Regular Session - April 8, 2022
2119
1 NEW YORK STATE SENATE
2
3
4 THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD
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6
7
8
9 ALBANY, NEW YORK
10 April 8, 2022
11 9:36 a.m.
12
13
14 REGULAR SESSION
15
16
17
18 LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR BRIAN A. BENJAMIN, President
19 ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary
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25
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
3 come to order.
4 I ask everyone present to please
5 rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
6 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited
7 the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)
8 THE PRESIDENT: In the absence of
9 clergy, let us bow our heads in a moment of
10 silent reflection or prayer.
11 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected
12 a moment of silence.)
13 THE PRESIDENT: Reading of the
14 Journal.
15 THE SECRETARY: In Senate,
16 Thursday, April 7, 2022, the Senate met pursuant
17 to adjournment. The Journal of Wednesday,
18 April 6, 2022, was read and approved. On motion,
19 the Senate adjourned.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Without objection,
21 the Journal stands approved as read.
22 Presentation of petitions.
23 Messages from the Assembly.
24 Messages from the Governor.
25 Reports of standing committees.
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1 Reports of select committees.
2 Communications and reports from
3 state officers.
4 Motions and resolutions.
5 Senator Gianaris.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
7 we're going to begin by calling a meeting of the
8 Finance Committee in Room 332.
9 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
10 immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in
11 Room 332.
12 The Senate will stand at ease.
13 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
14 at 9:37 a.m.)
15 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
16 10:01 a.m.)
17 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
18 return to order.
19 Senator Gianaris.
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: There's a report
21 of the Finance Committee at the desk.
22 Can we please take that up.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
24 read.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger,
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1 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
2 following bills:
3 Senate Print 8001A, Senate Budget
4 Bill, an act making appropriations for the
5 support of government;
6 Senate Print 8008C, Senate Budget
7 Bill, enacts into law major components of
8 legislation necessary to implement the state
9 transportation, economic development and
10 environmental conservation budget.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
12 the report of the Finance Committee.
13 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
14 of accepting the report of the Finance Committee
15 signify by saying aye.
16 (Response of "Aye.")
17 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
18 (No response.)
19 THE PRESIDENT: The report is
20 accepted.
21 Senator Gianaris.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's take up
23 the supplemental calendar, please.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
25 read.
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1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 748, Senate Print 8001A, Senate Budget Bill, an
3 act making appropriations for the support of
4 government.
5 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 749, Senate Print 8008C, Senate Budget Bill, an
9 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
11 message of necessity at the desk?
12 THE PRESIDENT: There is a message
13 of necessity at the desk.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
15 the message of necessity.
16 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
17 of accepting the message of necessity please
18 signify by saying aye.
19 (Response of "Aye.")
20 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
21 (Response of "Nay.")
22 THE PRESIDENT: The message is
23 accepted, and the bill is before the house.
24 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside.
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1 That completes the reading of the
2 supplemental calendar.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to the
4 controversial calendar.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
6 ring the bell --
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: I'm sorry,
8 Mr. President, beginning with Calendar Number
9 749.
10 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
11 ring the bell.
12 The Secretary will read.
13 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
14 749, Senate Print 8008C, Senate Budget Bill, an
15 act to amend the Public Authorities Law.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Oberacker.
17 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 I would like to ask some questions,
20 if I could, on the Part MMM.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
22 yield?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR OBERACKER: And good
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1 morning.
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Good morning.
3 SENATOR OBERACKER: So back in
4 2019, our former governor introduced the fiber
5 optic tax. In that same year we had one of my
6 colleagues -- I wasn't here at that time, but a
7 colleague nonetheless -- Senator Helming bring
8 forth legislation to repeal the fiber optic tax.
9 So my first question, does this bill
10 subject state-supported broadband projects to
11 prevailing wage requirements?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes,
13 Mr. President, it does.
14 SENATOR OBERACKER: Through you,
15 Mr. President, will the sponsor yield.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
17 yield?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
21 So does the -- does a project have
22 to meet a certain threshold, it would be a total
23 project cost, in order to be subjected to
24 prevailing wage requirements?
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: No.
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1 SENATOR OBERACKER: Through you,
2 Mr. President, would the sponsor continue to
3 yield.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
5 yield?
6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Absolutely.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
9 So if there's no threshold, is there
10 any accounting for regional differences in the
11 cost or the feasibility of the project?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
13 Mr. President, it's my understanding that the
14 model of prevailing wage in State of New York is
15 to be regionally driven. So I think that that
16 would be factored in under this law as well.
17 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
18 Through you, Mr. President, would
19 the sponsor continue to yield?
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR OBERACKER: So with
25 regional differences and cost feasibility
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1 projects, is there any consideration for those
2 factors that would have an effect on, say, an
3 overall project being put forth?
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm sorry,
5 Mr. President, we're not sure we understand the
6 question. Could I ask the -- my colleague to
7 rephrase it?
8 THE PRESIDENT: Sure.
9 SENATOR OBERACKER: So with the
10 idea of prevailing wage and if there is a --
11 there is no threshold, is that what I'm
12 understanding to be correct?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, there's no
14 threshold based on project.
15 SENATOR OBERACKER: So through you,
16 Mr. President, if there is -- if there are -- is
17 there any accounting? Let me get my -- yes, let
18 me get my head -- so is there any account for the
19 regional differences in that cost or feasibility
20 project as far as that is concerned?
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: So of course this
22 is being paid for with grant funds from the
23 state, so we have to believe that the state would
24 adjust for regional cost differences for
25 different projects in what they allocate per
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1 grant.
2 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
3 Through you, Mr. President, would
4 the sponsor continue to yield.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
6 yield?
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
8 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR OBERACKER: So I'm happy to
10 see that the fiber tax is being eliminated. And
11 of course our conference has, on the onset,
12 opposed this.
13 Do you feel broadband projects are
14 more feasible in rural and underserved
15 communities after the passage of this budget?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
17 Mr. President. Yes, I proudly do.
18 I think we are all very aware that
19 New York State has been suffering from not having
20 universal broadband coverage and the recognition
21 that perhaps the more rural or least densely
22 populated areas of the State of New York have
23 been the last to be brought on to ensuring
24 quality wireless service for themselves, which is
25 now a necessity of our lives.
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1 And so yes, there was a time where
2 perhaps we thought that having the tax would
3 provide adequate resources alone to make sure
4 that these projects got completed. But as we
5 know, they have not, and it has been a source of
6 frustration to I think all of us in the
7 Legislature.
8 So we are very, very happy with the
9 outcome going into this budget and the agreement
10 made between the Governor and the two houses,
11 because we are confident that it's both going to
12 speed up the process by which we complete the
13 assignment of getting everywhere in New York
14 State covered with broadband, that it actually
15 assure decent-paying jobs for people working on
16 ensuring this broadband is implemented statewide.
17 And of course the plus as well --
18 and I think it's one of the reasons that it's an
19 additionally good investment by the State of
20 New York -- is you then have people who are
21 trained in high-tech new forms of communication
22 who are available to go into the economy that is
23 basically being driven by newer high-tech models
24 of the kinds of workers they need.
25 So we're not only going to be
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1 speeding along the process by which we implement
2 broadband; we'll also be training a new universe
3 of workers in the exact skill sets that they are
4 needed in. And so it should be actually helping
5 for longer-term job continuation while assuring
6 prevailing wages at the time they're doing this
7 work for the state.
8 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
9 Through you, Mr. President, would
10 the sponsor continue to yield.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
12 yield?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: I will, but I
14 just want to highlight I left out an important
15 sentence.
16 We also provide $1.4 billion in
17 funding to help get this done.
18 And now I'm happy to take the next
19 question.
20 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
21 So as a former chair of public works
22 in Otsego County, do we have some sort of an
23 estimation as to what the added cost of
24 subjecting these projects to prevailing wage
25 would actually mean?
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1 SENATOR KRUEGER: So the Department
2 of Labor will be determining the math for each
3 project area. But there's no cost for the
4 counties.
5 So perhaps I misunderstood you if
6 you were asking me about increased costs for the
7 counties from this project.
8 SENATOR OBERACKER: Not per county,
9 just cost in general.
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: So yes, there is
11 an assumption that we would see perhaps some
12 increased overall cost, which we account for in
13 the budget by providing the $1.4 billion.
14 But to make it clear this is not a
15 new cost being passed on to the counties.
16 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
17 Through you, Mr. President, would
18 the sponsor continue to yield.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
20 yield?
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
22 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR OBERACKER: So are there
24 any provisions within this bill related to the
25 broadband projects or grant eligibility that
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1 would restrict this workforce pool in any way,
2 such as limiting out-of-state contractors?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: So the bill does
4 explicitly have preferences for local hires, but
5 there's nothing that explicitly says you can't
6 hire someone from out of the region or out of the
7 state.
8 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
9 Through you, Mr. President, would
10 the sponsor continue to yield.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
12 yield?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR OBERACKER: So if we were
16 to restrict the workforce in this manner, from an
17 out-of-state to local in this manner, would it
18 slow the deployment of those into the field and
19 actually getting further hookups and increased
20 services, or increasing costs? Is there -- are
21 we looking at slowing things down and increasing
22 costs, basically, if we use that model?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I certainly
24 think the underlying intention of this entire
25 bill is not to slow this down. In fact, just the
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1 opposite. There's been a frustration at how
2 slowly things have been moving, which is why this
3 whole package is in the budget.
4 So I'm actually fairly confident
5 that with the new model and the supplemental
6 funds that we should see a speeding up of
7 projects throughout the state.
8 If you're asking the question
9 does -- well, I'm not sure the question is does
10 allowing out-of-state or not allowing
11 out-of-state have an impact on the speed at which
12 projects get done. Again, it does not outlaw the
13 hiring of people from other regions, but it gives
14 preference to hiring local people to do the work.
15 I think that that is overall an ideological
16 belief for most of us here, that we want the jobs
17 to come from the communities to get the people
18 trained who are living and working in our
19 communities, to get the people who live and work
20 in our communities to have good-paying,
21 prevailing-wage jobs.
22 I don't actually know the math on
23 whether there are certain areas of the state
24 where that will be more difficult and they would
25 be more likely to need to look farther abroad --
2134
1 not abroad per se, but, you know, across the
2 state line or across a county line. So I don't
3 know actually if anybody knows that answer.
4 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
5 Through you, Mr. President, would
6 the sponsor continue to yield.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
8 yield?
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
10 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you,
12 Senator Krueger. And I'm kind of glad to hear
13 that because as the ranking member on Internet
14 and Technologies -- who does not have broadband
15 service at my house -- I find it extremely
16 exciting to hear that. So thank you.
17 My question -- through you,
18 Mr. President -- so both the Connect All
19 Deployment Program and Connect All Municipal
20 Assistance Program require that applicants submit
21 a workforce plan which shall include information
22 relating to whether a construction workforce will
23 be directly employed or subcontracted, the
24 anticipated size of that workforce required to
25 carry out the proposed work, a description of
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1 plans to maximize use of local or regional
2 workforce, and a description of the expected
3 workforce safety standards training to ensure the
4 project is completed at a high standard.
5 What is the overall purpose of this
6 plan?
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: So that the state
8 can actually determine what allotment of funds
9 may be needed for that specific project to work,
10 with the locality to address their unique
11 needs -- because it may differ from municipality
12 to municipality, county to county -- and to keep
13 us all informed of how this project is going and
14 to answer questions like the previous one, how
15 many workers had to come from farther afield, how
16 many workers are not New Yorkers.
17 So I think that's just sort of
18 standard kinds of information it makes common
19 sense to want to collect, both for determining
20 through Department of Labor what funds need to be
21 made available and for us to actually track how
22 this project is going throughout the State of
23 New York.
24 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
25 Mr. President, on the bill.
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1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Oberacker
2 on the bill.
3 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you,
4 Senator Krueger, for taking the time to answer my
5 questions.
6 You know, as -- representing the
7 51st Senate District, very rural in its makeup,
8 and again as one who does not have the ability
9 nor the service to have broadband at my house, I
10 feel this is extremely important to rural upstate
11 New York for many reasons.
12 We found, coming out of COVID, the
13 ability to attend classes, telehealth. I'm a
14 member of my EMS squad, and to be able to just
15 have the ability to have what we call the "I am
16 responding" ability on my phone and so on, is
17 extremely, extremely important.
18 I'm excited about what has been put
19 forth. I have some reservations as to how
20 quickly and how cost-effective this can be put
21 forward, but I was encouraged to see that this is
22 an issue that has been long-standing that is
23 being addressed.
24 And with that I thank you,
25 Mr. President.
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1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stec.
2 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. Good
3 morning, Mr. President. If the sponsor would
4 please yield for some questions having to do with
5 Part QQ, the freshwater wetlands regulations.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
7 yield?
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: I do, although
9 I'm just going to take a double-check.
10 If you don't mind, my colleague
11 Senator Harckham -- this is near and dear to him,
12 and he would like to answer these questions.
13 SENATOR STEC: Not at all. Not at
14 all.
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Sounds good.
18 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
19 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you,
20 Senator Krueger.
21 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. Good
22 morning, Senator Harckham. How are you?
23 SENATOR HARCKHAM: I'm very well,
24 thank you, on two hours sleep. Good morning to
25 you. How are you?
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1 SENATOR STEC: Good. I'm better
2 than two hours, so thank you.
3 SENATOR HARCKHAM: This will be
4 fun.
5 SENATOR STEC: Through you,
6 Mr. President, if the sponsor would yield for a
7 few questions.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
9 yield?
10 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR STEC: All right, thank
13 you. On Part QQ I see that we're making some
14 changes to the permitting process or definitions
15 of what constitutes freshwater wetlands. I was
16 wondering if you could first lead off by just,
17 you know, summarizing what this changes to where
18 we are today, and where this will take us, and
19 then the follow-up question obviously will be why
20 we're doing this.
21 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Sure,
22 absolutely. Through you, Mr. President.
23 Actually, maybe I'll take the second part of your
24 question first, if that's okay, and then answer
25 the second part.
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1 The reason we are doing this is --
2 let's talk about wetlands in the big picture.
3 Wetlands are nature's filter. They filter out
4 pollutants. They are a host to thousands of
5 species, lending biodiversity. They're great for
6 carbon capture. They protect our water quality.
7 And most importantly, they help mitigate
8 flooding.
9 So for instance, in my district
10 right now the taxpayers of my district are on the
11 hook for $65 million to remove phosphorus from
12 stormwater. So we are rebuilding artificial
13 wetlands that have been paved over. And so in
14 New York State half of the historic wetlands in
15 New York State have been destroyed, either
16 through development or paving or dredging.
17 So the need to protect our wetlands,
18 especially now with climate change and phosphorus
19 mitigation -- you'll see, you know, upstate, all
20 over New York State, our freshwater bodies are
21 impeded with eutrophication, with blue-green
22 algae. We can't drink, we can't swim in the
23 water anymore, and it's because we don't have
24 sufficient wetland capacity to filter out the
25 phosphorus. So that's kind of why we're doing
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1 it.
2 The problem with the existing law at
3 12.4 acres is the maps are kind of haphazard, and
4 it's challenging for the regulators but, more
5 importantly, it's challenging for the developers.
6 So when we passed this bill last year, it was a
7 different version, as you alluded to. We spent a
8 lot of time speaking with builders in the
9 development community because they were looking
10 for certainty. And they liked the model because
11 it gave them certainty.
12 So we arrived at this bill in
13 compromise with both the second floor and with
14 our colleagues in the Assembly.
15 So what is going to happen in this
16 bill, starting in 2005 {sic} we'll be declaring
17 and mapping wetlands that are called wetlands of
18 unusual importance. And those are ones in a city
19 that can be ruled to have water quality impact,
20 flooding mitigation. And then in 2008 {sic} is
21 when the enforcement will start, so -- and then
22 it will be dropped from the current 12.4 to
23 7.4 acres.
24 So with this legislation we're doing
25 a couple of things. We're providing certainty to
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1 the business community, we're providing better
2 mapping, and we're protecting more wetlands. We
3 will protect, with this legislation, millions of
4 acres of wetlands.
5 However, if a wetland is not deemed
6 to be of unusual importance, it will just be a
7 general permit, which is a one-page thing and
8 will not have the kind of focus a wetland of
9 unusual importance will.
10 SENATOR STEC: Mr. President, if
11 the sponsor will continue to yield.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
13 yield?
14 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Yes, sir.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR STEC: All right, thank
17 you. I appreciate that intro to what we're doing
18 here. And I'm encouraged -- I certainly agree
19 that I think any applicant or developer would
20 want to have certainty and remove ambiguity in
21 the process.
22 However, I guess my question is --
23 is that for years we've been working off of maps.
24 I have not heard developers say that they like
25 this proposal -- or farmers, or property owners,
2142
1 or local government in my -- I have over 80 towns
2 in my district, bigger than Connecticut and
3 Rhode Island combined. I represent a lot of
4 rural areas of the state and a lot of wetlands.
5 So I have not had the same experience with
6 people's reaction to this proposal as you've
7 reported.
8 But I guess my question -- my first
9 question would be: Do you know how many acres
10 are currently regulated in New York State, you
11 know, by these maps? And then, under this new
12 law, how many additional acres would be added to
13 that? And are we going to see a commensurate
14 increase in DEC staffing to accommodate all these
15 new wetlands that we're going to create?
16 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
17 Mr. Chair.
18 First I would just like to add one
19 thing. You had mentioned farmers in your
20 comments. Agriculture and silviculture are
21 exempt from this law. So farmers should -- are
22 able to go about their business, and those who
23 engage in the growth or harvesting of trees can
24 go about their business.
25 We do not know exactly right now
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1 what the new acreage will be, because new maps
2 are going to be done in conjunction with
3 satellite mapping services, fish and wildlife
4 service, and some of the universities that have
5 done some of this mapping work.
6 So right now we have a very
7 haphazard system of mapping, and sometimes
8 property owners will have to ask DEC to map a
9 property in order for them to go ahead and do
10 their development. This will take a more
11 proactive approach. We'll be using the latest
12 technology. And there will be a three-year
13 period for people to be brought up to speed, to
14 be educated, and for us as a state to finally
15 have a complete and accurate set of maps.
16 SENATOR STEC: If the sponsor would
17 continue to yield, please.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
19 yield?
20 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Yes, sir.
21 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR STEC: My understanding is
23 in the mid-1990s there was estimated 2.4 million
24 acres of wetlands in New York. And some
25 advocates are projecting that this law will add
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1 an additional million acres. So that's
2 3.5 million acres of wetlands. That's bigger
3 than Suffolk County. It's half the size of the
4 Adirondack Park, to give you an idea of how much
5 of our land would be regulated under this.
6 With that said, making it that much
7 more difficult to permit, to do any activity in
8 something that's classified under a wetlands,
9 isn't there -- wouldn't there be concern that
10 this is going to impact the goals of the CLCPA
11 for promoting and pushing the development of
12 solar? Will opponents to solar farms in their
13 backyards use this new definition of wetlands as
14 current opponents use wetlands to oppose
15 something that they don't want in their
16 neighborhoods -- solar panels are great so long
17 as I don't see them, so long as they're not in my
18 backyard?
19 Are you concerned that an unintended
20 consequence here of increasing by 50 percent the
21 number of acres that are protected as newly
22 defined wetlands is going to have impacts on
23 other agendas to your climate change agenda?
24 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
25 Mr. President, that's a good question. I would
2145
1 say two things.
2 Wetlands are about resiliency.
3 Wetlands are probably one of nature's best carbon
4 capture mechanisms. So if we're talking about
5 the goals of the CLCPA, protecting more acres of
6 wetlands is completely consistent with that. In
7 fact, I think the figure is 15 percent of our
8 emissions will be reduced by carbon capture. You
9 know, most of it will be done through clean
10 energy, clean transportation, but 15 percent will
11 still be through carbon capture, and that's what
12 wetlands are incredible at.
13 The other thing is this is only
14 wetlands of unusual importance that will have
15 that extra permitting requirement. And so if
16 there is a fragile wetland, I would agree with
17 those opponents, you may not want to site a solar
18 farm there. That might not be the best location
19 for it.
20 But I don't think that protecting
21 wetlands is inconsistent with climate change
22 goals of the CLCPA.
23 I would further go back to the
24 resiliency of flooding and the amount of rain and
25 the storms that we're getting. Five people in
2146
1 Westchester County died during Ida because of
2 flooding, and that's in large part because we
3 have lost most of our natural retention. So
4 where does all that water go? It flows onto the
5 local highways, and they flood, and we've had
6 tragic results.
7 SENATOR STEC: Mr. President, will
8 the sponsor continue to yield, please.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
10 yield?
11 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
14 So back to the area of the maps.
15 Now, it's my understanding that this map that
16 we're abandoning now has not been updated in
17 20 years. Which again, that would be certainly a
18 cause for frustration for landowners and would-be
19 developers to want to use a resource that the
20 state has required them to use that hasn't been
21 updated in 20 years.
22 Now, a lot of technology has changed
23 in last 20 years. It's my understanding that DEC
24 has $400,000 in drone technology that they're
25 looking to use to look for orphan oil and gas
2147
1 wells. I would think that would be a lot easier
2 for a drone to spot a wetland, a 15-acre wetland,
3 than it would be to spot a leaking gas well or a
4 gas pipe from the air.
5 So my first question on that would
6 be, wouldn't it be a good use of that resource to
7 take an investment and make these maps better and
8 more reliable, rather than, as the legislation
9 states -- it's just a surrender. Instead of
10 fixing the maps, the legislation actually reads:
11 Freshwater wetland maps depict the approximate
12 location of wetlands and are not necessarily
13 determinative as to whether a permit is required
14 pursuant to Section 24-0701 of this article.
15 So the legislation just basically
16 shrugs its shoulders and says, maps are too
17 difficult to use, we don't want to use the maps.
18 But why not use the current technology and invest
19 in that and produce a set of maps that people can
20 rely on and point to rather than an individual
21 biologist's look, depending on is he looking in
22 March or is he looking in September. Which
23 biologist is it that's coming there to the site?
24 Does he see the plant that day, and a different
25 biologist sees plant -- why aren't we using the
2148
1 technology and making something that's consistent
2 and repeatable and predictable, as opposed to
3 arbitrary to an individual DEC staff member that
4 we may not have enough DEC staff members to
5 accommodate a 50 percent increase in the amount
6 of wetlands that we're trying to regulate in the
7 State of New York?
8 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
9 Mr. President. I would agree with you, Senator,
10 that the maps are out of date. But part of the
11 whole point of this legislation is to update the
12 maps -- as we said, fish and wildlife service,
13 satellite data.
14 And in fact, Section 5 reads: By
15 January 1, 2025, in addition to any ongoing
16 aerial photography, soil surveys or field
17 verification being conducted by the department,
18 the department shall accept -- shall accept
19 information from federal government sources,
20 other state sources, local governments, colleges,
21 universities, environmental organizations or
22 other private agencies regarding the localities
23 of freshwater wetlands.
24 And a big component of that will be
25 aerial satellite mapping to update what you
2149
1 accurately state are out-of-date maps.
2 SENATOR STEC: Mr. President, will
3 the sponsor continue to yield, please.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
5 yield?
6 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Yes, sir.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. Through
9 you, Mr. President. So it is my belief, and I
10 think the belief of a lot of people that I've
11 heard from over the years on these attempts to
12 change the definition of a wetland, that this is
13 going to have a significant fiscal impact to the
14 DEC. If so, will their budget reflect that?
15 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
16 Mr. President, that's another reason why we're
17 starting this first three years out and then
18 another three years out after that, is so that
19 they can properly staff up.
20 So this is not taking effect
21 tomorrow. The first phase is 2025, and then the
22 second phase is 2028. So to your point, that
23 will give DEC time to staff up.
24 SENATOR STEC: Mr. President, if
25 the sponsor will continue for a few more
2150
1 questions.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
3 yield?
4 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
7 Mr. President. Through you.
8 So turning now to the definition of
9 "unusual importance." So, I mean, a freshwater
10 wetlands regardless of size -- regardless of
11 size -- that possesses one or more of the
12 following characteristics, and then it lists
13 several under the letter G.
14 Is a vernal pool that is known to be
15 productive for amphibian breeding. Maybe a lot
16 of people don't know what the definition of a
17 vernal pool is. Could you define "vernal pool,"
18 please?
19 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Yeah, a vernal
20 pool is often adjacent to a wetland that is not
21 wet all of the year, it is wet part of the year.
22 And it is very often a breeding ground for high
23 levels of biodiversity, which is why they are
24 important.
25 But obviously they would need to be
2151
1 adjacent to part of a 7.4-acre wetland parcel.
2 You know, this is not about going around New York
3 State with satellites and locating a vernal pool
4 the size of one of our desks. This would be
5 associated with one of these wetlands of
6 7.4 acres or more.
7 SENATOR STEC: Mr. President, if
8 the sponsor would yield.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
10 yield?
11 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
14 So a vernal pool is a puddle after a
15 rainfall. It's not there all the time, and now
16 it's there. Of any size. So, I mean, a
17 freshwater wetland regardless of size. So heavy
18 rain, wet time of the year, there's a puddle
19 there now -- a puddle the size of this room, a
20 puddle the size of a kitchen table of any size --
21 that's a vernal pool, right?
22 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Mr. President,
23 through you, I would disagree with that and the
24 science disagrees with that.
25 A vernal pool is not a puddle, it is
2152
1 a seasonal ecosystem in and of itself. You can
2 have what you referred to as a puddle, and it is
3 a puddle and it's not regulated. But if there
4 are areas that have seasonal wetness with certain
5 levels of the biodiversity, the biologists could
6 define that as a vernal pool.
7 There's a difference between a
8 vernal pool and a puddle. And the reason that
9 the state is getting involved in this is you
10 remember the federal government got out of this
11 business.
12 SENATOR STEC: Mr. President, if
13 the sponsor would yield, please.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR STEC: All right, so you
19 brought up the federal government and the
20 administration. So what is the current
21 administration doing? I mean, I understand that
22 maybe a different administration -- are you
23 saying that the Biden administration doesn't care
24 about wetlands?
25 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Not -- through
2153
1 you, Mr. President, this bill is silent on what
2 President Biden is doing.
3 This is about working with
4 stakeholders in New York to protect our wetlands,
5 which are protecting our water sources, which are
6 providing water capture for flooding, to mitigate
7 flooding, and also are great aspects of carbon
8 capture.
9 SENATOR STEC: Mr. President, if
10 the sponsor will continue to yield.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
12 yield?
13 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Absolutely.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. Through
16 you, Mr. President.
17 So the back half of Section QQ talks
18 a lot about the penalties -- civil penalties,
19 criminal penalties, a lot of red lighting of
20 lower numbers and green lighting increasing the
21 financial fees that people that are found in
22 violation of this potentially face, increasing in
23 some instances from $7,000 to $10,000 fines. And
24 there's criminal allowances here.
25 So with that in mind, my question
2154
1 would be -- now let's just look at a practical
2 example. If you're a homeowner in a subdivision
3 in the Adirondacks or downstate in the
4 Hudson Valley or in Western New York, and you
5 want to build a shed or an in-law quarters --
6 because we have that need in our society today to
7 have more affordable housing for our seniors.
8 There's been a lot of discussion on that. But
9 you want to put in a pool, you want to put in a
10 shed, you want to put an addition on to allow
11 your in-laws to stay.
12 Every time a homeowner does work on
13 a small lot, you could be within a hundred feet
14 of a vernal pool, a puddle, a seasonal puddle on
15 somebody else's property. It's not mapped.
16 There's no drones coming to look at it. You
17 could easily find yourself in violation of this
18 section that subjects you to criminal penalties
19 and fines of up to $10,000 for a puddle you don't
20 even know exists on the other side of the
21 property line, but it's within 100 feet of your
22 project site. Is that true?
23 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Through you,
24 Mr. President, I would disagree with that
25 assessment.
2155
1 Number one, as we said before, it
2 needs to be adjacent to a wetland of unusual
3 importance of 7.4 acres or more. And then the
4 regulators will decide -- if something was done,
5 you know, benignly, you don't know, I put a shed
6 there -- you know, the object of the law is not
7 to penalize people. That's why we have a
8 three-year period of education after the mapping.
9 We have a three-year phase-in so folks can learn
10 if there are significant wetlands in their area.
11 And if it's not a significant
12 wetland, there's not an issue.
13 SENATOR STEC: Mr. President, on
14 the bill.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stec on the
16 bill.
17 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. I thank
18 Senator Harckham for his advocacy, his efforts
19 here, and answering my questions.
20 I completely agree that the current
21 system that we have is not working. I hear that
22 from -- in my 20 years in local and state
23 government, I've heard complaints about wetlands
24 and DEC and the APA and what is and isn't and how
25 they get used, how regulations get used as a
2156
1 weapon by one neighbor against another neighbor.
2 And they're vague enough and the maps aren't
3 accurate enough. And a biologist comes out and,
4 depending on the time of year that that biologist
5 comes out, and depending on which biologist shows
6 up, maybe it isn't a wetland today. Maybe next
7 week a different biologist looks at it and now
8 there's a vernal pool there and it is a wetland.
9 So there's a lot of frustration out
10 there with the consistency, the predictability,
11 the fairness, the transparency of our current
12 regulations. But of course a 20-year-old map
13 doesn't help that. And what we're doing here is
14 we're taking an already cumbersome process and
15 we're going to make it more restrictive, more
16 difficult, more expensive and more arbitrary and
17 more confusing for our property owners, for our
18 economic developers, for our local governments to
19 have to enforce this, for our ag community.
20 This is a problem in search of a
21 solution and -- or a solution, rather, in search
22 of a problem. I think it's excessive regulation,
23 which of course New York State is well known for.
24 And for that reason I firmly oppose this section
25 of the law.
2157
1 Thank you.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Borrello.
3 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
4 will the sponsor yield for some questions on Part
5 II?
6 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
7 yield?
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Hello again,
9 Mr. President.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Hello, Liz --
11 Senator Krueger.
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: I want to thank
13 Pete Harckham for handling the wetlands issue so
14 well for me. Thank you, Pete.
15 Hello.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
17 yield?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, of course.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
21 Through you, Mr. President.
22 Part II addresses the authorizing of
23 a social equity fund for retail cannabis
24 dispensaries, and it says the Legislature
25 modifies the Executive proposal to establish a
2158
1 social equity fund to provide financial
2 assistance to socially and economically
3 disadvantaged individuals who want to establish a
4 retail cannabis dispensary. And it has a figure
5 of $50 million.
6 Is this part of the $200 million
7 fund that the Governor and the Office of Cannabis
8 Management had proposed earlier?
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
10 Mr. President, yes, that is correct. Fifty
11 million is through the state, and 150 million is
12 through private equity.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
14 will the sponsor continue to yield?
15 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
16 yield?
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: So you have
20 $150 million that is supposed to come from
21 private equity firms.
22 And the question I have on that is,
23 you know, a private investment firm, would they
24 participate in a program like this which would
25 actually potentially open themselves up to some
2159
1 liability? Because, you know, marijuana is still
2 illegal at the federal level.
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 Through you, Mr. President.
5 So technically the private equities
6 would invest in the properties, not actually the
7 businesses. So I think that they feel their
8 liability is not significant.
9 But it goes back to I think a
10 discussion we had maybe last night of are we
11 going to have success with cannabis businesses in
12 this state. And I answered that based on how
13 many businesspeople and investors kept reaching
14 out to talk about how they wanted to get involved
15 in New York, I was fairly confident that this was
16 going to be successful.
17 And I think the fact that none of us
18 are particularly concerned that we won't be able
19 to find partners for this project reinforces my
20 belief that the business sector isn't
21 particularly concerned about the federal
22 questions or liability.
23 Of course, all new businesses
24 involve risk. But this model that we've created
25 under the law, the feedback I continue to get is
2160
1 that people are very, very excited about it and
2 optimistic and want to invest in New York.
3 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
4 will the sponsor continue to yield?
5 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
6 yield?
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
8 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR BORRELLO: So you said this
10 is a very profitable business, lots of people
11 want to get involved. So wouldn't then naturally
12 just money flow to these things? What kind of
13 guarantees is the state going to give to these
14 private equity firms that are going to invest
15 $150 million? If it's such a wonderful
16 opportunity, why do we have to do anything like
17 this? Why wouldn't that just naturally flow
18 there?
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: So when we passed
20 this law we made a significant commitment in the
21 law that New York State was not just going to
22 start cannabis as a legal recreational business
23 opportunity, but that we were going to invest
24 from a social equity perspective. That we were
25 going to make sure that the communities where the
2161
1 most harm had been done through our criminal
2 justice policies around cannabis use and our
3 criminal justice policies that so
4 disproportionately did harm to young people of
5 color -- it was going to be an attempt to reverse
6 that through investment in businesses in these
7 communities with these same people.
8 That kind of commitment does require
9 a jump-start of some assistance of investment.
10 We all know that it is harder to be a start-up
11 business in almost any field if you don't have a
12 background of being successful in business
13 already, or being undercapitalized. And that's
14 what we learned from all these different states
15 that have tried and perhaps failed before us,
16 that they were not willing to capitalize the
17 beginning of the start-up businesses.
18 So that's a commitment we made in
19 the law. And I believe that the model that has
20 been developed -- and appreciate enormously the
21 Governor's willingness to jump into this, in
22 coordination with DASNY, who's the agency that we
23 all know that we go to with issues of can you
24 meet the standards of bonds, are you going to be
25 able to pay things back, or can you handle your
2162
1 finances -- that this was very carefully put
2 together through a very intensive debate among
3 the Assembly, the Senate, and the Governor and
4 the Office of Cannabis Management and the
5 division of DASNY. And we got to a place where
6 we're all quite sure that this is the model
7 that's going to get us there.
8 And so no, I don't think if we just
9 said, okay, let's see what the market does, that
10 we would get the investment in the targeted
11 efforts that we have committed to.
12 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
13 will the sponsor continue to yield.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR BORRELLO: So I understand
19 all that. But, you know, I think a lot of us saw
20 this $200 million as a grant program from the
21 state. I think that's how it was actually
22 proposed. It was going to be $200 million from
23 the state to give those that were disadvantaged
24 the ability to open up a dispensary.
25 Now we're saying it's $150 million
2163
1 of private equity money. I've had experience
2 with private equity money. I can tell you that
3 these people are not going to be interested in
4 something unless New York State is guaranteeing
5 them -- because this is a high-risk venture. You
6 just got done saying that we're going to give
7 this money to people that have never operated a
8 business or have not been successful,
9 necessarily -- even though it does say you have
10 to have two years of experience as a
11 businessperson, but you've never been in this
12 business, necessarily.
13 So what are we going to -- what is
14 the state going to guarantee to these private
15 equity firms? Because to me, a private equity
16 firm is taking on this level of risk, it's going
17 to be credit card rates for this kind of money.
18 It's not going to be something that a state would
19 normally do, you know, like we had during
20 pandemic relief where you had low-interest loans,
21 things like that. I don't think there's going to
22 be too many private equity firms looking to give
23 low-interest loans. So what is the state going
24 to guarantee them?
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: The state is not
2164
1 going to be guaranteeing anything. And this
2 isn't perhaps the kind of private equity model
3 that you've been involved with. This is actually
4 debt funds. And the investors are actually
5 investing in the properties that will then be
6 used for cannabis businesses.
7 So -- and if the cannabis business
8 is not successful, the state may choose to move a
9 license to a different business or the entity may
10 decide to withdraw that property. So I just
11 don't think there's the same level of risk as you
12 think.
13 And again, this model allows the
14 state to put less of its own money in to get to
15 accomplish the same goals we were hoping, which I
16 would think the Legislature would be very happy
17 to learn that we're doing a $200 million program
18 but it's only costing us $50 million.
19 And that again -- and this is why it
20 was so important, I think, to have our partners
21 at DASNY at the table. DASNY, this is what they
22 do for a living, so to speak. And they're very
23 confident that there won't be a problem getting
24 the investment they need.
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
2165
1 will the sponsor continue to yield.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
3 yield?
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, so you're
7 saying, then, that we're going to have then --
8 the private equity firms are only going to invest
9 in the physical property, like a building, but
10 they are not going to have any equity ownership
11 in the business itself. Right?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Right.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: Okay. So you're
14 saying that we want to locate some of -- where
15 we're going to possibly be locating some of these
16 dispensaries. We've already seen some of our
17 high-end suburban areas and, you know, rural
18 towns have opted out. So the majority will be
19 located in areas that I would say are -- where
20 many property values and the value of the resale
21 aren't going to be that great.
22 So you're going to take a private
23 equity firm and we're going to have them invest
24 in property that in the end might not be very
25 valuable to them, especially when it's not
2166
1 actually a dispensary, when it goes from being a
2 high-value item, we're going to hope -- a
3 dispensary business -- to something that's just a
4 vacant piece of property.
5 I don't understand where the
6 incentive is for a VC firm or a private equity
7 firm to step in and do this, especially at this
8 level, 150 million.
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I think the
10 incentive is the interest rate they would earn on
11 the loan, but we have capped it so that it cannot
12 get out of control and everybody agrees that it's
13 a very reasonable rate.
14 And again, I think that my colleague
15 and I just fundamentally disagree with whether a
16 recreational cannabis business or, frankly, a
17 medical cannabis business is a sound business
18 investment. Now, I suspect Senator Borrello
19 won't choose to invest in cannabis businesses,
20 and that is his right as a citizen and perhaps an
21 advisor. I know he's in the liquor business.
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: I'm barred,
23 actually.
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Oh, you're right,
25 you're barred because you are in the liquor
2167
1 business. See, that's why he doesn't like
2 cannabis.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm sorry, that
5 was inappropriate. I did not mean a personal
6 stab in any way, shape or form.
7 But I'm not going to invest in
8 cannabis either, and I'm not barred from it,
9 because I'm not in liquor either. So people have
10 different opinions about what they choose to
11 invest in.
12 But again, I think the real question
13 before us is, is this a sound model for the State
14 of New York? And will it ensure that we are
15 successful in the goals of statutes we have
16 already passed? And based on the extended
17 meetings and conversations of my staff over many,
18 many weeks, and changes that were made, I am very
19 confident that this is going to be successful.
20 And far more relevant than me is the feedback we
21 are getting from the business community that they
22 are very positive this is going to be successful.
23 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
24 will the sponsor continue to yield.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2168
1 yield?
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: So I want to go
5 back to the private equity firms. You said two
6 things that I think are important.
7 Number one, you said you think that
8 they're going to be excited at investing in the
9 cannabis business, but they're actually not,
10 they're actually investing in the properties,
11 much of which is going to be in areas where,
12 quite frankly, it's going to be difficult for
13 them, should the business fail, to be able to get
14 the return on their investment. Number one.
15 But you also said they're going to
16 cap the interest rates. What's the cap? How
17 much is the cap?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Eight percent
19 plus prime.
20 SENATOR BORRELLO: Prime plus 8?
21 Maybe I will invest in it.
22 (Laughter.)
23 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
24 will the sponsor continue to yield.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2169
1 yield?
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR BORRELLO: So prime plus 8,
5 which is actually a credit card rate. I was
6 right about that.
7 And you're going to have -- someone
8 has to own this building. Is the cannabis
9 dispensary owner the people that have been
10 disadvantaged? Are they going to be the owners?
11 Who's going to be paying that prime-plus-8 rate?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: It allows for all
13 options. So the fund could own the building,
14 they could just do loans for the construction
15 work. The business could own the building.
16 And by the way, when we put licenses
17 out for this business model, everyone who applies
18 for a license does not need to go through this
19 path. This is a supplemental path to assist
20 those who need the help.
21 So it's quite possible that many
22 people who go into cannabis businesses, whether
23 it's farming, manufacturing, postproduction --
24 you know, there's a whole new world of packaging
25 and creating packaging for cannabis. That's a
2170
1 new business model -- and hopefully, for us, an
2 environmentally sound, non-plastic packaging
3 model.
4 So there's all kinds of licenses and
5 different people who will choose to get involved,
6 and they do not have to go down this path.
7 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
8 will the sponsor continue to yield.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
10 yield?
11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: Okay. So we're
14 going to do prime plus 8 for these people who are
15 socially disadvantaged, people that may not
16 necessarily -- I would say a large percentage of
17 them will be considered high-risk loans to -- are
18 we going to make them sign a personal guarantee
19 of any kind?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: No,
21 Mr. President, we are not.
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: So there's --
23 will the sponsor continue to yield.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
25 yield?
2171
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
2 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR BORRELLO: So this is
4 essentially going to be an unsecured loan.
5 You're going to attract $150 million of private
6 equity money for an unsecured loan -- well, prime
7 plus 8 I guess is, you know, credit card rate, so
8 that's an unsecured loan.
9 But you don't think that there's
10 going to be any opportunity for these folks to
11 get into massive debt in order to -- and if
12 they're not -- either one of two things is going
13 to happen. They're going to have to get into
14 debt in order to do this at prime plus 8, or
15 they're really not going to have any obligation
16 to actually succeed, because they don't have any
17 personal responsibility.
18 I mean, do we think that's a good
19 business model?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: I think we assume
21 some people will fail. If you look at the
22 restaurant business, I believe in New York City,
23 pre-pandemic, the estimate was that of every
24 10 new restaurants that open, nine fail within
25 the first year. Am I right, is that the number?
2172
1 SENATOR BORRELLO: That's about
2 right nationally.
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay.
4 So yes, like many businesses,
5 it's -- there are risks involved. And lots and
6 lots of businesspeople, even people who are
7 successful in certain businesses fail at others.
8 So we do anticipate a failure rate.
9 What we wanted to do is to try to
10 make sure that we helped ensure that for a
11 universe of people who might otherwise never be
12 able to try to open these kinds of businesses,
13 that we were going to be helping to give them a
14 leg up. Technical assistance, someone else
15 handling the lease -- because they might not be
16 able to get a lease if they were just trying to
17 do it on their own. Somebody else handling the
18 specs of rebuilding something, or even perhaps
19 building from scratch; we haven't crossed that
20 off as a possibility either.
21 We wanted to -- revolving
22 possibility of revolving loan funds, which have
23 not been addressed yet. The idea of technical
24 assistance through various state agencies. We
25 really want to make sure we're giving people the
2173
1 opportunity to succeed.
2 But yes, we're fairly sure some will
3 fail. And again, they can then hand us back the
4 license and say I'm done, or they can say this
5 didn't work but maybe I'll try a different
6 location, if you would consider that. Or perhaps
7 they will decide that, I don't know, a
8 manufacturing plant wasn't the right answer for
9 them, but some other model in cannabis could be.
10 And again, there's medical
11 marijuana, there's the CBD, hemp world of
12 cannabis, and the adult recreational. So the mix
13 and match of possible products for sale and the
14 models that can be successful -- I'm not sure
15 even we know what all the storylines will be yet.
16 But what we're saying as a state is
17 we're serious about this, we're serious about
18 trying to help folks who might otherwise never
19 have a chance to get into these businesses and to
20 be successful in these businesses. We're going
21 to reach out to you, we're going to provide you
22 technical assistance, we're going to be prepared
23 to make an investment in your start-up, and we're
24 even going to handle a bunch of the more complex
25 legal issues such as leasing properties, doing
2174
1 mass construction, reconstruction on properties.
2 We're going to help you along with that, because
3 we want you to successful.
4 And I know that this chamber talks
5 all the time about wanting to help small
6 businesses. And we all recognize that small
7 businesses actually are the backbone of economic
8 development and job creation in the State of
9 New York. And we often talk about being
10 frustrated that so much of our economic
11 development programs and funds go to megaprojects
12 and people who aren't even here in New York.
13 And with this program, these are
14 New Yorkers. These are New Yorkers who are
15 willing to take a risk to become legitimate
16 businesspeople in their communities and to become
17 exactly those entrepreneurs, start-ups, small
18 businesses that I think all of us talk about
19 almost every day wanting to do more for.
20 So I have to say even if you're
21 still not sure you love the product of cannabis,
22 there's so many buttons that are pressed with
23 this model that I think are exactly what the
24 State of New York and many of us think we ought
25 to be doing.
2175
1 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
2 on the bill.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Borrello on
4 the bill.
5 SENATOR BORRELLO: Senator Krueger,
6 thank you. Don't get too comfortable. I have
7 more questions on something else, though.
8 You know, I think most of us thought
9 this $200 million was going to be a grant
10 program. I think that's how it was sold by the
11 Office of Cannabis Management. Quite frankly, I
12 would consider this a bit of a bait-and-switch.
13 You're talking about $150 million at prime plus
14 8, which is essentially credit card rates. But
15 then we're also saying we're going to limit
16 you -- we're going to increase your risk by not
17 having personal guarantees. We're going to limit
18 what you can invest in. You actually can't
19 invest in the business, you're only investing in
20 the property.
21 I don't see a lot of private equity
22 firms jumping up and down for this. So maybe the
23 state's going to have to provide a little bit
24 more guarantee of some kind in order for this to
25 actually work. I suspect that's going to be the
2176
1 case.
