 little more is if you could give some sort of

5 overview about the level of financial stress

6 for 4201 schools. What are the pressures in

7 the last few years in terms of schools being

8 able to provide services in a tight economic

9 environment with the labor-intensive service

10 that you're providing?

11 DR. KAPPEN: Yes, it is a struggle for

12 many of the schools. As you know, we have a

13 per-pupil charge where we receive tuition

14 from the school districts, and that often

15 presents a challenge. If you're not being

16 paid every month, you can count on that the

17 school districts eventually pay, but they

18 have hardships as well, so that holds us

19 back. We have some schools that have a very

20 difficult time even getting a credit line at

21 the banks because of the financial situation

22 that we're in.

23 We participate, and we're grateful for

24 that, in the New York State Employee

364

1 Retirement System, and that's a fairly large

2 payment that people have to pay out if we

3 want to do it in December to get that

4 discount rate. So it really does challenge

5 folks.

6 Over the years, I would say that at

7 our schools the children have additional

8 disabilities, maybe not just blind but have

9 other needs, so that increases the costs for

10 providing those services to the children.

11 Many of the children have additional

12 social/emotional areas that we deal with. So

13 I think that the type of population and then

14 the way we are funded has created increased

15 demands for us.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Are there

17 limitations in terms of multiple disabilities

18 and how schools are reimbursed? You don't

19 really get reimbursed fully for multiple --

20 DR. KAPPEN: Right, that's correct. I

21 mean, we're reimbursed basically on what your

22 disability is. And many of the children have

23 dual disabilities. Some of the children

24 could be deaf and blind that we have at our

365

1 school. The Schools for the Deaf also have

2 children that have vision problems in

3 addition to that, social/emotional problems.

4 Many of the schools have -- the children have

5 intellectual disabilities.

6 So you're really not reimbursed on the

7 severity of the disability, it's just

8 whatever your category is.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you very

10 much.

11 DR. KAPPEN: Yes.

12 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

13 Senators?

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I just want to say

15 thank you very much. And do you have a

16 lobbying day coming up?

17 DR. KAPPEN: Yes, we do. We're going

18 to come on March 1st with our great kids, so

19 we hope --

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Great.

21 DR. KAPPEN: -- to be able to see you

22 all.

23 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I always look

24 forward to seeing my friend Julia.

366

1 DR. KAPPEN: Great.

2 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So thank you so

3 much for all your great work.

4 DR. KAPPEN: Right. Thanks so much.

5 Thank you.

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

7 Bye-bye.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

9 New York School Boards Association,

10 Julie Marlette, director of government

11 relations.

12 MS. MARLETTE: Good afternoon.

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Good afternoon.

14 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Good afternoon.

15 MS. MARLETTE: I'm joined here today

16 by my colleague Brian Fessler. On the off

17 chance that you might have any specific

18 questions about money, he would be the one I

19 would want to defer them to.

20 I want to start by thanking you so

21 much, both for having us here today but also

22 thank you for the commitment that both houses

23 have shown to serving public education in

24 recent years. The elimination of the GEA and

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1 the efforts to continue to try and push

2 additional resources to school districts,

3 even in really the worst of the fiscal

4 crisis, has not gone unnoticed or

5 unappreciated by my members.

6 Given that it's nearly 4 o'clock and

7 you've managed to refrain from asking us all

8 to limit to a few minutes, I'll save you the

9 effort and try to do so because I know you

10 have my written testimony in front of you,

11 and we're certainly happy to answer any

12 questions now or in the future. But I did

13 just want to take a few moments to touch on a

14 few of the top priorities for our association

15 and our members.

16 Like many of my colleagues, we

17 certainly come here both grateful for the

18 investments of the past, but we're

19 regrettably having to continue to ask for

20 more of an investment, specifically an

21 additional billion dollars in Foundation Aid

22 above and beyond what's been proposed by the

23 Executive. We would hope to see this

24 financial commitment go hand in hand with a

368

1 firm three-year commitment to fully phase in

2 the Foundation Aid formula, now that we've

3 moved past the economic problems in recent

4 years, and see that all districts get to the

5 point that they deserve and need to be funded

6 at.

7 One of the most troubling aspects

8 related to the proposal to repeal the

9 statutory Foundation Aid formula is not just

10 that it leaves so many questions about how

11 schools would be funded in the future, but

12 that it has the potential to effectively lock

13 in our most underfunded districts at that

14 present level of underfunding, perhaps in

15 perpetuity. These districts are those who

16 need the most assistance and who have been

17 allowed to stay as far behind as they have

18 for far too long, and we'd really want to see

19 them brought forward to the funding levels

20 they need.

21 In addition, we would hope to see a

22 more significant investment this year in the

23 paying down of our prior-year claims. Each

24 year we see a very small investment made,

369

1 about $18 million, to make good on these

2 approved expenses. And what we've learned in

3 looking at the growth of the list is that at

4 this point an expense incurred when a child

5 enters kindergarten this year likely will not

6 be paid off for the district until that child

7 has graduated high school. Again, this is

8 another pot of funding which is

9 disproportionately owed to our highest-needs

10 districts, and they would be incredibly

11 grateful for the paying down of that

12 $350 million obligation owed to them.

13 Beyond that, and slightly off-topic

14 from my written testimony, I would say I

15 found myself thinking increasingly, even

16 today when Chancellor FariÒa, you know, was

17 talking about the importance of social

18 studies education and how our government

19 works and the importance of checks and

20 balances -- and to that end, I hope that you

21 going forward knowing that you would have the

22 full support of our association in rejecting

23 any proposal that would eliminate the

24 Legislature as part of the decision-making

370

1 process for any necessary midyear budget

2 adjustments that are based on allocations

3 from the federal government.

4 We think that it's incredibly

5 important that all three parties continue to

6 come together and, in the unpalatable

7 situation that something would have to change

8 midyear, that that should be done with the

9 full participation of you and all of your

10 colleagues on behalf of your constituencies.

11 I'd like to also just reference

12 quickly our shared support with our

13 colleagues at NYSCOSS for embracing some

14 changes to the tax cap. Part of the reason

15 we feel so compelled to come and ask for such

16 a large number each year at the state level

17 is that we have a limited ability to generate

18 the funds needed at the local level.

19 And if we could make some comments and

20 suggestions based on the lessons we have

21 learned in recent years, eliminating negative

22 caps and in fact maybe just moving forward to

23 actualize the changes that the Legislature

24 and Governor already agreed to, specifically

371

1 around including PILOT properties in our tax

2 base and, equally importantly, allowing our

3 BOCES capital projects to be treated

4 equitably with the way we treat school

5 district capital projects.

6 There's a little cognitive dissonance

7 in the way we treat those programs, because

8 we are on the one hand increasingly looking

9 toward our BOCES to provide services that

10 districts may be unable to provide, but at

11 the same time are effectively limiting their

12 ability to grow without cutting other

13 programs at the district level.

14 I certainly have many more priorities,

15 but again, owing to the lateness of the hour,

16 I want to be respectful of your time, and

17 I'll end my comments there, unless you have

18 any questions.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

20 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

21 And thank you for traveling around the

22 state; it was good to see you the other day.

23 MS. MARLETTE: Nice to see you again,

24 Chairwoman. Thank you.

372

1 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Yes. Next, Michael

2 Borges, executive director, New York State

3 Association of School Business Officials.

4 MR. BORGES: Good afternoon. Thank

5 you for having me today.

6 With me is Deborah Cunningham, my

7 director of education and research, who's

8 here to help answer any complicated

9 questions.

10 Again, I want to echo my colleagues

11 from Superintendents and School Boards; we

12 want to express our gratitude for all the

13 support the Legislature has provided the

14 public schools over the last couple of

15 years -- the increases, the 6 percents, doing

16 away with the GEA last year. We really

17 appreciate all your efforts and your ongoing

18 efforts to help schools.

19 You have our testimony in front of

20 you, and I'll just give you some highlights

21 from that.

22 Obviously, we join with our colleagues

23 to urge you to reject changes to the

24 Foundation Aid formula phase-in. We believe

373

1 that's important to maintain that commitment

2 to provide equity, adequacy, and stability to

3 school aid.

4 We welcome the changes in calculating

5 poverty that were recommended by our own

6 Foundation Aid task force back in September,

7 including using more accurate census data to

8 calculate poverty, removing the cap on income

9 wealth, how that recognizes the depth of

10 poverty in communities, as well as

11 transitioning to direct certification data.

12 So we welcome those changes.

13 While recent graduation rates show

14 improvement, more needs to be done to address

15 the disparity between high- and low-need

16 districts. Our report that we released

17 yesterday that's included in our testimony

18 details some of the issues that are

19 afflicting some of our highest-needs school

20 districts. It shows graduation rates in

21 low-need districts were 30 percent higher

22 than high-need districts.

23 Looking at combined wealth ratio, the

24 achievement gap is even greater. School

374

1 districts in the lowest-wealth decile

2 graduated 70 percent of their students, while

3 those in the wealthiest graduated 94 percent.

4 On 8th-grade standardized tests, districts

5 with the least wealth only had 7 percent that

6 scored proficient or better in math, and

7 20 percent scored proficient or better in

8 English, while for students in the wealthiest

9 districts, 55 percent scored proficient or

10 better in math and 67 percent scored

11 proficient or better in English.

12 These dramatic achievement gaps are

13 closely linked to Foundation Aid due.

14 Low-need districts are owed $508, and

15 high-need urban/suburban are owned 3,109.

16 There is actually a chart attached to

17 our testimony which shows the disparity and

18 highlights the importance of phasing in the

19 Foundation Aid formula. On page 12 there's a

20 Foundation Aid due per pupil in 8th-grade

21 math proficiency, and that really

22 demonstrates really well those school

23 districts that are owed the most are doing

24 the worst in terms of proficiency, both in

375

1 math and in English.

2 And for the fourth year also, in terms

3 of the Foundation Aid amount, I think my

4 colleagues talked about the inadequacy of it.

5 Truly there's only $428 million in new

6 Foundation Aid, and of that, $150 million is

7 also set aside for Community Schools. We

8 believe that amount is definitely inadequate,

9 given the needs demonstrated in our report

10 and in the testimony of others.

11 Also, for the fourth year in a row,

12 the tax cap is below 2 percent. We believe

13 the cap should be made a straight 2 percent,

14 and at the very least the Legislature should

15 enact the changes that were made back in 2015

16 dealing with PILOT properties included in the

17 tax-base growth factor as well as providing

18 an exclusion to the tax cap for school

19 districts' share of the costs of BOCES

20 capital projects.

21 Mandate relief, the Governor has

22 included some mandate relief in the budget

23 for last three or four years. We believe

24 it's lacking and limited in scope. We have

376

1 many recommendations, as well as our

2 colleagues from other associations, about how

3 to make incremental mandate relief. Every

4 little bit helps, whether it's cost-sharing

5 for transportation costs, whether it's

6 removing the duplicate -- the needs for

7 fingerprinting of bus drivers. We also

8 recommend doing away with a lot of the

9 internal audit requirements that were imposed

10 on us.

11 So there's lots of different things

12 that the Legislature and state policymakers

13 can do to help school districts besides

14 increases in the Foundation Aid formula

15 that's mostly dealing with the tax cap and

16 mandate relief. We also support the

17 consolidation of the pre-K programs, and we

18 welcome the expansion of the grant program

19 for Farm-to-School programs, although it

20 falls short of our request to increase the

21 school reimbursement rate for school lunches

22 from 6 cents per meal to 25 cents, which

23 hasn't been changed in over 40 years.

24 So to end my testimony, I'd just like

377

1 to do a quote from my own op-ed piece in the

2 Times Union that was two weeks ago: "One

3 year can make an enormous difference in a

4 student's academic success. Every year that

5 goes by without fully funding Foundation Aid

6 is a lost year for tens of thousands of

7 students."

8 Thank you for your time. If you have

9 any questions, I'd be happy to answer.

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Questions?

11 Yes, Mr. Lopez.

12 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you,

13 Chairman.

14 Just quickly, I know your organization

15 had put out a report which called for changes

16 in Foundation Aid.

17 MR. BORGES: Right.

18 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: And I know you

19 made a positive reference to the changes that

20 the Governor made in his proposed budget.

21 When you talk about funding the

22 Foundation Aid more robustly, is that

23 including those changes, or are you using the

24 existing Foundation Aid?

378

1 MR. BORGES: It includes those

2 changes.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Okay. And I've

4 asked this of a couple of other folks -- my

5 region that I represent is largely rural,

6 it's northern Appalachia. By definition.

7 And as I look at the mantra of having all

8 students equally educated, in my view our

9 small rural districts fall behind with

10 Advanced Placement, lack of distance learning

11 facilities, you name it. High costs per

12 pupil, but very, very limited resources.

13 Is there more adjustment needed to

14 address -- I see your high need and low

15 wealth, but I have trouble equating the urban

16 and rural. The rural piece seems to be

17 understated, and I'm having trouble equating

18 what I know to be happening in rural America

19 with the need that you're describing. So my

20 question for you is, is there more tweaking

21 that needs to be done, particularly for high

22 need/low wealth and particularly rural

23 schools?

