Regular Session - March 18, 2021
1637
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
5
6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 March 18, 2021
11 11:10 a.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 SENATOR ROXANNE J. PERSAUD, Acting President
19 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
20
21
22
23
24
25
1638
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 Senate will come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: In the
9 absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a
10 moment of silent reflection or prayer.
11 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected
12 a moment of silence.)
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Reading
14 of the Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Wednesday, March 17, 2021, the Senate met
17 pursuant to adjournment. The Journal of Tuesday,
18 March 16, 2021, was read and approved. On
19 motion, Senate adjourned.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Without
21 objection, the Journal stands approved as read.
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
24 The Secretary will read.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Salazar
1639
1 moves to discharge, from the Committee on Rules,
2 Assembly Bill Number 2277A and substitute it for
3 the identical Senate Bill 2836, Third Reading
4 Calendar 555.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6 substitution is so ordered.
7 Messages from the Governor.
8 Reports of standing committees.
9 Reports of select committees.
10 Communications and reports from
11 state officers.
12 Motions and resolutions.
13 Senator Gianaris.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
15 Madam President.
16 Amendments are offered to the
17 following Third Reading Calendar bills:
18 Senator Hoylman's bill, page 23,
19 Calendar 409, Senate 1957;
20 And Senator Kaplan, page 34,
21 Calendar 597, Senate 5669.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 amendments are received, and the bills shall
24 retain their place on the Third Reading Calendar.
25 Senator Gianaris.
1640
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Please take up
2 the reading of the calendar at this time.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 153, Senate Print 1378A, by Senator Brooks, an
7 act to amend the Real Property Tax Law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
9 last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
11 act shall take effect on the second day of
12 January.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
17 the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
20 is passed.
21 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
22 203, Senate Print 161, by Senator Gounardes,
23 Concurrent Resolution of the Senate and Assembly
24 proposing an amendment to Section 6 of Article 5
25 of the Constitution.
1641
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
2 last section.
3 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
4 act shall take effect immediately.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
6 roll.
7 (The Secretary called the roll.)
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
9 the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 55.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
12 is passed.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 205, Senate Print 436, by Senator Kaminsky, an
15 act to amend the Civil Practice Law and Rules.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
17 last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 4. This
19 act shall take effect on the first of November.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
21 roll.
22 (The Secretary called the roll.)
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
24 the results.
25 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
1642
1 Calendar 205, those Senators voting in the
2 negative are Senators Borrello, Gallivan, Griffo,
3 Helming, O'Mara, Ortt, Rath, Serino and Tedisco.
4 Ayes, 54. Nays, 9.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
6 is passed.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 435, Senate Print 1646, by Senator Skoufis, an
9 act to amend the General Municipal Law.
10 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Lay it
12 aside.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 437, Senate Print 409, by Senator Biaggi, an act
15 to amend the Mental Hygiene Law.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
17 last section.
18 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
19 act shall take effect on the 180th day after it
20 shall have become a law.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
22 roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
25 the results.
1643
1 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
3 is passed.
4 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
5 448, Senate Print 4700, by Senator Gaughran, an
6 act authorizing the Village of Upper Brookville
7 to retroactively apply for a real property tax
8 exemption.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
10 last section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
14 roll.
15 (The Secretary called the roll.)
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
17 the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
19 Calendar 448, those Senators voting in the
20 negative are Senators Akshar, O'Mara and Skoufis.
21 Ayes, 60. Nays, 3.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 507, Senate Print 4207, by Senator Addabbo, an
1644
1 act to amend the Mental Hygiene Law and the
2 Racing, Pari-Mutuel Wagering and Breeding Law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
4 last section.
5 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
6 act shall take effect on the 60th day after it
7 shall have become a law.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
9 roll.
10 (The Secretary called the roll.)
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
12 the results.
13 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
15 is passed.
16 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
17 518, Senate Print 2969, by Senator Harckham, an
18 act to amend the Tax Law.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
20 last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
22 act shall take effect July 1, 2021.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
24 roll.
25 (The Secretary called the roll.)
1645
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
2 the results.
3 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
4 Calendar 518, those Senators voting in the
5 negative are Senators Akshar and O'Mara.
6 Ayes, 61. Nays, 2.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
8 is passed.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 521, Senate Print 4670, by Senator Parker, an act
11 to amend the Tax Law.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Read the
13 last section.
14 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
15 act shall take effect immediately.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
17 roll.
18 (The Secretary called the roll.)
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
20 the results.
21 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
23 is passed.
24 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
25 555, Assembly Print Number 2277A, substituted
1646
1 earlier by Assemblymember Aubry, an act to amend
2 the Correction Law.
3 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Lay it
5 aside.
6 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
7 reading of today's calendar.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we now go to
9 the reading of the controversial calendar,
10 please.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 Secretary will ring the bell.
13 The Secretary will read.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 435, Senate Print 1646, by Senator Skoufis, an
16 act to amend the General Municipal Law.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
18 Lanza, why do you rise?
19 SENATOR LANZA: Madam President, I
20 believe there's an amendment at the desk. I
21 waive the reading of that amendment and ask that
22 you recognize Senator Borrello to be heard.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
24 you, Senator Lanza.
25 Upon review of the amendment, in
1647
1 accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it
2 nongermane and out of order at this time.
3 SENATOR LANZA: Accordingly,
4 Madam President, I appeal the ruling of the chair
5 and ask that Senator Borrello be recognized.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
7 appeal has been made and recognized, and
8 Senator Borrello may be heard.
9 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
10 Madam President.
11 I believe this amendment is germane
12 because this particular bill deals with how VFWs
13 and other organizations -- American Legion
14 posts -- have been harmed by the Governor's
15 erratic and unscientific executive orders.
16 Therefore, this bill is there to try and help
17 those folks offset some of those losses caused by
18 the Governor's unscientific way of handling these
19 lockdowns.
20 More importantly, we are seeing
21 now -- here we are, Day 13 since the Governor's
22 powers were supposedly revoked. It kind of
23 reminds me when I was a kid hearing about the
24 American hostages in Iran, how many days each day
25 that they were held hostage in Iran.
1648
1 Well, here we are, it's Day 13,
2 still being held hostage by powers that were
3 allegedly revoked nearly two weeks ago.
4 But not only does it appear that
5 these powers still exist, but the Governor seems
6 to be emboldened by them. As recently as
7 yesterday we saw the Governor say, Well, we're
8 going to let some people, you know, go past the
9 11 p.m. curfew, and the others, well, we'll see.
10 He is clearly still using these
11 powers to not only, you know, continue his
12 lockdown and harm our economy but to create
13 basically a diversion from the mounting scandals
14 that we have seen.
15 In order to really remedy this, this
16 amendment needs to be taken up. We need to vote
17 on it and pass it to truly strip the Governor of
18 that executive authority.
19 So what else can we do now except
20 notice that right now the only changes that have
21 happened in the last 13 days are the ones that
22 the Governor himself has brought forth. That's
23 why this amendment is not only germane but it's
24 critical that it passes here today so that this
25 Legislature can return to its constitutional
1649
1 obligation to be a separate, coequal branch of
2 government.
3 So, Madam President, I respectfully
4 ask that you find this amendment to be germane
5 and pass it today. Thank you.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Thank
7 you, Senator.
8 I want to remind the house that the
9 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
10 ruling of the chair.
11 Those in favor of overruling the
12 chair please signify by saying aye.
13 SENATOR LANZA: Request a show of
14 hands.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
16 we have once again agreed to waive the showing of
17 hands and record each member of the Minority in
18 the affirmative.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Without
20 objection, so ordered.
21 Announce the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 20.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
24 is passed. No. No, sorry. Sorry.
25 (Laughter.)
1650
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Sorry.
2 The ruling of the chair stands and the
3 bill-in-chief is before the house.
4 Are there any other Senators wishing
5 to be heard?
6 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
7 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
8 Read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
12 roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Announce
15 the results.
16 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
18 is passed.
19 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
20 555, Assembly Print Number 2277A, by
21 Assemblymember Aubry, an act to amend the
22 Correction Law.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:
24 Senator Akshar.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
1651
1 if you'd just give me one second, please.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Sure.
3 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
4 thank you. Through you, if the sponsor would
5 yield for a few questions.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
10 sponsor will yield.
11 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you,
12 Madam President.
13 My question, through you,
14 Madam President, is do the terms "solitary
15 confinement" and "special housing unit" mean the
16 same thing to the sponsor?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
18 Madam President, I'm not sure how Senator Akshar
19 defines "special housing unit." So if you could
20 clarify, that would be helpful.
21 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
22 through you, if the sponsor would give me a
23 definition of a special housing unit, in her
24 mind, and solitary confinement, in her mind as
25 well.
1652
1 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
2 Madam President. The special housing unit, or
3 SHU, is one form of solitary confinement that is
4 used in DOCCS facilities. Typically it means
5 being confined to a small space about the size of
6 an elevator for 22 to 24 hours a day, given no
7 meaningful interaction with other people.
8 Currently, under the law, there is
9 not a limit to how long someone can be confined
10 in SHU. It could be for months, years, and in
11 some cases even decades.
12 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
13 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: Could the sponsor
21 give me an example of someone who has languished
22 in a special housing unit for years or even
23 decades?
24 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
25 Madam President, there are about 4,000 people in
1653
1 segregated confinement in prisoners and jails
2 across New York State, including numerous people
3 who are being held in SHU right now.