2 Now, at that interest rate, you
3 certainly are going to have private equity firms
4 that are willing to take that risk and have a lot
5 of failures, because they're going to be making a
6 lot of profit. But isn't this the same group of
7 people that we've always been concerned about in
8 the past that have been taking advantage? I
9 mean, I'm on the Banks Committee. We talk about
10 this all the time. People in disadvantaged
11 communities being taken advantage of with usury
12 rates in order to get funding for things that
13 they need.
14 The state's now actually involved in
15 that. We're actually going to be actually
16 sanctioning high-rate loans to people in
17 disadvantaged communities so they might have an
18 opportunity.
19 So if the state really wanted to
20 give these folks an opportunity, we'd step up --
21 the whole 200 million, which was originally
22 promised. Now, I can tell you that I think I
23 know why that's not the case. It's because the
24 projections of revenue have plummeted since this
25 was proposed last year, from $300 million to
2177
1 $56 million. So there's not enough money there
2 to do this. You'd have to give up essentially
3 the first three years of the state's return on
4 their investment, if you will, to fund these
5 things.
6 So this all goes back to the main
7 fundamental question, to me: Is this really
8 going to be a good deal for New Yorkers? Is this
9 really going to be the panacea that it was sold
10 as? I don't think it is.
11 And if the goal was to do that, then
12 we'd have better numbers. But if the goal was
13 just we're going to decriminalize marijuana,
14 we're going to let people grow it at home, we're
15 not going to have any consequences for the legal
16 possession of illegal marijuana -- and that's
17 what we want as New Yorkers, that's the
18 progressive way -- then fine, that's what it
19 should have been sold as. Because now we've got
20 all this convoluted stuff around this program
21 that was supposed to be so amazing, it was going
22 to provide so much revenue, so much economic
23 opportunity, especially for people in
24 disadvantaged communities.
25 Well, at prime plus 8, I don't think
2178
1 it's a great investment for a lot of people. And
2 I would be concerned that these folks are going
3 to get themselves in over their head. Because
4 maybe it's not in this part of it, but there's a
5 lot of other things to operate the business that
6 are going to require a lot of money and a lot of
7 investment, and those are the things that could
8 bury these people.
9 Because most businesses do indeed
10 fail. Nine out of 10 fail in the first five
11 years. And this is not going to be any
12 different, especially because New York State has
13 allowed the illegal market, the black market, to
14 boom. Which is going to make the profitable
15 legal business a challenge.
16 So, Mr. President, I'm skeptical at
17 best. Thank you.
18 THE PRESIDENT: You have more
19 questions?
20 SENATOR BORRELLO: A different --
21 different topic.
22 THE PRESIDENT: That's fine.
23 Just -- will the sponsor just --
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: Will the sponsor
25 continue to yield?
2179
1 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2 yield?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Surely.
4 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR BORRELLO: I just want to
6 speak a little about the bond act. I have a
7 couple of questions on the bond act.
8 So the original bond act that the
9 Governor proposed was $3 billion -- I'm sorry,
10 the environmental bond act, to be specific. And
11 this has now been bumped up to 4.2 billion;
12 correct?
13 So my first question on this is the
14 bond act provides a suballocation of about
15 $500 million for school buses and infrastructure.
16 Is there any protection for smaller, poorer
17 school districts that might need a lot more money
18 to transform their fleet to electric?
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: So yes,
20 500 million to -- for electric school buses,
21 non-diesel school buses, yes.
22 And yes, there's a recognition that
23 different school districts have different models
24 now for leasing or owning school buses and that
25 we'll need to be making adjustments for that.
2180
1 The recognition that there may be
2 significant economies of scale if the state is
3 doing its own research and even purchasing of
4 buses for school districts. So that's open to
5 that possibility.
6 We're -- 35 percent is committed to
7 disadvantaged communities -- oh, sorry. Because
8 we passed that fabulous CLCPA, it requires us,
9 for any of these climate change actions moving
10 forward, to require that 35 percent of all
11 spending is specific to disadvantaged
12 communities. So that would apply also with the
13 school buses question.
14 They do not all have to convert
15 within X number of years. It's just that new
16 buses that are being purchased or leased have to
17 be electric by 2027.
18 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
19 Will the sponsor continue to yield?
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: So the one-house
25 budget included funding for municipal buses to be
2181
1 electrified, but it looks like this enacted
2 budget's going to only be limited to school
3 buses. But, you know, there's fewer public
4 transit systems, and they're likely a much higher
5 source of emissions because they're running 24/7
6 in many cases.
7 Wouldn't we try to rather upgrade
8 them first to zero emissions? Because, you know,
9 you're talking about tackling 600-plus school
10 districts in the state. This would be less
11 entities that are likely producing more
12 emissions. Wouldn't we be better off doing that
13 first?
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I certainly
15 would have liked to do both, but we had a
16 limitation on money. Because I think in our
17 one-house we were doing both, actually. And so
18 one got knocked out.
19 But I think there is almost
20 universal agreement that the importance of making
21 sure that we have a statewide system of
22 non-polluting school buses is crucial to every
23 community in the state.
24 Now, when you're talking about mass
25 transit for bus systems overall, we still believe
2182
1 we can be moving forward through the MTA, our
2 largest regional mass transit system, to move
3 them to non-polluting buses with not necessarily
4 having to go through this bond act.
5 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
6 Mr. President, will the sponsor
7 continue to yield?
8 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
9 yield?
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Of course, sorry.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: So the last
14 question on this. The bond act also provides
15 about $400 million for upgrading buildings to
16 reduce their carbon output.
17 But NYSERDA also has a similar
18 program, with an annual budget of 1.7 billion
19 annually. Wouldn't it make sense to just direct
20 NYSERDA, which has a much larger fund -- that's
21 funded by ratepayers, actually, not by taxpayers.
22 You know, they can return more in the form of tax
23 credits and so forth. Wouldn't it just be easier
24 and better for them to just take a fraction of
25 the percentage and have NYSERDA do it?
2183
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: So the money
2 through the bond act is for capital. And the
3 programs through NYSERDA are not generally
4 capital funds, they are reimbursements to -- or
5 grants to personal homes or businesses.
6 So I don't think that the question
7 is could one replace the other, because the truth
8 is when you look at our problems of
9 overcarbonization, it's buildings. Buildings and
10 vehicles, those are our two major problems that
11 we need to be addressing.
12 And NYSERDA itself has a report
13 showing that we really need $10 billion a year of
14 capital commitments to our climate change agenda
15 to meet our targets. So I don't think talking
16 about reducing one activity versus another is the
17 direction the state needs to go. I would
18 actually argue we need to be moving further
19 faster.
20 And I wish that we had more capital
21 money to put in through both sets of programs to
22 accomplish our goals. Because truthfully, the
23 faster we move to electric vehicles, the faster
24 we move to decrease carbonization coming out of
25 our buildings, the sooner we get to the solution
2184
1 to the problem Jim Tedisco and I were discussing
2 last night: What are we doing about the price of
3 gas?
4 Because here's the truth. The price
5 of gas is going to keep going up as we have to
6 get off of it, and we are being held basically
7 hostage by dictators of oil companies around the
8 world, and oil countries around the world, and so
9 we need to get off of fossil fuels as fast as
10 possible. We need to be making these
11 investments, because that's the only way we
12 actually are going to not just save money for our
13 consumers, but also save our planet.
14 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
15 on the bill.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Borrello on
17 the bill.
18 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thanks once
19 again, Senator Krueger.
20 You mentioned that this whole idea
21 of going to electrification of everything is
22 going to be the solution to us decarbonizing.
23 But I would argue that's just not the case.
24 Because the reality is New York is importing more
25 and more power than it ever has from other
2185
1 states. In fact, where I'm from, most of the
2 electricity -- which used to come locally, that
3 was produced in New York State by two NRG plants,
4 both of which were supposed to be repowered with
5 natural gas, which is a much larger -- much
6 smaller carbon footprint than coal, those plants
7 have been shut down and we're now importing power
8 from a place in Homer City, Pennsylvania, which
9 is a 60-year-old dirty cut power plant -- dirty
10 coal power plant.
11 So I would argue that instead of
12 repowering the plant, which was promised by
13 Governor Cuomo and then rescinded, it would have
14 meant a much smaller carbon footprint. But
15 there's more and more issues like this, because
16 every day we are building new transmission lines
17 to import power from largely coal plants. So
18 really what this is is it's not actually an
19 attempt to really decarbonize New York, it's just
20 a shift where the carbon's being produced, where
21 the pollution and the greenhouse gas emissions
22 are coming from.
23 But we're told this is global
24 climate change, so does it matter if the carbon
25 emissions are being done in New York or in
2186
1 neighboring Pennsylvania or Ohio or Ontario or
2 wherever else that we're importing power from --
3 a record amount of power. So really what this is
4 is a shell game. It's a shell game to pretend
5 that we're doing something about climate change.
6 And the fact is we don't have the
7 resources to increase our electricity capacity in
8 New York State. We've shut down nuclear plants,
9 we've stopped the import of natural gas and the
10 powering of natural gas, which is abundant in
11 New York State. Which, again, would have been a
12 great way -- a great bridge fuel to bridge us to
13 eventually, when the technology catches up, to
14 something that's completely renewable.
15 But we're not doing that. We're
16 just going to pretend, and we're going to keep
17 importing more power and we're going to ramp up
18 places like Homer City, Pennsylvania, that is
19 spewing pollution into the air, to supply the
20 power that's needed largely in New York City.
21 Because where I live, 88 percent of our power is
22 already clean and green and renewable, because we
23 have a lot of hydroelectric power. We're the
24 third-largest producer of hydroelectric power in
25 America, as a matter of fact.
2187
1 We're not the problem, quite
2 frankly, where I live. The problem is in
3 New York City. So either you're going to use
4 less electricity or you're going to continue to
5 pretend that things like this, this $4.2 billion
6 bond act, is actually going to do something about
7 it. Unfortunately, it's not. But we can
8 continue to pretend we're doing something about
9 it.
10 Thank you, Mr. President.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Martucci on
12 the bill.
13 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
14 Mr. President. On the bill.
15 So I just want to take a moment to
16 call out several provisions in this bill that
17 weren't praised. One of them is, at long last,
18 the repeal of the DOT right-of-way fee.
19 You know, broadband connectivity is
20 a struggle for so many people, so many people in
21 my district. And the pandemic has highlighted a
22 lot of things, but certainly the importance of
23 being able to work and attend school from home.
24 And in the places that I represent and in many
25 places that my colleagues represent, broadband
2188
1 still remains a tremendous struggle today.
2 And the DOT right-of-way tax that
3 was imposed by our former governor was one of the
4 biggest obstacles to finally closing this gap and
5 addressing the problem in a big way.
6 I'm a businessperson, and
7 businesspeople in business study market trends
8 and look at signals to really determine where
9 they're going to make investments. And in this
10 case, in the past, this state and this body have
11 sent a very clear market signal that broadband
12 expansion wasn't wanted here, by taxes like this.
13 So today I'm glad because all of our
14 constituents are going to win. We're going to
15 walk this back, and we're going to finally put
16 our money where our mouth is and head in the
17 right direction.
18 The Republican Conference all voted
19 against this provision when it was originally
20 presented in this body several years ago, and
21 since it was enacted we've been speaking out
22 strongly against this. So I guess today it sort
23 of is a degree of vindication. Nothing says mea
24 culpa like repealing a provision of the law. So
25 that is certainly a big win.
2189
1 I want to thank my colleagues on
2 both sides of the aisle. I want to thank
3 Governor Hochul for finally getting behind this
4 repeal and getting it done today, and certainly
5 the tremendous work of Senator O'Mara and
6 Senator Ortt in particular, who have been leading
7 on this issue.
8 You know, finally, I want to thank
9 the broadband providers and the advocates because
10 I don't think we'd be here today if it wasn't for
11 key people educating us on this issue. I know
12 when I came here, I knew very little about it.
13 And specifically Dave Lamendola --
14 who I know many of us know -- from Verizon has
15 been leading on this issue, helping folks in this
16 body understand how important it is that we take
17 these steps to repeal this. So Dave deserves a
18 great deal of credit.
19 And others, folks like Paul Zuber
20 from the Business Council, other pro-growth
21 groups that have been calling out what a problem
22 this is. So I think that that's certainly -- all
23 very good things.
24 I also want to say that the labor
25 language included here, these are great things.
2190
1 The expansion of PLAs and prevailing wage,
2 particularly to the green energy projects -- huge
3 step in the right direction. We should have been
4 doing this a long time ago. I'm glad to see
5 we're doing it today.
6 And while I do associate myself with
7 the comments of my colleagues with respect to
8 some problematic issues -- certainly a couple of
9 concerns that are sort of very technical concerns
10 about some of the things presented in this
11 bill -- I do like the overall direction of the
12 environmental bond act, the fact that we're
13 making strong strides to protect the environment
14 and protect open space, and in particular taking
15 big steps to protect our environment, though I do
16 hold some concerns with other provisions of this
17 bill in that respect.
18 So, you know, I guess I'll end by
19 saying lobbyists oftentimes get a bad name around
20 here, and rightfully so. However, in this
21 particular case there have been several leaders
22 not only in this chamber but outside of this
23 chamber that have brought us to this point, and
24 this is a really great point to be at with
25 respect to broadband buildout and labor issues
2191
1 and environmental issues.
2 So I thank you for your indulgence,
3 Mr. President.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Oberacker.
5 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. I was wondering if I could ask
7 one more question on the Part MMM to the bill's
8 sponsor.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
10 yield? Senator Krueger, do you yield?
11 SENATOR KRUEGER: Excuse me,
12 Mr. President. Of course.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
15 So again, just so that I'm clear,
16 this question specifically deals with the PLAs.
17 So on the part that we're talking about, this
18 bill seems to steer an incredible amount of money
19 towards projects with PLAs. Can you tell me what
20 percentage of the construction workforce is or
21 would be unionized?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
23 Mr. President, it's not a requirement of the
24 bill, so we really don't know how much of the
25 workforce will end up being unionized.
2192
1 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
2 Through you, Mr. President, would
3 the sponsor continue to yield.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
5 yield?
6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes indeed.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
9 So given that 75 percent of New York
10 State construction is nonunion, how would the PLA
11 requirement impact local jobs?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm sorry,
13 Mr. President, can you show us where there's a
14 PLA requirement in the bond -- excuse me, in the
15 broadband proposal?
16 SENATOR OBERACKER: So yeah,
17 through you, Mr. President. Through the
18 Infrastructure Investment Act, it requires a
19 projected labor agreement for all projects. And
20 so I'm just wondering -- my concern is that is
21 this going to again, in some way, shape or form,
22 either slow down and/or impact cost-wise the
23 projects moving forward?
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Could you cite
25 the page and the section to us? Because we're
2193
1 not sure the reference is to the broadband
2 section of the bill. Sorry.
3 SENATOR OBERACKER: So through you,
4 Mr. President, where I'm looking at, this would
5 be in the Part AA, the Infrastructure Investment
6 Act, and in Part OO, in the Clean Water, Air and
7 Green Jobs Bond Act.
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 So the first reference is actually
11 to the section that applies to design-build, not
12 to the broadband. So let's answer that first.
13 So if in design-build, if the
14 project is more than $25 million, they would have
15 to use a PLA. Otherwise, they could not use the
16 design-build option for themselves.
17 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you.
18 That's all I have, Mr. President,
19 thank you.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Are there any other
21 Senators wishing to be heard?
22 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
23 closed.
24 I'm sorry, Senator Mattera, would
25 you like to speak on the bill?
2194
1 SENATOR MATTERA: Yes. No,
2 actually I'd like to speak -- yes, speak on the
3 bill. No questions.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mattera on
5 the bill.
6 SENATOR MATTERA: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 I'm very, very pleased to be here
9 today about this bill, especially about the Part
10 AA with the project labor agreement language.
11 You know, me as a labor leader for
12 20 years, being 41 years in Plumbers Local 200,
13 project labor agreements are so, so important for
14 all workers.
15 You know, one thing I've been --
16 when I go to projects, I see out-of-state
17 workforce coming into our area and taking our
18 jobs away. And I always say local jobs for local
19 people and how important that is, because that
20 helps a whole local economy for all of us -- for
21 people -- for our members and people to go spend
22 money locally.
23 This is so, so important that this
24 project labor agreement is in this bill, and I am
25 very, very proud to say that I am in favor and I
2195
1 vote aye.
2 Thank you.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Are there any other
4 Senators wishing to be heard?
5 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
6 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
7 Read the last section.
8 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
9 act shall take effect immediately.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
11 (The Secretary called the roll.)
12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Cleare to
13 explain her vote.
14 SENATOR CLEARE: I rise in support
15 of TED Part Q, which contains the sum and
16 substance of my bill, S8083A, which ensures that
17 incarcerated individuals are provided with the
18 affirmative opportunity to secure nondriver
19 DMV-issued I.D. cards before they are released.
20 The purpose of incarceration is
21 rehabilitation and growth. Our entire system
22 should be directed towards those moral ends.
23 What my bill and Part Q does is proactively solve
24 a persistent challenge for those reintegrating
25 into society, supplying them with a state-issued
2196
1 I.D.
2 When you are released from
3 incarceration, often the world around you has
4 changed significantly. You now have new
5 challenges in front of you, obligations to family
6 and friends, and sometimes post-release
7 supervision to follow. Navigating the hurdles to
8 obtain a nondriver I.D. can be a difficult task
9 for anyone to accomplish, let alone for someone
10 leaving prison with only the clothes on one's
11 back.
12 If we are interested in moving
13 individuals to successful reentry, it only makes
14 sense that we provide them with a state-issued
15 I.D. Who better than the state to identify an
16 individual?
17 An I.D. is needed for so many things
18 in life -- housing, employment, medical care,
19 banking, access to social services, and more.
20 The bill provides -- this bill provides a basic
21 step towards a healthy new beginning for released
22 individuals, and I am elated that we are passing
23 it.
24 Thank you to my floor counsel,
25 Adriele Douglas. Thank you so much for your hard
2197
1 work on this, and all the other staff for making
2 it your mission to get this done.
3 Thank you.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Cleare to
5 be recorded in the affirmative.
6 Senator Ryan to explain his vote.
7 SENATOR RYAN: Thank you,
8 Mr. President.
9 So many great things in this section
10 of the budget, including the wetlands protections
11 that we have been looking for in New York State
12 for a generation. So congratulations to the hard
13 work that went into pushing this across the line.
14 Really happy to see that the WIRED
15 Broadband Act was included in this section of the
16 budget. Over 100,000 New Yorkers have no
17 consistent or no ability to connect to internet.
18 Two hundred thousand New Yorkers have internet,
19 but it's not high speed. It's the sort of, you
20 know, old-fashioned internet that doesn't work on
21 most days.
22 But with the infusion of federal
23 money, we have a chance to get it right. This is
24 our one shot. We've spent a lot of money over
25 the last few years on trying to improve
2198
1 broadband. Guess what? It really hasn't moved
2 the needle too much.
3 So with this, we're able to get a
4 good, consistent connectivity for all
5 New Yorkers. It's a comprehensive plan, and it's
6 utilizing the federal money that's come through
7 the stimulus program, a match with the state
8 funding in a manner that's going to be both
9 efficient and transparent.
10 The proposal creates the Advisory
11 Council on Broadband Development, so it's just
12 going to work it through. We're not just saying,
13 you know, here's over a billion dollars, go have
14 at it. We've done that over the last three
15 gubernatorial terms, and it hasn't worked.
16 So it's going to be more than
17 delivering us broadband. We're going to have
18 hidden benefits in there, right? So there's
19 transparency in there, and we're going to connect
20 a lot of homes to broadband. But we're going to
21 make sure that we can also inject high-road
22 economic principles into that.
23 You know, what does that mean?
24 Well, we're going to use the broadband money as
25 part of training the workforce for tomorrow.
2199
1 High-tech jobs are necessary to connect the
2 broadband.
3 This doesn't just happen in an
4 unregulated place; this happens through
5 regulations. So there will be labor standards
6 and wage protections associated with this act.
7 So when this money flows through, it won't be
8 part of the race to the bottom, where we pay
9 people the least amount possible to get the work
10 done, and they may go back to another state --
11 then we're left with a bad product and no trained
12 workforce.
13 So this bill is very comprehensive.
14 It has reporting requirements. There's municipal
15 authorizations, there's wage standards. And the
16 best part about it is the full prevailing wages
17 for both private and private municipal, no
18 exceptions. We're going to have, at the end of
19 this, a much better broadband connectivity,
20 whether you live in a rural area that has no
21 broadband or you live in an urban area where it's
22 spotty.
23 This is the step forward. This is
24 one part of the great budget. And Mr. President,
25 I'm proud to cast my vote in the affirmative.
2200
1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Ryan to be
2 recorded in the affirmative.
3 Senator Harckham to explain his
4 vote.
5 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you very
6 much, Mr. President.
7 I join colleagues in saying there
8 are a lot of good things in this bill. I just
9 want to focus on a couple. And I want to thank
10 my friend and colleague Senator Jackson for
11 reminding me I did indeed have two hours of sleep
12 and said 2005 and 2008 instead of 2025 and 2028.
13 So best-laid plans.
14 I want to thank my colleague for a
15 spirited debate and for asking some really
16 pointed questions. And it's true, we have had
17 deficient maps for the last 20 years, and that is
18 a point of this entire bill.
19 The question is, can we afford to do
20 this? The real point is we cannot afford not to
21 do this. Our freshwater bodies are compromised.
22 It's impacting the water quality. My district,
23 as I mentioned before, which provides half the
24 drinking water for New York City, our
25 municipalities are now paying $65 million to
2201
1 recreate wetlands to protect these reservoirs
2 that nature used to do.
3 So I'm just so thankful for
4 colleagues supporting this measure. Also
5 thankful for Chairman Englebright, in the
6 Assembly, and for the Governor and everyone's
7 teams coming together on this.
8 The other thing I want to touch on
9 are the issue of the electric buses in the bond
10 act. This is a huge win, especially for the
11 kids. Kids who ride school buses breathe in
12 15 times more harmful pollutants than people who
13 don't ride school buses.
14 Oftentimes this impacts our
15 environmental justice communities, which have
16 much higher instances of asthma, respiratory
17 disease, heart disease -- and it's because of the
18 diesel fumes and the particulates.
19 But I think we also need to look at
20 jobs. This is not just about improving our
21 environment and our climate, which obviously we
22 are striving to do. We are going to be creating
23 good-paying jobs right here in New York State.
24 And electronic technology is cheaper. It is now
25 cheaper to produce a kilowatt of electricity
2202
1 through wind and solar than it is through
2 carbon-based technologies.
3 So there are a lot of wins in this
4 budget, and I'm really proud to support this
5 section of it. I vote aye.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Harckham to
7 be recorded in the affirmative.
8 Senator Skoufis to explain his vote.
9 SENATOR SKOUFIS: Thank you very
10 much, Mr. President.
11 No budget is perfect. This budget's
12 not perfect. Any of my previous nine budgets
13 I've been in the State Legislature and have
14 worked on have not been perfect. And we can
15 nitpick all day: This item, that item is not
16 what I want it to be, it does not go far enough.
17 And we've heard a lot of that over the past
18 24 hours or so.
19 But let's not lose sight of the fact
20 that this budget will transform the lives of
21 millions of average New Yorkers. And
22 New Yorkers, Americans, citizens do not expect
23 government to solve all their problems. They
24 don't want government to solve all their
25 problems. But they do want government to be
2203
1 responsive, and they want government to try and
2 help them a little bit with their problems.
3 And so what this budget does will
4 allow millions of New Yorkers to get better home
5 care, to get better childcare, to get for the
6 first time UPK, four-year-olds attending
7 prekindergarten. Billions of dollars will be
8 coming to repave roads and repair bridges in the
9 Hudson Valley. We are going to be providing
10 relief at the pump, providing relief with income
11 tax cuts, providing relief with property tax
12 rebates.
13 These are meaningful, meaningful
14 items for millions of New Yorkers that helps
15 restore the trust in state government that's so
16 desperately needed.
17 And so I'm proud to support this
18 bill. I'm proud to have the Majority Leader
19 leading the way, as usual, to make sure that
20 we're getting these important items across the
21 finish line.
22 But I want to really focus on one
23 that has not been talked about all too much, and
24 that is we have for the first time a provision in
25 this budget that will audit every single economic
2204
1 development tax incentive in New York State.
2 And I and many colleagues -- this
3 side of the aisle and that side of the aisle --
4 every year have gone on and on, rightfully so,
5 about how we spend billions and billions and
6 billions of dollars on projects and other
7 incentives that are not held to account. We have
8 no idea whether we're getting a return on
9 investment. We have no idea whether those are
10 worthwhile investments.
11 And for the first time now, we are
12 going to know what works, what doesn't work, and
13 fix what doesn't work on behalf of our taxpayers.
14 I want to thank my colleagues for
15 their support around that provision. I want to
16 thank the Majority Leader for an outstanding
17 budget that will impact, in a very meaningful
18 way, millions of New Yorkers.
19 I vote aye. Thank you.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Skoufis to
21 be recorded in the affirmative.
22 Senator May to explain her vote.
23 SENATOR MAY: Thank you,
24 Mr. President.
25 I also will vote aye on this bill.
2205
1 And I want to single out two components of it
2 that I think are really important.
3 Senator Ryan talked about the
4 broadband. I want to focus on one piece of that
5 WIRED Act that supports municipal broadband,
6 because this is something that has helped
7 communities around the country, around the world,
8 to not only assure access but to promote
9 prosperity in those communities. And I hope that
10 we will get more municipal broadband in this
11 state as a result of this bill.
12 And I want to congratulate Senator
13 Harckham on moving the wetlands bill to this
14 point, because this is absolutely critical.
15 Three hundred years ago, on the shore of Onondaga
16 Lake there was enormous wetland. It was a scene
17 of incredible biodiversity, and it was the center
18 of one of the greatest civilizations on earth,
19 the Haudenosaunee Confederacy.
20 When Syracuse grew up in that area,
21 the first thing that people did was drain the
22 swamp. And honestly, Syracuse, much as I love
23 the city, I think we have regretted it ever
24 since. Because we still have flooding in those
25 areas. We still have a whole region around the
2206
1 lake where it's hard to build, it's hard to
2 develop that area because the ground just isn't
3 appropriate to it.
4 And if we had -- if the original
5 developers of Syracuse had recognized the value
6 of those wetlands, I think our city would look
7 different, our region would have a different kind
8 of ecosystem and much more resilience than we
9 have now. So this bill is going to help us
10 understand the value of wetlands and make sure
11 that we preserve them.
12 So I'm again grateful to
13 Senator Harckham, to the leadership for making
14 this happen. I vote aye.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator May to be
16 recorded in the affirmative.
17 Senator Mannion to explain his vote.
18 Senator Mannion not to explain his vote.
19 SENATOR MANNION: I will, thank you.
20 Thank you, Mr. President. I appreciate --
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mannion
22 will explain his vote.
23 SENATOR MANNION: Yes, I must have
24 winked or something there, so ...
25 I just want to say this, that in the
2207
1 area that I represent, we have substantial
2 flooding in an area that is -- in tributaries
3 that feed the Erie Canal and the surrounding
4 region. It's a beautiful area. It's a wonderful
5 area. I was proud to advance a bill last year,
6 and signed into law, creating the Flood
7 Mitigation Task Force. And I am hopeful that
8 many of the dollars that are secured, either in
9 the clean water section or within the
10 environmental bond act, goes to helping the good
11 people of Cross Lake and the Seneca River to make
12 sure that we protect them in every way that we
13 can.
14 I proudly, for this reason and
15 others, vote aye. Thank you, Mr. President.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mannion to
17 be recorded in the affirmative.
18 Senator Ramos to explain her vote.
19 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 You know, it's not just the wetland
22 maps that were wrong, it's also the flood maps.
23 And that was a hard-learned lesson by my
24 neighbors in East Elmhurst back in Queens.
25 Hurricane Ida really took a toll. It was also
2208
1 the epicenter of the epicenter of the pandemic.
2 And seeing that we are actually
3 allocating funding for our school districts to
4 have some wastewater infrastructure is actually
5 going to go a long way to helping protect my
6 neighbors and their homes. We need all the flood
7 protection we can get.
8 And, you know, overall the reason
9 I'm voting aye on this bill is because we are
10 making a priority out of the infrastructure
11 upgrades that need to be made. And I think that,
12 you know, most if not all of us should be in
13 agreement on that. We are in a desperate need
14 for a Green New Deal, for green jobs, and they
15 have to be done the right way.
16 It's not only the infrastructure
17 that keeps us connected, our roads and bridges,
18 but it's also broadband. And doing these from a
19 point of view with project labor agreements,
20 making sure that we are creating good jobs, union
21 jobs, which we know are the best vehicle to the
22 middle class, is critical for environmental
23 justice communities like the ones I represent in
24 the Northwest Queens waterfront.
25 So I'm thankful for my leader, I'm
2209
1 thankful for my colleagues. We should be very
2 proud of what we were able to do in this TEDE
3 bill. And I vote aye, Mr. President.
4 Thank you.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Ramos to be
6 recorded in the affirmative.
7 Senator Hoylman to explain his vote.
8 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you,
9 Mr. President. I rise to explain my vote in the
10 affirmative.
11 This bill contains two items that
12 are of particular importance to my constituents
13 and the arts community in my district. It's a
14 $220 billion budget, but it's sometimes the small
15 things that matter most to our constituents.
16 And as the Senator who represents
17 Broadway and many independent music venues like
18 the Blue Note, Smalls, The Village Vanguard and
19 Birdland, I'm very happy to say that this
20 legislation is going to be creating the Small
21 Business Seed Funding Grant Program.
22 And we've secured language in this
23 bill that will ensure that independent arts
24 workers, like touring musicians, are able to
25 meaningfully access this funding.
2210
1 During the first year of the
2 pandemic, the federal government wisely expanded
3 unemployment insurance to cover independent
4 contractors and gig workers, which was the only
5 way many musicians and artists in my district --
6 the original gig workers -- were able to survive.
7 Unfortunately, that program ended
8 last year. And while many independent
9 contractors in other businesses were able to get
10 back to work through virtual means or other
11 adaptations to safely operate in COVID, those in
12 the entertainment industry, and particularly
13 touring musicians, continued to face the
14 devastating effects of the Delta and Omicron
15 waves.
16 Unlike many other industries, if a
17 single member of a band gets COVID, the rest of
18 the band cannot simply pick up the slack. One
19 person getting COVID can derail an entire tour,
20 resulting in lost revenues and unrecoverable sunk
21 costs. That's why we needed special recognition
22 for these workers.
23 This bill is going to allow
24 independent arts contractors, including touring
25 musicians, to recover costs incurred and revenues
2211
1 lost due to COVID-19 through January 1, 2022.
2 We've also secured commitments from
3 Empire State Development to clarify and
4 streamline requirements for the existing Small
5 Business Recovery Grant Program, which we
6 established last year, to ensure that touring
7 musicians and other arts workers can access that
8 funding.
9 So I want to thank Majority Leader
10 Andrea Stewart-Cousins, Shontell Smith,
11 Emma Wallach, and Eric Katz for their assistance
12 in securing this lifeline, this lifeline for my
13 constituents.
14 I also want to thank the Hochul
15 administration and Empire State Development for
16 working with us to find a solution for these
17 affected workers, and mostly the Music Workers
18 Alliance in my district, who led a really
19 heroic -- and noisy -- advocacy campaign, as
20 musicians are wont to do.
21 This budget will finally expand the
22 Entertainment Subsidy Assistance Demonstration
23 Program also, which helps entertainment workers
24 afford their COBRA health insurance payments
25 during episodic employment.
2212
1 This is something we've all long
2 advocated for, and I'm grateful to be able to
3 enact this expansion today with my affirmative
4 vote.
5 Thank you, Mr. President.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoylman to
7 be recorded in the affirmative.
8 Senator Comrie to explain his vote.
9 SENATOR COMRIE: Good morning.
10 Thank you, Mr. President.
11 I rise today to vote aye on the TEDE
12 bill, and I want to thank the leader and her
13 team, Shontell Smith and Eric Katz and all of the
14 analysts and all of the staff that made this
15 happen. There are so many great things in there,
16 from expanding CHIPS -- where when I first came
17 here and Senator Kennedy came to me and said that
18 we need to take care of upstate roads -- and
19 we're expanding CHIPS funding, we're expanding
20 other funding of the highways upstate to allow
21 for more tourism, to allow to continue the
22 design-build opportunities, which has been a
23 great cost saving for agencies across the state
24 and for New York City to mandate that.
25 To extend the investment for our
2213
1 entertainment industry in New York for three
2 years so that they can have an opportunity to do
3 long-term planning. To keep up with other states
4 that are now trying to create entertainment
5 opportunities and building film studios all
6 across the country, it's important that we make a
7 long-term commitment to that industry that is
8 expanding upstate as well and developing growth
9 and opportunity.
10 To doing things to make sure that we
11 create other opportunities such as the waiving of
12 the I.D. fees that Senator Cleare spoke about,
13 the gender X option that we're going to allow
14 people to truly express themselves throughout
15 this state. There are so many other things.
16 But I just want to talk in detail a
17 little bit more about what Senator Skoufis said,
18 which is known as the Database of Deals bill that
19 we worked on together. I want to thank
20 Senator Skoufis, Senator May, and the entire
21 Democratic delegation, because there's something
22 that we need to do as a legislative body, which
23 is to make sure that the money that these state
24 agencies are spending, tens of billions of
25 dollars, are clearly spent in a way that we can
2214
1 understand it and interpret it -- not two years
2 later, not after the fact, but actually during
3 the quarter that they're spending this money.
4 It's important that we understand
5 how all these state agencies are spending the
6 money with MWBE, with local contractors, with
7 in-state contractors, how they're doing the
8 things that they're spending tens of billions of
9 New York State dollars for our New York State
10 residents, and oftentimes we have no contact or
11 no understanding until way after the contract was
12 let and we find out that these contracts were let
13 to people that have no concern or no compassion
14 or no real purpose in really delivering a quality
15 product to New York State.
16 So I'm glad that this Database of
17 Deals bill, as they call it, will open up all
18 these state agencies to show procurement, to show
19 the MWBE stats, to show the ability to make sure
20 that the state is being responsible in their
21 procurement, that their procurement is going to
22 be New York-based as much as possible, and that
23 we are going to have these deals that we can
24 understand clearly where we're spending our
25 dollars in New York State.
2215
1 So I want to thank the leader for
2 understanding that. There's more that we need to
3 do in these areas, but this is a great start to
4 show real transparency on how we're spending our
5 public dollars.
6 Mr. President, I proudly vote aye.
7 Thank you.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Comrie to
9 be recorded in the affirmative.
10 Senator Kaminsky to explain his
11 vote.
12 SENATOR KAMINSKY: Thank you,
13 Mr. President.
14 It's been a long time since I've
15 been in this room with so many colleagues, and
16 it's really great to see everybody.
17 The first thing that captured my
18 attention and stunned me, which I hadn't seen
19 before, was Senator Tedisco and Senator Hoylman
20 sitting next to each other. And I see the
21 makings of a sitcom, like a buddy sitcom.
22 (Laughter.)
23 SENATOR KAMINSKY: It's kind of
24 like we could solve the world's problems if -- I
25 don't think they're finishing each other's
2216
1 sentences yet, but we'll get there.
2 (Laughter.)
3 SENATOR KAMINSKY: I rise today to
4 speak my vote in the affirmative --
5 (Inaudible; laughter.)
6 SENATOR KAMINSKY: -- to speak in
7 the affirmative for this budget. As the chair of
8 the EnCon Committee, I'm very proud of the
9 environmental leaps that this budget helps our
10 state take. We're going to expand our brownfield
11 program, do historic wetlands protection -- thank
12 you, Senator Harckham for your work on that.
13 We've been wanting to do that for a long time.
14 But I'm really most excited about
15 the bond act. If you rewind just about
16 14 months, there was no talk about the bond act.
17 It wasn't in the Executive Budget, it wasn't
18 anywhere. And this Senate conference came
19 together to say that the needs, the
20 infrastructure needs of our state are too great,
21 both in terms of building in resiliency that our
22 communities need -- and as someone who lives in a
23 community that's an island, where the ocean met
24 the bay in the middle of Hurricane Sandy and
25 everything was underwater, boy, do we know how
2217
1 important that is.
2 But also in terms of fighting
3 climate change, this bond act is really going to
4 do so much. This conference put it on the map,
5 we got it into the budget last year, it's an even
6 increased one next year. When you think of the
7 needs of our state, from the Adirondacks down to
8 Queens, they're staggering. We still have lead
9 pipes in far too many places. We still have
10 low-lying areas that are prone to flooding where
11 important infrastructure is. Everyone thinks the
12 good old days were all so good, but I'd like to
13 go back to some of those engineers a hundred
14 years ago and ask them why building the Long
15 Island Train Station one foot above sea level was
16 a good idea. But there are all these things that
17 we have to change.
18 The fact that we're going to be
19 spending hundreds of millions of dollars to help
20 convert school buses to electric buses I think is
21 great. We're making that commitment today. And
22 of course like Senator Ramos said, we're going to
23 be doing this by supporting great jobs in areas
24 that are going to help propel our middle class
25 and move our state forward. So this bond act is
2218
1 really good news.
2 But as my aunt used to like to say,
3 it's the little things that count. And I'm
4 really excited about a little study in this
5 budget about a bridge in my area called the Loop
6 Parkway. And the Loop Parkway Bridge was built
7 in the Great Depression, and it's part of FDR's
8 economic plan. But because the parts are a
9 hundred years old, they get stuck in the "up"
10 position a lot.
11 But here's the crazy part. Even
12 when it's working on a summer's Saturday, for
13 example, when thousands of cars are headed to the
14 beach, when Joe wants to go in his boat, the
15 bridge opens, once an hour, and thousands of
16 people watch Joe go through in his boat, and then
17 it closes and everyone moves on with their life
18 again.
19 We can do better. We're going to
20 study that and figure out how to create more
21 modern infrastructure to better the lives of
22 Long Islanders.
23 So for big reasons and small, I'm
24 voting yes on this budget, grateful to be part of
25 a conference that keeps moving our state forward.
2219
1 And it's good to see everybody again, and I look
2 forward to seeing the sitcom play out.
3 (Laughter.)
4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kaminsky to
5 be recorded in the affirmative.
6 Senator Kennedy to explain his vote.
7 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very
8 much, Mr. President.
9 First of all. I rise to support
10 this section of the bill. I'm very excited about
11 so many things in this budget and look forward to
12 discussing them further with all of my
13 colleagues.
14 I rise to speak on a number of items
15 in this budget. First let me start by thanking
16 Majority Leader Andrea Stewart-Cousins for her
17 leadership and her due diligence; of course the
18 team for all of their hard work; our colleagues
19 throughout the course of the last several months;
20 Deputy Leader Gianaris for his leadership on the
21 floor and in conference.
22 I want to recognize Governor Hochul
23 for her partnership in getting us to this point.
24 We are celebrating a lot in this
25 budget. And in this particular portion of the
2220
1 bill that deals with so many initiatives as it
2 pertains to transportation -- and as the
3 Transportation chair, I've got to tell you, I am
4 really, really enthused by the deliverables that
5 we are all going to bring to our communities
6 across New York State and be able to transform
7 our state from top to bottom.
8 The initiatives that have already
9 been talked about are great. I want to highlight
10 a couple that I think are historic and
11 transformative. We're talking about a
12 multi-billion-dollar bond act, the environmental
13 bond act. Included in that bond act are the
14 electrification of our school buses that are
15 going to transform all of our communities and
16 make New York State the leader in the nation as
17 it pertains to not only environmental justice,
18 but social justice.
19 School buses today, these diesel
20 buses are one of the leading pollutants in our
21 nation. And New York State is saying not only
22 are we going to play a leading role in
23 transforming the school buses from diesel to
24 fully electric, but we're going to expedite that
25 time frame. So school districts by 2027 --
2221
1 within five years -- are going to be necessitated
2 to purchase electric school buses.
3 They can get a two-year waiver. But
4 by 2035, all school buses in the State of
5 New York are going to be removed from the carbon
6 footprint. That is worth celebrating,
7 Mr. President.
8 And we're putting our money where
9 our mouth is. In this environmental bond act,
10 $500 million, half a billion dollars, to do so.
11 Plus the resources brought to the table through
12 OGS and NYSERDA that are going to help these
13 school districts with the infrastructure
14 necessary to help them meet these goals.
15 So we're helping not only deliver
16 from an ideological perspective and a financial
17 perspective, but we're providing the
18 infrastructure behind the scenes to get our
19 school districts where they need to be.
20 With three children in school today
21 that ride the buses on a daily basis, this is
22 personal for me as a parent as well. So I
23 understand the needs of our families across this
24 state. And I talked about not only the
25 environmental justice, but the social justice,
2222
1 because families like mine -- particularly
2 families from disadvantaged communities in urban
3 communities across our state that have seen
4 health disparities take shape, particularly
5 communities of color, because of a lack of
6 attention to address these issues dealing with
7 pollutants from our diesel engine school buses --
8 are having a major victory in our communities
9 there as well, Mr. President. So I'm excited
10 about the social justice component here as well.
11 Speaking of social and environmental
12 justice, another victory here is the brownfields
13 agreement. The brownfields agreement that ends
14 at the end of this year without this agreement
15 would have caused New York State to move
16 backwards. It would have caused development to
17 cease in communities like mine out in Buffalo,
18 and other urban communities across this great
19 state, that have seen an industrial past leave
20 wake to a polluted infrastructure in various
21 aspects of our communities that developers won't
22 touch unless we make it economically and
23 financially feasible for them to do so.
24 The brownfields agreement that was
25 put in place between our Majority and the
2223
1 Governor and the Assembly is going to allow for
2 development to continue to move forward to
3 transform our community from brownfields to
4 greenfields. You take a look at a district like
5 mine, Mr. President, there's more brownfields in
6 my district than any other district in the state.
7 This will have a direct impact on development in
8 Western New York and in every area of New York
9 State where we're taking back our industrial past
10 and looking forward to a bright future.
11 So with that -- there's so much more
12 that I could talk about --
13 THE PRESIDENT: But you won't.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: -- I'm going to
15 yield my time, Mr. President.
16 Thank you, and I vote aye.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kennedy to
18 be recorded in the affirmative.
19 Senator Reichlin-Melnick to explain
20 his vote.
21 SENATOR REICHLIN-MELNICK: Thank
22 you very much, Mr. President.
23 I rise to support this bill for
24 4.2 billion reasons, because this bill makes
25 absolutely groundbreaking investments in our
2224
1 economy and in the critical fight against climate
2 change.
3 Last night we voted on some
4 important short-term help for people in New York
5 State -- tax relief that's going to benefit
6 middle-class and working families. And today we
7 are making major long-term investments that will
8 benefit those same families and all New Yorkers
9 in the years and the decades to come.
10 While there are so many challenges
11 that New York faces right now, the largest
12 challenge that we face and that our country and
13 our world face over this century is the threat
14 from human-caused climate change. Temperatures
15 are going up, sea levels are rising, plant and
16 animal species are going extinct at an alarming
17 rate. Our weather is more extreme than it's ever
18 been in the past. And this has costs for our
19 state and our communities.
20 This budget bill that we're passing
21 today makes an investment in that future. And I
22 hope that voters will see that as well and vote,
23 come November, to pass this environmental bond
24 act that we are adopting in this bill,
25 4.2 billion.
2225
1 And that can go for so many
2 different projects: $1.1 billion for flood
3 reduction; $650 million for open space and land
4 conservation, which complements the other part of
5 this bill, the wetlands protection that we've
6 just passed, which is going to make a huge
7 difference in reducing flooding in our
8 communities that see hundred-year floods every
9 couple of years these days. These are the sorts
10 of investments we should be making.
11 Hundreds of millions of dollars to
12 adapt our school buses for a clean energy future;
13 $650 million for water-quality improvements --
14 these are the sorts of things that voters sent us
15 up here to do.
16 And I am really excited that we are
17 taking action and, with the support of people at
18 the polls this November, we'll be able over the
19 coming years to start using this money to improve
20 our state, to make a real difference in the fight
21 against climate change, and to get New York
22 towards a more sustainable future.
23 I proudly vote aye.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator
25 Reichlin-Melnick to be recorded in the
2226
1 affirmative.
2 Senator Stec to explain his vote.
3 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
4 Mr. President. I rise to explain my vote.
5 And while unfortunately there's too
6 much bad policy in this bill for me to be able to
7 support it with a yes vote, there are three items
8 in this budget bill that I advocated for that I
9 want to highlight.
10 I want to thank my colleagues for
11 including in this bill Lake Placid -- World
12 University Games coming up in January of next
13 year. We made a change in this to allow
14 out-of-state medical licensure issues to be
15 cleared up so that these athletes can have --
16 from around the world can have their medical
17 providers here. It was a nice easy fix, but I'm
18 glad it's included in the budget.
