Regular Session - April 10, 2023

                                                                   2213

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                   April 10, 2023

11                     11:17 a.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR JEREMY A. COONEY, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               2214

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 3    Senate will come to order.  

 4                 I ask everyone present to please 

 5    rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7    the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) 

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   In the 

 9    absence of clergy, let us bow our heads in a 

10    moment of silent reflection or prayer.

11                 (Whereupon, the assemblage respected 

12    a moment of silence.)

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Reading 

14    of the Journal.

15                 THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, 

16    Saturday, April 8, 2023, the Senate met pursuant 

17    to adjournment.  The Journal of Friday, April 7, 

18    2023, was read and approved.  On motion, the 

19    Senate adjourned.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Without 

21    objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

22                 Presentation of petitions.

23                 Messages from the Assembly.

24                 Messages from the Governor.

25                 Reports of standing committees.


                                                               2215

 1                 Reports of select committees.

 2                 Communications and reports from 

 3    state officers.

 4                 Motions and resolutions.

 5                 Senator Gianaris.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Good morning, 

 7    Mr. President.  

 8                 On behalf of Senator Krueger, I wish 

 9    to call up Senate Print 131, recalled from the 

10    Assembly, which is now at the desk.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

12    Secretary will read.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

14    147, Senate Print 131, by Senator Krueger, an act 

15    to amend the Education Law.

16                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to 

17    reconsider the vote by which the bill was passed.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

19    roll.

20                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 56.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

23    is restored to its place on the Third Reading 

24    Calendar.

25                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I offer the 


                                                               2216

 1    following amendments.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 3    amendments are received, and the bill will retain 

 4    its place on the Third Reading Calendar.

 5                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Amendments are 

 6    also offered to the following Third Reading 

 7    Calendar bills:  

 8                 By Senator Skoufis, Calendar Number 

 9    389, Senate Print 3531;

10                 And by Senator Fernandez, Calendar 

11    Number 473, Senate Print 4555.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    amendments are received, and the bills will 

14    retain their place on the Third Reading Calendar.

15                 Senator Gianaris.

16                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I move to adopt 

17    the Resolution Calendar.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   All those 

19    in favor of adopting the Resolution Calendar 

20    please signify by saying aye.

21                 (Response of "Aye.")

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Opposed, 

23    nay?  

24                 (No response.)

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 


                                                               2217

 1    Resolution Calendar is adopted.

 2                 Senator Gianaris.

 3                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   There will be an 

 4    immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in 

 5    Room 332.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   There 

 7    will be an immediate meeting of the 

 8    Rules Committee in Room 332.

 9                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   The Senate will 

10    stand at ease.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

12    Senate will stand at ease.

13                 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

14    at 11:19 a.m.)

15                 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

16    11:24 a.m.)

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

18    Senate will return to order.

19                 Senator Gianaris.

20                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Mr. President, 

21    there's a report of the Rules Committee at the 

22    desk.  Can we please take that up.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

24    Secretary will read.

25                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator 


                                                               2218

 1    Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules, 

 2    reports the following bill:

 3                 Senate Print 6260, by 

 4    Senator Krueger, an act making appropriations for 

 5    the support of government.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 7    the report of the Rules Committee.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   All those 

 9    in favor of accepting the report of the 

10    Rules Committee signify by saying aye.

11                 (Response of "Aye.")

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Opposed, 

13    nay.

14                 (No response.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

16    report of the Rules Committee is accepted.

17                 Senator Gianaris.

18                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please take up 

19    the supplemental calendar.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    Secretary will read.

22                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

23    589, Senate Print 6260, by Senator Krueger, an 

24    act making appropriations for the support of 

25    government.


                                                               2219

 1                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there a 

 2    message of necessity and appropriation at the 

 3    desk?  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   There is 

 5    a message of necessity and appropriation.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 7    the message.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   All those 

 9    in favor of accepting the message please signify 

10    by saying aye.