4 For just one example, I recently
5 visited Fishkill Correctional Facility in the
6 Hudson Valley. While I was there, I visited SHU
7 200, where several men were being held in
8 solitary. I don't feel that I need to name them,
9 but I personally witnessed men being held in
10 solitary confinement in SHU.
11 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
12 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
13 yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR AKSHAR: The sponsor just
20 used the number 4,000, she was aware of
21 4,000 inmates who are currently being held in
22 special housing units. Is that what I heard?
23 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
24 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
25 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
1654
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR AKSHAR: Where does the
8 sponsor get that number of 4,000 from?
9 SENATOR SALAZAR: Well, first, you
10 know, this is approximately 4,000 people who are
11 being held right now. We know, for example, in
12 2019, through a report that was issued by the
13 NYCLU that in that year alone, more than 38,000
14 people were sent to solitary confinement in
15 facilities across the State of New York.
16 Additionally, DOCCS actually on a
17 monthly basis reports -- while the data is
18 limited, they do report the number of people who
19 are being held in SHU on their website on a
20 monthly basis.
21 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
22 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
25 sponsor yield?
1655
1 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR AKSHAR: The sponsor made
5 reference to, I think, NYCLU. And I'm sorry, it
6 was year -- what year? It was two thousand
7 and -- I'm sorry, what --
8 SENATOR SALAZAR: Nineteen. 2019.
9 SENATOR AKSHAR: Okay. The
10 question is in 2019 -- I just want to make sure I
11 understand this, Senator Salazar. In 2019 it is
12 your assertion that some 31,000 people were sent
13 to a special housing unit?
14 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
15 Madam President. It was more than 38,000 people
16 who were sent to solitary confinement.
17 And we don't know, you know, the --
18 which types of solitary confinement. We know
19 that that included SHU, but there are additional
20 forms of solitary confinement that some of those
21 38,000 people were likely sent to instead.
22 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
23 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1656
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: Two questions, if
6 I may. The first, in 2019, again, some 38,000
7 people were sent to -- the sponsor is
8 asserting -- were sent to solitary confinement,
9 as she describes. What was the total prison
10 population during that period of time?
11 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
12 Madam President, I don't have the exact number of
13 how many people were incarcerated in the state in
14 2019 readily available to me.
15 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
16 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: Does the sponsor
24 know how many people are currently incarcerated
25 today in the state prison system?
1657
1 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
2 Madam President. Today, in March of 2021, I'm
3 told that there are approximately 31,000 people
4 who are in DOCCS facilities across the state.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
6 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR AKSHAR: Would the sponsor
14 be so kind to look over her shoulder and ask her
15 counsel how many people were incarcerated in 2019
16 in state correctional facilities?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
18 Madam President. I think that what the Senator
19 is asking is about the number of people who were
20 at any point in 2019 held in solitary
21 confinement, versus the total number of people
22 who were in DOCCS facilities in 2019.
23 And so I want to be very clear that
24 in the report that the NYCLU issued in 2019, they
25 were referring to the number of times that people
1658
1 were sent to solitary confinement. Some of those
2 people were likely sent to solitary more than
3 once, and so that number of more than
4 38,000 times when people were sent to solitary
5 confinement could include some of the people
6 multiple times, and in fact it almost certainly
7 did.
8 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
9 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: That was the
17 point -- it was the point that I was trying to
18 make, Senator Salazar.
19 So this is -- we're talking now in
20 terms of numbers, but it's your assertion that
21 these were instances of people going to solitary
22 confinement, based on what the NYCLU report said,
23 not necessarily 38,000 separate state prisoners
24 going to special housing units.
25 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
1659
1 Madam President, that is correct.
2 But this is separate from the fact
3 that we know there are approximately, right now,
4 4,000 people in segregated confinement in prisons
5 and jails across New York State.
6 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President.
7 Through you, if the sponsor will continue to
8 yield.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
10 sponsor yield?
11 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
13 sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR AKSHAR: The sponsor made
15 mention of several different types of solitary
16 confinement. Would the sponsor be so kind to
17 educate me on the different types of solitary
18 confinement within the state prison system?
19 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
20 Madam President, this includes SHU, the special
21 housing unit. Ad seg. It includes keeplock in
22 your own cell, where you can be held for the same
23 period of time, up to -- well, under HALT, it
24 would be up to 17 hours a day. Currently there
25 is not a limit on how long someone can be held in
1660
1 solitary confinement.
2 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
3 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR AKSHAR: Why would one find
11 themselves in administrative segregation or in a
12 keeplock situation?
13 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
14 Madam President, it is really at DOCCS'
15 discretion right now. We know of instances
16 where, of course, someone may be disciplined
17 through the use of solitary confinement for
18 committing a violent act.
19 But additionally, people can be sent
20 to solitary confinement for virtually any reason,
21 for very minor infractions, such as putting up a
22 photo of their family in their cell without
23 permission. You know, not putting their tray
24 away properly. These sort of minor infractions
25 can also have someone sent to solitary
1661
1 confinement.
2 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
3 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
4 yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you,
11 Madam President.
12 Where is solitary confinement
13 defined? Where could I look to get that
14 definition?
15 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
16 Madam President. There are competing definitions
17 for what constitutes solitary confinement.
18 We define it as forms of segregated
19 confinement where the person is separated from
20 the general population, is held in isolation.
21 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
22 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
25 sponsor yield?
1662
1 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR AKSHAR: Who is "we"? "We
5 define it as," who is we? I'm sorry.
6 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
7 Madam President. In the bill, at the very
8 beginning of the bill, it states that segregated
9 confinement means the confinement of an inmate
10 and says any form of cell confinement for more
11 than 17 hours a day, other than in a
12 facility-wide emergency, of course, or for the
13 purpose of providing medical or mental health
14 treatment.
15 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
16 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: Let me ask the
24 question a different way.
25 Prior to authoring the statute, how
1663
1 was solitary confinement defined? Because much
2 of this bill -- and I'm going to get to my
3 question in just a moment -- much of this bill is
4 being driven by this terminology, doing away with
5 solitary confinement. So I'm curious to know,
6 prior to this bill being authored, how was
7 solitary confinement defined?
8 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
9 Madam President, I would argue that solitary
10 confinement was not clearly defined before this
11 bill was introduced.
12 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
13 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: I wonder if the
21 sponsor would be so kind just to walk me through
22 the history of this HALT legislation.
23 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
24 Madam President. Before this bill was
25 introduced, there was a settlement agreement in
1664
1 2014. This bill was introduced to encompass some
2 of the provisions of the settlement agreement, as
3 well as to expand and to codify the provisions of
4 the settlement.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
6 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR AKSHAR: The sponsor is
14 familiar with The People v. Annucci? I think
15 that's what she's describing in terms of the
16 settlement. Is that accurate?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
18 SENATOR AKSHAR: If the sponsor
19 would continue to yield, Madam President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: And what
1665
1 specifically came of that class action lawsuit by
2 NYCLU in regards to The People v. Annucci?
3 SENATOR SALAZAR: So through you,
4 Madam President, the NYCLU settlement resulted in
5 the implementation of policies which minimized
6 the use and duration of confinement in SHUs
7 specifically, although not in other forms of
8 solitary confinement.
9 It created sanction guidelines,
10 ended the use of solitary only on juveniles, it
11 instituted a presumption against solitary for
12 pregnant people who are incarcerated, and
13 provided for alternative placement for people
14 with cognitive impairment.
15 However, the settlement agreement of
16 course did not enact into statute laws to
17 incorporate its provisions.
18 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
19 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
25 sponsor yields.
1666
1 SENATOR AKSHAR: At the time NYCLU
2 said of the settlement that it was a
3 comprehensive overhaul of the system.
4 Does the sponsor agree with that
5 assertion?
6 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
7 Madam President, I do not believe that the
8 settlement was a comprehensive overhaul.
9 I do believe that it made some
10 progress, but the reason that we are voting on
11 this bill today and why I support this bill
12 becoming law is because I think that this is
13 actually what is necessary in order to address
14 the very serious problems with the use of
15 solitary confinement in New York.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
17 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
18 yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR AKSHAR: An inmate that
25 finds themselves in a special housing unit or a
1667
1 SHU, do you consider them to be in solitary
2 confinement?
3 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
4 Madam President. Yes, I do.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
6 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR AKSHAR: Do those
14 individuals have human contact?
15 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
16 Madam President, someone who is held in SHU does
17 have minimal human contact, although under
18 current law, prior to the passage of this bill --
19 under current law someone can be held in SHU for
20 up to 23 hours a day, more than 17 hours a day,
21 and without any meaningful human contact.
22 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
23 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1668
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: Are they able to
6 have their property?
7 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
8 Madam President. It is actually at the
9 discretion of DOCCS whether or not someone who is
10 held in SHU can have their property. They are
11 not required to give them their property while
12 they are held in solitary confinement.
13 SENATOR AKSHAR: Are they allowed
14 to have --
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
16 Akshar, are you asking the sponsor to yield?
17 SENATOR AKSHAR: I am,
18 Madam President.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR AKSHAR: In the interests
25 of time, I'm just going to ask about several
1669
1 things that inmates are allowed to have, and
2 maybe I could just get a yes or a no or we could
3 discuss them individually.