24 MR. BORGES: Yes. I mean, the changes

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1 that are being proposed by the Governor in

2 his Executive Budget are welcome changes in

3 terms of again, addressing poverty,

4 addressing -- using new census data. The

5 Governor's proposal, as well as our proposal

6 and many others, also maintaind

7 hold-harmless, which prevents rural school

8 districts from losing state aid if the

9 Foundation Aid formula was fully operational,

10 so to speak.

11 So can other things be done to help

12 particularly rural schools? Yes. That's in

13 terms of cost savings. In terms of allowing

14 school districts to share transportation,

15 doing away with some of the mandates.

16 There are other things that the

17 Legislature and state policymakers can do to,

18 in particular, help rural schools deal with

19 their costs. Because it's very difficult --

20 as you know, coming from a rural area, it's

21 hard to merge those school districts. You

22 just can't consolidate school districts that

23 cover hundreds of square miles.

24 So how can you provide a better

380

1 education, a more quality education to kids

2 in rural schools? I think Bob Lowry

3 mentioned regional high schools as one way of

4 doing it. Using the Internet more. There

5 are ways to bring AP classes, honors classes,

6 through regional high schools, through the

7 Internet, using technology -- there are ways

8 to get around the remoteness of rural schools

9 and the lack of resources.

10 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you.

11 The reason -- I did a quick analysis

12 of schools in my district, and we've had

13 per-pupil costs in the mid-to-high $30,000

14 range, which is staggering. But still, they

15 are not receiving the services they need.

16 And we haven't this economy of scale in the

17 rural areas. So those comments are very

18 welcome.

19 I was just wondering, too, if there

20 was anything from an aid category standpoint.

21 So the mandate relief, the allowing schools

22 to share more services. I think we can do

23 more with BOCES in statute. But is there

24 anything else from an aid category standpoint

381

1 that we should do?

2 MS. CUNNINGHAM: I think our biggest

3 concern is with Foundation Aid and having it

4 fully funded. Another way of saying this is

5 that a funding formula is like a garden, you

6 have to constantly tend it. Inequities crop

7 up, and you have to review that over time and

8 see the consequences of the funding formula.

9 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Pull a few weeds,

10 right.

11 MS. CUNNINGHAM: And our paper on the

12 resource and achievement gap points out an

13 opportunity gap in every region of the state,

14 including the rural areas, that needs to be

15 addressed. And right now the funding that is

16 not provided under the Foundation formula is

17 exactly where the problems are.

18 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: So rather than a

19 wholesale reduction of the Foundation Aid as

20 proposed by the Governor, you're suggesting

21 taking the changes that he's proposed and

22 funding it more robustly.

23 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes. Yes.

24 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you.

382

1 MS. CUNNINGHAM: The other important

2 point is that the full amount of

3 Foundation Aid is based on a cost study of

4 actual school districts and actual students,

5 so that's a research-based amount that we're

6 trying to get to. And so just to throw that

7 away and say, Well, we'll just kind of do a

8 little better each year, that's not going --

9 that's a partial solution to a big problem.

10 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: I understand.

11 MS. CUNNINGHAM: We need to have a

12 full solution.

13 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you so much.

14 Thank you, Chairman.

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

16 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Thank you.

17 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

18 New York State School Facilities

19 Association, Fred Koelbel, chair, legislative

20 committee.

21 MR. KOELBEL: I thank you all, and I

22 congratulate you on your stamina. I will be

23 brief. I'm sure you can all read, so you

24 have my testimony. Let me just hit a couple

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1 of highlights.

2 You know, one of the things I want to

3 just mention, school buildings today aren't

4 where children learn, they're actually part

5 of how children learn. And that's why what

6 we do is so important. You know, we're faced

7 with challenges in this era of TAP. We are

8 the stepchild, okay? I often speak of having

9 a school board member look at me at one

10 meeting and say, "Fred, money we give you for

11 the buildings is money we take away from

12 education." And I could think there could be

13 nothing farther from the truth. Healthy,

14 well-lit, well-maintained facilities are the

15 place where children learn. They're the

16 table that is set for children to learn at.

17 So a couple of items we'd like you to

18 consider. You know, it was really

19 heartening, and it's something I haven't

20 heard before, but to have the Commissioner of

21 Education highlight the School Facilities

22 Planning Department and their needs -- it's

23 something we've been talking about for

24 several years, and to have the commissioner

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1 speak about it was really heartening.

2 But, you know, she spoke about the

3 software that Facilities Planning uses to

4 track our projects, to approve our projects.

5 I'll just summarize it this way: It runs on

6 DOS, okay? Not Windows 7, DOS. It's

7 something that, you know, if that should go

8 down and not be repairable, we're in chaos.

9 Building aid. We continue to endorse

10 building aid. It's what keeps -- it's our

11 lifeline, in many cases, because getting

12 money within our budget for maintenance is

13 becoming tougher and tougher. Building aid

14 becomes the thing that lets us fix things

15 after they do down.

16 School safety funds. And this is an

17 important thing. We support the continuation

18 of the New York SAFE Act proposed in the

19 2017-'18 Executive Budget, but one of the

20 things we'd like to point out, you know,

21 we've all been able to do many very wonderful

22 things in New York State that BOCES schools

23 can't. And our BOCES schools, the population

24 in many of our BOCES programs are some of our

385

1 most vulnerable population. The BOCES

2 schools are not eligible for that New York

3 SAFE Act funding, and I think we can all work

4 together to figure out a way to get some of

5 that funding to them.

6 Maintenance funding. As I mentioned

7 in this era of the property tax cap, dollars

8 are becoming very dear for us. And we

9 support and are grateful to Senator Valesky

10 and Assemblymember Englebright for sponsoring

11 legislation to establish a minimum standard

12 for maintenance funding and allow school

13 districts to make these investments outside

14 the restrictions of the property tax cap.

15 You know, school facilities are many

16 communities' biggest investment and biggest

17 asset. We need to have the funds to maintain

18 them.

19 BOCES capital projects. I'm sure many

20 of you are familiar -- and we again thank

21 Assemblymember Galef and Senator Marcellino

22 for bringing this to the forefront. We

23 thought we had this licked. You know, like,

24 it hasn't come about. We need to figure out

386

1 a way to get BOCES capital expenditures

2 outside the cap. Because again, to get

3 component districts to vote for a capital

4 project that fits within the cap is not going

5 to happen in many areas.

6 And then the last would be -- second

7 to last -- an increase to $250,000 to the

8 threshold for capital projects. That would

9 be a capital project that if we fund it in

10 one year, we get our aid back the next year.

11 It's very helpful to many school districts.

12 Right now it's at $100,000. We were trying

13 the other day to figure out how long it's

14 been at $100,000. That's over 30 years, I

15 know that, because that was the oldest guy on

16 the call said, "Well, since I've gotten into

17 this, it's been at that."

18 But the other thing to realize is that

19 $100,000 after you take away the

20 architectural fees, the legal fees, the

21 borrowing -- the advertising fees, is more

22 like $75,000, $80,000 of actual project work.

23 There's not a lot you can get done for that

24 in this day and age.

387

1 And last but not least -- and it's

2 interesting, I've heard a number of groups

3 today speak about reserve funds. And we know

4 they've for many years been a nasty word,

5 reserves. But we've been for years now

6 endorsing -- and Assemblymember Cahill and

7 Senator Funke have been carrying this

8 legislation for us. It establishes an energy

9 reserve fund. And I think -- you know, right

10 now energy costs are relatively low. Two or

11 three years ago, they weren't. I think given

12 the climate we're in now, we're starting to

13 see natural gas start to creep back up. You

14 know, I'm from Long Island, I can tell you

15 about electric costs.

16 But what we're looking for is

17 something that allows us -- I and my

18 colleagues can tell our school boards how

19 much of the commodity we're going to use, we

20 just can't tell you what it's going to cost

21 from year to year. And in the era of the

22 cap, if we have something -- a disruption in

23 the Middle East, whatever -- that causes

24 energy to soar, I don't know where that money

388

1 is coming from. It's going to come from some

2 other program.

3 Having that reserve fund as the

4 circuit breaker for those problems would be

5 greatly appreciated.

6 And I thank you for your time, and I

7 congratulate you once again for doing this.

8 And if you have any questions, I'd happy to

9 answer them.

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

11 Shelley Mayer.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Thank you very

13 much.

14 I have a question for you. I don't

15 see in your testimony -- and I can understand

16 why not -- any sort of structural

17 recommendations to allowing districts to fund

18 to restore or rebuild old schools. And it's

19 a statewide problem.

20 And I wonder if your group has come up

21 with suggestions on how ultimately we are

22 going to be able to fund either the repair or

23 the rebuilding of over-100-year-old schools

24 like we have in my district.

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1 MR. KOELBEL: You know, one of the

2 things we've talked about is that the thing

3 we really need to address is maintenance.

4 Because these buildings get in the condition

5 they are because maintenance is neglected.

6 The last time I had a discussion with

7 SED, and this was a few years ago, because it

8 was a discussion with Chuck Szuberla, he

9 indicated to me the average building aid in

10 New York State is 72 percent.

11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Right.

12 MR. KOELBEL: Okay? So that means if

13 I put a roof on my building and I'm the

14 average school district, the state is going

15 to give me 72 cents on the dollar to pay for

16 that roof.

17 Now, if I send my men up there on a

18 regular basis and I maintain that roof and I

19 clear the drains and I patch the flashing, I

20 do everything I can, and I make that 15-year

21 roof last 20 years, all the expenditure for

22 that came from the budget, the local budget

23 within the cap. Or if I do nothing and I go

24 back in 10 years and put another new roof on,

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1 the state's going to give me 72 cents on the

2 dollar to put another roof on.

3 So there's this disincentive to do

4 good maintenance. There's this disincentive

5 to spend the local dollar out of the annual

6 budget to do these things.

7 So one of the things we've talked

8 about in the past, and still continue to talk

9 about, is incentivizing maintenance, saying,

10 Okay, here's the minimum level of maintenance

11 you need to spend to maintain your school.

12 Industry says that's 3 percent of the

13 replacement cost of the building. I don't

14 know that we can afford that as schools. But

15 whatever number we agree on, we say if you

16 spend that on the maintenance of your

17 building, we'll give you building aid on that

18 annually.

19 Now, that's the carrot. The stick

20 would be, however, if you didn't do that and

21 you come in to me in 10 years instead of 15

22 years for the new roof, I'm going to say,

23 Well, you only spent half of that, so I'm

24 going to give you half of the building aid

391

1 for the new roof.

2 Encourage people to maintain the

3 assets they have, you know, and it will work

4 out well -- it will work out much better, I

5 think.

6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Thank you.

7 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

8 MR. KOELBEL: Thank you.

9 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

10 much.

11 Dan White, district superintendent,

12 BOCES of New York State.

13 DISTRICT SUPT. WHITE: My thanks to

14 Chairpersons Farrell and Young, and

15 Chairperson Nolan for the opportunity to very

16 briefly give you a few remarks today. I know

17 it's been a long day.

18 I'm joined by my colleague Lynda

19 Quick, who's district superintendent at

20 Cattaraugus-Allegany BOCES and currently

21 chair of the New York State District

22 Superintendents.

23 A couple of things -- of items that

24 I'll notice. Career and Technical Education

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1 has been mentioned often today. BOCES serves

2 over 36,000 11th-and-12th-grade students on a

3 yearly basis in Career and Technical

4 Education programs. These students graduate

5 at a rate of 94 percent over four years.

6 It's a very important piece.

7 Chairperson Nolan, you brought up

8 adult education. We serve over 60,000 adult

9 learners on a yearly basis as well, and many

10 of you know we provide programming for some

11 of the neediest students in New York State

12 that can't be served in traditional

13 educational settings, as well as a number of

14 other things.

15 So to that end, I'd like to raise a

16 couple of salient points and then pause to

17 see if you have any questions for us, in

18 respect of time.

19 First of all, the BOCES capital issue

20 has been raised by a number of groups

21 previous to us. The fact of the matter is

22 BOCES capital debt is not considered like

23 school district debt that is outside of the

24 tax cap calculation. This is beginning to

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1 pose a number of concerns for us.

2 First and foremost, if we're to

3 upgrade facilities to meet industry needs for

4 Career and Technical Education, that requires

5 some facility investment. In addition, with

6 the special education services we provide,

7 there are a number of students on wait lists

8 around this state. To adequately provide

9 facilities for some of our highest-need

10 students is an imperative. The inability to

11 do this under the current tax cap structure

12 for BOCES capital is a significant barrier to

13 us fulfilling our mission.

14 Number two, and without rehashing

15 what's in our testimony, we do have a

16 specific recommendation for increasing the

17 financial support or aidability, if you will,

18 for Career and Technical Education. That's

19 been echoed by a number of groups, including

20 the State Education Department. So we would

21 propose that as well.

22 And I would add just in general

23 there's been discussion on Foundation Aid and

24 Foundation Aid formulas. We're in support of

394

1 the Regents recommendations as well as their

2 ask for additional support for ELL services

3 and Career and Technical Education.