19 The other two I think are a little
20 more significant and certainly important in my
21 district. The Hudson River Black River
22 Regulating District. When I was in local
23 government, the FERC federal government -- there
24 was a ruling that required the state, these
25 counties, to be paying hundreds of thousands of
2227
1 dollars a year towards the regulation of this
2 district in taxes. The state should have been
3 paying. We've advocated for that for many, many
4 years, written letters to several colleagues in
5 here that have worked alongside us. That is
6 going to improve five counties' situations.
7 Warren County, Washington County,
8 Saratoga County, Albany County, and Rensselaer
9 County collectively were paying hundreds of
10 thousands of dollars a year that they shouldn't
11 have had to. The state is going to pick that up
12 in this bill. I'm thankful for that.
13 And then lastly, the elimination of
14 the fiber tax. I've talked on this floor several
15 times the last couple of years, written letters,
16 as have many of us. But that is going to really
17 make a big difference.
18 In the three years that this tax has
19 been in place, it's collected about $8 million,
20 which is a pittance compared to the $220 billion
21 that we're about to spend here this week. But
22 that $8 million was holding up building out
23 broadband in the rural parts of the state, and
24 that was a big issue certainly in my district and
25 a lot of upstate districts. The elimination of
2228
1 that fiber tax is long overdue. I'm glad that
2 it's in this budget.
3 So again, there's some good things
4 in this bill, but unfortunately, as I mentioned
5 previously, I won't be able to support the bill
6 because of the other things that are in the bill.
7 But I want to thank my colleagues for the work
8 that was done on these three areas that are
9 important to the North Country.
10 Thank you.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stec to be
12 recorded in the negative.
13 Senator Gaughran to explain his
14 vote.
15 SENATOR GAUGHRAN: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 There is a lot of good in this
18 bill -- broadband, making sure that we have labor
19 standards for the men and women that are out on
20 the frontlines in a whole variety of areas.
21 But I want to particularly just talk
22 about the environmental bond act. I want to
23 thank Senator Kaminsky for his leadership on this
24 issue.
25 This is a big deal. This is going
2229
1 to transform our state, and this is going to
2 transform, I believe, the area I represent, a
3 district on Long Island. Because we move forward
4 with our Climate Act, and now we're making sure
5 that we're putting our money where our mouth is
6 to make this actually real: $1.1 billion for
7 flood risk reduction. Storm resiliency all over
8 a lot of my district across the Long Island
9 Sound. Protecting open space on Long Island.
10 There still are a lot more parcels that we need
11 to preserve.
12 And of course climate change is not
13 only great for our future, but it is also going
14 to be a huge economic engine as we move forward
15 to have some really great jobs.
16 And of course $650 million for water
17 quality improvements, not just to make sure that
18 our drinking water is safe but also, again,
19 across the Long Island Sound and the harbors that
20 I represent, we could actually now give
21 communities money for storm resiliency as well as
22 to make sure that stormwater runoff is no longer
23 getting into our waterways.
24 So Mr. President, I vote in the
25 affirmative.
2230
1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gaughran to
2 be recorded in the affirmative.
3 Announce the results.
4 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
5 Calendar 749, those Senators voting in the
6 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Gallivan,
7 Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza, Oberacker,
8 O'Mara, Ortt, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec and
9 Tedisco.
10 Ayes, 48. Nays, 15.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is passed.
12 Senator Gianaris.
13 SENATOR GIANARIS: Just to give
14 members a sense of schedule at this point, we're
15 going to break for respective party conferences
16 and return. These will be brief conferences.
17 We'll be returning at 1 o'clock to continue our
18 work with another couple of bills.
19 Please call on Senator Lanza.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lanza.
21 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
22 there is an immediate meeting of the Republican
23 Conference in Room 315 of the Capitol.
24 THE PRESIDENT: There's an
25 immediate meeting of the Republican Conference in
2231
1 Room 315 of the Capitol.
2 Senator Gianaris.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: And there will
4 be an immediate Democratic conference virtually.
5 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
6 immediate meeting of the Democratic Conference
7 virtually.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: The Senate
9 stands at ease.
10 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate stands
11 at ease.
12 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
13 at 11:59 a.m.)
14 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
15 1:26 p.m.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
17 return to order.
18 Senator Gianaris.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
20 at this time we're going to call two committee
21 meetings in Room 332. First, the Finance
22 Committee, followed immediately by a meeting of
23 the Rules Committee.
24 THE PRESIDENT: There will be a
25 meeting of the Finance Committee, and then
2232
1 followed by a meeting of the Rules Committee in
2 Room 332.
3 SENATOR GIANARIS: The Senate
4 stands at ease.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate stands
6 at ease.
7 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
8 at 1:27 p.m.)
9 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
10 1:46 p.m.)
11 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
12 return to order.
13 Senator Gianaris.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President, I
15 believe there's a report of the Finance Committee
16 at the desk. Can we take that up, please.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
18 read.
19 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger,
20 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
21 following bill:
22 Senate Print 8007C, Senate Budget
23 Bill, enacts into law major components of
24 legislation necessary to implement the state
25 health and mental hygiene budget for the
2233
1 2022-2023 state fiscal year.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
3 the report of the Finance Committee.
4 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
5 of accepting the report of the Finance Committee
6 signify by saying aye.
7 (Response of "Aye.")
8 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
9 (No response.)
10 THE PRESIDENT: The report is
11 accepted.
12 Senator Gianaris.
13 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President, I
14 believe there's a report of the Rules Committee
15 at the desk. Can we take that up.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
17 read.
18 THE SECRETARY: Senator
19 Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules,
20 reports the following bill:
21 Senate Print 8748, by Senator
22 Jackson, an act to amend the Civil Service Law,
23 the State Finance Law, and the Retirement and
24 Social Security Law.
25 The bill is reported direct to third
2234
1 reading.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
3 the report of the Rules Committee.
4 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
5 of accepting the report of the Rules Committee
6 signify by saying aye.
7 (Response of "Aye.")
8 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
9 (No response.)
10 THE PRESIDENT: The report is
11 accepted.
12 Senator Gianaris.
13 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's now move
14 on to Supplemental Calendar B, please.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
16 read.
17 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
18 750, Senate Print 8007C, Senate Budget Bill, an
19 act to amend the Public Health Law.
20 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
21 message of necessity at the desk?
22 THE PRESIDENT: There is a message
23 of necessity at the desk.
24 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
25 the message of necessity.
2235
1 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
2 of accepting the message of necessity please
3 signify by saying aye.
4 (Response of "Aye.")
5 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
6 (Response of "Nay.")
7 THE PRESIDENT: The message is
8 accepted, and the bill is before the house.
9 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
10 can we lay that aside temporarily. We're going
11 to take up the second bill first.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Lay the bill aside
13 temporarily.
14 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
15 751, Senate Print 8748, by Senator Jackson, an
16 act to amend the Civil Service Law, the State
17 Finance Law, and the Retirement and Social
18 Security Law.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
20 message of necessity at the desk?
21 THE PRESIDENT: There is a message
22 of necessity at the desk.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
24 the message of necessity.
25 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
2236
1 of accepting the message please signify by saying
2 aye.
3 (Response of "Aye.")
4 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
5 (Response of "Nay.")
6 THE PRESIDENT: The message is
7 accepted, and the bill is before the house.
8 The Secretary will read.
9 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
10 751, Senate Print 8748, by Senator Jackson, an
11 act to amend the Civil Service Law, the State
12 Finance Law, and the Retirement and Social
13 Security Law.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
15 section.
16 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
17 act shall take effect immediately.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
19 (The Secretary called the roll.)
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jackson to
21 explain his vote.
22 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
23 Mr. President.
24 My colleagues, I rise to support
25 this bill. I'm a proud sponsor of this
2237
1 legislation, S8748, with my counterpart in the
2 New York State Assembly, Assemblymember Abbate.
3 The state workforce has been poorly
4 compensated while dedicating themselves to
5 serving New York communities. This bill is
6 necessary to implement the term of collective
7 bargaining agreements between the executive
8 branch of the State of New York, the Police
9 Benevolent Association of New York State, which
10 represents SUNY University Police, EnCon Police,
11 Park Police, and Forest Rangers, and also the
12 State of New York and District Council 37, which
13 represents the New York State rent-regulated
14 services unit.
15 This legislation highlights the
16 power of unions in negotiating successful pay
17 benefits for their members. As a labor person
18 myself, and as chair of the New York State Senate
19 Civil Service and Pension Committee, it was
20 important to me to sponsor this bill. Today
21 New York shows its commitment to the public
22 servants across our state, and I'm happy to bring
23 this forward in support of state union workers.
24 To quote the State PBA president,
25 Manny Vilar, "This legislation will greatly
2238
1 assist our efforts to recruit and hire the
2 brightest and best diverse officers to ensure our
3 members are reflective of the wonderful mosaic
4 that New York is."
5 Mr. President, I vote aye.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jackson to
7 be recorded in the affirmative.
8 Senator May to explain her vote.
9 SENATOR MAY: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 I also proudly vote aye and
12 support -- am grateful to my colleague Senator
13 Jackson for bringing this bill.
14 SUNY Police work really hard, and
15 sometimes in very difficult conditions, and I'm
16 pleased to support them. But in particular, I
17 want to support the Park Rangers, whose jobs have
18 gotten infinitely harder in the last few years as
19 the numbers of people using our parks have
20 increased exponentially.
21 I was paddling on a lake in the
22 Adirondacks and started talking to a ranger who
23 was trying to put out an underlying fire that had
24 been set as a result of somebody making a
25 campfire and not putting it out properly. And
2239
1 she said she was amazed that she had time to even
2 do this work because normally she was being
3 called to rescue people who had gotten themselves
4 into trouble as they were hiking in the
5 Adirondacks. She said that her job had just
6 become almost a nightmare because the pressures
7 were just enormous.
8 And so we must pay them what they
9 deserve and support them in their contract. So I
10 am very happy that we've done this in this
11 budget, and I vote aye.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator May to be
13 recorded in the affirmative.
14 Senator Hinchey to explain her vote.
15 SENATOR HINCHEY: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 And I thank the sponsor for bringing
18 this bill forward. Our Park Police, our Forest
19 Rangers, our SUNY Police do such a service in our
20 communities.
21 But I have the immense privilege of
22 representing much of the Catskills, one of the
23 most beautiful places on earth -- also, one of
24 the places that has seen the most increase in
25 visitors over the last two years. Which is
2240
1 wonderful; we love people in our community, we
2 love sharing our incredible open spaces.
3 However, oftentimes a lot of people
4 may not know how to access our open spaces and
5 our trails. They often come for a hike with
6 flip-flops or try to go to a watering hole that
7 is actually traversing down a mountain. If you
8 are watching from our district, you know exactly
9 where I'm talking about.
10 And it's our Forest Rangers who are
11 saving lives, who are rescuing people, who are
12 making sure that people can access the outdoors
13 safely. But they have really been undervalued,
14 and this pay bill is critically important to not
15 just show that we care about them, we respect
16 them, we value the work that they are doing, but
17 that way they can also recruit to fill their
18 ranks. Because a lot of people are seeking
19 employment elsewhere, as opposed to going to the
20 jobs that are protecting our environment, which
21 dovetails with a lot of the really important work
22 that we are doing in this chamber.
23 So I thank the sponsor for bringing
24 this forward. This is an incredibly important
25 bill. And I'm really proud to vote aye.
2241
1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hinchey to
2 be recorded in the affirmative.
3 Announce the results.
4 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 63.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is passed.
6 Senator Gianaris.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Okay,
8 Mr. President, can we go back to Supplemental
9 Calendar A and take up Calendar 750, please --
10 I'm sorry, 748. I apologize.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Calendar Number
12 748, Senate Print 8001A, Senate Budget Bill, an
13 act making appropriations for the support of
14 government.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
16 message of necessity at the desk?
17 THE PRESIDENT: There is a message
18 of necessity at the desk.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
20 the message of necessity.
21 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
22 of accepting the message please signify by saying
23 aye.
24 (Response of "Aye.")
25 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
2242
1 (Response of "Nay.")
2 THE PRESIDENT: The message is
3 accepted, and the bill is before the house.
4 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside.
6 Senator Gianaris.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's move to
8 the controversial calendar, please.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
10 ring the bell.
11 The Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 748, Senate Print 8001A, Senate Budget Bill, an
14 act making appropriations for the support of
15 government.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator O'Mara.
17 SENATOR O'MARA: Yes,
18 Mr. President, thank you. If Senator Krueger
19 would yield for just a couple of questions on
20 this.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Will the sponsor
22 yield?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR O'MARA: Senator Krueger,
2243
1 there's a couple of line items in here dealing
2 with redistricting -- one an amount for LATFOR, I
3 believe, and another, a $2 million line, for the
4 Independent Redistricting Commission that frankly
5 failed to do its work that it was supposed to do
6 under the Constitution of New York State.
7 What is the $2 million appropriation
8 for the Independent Redistricting Commission for?
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: So my
10 understanding is that money is for any kind of
11 litigation that may have to be dealt with and
12 paid for involving redistricting. And there
13 obviously is litigation going on right now.
14 And that there is also the
15 allowability of continued payment for independent
16 commissioners, but with the determination being
17 made not as a given at this time that they would
18 be paid, because they might not be asked to do
19 any work, because they might have completed or
20 failed to do their work already. But they might
21 be assigned to do additional work. So some of it
22 might be available for salary and administrative
23 expenses for staff related to such functions.
24 SENATOR O'MARA: Okay. Thank you
25 for that.
2244
1 Mr. President, if the Senator will
2 continue to yield.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
4 yield?
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
6 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR O'MARA: At this point,
8 yes, there is litigation pending regarding the
9 redistricting plan. However, the Independent
10 Redistricting Commission has not been named in
11 that lawsuit. So are -- is the portion of this
12 that could go to legal fees going to be used to
13 represent the Senate and/or the Assembly in
14 that -- in the pending case right now where they
15 are parties to it?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: No. I believe
17 that would have to be other funds. It is quite
18 possible that this money would not be needed, in
19 which case it wouldn't be spent.
20 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you. That's
21 all I have.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Lanza.
23 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you,
24 Mr. President. Would the sponsor yield for some
25 questions.
2245
1 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2 yield?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Sure.
4 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. Through you.
7 During COVID an eviction moratorium
8 came into effect in the State of New York, and
9 many people -- through either need or
10 otherwise -- relied upon that eviction
11 moratorium. And rents have been unpaid and
12 backing up and backing up.
13 And we're coming out of that now,
14 and as we know, unfortunately, there are many and
15 will be many more eviction procedures.
16 Does this budget include any
17 additional funding for housing courts so that
18 they will be in a position to deal with those?
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
20 Mr. President, no, there is no additional money
21 for housing court in this bill. There are other
22 funds to support avoiding evictions by having
23 supplemental rent payments available in a
24 different bill.
25 It is true that now that the
2246
1 official emergency period is over, we are seeing
2 a growth in the number of eviction cases being
3 brought. Although depending on who you talk to,
4 they are not as many as we anticipated or they
5 are shockingly large numbers.
6 But the courts did not ask us for
7 additional funds for housing court.
8 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
9 would the sponsor yield.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
11 yield?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR LANZA: Through you,
15 Mr. President.
16 Does this budget provide any
17 additional funding for technology upgrades for
18 New York City housing courts in order to enable
19 tenants to participate in remote proceedings at
20 the courthouse?
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: There is funding
22 for technical upgrades by the courts. New York
23 City's housing courts would be eligible to apply
24 for some of that funding.
25 But I don't know if there's any
2247
1 specific proposals before the court
2 administration at this time.
3 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
4 would the sponsor yield?
5 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
6 yield?
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
8 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR LANZA: Through you,
10 Mr. President. Could you tell us the amount of
11 that funding and whether or not that is
12 additional funding over last year?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm being told it
14 is the same amount as last year. And they're
15 checking what that amount is for us.
16 I do also, though, in response to
17 the earlier question about the growing number of
18 evictions, want to point out that there is
19 additional funding in this budget to cover legal
20 services representation for tenants in housing
21 court. And the City of New York also has
22 expanded -- specific to New York City,
23 obviously -- its funding for legal representation
24 of people at housing court.
25 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
2248
1 would the sponsor yield.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
3 yield?
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR LANZA: So whatever the
7 amount is, it is not an increase over last year.
8 Could you tell us whether or not
9 there is additional funding to enable community
10 justice centers to hear housing court cases in
11 order that court overcrowding might be
12 alleviated?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
14 Mr. President, the Office of Court Administration
15 did not ask us for additional funds for any new
16 technical improvements to the courts beyond what
17 they were already working on.
18 And we don't believe they've asked
19 us for additional authority to expand housing
20 court sites to other courts.
21 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
22 would the sponsor yield.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
24 yield?
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
2249
1 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR LANZA: Through you,
3 Mr. President. It has been widely reported and
4 we all know that our court system in this state
5 are just -- you know, is being stretched to the
6 breaking point. And I think everyone can agree
7 that there are insufficient numbers of
8 Supreme Court justices in New York.
9 Does this budget do anything to
10 address that problem, either by adding new
11 Supreme Court justices or by proposing an
12 amendment to the State Constitution that would
13 allow more Supreme Court justices than the
14 Constitution presently allows?
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Through you,
16 Mr. President. So last year we did take action
17 to expand the number of Supreme Court justices by
18 14, and this year's budget provides the funding
19 to make sure that the 14 are in place and paid
20 for.
21 So yes, there's a growth of 14
22 Supreme Court judges.
23 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
24 would the sponsor yield.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2250
1 yield?
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR LANZA: Through you,
5 Mr. President. So to be clear, we're not going
6 beyond the original 14 that were approved last
7 year.
8 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes. We
9 processed the authorization last year, and this
10 year they will be in place.
11 We would need additional legislation
12 to further increase the number of Supreme Court
13 judges -- which my colleague might wish to
14 sponsor.
15 SENATOR LANZA: Mr. President,
16 would the sponsor yield.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
18 yield?
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
20 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR LANZA: Through you,
22 Mr. President, I do sponsor such legislation.
23 And the point I'm trying to make clear is that
24 that legislation does not exist in this piece of
25 the legislation. Is that true?
2251
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Correct, it is
2 not in this budget.
3 SENATOR LANZA: Thank you,
4 Mr. President. And thank you, Senator Krueger.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Are there any other
6 Senators wishing to be heard?
7 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
8 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
9 Read the last section.
10 THE SECRETARY: Section 5. This
11 act shall take effect immediately.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
13 (The Secretary called the roll.)
14 THE PRESIDENT: Announce the
15 results.
16 THE SECRETARY: In relation to --
17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoylman to
18 explain his vote.
19 SENATOR HOYLMAN: Thank you,
20 Mr. President. Thank you to my colleague
21 Senator Krueger for leading this.
22 I just wanted to let my colleagues
23 know that there was a recent report by the
24 New York City Bar Association and the Fund for
25 Modern Courts exposing the disproportionate
2252
1 negative impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on the
2 Family Court in New York City. Among the
3 critiques of the report, the author stated that,
4 quote, The caseload is far too large to be
5 handled by the 56 statutorily authorized Family
6 Court judges alone. There are currently 56
7 statutorily authorized Family Court judgeships in
8 the city, which was last increased in 2014 and
9 remains, quote, inadequate to the meet the
10 demand, according to the report.
11 So I want to let my colleagues know
12 that today I've introduced legislation to
13 increase the number of statutorily authorized
14 judges to 60 to help address this crushing
15 caseload in Family Court, increasing the number
16 of Family Court judges in New York City from 56
17 to 60.
18 I vote aye. Thank you.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hoylman to
20 be recorded in the affirmative.
21 Announce the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar 748, those Senators voting in the
24 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Gallivan,
25 Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Martucci, Oberacker,
2253
1 O'Mara, Ortt, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec,
2 Tedisco and Weik.
3 Ayes, 47. Nays, 16.
4 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is passed.
5 Senator Gianaris.
6 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
7 before we move on, can we take a moment to pause
8 and recognize a distinguished leader in our
9 midst. We have with us the Bronx Borough
10 President, Vanessa Gibson, if we could please
11 extend the courtesies of the house to her.
12 (Standing ovation.)
13 UNIDENTIFIED MALE SENATOR: Wow.
14 (Laughter.)
15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gianaris.
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 Can we now go back and remove the
19 temporary lay-aside on Calendar 750, please.
20 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
21 read.
22 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
23 750, Senate Print 8007C, Senate Budget Bill, an
24 act to amend the Public Health Law.
25 SENATOR LANZA: Lay it aside.
2254
1 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we move to
3 the controversial calendar, please.
4 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
5 ring the bell.
6 The Secretary will read.
7 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
8 750, Senate Print 8007C, Senate Budget Bill, an
9 act to amend the Public Health Law.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator O'Mara.
11 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you,
12 Mr. President.
13 I have a few questions on the bill.
14 I'm not sure if it's going to be Senator Rivera
15 or Senator Krueger. If they would yield for some
16 questions.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
18 yield?
19 SENATOR RIVERA: I will yield,
20 Mr. President.
21 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you,
23 Senator Rivera.
24 Certainly I think as we stand here,
25 hopefully emerging from a global pandemic that
2255
1 has virtually shut down all aspects of our life
2 for a couple of years -- and the main heroes for
3 all of this have been our healthcare workforce,
4 that did an unbelievable service to all
5 New Yorkers and frankly across the nation and
6 around the globe for that.
7 I'm concerned here that the proposal
8 in Part D which established -- would have
9 established the healthcare workforce bonuses, is
10 being denied -- the Governor's proposal is being
11 denied in this bill. Do we -- why is that not
12 being included in this bill?
13 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
14 Mr. President, it is -- as you are well aware,
15 Senator O'Mara, having been here for a couple of
16 years, sometimes the mix-and-match means that
17 things that might -- are supposed to be in
18 certain bills are in other bills. That Part D,
19 which refers to workers' bonuses, is not on this
20 bill. It will be on another bill that we will be
21 debating later today.
22 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
23 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
24 yield.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2256
1 yield?
2 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
3 Mr. President.
4 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR O'MARA: What are the
6 specific reasons for it not being included in the
7 health bill, since it deals with healthcare
8 workers?
9 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
10 Mr. President, are you familiar with the Beach
11 Boys? They have a great song called "God Only
12 Knows".
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR RIVERA: I would suggest --
15 suggest you listen to it. It's a great song.
16 It's a great song, Mr. President.
17 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
18 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
19 yield.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 continue to yield?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Indeed.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR O'MARA: I appreciate that.
25 And that song title goes for a great many things
2257
1 around here.
2 So another area, Part B of the
3 budget that has been rejected from the Governor's
4 budget regarding the Interstate Medical Licensure
5 Compact that would authorize, I think, an
6 easier -- an easier transition in time, such as
7 we had in the pandemic when there's hotspots
8 around the country, enabling healthcare workers
9 to go from point to point.
10 I think most states in the country
11 are engaged in this Interstate Medical Licensure
12 Compact. New York is not. And we certainly need
13 it at times, healthcare workers from across the
14 country to come to New York to assist us when we
15 were suffering more than others at the time. And
16 I think we sent healthcare workers to other
17 states from here.
18 So why are we not proceeding to make
19 that access easier for professionals licensed in
20 other states to do work here?
21 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
22 Mr. President. It was one of many issues that we
23 could not reach three-way agreement on, and so it
24 was ultimately intentionally omitted from the
25 enacted budget.
2258
1 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
2 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
3 yield.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
5 continue to yield?
6 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes, I will.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR O'MARA: Part A, which
9 establishes Nurses Across New York -- I guess
10 NANY is what we're calling it, with only two Ns
11 rather than three, and no references to the nanny
12 state that we live in.
13 But providing for loan repayments
14 for registered nurses, registered professional
15 nurses and I guess this -- the final agreement
16 added to include licensed practical nurses for
17 loan repayments for their education to be in the
18 field.
19 Now, these are healthcare workers,
20 individuals that have already made the decision
21 to go into healthcare, to go into that field,
22 whether they're graduated or just recently.
23 Is this just for students that have
24 graduated that are currently working? Is this
25 for students that are in school now? And is it
2259
1 prospective for encouraging individuals to go
2 into the nursing field, at least, in the future?
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
4 Mr. President. This is a -- by the way, that --
5 the bit about the nanny state, I knew you were
6 going to do that. I just -- I knew you were
7 going to do that.
8 But in all seriousness,
9 Mr. President, this one is a plan that -- I'm
10 sorry, a proposal that is very similar to one
11 that we have on Doctors Across New York. And it
12 would be a fund available to folks who are either
13 currently nurses, folks who will be nurses in the
14 future, who will be LPNs in the future or are
15 LPNs currently, who are -- who can apply to the
16 fund to have the -- to receive scholarships.
17 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
18 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
19 yield.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield? Sponsor, do you yield?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes, I will.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR O'MARA: The -- I wasn't
25 closer on that response, whether this will apply
2260
1 to an individual who is not in nursing school
2 right now, if they go into the school, is this
3 going to be prospective in providing relief to
4 them on their loan repayments for the service
5 they provide?
6 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
7 Mr. President. This one -- and thank you for
8 seeking that clarification, Senator O'Mara. It
9 refers both to individuals who are seeking an
10 education as an LPN or a nurse, et cetera, and
11 are serving in -- and are going to be ultimately
12 doing their service in underserved areas. So it
13 both refers to folks that are going to school as
14 well as folks who are seeking loan repayments,
15 having already gone to school. So both of those
16 things will be from the same fund.
17 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
18 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
19 yield.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR O'MARA: I guess I'm still
25 not clear on somebody that's not in school now
2261
1 and they decide to go to school next year, will
2 they be eligible for this type of loan repayment?
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
4 Mr. President, yes.
5 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
6 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
7 yield.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
9 yield?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes, I will.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR O'MARA: Is there a dollar
13 amount -- I realize this is not an appropriation
14 bill, but is there a limit on the fund that will
15 be available for the forgiveness of these loans?
16 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
17 Mr. President, there is currently $2.5 million
18 that's allocated for this program for this budget
19 year.
20 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
21 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
22 yield.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
24 yield?
25 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
2262
1 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR O'MARA: And what's the
3 ramification if that fund is exhausted?
4 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
5 Mr. President. First of all, that will be a good
6 thing, because that will mean that both folks
7 will be seeking scholarships and will be -- and
8 will have some help in paying back their loans.
9 And it just means that if it is successful --
10 hopefully it is -- next year we come back and we
11 get at least that much, maybe a little bit more.
12 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you,
13 Mr. President. If the sponsor will continue to
14 yield.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
16 yield?
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
18 Mr. President.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR O'MARA: This is helpful
21 for those going into these nursing categories.
22 What if any other items are in this
23 health budget that is going to help with our
24 workforce shortages in the healthcare field?
25 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
2263
1 Mr. President, there is -- as was mentioned
2 earlier, there's a couple of items that are not
3 in this bill that we will be discussing later.
4 And certainly the workforce bonus -- the workers'
5 bonus is one of the ones that we could certainly
6 say it will be helpful in that regard.
7 And also in Part C that allows --
8 that refers to scope of practice, particularly
9 for allowing pharmacists to operate
10 limited-service laboratory services for COVID and
11 influenza tests, that will expand a little bit.
12 Also as far as the elimination of
13 the need for nurse practitioners to file practice
14 protocols with SED, that is something else that
15 is in that part. As well as allowing nurse
16 practitioners to operate without collaborative
17 agreements after obtaining 3600 hours of service.
18 So all those things are -- all those
19 things are in there.
20 And also -- through you,
21 Mr. President, there's also some changes we made
22 to telehealth services in the State of New York.
23 As folks are aware, during the pandemic there was
24 a rise in the use of telehealth, obviously having
25 access to your doctor or other medical
2264
1 practitioner virtually, and we felt that it
2 needed to be expanded. So there are some changes
3 that are included in here to make sure that we
4 can secure access for more folks across the
5 state.
6 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
7 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
8 yield.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
10 yield?
11 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes, I will,
12 Mr. President.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR O'MARA: A couple of those
15 things you mentioned are expansions of current
16 programs for currently active people in the
17 healthcare industry. But I don't see how they
18 help us recruit more people into the healthcare
19 field that are needed.
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
21 Mr. President. Certainly this is not a challenge
22 that is unknown. It is going to be a continuing
23 challenge to make sure that we can hire the folks
24 that we need.
25 I would say that there's also a
2265
1 change that we will discuss later as well that
2 relates to the rise, in particular, for salaries
3 for a particular class of worker in home care
4 services.
5 I would say that this is kind of
6 a -- it's an ongoing challenge. There might be
7 not be enough in this budget, really, to be able
8 to address it. But we do believe that the --
9 what I mentioned earlier, whether it's a scope of
10 practice issue, the bonus that we will discuss
11 later, as well as all of these things -- and as
12 well as the Nurses Across New York program that
13 we just discussed earlier. All those things are
14 kind of pieces in the larger challenge of being
15 able to recruit and keep enough people in the
16 healthcare industry to make sure that we can
17 serve New Yorkers.
18 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you,
19 Senator.
20 On the bill briefly, Mr. President.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator O'Mara on
22 the bill.
23 SENATOR O'MARA: I certainly agree
24 with you, Senator, that we should be doing a lot
25 more for recruiting individuals into our
2266
1 healthcare system to provide these services that
2 are really stretched. And certainly following a
3 pandemic, there's a lot of workforce burnout and
4 concern over losing workforce because of that
5 going forward.
6 I don't see enough being done in
7 this budget -- certainly not in this bill -- to
8 help retain the workers that are there or to
9 encourage more individuals to come into the
10 healthcare field. I know we have another member
11 here that's going to talk a little bit about
12 the -- what I would call an anemic increase to
13 the cost-of-living adjustment for human service
14 programs. Those are the direct service providers
15 and those -- many of those who are on the
16 lowest-paid rungs of providing healthcare
17 services to the citizens of New York, such as our
18 I/DD community, those direct service providers.
19 This really anemic 5.4 percent
20 increase is only slightly more than the 4 percent
21 that we just gave ourselves in the legislative
22 budget. These are workers that continue to earn
23 wages below the minimum wage -- not below the
24 minimum wage, below the fast food worker wage,
25 particularly across upstate New York where those
2267
1 lowest levels will, with this bump, only be up to
2 about $13.90 an hour, over a dollar less than
3 working at McDonald's -- which is I think a huge
4 insult to them, for starters, but a big deterrent
5 for individuals going into these more important
6 fields than flipping burgers at McDonald's.
7 That we should be providing a
8 greater increase to those individuals to be able
9 to encourage that work, reward that work where
10 that field in the industry are losing workers to
11 fast food establishments because of a higher
12 wage, which is just the wrong message to be
13 trying to get individuals to do this very
14 important work.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Borrello.
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
18 Mr. President. Would the sponsor yield for some
19 questions on Part M.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
23 Mr. President, I will yield.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
2268
1 Mr. President, through you.
2 Thank you, Senator Rivera. I think
3 there's one thing you and I both have in common,
4 and that's no love lost of our former governor.
5 And thanks to his poor and often deadly
6 decisions, he came close to decimating the
7 nursing home industry in New York State. And
8 certainly we know he unfortunately killed a lot
9 of those residents with his poor decisions.
10 And then after that, he chose to
11 punish the nursing home industry because of the,
12 you know, of their willingness to stand up and
13 say: What you did was wrong, and it hurt people.
14 So with that being said, there's a
15 lot of ground that has been lost for those that
16 care for our most vulnerable citizens.
17 And this Part M, I'm just -- my
18 first question is, you know, besides these
19 technical amendments, is there any further delay
20 in the implementation of penalties for violations
21 of the minimum staffing law and/or the 740 {sic}
22 revenue law in this budget?
23 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
24 Mr. President, could you repeat the final part of
25 that question? The way that you're talking about
2269
1 Part M --
2 SENATOR BORRELLO: Sure. You got
3 technical amendments here.
4 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
5 SENATOR BORRELLO: Besides that, do
6 we have any further suspension of the fines for
7 violating either the minimum staffing laws or the
8 740 provisions? Because, you know, as you are
9 probably well aware, the Governor did suspend
10 those because of the ongoing pandemic, and then
11 she let those expire recently.
12 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
13 Mr. President. (Pause.) Through you,
14 Mr. President. So there is a small technical
15 change that we did. As we said, there's
16 technical changes all across this part. And this
17 is all in reference to some -- as you said, some
18 proposals that we've approved in the past that
19 relate to nursing homes, since we -- I'm sure
20 that we can all agree that we want to make sure
21 that those that are taking care of our most
22 vulnerable are held to a very high standard.
23 One of the things that we did do is
24 that we prorated the amounts that folks -- so
25 that it would not refer to the entire year if
2270
1 there is a facility that is found to not be in
2 compliance. So there is a little bit of a
3 relief, if you will, for some of these
4 facilities.
5 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
6 Mr. President, will the sponsor
7 continue to yield?
8 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
9 yield?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
11 Mr. President, particularly if he wants to talk
12 about the predecessor, I'd -- I would yield
13 happily always, but particularly in that
14 instance.
15 (Laughter.)
16 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 As you know, these facilities have
20 faced years of Medicaid cuts. Our former
21 governor was very good at cutting those
22 reimbursements. And right now, as a matter of
23 fact, I'd say the average is around $211 per day
24 that we reimburse through Medicaid to nursing
25 homes, which is about a $55 a day shortfall from
2271
1 the actual cost of care, on average.
2 Meanwhile, I will point out that two
3 years after the Medicaid Redesign Team
4 identified -- and I also identified the egregious
5 waste, fraud and abuse in the Medicaid
6 non-emergency transportation funding, where we
7 pay taxi drivers to drive people to non-emergency
8 medical appointments. In my area, just one trip
9 to a doctor's office, paid for by Medicaid, can
10 be up to $350, round trip. So we're paying a
11 taxi driver $350 to drive someone to a doctor's
12 appointment, and meanwhile we're paying a nursing
13 home, with all of the expenses involved in caring
14 for people, $211 a day.
15 My question is, is there anything
16 we're going to do about that? Is there any
17 further funding in this budget to help our
18 nursing homes that are struggling?
19 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
20 Mr. President, yes, there is.
21 First of all, there were cuts that
22 we restored from years past, across-the-board
23 Medicaid cuts that our esteemed predecessor --
24 the departed, as I refer to him -- actually
25 imposed. We got those back, so that is obviously
2272
1 something that is across the board, so it means
2 that it also relates to nursing homes.
3 And there's also -- there is a pool
4 of capital money that we wanted to make sure that
5 there were particular chunks that were available
6 for nursing homes. So there's I believe
7 25 million that is in this budget for capital
8 improvements. There would be a fund that they
9 would be able to get money from to be able to
10 make capital improvements in nursing homes.
11 So both of those things are in this
12 budget.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
14 Will the sponsor continue to yield?
15 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
16 yield?
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
18 Mr. President.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR BORRELLO: So that
21 $25 million for capital funding, how will that be
22 allocated to facilities? Is it available to
23 not-for-profits, for-profits? How is that going
24 to be distributed? How do you qualify for
25 that to access that funding?
2273
1 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
2 Mr. President, there would have to be -- there's
3 a series of criteria that exists. For the most
4 part we're talking about decisions that will be
5 made by the Department of Health, but it
6 refers -- there's particular criteria that is
7 created in this piece of legislation to make sure
8 that all -- that the providers that have the most
9 need get potential access.
10 But the process for the -- so the
11 general criteria is in here. But obviously, as
12 what happens with most of this, we will have to
13 wait for the creation of the regulation after the
14 budget is passed. And we, I can assure you, will
15 be very closely watching the administration and
16 the Department of Health as they develop this --
17 as they implement the criteria to make sure
18 that -- like we will do, for example, when
19 referring to hospitals or other types of health
20 facilities that we create funding for, we want to
21 make sure that as the criteria that we establish
22 in the budget -- once it's approved, as it is
23 implemented, that the money actually goes to
24 those that actually have the most need for the
25 funding.
2274
1 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
2 will the sponsor continue to yield?
3 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
4 yield?
5 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
6 Mr. President.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: So we're talking
9 about capital funding here. As a result -- you
10 know, obviously you say the most need,
11 distressed -- maybe distressed nursing homes.
12 But are they going to have to at least meet a
13 certain minimum standard in order to qualify for
14 money for capital improvements? We're not
15 talking about care, we're talking about capital.
16 You know, in other words, would a
17 one-star nursing home be able to qualify for
18 this? Or would you have to have a certain
19 standard of quality of care before you'd be able
20 to qualify for this money?
21 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
22 Mr. President, it would be -- it would be hard to
23 say. It is likely, possible, that even a
24 one-star facility, as far as quality, at a
25 particular moment would be eligible.
2275
1 I mean, remember, we're talking
2 about projects that are meant to make that
3 facility better able to provide care. So it is
4 possible -- we'd have to look at the particular
5 situation. I couldn't tell you in every single
6 instance. But there's a possibility that there
7 might be a facility that while not having a very
8 high quality rating before the project is done,
9 might actually make the case that the project is
10 necessary to actually help them provide better
11 care.
12 So it is possible that such a thing
13 might happen, but I couldn't tell you in every
14 single instance.
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
16 will the sponsor continue to yield?
17 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
18 yield?
19 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
20 Mr. President.
21 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: That's a fair
23 response. I understand that.
24 But, you know, we have a lot of
25 operators out there that just aren't good
2276
1 financial people, they're not good planners. As
2 a result, they haven't funded reserves to ensure
3 that their facilities are properly maintained.
4 And then we have others that are far more
5 responsible, provide a higher level of care.
6 Are we going to give preference to
7 those who have proven that they are good stewards
8 of their finances and certainly good stewards of
9 the residents that they care for?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
11 Mr. President, what we're talking about is the --
12 those who can demonstrate the most need. So it
13 is possible that -- I mean, let's say the -- and
14 again, I can't make a guarantee one way or
15 another on any of these facilities. But let's
16 say that one of these folks who is, as you said,
17 a good steward, does everything that they need to
18 do. It's quite likely that they're able to find
19 funding elsewhere, you know. But it is also
20 possible that this might actually fit into their
21 plan to provide even better care for their
22 patients.
23 So it is kind of impossible to tell,
24 at this moment, except to say -- to refer -- and
25 I could certainly -- if you'd give me a little
2277
1 bit, I can actually look at the criteria that's
2 actually in the budget proposal that's in front
3 of us and read it to you into the record. But
4 outside of that criteria, we will really have to
5 wait for the Department of Health to actually
6 implement this criteria and actually be able to,
7 you know, to determine on a case-by-case basis as
8 best fits the criteria.
9 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
10 Mr. President, on the bill.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Borrello on
12 the bill.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: First of all,
14 thank you, Senator Rivera, for the engagement.
15 You know, I think there are quite a
16 few industries that were really impacted by this
17 pandemic and also are now being further impacted
18 by mandates that are really going to have a
19 horrible impact not just on the facilities, but
20 on the residents.
21 When you start talking about these
22 minimum staffing levels, this requirement that we
23 have put in place -- that the Governor wisely
24 suspended and then all of a sudden let it go --
25 what it means is, according to the nursing homes
2278
1 associations, is that right now here in New York
2 we're short about 12,000 healthcare professionals
3 just to fill the minimum requirements. Twelve
4 thousand people. Where are we going to get them
5 from?
6 So what's going to happen? Well,
7 they have a requirement, thanks to the State of
8 New York. So they're going to have to shut down
9 beds, shut down wings, shut down facilities.
10 This is not theory. I've spoken with nursing
11 home owners who have said these are tough
12 decisions they're going to have to make.
13 Now, when you live in a rural area
14 like mine, you can't just go down the street and
15 find another facility for your loved one. You
16 may have to take them back into your own home and
17 care for them yourselves. You may have to put
18 them in a facility that's a long way away. For
19 people who have memory care issues, this can be
20 very disruptive, traumatic. And we've really
21 done nothing in this budget to address that, and
22 it's rather tragic.
23 I think we need to really look at --
24 seriously look at who are we trying to satisfy
25 here, who are we trying to please with the
2279
1 740 rule and with these staffing rules? It's not
2 the residents. It's not the people that want to
3 be cared for, that need to be cared for, it's
4 special interest groups.
5 Now, you can dress this up as we're
6 going to provide better care. Yes, we could
7 mandate to have 24-hour service for every single
8 resident in New York State. That would be the
9 absolute best care you could get. And there'd be
10 about five people in New York State that would
11 actually be cared for. That's the problem.
12 We are at a point where we do not
13 have the people to do this. And we've added fuel
14 to that fire by mandating it the way we have.
15 Senator Rivera made a very
16 interesting reference to the Beach Boys song. I
17 have one for you from my favorite old-old-school
18 rap group from the '80s, the Fat Boys --
19 (Laughter.)
20 SENATOR BORRELLO: -- "Crushin'."
21 You're going to be crushin' these folks,
22 unfortunately.
23 So I say that with tongue in cheek,
24 but the reality is this is going to be difficult,
25 and I think we need to find a way to help these
2280
1 people survive.
2 Thank you, Mr. President.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
4 Senator Serino.
5 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. And through you, Mr. President,
7 would the sponsor yield for some questions.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
9 yield?
10 SENATOR RIVERA: Only if I am
11 guaranteed another '80s hip-hop reference,
12 Mr. President.
13 (Laughter.)
14 SENATOR RIVERA: In all
15 seriousness, I do --
16 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR RIVERA: I do yield.
18 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
19 Senator Rivera.
20 My question has to do with Lyme and
21 tick-borne diseases. As you know, I'm always
22 talking ticks. So does this final budget include
23 any new funding for research, education or
24 prevention initiatives to help stop the spread of
25 Lyme and tick-borne diseases?
2281
1 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
2 Mr. President, yes, this is -- just for the
3 record, Senator Serino is dogged when it comes to
4 this, and I appreciate it. Because obviously she
5 cares deeply about this issue. I can tell
6 because she's -- every year, this is something
7 that she cares deeply about.
8 I can tell you -- through you,
9 Mr. President, I can tell Senator Serino that we
10 accepted extensions to various due dates to
11 working groups' and task forces' reports that we
12 have dates. We have mentioned that they're in
13 there, we accepted those. And we accepted an
14 inclusion of roughly $70,000 from the -- that was
15 in the original budget, the Executive proposal,
16 we accepted that.
17 SENATOR SERINO: With no
18 disrespect, $70,000 is absolutely nothing.
19 That's what the Governor puts in every single
20 year. We were up to a million dollars --
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Serino, I'm
22 sorry, are you on the bill?
23 (Overtalk.)
24 SENATOR SERINO: On the bill.
25 Sorry.
2282
1 THE PRESIDENT: On the bill, go
2 ahead. Go ahead.
3 SENATOR SERINO: We were up to a
4 million dollars. We asked for 1.5 million,
5 right? Which I'm sure you heard the other day I
6 said is less than 1 percent.
7 This is a health crisis. I have
8 children coming into my office with arthritic
9 Lyme, adults with neurological symptoms. They
10 can't work anymore. What do we do for them? You
11 know, and I feel like every year we're having
12 this conversation. So I'm just -- I'm really,
13 really disappointed that we're not putting that
14 money in. As I said, we asked for the
15 1.5 million that would really help New Yorkers.
16 And it's not just, you know, upstate
17 New York. All of you guys. Think about it. The
18 past couple of years people have been coming up
19 to the Hudson Valley and to the Adirondacks, and
20 you don't have to be in the woods to get a tick
21 on you, I can tell you that. My husband stood on
22 the blacktop and had four ticks on him in just a
23 matter of minutes. You know? It's horrible.
24 So I'll go on to my next question if
25 I can. Through you, Mr. President --
2283
1 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2 yield?
3 SENATOR SERINO: -- does the
4 sponsor yield?
5 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
6 Mr. President.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR SERINO: Okay. Senator
9 Rivera, does this budget include any funding for
10 the state to undergo a full review of the
11 pandemic response as relates to COVID-19 deaths
12 in the nursing homes or any other
13 pandemic-related actions?
14 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
15 Mr. President, it does not.
16 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
17 Mr. President.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
19 yield?
20 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
21 Mr. President.
22 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR SERINO: Can I ask why not?
24 This -- you know, this is something that I think
25 a lot of us were talking about. The Governor
2284
1 even said that she was open to looking back.
2 You know, you think of any time that
3 we have a tragedy or any kind of a disaster, what
4 do we do? We do an investigation. And I think
5 COVID-19 taught us it's not a matter of if, it's
6 a matter of when. And I just think we owe it to
7 these families, 15,000 families that are waiting
8 for answers. And it's like a real slap in the
9 face for them not to get that.
10 And I know that everybody had -- you
11 know, I know you guys were talking about it too.
12 And I just don't understand why we're not doing
13 that now, when we have the perfect opportunity
14 to.
15 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
16 Mr. President. The reality is that I agree in
17 many instances with my colleague, and this is
18 certainly one of them as it relates to making
19 sure that we have to be able to look back and
20 really have a clear view of what happened or not
21 happened.
22 But I can tell you, as it relates to
23 any type of study, it was not something that was
24 ultimately discussed. Not -- we could not reach
25 a three-way agreement on anything regarding that.
