Regular Session - April 24, 2023

                                                                   2467

 1                NEW YORK STATE SENATE

 2                          

 3                          

 4               THE STENOGRAPHIC RECORD

 5                          

 6                          

 7                          

 8                          

 9                  ALBANY, NEW YORK

10                   April 24, 2023

11                     11:15 a.m.

12                          

13                          

14                   REGULAR SESSION

15  

16  

17  

18  SENATOR SHELLEY B. MAYER, Acting President

19  ALEJANDRA N. PAULINO, ESQ., Secretary

20  

21  

22  

23  

24  

25  


                                                               2468

 1                P R O C E E D I N G S

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

 3    will come to order. 

 4                 I ask everyone present to please 

 5    rise and recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

 6                 (Whereupon, the assemblage recited 

 7    the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.)

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Head 

 9    Priest Giani Dharamveer Singh, of the 

10    Sikh Cultural Society of South Richmond Hill, 

11    New York, will deliver today's invocation.  

12                 (Whereupon, Head Priest Giani 

13    Dharamveer Singh recited in Punjabi the 

14    Prayer Ardas, translated as follows:

15                 "Unto The One Supreme God Who by the 

16    grace of Sat guru (GOD) is realized.  Remember, 

17    first, God the Almighty.  Think then of 

18    Guru Nanak: of Angad Guru and Amar Das, and 

19    Ram Das.  May their protection be ever with us!  

20    Remember Arjan, Hargobind, and the holy Har Rai.  

21    Let us think of the holy Har Krishan whose sight 

22    annuls all sorrow.  Let us remember Tegh Bahadur, 

23    and all the nine treasures will come flowing in.  

24    May he protect us everywhere!  May the Tenth 

25    Guru, the holy Guru Gobind Singh, protector of 


                                                               2469

 1    faith, help us everywhere! 

 2                 "Turn your thoughts, 0 Khalsa, to 

 3    the Guru Granth Sahib, the visible body of the 

 4    Gurus, and their word, and say, Waheguru, glory 

 5    be to God!  The five Loved Ones, the Guru's four 

 6    sons, the Forty saved and other holy and heroic 

 7    men, saints and martyrs:  Remember their selfless 

 8    and heroic deeds, and say, Waheguru, glory be to 

 9    God!

10                 "O Waheguru, please give the 

11    strength, the wisdom and ability to the elected 

12    Senators to do the right and deliver for what 

13    they are elected for. 

14                 "We, the Sikhs, thank you all for 

15    the passing of this Resolution, which will not 

16    only create a history but also bring the 

17    awareness of their religion and articles of 

18    faith.  May the Almighty help you to help fellow 

19    humans irrespective of their faith, color or 

20    creed.

21                 "Once again, thanks to you all, the 

22    Senators and the Governor, for providing this 

23    opportunity to the Sikh community of the 

24    great State of New York.")

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Reading of 


                                                               2470

 1    the Journal.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   In Senate, 

 3    Saturday, April 22, 2023, the Senate met pursuant 

 4    to adjournment.  The Journal of Friday, April 21, 

 5    2023, was read and approved.  On motion, the 

 6    Senate adjourned.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Without 

 8    objection, the Journal stands approved as read.

 9                 Presentation of petitions.

10                 Messages from the Assembly.

11                 Messages from the Governor.

12                 Reports of standing committees.  

13                 Reports of select committees.

14                 Communications and reports from 

15    state officers.

16                 Motions and resolutions.

17                 Senator Gianaris.

18                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Good morning, 

19    Madam President.  

20                 I wish to call up the following 

21    bills, which were recalled from the Assembly and 

22    are now at the desk:  Senate Bill 608A and 

23    Senate Bill 636.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

25    Secretary will read.


                                                               2471

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 77, 

 2    Senate Print 608A, by Senator Salazar, an act to 

 3    amend the General Business Law.  

 4                 Calendar Number 174, Senate Print 

 5    636, by Senator Comrie, an act to amend the 

 6    Business Corporation Law and the Limited 

 7    Liability Company Law.

 8                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to 

 9    reconsider the vote by which these bills were 

10    passed.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

12    roll.

13                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bills 

15    are restored to their place on the Third Reading 

16    Calendar.

17                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   I offer the 

18    following amendments.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20    amendments are received, and the bills will 

21    retain their place on the Third Reading Calendar.

22                 Senator Gianaris.

23                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

24    just to give my colleagues a sense of the order 

25    for the day, we're going to take up a resolution 


                                                               2472

 1    shortly and then break for a Rules Committee 

 2    meeting, which will produce the budget extender 

 3    bill, which we will take up.  

 4                 At that point we will break for 

 5    party conferences and come back and take up the 

 6    remaining bill off the supplemental calendar.  

 7                 So let's begin by taking up 

 8    previously adopted Resolution 751, by 

 9    Senator Scarcella-Spanton, read its title, and 

10    recognize Senator Scarcella-Spanton.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

12    Secretary will read.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   Senate Resolution 

14    751, by Senator Scarcella-Spanton, memorializing 

15    Governor Kathy Hochul to proclaim April 2023 as 

16    the Month of the Military Child in the State of 

17    New York.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

19    Scarcella-Spanton on the resolution.

20                 SENATOR SCARCELLA-SPANTON:   Thank 

21    you, Madam President.