4 Personal visits, legal visits,
5 radios, televisions, commissary privileges, the
6 same meals as inmates in general population,
7 playing cards, books, photographs, tablets,
8 religious material, mental health assessments,
9 packages, mail, legal mail, daily medical sick
10 calls and emergency sick calls, general library
11 services and the law library services, amongst
12 others. Do people in a special housing unit have
13 access to those things?
14 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
15 Madam President, these are privileges that
16 someone who is held in SHU or solitary
17 confinement could have access to, but it is at
18 the discretion of DOCCS.
19 Any of these privileges, under
20 current law, can be taken away from someone, they
21 can be held without access to these privileges.
22 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
23 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
24 yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1670
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you,
6 Madam President. I'm having a difficult time
7 making the delineation between a special housing
8 unit and solitary confinement. So could the
9 sponsor just help me through this issue?
10 I am calling the folks that find
11 themselves to be, with poor behavior,
12 incorrigible, who find themselves in this
13 situation in a special housing unit, keeplock or
14 ad seg -- how does that differ from what the
15 sponsor is describing as solitary confinement?
16 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
17 Madam President, it is not. All of these are
18 forms of what I would consider to be and what the
19 bill treats as solitary confinement.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you.
21 Madam President, if the sponsor
22 would continue to yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
1671
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR AKSHAR: How does the
4 current law address these issues surrounding
5 special housing units?
6 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
7 Madam President, I -- I'm a little unclear on
8 which issues Senator Akshar is referring to.
9 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
10 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Will the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR AKSHAR: Let me try it a
18 different way.
19 It's my understanding that there was
20 an agreement last year between the Governor and
21 the Legislature in reference to dealing with
22 inmates, both in state facilities and county
23 facilities, who find themselves residing in a
24 special housing unit, ad seg, keeplock.
25 How does that agreement of 2019
1672
1 differ from what we're currently doing by way of
2 the bill-in-chief?
3 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
4 Madam President. The agreement and the
5 regulations that were adopted when the agreement
6 was reached in 2019 do include some of the key
7 points outlined in this bill, but they are not
8 statutory mandates.
9 They fall short in many areas, one
10 of which -- one difference between the regulatory
11 agreement and this bill is that this bill clearly
12 defines segregated confinement, also regulates
13 and prevents the prolonged use of solitary
14 confinement in keeplock and one's cell in
15 administrative segregation or protective custody.
16 It also is necessary to prevent
17 alternatives to SHU from becoming the new
18 prolonged solitary confinement.
19 Additionally, this bill specifically
20 includes special populations and expands that
21 definition to include people up to 21 years of
22 age or over the age of 55, in order to further
23 protect vulnerable populations that were not
24 protected by the regulations.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
1673
1 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR AKSHAR: In reference to
9 the agreement that was reached in 2019, who was
10 part and parcel to that discussion? And how did
11 you all arrive at the parameters of that
12 agreement?
13 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
14 Madam President, it was based on a proposal from
15 the Executive and negotiations between the
16 Executive and the two houses of the Legislature.
17 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
18 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
19 yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: These were
1674
1 regulations, not laws, is that correct?
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
3 Madam President. Yes, that is correct.
4 SENATOR AKSHAR: If the sponsor
5 will continue to yield, Madam President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR AKSHAR: Were those
12 regulations crafted by those who would be
13 considered experts in the field of corrections
14 who understand the complexities of running
15 facilities like jails or prisons? Or were they
16 created by bureaucrats in Albany?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
18 Madam President. These regulations were not
19 created, these regulations -- you know, I --
20 first of all, I was not directly involved in the
21 process of creating these regulations. They were
22 informed by a number of things.
23 But most importantly, those
24 regulations are not actually the basis of what we
25 are doing today. What we are doing today and
1675
1 what is outlined in the HALT solitary confinement
2 bill is based on research. We have data. There
3 is well-documented information about the impacts
4 and the negative impacts of the long-term use of
5 solitary confinement. And that is the basis for
6 the changes in this bill.
7 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
8 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
9 yield.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
11 sponsor yield?
12 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
14 sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR AKSHAR: Just based off of
16 something that you just said. So the question
17 is, who did you in fact consult with in regards
18 to authorizing this legislation?
19 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
20 Madam President, those who authored this
21 legislation consulted with people who do have
22 experience working within the system of mass
23 incarceration.
24 They consulted with -- and I
25 consulted with, as the sponsor of this bill --
1676
1 many people who have been directly impacted by
2 the use of solitary confinement, as well as what
3 you could call stakeholders, people who work in
4 correctional facilities in New York.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
6 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR AKSHAR: Does the sponsor
14 care just to share who some of those people who
15 work in correctional facilities were that she
16 spoke to?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
18 Madam President, this included speaking to
19 corrections officers about the bill.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
21 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
22 yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
1677
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR AKSHAR: I just want to
4 make sure I understand the last point.
5 So you sought the advice of members
6 of NYSCOPBA in authoring this legislation in
7 terms of, you know, arriving at whatever language
8 it is that we're discussing today?
9 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
10 Madam President, I did not personally draft this
11 legislation. I'm the sponsor of this
12 legislation, but this legislation precedes me and
13 my time in the Senate.
14 But I do know for a fact that I met
15 with corrections officers, with union
16 representatives, I met with people who work for
17 DOCCS, and I spoke to DOCCS about this bill.
18 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
19 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
20 yield.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
22 sponsor yield?
23 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
25 sponsor yields.
1678
1 SENATOR AKSHAR: In reference
2 specifically to the folks who are working within
3 the confines of correctional facilities that you
4 have spoken to, are they in favor or support of
5 this language?
6 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
7 Madam President. No, they are not.
8 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
9 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: In state
17 correctional facilities there are what is known
18 as inmate liaisons. Have you spoken to any
19 inmate liaisons in reference to this language?
20 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
21 Madam President, I have not personally spoken to
22 inmate liaisons about the content of this bill,
23 although I have spoken to many people who have
24 either experienced solitary confinement firsthand
25 or whose family members have, as well as the
1679
1 families of people who have died in solitary
2 confinement in our state. Many people who have
3 been directly impacted by the use of solitary
4 confinement.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
6 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR AKSHAR: How many people
14 have died while in solitary confinement in the
15 last decade?
16 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
17 Madam President, we don't have the number of
18 people who have died in solitary confinement in
19 the past decade readily available to us.
20 I would argue, however, that even
21 one person dying while held in solitary
22 confinement for preventable causes is too many.
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: For the record, I
24 would agree with the sponsor.
25 If the sponsor would be so kind to
1680
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR AKSHAR: Senator, I think
8 you may have mentioned this. And obviously you
9 and I have had this discussion about you
10 traveling the state visiting correctional
11 facilities.
12 Have you had the opportunity to
13 visit a SHU?
14 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
15 Madam President. Yes, I did have the opportunity
16 to visit SHU as recently as last month.
17 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
18 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
19 yield.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
21 sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
24 sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: What was the
1681
1 sponsor's overall perception of that visit, the
2 conditions? If the sponsor would be so kind, if
3 she would just share what it was that she
4 observed or witnessed while she was there.
5 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
6 Madam President. While I was visiting -- most
7 recently, when visiting Fishkill Correctional
8 Facility, I did go to the SHU. I saw several men
9 who were being held in solitary confinement
10 there. I spoke to them.
11 One of them, for example, was very
12 distressed. He had been held in there for longer
13 than 15 days, and that was actually confirmed to
14 me by corrections officers. He also mentioned
15 that he didn't have his property with him.
16 I also had the opportunity, while
17 there, to go into one of the cells in the special
18 housing unit and see the size, that it's a small
19 cell, and also see the very small space that is
20 used for people who are being held in SHU to have
21 some time -- some out-of-cell time while they're
22 in SHU. And it is roughly the size of a fire
23 escape.
24 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
25 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
1682
1 yield.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR AKSHAR: In the discussion
8 with that particular inmate who was being held
9 longer than 15 days and did not have his -- I'm
10 assuming "him." If I'm wrong, just let me know.
11 If you care to elaborate, did he
12 fill you in as to why he found himself in a
13 special housing unit in the first place and why
14 he did not have his property?
15 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
16 Madam President. While I did speak to the man
17 who was incarcerated, I also spoke to corrections
18 officers who were there with us, and they
19 confirmed for me that actually in this particular
20 case, the man was being held because he had not
21 taken a COVID test and he had been exposed to
22 COVID-19.
23 Typically, that means that someone
24 would only be quarantined for two weeks. In this
25 case, the reason that he was held longer was
1683
1 because apparently during his brief out-of-cell
2 time at the end of that 14 days of quarantine
3 period, he was exposed again.
4 He still didn't test positive for
5 COVID-19. He wasn't tested, but he was returned
6 immediately that same day to SHU. And so it
7 essentially restarted the clock on his time in
8 SHU.
9 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
10 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
11 yield.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
15 SENATOR AKSHAR: So in this --
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 sponsor -- the sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR AKSHAR: I'm sorry,
19 Madam President.
20 So in this particular instance this
21 inmate was not being held in a special housing
22 unit for behavioral issues, he was being housed
23 because of COVID-related issues?
24 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
25 Madam President. It's possible that originally
1684
1 he was held for disciplinary reasons. I cannot
2 confirm that.