11                 (Response of "Aye.")

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Opposed, 

13    nay.

14                 (Response of "Nay.")

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

16    message is accepted.  The bill is before the 

17    house.

18                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Lay it 

20    aside.

21                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

22    reading of the calendar.

23                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let's take up 

24    the controversial calendar, please.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 


                                                               2220

 1    Secretary will ring the bell.

 2                 The Secretary will read.

 3                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 4    589, Senate Print 6260, by Senator Krueger, an 

 5    act making appropriations for the support of 

 6    government.

 7                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Good morning.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Senator 

 9    O'Mara, why do you rise?  

10                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Good morning, 

11    Mr. President.  Thank you.  I have a -- will have 

12    some questions on this bill.  But first, through 

13    you, Mr. President, if Senator Krueger could 

14    explain the bill before us.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you very 

18    much.  I'd be happy to.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   The bill is an 

22    extender to take us through next Monday, the 

23    17th.  

24                 Last week we were here and we passed 

25    an extender for a week, taking us through today.  


                                                               2221

 1    And this would be a second extender, because -- 

 2    perhaps in preparation for the next question -- 

 3    no, there are no budget bills in print for us to 

 4    vote on today.  Hence, in order to ensure that 

 5    the State of New York continue its government in 

 6    operation, with its workers being paid, we need 

 7    to pass an additional extender today.

 8                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

 9    Mr. President, if Senator Krueger would yield for 

10    a question.  

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

12    sponsor yield?

13                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

15    sponsor yields.

16                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Good morning, 

17    Senator.  Thank you for that explanation.

18                 You know, we knew last Monday, 

19    regardless of whether we had a budget done over 

20    the weekend or not, that we were going to have to 

21    do this extender today to make payroll on 

22    Wednesday for so many state workers.  

23                 So why are we doing this bill today, 

24    on a message of necessity, when we could have 

25    done a two-week last week and avoided having all 


                                                               2222

 1    the members come back to Albany for this one 

 2    item?

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you for 

 4    that question.  

 5                 And through you, Mr. President.  I 

 6    have no disagreement, but we don't do extender 

 7    bills.  The Governor passes down an extender 

 8    bill.  She sets the timeline and what's in it and 

 9    then sends a message of necessity when it's come 

10    so late that the three days of aging could not 

11    happen.  

12                 So we in this house, both sides, 

13    have no choice today other than do we vote for 

14    this extender and continue government and the 

15    workers getting paid, or do we not.  That's the 

16    only option in front of us.

17                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

18    Mr. President, if Senator Krueger would yield for 

19    another question.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

21    sponsor yield? 

22                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

24    sponsor yields.

25                 SENATOR O'MARA:   So, 


                                                               2223

 1    Senator Krueger, then this is all upon the 

 2    Governor's back -- I suppose tweaking the 

 3    Legislature to come back weekly because there is 

 4    no budget done and there has been no submission 

 5    to her demands in the budget that these 

 6    majorities disagree with.

 7                 The -- you know, the Governor could 

 8    have submitted an extender, knowing there was no 

 9    budget on April 1st when we were here last, 

10    through next Monday the 17th, and saved the state 

11    the expense of calling the Legislature back here 

12    for one day last Monday and one day today.  

13                 Could not the Governor have done 

14    that at that time?  

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So legally, yes, 

16    the Governor could have done that.  

17                 As to the Governor's motivation, 

18    which was really the beginning of the Senator's 

19    question, I have no inside knowledge of what the 

20    Governor's motivation is for giving us two 

21    one-week extenders versus one two-week extender 

22    last Monday.  

23                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Mr. President, if 

24    the Senator will continue to yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 


                                                               2224

 1    sponsor yield?

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 4    sponsor yields.

 5                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, 

 6    do you have any estimate for what it costs the 

 7    taxpayers of New York to call this Legislature 

 8    back into session for one day?  