22                 Our military families and their 

23    children make countless sacrifices to serve our 

24    country and keep us safe, and it is essential 

25    that we take the time to acknowledge and honor 


                                                               2473

 1    their contributions.  

 2                 Military children face unique 

 3    challenges as they navigate frequent moves, 

 4    deployments of their parents, and the stress that 

 5    comes with having a loved one in harm's way.  

 6                 As myself and Senator Ashby's 

 7    children can attest to, military children live a 

 8    life of constant change.  Military families move, 

 9    on average, every two to three years, which 

10    causes military children to constantly change 

11    schools, make new friends, and adapt to new 

12    support networks.  

13                 In my family's case, my husband 

14    deployed to Afghanistan for the second time when 

15    our daughter was just 10 days old.  

16                 Despite these challenges, military 

17    children demonstrate remarkable resilience and 

18    strength.  Moving forward, throughout the month 

19    of April we celebrate military children and 

20    express our gratitude for their courage, strength 

21    and sacrifice.

22                 Thank you.  

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

24    Senator.

25                 Senator Ashby on the resolution.


                                                               2474

 1                 SENATOR ASHBY:   Thank you, 

 2    Madam President.  

 3                 I want to thank Chairwoman 

 4    Scarcella-Spanton and my colleagues for bringing 

 5    this resolution to the floor.  

 6                 And, like her and so many families 

 7    out there, the children of military families 

 8    endure tremendous sacrifice and are often born 

 9    into it.  Like her family, my daughter Ellie was 

10    six months old during my first deployment -- or 

11    my second deployment.  My son, who thought it 

12    would be better to go on a field trip today 

13    rather than come to the chamber -- 

14                 (Laughter.)

15                 SENATOR ASHBY:   -- he was just a 

16    few weeks old during my first deployment.  

17                 Which oftentimes we talk about the 

18    sacrifices of those who served and we forget or 

19    sometimes overlook the sacrifices of the 

20    families.  And it's important to remember that.  

21    Although our hardships, though we endured, are 

22    pale in comparison to those children whose family 

23    members -- whose parents, whose brothers, whose 

24    sisters -- did not come back, were unable to come 

25    back.  And oftentimes, when they do come back, 


                                                               2475

 1    struggle.  

 2                 And it's important for us to 

 3    remember and recognize the struggles of those 

 4    families and to do our utmost in this chamber to 

 5    help them.

 6                 So again, I want to thank my 

 7    colleague for all she does as the chairwoman of 

 8    the Veterans Committee, and thank my colleagues.  

 9                 And thank you, Madam President.  I 

10    proudly vote aye.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

12    Senator.

13                 The resolution was previously 

14    adopted on April 18th.  

15                 Senator Gianaris.

16                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

17    Senator Scarcella-Spanton would like to open this 

18    resolution for cosponsorship.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20    resolution is open for cosponsorship.  Should you 

21    choose not to be a cosponsor on the resolution, 

22    please notify the desk.

23                 Senator Gianaris.

24                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   There will be an 

25    immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in 


                                                               2476

 1    Room 332.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There will 

 3    be an immediate meeting of the Rules Committee in 

 4    Room 332.

 5                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   The Senate 

 6    stands at ease.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

 8    stands at ease.

 9                 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

10    at 11:25 a.m.)

11                 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

12    11:32 a.m.)

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

14    will return to order.

15                 Senator Gianaris.  

16                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Madam President, 

17    back to motions and resolutions.  

18                 We're going to now take up 

19    previously adopted Resolution 633, by 

20    Senator Thomas, read its title, and recognize 

21    Senator Thomas.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

23    Secretary will read.

24                 THE SECRETARY:   Senate Resolution 

25    633, by Senator Thomas, memorializing 


                                                               2477

 1    Governor Kathy Hochul to proclaim April 2023 as 

 2    Sikh Awareness Month in the State of New York.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 4    Thomas on the resolution.

 5                 SENATOR THOMAS:   Thank you, 

 6    Madam President.  

 7                 Sat Sri Akal.

 8                 (Response from gallery.)

 9                 SENATOR THOMAS:   Thank you to 

10    Giani Dharamveer Singh from the Richmond Hill 

11    Gudwara in Queens for that prayer -- 

12    Senator Addabbo's district.  

13                 Once again, today I want to 

14    highlight how blessed we are in this great state 

15    with our diversity.  

16                 April is Sikh Heritage and Awareness 

17    Month, and this month was chosen because Sikhs 

18    celebrate Vaisakhi, which is the Birth of the 

19    Khalsa.  

20                 It is a religion founded more than 

21    500 years ago by Guru Nanak, who taught that all 

22    paths lead to one God, all people are equal, and 

23    we should serve our community without asking for 

24    anything in return.  