3 I do know that people are currently
4 being held in SHU not only for disciplinary
5 reasons, but also for the purpose of public
6 health, of trying to manage the spread of
7 COVID-19 in correctional facilities.
8 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
9 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: Two parts. What
17 were the lighting conditions like when you were
18 in the special housing unit? And did you witness
19 any interactions between the inmates and someone
20 providing service, mental health, substance use
21 disorder, whatever it may be, or any interactions
22 between those inmates and corrections officers?
23 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
24 Madam President, I did not get to witness
25 those -- any of the incarcerated people engaging
1685
1 in programming at all during my visit. I was at
2 Fishkill for about four hours, and there was not
3 any programming that I could see available to the
4 people held in SHU during that time.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
6 through you, if the sponsor would yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR AKSHAR: Do those inmates
13 who find themselves in a special housing unit,
14 are they afforded an opportunity to get some of
15 those services that you and I are discussing?
16 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
17 Madam President. Currently they are not
18 required, under the law, to be provided with
19 access to the programs that are available to the
20 general population in DOCCS facilities.
21 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
22 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
25 sponsor yield?
1686
1 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you,
5 Madam President.
6 What about the agreement that was
7 reached between the Governor and the Legislature?
8 Are they afforded an opportunity to have access
9 to those services?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
11 Madam President. Under the regulations,
12 out-of-cell time, including programming, is still
13 at the discretion of DOCCS. As opposed to in
14 this bill, where the access to out-of-cell
15 programming is required.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
17 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
18 yield.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Madam President,
20 briefly.
21 Please allow Senator Akshar to
22 continue, but I do want to point out to him that
23 his 30-minute limit has passed, but we're happy
24 to allow him to continue on the debate.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you,
1687
1 Senator Gianaris.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
8 through you. I just want to discuss, in
9 reference to the bill-in-chief, the age
10 requirements or the special category of people
11 who will no longer be able to go into a special
12 housing unit.
13 If you'd be so kind, how did we
14 arrive at those ages, 21 and 55, respectively?
15 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
16 Madam President. It is well documented that
17 people in these age groups, young people 21 years
18 of age or younger, people who are 55 years of age
19 or older, are particularly vulnerable to the
20 detrimental impacts of long-term solitary
21 confinement.
22 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you,
23 Madam President. If the sponsor would continue
24 to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1688
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: Could we agree
6 that those under 21 years of age or younger or
7 55 years of age or older are still capable of
8 creating chaos and wreaking havoc within the
9 confines of a correctional facility?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
11 Madam President. Yes, certainly.
12 This bill does not assume that
13 people in the special populations, even including
14 pregnant people who are included in the special
15 populations under this bill, are incapable of
16 committing violence or doing something that would
17 require separation from the general population.
18 Under this bill they would still be
19 able to be separated from the general population,
20 they just would not be able to -- would not be
21 held in the isolation that comes with solitary
22 confinement in the SHU.
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: If the sponsor
24 would continue to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1689
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR AKSHAR: In regard to this
6 particular point, if you'd just describe what
7 would happen to someone if they were 20 years old
8 and committed an offense that is captured within
9 Part K of the statute.
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
11 Madam President. They would be separated from
12 the general population. They would be sent to
13 what is referred to as RRU, a residential
14 rehabilitation unit, and it would be used for
15 therapy, treatment, rehabilitative programming
16 that would be available to them.
17 And they also would be required to
18 have out-of-cell time that they wouldn't
19 otherwise have in SHU, seven hours total of
20 out-of-cell time per day.
21 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
22 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
23 yield.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
25 sponsor yield?
1690
1 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
3 sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR AKSHAR: Within this
5 statute, if one commits one of those offenses in
6 Part K and it is determined that he -- I'm just
7 going to use "he" in this instance, if you're
8 okay with that -- must be placed in a special
9 housing unit, for how long -- if I commit one of
10 those offenses and I'm sent to the SHU, for how
11 long can I go?
12 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
13 Madam President. Someone could be held in SHU
14 for up to 15 days if they are not included in the
15 special populations.
16 After that point, if they are held
17 for 15 days, they would then need to be put
18 instead in an RRU, if they were going to continue
19 to be separated from the general population.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
21 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
22 yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
1691
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR AKSHAR: So if my behavior
4 did not improve during those 15 days, under this
5 statute that we're debating today, it would be up
6 to the folks within the correctional facility to
7 determine whether I would go back to general
8 population or I would go to a residential
9 rehabilitation unit?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
11 Madam President, yes.
12 SENATOR AKSHAR: If -- Madam
13 President, through you, if the sponsor would
14 continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: If a determination
21 was made that I could go back to general
22 population, and then that very same day I
23 reoffended, what would happen? To me.
24 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
25 Madam President. At the discretion of DOCCS, the
1692
1 person could be separated once again,
2 immediately, from the general population and
3 could be put in an RRU.
4 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
5 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
6 yield.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR AKSHAR: So DOCCS has the
13 ability to send me back to the SHU after that
14 15-day period.
15 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
16 Madam President. Rather, the person would in
17 this particular case, because they had just spent
18 15 consecutive days in SHU, they would instead be
19 put in an RRU.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
21 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
22 yield.
23 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
24 sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
1693
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
2 sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR AKSHAR: So the longest
4 amount of time that I can spend in a special
5 housing unit, based on the language of this
6 statute, is no more than 15 days?
7 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
8 Madam President. Once you are returned to the
9 general population, you could potentially go back
10 to the SHU as long as you're not included in
11 these special populations and as long as it is
12 not determined that it is unsafe or to the
13 detriment of the person's health for them to
14 return to SHU.
15 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
16 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
17 yield.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: For how long?
24 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
25 Madam President. So up to 15 days is how long
1694
1 they could be held in SHU specifically.
2 However, after that 15 days, whether
3 this is the first time that they've been in SHU
4 or if they previously at some point had been held
5 in SHU, after 15 days they need to be transferred
6 either back to general population, if it's
7 appropriate, or to an RRU.
8 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
9 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
10 yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: I guess the point
17 I'm trying to make is, is there a time limit
18 within a specified time frame that an inmate can
19 go to a special housing unit?
20 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
21 Madam President. The bill I think is clear in
22 stating that the longest time that someone can be
23 held in a special housing unit is 15 days;
24 additionally, 20 days within a 60-day period.
25 But they also can potentially be
1695
1 held in an RRU, and there is not -- there is not
2 a hard limit on the amount of time that someone
3 could potentially be held in an RRU. It would
4 likely be up to a year, but even after spending a
5 year in the RRU, if DOCCS determined that someone
6 needed to -- for any, you know, serious reason,
7 or if they posed a threat to their own safety or
8 to the safety of someone else in the facility,
9 they could even continue to be held in RRU and,
10 at DOCCS' discretion, potentially have
11 restrictions imposed.
12 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
13 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
14 yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: So an inmate
21 cannot be placed in a special housing unit any
22 more than 20 days in a 60-day period.
23 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
24 Madam President, yes.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
1696
1 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
2 yield.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR AKSHAR: In this same
9 hypothetical, if I had met that 20-day period in
10 a 60-day time frame and it was the decision to
11 send me to an RRU, and I too was creating issues
12 within that residential rehabilitation unit, what
13 recourse does the Department of Corrections then
14 have, since I've met -- I can't be sent to a
15 special housing unit because I've already made
16 that 20-day time frame. I've not been able to
17 behave in a residential rehabilitation unit. So
18 what recourse do corrections officers and those
19 that run the facilities have then to deal with
20 me?
21 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
22 Madam President. There are still other means of
23 discipline that are available at the discretion
24 of DOCCS under this bill.
25 HALT -- you know, passing this bill
1697
1 would not prohibit these other means of
2 discipline. It could mean official reprimand,
3 imposition of work assignments, suspending
4 privileges, suspending visitation, loss of
5 commissary, withholding of packages -- all of
6 those things could still be used as a means of
7 discipline under this bill.
8 And additionally, safety precautions
9 can be taken if someone continues to be a threat
10 to the safety of themselves or others while they
11 were held in RRU.
12 SENATOR AKSHAR: Just on the bill
13 for just a moment.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:
15 Senator Akshar on the bill.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: While I respect
17 the position of my colleague, I think the point
18 I'm trying to make is that if someone was prone
19 to committing violent assaults or was a sexual
20 predator within the confines of a correctional
21 facility -- and they exist. They prey on the
22 weak. And we are limiting the amount of time
23 that we can put someone in a special housing
24 unit. I think actually we're doing a disservice
25 to the other people who find themselves
1698
1 incarcerated.
2 Would the sponsor continue to yield
3 for a question.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
5 sponsor yield?
6 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
8 sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR AKSHAR: If we could look
10 at page 5 of the bill, lines 31 and 32, it says
11 specifically -- and I'll read it, if that's okay,
12 while you're looking for it. "The department
13 shall not impose restricted diets or any other
14 change in diet as a form of punishment."
15 Is it the sponsor's assertion that
16 this is currently taking place?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
18 Madam President. The purpose of including this
19 is to ensure -- to codify the position that it
20 will not take place, that someone will not be
21 punished through changes in their diet, including
22 depriving them of food.
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
24 through you. I'm just going to ask just a couple
25 more questions, if that would be okay.
1699
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR AKSHAR: I just have a
7 question specifically about the evidentiary
8 hearings. Can the sponsor just walk me through
9 that process when those evidentiary hearings take
10 place?
11 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
12 Madam President. Under this bill, if someone --
13 someone could be held in keeplock immediately for
14 up to 48 hours.
