Public Hearing - January 24, 2024

                                                                       1

 1  BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE FINANCE
    AND ASSEMBLY WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEES
 2  ----------------------------------------------------
            JOINT LEGISLATIVE HEARING
 3             In the Matter of the
            2024-2025 EXECUTIVE BUDGET
 4              ON TRANSPORTATION
    
 5  ----------------------------------------------------
    
 6                              Hearing Room B 
                                Legislative Office Building
 7                              Albany, New York 
    
 8                              January 24, 2024
                                9:49 a.m.
 9  

10  PRESIDING:

11            Senator Liz Krueger
              Chair, Senate Finance Committee
12  
              Assemblyman William B. Magnarelli
13            Chair, Assembly Committee on Transportation
    
14  PRESENT:

15            Senator Thomas F. O'Mara
              Senate Finance Committee (RM)
16  
              Assemblyman Edward P. Ra 
17            Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)
    
18            Senator Timothy M. Kennedy
              Chair, Senate Committee on Transportation
19  
              Senator Leroy Comrie
20            Chair, Senate Committee on Corporations, 
               Authorities & Commissions
21  
              Assemblyman Kenneth Zebrowski 
22            Chair, Assembly Committee on Corporations,
               Authorities & Commissions
23  
    
24


                                                                   2

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Transportation
 2  1-24-24
    
 3  PRESENT:  (Continued)

 4            Assemblyman Jonathan G. Jacobson
    
 5            Assemblyman Charles D. Fall
    
 6            Assemblywoman Emily Gallagher
    
 7            Senator Shelley B. Mayer
    
 8            Assemblywoman Jessica González-Rojas
    
 9            Senator Jessica Ramos
    
10            Assemblyman Steven Otis
    
11            Assemblywoman Jo Anne Simon
    
12            Assemblyman Robert C. Carroll
    
13            Senator John C. Liu
    
14            Assemblywoman Gina Sillitti
    
15            Assemblywoman Marcela Mitaynes
    
16            Senator Brad Hoylman-Sigal
    
17            Assemblywoman Taylor Darling
    
18            Senator Roxanne Persaud
    
19            Assemblywoman Rebecca A. Seawright
    
20            Senator Jeremy A. Cooney
    
21            Assemblywoman Patricia Fahy
    
22            Assemblyman Philip A. Palmesano
    
23            Assemblyman Jonathan Rivera

24


                                                                   3

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Transportation
 2  1-24-24
    
 3  PRESENT:  (Continued)

 4            Senator Kristen Gonzalez
    
 5            Assemblyman John Lemondes
    
 6            Assemblyman Erik M. Dilan
    
 7            Assemblywoman MaryJane Shimsky
    
 8            Senator Mario R. Mattera
    
 9            Senator Andrew Gounardes
    
10            Assemblywoman Jodi Giglio
    
11            Assemblyman Michael Durso
    
12            Senator Julia Salazar
    
13            Assemblyman Matt Slater
    
14            Senator Michelle Hinchey
    
15            Assemblyman Brian D. Miller
    
16            Assemblyman Tony Simone
    
17            Assemblywoman Latrice M. Walker
    
18            Assemblyman Kenny Burgos
    
19            Senator Bill Weber
    
20            Assemblywoman Stacey Pheffer Amato
    
21            Senator Pete Harckham
    
22            Assemblywoman Yudelka Tapia
    
23            Assemblyman Brian Manktelow
    
24            Assemblyman John T. McDonald III
    

                                                                   4

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Transportation
 2  1-24-24
    
 3  PRESENT:  (Continued)

 4            Senator Nathalia Fernandez
    
 5            Assemblyman George Alvarez
    
 6            Assemblyman Alex Bores
    
 7            Assemblyman Brian Cunningham
    
 8            Assemblyman Manny De Los Santos
    
 9            Assemblywoman Monica P. Wallace
    
10            Assemblyman William Colton
    
11  
    
12  
    
13  
    
14                     LIST OF SPEAKERS
    
15                                        STATEMENT  QUESTIONS
    
16  Janno Lieber 
    Chairman and CEO 
17  Metropolitan Transportation 
     Authority (MTA)                          14       24
18  
    Marie Therese Dominguez
19  Commissioner 
    NYS Department of Transportation         213      221
20  
    Mark J.F. Schroeder 
21  Commissioner
    New York State Department
22   of Motor Vehicles                       
         -and-
23  Frank G. Hoare
    Interim Executive Director
24  NYS Thruway Authority                    350      368
    

                                                                   5

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Transportation
 2  January 24, 2024
    
 3                     LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued 
    
 4                                       STATEMENT  QUESTIONS
    
 5  James Morrell 
    President
 6  NY Public Transit Association
         -and-
 7  Lisa Daglian
    Executive Director
 8  Permanent Citizens Advisory
     Committee to the MTA                 
 9       -and-
    Danny Pearlstein
10  Policy & Communications Director
    Riders Alliance
11       -and-
    Steve Strauss 
12  Executive Director
    Empire State Passengers Assn.            459       474  
13  
    Jeffrey Smith 
14  President
    New York State County Highway
15   Superintendents Association
         -and-
16  Greg Hallberg 
    President
17  NYS Association of Town
     Superintendents of Highways
18       -and-
    John Cooney, Jr.
19  Executive Director
    Construction Industry Council of
20   Westchester & Hudson Valley, Inc. 
         -and-
21  Walter Pacholczak
    VP of Government Affairs
22  Associated General Contractors
     of New York State                     
23       -and-
    Fred Hiffa
24  Consultant
    Rebuild NY Now                            484       501

                                                                   6

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Transportation
 2  1-24-2024
    
 3                     LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued 
    
 4                                       STATEMENT  QUESTIONS
    
 5  Kevin Chlad
    Director of Government
 6   Relations
    Adirondack Council
 7       -and-
    Ronald L. Epstein
 8  President & CEO
    New York Construction
 9   Materials Association
         -and-
10  Mark Heefner
    President
11  New York Aviation Management 
     Association (NYAMA)
12       -and-
    Sawyer Bailey
13  Executive Director
    AdkAction
14       -and-
    Kevin Byrne
15  County Executive 
    Putnam County                            520       537
16  
    
17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24


                                                                   7

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Hi.  Good 

 2           morning, everyone.  Welcome to today's budget 

 3           hearing on Transportation.  

 4                  I'm Liz Krueger, chair of the Senate 

 5           Finance Committee.  My usual cochair for 

 6           these hearings, Helene Weinstein, chair of 

 7           Assembly Ways and Means, won't be with us 

 8           this week due to knee surgery.  But we have 

 9           special guest star Assembly chairs every 

10           single day.  So our special guest-star chair, 

11           doing double duty as the chair of 

12           Transportation and today the acting chair of 

13           Ways and Means for today's hearing, is of 

14           course Assemblymember -- oh, my goodness, I 

15           just --

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Bill 

17           Magnarelli.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I know, 

19           Magnarelli.  I decided to call you Magee for 

20           a second.  So sorry.  And I know 

21           Assemblymember Magnarelli, and my brain isn't 

22           working yet.  

23                  And it's actually technically the 

24           Assembly's day to run the hearing, so my 


                                                                   8

 1           Assemblymember colleague will be starting us 

 2           out.  

 3                  And also, for all the Senators and 

 4           Assemblymembers, you will have many 

 5           questions, we know that.  If you can let -- 

 6           if you're in the Senate, let me know that you 

 7           want to ask a question.  If you're a Senate 

 8           Republican, ask Tom O'Mara, our ranker on 

 9           Finance.  Let Senator -- oh, I made you a 

10           Senator -- Assemblymember Magnarelli know, or 

11           Assemblymember Ra know, and we start lists.  

12           And we try to balance between S and A, both 

13           parties.  

14                  So with that, I will finish -- I guess 

15           I'm officially finished -- oh, one more 

16           thing.  Ten minutes for questions if you are 

17           a chair of a relevant committee -- so today 

18           we have Transportation and Finance, Ways and 

19           Means.  Five minutes if you're a ranker.  

20           Three minutes for everyone else for questions 

21           of the government panel.  

22                  That includes -- this is the important 

23           part.  Because you'll watch the clocks and 

24           you'll see the time.  That's your questions 


                                                                   9

 1           plus their answers.  Some people like to do 

 2           extensively long questions.  Some people just 

 3           like to make a speech.  We are in politics.  

 4           If you spend all the time asking your 

 5           question or making a speech, you won't get an 

 6           answer, because they won't have any time to 

 7           answer.  

 8                  So we will then ask everyone to please 

 9           to put their answers in writing and share 

10           them with both committee leads, and then we 

11           will make them available to everyone.  

12                  But again, every day I get people 

13           going, You didn't let them answer.  And so I 

14           just want to reemphasize, that three-minute 

15           clock is amazingly quick, and that's for you 

16           asking and getting answers.  So think of it 

17           all as lightning rounds.  And then of course 

18           you can do follow-up with anyone who's 

19           testifying.  

20                  Also, we only print out the testimony 

21           of the government representatives.  All the 

22           other testimony, and there's a lot of it, 

23           gets put up on the Senate Finance site and 

24           the Assembly Ways and Means site, so people 


                                                                   10

 1           can read it while they're here or can read it 

 2           at their convenience from wherever they are 

 3           in the State of New York.  

 4                  That's the small business side.  Now 

 5           it's yours.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you so 

 7           much.  She took half of my opening remarks, 

 8           but that's good.  Very good.

 9                  Anyway, good morning, everyone.  I am 

10           William Magnarelli, chair of the New York 

11           State Assembly's Transportation Committee and 

12           cochair of today's hearing, along with 

13           Senator Liz Krueger, as she has already 

14           stated.  

15                  I'm filling in for Helene Weinstein, 

16           as she already mentioned.  And I can't tell 

17           you how much I miss Helene, okay, being here.

18                  Today we begin the second in a series 

19           of hearings conducted by the joint fiscal 

20           committees of the Legislature regarding the 

21           Governor's proposed budget for fiscal year 

22           '24-'25.  The hearings are conducted pursuant 

23           to the New York State Constitution and the 

24           Legislative Law.


                                                                   11

 1                  Today the Assembly Ways and Means 

 2           Committee and the Senate Finance Committee, 

 3           as well as the corresponding committee 

 4           members in each house relevant to 

 5           transportation, will hear testimony 

 6           concerning the Governor's budget proposal for 

 7           transportation.

 8                  I will now introduce participating 

 9           members from the Assembly, and after that 

10           Senator Krueger will introduce members from 

11           the Senate.

12                  In addition, ranking Ways and Means 

13           member Ra, next to me, will introduce members 

14           from his conference.

15                  So far today -- and I'm sure we'll get 

16           more as the morning goes on -- we have 

17           Members Simone, Bores, Darling, Otis, Fall, 

18           Gallagher, Zebrowski, Burgos, Mitaynes, 

19           Dilan, Sillitti, De Los Santos, Carroll, and 

20           Shimsky.  And if I've missed anybody, I'm 

21           sure we'll fill that in as we go along.

22                  Liz?  

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

24           much.  I am joined by Senator Hoylman-Sigal, 


                                                                   12

 1           Senator Liu, Senator Comrie, who is the chair 

 2           of Corporations; Senator Kennedy, the chair 

 3           of Transportation; Senator Persaud, 

 4           Senator Salazar, Senator Harckham, 

 5           Senator Fernandez, Senator Hinchey, 

 6           Senator Gonzalez.  

 7                  And I will now turn it over to 

 8           Tom O'Mara, the ranker on Finance, to 

 9           introduce his members.

10                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you, Senator.  

11                  At this point we're joined by 

12           Senator Bill Weber, and expecting others to 

13           come.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Mr. Ra?

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you, Chair.  

16                  We are joined by Assemblyman Lemondes, 

17           who is our ranking member on the Corporations 

18           Committee, as well as Members Slater and 

19           Brian Miller.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  I have three 

21           more members that have joined us:  Members 

22           Alvarez, Simon and Tapia.

23                  With that, I would just like to remind 

24           everybody of what Senator Krueger has already 


                                                                   13

 1           said in terms of the time limits, simply to 

 2           say that they will be enforced according to 

 3           the clock.  

 4                  I should note that all written 

 5           testimony has been submitted to the 

 6           legislators in advance, so we ask that all 

 7           witnesses please do not read from your 

 8           written testimony to us.  Instead, please 

 9           summarize.  

10                  Everyone, witnesses and legislators, 

11           should locate the time clock and keep an eye 

12           on it.  Please note that when the clock is 

13           down to zero, you will be alerted that your 

14           time is up.

15                  Please be considerate and respect the 

16           Zoom clock so that everyone has a chance to 

17           be heard.  

18                  Please note that these time frames for 

19           questioning include both questions and 

20           answers, as Liz has already said, so members 

21           are respectfully requested not to commence a 

22           new question with insufficient time on the 

23           clock to permit a witness to answer.  Due to 

24           the length of our hearings, we have no 


                                                                   14

 1           alternative but to strictly enforce these 

 2           time limits.

 3                  I will now call the first witness, 

 4           Mr. Janno Lieber, chairman and chief 

 5           executive of the Metropolitan Transportation 

 6           Authority.  

 7                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Good morning.  And 

 8           thank you for hosting us.  

 9                  Especially thanks to the Committee 

10           Chairs Krueger, Zebrowski, Kennedy, 

11           Magnarelli, and Comrie.  I also want to 

12           acknowledge the rankers present, 

13           Senator O'Mara and Assemblymember Ra, as 

14           well.

15                  I am joined today by MTA Chief 

16           Financial Officer Kevin Willens; his deputy, 

17           Jai Patel; Acting Chief Customer Officer 

18           Shanifah Rieara, for customer-specific 

19           questions; and New York City Transit 

20           President Rich Davey, who can answer any 

21           questions about the recent safety incidents 

22           as well as other New York City Transit- 

23           specific issues.

24                  Now, listen.  This is a budget 


                                                                   15

 1           hearing, so I'm going to start with an update 

 2           on the MTA's financial position.  What a 

 3           difference a year makes.  This time last 

 4           year, in 2023 when I was with you in this 

 5           very room, we were facing an estimated 

 6           $2.8 billion annual deficit that was on track 

 7           to grow to $3 billion by 2026.  Today, ladies 

 8           and gentlemen, that number is zero.  And we 

 9           are projecting a balanced operating budget at 

10           the MTA through 2027, thanks to Governor 

11           Hochul, an amazingly transit-friendly 

12           governor, who since she took office has been 

13           a great friend to MTA riders.  But also 

14           because of all of you, the New York State 

15           Legislature.  On behalf of the MTA and our 

16           millions of daily customers, a 

17           billion-eight-plus rides a year, I want to 

18           thank all of you for setting the bar 

19           nationally on what it means to prioritize 

20           mass transit.

21                  I know people got tired of hearing me 

22           talk about how for New Yorkers, transit is 

23           like air and water, that we need it to 

24           survive.  But it is true.  The lifeline that 


                                                                   16

 1           you provided in 2023 has allowed us not only 

 2           to keep running service at a high level, but 

 3           to expand it significantly while also 

 4           continuing to invest in the MTA network.  

 5                  Look at what we accomplished with your 

 6           support in the past year.  Top priority for 

 7           MTA riders, frequency and reliability of 

 8           service.  And we've made huge strides on both 

 9           fronts.  Subway service, ladies and 

10           gentlemen, is the best that it's been in a 

11           decade.  And we are raising the bar for even 

12           higher performance, on-time performance, in 

13           2024.  And last year we actually improved 

14           frequencies on eight subway lines, cutting 

15           the headways, the time between trains, by 20 

16           to 25 percent.  And we're on track to do that 

17           with several more lines this summer.

18                  Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North 

19           finished the year with a combined 96 percent 

20           on-time performance track record.  Amazing.  

21           And since the operating of Grand Central 

22           Madison almost exactly a year ago, 

23           Long Island Rail Road has been running an 

24           additional 300 trains per weekday.  It's a 


                                                                   17

 1           40 percent increase in service on the 

 2           Long Island Rail Road.  And it includes 

 3           robust reverse commuting service for the 

 4           first time ever, which is really a huge 

 5           positive jolt for Long Island's economy.

 6                  To give you context, that 300 daily 

 7           additional trains on the Long Island Rail 

 8           Road is almost the same number of trains that 

 9           New Jersey Transit runs, total, into New York 

10           City every day.  And we've done this while 

11           implementing CityTicket, which dramatically 

12           slashes prices on in-city travel for -- on 

13           Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North, while 

14           also keeping the cost of monthly passes for 

15           our Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North 

16           commuters below pre-COVID levels.  Real 

17           value.

18                  Customer satisfaction with 

19           paratransit, the Access-A-Ride service, which 

20           over the years has struggled, has soared in 

21           the past year.  And we are actually 

22           tightening our on-time performance goals 

23           because we are exceeding the federal standard 

24           for on-time performance in paratransit.