25                 Through today's resolution I want to 


                                                               2478

 1    recognize the many contributions that 

 2    Sikh Americans have made to our nation, and to 

 3    reflect on the pluralism that is a hallmark of 

 4    America.  

 5                 Sikhs have a long and rich history 

 6    here in the United States.  As early as the 

 7    1800s, Sikh men and women have been making 

 8    notable contributions to American society.  Early 

 9    settlers played a major role in building 

10    America's railroads.  Sikh Americans served in 

11    the U.S. military during the world wars.  And the 

12    first Asian-American Congressman was a Sikh 

13    American elected to office in 1957.

14                 Sikhism's principles of equality, 

15    service, interfaith cooperation and respect are 

16    principles shared by all Americans.  Their faith 

17    centers on equality of all humankind and the need 

18    for compassion in our service to others -- like 

19    what we do in this chamber.

20                 This month provides an opportunity 

21    for all of us to recognize the invaluable 

22    contributions of the Sikh community to our state 

23    and our nation.  The Sikh community in New York 

24    is an integral part of our diverse population.  

25    They have contributed greatly to our state.  


                                                               2479

 1                 Sikh Americans continue to be 

 2    recognized for their outstanding contributions in 

 3    various fields, including medicine, law, 

 4    business, the military, media and more.  

 5                 That's why I am excited to welcome 

 6    some special guests today:  Mr. Harpreet Singh 

 7    Toor, Mr. Jatinder Singh Boparai, Mr. Bhupinder 

 8    Singh Boparai, Mr. Buta Singh, and Mrs. Rajwinder 

 9    Kaur.  Thank you for joining us.  

10                 However, a sad reality is that Sikhs 

11    have also faced discrimination and hate crimes in 

12    our country.  It is important to stand in 

13    solidarity with our Sikh brothers and sisters, 

14    denounce hate and bigotry, and work towards a 

15    more inclusive society.  

16                 As we celebrate Sikh Awareness 

17    Month, let us take the time to learn about the 

18    Sikh religion, its values, and its contributions 

19    to our society.

20                 Madam President, please recognize my 

21    guests in the gallery who have come from all over 

22    New York State today to grace us with their 

23    presence this morning.

24                 Thank you so much.

25                 (Response from the gallery.)


                                                               2480

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

 2    Senator Thomas.

 3                 Senator Addabbo on the resolution.

 4                 SENATOR ADDABBO:   Thank you very 

 5    much, Madam President.  

 6                 Good afternoon, everybody.

 7                 I want to thank Senator Thomas for 

 8    the resolution.  Thank you very much.  

 9                 And for my friends who have visited 

10    Albany, thank you so much for being here.  

11                 The Sikh Cultural Society, thank you 

12    very much.  And obviously Dharamveer Singh, thank 

13    you very much for being here all the way from 

14    Richmond Hill.

15                 You know, the Census doesn't account 

16    for religion when they do their census.  But the 

17    American Community Survey, they account for 

18    religion throughout our state.  And in our state 

19    there's roughly 27,000 Sikhs living in New York 

20    State, 10,000 of which are in my district in 

21    Richmond Hill.  And we do appreciate their 

22    contributions to the community and being a part 

23    of our community and community members.

24                 The Sikh religion advocates for 

25    equality, social justice, service to the 


                                                               2481

 1    community, and tolerance for other religions, 

 2    which is very important in such a diverse state 

 3    like ours and in the Borough of Queens, the most 

 4    diverse borough in the world.  

 5                 But also the message of the Sikh 

 6    religion is freedom of religion, reverence to 

 7    God, and towards practicing the ideals of 

 8    honesty, compassion, humility and generosity.  

 9    Honesty, compassion, humility and generosity.

10                 No matter what our background is, if 

11    we applied those principles to our lives, we 

12    would be a far better society and even a better 

13    government.

14                 Thank you very much, 

15    Madam President.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

17    Senator Addabbo.

18                 Senator Comrie on the resolution.

19                 SENATOR COMRIE:   Thank you, 

20    Madam President.  

21                 I want to thank Senator Addabbo and 

22    Senator Thomas for bringing this resolution 

23    today.  

24                 The Sikh community is very prominent 

25    in Queens.  I've been honored to work with them 


                                                               2482

 1    over the years, for many years.  

 2                 The Sikh Cultural Society has not 

 3    only been active in making sure that they inform 

 4    the entire community of their history and 

 5    religion, but they're also involved in community 

 6    and civic activities, having been very involved 

 7    in the pandemic and making sure that people were 

 8    taken care of, making sure that people were fed 

 9    and making sure that people had opportunity for 

10    medical services.

11                 I'm proud to have a small section of 

12    the Sikh community in my new district.  I had a 

13    larger section in my old district, but I will 

14    continue to work with all parts of the 

15    Sikh community, because it's important that we 

16    allow folks to be able to express themselves, 

17    that we can do tolerance for each other, make 

18    sure that all communities in Queens and 

19    throughout New York State get to understand and 

20    appreciate each other.  