15 But before being placed in SHU, they
16 would need to have a due process hearing, a
17 discipline hearing, in order to determine whether
18 or not it's justified to place them in SHU.
19 SENATOR AKSHAR: Two last
20 questions, if the sponsor would be so kind to
21 yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
1700
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR AKSHAR: Page 8, lines 43
3 through 46 talk specifically about the training
4 that is associated with this particular statute.
5 Who is going to be developing that training? You
6 know, who's setting the curriculum? And who will
7 be teaching that?
8 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
9 Madam President, DOCCS will.
10 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you.
11 And, Madam President, if the sponsor
12 will continue to yield.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
14 sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
16 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
17 sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR AKSHAR: Page 9, lines 9
19 through 18, I just want to talk about this for
20 just a moment.
21 In the second sentence, it's talking
22 about de-escalation, intervention, informational
23 reports shall be the preferred methods of
24 responding to misbehavior.
25 So do those within a correctional
1701
1 facility still have the discretion -- can they
2 use their discretion in terms of trying to figure
3 out what is best for the safety of not only the
4 other inmates, but the inmate in question, or the
5 facility, the corrections officers, so on and so
6 forth?
7 Does this section of the law still
8 allow for discretion?
9 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
10 Madam President. Yes, this section of the bill
11 does still allow for DOCCS to use discretion in
12 determining whether someone needs to be --
13 continue to be separated and whether they are
14 held in SHU or transferred to RRU.
15 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
16 on the bill.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:
18 Senator Akshar on the bill.
19 SENATOR AKSHAR: I want to thank
20 Senator Salazar for taking some time and her
21 indulgence in answering my questions. I think it
22 was a spirited debate.
23 Many of you know that in my previous
24 employ I was a member of law enforcement. I
25 guess I had the unfortunate opportunity of seeing
1702
1 the commission of crime and the havoc that that
2 crime has, you know, created for so many people.
3 My opposition to this bill -- you
4 know, I think this is important for me to say,
5 Madam President -- is not for a lack of
6 compassion. It is not because I do not believe
7 in rehabilitation or this issue of reentry.
8 To the contrary, I agree with it
9 very much. And I think, you know, regardless of
10 our politics, at the end of the day it should be
11 the collective wisdom of this body to reduce
12 recidivism to the greatest extent that we
13 possibly can.
14 This bill, for me -- you know, it
15 seems dangerous that we would handcuff, no pun
16 intended, the men and women who are working
17 within the confines of correctional facilities
18 and taking discretion away from them.
19 I mean, we heard today that
20 regardless of what it is that I do while
21 incarcerated, regardless of how incorrigible I am
22 or how much havoc I create, the most that the
23 facility can do is put me in a special housing
24 unit for no more than 20 days within a 60-day
25 period.
1703
1 I actually am in favor of these
2 residential rehabilitation units. I think they
3 have the potential of serving a great purpose.
4 And at the end of the day, for me, again, this is
5 not about not caring or not being compassionate.
6 I'm just trying to look at things pragmatically
7 and be measured and ensure that we are balancing
8 the needs of people who find themselves
9 incarcerated but we're also balancing the needs
10 of others, including our corrections officers,
11 who have a thankless job.
12 And I think one point, one last
13 point I will make is that I think this issue of
14 solitary confinement has really been
15 sensationalized. Or some would have the general
16 public believe that a special housing unit is
17 like what Andy Dufresne was sent to in "The
18 Shawshank Redemption." And that's not
19 necessarily the case.
20 The sponsor has had an opportunity
21 to tour Fishkill. I've had an opportunity to
22 tour Southport and witness for myself what that
23 facility was like. And it is the furthest thing
24 from what we have seen in Hollywood-produced
25 movies.
1704
1 So it is for those reasons and
2 others that I cannot and will not in good
3 conscience, when it comes time to vote, be able
4 to support this bill.
5 Madam President, again, I thank you
6 for your indulgence. And my thanks again to
7 Senator Salazar.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
9 Stec.
10 SENATOR STEC: Good morning,
11 Madam President. Will the sponsor yield, please.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
13 sponsor yield?
14 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
16 sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
18 Madam President. Thank you, Senator.
19 Do you personally -- in your prior
20 experience before becoming a Senator, do you have
21 professional experience working in corrections,
22 either in a corrections facility or with, you
23 know, other groups that are directly involved in
24 our corrections process?
25 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
1705
1 Madam President, I did not previously work in
2 corrections before becoming a Senator.
3 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. Again,
4 if the sponsor would yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR STEC: Thank you, Senator.
11 Generally speaking, today, if you
12 could describe your understanding of what the
13 situation would be and the process would be for
14 somebody that's in general population to find
15 themselves relocated to a special housing unit.
16 What would they have to do, and what's the
17 process?
18 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
19 Madam President. Under the current law, someone
20 can be placed in a special housing unit in SHU
21 for -- at the discretion of DOCCS.
22 And they can be placed for a number
23 of reasons ranging from a very minor infraction,
24 what I think any of us would consider to be a
25 very minor infraction that doesn't impact other
1706
1 people in the facility, to more serious
2 infractions such as, you know, assaulting an
3 officer or being involved in violence.
4 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, if
5 the sponsor will continue to yield.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
7 sponsor yield?
8 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
10 sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR STEC: You said assigned by
12 DOCCS. I mean, a correction officer on the block
13 decides, I've had it with this guy, I'm putting
14 him in SHU, or -- if you could elaborate on your
15 understanding of the process.
16 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
17 Madam President. Under current law, someone can
18 be sent to SHU at the discretion of the people in
19 the facility, of the corrections officer. They
20 can be sent to SHU and they do not need to have a
21 disciplinary hearing, as would be required under
22 this bill. Under current law, they're not
23 required to have a disciplinary in the 15 days
24 that they could potentially be held in SHU.
25 SENATOR STEC: If the sponsor would
1707
1 continue to yield, Madam President.
2 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
3 sponsor yield?
4 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
6 sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
8 Senator, so just so I'm clear, are
9 you saying that right now, for an incident either
10 of little severity or significant severity, an
11 individual correctional officer could say, I'm
12 relocating you to a special housing unit, and
13 that's the end of it, that there's no hearing at
14 all, there's no hearing officer that is involved
15 at all in any of our facilities?
16 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
17 Madam President. Currently it is at the CO's
18 discretion whether or not someone can be sent to
19 SHU as a means of discipline.
20 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, if
21 the sponsor would continue to yield.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
23 sponsor yield?
24 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
1708
1 sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR STEC: I apologize. I'm
3 Not trying to be difficult. So you're saying
4 that an incident happens and an individual
5 corrections officer, brand-new on the job, can
6 say, I've had it, this guy's going to go to the
7 special housing unit, and he could be there for
8 15 or 20 days? All by himself, one corrections
9 officer?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
11 Madam President, COs are hypothetically following
12 the DOCCS regulations. And yes, it is at the
13 discretion of an individual officer in these
14 cases.
15 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, if
16 the sponsor would yield, please.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
18 sponsor yield?
19 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
21 sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
23 Is the sponsor aware of any trends
24 in our prisons over the last seven or eight years
25 as far as violence on corrections officers? Is
1709
1 it an upward trend, a downward trend, has it been
2 generally steady?
3 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
4 Madam President. I wouldn't be able to
5 characterize whether there is an upward or a
6 downward trend in assaults on corrections
7 officers in New York.
8 What I will say is that in other
9 jurisdictions -- in fact, in every other
10 jurisdiction where they have limited or
11 eliminated the use of long-term solitary
12 confinement -- they have seen a decrease in
13 violence in the facility, including violence
14 committed against corrections officers.
15 SENATOR STEC: Madam President,
16 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
17 yield, please.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
19 sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
21 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
22 sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR STEC: Senator, would it
24 surprise you to learn that in 2013 there were 645
25 assaults against officers in New York corrections
1710
1 facilities, and in 2020 that number jumped to
2 1,050?
3 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
4 Madam President. I'm not necessarily surprised
5 by this information. I think that we need to
6 take any violence that occurs in correctional
7 facilities seriously. And it is part of what
8 motivates me to support this bill, based on the
9 evidence that we've seen that limiting the use of
10 solitary confinement, and reducing it, is
11 consistent with reductions in violence.
12 SENATOR STEC: Madam President,
13 through you, if the sponsor would please yield.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR STEC: Thank you, Senator
20 Salazar.
21 Step-down units. They're units
22 where inmates go, under current regulations, when
23 they've completed their time in the special
24 housing unit but are still too dangerous to be
25 placed back in general population. In these
1711
1 step-down units the inmates receive more
2 programming than they did in SHU, but they are
3 still subject to stricter safety measures than in
4 the general population, which is important.
5 HALT would provide no such units.
6 The RRUs contemplated by HALT are not step-down
7 units. So how would they plan to deal with an
8 inmate who is not ready to be returned to the
9 general population?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
11 Madam President. Actually, the bill does not
12 specify that the existing step-down units in
13 DOCCS facilities could not actually be used as
14 RRU. These same units could be used as
15 residential rehabilitative units.
16 It is about the amount of
17 out-of-cell time, at least seven hours of
18 out-of-cell time that someone would be provided
19 if they are in RRU, as well as access to
20 programming, including -- there are about
21 99 different programs currently offered by DOCCS.
22 Many of those wouldn't likely be available to
23 someone who is in RRU, but many would.