4 So that's really ours in a nutshell.

5 I'm going to pause and see if any of you have

6 any questions.

7 (Pause.)

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

9 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you very

10 much. Thank you, Lynda.

11 DISTRICT SUPT. WHITE: Thank you.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: We do look

13 forward to following up on adult ed with you.

14 Thanks.

15 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: David Little,

16 executive director, Rural Schools Association

17 of New York State.

18 MR. LITTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

19 Thank you, members of the joint committee.

20 I want to thank you first of all for

21 your past support. You've been stalwart and

22 dedicated in your support of public

23 education.

24 I've spent my day much as you have; I

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1 listened to New York City talk about how

2 they're doing better and with additional

3 resources they would continue that progress.

4 We listened to the Big 5 say much the same

5 thing. We heard the suburbs talk about how

6 well they're doing, but they have additional

7 needs.

8 And I'm here to tell you that in the

9 rural schools, there is no looming crisis

10 either. And the reason that there's no

11 looming crisis is you're smack dab in the

12 middle of that crisis.

13 Rural schools have a completely

14 different look than the rest of your schools

15 right now. If you look at the population

16 loss in the state, it doesn't take a lot to

17 figure out that if the City is gaining

18 population, the upstate cities are gaining

19 population, the suburbs are gaining

20 population, and the state is losing 150,000

21 people each year for the last five years,

22 you've got a rural population loss -- maybe a

23 third of the students.

24 So we have this bizarre construct

396

1 where EXCEL aid gave us new facilities, it

2 gave us expanded facilities, and now we don't

3 have kids or the money to put teachers in

4 them. It's an odd dynamic. Because I think

5 if you look even at the last national

6 election, you can see that people in rural

7 areas are tired of being ignored. And those

8 rural individuals have seen job loss, they've

9 seen their kids have to leave their

10 communities in order to be employed.

11 And I can tell you -- the Cornell

12 Research half of our association has just

13 completed a study on teacher recruitment and

14 retention in New York State, and I can tell

15 you that Mr. Mulgrew has informed you that

16 within a couple of years you've got an issue

17 with New York City schools being able to

18 correctly get certifiable teachers for the

19 appropriate classes. I can tell you that

20 right now, you can't get them in rural areas.

21 They don't have them. Okay? What used to be

22 50 applications per position, they now go

23 left unfilled.

24 The things that we expect in our

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1 suburban schools as a matter of course, we

2 don't even begin to provide in our rural

3 areas. Advanced Placement courses -- and I'm

4 speaking generally; there are exceptions, of

5 course. But Advanced Placement courses,

6 Community Schools, After School Program,

7 preschool, transportation for things back and

8 forth -- they don't exist there.

9 And I'll give you the example of my

10 own son, who wanted to go to Ithaca College

11 for a photography degree and was told,

12 "Danny, you're okay, but your school's not.

13 You don't have the coursework to be able to

14 put the information we're going to give you

15 into context, and as a result you won't be

16 able to compete with your peers in this

17 program." And so he went to RIT, and RIT

18 kicked his tail for four years. It took him

19 every bit of every bit of time, with no

20 extracurricular activities, in order to

21 complete that program, because Ithaca College

22 was right. And it's directly the result of

23 our approach to rural areas.

24 In the 1970s, the upstate rural

398

1 economy was strong enough to be able to bail

2 out New York City. Now the exact opposite is

3 happening. I talked about the population

4 loss. I can also tell you that in the 1970s

5 New York State had 17 million acres in

6 agricultural production, and now it has 7.

7 We don't have the ability to generate the

8 jobs. And we have a state jobs program for

9 our rural areas that apparently is simply to

10 build casinos.

11 We've starved our rural schools. And

12 by starving our rural schools, we aren't

13 providing those children the opportunity to

14 generate the revenue, and thus for New York

15 State to have anything but a second-rate

16 future.

17 I've laid out in the testimony that's

18 been printed there for you the things within

19 the Governor's Executive Budget proposal that

20 will help, those things that will hurt, and

21 the things that we need. I won't reiterate

22 those things specifically, because they're

23 right there in front of you and I'm always

24 available to be able to go over any of those

399

1 things with you.

2 But I will tell you that over the past

3 few years, as we've focused on the last

4 efforts of trying to restore the GEA, those

5 last efforts largely benefited those

6 districts that needed it the least. When the

7 Governor first took the GEA, it was like

8 John Dillinger with banks -- we'll take it

9 from who gets Foundation Aid. And our rural

10 schools are the ones that get the

11 Foundation Aid.

12 I disagree with my colleagues slightly

13 about the tax cap. And I'm all for

14 particularly making the changes to the tax

15 cap that you all offered last year and the

16 Division of the Budget has seen fit to

17 ignore -- changing BOCES capital projects and

18 pilot programs to adjust for the cap.

19 But I will tell you this. Rural

20 schools don't have anything to tax. So the

21 rate of the tax cap is not a legitimate

22 approach to how we're going to fix our rural

23 schools. So if we have a 1.5 percent tax cap

24 or we have a complete freeze on local taxes,

400

1 if you're only raising $30,000 under the tax

2 cap to begin with, it doesn't make one bit of

3 difference.

4 We need a legitimate and sustainable

5 means of trying to fund public education in

6 this state if we're going to move forward.

7 And I wish Senator Marcellino were here,

8 because he asked everybody else -- you know,

9 he talked about everybody being able to stay

10 in their homes and not be able to be taxed,

11 and I couldn't agree more. Local taxes are

12 not the way to do this. And we spend an

13 extraordinary amount of money on public

14 education already -- more than a quarter of

15 the countries on the planet make as a gross

16 domestic product. More than 10 percent of

17 all the money in the United States of America

18 spent on public education is already spent in

19 New York State. Our issue is not how much we

20 spend, it's how we distribute it.

21 And the way we distribute it is

22 criminal. It needs to be fixed, it needs to

23 be sustained. And we need to have, as my

24 colleagues have mentioned, we need to have

401

1 the mandate relief that was promised when we

2 instituted the tax cap. But more importantly

3 than simple mandate relief is allowing the

4 kind of things that have made sense in other

5 places for a generation.

6 Regional high school. I went to a

7 regional high school in the early 1970s in

8 Connecticut, and another one in Illinois.

9 This is not a new concept. It allows

10 communities to keep their identity, and it

11 allows their children to get a proper

12 education that's not being provided now, and

13 which merger and consolidation don't come

14 close to being able to provide.

15 And I'm not worried, as some of the

16 folks in the union sector of our profession

17 are, that the regional high schools or magnet

18 schools or mergers and consolidation would

19 result in fewer jobs. I don't want one

20 teacher to lose their job over this, because

21 we are so dramatically constricted in the

22 kind of curriculum that we can provide in

23 rural schools that we simply need all of

24 those people to be able to broaden the things

402

1 that we teach to be able to provide our kids

2 an adequate education to be competitive

3 either in college or in their career.

4 Rural America, they say, feeds, fuels

5 and fights for this country. That's where

6 you get the people who fight for the country,

7 the fuel that fuels us, and the products and

8 produce that feeds us. And yet we've chosen

9 to ignore them. We've chosen to ignore them

10 for nearly a generation now. And we do it at

11 our peril, both politically and economically.

12 So I'll leave you with what I hope is

13 a concise statement about what's needed and

14 what's harmful within the Governor's budget,

15 and leave it to you to do the things that

16 you've done for us in the past, and hope that

17 we can change course in a direction that's

18 workable for you, knowing that you have to

19 buy everything back that he puts in there. I

20 know how difficult that is, but I also know

21 how vital it is.

22 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

23 much.

24 Questions? Thank you.

403

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Yes. David, good

2 to see you. And I want to sincerely thank

3 you and Bob Lowry and several of the speakers

4 today, because you've brought up regional

5 schools. And as you know, they would be a

6 tremendous opportunity for rural students who

7 cannot -- who are in schools that cannot

8 provide all of the classwork that they need

9 in order to have a high-quality education.

10 I agree with you that we would not

11 lose jobs if we had regional schools. In

12 fact, I believe we would save jobs if we had

13 regional schools. So I'm hopeful that the

14 Assembly will pass the legislation that we

15 have passed several times in the State

16 Senate, because it certainly would help our

17 rural children all over the state.

18 So I want to thank you for your

19 advocacy on a lot of issues, and all the

20 speakers who have brought those very

21 important things forward today. So thank

22 you.

23 MR. LITTLE: Thank you, Senator.

24 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Mr. Lopez.

404

1 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: Yes, thank you,

2 Chairman.

3 And David, just so you know, I'm

4 channeling Charlie Cook, if that means

5 anything to you. So I worked for Charlie for

6 15 years with his Rural Resources Commission.

7 I know Senator Young has helped take on that

8 mantle in many ways.

9 So I'm very keenly interested in your

10 comments on the rural, and we're going to

11 look at this very closely and just, myself

12 and my colleagues working with the chairwoman

13 here, have some frank conversation, because

14 my premise is inner city and rural are mirror

15 images of each other. The percentages are

16 the same -- lack of educational attainment,

17 percentage of children in poverty -- just the

18 numbers are different. And we're hidden with

19 trees and pastoral fields and mountains, but

20 we're there.

21 MR. LITTLE: The more you study the

22 difference between our urban needs and our

23 rural needs, the more you find out that

24 they're virtually identical. They have them

405

1 for different reasons, but they have the

2 exact same problems.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN LOPEZ: I'm reflecting on

4 Paul Ebert's socioeconomic studies that were

5 done back in the '80s that showed the

6 percentages to be mirror images. So I think

7 those numbers still hold. And again, we'd

8 like to explore -- and maybe if you have more

9 suggestions, we can carry them back to our

10 colleagues here. So thank you.

11 MR. LITTLE: Thank you.

12 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

13 much --

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Just one second, I'm

15 sorry.

16 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Oh, I'm sorry.

17 Senator.

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Hi. I come from

19 Manhattan island, so about as far as you can

20 imagine in comparison to rural New York. But

21 I want to comment that, one, your testimony

22 and your report is amazingly excellent.

23 Two, I think you're absolutely right,

24 some of the problems you're seeing for the

406

1 smallest school districts in the state are

2 exactly parallel to what big cities are

3 seeing. You're highlighting --

4 MR. LITTLE: And some of the solutions

5 are the same.

6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Exactly.

7 MR. LITTLE: The Community Schools,

8 the whole community approach, the

9 after-school programming, transportation to

10 get kids to things, trying to deal with their

11 medical issues in a way that doesn't take

12 them out of class the entire day -- all of

13 those things are identical.

14 SENATOR KRUEGER: And it ties in so

15 perfectly to your statement about we have the

16 buildings but we don't actually have the

17 people in them to do the things the children

18 need. And I agree completely that the

19 Community School model for rural areas has

20 the potential to have a huge win, I think on

21 your entire municipal budgets, when you can

22 bring everything into one location and

23 provide the services and ensure that people

24 are getting the things they need.

407

1 I did have a question in addition to

2 appreciating your testimony. What are other

3 states with big rural areas doing better than

4 we are for their schools? Have you looked

5 into additional recommendations we really

6 ought to be following?

7 MR. LITTLE: Yeah, the other states

8 start off with a more equitable funding

9 model. That's really where they have an

10 advantage over us. In virtually every other

11 state, the state provides for two-thirds of

12 the funding for public education and they

13 leave the final third, usually for extras, to

14 the local community. They provide the

15 state's minimum requirements at the least,

16 and then they leave the extras to the local

17 community.

18 We do exactly the opposite here. We

19 expect locals to pay for about two-thirds the

20 cost of public education, and that means that

21 for many communities that don't have the

22 resources to provide sometimes even the state

23 minimum requirements, you start from a

24 deficit in all of those things. So that's

408

1 really the most profound thing that happens

2 in other states.

3 Other states have other models. I

4 don't know that people are doing things that

5 are any more innovative, except that they've

6 progressed along a different line. I

7 mentioned how long other states have had

8 regional high schools. And it's a solution

9 to an issue that -- the Governor keeps

10 calling for mergers and consolidations, and

11 in fact I can tell you that this has been

12 interesting for me, as we've partnered with

13 Cornell Research, to find out there is no

14 place on the planet that shares services,

15 municipal and school services, more than

16 upstate New York does. And so we're leading.

17 You know, we're leading everybody else by

18 example, and yet our circumstances are so

19 severe, because of the way that we fund

20 public education in our state, that we're not

21 able to overcome it through efficiency alone.

22 And so there are other states that

23 have long ago said we're going to educate

24 kids up until the eighth grade in our little

409

1 community schools, and we're going to keep

2 our identity and we're going to even have the

3 economic support that schools provide as

4 sometimes the largest employer in small

5 communities. But by the time they get to

6 high school, there's a real need to have a

7 broad enough curriculum to let these kids do

8 what they were meant to do. And if we keep

9 them in those little schools all the way

10 through -- we know it's a tradeoff, but if we

11 keep them in those little rural schools, we

12 know that they're not going to be able to

13 reach their potential.