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I don't believe I 

10    do.  

11                 I suppose someone could calculate 

12    the number of legislators that showed up, what 

13    their per diem would be for that trip.  We all 

14    get paid -- or in this case, don't get paid -- 

15    regardless of whether we're coming to Albany or 

16    not, so there's not a payroll question.

17                 So no, I don't know.  Do you know?  

18    I'm sorry.  Through you, Mr. President, perhaps I 

19    may ask if my colleague knows.

20                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.  I -- 

21    you know, other than approximations, as you said, 

22    depending on how many members actually show up -- 

23    I see most of our seats are filled over here.  A 

24    few empty seats over there.  

25                 You know, roughly, my calculations 


                                                               2225

 1    for per diems and mileage for the members comes 

 2    in anywhere around sixty to $70,000, I think.

 3                 Would you think that's all in the 

 4    ballpark or close to the --

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 6    sponsor yield?

 7                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Will the sponsor 

 8    yield.

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   The sponsor will 

13    yield, and the sponsor will say she has not done 

14    those calculations.  

15                 So I'm willing to accept that my 

16    colleague's projection sounds reasonable, but I 

17    have no basis in knowing because I didn't go 

18    through the per diems and try to add them up 

19    before now.

20                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you.  

21                 Mr. President, if the Senator will 

22    continue to yield.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.


                                                               2226

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, 

 4    are we any closer to a budget today than we were 

 5    last Monday?  

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   My understanding 

 7    is yes, that we have made some progress and that 

 8    the leadership continues to meet and will 

 9    continue to meet.  

10                 And I'm a glass-half-full kind of 

11    person, so I'm actually feeling more optimistic 

12    today than I was last Monday.

13                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President, if the Senator would yield.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

16    sponsor continue to yield?  

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR O'MARA:   I would like to 

21    share your optimism, Senator Krueger, and I hope 

22    that's accurate.  

23                 But as we stand here today, are 

24    there any table targets for any aspect of the 

25    budget at this point?


                                                               2227

 1                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   No, I don't 

 2    believe the discussions are around specific table 

 3    targets as much as around major policy issues 

 4    still to be resolved within the budget, which of 

 5    course have dollars attached to them.

 6                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 7    Senator.

 8                 Mr. President, if Senator Krueger 

 9    would continue to yield.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR O'MARA:   So there's no 

16    table target or agreement on the overall 

17    education budget and its appropriation at this 

18    point, is that correct?

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   That is correct.  

20    We are not in a place where we have details that 

21    have been three-way-agreed that will actually 

22    eventually show up in budget language for us all 

23    to see.

24                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

25    Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to 


                                                               2228

 1    yield.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield?

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, 

 8    as you know, this is the time of the year and 

 9    part of the problems with the late budget, 

10    particularly around education -- that's why I 

11    asked about that bill in particular -- where our 

12    school districts need to prepare their school 

13    budgets to send them out for a vote, and they 

14    don't know what they're getting.

15                 So how are they able to plan for 

16    their budgets that have to go to a vote by the 

17    public when our budget here doesn't unfortunately 

18    have to go before the public, it's just before 

19    us?  So how can our school districts be planning 

20    for that with these delays encroaching upon their 

21    time to be submitting their budget to their 

22    voters?

23                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do think that 

24    my colleague is right, that when you look at what 

25    is the impact of a later budget in any given 


                                                               2229

 1    fiscal year, when you're doing straight extenders 

 2    and you're assuring people that government will 

 3    continue to operate and the people will -- the 

 4    workers will continue to get paid, the 

 5    recognition is there's not that much difference 

 6    whether a budget is a couple of weeks late.  With 

 7    the one exception, I think as my colleague's 

 8    pointed out, that we certainly want to get this 

 9    done before I believe the May budget votes that 

10    take place in X percentage of the counties.