21                 Thank you, Madam President, for 

22    allowing this resolution to come forward.  

23                 (Response from the gallery.)

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

25    Senator Comrie.  


                                                               2483

 1                 Senator Stavisky on the resolution.

 2                 SENATOR STAVISKY:   Thank you to the 

 3    Senators for recognizing the Sikh community.  

 4                 And notice that we're from Queens -- 

 5    Senator Addabbo and Senator Comrie and I have in 

 6    common the Sikh community, and we thank them and 

 7    honor them today.

 8                 Thank you, Madam President.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

10    Senator Stavisky.

11                 Senator Kennedy on the resolution.

12                 SENATOR KENNEDY:   Thank you, 

13    Madam President.

14                 I too want to recognize the Sikh 

15    leadership for being here today, our friends from 

16    the Sikh community; our colleagues for bringing 

17    this to the floor, from Senator Thomas from 

18    Long Island, Senator Addabbo from Queens.  You 

19    heard from Senator Comrie and Senator Stavisky, 

20    both from Queens.

21                 But out in Buffalo and Western 

22    New York we also have a thriving Sikh community.  

23    I'm proud to represent that Sikh community in my 

24    district.  The one thing I've learned over many 

25    years is the Sikh leadership and the 


                                                               2484

 1    Sikh community represents a community of peace.  

 2                 And these are leaders throughout our 

 3    community in Western New York, and clearly across 

 4    the state and the nation, that are leading both 

 5    in the community and in business, and in helping 

 6    other people thrive.

 7                 And so it's with great honor that I 

 8    welcome you here too to the chamber today, and 

 9    it's with great pride that I represent the 

10    Sikh community in Western New York.

11                 Thank you.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

13    Senator Kennedy.

14                 To our guests, I welcome you on 

15    behalf of the Senate.  We extend to you the 

16    privileges and courtesies of the house.  

17                 Please rise and be recognized.

18                 (Standing ovation.)

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

20    resolution was previously adopted on April 10th.

21                 Senator Gianaris.

22                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Senator Thomas 

23    would like to open that resolution for 

24    cosponsorship.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 


                                                               2485

 1    resolution is open for cosponsorship.  Should you 

 2    choose not to be a cosponsor, please notify the 

 3    desk.

 4                 Senator Gianaris.

 5                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   There's a report 

 6    of the Rules Committee at the desk.  

 7                 Can we take that up, please.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9    Secretary will read.

10                 THE SECRETARY:   Senator 

11    Stewart-Cousins, from the Committee on Rules, 

12    reports the following bills:  

13                 Senate Print 5889, by 

14    Senator Breslin, an act to amend the 

15    Insurance Law; 

16                 Senate Print 6454, Independent 

17    Redistricting Commission, an act to amend the 

18    State Law;

19                 Senate Print 6480, by 

20    Senator Krueger, an act making appropriations for 

21    the support of government.

22                 All bills reported direct to third 

23    reading.

24                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

25    the report of the Rules Committee.


                                                               2486

 1                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   All those 

 2    in favor of accepting the report of the Rules 

 3    Committee signify by saying aye.

 4                 (Response of "Aye.")

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed?  

 6                 (No response.)

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The report 

 8    of Rules Committee is accepted.

 9                 Senator Gianaris.

10                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Please take up 

11    the supplemental calendar.

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

13    Secretary will read.

14                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

15    627, Senate Print 6454, Independent Redistricting 

16    Commission, an act to amend the State Law.

17                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Lay aside that 

18    bill temporarily, please.  

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

20    is temporarily laid aside.

21                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

22    628, Senate Print 6480, by Senator Krueger, an 

23    act making appropriations for the support of 

24    government.

25                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there a 


                                                               2487

 1    message of necessity and appropriation at the 

 2    desk?

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There is a 

 4    message of necessity and appropriation at the 

 5    desk.

 6                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Move to accept 

 7    the message.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   All those 

 9    in favor of accepting the message please signify 

10    by saying aye.

11                 (Response of "Aye.")

12                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Opposed?  

13                 (Response of "Nay.")

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

15    message is accepted, and the bill is before the 

16    house.

17                 SENATOR LANZA:   Lay it aside.

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

19    is laid aside.

20                 That completes the reading of the 

21    calendar, Senator Gianaris.  

22                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Can we now go to 

23    the controversial calendar, please.  

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

25    Secretary will ring the bell.


                                                               2488

 1                 The Secretary will read.

 2                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 3    628, Senate Print 6480, by Senator Krueger, an 

 4    act making appropriations for the support of 

 5    government.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 7    Borrello, why do you rise?

 8                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Why do I rise?  

 9    Well, it's not to make another Groundhogs Day 

10    joke, I can promise you that.  

11                 (Laughter.)

12                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Will the sponsor 

13    yield for a question.

14                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

15    Krueger, do you yield?

16                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes, I will.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

18    Senator yields.

19                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

20    Through you, Madam President.  

21                 So here we are, I believe this is 

22    our fifth budget extender today, if I'm counting 

23    correctly, five.  