2285
1 But I will tell you that -- through
2 you, Mr. President -- that I certainly am
3 supportive of whatever efforts we can make to
4 make sure that we are clear on where the
5 responsibility lies for things that happened that
6 led to the demise of so many New Yorkers.
7 There's some things that we've
8 already done. We probably should do more, I
9 agree with my colleague on that one. But as it
10 relates to what is included in the budget, it is
11 not something that a three-way agreement could be
12 reached.
13 SENATOR SERINO: On -- on this
14 Mr. President, just --
15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Serino on
16 the bill.
17 SENATOR SERINO: We have to -- no,
18 I still have another question, I'm sorry.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Oh, I'm sorry.
20 SENATOR SERINO: I'm sorry, I said
21 it incorrectly. Just I hope that we'll continue
22 that conversation, because we still have till the
23 end of the year.
24 My other question is, you know,
25 mental health has been a huge topic --
2286
1 Senator Krueger, right, through all our
2 Finance -- the hearings, everything, throughout
3 the budget process. And there was bipartisan
4 agreement that we're in desperate need of
5 services for our children.
6 So how many new residential
7 treatment beds for youth will be created in this
8 final budget, and where are they located?
9 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
10 Mr. President, I do yield. The question was
11 asked. And one second, please.
12 Through you, Mr. President, that is
13 something that is not currently in this bill. It
14 will be discussed later. There's some final
15 details and determinations that need to be made
16 on future bills that will include that
17 information, but it is not in the bill before us.
18 SENATOR SERINO: Mr. President --
19 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
20 yield?
21 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
22 Mr. President.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR SERINO: So we will -- so
25 are there youth beds, then, in another part of
2287
1 the budget, is that what we -- there are? Do we
2 know, is that --
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
4 through you. There will be new beds, but at this
5 time it is not finalized. When it is, we will be
6 able to provide that information. But it is not
7 finalized and not in the bill before us.
8 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
9 Mr. President --
10 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor --
11 SENATOR SERINO: -- will the
12 sponsor yield?
13 THE PRESIDENT: You want the
14 sponsor -- does the sponsor yield?
15 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
16 Mr. President.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR SERINO: So it's not
19 finalized, but is it in another -- because the
20 Governor mentioned that there were going to be a
21 thousand beds for mental health yesterday at the
22 hearing. So did she not have a discussion with
23 you guys? Is it like -- it's something that
24 we're all talking about, and our kids need the
25 help more than ever. So is it going to come up
2288
1 later on this evening where I'll have the
2 opportunity to talk about it again?
3 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
4 Mr. President, we will have -- we will have some
5 numbers. We do not have final numbers at this
6 point.
7 And yes, I was also aware of that
8 wonderful press conference that happened while we
9 were in conference.
10 We do not have final numbers right
11 now, and it is not in the bill before us.
12 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
13 Mr. President, I have one more question.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
17 Mr. President.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR SERINO: Senator Rivera, is
20 there any one-time COVID relief funding in this
21 budget bill, or any others, for adult care
22 facilities and assisted living residences?
23 Because as you know, advocates were pushing for
24 75 million for these facilities -- and that was
25 statewide -- which provide critical care for some
2289
1 of our most vulnerable residents.
2 So just wondering, do we see that
3 anywhere here?
4 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
5 Mr. President, there is -- that 75 million did
6 not make it. However, there is a $1.6 billion
7 pool that they would have access to.
8 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
9 Mr. President, another question.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
11 yield?
12 SENATOR SERINO: So who --
13 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR SERINO: Who else has that
16 pool? Because that could be -- go to a lot of
17 different places. This was going to be
18 specifically for their needs.
19 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
20 Mr. President, it is true that there are -- that
21 it is a lot of different types of facilities --
22 this is what happens when you're old, folks.
23 Look at this. See my glasses up here so I can
24 actually read closer?
25 This 1.6 billion will be available
2290
1 to hospital residential healthcare facilities,
2 adult care facilities, diagnostic treatment
3 centers, children's residential treatment
4 facilities, et cetera, et cetera.
5 So this is Part K. So the full list
6 of those folks who are eligible for that
7 1.6 billion pool is in that part. So it is -- it
8 is true that it is a lot of them, but 1.6 billion
9 is not peanuts. So although the 75 million that
10 is dedicated to them did not make it to the final
11 budget, the enacted budget, there is a
12 $1.6 billion pool that they can have access to.
13 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
14 Mr. President, because I don't know if this --
15 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
16 yield?
17 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
18 Mr. President.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR SERINO: So for the
21 assisted care facilities, would there be a
22 difference in the wording there between
23 not-for-profit and for-profit? Like -- are they
24 all open to that funding?
25 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
2291
1 Mr. President, there is -- both for-profits and
2 nonprofits would both have access to the same
3 pool.
4 SENATOR SERINO: Access to the
5 funding, okay. Because 19 facilities have
6 already closed. So that was my concern, in order
7 to keep them going. And the average person
8 that's in an assisted living facility is 85 years
9 old with multiple comorbidities.
10 So thank you. That's all my
11 questions. Thank you.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Martucci.
13 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
14 Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield for a
15 question? It's on Part DD, so I'm not sure who
16 would -- it's with respect to the human services
17 cost of living.
18 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
19 Mr. President, yes.
20 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Excellent, thank
22 you. Through you, Mr. President.
23 My first question is as I was
24 reviewing the Governor's Executive Budget
25 proposal as well as the one-house budget
2292
1 proposals from both the Senate and the Assembly,
2 the Governor and the Senate proposed a
3 5.4 percent increase. The Assembly, on the
4 contrary, provided an 11 percent increase. I see
5 in the final adopted language here the language
6 is included for a 5.4 percent increase.
7 In my review, it certainly seemed
8 like putting those three documents together, that
9 was sort of maybe a floor, an increased floor.
10 And I was thinking perhaps maybe the sponsor
11 could share a little bit of logic as to how you
12 arrived at that number and why perhaps it wasn't
13 a bit higher.
14 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
15 Mr. President, the reason for the 5.4 -- this was
16 actually the Executive's initial proposal. And
17 although there were different proposals on the
18 table, as we were making decisions towards the
19 end, that is ultimately what we decided on. And
20 we decided to accept the Executive's proposal of
21 just a 5.4 percent COLA for the first year.
22 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Mr. President,
23 will the sponsor continue to yield?
24 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
25 yield?
2293
1 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
2 Mr. President.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you.
5 So I'm sure the sponsor is aware
6 right now inflation is at a 40-year high,
7 7.4 percent, somewhere in around that range.
8 We've heard from countless folks in this field,
9 direct service providers and others that, as my
10 colleague Senator O'Mara called out, are really
11 on the frontlines of healthcare and personally
12 service care, but on the bottom rung,
13 unfortunately, of the pay ladder.
14 Is it your position that a
15 5.4 percent COLA is a raise in a year where
16 there's a 7.4 percent inflation rate?
17 Especially, again, because we're dealing with
18 some of the individuals who are at the very
19 bottom rung of the income ladder and are, again,
20 folks that have not seen an increase, a
21 significant increase in a very, very long time.
22 SENATOR RIVERA: Mr. President,
23 what I am saying is that that is at this point,
24 through the three-way negotiations, the best that
25 we could get.
2294
1 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Will the sponsor
2 continue to yield.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
4 yield?
5 SENATOR RIVERA: Yes,
6 Mr. President.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
9 Senator.
10 So my final question, then, is I'm
11 sure you're aware that the Majority held a
12 hearing that I participated in last year where it
13 brought together, in particular, direct service
14 providers, DSPs, to talk about the staffing
15 crisis that exists in the I/DD community, an
16 insufficient number of qualified folks to provide
17 those critical personal services to individuals
18 with disabilities.
19 Was any of the testimony that came
20 from that hearing with respect to how we solve
21 this workforce crisis taken into consideration
22 during this process in which the 5.4 percent COLA
23 was determined?
24 SENATOR RIVERA: Through you,
25 Mr. President. I would say that in instances
2295
1 like this, certainly everything that we here as
2 policymakers kind of takes -- we take into
3 account as we go into those final negotiations.
4 But sometimes three-way agreements
5 are very hard to reach. The fact that we are
6 here on the, what, eighth day of this month, so
7 just seven days late to the -- to our budget
8 should tell you a little bit about that.
9 And in this case all I can say is
10 that that is ultimately -- all those things might
11 have been in the brains and the minds of all
12 those folks who were negotiating, but ultimately
13 this is the best that we could come up with in
14 this particular situation.
15 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Mr. President,
16 on the bill.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Martucci on
18 the bill.
19 SENATOR MARTUCCI: So I'll start by
20 thanking Senator Rivera for answering my
21 questions.
22 I mean, look, our direct service
23 providers, our DSPs who take care of individuals
24 with intellectual and developmental disabilities,
25 and those that work in human services, have long
2296
1 been neglected in this state. For many, many
2 years they've been neglected. And as a result of
3 that neglect, we found ourselves -- I said this
4 before and I'll say it again right now on this
5 floor -- we've found ourselves on the edge of a
6 cliff. We are not at a crossroads, but the edge
7 of a cliff with respect to how we support
8 individuals in our state with developmental
9 disabilities and others that need these critical
10 human services.
11 And, Mr. President, I don't think we
12 have a greater responsibility than to care for
13 folks like that in our society and make sure that
14 we're doing everything we can to help support
15 them. And these direct services are only as good
16 as the people who provide them. And we're not
17 going to be able to support these individuals
18 that need these services so terribly when the
19 best we can come up with, in a year like this, a
20 year with 40-year record inflation, 7.4 percent,
21 and a year where gas prices are skyrocketing and
22 other things, that we come to the table with
23 5.4 percent.
24 Many of these folks, most of these
25 folks will be making less than they did last
2297
1 year. Senator O'Mara called it out before when
2 he was talking about minimum wage, upstate
3 minimum wage: $13.20. So we'll start by saying
4 this shouldn't be a minimum wage job. The jobs
5 that I'm talking about shouldn't be minimum wage
6 jobs. But unfortunately, many of them are.
7 And then when we add that
8 5.4 percent, we don't even get to 14 bucks. And
9 that's why people aren't choosing this line of
10 work. Not because they don't love it -- they
11 love it a lot. They love the people they care
12 for. The problem is they can make more money
13 virtually working anywhere else. And in a budget
14 flush with cash, we should be working this year
15 to help the people who need the support the most,
16 the people who are at the bottom end of this
17 economic ladder, the people that have served on
18 the frontlines of this pandemic, and the people
19 that are taking care of the most vulnerable in
20 our state.
21 We had an opportunity to do that
22 here. This is a really, really big, big missed
23 opportunity.
24 And the last thing I'll say is this.
25 The reason I'm voting no when the time comes is
2298
1 because I think back to that hearing and the many
2 advocates that I've heard from during this entire
3 process. And when you hear the stories, when you
4 hear the stories of someone that can't go to the
5 bathroom because their DSP didn't show up at
6 their home that day so they're in their
7 wheelchair all day, unable to go to the bathroom,
8 or folks that can't make medical appointments
9 because no one's there to take them -- or the way
10 that lives have been altered because, again,
11 there are an insufficient number of people to do
12 this work -- this was our opportunity to do it.
13 This is a missed opportunity to do it. And I'm
14 terribly disappointed in that, Mr. President.
15 We could have and we should have
16 done better. And I know that my colleagues on
17 this side of the aisle, many of whom I had an
18 opportunity to talk with before I walked in here,
19 feel that exact same way. We're tremendously
20 disappointed in this proposal. And as I said,
21 when the time comes, for that and other reasons,
22 I won't be voting in the affirmative today.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Are there any other
24 Senators wishing to be heard?
25 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
2299
1 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
2 There is a substitution at the desk.
3 The Secretary will read.
4 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger
5 moves to discharge, from the Committee on
6 Finance, Assembly Bill Number 9007C and
7 substitute it for the identical Senate Bill
8 8007C, Third Reading Calendar 750.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The substitution is
10 so ordered.
11 The Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 750, Assembly Print Number 9007C, Assembly Budget
14 Bill, an act to amend the Public Health Law.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
16 section.
17 THE SECRETARY: Section 2. This
18 act shall take effect immediately.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
20 (The Secretary called the roll.)
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mattera to
22 explain his vote.
23 No -- do you want to?
24 SENATOR MATTERA: Yes.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Okay.
2300
1 SENATOR MATTERA: Thank you,
2 Mr. President. On the bill.
3 You know, this is very upsetting to
4 me because all of our healthcare workers that
5 were here for our families for over two years --
6 our heroes were here for over two years and lost
7 jobs. I would have loved to have seen something
8 in this bill that was there for our heroes.
9 They're essential workers. The
10 pandemic hits, they were there for our families
11 and protected us from harm's way. And there is
12 nothing in this bill that protected these people
13 that worked hard for us and with a pandemic that
14 none of us have seen in our lifetime. No
15 unemployment insurance. Where is that in this
16 bill? Any kind of money that they were there for
17 our families, that they were there for these
18 people? Nothing at all.
19 I am here today to say I wish that
20 this was thought out a little bit more for the
21 people, our essential workforce, our heroes. And
22 you know what? They were forgotten about. And
23 I'm going to say it again. Not even unemployment
24 insurance for these people. We lost talent,
25 talent that had to move out of state. Talent
2301
1 that, guess what, had to find a new occupation.
2 Talent that, you know what, that are our
3 neighbors, our friends, our families that lost
4 their jobs.
5 So Mr. President, I will be voting
6 no on this bill for that main reason that, guess
7 what, nobody thought about our heroes. And you
8 know what? They went from heroes to zeroes. But
9 they'll also be our heroes in my heart.
10 Thank you very much.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mattera to
12 be recorded in the negative.
13 Senator Savino to explain her vote.
14 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,
15 Mr. President.
16 I rise in support of this bill. And
17 while it may not be perfect, I've never met a
18 budget bill that is.
19 This is my 18th year in the Senate,
20 my 32nd year in government, starting in the
21 social service field. And I will tell you for
22 the entire time I have served in government, the
23 State of New York has treated the human service
24 sector like crap. It always has. And over the
25 course of my 32 years, we have shifted more and
2302
1 more of the responsibility to the nonprofit
2 sector, which is one of the reasons why they have
3 driven down wages and shifted the burden.
4 And so I won't be here next year,
5 but perhaps some of you who will be here will
6 rethink that. Because that is what's driving
7 people out of this profession. We are forcing
8 people to do this work without adequate
9 compensation. Think about that. If you want to
10 recruit and retain people, think about how to
11 raise their wages and stop starving these
12 nonprofit agencies. Because after all, they're
13 just a pass-through for Medicaid.
14 But there are good things in this
15 budget bill, and I want to focus on one of them.
16 Because you know what? Sometimes when we get
17 here, we forget about the people that helped get
18 us elected. When I ran for office in 2004, I
19 knocked on the door of a family, a young couple,
20 Joe and Rosina Trimarchi. They had a young
21 daughter, her name was Alexia. She was born
22 profoundly disabled. She had spastic quad
23 cerebral palsy, seizure disorder, GIRD, shunted
24 hydrocephalus, and had a G-tube. She lived at
25 home because she had 24-hour care, four
2303
1 independent private-duty nurses, and had that at
2 home with her every day since.
3 She's 21 now, and for the past few
4 years her mother and father have lived in dread
5 fear that the day would come when she would age
6 out of what's being called a medically fragile
7 child. And why is that important? Because
8 private-duty nurses get a much higher rate for
9 medically fragile children than they do for
10 medically fragile adults. And they knew that the
11 day would come when she hit age 23, when they
12 would lose the nurses that they depended on, that
13 made it possible for Alexia to stay at home with
14 her.
15 In this budget bill, in Part O, we
16 fix that. And I want to say a special thank you
17 to Jonathan Lang, because you worked on this for
18 the past couple of years.
19 And so tonight, Alexia, Joe and
20 Rosina Trimarchi and other families around the
21 state who have medically fragile children who are
22 going to age out can sleep peacefully. So if
23 nothing else, we have accomplished something for
24 really profoundly affected children today.
25 I vote in the affirmative. Thank
2304
1 you, Mr. President.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Savino to
3 be recorded in the affirmative.
4 Senator Ramos to explain her vote.
5 SENATOR RAMOS: Thank you,
6 Mr. President. I'm voting in the affirmative,
7 but I really couldn't pass up the opportunity to
8 call out the audacity of, you know, the folks on
9 the other side of the aisle to rise and speak on
10 behalf of workers and better pay. I have never
11 seen them or run into them at rallies for our
12 nurses. I didn't see you guys participate in any
13 of our fight for fair pay for home care workers.
14 I mean, I agree that this bill
15 doesn't go far enough -- not as far enough as I
16 would like. I mean, we just went through an
17 entire pandemic, one of the biggest catastrophes
18 of our lives. My constituents are expecting me
19 to deliver on the New York Health Act. That
20 would help us with Lyme disease and sickle cell
21 and anything you name.
22 That is how we're able to save our
23 health industry, is actually by taking insurance
24 out, insurance companies out of the equation, and
25 at the very least be able to support coverage for
2305
1 all, because it does matter that the person
2 sitting next to us on the bus isn't sneezing.
3 We've learned that now.
4 So I really do think that, you know,
5 with all of the decades of austerity and of
6 disinvestment in our hospital system, even, when
7 the other side of the aisle was in charge of this
8 body -- I mean, in the last 20 years five
9 hospitals have closed in Queens alone. And that
10 was what did us in during the pandemic.
11 So it's going to take years, it's
12 going to take billions of dollars for us to
13 reverse the damage that so many of you have done
14 to our healthcare system. And I really do hope
15 that the day arrives soon where we can make the
16 New York Health Act a reality in New York State.
17 Thank you.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Ramos to be
19 recorded in the affirmative.
20 Senator Rivera to explain his vote.
21 SENATOR RIVERA: Ditto on
22 everything that the sister just said,
23 particularly about the New York Health Act.
24 Just -- I quickly want to say
25 certainly thank you to all my colleagues who
2306
1 chimed in. It is true, Mr. President, that this
2 is far from a perfect budget bill. It's far from
3 a perfect budget. We'll certainly be talking
4 about it more during the day.
5 I would say, however, that there's
6 some steps that are taken here -- the reason why
7 I'm voting in the affirmative on this one,
8 there's some positive steps that we're taking to
9 kind of fix the austerity of the last 10 or 11
10 years. The departed, as I often refer to him,
11 and the administration that he led for so long,
12 took the healthcare system and particularly
13 those -- the healthcare that serves the most
14 vulnerable, whether it's nursing homes, whether
15 it's distressed hospitals, whether it's
16 high-needs communities, and he treated them with
17 disdain.
18 And I'm glad to say that we're kind
19 of turning the corner. But much like a big
20 battleship, you cannot turn it on a dime. And so
21 there's some steps forward that we're having
22 here. I will -- just a couple of things that I
23 want to underline. Unfortunately, the global
24 cap, which is something that we have spoken about
25 many times on this floor as being something that
2307
1 is unnecessary, still is with us. All right,
2 I'll give you one more year. We've got to
3 definitely talk about it.
4 We did, however, come back, as I
5 said, from the across-the-board cuts that we had
6 done before on Medicaid, and we put a little bit
7 more on top of that. We did identify money for
8 distressed hospitals, and we're going to be
9 working in the next couple of bills -- in the
10 next couple of months, I should say, to really
11 make sure that that gets to the right folks that
12 have the most need.
13 We did do some changes on
14 telehealth, which is important.
15 So we've done -- I think,
16 Mr. President, that we have done a little bit of
17 what we need to do to kind of right the ship on
18 this. But it is certainly not the last time that
19 I will be on this floor talking about how we need
20 to really come back from the austerity and the
21 disinvestment that the last decade gave us. And
22 certainly not the last time, Mr. President, that
23 I stand up to talk about how necessary the
24 New York Health Act is. So hopefully we will do
25 that very soon.
2308
1 Thank you, Mr. President. I'll be
2 voting in the affirmative.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Rivera to be
4 recorded in the affirmative.
5 Senator Akshar to explain his vote.
6 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
7 thank you.
8 I certainly wasn't going to rise,
9 but "audacity"? Spare me the theatrics. How
10 about "hypocrisy"?
11 You know what, you have an
12 opportunity to take care and address all these
13 issues that you speak of. It's not here yet, but
14 it will be on our desks: you're going to give a
15 billion dollars to a football team to build a
16 stadium. So you know what? It is hypocrisy at
17 its best to point your finger and blame the
18 people on this side of the aisle for your
19 shortcomings and your failures.
20 You had an -- you've had plenty of
21 opportunities this year, 10 billion extra dollars
22 from the federal government. And you know what?
23 Back at home where I come from, the people that I
24 represent in a very small town, Owego, a
25 15-year-old girl just killed herself. They have
2309
1 30 kids in their school who are on a three-month
2 waitlist to get services, mental health services.
3 So spare me the theatrics. Don't
4 point your finger and blame people on this sides
5 of the aisle. You ought to look in a mirror.
6 Mr. President, I vote no.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Akshar to
8 be recorded in the negative.
9 Senator Mannion to explain his vote.
10 SENATOR MANNION: Thank you,
11 Mr. President. I rise today in support of this
12 bill.
13 I'd like to thank our staff,
14 including Jonathan Lang, Chris Higgins and
15 others. I'd like to thank Senator Rivera and
16 Leader Stewart-Cousins for her advocacy on a
17 number of issues, but one particular issue is the
18 CDPAP program, a consumer-directed program. And
19 what is really important about it being in this
20 bill is that services are provided for people in
21 their homes to make sure that they can live
22 independently, as independently as possible, and
23 stay in their homes without going into a nursing
24 home.
25 And beyond that, what this -- the
2310
1 language assures is that there will be regional
2 providers that know the systems in the area best,
3 that know the networks in the area best, and more
4 importantly know the individuals themselves and
5 their needs because they have a close
6 relationship with them.
7 And as a result, I'm proud to
8 support this part of the bill, but really the
9 bill entirely. It took a lot of work to get to
10 this point. And I can tell you that not just the
11 organizations that are involved but, more
12 importantly, the people who need to be served by
13 these organizations are very appreciative that
14 their regional local providers that know them
15 best will be providing the service.
16 And as chair of the Disabilities
17 Committee, I have to say this. I appreciate the
18 comments that had occurred before. We went over
19 a decade without any cost-of-living adjustment,
20 and last year we fought hard for a 1 percent
21 cost-of-living adjustment. One percent. I held
22 a hearing, as Senator Martucci referenced, and we
23 listened to the concerns of individuals. We
24 listened to the concerns of providers and
25 advocates. And we listened to the concerns of
2311
1 DSPs.
2 We have a vacancy rate that is
3 unacceptable. And we have a turnover rate that
4 is challenging. And the reason it is challenging
5 is because this work is delicate, it's based on
6 trust.
7 So what do we have in this budget?
8 We have historic increases in a cost-of-living
9 adjustment at 5.4 percent. But I, as chair of
10 the Disabilities Committee, Senator Brisport, who
11 is chair of Children and Families, Senator
12 Harckham, who works with the O agencies such as
13 OASAS, and Senator Brouk, who's chair of
14 Mental Health, we will continue to advocate for
15 these agencies. The fight is not over.
16 Remember that this is historic that
17 we have this cost-of-living adjustment. There is
18 much work to be done. We will continue to do
19 that work, and we will be back in the fight.
20 I vote aye.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mannion to
22 be recorded in the affirmative.
23 Senator Krueger to explain her vote.
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
25 Mr. President.
2312
1 There are reasons to vote for this
2 bill, there are reasons to vote against this
3 bill. And I just want to say I appreciate my
4 colleagues' -- on both sides -- passions about
5 this. Because what is clear is that many of us
6 do agree in this room, on both sides of the
7 aisle, that we need to invest more in our human
8 services, in our workers, in the people we all
9 care about, we all have in our districts, and
10 that the state needs to do better.
11 I do believe that on total, this
12 bill is a better bill for health and human
13 services than I have seen in many a year and
14 makes a first down payment on some of the work we
15 have to continue to do.
16 I also respect my colleagues' -- on
17 both sides of the aisle -- passion about how we
18 should get there. One of my colleagues, or more,
19 would argue that we should get there by raising
20 taxes. Other colleagues would argue that we
21 shouldn't pay for football fields. I actually
22 agree with both of you.
23 But we're not there this year, so we
24 can't get it all. And so we need to continue
25 working together even when we get angry at each
2313
1 other, recognizing what we have been able to do
2 and what we have not been able to do, and
3 remembering while this is technically the budget,
4 it's not the end of the process at all.
5 And every single one of us knows how
6 you advocate and you organize to push your own
7 agenda. And that's, by the way, why we all
8 decided to run for office, because we believe in
9 the democratic process. We believe that if we go
10 into government trying to meet the goals we have
11 set for ourselves and what we hear is needed by
12 the people we are trying to represent, we are
13 going to get it better.
14 But we're not done. But again, I
15 just wanted to say, because people are a little
16 hot and tired, that I'm actually happy for the
17 dialogue and even the fight.
18 I vote yes, Mr. President. Thank
19 you.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Krueger to
21 be recorded in the affirmative.
22 Announce the results.
23 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
24 Calendar 750, those Senators voting in the
25 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle,
2314
1 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza,
2 Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt,
3 Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and
4 Weik.
5 Ayes, 43. Nays, 20.
6 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is passed.
7 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
8 reading of the controversial calendar.
9 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
10 just by way of updating our members, there are
11 four remaining bills before the budget is
12 complete. They are in the process of being
13 finalized. So we are going to stand at ease for
14 a short while, while that process gets done, and
15 our colleagues across the aisle have time to
16 conference the bills once they are ready.
17 So the Senate will stand at ease.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
19 stand at ease.
20 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
21 at 3:11 p.m.)
22 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
23 7:13 p.m.)
24 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
25 return to order.
2315
1 Senator Gianaris.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
3 there will be an immediate meeting of the Finance
4 Committee in Room 124.
5 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
6 immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in
7 Room 124.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: The Senate
9 stands at ease.
10 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
11 stand at ease.
12 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
13 at 7:13 p.m.)
14 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
15 7:47 p.m.)
16 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
17 return to order.
18 Senator Gianaris.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
20 there's a report of the Finance Committee at the
21 desk.
22 Please take that up.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
24 read.
25 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger,
2316
1 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
2 following bill:
3 Senate Print 8006C, Senate Budget
4 Bill, enacts into law major components of
5 legislation necessary to implement the state
6 education, labor, housing and family assistance
7 budget for the 2022-2023 state fiscal year.
8 The bill reports direct to third
9 reading.
10 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
11 the report of the Finance Committee.
12 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
13 of accepting the report of the Finance Committee
14 signify by saying aye.
15 (Response of "Aye.")
16 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
17 (Response of "Nay.")
18 THE PRESIDENT: The report is
19 accepted.
20 Senator Gianaris.
21 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's take up
22 the supplemental calendar, please.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
24 read.
25 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2317
1 752, Senate Print 8006C, Senate Budget Bill, an
2 act to amend the Education Law.
3 SENATOR AKSHAR: Lay it aside.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Before we lay it
5 aside, is there a message of necessity at the
6 desk?
7 THE PRESIDENT: There is a message
8 of necessity at the desk.
9 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
10 the message of necessity.
11 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
12 of accepting the message process signify by
13 saying aye.
14 (Response of "Aye.")
15 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
16 (Response of "Nay.")
17 THE PRESIDENT: The message is
18 accepted and the bill is before the house.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: I believe it's
20 laid aside, Mr. President.
21 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is laid
22 aside.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's move to
24 the controversial calendar.
25 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
2318
1 ring the bell.
2 The Secretary will read.
3 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
4 752, Senate Print 8006C, Senate Budget Bill, an
5 act to amend the Education Law.
6 Senator Akshar, why do you rise?
7 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President, I
8 believe there's an amendment at the desk. I
9 waive the reading of that amendment and ask that
10 you recognize Senator Palumbo to be heard.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you,
12 Senator Akshar.
13 Upon review of the amendment, in
14 accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it
15 nongermane and out of order at this time.
16 SENATOR AKSHAR: Accordingly,
17 Mr. President, I appeal the ruling of the chair
18 and ask that Senator Palumbo be recognized.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The appeal has been
20 made and recognized, and Senator Palumbo may be
21 heard.
22 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
23 Mr. President, for allowing me the opportunity to
24 the appeal the ruling of the chair.
25 As we sit here today with the
2319
1 Education, Labor and Family Assistance Budget
2 bill, we do have incorporated within this bill an
3 amendment to -- and further changes to the bail
4 reform statute. Now, this is the third iteration
5 of the bail reform statute, and with respect to
6 germaneness, the proposed amendment will repeal
7 the so-called bail reform statute in its
8 entirety.
9 So when we sit here -- and obviously
10 we're addressing just simply the germaneness, and
11 I'll get to the bill itself in a little bit -- I
12 don't think we can actually say with a straight
13 face that it's not germane to changes to the bail
14 reform statute.
15 And now by way of history, in 2019,
16 in the budget, bail reform was adopted. It took
17 effect on January 1, 2020. And quite clearly, it
18 was dangerous and became more dangerous by the
19 day. And after a significant backlash,
20 significant people were released from custody,
21 people could not have been held on -- for
22 example, manslaughter in the second degree. I
23 was in the other house at the time, during the
24 2019 budget, and I specifically argued that
25 charges such as drunk driving and killing someone
2320
1 were ineligible for bail.
2 So clearly, there was no choice, and
3 the two houses, the two majorities, felt the need
4 to immediately make changes. And they made some
5 not very significant changes. But they did add a
6 few things, like when someone loses their life,
7 the judge could consider bail.
8 But again, having a laundry list of
9 crimes that are ineligible for bail, the judge
10 has no discretion to decide dangerousness, to
11 decide anything of any real significance that
12 would otherwise ensure that person's return to
13 court, because they were specifically ineligible
14 crimes. So that was version two.
15 And then we sit in this chamber
16 today making yet another round of changes,
17 because clearly, in my opinion, and I think in
18 the opinion of most New Yorkers, we are less safe
19 as a result.
20 So when I suggest that this is not
21 only germane, that this bill, repealing it and
22 starting from scratch is the answer, I think it's
23 without question that we all agree. Otherwise,
24 we wouldn't be standing here making yet another
25 change that in my opinion, having read Part UU of
2321
1 this ELFA bill, doesn't do much. In fact, it
2 doesn't come anywhere close to fixing the
3 problem.
4 So the reason why we need full
5 repeal -- and I might add one thing. Because
6 some of my colleagues have said, and publicly,
7 that we're going to go back to the Stone Age,
8 we're going to go back -- this is terrible, that
9 if we want to even consider repealing the current
10 bail statute -- well, actually, we're going to go
11 back to December 31, 2019. We're not going back
12 to the Stone Age, we're going just a few years
13 back. And then we can talk about doing it right.
14 Because there were some changes that possibly
15 could have been done, for sure, but not like
16 this. And not like version two. And, quite
17 frankly, not like the one we're about to debate
18 and vote on today.
19 So with all due respect,
20 Mr. President, I do appeal your ruling. I do
21 believe this bill is certainly germane. And I
22 think if we can get past the germaneness, we
23 should ultimately have a vote on the floor,
24 because that is what we need to do to help our
25 New Yorkers be more safe.
2322
1 Thank you.
2 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you,
3 Senator Palumbo.
4 I want to remind the house that the
5 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
6 ruling of the chair.
7 Those in favor of overruling the
8 chair, signify by saying aye.
9 SENATOR AKSHAR: Request a show of
10 hands.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: We've agreed to
12 waive the showing of hands and record each member
13 of the Minority in the affirmative,
14 Mr. President.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Without objection,
16 so ordered.
17 Announce the results.
18 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 20.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The ruling of the
20 chair stands, and the bill in chief is before the
21 house.
22 Senator Palumbo, why do you rise?
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: Mr. President, I
24 believe there's an amendment at the desk. I
25 waive the reading of that amendment and I ask
2323
1 that you recognize Senator Borrello to be heard,
2 please.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you,
4 Senator Palumbo.
5 Upon review of the amendment, in
6 accordance with Rule 6, Section 4B, I rule it
7 nongermane and out of order at this time.
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: Accordingly,
9 Mr. President, I appeal the ruling of the chair
10 and ask that Senator Borrello once again be
11 recognized.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The appeal has been
13 made and recognized, and Senator Borrello may be
14 heard.
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President, I
16 rise to appeal the ruling of the chair. This is
17 indeed germane because the bill in chief -- the
18 bill at hand amends the Mental Hygiene Law, and
19 both relate to mental health treatment.
20 We should, as legislators, be
21 interested in protecting everyone in New York.
22 We should be concerned about the rise in mental
23 illness that has plagued our state, especially
24 during the pandemic. This amendment would make
25 Kendra's Law permanent. Kendra's Law has been
2324
1 effective but underutilized in addressing those
2 with severe mental illness, while still
3 addressing them during assisted outpatient
4 treatment. It has helped them get the help they
5 need while also ensuring there's not the stigma
6 of getting mental health treatment.
7 We've talked a lot about what we can
8 do to curb violence, and that's what we're going
9 to talk about tonight a little bit more. But
10 those who need help should be able to get that
11 help, and those professionals that can evaluate
12 someone and determine what kind of help they can
13 get, should have that opportunity. And that is
14 what Kendra's Law does.
15 This should not be something that we
16 should have to wring our hands over to ensure
17 that it's going to be renewed, or have it held
18 hostage as part of a negotiation. It should
19 indeed be permanent, and that's what this
20 amendment would do.
21 So, Mr. President, I appeal your
22 ruling, and I hope you rule in my favor.
23 Thank you.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Senator
25 Borrello.
2325
1 I want to remind the house that the
2 vote is on the procedures of the house and the
3 ruling of the chair.
4 Those in favor of overruling the
5 chair, signify by saying aye.
6 SENATOR PALUMBO: Request a show of
7 hands.
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: We've once again
9 agreed to waive the showing of hands and record
10 each member of the Minority in the affirmative,
11 Mr. President.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Without objection,
13 so ordered.
14 Announce the results.
15 THE SECRETARY: Ayes, 20.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The ruling of the
17 chair stands, and the bill-in-chief is before the
18 house.
19 Senator Ortt.
20 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you,
21 Mr. President. Would the sponsor yield.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
23 yield for questions?
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, sir, I do.
25 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2326
1 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
2 Mr. President.
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Excuse me. If I
4 might ask the sponsor which section he's going to
5 start with questions on.
6 SENATOR ORTT: Section UU.
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Then if you do
8 not mind --
9 SENATOR ORTT: I do not.
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: -- we have
11 someone else who's going to be the sponsor for
12 this section.
13 SENATOR ORTT: Fair enough.
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Senator Bailey
15 will be representing us. Thank you.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
17 yield?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you. Through
21 you, Mr. President.
22 Does the sponsor consider the
23 changes in this section of the bill that we're
24 voting on tonight a rollback or repeal of the
25 cashless bail that was passed by this body in
2327
1 2019?
2 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
3 Mr. President, the modifications that were made
4 in Part UU of this bill were changes that were
5 made to clarify statutes that were existing, to
6 make it easier for judges to understand and
7 determine the nature of the proceedings and to
8 also make sure that -- in the prior instance of
9 what we did, we wanted to make sure that we
10 clarified what bail was about. And bail was
11 about a return to court.
12 In clarifying some of the language,
13 we wanted to make sure that we were -- we're
14 looking to do everything that we can to make it
15 easier for judges to understand what the intent
16 of the Legislature was.
17 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
18 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
19 yield?
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR BAILEY: Sure.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR ORTT: So I want to -- just
25 so I understand. Through you, Mr. President.
2328
1 So that would be a no, the sponsor
2 would not view these clarifications as a repeal
3 or rollback of any of the provisions of the
4 cashless bail law of 2019.
5 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
6 Mr. President, different people have different
7 verbiages and different ways of saying things,
8 Mr. President.
9 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
10 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
11 yield.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
13 yield?
14 SENATOR BAILEY: Certainly.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
17 Mr. President. What is the sponsor's way of
18 saying it here?
19 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
20 Mr. President. I answered the Senator in my
21 initial response to his initial question.
22 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
23 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
24 yield?
25 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2329
1 yield?
2 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
5 Mr. President, does the sponsor believe that the
6 cashless bail -- again, the cashless bail law
7 that was passed in 2019 by the Majority in this
8 house -- has resulted in an increase in crime
9 here in New York or has contributed to an
10 increase in crime here in the State of New York?
11 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
12 Mr. President, no.
13 SENATOR ORTT: If the sponsor would
14 continue to yield.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
16 yield?
17 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
20 Mr. President. If not, then why, for the second
21 time, are we attempting to fix this law? This is
22 the second time that this body has taken up the
23 cashless bail that was passed in 2019, the second
24 time we've taken up trying to fix it. So we
25 passed it in 2019, we tried to -- we came up with
2330
1 some fix in 2020, and now here we are again.
2 So if it hasn't increased crime,
3 then what has brought us back here to clarify or
4 to try and fix it for yet a second time --
5 really, a total of three times that we've passed
6 laws related to bail in this body since 2019.
7 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
8 Mr. President. As a legislator, I think our job
9 is to ensure -- especially through the process of
10 chapter amendments. We modify bills based upon
11 chapter amendments a number of times.
12 So as legislators, if we see
13 something, we are -- we must make sure we take a
14 look at that and do what we need to do that.
15 What we did here is make sure --
16 again, in my initial response to the first
17 question -- was to ensure that there was
18 clarifying language so that judges were able to
19 interpret the statutory construction that we
20 created around the laws of 2019 when we passed
21 that at that time.
22 SENATOR ORTT: Will the sponsor
23 continue to yield?
24 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
25 yield?
2331
1 SENATOR BAILEY: Certainly.
2 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
4 Mr. President. So the sponsor said when you see
5 something, when we see something, we have to make
6 changes or attempt to make amendments.
7 So what have we seen as a result of
8 cashless bail from 2019 that has resulted in us
9 coming back and trying to amend it?
10 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
11 Mr. President, we have seen that certain judges
12 were not exactly clear on what the intent of the
13 Legislature was, and we decided to clarify that
14 accordingly.
15 SENATOR ORTT: Will the sponsor
16 continue to yield?
17 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
18 yield?
19 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
20 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
22 Mr. President, were there any changes to cashless
23 bail as part of the Executive Budget?
24 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
25 Mr. President, the Executive did not include
2332
1 those initially.
2 SENATOR ORTT: Will the sponsor
3 continue to yield?
4 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
5 yield?
6 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR ORTT: Were there changes
9 at all in the 30-day amendments?
10 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
11 Mr. President, no.
12 SENATOR ORTT: Will the sponsor
13 continue to yield?
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR ORTT: Were there changes
19 or amendments in the Senate or Assembly one-house
20 budgets?
21 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
22 Mr. President, no.
23 SENATOR ORTT: Will the sponsor
24 continue to yield?
25 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2333
1 yield?
2 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR ORTT: So there was nothing
5 about this in the Executive Budget, there was
6 nothing about this in the 30-day amendments,
7 there was nothing about this in the Senate or
8 Assembly one-house budgets. And as of March
9 15th, Senator Stewart-Cousins, the Majority
10 Leader, said that "I think the Governor has been
11 very clear that the bail reforms that we did were
12 right."
13 So I'm curious if the sponsor could
14 tell me, when did the Majority -- when did the
15 Majority Conference decide that something had to
16 be done, that these changes had to be made or
17 attempted to be made to the cashless bail laws of
18 2019? Because as of March 15th, they were saying
19 that -- their leadership was saying they're good,
20 there was nothing in any part of this budget
21 process until right now, here, tonight.
22 So I'm just curious as to when this
23 decision was made by the Majority to make changes
24 to cashless bail.
25 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
2334
1 Mr. President. As the good Senator knows, that
2 legislating is an evolving conversation. And
3 conversations were continued to be had,
4 through and including the time that the Senator
5 mentioned.
6 SENATOR ORTT: Will the sponsor
7 continue to yield?
8 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
9 yield?
10 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
11 Absolutely.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
14 Mr. President, I did not -- surely there must be
15 an answer in there, a time frame -- last week,
16 two weeks ago, a month ago, last night. There
17 had to be a moment when the conference, when the
18 Senator decided something had to be done. I'm
19 curious if he can tell me or share that with me.
20 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
21 Mr. President, as I previously stated, these
22 conversations are rapid, they are fast and
23 furious, and they continue through and including
24 this period of time. There were a number of
25 conversations had with a number of parties up to
2335
1 this date when the bill-in-chief is before the
2 house.
3 SENATOR ORTT: Will the sponsor
4 continue to yield?
5 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
6 yield?
7 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
8 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR ORTT: Rapid and evolving,
10 certainly.
11 What stakeholders were -- through
12 you, Mr. President, what stakeholders were
13 involved in the legislation Part UU that is
14 before us tonight? What specifically -- what law
15 enforcement agencies were consulted or involved
16 in conversations as this legislation was rapidly
17 and evolvingly crafted?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
19 Mr. President -- I've been sorry to say I haven't
20 been doing it through you, Mr. President. Thank
21 you for that.
22 District attorneys, defenders,
23 police organizations, including but not limited
24 to the State Troopers, the NYPD, the Yonkers
25 Police Department. And from my understanding, a
2336
1 host of other conversations that members of our
2 incredible staff, specifically Dorothy Powell --
3 I wanted to make sure we make that for the
4 record -- were having with members of law
5 enforcement.
6 So yes, law enforcement was
7 consulted in these rapidly evolving
8 conversations, Mr. President.
9 SENATOR ORTT: Will the sponsor
10 continue to yield?
11 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
12 yield?
13 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR ORTT: Through you,
16 Mr. President, just so I can get clarification,
17 the NYPD or the NYPBA was consulted as part of
18 this?
19 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
20 Mr. President, yes.
21 SENATOR ORTT: On the bill,
22 Mr. President.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Ortt on the
24 bill.
25 SENATOR ORTT: Well, first, I'll
2337
1 start with the last question there.
2 I think that might be news to the
3 NYPBA, based on the statement I saw today from
4 PBA President Pat Lynch.
5 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
6 Mr. President, the Senator asked NYPD. That was
7 my understanding. I personally have been dealing
8 with members of the NYPD, including the police
9 commissioner. That was the -- I just wanted to
10 make sure we clarified that for the record.
11 SENATOR ORTT: Thank you. Thank
12 you. Through you, Mr. President.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Ortt on the
14 bill.
15 SENATOR ORTT: So here we are,
16 third time since 2019, talking about bail. And I
17 want to be pretty clear and I think we've -- our
18 conference has been clear on this issue from 2019
19 till today.
20 I think we were pretty clarifying in
21 our comments back in 2019 when we said this law
22 would result in more victims, this law would
23 result in dangerous criminals being on the
24 street, in more crimes. All of which has been
25 borne out. All of which has happened.
2338
1 And despite attempts to cosmetically
2 fix this, here we still are -- crime rates,
3 violent crime rates skyrocketing across New York
4 City and across New York State. And despite all
5 those statistics, only today we're here jamming
6 this into a bill known as Education and Labor,
7 because obviously bail has something to do with
8 education or labor.
9 But I'm going to read a poll from
10 Siena: 56 percent of folks from -- 56 percent of
11 New Yorkers said that bail, cashless bail, was
12 bad for New York. Compared to 30 percent who
13 said that it was a good thing. That's why we're
14 here tonight. Public polling and public poll
15 numbers are why we're here, not public safety.
16 I want to read another quote from a
17 colleague of mine who said: "If you're coming
18 for bail reform, be specific or be quiet. It
19 will save you the embarrassment when the truth
20 comes out."
21 Well, the truth is -- that
22 New Yorkers know and we all know -- is that bail
23 reform has been a disaster. That's the truth.
24 And it is embarrassing when we have to keep
25 trying to fix something because we broke it.
2339
1 That is pretty embarrassing. And it's
2 embarrassing when you're trying to look like
3 you're fixing something but you can't look like
4 you're fixing something too much or you'll lose
5 your base.
6 So it's a tough position that the
7 Majority finds themselves in. And it certainly
8 is embarrassing for New Yorkers that we are here.
9 But New Yorkers aren't fooled, we're not fooled,
10 police officers aren't fooled, and victims aren't
11 fooled. This -- as the Governor said herself, I
12 think tonight, we're not going backwards when it
13 comes to bail. Well, if we're not going
14 backwards, we're going in the wrong direction.
15 So thank you very much,
16 Mr. President.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Palumbo.
18 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 Would Chairman Bailey yield for a
21 few more questions on Part UU, please.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
23 yield?
24 SENATOR BAILEY: Most certainly,
25 Senator Palumbo.
2340
1 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
3 Chairman. And I wanted to ask some questions
4 about the specific language of the bill. But I
5 just wanted to follow up a little bit on Leader
6 Ortt's previous question.
7 So would you yield for a question?
8 Did you already yield? I'm sorry.
9 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
10 SENATOR PALUMBO: You know, just to
11 follow up, I wasn't really clear on the reasons
12 why we're making these changes. Did you say it
13 was for clarification for judges? Can you please
14 just repeat that for me?