11                 But I think in this year in 

12    particular, when you look at what the Governor 

13    originally proposed as funding for education and 

14    then look at both one-house bills, I think that 

15    reasonably most boards of elections or school 

16    districts who are trying to evaluate their budget 

17    projections can assume reasonably that the dollar 

18    amount will not be less than what the Governor 

19    proposed, and probably in some cases will be 

20    more, since both houses have put in some specific 

21    items they hope to see more of.

22                 So if this was a year where we had a 

23    Governor who was starting out with a cut in 

24    school funding, I would be more concerned for the 

25    local districts in trying to decide their 


                                                               2230

 1    budgets.

 2                 Given what we know already, despite 

 3    not having the final numbers, I think there is 

 4    less reason to be concerned.

 5                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 6    Senator.

 7                 Mr. President, if the Senator will 

 8    continue to yield.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

10    sponsor yield?

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator, are there 

15    any what we would call policy changes in this 

16    extender?  Last week there were none.  Are there 

17    any policy changes in this extender?  

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.  

19                 In the sense that while we have 

20    still not completed negotiations on the health 

21    program funding -- and there's quite a bit of 

22    categories in healthcare funding -- there was a 

23    time -- excuse me, there was something that we 

24    passed two years ago ending the 340B program in 

25    healthcare funding.  And the concern by many 


                                                               2231

 1    providers was that without this funding or 

 2    alternative funding, they were going to be in 

 3    serious trouble and even have to lay people off.

 4                 The Governor, I think in what I see 

 5    as a good-faith effort to make clear that we are 

 6    addressing this somehow in the budget 

 7    negotiations, put in I believe $9 million for 

 8    this one week, specifically to go to the 

 9    providers who as of April 1st would have lost 

10    340B funding because that was, from two years 

11    ago, sunsetting April 1, 2023.

12                 So I don't know whether you'd call 

13    that a policy change.  I think that would be what 

14    you meant there.

15                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

16    Senator.

17                 Through you, Mr. President, if 

18    Senator Krueger will continue to yield.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield? 

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Yes, thank you, 

25    Senator, that was exactly the point I was trying 


                                                               2232

 1    to make.  

 2                 So it's technically not a policy 

 3    change, but this is the first time we're funding 

 4    that policy that was set up two years ago.  Is 

 5    that pretty accurate?  

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, actually -- 

 7    yes, I'm sorry.  It's both.  

 8                 We established that as of April 1st, 

 9    funding would move out of one set of activities 

10    into pharmacy reimbursement -- so 340B would 

11    shift to more going to pharmacy reimbursements 

12    for the drugs -- but would actually be taken away 

13    from healthcare providers who are operating 

14    specific programs for chronically ill people -- 

15    chronically ill low-income people; for example, 

16    people with HIV.  

17                 And so the Governor here is 

18    attempting to show that, as she referenced in her 

19    original Executive Budget -- but I think more 

20    both houses were pushing for more clarity and 

21    more of a commitment that we were actually going 

22    to be keeping whole the providers who were losing 

23    money through 340B because it was going to 

24    pharmacies instead, but we were going to try to 

25    make them whole with additional other funds 


                                                               2233

 1    through healthcare.  

 2                 And so even though that also will 

 3    not have been completely resolved -- because we 

 4    would be discussing a budget bill with that in it 

 5    if it was -- I believe that her intention with 

 6    that $9 million for this week was to show she was 

 7    making good that money would continue to flow to 

 8    the providers who now technically have lost 340B 

 9    as of April 1st.

10                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

11    Senator.

12                 Mr. President, if the Senator will 

13    continue to yield.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

15    sponsor continue to yield?  

16                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

18    sponsor yields.

19                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Can you explain to 

20    us, Senator Krueger, that $9 million due to the 

21    change in the 340B program, is that state funds?  

22    Or is that just a different way of appropriating 

23    the federal Medicaid dollars that are coming in 

24    anyways?