                                                                   18

 1                  We've been making huge progress 

 2           implementing the historic 2020-'24 capital 

 3           program.  Over the last three years we 

 4           averaged $9 billion per year in contract 

 5           awards.  That's what you need to do if you're 

 6           going to run a $50 billion five-year program.

 7                  And equally important, we are knocking 

 8           out our capital projects faster, better and 

 9           cheaper than ever before, including 25 ADA 

10           station completions since 2020.  That's four 

11           times the pace of ADA projects in prior MTA 

12           eras.

13                  And notably, subway crime, something 

14           we're keeping a close eye on, all of us, is 

15           down 10 percent versus before the pandemic.  

16           Not widely understood because of the way it's 

17           covered in the news, but we are actually well 

18           below pre-COVID levels.

19                  All of this has helped us to bring 

20           riders back to transit.  Paid ridership on 

21           the subways is now roughly 70 percent of 

22           pre-COVID levels, and it's about 75 percent 

23           on the commuter railroads.  But these numbers 

24           don't count customers who don't pay the 


                                                                   19

 1           fare -- and there are many.  Indeed, if you 

 2           include the nonpaying riders, we're actually 

 3           closer to 82 percent of pre-COVID ridership.  

 4           So fare and toll evasion do represent one of 

 5           the principal threats to our fiscal health 

 6           going forward.

 7                  The ridership rebound has been 

 8           amazing, even improbable.  Who would have 

 9           thunk it, given the advent of hybrid work and 

10           other changes wrought by the pandemic.  For a 

11           while it seemed like people would never want 

12           to be in crowded spaces again.

13                  Traffic on the MTA bridges and 

14           tunnels, the driving is higher than it was 

15           pre-COVID.  Yet we are here.  The Biden 

16           administration has made infrastructure once 

17           again a national priority, and New York is 

18           leading the way.

19                  We are determined at the MTA to keep 

20           the positive momentum going by becoming a 

21           more efficient -- this is a budget hearing, 

22           so I'm going to emphasize a more efficient 

23           and lots more cost-effective agency.  Part of 

24           the 2023 budget deal with the Governor called 


                                                                   20

 1           for 400 million per year in cost savings 

 2           without cutting service or layoffs.  We've 

 3           actually exceeded the goal, and we are now 

 4           planning to have that efficiency level raised 

 5           to 500 million next year.  And all without 

 6           layoffs or cutting service.

 7                  And we're doing it while, as I said, 

 8           providing significantly more subway and 

 9           commuter rail service and operating a new 

10           major terminal at Grand Central Station, and 

11           while also implementing increases to bus 

12           service as we implement our 

13           borough-by-borough bus redesign, which is 

14           actually going to grow frequency of bus 

15           service.

16                  But here's the kicker, ladies and 

17           gentlemen.  Even with all that extra subway, 

18           bus and commuter rail service, all of which 

19           is accounted for in the five-year plan, in 

20           real inflation-adjusted dollars the MTA 

21           budget has actually gone down by 3 percent 

22           since 2019.  Let me say it again.  The MTA's 

23           providing a ton more service but spending 

24           3 percent less than pre-COVID.  That is good 


                                                                   21

 1           government in action.  

 2                  This is a new MTA.  We're making good 

 3           on our commitment to change the way we do 

 4           business, growing ridership, improving and 

 5           increasing service, reducing costs, pursuing 

 6           transit equity -- these are our priorities.

 7                  Now, the commitment to efficiency and 

 8           equity is also reflected in our work on the 

 9           capital side.  There, we're executing 

10           projects on budget and on schedule more than 

11           ever.  

12                  Folks, it is time to stop talking 

13           about the budget problems of East Side Access 

14           and other projects begun three or four 

15           governors ago.  Please start judging the MTA 

16           by what we've done in recent years, 

17           especially during the hard times of COVID.  

18           For example, the $2.5 billion Third Track 

19           Project on Long Island Rail Road, 

20           $100 million under budget.  The L Train redo, 

21           so controversial, three months early and 

22           $100 million under budget.  The ADA projects, 

23           those 25 projects we opened since 2020, 

24           $250 million in savings versus estimates.  


                                                                   22

 1           The Long Island Rail Road Penn Station 

 2           Concourse, a $700 million project, on time 

 3           and on budget.  

 4                  And just this week, we awarded the 

 5           first contract for Second Avenue Subway Phase 

 6           2, and we've already squeezed a 

 7           billion-three, $1.3 billion, and we're still 

 8           looking for more savings.  We're always 

 9           looking for more savings.

10                  Even our approach to how we expand the 

11           system reflects this intense focus on cost 

12           containment.  Wherever we can, we look for 

13           ways to expand the system, not only by 

14           building new tunnels and systems from 

15           scratch, but by squeezing more transit out of 

16           our existing infrastructure.  That's the 

17           strategy underlying Governor Hochul's IBX, 

18           the Interborough Express, which would 

19           repurpose an existing right of way -- which 

20           is mostly moribund -- but to connect Queens 

21           and Brooklyn riders, which is a huge path of 

22           travel that's largely undealt with.  It's 

23           also the logic behind Penn Access, which is 

24           going to retrofit Amtrak's underutilized 


                                                                   23

 1           Hell Gate Line to serve the East Bronx.

 2                  And we're paying for these projects, 

 3           to a great extent, with the revenues from 

 4           congestion pricing -- which you, back in 

 5           2019, made the law of the State of New York.  

 6                  MTA is doing what's necessary to 

 7           prepare for implementation of congestion 

 8           pricing, including increasing service 

 9           installing the tolling infrastructure.  As 

10           you all know, we did a 4,000-page, 

11           four-year-long environmental process which 

12           earned us federal approval and put us in a 

13           position to turn on the system, barring 

14           further interventions from pro-traffic 

15           litigants in New Jersey or elsewhere.

16                  But let me be clear.  If there are 

17           delays to congestion pricing, it will push 

18           back schedules of major projects, ADA 

19           accessibility, zero-emissions buses, 

20           signaling projects serving -- middle-class 

21           and working-class people on the A train may 

22           not get a signaling project because of the 

23           New Jersey lawsuit.  So we're hoping for a 

24           quick resolution.


                                                                   24

 1                  Listen, just in conclusion, with your 

 2           support the MTA has made huge strides in 

 3           recent years.  But there's always going to be 

 4           new and big issues facing our agency.  Under 

 5           Governor Hochul's pro-transit leadership, and 

 6           with your support, we're going to keep 

 7           tackling them.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  This 

 9           concludes --

10                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  And with that, I am 

11           thrilled to take your questions.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

13           sir.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Close.

15                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Thank you.  

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Close, that's 

17           right.

18                  I'm going to save my questions for 

19           later.  I'm going to call the first 

20           Assemblymember for questions:  Chair 

21           Zebrowski, please.

22                  (Discussion off the record.)

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  We'd prefer DOT 

24           to also join you.  Are they here?  If they're 


                                                                   25

 1           not here, clearly we can't have them join us.  

 2                  But in general, if you please look at 

 3           your chart list, it's -- a panel is whoever 

 4           is on the panel together, that comes up 

 5           together.  So we will have to make an 

 6           exception now.  

 7                  (Discussion off the record.)

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  So can we 

 9           call Chairman Zebrowski.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  All right, 

11           thank you.  

12                  Good morning, Chair, and to your team.  

13           Thanks for being with us.  Thanks for our 

14           collaboration and work and the things you've 

15           done for the MTA and for New Yorkers.  

16                  Let me start with a few questions 

17           regarding just some of the things we achieved 

18           last year in the budget and, you know, what 

19           we've seen.  First, the $35 million for 

20           service improvements -- midday, weekday, 

21           weeknight service -- do you have a sense of 

22           how that money's been spent, whether -- if 

23           it's been spent, and whether we've seen any 

24           results from that yet?  


                                                                   26

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, as I said, we 

 2           have implemented the service increases on 

 3           eight of the 11 lines that were targeted for 

 4           those service increases, and we're able to 

 5           provide much more frequent service.  And the 

 6           key is it's in the off-hours, you know, on 

 7           the shoulders, off-peak.  

 8                  You know, the system has very, very 

 9           frequent service in the peak hours.  What you 

10           did last year enables us to provide a little 

11           more nights, weekends and so on, and we were 

12           able to do that.  

13                  Rich, anything to add?

14                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Just 

15           specifically, you know, the G, J and M 

16           service; C, N, R; 1, 6.  And then weekends 

17           and nights, as the chair mentioned.  

18                  This spring we're adding some more 

19           service:  It will be B, D, J, M midnights -- 

20           I'm sorry, mid-days and evenings, and on the 

21           weekends the 3 and the 5.  

22                  But as the chair said, we shrinking 

23           the headways from 12 minutes, 10 minutes, 

24           down to 8 minutes.  Meaning the average, you 


                                                                   27

 1           know, New Yorker's going to wait around 

 2           4 minutes now for these services.  Which, you 

 3           know, they continue to tell us that's what 

 4           they want, more service.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Great.  The 35 

 6           million for safety investments, what's 

 7           been -- how has that been spent, and what 

 8           have we seen from that money, if anything?  

 9                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Yeah, so on the 

10           CT initiative we focused on a few areas, but 

11           specifically I'll talk about two.  One is our 

12           gate guard initiative, which is, I think 

13           folks know, those emergency gates that can be 

14           legitimately used by folks who are -- you 

15           know, have a stroller, for example, or 

16           luggage, or may be in a wheelchair, for 

17           example.  

18                  But then others use that for nefarious 

19           purposes.  They'll skip paying the fare.  

20                  What we've done is deployed unarmed 

21           gate guards at those 35 stations, to not only 

22           be the eyes and ears in the system, to report 

23           things to police if they see a crime, but 

24           also to deter folks from going through the 


                                                                   28

 1           gate.  

 2                  What we have seen there is a 

 3           two-to-one payment back.  So for every dollar 

 4           we spend on that unarmed guard program, we 

 5           see about $2 back in fares at those stations, 

 6           which is good.

 7                  Another piece that we've very much 

 8           been focused on is cameras in our system.  

 9           You know, I've often made the joke that we 

10           have more cameras than a Las Vegas casino at 

11           New York City Transit, and we're solving 

12           crimes and giving, you know, photos to 

13           police.  

14                  And so now we are rolling that out on 

15           our trains.  And so we will, for the first 

16           time ever, have cameras in all of our trains, 

17           we hope by the end of the year -- I've 

18           challenged the team.  But our commitment to 

19           the public and to you is by mid-next year.  

20           About 15 percent of the fleet now has cameras 

21           inside the trains.  

22                  So these are the tangible things we're 

23           working on to improve not only fare evasions, 

24           as the chair talked about, but also safety.


                                                                   29

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  So you 

 2           mentioned the cameras, so just to stick on 

 3           that for a second.  So what have you seen 

 4           recently or over a longer period of time in 

 5           terms of crime statistics in the system?

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  As I said, crime is 

 7           down 10 percent versus pre-COVID.  And as 

 8           important to your question about cameras, 

 9           because we have 10,000 cameras throughout the 

10           system, both at the fare -- on the platform, 

11           spread throughout the stations, and now we're 

12           putting cameras inside.  

13                  What we're seeing is with violent 

14           crime, almost in every instance the NYPD is 

15           using those images to collar the person 

16           within a matter of 48 or, at most, 72 hours.  

17           So very infrequently, crimes in the subway 

18           system that are not resulting in arrests in 

19           short order.  So that's been a good 

20           investment.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  All right.  

22           The 15 million for the free fare bus pilot 

23           program, has it been rolled out?  How's it 

24           been going?  Do you have any lessons learned 


                                                                   30

 1           thus far from the program?

 2                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, we've 

 3           implemented it.  We did five free buses.  We 

 4           did it analytically.  Rich's team in 

 5           operations planning really bore down, using 

 6           the criteria that the Legislature put in the 

 7           law, selected one route in each borough.  And 

 8           that has been in effect for three, four 

 9           months now.  

10                  It's premature for us to give a 

11           report.  I think we want to follow what the 

12           legislation said and give you a report after 

13           a six-to-12-month period, when we've been 

14           able to evaluate not only ridership but where 

15           is the ridership coming from, what are the 

16           consequences through the whole system, and 

17           the benefits.  

18                  So we're going to give an IOU, if 

19           that's okay --

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Sure.

21                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  -- on that issue 

22           until we've completed the work and the 

23           analysis.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Sure.  Have 


                                                                   31

 1           you seen any preliminary data regarding fare 

 2           evasion with that pilot program?  Or is that 

 3           also something you'll subsequently be able to 

 4           report?  

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  It probably just 

 6           wouldn't be responsible for me to say.  It's 

 7           too early.  

 8                  But, you know, ridership is up.  

 9           people like free, news flash.  But -- but 

10           it's not clear where the ridership is coming 

11           from.  And again, the goal is to sort of 

12           improve connectivity and mobility, and 

13           whether we're getting new riders and new 

14           connections and people having more access to 

15           jobs and education.  So -- so we want to 

16           study that and give you a full report.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  I know there 

18           was some fear of perhaps -- obviously you 

19           can't, you know, evade a free fare.  But 

20           perhaps by having some free, that there might 

21           be more fare evasion on other bus lines.  And 

22           perhaps that would be the part of the 

23           subsequent report?

24                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  I think -- 


                                                                   32

 1           you know, other places have definitely seen 

 2           that.  You know, confusion about free and not 

 3           free does have some consequences.  I don't 

 4           want to draw conclusions at this point about 

 5           that.

 6                  But the bigger picture is we are 

 7           really having a serious problem with, you 

 8           know, fare evasion in the system, and we're 

 9           trying to deal with it in a responsible way 

10           that addressed equity as well as, you know, 

11           making sure people understand they have to 

12           pay the fare.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  The automated 

14           bus lane enforcement that was instituted, the 

15           additional cameras, how's that been going?  

16           How many?  Has there been an impact on 

17           speeds?  Tickets, how many tickets?  

18           Recidivism?  Anything broadly on that we can 

19           report?

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, not yet.  But 

21           I'll let the man who's gone out and given 

22           some of those tickets talk about it.  

23                  Rich?  

24                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Thank you, 


                                                                   33

 1           Chair.  

 2                  So, you know, as you know, the 

 3           legislation kicks in in May, so we've been 

 4           preparing for that moment.  And what we've 

 5           been calling this is a transition from ABLE, 

 6           which is Automated Bus Lane Enforcement, to 

 7           the powers that you gave us, which is to not 

 8           only ticket cars that are parked in bus 

 9           lanes -- and appropriately, there are 

10           instances when it is appropriate to be in a 

11           bus lane, but a lot of people don't follow 

12           that; parked in bus stops, which is frankly 

13           an equity issue -- you know, a lot of our 

14           customers who are disabled or elderly need to 

15           get to that curb, and we have cars in the 

16           way; and then also double-parked cars and 

17           cars parked in bike lanes.  

18                  All of that we will be prepared to 

19           roll out.  We'll be on 14 routes, about 

20           600 buses, as we grow the program.  

21                  On the recidivism rate, the good news 

22           is that behavior changes.  So the ABLE 

23           enforcement we've had the last few years, 

24           80 percent of folks who get a ticket do not 


                                                                   34

 1           get a second ticket.  And an additional 

 2           9 percent who get a second ticket don't get a 

 3           third.  So by the time you get two tickets, 

 4           90 percent of New Yorkers or visitors say:  I 

 5           get it, I need to stay out of the bus lanes.

 6                  So we're excited about that.  

 7                  And then to your point, where we see 

 8           both bus lanes and enforcement, on average 

 9           it's about a 33 percent improvement for 

10           speed.  And that is realtime for New Yorkers, 

11           you know, the 2-plus-million who use our 

12           service.

13                  So we're appreciative and excited 

14           about these tools you've given us, and we 

15           look forward to reporting out on what we 

16           expect will be success.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Thank you.  

18           Thirty-three percent is significant.

19                  Fare evasion.  I know you mentioned it 

20           in your testimony.  Perhaps I missed it, but 

21           I have a couple of questions related to that.  

22                  You know, do you have global estimates 

23           for how much you lose a year in fare evasion?  

24           And specifically to this budget and the 


                                                                   35

 1           Executive Budget proposal, I know there are 

 2           some provisions related to combating fare 

 3           evasion.  And so do you also have any 

 4           estimates for how these proposals would 

 5           reduce those -- the current numbers?

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Okay.  Well, you 

 7           know, fare evasion has grown significantly 

 8           since pre-COVID.  And there are many areas 

 9           which you as the legislative body are 

10           wrestling with where, you know, there's sort 

11           of -- we've lost a little bit of rule 

12           compliance in many parts of our system, 

13           right?  