15 SENATOR BAILEY: Mr. President, to
16 clarify the earlier clarification, yes, it is to
17 make sure that the statute was clearer and easier
18 for judges to be able to interpret in determining
19 their decisions when there is a matter before
20 them.
21 SENATOR PALUMBO: Would you
22 continue to yield, please.
23 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Will the sponsor --
25 the sponsor yields.
2341
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: Senator, with
2 regard, then -- because you were here for the '19
3 initial adoption, right, and the changes in the
4 budget of 2020. Why were there changes made in
5 the budget of 2020 to the original iteration of
6 the bail reform statute?
7 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
8 Mr. President. As I mentioned earlier, as
9 legislators, when we review something and we see
10 that there could be changes made to it, we act
11 accordingly and make those changes.
12 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the Senator
13 continue to yield, please?
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR PALUMBO: So in that
19 regard, then, was that just to clarify those
20 changes in 2020? Or was that because it was --
21 there was an increase in crime as a result of the
22 original bill?
23 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
24 Mr. President, the initial changes were made
25 three months into the initial law that had
2342
1 passed. So there wasn't necessarily time to be
2 able to make clarifying changes as much as it was
3 about listening to members of law enforcement,
4 members of the defense bar and other associated
5 organizations -- and police departments as
6 well -- who had indicated concerns with the way
7 the statutory construction was on the initial
8 bill.
9 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
10 Senator.
11 Through you, Mr. President, will the
12 sponsor continue to yield.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
14 yield?
15 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR PALUMBO: And thank you,
18 Senator Bailey.
19 So the way I'm -- what I'm hearing,
20 then, obviously there was no confusion because
21 these crimes, from the first iteration to the
22 second, were not even included in the bill.
23 There was nothing unclear about the fact that the
24 judge could not set bail.
25 So upon listening to people, is what
2343
1 you're saying, to people who were concerned
2 because public safety was a problem, that's the
3 reason why we made the changes in 2020?
4 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
5 Mr. President, I don't think those were my exact
6 words.
7 What I think I indicated was, as
8 legislators, as responsible legislators, we
9 listened to people who contacted us in relation
10 to what some of the language was in relation to
11 the initial statute that was done. We listened
12 to them, we took their concerns into hand, and we
13 made modifications accordingly.
14 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
15 Would you continue to yield, please.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
17 yield?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you. And
21 it's very artful.
22 But it's very rare, I think, that
23 people in this business will actually say "we
24 made a mistake." So I guess I should ask it
25 plainly. Can we actually agree at this point
2344
1 that the original bail reform statute was a
2 mistake, there were changes that needed to be
3 made based upon its practical application.
4 Is that fair to say?
5 SENATOR BAILEY: There was not a
6 mistake. The notion that wealth-based detention
7 is acceptable was not a mistake. The fact that
8 you should -- someone can be incarcerated simply
9 because -- or remain incarcerated simply because
10 of the lack of financial wherewithal they have is
11 abhorrent. So I would not say that there were
12 mistakes made.
13 I would say, again, as legislators,
14 when presented with concerns and issues before us
15 by credible individuals and credible parties, we
16 have a duty to make sure that we return and, if
17 necessary, modify accordingly.
18 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will the sponsor
19 continue to yield, please, on the bill.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR PALUMBO: So I have an
25 article from about three days ago from the
2345
1 Daily News, and it had to do about statements in
2 an article that was a result of Commissioner --
3 the commissioner's comments, of the NYPD. She
4 indicated that over 500 people have been arrested
5 three times or more in January, February, March
6 of '22 alone, for robbery, burglary and
7 shoplifting.
8 So can you reconcile for me how that
9 rearrest -- three times or more -- for crimes
10 that originally, before 2020's implementation of
11 bail reform, they were originally bail-eligible
12 offenses but they were mandatorily omitted as a
13 result of this particular statute.
14 So can you tell me how the second
15 and third time victims were not a result of the
16 effects of bail reform, how they are not
17 suffering as a result? And that's just in the
18 past three months.
19 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
20 Mr. President, it's my understanding that robbery
21 and burglary are bail-eligible, are they not,
22 Senator Palumbo?
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: Well, through
24 you, Mr. President, let me -- I believe they have
25 the -- so of 500 arrests -- I had it on this
2346
1 sheet here. No, I don't have that section of the
2 article.
3 But I'll give you another example:
4 135 arrests by the Neighborhood Safety Unit,
5 which was implemented on March 14th, 135 arrests.
6 Twenty percent of them involve people with
7 pending felony cases, and 28 are suspects with
8 previous felony convictions.
9 So under -- depending on what those
10 felonies are, of course, a prior felony
11 conviction was not an eligible crime. Right? We
12 would agree, or it currently isn't as we stand
13 here today before this?
14 If someone has a prior felony
15 conviction, rather, if they're arrested for a
16 nonqualified offense, you can't set bail. The
17 prior history had nothing to do with it, correct?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Mr. President, I
19 just want to go back to the initial question that
20 was asked. And it goes back to the
21 facts-versus-fear conversation. It is amazing
22 how miraculously the robbery and burglary charges
23 disappeared just now.
24 But notwithstanding --
25 notwithstanding that, I would look to figure out
2347
1 in terms of the data, and we don't -- I don't
2 have -- we don't have data that would indicate
3 that this change has increased -- which is what I
4 believe the Senator is attempting to reconcile.
5 That as a result of bail reform, I
6 don't have any statistical data that would show
7 that these incidences are higher or lower than
8 they were prior to the enactment of bail reform.
9 SENATOR PALUMBO: Can you yield,
10 please, Senator?
11 THE PRESIDENT: Will the sponsor
12 yield?
13 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Well, as we stand
16 here today, before this bill gets signed into
17 law, would you agree with me that robbery in the
18 third degree and burglary in the third degree are
19 ineligible for bail?
20 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
21 Mr. President, I believe so. I believe so.
22 SENATOR PALUMBO: That they're not.
23 SENATOR BAILEY: You are correct.
24 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will you continue
25 to yield?
2348
1 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2 yield?
3 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
4 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR PALUMBO: And Chairman,
6 would you also agree with me that burglary in the
7 second degree, as long as they don't enter the
8 living area, and robbery in the second degree --
9 aided by another, without a weapon or injury --
10 are also ineligible for bail as we stand here
11 today?
12 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
13 Mr. President, the facts and the circumstances
14 depending on each purported offense would depend
15 on whether that offense would be bail-eligible.
16 But based upon the limited facts
17 that the Senator has mentioned, I would agree.
18 SENATOR PALUMBO: Would you
19 continue to yield.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR BAILEY: I yield.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
25 Senator.
2349
1 And would you also agree that as we
2 stand here today, an A-2 drug sale -- for
3 example, I sell enough fentanyl to kill everyone
4 in this room, and it's less than two ounces -- is
5 ineligible for bail?
6 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
7 Mr. President, that would be correct.
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: Would you
9 continue to yield?
10 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
11 yield?
12 SENATOR BAILEY: I yield.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR PALUMBO: And you know the
15 list is long, Senator. I won't go through all of
16 them so we're not here all night.
17 But every other drug possession or
18 sale, A-2 and lower, is ineligible, and many
19 other crimes in the Penal Law that are felonies,
20 including larcenies -- other than grand larceny
21 in the first degree, which is over a million
22 bucks -- are, as we stand here today, ineligible
23 for bail. Meaning no matter what the
24 circumstances are, the judge may not set bail.
25 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
2350
1 Mr. President. As the Senator knows, there are a
2 number of reasons why we don't look to
3 criminalize everything. We've spoken on both
4 sides of the aisle about an opiate crisis, about
5 individuals who have concerns with substance use
6 disorder. And the question before us is whether
7 incarceration is going to make our society
8 better.
9 But to the initial point that
10 Senator Palumbo made concerning those specific
11 categories, he is correct.
12 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
13 Senator. Would you continue to yield, please.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR BAILEY: The sponsor
17 yields.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR PALUMBO: And Chairman, I
20 guess one more question on that and then we'll
21 get to the bill itself.
22 But as far as theft crimes, I know
23 that they're somewhat addressed in the new bill.
24 But as we stand here today, if someone's arrested
25 for petit larceny, grand larceny, stolen
2351
1 vehicles, whatever it may be, as long as it's
2 less than a million dollars, you can do it every
3 single day and the court must release you. Is
4 that accurate? Must release you.
5 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
6 Mr. President, that would not be accurate.
7 Because if you're a repeat offender, the
8 subsequent charges would become bail-eligible.
9 SENATOR PALUMBO: Would the sponsor
10 continue to yield.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
12 yield?
13 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Chairman, if we
16 could get to the bill, page 450, if you don't
17 mind.
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Not at all.
19 SENATOR PALUMBO: And the new
20 specific language. I just wanted to get into the
21 weeds a little bit, because I actually -- when I
22 was in the other house, when this first iteration
23 passed, the sponsor there and I had many
24 discussions about it, then we debated it. And I
25 actually spoke with her last week, and she said
2352
1 these judges don't understand.
2 So if this is for clarification, as
3 you say, I think we need to create some
4 legislative intent to really be clear on what
5 some of these terms mean, if that's okay.
6 So if you look around the -- I guess
7 section (t) that's going to be added, at line 13
8 on page 450. So we're going to add, to qualified
9 offenses, "any felony or class A misdemeanor
10 involving harm to an identifiable person or
11 property, or any charge of criminal possession of
12 a firearm as defined in Section 265.01-b of the
13 Penal Law."
14 And where such conduct arose from --
15 while the defendant was released on his or her
16 own recognizance, released under conditions, or
17 had yet to be arraigned after the issuance of a
18 desk appearance ticket for a separate felony or
19 Class A misdemeanor involving harm to an
20 identifiable person or property or, again, the
21 firearm charge.
22 So without addressing the firearm
23 charge -- that's kind of an easy one -- I'd like
24 to address, if we could, there is a definition of
25 identifiable harm -- or involving harm to an
2353
1 identifiable person or property.
2 And then, lower, at line 25: "For
3 the purposes of this paragraph, 'harm to an
4 identifiable person or property' shall include
5 but not be limited to theft of or damage to
6 property."
7 So now I ask you that -- and I said
8 it's going to be a little technical, because this
9 is a very technical change. What do we mean by
10 harm to a person? Is that actual injury?
11 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
12 Mr. President, we're leaving it up to the judge's
13 discretion.
14 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will you continue
15 to yield.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
17 yield?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR PALUMBO: So, Senator,
21 we're going to now allow thousands of different
22 interpretations of what "harm to a person" means
23 up to an individual judge, in the thousands of
24 jurisdictions that we have, from Justice Court,
25 local town courts, to County Court, to
2354
1 Supreme Court. Is that what I'm hearing?
2 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
3 Mr. President. The Senator knows, as a
4 well-decorated attorney -- I don't mean that
5 off -- facetiously. Senator Palumbo, you are a
6 great attorney. You and I both know that there
7 is no catch-all provision for every single case.
8 And it is interesting that during
9 some of the pendency of some of the hostile
10 amendments that we've heard in this house, we've
11 heard about discretion, discretion, discretion.
12 And we're giving judges discretion.
13 So I believe that clarifying
14 language, in order to make sure that judges have
15 discretion and they can deal with what they
16 perceive to be based upon the individual facts of
17 specific matter, is certainly within our purview
18 and certainly within the purview of the judiciary
19 to determine.
20 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
21 Senator. Would you continue to yield?
22 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
23 yield?
24 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
25 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2355
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
2 Senator Bailey. I appreciate the compliment, and
3 you too. We have very enthusiastic debates for
4 sure on the Codes Committee.
5 So I do need to clarify the
6 hypothetical, though, because as we stand here
7 today, robbery in second degree, aided by
8 another, is not a qualifying offense. So we have
9 a violent felony, a Class C violent felony,
10 robbery in the second degree. And just for my
11 colleagues who don't know this stuff, because
12 we're literally in the weeds, aided by another is
13 unarmed but you're forcibly threatening someone
14 with physical threats.
15 For example, a gang of kids get
16 around someone and they say, We want your
17 property, and you turn it over as a result of
18 that physical threat. There's no physical harm,
19 necessarily, but you're in fear. It's the threat
20 of force that makes it a robbery.
21 So in that circumstance, is it
22 completely up to the judge's, quote, discretion
23 to try and extrapolate some harm? Or does "harm
24 to a person" mean what we think it all means,
25 injury to a person?
2356
1 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
2 Mr. President, in the hypothetical that Senator
3 Palumbo mentioned, robbery still involves theft
4 of property, and theft of property falls within
5 the purview of the new clarifying language that
6 we have put in here.
7 So theft of property would qualify
8 them no matter what. And there's a well-defined
9 body of case law as related to harm in the civil
10 context. So I think we'd be able to glean
11 something from some of that case law in the civil
12 context.
13 SENATOR PALUMBO: Would you
14 continue to yield, please, Chairman?
15 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
16 yield?
17 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR PALUMBO: And so I think --
20 I appreciate that. So if we're using, say, a
21 civil definition of harm, it can be emotional
22 harm and terror that you feel. Is that accurate?
23 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
24 Mr. President. In that hypothetical, correct.
25 SENATOR PALUMBO: Okay, thank you.
2357
1 And that's on the harm element.
2 Would you continue to yield, please.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Will the sponsor
4 yield?
5 SENATOR BAILEY: If you can repeat
6 the question.
7 SENATOR PALUMBO: Sure. I was just
8 saying -- my question on the harm that we were
9 saying, of the physical harm, not so much the
10 theft of property element. I'm talking about the
11 harm element that if someone -- a judge perceives
12 that there was a threat that was experienced or
13 perceived by the complainant victim, then in fact
14 that will meet the element of harm for the
15 purposes of being bail-eligible.
16 SENATOR BAILEY: So in the
17 contemplation of this language, the statutory
18 language was contemplated relating to physical
19 harm of an individual. That was what was in
20 contemplation.
21 However, as we mentioned before,
22 judges are able to make determinations. And when
23 we give them discretion, they are able to make
24 determinations based upon the individualized case
25 facts of the matter before them.
2358
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
2 Senator, would you continue to
3 yield?
4 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
5 yield?
6 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
7 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
8 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
9 And so just, then, for
10 clarification, for those watching or who will be
11 reading this transcript someday, the judge could
12 render a decision that someone's perceived threat
13 of harm, although no physical injury -- they were
14 crying, they felt fear, their heart raced, and
15 they tendered, let's say, a pack of cigarettes,
16 because that's going to get me to my next
17 question, which is going to lead to some more
18 language in here.
19 But say it's something that's of
20 very low value that is tendered. It would still
21 be a robbery under our law. In that
22 circumstance, the judge is perfectly allowed to
23 impose a cash bail remand or to set bail, because
24 they've met the "harm to a person" element.
25 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
2359
1 Mr. President, that fact pattern -- and any other
2 fact pattern, any other accused defense --
3 depends on context. And so, again, we are giving
4 judges the ability to determine, in the matter
5 before them, regardless of whatever hypothetical
6 we go to -- and we can all go with hypotheticals
7 that may lead in one direction or another -- the
8 intent is to ensure that we're clarifying, for
9 the members of the bench, giving them more
10 discretion, giving them the ability to interpret
11 the individual matters before them.
12 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
13 Senator. Would you continue to yield?
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR PALUMBO: And I appreciate
19 the fact that we're saying it's clarifying for
20 them. Through you, Mr. President. And of
21 course, with all due respect, I think that's made
22 it more confusing. Because we still don't know
23 what harm, physical harm to a person is, because
24 we still don't have a defined, specific situation
25 where we can say if there's physical contact and
2360
1 there's injury.
2 For example, in the lower charged
3 crimes, a harassment -- I punch you in the
4 face -- most likely harassment. That's not an
5 assault third because you need substantial
6 injury.
7 I break your nose, probably an
8 assault third, which is a misdemeanor.
9 So are we at a harassment level,
10 which is still physical contact and a minor
11 injury, are we at an assault situation, or are we
12 at the physical threat of intimidation like I
13 explained in that robbery example?
14 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
15 Mr. President. In the time since the prior
16 statute -- or soon to be prior statute at hand
17 was enacted, the judges have seemed to interpret
18 this -- these fact patterns in a manner in which
19 they're looking at or interpreting it as more
20 related to physical harm. And so in looking at
21 that, we just wanted to make sure we clarified
22 that portion of it.
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: Okay. And thank
24 you, Chairman. Would you continue to yield?
25 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2361
1 yield?
2 SENATOR BAILEY: Certainly.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR PALUMBO: So I think -- so
5 it's physical harm, is that what I'm hearing,
6 based upon the interpretation that I'm gathering
7 there?
8 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
9 Mr. President, correct.
10 SENATOR PALUMBO: Okay, understood.
11 Thank you.
12 Would you continue to yield, please?
13 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
14 yield?
15 SENATOR BAILEY: Certainly.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR PALUMBO: Now on the other
18 element where a judge might have the opportunity
19 to set bail. They still need to make a finding,
20 right, that such theft -- if the judge
21 determines -- and this is, I guess, what you were
22 talking about, what you were suggesting was
23 discretion -- that such theft is negligible and
24 does not appear to be in furtherance of other
25 criminal activity, the principal shall be
2362
1 released, shall be released on his or her own
2 recognizance under appropriate non-monetary
3 conditions.
4 So my question to you is, how do we
5 define "negligible" in this particular statute
6 with respect to the value of property? What does
7 that mean?
8 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
9 Mr. President, it's a fact-based analysis based
10 upon, again, the -- the alleged offense at hand.
11 And it's designed to address alleged --
12 alleged -- crimes of poverty. We or I don't
13 think anybody, regardless of what side of the
14 aisle or whatever your affiliation may be, would
15 believe that someone should be incarcerated
16 simply for stealing something because that --
17 they want to eat.
18 Again, I want to be very clear, in
19 the same breath, that we are not excusing, we are
20 not condoning, and we're not encouraging such
21 activities.
22 However, as thoughtful individuals,
23 as reasonable people, it is our belief and should
24 be everyone's belief that incarcerating someone
25 based upon a fact-based analysis -- fact-based
2363
1 analysis, not conjecture-based, not
2 thought-based -- fact-based analysis that is
3 related to a crime of poverty, that the judge
4 again would still have the discretion to be able
5 to. They still have discretion.
6 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will you continue
7 to yield, Senator? And I'll wrap it up.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
9 yield?
10 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you. So,
13 for example, someone stole baby formula or bread,
14 are you suggesting that would be negligible?
15 SENATOR BAILEY: Mr. President,
16 based upon what a fact-based analysis is based
17 upon, based upon what the specific nature of the
18 offense was in front of the judge. And they have
19 the determination -- excuse me, they have the
20 discretion, the ability to determine what is
21 negligible and what would not be negligible.
22 SENATOR PALUMBO: Will you continue
23 to yield, Senator?
24 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
25 yield?
2364
1 SENATOR BAILEY: I do.
2 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR PALUMBO: With respect to
4 that same negligible determination, how about a
5 Louis Vuitton bag that's a thousand-dollar bag?
6 Would that be considered negligible or could that
7 be considered negligible by some judges and pass
8 muster?
9 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
10 Mr. President, again, it's a fact-based analysis,
11 but I think that we stray far from -- I don't
12 think that -- no disrespect intended -- that an
13 individual could eat a Louis Vuitton bag.
14 SENATOR PALUMBO: Senator, I know
15 I'm coming up on a half an hour, and I do
16 appreciate your questions {sic}.
17 On the bill, please, Mr. President.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Palumbo on
19 the bill.
20 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
21 And I do appreciate Chairman Bailey
22 answering my questions. He -- as we indicated
23 earlier, he artfully gave me a lot of
24 non-answers, and I guess we can appreciate that
25 as lawyers and people in government.
2365
1 But I think we all kind of know what
2 the answers are -- that this actually provides
3 discretion in one direction. Because they could
4 ultimately -- this is all we're doing, we're
5 adding a firearm crime. And it's trafficking of
6 a gun -- very, very rare circumstance -- and some
7 possession.
8 But we have all these other crimes
9 that are quite frankly wreaking havoc amongst our
10 communities, and we now have something that is --
11 well, if it involves theft of property or harm to
12 a person -- discretionary terms -- we're going to
13 be right back in the same position.
14 Again, this is something that you
15 can't hide behind. Bad policy on the
16 environment, bad policy on taxes, you can get
17 away with that. Because a couple of years later
18 you can go back and say, you know what, maybe we
19 were a little quick to act, maybe we need to make
20 some changes. And nobody really notices. The
21 taxes get a little bit -- maybe they're happy
22 because they get their tax return, hey, I got a
23 bigger refund this year, that's wonderful.
24 Great, good stuff. You know, oh, paid 16 cents
25 less for a gallon of gas. Ah, not too bad. Life
2366
1 goes on. Ten bucks a week.
2 But you can't hide when it comes to
3 public safety. And we have crime running rampant
4 in our communities. And I know we say it's the
5 pandemic, it's guns, I've heard Donald Trump,
6 I've heard all these things. And I even had some
7 colleagues the other day saying, well, Florida,
8 Florida is -- the murder rate is up, Florida is a
9 red state and Florida -- and it became a little
10 political.
11 But the bottom line is -- actually,
12 in response to that, I pulled it up. Florida, a
13 few weeks ago, 50th straight year crime went down
14 as a whole. Murders are up, you're absolutely
15 right. Violent crime is up 2.3 percent.
16 Property crimes, in a non-bail reform state, are
17 down 17 percent. Rape is down. Domestic
18 violence murder was down in 2020, while stalking
19 increased. So they experienced the same pandemic
20 that we did.
21 So it's not just anecdotal that
22 we're struggling with criminal justice and public
23 safety in New York as a result of outside
24 influences. It's what we did in this building
25 right here. And quite frankly, this is a tweak
2367
1 that does virtually nothing. And as I said
2 earlier, that's why repealing this, catching our
3 breath, and doing it right.
4 New Jersey implemented a
5 dangerousness standard. We don't have that
6 still. We have some discretion, which isn't
7 really discretion, in my opinion, so it's not.
8 We have -- in New Jersey they implemented their
9 bail reform, and they have discretion. And they
10 have a score sheet where you can check off
11 criminal history, risk of flight, all those
12 checkoffs, and you get a certain score. You're
13 not even eligible for bail if you score high
14 enough.
15 We actually did that in Suffolk
16 County when I was a prosecutor. And it would be
17 considered, it would have significant weight as
18 far as a judge releasing someone. But it wasn't
19 binding. You could even have speedy trial sped
20 up, that if you're not ready for trial and
21 someone's incarcerated on a low-level felony,
22 within 30 days they must be released.
23 I suggested that two years ago.
24 Something like that would be smart. Then the DA
25 can prioritize. Because certain misdemeanors --
2368
1 for example, when I was a prosecutor, I would get
2 some fatalities charged as a misdemeanor DWI
3 only, because you needed to do reconstruction,
4 prove the case, put it in the grand jury, and
5 then charge the higher cases and the higher
6 crimes.
7 Even under this statute, if you
8 don't damage anything and cause any harm to
9 property, you can get 17 DWIs in two weeks and
10 you still must be released. How is that safe?
11 How is that good for the public?
12 So, my friends, this does nothing to
13 make us safer. This is a press release. And I'm
14 sorry, I cannot agree with it. And under no
15 circumstances will our situation improve
16 significantly enough in a manner in which we owe
17 to our constituents and New Yorkers.
18 Thank you, Mr. President.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Akshar.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
21 thank you. Will the sponsor yield?
22 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you,
24 Senator.
25 I just want to come back out of the
2369
1 weeds. I just want to return to this issue of
2 the judges and helping the judges have a better
3 understanding of what the intent of the
4 legislation was.
5 So over the course of the last three
6 years, have you heard specifically from judges
7 and have judges told you that with respect to the
8 first iteration of bail reform, the second, and
9 now the third, they in fact have had a difficult
10 time interpreting the intent of the law?
11 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
12 Mr. President, as recently as this year's hearing
13 on Public Protection, the budget hearing on
14 Public Protection.
15 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you.
16 Would the sponsor continue to yield?
17 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
18 yield?
19 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
20 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR AKSHAR: So what
22 specifically in the statute before us have we
23 changed to make it easier for the judges to
24 interpret the intent of the law?
25 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
2370
1 Mr. President. Clarifying language based upon
2 repeat offenses, discovery, theft of property.
3 Those are some of the examples.
4 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
5 through you, would the sponsor continue to yield?
6 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
7 yield?
8 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR AKSHAR: Let's ask a
11 question about repeat offenses, because I want to
12 make sure I understand it. And I may be slightly
13 confused about it, like the judges.
14 If I -- if I'm charged with criminal
15 sale of a controlled substance today -- I sell
16 two bundles of heroin to someone -- I'm
17 arraigned, I'm released, because it's a
18 non-bailable offense, and then three days from
19 now I'm arrested once again for criminal sale of
20 a controlled substance -- I sold two bundles of
21 heroin to someone -- will the judge then have
22 discretion and be able to remand me in that
23 instance?
24 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
25 Mr. President, they would not qualify, because
2371
1 there's no -- there was no identifiable person or
2 harm.
3 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
4 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
5 yield.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
7 yield?
8 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR AKSHAR: You think drug
11 dealers pose a danger or inherent risk, by way of
12 their action, to the public, the greater public?
13 SENATOR BAILEY: Can you repeat the
14 question?
15 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
16 through you. Do you believe drug dealers pose a
17 danger or a threat to the public by way of
18 selling drugs to people who use them?
19 SENATOR BAILEY: There is certainly
20 a concern there, but it would not qualify under
21 the bail -- being bail-eligible, because there is
22 no identifiable harm to a person.
23 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
24 just on the bill for one second.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Akshar on
2372
1 the bill.
2 SENATOR AKSHAR: With all due
3 respect, I think we may have missed the mark here
4 in this particular space. I'm not being critical
5 of you, because I know that you and I have had
6 significant conversations around this space.
7 But not being able to identify harm
8 when one is selling, in this instance as I stand
9 here, heroin to people who are using it -- and we
10 all know so many people are dying, right, of
11 overdose -- I think we may have missed the mark
12 here.
13 Mr. President, if the sponsor will
14 continue to yield.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
16 yield?
17 SENATOR BAILEY: The sponsor
18 yields.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR AKSHAR: This next question
21 I ask with the utmost respect. The system of
22 cash bail as we once knew it, prior to 2019, does
23 the sponsor believe that it was inherently
24 racist?
25 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
2373
1 Mr. President, the systems of justice in the
2 United States of America have long been
3 discriminatory towards many different classes of
4 people, many different religions of people,
5 many different races of people. That may include
6 cash bail.
7 Cash bail, the issue with it -- as I
8 mentioned in some of the questions by some of our
9 colleagues, it's abhorrent. Because when you're
10 looking to criminalize poverty and incarcerate
11 someone based upon the amount of money that they
12 do not have, that is what I believe is inherently
13 problematic.
14 SENATOR AKSHAR: Thank you.
15 Mr. President, if the sponsor would
16 continue to yield.
17 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
18 yield?
19 SENATOR BAILEY: The sponsor
20 yields.
21 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
22 SENATOR AKSHAR: Within this reform
23 have we included more crimes to the list of
24 crimes that in fact are bail-eligible?
25 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
2374
1 Mr. President, we have spoken at length about the
2 scourge of gun violence in our respective
3 communities, in Broome and the Bronx, and there
4 was some clarifying language in relation to some
5 offenses related to gun crimes in the statute
6 that were added.
7 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
8 through you, if the sponsor will continue to
9 yield.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
11 yield?
12 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR AKSHAR: No other crimes,
15 though, outside of gun crimes specifically.
16 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
17 Mr. President, we've looked at a lot of the
18 cases -- excuse me, we've looked at the
19 Penal Law -- I don't want to say incessantly, but
20 incessantly. We've looked at it, our staff has
21 pored over it, and we have reviewed a number of
22 different offenses.
23 And we could go down the rabbit hole
24 of every single offense in the Penal Law and
25 determine whether they should be bail-eligible or
2375
1 if -- also if incarcerating that individual
2 actually makes that person -- actually
3 rehabilitates. That's another statement to make.
4 But by and large, in the bill before
5 us, the offenses that were changed related to gun
6 crimes.
7 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
8 through you, if the sponsor will yield.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
10 yield?
11 SENATOR BAILEY: The sponsor
12 yields.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR AKSHAR: I just want to go
15 back to this issue of dealing drugs and so many
16 people dying of overdose at the hands of other
17 people. We've reformed this a few times.
18 Do you think it's possible that we
19 may come back and revisit this issue with respect
20 to, you know, harm to an identifiable person?
21 And just as we're here tonight, I know that we're
22 not going to address that. But do you think it
23 may happen in the future in which we recognize
24 that those that peddle poison in our communities
25 in fact are taking the lives of our sons and our
2376
1 daughters -- in fact, that maybe law enforcement
2 would have a tool in which they could take those
3 perpetrators off the street?
4 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
5 Mr. President, my grandfather James T. Bailey
6 once said, "Time is a fortune teller." So I
7 don't -- and I'm not, so I don't know what's
8 going to happen in the future.
9 What I can tell you, though,
10 specifically related to crimes relating to the
11 substance use disorder, statistics have shown --
12 and that is very clear, and very clearly shown --
13 incarceration is not the way to solving substance
14 use disorder.
15 I know that the Senator and I, we've
16 had many conversations as related to the opioid
17 crisis and when it became a crisis and how it
18 became a crisis. And it's still a crisis. We
19 may disagree on whether incarceration is the way
20 to manage that. I certainly don't believe so,
21 Mr. President.
22 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
23 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
24 yield.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2377
1 yield?
2 SENATOR BAILEY: I yield.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR AKSHAR: I just want to
5 move to Subpart G, specific around data
6 collection. Just give me an overview of what we
7 anticipate accomplishing through this Subpart G
8 of the bill.
9 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
10 Mr. President, we wanted to again clarify and
11 making sure that we're collecting the proper --
12 that when we're collecting data -- and sometimes
13 this news report says this percentage and this
14 report says that percentage. We wanted to make
15 it clear about the nature of the offense, whether
16 bail was granted, who the judge was, who the
17 prosecutor was, and the amount and form of bail.
18 SENATOR AKSHAR: Mr. President,
19 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
20 yield.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
22 yield?
23 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR AKSHAR: What will you be
2378
1 comparing that data to? Because I think much of
2 the back-and-forth or the debate, the dialogue,
3 the disagreement, you know, some would argue that
4 bail reform has led to an increase in crime, some
5 would not. I'm guessing that's what you're
6 trying to figure out, right, collect some data
7 and be able to say anecdotally that the data
8 points to X or the data points to Y.
9 What will we be comparing the data
10 to with respect to this particular issue?
11 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
12 Mr. President, we're not necessarily looking to
13 compare the data to anything.
14 I think that we wanted to make sure
15 we collect the data. We can't retroactively
16 compare these specifically set data points to
17 something prior, because these specifically set
18 or soon to be specifically set data points do not
19 currently exist.
20 Going forward, as data comes in
21 relating to these matters, we will be able to
22 take an objective look at what the data yields
23 and what that means for our justice system.
24 SENATOR AKSHAR: On the bill,
25 Mr. President.
2379
1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Akshar on
2 the bill.
3 SENATOR AKSHAR: I thank the
4 sponsor for his responses to my questions.
5 I would start by saying with respect
6 to narcotics and the criminal sale of controlled
7 substances, you and I agree. And I don't want
8 anyone in this room for one moment to think that
9 I am suggesting, by way of the conversation, that
10 those that suffer from substance use disorder in
11 fact should be incarcerated or find themselves
12 locked up and not getting the help that they so
13 desperately need.
14 But I think that we have to make, as
15 a legislature, those of us in the statehouse, we
16 have to make a very clear delineation between
17 those that are suffering and then those that in
18 fact are peddling poison on our streets for
19 profit. And if we're not identifying the
20 difference between the two of those, or handling
21 those in a different way, I think we're failing
22 the people of New York.
23 Because after all, our number-one
24 job as members of this Legislature is to protect
25 people. And frankly, public safety is paramount.
2380
1 My biggest disappointment on all of
2 this is that I think that there has just been
3 this global refusal to admit the public policy
4 failures that we all know as bail reform.
5 And in my heart I believe that many
6 of us here in government, we have good
7 intentions. But at the end of the day, good
8 intentions without common sense, without
9 thoughtfulness, without input from those with
10 significant knowledge and experience -- when we
11 don't lean on those people, we arrive here, the
12 third iteration of trying to get it right. The
13 third time we're coming back to this issue and
14 trying to address it in a way that works for the
15 people of this state.
16 But oftentimes I think sometimes we
17 bow and we acquiesce to political activists. I
18 heard that we listened, or the Majority listened
19 to the stakeholders, they listened to the NYPD.
20 You may have listened, but it's my position that
21 you certainly didn't take their advice.
22 I think what we're seeing tonight,
23 really, is a feeble attempt to pull the wool over
24 the eyes of New Yorkers. But I am standing here
25 this evening to say that New Yorkers are far too
2381
1 smart. New Yorkers know exactly how negatively
2 bail reform has impacted their day-to-day life.
3 And all of this is political
4 posturing. It is political calculus. Because
5 one of my colleagues said it earlier, that
6 clearly the polls show that the people of
7 New York want something done and they want this
8 changed. But at the end of the day,
9 Mr. President, it is clear to me, after listening
10 to the debate, listening to the discussion, that
11 nothing, nothing has changed. Maybe a few small
12 things. But certainly the changes that we're
13 debating tonight are certainly not going to keep
14 New Yorkers safer.
15 Mr. President, I thank you.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Borrello.
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 Would the sponsor yield some
20 questions on Part UU, Subpart F, dealing with
21 mental health in courts?
22 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: All right.
25 Thank you, Senator Bailey.
2382
1 I'd like to draw your attention
2 to -- they're underlined, so I'm assuming these
3 are new changes regarding involuntary assessment
4 pending release. If you go down a little bit
5 toward the bottom, it actually says, essentially,
6 that during a -- in order for someone to be held
7 for a psychiatric evaluation, that the principal
8 has to be conducting him or herself before the
9 court in such a manner which in a person who is
10 not mentally ill would be deemed disorderly
11 conduct.
12 So the question is, if someone
13 committed some kind of a violent act and they
14 were arrested, they -- and it was deemed that it
15 was due to a mental illness that this might have
16 been the reason that they acted in this manner,
17 would they have to then essentially act, you
18 know, mentally ill in front of the court in order
19 to be held?
20 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
21 Mr. President. It's not just at arraignment, but
22 at any time prior to that that an individual who
23 is deemed to be mentally ill can exhibit those
24 symptoms.
25 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
2383
1 will the sponsor continue to yield?
2 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
3 yield?
4 SENATOR BAILEY: Certainly.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: So I appreciate
7 that answer. I'd actually like to move on to a
8 different subject now, if that's okay.
9 You said several times that tonight
10 you're doing clarifications. Now, I've read
11 media reports after the release of this bill that
12 said that there are going to be changes made to
13 bail. I got a call from a reporter: Can you
14 tell me about the changes that are being made to
15 bail laws, cashless bail?
16 I just want to clarify. You're
17 saying that there are no changes being made, that
18 these are just clarifications. Is that correct?
19 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
20 Mr. President, clarification is a change.
21 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
22 will the sponsor continue to yield?
23 THE PRESIDENT: Will the sponsor
24 yield?
25 SENATOR BAILEY: The sponsor
2384
1 yields.
2 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR BORRELLO: Well, no,
4 actually a clarification is the opposite of a
5 change. You're just saying we're clarifying what
6 we've already told you. That's actually the
7 opposite of changing something, is it not?
8 So let me ask you again: Are we
9 making changes to the bail law tonight?
10 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
11 Mr. President, the initial answer to my response
12 stands.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: All right.
14 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
15 yield.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
17 yield?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: The sponsor
19 yields.
20 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR BORRELLO: All right. So
22 to clarify another point, another thing that I've
23 heard is that we've talked about judges having
24 discretion and that somehow we're giving judges
25 discretion.
2385
1 After tonight when this budget
2 passes, will judges in New York State have
3 discretion to hold someone based on
4 dangerousness?
5 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
6 Mr. President, dangerousness has never been a
7 standard in the State of New York and will not be
8 a standard in the State of New York after the
9 passage of this legislation.
10 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
11 will the sponsor continue to yield.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
13 yield?
14 SENATOR BAILEY: The sponsor
15 yields.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: I just want to
18 make sure, because this is a very important
19 point. So after tonight, anyone in the media
20 that's writing a story, judges will not have
21 discretion to hold someone based on
22 dangerousness. We're clear on that.
23 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
24 Mr. President, judges have never in the history
25 of the judiciary in the State of New York had
2386
1 discretion to hold somebody in bail based upon
2 dangerousness. Never.
3 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
4 on the bill.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Borrello on
6 the bill.
7 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
8 Senator Bailey.
9 Senator Bailey's absolutely right.
10 Judges have never been able to hold anyone based
11 on dangerousness in New York State. New York
12 actually is the only state that has tried to
13 address changes to cashless bail and actually has
14 not considered dangerousness.
15 So that's what makes New York
16 unique. Because unfortunately the goal here
17 wasn't to craft a responsible law, the goal here
18 was to prove New York was the most progressive.
19 And that's why we are where we are today.
20 And we can sit here and tell people
21 that there's no correlation between the spike in
22 crime and the changes to the bail laws. Don't
23 believe your lying eyes, New Yorkers; nothing to
24 see here. That's what we're telling them.
25 But New Yorkers know better. And in
2387
1 fact, 82 percent of New Yorkers in that Siena
2 poll that Leader Ortt referenced believe that
3 judges should indeed have discretion to hold
4 someone based on dangerousness.
5 So we can continue to tell people
6 everything's fine, nothing to see here, or we can
7 actually make fundamental changes -- not just
8 clarifications -- to this failed bail reform law.
9 Thank you, Mr. President.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Serino.
11 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
12 Mr. President. Would the sponsor yield for some
13 questions?
14 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Would the
16 sponsor -- the sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
18 Senator Bailey.
19 In 2019 when this legislation was
20 first passed, I held a press conference with law
21 enforcement and DAs but also with domestic
22 violence victims' advocates who expressed
23 tremendous concerns about the safety of those
24 they serve.
25 First of all, it should never have
2388
1 taken all these years for their concerns to be
2 heard, but I'm glad to see that a piece of this
3 change includes a provision that would allow any
4 violation of an order of protection issued by any
5 court to be considered when making a custody
6 determination.
7 But I'm totally disturbed that a
8 number of charges that directly impact victims of
9 domestic violence are still not bail-eligible.
10 And that would be assault in the third degree,
11 most stalking offenses, unlawful imprisonment in
12 the second degree -- which for those who don't
13 know, that's holding a person against their will,
14 as so often happens in domestic violence cases --
15 and most egregiously, aggravated family offense.
16 So just wondering, like, what is the
17 disconnect here? Why are there charges
18 continually left off the bail-eligible list?
19 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
20 Mr. President, when we initially, three months
21 into the conversation -- you know, three months
22 into the enacted legislation, we added some
23 offenses to the bail eligibility list based upon
24 direct conversations with domestic violence
25 survivors organizations and those organizations
2389
1 who support victims of domestic violence.
2 Something that we've been very steadfast in being
3 able and being willing to listen to groups and
4 their concerns.
5 The modifications, clarifications
6 set before us today are related to offenses, as
7 I've stated before, related to issues related to
8 the scourge of gun violence in our community --
9 all of our communities -- repeat offenders, and
10 issues related to the clarifying language on
11 discovery.
12 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
13 Mr. President --
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR SERINO: -- sponsor
17 continue to yield?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Certainly.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR SERINO: So -- and I love
21 that you had the conversations with the domestic
22 victim advocates and domestic victims, did you
23 say too, Senator Bailey?
24 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
25 Mr. President, yes.
2390
1 SENATOR SERINO: So -- but I'm
2 wondering, I know those conversations happened a
3 while back. But they didn't happen now when you
4 guys were just crafting this?
5 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
6 Mr. President, we always have continuous
7 conversations with such critically important
8 advocacy groups.
9 But again, the clarifications before
10 us today were focused upon the -- what we
11 indicated before, related to gun violence and
12 repeat offenders. Specifically as related to the
13 bail eligibility.
14 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
15 Mr. President, if the sponsor would --
16 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
17 yield?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR SERINO: So -- and
21 Senator Bailey, I appreciate what you just said.
22 But when you think about the crimes that I just
23 said, like the stalking offenses -- and this is
24 just talking about what these items are --
25 unlawful imprisonment in the second degree. As
2391
1 we know, that so often happens with domestic
2 violence victims, and it's holding them against
3 their will. These were not included.
4 So they are not -- domestic violence
5 victims are not protected. And having
6 conversations with a lot of domestic violence
7 victims, these are very concerning to me. And I
8 just -- I don't understand why they would not
9 have been included.
10 And so those are all the questions I
11 have for you, Senator Bailey.
12 And I have other questions if I
13 could ask those at this time, because I think
14 we're done with bail. Is that okay?
15 THE PRESIDENT: Sure.
16 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
17 Senator Bailey.
18 THE PRESIDENT: What section?
19 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
20 Mr. President, this is for SSI for assisted
21 living facilities.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gianaris.
23 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President, I
24 understand -- because we have to get
25 Senator Krueger back out for that portion. But I
2392
1 do understand there are other members who have
2 debate on this portion. So if it's okay, we can
3 return to that?
4 Great. Thank you.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Senator O'Mara.
6 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you,
7 Mr. President. Would Senator Bailey yield for a
8 few questions?
9 SENATOR BAILEY: Certainly.
10 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
11 SENATOR O'MARA: Senator Bailey, on
12 this reform to the reform bail, Part UU that
13 we're talking about here, is it accurate that
14 still the crimes of menacing in the first, second
15 or third degrees are not bail-eligible on a first
16 arrest?
17 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
18 Mr. President, Senator O'Mara is correct.
19 SENATOR O'MARA: Is it -- through
20 you, Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue
21 to yield.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
23 yield?
24 SENATOR BAILEY: Certainly.
25 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2393
1 SENATOR O'MARA: Is it accurate,
2 Senator Bailey, that the crimes of stalking in
3 the second, third or fourth degrees are not
4 bail-eligible on a first offense?
5 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
6 Mr. President, Senator O'Mara is correct.
7 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
8 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
9 yield.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
11 yield?
12 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR O'MARA: Is it accurate,
15 Senator Bailey, that the crime of failure to
16 register as a sex offender is not bail-eligible?
17 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
18 Mr. President, that would depend on the level of
19 registry, the sex offender registry level that
20 the individual was at.
21 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
22 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
23 yield.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
25 yield?
2394
1 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
2 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR O'MARA: Just to clarify,
4 then, Senator Bailey, the failure to register as
5 a sex offender, level one or level two, is not
6 bail-eligible, correct?
7 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
8 Mr. President, Senator O'Mara is correct.
9 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
10 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
11 yield.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
13 yield?
14 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR O'MARA: Is it accurate,
17 Senator Bailey, that the crime of facilitating
18 female genital mutilation is not bail-eligible as
19 a first offense?
20 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
21 Mr. President, I appreciate Senator O'Mara's
22 efforts to go through a number of abhorrent
23 crimes in the penal code that we all agree are
24 abhorrent.
25 To answer the question, you know,
2395
1 that is not bail-eligible. But to a larger
2 point, as I've stated previously to my good
3 colleagues, the statute before us today relates
4 to clarifying language as it relates to repeat
5 offenders and issues related to gun crimes.
6 We could continue to go down every
7 single crime in the Penal Law. Which would be
8 fine, because it would continue to go by their
9 debate limit. And so I'm willing to listen to
10 every single crime in the Penal Law if that's
11 what makes them happy.
12 But so that we can have further
13 discussion and dialogue about the substance of
14 this, I would answer again this is -- that
15 abhorrent offense that you mentioned is not
16 bail-eligible.
17 SENATOR O'MARA: Through you,
18 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
19 yield.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR O'MARA: So it's accurate,
25 then, that the crime of facilitating female
2396
1 genital mutilation is not bail-eligible, yes or
2 no?
3 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
4 Mr. President, asked and answered.
5 SENATOR O'MARA: I've got a whole
6 list of crimes here that are not -- through you,
7 Mr. President.
8 THE PRESIDENT: On the bill or are
9 you asking questions?
10 SENATOR O'MARA: No, on the bill
11 for a moment. Then I'll have another question
12 for you.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator O'Mara on
14 the bill.
15 SENATOR O'MARA: I've got page
16 after page of crimes that are not bail-eligible
17 still under this reform that is being sold to the
18 public as providing more public security, making
19 people feel safer in their everyday lives.
20 Pages and pages of these. I'm not
21 going to go through them all. But there are a
22 couple that I haven't gotten to yet. Aggravated
23 cruelty to animals is not bail-eligible.
24 SENATOR BAILEY: Are you asking me
25 or --
2397
1 SENATOR O'MARA: No. No, I'm --
2 THE PRESIDENT: No, he's on the
3 bill.