24                 What's the value of today's 

25    extender?  


                                                               2489

 1                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Today's extender 

 2    is worth $4.8 billion and lasts through Friday.

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

 4    will the sponsor continue to yield.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Do you 

 6    continue to yield?  

 7                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 9    Senator yields.

10                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So almost 

11    $5 billion for four days.  This should be an 

12    identifier to the people of New York State of 

13    exactly what it costs or what our government 

14    spends each and every day here in New York State.

15                 So for the -- the question is, is 

16    this a straight policy -- or is this a straight 

17    extender?  Is there any policy in the budget 

18    today?  

19                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   It's a straight 

20    extender.  I don't believe there's any policy 

21    per se.  

22                 There is some new money that we 

23    haven't seen in previous weeks, I think for the 

24    EPIC program, which is the Elderly Pharmaceutical 

25    IC -- Insurance Coverage.  I knew I knew that.  


                                                               2490

 1    Thank you.  So there's approximately $7.8 million 

 2    in this for the money needed for EPIC.

 3                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Thank you.  

 4                 Madam President, will the sponsor 

 5    continue to yield.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Do you 

 7    continue to yield?  

 8                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

10    Krueger yields.

11                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So this extender  

12    will take us through Friday, April 28th.  So do 

13    we expect to see some budget bills, perhaps even 

14    tonight, so that they have time to age and we can 

15    vote on them before Friday?  

16                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm pretty 

17    optimistic we will see budget bills.  I don't 

18    believe we will see any by tonight.

19                 You are right about the normal aging 

20    process of three days.  But as you might have 

21    noticed, we seem to do budget bills using 

22    messages of necessity, which are not an ideal 

23    scenario but perhaps are better than continuing 

24    extenders.

25                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 


                                                               2491

 1    will the sponsor continue to yield.

 2                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Do you 

 3    continue to yield?  

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 6    Krueger yields.

 7                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So it sounds 

 8    like things are somewhat improving, we'll say, in 

 9    the budget negotiation logjam.  

10                 What's the status of the 

11    negotiations right now?

12                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So the three 

13    leaders have been continuing to meet, and the 

14    secretaries have been continuing to meet.  And 

15    everybody I think feels that we are making 

16    progress.  

17                 Some policy issues that the Governor 

18    put in her original budget are what I guess -- I 

19    don't know if this is the official term, but 

20    people seem to be using it, falling off the 

21    table.  And appropriations are continuing forward 

22    pretty effectively.  

23                 So I think there are still a handful 

24    of some big-picture policy issues that need to be 

25    addressed.  But again, I'm always 


                                                               2492

 1    glass-half-full, Madam President.  But I feel 

 2    like we could actually get this done before we go 

 3    home again.

 4                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

 5    will the sponsor continue to yield.

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Do you 

 7    continue to yield?  

 8                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

 9                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

10    Senator yields.

11                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Well, I'm glad 

12    to hear you're glass-half-full.  And we all, I 

13    think, are hopeful.  

14                 But, you know, I've heard your 

15    folks -- the folks on your side of the aisle say 

16    that we'd rather have, you know -- rather than a 

17    bad budget, we'd rather have a good budget, so it 

18    doesn't necessarily have to be on time.  

19                 But really, you know, what do you 

20    anticipate that's going to be in this budget 

21    that's going to be so much better that it 

22    couldn't have been negotiated and done on time?  

23    What's -- what's better that we are now so late, 

24    historically late, for this budget?

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I'm not sure 


                                                               2493

 1    we are historically late, Madam President, 

 2    because I've been here in August and done budgets 

 3    in August.  So I don't think we're anywhere near 

 4    historical lateness.  And I don't wish for us to 

 5    ever do that again, thank you.

 6                 And it is interesting, because 

 7    people do say they would rather have a good 

 8    budget than an on-time budget, and it's an 

 9    interesting question.  I'd say it's in the eye of 

10    the beholder, because you and I each might have 

11    very different definitions of what's a good 

12    budget and what makes a budget better or not 

13    better than the original Executive proposal.  So 

14    I think that's a much longer discussion.  

15                 I will highlight that I think the 

16    importance to the people of New York of our doing 

17    these extenders are that government is continuing 

18    to function.  We are paying the workers.  We are 

19    continuing to make -- pay our debts.  We are 

20    paying the bills.  Government has not ceased to 

21    function because we are late in the budget.

22                 Now, interestingly, this year -- and 

23    people seem to have forgotten pretty quickly, 

24    because the Governor is allowed to submit her 

25    budget two weeks later the first year after an 


                                                               2494

 1    election -- she did submit it two years -- two 

 2    years? -- two weeks later.  So technically we're 

 3    not as far behind as we think, because we had two 

 4    weeks less before April 1st to negotiate and get 

 5    done.  

 6                 So I actually think those first two 

 7    weeks of being late were sort of putting us back 

 8    on a normal schedule, bizarrely.  But now we are 

 9    a couple of weeks late.  