14                  So fare evasion has significantly 

15           increased.  We are assuming that we, with 

16           your support, will be able to drive fare 

17           evasion back to roughly the level it was, 

18           which is about, you know, below half of what 

19           it is right now.

20                  So we're -- our last report was that 

21           it's like $700 million a year.  We need to 

22           move that, if we're able, in order to 

23           maintain progress on the financial plan that 

24           we've laid out with you.


                                                                   36

 1                  So we've done a ton.  You know, part 

 2           of is physical.  We are, as of now, starting 

 3           a pilot to delay that exit gate that is so 

 4           much the superhighway of fare evasion in our 

 5           system, realistically.  We're working -- the 

 6           Department of State has okayed, the Fire Code 

 7           authorities have okayed us putting a delay on 

 8           that.  People aren't supposed to use that for 

 9           exiting.  When they do, it opens up, people 

10           come in improperly.  So we're dealing with 

11           that.

12                  We have the gate guards program that 

13           Rich has talked about.  We have actually 

14           reconfigured the turnstiles -- it's a little 

15           technical --- so people can't back-cock, an 

16           old-fashioned New York way of fare evading.  

17           And there are a lot of other fiscal 

18           improvements.  We have rekeyed all of the 

19           exit gates in the whole system.  

20                  So we have done a ton.  But those 

21           proposals that are in front of you are part 

22           of our strategy to push back on fare evasion, 

23           but also to make sure we're doing it in an 

24           equitable way.  A first- or a second-time 


                                                                   37

 1           fare evader should be turned into a MTA 

 2           customer rather than -- you know, we don't 

 3           want to criminalize kids who do it once.  We 

 4           want a strategy.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Thank you.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 7           sir. 

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 9                  Our first questioner will be 

10           Senator Comrie, the chair of Corporations and 

11           Authorities.

12                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Good morning.  I'll 

13           go right into questions and just give 

14           everyone acknowledgements and thank you all 

15           for being here, my colleagues and the MTA.

16                  I'm concerned about making sure that 

17           there's a higher level of transparency with 

18           the MTA to ensure that we can increase 

19           ridership, that we can have safety, and that 

20           folks can understand the projects that need 

21           to be done before we start congestion pricing 

22           that you were talking about.  

23                  So -- but my first question -- oh, 

24           here we go.  The mics are working now.


                                                                   38

 1                  My first question is, what has been 

 2           the return on the investment of the 

 3           $9.4 million in the EAGLE Team which has been 

 4           dedicated to fare evasion?

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  You want to take 

 6           that?

 7                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Thanks, 

 8           Senator.  

 9                  We believe the return has been 

10           significant.  So the EAGLE Team, as folks I 

11           think know, are our unarmed civil enforcement 

12           agents that we have within New York City 

13           Transit that do that, also do graffiti, and 

14           also work with the police in some special 

15           investigations.  

16                  But we have EAGLE Team members out on 

17           our Select Buses.  So those are the buses 

18           that you have a receipt when you pay, you can 

19           show the EAGLE team member that you in fact 

20           have paid.  

21                  And recently what we've done to 

22           improve the fare evasion challenges we have 

23           on local buses is to have EAGLE Teams in what 

24           we call clusters.  So places around the city 


                                                                   39

 1           where there are multiple bus stops, who 

 2           observe their payment.  Or then if someone 

 3           perhaps doesn't want to pay, they're 

 4           encouraged to pay.  And if there is a 

 5           discussion about that, the EAGLE Team will 

 6           then, you know, ask them for identification 

 7           and produce them a summons.

 8                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Do they make arrests?

 9                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  The EAGLE Team 

10           is not -- they are not -- they do not carry 

11           weapons.  They cannot arrest.  No, they 

12           don't.  And --

13                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Then also, just -- 

14           I've got to keep going because I've got a lot 

15           of questions and a little bit of time.

16                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Yeah, sorry.

17                  SENATOR COMRIE:  The new turnstiles, 

18           there's a video out on YouTube showing how 

19           people can easily bypass them.  When is that 

20           correction going to be made?  

21                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  There's already 

22           been -- there have already been physical 

23           improvements to that that prevent -- that are 

24           designed to prevent people activating the 


                                                                   40

 1           gate from the wrong side.  And we're seeing 

 2           that there have been, you know, deterrents.  

 3           The numbers have gone down.  

 4                  Interestingly, because there's no gate 

 5           there, that superhighway of fare evasion, as 

 6           I always say, we're actually collecting more 

 7           fares on a percentage basis at that, even 

 8           though there is the problem that you 

 9           described that we have addressed, and we are 

10           in the process of addressing.  

11                  But -- so that is -- you know, part of 

12           our strategy is to change the turnstiles, but 

13           also to experiment.  You know, it's been a 

14           long time since New York really invested in 

15           changing the turnstiles to deal with modern 

16           conditions.  So that's one that we're 

17           experimenting with, we're making some changes 

18           to make it better.  But we're going to 

19           experiment with some others as well as we go 

20           forward, before we do a final procurement and 

21           selection of a new turnstile for the whole 

22           system.  You'll see a lot in the system.

23                  SENATOR COMRIE:  But that particular 

24           problem has been fixed or --


                                                                   41

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  It has been.  And 

 2           there's additional changes coming to that 

 3           fare array in the next couple of weeks.

 4                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.

 5                  What is the -- can you give us a 

 6           detailed follow-up on the projects that have 

 7           been negotiated as part of the budget last 

 8           year that need to be in place before we start 

 9           congestion pricing, the ones that we've 

10           agreed on?  Capital projects, primarily.

11                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Capital projects.  

12           So I think -- I'm looking at you and your 

13           colleague Senator Kennedy.  When congestion 

14           pricing was enacted by the Legislature and 

15           the Executive back in 2019, there was a list 

16           of projects that we would get done.  I'm 

17           happy to go into it in more length with the 

18           conference.  But I have the list.  It's like 

19           six pages long.  

20                  And I can say with confidence that 

21           they're done.

22                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Where can members 

23           access that list?  

24                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Okay, we -- I think 


                                                                   42

 1           Will Schwartz is telling me we conveyed it to 

 2           the Senate and to the various offices.  So 

 3           we're happy to get into it in more detail.

 4                  SENATOR COMRIE:  All the members have 

 5           reached it and gotten it?  I know I've gotten 

 6           it.  I just want the public to see that --

 7                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  We sent it to the 

 8           central staff, I'm told.

 9                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Right.  I want the 

10           public to see that these projects are being 

11           done also.  So if there's a way to, you know, 

12           make sure that people understand what is 

13           being done, how it's being done.  You talked 

14           earlier about projects being done on time and 

15           under budget, including the Elmont Train 

16           Station, which I'm particularly proud of, the 

17           first train station in 40 years.  

18                  But in order to make sure that the 

19           public has faith in the system, or 

20           reestablish faith in the system, people need 

21           to know that these projects are being done.  

22           And we're getting feedback from people 

23           that -- you know, folks are upset about the 

24           Second Avenue Subway being expanded now, as 


                                                                   43

 1           opposed to some other projects can be done.

 2                  But can you speak about why that's 

 3           being done now, the Second Avenue Subway 

 4           project?  

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, the 

 6           Second Avenue Subway project is -- you know, 

 7           people in East Harlem have been -- were 

 8           promised a subway in the 1940s when they 

 9           started knocking down the Second and Third 

10           Avenue elevated trains.  And there have been 

11           a series of ground-breakings with Governors 

12           as far as, you know, Rockefeller and so on.  

13                  So we don't feel bad about actually 

14           making good on that commitment.  We're going 

15           to -- we are going to do it.  We have the 

16           largest federal grant -- we got, from the 

17           Biden infrastructure program, a huge federal 

18           grant to make sure we can finally make good 

19           on our promise to East and Central Harlem.

20                  SENATOR COMRIE:  That's federal money, 

21           outside of the MTA's -- 

22                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  As you all put in 

23           the capital budget, this capital budget and 

24           the last one, there's a substantial state -- 


                                                                   44

 1           you know, piece that's coming from the state.  

 2           But it is the biggest federal grant that's 

 3           ever gone for a mass transit project.

 4                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Can you give us an 

 5           update on the MWBE participation for 

 6           workforce development and procurement 

 7           participation on -- in major contracts?

 8                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  The MTA is 

 9           by far the largest MWBE agency in the State 

10           of New York.  And I think it is, if not the, 

11           maybe the second largest nationally.  We do 

12           over a billion dollars a year in payments to 

13           M -- minority, women and disadvantaged 

14           business enterprises.  So we remain at that 

15           level, and we're committed to it.

16                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And you can send us 

17           those specific numbers?  

18                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Absolutely.

19                  SENATOR COMRIE:  All right.  And also 

20           the Outer Borough Transit Account, can you 

21           give us an update on how that's working?

22                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  The Outer 

23           Borough Account that you established a couple 

24           of years ago finally hit the levels where it 


                                                                   45

 1           was able to make investments in discounts for 

 2           some of the additional toll facilities that 

 3           were identified in the original legislation, 

 4           the Henry Hudson Bridge and the Cross Bay 

 5           Bridge.  

 6                  And we continue to look, as -- and 

 7           I'll let Mr. Willens talk about it -- as the 

 8           capital account grows, we can make additional 

 9           investments from that fund.  

10                  Kevin?

11                  MTA CFO WILLENS:  Yes, the Outer 

12           Borough Account had roughly 37 million in it 

13           that has been deployed for the bridge 

14           rebates.  And in the last year, we've 

15           collected close to -- close to 50 million.  

16           So now the for-hire vehicle fees are at a 

17           high enough level where we're, you know, more 

18           comfortable that there will be an annual flow 

19           of money into the Outer Borough Account that 

20           can support the initiatives.

21                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Okay.  Well, there's 

22           still a debate, and I have a concern about 

23           the Outer Borough Account now being used for 

24           the bridge fees, which used to be covered out 


                                                                   46

 1           of the general MTA budget from the Governor.  

 2                  The Outer Borough Account was 

 3           supposedly designed to make sure that we had 

 4           new capital projects in the outer boroughs, 

 5           not to redivert money.  

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I think you -- I 

 7           think the Legislature has to approve the 

 8           projects.  So we're all ears, and we'll work 

 9           with you on that.

10                  MTA CFO WILLENS:  And none of the 

11           Outer Borough Account money has been used to 

12           balance the MTA budget.  It's --

13                  SENATOR COMRIE:  No, no.  Not to 

14           balance.  But we used to be able to get the 

15           money for the Verrazano and the Brooklyn 

16           and -- I'm sorry, Bronx and Queens bridges, 

17           they used to come out of the general account.  

18           So I'm hoping that we can get back to that so 

19           we can expand opportunities to improve 

20           service with the Outer Borough Account.  

21           Which was the original plan for it.

22                  I'm running up on time.  Just one last 

23           question for this round.  What can you tell 

24           us about the G Train?  We had a concern from 


                                                                   47

 1           Senator Gonzalez about the need to -- with 

 2           the G Train work that's being done, they have 

 3           a concern about the timing.  And there's 

 4           also a -- they're asking to expand the number 

 5           of cars on the G Train because areas over 

 6           there are expanding, and the housing and the 

 7           population is going to expand by threefold.  

 8           So they wanted to ask about -- Senator 

 9           Gonzalez asked me to talk about the 

10           possibility of expanding to more than eight 

11           cars.  It's three cars now, I think.  

12                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  I mean, 

13           we -- we're constantly monitoring ridership 

14           and always looking at -- if you have a 

15           capacity issue, we will add cars, absolutely.  

16                  But the G Train issue that you raise 

17           has to do, I think -- in some people's minds 

18           it has to do with shutdown, the work that -- 

19           you know, to do -- the signals on the G Train 

20           are from Franklin Roosevelt's era.  They are 

21           really old.  And it inhibits reliability 

22           dramatically.  We want to bring that train 

23           into the 21st century.  

24                  So we want to get the signaling done 


                                                                   48

 1           when it's -- the choice is between a six-week 

 2           shutdown during the summer and 80 weekends, 

 3           which will really inhibit all the growth and 

 4           development and vitality.  The team felt 

 5           strongly that a six-week shutdown was much 

 6           more efficient, better for the community.  

 7                  We have a proven track record of being 

 8           able to do effective shuttle bus service in 

 9           that community along Manhattan Avenue.  

10           That's what we're going to do.  But we'll 

11           keep working with people.  

12                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

14           sir.  Thank you.

15                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  That is a hell of a 

16           noise, huh?

17                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Yeah, it's tough.  

18           I'm a slow talker, so this is rough.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Can I just 

20           announce an additional number of Senators?  

21           And there may be more Assemblymembers by now.  

22                  We have Senator Mattera, 

23           Senator Ramos, Senator Harckham, 

24           Senator Mayer and Senator Gounardes.


                                                                   49

 1                  And Assembly?  

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  And we have 

 3           two more members who have -- are here in 

 4           attendance:  Member Seawright and Member -- 

 5           Jacobson, I'm sorry.  Thank you.

 6                  I'd like to call Member Ra at this 

 7           point.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you, Chair.  

 9                  Thank you guys for being here, and 

10           your testimony.

11                  So just a couple of questions.  One of 

12           the issues that I know came up in particular 

13           in the district I represent, when everything 

14           was implemented in the spring with new 

15           schedules, with East Side Access, was some 

16           changes with regard to access to Brooklyn and 

17           Atlantic Terminal.  You know, the line -- 

18           Hempstead Branch traditionally was one that 

19           went to Atlantic Terminal, and you always had 

20           to change at Jamaica to get to Penn Station.  

21                  So what adjustments have been made 

22           over time as we've seen ridership and know 

23           what the demands are of going to the 

24           different places now?  


                                                                   50

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  I mean, 

 2           listen.  What folks need to understand is the 

 3           ability to add 300 more trains was 

 4           contingent -- this was a decision made long 

 5           before I showed up -- on moving the Atlantic 

 6           Branch service to the side.  Because having 

 7           Atlantic -- you know, Brooklyn trains cut 

 8           across the whole ladder in that whole Jamaica 

 9           complex inhibited the throughput.  You know, 

10           without getting too technical.

11                  So that decision was made.  But once 

12           we saw that there were issues with folks 

13           being able to get conveniently to Brooklyn, I 

14           think we've close to doubled the number of 

15           through trains to Brooklyn, and particularly 

16           from the branch that you mentioned.  

17                  So what we've seen is much more -- 

18           much more satisfaction among our Brooklyn 

19           customers.  Those trains are not super 

20           crowded.  It's one of the issues we're 

21           balancing.  

22                  There is also very frequent, you know, 

23           direct shuttle service to Brooklyn from 

24           Jamaica, which seems to be working out pretty 


                                                                   51

 1           well.  Overall, the schedule seems to have 

 2           settled down.  People have gotten used to it.  

 3           Much more passenger and customer acceptance.  

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.  

 5                  And another issue that I've heard from 

 6           some constituents about -- and your staff has 

 7           actually been very responsive with regard to 

 8           this -- was getting rid of the 20-ride 

 9           package.  I know it was something that was 

10           kind of piloted.  Are there any thoughts 

11           about potentially bringing that back?  I 

12           think, you know, for some, given the 

13           realities of, you know, office life now, that 

14           people just aren't going in quite as much, 

15           and that seemed to be a convenient option for 

16           many people.

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  Listen, the 

18           board had a committee that looked at all the 

19           different fare issues.  And the take-up of 

20           that particular -- although I know that, you 

21           know, members of this body have heard from 

22           folks -- the take-up of that particular fare 

23           option was not that large.  And we really 

24           wanted -- the consensus was we really wanted 


                                                                   52

 1           to keep the price of the monthlies down for 

 2           the large group of customers who take the 

 3           monthly.  And we had to do it all within the 

 4           scope of the 4 percent fare increase.

 5                  So the decision was made, as I said, 

 6           by the board, in tandem with staff, to 

 7           prioritize keeping the monthly tickets down 

 8           below pre-COVID levels.  And the usership of 

 9           that hybrid-oriented 10 -- you know, 

10           20-ticket thing was disproportionately a very 

11           affluent ridership.  So we wanted to 

12           emphasize the middle-class benefit of the 

13           monthly tickets, and also the single tickets.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  And then more 

15           globally on the security end, I know we 

16           passed some legislation a few years ago to 

17           order the MTA to install and maintain 

18           surveillance cameras in subway stations, on 

19           platforms and other high-traffic areas.  

20                  How's the implementation of that 

21           going?  Do you have any data with regard to, 

22           you know, how many cameras been installed?

23                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  I mean, 

24           Rich, you should step in here.  


                                                                   53

 1                  But listen, the number of cameras that 

 2           have been installed, even in the two years 

 3           since I've been in this role, is dramatic.  