4 SENATOR O'MARA: On the bill.
5 And I think we're all well aware of
6 what a precursor to larger crimes aggravated
7 cruelty to animals can be throughout history, and
8 several serial killers having started their
9 criminal careers as such.
10 The crime of unlawful imprisonment
11 in the second degree is not bail-eligible. The
12 crime of burglary in the third degree is not
13 bail-eligible. The crime of robbery in the
14 second degree, where two or more people rob you,
15 steal -- forcibly take property from you, is not
16 bail-eligible on a first arrest. The crime of
17 robbery in the third degree is not bail-eligible
18 on a first offense still.
19 The crimes of arson in the third,
20 fourth and fifth degrees are not bail-eligible on
21 the first offense. And just to give you an idea
22 of what that covers in the arson statutes:
23 Intentionally starting a building on fire or
24 causing an explosion to a building, a Class C
25 felony -- no bail for that.
2398
1 To go back to stalking for a moment,
2 the crime of stalking in the second degree is
3 when someone commits stalking in the third degree
4 and displays or possesses and threatens the use
5 of a firearm, a pistol, a revolver or a rifle, a
6 shotgun, a machine gun, an electric dart gun, an
7 electronic stun gun, a cane sword, a billy, a
8 blackjack, a bludgeon, plastic knuckles, metal
9 knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub,
10 slingshot or slungshot, shuriken -- whatever that
11 is -- "Kung Fu Star," dagger, dangerous knife,
12 dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol -- not
13 bail-eligible.
14 Third degree -- having trouble
15 finding it here. To back up on the arson in the
16 second degree that I described, threatening the
17 use of all those weapons and stalking somebody --
18 but to get there, you have to have committed a
19 prior stalking within the preceding 10 years.
20 Yet that is still not bail-eligible under this
21 so-called reform to make the public feel safe.
22 This Part UU of this bill is a
23 farce. It's a cover-up. It's doing nothing to
24 protect New Yorkers from vicious criminals to
25 keep them off the streets. But they can go
2399
1 out -- they have to commit it a second time for
2 the judge to even consider putting bail on it.
3 That's not what the public is expecting these
4 reforms to be. So to sell it as anything else is
5 just plain fraud.
6 Thank you, Mr. President.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stec.
8 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
9 Mr. President. I'm not sure if it would be
10 Senator Bailey. I'd like to ask some questions
11 about Part F, tuition assistance for incarcerated
12 individuals.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gianaris.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President, I
15 think Senator Krueger will be addressing those
16 issues.
17 SENATOR STEC: Okay, wonderful.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Will the sponsor
19 yield? Does the sponsor yield?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I do.
21 SENATOR STEC: All right, thank
22 you, Senator Krueger. Good evening.
23 If I could, I'd like to start --
24 through you, Mr. President -- with a broad
25 question about Part F, Tuition Assistance
2400
1 Program, changing the Education Law to allow
2 incarcerated individuals -- or, to most of my
3 constituents back home, inmates, prison
4 inmates -- to receive tuition assistance.
5 What is the purpose in New York
6 State of incarcerating people?
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: The purpose of
8 incarceration?
9 SENATOR STEC: Sure.
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: I believe it is
11 both for rehabilitation and in some circumstances
12 to keep people separated from the general public.
13 SENATOR STEC: So through you, if
14 the sponsor would continue to yield.
15 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
16 yield?
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I do.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
19 SENATOR STEC: So reform, and
20 provide public safety.
21 Would you add to that punishment or
22 deterrence from criminal activity?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: I certainly don't
24 think I would use the term "punishment." That's
25 more of a moral action.
2401
1 Again, if it's deterrence in the
2 sense that it is keeping people separated from
3 the general public for some period of time. So
4 you could say deterrence, I suppose.
5 SENATOR STEC: Through you,
6 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
7 yield.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
9 yield?
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
13 Would you or, more importantly, do
14 you think our constituents would consider
15 providing taxpayer-funded college education as a
16 purpose of incarceration or just a happy
17 byproduct?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: I think most
19 citizens would be happy to see fewer people
20 committing crimes, fewer people recommitting
21 crimes. And the research shows that when you
22 leave prison, if you have opportunities to move
23 into the economy and get and keep work, you are
24 far less likely to ever recidivise and return to
25 prison.
2402
1 So I would actually think most
2 people would think: Hmm, they're in jail, we're
3 paying for them to be there. For them to improve
4 their skills and their opportunities once they
5 get out of the prison is probably a good thing
6 for society overall.
7 SENATOR STEC: Mr. President,
8 through you, if the sponsor would continue to
9 yield.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
11 yield?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I do.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
15 Are you aware, Senator, of the cost
16 per year per inmate in the New York State system
17 and in the New York City system? Do you know
18 what those two numbers are, approximately?
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: I might need to
20 ask someone from our correction side to join me.
21 (Pause.)
22 SENATOR STEC: I know. I can tell
23 them. I'll answer my own question. Sure, I'll
24 move us along.
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm sorry,
2403
1 Mr. President. While I'm looking for the answer,
2 apparently my questioner has the answer.
3 SENATOR STEC: Mr. President,
4 through you. I'll revise my question.
5 In New York City, according to the
6 Comptroller, the cost to incarcerate an
7 individual a year is $556,539 a year per inmate.
8 And the New York State Department of
9 Corrections average, according to a Columbia
10 University study from March of last year:
11 $79,879 a year. So that the 79,879 number, I'll
12 round it up to $80,000. Do you know what the
13 current household income threshold is to be
14 eligible in New York State for the Tuition
15 Assistance Program?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: The current
17 maximum is $80,000.
18 SENATOR STEC: That's right.
19 If you'd -- the sponsor would
20 continue to yield.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
22 yield?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR STEC: So the threshold for
2404
1 being eligible to receive TAP in New York State
2 is $80,000 -- coincidentally, the same amount
3 that it costs to incarcerate an individual.
4 More than half of my constituents
5 make less than household incomes of $80,000. Do
6 you know when the last time was that the TAP
7 threshold was increased by the Legislature? It's
8 $80,000 right now.
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: Quite a few
10 years.
11 Do you know?
12 SENATOR STEC: I do know --
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Oh, I'm sorry.
14 Mr. President, through you, if I might ask him to
15 answer the question.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Does the questioner
17 yield?
18 SENATOR STEC: I'd be delighted to
19 debate myself, Mr. President.
20 (Laughter.)
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: You're doing a
22 very good job.
23 SENATOR STEC: I'm not an attorney,
24 I've never been to law school, but I do know you
25 never ask a question you don't know the answer
2405
1 to.
2 Mr. President, the year 2000 --
3 22 years ago -- was the last time that that
4 threshold was adjusted. Now, in today's dollars
5 that's almost $132,000 a year -- again, for a
6 threshold for a family.
7 Do you know the cost estimate --
8 THE PRESIDENT: Sorry. Does the
9 sponsor -- do you yield for another question?
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: Of course I do.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. My
13 apologies.
14 THE PRESIDENT: I got you, don't
15 worry.
16 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
17 Appreciate that.
18 Do you know the cost estimate for
19 Part F to the taxpayer, according to the
20 Department of Budget? Do you know how much this
21 is going to cost taxpayers to extend tuition
22 assistance to incarcerated individuals?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: I believe it's
24 capped at $5 million.
25 SENATOR STEC: This -- through you,
2406
1 Mr. President, if the sponsor would continue to
2 yield.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
4 yield?
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
6 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
7 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
8 Does this budget tonight, or maybe
9 in a future bill, does it include any increase to
10 the TAP threshold? Or are we still at 80,000,
11 the same as we were in 2000?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: It's a great
13 question. Thank you, Mr. President.
14 We did try. We raised it to
15 $110,000 in our one-house. And through
16 negotiations, it -- we were not successful.
17 Of course we also have the
18 additional program that was started a few years
19 ago to help with tuition assistance at the CUNY
20 and SUNY systems called the Excelsior Scholarship
21 Program that also helps to decrease costs.
22 But no, so far we have not been able
23 to increase the TAP funding program.
24 Although I would like to add, since
25 I think it's relevant, for many years my husband,
2407
1 a college professor, pointed out instead of
2 sending people to prison we should send them to
3 college. It's approximately the same price for a
4 four-year degree as one year in prison. Some
5 will drop out, but a whole lot will get a college
6 education and probably never need to go to
7 prison.
8 SENATOR STEC: Through you,
9 Mr. President, if the sponsor will continue to
10 yield.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
12 yield?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Of course.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR STEC: One final question.
16 But as an aside, I'm pretty sure my
17 constituents wouldn't follow that logic train.
18 But I understand your point.
19 If there is no threshold income
20 increase but an expansion of eligibility to
21 inmates, is it fair to say that you are
22 prioritizing criminals over law-abiding
23 New Yorkers who are already enrolled in our
24 universities?
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: Absolutely not.
2408
1 We are not taking away any TAP from anyone,
2 because we are adding $5 million to the budget to
3 help ensure that some number of people who are
4 currently in our prison system can improve their
5 educational skills while in prison -- again,
6 based on research and data making it far less
7 likely they will ever return to our prison
8 system, saving the State of New York endless
9 amounts of money.
10 SENATOR STEC: On the bill,
11 Mr. President.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stec on the
13 bill.
14 SENATOR STEC: Thank you. Thank
15 you, Senator Krueger, for your time.
16 The advocacy groups that come to me
17 asking for things in higher education, the one
18 consistent thing that comes from all of them has
19 been a desire to see Tuition Assistance Program
20 income thresholds increased. They have not been
21 increased in 22 years. The kids that are
22 graduating from college today, the last time that
23 threshold was increased was the year they were
24 born.
25 And yet, coincidentally, as I
2409
1 pointed out in answering my own questions, that
2 the income threshold of $80,000 happens to be
3 almost the same number as the cost to incarcerate
4 an individual. This is a funny happenstance, but
5 it's another example of how the actions of these
6 legislative majorities and our past executives,
7 over the years, have -- and most recently, in
8 recent years since 2019 -- have prioritized the
9 needs of criminals and those that are
10 incarcerated, those that have taken from society.
11 And we have made it harder in recent
12 years, harder to earn your way into prison than
13 ever before. If you're in prison today, you've
14 had to do something awful in New York State to
15 get there. Because we've legalized and
16 decriminalized so much else.
17 While you're in prison today, we've
18 taken away all kinds of deterrents and behavior
19 controls that keep not only our staff and
20 corrections officers safe, but the very inmates
21 that a bill like this is looking to serve and
22 help. We're hurting their safety by not allowing
23 certain control measures that used to be in place
24 in prisons.
25 We are now making the argument that
2410
1 somehow we are better off spending taxpayers'
2 money on giving them a college education. These
3 are people that have taken from society. My
4 constituents won't go for this. I reckon the
5 vast majority of our constituents won't go for
6 it. I'm fine going to the voters on Election Day
7 on that issue and that position.
8 But I just -- I want to highlight
9 that the $80,000 that it costs to incarcerate
10 somebody that's preyed on society happens to be
11 the threshold that if you make $80,001 as a
12 family, your kid doesn't qualify for TAP. But
13 you're going to pay for somebody that's
14 incarcerated's college education. You ought to
15 call it "Crime pays."
16 I'll be opposed to this bill for
17 Part F alone, but there's more.
18 Thank you, Mr. President.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Serino,
20 Senator Krueger is back.
21 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
22 Mr. President. Will the sponsor --
23 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
24 yield?
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: I will happily
2411
1 yield.
2 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
4 Senator Krueger.
5 So my first question is on SSI.
6 And, you know, facilities that are caring for our
7 low-income individuals that are paid through SSI
8 have only had one rate increase in more than 20
9 years, which has resulted in closures of these
10 facilities across the state, as I had mentioned
11 earlier.
12 In the past the Senate has
13 championed legislation to phase in an increase to
14 the SSI rate, which would help support some of
15 our most vulnerable neighbors. So do you know,
16 does the final budget contain any funding to
17 increase this rate?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm sorry,
19 Senator Serino, is there a specific part of the
20 bill that you're referencing where you're seeing
21 something about this?
22 SENATOR SERINO: Ooh, do you know
23 what? I don't remember which part it was for the
24 assisted living facilities.
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: So not in this
2412
1 bill.
2 SENATOR SERINO: Maybe it's the
3 final budget bill, I'm sorry. Overall.
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'd hate to give
5 you a wrong answer, Senator Serino, but I'm not
6 necessarily getting an answer that -- to give
7 you.
8 I think that there is not an
9 increase for the personal needs allowance in SSI
10 for assisted living. And I think you are correct
11 that it has been many decades and that it raises
12 a real concern for the assisted living
13 facilities, specifically for people with SSI.
14 And that there are real costs involved with that.
15 I also, though, know that there's
16 quite a bit of money that the Governor has
17 intended to be used to expand the housing options
18 and services available to people who are living
19 in residential facilities or need residential
20 facilities. So I don't know tonight whether
21 there's some interpretation that could be used
22 that would allow us to provide assistance to
23 facilities that are financially in trouble and
24 are taking care of, through assisted living, SSI
25 vulnerable people.
2413
1 So I'd be very interested in
2 following up with you, after maybe 2 o'clock this
3 morning -- that's an estimate for the end of this
4 budget -- to see whether there's any new
5 categories that we might be able to use
6 creatively to assist. Because I certainly agree
7 with you: This has been a problem for many years
8 that only gets worse.
9 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
10 Mr. President, if the sponsor --
11 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
12 yield?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Of course.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
16 Senator Krueger. You know, I've been talking
17 about this for years. And, you know, we've had
18 financial challenges before, but with the budget
19 being, you know, rather flush this year, I
20 thought it was a perfect opportunity.
21 I know earlier when we talked about
22 assisted living and the 1.5 billion I think that
23 Senator Rivera had mentioned was for capital
24 costs. So this could be available for other
25 expenses that our seniors would use.
2414
1 My other question is about home care
2 workers. So -- because of course -- oh.
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: One moment.
4 SENATOR SERINO: Okay.
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: We like to give
6 staff a workout, so they need to keep coming and
7 going.
8 You know what? You get a better
9 Senator. Senator May would love to answer your
10 questions about home care.
11 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you.
12 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
13 yield?
14 SENATOR MAY: I do.
15 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
16 SENATOR SERINO: Thank you,
17 Senator May.
18 You know, I was very disappointed to
19 see the watered-down language involving the pay
20 for the home care workers. The measure that has
21 bipartisan support in this chamber would raise
22 wages to 150 percent of the minimum wage. So is
23 it correct that this measure only raises wages $3
24 per hour -- which is less than half of what's
25 proposed under the Fair Pay for Home Care -- and
2415
1 that that minimal raise isn't even immediate but
2 actually I think it's spread out over two years?
3 SENATOR MAY: That's correct.
4 SENATOR SERINO: That's -- you
5 know, through you, Mr. President --
6 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
7 yield?
8 SENATOR MAY: I do.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
10 SENATOR SERINO: You know, the
11 pandemic has exposed a massive home care worker
12 shortage, and it's only going to get worse. We
13 really need to do everything that we can to be
14 able to have our seniors, who built our
15 communities to what they are, actually be able to
16 age in place.
17 Attracting qualified New Yorkers in
18 this field needed to be a top priority in this
19 budget, and we really failed them. So do you
20 think a $2 per hour raise next year is enough to
21 attract and maintain workers in the home care
22 field?
23 SENATOR MAY: Through you,
24 Mr. President. No one has fought harder than I
25 have for the full 150 percent increase in the
2416
1 minimum wage for home care workers. But there
2 are realities in a budget, and there needed to be
3 three-way agreement on this, and this was the
4 amount we were able to secure.
5 So I hope that we will continue
6 working to get it up to the 150 amount. We at
7 least got -- and the Majority Leader worked very
8 hard to make sure that it was front-loaded so
9 that the raise in the first year moves the
10 minimum wage upstate above the minimum wage for
11 fast food workers. That was an absolutely key
12 piece of this legislation for me. And I am proud
13 that we actually managed to do that within the
14 constraints that we had. That, at the very
15 least, is happening.
16 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
17 Mr. President, will the sponsor continue to
18 yield. Thank you.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
20 yield?
21 SENATOR MAY: Yes, I will.
22 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR SERINO: You know, there
24 was so much money in this budget. And once
25 again -- and I know we can all relate, right --
2417
1 our seniors are always left behind. And we need
2 to have the money for the home care workers. We
3 have to be taking care of them.
4 The other part of that question,
5 too, is the -- because this applies to our
6 seniors and to our loved ones. Is the Family
7 Caregiver Tax Credit anywhere in this final state
8 budget? I believe in the one-house there was
9 35 million allotted for this credit that would --
10 as we know, it would make a world of difference
11 for the countless family caregivers in New York
12 who provide billions of dollars in unpaid care
13 each and every single year.
14 SENATOR MAY: It is also something
15 that is not in the budget. Also something I have
16 fought very hard for year after year, and will
17 continue to fight for.
18 SENATOR SERINO: Through you,
19 Mr. President --
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR MAY: I do. But I would
23 appreciate some assistance here.
24 SENATOR SERINO: Well, you know
25 what? Actually, on the bill.
2418
1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Serino on
2 the bill.
3 SENATOR SERINO: Yeah. Thank you,
4 Senator May.
5 You know, as I said, and I talk
6 about it all the time, our seniors are always
7 left behind. Once again, you know, we have a
8 perfect opportunity. We have our family
9 caregivers -- that care credit was so important.
10 That's left out of this bill.
11 You know, there are some good
12 things, I admit, in the budget bill that I've
13 advocated fiercely for, like school aid, of
14 course, and long-awaited bonuses for healthcare
15 workers.
16 And I'm especially proud to see a
17 long-awaited measure in here that would finally
18 elevate our current Division of Veterans' Affairs
19 to a full-fledged administrative state agency, a
20 move that will hopefully streamline and improve
21 access to veterans' services and programs. You
22 know, this is something that veterans and many
23 of -- all of our communities have pushed for and
24 that I am so proud to have cosponsored.
25 But unfortunately, despite these
2419
1 good measures, this bill falls short. It fails
2 to include funding for critical programs that
3 serve our most vulnerable despite, as I've
4 mentioned, a massive budget surplus.
5 And most importantly, it fails to
6 take the public safety concerns of so many
7 New Yorkers seriously. These changes to our
8 broken bail laws once again were negotiated
9 behind closed doors, pushed through for a vote
10 late at night, as we can see, and leave many
11 serious concerns totally unaddressed. And most
12 importantly, it still leaves too many victims
13 vulnerable.
14 You know, I thank Senator Bailey for
15 answering some of my questions before. But what
16 I heard in the answers was that domestic violence
17 didn't influence change in the second changes nor
18 did it influence change in the third changes. So
19 not only do the domestic violence victims run the
20 risk of being held captive by their partner, but
21 by these laws as well.
22 So therefore victims of domestic
23 violence still have no voice, nor have they been
24 able to influence changes in this terrible bill.
25 That is so shameful.
2420
1 So once again this chamber is
2 sending the message to criminals that New York is
3 not willing to hold them accountable. We had the
4 opportunity this year to do things differently,
5 but unfortunately New Yorkers are getting more of
6 the same. It's not right. We can do better.
7 And we absolutely must.
8 I vote no, Mr. President. Thank
9 you.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Martucci.
11 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
12 Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield?
13 THE PRESIDENT: What section are
14 you --
15 SENATOR MARTUCCI: I'm going to be
16 talking about the first section -- we've changed
17 the playbook here a little bit. I guess I'm
18 going to go to Section II. These are questions
19 about the proposed 485-w program.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
25 Senator Krueger.
2421
1 Just a question. So certainly from
2 my perspective and the perspective of some of my
3 colleagues, the 421-a program, which is slated to
4 expire -- as you probably know, Governor Hochul
5 in her Executive Budget proposal had made a
6 proposal with respect to the 485-w program. I
7 see in the bill language that this program has
8 been rejected, and I was wondering if perhaps the
9 sponsor knew if -- or what other program
10 potentially will be taken up in a later budget
11 bill or maybe later on in the session, outside of
12 the scope of the budget, that would be focused on
13 creating affordable housing in New York City.
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
15 So you're correct, there is no 421-a
16 in the budget. There is no replacement for it as
17 originally proposed by the Governor, which I
18 believe was 485-w. So that is also not anywhere
19 to be found in the budget.
20 And I think that most of the
21 Legislature believes that the creation of
22 affordable housing is a crucial issue, although
23 this is a New York City-specific program because
24 it's been funded by New York City property taxes.
25 So speaking as a New York City resident, we
2422
1 recognize that affordable housing is crucial to
2 our future.
3 And we are very much interested in
4 having conversations and coming up with a public
5 policy that will translate into a justifiable
6 cost-benefit ratio. The 421-a program, through
7 research, has been shown to be unbelievably
8 inefficient in creating any affordable housing,
9 and recent reports show that as little as
10 51 units out of 8,000 built recently are actually
11 affordable.
12 So I don't think if someone said to
13 you, Give me money for 8,000 housing units and
14 I'll build you 51 affordable, that you would put
15 that very high up on your list of successful
16 affordable programs. We in New York City
17 certainly don't think it's successful. And we
18 would love to come up with a better model.
19 And I would be very happy to talk to
20 you about proposals you might have after the
21 budget's done.
22 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you.
23 Thank you, Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield
24 for another question?
25 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
2423
1 yield?
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Okay. So --
5 certainly, thank you for your response, and we
6 look forward to those conversations to come.
7 So then maybe just a little bit more
8 broadly, because it is clear that the Legislature
9 has rejected the Governor's proposal -- you know,
10 the 485-w -- what plan exists maybe within the
11 budget, since that's the bill that's before the
12 house, that would be helpful in terms of helping
13 create more affordable housing, since this was
14 not included?
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Well, the
16 Governor has a $4.5 billion affordable housing
17 plan, a statewide program, in her budget, and we
18 are moving forward with that.
19 So there are any number of different
20 models that I believe that money will be going
21 towards paying for. And again, different places
22 in the state, different models work, so that's
23 actually a very promising start.
24 I know that I've been working with
25 colleagues from the city, the City Council,
2424
1 borough presidents, city comptroller, and
2 academics doing research about what has worked
3 and what has not worked in the past in New York
4 City to try to come up with better models for
5 New York City, again, in choosing to use its own
6 property tax money to pay for items.
7 I think one of the issues for us
8 here in Albany, and we need to think hard about
9 it, is property taxes are the only taxes we allow
10 our localities to control for themselves. So I'm
11 not sure why we think in Albany we are the ones
12 to determine how those property taxes ought to be
13 spent on any specific program -- but, rather, to
14 actually let the localities help determine or
15 determine completely, without any state law at
16 all, how they would like to use their funds to
17 get the maximum win for the kinds of housing they
18 need.
19 So I personally am not convinced
20 this should be a state program, period.
21 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
22 Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield for
23 another question?
24 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
25 yield?
2425
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
2 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
4 Senator Krueger.
5 And I certainly understand -- you
6 know, your position certainly is one of merit,
7 and I appreciate your thoughts on that.
8 With respect to those programs that
9 you were talking about that the Governor had
10 introduced that we're supporting in this bill
11 here before the house, is there a number of
12 units? Like how many units do we think,
13 affordable units, are actually going to be
14 produced from the aggregate of these number of
15 programs that you were referring to before?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: We believe her
17 estimate was 100,000 with the 4.5 billion.
18 That's a five-year plan.
19 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
20 Senator.
21 Mr. President, I do have additional
22 questions but I understand that we're just
23 logistically going to put them off for a little
24 bit. So I thank Senator Krueger for her time,
25 and I will be speaking with you again soon, it
2426
1 sounds like.
2 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
3 Senator Kennedy has arrived, so Senator Martucci
4 can continue.
5 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Mr. President,
6 will the sponsor yield for a question?
7 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
8 yield?
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yes,
10 Mr. President, I yield.
11 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
12 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Good evening.
13 My questions are with respect to Part YY, the
14 transfer of the Buffalo Bills stadium.
15 So, Mr. President, through you, I
16 noticed in reading the bill that's before the
17 house that there's a proposal to transfer
18 property, which is the Buffalo Bills stadium,
19 from Erie County to a corporation that's owned or
20 will be owned by ESD, so effectively it would be
21 translating that property over to the State of
22 New York.
23 And my question is with respect to
24 the ongoing costs of the maintenance and
25 operation of this property. Is there an
2427
1 estimated fiscal, a yearly cost to maintain this
2 property once it becomes property of the state?
3 SENATOR KENNEDY: Through you,
4 Mr. President. First of all, let me thank my
5 colleague from across the aisle for the questions
6 and for bringing up this very important topic.
7 On the bill, Mr. President, let me
8 just start by saying how important it is that we
9 keep the Buffalo Bills in the great City of
10 Buffalo in Western New York. The Buffalo Bills
11 are a part of the fabric of who we are as a
12 community, as a region, and as a state.
13 And, you know, I know we talk about
14 our sports teams with great passion in this house
15 and in our respective communities across the
16 state. But I can tell you there's no greater
17 fans than the Buffalo Bills.' And I will tell
18 you there's no greater state for the Buffalo
19 Bills to reside in than the great State of
20 New York.
21 And by the way, Mr. President, the
22 only New York State football team, for those of
23 you that are keeping score, is the Buffalo Bills.
24 And the Buffalo Bills bring hundreds of millions
25 in economic input to the state, year after year.
2428
1 We -- they create thousands of jobs in Western
2 New York and arguably across the state, filling
3 bars, filling restaurants, filling hotel rooms.
4 The income taxes provided by the team alone,
5 Mr. President, is over $20 million, upwards of
6 $27 million. And rising, by the way, as the
7 salary cap rises.
8 And so we expect over the course of
9 the length of this lease agreement -- which
10 arguably is one of the best agreements ever
11 signed between any football team, any community
12 in any state -- we will see the expense of public
13 dollars not only matched but exceeded by the
14 income tax collected alone from the funding that
15 the team generates. So -- in salaries alone.
16 So that's just for starters,
17 Mr. President. The Buffalo Bills, the fabric of
18 our community -- the only team in the great State
19 of New York and a team that not only our
20 community in Western New York can ill afford to
21 lose, but this great state can ill afford to
22 lose -- must stay in Western New York.
23 And because of that, the Governor
24 took it upon herself, along with the county
25 executive in Erie County and the great Buffalo
2429
1 Bills organization -- which, by the way, for
2 those of you that are paying attention, are on
3 the rise. They had a great season -- to put
4 together an extraordinary deal for the taxpayers
5 not only in Western New York, but in New York
6 State, and for those of us that are Bills fans.
7 And I'm hoping, Mr. President, that
8 my colleague across the aisle who happens to be
9 asking these questions calls himself a Buffalo
10 Bills fan, as they're the only team to play in
11 this great state.
12 Would my colleague across the aisle
13 yield for a question?
14 (Laughter.)
15 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Mine first.
16 (Laughter.)
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Mr. President,
18 thank you. There's a rumor going around that my
19 colleague across the aisle is a New England
20 Patriots fan. Is this true?
21 (Laughter; booing.)
22 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Mr. President,
23 I'll only answer if the sponsor yields and
24 answers my question.
25 (Laughter.)
2430
1 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Kennedy,
2 would you like to answer the sponsor's question?
3 SENATOR KENNEDY: Repeat the -- can
4 you please repeat the --
5 SENATOR MARTUCCI: I will, it's a
6 very long time ago. I will repeat it,
7 Mr. President.
8 THE PRESIDENT: You'll answer his
9 question; he'll answer yours.
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: Understood,
11 Mr. President. But feel free.
12 SENATOR MARTUCCI: So my question
13 is with respect to the operating costs -- I'm
14 guessing later we're going to talk a little bit
15 about the capital costs of the program. But the
16 operating costs. When this becomes part of
17 New York State, which is what's proposed in
18 Section YY, what's the year-over-year operating
19 cost to the people of the State of New York?
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thirteen-point-
21 seven million dollars, Mr. President. Through
22 you.
23 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
24 Mr. President. Will the sponsor continue to
25 yield?
2431
1 THE PRESIDENT: Do you want to
2 answer his question?
3 SENATOR MARTUCCI: I don't know
4 what his question was.
5 SENATOR KENNEDY: Mr. President --
6 through you, Mr. President, what NFL team does my
7 colleague across the aisle root for?
8 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Mr. President,
9 through you, I'm certainly not a fan of Tom
10 Brady, and that needs to be recorded in the
11 record. I'm a Jets fan, Mr. President.
12 SENATOR KENNEDY: Ah, for --
13 (Reaction from members.)
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: Through you,
15 Mr. President, that explains a lot.
16 (Laughter.)
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: But,
18 Mr. President, I will yield.
19 THE PRESIDENT: You yield.
20 The sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
22 Mr. President.
23 So with respect to the project as
24 outlined, one of the things that Senator Kennedy
25 mentioned was about the site and how important it
2432
1 is to keep the Buffalo Bills in Buffalo. How was
2 this particular site selected for this project?
3 SENATOR KENNEDY: Through you,
4 Mr. President. Look -- and I will -- I will --
5 I'm trying to be nice to my colleague. The
6 New Jersey Jets? I mean ...
7 The site was selected,
8 Mr. President, through an ongoing process over a
9 number of years, quite frankly. Studies were
10 done by the local community, studies were done by
11 the Buffalo Bills. And after many different
12 studies and many different conversations and
13 debates, public and private, the site was
14 selected by the state, the county, and the
15 Buffalo Bills to locate this new stadium, which
16 will be the largest infrastructure project in the
17 history of our community, in the place that has
18 been chosen.
19 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Mr. President,
20 will the sponsor continue to yield.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
22 yield?
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Of course.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR MARTUCCI: So, you know,
2433
1 the reason I ask that question is certainly
2 because we've heard that, you know, perhaps --
3 you know, maybe the site would be located in the
4 City of Buffalo or other places in the Buffalo
5 area.
6 But with respect to the actual site
7 that was selected, I know one of the huge
8 priorities of the Majority is meeting the goals
9 of CLCPA and transit. Is there any transit
10 connection plan that's going to be implemented
11 with respect to this project? Just so that, you
12 know, every single fan that comes to the stadium
13 won't have to drive? Will it be connected
14 somehow?
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: Through you,
16 Mr. President, a great question.
17 As the chair of Transportation, I've
18 actually been working with the chairwoman of the
19 Erie County Legislature, April Baskin, the
20 Buffalo Bills organization and Pegula Sports and
21 Entertainment, as well as the Niagara Frontier
22 Transportation Authority, to put in place more
23 accessible transportation through the planning
24 process and ultimately being implemented to
25 greater connect our Western New York community to
2434
1 this new stadium.
2 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Mr. President,
3 will the sponsor continue to yield.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
5 yield?
6 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yes, I will,
7 Mr. President.
8 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
9 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
10 Senator Kennedy.
11 Through you, Mr. President, Senator
12 Kennedy was talking about some of the benefits of
13 the program, proposed program. Certainly
14 economic benefits with respect to jobs and other
15 economic activity in the region. Is there any
16 other program connected to this proposed deal --
17 like say, for example, a community benefit
18 agreement that would provide additional benefits,
19 given the a large sum of public dollars that are
20 being put into the program?
21 SENATOR KENNEDY: Through you,
22 Mr. President, yes, there is a commitment of a
23 community benefits agreement between the Buffalo
24 Bills, the state, and the county.
25 The county executive has made it
2435
1 part of his commitment to negotiate this
2 community benefits agreement with the Western
3 New York community. He's already established
4 that the chairwoman of the Erie County
5 Legislature, who I have already mentioned, will
6 be a part of that team of negotiators in putting
7 this community benefits agreement together.
8 The bottom line, Mr. President, is
9 that this stadium is going to create -- while
10 it's establishing itself as the home of the Bills
11 for the next generation of Bills fans --
12 thousands of jobs. In construction jobs alone,
13 12,000 construction jobs will be created out of
14 the gate.
15 There is a commitment to make sure
16 that there is diversity in hiring, that there is
17 a creation of, again, more accessibility and more
18 inclusion, as well as giving back to the
19 community. Not to mention -- let me just say
20 this because I think it's important to mention.
21 You know, we talk about the investment in the
22 Buffalo Bills and the creation of jobs and the
23 fabric of our community and ensuring that they're
24 locked in for decades to come into Western
25 New York. I think it's essential that we talk
2436
1 about where they've come from.
2 You know, back in 1960 Ralph Wilson
3 brought the Buffalo Bills to Buffalo before the
4 NFL even existed. It was part of the AFL. And
5 for five years, the Buffalo Bills played in the
6 AFL.
7 Ralph Wilson was a founding member
8 of the NFL. Ralph Wilson died several years ago.
9 And what he did is he put in place a system to
10 which the Buffalo Bills have the best chance to
11 stay in our community. And by setting up the
12 foundation that ultimately negotiated, the
13 transfer to the new owners, the Pegula family,
14 Terry and Kim Pegula, there was an establishment
15 of a foundation, the Ralph C. Wilson Foundation.
16 That foundation, that foundation has committed to
17 spending in our community and in the City of
18 Detroit, where Ralph C. Wilson spent his
19 childhood, a billion dollars over the 20 years of
20 this -- the existence of that funding that was
21 brought on by the purchase of the Bills from the
22 Pegulas.
23 In that commitment, that money has
24 already been seeing the fruits of its labor take
25 root. Right over on the waterfront, on the West
2437
1 Side of Buffalo is LaSalle Park. LaSalle Park is
2 soon going to be called Ralph C. Wilson, Jr.
3 Park. A hundred million dollar transformation
4 right in the heart of the City of Buffalo, right
5 in the community of need.
6 Not only that, Mr. President, but
7 there's an investment in the youth of our
8 community. And through the Ralph C. Wilson
9 Foundation and the board that's chartered to
10 spend this money that Ralph C. Wilson so
11 generously gave to our community -- after his
12 passing and through his widow, Mary Wilson, and
13 her team -- they have ensured that the next
14 generation of Buffalonians and Western
15 New Yorkers are invested in.
16 And so whether it's youth sports or
17 inner city youth or capital investments, we have
18 seen investment after investment from the
19 Buffalo Bills take root.
20 And so I'm very excited about where
21 we're headed here, Mr. President. And with that,
22 I'll open it up to any other questions my
23 colleague has.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Gianaris.
25 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President, I
2438
1 want to remind my great colleague from Buffalo --
2 I know he's got great enthusiasm on this issue in
3 particular.
4 (Laughter.)
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: But we are
6 trying to get through the night, and we've agreed
7 with the Minority that our time speaking is not
8 coming off of their time speaking.
9 So brevity, brevity, everybody.
10 (Laughter.)
11 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
12 Senator Gianaris.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Okay. All right.
14 Go ahead.
15 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Mr. President,
16 he sounds like he was a wonderful man, I'll start
17 by saying that.
18 (Laughter.)
19 SENATOR MARTUCCI: He certainly
20 sounds like he was a wonderful man to Buffalo.
21 But if the sponsor continues to
22 yield. I only have a few more questions, I
23 promise.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Will the sponsor
25 yield?
2439
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: I will. I will,
2 Mr. President.
3 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
4 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you.
5 So, you know, look -- I think that
6 one of the other questions I have sort of just in
7 general about this is, you know, the last time
8 that there was a stadium attempt here in
9 New York -- and maybe I'm a little sore about it
10 because it was a Jets attempt, right? But it was
11 back in 2005. Very famously, then Speaker
12 Sheldon Silver blocked this project with the use
13 of his appointee to the Public Authorities
14 Control Board.
15 You know, and today we're taking
16 some steps to forward the transfer right now,
17 immediately -- in this bill we're taking the
18 steps to forward transfer of this property to the
19 State of New York. And I'm assuming in a bill to
20 come in the next couple of hours we're going to
21 have some relatively large appropriation with
22 respect to this project.
23 So does the sponsor have any concern
24 that the Public Authorities Control Board might
25 stop or block or have concerns about this project
2440
1 even after we take these steps?
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: Through you,
3 Mr. President, no.
4 Mr. President, was that brief
5 enough?
6 (Laughter.)
7 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, Senator
8 Kennedy.
9 SENATOR MARTUCCI: That was a
10 perfect answer. Thank you, Mr. President.
11 Mr. President, if the sponsor will
12 yield, I have just a couple more questions.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
14 yield?
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: Certainly.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR MARTUCCI: I'm trying --
18 you know, I'm beginning to understand this deal.
19 Because as the sponsor is probably aware, we did
20 not have the opportunity to review this in the
21 Executive Budget proposal or in either one-house.
22 So we sort of knew what we knew about this deal
23 from press releases, the news, what we heard
24 about -- Twitter was a great source of
25 information on this project.
2441
1 And one of the things that we see
2 today is that the state is actually going to own
3 this stadium. Are there any other models like
4 this anywhere else in the country where a state
5 owns an NFL stadium?
6 SENATOR KENNEDY: Through you,
7 Mr. President, I am personally unaware in this
8 moment.
9 However, what I do know is that not
10 only in New York but in other communities across
11 the country, the public has played an integral
12 role in ensuring that sports teams either stay in
13 or are attracted to respective communities.
14 And without the commitment that we
15 are seeing today that was put in place with the
16 leadership of Governor Hochul, County Executive
17 Poloncarz, and the Buffalo Bills to ensure that
18 the Bills stadium is created in Western New York,
19 and the Buffalo Bills stay in Buffalo -- on
20 September 1st, the Buffalo Bills organization has
21 the ability to go speak to other cities,
22 according to the contract that they signed about
23 a decade ago. That means that other cities and
24 other states are going to be able to start
25 bidding and whispering in their ears what those
2442
1 cities and those states will do to attract the
2 Buffalo Bills to their community.
3 We didn't want to lose the leverage
4 of ensuring that the Bills stay in Buffalo. So
5 the timing was absolutely perfect to get this
6 deal done. I'm proud that this deal was sealed.
7 And I'm excited that next year, when the Buffalo
8 Bills win the Super Bowl, we're going to be
9 celebrating in Buffalo and not some far-off
10 distant place, Mr. President.
11 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you.
12 Mr. President, will the sponsor
13 yield for a final question?
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: Certainly.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
19 Mr. President. Through you.
20 And certainly I'll understand if the
21 sponsor would prefer to answer this when we have
22 the bill that contains the appropriation for the
23 stadium in front of us. But if you're able to
24 answer it now, that's perfectly fine as well.
25 But we've been hearing a lot about
2443
1 what the public share is for the stadium, and
2 there's been a lot of questions about the size of
3 the public's share with respect to the capital
4 project. You know, we're hearing a tremendous
5 sum of money from the Seneca Nation. We're
6 hearing about $250 million from the county, Erie
7 County, where you call home. And then we're
8 hearing about some additional state money glued
9 together.
10 So could you outline the capital
11 funding structure of this deal and the use of the
12 public dollars in the project?
13 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yes,
14 Mr. President, I would be thrilled to outline the
15 capital portion of this budget during the capital
16 conversation of this budget.
17 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
18 Mr. President. Understood, and fair enough. So
19 we'll talk about that later.
20 On the bill.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Martucci on
22 the bill.
23 SENATOR MARTUCCI: First of all, I
24 want to thank my colleague Senator Kennedy for
25 answering my questions and giving me a history
2444
1 lesson on Russell {sic} Wilson, who sounded like
2 an amazing person to Buffalo and a -- certainly a
3 great New Yorker.
4 But, you know, look. Mr. President,
5 of course we want to keep the Bills here in the
6 State of New York. Even us Jets fans want to
7 make sure the Bills stay here. But what we want
8 to make sure is that it's a fair deal for the
9 people of the State of New York, because we're
10 being asked to pony up a huge sum of money on
11 this project.
12 And as I called out before, the
13 concern is that we didn't have an opportunity to
14 review this in either one-house, we didn't see it
15 in the Governor's Executive Budget proposal. We
16 read about it in the news, we found out about it
17 via press release.
18 And this is really our opportunity
19 to air this out. So that's why I wanted to ask
20 Senator Kennedy those questions and get those
21 clarifications.
22 But again, like I said, this is
23 certainly not about not wanting the Bills, this
24 is about making sure we deliver a fair deal for
25 the people of the State of New York.
2445
1 One of my colleagues said it before,
2 is that there are realities in the budget and,
3 you know, hard decisions have to be made in the
4 budget. And again, my concern is just making
5 sure that we look at the realities of this
6 project and we're making sure that we're using
7 public dollars in an appropriate way, as we
8 always should be.
9 Thank you, Mr. President.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tedisco.
11 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you,
12 Mr. President. Would the Senator yield --
13 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
14 yield?
15 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR TEDISCO: -- answer some
18 questions? Thank you, Senator, very much.
19 Senator, before I ask you just a
20 couple of questions -- because I know we've got
21 to be a little bit quicker, we're getting into
22 the midnight hours here -- I just want to go on
23 record because I don't want to leave tonight you
24 thinking or anybody on that side thinking that we
25 don't support criminal justice on this side. We
2446
1 do. And I think you do. And I think all of us
2 in this room do.
3 But we have a different concept of
4 what leads to that. You know, we support a just,
5 equitable, fair system for alleged perpetrators
6 and certainly for the victims. And as you're
7 reflective over there, I hear what you're saying,
8 because your constituents --
9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tedisco,
10 are you on the bill or are you asking a question?
11 SENATOR TEDISCO: Yes, I'm going to
12 ask him a question.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Well, wait, no.
14 Are you on the bill or -- not both, it's one or
15 the other. Are you on the bill or asking a
16 question?
17 SENATOR TEDISCO: I'm asking a
18 question.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Okay. All right.
20 SENATOR TEDISCO: And leading to my
21 question about you and I and everybody else
22 wanting to have a good criminal justice system,
23 we have a different concept of it.
24 And our constituents are very
25 concerned about the fact that these are not
2447
1 minimalistic crimes we're talking about. We
2 don't want anybody stealing a banana or taking a
3 shirt or doing these small, simple crimes.
4 What we're talking about -- and this
5 is going to lead to my question about what their
6 concerns are, so you better understand from my
7 vantage point. And I think what you're hearing
8 from my colleagues, they have the same vantage
9 points, from what we're hearing, and we're
10 reflective of that, because we're
11 representatives.
12 We hear a lot about -- and I'll give
13 you an illustration. And I'll ask you this
14 question now. Senator, there are these
15 individuals who have committed very serious
16 violent crimes in the past. Okay? Maybe a
17 violent robbery where someone was seriously
18 injured or a burglary or a mugging or even a
19 murder.
20 And then they ask us, when they go
21 before the judge, why can't the judge consider --
22 and maybe it's in this third generation of what
23 you're doing in terms of reform. Why can't the
24 judge consider the violence that took place in
25 the past when it's some of these, as Senator
2448
1 O'Mara said -- he's given you a pretty good list.
2 Let's face it, when you knock down an old lady
3 and take her pocketbook, I think you agree that's
4 a violent crime. But you probably can get
5 released for that, I would imagine.
6 So is there anything in here that
7 allows a judge, with someone that comes before
8 them, to consider the violence that took place in
9 the past? Because they're concerned about that.
10 Chronic individuals, committed several violent
11 crimes. Now, semi-violent, you might call them;
12 I think we call them more serious crimes.
13 Is there any consideration for that
14 in this so-called criminal justice cash bail
15 adjustment?
16 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
17 Mr. President. Senator Tedisco mentioned in his
18 question the notion of violent felonies. Violent
19 felonies are currently bail-eligible, depending
20 on the nature of the offense, and they would
21 remain bail-eligible depending on the nature of
22 the offense.
23 But I'd like to point out -- and
24 Senator Tedisco and all of our good colleagues on
25 the other side of the aisle, about -- and you
2449
1 spoke about this, I think it's the perfect time
2 to illustrate that -- that the American justice
3 system is based upon and predicated upon the
4 presumption of innocence until proven guilty.
5 When I hear crimes enumerated and
6 whether they're bail-eligible or not, the last I
7 checked, that bail does not automatically lead to
8 a conviction. The last I checked, the
9 accusations are not dispositive of convictions.
10 So to answer the initial question,
11 it would depend on the nature of the offense.
12 And they have been considered, based upon the
13 repeat offender language, considered in this new
14 iteration, as you refer to -- part three, as you
15 said, of this legislation.
16 SENATOR TEDISCO: Will the
17 gentleman yield?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
19 SENATOR TEDISCO: So what kind of
20 crimes could the judge look at, the previous
21 violent crimes, and say I'm going to have to take
22 you off the street because I feel you're a danger
23 to yourself or a danger to others?
24 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
25 Mr. President, criminal history is always able to
2450
1 be reviewed by a judge in determining whether an
2 offense is bail-eligible.
3 SENATOR TEDISCO: They can use that
4 as a factor to take them off the streets?
5 THE PRESIDENT: Will the sponsor
6 yield for --
7 SENATOR TEDISCO: Yes.
8 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
9 Absolutely.
10 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields,
11 okay.
12 SENATOR TEDISCO: And they can use
13 that as a factor to take them off the streets?
14 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
15 Mr. President, in determining whether the offense
16 is bail-eligible, yes.