14 And so what happens is to get the kind

15 of jobs that they're able to keep, once they

16 get out of high school, they leave. Every

17 state has their kids leave, but they come

18 home someday. Our kids can't come home.

19 We've set up a construct, in our rural areas

20 in particular, where our kids can't come

21 home. And that has profound social

22 consequences as well as economic consequences

23 for rural areas being able to support the

24 economy of the state and allow us to regain

410

1 our preeminent position.

2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you very much

3 for your work.

4 MR. LITTLE: Sure.

5 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

6 James D. Cultrara, director of

7 education, New York Catholic Conference.

8 MR. CULTRARA: Honorable chairpersons,

9 honorable members, thank you for your time.

10 I apologize on behalf of Bishop

11 Scharfenberger, who could not be here much

12 beyond his anticipated testimony time. But

13 you have his testimony for the record. I'm

14 going to dispense with reading it and focus

15 on four points.

16 And I'm going to lead off with

17 thanking Assemblyman Lopez for channeling

18 Senator Charlie Cook. As an employee of

19 Charlie Cook, a former employee, I want to

20 point out how much I think you would

21 recognize how much concern he had for

22 families. And I want to talk about the

23 families that we serve and that we could

24 serve and who want to be served by our

411

1 schools.

2 And we are facing a continuing tuition

3 crisis that morphs the tuition crisis that

4 the Governor is focusing on in higher

5 education. And so many members are

6 rightfully looking at providing increased

7 tuition assistance at higher education, when

8 there exists no similar program at elementary

9 and secondary schools. So you have families,

10 whether or not they are immigrants from the

11 80 countries that we serve in our schools,

12 low-income families, middle-income families,

13 or even higher-income families -- families

14 want options for their children. That's why

15 immigrants come to this country. And they

16 are being denied those options simply because

17 of an inability to afford those options.

18 Your counterparts in 26 other states

19 and the District of Columbia have seen fit to

20 enact a variety of mechanisms to assist

21 tuition-paying families at the elementary and

22 secondary school level. And despite what we

23 hear from the opposition, from those invested

24 only in public schools, that it will destroy

412

1 public schools, if you look at the public

2 education system in those 26 other states,

3 spending has grown and enrollment has not

4 dropped in those other states.

5 I think if Bishop Scharfenberger were

6 here, he would ask you to examine some of the

7 recent articles and reports from the Board of

8 Regents and news articles about graduation

9 rates in public schools and how graduation

10 rates are on the rise. Right?

11 However, if you disaggregate that data

12 and look at graduation rates compared to

13 children of color in public school versus

14 children of color who have been given access

15 to our schools through a scholarship, you'll

16 see that the families of children of color

17 have graduation rates above 95 percent in the

18 Catholic schools, the historically black

19 independent schools, the Lutheran schools of

20 this state.

21 And if you were to examine that, you

22 should ask yourself: Why aren't we giving

23 those families the same options that they

24 have in 26 other states?

413

1 The Education Affordability Act,

2 sponsored by Assemblyman Mike Cusick and

3 Senator Marty Golden, needs to be enacted.

4 If you're going to enact a program of tuition

5 assistance at the higher education level,

6 don't do it without helping those families

7 that are burdened with tuition at the

8 elementary and secondary school level.

9 Secondly, I want to talk about the

10 Smart Schools Bond Act, which as you know was

11 enacted in 2014 and is just beginning to be

12 implemented. There are three rounds of

13 grants that have been approved, and

14 unfortunately the implementation of that

15 program has resulted in religious and

16 independent schools being denied their

17 equitable share, that to which they have been

18 entitled, we believe, under the statute. And

19 in many cases, there are school districts

20 that are spending money on classroom

21 technology but only for connectivity, which

22 benefits only the public schools. And

23 because of how it's being implemented, the

24 religious and independent school students are

414

1 receiving no benefit.

2 The Governor has provided $25 million

3 in his Executive Budget to begin to address

4 these inequities. That is far below what we

5 believe is necessary. It can also be fixed

6 within the existing $2 billion bond issue.

7 We will be submitting language to do both,

8 rectify the inequities for existing, already

9 approved grants as well as those grants that

10 have yet to be approved.

11 The second-from-last item is mandated

12 services and cap reimbursement. We are

13 grateful for the $250 million that has been

14 finally disbursed to our schools over the

15 last two years to try to resolve the prior

16 year obligations to our schools, but there

17 are more than 100 schools that have not

18 received their reimbursement. Those are

19 schools that did not have the vendor IDs

20 through which they can get paid.

21 So there's more than 100 schools that

22 are still owed, and $250 million is

23 exhausted. So we will be asking for access

24 to the appropriation that's already there for

415

1 $60 million for supplemental cap to be used

2 to satisfy those prior year obligations to

3 those schools that did not have vendor IDs.

4 Further, the Education Department in

5 this program is arbitrarily reducing

6 reimbursement to schools by moving away from

7 a long-established standard of reimbursing

8 schools on the basis of instructional time.

9 And by moving away from that standard, our

10 schools are receiving less reimbursement.

11 The irony there is, as teachers and

12 principals put in more work, the more time

13 that's recorded, the less the reimbursement

14 to the school. Which is not, we think, what

15 was the intent of lawmakers in establishing

16 that program.

17 And the last item is the State Office

18 of Religious and Independent Schools. As you

19 know, we've been fighting to have the

20 department restore that office. You, for

21 which we are grateful, provided $2 million in

22 funds to support that office and initiatives

23 for schools through that office. The

24 Governor reappropriates the $2 million but

416

1 advances only $800,000 for the next fiscal

2 year going forward.

3 That office is crucial to helping the

4 department overcome the tremendous backlog in

5 work, including disbursing funds that have

6 already been appropriated many years ago that

7 are still sitting there at the Education

8 Department waiting to get out the door.

9 Hiring staff is absolutely critical to

10 getting those dollars out to our schools to

11 serve teachers and students, and we urge you

12 to restore the full appropriation to

13 $2 million.

14 Thank you very much.

15 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

16 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

17 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Questions?

18 Shelley Mayer.

19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Jim, thank you.

20 On this issue of the Smart Schools

21 Bond Act, is it your testimony that SED is

22 interpreting the statute to deny applications

23 by religious schools?

24 MR. CULTRARA: The Smart Schools

417

1 Review Board consists of the State Education

2 Department, the Governor's office, and the

3 State University of New York.

4 The State Education Department has

5 been the principal entity behind the

6 regulations as well as the guidance in

7 guiding school districts on how to determine

8 the nonpublic school share.

9 We believe that it's clear in the

10 statute that any expenditure for classroom

11 technology needs to be shared with the

12 nonpublic schools on an equitable basis. We

13 understand that school districts can spend

14 money on high-tech security as well as

15 building needs, to which we do not have

16 access, but any expenditure on classroom

17 technology needs to be shared on an equitable

18 basis.

19 The State Education Department, and

20 technically the review board, has divided

21 classroom technology into two pots --

22 connectivity, which is wiring, and loanable

23 devices, resulting in the determination that

24 the calculation of the nonpublic school share

418

1 is only what is spent on loanable devices

2 divided by enrollment. Right?

3 So you have school districts spending

4 money in many cases on only connectivity, and

5 we believe lawmakers did not intend school

6 districts to spend money on classroom

7 technology without sharing it with the

8 nonpublic schools.

9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: I understand.

10 MR. CULTRARA: So we have families

11 that parents who voted for that, expecting

12 their students and their schools to get

13 equitable access -- and that's being denied.

14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MAYER: Okay. Thank you

15 for the clarification.

16 Thank you.

17 MR. CULTRARA: Thank you very much.

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: I have a question.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Senator?

20 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm sorry, Jim. One

21 question, or maybe two.

22 So you give some testimony about how

23 many schools have closed in the last six

24 years, in the last 20 years.

419

1 MR. CULTRARA: Right.

2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Do you know how many

3 children are going to Catholic schools in the

4 State of New York now, compared to 10 years

5 ago?

6 MR. CULTRARA: Approximately 200,000

7 now, compared to 325,000, roughly, 21 years

8 ago.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: And even though it's

10 not fair for you as a question, but I'll try

11 it anyway, do you know in total how many

12 children go to the parochial and independent

13 schools, 10 years ago versus today? I'm

14 wondering whether they shifted to other

15 schools or they shifted back into the public

16 schools.

17 MR. CULTRARA: As of last year, there

18 are just over 411,000 students in all

19 independent and religious schools, and about

20 20 years ago there was about 485,000. So

21 there has been growth among the Jewish

22 schools, some Christian schools, the Islamic

23 schools, and losses in primarily Catholic

24 schools but also Lutheran schools,

420

1 historically black independent schools, some

2 Christian schools.

3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Got it. And when

4 you were talking about the formula not

5 reflecting the number of days as opposed to

6 the number of instructional hours, you sort

7 of lost me there. So can you explain that?

8 MR. CULTRARA: Mandated services, when

9 it was established in 1974, was very rigorous

10 and was looking at and requiring schools to

11 maintain records on actual expenditures --

12 what a school paid for for this graphing

13 calculator, what the teacher's salary was in

14 this school versus another teacher in the

15 same school. And trying to be so exacting in

16 ensuring that schools were not reimbursed

17 more than that to which they're entitled, it

18 created an enormous burden on both the

19 schools and the State Education Department in

20 implementing it.

21 Then in the early eighties, they

22 developed a series of parameters saying let's

23 come up with some actual averages for which

24 we can reimburse schools to simplify without

421

1 overreimbursing our schools. So I'll give

2 you a simple example. All schools that

3 administer the science exams that require

4 science kits get reimbursed for an average

5 cost of that science kit, an average cost of

6 a graphing calculator. Even though it might

7 cost one school more, another school less,

8 the state has determined those averages.

9 Among those averages was a

10 determination of the amount of time teachers

11 were spending not only on the task at hand,

12 for which they're getting reimbursed, but how

13 do you determine their average hourly rate?

14 Private school calendars and schedules are

15 all over the place.

16 And so the State Education Department

17 said -- and this goes back 30 years -- let's

18 base the school day and the school year on

19 what the state requires for instruction. And

20 that's five and five and a half hours -- five

21 hours for elementary schools, five and a half

22 for high schools -- and the average school

23 year, which ranges from 177-180 days.

24 Because that's the basis for public school

422

1 aid. And it was public school aid, the

2 equitable reimbursement based on public

3 school aid, for which the U.S. Supreme Court

4 upheld this program.

5 The State Education Department and the

6 Comptroller's office, to some degree, in

7 their most recent audit about 10 years ago,

8 started to go back and say, We need to be

9 more exacting, we need to dig deeper into

10 these expenses. So they're reverting back to

11 what was back in 1974. So in effect, in

12 doing that, they are reducing -- because

13 they're expanding our school day and school

14 hours, they're reducing the numerator and

15 therefore the reimbursement is less.

16 So ironically, as public school aid

17 increases for the same amount of time, as you

18 require our schools to report a greater

19 amount of time, we actually get less

20 reimbursement.

21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you for the

22 explanation. I feel better about not

23 understanding it in writing.

24 (Laughter.)

423

1 SENATOR KRUEGER: So thank you.

2 MR. CULTRARA: You're welcome.

3 Thank you all.

4 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

5 much.

6 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

7 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Jake Adler,

8 director, government affairs, Orthodox Union.

9 MR. ADLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

10 Chair Young, Chair Nolan, members, I

11 appreciate your time.

12 I submitted my written testimony, so I

13 don't want to read it word for word. I just

14 wanted to highlight a few key points of what

15 I'm asking for this year.

16 There are 412,000 nonpublic school

17 students -- Jim says a little bit over 411,

18 so I'll go with Jim's number. Of those,

19 150,000 are Jewish; about 200 or so, I

20 believe are Catholic, as per Jim. It's

21 13 percent of the K-12 population in this

22 state.

23 My focus this year, and I think a

24 focus going forward for the state, is what

424

1 can we do to make sure that all of our

2 students, be they in public school or be they

3 in nonpublic school, succeed and have the

4 skills they need to enter the job market.

5 That's what I'm asking you to take a look at

6 this budget cycle.

7 One of the things that we focused on

8 this year is STEM education. I think that a

9 proper STEM education for all students is

10 essential, be they in rural counties, be they

11 in urban centers, be they in public schools

12 or private schools. I think that's a central

13 focus that we need to have in order to

14 compete in the new economy.

15 Just one thing I wanted to point out

16 about the nonpublic schools overall: There

17 are $11.4 billion annually contributed to

18 New York State because of the roughly 1900

19 hundred nonpublic schools. There's no

20 question that the nonpublic schools remain an

21 integral part of the overall state

22 educational infrastructure. I think my main

23 point, if I can make one today, is that to

24 leave out 13 percent of the K-12 population

425

1 from these important skills would be bad

2 public policy long-term for the state.

3 That's the short and sweet version.

4 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Any comments?

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. Thank

6 you for being here, Director Adler.

7 I just had a quick question. Do your

8 schools currently provide STEM programs?

9 MR. ADLER: You know, I think there's

10 a large mix across the board of nonpublic

11 schools. Some nonpublic schools have very

12 good STEM education programs, some have

13 rather weak STEM education programs.