 4           It's thousands and thousands of cameras 

 5           installed.  And now we're doing the 

 6           installation in all 8,000 of our subway cars.  

 7           So cameras are a key to our security and 

 8           safety strategy.

 9                  Rich?  

10                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  And I think 

11           throughout the system it's about 13,000, I 

12           think, in the stations -- mezzanine, 

13           platform.  As the chair said, we're 

14           implementing cameras in our subway cars.  

15           Fifteen percent of the fleet now has cameras 

16           in subway cars.

17                  Untold, by the way, is actually the 

18           number of cameras we have in our buses, and 

19           that's almost 48,000 cameras.  So a 

20           significant number of cameras as well.  

21                  And of course, you know, as was 

22           mentioned earlier, we're installing those 

23           outward-facing cameras for our buses as well, 

24           to ticket folks who may be, you know, parked 


                                                                   54

 1           in bus lanes.

 2                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  And just to 

 3           emphasize the obvious, that all of the 

 4           commuter rail cars in Long Island Rail Road 

 5           have inward-facing cameras?

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Perfectly timed.  

 8           Thank you.

 9                  Our next questioner will be Senator 

10           Tim Kennedy, the chair of the Transportation 

11           Committee.

12                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Good morning.  

13           Thanks for your testimony.  Thanks for your 

14           work.

15                  I want to start by asking about the 

16           figures in capital spending, and just giving 

17           us an update on the capital spending in 

18           New York State.  You know, this has been 

19           something we've been talking about for a long 

20           time -- the billions of dollars that are 

21           capital spending through the MTA, the jobs 

22           that are created with that.  The focus on 

23           New York rather than other parts of the 

24           nation or outside of our nation.  


                                                                   55

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  You've been a 

 2           warrior on this issue from day one.  And I'm 

 3           thrilled to say that we continue on the path 

 4           that you have reminded us that we need to 

 5           stay on, which is 90 percent of our capital 

 6           program, both materials and work, is spent in 

 7           the State of New York.  And we want to keep 

 8           it that way.  

 9                  I would like -- you know, you and I 

10           were upstate in a couple of key locations.  

11           Plattsburgh is super-important, the 

12           concentration of activity there.  Obviously 

13           Cornell, Rochester, Buffalo.  Each of those 

14           have major MTA manufacturing and service 

15           facilities, and we want to continue to grow 

16           that.

17                  We are facing a challenge, though, 

18           because, you know, Nova Bus, which is a bus 

19           manufacturer in Plattsburgh, is a subsidiary 

20           of the Volvo complex, has sort of stopped -- 

21           has announced that they're stopping 

22           operations in Plattsburgh.  So we need more 

23           bus manufacturers in America, because we have 

24           zero-emission buses demand aplenty, in 


                                                                   56

 1           New York especially.  And we want to work on 

 2           getting more of that activity into 

 3           Plattsburgh and other places.

 4                  Rich is leading a national committee 

 5           that the White House is actually involved 

 6           with, as well as the Public Transit 

 7           Association, focused on how do we grow 

 8           zero-emission buses, clean bus manufacturing 

 9           in the United States.

10                  Rich?

11                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  The only thing 

12           I would add, Senator, is that we have had 

13           conversations with other bus manufacturers 

14           who are currently not domestic about wanting 

15           to move to the United States and set up shop, 

16           potentially, in New York.  But what we can do 

17           to facilitate that is qualify those folks.  

18           So we can say, you know, that bus that you're 

19           building matches our specifications and, as a 

20           result, you would be qualified to bid.

21                  So, you know, as the chair said, we 

22           are looking for ways to continue to promote 

23           that competition.  It's so critical.  And 

24           it's a challenge I think all transit's 


                                                                   57

 1           facing.  But boy, we would love that to be --

 2                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  How many 

 3           zero-emission buses is the MTA expected to 

 4           purchase in the next five to 10 years?

 5                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  I mean, we have 

 6           a commitment to transition the entire fleet, 

 7           which is about 6,000 buses, by 2040.  If you 

 8           do the rough math, we're going to have to buy 

 9           about 200 buses or so a year to meet that.  

10                  We put our first order in this -- you 

11           know, in the last couple of months.  I should 

12           also say, too, we're also looking at hydrogen 

13           buses.  We have a grant we received from 

14           NYSERDA to look at hydrogen, and we're going 

15           to buy a couple of hydrogen buses as well.  

16                  But we're also retrofitting our 26 bus 

17           depots to ensure that we have the charging 

18           capacity.  So we have -- we're doing a lot of 

19           work.  But the entire fleet is scheduled to 

20           be replaced by 2040.

21                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I just need to add 

22           that this is an area where congestion pricing 

23           funds are needed.  We went -- we shorted what 

24           could have been a larger order of 


                                                                   58

 1           zero-emission buses just last month because 

 2           we didn't -- because of the uncertainty about 

 3           the congestion pricing money.  So it's just 

 4           one example of how dependent we are.

 5                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Yeah, how do we 

 6           improve on New York State preference, given 

 7           the obligation you have to -- you know, 

 8           making sure that it's purchased in the 

 9           United States with federal dollars?  How do 

10           we enhance New York State preference?

11                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I don't think it's 

12           that complicated.  We need -- we have the 

13           Nova Bus facility in Plattsburgh.  We need to 

14           get a first-class zero-emissions bus 

15           manufacturer to select that facility, have 

16           the right business environment and incentive 

17           package to get them to make that decision and 

18           to choose other facilities.  

19                  New York is a great place to do 

20           business for so many reasons.  We need more 

21           bus manufacturers to come.  This is not as 

22           complicated as a railcar manufacturer, for 

23           example.  We have two of those in the State 

24           of New York.  We need more bus manufacturers 


                                                                   59

 1           in the State of New York.  

 2                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  We do want to make 

 3           sure that that Plattsburgh facility is 

 4           utilized and we are putting people to work.  

 5                  I want to put a focus also on Alstom, 

 6           in Hornell.  We visited there together.  The 

 7           hundreds of jobs that are supported there, 

 8           the thousands of jobs across upstate, 

 9           particularly because of the investment of the 

10           MTA -- I want to make sure that that is taken 

11           care of.  

12                  And we have prime real estate in 

13           Buffalo, at the Port of Buffalo, that will 

14           feed the entire -- not just the MTA, but the 

15           entire Eastern Seaboard.  

16                  And so I think it's important that the 

17           MTA continues to look at ways to take that 

18           90 percent to as close to 100 percent as 

19           possible.

20                  The numbers support it.  You know, for 

21           every billion dollars that are spent in 

22           capital funding, according to your records, 

23           it creates 7500 jobs.  We want those jobs in 

24           New York.  So thank you for your commitment 


                                                                   60

 1           to that.

 2                  How do we make sure that we're 

 3           focusing in, too -- you know, I know we have 

 4           to make sure Alstom with the vacancy there -- 

 5           but, you know, on Hornell, on Alstom.  

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, I mean, right 

 7           now, as you know, we're talking about a 

 8           subway car procurement, a commuter railcar 

 9           procurement with Alstom, and Hornell's not 

10           available because they have it scheduled up.  

11           That was good news, in a way.  It was a 

12           disappointment to the MTA.  

13                  Listen, the longer-term issue, which 

14           is a national issue, but New York-specific, 

15           because we buy more railcars than the rest of 

16           the country combined, is that we don't have 

17           enough manufacturers.  We have basically two 

18           manufacturers right now that are both 

19           capacity-limited, they have their own 

20           business issues because they're both 

21           international, Alstom and Kawasaki.  I would 

22           love to see more Kawasaki activity in 

23           Yonkers.  I would love to see more Alstom 

24           activity in all of their upstate locations.  


                                                                   61

 1           And I think this is an area where the MTA has 

 2           got to lead, so we are actually undertaking a 

 3           major study of how do we grow the transit 

 4           manufacturing industry to meet the 

 5           21st century needs of the MTA and the 

 6           country?  Because right now the capacity is 

 7           too limited if we're going to keep growing.

 8                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Yeah, and again, I 

 9           want to thank you for your efforts and 

10           leadership in that space.  I know the numbers 

11           have improved.  But I know there's a long way 

12           to go, and I think there's a lot of space to 

13           continue to improve.  

14                  And I would just implore you to 

15           continue to do what you're doing, continue to 

16           make it a priority of spending in New York 

17           State, all across the state.  I mean, we just 

18           have a great opportunity with the capital 

19           spending.

20                  I want to switch gears here.  The 

21           contracts that were signed, I want to 

22           recognize the workforce that really makes the 

23           MTA run.  And, you know, I want to thank the 

24           MTA for your work in negotiating these 


                                                                   62

 1           contracts that will keep the system moving.  

 2           I know it was a very smooth process.  You 

 3           know, that was kind of a joke, Janno, just 

 4           for you.  

 5                  (Laughter.)

 6                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  But it was a smooth 

 7           process for everybody else but you, Janno.

 8                  (Laughter.)

 9                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  But really, you 

10           know, I want to recognize the workforce and 

11           your leadership in getting to a conclusion.  

12           And if you could speak on that.

13                  But I also want to go back to fare 

14           evasion, because I think it's very important.  

15           I know you've talked about it, you touched on 

16           it.  But the current scale of fare evasion, 

17           can you just give us an update on that?  

18                  And, look, the proposal in the budget 

19           talks about increasing the penalty from $100 

20           to $200.  There's no simple way to resolve 

21           this.  I know it's a complex issue.  You 

22           know, you talked about the gates being open.  

23           Sometimes that gate's open for an exit 

24           because the turnstiles are broken.  Like 


                                                                   63

 1           there's a number of different reasons, and 

 2           then people are coming in.  But there's also, 

 3           you know, turnstile jumpers.  I know there's 

 4           a lot of different reasons that fare evasion 

 5           is happening.

 6                  You know, if you could speak to what 

 7           level of enforcement it's going to take to 

 8           implement the proposal that you're looking at 

 9           in the budget.

10                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  Well, we've 

11           increased it, but we're not -- we're not 

12           expecting some dramatic upsurge in 

13           enforcement.  We do want to maintain the 

14           level of police presence in the system.  

15           Remember, the NYPD has a responsibility, by 

16           agreement, to police the whole system.  Fare 

17           evasion is incidental to what they're doing 

18           on the platforms, on the trains, as they move 

19           through the station.  So they're not standing 

20           there targeting fare evasion.  

21                  But we want them to keep, you know, 

22           supporting us.  Now, just bear in mind that 

23           probably there is one summons given out -- 

24           and they're civil summonses, it's like a 


                                                                   64

 1           parking ticket -- for every more than 

 2           thousand of fare evasion instances, we know 

 3           from the numbers.  So we're not giving out 

 4           summonses willy-nilly.  

 5                  What I want to do, and what you're 

 6           hearing from the Governor's proposal, is take 

 7           the fare evasion enforcement system and to 

 8           use it to turn people who make that mistake 

 9           and turn them into customers.  So that's why 

10           you're hearing from us about if someone signs 

11           up for Fair Fares, if they're low-income, 

12           they can waive the first ticket because we 

13           moved them into that system, and so on.  So 

14           you're seeing that in the Governor's 

15           proposal -- equity, not just enforcement.

16                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  You've got half a 

17           minute.  Can you give a quick comment on the 

18           union contracts?

19                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Listen, we -- 

20           there's a lot of noise, but the bottom line 

21           is we got -- for 35,000 MTA TWU Local 100 

22           workers, we got our agreement done, chop, 

23           chop.  And it's a significant increase, and 

24           it was ratified very strongly.  So we're on 


                                                                   65

 1           the way to a new round, very successfully, 

 2           starting with TWU.

 3                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Okay, thank you.  

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Sorry, Janno.  

 5           Moving on.  Thank you.

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Thank you.  

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  You all set?

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Yes.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  All right, 

10           the next -- Member Fall, it's your chance to 

11           question.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  Thank you, 

13           Mr. Chair.

14                  Thank you, Chair Lieber, for being 

15           here and for your leadership.  And I also 

16           want to thank your team for being very 

17           responsive to our constituent concerns 

18           related to Tompkinsville Station and 

19           quality-of-life issues we've had in Lower 

20           Manhattan.  You guys have been on top of it, 

21           addressed it, and we truly appreciate that, 

22           including those Access-A-Ride issues that 

23           we've had.

24                  I want to ask you about something 


                                                                   66

 1           that's near and dear to my heart, the Bus 

 2           Rapid Transit, BRT.  I know the MTA released 

 3           a Draft Environmental Impact Statement for 

 4           the North Shore BRT in October.  Is this a 

 5           project that the MTA plans to pursue?  And 

 6           has the analysis completed so far indicated 

 7           that this will be a viable project?

 8                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So very quickly, 

 9           the -- what you saw in this 20-year needs 

10           assessment, the most detailed document 

11           ever -- much more detailed than any document 

12           ever done -- is an evaluation neutrally of a 

13           lot of different projects that people are 

14           advocating for.

15                  The BRT fare pretty strongly in that 

16           discussion.  It's premature to talk about 

17           what will and won't be in the capital program 

18           proposal.  We are supposed to put that on the 

19           table in October.  And obviously that is 

20           financially constrained.

21                  But I do know this.  If we fall behind 

22           by letting the $15 billion of congestion 

23           pricing go, and we start to roll down the 

24           hill backwards -- the Summer of Hell in 2017 


                                                                   67

 1           when the system fell apart because we hadn't 

 2           been investing in it -- we won't be talking 

 3           about new projects.

 4                  But if we are, that project is 

 5           exciting.  And part of it is, like I said 

 6           before, it gets more transit out of existing 

 7           right-of-way.  It doesn't require only 

 8           building a new tunnel.  That's a plus.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  Okay.  That's 

10           something that's very important to us, and 

11           we've got strong support from our communities 

12           on it, so look forward to hearing more about 

13           it in the future, hopefully if you get it in 

14           the five-year capital plan.

15                  A few years ago we passed legislation 

16           related to the MTA Mentorship Program.  

17           Wanted to see what the current status of the 

18           program is, how it's been going.  And can you 

19           shed some light on it?

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  The Small Business 

21           Mentoring Program?

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  Yeah.  Mentoring, 

23           correct.

24                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Listen, the Small 


                                                                   68

 1           Business Mentoring Program is where we take 

 2           very small, mostly construction businesses, 

 3           overwhelmingly, you know, minority 

 4           businesses, and try to help them both with 

 5           training and also the opportunity to work on 

 6           small projects to grow their capacity so they 

 7           can move into competition for the bigger 

 8           jobs.  

 9                  You see I talked before about us doing 

10           a billion-plus of small minority business 

11           projects every year.  If we can build the 

12           market, that's more people from those 

13           minority, women-owned and disadvantaged 

14           communities that can get into the benefit 

15           from the MTA capital programs.  We use that 

16           as a path to growing new companies and new 

17           opportunities.  We did about 70-plus small 

18           businesses projects last year, hit our goal, 

19           and we're going to continue to grow that 

20           program.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  Thank you.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

24           much.


                                                                   69

 1                  And we'll next hear from Senator 

 2           Mattera, the ranker on Transportation or 

 3           Authorities.

 4                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Thank you, Chair.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  What 

 6           are you the ranker on?

 7                  (Mic problem; overtalk.)

 8                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Thank you, Chair.  

 9           It's great seeing you --

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Nice seeing you.

11                  SENATOR MATTERA:  -- and everybody 

12           here on the panel.  

13                  And I just want to thank the CEO, 

14           Chair Janno, for taking these questions.  And 

15           you answered everything very, very well.  

16                  And I just want to commend and thank 

17           Will Schwartz for doing a great job on 

18           Long Island with all Suffolk County elected 

19           officials and being accessible all the time, 

20           even with me.  He answers the phone right 

21           away, which, Will, I thank you for that.

22                  Lawrence Aviation is very, very 

23           important.  The site is moving forward to 

24           make sure the MTA will be secure in this 


                                                                   70

 1           property.  And my thoughts, again -- you 

 2           know, we've talked about this again, that, 

 3           right, we get the property, there it is, we 

 4           have electrification, hopefully, in the 

 5           future.  Please, no battery trains.  No 

 6           Band-Aid fixes here.  Please, can you, I 

 7           know, have an idea of when do we have a 

 8           little bit of an idea that this could happen?  

 9           Are you happy about the property that we're 

10           securing it with the MTA?  So Ken.

11                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  First of all, 

12           you've been a great leader on this issue, and 

13           I just want to acknowledge the spirit of 

14           collaboration.  I spoke to County Executive 

15           Romaine yesterday on my way up and just 

16           touched base with him.

17                  The reason that that site that you 

18           mentioned is important is that it is the best 

19           opportunity to create a yard.  And a yard is 

20           the precondition -- we see this on the 

21           different branches again and again.  A yard 

22           is a precondition for the possibility of 

23           growing service.  So it is the necessary 

24           first step.