10                 But again, for the people who may be 

11    out there listening and watching and making sure 

12    that government is continuing to function, it 

13    absolutely is as long as we get this extender 

14    passed before noon today.

15                 So I don't wish to continue 

16    extenders.  I can guarantee you the staff do not 

17    wish to continue extenders.  But it is far, far 

18    better to have the extender option and continue 

19    to complete our negotiations and get to budget 

20    bills we are confident in, because we are not 

21    doing harm to the functioning of the State of 

22    New York on behalf of all of our constituents.

23                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

24    will the sponsor continue to yield.

25                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Do you 


                                                               2495

 1    continue to yield?  

 2                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I do.

 3                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

 4    Senator yields.

 5                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   So 

 6    notwithstanding the two-week mulligan that you've 

 7    given yourself in this, I think we are certainly 

 8    frustrated.  Because although we are continuing 

 9    to limp along, and our operations are running, I 

10    hear from folks every day that want to know 

11    what's going on because so much of their budget, 

12    so much depends on what happens here and this 

13    budget being passed.

14                 So with that being said, you know, 

15    budgets are about budgets, they're about money, 

16    they're about what we're going to expend, what 

17    the revenues are.  It's clear that it's policy 

18    that's holding up this budget and not the 

19    finances of New York State.  

20                 So with that being said, why are we 

21    discussing policy in the budget?

22                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I like the 

23    question.  Thank you very much, Madam President.  

24                 Some people think we shouldn't do 

25    any policy in a budget.  And some states have 


                                                               2496

 1    far, far less policy built into their budget 

 2    documents.  I would probably vote for less policy 

 3    in our budgets, although it's impossible not to 

 4    have some because when you're appropriating money 

 5    for programs, you're often creating programs at 

 6    the same time, or redesigning them.  

 7                 So I think it would be impossible to 

 8    remove policy from our budgets, but I actually 

 9    would agree with my colleague that perhaps 

10    there's just too much policy going into our 

11    budget document and we could be working on those 

12    as freestanding bills and changing statutes.

13                 Ironically, being so tied up in the 

14    budget being late, we have less time to be 

15    working on those statutes that I think all of us 

16    would like to see moved.  

17                 So yes, if I was writing the 

18    Executive Budget, if I was queen for a day -- 

19    which I am not -- maybe I wouldn't have as much 

20    policy proposals in it as we have been given.  

21    But under our rules, or more like under a court 

22    case decision -- that's Pataki v. Silver, which 

23    gave the Governor such a disproportionate amount 

24    of the powers and authority when it comes to what 

25    goes into a budget, what comes out, and what else 


                                                               2497

 1    can go in -- this is the hand we have been dealt.

 2                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   Madam President, 

 3    on the bill.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

 5    Borrello on the bill.

 6                 SENATOR BORRELLO:   I want to thank 

 7    Senator Krueger again for those thoughtful 

 8    responses.  And I think we all appreciate the 

 9    fact that we are now on our fifth extender and 

10    the holdup indeed is policy.  

11                 And I appreciate the fact that you 

12    agree we shouldn't have as much policy.  I think 

13    that that's really the holdup here.

14                 And, you know, that's part of the 

15    problem of why most people don't feel that their 

16    government represents them in a transparent way, 

17    because we try to hide all this policy in the 

18    budget.  It's actually difficult for our staff to 

19    try and find that needle in the haystack.  When 

20    we talk about, for example, bail reform, and it 

21    ends up in a part of the budget that has 

22    absolutely nothing to do with criminal justice.  

23                 You know, that's the kind of shell 

24    game that is played here in Albany.  And quite 

25    frankly, you know, that's somewhat unique for 


                                                               2498

 1    New York State in a lot of ways.  But it is the 

 2    reason why people lack faith.  

 3                 And the people who depend on us the 

 4    most to get this budget done, the people that 

 5    deal with our most vulnerable citizens -- people 

 6    with disabilities, senior citizens -- all those 

 7    folks are waiting every day.  And although a lot 

 8    of our constituents don't know that the budget is 

 9    late, the people that we need to supply critical 

10    funding and resources for, they do.  

11                 And I urge everyone to move as 

12    quickly as possible to finalize this so that the 

13    people that are dealing with the most vulnerable 

14    citizens in New York State have some assurance 

15    that their government does indeed work.

16                 Thank you, Madam President.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

18    Helming, why do you rise?

19                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you, 

20    Madam President.  If the sponsor will yield for a 

21    question.

22                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

23    Krueger, do you yield?

24                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Certainly.

25                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you, 


                                                               2499

 1    Senator Krueger.  Through you, Madam President.

 2                 Senator Krueger, I heard you make a 

 3    comment to the effect that government continues 

 4    to function as we pass these extenders.  And 

 5    Senator Borrello just raised an excellent point 

 6    that there are many organizations and agencies 

 7    that are out there, and they're struggling, 

 8    waiting.  And the fact that we haven't passed a 

 9    budget, it is impacting them.