14 And I think, across the board, what

15 the main issue is is that there is a

16 fundamental problem retaining and keeping

17 these teachers as public school wages go up.

18 If I'm a teacher and I'm a STEM-certified

19 teacher, I want to be in a public school

20 where I'm going to be getting a full

21 allotment of NYSUT benefits or UFT benefits

22 in that full package.

23 So there's definitely a vacuum taking

24 talent out of those schools.

426

1 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Right. And so what

2 percentage of your students are benefiting

3 from scholarships? Because you provide

4 scholarships, right?

5 MR. ADLER: You know, it's hard to get

6 an overall number, because a lot of people

7 don't want to talk about it. But I know that

8 I was at a school on the Upper East Side two

9 or three weeks ago, and 40 percent of their

10 students are on scholarship. And that's

11 considered one of the more affluent schools.

12 So it's interesting to see even in

13 what are considered the vanguard schools,

14 there is still a substantial population that

15 are actually receiving some financial

16 assistance.

17 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: I agree with you

18 that every student deserves to get the

19 benefit of a STEM education. So thank you so

20 much.

21 SENATOR KRUEGER: I have a question.

22 MR. ADLER: Senator.

23 SENATOR KRUEGER: I think I know that

24 school in my district. And it's not unlike

427

1 the private colleges where, because of the

2 structure of the finances of how they

3 calculate up to $30,000 a year annual

4 tuition, many students are in fact eligible

5 for some percentage of scholarship.

6 MR. ADLER: Right.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I don't disagree.

8 But it's perhaps a little bit different than

9 Cathy understood her question to be.

10 The Catholic Conference people talked

11 about the academic success of the graduates

12 of their schools, and in fact I know that

13 that's statistically true. How many of the

14 students from the Orthodox school system end

15 up going on to college?

16 MR. ADLER: I'm sorry, can you repeat

17 that? I didn't hear --

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: What percentage of

19 your graduates go to college?

20 MR. ADLER: I don't have the

21 percentage on the top of my head. I can get

22 that to you. I think there's obviously going

23 to be a difference between which segment of

24 the population you're looking at.

428

1 I think in some of the schools in your

2 neighborhood, they're to be significantly

3 higher than some of the other neighborhoods.

4 I don't want to single any one neighborhood

5 out.

6 Overall, I think the most important

7 thing here is to give the opportunity to all

8 the schools, as many schools as possible, to

9 raise that skill level up and that training

10 level up for all those kids. And I think

11 even the schools that traditionally have

12 lower or smaller programs, if you provide

13 this sort of opportunity, they will start

14 implementing it more.

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: I don't necessarily

16 disagree, but I would love to see some data

17 perhaps broken down by gender or the schools

18 to show me --

19 MR. ADLER: I'd be happy to get that

20 for you.

21 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- because I have a

22 great concern that, at least in the City of

23 New York, too many of these schools that you

24 represent are not actually providing the

429

1 kinds of education that their children need

2 to compete in our economy when they finish.

3 MR. ADLER: I just want to say I agree

4 that every school should be providing a very

5 high quality education, especially in the

6 core subjects. And I'm looking forward to

7 work with you and everyone up here to

8 implement that.

9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

10 MR. ADLER: Thank you, Senator.

11 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you.

12 MR. ADLER: Thank you.

13 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

14 Steve Sanders, executive director,

15 Agencies for Children's Therapy Services,

16 ACTS.

17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: We're so happy

18 to see you here. And I just want to -- to

19 some of the people who testified just prior,

20 you know, we always want to ask questions,

21 but I've been trying to let others and let

22 the hearing go on. So I don't want Jim

23 Cultrara and the other gentleman to think we

24 don't care. We're just trying to get the

430

1 hearing moving, and you're always available

2 to us for questions when we reach out for

3 you. And some of the others, David Little

4 and some of the others. I just think it's

5 good to keep moving.

6 But I also just want to say how glad I

7 am to see Steve Sanders here today. Thank

8 you so much for coming.

9 MR. SANDERS: Well, thank you very

10 much, Chairwoman, and Chairman Farrell,

11 Chairwoman Young, friends, former colleagues.

12 Just as a very brief aside, I want to

13 thank Assemblyman Lopez for invoking the name

14 of Charlie Cook, especially at an Education

15 Committee budget hearing. His name isn't

16 used often enough, and his example as a

17 public servant for so many years in this

18 body, I think perhaps has been

19 underappreciated. He was one of a kind, and

20 I was privileged to work with him for a

21 number of years on education issues.

22 As Chairman Farrell said, my name is

23 Steve Sanders, I'm the director of Agencies

24 for Children's Therapy Services. This is a

431

1 statewide association of agencies that

2 provide Early Intervention and preschool

3 special education around the state.

4 I'm not following to read my brief

5 statement. I just want to make a couple of

6 very quick observations and one

7 recommendation.

8 My first observation is that big

9 issues don't fall through the cracks. They

10 don't always get resolved, they don't always

11 get addressed, but they don't fall through

12 cracks. They are taken note of.

13 Small but important issues, however,

14 in thousands of pages of budget language can

15 get lost in the shuffle. And I'm here to

16 talk about one of those small but important

17 issues. And you'll be happy to know I am not

18 here to ask for any money, and I'm certainly

19 not going to try to take up much of your time

20 either. But I do want to bring your

21 attention to one issue in the budget, which

22 as I say could be easily overlooked, and it

23 deals with a program called Preschool

24 Integrated Special Class Programs.

432

1 So what is that? This is a program

2 that blends children with special education

3 IEPs -- these are kids who have special needs

4 in the pre-K setting -- with other kids who

5 don't have IEPs. So it is a merging of

6 youngsters with learning disabilities or

7 challenges with youngsters who don't have any

8 identifiable problems.

9 And it's a great thing to have kids of

10 that age interacting together. It's really

11 terrific for the socialization of both of

12 them. So what's the issue? It's a very

13 simple issue. The Governor wants to

14 authorize the State Education Department to

15 come up with a new funding methodology, a new

16 rate and a new rate methodology. And that's

17 okay. That's fine. That's fair. From time

18 to time, we have to look at our funding

19 sources and our funding mechanisms and rework

20 them, and that's okay.

21 What I would ask of this joint

22 committee is for you to do the same thing

23 that you did a few years ago when the State

24 Education Department was authorized also by

433

1 the Governor, approved by the Legislature, to

2 revamp the SEIT. That's Special Education

3 Itinerant Teaching program. This is the

4 program where the teachers come to the home

5 and actually provide instruction in the home.

6 And at that time, that rate and that

7 methodology was ordered to be revamped. And

8 what the Legislature did -- very wisely and

9 very effectively, I would add -- is to insert

10 a little bit of language to say that before

11 the State Education Department came up with

12 this new methodology and this new rate, that

13 they consult in some manner the stakeholders.

14 And that's very important, because as smart

15 as the folks at SED are, as brilliant as this

16 new commissioner is -- and I listened to her

17 for all three and a half hours this morning,

18 I think she's excellent -- very often

19 providers of agencies, the ones who are on

20 the front lines providing the services, know

21 something about how those rates and how that

22 methodology ought to evolve and develop.

23 So when this happened for the SEIT

24 program a couple of years ago, it resulted in

434

1 a very good product, a fair -- I didn't agree

2 with every change, but it was a fair and

3 effective new methodology and new rate. And

4 I would ask you to do the same thing with the

5 Preschool Integrated Special Class Programs.

6 I assure you that through this

7 collaboration between SED and providers, it

8 can only benefit SED and the providers in

9 creating a product that takes into

10 consideration all the exigencies that neither

11 side may have an understanding of in its

12 totality, but when they collaborate, the

13 product is ultimately a very good one.

14 And that is it. That is my testimony.

15 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. It's

16 always great to see you again --

17 MR. SANDERS: So is my pleasure.

18 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: -- and as always,

19 very articulate.

20 MR. SANDERS: Good luck with the rest

21 of this day, and the next two months. Thank

22 you very much.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

24 much.

435

1 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: Thank you, Steve.

2 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Michael Martucci,

3 New York School Bus Contractors Association,

4 and Jimmy Hedge, vice president, ATU Local

5 1181, New York School Bus Contractors

6 Association.

7 MR. CORDIELLO: Good afternoon.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Good afternoon.

9 MR. CORDIELLO: Actually, I'm Michael

10 Cordiello, president of ATU Local 1181, and I

11 will try to -- I'm not going to read my

12 entire statement. I've highlighted it, and

13 try and get through this quickly.

14 I'm president of Local 1181,

15 Amalgamated Transit union, and vice president

16 of New York State AFL-CIO. I am joined with

17 Jimmy Hedge, recording secretary and

18 political director of Local 1181 of the

19 Amalgamated Transit Union, and vice chair of

20 the ATU-NY State Legislative Conference

21 Board.

22 Local 1181 represents some 12,000

23 school bus drivers, matrons, and mechanics

24 who every day provide safe, efficient

436

1 transportation to about 160,000 New York City

2 schoolchildren.

3 I am here today for two reasons.

4 First, I want to thank both the Assembly and

5 the Senate for your support of our industry

6 and for passing legislation sponsored by

7 Assemblyman Daniel O'Donnell and Senator

8 Marty Golden that would achieve stability in

9 the school bus transportation industry,

10 ensure the safe and reliable transportation

11 for millions of schoolchildren, and provide a

12 living wage and decent benefits for

13 hardworking, skilled and experienced workers.

14 This legislation was sent to the

15 Governor for his review at the end of

16 November. After his review, the Governor

17 vetoed this legislation primarily, he said,

18 because it needed to be included in the

19 budget process.

20 This leads me to the second reason for

21 being here today, to ask both houses to

22 include this school bus industry proposal in

23 their one-house budgets. I have included a

24 copy of the bill draft with my testimony as

437

1 Attachment 1. I believe that this draft will

2 give us a path forward to finally stabilize

3 this industry, provide decent wages and

4 benefits to the workforce and, of course,

5 provide safe and reliable transportation to

6 New York City schoolchildren.

7 I am happy to go into any history or

8 background you would like, but given that the

9 hour is late and time is short, I will refer

10 you to my written testimony for the

11 specifics, and I just want to highlight these

12 main points.

13 The Employee Protection Provision,

14 which I'll refer to as the EPP, had been

15 included in all transportation contracts

16 issued by the City of New York since 1979,

17 and in forms of the EPP even earlier than

18 that. Under the EPP, private bus company

19 employees, whether they are members of Local

20 1181, another union, or no union at all, who

21 are laid off due to a termination of a

22 contract between their employer and the

23 Department of Education, are, on the basis of

24 their seniority in the industry, given

438

1 priority in hiring by the new contractors who

2 are retained by the Department of Education.

3 The EPPs ensure that workers in the

4 industry retain their wages, medical and

5 pension benefits, which stabilizes the

6 pension fund. Currently, there is a $250

7 million withdrawal liability, which New York

8 City might be on the hook for. And with the

9 inclusion of the EPPs back in the bids, we

10 would get an exemption to the withdrawal

11 liability. With the EPPs in place, the

12 Department of Education is able to retain the

13 most experienced, skilled drivers and matrons

14 to best serve the children and give the

15 parents peace of mind.

16 As a result of the ill-advised

17 decision of the Bloomberg Administration to

18 remove the EPPs, the entire school bus

19 transportation industry in the City of

20 New York has been destabilized. With the

21 inclusion of EPPs in school bus contracts for

22 so many years, there was a stabilizing effect

23 on the workforce. Turnover was low, job

24 actions and strikes were nonexistent.

439

1 Without the EPPs, this is no longer the case.

2 For drivers and matrons in the

3 industry in those days, it was a career for

4 those who chose to do that type of work. Now

5 it has become a transient job which pays low

6 wages, no medical, and has currently caused a

7 shortage of drivers in New York City.

8 The administration of Mayor Bill de

9 Blasio supports restoring the EPP to the RFPs

10 and RFBs of the City of New York. In

11 addition to the support of the mayor, we also

12 have the support of the AFL-CIO, the

13 Teamsters, the Central Labor Council, the

14 Long Island Federation of Labor, and the

15 New York State Contractors Association, which

16 includes many of the bus companies that bid

17 on these RFBs or RFPs. And parent advocacy

18 groups, including Parents to Improve School

19 Transportation.

20 In addition to supporting legislation

21 to require that inclusion of the EPPs, we

22 also support a proposal by the New York State

23 School Bus Contractors Association that would

24 change how extensions of existing

440

1 transportation contracts are priced. And I

2 will let them cover the specifics in their

3 proposal.

4 In conclusion, Local 1181 strongly

5 encourages you to include this package of

6 proposals in your proposed budgets. We know

7 that these proposals will once gain stabilize

8 the school bus transportation industry in the

9 City of New York and return to a time when

10 there was a stable and reliable workforce

11 available to transport our most vulnerable

12 schoolchildren. After all, safety is our

13 ultimate goal.