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   We're trading 


                                                               2234

 1    staff, so she can help --

 2                 SENATOR O'MARA:   I noticed that.

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the groups 

 4    getting the money are federally eligible for 

 5    different healthcare funds, but the $9 million 

 6    that is in this extender is specifically state 

 7    money.

 8                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 9    Senator.

10                 Mr. President, if the sponsor would 

11    continue to yield.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

13    sponsor yield? 

14                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

16    sponsor yields.

17                 SENATOR O'MARA:   I guess the crux 

18    of my question is, is this change in the 

19    340B program, even though this -- this week's 

20    extender is $9 million of state funds, not 

21    federal funds -- in the annual picture of this 

22    change in the program, how is that changing the 

23    cost of state funds versus federal Medicaid 

24    dollars that come in?

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   A second staff 


                                                               2235

 1    person.

 2                 So right now -- again, as I just 

 3    answered earlier -- this will be state money, the 

 4    $9 million.  And is, again, a statement by the 

 5    Governor we believe is saying we're going to 

 6    figure this out, but we haven't figured it out 

 7    yet.

 8                 340B money is federal.  We are not 

 9    giving that back.  We are shifting what it's 

10    being used for, with some expectation -- at least 

11    by the one-house budget that this house passed -- 

12    that there will be some kind of compromise 

13    combination ensuring that there's -- the 340B 

14    money is maximized and not sent back to the feds, 

15    but that there is additional money available to 

16    make sure that the other providers who will be 

17    losing 340B because of this change are kept 

18    whole.

19                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

20    Senator.

21                 Mr. President, if the Senator will 

22    continue to yield.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.


                                                               2236

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you for 

 4    that, Senator.  It doesn't really clear up the 

 5    issue -- at least in my mind, anyways.  And the 

 6    health area not being my particular bailiwick, 

 7    I'll leave it at that confused state at this 

 8    point for today.

 9                 This extender today is for, what, 

10    about $1.5 billion for the week?  

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Again, just a 

12    hundred million off.  We show 1.6 billion.  But 

13    1.6, 1.5, yes.

14                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

15    Mr. President, if Senator Krueger would continue 

16    to yield.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    Senator yields.

22                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Last week's 

23    extender was somewhat over 400 million, so this 

24    is about more than triple.  

25                 Can you explain why, one week to the 


                                                               2237

 1    next week, there's such a variance in the flow of 

 2    cash?

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So like our 

 4    personal budgets, some weeks you get hit with 

 5    your insurance costs, your monthly rent.  Some 

 6    weeks you don't.  

 7                 So what we are advised by the 

 8    Governor's people is that this $1.6 billion is in 

 9    fact what's needed to cover the week's bills as 

10    of this week, this month.  On another week it 

11    would be a different amount -- perhaps less 

12    again -- depending on what's owed that week.

13                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Through you, 

14    Mr. President, if the Senator will continue to 

15    yield.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

17    sponsor yield?

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

20    sponsor yields.

21                 SENATOR O'MARA:   So, Senator, so 

22    the last two weeks combined is just about 

23    $2 billion for the two weeks.  If you extrapolate 

24    those two weeks out over the year, that's a far 

25    cry from our $220 billion that we have.


                                                               2238

 1                 So are you telling us that at 

 2    certain points over the year those weekly 

 3    payments are going to be far more substantial 

 4    than this, they're just not needed this week?

 5                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, that is my 

 6    understanding.  

 7                 And I think if we were to take a 

 8    moment and go look at the Office of Comptroller, 

 9    you know, reports that come out on cash flow 

10    moving in and out of the accounts of the state, 

11    we would find that there are very extreme 

12    differences between weeks and months of the year.