10                 I have heard over the last several 

11    days from several childcare providers, 

12    not-for-profit providers who are really 

13    struggling right now.  They depend upon the 

14    stabilization grant funding.  I've heard -- in 

15    conversations with OCFS, I've heard the 

16    stabilization grants referred to as lifelines for 

17    these not-for-profit childcare providers.

18                 Can you tell me if there's any 

19    funding or any resources in the extender that 

20    will help our childcare providers?

21                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   One second.

22                 Thank you.  Sorry, I needed to 

23    double-check something.

24                 Our understanding is stabilization 

25    grants are more like one-time grants, and that 


                                                               2500

 1    the childcare providers can be submitting bills 

 2    for reimbursement on their ongoing costs under 

 3    their contracts.  

 4                 But I don't disagree with you that 

 5    there are many groups out there hoping that they 

 6    will see additional monies in the new fiscal year 

 7    above and beyond what they were being paid under 

 8    their ongoing contracts.  In fact, I think I 

 9    tried to add up sort of the master list of what 

10    everyone was asking for, and I had to sit down 

11    because it was I think about $40 billion of hopes 

12    and dreams that people were submitting to us.  

13    And I'm pretty sure they won't be getting all 

14    that.

15                 But yes, childcare providers are not 

16    getting any kind of new one-shot stabilization 

17    grants yet until we resolve this budget.

18                 SENATOR HELMING:   Thank you.

19                 On the bill, Madam President.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

21    Helming on the bill.

22                 SENATOR HELMING:   So this is very 

23    concerning to me.  As I stated, I had a number of 

24    not-for-profit childcare centers reach out to me.  

25    Some have gone as far as closing down classrooms.  


                                                               2501

 1    I have another one that serves over a hundred 

 2    families, and they've maxed out credit cards to 

 3    try and meet their payroll and their other 

 4    financial obligations.  

 5                 They were waiting for the Round 3 

 6    stabilization grants to be passed.  And of 

 7    course, as we just heard, that's not going to 

 8    happen until the budget is approved.

 9                 There isn't any more money left from 

10    Round 2 funding that the OCFS can pass out to 

11    these childcare providers.  This is a real 

12    concern not only to families and to employers 

13    trying to get people to work, but also to 

14    children who, when their routine is disrupted, it 

15    has a negative impact.  

16                 So I would urge the Majority to do 

17    everything they can, that if we're back here on 

18    Friday with another extender, we have something 

19    in it to help these providers.  Personally, I 

20    hope we're not passing a sixth extender, that 

21    we're actually starting to work on the budget.

22                 Thank you, Madam President.

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

24    Senator Helming.

25                 Are there any other Senators wishing 


                                                               2502

 1    to be heard?

 2                 Senator Stec, why do you rise?

 3                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.  If the 

 4    sponsor would yield for a question, please.  

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   A quick 

 6    question, do you yield?  

 7                 SENATOR STEC:   A quick question.  I 

 8    hope.

 9                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I will answer a 

10    quick question.

11                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you.  Good 

12    morning, Senator Krueger.  

13                 In previous discussion about the 

14    amount of policy that's in the budget with 

15    another colleague of ours, you made reference to 

16    the progress that had been made over the weekend 

17    and that some policy items that were under 

18    discussion have, quote, fallen off the table.  

19                 I was just wondering if you could 

20    enlighten us and the 20 million New Yorkers what 

21    those items might be, since the budget's 24 days 

22    late and everyone's curious to know what's going 

23    on with the budget.  

24                 Thank you.

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   I'm sorry, no, I 


                                                               2503

 1    don't have a master list.  And I think quite a 

 2    few of them have already hit the press.  So I 

 3    would say that the housing package of the 

 4    Governor is one of the items that she has pulled 

 5    back on.  I think there are a number of other 

 6    items that she's already announced she's pulled 

 7    back on.

 8                 And I apologize that there's no 

 9    others that are just jumping to my mind right 

10    now.  But again, I think anything that is known 

11    has also already been shared through the press, 

12    because there are no secrets in this town and 

13    they're pretty good at tracking what's happening.

14                 SENATOR STEC:   Madam President, if 

15    the sponsor would yield for one quick follow-up.

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Will you 

17    yield for a quick question?

18                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   If it's a 

19    follow-up, yes.

20                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

21    Senator yields.

22                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

23    Senator Krueger.  

24                 Can you give us an update on where 

25    we stand at this moment with bail reform, since 


                                                               2504

 1    that was the one that's been most talked about?  

 2    I still think there's a cloud of uncertainty over 

 3    what we're doing on criminal justice.

 4                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   So I do not 

 5    believe that has fallen off the table.  

 6                 I do believe that there are changes 

 7    in criminal justice that will be part of the 

 8    final budget bills.  But it is not necessarily my 

 9    bailiwick, so I do not actually have details I 

10    can share yet.

11                 SENATOR STEC:   Thank you, 

12    Madam President.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

14    Senator Stec.

15                 Senator Tedisco.

16                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Will the sponsor 

17    yield for a question.  

18                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Senator 

19    Krueger, will you yield for a quick question?

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Yes.

21                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   I'm adding 

22    "quick."