                                                                   71

 1                  So we have focused, as you and the 

 2           town and others brought it to our attention, 

 3           on the possible acquisition of that site.  

 4           There's an agreement, it's being subject to 

 5           all the lawyering and, you know, there's all 

 6           kinds of little issues.  We're going to keep 

 7           working at it and try to move forward as best 

 8           we can.  I don't know everything about those 

 9           specifics, but I do know that we have an 

10           agreement in principle, and we're 

11           collaborating with all the other agencies to 

12           try to work through the remaining issues.

13                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Well, again, I thank 

14           you.  We know how important it is.  We care 

15           about the environment and electrification 

16           with these old diesel trains.  So again, 

17           please, no battery trains.  Let's go and do 

18           it the right way the first time.

19                  You know, I got a lot of -- you know, 

20           questions have been asked about obviously the 

21           congestion pricing.  People are frightened to 

22           ride the trains, they really are.  They're 

23           going into Penn Station.  Can we -- we need 

24           to do a better job when you arrive into 


                                                                   72

 1           Penn Station with the homeless situation.  

 2           Can you please elaborate on what's being done 

 3           and --

 4                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Listen, you and I 

 5           should take a walk together through Penn, 

 6           because I'm actually pleased with the 

 7           progress that's been made.  No secret there 

 8           was some elected officials held a press 

 9           conference two years ago about, you know, 

10           Penn didn't feel welcoming and safe.  And 

11           there is a -- there has been a ton of police 

12           activity to change that.  The MTA leads this 

13           interagency group, you know, there's Amtrak 

14           police and so on.  We think we've made a lot 

15           of progress on Penn.  I want to take a walk 

16           with you so you feel that as well.

17                  SENATOR MATTERA:  I receive photos, 

18           just so you know, of the homeless that's -- 

19           that's -- you know, again, I feel sorry -- we 

20           have homeless shelters and everything like 

21           that.  What are we doing to have the homeless 

22           go into the homeless shelters?

23                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I mean, our police 

24           officers work closely with the social service 


                                                                   73

 1           agencies to get folks -- that is no place for 

 2           someone to shelter or to spend -- they need 

 3           to get into services and treatment, in some 

 4           cases, and we're aggressive about taking 

 5           action on that.

 6                  We -- one of the advantages of Penn is 

 7           with that brand-new concourse, it feels much 

 8           wider open and much less cramped and creepy 

 9           and disturbing.  And we're seeing the 

10           passenger -- Senator Mattera, the passenger 

11           surveys are showing a much higher level of 

12           confidence and customer satisfaction than in 

13           the past.  I want to take that walk with you.

14                  SENATOR MATTERA:  All right.  Let's do 

15           some better advertising, then, to show the 

16           confidence.  I don't see that.  And actually, 

17           I was at a meeting -- get it out there, 

18           commercials, do something so people feel 

19           comfortable to ride our rail systems.

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  You bet.

21                  SENATOR MATTERA:  You know, and I know 

22           my colleagues did an amazing job speaking 

23           about the fare evasions, stuff like that.  

24           Did anybody look into Switzerland and South 


                                                                   74

 1           Korea, their fare evasions, what they've done 

 2           to put a system in place that's been working?  

 3           Have you been looking over to other countries 

 4           or other places that this issue is happening, 

 5           because --

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah, you're 

 7           absolutely right.  We need to look at 

 8           technology, we need to look at, you know, 

 9           management.  But we also need to work on 

10           educating New Yorkers, and that starts with 

11           kids in school who are routinely -- I see it 

12           all the time -- they have a MetroCard in 

13           their pocket given to them by the school, we 

14           have all these DOE MetroCards, and yet they 

15           jump the turnstile or go through the gate 

16           with pals.

17                  We have to get those kids at that 

18           moment and educate them about -- and the 

19           ideas we're working on is getting them onto 

20           OMNY, because they've all got their phones, 

21           and make it easy so they don't have this 

22           separate fare medium of a MetroCard.  So 

23           we're going to get it on the phone, get it on 

24           the -- and we're working with Chancellor 


                                                                   75

 1           Banks and the DOE to educate those kids and 

 2           make sure they don't get criminalized by 

 3           having a fare evasion misjudgment.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Thank you.

 6                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Thank you.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay, next we 

 8           have Member Simone, please.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN SIMONE:  Good morning.  

10           Thank you, Chairman.  How you doing, Janno?  

11                  I have three questions.  What effect 

12           has planning for congestion pricing had on 

13           the MTA's capital plan for increasing 

14           accessibility by prioritizing elevators on 

15           23rd Street, where, of the five stations 

16           along that street, only one has an elevator 

17           on Park Avenue South.  And to greatly improve 

18           ridership, particularly on Eighth Avenue, 

19           which is near one of the largest NORCs. 

20                  And secondly, train derailments have 

21           raised concerns, clearly.  What measures has 

22           the MTA taken to assure present and future 

23           riders of the safety and reliability of the 

24           system, especially as we want to attract new 


                                                                   76

 1           transit riders after congestion pricing 

 2           begins?  Which I'm a big supporter of, 

 3           congestion pricing.

 4                  And thirdly, how would proposals to 

 5           increase housing production near transit 

 6           stations impact the MTA, and how is housing 

 7           growth studied in relation to future 

 8           operational and capital costs?

 9                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Okay.  You asked 

10           some -- a few questions.  I'll start with the 

11           ADA.

12                  Never before has the MTA built 

13           accessibility as fast as we're doing right 

14           now.  Yesterday the Rudin Center came out 

15           with a report and they lauded what we've been 

16           doing as we picked up the pace.  It's four 

17           times the prior pace.  We did 27 stations 

18           since 2020.  No one's ever done anything that 

19           fast.  We've got 41 under construction right 

20           now.  We're going to finish 70 as part of 

21           this capital program.  

22                  We settled the litigation with the 

23           disability groups, which has been of long 

24           standing.  And what they -- what we committed 


                                                                   77

 1           to do, what they wanted, they said, Just keep 

 2           going at this pace.  That's what the 

 3           disability community wanted.

 4                  So the selection of stations is done, 

 5           with a lot of different variables.  We should 

 6           go talk about the specific stations that you 

 7           have in mind.  But it is done neutrally to 

 8           make sure that people are as -- you know, 

 9           people are no more than two stations away 

10           from an ADA-accessible station.  There's a 

11           lot of input from the disability groups that 

12           looks at ridership and so on.  

13                  But we ought to talk about the 

14           stations.  I know that Penn South Station is 

15           a -- you know, one of the biggest NORCs 

16           around.  So let's talk about that.

17                  The second question, the question 

18           about housing production.  Listen, we have 

19           the capacity -- New York is -- the housing 

20           growth that has been talked about at the 

21           state level, at least the city portion of it, 

22           we have plenty of room in the system to 

23           accommodate that.  And especially with the 

24           improvements to signaling and the capacity 


                                                                   78

 1           growth, we can accomplish without -- even 

 2           without building new subway lines, which 

 3           we're doing some of.  So I'm not concerned 

 4           about that.  

 5                  What we're doing is in the suburbs, 

 6           where we have great big parking lots, we are 

 7           working with the Executive on are there 

 8           opportunities for taking a portion, for 

 9           example, and building structure parking, like 

10           we did in Westbury or like we did in 

11           Harrison, so that you have -- you keep the 

12           amount of parking, but then you have a site 

13           to do a massive housing expansion.  That's 

14           the model that we're pursuing --

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

16                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  -- it's working 

17           very well, and we're seeing other 

18           opportunities in Long Island Rail 

19           Road/Metro-North territory.  But I ran out of 

20           time to answer your third question.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN SIMONE:  Yeah, thank you.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  No 

23           more time.  But you can always respond in 

24           writing, and we'll share it with everyone.  


                                                                   79

 1           Because we want all your answers.

 2                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Good.  Will do.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 4                  Senator John Liu.

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  We'll get to the -- 

 6           I promise, Mr. Simone, we'll get to the 

 7           derailments at some point.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN SIMONE:  Thank you, 

 9           Mr. Chair.

10                  SENATOR LIU:  Thank you, Madam Chair.  

11           And thanks to the MTA team for joining us 

12           this morning.

13                  How are we doing on the 2024 capital 

14           plan?  Meaning 2020-2024 capital plan?  It's 

15           2024.

16                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  So you know 

17           this well.  I said in my testimony we did an 

18           average of $9 billion a year in contract 

19           commitments.  It would have been over 

20           10 billion if we hadn't had a delay due to 

21           congestion pricing of that $2 billion A Train 

22           resignaling project.  I am, you know, really 

23           burned about this --

24                  SENATOR LIU:  Well, all right, let me 


                                                                   80

 1           be a little quicker here.  I think your CFO 

 2           had given me the heads-up before this hearing 

 3           that your $30 billion contract you had out of 

 4           $54 billion.

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.

 6                  SENATOR LIU:  So what has been 

 7           contracted?

 8                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, we could go 

 9           through it.  It's a ton of ADA stations, 

10           zero --

11                  SENATOR LIU:  Okay, ADA stations, 

12           which were just shy of $10 billion?

13                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Okay.

14                  SENATOR LIU:  What about bus 

15           procurement?  How many buses have we gotten 

16           out of the 2500 new buses that were supposed 

17           to be bought?

18                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I'm going to have 

19           to give you an IOU of specific numbers.  But, 

20           you know, there's --

21                  SENATOR LIU:  Well, I'm not asking for 

22           an exact number.  Like how, roughly, do -- 

23           the MTA was supposed to buy 2500 new buses.  

24           They would buy 500 new buses?  They would buy 


                                                                   81

 1           2,000 new buses?  They would buy any new 

 2           buses?

 3                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  We have bought new 

 4           buses.

 5                  Do you want to talk about it?

 6                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  We certainly 

 7           bought new buses, and we'll get you the exact 

 8           number.  But we are spending -- well, 

 9           respectfully, we're spending lots on buying 

10           new buses --

11                  (Overtalk.)

12                  SENATOR LIU:  The reason why I asked 

13           about the buses --

14                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  -- 

15           infrastructure to ensure that those new buses 

16           that are electric in particular --

17                  SENATOR LIU:  The reason why I asked 

18           about the buses is there doesn't seem to be a 

19           whole lot of attention put on buses.  I mean, 

20           your testimony so far has focused on really 

21           important things -- the subways, the commuter 

22           rails.  But very little mention of bus 

23           service, which is clearly needed in large 

24           parts of the city, particularly in what are 


                                                                   82

 1           called the outer boroughs -- or the better 

 2           boroughs, as Chair Comrie likes to talk about 

 3           them.

 4                  There needs to be more attention paid 

 5           on buses.

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So the one thing I 

 7           would say is that unlike prior MTAs, when we 

 8           said we were going to redesign the entire bus 

 9           system of Queens, which serves more people 

10           than virtually any other county in the 

11           United States, we said we wouldn't constrain 

12           it by cost, we're going to spend more money 

13           on it.  

14                  And we've done that, in collaboration 

15           with the community in an unprecedented way 

16           that was acknowledged by --

17                  SENATOR LIU:  Let's use the Queens bus 

18           redesign as an example.

19                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Good.

20                  SENATOR LIU:  I mean, how much more 

21           resource are you putting into bus service in 

22           Queens, as an example?

23                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Twenty to 

24           30 million a year.


                                                                   83

 1                  SENATOR LIU:  Thirty million 

 2           dollars more per year.  

 3                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Twenty to 30 a 

 4           year.  It hasn't --

 5                  SENATOR LIU:  In operating the buses.

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.

 7                  SENATOR LIU:  All right.  That's a 

 8           good start.

 9                  And then how is the free bus program 

10           doing?  How is the ridership on the free bus 

11           program, the bus pilots?

12                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Look, like I said, 

13           it's sort of premature to --

14                  (Overtalk.)

15                  SENATOR LIU:  You need six more 

16           months?

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  No, you gave us six 

18           more months.  And we're going to give you the 

19           answer in the exact time frame and process 

20           that you laid out for us.

21                  SENATOR LIU:  My three months -- my 

22           three minutes is out.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

24                  SENATOR LIU:  Can you send a letter 


                                                                   84

 1           about how many buses have been procured so 

 2           far.

 3                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Absolutely.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 5           sir.

 6                  The next member to ask a question is 

 7           Member Alvarez.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ:  Thank you, 

 9           Mr. Chairman.  

10                  It is my understanding that the MTA 

11           will be surveying riders on the fare-free 

12           routes about the quality of life.  If this is 

13           true, what questions are being asked?

14                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  We absolutely 

15           will be surveying our riders.  I think in the 

16           legislation that you all passed it was 

17           specific about finding out who our riders are 

18           taking that free bus, why they are -- are 

19           they new riders, are they taking more trips 

20           or is it just their normal trip -- and then 

21           are there fare evasion impacts, as was asked 

22           by one of your colleagues, on other routes as 

23           well.

24                  So we'll be both getting qualitative 


                                                                   85

 1           and quantitative data.  As the chair 

 2           mentioned, we're required to run that pilot 

 3           up to six to 12 months.  We are in Month 4.5, 

 4           I think, right now, or 5, so we still have 

 5           some data left to collect.

 6                  (Overtalk.)

 7                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Shanifah Rieara 

 8           does -- Shanifah Rieara runs customer 

 9           service.  We do major surveys of the entire 

10           system twice a year, and slightly smaller 

11           ones every month.  So we're in the customer 

12           survey business every day, all day.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ:  You made some 

14           statement earlier that the CityTicket has 

15           been successful and increased accessibility 

16           and ridership, right?  Do you have a specific 

17           breakdown by station for how the CityTicket 

18           program is being utilized, specifically in 

19           the Bronx?

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I -- I didn't -- 

21           can you clarify?  I didn't understand it.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ:  You mentioned 

23           today, right, that the CityTicket has been 

24           successfully increased, right?


                                                                   86

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yes.  Yes.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ:  Do you have a 

 3           breakdown by station specifically in the 

 4           Bronx?

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I don't have a 

 6           breakdown by station.  But what you're 

 7           talking about -- thank you for mentioning 

 8           it -- is that we have in effect cut the fare 

 9           for in-New York City commuter rail travel, 

10           Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North, by 

11           about -- more than a third, close to 

12           40 percent.  So people are paying five bucks 

13           to ride.  They're saving a lot of time.  And 

14           we're seeing a lot of uptake.  

15                  But we'll give you a 

16           station-by-station breakdown.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ:  Thank you.

18                  So how often does the MTA inspect the 

19           infrastructure?

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Depends on what 

21           type of infrastructure.

22                  Rich?

23                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  At least for 

24           New York City Transit, we walk all the track 


                                                                   87

 1           at least twice a week.  It's a federal 

 2           railroad standard, so that is applicable to 

 3           the railroads, but at New York City Transit 

 4           we've adopted that.

 5                  For other switch points or others that 

 6           are used more frequently, we will also 

 7           inspect them more frequently.  But it's at 

 8           least twice a week for our track.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ:  Are those 

10           incidents of inspection available for the 

11           public?

12                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Are they -- 

13           well, the actual inspection reports available 

14           to the public?

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ:  Yeah, the 

16           report.  The inspection report.  

17                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  No, we don't 

18           provide inspection reports available to the 

19           public, no.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ:  So in 

21           May 2023 -- I have 15 more seconds -- the 

22           New York State Comptroller reported that the 

23           New York State funds that we, the 

24           Legislature, appropriate will create an open 


                                                                   88

 1           door for the MTA to ease debt and build 

 2           stronger future budgets.  Has this been the 

 3           case?  What can the MTA do better?

 4                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Many ways.  But 

 5           I'll have to answer you another time.

 6                  (Laughter.)

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 8           folks.  Thank you.

 9                  Senator?

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator Brad 

11           Hoylman-Sigal.

12                  SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:  Thank you, 

13           Madam Chair.

14                  Good to see everyone this morning.  

15                  I want to echo my colleague 

16           Assemblymember Simone's request for a 

17           timeline for the 23rd Street elevator project 

18           that we hope we can get on the books.  

19                  But I want to ask you about the 

20           congestion pricing lawsuit against New York 

21           by New Jersey.  And as you know, we called 

22           out the judge, who had political conflicts in 

23           that case, and forced him to recuse himself.  

24           And now I think it's flipped to at least 


                                                                   89

 1           three other judges at this point.

 2                  You know, it was Governor Murphy 

 3           himself who said he would fix New Jersey 

 4           Transit or die trying.  Can you give us an 

 5           update and what your understanding is at this 

 6           point regarding New Jersey's lawsuit?

 7                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah, well, Phil 

 8           Murphy said he was going to fix New Jersey 

 9           Transit if it kills him, and I'm not sure -- 

10           he's not dying, and I'm not even sure if he's 

11           trying.