14 Thank you.

15 MR. MARTUCCI: Thank you, Mike.

16 Good evening, Chairman Farrell and

17 Chairwoman Young and the entire committee.

18 Thank you for staying to this late hour on

19 Valentine's Day with us. I too will be

20 brief.

21 My name is Michael Martucci. I'm the

22 owner of quality bus service and the

23 president of the New York School Bus

24 Contractors Association, and to my right is

441

1 Bree Allen, association vice president.

2 As Mr. Cordiello said, we come with a

3 package of reforms, three items that are

4 critical to the school bus industry here in

5 New York. He spoke to the first one,

6 Employee Protection Provisions for New York

7 City school bus workers, and I'll be speaking

8 briefly to the next two.

9 Again, thank you to both houses of our

10 Legislature that supported legislation last

11 year with regard to these items.

12 First, the Employment Cost Index. The

13 Employment Cost Index -- we proposed to have

14 the Employment Cost Index replace the CPI, or

15 the Consumer Price Index, for contract

16 extensions here in New York State school

17 transportation contract extensions. At

18 present the CPI is simply an index that does

19 not make sense for school transportation,

20 because most of our costs are employment

21 costs. And in order for us to forward our

22 budgets responsibly and in order to help our

23 school districts forward their budgets

24 responsibly, it simply would be an index

442

1 that's more indicative of transportation

2 costs.

3 Second, the ECI is a relatively static

4 or steady number. Over the past 10 years,

5 ECI has hovered just around 2 percent,

6 whereas CPI has increased and decreased, even

7 just in the last year, as you see. We're

8 expecting nearly a 2 percent increase in CPI.

9 So this assists our districts partners in

10 managing their budgets well.

11 Third and finally is a provision that

12 we've been talking about for several years

13 and we were very happy to have your support

14 on last year, which is the exemption of sales

15 tax on school buses. Very simply, the school

16 buses in New York State presently are subject

17 to sales tax, as are the parts and the fuel

18 associated with those school buses. And

19 that's a cost that we're passing directly

20 along to our school district customers each

21 and every day here in the state.

22 There's an estimated $14 million of

23 savings. By exempting buses from sales tax,

24 we would be able to pass that savings along

443

1 to our districts. Essentially now it's

2 simply a budget merry-go-round where the cost

3 of sales tax is included in our invoice, our

4 cost of services to the district, and the

5 school districts -- with your help in terms

6 of state aid -- and the local taxpayers are

7 essentially bearing the cost of that sales

8 tax.

9 So in sum, these three items again

10 really are critical to maintaining the safety

11 of the students that we transport here in

12 New York, some 2.3 million students each day.

13 And certainly I think one thing that we all

14 share in common here at the table,

15 representing both management and labor in

16 this industry, is that the most important

17 thing that we do and the thing that we're

18 entrusted with is the safety of our kids.

19 And we really want to preserve that moving

20 forward.

21 We thank you for your help and your

22 support in doing so.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

24 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: So it's great when

444

1 labor and management can get together on

2 important issues. So thank you so much for

3 being here today.

4 MR. CORDIELLO: Thank you for letting

5 us testify.

6 MR. MARTUCCI: Thank you. Thank you

7 all for your time.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Peter Mannella,

9 executive director, New York Association of

10 Pupil Transportation.

11 Randi Levine will be next, and then

12 Todd Vaarwerk. And if you come down, you can

13 get in quicker. Come on down if you're going

14 to be testifying.

15 MR. MANNELLA: Good evening -- or good

16 afternoon.

17 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Good afternoon.

18 MR. MANNELLA: Happy Valentine's Day.

19 In order to gain myself some points, I

20 would share my new grandfatherhood with all

21 of you. And it's mellowed me, so I won't be

22 the contentious person I normally am.

23 My name is Peter Mannella, executive

24 director of the New York Association for

445

1 Pupil Transportation. Our members are

2 dedicated to the safe and efficient

3 transportation of the 2.3 million children

4 who ride school buses every day. We share

5 that mission of safety and efficiency with

6 our friends from the Contractors Association.

7 New York, you should know, has one of

8 the best safety records in the nation for

9 school bus transportation, and that's due to

10 the consistent excellence of the

11 professionals who manage the programs,

12 maintain the buses, train the drivers and

13 attendants, do the dispatching and routing,

14 and actually sit behind the wheel of the

15 school bus and drive. They're among the most

16 dedicated people you'd ever want to meet.

17 We come here today with several

18 requests, and I'll try to keep them brief

19 because you have our written statement, which

20 has some documentation contained.

21 First, we thank the Governor and the

22 Legislature for continued support of

23 transportation aid as an expense-based aid

24 and for fully funding that year in and year

446

1 out. It's a very important service for our

2 school districts and for our students.

3 Without that yellow bus, those 2.5 million

4 children would not get to the education to

5 which they're entitled.

6 So we support the Governor's budget

7 proposal which fully funds school

8 transportation.

9 Second, we are looking for help in an

10 area that continues to grow and that this

11 Legislature has talked about expanding, and

12 that's in prekindergarten programs. Whether

13 there are one or seven, those children need

14 transportation and we'd like to expand

15 transportation services to cover them.

16 The problem right now is that school

17 districts are precluded from requesting

18 transportation aid to reimburse them for the

19 costs of that transportation. Chapter 241

20 that was passed in 2012 allowed districts to

21 do the transportation, but very specifically

22 carved them out in terms of reimbursement for

23 those costs. And we'd request that that be

24 rectified in this budget. We've brought this

447

1 to your attention the past couple of years,

2 and we hope that this is the year that some

3 attention can be paid to it.

4 We know that several advocacy groups

5 as well as the other education lobbies are

6 supportive of this, and we hope that they'll

7 voice that support in the coming weeks.

8 Three, an area that is not talked

9 about often, but becomes increasingly

10 important in light of the prekindergarten

11 transportation which puts littler kids on our

12 buses that need more attention; security

13 concerns in terms of some acts of violence,

14 even potentially terrorism or just student

15 violence on the bus; and, three, the issue of

16 bullying and harassment and disputes between

17 children on the bus.

18 And the issue is monitors. Currently,

19 schools cannot be reimbursed for the cost of

20 school bus monitors. They can be reimbursed

21 for the cost of a school bus attendant that's

22 identified in the student's Individual

23 Education plan, according to special ed laws

24 in the state. But that monitor that's put on

448

1 there for an additional set of eyes and hands

2 for the school bus driver or to help maintain

3 order on the bus or to keep the kids safe

4 getting on and off the bus, that cost is not

5 in fact allowable for transportation aid.

6 We think with the kind of mounting

7 number of issues for which that second adult

8 might be useful and beneficial, that we

9 should revisit the issue of monitors being

10 eligible for transportation aid.

11 Fourth would be the issue of our

12 school bus driver training fund. We

13 currently spend and have spent consistently,

14 since 1997, $400,000 a year on school bus

15 driver training programs. That's still only

16 $400,000. I don't do math well, but I think

17 its value right now is about $300,000 in

18 inflation.

19 We're requesting an increase to

20 $500,000, and we've identified in our

21 testimony four areas that we think that the

22 Education Department would do well to invest

23 that. We're not asking you to carve it out

24 specifically, but at a minimum we would like

449

1 to work with the Education Department on

2 pre-K transportation, some special ed

3 transportation issues, bullying-related

4 transportation issues, and giving drivers the

5 skills they need in case there is an act of

6 violence on their school bus. Again, the

7 increase would be to $500,000, the first in

8 20 years.

9 And lastly, we're asking for funding

10 to help -- and this could be built into

11 Transportation Aid or Building Aid, but we

12 need to have security around the school buses

13 in the form of fencing, lighting, cameras,

14 surveillance equipment. About 40 percent of

15 the 50,000 buses in this state are in lots

16 now that are open, and those are just bright

17 yellow invitations to trouble.

18 And we've had a number of incidents

19 that we've recorded in our testimony around

20 the state, many in rural areas and suburban

21 areas. But I think this is something we need

22 to find a way to address, particularly with

23 some of the instances that are going on in

24 our society.

450

1 We're proud of the record we've

2 attained, we're grateful for the support

3 you've shown for transportation over the

4 years, and we look forward to working with

5 you in the coming weeks.

6 And I can answer any questions you

7 have. Thank you.

8 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

9 MR. MANNELLA: Thank you.

10 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you, Peter,

11 for everything. Look forward to talking with

12 you soon. So thank you.

13 MR. MANNELLA: Thank you very much.

14 Have a good evening.

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

16 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Randi Levine,

17 policy coordinator, Advocates for Children of

18 New York.

19 MS. LEVINE: Thank you for the

20 opportunity to speak with you today. My name

21 is Randi Levine, and I am policy director of

22 Advocates for Children of New York.

23 For 45 years, Advocates for Children

24 has worked to ensure a high-quality education

451

1 for students who face barriers to academic

2 success, with a focus on students from

3 low-income backgrounds. Every year we help

4 thousands of students and families navigate

5 the education system, and based on this

6 experience we have a number of

7 recommendations.

8 First, we were glad today to see

9 attention paid to the need for multiple

10 pathways to a high school diploma. In 2016,

11 about 20 percent of New York students failed

12 to graduate from high school in four years.

13 For English language learners, only

14 27 percent graduated within four years, and

15 only 52 percent of students with disabilities

16 graduated in this timeline.

17 Career and Technical Education

18 programs can help close the high school

19 graduation gap. These programs can be

20 particularly helpful for students with

21 disabilities and English language learners,

22 who often struggle in traditional classroom

23 settings. Unfortunately, however, these

24 students often encounter barriers to

452

1 accessing CTE programs.

2 We are very pleased that the Executive

3 Budget renews the state's $1 million

4 investment to provide CTE programs with

5 support and resources to help eliminate such

6 barriers for ELLs and students with

7 disabilities, and we urge you to include this

8 funding in the budget.

9 Currently, students who have mastered

10 state standards but who struggle on

11 high-stakes Regents exams are unable to

12 graduate from high school in New York State.

13 Performance-based assessments would provide

14 these students with an opportunity to

15 demonstrate their knowledge and skills so

16 they can receive a high school diploma. In

17 its State Budget priorities, the Board of

18 Regents requested $8 million to develop

19 performance-based assessments, but this

20 funding is not in the Executive Budget. And

21 we urge the Legislature to include $8 million

22 to pilot performance-based assessments as

23 alternatives to high school Regents exams.

24 Second, students in temporary housing.

453

1 We are very pleased that the Executive Budget

2 includes changes to state law to align with

3 the recent federal changes to the

4 McKinney-Vento Homeless Assistance Act. The

5 important changes include things such as

6 extending protections for students in

7 temporary housing to preschool students and

8 addressing barriers to participation in

9 summer school and after-school activities.

10 We fully support the proposed McKinney-Vento

11 Act amendments in the Executive Budget.

12 We do have one additional

13 recommendation that we have in more detail in

14 our written testimony. We're requesting that

15 in cases where public transportation would

16 not be a viable option for a student in

17 temporary housing to get to their original

18 school, that school districts be required to

19 provide an alternative form of

20 transportation. This applies largely in

21 New York City, where many students in

22 temporary housing are still given only a

23 MetroCard to get to school. While that is

24 sufficient for most students, there are

454

1 students such as those with a parent who has

2 a physical disability and can't transport

3 their young child on multiple subways in

4 order to keep their child in their original

5 school when they become homeless.

6 Next, school climate. Schools need to

7 create safe school environments, but

8 suspensions can create more problems than

9 they solve because they force students to

10 miss valuable instructional time and fail to

11 address issues that underlie the student's

12 behavior.

13 We recommend that the budget include

14 $50 million for a new competitive grant

15 program that allows schools to implement or

16 expand positive approaches to discipline such

17 as restorative practices training for school

18 staff and administrators, peer mediation

19 training and facilitation, and additional

20 guidance counselors, social workers, and

21 school psychologists.

22 Next, pre-K. We are grateful to

23 Governor Cuomo and to the Legislature for

24 increasing funding for pre-K, allowing

455

1 New York City to reach the milestone of

2 having a full-day pre-K seat available for

3 every 4-year-old. However, we know that the

4 state has more work to do in order to provide

5 universal access to all children across the

6 state. We appreciate the additional $5

7 million in the Executive Budget, but it

8 doesn't go far enough. We would recommend an

9 additional $125 million in order to help meet

10 the need.

11 We also support the consolidation of

12 pre-K programs but do want to make sure that

13 all school districts are able to sustain the

14 funding that they've had in prior years so

15 they can continue the pre-K programs that

16 already exist.

17 English language learners. We support

18 the Board of Regents' request for an

19 additional $100 million in order to support

20 English language learners. And our written

21 testimony echoes the Board of Regents in

22 terms of how that funding could be spent

23 effectively to help this population that

24 really does need additional support right

456

1 now.

2 Once again, as in past years, the

3 Executive Budget includes a special education

4 waiver. We are very concerned about the fact

5 that this would allow school districts to

6 seek waivers from important protections for

7 students with disabilities. We appreciate

8 that the Legislature has rejected this

9 proposal in the past and ask you to ensure

10 that the final budget does not include this

11 proposal this year.