17 SENATOR TEDISCO: Let me ask you
18 this.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tedisco,
20 through the chair, ask the sponsor to yield.
21 SENATOR BAILEY: I yield.
22 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR TEDISCO: Yeah, I'm used to
24 being in the Assembly.
25 THE PRESIDENT: I know, but we're
2451
1 not there.
2 SENATOR TEDISCO: We just talk it
3 out. We're just like a freak show out there, you
4 know.
5 (Laughter.)
6 SENATOR TEDISCO: Okay. Through
7 you.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, good. Does
9 the sponsor yield?
10 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes,
11 Mr. President.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR TEDISCO: What also they
14 don't understand is we've given individuals the
15 opportunity -- I know they're alleged, in terms
16 of their crimes. They come before the judge and
17 certainly judges have told us, you know, Sure, I
18 felt this person was a danger to himself or
19 herself or others, but I couldn't take them off
20 the streets, cash-bail type of thing, so I had to
21 let them go. My constituents don't understand.
22 When they run and they don't show
23 up, they've been given one chance, one bite at
24 the apple, okay. And then our law enforcement,
25 who have arrested them once, has to go chase them
2452
1 down and arrest them again. And while they're
2 doing that, Senator, there are other serious
3 crimes taking place.
4 The suggestion in your deal is these
5 are not serious crimes so, you know, they come
6 back. And then what happens when they come back,
7 it seems as though they're doing double taxpayer
8 dollars to get them, bring them back, serious
9 crimes are taking place, we're using our men and
10 women power, taxpayers' dollars to arrest them
11 again. And it seems as though they're also
12 letting go again, maybe, a second time when they
13 come back. And then again, we don't give the
14 judge discretion to say, We gave you one bite at
15 the apple and you didn't come back for justice.
16 At some point they've got to go
17 before the court, even though they're alleged to
18 have committed this crime. They haven't shown up
19 to face the justice system.
20 And that's their concern. Is there
21 any change in this thing for that?
22 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
23 Mr. President, I was able to glean that the
24 question is related to an individual, an accused
25 individual's rate of return to court. Would that
2453
1 be accurate, Senator Tedisco? I just want to --
2 SENATOR TEDISCO: Sure.
3 SENATOR BAILEY: Okay. So --
4 SENATOR TEDISCO: -- broken the law
5 when they didn't show up, even though they were
6 alleged. They were supposed to show up, given
7 the ticket.
8 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
9 Mr. President. Generally speaking, the return
10 of -- the rate of return of individuals to court
11 is generally very high. And even if an
12 individual does not return to court, there are
13 remedies that are available.
14 SENATOR TEDISCO: Would the
15 gentleman yield.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
17 yield?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Yes.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR TEDISCO: And a second
21 byproduct is that when they leave and are not
22 showing up, they commit another crime. Don't you
23 think that if they committed another crime when
24 they're supposed to be coming before the justice
25 system from the one before that the judge should
2454
1 have the opportunity, at least in those
2 instances, to say: We've given you one bite at
3 the apple. How many bites can we give you when
4 we release you and you commit another crime?
5 That's not bailable, okay, according
6 to the rules. But there's a big list there that
7 seems to be. In that instance, too, the judge --
8 there's nothing in here for the judge to make a
9 determination?
10 SENATOR BAILEY: Mr. President,
11 again, the clarifying language that we set forth
12 in the statute is related to repeat offenders.
13 So I think, depending on the nature
14 of the offense that the Senator is speaking
15 about, that this is precisely what the intent of
16 the soon-to-be statute -- we hope -- would
17 effectuate.
18 SENATOR TEDISCO: Okay, would the
19 gentleman yield again for a question.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR BAILEY: Absolutely.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR TEDISCO: Let me ask you a
25 question about a law I put in place, authored a
2455
1 while back -- I thought it was very important,
2 and to this day I realize how important it is.
3 It's called Buster's Law.
4 Are you familiar with it?
5 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
6 Mr. President, Senator Tedisco has a great heart
7 for animals, and I am aware of Buster's Law, yes.
8 SENATOR TEDISCO: Senator O'Mara
9 alluded to that. The story of Buster's Law is
10 this. We didn't have much respect for animals --
11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tedisco,
12 are you on the bill?
13 SENATOR TEDISCO: No.
14 THE PRESIDENT: You're asking a
15 question, okay.
16 Does the sponsor yield for another
17 question?
18 SENATOR BAILEY: Sure.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
20 SENATOR TEDISCO: Buster was a cat
21 that someone doused kerosene on, lit on fire.
22 And it was on TV for about three or four weeks.
23 They just kept showing the picture. Everybody
24 was rooting for the cat to live.
25 Eventually the cat passed away. I
2456
1 don't think I ever got more calls from
2 constituents -- not only across the state, but
3 the nation -- about this little cat that was on
4 TV for two or three weeks, had tubes all coming
5 out of him, everybody was rooting for him, and he
6 lost his life and died.
7 So I went to the chief of police and
8 I said, "Chief, can't you go out and find this
9 person, this perpetrator, and arrest him?"
10 He goes: "It's a violation."
11 "It's a violation?" I said, "Well,
12 what should it be?"
13 He said, "It should be a felony."
14 I said, "Not a misdemeanor?"
15 "No, it should be a felony."
16 "Why?"
17 "Because, Senator, you know what
18 people do who harm animals after they harm
19 animals?"
20 I'll answer it because she's talking
21 to you. They go on to hurt people.
22 Now, it's not me saying this. The
23 FBI puts animal abusers on A level for an
24 indicator that they're going to go on to hurt
25 human beings. Let me give you a list of them.
2457
1 Son of Sam, Ted Bundy, Daumer, the Columbine kids
2 all had a history of abusing animals before they
3 went on to become serial murderers. It's not me
4 saying that, it's the FBI.
5 The Animal Cruelty Felony Bill was
6 put in place under the name of Buster. We were
7 one of the first states in the nation on that
8 bill that I authored in the minority and worked
9 it through -- I don't know if Mr. Gianaris was
10 there or not there. Were you there then when we
11 did Buster's Law? Yeah. And -- yeah. We got it
12 done, though, and then a lot of other states
13 followed.
14 But you got a whole group of people
15 out there who love people and love animals. I
16 mean, when you think about animals -- our K-9
17 units, what they do for our veterans. I know a
18 woman that has a dog that could indicate if her
19 child is low or high on insulin and saves that
20 child's life several times during the course of a
21 night.
22 My question to you is -- and this is
23 what they're asking me. We used to have Animal
24 Advocacy Day. We can't do that now. We used to
25 have an Animal Advocacy Committee because we
2458
1 understood the nexus between harming animals and
2 harming people. We don't have that anymore here.
3 But I'll ask you. That felony of
4 harming -- in a serious, violent way -- animals,
5 is that bailable now?
6 SENATOR BAILEY: Through you,
7 Mr. President.
8 First, let me say thank you for your
9 work on Buster's Law. Thank you for your
10 advocacy for animals.
11 I am not certain, depending on the
12 nature of the offense -- if you could please give
13 me the specific nature of the offense and the
14 charge, I could tell you whether it is
15 bail-eligible or not.
16 But the point I'm making --
17 Senator Tedisco, if I may -- is again the law
18 before us, or the proposed law before us relates
19 to clarifying the intent of the Legislature as
20 related to gun offenses and repeat offenders.
21 I don't question how heinous a crime
22 against an animal is. That is not questioned by
23 me or -- I don't believe anybody in this house,
24 elected or not, would agree that a crime against
25 an animal is not a heinous offense.
2459
1 What I would say is that under what
2 we have contemplated on this specific piece of
3 legislation, it relates to, again, repeat
4 offenders -- because that's been a question --
5 and gun charges.
6 So -- but to answer your initial
7 question, if you would be able to provide the
8 specific nature of the offense.
9 SENATOR TEDISCO: The offense is
10 you got charged with Buster's Law, animal cruelty
11 felony. You're charged with animal cruelty
12 felony, charged with animal cruelty felony under
13 Buster's Law. That's not bailable if you're
14 brought before a judge.
15 SENATOR BAILEY: The offense of
16 animal cruelty, eligible -- the offense that
17 Senator Tedisco mentioned would not be eligible
18 for bail.
19 SENATOR TEDISCO: Thank you,
20 Senator. I appreciate you taking the time to
21 answer those questions.
22 On the bill.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Tedisco on
24 the bill.
25 SENATOR TEDISCO: Look, we had a
2460
1 Governor -- who is gone now, thankfully -- who
2 totally lacked transparency and was very
3 supportive of this, signed this bill. And then
4 we had another governor after he left, and both
5 of them really didn't want to do much about this
6 whole thing, until -- until a poll was taken and
7 all of a sudden an opponent of your governor
8 sitting on the second floor was a point behind or
9 a point ahead or maybe is tied right now, and all
10 of a sudden there was a 10-point plan, a 10-point
11 plan for the criminal justice system to address
12 it.
13 Now, you don't bring forth a
14 10-point plan unless the people of the State of
15 New York want to change a system which you put in
16 place, first of all said you were going to
17 adjust, secondly, and failed the people again
18 because -- and then didn't support your governor
19 at the beginning when she said, I want to reform
20 your plan. She had to bring you kicking and
21 screaming to do that.
22 Now, it's been mentioned but I'll
23 just repeat it as I close here. This does
24 nothing to change what's happening to our
25 constituents across the state. They're being
2461
1 victimized. This is a revolving door of danger
2 and disaster. It was done in secrecy.
3 If you want to correct this, repeal
4 it, bring back law enforcement, the judiciary,
5 our district attorneys, get in a room and do
6 something realistic that could really make it a
7 fair and just system.
8 This isn't smoke and mirrors, it's
9 just smoke. It's window dressing. It's to show
10 I've got a nice shiny object here, look how shiny
11 it is. But the object doesn't accomplish
12 anything. And it's -- certainly the shiny object
13 that you and the governor's holding, I don't
14 think it's going to close that poll. In fact, I
15 think there's going to be problems in November,
16 and I think the wave is a different color this
17 time.
18 Thank you, Mr. President.
19 SENATOR O'MARA: Senator Stec.
20 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
21 Mr. President. I have questions on Part L and
22 Part O. I'm not sure who to ask to --
23 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Krueger.
24 Does the sponsor yield?
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: Certainly.
2462
1 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR STEC: All right, thank
3 you, Senator Krueger. I promise this time I
4 don't have the answers to the questions I'm going
5 to ask you. I'm going to rely on you.
6 Part L -- through you,
7 Mr. President, if the sponsor would entertain the
8 first question regarding expanding income
9 eligibility for childcare subsidies.
10 Approximately how many additional
11 families would be eligible for childcare
12 subsidies with this expanded income eligibility?
13 How many new families?
14 SENATOR KRUEGER: We believe
15 396,000 children will be eligible.
16 SENATOR STEC: Three hundred
17 ninety-six additional children or --
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: An additional
19 396,000 children.
20 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
21 Mr. President, through you, if the
22 sponsor would yield.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
24 yield?
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
2463
1 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR STEC: Okay, great. While
3 this provision increases eligibility to serve an
4 additional 396 {sic} children, which is good
5 news, what plan is there to increase childcare
6 workers or centers to meet the increased need for
7 childcare? It's great that we're making more
8 children -- 396,000 more children eligible, but
9 being eligible doesn't get it done.
10 What is the State of New York's plan
11 for increasing childcare workers or centers to
12 meet the increased need?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: I apologize. I
14 thought I heard the question, so I started to
15 give an answer, but then your question went on.
16 So if you don't mind --
17 SENATOR STEC: I asked the question
18 twice, but I'll ask it a third time.
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
20 SENATOR STEC: While this provision
21 increases eligibility for childcare, what plan
22 does the State of New York have, either currently
23 or in the budget, to increase the number of
24 childcare workers or centers to meet the
25 increased need for childcare?
2464
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
2 Between last year's budget and this
3 year's budget, we're putting in a total of
4 150 million more dollars to expand capacity of
5 childcare centers in this state.
6 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
7 Mr. President, through you, if the
8 sponsor will yield again. Part O.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
10 yield?
11 SENATOR KRUEGER: I will.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR STEC: All right. Now,
14 going to Part O, juvenile justice -- or, I'm
15 sorry, the maximum state aid rates for voluntary
16 agencies.
17 How many counties currently do pay
18 the hundred percent of the applicable rates
19 published by OCFS for care provided to foster
20 children? How many counties are already at
21 100 percent?
22 SENATOR KRUEGER: Section O is on
23 foster care, not childcare. Just wanted to make
24 sure, double-checking.
25 So how many counties -- I'm afraid
2465
1 we don't know how many counties have 100 percent
2 coverage. If, through you -- is this another one
3 of those questions as a lawyer you know the
4 answer to?
5 SENATOR STEC: No. I told you I
6 didn't know.
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: Okay.
8 SENATOR STEC: I wasn't kidding.
9 SENATOR KRUEGER: We'll have to get
10 back to you on that one.
11 SENATOR STEC: All right.
12 Mr. President, through you, if the
13 sponsor could yield.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, of course.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR STEC: You'll see now where
19 I'm heading, though.
20 Has the state provided additional
21 funding for the implementation -- assuming, I'm
22 sure it's safe to assume that 100 percent of the
23 counties are not at 100 percent. So has the
24 state included additional funding for this
25 mandate?
2466
1 SENATOR KRUEGER: So no, the state
2 doesn't have any additional funds.
3 But it's not a mandate to get to a
4 hundred percent immediately. There's a phase-in
5 over a period of time. So hopefully between what
6 counties can do without additional help and the
7 expectation that the state will have to deliver
8 that extra help, we won't have a problem.
9 But it would be a good issue for us
10 to keep our eye on.
11 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
12 Mr. President. If the sponsor would yield for
13 one more question.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR STEC: Thanks,
19 Senator Krueger. And thank you for your time
20 today. It's been a long couple of days for all
21 of us, especially you, so I appreciate that.
22 Clearly the point of my -- where I'm
23 going is I'm concerned, as a former county
24 official myself -- and most of us have local
25 government roots -- very concerned about the
2467
1 state writing additional unfunded mandates on our
2 localities.
3 Do you know what the approximate
4 cost to counties might be to implement -- become
5 fully up to the 100 percent mandate that we're
6 putting in tonight? Understanding that we've got
7 a phase-in period and maybe a future budget might
8 address this. But do you have an idea what the
9 size of that mandate is?
10 SENATOR KRUEGER: The estimate is
11 that to hit 100 percent for the entire state
12 would be approximately $200 million, of which
13 110 million would be New York City-specific.
14 SENATOR STEC: Thank you.
15 Mr. President, on the bill briefly.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Stec on the
17 bill.
18 SENATOR STEC: Thank you,
19 Mr. President.
20 You know, clearly this is an
21 example -- an important issue we all want to
22 support. We all want to do right by our
23 children. But again, it's really easy for us to
24 sit here in Albany and issue mandates and tell
25 local government, This is what you're going to
2468
1 do, and then not provide the funding. That's
2 passing the buck. It's not leadership.
3 We do this a lot. We've done this
4 for decades. So the burden on this doesn't fall
5 certainly to any individual in this room. But
6 we're carrying the ball now, and we need to make
7 sure that going forward, we're mindful of these
8 mandates. It's not enough to just say something
9 ought to be so. We need to have a plan to
10 responsibly pay for it, whether it's this issue
11 or any other issue that we deal with in this
12 chamber.
13 And then pivoting back to the Part
14 L, you know, about the need for more -- it's
15 great to make more kids eligible, but whether the
16 kid is eligible or ineligible, the kid doesn't
17 know that he doesn't have access to it because
18 there's not enough workers. And there's a lot
19 that we can be doing to help our childcare
20 situation by facilitating entry into the business
21 of providing childcare.
22 An ombudsman program or a program
23 that the state could take on to facilitate the
24 process of the bureaucracy -- most people that
25 get into childcare do it because they're
2469
1 passionate about kids and they want to help kids
2 and they want to raise kids and they want to help
3 raise kids. But they're not bureaucrats, they're
4 not all accountants, they're not all safety
5 experts. And there are so many well-intended
6 barriers to entry into that line of work placed
7 on them through bureaucracies like those that we
8 oversee that are deterring people, good people,
9 from wanting to get into this line of work.
10 So perhaps a good investment in the
11 future would be to provide a way to streamline
12 it, because we still want them to all have a safe
13 environment, we don't want to just not regulate
14 it and then have a tragedy happen. That's the
15 furthest thing that we want.
16 But there should be a way for us to
17 streamline this so that we can pair up more kids
18 with willing childcare providers so that we're
19 doing right by our kids. It's not enough to just
20 throw money at a problem; sometimes we've got to
21 come up with innovative solutions.
22 So that's the purpose of my two
23 questions on these two areas today. It's an area
24 I think we generally agree on. But we need to
25 look one or two steps down the board and come up
2470
1 with some more detail behind that to make sure
2 that it works and we're not just throwing money
3 at a problem.
4 Thank you, Mr. President.
5 THE PRESIDENT: Okay. Debate is
6 now closed.
7 The Secretary will ring the bell.
8 Read the last section.
9 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
10 act shall take effect immediately.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
12 (The Secretary called the roll.)
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Brisport to
14 explain his vote.
15 SENATOR BRISPORT: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 You know, some will say that with
18 many pieces of my Universal Childcare Act
19 included in this budget, I should be presenting
20 it as a victory. And perhaps that would be the
21 politically advantageous thing to do.
22 Some will say that this is an
23 unprecedented win for us. And given the historic
24 underfunding that created the childcare crisis,
25 they are absolutely correct.
2471
1 The trouble is when the Universal
2 Childcare Act was never about scoring political
3 points, and when we said that this crisis cannot
4 be meaningfully addressed with less than the
5 Legislature's budget proposals, it wasn't a
6 tactic. We meant what we said. This is not a
7 game, it is an emergency.
8 Our entire economy is precariously
9 balanced on the backs of underpaid childcare
10 workers and overburdened families. One by one,
11 across the state, those backs are beginning to
12 break. This year's budget does not come remotely
13 close to addressing this crisis. That is why the
14 Governor is working so hard to mislead the public
15 with half-truths and empty platitudes after
16 actively negotiating against childcare funding.
17 As if this were not bad enough, she
18 has also chosen to explicitly exclude
19 undocumented children, and she has packaged this
20 shamefully inadequate childcare investment with a
21 disgusting rollback to civil rights at the
22 eleventh hour. This bill not only fails all of
23 New York's children and families, it actively
24 reinforces mass incarceration.
25 If the Governor thinks she can call
2472
1 it a day on childcare, she is deeply mistaken.
2 Throughout my 10-week childcare listening tour
3 across all of New York State, parents and
4 childcare workers were perfectly clear: Settling
5 is not an option. This fight is a matter of
6 survival -- for their families, for their
7 communities, and for the entire childcare sector.
8 I stand with them today as I vote
9 nay on this bill, and I will stand with them
10 tomorrow as we renew the fight for universal
11 childcare in New York.
12 Thank you.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Brisport to
14 be to be recorded in the negative.
15 Senator Jackson to explain his vote.
16 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 My colleagues, I rise after many
19 days of intense negotiations, and in good faith
20 we are called to vote today on a budget that
21 invests in the future of our state. However,
22 this isn't called the Big Ugly for nothing. It's
23 a cruel irony that this bill includes investments
24 in one of the things that I hold to be the most
25 fundamental in addressing public safety and
2473
1 inequities -- and that is education -- while also
2 making changes to criminal justice that slides us
3 back to a culture of discriminatory practices
4 that has caused long-term damages in our
5 community.
6 So here we are, Mr. President,
7 deciding on whether or not to vote on a bill that
8 acknowledges the importance of investing in
9 education, workforce and family while considering
10 last-minute proposals provided by the Executive
11 that are based on fear, not on the needs for
12 access for mental health support and
13 interventions, dignified and deeply affordable
14 housing, and healthcare. Not to mention an
15 irresponsible and terrible deal with a
16 billionaire who is more than capable of paying
17 for this stadium without state funds.
18 On behalf of the children of
19 New York State, I thank you for the continued
20 phase-in of Foundation Aid to support all schools
21 in providing students their constitutional right
22 to a sound, basic education.
23 I now look forward to another cause
24 to walk 150 miles. In providing the long overdue
25 funding, we have to go further by creating
2474
1 accountability to those dollars and accomplish
2 what the evidence says works, and that is
3 reducing class size.
4 I look forward to discussing with my
5 colleagues Senator John Liu and Senator Shelley
6 Mayer my bill on updating the language in the
7 Contract for Excellence, and I am happy to see
8 that for the first time in a very, very long
9 time, mayoral control is no longer a political
10 tool used in a budgetary process. We took it out
11 of the budget and can now have thoughtful
12 conversations with all stakeholders, many of whom
13 we heard from in a hearing held earlier this year
14 by my colleague John Liu.
15 I proudly sponsor Turn on the TAP,
16 S4464, to repeal the ban preventing people who
17 are incarcerated from receiving tuition
18 assistance. Providing college opportunities by
19 restoring TAP awards for incarcerated people is
20 critical for their future and the betterment of
21 our society. It helps reduce recidivism and
22 offers them dignity and opportunities to gain
23 employment and a productive life after
24 incarceration.
25 It is the kind of investment that
2475
1 makes sense. And I thank all the parties
2 involved, including the advocates, for making
3 this happen.
4 But today, Mr. President, we
5 continue to address New York's workforce
6 development and infrastructure needs by needs to
7 be more just and compassionate. And I'm very
8 pleased that the Senate negotiated --
9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jackson.
10 Senator Jackson --
11 SENATOR JACKSON: -- changes in
12 Tier 5 and Tier 6, making sure New Yorkers who
13 work mandatory hours are being afforded the
14 opportunity of not being penalized for their
15 dedication by a pension investment period that is
16 reduced from 10 years to five years. It is
17 something to rejoice --
18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jackson.
19 SENATOR JACKSON: -- but more needs
20 to be done, Mr. President. And I look forward to
21 working with labor and my colleagues to realize
22 the full menu of reforms so that the state can
23 attract and retain a talented and diverse --
24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jackson,
25 how do you vote?
2476
1 SENATOR JACKSON: Yes,
2 Mr. President?
3 THE PRESIDENT: Please. You have a
4 two-minute time limit.
5 SENATOR JACKSON: How do I vote?
6 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, sir.
7 SENATOR JACKSON: Can I finish this
8 so I can explain my vote?
9 THE PRESIDENT: So you can explain
10 your vote? You weren't explaining your --
11 Senator Jackson.
12 SENATOR JACKSON: Okay, let me just
13 put these two pages down and I'll come to the
14 last page, Mr. President.
15 (Extended laughter.)
16 SENATOR JACKSON: I just put it
17 down.
18 There's a great deal of good in this
19 bill, undermined by the bad process that forces
20 poor billionaires' deals and policy changes that
21 have nothing to do with making our lives safe.
22 And I thank the Majority Leader,
23 Andrea Stewart-Cousins, the Deputy Majority
24 Leader, Senator Gianaris, my colleagues, and all
25 of the staff for their hard work.
2477
1 I vote aye for the good --
2 THE PRESIDENT: Praise the Lord.
3 SENATOR JACKSON: -- with the hope
4 that we can come together as a state in unity to
5 raise up all New Yorkers.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jackson to
7 be recorded in the affirmative.
8 (Cheers, applause.)
9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Harckham to
10 explain his vote.
11 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Thank you,
12 Mr. President. I promise to be brief.
13 I just wanted to comment on three
14 things on the debate. I will be voting yes on
15 this bill.
16 First, I want to say that nobody in
17 this room has done more to help our seniors and
18 more to fight for home care and did more for
19 nursing homes than Senator May.
20 And I just want to comment that when
21 we hear remarks -- and we heard them earlier, it
22 had to do with the COLA -- that when folks who
23 are in the Minority who used to be in the
24 majority and presided with the former Governor
25 over 10 years of disinvestment in the human
2478
1 services sector, and then criticizes the folks
2 who are trying to reinvest, to me that's just
3 cynical politics. That's point one.
4 Point number two. On a happy note,
5 I want to thank Senator Mayer, I want to thank
6 Senator Liu, I want to thank Senator Stavisky, I
7 want to thank Senator Jackson and our leadership
8 with the Majority Leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins.
9 When we became the Majority, it was our joint
10 pledge to restore Foundation Aid, and education
11 was our number-one issue. And this budget
12 advances Foundation Aid, it advances pre-K, it
13 advances childcare, and we are continuing to make
14 those observations.
15 Finally, I want to thank Senator
16 Bailey for his courageous work in a very, very
17 complex field. I want to just put a couple of
18 facts on the record. I'm not here to debate
19 criminal justice reform.
20 We hear the NYPD cited quite
21 frequently as the bellwether of information. A
22 lot of NYPD members in my district. I have the
23 highest regard for them. However, their own
24 statistics show they solve less than 30 percent
25 of serious crime in New York City.
2479
1 So it doesn't matter whether we're
2 talking about bail or remand if we are not
3 catching the perpetrators of violent crime. If
4 they know they have a 70 percent chance of going
5 free, I think that's something that we should be
6 talking about.
7 Point number two, bail versus
8 remand. When the commissioner of DCJS testified
9 at the budget hearing, her figures were more
10 people out on bail reoffend than people out on
11 remand reoffend -- those are DCJS numbers --
12 30 percent to 20 percent.
13 So let's look in the case of
14 New York recently where a woman pushed an old
15 vocal teacher to the sidewalk to her death. She
16 was freed on $500,000 bail because her mother put
17 up the bond. Are we safer because she is out on
18 bail and someone who might have done something
19 similar is not?
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Harckham.
21 SENATOR HARCKHAM: I will finish in
22 one moment.
23 (Laughter.)
24 SENATOR HARCKHAM: Last point,
25 Mr. President. I want to talk about what makes
2480
1 neighborhoods safe. I have, if you look at the
2 FBI statistics, some of the safest communities in
3 the nation in my district. And it's not because
4 they over-police Black and brown communities,
5 it's they have good institutions, great schools
6 with robust after-school programs, access to
7 great healthcare, to jobs, to transportation.
8 And those are the things that we
9 should be focusing on in every community so we
10 have the holistic foundations for success and
11 safe communities.
12 I vote aye. Thank you.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Harckham to
14 be recorded in the affirmative.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Yes, sir.
17 SENATOR GIANARIS: I implore my
18 colleagues, please, it's 10:30 p.m. We have
19 three more bills to go. We have a two-minute
20 limit on vote explanations. Let's stick to it.
21 And, Mr. President, please enforce
22 the rule.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Will do.
24 Senator May to explain her vote.
25 SENATOR MAY: Thank you,
2481
1 Mr. President. Short (waving paper).
2 Over the last year I have had the
3 privilege of working hand in hand with the Caring
4 Majority, a diverse, beautiful coalition of
5 people who dedicated months of their lives to the
6 struggle for Fair Pay for Home Care -- coming to
7 Albany, visiting their legislators, attending
8 rallies, telling their stories.
9 Skilled home care workers explaining
10 how they love their jobs but can't afford to feed
11 their own kids or buy health insurance on minimum
12 wage. People who depend on care who literally
13 live with the fear that they won't be able to get
14 out of bed in the morning because they can't find
15 caregivers. Family members whose love has lit up
16 the Capitol as they advocated for spouses,
17 parents or children who just want to live
18 independent, dignified lives.
19 To these champions: You have not
20 gotten what you asked for in this budget. But
21 everyone across the state has heard you and seen
22 you. I would not do this work -- I couldn't do
23 it if I didn't have the heart of an optimist.
24 And I say to you, this budget is not the end.
25 This is a start.
2482
1 Between the $3 raise and indexing to
2 the minimum wage, upstate home care workers could
3 see a rise of almost $5 an hour in coming years.
4 Thanks to your advocacy and the
5 tenacity of our Senate Majority Leader, our state
6 is committing in this bill to the biggest
7 investment in home care wages any state has ever
8 made. Please know your stories are seared into
9 our hearts. We will not forget them. You have
10 taught us to move forward with love, no matter
11 the barriers.
12 Mr. President, I vote aye. But
13 please tell the Governor: We will keep fighting
14 until we achieve true fair pay for home care.
15 Thank you.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator May to be
17 recorded in the affirmative.
18 Senator Biaggi to explain her vote.
19 SENATOR BIAGGI: Thank you,
20 Mr. President.
21 In the wake of our former
22 executive's unethical behavior and a much-needed
23 change in executive leadership, today's
24 opportunity to establish a new ethics body that
25 can finally turn the page on the endemic
2483
1 corruption in New York State government
2 unfortunately misses the mark.
3 I want to be very clear that I have
4 long advocated for repealing JCOPE, New York
5 State's ethics body, and building an entirely new
6 and independent ethics entity from the ground up.
7 I was proud to chair two hearings last year to
8 further that goal. But I cannot in good
9 conscience support the proposal that we are
10 advancing today.
11 While this bill does make
12 improvements that are good, it still fails to
13 correct the structural shortcomings of JCOPE, and
14 unfortunately all that it feels like we are doing
15 is painting over mold without removing the rot.
16 This proposal allows political
17 appointees. And furthermore, the only safeguard
18 here is law school deans who essentially are
19 laundering the names of the political
20 appointments without any kind of clear direction.
21 I also want to address the rollbacks
22 to bail reform in this bill. We cannot forget
23 that making a crime bail-eligible does not mean
24 keeping someone in jail. It means keeping
25 someone in jail only if they are poor. I'll
2484
1 repeat that. Bail only serves to keep someone in
2 jail if they are poor.
3 Cash bail is an inherently unfair
4 system, and it does not advance safety in our
5 communities. It was simply not set up to do so.
6 I also want to say that criminal
7 justice reform and victims' rights are not in
8 contrast to each other. As a survivor of sexual
9 assault, I am incredibly committed to victims'
10 rights, but I'm also committed to criminal
11 justice reform.
12 And let me also be clear.
13 Communities are safe when people are housed.
14 Communities are safe when schools are fully
15 funded so that every child in every zip code has
16 access to high-quality education. Communities
17 are safe when people have access to affordable
18 healthcare, when a person has the opportunity for
19 a well-paying job so that they can make a living
20 wage.
21 So much of our conversation around
22 criminal justice reform is focused on what
23 happens after the gun goes off. Let's be real
24 and focus on what happens before the gun goes
25 off. Because the reality is that the only way
2485
1 that our communities will truly be safe is by
2 investing in them to make sure that every human
3 being, not just in New York but in this entire
4 country, is actually able to have a life that is
5 one with dignity.
6 Yes, I vote in the negative. And I
7 will just finally say that instead of investing
8 in our communities, our Governor also insisted on
9 handing out corporate welfare to the
10 fifth-highest-paid owner in the NFL, and I firmly
11 oppose that.
12 Thank you very much.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
14 Senator Biaggi to be recorded in the
15 negative.
16 Senator Salazar to explain her vote.
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Thank you,
18 Mr. President.
19 There is a great deal of policy in
20 this budget that I fully support, and in this
21 bill as well. And I thank the staff and the
22 leader of our conference for their unrelenting
23 work to secure investments in public education,
24 in workforce development, in childcare, and much
25 more.
2486
1 But I cannot vote for this bill,
2 primarily because I cannot accept an expansion of
3 the criminalization of poverty.
4 In 2019 we passed changes to the law
5 that have had a profound positive impact in the
6 lives of countless New Yorkers, particularly in
7 my district -- and eliminated some of the
8 racially discriminatory practices in our legal
9 system.
10 There is no evidence or data that
11 supports any claim that bail reform has led in
12 any way to or been connected to a rise in crime.
13 And yet the changes in this bill will result in
14 even more individuals being held in pretrial
15 detention, more people being held in jail without
16 having been convicted of a crime, many more
17 people torn from their families, from their
18 homes, their jobs, their education, due to being
19 accused of a crime and unable to pay the ransom
20 for their freedom.
21 We cannot legislate based on
22 reactionary scare tactics, and for that reason I
23 vote in the negative.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Salazar to
25 be recorded in the negative.
2487
1 Senator Bailey to explain his vote.
2 SENATOR BAILEY: Thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 I'd like to thank my colleagues on
5 the other side of the aisle for a spirited
6 debate.
7 The reason I want to thank them is
8 because of a word called credibility. You are
9 all credible in your districts; otherwise, you
10 wouldn't be here.
11 It is incumbent upon credible people
12 to notify those who trust them to tell them the
13 truth. We've spoken about a number of offenses
14 about being bail-eligible, as if that means that
15 someone is guilty. Has anyone in this room been
16 accused of something that they didn't do? I dare
17 to venture yes. Should we say that you are that
18 thing that you were accused of without fair due
19 process? I dare to say no.
20 Bail was defined, according to
21 New York courts -- I just want to make sure --
22 the security given or posted to ensure the future
23 appearance of a defendant. Our very own court
24 system. It doesn't say anything about punitive.
25 It doesn't say anything about incarcerate because
2488
1 of dangerousness. It says nothing of the sort.
2 Credibility. It is incumbent upon
3 those who are credible, those of you -- those of
4 us who are attorneys, if we needed a witness we
5 require, we call on an expert witness. You are
6 the expert witnesses in your communities. It is
7 incumbent upon you to tell them the truth about
8 what bail is and what bail is not. To guarantee
9 a return to court -- nothing more, nothing less.
10 As far as discovery goes, this was a
11 conversation that was had between many parties --
12 district attorneys and defenders -- and it was to
13 clarify language that we had in good faith, to
14 make sure that the wheels of justice continue to
15 work well.
16 I'm grateful to our leader, Andrea
17 Stewart-Cousins, for allowing me to be the chair
18 of the Codes Committee and allowing me to be able
19 to have these conversations.
20 To all my colleagues, regardless of
21 your political affiliation, I thank you for your
22 work here in this chamber. I thank you for your
23 work on this budget.
24 My vote on this budget is related to
25 the African principle of ubuntu: I am because
2489
1 you are. And with that being said,
2 Mr. President, I vote in the affirmative.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Bailey to
4 be recorded in the affirmative.
5 Senator Rivera to explain his vote.
6 SENATOR RIVERA: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 I'm the chair of the Health
9 Committee in the Senate. And at the beginning of
10 the process, ironically enough, I would have told
11 you that this was the best budget that I've seen
12 in the time that I've been here. And it is true.
13 As a matter of fact, much of what was in that
14 original budget is still in this budget.
15 And I would say three weeks ago, if
16 you would have asked me if we'd have passed it on
17 time, it would have been an early budget, it
18 would have been a great budget, I would have
19 voted for it proudly.
20 However, I'm very sad to say our
21 staff has not failed, our leader has not failed,
22 Governor Hochul has failed. Governor Hochul has
23 failed because three weeks before we were done
24 with this budget, all of a sudden injected into
25 the conversation were budget issues that had
2490
1 nothing to do with the budget, Mr. President.
2 And you know very well because,
3 sadly, you were going around defending these
4 actions which the Governor took, which ultimately
5 meant that here we are, eight days after
6 April 1st -- or seven days after April 1st, and
7 we still do not have a budget. But we will have
8 one today.
9 I know that every budget is never
10 perfect -- no budget is ever perfect. And I know
11 that this bill has things in it that I've paid --
12 that I fought for. We have versions of fair pay
13 in here that I can live with. We have versions
14 of the worker bonus that I can live. We have
15 Medicaid expansion or Essential Plan expansion
16 versions that I can vote for.
17 But I cannot and will not vote in
18 the positive on this particular bill because of
19 the process and because of what is ultimately in
20 this bill. Every Big Ugly is ugly. This one I'm
21 sad to say is uglier. I've said it many times
22 that the Governor that we have today is not the
23 sociopath that we had before, and I repeat it
24 today. She is a good person. I believe that.
25 But she failed us, Mr. President.
2491
1 She failed us because ultimately she put a bill
2 in front of us which has all sorts of things that
3 have nothing to do with the budget, she held
4 everything back for the sake of what seems to be
5 political trickery. And I am very sad to say
6 that. She is a good person, but this is not a
7 good budget bill. I cannot and will not vote for
8 it.
9 I vote in the negative. Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Rivera to
12 be recorded in the negative.
13 Senator Oberacker to explain his
14 vote.
15 SENATOR OBERACKER: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 As a freshman legislator and as a
18 businessman, I cannot support this measure, and
19 vote in the negative.
20 Thank you.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mattera to
22 explain his vote.
23 SENATOR MATTERA: Thank you,
24 Mr. President.
25 On this bill, this is interesting, I
2492
1 was looking forward to seeing some kind of a bill
2 that was going to be productive. You know, and I
3 was listening to Senator Bailey, and I was
4 watching him, I watched his facial expressions,
5 you know, about the questions, especially with
6 Senator O'Mara going down a list of 261 offenses.
7 We would have been here all night to go through
8 all these lists of crimes that are not
9 bail-eligible. And then finally Senator Bailey
10 went and just said, Please, you know, let's stop.
11 You know, this bail reform does not
12 work. It didn't work the first time. It did not
13 work the second time. And the third time it was
14 not the third time a charm. This is a failure.
15 It is a failure for the process, it's a failure
16 for this budget. This bail reform needs to be
17 repealed totally, and get the professionals at
18 the table. Get our district attorneys, get our
19 PBAs, and get our judges to the table and let's
20 fix this right the first time.
21 This should not be in with the Bills
22 stadium. This is -- this is something so
23 important, the most important part of the budget.
24 Everybody knows in this room and everybody in
25 New York State knows that bail reform was the
2493
1 most important thing for this legislative body to
2 make sure we were going to fix it right this
3 time. And you know what? This has failed.
4 Law and order is so important for
5 our families, our friends and our neighbors. And
6 you know what? Our law enforcement lost their
7 tools because of bail reform. I'm in the
8 plumbing industry. I go to someone's house, I
9 don't have tools to fix your plumbing. That's
10 what we did to our law enforcement. We took the
11 tools away from them to do their job.
12 You know, I can sit there and say
13 all day long about what happened here today. But
14 I'm going to say it again: The reason why I'm
15 voting no, Mr. President, for this bill is
16 because it needs to be repealed. And guess what,
17 the third time it did not work.
18 Thank you.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mattera to
20 be recorded in the negative.
21 Senator Hinchey to explain her vote.
22 SENATOR HINCHEY: Thank you,
23 Mr. President.
24 I will be voting aye on this bill,
25 but not because I think it is perfect. There are
2494
1 things that I wish were in this bill, like
2 coverage for all. I wish that we could have
3 delivered for the Caring Majority, the group that
4 fought so hard and so valiantly to raise the
5 wages of home care workers so that everyone
6 across our state can live with dignity and
7 respect, and those workers can live with dignity
8 and respect.
9 I wish we were able to do everything
10 that they wanted, but we did get a start. And I
11 rise today to pledge to them that this is just
12 the beginning of our fight. This is just the
13 beginning of our work to make sure that everyone
14 is paid fairly and that everyone can receive the
15 home care that they need.
16 There are things in this budget that
17 are incredibly exciting. We still have record
18 education funding, expanded UPK slots, pre-K
19 slots for people across our district. We have
20 expanded the Farm to School program to finally
21 include breakfast, making sure that students
22 across our state will eat good, healthy, locally
23 sourced farm-fresh food, making our students
24 healthier.
25 We've elevated the Division of
2495
1 Veterans' Affairs to the New York State
2 Department of Veterans' Services, which is
3 critical to get our veterans the support that
4 they need and something that I know
5 Senator Brooks and so many others have been
6 fighting to do for years.
7 We are doing Tier 6 reform, helping
8 our public employees.
9 And while it is not enough, we have
10 started our universal childcare expansion and
11 something that many families in my district will
12 be able to take advantage of.
13 There is a lot more that we should
14 be doing, but that's because we have decades of
15 disinvestment and underinvestment that we are
16 working as a body to undo. That is going to take
17 billions and billions of dollars to undo the work
18 that we are now saddled with.
19 And so while I wish that we could do
20 it all at once, I wish that we could be standing
21 here celebrating all the wins that we set out to
22 achieve just a few weeks ago, I'm proud of the
23 steps that we've been able to take in the right
24 direction, and for that I vote aye.
25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Hinchey to
2496
1 be recorded in the affirmative.
2 Senator Ramos to explain her vote.
3 SENATOR RAMOS: Mr. President, this
4 budget bill is ug-ly. How ugly is it? It's so
5 ugly that it really does put a lot of the burden
6 on women of color, women who look like me.
7 If we're not the ones being
8 incarcerated for crimes of poverty, then we're
9 left as single moms. And if we happen to work in
10 the care economy -- in home care, in childcare --
11 this budget does nothing for us there either.
12 And if you happen to be an undocumented mom, like
13 my mom once was, well, this budget doesn't help
14 you with healthcare or with the childcare
15 services or perhaps your home care wages either.
16 And so I can't help but feel
17 tremendously disappointed to see that we haven't
18 done anything to truly address what this budget
19 should do, which is the recovery after the
20 pandemic.
21 And look, I had the honor of passing
22 excluded workers in the budget last year. I did
23 expect to do more. There's 75,000 eligible
24 excluded workers who applied and have been
25 ignored. There's 100,000 additional estimated
2497
1 excluded workers who are going to go on without a
2 cent of economic recovery following this
3 pandemic. And these are essential workers. We
4 all clapped for them at 7 o'clock. We trust them
5 to clean our homes, we trust them to help us
6 raise our children, to care for our aging
7 parents. And yet we have nothing to show for
8 them but a damn stadium.
9 And to me, that's just completely
10 outrageous, that this is our response to the
11 people of New York having faced one of the most
12 difficult times of our lives.
13 Just to briefly address the budget
14 reform stuff. You know, I don't really believe
15 that it's our job as a society to become
16 harm-doers too. It's about honoring victims by
17 ensuring that the wrongdoing doesn't happen
18 again. And that's not throwing people away in a
19 dungeon.
20 To me, this debate is much more
21 about where people go. Harmdoers should be
22 identified at arraignment, should be evaluated at
23 arraignment, should be treated, Medicaided by a
24 clinician. Not a judge, not a prosecutor, not
25 any expert in the law.
2498
1 And so to me, it's much more about
2 honoring the presumption of innocence. And I
3 just feel very disappointed about how the process
4 for this in bill transpired, and I will be voting
5 nay.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Ramos to be
7 recorded in the negative.
8 Senator Mayer to explain her vote.
9 SENATOR MAYER: Thank you,
10 Mr. President. And I rise to proudly vote aye on
11 this bill.
12 From the perspective of someone who
13 has been around this place and this institution
14 for many years, when you think back on how many
15 years it took Senator Jackson and others in this
16 chamber to get to full funding of Foundation
17 Aid -- something that, notably, no one wanted to
18 debate here. Everyone is taking it as a given.
19 It is not a given. This was a war to get this
20 full funding of Foundation Aid. We got it last
21 year because of the persistence of our Majority
22 Leader and the Speaker of the Assembly and our
23 colleagues on this side of the aisle and the
24 other side of the aisle. And this year we have
25 the second tranche of that money, getting to
2499
1 80 percent of what every district is owed. An
2 enormous investment in every child in this state,
3 in expanded full-day pre-K for 4-year-olds
4 outside the City of New York. Never on -- never
5 ever on the table before. Now it's on the table.
6 When you talk about Fair Pay for
7 Home Care, I share the disappointment of my
8 colleague Senator May who did such a valiant job.
9 But we got our foot in the door. We got our foot
10 in the door to begin a conversation that had been
11 ignored for years.
12 And lastly, on criminal justice
13 reform. I was proud to support the reforms that
14 this Majority Conference brought to the table.
15 But I also have called for change. And credit to
16 our Majority Leader, and credit to Senator
17 Bailey, for finding a way forward to address
18 legitimate concerns of our constituents and
19 finding a path forward.
20 That is the challenge of us as
21 legislators, to have respected that what we can
22 do to make meaningful change. And we have done
23 that in this budget. Is it perfect? Absolutely
24 not. Is any budget here perfect? Absolutely
25 not.
2500
1 This is a substantial step forward
2 on issues that have been around a long time, were
3 ignored by so many people up here, and now are
4 finally getting addressed in the right direction.
5 I proudly vote aye.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Mayer to be
7 recorded in the affirmative.
8 Senator Liu to explain his vote.
9 SENATOR LIU: Thank you,
10 Mr. President.
11 It's been a -- you know, a very
12 eventful last few weeks. Lots of emotions, lots
13 of passion. As it should, because we're all
14 elected to represent our constituencies, our
15 communities in the best way possible.
16 This budget has a lot of things that
17 you've got to hold your nose about. At the same
18 time, it is a budget that we must proceed with.
19 And as Senator Mayer and others have
20 mentioned, we continue our commitment to public
21 education all across the State of New York. For
22 the first time in decades, we're reversing the
23 disinvestment in our public universities, CUNY
24 and SUNY. For the first time in decades, we're
25 reversing the disinvestment in our home care
2501
1 workers by advancing fair pay. Not to the amount
2 that we'd like, but it is still a significant
3 advancement. And for the first time we're also
4 starting to invest in infrastructure and
5 childcare.