12                  New York and New Jersey are not that 

13           different.  We have 80 percent -- both of us 

14           have transit commuters.  You and the Governor 

15           have invested in transit.  We have a robust 

16           capital program, and you took on that fiscal 

17           cliff last year and the rest of the country 

18           is just waking up to the fact -- the 

19           operating budget deficits in New Jersey, they 

20           have not addressed it.

21                  So it is disappointing that a governor 

22           that prided himself on Al Gore's endorsement 

23           has left New Jersey Transit unfunded, for 

24           reasons we don't fully understand.  


                                                                   90

 1           Thirty-plus New Jersey environmental 

 2           organizations have come in an amicus brief 

 3           supporting the MTA and the federal government 

 4           against New Jersey's own lawsuit.  And 

 5           instead of investing in transit, for reasons 

 6           none of us understand, they've got a 

 7           $2 billion turnpike widening project that 

 8           will just pump more cars to the 

 9           Holland Tunnel, which has no more capacity.  

10           So they're creating a big old parking lot on 

11           their side of the river.  

12                  This is a mystery.  The lawsuit -- the 

13           substance of the lawsuit is kind of 

14           frivolous, honestly.  The -- you know, 

15           there's black-letter law that a 4,000-page, 

16           four-year environmental study approved by the 

17           federal government is a pretty strong case in 

18           that.  And the constitutional stuff that 

19           they're trying to add is kind of frivolous.  

20           How can they toll the New Jersey Turnpike and 

21           the Garden State Parkway, collect 40 percent 

22           of that money from out-of-staters, but we 

23           can't toll our own roads?  That's a 

24           fundamental sovereignty issue I hope the 


                                                                   91

 1           Legislature recognizes.

 2                  SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:  Thank you.

 3                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So we're 

 4           disappointed.

 5                  SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:  I hope one of 

 6           my colleagues asks about the New York Post 

 7           report that shows that Penn Station fixes 

 8           could avoid the $17 billion if the transit 

 9           agencies actually worked together.  I'd like 

10           your comment.  Maybe Senator Krueger will be 

11           asking that.

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  He'll have to 

13           follow up with you in writing after the 

14           hearing, Senator.  Thank you.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

16           Giglio.

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Good morning.

18                  So the Hampton Jitney is a private bus 

19           company in my district that transports 

20           500,000 passengers a year to and from 

21           New York City.  Right now the rate is $40 for 

22           a one-way ticket.  There's concern that the 

23           cost of congestion pricing tolls will add 

24           significant costs to the company, which will 


                                                                   92

 1           then be passed on to those who use this bus 

 2           service for transportation.  

 3                  So my question for you is, isn't it 

 4           true that those riding buses are already 

 5           doing their part to reduce congestion in 

 6           New York City?  Number one.

 7                  And, you know, each Hampton Jitney 

 8           trip has the potential to take more than 

 9           50 cars off the road.  Studies have 

10           repeatedly shown that motor coaches are the 

11           most fuel-efficient, least carbon-polluting 

12           form of mass transit per passenger.  So why 

13           are they now going to be forced to pay extra?

14                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Okay.  So the 

15           process the Legislature set up called for us 

16           to have a third-party board develop these 

17           toll structure proposals.  And what they said 

18           is all mass transit buses would qualify for 

19           an exemption.  I don't know if the Hampton 

20           Jitney technically has been included in that; 

21           I'll look into it.  

22                  But the recommendation was I think to 

23           do what you are talking about, which is to 

24           have mass -- buses that are functioning as 


                                                                   93

 1           mass transit be exempt from the congestion 

 2           pricing toll.  I don't know whether in the 

 3           discussions that have taken place so far a 

 4           private operation, you know, to a luxury 

 5           destination like the Hamptons is -- has been 

 6           determined to be a mass transit bus within 

 7           the definition.  I'll have to get back to you 

 8           on that.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Yeah, because I 

10           believe it was only for bus companies that 

11           have contracts with the municipalities or 

12           with government agencies.  So if they don't 

13           have a specific contract for that trip into 

14           New York City, then they're saying that the 

15           way it reads right now, they would not be 

16           exempt.  

17                  So it's -- it would be good to get 

18           clarification in the budget for those 

19           exemptions, especially with the Governor's 

20           proposal in the State of the State to provide 

21           housing around bus stations -- I mean, around 

22           train stations, which could become a severe 

23           parking problem if all of these riders, 

24           500,000 a year, are forced to park at the 


                                                                   94

 1           Ronkonkoma Hub and then take the train into 

 2           the city.

 3                  And there are many housing proposals 

 4           around that hub, as you are aware.

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  Okay.  Well, 

 6           we'll look into it.  But I think you were -- 

 7           we both understand that the goal we heard 

 8           from this TMRB was let's make sure that mass 

 9           transit buses are exempt.  I don't know about 

10           the Hamptons bus, whether that's in the same 

11           category.  We'll check it out.  

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  And how are 

13           collections with ADLs going for people that 

14           are riding the train that do not have a 

15           ticket, that do not have identification --

16                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  The short answer, 

17           because time's running out, is lousy, which 

18           is why we're changing --

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  -- we're changing 

21           the system to give real summonses for people 

22           who fare evade on the commuter rail.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Senator.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.


                                                                   95

 1                  Senator Julia Salazar.

 2                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Thank you for your 

 3           testimony.

 4                  So my understanding is that the MTA 

 5           was only able to spend $6 billion total in 

 6           capital projects in 2022.  How does this 

 7           compare -- and I understand you mentioned in 

 8           your testimony that MTA is rolling out 

 9           capital projects faster than ever before, and 

10           that's great.  But how does that compare to 

11           progress that was made on MTA capital 

12           projects in 2023?

13                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So what happened 

14           was -- and you all know this, but we had to 

15           slow down the capital program during COVID 

16           because we didn't know if we were going to 

17           have to cannibalize the capital program to 

18           keep the lights on and the service running.  

19           This was all done very openly.

20                  So the result was that we had fewer 

21           projects underway than we would have 

22           otherwise.  The first year and a half of the 

23           current capital program was suppressed 

24           because of COVID and that uncertainty.  Once 


                                                                   96

 1           we knew we were getting the money from 

 2           Washington and we could spend the capital 

 3           program like crazy, off we went.  That's the 

 4           answer.  We spent mostly federal money, which 

 5           was a smaller part than we would have liked.  

 6           We didn't spend the state money as much.

 7                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Were you able to 

 8           increase spending on capital projects in 

 9           2023?

10                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  So what 

11           happened -- I'm going fast -- is we ramped up 

12           quickly, which is we're having -- the last 

13           couple of years we've had 9 billion a year on 

14           average.  We would have been, as I said, 

15           closer to 11 but for some of the congestion 

16           pricing related suppression of projects.

17                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Thank you.

18                  And I know you spoke already about the 

19           zero-emission hydrogen fuel cell buses.  How 

20           exactly does the MTA track and report on its 

21           progress when it comes to achieving climate 

22           and environmental goals?

23                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, we -- what 

24           we've done is in addition -- I mean, let's 


                                                                   97

 1           just all stipulate that mass transit is the 

 2           antidote to climate change.  It's 

 3           counterintuitive, but New York region is the 

 4           greenest urban area in the United States 

 5           because we're a mass transit region.

 6                  But we also have made a commitment to, 

 7           by 2040, 85 percent reduction in our 

 8           operating climate change impacts, and to 

 9           become that much more efficient.  So we can 

10           track our progress on that goal.  I'll have 

11           to get back to you on the specifics.

12                  Rich, anything you want to add on 

13           that?

14                  That's what we're doing.  We're using 

15           cleaner materials, we're using different 

16           technologies, all in an effort to reduce our 

17           operations impact on the climate.

18                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Great.  And in the 

19           environmental assessment for congestion 

20           pricing, there were projections of, just in 

21           certain communities, increased truck traffic 

22           right?  Not overall, of course, but increased 

23           impact on certain communities and discussion 

24           of mitigation plans to try to address that.


                                                                   98

 1                  How are -- how is the coordination of 

 2           that mitigation plan going or anticipated to 

 3           go?  And is there a status update that you 

 4           could give us on that?

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 6           Senator.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 8                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Sorry.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  He'll have to get 

10           back to you.

11                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  At the break.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member Bores.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  First of all, I 

14           just want to thank you for running pilots, 

15           whether that's the fare gates or the fixed 

16           fences.  Study after study shows when 

17           government does small pilots and learns from 

18           them and then changes it, it saves money in 

19           the long run, even if it comes with social 

20           media embarrassment.  And I want to thank you 

21           for doing that; encourage you to keep doing 

22           it in the future.

23                  On the fixed fences -- which again we 

24           talked about last year, you committed to 


                                                                   99

 1           looking at, and now we have a pilot up, so 

 2           thank you for that as well.  How will you be 

 3           evaluating that pilot?  What sort of metrics 

 4           are you looking at?  And when can we expect 

 5           results?

 6                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Yeah, thank 

 7           you.  So I think a few things.

 8                  You know, we're picking stations where 

 9           we have significant camera coverage so we can 

10           observe, you know, passenger behavior.  So 

11           passenger behavior will be one.  

12                  We'll obviously be doing surveys.  As 

13           the chair mentioned, we do monthly surveys 

14           with subway customers, a small amount, and 

15           then pretty deep dives every six months to 

16           see what folks are saying.

17                  You know, the goal is to make folks 

18           feel safer, right?  And that's -- and to do 

19           it very quickly.  I think our ambition for 

20           platform screen doors, while we still have 

21           it, is much more technically complicated and 

22           clearly more expensive.  So if this works, I 

23           would expect, you know, that we'd be able to 

24           roll it out in a number of other stations.  


                                                                   100

 1                  But right now our commitment is four 

 2           stations.  We've done the one.  I think 

 3           Clark Street is being installed this 

 4           weekend --

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Sorry, if I could 

 6           just move on.

 7                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Sure.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  But the perception 

 9           of safety being the main metric.

10                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah, that's the 

11           real goal, is that people feel safer on the 

12           platforms.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Great.

14                  So you rightly point out in your 

15           testimony we shouldn't judge this MTA by the 

16           old MTA.  Your team provided a great 

17           cost-containment study comparing what the MTA 

18           is doing versus other countries, which was 

19           really helpful, and I encourage you as much 

20           as possible what you can put out there.

21                  There were a number of useful metrics:  

22           ADA accessibility costs per station, costs 

23           per track mile, costs per power station, per 

24           rider.  Was that a one-time study?  Or do you 


                                                                   101

 1           regularly track those over time?

 2                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  We don't -- right 

 3           now, to be honest, that was a one-time study 

 4           to try to do -- what I was saying before is 

 5           let's stop talking about East Side Access, 

 6           which was designed when George Pataki and 

 7           Al D'Amato were making decisions about the 

 8           MTA's future, and start to show what we're 

 9           doing now.

10                  But it's a legitimate point.  We can 

11           continue to provide those on a regular basis.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  That would be 

13           super-helpful.  Whatever you can do and 

14           follow up on it of how that's changed would 

15           help us just make the point that, hey, cost 

16           containment is going in the right direction.  

17           So thank you.

18                  And then lastly I want to follow up on 

19           Assemblymember Simone's question on ADA 

20           accessibility.  I know you said the 

21           disability community is saying "go at the 

22           same speed."  My mom has multiple sclerosis; 

23           I know many in the disability community not 

24           saying "go at the same speed," but instead "I 


                                                                   102

 1           want this a lot quicker."  

 2                  You're doing a great job accelerating 

 3           it.  Could you commit, if you got all the 

 4           funding that we're talking about, central 

 5           business tolling in it, to move it from 2055 

 6           to a little bit sooner?

 7                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, let's look at 

 8           it together.  If you want to discuss this, if 

 9           we're serious about it, we'll take a look at 

10           it.  I mean, we have to manage the number of 

11           outages and the impacts to service as well as 

12           everything else.

13                  So let's talk about it.  But we -- we 

14           want to keep up that commitment.  And if we 

15           can go faster, that's great.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Thank you.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

18           Mr. Chair.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  (Mic 

20           off; inaudible.)  Oh, I'm not on. 

21                  If you're sitting at one of the chairs 

22           without a microphone, if people usually who 

23           are on -- near the ends on either side, would 

24           get up, let you use their chair while you ask 


                                                                   103

 1           your question, and then you can trade back.  

 2           Thank you.

 3                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you very much.

 4                  And thank you for being here.

 5                  As you know, I represent the 

 6           Hudson Line, which is an incredibly important 

 7           part of the MTA region, and with the increase 

 8           of severe storms that we've seen, there's I 

 9           think been an uptick in the need for 

10           resiliency and reconstruction.

11                  I thank you for always the quick 

12           attention to that matter on the Hudson Line, 

13           but I'd love to know how much money is 

14           dedicated for resiliency, especially on the 

15           lines that are right next to the 

16           Hudson River.

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Honestly, what we 

18           did in -- the first phase of resiliency was 

19           focused on coastal surge.  You know, after we 

20           all learned from Superstorm Sandy, we spent 

21           $7 billion protecting the things that were 

22           most subject to coastal surge.  

23                  But now we -- because of these crazy 

24           weather events, again, and the continuing 


                                                                   104

 1           impacts of climate change, we know the 

 2           threats are more than just coastal surges -- 

 3           it's torrential rainfall, it's extreme heat, 

 4           it's sea level rise.  And the Hudson Line is 

 5           in the cross-hairs.

 6                  So if you look through this very 

 7           substantial 20-year needs assessment, backed 

 8           up by the big old appendix, the resiliency 

 9           gets its own treatment, and Hudson Line, 

10           again, again is the highlight in the next 

11           capital program we have to find a way to 

12           address.  Because the Hudson Line is steps 

13           from the river --

14                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Feet.

15                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  And meantime the 

16           embankments are steep and the torrential 

17           rainfall keeps creating mud slides, and we're 

18           losing the Hudson Line.  We've gotta do it.

19                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Right.  Thank you.  

20           I appreciate that.

21                  You say in the next capital plan.  

22           What would that look like?  Can you give -- I 

23           mean, what is the scale or what's an -- or 

24           what's the plan --


                                                                   105

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I'm not ready to 

 2           talk about the dollars.  But you have to -- 

 3           you're talking about basic structure.  It's 

 4           not a matter of like, you know, messing 

 5           around with ballast and the track.  You're 

 6           talking about something along the lines of 

 7           maybe even necessarily as ambitious as what 

 8           they're doing on East River Park, where you 

 9           have to, you know, raise the level and 

10           stabilize.

11                  We also have to go out and look at all 

12           those privately owned embankments and slopes 

13           to see if they're being properly maintained.  

14           That seems to have been one issue in one of 

15           those mud slides.

16                  So unfortunately we had to get really 

17           good at cleaning them up.  I just want credit 

18           for the Metro-North personnel and the C&D 

19           personnel who keep restoring service on a 

20           dime.  But in the meantime we need a strategy 

21           for attacking this problem.  It's not going 

22           away.

23                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you.  No, and 

24           they've been great, and the attention to the 


                                                                   106

 1           matter is quick and swift.  And I think, you 

 2           know, it harkens back to the importance of 

 3           that line and connection that we have for our 

 4           region.

 5                  So just to be clear, I mean, I think 

 6           we're going to need a significant investment, 

 7           I mean just even for the Hudson Line itself, 

 8           to make sure that that can continue to run.  

 9           Because without it, we won't -- I mean, the 

10           line will be out of service in a very short 

11           period of time.  Is that fair?

12                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah, I can't 

13           project, you know, when mud slides are going 

14           to happen, but we all know that is a must-do.  

15           This is a must-do.

16                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you.

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Along with 

18           investments in other parts of Metro-North -- 

19           I want to say Senator Mayer's in my eyesight, 

20           and others.  You know, we -- there's 

21           fundamental structure on Metro-North that 

22           needs to be attacked through our capital -- 

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

24           Sorry.


                                                                   107

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 2           sir. 

 3                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you very much.  

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 5                  Assembly.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

 7           Shimsky, please.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Thank you very 

 9           much, Mr. Chairman.

10                  And yes, Chairman, we're going to be 

11           tag-teaming the Hudson Line issues. 

12                  As you know, we are already having 

13           short-term issues with retaining wall 

14           integrity along the entire line, pretty much.  

15           We're looking at a point where the line will, 

16           we can predict, be underwater certainly in my 

17           adult children's lifetimes.

18                  How are we envisioning the process to 

19           get the short-term and the long-term needs 

20           planned out and put in the capital plan?  

21           What's the time frame, not just on what we 

22           have to do but on the planning process 

23           itself?  And can we take some of that 

24           3 percent in cost savings and invest in a 


                                                                   108

 1           really robust and prompt planning process to 

 2           make sure that we can save the Hudson Line?