12 And just quickly, we echo the call for

13 increased Foundation Aid. We think that

14 Foundation Aid needs to be increased by at

15 least $2 billion over last year, and to

16 reject the elimination of the Foundation Aid

17 formula in future years.

18 Our written testimony contains more

19 information on these recommendations as well

20 as a few others. Thank you for your time,

21 and I'm happy to answer any questions that

22 you have.

23 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: I have a

457

1 question, just a brief one. I know we're

2 running so late, but ...

3 You know, there was an article -- you

4 guys are some of the leading proponents about

5 multiple pathways to graduation. We would

6 love working with you. We've known you guys

7 a long time. But if you notice, the New York

8 Times yesterday wrote that State Ed "did they

9 lower the bar for graduation, or did they

10 provide multiple pathways for students?"

11 And I have to say, you know, advocates

12 come in here every day -- we're here on our

13 tenth hour -- but nobody helps us clarify

14 what went on. So what do you think went on?

15 Did we lower the bar, or did we provide

16 multiple pathways for students? Would you

17 comment on that?

18 MS. LEVINE: Advocates for Children

19 certainly fully supports the need to develop

20 additional pathways in order to reach a high

21 school diploma. We do believe that there are

22 multiple ways for students to demonstrate

23 that they've mastered rigorous standards, and

24 we think that the state has taken important

458

1 steps toward doing that, and that it should

2 continue to do that.

3 We also worry in certain cases about

4 not --

5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Well, it's nice

6 to have it both ways, but sometimes you

7 can't. So what I would suggest for a group

8 like yours is when you read an article like

9 that, you consider writing a letter to the

10 editor to talk about your work, which has

11 influenced State Ed's decisions, but then

12 when the decisions are made that help those

13 students and there's criticism, we don't get

14 the support. And it's very, very

15 frustrating.

16 So no disrespect, love the group, not

17 trying to seize on you. Lots of groups. But

18 read the papers. You know, if you feel that

19 they've done something that's valuable, say

20 it. Because otherwise we've had 10 years of

21 back-and-forth on that question. And I

22 really don't believe we've lowered the bar.

23 I think we've made it easier for students who

24 have challenges to not be held accountable by

459

1 only a Regents test. We've said there are

2 some other pathways.

3 But we're going to need people like

4 you to support that when other people take

5 shots and then it's in the newspaper. That's

6 all I'm saying.

7 MS. LEVINE: We would definitely be

8 happy to work with you on that. Advocates

9 for children leads the coalition for multiple

10 pathways to a diploma, and we would love to

11 work with you and others on that.

12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thank you.

13 Thank you.

14 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Yes?

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: You know, it was a

16 parallel question, so we're done. Thank you.

17 MS. LEVINE: Thank you.

18 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

19 much.

20 Todd Vaarwerk, director, advocacy and

21 public policy, WNY Independent Living, for

22 New York Association of Independent Living.

23 MR. VAARWERK: Thank you so much. I

24 know at this part of the day my last name is

460

1 extremely hard to pronounce.

2 ASSEMBLYMAN OAKS: So what is it?

3 MR. VAARWERK: Var-work. Vaarwerk is

4 my name. And I work for the Independent

5 Living Center in Buffalo, and I also have the

6 pleasure of delivering the testimony for the

7 New York Association on Independent Living,

8 which are 41 locations that assist people

9 with disabilities from birth to death in

10 actualizing integrated and empowered lives.

11 I'm not going to read my testimony. I

12 really want to get to the high point. And

13 I'm going to be honest, this is the third

14 year in a row I've done this and I'm really

15 looking for some help.

16 We need the budgets to support the

17 Regents' recommendation to move the New York

18 State Independent Living allocation to

19 $18 million, and here's why. Back in

20 Buffalo, where I'm from, Medicaid redesign

21 has been both a blessing and a curse. And

22 when we're dealing with schoolchildren and

23 young adults in transition, which is a

24 required service paradigm for Independent

461

1 Living Centers, and adults who are done with

2 the education system that we are serving day

3 to day, we are the last line of defense in an

4 area where silos are deepening.

5 Where Medicaid redesign was meant to

6 make things easier for people to access the

7 services that they need to stay healthy,

8 we're finding that consumers of all ages are

9 having increased difficulty getting those

10 services, in school and out of school.

11 Independent Living are the only people that

12 can cross those silos.

13 For example, if you're classified by

14 your school district as having a

15 developmental disability, you'll get services

16 from OPWDD, if you know enough to apply and

17 get eligible. But you won't get mental

18 health services if you need those services

19 under an OPWDD waiver, because OMH won't

20 accept them.

21 Consequently, on the other side, if

22 you're classified as emotionally disturbed,

23 which is a really bad classification for a

24 mental health disability, you can get

462

1 counseling services and services from the

2 Office of Mental Health. But if you have a

3 co-occurring disability that requires

4 additional services, that becomes really,

5 really difficult to get.

6 And the Centers for Independent Living

7 in the state have been fighting that battle

8 and going into those silos and doing it year

9 after year. And every year I come and I say,

10 please invest in the Independent Living

11 Networks, and last year you did. You gave us

12 a million dollars, which is basically a cost

13 of living that -- because we haven't been

14 covered in 12 years. And then, somewhere in

15 state government, the language became "it

16 shouldn't be used to support the network of

17 centers, it should be used to create new

18 ones." Now, while I'm not going to begrudge

19 communities that need an Independent Living

20 Center to have one, what that basically did

21 was gut the entire support for the rest of

22 the network.

23 We really need to show that these

24 services are critical, from the child who

463

1 goes to Early Intervention the first day, to

2 the high schooler who's in transition to try

3 and find work in a technical trade, all the

4 way to the adults who may not have been

5 appropriately served by their district but

6 now they need help in getting a job or

7 getting support so that they can live

8 independently. Because if they don't, if we

9 don't give them the supports, where they're

10 going to end up is nursing homes and

11 psychiatric institutions where the average

12 cost is, according to my region of the state

13 alone, $124,000 per person per year, most of

14 which is just paid for out of Medicaid

15 dollars.

16 That's pretty much all I have. I'm

17 available to answer any questions that you

18 might have. I'm just -- it's a long day.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

20 Questions?

21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

22 It is a long day, and I appreciate

23 your coming up here every year. And I think

24 the navigator role -- I think you used the

464

1 word in the testimony -- is critically

2 important.

3 MR. VAARWERK: Yes.

4 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm a little

5 confused why we've sort of put you in the

6 education budget, because I think maybe you

7 get lost because you're doing so many

8 important things but they all seem to impact

9 many other state funding streams.

10 MR. VAARWERK: Well, I'm going to say

11 that that was a classic legislative decision.

12 That was back when the Independent Living

13 movement was first founded.

14 We've tried to create a State Office

15 for Community Living where independent living

16 and those related community services could

17 move under there and kind of be represented

18 by themselves. But while we continue to

19 support that proposal and would like that

20 proposal to move forward, there was

21 significant resistance, primarily from the

22 aging community, which we're still working

23 through.

24 Yes, and in the Education Department

465

1 we are sometimes kind of forgotten. This

2 year, however, we have the Regents' support

3 to move the allocation to $18 million and

4 were surprised to discover that we were

5 level-funded at 13.2.

6 SENATOR KRUEGER: And is there another

7 agency that would potentially be more

8 logical, OCFS --

9 MR. VAARWERK: We have that

10 conversation every few years.

11 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- Health?

12 MR. VAARWERK: It's a thing where

13 independent living doesn't fit a particular

14 mold for anything. For example, if you moved

15 us out of Education and you moved us to

16 Labor, Labor would want us to concentrate on

17 jobs. And not everything that we do is

18 always concentrating on jobs.

19 So it's that question of where the

20 appropriate place is, which is why the

21 administrative direction was to go to a State

22 Office on Community Living, to follow the

23 very successful federal example. And I was

24 shocked with the level of resistance that the

466

1 aging community had to joining and bringing

2 that efficiency to New York.

3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Because you even --

4 in your testimony, you reference Medicaid

5 redesign.

6 MR. VAARWERK: Yes.

7 SENATOR KRUEGER: And as we all know,

8 having been living through it for multiple

9 years now, when you make the argument that by

10 providing some basic community-level services

11 you actually help people stay in their own

12 homes, be independent, move on with their

13 lives and save the state funding streams an

14 enormous amount of money, disproportionately

15 through the health/mental health/OPWDD

16 categories, which are all somehow always

17 Medicaid-interrelated --

18 MR. VAARWERK: In Medicaid redesign,

19 they call those social determinants. I was

20 shocked to find out, when I gave testimony

21 recently to the Department of Health, that

22 only a very small amount of the Medicaid

23 redesign money that was eligible for billing

24 last year went to agencies like mine that

467

1 dealt with social determinants. It was

2 $12 million out of an estimated pool of

3 $1.8 billion.

4 But again, the problem with that is

5 that funding comes with restrictions. There

6 are things that we are not allowed to do with

7 that money. I can't help a person with

8 multiple sclerosis with OPWDD money. I can't

9 help a developmentally disabled person with

10 OMH money I receive. And DOH money comes

11 with restrictions. You can only help people

12 that meet the criteria for the program DOH is

13 funding. And basically what that does is

14 that creates a lot of mini-silos that we have

15 to figure out a way to navigate so that we

16 can help the consumers navigate them and be

17 more efficient.

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: So even though you

19 talked about the example of having issues

20 when you were exploring a certain model

21 because of concerns in the aging community --

22 I come from New York City, so I don't know if

23 this term means anything upstate, but we have

24 one-stop-shop sites for seniors to come to to

468

1 explore getting access and help with a whole

2 range of different services and benefits a

3 senior might need.

4 And it seems to me that's not so

5 different than a Center for Independent --

6 MR. VAARWERK: No, actually it isn't.

7 And we locally in upstate have a very good

8 reputation with our Offices on Aging and the

9 Aging Disability Resource Centers. Aging is

10 doing things like expanding the NY Connects

11 program, and centers are becoming very big

12 parts of that. I think it was the idea of

13 combining them under the department that met

14 the most resistance.

15 SENATOR KRUEGER: I hope that we can

16 be helpful, because I know for a fact that

17 these are incredibly valuable and important

18 programs throughout the state. I've worked

19 with the centers in New York City, know how

20 irreplaceable they are, and frankly the

21 concept that we just keep seeing you being

22 reduced in dollars -- because your testimony

23 points out we added two more sites, which I'm

24 sure is wonderful and we needed them, but it

469

1 just ended up reducing your budgets per

2 center even more.

3 MR. VAARWERK: Yes, and I want to

4 highlight that that came to us in the middle

5 of a budget year. After State Ed had

6 informed us to do a budget mod to cover the

7 raise for cost of living, they subsequently

8 looked at the language and then retroactively

9 sent out something that demanded we reduce.

10 At my location, we put all of that

11 into salaries so that we could hold on to

12 people that have been very valuably trained

13 in some pretty obscure issues of disability,

14 and we needed not to fill positions that were

15 vacant in order to meet the demand to take

16 the cut in midyear.

17 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm sorry you're

18 going through so much trouble. Thank you

19 very much.

20 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

21 MR. VAARWERK: My pleasure.

22 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

23 Westbury Union Free School District,

24 Mary A. Lagnado, superintendent.

470

1 SUPERINTENDENT LAGNADO: Good

2 afternoon, members of the Senate and the

3 Assembly. Thank you so much for allowing me

4 this testimony. We have been waiting for a

5 long time to talk to you and tell you our

6 story, what is happening in Westbury.

7 As you can see from the testimony, we

8 are a school district that has been focused

9 only on the educational achievement of our

10 students. And one of our goals was achieved

11 this year, as read in the testimony, that

12 89 percent of our African-American students

13 graduated in the four-year cohort, as

14 compared to 68 percent statewide.

15 Additionally, 84 percent of our graduating

16 students were college and career ready.

17 Now we have a dilemma that is New York

18 State-induced. The funding formula is

19 ill-suited to declining wealth and

20 high-growth enrollment districts like

21 Westbury. Alone in Westbury we've increased,

22 from 2007, when we had 4,037 students, to our

23 present 5,388. That is an enrollment growth

24 of 30 percent over these 10 years, with

471

1 diverse groups and with the impact of

2 multiple fiscal variables.

3 How do you maintain a high rate of

4 achievement and go forward with a

5 constraining Foundation Aid base?

6 Historically, as you all know, free and

7 reduced-price lunch applications has been the

8 basis for extraordinary needs funding. In

9 some measure, extraordinary needs

10 calculations were the proxy for poverty. One

11 reason that we are severely underfunded is

12 because Westbury schools are located in a

13 pocket of poverty in the extremely wealthy

14 county of Nassau.

15 And let me give you the rates that

16 portray Westbury's dilemma. We have

17 86 percent per the free and reduced lunch

18 applications, 19.3 percent per the Title I

19 federal Census, and 8.4 percent with the

20 Census data of SAIPE.

21 How are these above rates equalized

22 for state aid purposes? Last year the New

23 York State Education Department State Aid

24 Committee began the process to redefine state

472

1 aid because of how the Community Eligibility

2 Provision, CEP, of the School Breakfast and

3 Lunch Program displaced the free and reduced

4 lunch applications as a methodology for state

5 aid distribution. Westbury is 100 percent

6 CEP. In other words, our direct

7 certification rate -- a combination of SNAP,

8 which is food stamps, recipients and Medicaid

9 eligibility residents -- define that status.