24 These are programs such as seeking
25 to reduce violence, anger management, mental
1712
1 health programs, different rehabilitative
2 programs that DOCCS currently offers.
3 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, if
4 the sponsor would continue to please yield.
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
6 sponsor yield?
7 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
9 sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
11 Madam President. Thank you, Senator.
12 Under HALT, an inmate can be sent
13 back to the general population without having to
14 complete the necessary programming that they were
15 receiving in the special housing unit. If the
16 purpose of this type of programming is to
17 rehabilitate an inmate, shouldn't the inmate be
18 required to complete the training?
19 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
20 Madam President. The purpose of the programming
21 is to rehabilitate, to address behaviors that may
22 have led someone to end up in SHU in the first
23 place and then to be separated from the general
24 population in RRU.
25 The purpose here is actually to give
1713
1 more access to these programs. Because under
2 current law and regulation, DOCCS is not required
3 to provide these programs to people while they're
4 incarcerated.
5 SENATOR STEC: Madam President,
6 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
7 yield.
8 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
9 sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
12 sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
14 HALT requires a great deal more of
15 congregate setting programs than what currently
16 exists. Will there be additional staff positions
17 created to handle these congregate situations,
18 similar to the RRUs?
19 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
20 Madam President. DOCCS, under this bill, will be
21 able to develop programming and hire additional
22 staff as necessary.
23 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, if
24 the sponsor would continue to yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1714
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
6 HALT also requires programming seven
7 days a week. How are we going to staff this kind
8 of initiative?
9 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
10 Madam President. Currently, DOCCS already
11 provides staff seven days a week.
12 We also are -- in the one-house
13 budget, for example, we have designated
14 additional funds for the implementation of HALT,
15 and that can include ensuring that the facilities
16 can provide the programming that is required
17 under this bill.
18 Although I would note that DOCCS
19 does currently have a budget of more than
20 $3 billion. I would argue that DOCCS has the
21 existing resources to provide this programming to
22 people while they're being held in RRUs.
23 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, if
24 the sponsor would continue to yield, please.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1715
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
6 Senator, it's my understanding in
7 the one-house budget resolution you set aside
8 $100 million towards HALT and these programs. Is
9 that a one-shot or is that going to be an annual
10 recurring level of funding that the state
11 taxpayers are going to have to foot, please?
12 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
13 Madam President. The funding that was included
14 in the one-house budget for the implementation of
15 HALT is for the first round -- or, rather, the
16 first year of implementation.
17 I would also note that while the
18 size of the projected savings varies, it is not
19 disputed. And DOCCS does not dispute that in the
20 long term -- and not even very long, like in a
21 matter of years -- we would see a cost savings to
22 DOCCS and to local facilities through the
23 implementation of HALT.
24 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, if
25 the sponsor would please continue to yield.
1716
1 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
2 sponsor yield?
3 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
4 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
5 sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
7 Madam President.
8 In the beginning of the bill it
9 defines the people that will not be eligible for
10 HALT are people of the age 21 -- among other
11 things -- 21 years of age and younger and
12 55 years and older.
13 What is the science behind picking
14 21 and 55? It's been my experience that a lot of
15 18-, 19-, and 20-year-olds are very dangerous.
16 And frankly, at 52, I feel like I could still be
17 a little danger in three years. So if you could,
18 how did we come up with those ages?
19 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
20 Madam President. It is well-documented -- for
21 example, there was a report from 2006 from a law
22 journal that states that there are very serious
23 impacts on any individual, regardless of their
24 age, of long-term solitary confinement, but that
25 these special populations -- younger people,
1717
1 people over the age of 55 -- for them the impact
2 is exacerbated.
3 For example, for older adults,
4 depriving them of auditory and visual stimuli can
5 worsen existing confusion, memory loss. It
6 exaggerates isolation. Studies have shown that
7 it actually worsens heart disease and can lead to
8 premature death.
9 SENATOR STEC: Madam President,
10 will the sponsor continue to yield.
11 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
12 sponsor yield?
13 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
15 sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR STEC: Thank you, Senator.
17 I'm not quite ready to move off of the age thing.
18 Most children understand
19 consequences to their actions. Certainly I
20 believe most adults do. If you're 21 or younger
21 or you're 55 or older, you're not -- this is not
22 a tool for you. There's no consequences to the
23 bad behavior at 20 years old than for somebody
24 who's 22 years old.
25 So how - -- doesn't that increase
1718
1 the safety risk, to have people walking around
2 with two different sets of rules where one person
3 can instigate and face a consequence, but another
4 person could be involved and instigate and not
5 face consequences?
6 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
7 Madam President. In the cases where the person,
8 the individual in question is violent or has
9 demonstrated that they are a safety risk in the
10 facility, they can absolutely still be separated
11 from the general population even if they are
12 included in these special populations, whether
13 it's a young person 21 years or younger or
14 55 years of age or older.
15 The problem is that while someone of
16 course should still face consequences, you know,
17 if they commit an act of violence -- for example,
18 it would not be appropriate to harm their health.
19 You know, we know that the use of solitary
20 confinement has had a very detrimental impact on
21 not only people's mental well-being, but also on
22 their physical well-being. And that should not
23 be a consequence of someone committing an
24 infraction while incarcerated.
25 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, if
1719
1 the sponsor would yield for just a couple more
2 questions, please.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
7 sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
9 Madam President. Thank you, Senator.
10 I think this question may have been
11 asked before, but I want to make sure that we are
12 all clear on the answer. What is the level of
13 involvement in the development of this
14 legislation from the Department of Corrections?
15 And has the Department of Corrections endorsed
16 this bill, or do they support it?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
18 Madam President, DOCCS was very involved in the
19 regulations that were put in place. However,
20 DOCCS was not directly involved in drafting this
21 bill, which wouldn't be typical. They haven't
22 endorsed this bill.
23 SENATOR STEC: Madam President,
24 will the sponsor yield.
25 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
1720
1 sponsor yield?
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
4 sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
6 Does the Department of Corrections
7 oppose this bill?
8 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
9 Madam President, DOCCS does not take a position
10 on this bill.
11 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
12 Madam President, through you, if the
13 sponsor would yield, please.
14 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
15 sponsor yield?
16 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
17 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
18 sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
20 Similarly, previously you were asked
21 about -- and you'd said that you'd spoken with
22 correction officers and staff, of course many of
23 which are members to various labor unions.
24 But have you talked to union
25 leadership -- you know, I mean obviously you talk
1721
1 to an individual correction officer, he or she
2 has their own experience and their own opinion.
3 But certainly the leadership speaks for -- with
4 authority and knowledge and experience -- for the
5 group as a whole.
6 So what contact and what level of
7 support have you received from NYSCOPBA?
8 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
9 Madam President. I have spoken to
10 representatives from NYSCOPBA, also AFSCME, PEF,
11 the unions whose members include corrections
12 officers in these facilities.
13 SENATOR STEC: Madam President, if
14 the sponsor would continue to yield.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
16 sponsor yield?
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
18 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
19 sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR STEC: I'm sorry, I'm not
21 sure I heard an answer to my question.
22 Have you spoken with leadership from
23 NYSCOPBA, Council 82 and PEF, and are they
24 supportive of this bill?
25 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
1722
1 Madam President. They have not expressed support
2 for this bill, but I did speak to them about the
3 provisions of the bill at length.
4 SENATOR STEC: All right.
5 Madam President, if the sponsor would yield for a
6 couple more questions.
7 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
8 sponsor yield?
9 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
11 sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR STEC: Are you aware that
13 NYSCOPBA and PEF are opposed to this bill, have
14 issued memos of opposition?
15 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
16 SENATOR STEC: All right, thank
17 you. One final question, Madam President, if the
18 sponsor would yield.
19 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Does the
20 sponsor yield?
21 SENATOR SALAZAR: Yes.
22 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The
23 sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR STEC: Appreciate your
25 time, Senator Salazar, today, and your candor and
1723
1 the spirit where you're coming from, your heart,
2 in the matter, I truly do.
3 I guess the purpose of the questions
4 I've asked is -- the driving point that I'm
5 trying to get at now is -- and I have my own
6 answer to the question. I suspect your answer is
7 going to be a little different than mine.
8 But should we really be substituting
9 our judgement and authority in an area of
10 expertise that we haven't fully been on the same
11 page with and hasn't been shared and developed
12 with the people that work this every day -- the
13 corrections officers, the staff, the Department
14 of Corrections -- that have the knowledge, have
15 the history, know how we got here, why we got
16 here. Should we be substituting our judgment for
17 their experience?
18 SENATOR SALAZAR: Through you,
19 Madam President. This experience has actually
20 not informed the current use of solitary
21 confinement under the law.
22 And what has informed this bill is
23 the expertise of medical professionals who attest
24 that the use of solitary confinement is harmful.
25 The United Nations, who considers the use of
1724
1 long-term solitary confinement, isolation for
2 longer than 15 days to be torture.
3 This is what has informed the
4 provisions in this bill, in addition to numerous
5 studies, research that demonstrates not only the
6 detrimental impact of the use of solitary
7 confinement but, on the flip side, the benefits
8 of using, instead, alternatives to solitary
9 confinement when someone needs to be separated
10 from the general population.
11 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
12 Senator Salazar.
13 On the bill, please,
14 Madam President.
15 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
16 Stec on the bill.
17 SENATOR STEC: Thank you very much,
18 Madam President.
19 Again, I appreciate
20 Senator Salazar's effort and her passion and her
21 perspective on this, as well as her time in
22 answering my questions today.