6 Not a perfect budget, as pretty much
7 everybody has said. But we need to move forward,
8 do the job that we were elected to do.
9 Mr. President, I vote yes. And
10 since I have time remaining, I yield my time to
11 Senator Kennedy.
12 (Laughter.)
13 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Liu to be
14 recorded in the affirmative.
15 Senator Cooney to explain his vote.
16 SENATOR COONEY: Thank you,
17 Mr. President.
18 Now, I wasn't in office when we
19 first had the conversations in these chambers
20 about bail reform, but I'm here now. And I'm so
21 proud to represent my hometown of Rochester.
22 But let's be clear. It is still an
23 injustice that the size of one's wallet would
24 determine whether or not someone sits in jail.
25 And it's important to me and the constituents
2502
1 that I represent that we do not continue to
2 criminalize poverty.
3 However, it is also important to my
4 district that we increase public safety, we
5 prioritize getting illegal guns off of our
6 streets, and we hold those charged with repeat
7 offenses accountable. That's what we're doing in
8 this bill right here tonight.
9 Like many cities in the wake of this
10 pandemic, we continue to be plagued by increased
11 rates of gun violence. This past year in
12 Rochester we had 81 homicides -- 81 homicides.
13 This is a top concern for our community
14 leadership, our new mayor, Malik Evans, our
15 sheriff, Todd Baxter.
16 But it's also for our neighborhood
17 leaders, our local law enforcement and the
18 families and the victims of these crimes,
19 including Julius Greer, whose 14-year-old son was
20 shot dead just at the beginning of this year.
21 These are commonsense revisions to
22 public safety in this budget that will save lives
23 and also increase that feeling of safety that so
24 many New Yorkers seem to have lost.
25 I am so proud to be part of a
2503
1 Majority under the leadership of our
2 Majority Leader, Andrea Stewart-Cousins, who
3 leads, who looks and listens to what the
4 community needs.
5 I will be voting aye.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Cooney to
7 be recorded in the affirmative.
8 Senator Borrello to explain his
9 vote.
10 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
11 Mr. President.
12 Senator Bailey pointed out that the
13 purpose of bail is to ensure that someone returns
14 to face their trial. Well, I can tell you that
15 this is not just an issue of credibility, it's
16 also an issue of the urgency that we need to make
17 real changes, not clarifications.
18 Because in the little town of
19 Ischua, in my district, last month there were
20 15 people that were given appearance tickets to
21 appear before the judge for criminal charges.
22 Zero of those 15 people showed up. So how are we
23 guaranteeing that people are going to show up for
24 their trial when we don't apply bail?
25 Now, the interesting part of that is
2504
1 10 of those 15 were from the previous month, so
2 this was their second strike.
3 We have people there at the courts
4 that are there to obviously handle those cases.
5 That's a tremendous amount of resources for a
6 little community like that. And we failed them.
7 And tonight what we have said is
8 we're doing some clarifications to bail. I've
9 heard a lot of consternation, a lot of
10 handwringing about changes. But I asked the
11 question, and the answer was very clear: They're
12 clarifications.
13 We need to repeal this disastrous
14 law. And by the way, speaking of credibility,
15 I'm not sure why bail changes are in a bill about
16 education and labor. I don't see how that's
17 credible.
18 So as a result, I'm voting no.
19 Thank you, Mr. President.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Borrello to
21 be recorded in the affirmative {sic}.
22 Senator Reichlin-Melnick to explain
23 his vote.
24 Oh, I'm sorry, I apologize. I did
25 not mean to offend you.
2505
1 (Laughter.)
2 THE PRESIDENT: I'm sorry. Senator
3 Borrello to be recorded in the negative.
4 Senator Reichlin-Melnick to explain
5 his vote.
6 SENATOR REICHLIN-MELNICK: Thank
7 you very much, Mr. President.
8 And it's late, so I'll be brief.
9 I think there are some great things
10 in this bill, some things less great, a lot of
11 half-loaves, but one very full loaf that I'm
12 happy to celebrate, and that's the continued
13 funding of Foundation Aid for our school
14 districts.
15 I'm new here, this is my second year
16 in office. But for so many years leading up to
17 last year, school districts all over New York
18 never got the money they deserved from New York
19 State.
20 My colleagues in the Senate Majority
21 fought for that, none harder than Senator Mayer,
22 the Education Committee chair, and finally last
23 year we were able to get the first of a
24 three-year phase-in of Foundation Aid, bringing
25 billions of dollars -- 1.4 billion last year, 1.5
2506
1 this year -- back to our schools. We'll do it
2 again next year. That's money that makes a huge
3 difference for kids, for teachers, for families,
4 for our property taxpayers who are going to see
5 their taxes hopefully held flat.
6 In my district last year when we
7 phased Foundation Aid just partway in, more than
8 half the districts I represent, the school
9 districts, held property taxes flat. That's what
10 people elected to come here and do, to look out
11 for kids, look out for our taxpayers. I'm
12 delighted by that.
13 And I'm glad to see that this bill
14 starts making the investment we need in
15 childcare. I agree with my colleague Senator
16 Brisport, who fought for this; it does not go far
17 enough. We can and we should do more. And I
18 hope that we will, in future years. But I'm glad
19 to see a renewed push for childcare, that we're
20 going to get more into it.
21 I also understand where my colleague
22 Senator May is coming from. She's been fighting
23 for the fair pay for home care for so long. This
24 bill starts us down that path, and it raises
25 wages. Again, it does not go as far as I think
2507
1 almost everybody in this chamber would like to
2 see, but it gets us further than we've gotten in
3 a very long time.
4 And I always believe that getting a
5 half a loaf or three-quarters of a loaf or
6 however much of a loaf you want is better than
7 taking nothing.
8 And I am very happy that we are
9 moving things in the right direction, and so I
10 proudly vote in the affirmative for this bill.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Senator
12 Reichlin-Melnick to be recorded in the
13 affirmative.
14 Senator Savino to explain her vote.
15 SENATOR SAVINO: Thank you,
16 Mr. President.
17 I think I'm going to take part of
18 Senator Kennedy's time -- just kidding. Just
19 kidding.
20 So change comes sometimes
21 incrementally, sometimes slowly, and sometimes
22 painfully slowly. So just to keep things in
23 perspective, this is my 18th budget. In 2005 we
24 passed the budget on time that year, March 31st.
25 We actually stopped the clock, and we passed the
2508
1 budget. And the budget in 2005 was $112 billion.
2 Eighteen years later, it's
3 $220 billion. So that means in that time we have
4 doubled the investment in the State of New York.
5 And what have we spent that money on? We spent
6 it on things like fully phasing in Foundation
7 Aid, which started under Governor Eliot Spitzer.
8 It took that long to finally get there. We've
9 invested in expanding access to education, to
10 healthcare, to Child Health Plus. Change comes
11 incrementally and slowly.
12 Now, is there a lot of good in this
13 budget? Yes. You've heard from my colleagues;
14 I'm not going to reiterate all of them. Some of
15 them, though, I think are definitely worth
16 mentioning. Closing the -- fully funding the TAP
17 gap, extending it to part-timers and non-degree
18 students, that's a real game-changer for people.
19 I believe it's right that we extend it to inmates
20 because the best thing we can do is educate
21 people so they don't go back to prison. We want
22 them to become fully functioning members of our
23 society.
24 The investment in childcare is not
25 enough, but it's a start, Senator Brisport. It's
2509
1 a start. Change comes incrementally, and we
2 continue working on that. Tier 5 and 6 fixers,
3 we absolutely have to do that.
4 Here's where we need to continue to
5 make good change, though. I am profoundly upset
6 about the fact that we are continuing this child
7 welfare financing model, we're just saddling the
8 localities with more of the responsibility. We
9 need to fix that. Next year, you all need to fix
10 that.
11 We need to fix the unfair funding
12 formula for Raise the Age. Saddling localities
13 with it, they're not getting anything for it.
14 I support the efforts of everyone on
15 trying to make the necessary changes to our bail
16 reform law. And I really appreciate how hard and
17 difficult this was for so many people,
18 particularly for Senator Bailey, who worked so --
19 so hard on this. This was personal for him, and
20 I think we should be recognizing how hard this
21 was -- and particularly for Dorothy Powell, who
22 put her heart and soul into trying to make sense
23 out of a law that most people in the general
24 public do not even understand.
25 But again, change comes slowly and
2510
1 incrementally. Who knows where we'll be in
2 18 years from now, what size the budget will be.
3 But with the right people here and their hearts
4 in the right place, the investments can only get
5 better.
6 I vote in the affirmative,
7 Mr. President.
8 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Savino to
9 be recorded in the affirmative.
10 Announce the results.
11 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
12 Calendar 752, those Senators voting in the
13 negative are Senators Akshar, Biaggi, Borrello,
14 Boyle, Brisport, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
15 Jordan, Lanza, Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker,
16 O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Ramos, Rath, Ritchie,
17 Rivera, Salazar, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and Weik.
18 Ayes, 37. Nays, 25.
19 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is passed.
20 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
21 reading of the controversial calendar.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
23 Mr. President.
24 The members should know it's our
25 intention to push through to conclusion on the
2511
1 budget tonight. And now we, I think, are in a
2 position to break for party conferences.
3 Please recognize Senator Palumbo.
4 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Palumbo.
5 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 There will be an immediate
8 Republican conference in Room 315 of the Capitol.
9 Thank you.
10 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
11 immediate Republican conference in Room 315 of
12 the Capitol.
13 Senator Gianaris.
14 SENATOR GIANARIS: And there will
15 be an immediate Democratic conference virtually,
16 so check your emails for the link.
17 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
18 immediate Democratic conference virtually.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: The Senate will
20 stand at ease.
21 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate stands
22 at ease.
23 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
24 at 11:05 p.m.)
25 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
2512
1 3:00 a.m.)
2 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
3 come to order.
4 Senator Gianaris.
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: Thank you,
6 Mr. President.
7 First of all, let's take care of
8 some administrative business.
9 Pursuant to Rule 5, I move that we
10 stay in session past the hour of midnight.
11 THE PRESIDENT: So ordered.
12 SENATOR GIANARIS: And now there
13 will be an immediate meeting of the
14 Finance Committee in Room 332.
15 THE PRESIDENT: There will be an
16 immediate meeting of the Finance Committee in
17 Room 332.
18 The Senate will stand at ease.
19 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
20 at 3:00 a.m.)
21 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
22 3:19 a.m.)
23 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
24 return to order.
25 Senator Gianaris.
2513
1 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
2 there's a report of the Finance Committee at the
3 desk.
4 Let's take that up.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
6 read.
7 THE SECRETARY: Senator Krueger,
8 from the Committee on Finance, reports the
9 following bills:
10 Senate Print 8000E, Senate Budget
11 Bill, an act making appropriations for the
12 support of government;
13 Senate Print 8003D, Senate Budget
14 Bill, an act making appropriations for the
15 support of government;
16 Senate Print 8004E, Senate Budget
17 Bill, an act making appropriations for the
18 support of government.
19 All bills reported direct to third
20 reading.
21 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
22 the report of the Finance Committee.
23 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
24 of accepting the report of the Finance Committee
25 signify by saying aye.
2514
1 (Response of "Aye.")
2 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
3 (No response.)
4 THE PRESIDENT: The report is
5 accepted.
6 Senator Gianaris.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Let's take up
8 the supplemental calendar, please.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
10 read.
11 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
12 753, Senate Print 8000E, Senate Budget Bill, an
13 act making appropriations for the support of
14 government.
15 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
16 message of necessity at the desk?
17 THE PRESIDENT: There is a message
18 of necessity at the desk.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
20 the message of necessity.
21 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
22 of accepting the message please signify by saying
23 aye.
24 (Response of "Aye.")
25 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
2515
1 (Response of "Nay.")
2 THE PRESIDENT: The message is
3 accepted, and the bill is before the house.
4 The Secretary will read.
5 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
6 Calendar Number 753, Senate Print 8000E, Senate
7 Budget Bill, an act making appropriations for the
8 support of government.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Read the last
10 section.
11 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
12 act shall take effect immediately.
13 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
14 (The Secretary called the roll.)
15 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jackson to
16 explain his vote.
17 SENATOR JACKSON: Thank you,
18 Mr. President. I rise in order to vote in favor
19 of this legislation.
20 Let me just find the piece here.
21 As a proud SUNY New Paltz alum, I
22 recognize that funding public higher education
23 shapes the future of our state for the better.
24 And because CUNY is among the most vital
25 resources Black and brown communities have, as a
2516
1 vehicle that develops future leaders, we know how
2 crucial adequate funding for SUNY and CUNY is for
3 students, like many in my district who face
4 significant academic and economic challenges.
5 At this moment we are approaching
6 these challenges with bold ideas and a vision
7 that allows us to meet the benchmarks of a
8 progressive education representing our diverse
9 state. Our state and city public university
10 systems are the pride and joy of New York. Let's
11 keep them in this standing by providing
12 operational and structural funds and make CUNY
13 free again. There is no greater vision than to
14 invest in New York by committing to a New Deal
15 for CUNY and SUNY that will support educators and
16 students, providing a better future for all
17 New Yorkers.
18 Mr. President, I proudly say aye.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Jackson to
20 be recorded in the affirmative.
21 Announce the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar 753, those Senators voting in the
24 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle,
25 Brisport, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan,
2517
1 Lanza, Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara,
2 Ortt, Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Salazar, Serino,
3 Stec, Tedisco and Weik.
4 Ayes, 40. Nays, 22.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is passed.
6 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
7 754, Senate Print 8003D, Senate Budget Bill, an
8 act making appropriations for the support of
9 government.
10 SENATOR PALUMBO: Lay it aside.
11 SENATOR GIANARIS: Before we do
12 that, Mr. President, is there a message of
13 necessity at the desk?
14 THE PRESIDENT: There is a message
15 of necessity at the desk.
16 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
17 the message of necessity.
18 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
19 of accepting the message please signify by saying
20 aye.
21 (Response of "Aye.")
22 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
23 (Response of "Nay.")
24 THE PRESIDENT: The message is
25 accepted, and the bill is before the house.
2518
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: Lay it aside,
2 please.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside.
4 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
5 we're going to take a pause in going through the
6 calendar now.
7 Let's move to the controversial
8 calendar.
9 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
10 ring the bell.
11 The Secretary will read.
12 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
13 754, Senate Print 8003D, Senate Budget Bill, an
14 act making appropriations for the support of
15 government.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Martucci.
17 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Good morning,
18 Mr. President.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Good morning.
20 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Will the sponsor
21 yield for a question.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
23 yield?
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Good morning.
25 Certainly.
2519
1 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Good morning,
3 Senator Krueger.
4 Through you, Mr. President. My
5 question is with respect to the OTDA section,
6 specifically with respect to ERAP, the Emergency
7 Rental Assistance Program.
8 So it's my understanding that right
9 now there are about 318,000 ERAP applications
10 that have yet to be reviewed. Is the funding
11 that's being allocated in this bill for ERAP
12 enough to provide relief for those who have
13 applied but not yet received any money from the
14 program?
15 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you. We'll
16 accept your number for how many applications are
17 pending.
18 There is $800 million additional in
19 this budget to help pay down the cost for the
20 applicants. We don't believe that is enough. We
21 think that the applications pending may total as
22 much as $1.6 billion in arrears that we would
23 love to be able to pay.
24 We still have applications in to the
25 federal government for additional funds. And
2520
1 because ERAP was allocated through several bills,
2 with an understanding that if certain localities
3 didn't use the money they were authorized to
4 receive, that that would become money available
5 to other states who did need it.
6 So we have received a supplemental
7 payment of 100 million, approximately, from
8 ERAP 1 -- excuse me. So we have already received
9 300 million additional through the second round
10 for ERAP 1.
11 But there's also an ERAP 2 that we
12 have not yet learned what we could be eligible
13 for. So we are optimistic that that will be
14 additional money coming in from the federal
15 government. And we will continue to use that to
16 pay down applicants based, I think, in the
17 priority order of when they applied. Is that
18 right? Yes. So on a first-in, first-out model.
19 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
20 Mr. President. Through you, will the sponsor
21 yield for another question.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
23 yield?
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I do.
25 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2521
1 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Through you,
2 Mr. President.
3 If there's one thing we've learned
4 over the last year it's that the state had a
5 habitual inability to get this money out the
6 door. It took months and months for OTDA to get
7 that money out the door. It was a very, very
8 slow process. I know my office received lots of
9 calls from tenants who were making applications
10 to this program, as I'm sure did many of the
11 offices of Senators in this room.
12 Is there anything being done in this
13 budget to help streamline that process so that
14 the applications work a bit faster and that this
15 money gets out in a better way than it did last
16 year?
17 SENATOR KRUEGER: So I completely
18 agree that when the program started there was
19 enormous delays and it was extremely frustrating.
20 And I think you're right, probably every Senator
21 heard from constituents about this.
22 But it did really seem that once
23 they figured out how it was working and what they
24 needed to do and the computer system that they
25 had quickly pulled together, that things sped up
2522
1 significantly.
2 We also have a new commissioner of
3 OTDA, and a new Governor. And I personally have
4 found his office to be very much on top of these
5 issues with -- and we have had conversations
6 about ways to speed up the process.
7 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Mr. President,
8 on the bill.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Martucci on
10 the bill.
11 SENATOR MARTUCCI: First, I want to
12 thank Senator Krueger for answering my two
13 questions.
14 The only thing I want to say,
15 Mr. President, is that I too am hopeful that
16 we're going to be able to get this appropriation
17 out the door, into the hands of our tenants that
18 need it, into the hands of our landlords.
19 And I would also say that one of the
20 other problematic issues that's been going on is
21 that folks have been able to apply to a program
22 that doesn't have any money in it. And what that
23 means is that these applications get backed up,
24 and what it means is that these rental arrears
25 just grow and grow and grow. And as they
2523
1 balloon, our landlords are put in a place where
2 they still have to maintain their buildings and
3 support their properties without any
4 reimbursement.
5 So again, sort of harkening back to
6 the same time last year when we stood on the
7 floor and said the same thing, we're glad to see
8 that this is here. We want to make sure this
9 relief gets where it needs to go, which is
10 designed for our tenants, into the hands of our
11 landlords. I look forward to that happening in a
12 better way than it did last year.
13 Thank you, Mr. President.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Borrello.
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you,
16 Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield for a
17 question.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
19 yield?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: As long as it's
21 not about cannabis.
22 (Laughter.)
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: No, it's not.
25 SENATOR KRUEGER: Wait, I'm so
2524
1 sorry. The topic that you're going to ask about?
2 SENATOR BORRELLO: I want to talk
3 about unemployment insurance.
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: My colleague, the
5 chair of Labor, would love to talk to you about
6 that.
7 So, Mr. President, through you, I'm
8 going to hand it over to Senator Ramos.
9 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
10 yield?
11 SENATOR RAMOS: I do.
12 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: Thank you.
14 Through you, Mr. President, do you
15 happen to know what our current unemployment
16 insurance deficit is here in New York State?
17 SENATOR RAMOS: Nine-point-five
18 billion.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: Nine-point-five
20 billion, with a B.
21 Mr. President, will the sponsor
22 continue to yield.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
24 yield?
25 SENATOR RAMOS: I do.
2525
1 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2 SENATOR BORRELLO: Do you happen to
3 know what the projected interest assessment
4 surcharge from the federal government is on that
5 9.5 billion?
6 SENATOR RAMOS: This year it's
7 around 250 million in interest.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
9 will the sponsor continue to yield.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
11 yield?
12 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR BORRELLO: Do you know who
15 pays that? Who's supposed to pay that money?
16 SENATOR RAMOS: Employers. The
17 experience rating on employers.
18 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
19 will the sponsor continue to yield.
20 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
21 yield?
22 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR BORRELLO: Do you happen to
25 know how many states have dedicated their federal
2526
1 pandemic relief money to filling the craters that
2 were created by the pandemic for their
3 unemployment insurance funds?
4 SENATOR RAMOS: I don't. Please
5 tell me.
6 SENATOR BORRELLO: Is that a
7 question, Mr. President?
8 THE PRESIDENT: Would you like to
9 form a question?
10 SENATOR RAMOS: Sure.
11 THE PRESIDENT: Will you yield for
12 a question?
13 SENATOR BORRELLO: Yes.
14 THE PRESIDENT: You want to ask it?
15 SENATOR BORRELLO: You have to ask
16 the question now.
17 SENATOR RAMOS: Well, why don't you
18 tell me how many other states.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: It's 32.
20 Thirty-two states have dedicated their funding.
21 New York obviously is not one of those 32.
22 Mr. President, will the sponsor
23 continue to yield.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
25 yield?
2527
1 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
2 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR BORRELLO: Are there any
4 plans in this $220 billion budget to dedicate any
5 funding to filling that $9.5 billion crater that
6 was created by bad policy, essentially, here in
7 New York State?
8 SENATOR RAMOS: We do not have any
9 state funding going towards this purpose, but we
10 expect to have everything paid off by 2028.
11 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
12 will the sponsor continue to yield?
13 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
14 yield?
15 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
16 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
17 SENATOR BORRELLO: When you say
18 "we," who is "we"? Who is going to pay that off?
19 SENATOR RAMOS: The State of
20 New York, through the contributions of the
21 employers.
22 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
23 will the sponsor continue to yield.
24 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
25 yield?
2528
1 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
2 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
3 SENATOR BORRELLO: How is the State
4 of New York going to pay that?
5 SENATOR RAMOS: It's through the
6 experience rating of the employers, like any
7 other insurance policy.
8 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
9 will the sponsor continue to yield?
10 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
11 yield?
12 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yield.
14 SENATOR BORRELLO: So it's not
15 New York State, then, you're saying, it's the
16 employers, the people of New York State that are
17 going to pay that.
18 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes.
19 SENATOR BORRELLO: Mr. President,
20 on the bill.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Borrello on
22 the bill.
23 SENATOR BORRELLO: So here we are
24 talking about what we're going to do for the
25 people of New York State and our businesses, the
2529
1 small businesses that were devastated. We've
2 done a lot -- negatively, unfortunately.
3 This crater, $9.5 billion, was
4 created certainly as part of the pandemic, but it
5 was largely created by bad policy, the policy
6 that allowed anyone to quit their job and collect
7 unemployment. That's really what this was about.
8 To this day, right now, you can still quit your
9 job in New York State and collect unemployment.
10 And that burden is being borne by every single
11 employer in New York State.
12 We also don't know how much fraud we
13 had in our system. I asked Commissioner Reardon
14 about this during the hearings, the budget
15 hearings. She doesn't want to know. The
16 Governor doesn't want to know. It's got to be a
17 huge number. California is somewhere in the area
18 of 25 billion and growing. But here in New York,
19 we're just going to cover our eyes and pretend it
20 didn't happen.
21 So New York State's not paying this
22 9.5 billion, the employers are. The interest,
23 everything else. It's going to take more than a
24 decade of every single employer in New York State
25 paying the maximum rate in order to cover that
2530
1 deficit. That's what we've done for the
2 employers of New York State, the people that pay
3 into that system. We have maxed them out for a
4 decade. And we have the money to pay it, like
5 32 other states, and we haven't done it. It's
6 disgraceful.
7 That's what we are doing for the
8 employers, the small businesses that employ half
9 of the people in New York State. We're kicking
10 the can down the road and telling them we're not
11 going to do a damn thing about it. I think it's
12 a disgrace.
13 And therefore, for that and many
14 other reasons, I'll be a no on this bill.
15 Thank you, Mr. President.
16 THE PRESIDENT: Are there any other
17 Senators wishing to be heard?
18 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
19 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
20 Read the last section.
21 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
22 act shall take effect immediately.
23 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
24 (The Secretary called the roll.)
25 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Ramos to
2531
1 explain her vote.
2 SENATOR RAMOS: Yes, thank you,
3 Mr. President.
4 I'm voting aye on this bill. I
5 actually wanted to really just add a few things.
6 There are actually some employers
7 that haven't paid into the fund, and I want to
8 especially highlight Uber and Lyft, who before
9 the pandemic were granted unemployment insurance
10 for their drivers, for the for-hire vehicle
11 drivers, and yet they have not paid into our
12 unemployment insurance system, not one cent, to
13 this day. And I guarantee you that that's a lot
14 of money that may end up putting a burden on our
15 smaller businesses, which is something that I
16 worry about tremendously.
17 I just wanted to add that for the
18 record. Thank you, Mr. President.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Ramos to be
20 recorded in the affirmative.
21 Announce the results.
22 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
23 Calendar 754, those Senators voting in the
24 negative are Senators Akshar, Borrello, Boyle,
25 Gallivan, Griffo, Helming, Jordan, Lanza,
2532
1 Martucci, Mattera, Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt,
2 Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie, Serino, Stec, Tedisco and
3 Weik.
4 Ayes, 42. Nays, 20.
5 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is passed.
6 Senator Gianaris.
7 SENATOR GIANARIS: Mr. President,
8 we're going to stand at ease momentarily while we
9 await some paperwork to arrive.
10 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate stands
11 at ease.
12 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease
13 at 3:36 a.m.)
14 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at
15 4:20 a.m.)
16 THE PRESIDENT: The Senate will
17 return to order.
18 Senator Gianaris.
19 SENATOR GIANARIS: Okay,
20 Mr. President, can we return to the supplemental
21 calendar.
22 I think there was one bill still
23 remaining.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
25 read.
2533
1 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
2 755, Senate Print 8004D, Senate Budget Bill, an
3 act making appropriations for the support of
4 government.
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: Is there a
6 message of necessity at the desk?
7 THE PRESIDENT: There is a message
8 of necessity at the desk.
9 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to accept
10 the message of necessity.
11 THE PRESIDENT: All those in favor
12 of accepting the message please signify by saying
13 aye.
14 (Response of "Aye.")
15 THE PRESIDENT: Opposed, nay.
16 (Response of "Nay.")
17 THE PRESIDENT: The message is
18 accepted, and the bill is before the house.
19 SENATOR PALUMBO: Lay it aside,
20 please.
21 THE PRESIDENT: Lay it aside.
22 SENATOR GIANARIS: Can we move to
23 the controversial calendar.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The Secretary will
25 ring the bell.
2534
1 The Secretary will read.
2 THE SECRETARY: Calendar Number
3 755, Senate Print 8004D, Senate Budget Bill, an
4 act making appropriations for the support of
5 government.
6 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Martucci on
7 the bill.
8 SENATOR MARTUCCI: Thank you,
9 Mr. President.
10 I rise to discuss some concerns I
11 have with respect to the bill, specifically on
12 something that I was talking about a little bit
13 earlier this evening -- or I should say yesterday
14 evening; now I'm talking about it again this
15 morning.
16 And I was hoping to get some
17 straight questions and some serious answers about
18 funding for the Buffalo Bills stadium. I know my
19 constituents have concerns about the deal, and I
20 think many New Yorkers do too. And since I
21 struggled to get those answers, I was able to dig
22 through the bill to try to understand a little
23 bit about what this deal is and exactly what it's
24 costing New Yorkers.
25 And I think, you know, at quick
2535
1 glance there are several appropriations that are
2 totaling hundreds of millions of dollars. I
3 think I came up with $602 million. I think that
4 after we have some more time to take a look at
5 the bill, perhaps we'll confirm that or the
6 number might be a little different. But in
7 either case, we're talking about a really, really
8 big appropriation here.
9 And, you know, my colleague said
10 that this was one of the best deals for
11 New Yorkers, this was an awesome deal. But what
12 I can see concludes me to lead {sic} that this is
13 probably one of the worst deals -- probably one
14 of the worst deals in sports history, maybe
15 perhaps setting a new record, the worst deal
16 since Bobby Bonilla fleeced the Mets back many
17 years ago, and he's still getting a paycheck
18 today many, many years after his retirement.
19 And what we found out earlier today
20 was that the State of New York is even going to
21 take the stadium over and pay some operating
22 costs for many, many years.
23 So, you know, this deal remains, to
24 me -- I'm very skeptical and I have a tremendous
25 number of concerns. It reminds me of another
2536
1 deal that happened in Buffalo not that long ago
2 that cost the taxpayers of this state lots of
3 money, a billion dollars, and did not bring the
4 taxpayers the promised jobs or meet the goals
5 that we had anticipated.
6 You know, in preparation for coming
7 out here, I even came across a letter that was
8 signed by five of my colleagues in this room.
9 And I kind of wish I knew about this letter
10 before, because I would have signed onto this
11 letter. Because I think this letter is dead over
12 the target with respect to concerns on this
13 project.
14 My colleagues wrote: "This
15 proposal, negotiated in secret and only announced
16 days before the final budget is due, would
17 represent the largest public subsidy to an NFL
18 team in history."
19 So, you know, first I would tell my
20 colleagues who signed onto this letter, I think
21 you're absolutely right and I agree with you
22 completely.
23 You know, the -- this deal is not a
24 partisan issue, Mr. President. You know, there
25 are some of my colleagues who don't agree with
2537
1 me, there are some on the other side of the aisle
2 that do. So this is certainly something that
3 transcends politics in this chamber.
4 But I would agree that since we're
5 asking taxpayers to pay hundreds of millions of
6 dollars in this deal, I think it certainly
7 warranted a bit more sunlight, a bit more review,
8 not only by this body but by the public and by
9 others before we were bringing it to the floor
10 and passing it here today.
11 In fact, somebody who is undoubtedly
12 an expert on this budget proposal, the
13 chairwoman, expressed her concerns as well, and I
14 would tell you that I associate myself with your
15 concerns and your comments with respect to this
16 project as well.
17 Mr. President, I'm not a fan of this
18 deal. It is a bad backroom deal where I feel
19 like -- and I think many of us feel like we've
20 significantly overpaid. You know, as Senator
21 Kennedy said out here a little while ago, this
22 deal was to prevent the Bills from moving to
23 another city. And I would tell you that I
24 certainly don't want to see the Bills go to
25 another city, but at the same time I don't want
2538
1 to see our taxpayers here in New York be taken
2 for a ride.
3 So for that reason, again, I think
4 that this project warrants more consideration of
5 this body, more public review and consideration,
6 and it still remains a tremendous concern of
7 mine. And it is one of the reasons that I'll be
8 voting in the negative when it comes time.
9 Thank you, Mr. President.
10 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Palumbo.
11 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
12 Mr. President. Will the sponsor yield for just a
13 couple of quick questions, please.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
15 yield?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I will.
17 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
18 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
19 Senator Krueger. I just have a few line-item
20 questions and then I'm going to have a few
21 questions about the Bills, the Bills with a big
22 B. But we'll talk about this first, if you don't
23 mind.
24 In "Economic Development," the
25 Community Resiliency, Economic Stability and
2539
1 Technology Fund, I see $385 million. That seems
2 remarkably similar to the old SAM grants. Is
3 that the same fund?
4 SENATOR KRUEGER: I believe that
5 the questioner is basically correct. I think the
6 new initials stand -- end up being CREST, as
7 opposed to SAM. And it does appear to be very
8 similar, other than I think there's an expanded
9 eligibility. Because I believe in the past you
10 needed to be working through mostly government
11 for the projects, and I believe this allows
12 expansion for nonprofit organizations as well,
13 and perhaps even in certain circumstances
14 for-profit businesses as well.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Would the sponsor
16 continue to yield?
17 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
18 yield?
19 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
20 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
21 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you again,
22 Senator.
23 And right in that same section under
24 "Economic Development," there's another
25 $185 million fund, Local Community Assistance
2540
1 Program. Can you explain to me what that program
2 is for, please?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: It does appear to
4 be very similar, other than the first program you
5 described, I believe, is set up with a three-way
6 split between the Senate, the Assembly and the
7 Governor. And the second program I believe is
8 set up with just a two-way split.
9 SENATOR PALUMBO: Between the two
10 legislative -- will you continue to yield,
11 please.
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Of course.
13 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
14 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
15 Senator.
16 Was that between the two legislative
17 houses?
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
19 SENATOR PALUMBO: Gotcha. Okay.
20 Thank you.
21 And would you continue to yield,
22 please, Madam Chair?
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes, I would.
24 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
25 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you. And
2541
1 just two more funds I have questions about.
2 The Long Island regional projects,
3 $350 million. Are there any specific projects
4 identified for this fund at this point?
5 SENATOR KRUEGER: I believe not.
6 But it's my understanding that there will be
7 public information about said project or projects
8 prior to the spending of any money.
9 SENATOR PALUMBO: And thank you.
10 Would you continue to yield?
11 THE PRESIDENT: Will the sponsor
12 yield?
13 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
14 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
16 Senator.
17 And so those are just projects to be
18 named later, to continue with the sports
19 reference, I guess.
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: I'm not that good
21 with sports references, but I'll let you have
22 that.
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: Okay. Thank you.
24 And would you continue to yield for
25 a further question?
2542
1 THE PRESIDENT: Will the sponsor
2 yield?
3 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
4 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
5 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
6 Senator.
7 And so without specifically -- I
8 just want to identify what I believe are the
9 funds that are appropriated for the Bills over
10 the Governor's original budget, and including her
11 30-day amendments.
12 There's a -- it looks like it's in
13 the environment, there's a $182 million line item
14 and then a $418 million line item. Is that the
15 600 million for the Buffalo Bills?
16 SENATOR KRUEGER: I believe you are
17 correct. And the 418 million is from the recent
18 payments received from the Seneca Nation.
19 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you.
20 Would you continue to yield, please,
21 for one more question.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
23 yield?
24 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
25 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
2543
1 SENATOR PALUMBO: And thank you,
2 Senator Krueger.
3 So with that 600 million, I believe
4 there was some discussion or some concern that
5 the New York State Regional Economic and
6 Community Assistance Program, 800 million in the
7 Governor's original proposed budget, that that
8 800 million was going to be used for the Bills
9 funding -- capital B, Bills, the sports team --
10 because that wasn't in her original budget. So
11 what's that money going to go to now?
12 SENATOR KRUEGER: Just a moment.
13 SENATOR PALUMBO: Or if I can
14 complete my thought, is this just another fund
15 that's going to ultimately be appropriated for
16 some future project?
17 (Pause.)
18 SENATOR KRUEGER: Sorry,
19 Mr. President, I'm trying to make sure that I
20 have the right answer for my colleague.
21 SENATOR PALUMBO: Please take your
22 time.
23 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you.
24 So through you, Mr. President, there
25 is a line in the budget that's 800 million for
2544
1 New York State Regional and Community Assistance
2 Program, which is intended for economic
3 development, workforce, commercial development,
4 tourism, infrastructure improvement, small
5 business support, community and urban
6 revitalization in historically disadvantaged
7 communities.
8 I don't know if the Governor at an
9 earlier point actually intended to use any of
10 that money for the Buffalo Bills project, because
11 I think that there was also on the table simply
12 bonding for the project.
13 But I think the answer is at this
14 point, no, that is not how the budget is written,
15 she does not intend to use that for the Buffalo
16 Bills project.
17 SENATOR PALUMBO: Understood.
18 Thank you, Senator. Would you continue to yield.
19 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
20 yield?
21 SENATOR KRUEGER: Yes.
22 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
23 SENATOR PALUMBO: So just for a
24 quick follow-up, do you have any idea what that
25 money might actually be used for now that it's
2545
1 actually in this particular bill?
2 SENATOR KRUEGER: For
3 future-determined economic development projects,
4 I would assume, going through ESDC.
5 So every year we put money into
6 usually capital funds that are used through ESDC
7 for an assortment of different economic
8 development projects. They often include the
9 Regional Economic Development -- what are they,
10 task forces or -- Councils, thank you, I lost the
11 word, that are making recommendations, at least
12 in the past. Obviously this is a new governor,
13 so she may have a different approach to it.
14 But I don't think it's particularly
15 new for us to see lined-out economic development
16 funds that are not described exactly as to how
17 they will be used.
18 I will point out, given the late
19 hour, that I'm very proud of the fact that within
20 the budget documents we have built in a Database
21 of Deals that will require much greater review
22 and scrutiny and documentation of how the state
23 is using money for economic development deals,
24 what kind of return the state is getting on them,
25 the number of jobs, the deals as far as clawbacks
2546
1 if the commitments are not made.
2 We also, in a separate section, also
3 expanded the ability to have the Comptroller's
4 office audit and review any of these programs to
5 find out more details, if that is the wish of the
6 state and there are questions about any of these
7 programs.
8 Which I also think is an excellent
9 move towards both transparency and for us to --
10 all of us, the public, to have a better
11 understanding of how monies are being used and
12 whether they're in fact meeting their target
13 goals of economic development or not being
14 successful.
15 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
16 Senator. Would you continue to yield for one
17 short last question?
18 THE PRESIDENT: Does the sponsor
19 yield?
20 SENATOR KRUEGER: I can keep going.
21 Yes.
22 (Laughter.)
23 THE PRESIDENT: The sponsor yields.
24 SENATOR PALUMBO: You're doing
25 great. And this is truly it. I just wanted to
2547
1 do simple math.
2 Of course last year's ESDC entire
3 fund was 380 million, so this is, of course, 800
4 now, so it's more than double, correct?
5 Through all Empire State Development
6 capital, was my understanding.
7 SENATOR KRUEGER: That's correct.
8 I don't think that we were doing a lot of new
9 economic development activities in the last year
10 or two, given the COVID situation.
11 SENATOR PALUMBO: Thank you,
12 Senator Krueger. I have no further questions.
13 Thank you, Mr. President.
14 THE PRESIDENT: Thank you.
15 Are there any other Senators wishing
16 to be heard?
17 Seeing and hearing none, debate is
18 closed. The Secretary will ring the bell.
19 Read the last section.
20 THE SECRETARY: Section 3. This
21 act shall take effect immediately.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Call the roll.
23 (The Secretary called the roll.)
24 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Brisport to
25 explain his vote.
2548
1 SENATOR BRISPORT: Thank you,
2 Mr. President. And good morning.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Good morning.
4 SENATOR BRISPORT: So we are in the
5 process of voting on a budget that comes nowhere
6 close to funding our constituents' most dire
7 needs, as everyone in this chamber knows.
8 And for the past three weeks
9 Governor Hochul has fought our funding proposals
10 on housing, on Fair Pay for Home Care, on
11 childcare, on healthcare, on a New Deal for CUNY,
12 and on combating climate change, because she did
13 not want to raise taxes on the ultra-rich to
14 secure the necessary revenue.
15 Yet at the last hour, she had no
16 trouble finding $350 million for a mysterious
17 slush fund through which she can exercise
18 unchecked, unilateral power over public money.
19 She also had no trouble finding
20 hundreds of millions of dollars for the largest
21 public subsidy in NFL history, for a handout to
22 the billionaire owner of the Buffalo Bills.
23 She has tried to pass off this new
24 stadium as an investment, knowing that the
25 consensus among economists is that it will not
2549
1 result in any meaningful economic benefit to
2 Buffalo. These trickle-down handouts simply do
3 not work.
4 Through this bill and the entire
5 budget process, Governor Hochul has made it clear
6 that all her claims about caring for the
7 well-being of New Yorkers and working with the
8 Legislature were false. She has made it clear
9 that her only real interests are in appealing to
10 the rich and keeping power.
11 I am voting nay, and I will be
12 working with Assemblymember Ron Kim to pass
13 legislation that at least gives New Yorkers the
14 right to a controlling share of the for-profit
15 football team that the Governor is forcing them
16 to finance.
17 Thank you.
18 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Brisport to
19 be recorded in the negative.
20 Senator Cleare to explain her vote.
21 SENATOR CLEARE: Good morning.
22 THE PRESIDENT: Good morning.
23 SENATOR CLEARE: Thank you.
24 I've only held this seat for a few
25 months, and this is my first budget. And many
2550
1 people have been asking me how I feel about the
2 budget.
3 Well, I'm very proud of some things.
4 I'm proud of my bill to provide individuals
5 leaving prison with state-issued IDs, to remove
6 one less barrier to having a more successful
7 reentry to a new beginning.
8 I'm happy for the money we added to
9 CUNY for the nursing expansion -- the SEEK
10 opportunity and nursing expansion programs.
11 Money for universal pre-K, tuition assistance for
12 prisoners, capital funding for libraries, fair
13 wages for our badly needed home care workers.
14 But it is not enough. Senator May,
15 I thank you -- she's not here, but I want to
16 thank her for leading this fight, and the
17 advocates and every other group and individual
18 who fought for this.
19 I'm proud of our efforts to secure
20 funding for NYCHA and our $350 million add to the
21 budget. But it is not enough. My district
22 covers Harlem, portions of East Harlem, West
23 Harlem, Washington Heights, and the Upper West
24 Side. I have the highest concentration of public
25 housing in the Borough of Manhattan. And it is
2551
1 literally falling apart. We must do more.
2 Despite the hard work of the staff,
3 the conference, and the leader, we did not get
4 the Housing Access Voucher Program dollars that
5 are desperately needed by New Yorkers who have
6 been trapped in shelters, unable to find
7 apartments they can afford with the vouchers
8 they're currently being handed out.
9 New Yorkers have been struggling to
10 pay rent even before the pandemic. We have to do
11 more.
12 So how do I feel about the budget?
13 I'm going to borrow a line from my colleague
14 Senator Sanders, who often says "I'm still in the
15 fight." That's how I feel about this budget. We
16 didn't get it all in this moment for a variety of
17 reasons, including the inability to reach a
18 three-way agreement. But we are still in the
19 fight to do more for public housing and to create
20 and fund programs that result in truly affordable
21 housing for low-to-moderate-income New Yorkers.
22 We spent hours debating bail in this
23 room. I look forward to hours debating or
24 planning to get housing for New Yorkers, which is
25 equally a part of the safety, security and health
2552
1 of New Yorkers.
2 I vote aye on the bill.
3 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Cleare to
4 be recorded in the affirmative.
5 Senator Krueger to explain her vote.
6 SENATOR KRUEGER: Thank you,
7 Mr. President.
8 So this is the final bill.
9 Budgets are never something that I think anyone
10 can agree with completely. We have frustrations.
11 We have things that we didn't get in. We have
12 questions about many of the decisions. And yet
13 we go through this process every year to try to
14 make the best decisions we make.
15 So this capital budget is about
16 $20 billion. It might be higher; it might to
17 closer to $21 billion. And so I can agree with
18 many of the plans for that money, and it's why I
19 can vote for this bill.
20 But for the record -- and it's been
21 pointed out -- I've never thought New York should
22 ever put money into a private sports franchise or
23 sports stadium. And in my years here in the
24 Senate, I've actually voted against money for the
25 Yankees, the Mets, the Nets, the Islanders -- I
2553
1 think there was one more -- because I don't think
2 it is a good use of the public's money.
3 I also am focused, and I think we
4 all need to be focused, on making sure that we
5 all have information about how money is being
6 spent and whether the reward is worth it to the
7 people of New York. Because frankly, when we
8 decide that we're going to function as investors
9 or venture capitalists who say that we're putting
10 money into economic development, we're actually
11 making the decision to take taxpayers' money and
12 then act like we are venture capitalists. Though
13 I'm not sure any of us are, or are particularly
14 good at it.
15 So I hope that with the changes in
16 the Article VII language that went through this
17 year, in addition to continuing economic
18 development spending, we will be seeing a far
19 superior outcome of evaluation that will lead us
20 to making sure that we don't continue to spend
21 money where it's not justified and that we only
22 spend the people's money in categories of
23 economic development where we're actually getting
24 a win for the people.
25 So don't like some, do like some.
2554
1 I'm voting yes. But I think -- and I appreciate
2 my colleagues on both sides of the aisle's
3 opinions about their concerns about economic
4 development spending and that we all want to know
5 more, and we want to be able to evaluate.
6 Thank you, Mr. President.
7 THE PRESIDENT: Senator Krueger to
8 be recorded in the affirmative.
9 Announce the results.
10 THE SECRETARY: In relation to
11 Calendar 755, those Senators voting in the
12 negative are Senators Akshar, Biaggi, Borrello,
13 Boyle, Brisport, Gallivan, Griffo, Helming,
14 Hoylman, Jordan, Lanza, Martucci, Mattera,
15 Oberacker, O'Mara, Ortt, Palumbo, Rath, Ritchie,
16 Serino, Stec, Tedisco and Weik.
17 Ayes, 39. Nays, 23.
18 THE PRESIDENT: The bill is passed.
19 Senator Gianaris, that completes the
20 reading of the controversial calendar.
21 SENATOR GIANARIS: And that
22 completes the enactment of the State Budget.
23 Let me thank my colleagues for their
24 indulgence, their patience and their respect of
25 one another over the last few days.
2555
1 Mr. President, is there any further
2 business at the desk?
3 THE PRESIDENT: There is no further
4 business at the desk.
5 SENATOR GIANARIS: Move to adjourn
6 until Monday, April 25th, at 3:00 p.m. --
7 (Applause.)
8 SENATOR GIANARIS: -- intervening
9 days being legislative days.
10 THE PRESIDENT: On motion, the
11 Senate stands adjourned until Monday, April 25th,
12 at 3:00 p.m., intervening days being legislative
13 days.
14 (Whereupon, at 4:43 a.m., the Senate
15 adjourned.)
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