 3                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So let me assure 

 4           you, again, if you look at the document, 

 5           there's no single project that -- in the 

 6           resiliency area that gets more attention than 

 7           the Hudson Line.

 8                  So the work is already going on.  The 

 9           planning team that produced this incredible 

10           piece of work is actually engaged in what you 

11           want -- what you're asking about, which is 

12           what are the initial investments we need to 

13           do, what is the phasing strategy.  

14                  In the meantime, we need to continue 

15           to invest in the Hudson Line because our 

16           friends in West of Hudson, West of Hudson, 

17           are subject to crummy New Jersey Transit 

18           service on the Port Jervis and the Pascack 

19           Valley Line, and we need the Hudson Line also 

20           to be able to accommodate them.  You know, 

21           Chairman Zebrowski is not here now, but he 

22           and I have talked about the need to make sure 

23           that people can go to Irvington and 

24           North White Plains and use those stations 


                                                                   109

 1           from West of Hudson as well.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Okay.  As I 

 3           said, there's nothing more important than 

 4           trying to keep our train system running.  And 

 5           to that point, one one of the new things that 

 6           people are talking about in terms of 

 7           infrastructure is "fix it first."  Which 

 8           means before we start expanding, we make sure 

 9           that everything else is in good shape.

10                  Where are we in terms of basic 

11           maintenance with things like tracks, 

12           elevators, stations and so on?

13                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, again, I'm 

14           not going to go through item by item.  But 

15           that's all enumerated, literally system by 

16           system, how much of those systems are in poor 

17           or marginal condition.  You know, I'm not 

18           going to go through it, but the one thing 

19           that I'm seeing is fundamental structure in 

20           some of the Metro-North territory, the 

21           platforms, 25, 30 years ago they built 

22           hollow-core platforms which are being 

23           compromised.  There's a lot of structural -- 

24           you know, a lot of concrete spall.  We can't 


                                                                   110

 1           spare the platforms.  We can't spare the 

 2           track.  We can't spare the signals.  That's 

 3           why 80 percent of our capital program is and 

 4           must remain in a state of good repair, on top 

 5           of all the good stuff we --

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 7           Mr. Chair.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Thank you.

 9                  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  It's amazing how 

11           fast three minutes is.

12                  Senator Weber.

13                  SENATOR WEBER:  Thank you, Chairwoman.

14                  And thank you for being here today.

15                  You know, I represent Rockland County 

16           and, you know, Rockland County residents have 

17           always felt like the other redheaded 

18           stepchild of the MTA.  And I'll explain why.

19                  You know, County Executive Ed Day, 

20           Assemblyman Zebrowski, now-Congressman 

21           Lawler, we always talk about the value gap, 

22           right, the $40 million value gap, as we call 

23           it, the amount of taxes and revenue that 

24           Rockland residents send up to the MTA versus 


                                                                   111

 1           the services that we get.  You know, we don't 

 2           have a one-seat ride into New York City, 

 3           which is extremely frustrating.  And then we 

 4           see the congestion pricing plan coming into 

 5           effect, and you know, we have a lot of 

 6           middle-class residents.  We have a tremendous 

 7           amount of cops, firefighters, schoolteachers, 

 8           senior citizens who go to see their doctors 

 9           in the city -- you know, people that can't 

10           afford and frankly can't, due to their 

11           scheduling, can't take the train into the 

12           city.  Because, you know, being a cop or a 

13           firefighter or a teacher, you know, they're 

14           in the city and coming out of the city at 

15           different times. 

16                  And for far too long the services out 

17           of Rockland have been really inconsistent, 

18           unreliable.  And obviously, as mentioned 

19           earlier by my colleagues here, they've been 

20           unsafe.  You know, especially when you get 

21           into the city, whether it's real or 

22           perceived -- and I know you had indicated 

23           that a lot of the crime has gone down in the 

24           city areas, and I'll take you at that word 


                                                                   112

 1           and I hope that's the case.  And if so, I 

 2           hope that trend continues.

 3                  But what we as Rocklanders see on TV 

 4           every day and experience going into the city, 

 5           it's still an unsafe ride into the city.

 6                  So I would like you to just maybe 

 7           speak to what I talked about, and speak to 

 8           the fact of are there any plans in the 

 9           future, in the foreseeable future, to improve 

10           the lines and improve the stations in 

11           Rockland County, knowing that we're going to 

12           have this congestion pricing that's going to 

13           go in and we still have that, you know, not a 

14           one-seat ride into the city.

15                  So I know I've explained a lot, but 

16           maybe you can just address this.

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah, understood.  

18           And listen, we're acutely sympathetic to the 

19           fact that Rockland County, the services that 

20           are West of Hudson -- I just talked about 

21           it -- Port Jervis and Pascack Valley Line are 

22           not first-class services.  It's run by 

23           New Jersey Transit.  I don't want to throw 

24           them under the bus more than I already have, 


                                                                   113

 1           but it's not where we would want our 

 2           customers to be, how our customers should be 

 3           treated.

 4                  We've been great supporters of -- if 

 5           they ever, you know, get done with the, you 

 6           know, many billions on Gateway, that they do 

 7           consider that Bergen Loop that would get a 

 8           connection into New York City.  I've been a 

 9           supporter of it and I've advocated for making 

10           sure that there is room kept in designs of a 

11           future Penn Station for additional direct 

12           service from those West of Hudson lines.

13                  In the meantime, you've heard me say 

14           it, we really want to improve connections 

15           from Rockland and West of Hudson into the 

16           Hudson Line, and we can talk more about it 

17           because we are passionate about that 

18           connection.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

20           sir.  Appreciate it.

21                  SENATOR WEBER:  Thank you.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member Simon.  

23           Jo Anne.  We're going to have to go to -- oh, 

24           there she is.  Okay, I'm sorry.  Go ahead, 


                                                                   114

 1           Jo Anne.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Thank you, 

 3           Mr. Chair.  You caught me mid-Tweet about the 

 4           J Train.  

 5                  (Laughter.)

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  It just so 

 7           happens. 

 8                  Thank you very much for your 

 9           testimony, Chair Lieber.

10                  I have a question for you -- a couple 

11           of questions for you.  But one is about 

12           congestion pricing and if the proposed fares 

13           go through the way they are, how will the MTA 

14           mitigate the likely path-finding through the 

15           neighborhoods to go over the Brooklyn or 

16           Manhattan bridges, which will have a lower 

17           toll than the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel?

18                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So because time is 

19           so short, I'm just going to say the incentive 

20           for toll shopping under the structures 

21           proposed by TMRB will be reduced.  So -- 

22           and -- no, it is.  Numerically, it's cut in 

23           half, right?  So --

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Reduced but --


                                                                   115

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  No, significantly 

 2           reduced.  And we're going to be cutting the 

 3           number of cars that are coming to New York.  

 4           So I -- respectfully, I don't -- you know, I 

 5           don't think it's a guarantee that there's 

 6           going to be more traffic through the 

 7           neighborhoods.  You and I are both 

 8           Brooklynites.  I don't think that with a 

 9           reduced incentive and a reduced number of 

10           cars, which is what's projected and intended, 

11           that there necessarily will be more impact on 

12           the neighborhoods.

13                  But you and I are going to talk about 

14           this and look at it, and there's going to be 

15           statistical evaluation up the wazoo.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Thank you.

17                  The other question I have is, as you 

18           know, we have a significant problem with 

19           subway flooding, and certainly in my district 

20           that happens quite frequently.  What is the 

21           MTA doing to work with the city with regard 

22           to the -- so the sewer capacity and the fact 

23           that things just bubble up and out.

24                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  No, I appreciate 


                                                                   116

 1           it.  Look, the MTA system pumps 14 million 

 2           gallons of water every day on a dry day, and 

 3           on these torrential rain days is pushing 

 4           20 million gallons of water. 

 5                  So we have a great system for clearing 

 6           water out of the subway.  The problem -- and 

 7           we also are working very closely with the 

 8           city to close up all the nooks and crannies 

 9           of how water gets in.  Obviously it starts 

10           with making sure the drains are clear.  And 

11           that, you know, the equipment for pumping is 

12           spread around to the right places and so on.  

13           We do that very, very well.

14                  But at the end of the day, when you 

15           have a major water reservoir being created, 

16           it's because the city sewer system can't 

17           release water quickly enough.  And we are 

18           urging them to find ways to do that, even 

19           specific locations like your neighborhood, 

20           like the West Side of Manhattan, some of Tony 

21           Simone's subway stations, which chronically 

22           fill up with water because of the storm sewer 

23           system of the city.  We want them to push the 

24           water out and get some mechanical support for 


                                                                   117

 1           moving the water out of the system.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Well, sign me up 

 3           to help.

 4                  And also a question about can we get a 

 5           York Street repair in the capital plan.  Very 

 6           important issue, York Street, because we have 

 7           one staircase, as you know.

 8                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I know all about 

 9           it, but I ran out of time.  We'll have to 

10           take that one offline.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Thank you.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

14                  Senator Ramos.

15                  SENATOR RAMOS:  Well, buenos dias.

16                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Buenos dias.

17                  SENATOR RAMOS:  I want to start by 

18           asking about casino revenue that's slated to 

19           begin in 2026.  And whether we're still on 

20           pace for that or if there have been any 

21           delays.

22                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Kevin?

23                  MTA CFO WILLENS:  Sure.  You know, we 

24           do have the casino revenues planned for 2026, 


                                                                   118

 1           even though MTA doesn't control that process.  

 2           And the State Gaming Commission I know put 

 3           out answers to all the questions, and 

 4           there's --

 5                  SENATOR RAMOS:  Well, the second round 

 6           of questions is going to be -- expected to be 

 7           done by the end of the month.

 8                  MTA CFO WILLENS:  Right.  And my 

 9           understanding is that the RFPs are expected 

10           to be received for the 11 proposers sometime 

11           by maybe the end of the year, early next 

12           year.

13                  SENATOR RAMOS:  Okay.  Well, thank 

14           you, that's an interesting timeline.

15                  Let me ask now, you know, during the 

16           last budget hearing I expressed my concern 

17           that MTA bathrooms were still closed, and you 

18           shared with me recently that there's been 

19           progress on this front.  Can you share how 

20           many are operational and what your plan is to 

21           make more operational in the future?

22                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Rich?

23                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Yeah, I'm happy 

24           to.  Listen, Senator, I don't have the exact 


                                                                   119

 1           number off the top of my head.  I think we 

 2           have about -- I'm sorry?

 3                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Eighty-eight.

 4                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Eighty-eight 

 5           bathrooms?  The 88 bathrooms -- and I think 

 6           it's actually more.  Maybe I haven't informed 

 7           the chair of that.  

 8                  We have a few more left that require, 

 9           let's just say, a lot of tender, loving care, 

10           which we are implementing now.  We wanted to 

11           make sure that the bathrooms were clean and 

12           welcoming to our customers.  I would say in 

13           my tour of them last year, that was not the 

14           case.  So we're really trying to be mindful 

15           of that.

16                  And then, as you know, to protect our 

17           workers and make sure they're clean, they're 

18           open for 12 hours; we close them for one hour 

19           in the midday so our employees can get in 

20           there and clean them.

21                  In terms of the future, we'll look to 

22           see, but our commitment was to reopen all 

23           that were closed during COVID, and that's our 

24           focus.  We're pretty close.


                                                                   120

 1                  SENATOR RAMOS:  And which ones are the 

 2           most popular?

 3                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Which ones are 

 4           the most popular?  I have not followed the 

 5           door meter as of late, but I think Flushing 

 6           in particular, in Queens, is one of the most 

 7           popular, if I recall.

 8                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I think it's a 

 9           question you know the answer to --

10                  SENATOR RAMOS:  I do.

11                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  It's 74th Street/ 

12           Roosevelt.

13                  SENATOR RAMOS:  It's 74th Street/ 

14           Roosevelt, that's right.

15                  Okay, let's switch gears to the two 

16           recent train derailments and the tragic death 

17           of a transit worker.  I want to ask how the 

18           MTA is actively addressing safety concerns in 

19           the aftermath of those incidents.

20                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  We're active, 

21           Senator.  A couple of things.  I mean, one 

22           is --

23                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  22nd.

24                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  -- 22nd.  So 


                                                                   121

 1           for the track worker, working closely with 

 2           the NTSB, who is working with us on that, 

 3           happy to talk to you offline on that one.

 4                  The first derailment was actually a 

 5           collision of two trains.  One was taken out 

 6           of service because it had been vandalized.  

 7           We make that move, that -- about 10 times a 

 8           day.  And so we need to get into that 

 9           specific issue, and I'm happy to talk offline 

10           about the --

11                  (Overtalk.)

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

13           Sorry.

14                  SENATOR RAMOS:  Is it possible to sign 

15           up for a second round?

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  No, there are no 

17           more rounds, sorry.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

19           Slater, please.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  Thank you very 

21           much.

22                  Thank you very much, Chairman, for 

23           being here and for all your hard work.  

24           Looking forward to seeing the Brewster Yard 


                                                                   122

 1           Campus continue to move forward.  I know that 

 2           your agency has been fantastic with that.

 3                  I represent Northern Westchester and 

 4           Putnam County.  And like Senator Weber said 

 5           before, what I hear most from my constituents 

 6           are concerns surrounding congestion pricing.  

 7           And I know I only have a few minutes, so I 

 8           just want to try to get some of these 

 9           questions out of the way as quickly as I can.

10                  Right now, is there a plan that is 

11           being considered for exceptions for police 

12           officers who commute into New York City?

13                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  That was not 

14           recommended by the TMRB.  They recommended no 

15           specific rifle shot for specific worthy 

16           populations, because that would push up the 

17           toll for everybody.  And they also thought it 

18           would just snowball and create more and more 

19           arguments.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  Understood.  

21                  So no -- so nothing for police, 

22           nothing for New York City firefighters, 

23           nothing for municipal workers.  My next-door 

24           neighbor works for New York City Sanitation.  


                                                                   123

 1           So he will not receive an exemption because 

 2           he's simply going to work.

 3                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  The -- remember 

 4           that 80-plus percent of the folks in 

 5           Westchester are taking mass transit.  So the 

 6           exclusive focus on folks who drive to the 

 7           Central Business District I just think is 

 8           misplaced, honestly.  But the answer is no, 

 9           there are no special-treatment exemptions 

10           that have been proposed for any one group of 

11           worthy population.

12                  What you all said, there's a 

13           disability exemption and there is a 

14           low-income.  So if any of those folks that 

15           you're talking about qualify for low-income.

16                  And of course people, municipal 

17           workers who work off-hours will have the 

18           benefit of it only being $3.75 in the 

19           overnights.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  And when you're 

21           implementing or planning on implementing 

22           congestion pricing, and we read articles -- 

23           like yesterday in Newsday there was one about 

24           how there is an estimated 224,000 MTA tolls 


                                                                   124

 1           per month that are being dodged from fake and 

 2           obstructed license plates.  How are we going 

 3           to avoid that type of gap with congestion 

 4           pricing when we're currently seeing it in the 

 5           system right now.

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, we've 

 7           actually brought down the number of 

 8           unbillable transactions by doing everything, 

 9           by making sure that the cameras pick up the 

10           license plates, that there are no duplicates 

11           in the system, people get the right bills, 

12           the right -- so we brought down the number of 

13           unbillables.  

14                  The one area that's going up is people 

15           covering their plates.  Which is why the 

16           Governor has proposed a new -- a regimen in 

17           the law that focuses on -- that creates real 

18           penalties.  

19                  If you're trying to defraud the public 

20           by covering your plate, and especially since 

21           we're seeing people rolling around in 

22           Porsches who are doing -- owe the public 

23           $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, they've got to 

24           come down.  We did twice as many 


                                                                   125

 1           interdictions on our bridges and tunnels as 

 2           we did the year before, and we're going to 

 3           keep at it.  Because that is a fundamental 

 4           unfairness.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  Thank you very 

 6           much, sir.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator Gonzalez.

 8                  SENATOR GONZALEZ:  (Mic off.)  Oh, now 

 9           we got it.  

10                  Great.  Hello.  Good morning.

11                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Hello, Senator.

12                  SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Definitely 

13           appreciate your time being here.  I'm excited 

14           about a lot of the improvements that you 

15           mentioned, as a straphanger my whole life.  

16           Definitely will be impacted in a 

17           three-borough district.  

18                  But today I wanted to talk a little 

19           bit more about fare evasion, because in your 

20           statement you mentioned that it's the single 

21           biggest threat to the health -- or fiscal 

22           health of the MTA.  

23                  So in the last year has fare evasion 

24           gone up, down, or has it stagnated?


                                                                   126

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So it's premature 

 2           for us to -- you know, we do this with a sort 

 3           of more and more specific sampling 

 4           methodology.  So I can't tell you exactly how 

 5           it's gone in the year.  