23 I have visited many -- in my Senate
24 district there are many corrections facilities
25 run by the State of New York, run by the
1725
1 Department of Corrections. I've visited almost
2 all of them, and I've visited most of them on
3 numerous occasions. I've seen special housing
4 units. I've seen the medical units. I've seen
5 the general population. I've seen these prisons.
6 I've talked to a lot of members of PEF and
7 members of Council 82 and members of NYSCOPBA,
8 and I've talked to the superintendents.
9 Now, I've mentioned before on the
10 floor my -- and I go back to it quite often. The
11 older I get, the more I go back to it. Maybe I'm
12 enjoying looking at my youth. But in my past, I
13 spent eight years in the United States Navy. And
14 I was an engineer working in a nuclear power
15 plant.
16 And let me tell you, the last thing
17 I wanted to see when I walked through the door
18 into the control room to take over the watch was
19 a bunch of people mashing buttons and twisting
20 valves and turning knobs. They had too many
21 things going on, and the plant wasn't steadied
22 out. And that's a really good way -- that's the
23 last time that you want to make additional
24 changes.
25 We have regulations that have been
1726
1 put in place three months ago in these facilities
2 that address a lot of what this bill is aimed at.
3 We've also got COVID and struggling with
4 protective equipment and vaccines and segregating
5 those that are COVID-positive with those that are
6 suspected positive. And there's, you know,
7 limited transportation. We're changing all the
8 criminal justice rules. We're emptying out our
9 prison population.
10 There's just so much going on in
11 corrections right now that it reminds me of
12 walking into that nuclear power plant's control
13 room and saying, The last thing we need to do
14 here is add more variables, because it's going to
15 get more dangerous. So I see parallels there.
16 One of my colleagues brought this up
17 before, but I think it's important to bring up on
18 the bill current regulations in the special
19 housing units. These inmates have access to
20 mental health counseling, they have unlimited
21 access to legal counsel. They get their mail,
22 they have access to their healthcare. They have
23 books, they have playing cards, they have their
24 tablets, they have the -- they have most of the
25 comforts, if you will, of the general population.
1727
1 They eat the same food as the general population.
2 They get the phone, they get the radio.
3 In fact, in my visits, corrections
4 officers have told me that in many instances
5 people leaving the special housing unit will seek
6 an infraction immediately after being let out of
7 the special housing unit, to go back into the
8 special housing unit. It's a phenomenon that I
9 think would surprise many.
10 You know, so anyways, I've been in a
11 lot of these facilities. There's not -- none of
12 us want to spend any more time in there than we
13 have to. There are people, though, that go
14 there, they make their family's livelihood
15 working there. And they're concerned about their
16 own health and their own safety.
17 But in visiting these facilities,
18 I'll tell you this. This isn't Papillon, and
19 this isn't Devil's Island. When -- again, when I
20 was in the Navy, there were 12 of us in a room
21 that's about 12 feet wide by 20 feet long.
22 Twelve of us.
23 Prisoners today -- and it struck me
24 at the time, and I had no idea at the time that I
25 was going to be a state legislator talking about
1728
1 this today. But it struck me odd at the time
2 that in the noblest of callings, serving your
3 country in the military, that these guys
4 volunteered and they had less personal space and
5 less room for gear -- and frankly, 25 years ago,
6 a lot less access to the outside world when at
7 sea -- than the people that have preyed on
8 society and caused society angst and the taxpayer
9 angst and have victims out there. Prisoners are
10 getting better treatment and more space and more
11 creature comforts today than sailors that I
12 served with 25 years ago.
13 My concern is about safety. Safety
14 of our officers, safety of our staff, safety of
15 the inmates. I understand it, they're people
16 too. Most of them have people out there that
17 love them. They're somebody's kid. They're
18 human beings. They deserve to be treated
19 reasonably and fairly. And that means they've
20 got to worry about being preyed on by one
21 another. I worry about the safety of the
22 individual.
23 And I -- the special housing unit
24 and the way that they've been run professionally
25 by DOCCS and the people that work for DOCCS for
1729
1 decades, it's a tool in the toolbox. We're going
2 to take this tool, this important tool away from
3 them -- again, while we've been doing everything
4 else, they're all mashing buttons trying to keep
5 up with all the changes that we've put on our
6 criminal justice system. We've made their job
7 only harder and harder in recent years. And now
8 one behavioral tool that they have is going to be
9 taken away from them, it's going to make the
10 officers and the civilian staff less safe. It's
11 going to make the population less safe.
12 And I don't want to see us do
13 something legislatively that is going to cause
14 one more person to be assaulted or physically
15 harmed in any of these facilities. If voting
16 this bill down saves one life, then voting this
17 bill down would be a good thing for us to do.
18 I am and will be voting in the
19 negative. Thank you, Madam President.
20 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Are
21 there any other Senators wishing to be heard?
22 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
23 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
24 Read the last section.
25 THE SECRETARY: Section 14. This
1730
1 act shall take effect one year after it shall
2 have become a law.
3 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Call the
4 roll.
5 (The Secretary called the roll.)
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
7 Brouk to explain her vote.
8 SENATOR BROUK: Thank you,
9 Madam President.
10 I won't take long today. I just
11 wanted to share my experience hearing one of the
12 stories of an individual who had been held in
13 solitary confinement, because I think that it's
14 important when we are talking about this issue to
15 remember we're talking about people and we're
16 talking about their lives.
17 We're talking about people like
18 Layleen Polanco and Kalief Browder, Ben Van Zandt
19 and Dante Taylor, who have lost their lives. And
20 we're talking about the people who are living
21 every single day, sometimes silently struggling
22 from the mental health challenges that they have
23 from being put away in solitary confinement.
24 This is the morally right thing to
25 do. And I am so proud of some of my colleagues,
1731
1 the organizers, the survivors, the advocates, and
2 Senate leadership for pushing this forward.
3 The United Nations believes that the
4 actions we take against these folks who are
5 incarcerated in solitary confinement are wrong.
6 And finally New York State is stepping up to say
7 that we are taking the moral high ground and we
8 will save lives with this bill.
9 And for those reasons, I'm
10 incredibly proud to join my colleagues in voting
11 aye on this bill.
12 Thank you.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
14 Brouk to be recorded in the affirmative.
15 Senator Gianaris to explain his
16 vote.
17 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
18 Madam President.
19 We fancy ourselves a civilized
20 society. And in New York, we like to think we
21 set the tone for a lot of the other states. And
22 yet we continue to cling on to medieval forms of
23 punishment that have been deemed, as you heard
24 through the course of this debate, to be nothing
25 less than torture by authorities such as the
1732
1 United Nations and many others.
2 I heard one of my colleagues just
3 say that if rejecting this bill will save even
4 one life of the general population, then it's
5 worth it. The entire point of this bill is that
6 it will save lives of people in the general
7 population. There are many instances where those
8 who have suffered through solitary confinement
9 have taken their own lives or suffered other
10 physical or mental anguish as a result.
11 And let's be clear. There are other
12 ways to achieve the goals of maintaining order
13 without subjecting someone to this kind of
14 inhumane process.
15 And so I'm proud today to stand with
16 the countless families that have been affected
17 and suffered through the use of this process.
18 And I want to thank the sponsor of
19 the bill, Senator Salazar, for her leadership and
20 command of this issue, not just today during the
21 course of the debate, but over the last several
22 months as we shepherded this important bill
23 through the process.
24 But I'm incredibly proud to be
25 voting in favor of this bill today. It's going
1733
1 to make a real difference and it's going to give
2 us a New York we can be slightly more proud of
3 than was the case before its enactment.
4 I vote in the affirmative. Thank
5 you, Madam President.
6 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
7 Gianaris to be recorded in the affirmative.
8 Senator Akshar to explain his vote.
9 SENATOR AKSHAR: Madam President,
10 thank you.
11 I just heard the word torture. What
12 a mischaracterization. If it were torture, then
13 why would we allow it to take place for a period
14 of 20 days? If we truly believed that using a
15 special housing unit was torture, why would we
16 allow that to happen for 20 days?
17 I said to the sponsor, Yes, we
18 should rehabilitate. Yes, we should have a very
19 strong reentry program. Yes, we should reduce
20 recidivism. But we have a responsibility in this
21 body to protect and ensure the safety and
22 security of the facility, of every inmate that
23 finds themselves incarcerated, and equally as
24 important, we have a responsibility as a body to
25 ensure that we are protecting the hardworking men
1734
1 and women that work in these facilities.
2 I heard that the acting commissioner
3 has not endorsed the bill or has not opined.
4 That's not a big surprise. But I can tell you
5 who has spoken very loudly and very clearly: The
6 hardworking men and women of NYSCOPBA, of PEF, of
7 Council 82. They know this is bad. They know
8 that this is going to endanger not only
9 themselves, but also the people that they are
10 charged with protecting.
11 There are only 1600 people currently
12 in a special housing unit, less than 1 percent of
13 the prison population. But yet we will spend
14 tens of millions of dollars to change our course.
15 I listened with great intent to the
16 sponsor's interview the other day on
17 Capital Pressroom. She said that these
18 regulations have been tried and solitary
19 confinement has increased over the last couple of
20 years.