13                 So specifically what we are provided 

14    by the Governor in this bill supposedly is 

15    bills -- this provides funds for payroll and 

16    fringe benefit costs, general state charge 

17    payments, OTDA and safety net assistance and 

18    family assistance direct benefits, Department of 

19    Health Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for 

20    Women, Infants and Children payments, AIDS Drug 

21    Assistance Programs for New Yorkers reinvestment, 

22    Indian Health Program, Department of Labor for 

23    the continuation of unemployment insurance 

24    benefits, Department of Transportation for mass 

25    transit operating assistance, statutory payments 


                                                               2239

 1    for blind veterans, and nonpersonal service 

 2    payments.

 3                 I don't have a breakdown with me of 

 4    the individual amount for each of those.

 5                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 6    Senator Krueger.

 7                 Mr. President, if the Senator will 

 8    continue to yield.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

10    Senator yield?

11                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

13    sponsor yields.

14                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you for that 

15    general outline.  I have a list of some of those 

16    more specific dollar items, and I don't need to 

17    get into that for this debate today.

18                 You mentioned that the budget is 

19    being held up by some significant policy issues.  

20    Can you tell us or tell the people of New York 

21    what those issues are, the reason that we're not 

22    resolving a budget timely here?

23                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   No.  I actually 

24    would have to defer to the two leaders of the two 

25    houses and the Governor to give you that answer.  


                                                               2240

 1    It's a little bit above my pay grade.

 2                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, 

 3    you understate your value.  

 4                 (Laughter.) 

 5                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Or my pay, one or 

 6    the other. 

 7                 (Laughter.)

 8                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Well, one or the 

 9    other.

10                 Mr. President, if the Senator will 

11    continue to yield.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

13    sponsor yield? 

14                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

16    sponsor yields.

17                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Senator Krueger, 

18    you know, there's -- certainly this time of year 

19    there's a lot of rumor, a lot of speculation 

20    around the halls of the Capitol, and certainly 

21    the media's interest in getting every tidbit they 

22    can.  

23                 But my understanding is that there 

24    has been sort of a three-way deal between the 

25    leaders on bail, which has been one of the 


                                                               2241

 1    primary sticking points that we've heard 

 2    throughout this process.  Can you tell us what 

 3    that three-way agreement is at this point?

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I sincerely don't 

 5    have the details.  So no, I cannot, 

 6    Mr. President.

 7                 SENATOR O'MARA:   Thank you, 

 8    Senator Krueger.

 9                 Mr. President, if the -- that's all 

10    I have, Mr. President.  

11                 Thank you.

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

14    you, Senator.

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Mr. President, 

16    before we continue, can I just remind my 

17    colleagues that apparently if we don't get this 

18    bill passed by noon, there's an impact on workers 

19    getting paid their next paycheck.

20                 Thank you.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

22    12-minute warning.

23                 Thank you, Senator Krueger.

24                 Senator Rhoads, why do you rise?

25                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Mr. President, if 


                                                               2242

 1    the sponsor will yield to a couple of questions.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 3    sponsor yield?

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 6    sponsor yields.

 7                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

 8    Senator Krueger.  

 9                 It's my understanding that the 

10    340B payments are actually payments that are 

11    received from the federal government and that the 

12    state is a pass-through, is that correct?

13                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, that is 

14    correct.

15                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Okay.  And will 

16    the sponsor continue to yield.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

18    sponsor yield?

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

21    sponsor yields.

22                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And what we've 

23    done now with respect to the legislation that was 

24    passed two years ago, it's my understanding that 

25    we've decided to, instead of pass that money 


                                                               2243

 1    through to its ultimate destination, to the FQHCs 

 2    and to other organizations, that when it comes to 

 3    prescription drugs, we're taking a portion of 

 4    that and we are actually giving money -- we're 

 5    taking over the program and giving a portion of 

 6    the proceeds that these organizations would 

 7    normally have, giving a portion of it back to 

 8    them.  Is that correct?

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   That is my 

10    understanding of continued negotiations.  But 

11    there is nothing completely resolved.  

12                 So it is true that we -- when we 

13    passed the law two years ago, we were changing 

14    what the 340B funds would be used for 

15    specifically, and actually that change in law put 

16    New York State much more in the -- in consistency 

17    with most other states and how they are spending 

18    the 340B money.