10 It is the new definition of poverty. The

11 State Education subcommittee reported to you,

12 and subsequently the Regents made a

13 recommendation to the Governor. The most

14 discriminatory aspects of the recommendations

15 are in the present Governor's proposal.

16 The present state aid runs do not

17 reflect the dramatically increasing fiscal

18 requirements for the economically

19 disadvantaged student population of the

20 Westbury School District. Now the Governor

21 will use the Census Small Area Income Poverty

22 Estimator, SAIPE, for calculating state aid

23 distribution and freeze the base again. The

24 Census SAIPE calculation for Nassau County is

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1 8.4 percent. That means that Westbury's data

2 set is averaged with the rest of

3 Nassau County for fixing the Foundation Aid

4 formula. In terms of Title I funding,

5 Westbury and New York State distribution for

6 state aid is not equally distributed.

7 Westbury will not be fighting the

8 federal government, nor will Westbury be

9 suing New York State, even though others have

10 suggested this path. So what are our

11 options?

12 And I wanted to talk about this,

13 because one factor when state aid is

14 distributed, everyone looks at the fund

15 balance that a school district has. Yes,

16 those are the reserves, those are the

17 distributions that we save for a rainy day.

18 Well, in Westbury it's pouring. The fund

19 balance reserves are diminishing.

20 Westbury has been well-managed. In

21 fact, right now we have zero fiscal stress.

22 I myself have received the Eagle Award, the

23 ASBO national achievement for educational

24 leadership. My team of administrators and

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1 teachers has developed a culture of learning.

2 We have a professional learning community.

3 We have an after-school program where over

4 1,000 middle school students are attending

5 every day. And my middle school is a focus

6 school. And three years in a row, we have

7 applied for funding for extended day without

8 any success. Funding has been denied for zip

9 code 11568, Old Westbury, where only 58 of

10 our 6,127 students reside -- that is 25

11 students per square mile. But neither the

12 state nor the federal funding sources sees

13 the census tracts for Westbury's New Cassel,

14 where there are 4,000 students per square

15 mile. Ninety-nine percent of our in-district

16 students are African-American and Hispanic.

17 But let me get back to the fund

18 balance a little bit, and I'll finish

19 quickly. Because of Part 154 and other

20 mandates, we cannot downsize. We don't have

21 that luxury. Westbury is precluded from

22 cutting our budget. We even have a directive

23 from the Attorney General to provide

24 specialized services. We need a plan for the

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1 long-term. We need an equitable funding base

2 to plan for the future.

3 Our wealthy neighbors Jericho and

4 Carle Place, their Foundation Aid formulas

5 are 152.6 percent and 71.7 percent,

6 respectively. Westbury has been funded at

7 39.7 percent of phase-in Foundation Aid for

8 the last several years. And subsequently we

9 will be out of unrestricted reserves by June

10 of 2019.

11 As my testimony shows, we have been

12 appropriated. We've been appropriated for

13 the unrestricted fund balance and our

14 restricted reserves. And by the measures and

15 by our calculations, by June of 2019 we will

16 be out of those reserves.

17 The only other option for Westbury

18 will be if it is made whole by placing a

19 floor of 55 percent of the phase-in

20 Foundation Aid formula. That would help

21 32 districts statewide, creating a better

22 fiscal base at the cost of $48.4 million. If

23 you implemented a phase-in of, let's say,

24 only 50 percent, it would impact 14 districts

476

1 at a cost of $22.8 million.

2 Our options are defined by mandates

3 and lack of funding. Help us to request an

4 equitable Foundation Aid formula that does

5 not include such a low baseline. If a

6 baseline is to go into effect, we ask that

7 you make the basis at least 55 percent of the

8 phase-in percentage.

9 I thank you for the opportunity and

10 for the time, and I do want to thank you all

11 for all of the support we have previously

12 received, and we hope that that will

13 continue.

14 I have my trustee, Karin Campbell,

15 here, former board president, and the

16 president of our school board, Robin Bolling,

17 who traveled from Westbury with me today.

18 So thank you.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you.

20 Assemblywoman Simon has just joined

21 us.

22 Assemblyman Ra.

23 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you, Denny.

24 And thank you guys for being here.

477

1 you know, I represent a portion of this

2 district, and we had a pretty good

3 conversation a few weeks ago with some of the

4 other Assembly representatives and our

5 Senator, Elaine Phillips, who's here as well.

6 And one of the things I asked you that day,

7 but I just wanted to ask it again so you can

8 put it on the record for my colleagues here,

9 is regarding our Part 154 in terms of, you

10 know, how many teachers you've had to hire,

11 so what the staff impact is both in terms of

12 actual employees and fiscally, because this

13 is a district that is unique in that so many

14 districts are either flat enrollment or

15 having reduced enrollment. And as you show

16 in the chart there, this is a district that

17 continues to grow in enrollment.

18 SUPERINTENDENT LAGNADO: Well, thank

19 you. In trying to answer that question, I'd

20 like to say that as of July 1st of 2016, our

21 high school has enrolled 200 additional

22 students. Right now, in the high school that

23 was built for 1200 students, we have 1600.

24 And most of them are children of other

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1 countries coming in with limited language.

2 So as you mentioned, we have had to

3 hire about 38 new teachers this year. And 12

4 of them were, of course, retirees, but the

5 most is for the ELL teachers, for our special

6 education teachers.

7 And all of the districts are now

8 having to hire because of Part 154. So we're

9 all competing from the same pool. And right

10 now it almost took us since September, we've

11 been trying to hire a bilingual reading

12 teacher, and just right now we were able to

13 secure one.

14 So it's becoming more difficult

15 because we don't know who's coming through

16 the door. Although we prepare and we do

17 budgets and we do projections, and we know

18 how many we're going to hire, when it comes

19 from July, it's unending, we are getting more

20 and more children enrolling in our district.

21 Therefore, we don't know what specialized

22 licenses we need. It's an ongoing basis.

23 And recruitment is becoming a problem,

24 not only because of the certifications but

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1 also because of the fiscal constraints and

2 our money constraints that we have.

3 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you.

4 SUPERINTENDENT LAGNADO: Thank you.

5 CHAIRWOMAN YOUNG: Thank you. We

6 appreciate your testimony very much, and we

7 wish you safe travels as you go back. So

8 thank you.

9 SUPERINTENDENT LAGNADO: Thank you.

10 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you very

11 much.

12 Now, New York State PTA, the executive

13 director, Kyle -- I'm not going there.

14 MS. BELOKOPITSKY: You don't have to.

15 I understand, chairman. It's a tough last

16 name.

17 SENATOR KRUEGER: We wanted you to

18 pronounce it. None of us thought we could.

19 MS. BELOKOPITSKY: Belokopitsky.

20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Of course.

21 MS. BELOKOPITSKY: Yes. I went from a

22 nice Irish-Catholic Kyle McCauley to Kyle

23 Belokopitsky when I married.

24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: We're so happy

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1 that parents are represented in the great job

2 that you're doing, Kyle. Very great job.

3 MS. BELOKOPITSKY: Thank you so much,

4 Assemblywoman.

5 I am Kyle McCauley Belokopitsky, the

6 executive director of the New York State

7 Congress of Parents and Teachers, and am

8 extremely proud to represent 300,000 members

9 of the New York State PTA and the families of

10 2.46 million schoolchildren.

11 Thank you to Chairman Farrell, Senator

12 Young, Assemblywoman Nolan, Senator

13 Marcellino, and other members of the

14 Legislature for your interest and attendance

15 today.

16 I will not read our testimony but

17 briefly summarize a few points.

18 New York schools have amazing

19 successes, and I am a proud public school

20 parent. We have more students taking

21 advanced placement examinations, more Intel

22 Science and Siemens award winners than most

23 states. Our students excel in Career and

24 Technical Education, they perform and create

481

1 amazing works of art.

2 However, our challenges are real too.

3 While some school districts have declining

4 enrollment, more than 200 school districts

5 show growth in New York. We have some of the

6 biggest city school districts and some of the

7 smallest rural schools. More than 50 percent

8 of our students in New York now live in some

9 level of poverty, half of them qualifying for

10 free or reduced-price lunch, and many

11 students have special learning or education

12 needs. Our schools welcome thousands of ELL

13 students, some with interrupted formal

14 education, some as unaccompanied minors who

15 speak more than 200 languages in our schools.

16 More than 100,000 students are homeless or

17 living in temporary housing. And our schools

18 continue to do more with less, trying each

19 and every day to move a child on a pathway to

20 good citizenship and graduation.

21 The need to provide students and

22 schools with resources has never been more

23 important, and the New York State PTA calls

24 for a $2.0 billion increase in school aid, to

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1 include $1.5 billion for current school

2 services and $500 million to address priority

3 programs.

4 We are greatly concerned with proposed

5 changes to the school aid formula which

6 eliminates the predictability necessary to

7 plan for future school aid calculations. We

8 do not support the proposal to use the

9 previous year's Foundation Aid as a base,

10 especially because it does not include the

11 previous fiscal shortfalls of more than

12 $4 billion, with a "b."

13 We also join in calls for tax cap

14 reforms, common-sense exemptions, and at

15 least a real 2 percent levy limit.

16 On English language learners and their

17 families, near and dear to PTA's heart,

18 New York State has long been the gateway for

19 immigrant success and the door to the

20 American dream. Adequately supporting our

21 ELL students and their families is most

22 important, and we ask that you consider

23 additional dedicated funding for ELL students

24 and unaccompanied minor students, as well as

483

1 review of the cost of Part 154, accelerated

2 teacher training for all educators in

3 supporting ELL students, and expanded

4 capacity to provide translation services for

5 key parent documents and other materials.

6 New York State PTA proudly has begun

7 to translate our own documents in Spanish,

8 three dialects of Chinese, and Arabic, with

9 more languages to come.

10 We also continue to call for more

11 fiscal support and programmatic services for

12 our students with disabilities and their

13 families, and look forward to doing this work

14 with you together.

15 On family engagement, parent and

16 family engagement is a key indicator for

17 success of a child, and thankfully the new

18 federal Every Student Succeeds Act mandates

19 parental involvement in education. New York

20 State PTA strongly supports continued

21 investments in services, programs and

22 policies that lead to effective family

23 engagement in our schools.

24 On Community Schools, we know that

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1 they are an effective strategy for student

2 success. While there is a $50 million

3 set-aside included in the Foundation Aid

4 increase, we support sustained funding for

5 struggling and persistently struggling

6 schools, and we continue to be concerned

7 about the punitive nature of the current

8 receivership model. Importantly, all schools

9 should be afforded the opportunity to

10 transform their schools into community hubs.

11 On after-school and pre-K, nearly half

12 a million school-aged children in New York

13 are without a safe and/or educational

14 after-school program. We support the

15 $35 million allocation to fund the Empire

16 State After-School Program. However, support

17 is also needed across the state in all areas.

18 And we know that high-quality free and

19 low-cost prekindergarten for both

20 3-and-4-year-old children is critically

21 important. We support both the consolidation

22 of pre-K funding streams and increases in

23 this funding.

24 On Early College High Schools and

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1 Career and Technical Education, this is an

2 investment in both the economic future of our

3 state and our children, as 90 percent of CTE

4 students graduate with a Regents diploma.

5 New York State PTA fully supports expansion

6 of Early College High School programs. We

7 also support expansion for CTE and relevant

8 legislation, including the Nolan/Ritchie bill

9 amending the current aid formula for BOCES

10 CTE programs and supports for special

11 services aid.

12 And lastly, on the "whole child,"

13 which is not at the education table, we fully

14 support the proposal which requires

15 regulation of electronic cigarettes in the

16 same manner as tobacco products. We look

17 forward to working with the Legislature to

18 fully ban the marketing, advertising and sale

19 of electronic cigarettes to our children.

20 We also support the $30 million

21 increase to combat the heroin epidemic, and

22 recommend an additional $15 million over the

23 Executive Budget. As we all know, heroin and

24 prescription opiates continue to devastate

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1 families and communities.

2 In conclusion, we need to continue to

3 build on the success of our communities

4 through investments and support for our key

5 resources, our children. Every parent has a

6 dream for their child -- I know I have a

7 dream for Jackson -- and it's our job to be

8 dream-makers. We humbly ask that you

9 continue to infuse schools and families with

10 the tools and resources necessary to

11 accelerate the success of our children and

12 our families. Together we can make every

13 child's potential a reality, and there is no

14 other more important work.

15 Thank you so much.

16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN NOLAN: Thanks very

17 much. Very well said.

18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.

19 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: That's it.

20 MS. BELOKOPITSKY: Thank you so much.

21 CHAIRMAN FARRELL: Thank you. We are

22 finished until tomorrow at 9:30.

23 (Whereupon, the budget hearing concluded

24 at 5:39 p.m.)

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