23                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Senator 

24    Krueger --

25                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Look at the 


                                                               2505

 1    clock.  Just -- we have the 12 o'clock deadline, 

 2    sorry.  A very quick question.  

 3                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Over the years 

 4    there have been other budgets that have been 

 5    late.  And at that time there were separate 

 6    bodies here who were controlled by your side of 

 7    the aisle, others were controlled by our side of 

 8    the aisle, so that Republicans blame Democrats, 

 9    Democrats blame Republicans.  

10                 But this is kind of different.  Your 

11    party controls all sides of the aisle -- 

12    super-majority here, super-majority in the 

13    Assembly.  You've got the Governor, the same 

14    affiliation for you.

15                 Whose fault is it that we're here 

16    going on four weeks late with the budget this 

17    time?  Because it can't be our affiliation, 

18    because we don't control any part of the system 

19    here.  

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Well, we all ran 

21    for office, and we're all the government.  So I 

22    always look in the mirror every morning and say 

23    now I'm part of the problem.  And I think at a 

24    certain level all of us are.  We do not have a 

25    perfect system of government.  Democracy is a 


                                                               2506

 1    delicate balance -- democracy, small D, not party 

 2    affiliation.  So we have not perfected how we get 

 3    great budgets done on time each year.

 4                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Very quickly, 

 5    Senator Sanders has a -- 

 6                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Excuse me, 

 7    Senator Tedisco.  Senator Tedisco.  

 8                 Senator Tedisco, are you asking 

 9    Senator Krueger to yield?

10                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Yes.

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   I don't 

12    think she was finished.

13                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Last question, 

14    very quickly.  

15                 Senator Sanders has a bill to 

16    penalize the Governor the way we're purportedly 

17    penalized, to delay her salary.  Is that an 

18    indication that you and he and your conference 

19    believe she's responsible?  

20                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Oh, I have not 

21    had a discussion with my conference.  I signed 

22    onto the bill, but I can't speak for anyone else.  

23                 And it is 12 o'clock, 

24    Madam President, so I think I can't answer any 

25    more questions.


                                                               2507

 1                 SENATOR TEDISCO:   Thank you, 

 2    Madam President.

 3                 SENATOR KRUEGER:   Thank you.  

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Thank you, 

 5    Senator Krueger.

 6                 Are there any other Senators wishing 

 7    to be heard?

 8                 Seeing and hearing none, debate is 

 9    closed.  The Secretary will ring the bell.

10                 Read the last section.

11                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 17.  This 

12    act shall take effect immediately.

13                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

14    roll.

15                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

16                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

17    the results.

18                 THE SECRETARY:   Ayes, 57.

19                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

20    is passed.

21                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

22    reading of the controversial calendar.

23                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   At this point 

24    we're going to stand at ease while we have 

25    respective party conferences.  


                                                               2508

 1                 There will be an immediate meeting 

 2    of the Democratic Conference in Room 332.  

 3                 And please recognize Senator Lanza.

 4                 SENATOR LANZA:   Madam President, 

 5    there will be an immediate meeting of the 

 6    Republican Conference in Room 315.

 7                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

 8    stands at ease.  

 9                 There will be respective meetings of 

10    the Senate conferences.

11                 (Whereupon, the Senate stood at ease 

12    at 12:02 p.m.)

13                 (Whereupon, the Senate reconvened at 

14    12:52 p.m.)

15                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

16    will return to order.

17                 Senator Gianaris.

18                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Thank you, 

19    Madam President.

20                 At this time can we return to the 

21    supplemental calendar, remove the lay-aside that 

22    was placed temporarily on Calendar Number 627, 

23    and take that bill up, please.

24                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The 

25    Secretary will read.


                                                               2509

 1                 THE SECRETARY:   Calendar Number 

 2    627, Senate Print 6454, Independent Redistricting 

 3    Commission, an act to amend the State Law.

 4                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Read the 

 5    last section.

 6                 THE SECRETARY:   Section 6.  This 

 7    act shall take effect immediately.

 8                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Call the 

 9    roll.

10                 (The Secretary called the roll.)

11                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   Announce 

12    the results.

13                 THE SECRETARY:   In relation to 

14    Calendar Number 627, voting in the negative:  

15    Senator Lanza.  

16                 Ayes, 56.  Nays, 1.

17                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The bill 

18    is passed.

19                 Senator Gianaris, that completes the 

20    reading of today's calendar.

21                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Is there any 

22    further business at the desk?

23                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   There is 

24    no further business at the desk.

25                 SENATOR GIANARIS:   Let me remind my 


                                                               2510

 1    colleagues we're going back into a Democratic 

 2    conference upon adjournment.  

 3                 On that, I move to adjourn until 

 4    tomorrow, Tuesday, April 25th, at 3:00 p.m.

 5                 ACTING PRESIDENT MAYER:   The Senate 

 6    stands adjourned until tomorrow, April 25th, at 

 7    3:00 p.m.

 8                 (Whereupon, at 12:53 p.m., the 

 9    Senate adjourned.)

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