19                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you, 

20    Senator.

21                 Will the sponsor continue to yield?

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

23    sponsor yield?

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 


                                                               2244

 1    sponsor yields.

 2                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Do we know, in 

 3    total, how much money the state receives from the 

 4    federal government in 340B?

 5                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   We can get you 

 6    that answer.  Unfortunately, we don't have it 

 7    right this second.

 8                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 

 9    continue to yield?  

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

11    sponsor yield?  

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

14    sponsor yields.

15                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the Senator 

16    agree that it is significantly more than the 

17    $250 million that's in the budget that's supposed 

18    to go back to FQHCs and safety net hospitals?

19                 (Pause.)

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So, I'm sorry, 

21    we're not really getting a great answer for you 

22    with the three of us right now.

23                 Our understanding is that the money 

24    would continue to come in from the federal 

25    government but would be differently used than it 


                                                               2245

 1    has been used up until now, and so some of it 

 2    would be reinvestment in the programs that 

 3    currently receive it, and some of it would be 

 4    going to the higher rate in reimbursement for the 

 5    pharmacies, who have been pointing out that they 

 6    get so little for handling the drugs for this 

 7    population that they're actually in a crisis 

 8    situation.

 9                 But my understanding -- again, 

10    without knowing what the three-way decision will 

11    ever be at the end -- is that these funds will 

12    continue to be sent to us from the federal 

13    government in approximately the same amount we've 

14    been getting them, and be used for healthcare for 

15    these related populations, but in some variation 

16    from how they've been spent before.

17                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Thank you.  

18                 Will the sponsor continue to yield?

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

20    sponsor yield?

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

23    sponsor yields.

24                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Senator, the money 

25    that's in the extender, the $9 million that's 


                                                               2246

 1    going specifically to drug assistance programs, 

 2    including payments to the Ryan White Centers -- 

 3    so are these dollars that those centers would 

 4    have ordinarily received directly from the state, 

 5    through the federal government, but for the 

 6    passage of our 340B amendments two years ago?

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   That is correct, 

 8    yes.

 9                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And the 

10    $250 million --

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Are you 

12    asking the sponsor to yield?

13                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 

14    continue to yield.

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

16    sponsor yield?

17                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Of course.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

19    sponsor yields.

20                 SENATOR RHOADS:   The $250 million 

21    that was in the Governor's proposed budget, that 

22    is money that would be going to these FQHCs in 

23    lieu of the payments that they would have 

24    received from the state as a pass-through from 

25    the federal government had this bill not been 


                                                               2247

 1    passed two years ago?  

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I think that 

 3    is correct.  I had to think through how you were 

 4    phrasing that.

 5                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the Senator 

 6    continue to yield.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield?

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   The $9 million, 

13    does that include any funding for safety net 

14    hospitals?

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   We don't think 

16    so.  

17                 Although I'm not saying that I know 

18    specifically whether there's any Ryan White 

19    programs that may also be affiliated with any 

20    safety net hospitals.  Because in some places a 

21    hospital operates specific kinds of clinics on 

22    their facilities or in association with them.  So 

23    in fairness, I don't know if -- because I don't 

24    have the list with me -- whether there are any 

25    programs attached to, so to speak -- 


                                                               2248

 1                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the 

 2    sponsor --

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   -- safety net 

 4    hospitals.

 5                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 

 6    continue to yield.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Will the 

 8    sponsor yield?

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

10                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

11    sponsor yields.

12                 SENATOR RHOADS:   So is it the 

13    sponsor's understanding that the only money that 

14    goes for AIDS drug assistance programs for 

15    Ryan White Centers that are in safety net 

16    hospitals would be the only funding that's going 

17    to safety net hospitals related to this 

18    $9 million extender? 

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   For one week, 

20    yes.