21 These regulations are less than
22 three months old. We've not even given them an
23 opportunity to work or to be tried.
24 So Madam President, today, even
25 though I am in favor of all of the things that I
1735
1 said during the outset, I'm going to stand on the
2 side of common sense. I'm going to stand on the
3 side of ensuring the safety and security of
4 prison systems, correctional facilities, and I'm
5 going to stand on the side of the hardworking men
6 and women of those organizations that I mentioned
7 and vote no.
8 Thank you, Madam President.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:
10 Senator Akshar to be recorded in the negative.
11 Senator Martucci to explain his
12 vote.
13 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
14 Madam President. I rise today to explain my
15 vote.
16 I'll be voting no today for two
17 simple reasons. First, this legislation is going
18 to give an automatic out, a pass, to prisoners of
19 certain ages. And in the case I'm going to talk
20 about, prisoners over 55, preventing the ability
21 to use a special housing unit.
22 Let's talk about some of the people
23 that are going to catch a break from this
24 legislation. David Berkowitz, the infamous Son
25 of Sam killer, who is in prison here in the State
1736
1 of New York, over 55. Mark David Chapman, John
2 Lennon's murderer. Colin Ferguson, a man who in
3 cold blood murdered six and wounded 19 on the
4 Long Island Rail Road. And Joel Rifkin, who
5 murdered nine women and is suspected to have
6 killed 17 more.
7 Those are just a few of the people
8 who are going to catch an automatic break, an
9 automatic break that I just can't support.
10 In preparation for coming here
11 today, a little over 12 hours ago I visited, for
12 the very first time, a special housing unit,
13 traveled all the way back to my district to visit
14 a jail. And there what I found was an impeccably
15 clean jail. I found a jail that was well-lit and
16 bright. And I even went into one of these
17 special housing unit cells myself.
18 What I also found there were
19 hardworking union members -- NYSCOPBA, PEF,
20 Council 82, CSEA, and many others. And what I
21 found out is that these members have been waiting
22 for a raise that they were due last year, over a
23 year.
24 I ask this Majority to focus on an
25 important piece for these workers, which is
1737
1 delivering them the raise that they are due. I
2 wish we were in such a rush to take care of these
3 hardworking union members, these hardworking
4 New Yorkers, as we are to pass this bill today.
5 So for the reasons that I've
6 outlined and the reasons many of my colleagues
7 have outlined, I'll be voting in the negative,
8 and I urge my colleagues to do the same.
9 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
10 Martucci to be recorded in the negative.
11 Senator Rivera to explain his vote.
12 SENATOR RIVERA: Thank you,
13 Madam President.
14 Solitary confinement is torture.
15 I'm not the only one to say it; some of my
16 colleagues have said it. We've -- my colleague
17 Senator Salazar went deep into this, and we have
18 read much on the subject.
19 In particular, there's one person
20 that I want to underline here that is the reason
21 why I'm on this floor today to proudly vote in
22 the affirmative on this piece of legislation.
23 His name is Kalief Browder. I should say his
24 name was Kalief Browder.
25 I've talked about him on this floor
1738
1 before: A constituent of mine who, at 16, was
2 arrested and charged with stealing a backpack.
3 He spent three years at Rikers Island, and two of
4 those in solitary confinement. Maybe they called
5 it a SHU or maybe they called it another name.
6 But ultimately what that led to was that after he
7 was let out, while not being charged with
8 anything, because he had never stolen anything,
9 he then committed suicide in my district, in the
10 home where he lived with his mother.
11 And he did that because of how much
12 he had been harmed by this practice that has been
13 abused in this system for way too long.
14 As my colleague Senator Gianaris
15 said, there are other ways to maintain discipline
16 in a facility. These folks, the folks who are
17 incarcerated, are people as well. And unlike
18 what some of my colleagues have tried to make us
19 think, not every single one of them is a predator
20 straight out of a 1990s horror flick. The
21 majority of them are going to come back to our
22 communities, the majority of them are there for
23 nonviolent crimes. And many of them have to
24 spend hours, days, weeks, sometimes months
25 without any real connection to other people.
1739
1 That harms them. And that harms us.
2 Which is why we need to move in a
3 different direction. And I'm incredibly proud to
4 vote in the affirmative on this piece of
5 legislation, for Kalief and for every other
6 person that has found themself in this situation.
7 Thank you to the sponsor for
8 bringing this to the floor. Thank you to our
9 leader for bringing it here. I vote in the
10 affirmative.
11 Thank you, Madam President.
12 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD:
13 Senator Rivera to be recorded in the affirmative.
14 Senator Salazar to explain her vote.
15 SENATOR SALAZAR: Thank you,
16 Madam President.
17 I want to begin by thanking our
18 Majority Leader, Senator Stewart-Cousins, for her
19 support in allowing me to carry the HALT solitary
20 confinement bill. Or, as Assemblyman Aubry has
21 aptly said, in passing the baton to me, since
22 this bill precedes my time in the Senate.
23 I want to quickly address something
24 that was just said that -- and note that the
25 settlement from NYCLU was actually beginning to
1740
1 be implemented -- the provisions of the
2 settlement -- years ago. It has not been only a
3 matter of months, but it has been years since
4 some of these regulations have been in place.
5 I also want to add, on the subject
6 of safety, that not only would this bill, as
7 Senator Gianaris mentioned, save lives of people
8 who are incarcerated, but it will do so without
9 compromising anyone else's safety.
10 There is no evidence to support the
11 claim that solitary confinement increases safety
12 or that its absence would increase violence
13 within prisons. Colorado, for example, decreased
14 its use of solitary confinement by 85 percent,
15 and prisoner assaults on staff are now the lowest
16 that they have been since 2006.
17 Colorado actually implemented a
18 15-day limit on solitary, dropped the number of
19 people who are held in solitary, and they saw
20 violence in their facilities decline by 40
21 percent. Corrections staff who initially opposed
22 the changes there now support them.
23 People across our state who have
24 survived solitary confinement, and families who
25 have lost their loved ones to the lasting harms
1741
1 of solitary, have testified for years to the
2 urgency of ending the use of solitary confinement
3 in our state.
4 Today I'm thinking of Ben Van Zandt.
5 Ben was 17 years old when he was sent to Fishkill
6 Correctional Facility. During his incarceration
7 at Fishkill, Ben was sexually assaulted, beaten,
8 and continually harassed. He was retaliated
9 against. He was not always given the
10 antipsychotic medication that he was prescribed.
11 Ben spent long stretches of time in
12 solitary confinement, where his mental health
13 deteriorated into severe depression and suicidal
14 thoughts. In July of 2014, an OMH evaluation at
15 Fishkill said that Ben was mentally unstable and
16 vulnerable. But DOCCS placed Ben in solitary
17 confinement despite his well-documented mental
18 illness.
19 And later that same year, Ben was
20 driven to take his own life in the isolation of
21 his cell. He was only 21 years old.
22 I'm also, as Senator Rivera
23 mentioned, thinking of Kalief Browder today.
24 Kalief Browder was 16 years old when he was
25 placed in pretrial detention in Rikers Island
1742
1 after being charged for stealing a backpack.
2 In the time that Kalief spent in
3 New York City's Rikers Island facility awaiting
4 trial as a legally innocent person, he spent
5 nearly two years in solitary confinement,
6 700 days. Ultimately, Kalief's charge was
7 dropped. He was never convicted. But the
8 negative impact of confinement solitary
9 confinement on Kalief's mental health persisted,
10 and ultimately drove him to suicide.
11 Today I'm thinking about Layleen
12 Polanco. While being held in pretrial detention
13 at Rikers, the New York City Department of
14 Correction knew about Layleen's medical
15 condition, that she had epilepsy. But she was
16 placed in solitary against the recommendation of
17 medical professionals. Layleen suffered an
18 epileptic seizure and died alone in solitary
19 confinement. She was 27 years old.
20 It is abundantly clear that the use
21 of solitary confinement has exacerbated mental
22 illness. It has caused illness where it didn't
23 previously exist. Reducing the use of solitary
24 confinement has been consistent with dramatic
25 decreases in violence in correctional facilities.
1743
1 We know that reducing the use of
2 solitary confinement will in turn reduce
3 recidivism, and it will make correctional
4 facilities and our communities safer.
5 Dostoevsky once said the degree of
6 civilization in a society can be judged by
7 entering its prisons. Solitary confinement in
8 our carceral system has not only caused sickness
9 in individuals, it has also made our society
10 sick. But in passing this bill today, we are
11 taking a necessary step to begin to heal.
12 Thank you, Madam President.
13 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: Senator
14 Salazar to be recorded in the affirmative.
15 Announce the results.
16 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
17 Calendar 555, those Senators voting in the
18 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle,
19 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza,
20 Mannion, Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara,
21 Ortt, Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec,
22 Tedisco and Weik.
23 Ayes, 42. Nays, 21.
24 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: The bill
25 is passed.
1744
1 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
2 reading of the controversial calendar.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there any
4 further business at the desk?
5 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: There is
6 no further business at the desk.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: I move to
8 adjourn until Monday, March 22nd, at 3:00 p.m.,
9 intervening days being legislative days.
10 ACTING PRESIDENT PERSAUD: On
11 motion, the Senate stands adjourned until Monday,
12 March 22nd, at 3:00 p.m., intervening days being
13 legislative days.
14 (Whereupon, at 12:54 p.m., the
15 Senate adjourned.)
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25