21                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Would the sponsor 

22    continue to yield.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Does the 

24    sponsor yield?

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.


                                                               2249

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

 2    sponsor yields.

 3                 SENATOR RHOADS:   What about the 

 4    other money that's supposed to go to safety net 

 5    hospitals?  Why was that not included in this 

 6    extender?

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   There's a number 

 8    of different programs being negotiated that 

 9    involve money for safety net hospitals.  I'm 

10    assuming you mean specifically the 340B --

11                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Yes.

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   -- that was going 

13    to safety net hospitals up until now.

14                 SENATOR RHOADS:   Yes.

15                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Okay.  So yes, we 

16    don't know what the final outcome of the 

17    negotiations with the Governor will be.  Hence, I 

18    don't know what amount of money from 340B, or 

19    equivalent purposes, will be available to safety 

20    net.

21                 If you're asking me as a human 

22    being, I would prefer that they were all 

23    continuing to get everything they needed.  But do 

24    I know the outcome of the negotiations in our 

25    final budget bills?  No, I do not.


                                                               2250

 1                 SENATOR RHOADS:   And would the 

 2    sponsor continue to yield to what may be one 

 3    final question.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Would the 

 5    sponsor yield?

 6                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'll give him one 

 7    more, because they only have five minutes for 

 8    everyone else.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The 

10    sponsor yields for one more.

11                 SENATOR RHOADS:   We can certainly 

12    agree, I'm sure, that safety net hospitals are 

13    incredibly important, because they are called 

14    safety net hospitals because they provide 

15    critical services, independent of traditional 

16    funding sources that hospitals would have, to 

17    provide services to our indigent population that 

18    are in need of health services.  They can't turn 

19    them away.

20                 In your view, Senator, should the 

21    Governor be including these safety net hospitals 

22    as part of these extender bills because they have 

23    payroll to make too?

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   No one gives me 

25    that option to write the extender bills.


                                                               2251

 1                 So in my opinion, safety net 

 2    hospitals are a crucial resource for the state 

 3    throughout the state.  And as you point out, my 

 4    colleague, this is specifically for low-income 

 5    people with severe chronic illness, so that 

 6    should absolutely be a priority for all of us 

 7    when we are making investments.

 8                 But I don't know what the final 

 9    outcome will be.  So I think we can all perhaps 

10    continue to lobby in that direction.  I know if 

11    you look at our one-house bill, we were very 

12    clear that we thought that that should be -- that 

13    safety net hospitals should be included in 

14    continuation of these funds, and also put 

15    additional funds in for the safety net and 

16    distressed and public hospitals specifically.  

17                 And again, I don't know what's 

18    happening with that budget negotiation either.

19                 SENATOR RHOADS:   I thank the 

20    Senator, and you, Mr. President, for your 

21    indulgence.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Thank 

23    you, Senator.

24                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

25    to be heard?  


                                                               2252

 1                 Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

 2    closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

 3                 Read the last section.

 4                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 16.  This 

 5    act shall take effect immediately.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Call the 

 7    roll.

 8                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   Announce 

10    the results.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 57.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   The bill 

13    is passed.

14                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

15    reading of the controversial calendar.

16                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there any 

17    further business at the desk?

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   There is 

19    no further business at the desk.

20                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   For my 

21    colleagues in the Majority, there will be an 

22    immediate meeting of the Democratic Conference 

23    upon adjournment.  

24                 And with that, I move to adjourn 

25    until the call of the Temporary President of the 


                                                               2253

 1    Senate, with the intervening days being 

 2    legislative days.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT COONEY:   There 

 4    will be an immediate meeting of the Democratic 

 5    Conference following the close of session.

 6                 On motion, the Senate stands 

 7    adjourned until the call of the 

 8    Temporary President of the Senate, with the 

 9    intervening days being legislative days.

10                 (Whereupon, at 11:57 a.m., the 

11    Senate adjourned.)

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