 6                  But when I made a speech about it two 

 7           years ago, it was going up fast, and last 

 8           year it was -- I think through the middle of 

 9           last year it was 700 million a year.  So it 

10           is a megaproblem that wasn't a megaproblem a 

11           couple of years ago.  A different scale of 

12           problem, I should say, a couple of years ago.

13                  SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Got it, yes.  So it 

14           seems like that's similar to the number you 

15           gave last year, which I think was 690 

16           million.  So maybe it's increased a little, 

17           or stagnated.  But what has increased, of 

18           course, since last year is the investment in 

19           surveillance and policing of our subway 

20           systems.  As you mentioned, we have had an 

21           increase in the number of cameras, over 

22           60,000 across our system.  

23                  We also have increased policing in 

24           subway systems, and reports show that last 


                                                                   127

 1           year alone, overtime for subway system 

 2           policing for the NYPD went up from 4 million 

 3           to 155 million.  That additional 150 million 

 4           only resulted in $104,000 recovered from fare 

 5           evasion.  Is that correct?

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  When that 

 7           point was made, it was misleading, because it 

 8           was as if all cops are doing with their 

 9           overtime is fare evasion for us, and that 

10           couldn't be less true.  What they're doing is 

11           policing the system.

12                  We're not in the fare evasion -- fare 

13           evasion is not our first priority.  Our first 

14           priority is stopping crime -- I mean, the 

15           NYPD is the executor, but for all of us the 

16           priority is stopping crime and making riders 

17           feel safe.  

18                  And you know what they tell us in 

19           every survey Shanifah does?  What do they 

20           tell us, Shanifah?

21                  MTA CCO RIEARA:  We get feedback from 

22           customers all the time about the importance 

23           of seeing a uniformed police officer, with 

24           every survey that we do, whether it's our 


                                                                   128

 1           customer -- biannual customer count or our 

 2           monthly poll survey.

 3                  SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Got it.

 4                  MTA CCO RIEARA:  But to sort of build 

 5           on that, we also --

 6                  SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Apologies, I only 

 7           have 30 seconds left.  

 8                  I'm curious about your AI surveillance 

 9           system.  So you've implemented AI in seven 

10           stations, expanding it to 30 to track subway 

11           riders.  Are you planning on sharing that 

12           data with the NYPD?  And can you commit that 

13           that system, which biometric surveillance 

14           systems have proven to be discriminatory, we 

15           promise that there will be no increase in 

16           automated bias?

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, we use -- we 

18           use AI not -- you know, not -- we don't have 

19           any facial recognition technology.  I think 

20           that's the key issue.

21                  What we're tryingt to do is to learn 

22           how riders are moving through the system and 

23           to serve them better, and have better 

24           operating systems.


                                                                   129

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 2           sir.  Thank you.

 3                  SENATOR GONZALEZ:  I would say 

 4           policing has many people --

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 6           Senator.

 7                  SENATOR GONZALEZ:  Thank you.  Thank 

 8           you.  

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

10           Darling.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING:  Chairman and 

12           team, thank you for your work and being here.  

13           I represent Nassau County, and I want to go 

14           on record and say that many Long Islanders 

15           have shared with me that they are vehemently 

16           against congestion pricing and they feel 

17           financially targeted by this policy.  Just 

18           wanted to go on record and say that.

19                  And in regards to the LIRR, I remember 

20           a time when I could transfer at Jamaica and 

21           the train was waiting right on the other side 

22           of the track for me, like clockwork.  And 

23           recently I had two experiences where I waited 

24           15 minutes for that connecting train, and one 


                                                                   130

 1           experience traveling from Albany where I had 

 2           about two minutes to run up a flight of 

 3           stairs with a suitcase and run across three 

 4           tracks to catch the train.  And I instantly 

 5           thought about our New Yorkers with 

 6           disabilities and how they would have had to 

 7           miss that and it would have been another 

 8           20 minutes added on to their trip in 

 9           inclement weather.

10                  So I just wanted to share those 

11           experiences and ask, how does the MTA plan to 

12           continue to address the issues that 

13           Long Islanders have concerns about, 

14           including, you know, reliability and cost, 

15           delays, with this proposed budget?

16                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Okay.  I think -- 

17           what I will tell you is we increased service 

18           by 41 percent and all of a sudden Long Island 

19           Rail Road ridership in the last year has 

20           surged, it's gone up dramatically.

21                  And we've also seen -- yes, there was 

22           a shakeout period on the new schedule because 

23           we were providing so much more service that 

24           clearly, from an operational standpoint, it 


                                                                   131

 1           took a little while to get settled.  But it 

 2           has settled down.  We have 94 -- 95 percent 

 3           on-time performance this year, and last year 

 4           it was just a tad under 94.  So we've gotten 

 5           back to the kind of performance that we want.  

 6                  The connection issue -- the idea is on 

 7           the inbound, most people -- if you're going 

 8           to Grand Central, even if you're going to 

 9           Penn or even Atlantic, there are such 

10           frequent trains that we're not trying to 

11           schedule timed connections anymore, because 

12           you cannot run 900 trains if you're waiting 

13           in the station to make time connections.

14                  On the outbound, though, the point 

15           that you make is legit, and we're trying to 

16           make sure that trains that operate 

17           infrequently towards the East End do have 

18           more robust connection periods so that nobody 

19           gets left behind standing in Jamaica for an 

20           hour.

21                  So that is a work in progress.  We've 

22           made progress on it, and we're going to keep 

23           at it.

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING:  Thank you.


                                                                   132

 1                  And just in regards to our New Yorkers 

 2           with disabilities -- like, you know, I am a 

 3           very active person, so travel is very easy 

 4           for me.  But on a day where, say, I don't 

 5           feel that active or someone did not have 

 6           those same abilities, I do not feel like the 

 7           Long Island Rail Road has yet reached the 

 8           level of accessibility that we would like to 

 9           see.

10                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, I'll just 

11           tell you that there's, you know, 110 stations 

12           out of 126 in the Long Island Rail Road -- 

13           no, 113 of 126 are accessible.  There's seven 

14           more that are under construction.  They're 

15           in -- most of those are in Southeast Queens.  

16           And so we're getting pretty close to 

17           100 percent ADA accessibility on Long Island 

18           Rail Road; I'm very proud of that.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING:  Thank you.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

21           Mr. Chairman.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  Next 

23           is Senator Mayer from Westchester.

24                  SENATOR MAYER:  Thank you.


                                                                   133

 1                  Thank you, Chairman.  Thank you for 

 2           being here.

 3                  Quick question about the toll rebate 

 4           under congestion pricing for those who use 

 5           the Henry Hudson Bridge.  When I voted for 

 6           congestion pricing in 2019, my recollection 

 7           is that Westchester, particularly 

 8           Southern Westchester drivers who use the 

 9           Henry Hudson Bridge, would be given the 

10           rebate for the toll on the Henry Hudson 

11           Bridge.  

12                  Now it appears it's limited to Bronx 

13           drivers exclusively.  Nothing against 

14           Bronx drivers, but there's a whole lot of 

15           people from Yonkers, Mount Vernon and 

16           Southern Westchester who use it every day.

17                  Is there any opportunity to revisit 

18           that issue?

19                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah, you -- 

20           respectfully, you guys are in control of 

21           that.  We're implementing what was in the 

22           statute, in the end.  So you're welcome to 

23           raise it, but it's -- I'm certain that we're 

24           implementing the statute as written.


                                                                   134

 1                  SENATOR MAYER:  Well, we'll go back 

 2           over the statute.  And I actually don't think 

 3           the statute reflects those language -- I 

 4           believe it is the understanding that occurred 

 5           later, and I'm asking whether it can be 

 6           revisited.

 7                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  We're always open 

 8           to discussions.  As was reported earlier, the 

 9           Outer Borough Transportation Account is now 

10           finally, you know, developing some capacity, 

11           so the Legislature is, you know, well within 

12           its rights to revisit what projects that 

13           money would be used for.

14                  SENATOR MAYER:  I think it was -- just 

15           to be clear, it was done outside of the 

16           legislative process --

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yes.

18                  SENATOR MAYER:  -- to my recollection.  

19           I'm happy to revisit it, and I look forward 

20           to that.

21                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  And I -- and I 

22           misspoke.  My team is telling me that it was 

23           not in the statute, and there's another 

24           process.


                                                                   135

 1                  SENATOR MAYER:  Yes.

 2                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So I'll have to get 

 3           on top of it.

 4                  SENATOR MAYER:  Understood.  I look 

 5           forward to following up.  Thank you.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 7                  Assembly.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Yes, 

 9           Member Gallagher.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  So nice to 

11           see you, Chairman.  

12                  And I am a representative, as you 

13           know, of Northern Brooklyn, and we are along 

14           the most expanding housing corridor in the 

15           entire state.  And we have a wonderful train 

16           that my district loves to ride.  We are not 

17           afraid of the train, we love it.  And we also 

18           support congestion pricing because we want 

19           this train to be upgraded, and that is the G 

20           Train.  

21                  And we are very grateful that the G 

22           Train is currently getting new signals.  But 

23           that is resulting in a really painful 

24           schedule which I'm accepting because I know 


                                                                   136

 1           without pain there can be no gain.  But I 

 2           want bigger gain from this shutdown, because 

 3           I see the G as the new lifeline for New York 

 4           City activity.  Because we are growing in 

 5           Queens and we are growing in Brooklyn, and 

 6           the G actually connects all of these.

 7                  So we sent a letter to you, we just 

 8           sent it this morning, so I'll give you a 

 9           little preview.  Twenty-two of us are asking 

10           for you to expand the G back to Forest Hills 

11           like it used to be, which got cut in 2010, 

12           and to finally let our G Train be an adult 

13           and grow to 10 cars instead of the four 

14           stubby little cars that we've had all these 

15           years.

16                  So I'm wondering, are you willing to 

17           seriously consider this and not brush it off?  

18           Because I'm telling you, the ridership is 

19           going to soar.  Since we released this 

20           letter, I've gotten so many emails and texts 

21           saying:  Thank you!  I used to be able to get 

22           to Queens in 10 minutes, and now I have to 

23           ride three trains and take 20 minutes or 

24           30 minutes, based on those trains.


                                                                   137

 1                  So can we turn this six-week complete 

 2           shutdown of our only train into the most 

 3           expansive and amazing opportunity that Queens 

 4           and Brooklyn have ever seen, even beyond the 

 5           Interborough Express, which I'm also a big 

 6           supporter of.

 7                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Okay.  Yeah, this 

 8           is a good question.  So I'm thrilled that you 

 9           recognize that a major signaling upgrade is 

10           going to happen, and the value of that to 

11           reliability.  It also puts us in a position 

12           to run better service.

13                  Those decisions -- you know, I'm 

14           looking at my friend here Mr. Davey.  The 

15           operations plan, it has to be done on the 

16           stats.  So you say -- and, you know, I 

17           respect it -- that the ridership growth and 

18           the housing growth warrants it.  That is 

19           going to be the -- those are going to be the 

20           criteria that will be used to figure out 

21           where to run more trains.

22                  We are -- as you've heard from us, 

23           we're running more service on the G 

24           throughout the day, weekends and so on.  


                                                                   138

 1           We're going to look at what you've asked for, 

 2           based on neutral criteria, and we're always 

 3           thrilled to talk to enthusiastic subway 

 4           riders like you.

 5                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Okay, thank 

 6           you.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I want to see the 

 9           letter also, please.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Yes.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

12                  Senator Persaud.

13                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I'd like to see it 

14           after social media gets done with it, yeah.

15                  (Laughter.)

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  You know how 

17           we do things.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator Persaud.

19                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Thank you.

20                  Thank you again for being here.  I'm 

21           looking forward to you coming for us to do 

22           the walk-through in my district.  I think MTA 

23           is tired of hearing me say some of these 

24           things that I say to them.  But I want to 


                                                                   139

 1           touch on something that the differently-abled 

 2           population in my community has been asking, 

 3           and that's the OMNY system.

 4                  Why is it that in the paratransit 

 5           system they're not able to use the system?  

 6           They still have to find cash when they call 

 7           Access-A-Ride.  Can you tell us about that?

 8                  And what will it take for that system 

 9           to be added to paratransit?

10                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Yeah, so we're 

11           actively working on that, not only for our 

12           customers who use Access-A-Ride or E-Hail, 

13           but for our customers -- our student 

14           customers, for example.  

15                  We need to continue to migrate folks 

16           onto OMNY.  Our expectation is we should be 

17           doing that this year.  We actually have a 

18           pilot coming soon, if not already, for some 

19           of our paratransit customers, to ensure that 

20           they can use OMNY.  

21                  But it's a -- we want to make sure 

22           that the OMNY system, which I think, at least 

23           in my experience, has been one of those items 

24           we've implemented which customers love, to 


                                                                   140

 1           make sure that all of our customers get it.  

 2           But paratransit customers are at the top of 

 3           the list next.

 4                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Okay, so you're 

 5           starting a pilot this year is what you're 

 6           saying?

 7                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  A pilot's 

 8           certainly this year.  Whether we're rolling 

 9           it out to all paratransit customers, I'll 

10           have to get back to you with the exact 

11           expected date.  But certainly piloting.

12                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Okay, thank you for 

13           that.

14                  You know, I have one of the free bus 

15           lines in my district, and I've seen the 

16           increase in ridership.  So I'm awaiting the 

17           results of your study to let us know and to 

18           first decide what else we're going to do for 

19           our ridership across the city in terms of 

20           free service.

21                  Can you tell me, also, what is being 

22           done -- I've taken the train in the past 

23           couple of months.  You know, instead of 

24           driving into the city, I've taken the 


                                                                   141

 1           A Train, the L Train and the No. 4 Train.  

 2           And I have felt safe on the train.  You know, 

 3           some people may not feel that way.  But for 

 4           the most part, my constituents are telling me 

 5           they are still feeling safe on the train.

 6                  But how is the MTA conveying that to 

 7           the larger population, that the train is safe 

 8           to ride?

 9                  MTA CCO RIEARA:  So we are doing that 

10           in a number of ways, one component being that 

11           we have throughout the system is our use of 

12           our digital screens.  So we have been 

13           running, over the past couple of months, a 

14           safety campaign which really displays what 

15           the chairman is saying as far as current 

16           stats and crime rates and showing the 

17           improvement, as well as, you know, working 

18           with President Davey with the use of station 

19           agents outside of the booth who are, you 

20           know, another great set of eyes and ears.  So 

21           we're pushing that out to our customers.

22                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Thank you for that.

23                  My final thing, please fix the BM2 bus 

24           system.  Thank you.


                                                                   142

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 2           Senator.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you, 

 4           Senator.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

 6           Carroll, please.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN CARROLL:  Good morning, 

 8           Chair Lieber.  Thank you for your testimony.

 9                  As you're aware, historically our 

10           commuter railroads have received a 

11           disproportionate amount of capital and 

12           operating funding compared to the New York 

13           City Transit.  

14                  With new funding streams like the 

15           Payroll Mobility Tax, which exclusively taxes 

16           New York City businesses, and of course 

17           congestion pricing, can you commit today that 

18           New York City Transit will receive its fair 

19           share of operating and capital funding going 

20           forward?

21                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  It's no secret to 

22           you that the allocation of capital among our 

23           different operators has historically involved 

24           the Legislature, and the board that has final 


                                                                   143

 1           approval includes the Legislature.  So, you 

 2           know, that's not my commitment to make.

 3                  But you've seen what we've been doing 

 4           in terms of investing in New York City 

 5           ridership, including making it a lot cheaper 

 6           to ride the commuter railroads within the 

 7           City of New York, taking advantage of some of 

 8           that space that we now have on the system to 

 9           get people to shorter commutes who are riding 

10           from commuter rail stations.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN CARROLL:  But Chair 

12           Lieber, I am correct that New York City 

13           businesses, New York City commuters, New York 

14           City residents pay the vast majority of the 

15           funding that goes to the MTA, and we receive 

16           a disproportionate amount of service and 

17           investment compared to the commuter 

18           railroads.

19                  Can you commit to changing that?  It 

20           is the MTA that writes the 20-year capital 

21           needs assessment, not the State Assembly and 

22           Senate.  It is the MTA that decides service 

23           improvements along our subways, our buses and 

24           our commuter railroads.


                                                                   144

 1                  Can you commit to bringing parity to a 

 2           system where New York City consistently pays 

 3           above its weight?  And I will tell you right 

 4           now, I will agree with Senator Persaud, I 

 5           take the subway every day.  It is safe.  I'm 

 6           happy that we have congestion pricing, and my 

 7           constituents will pay more of it than any of 

 8           the suburban members' constituents.  If 

 9           they're convinced that the subways are 

10           dangerous and that New York City is now being 

11           gated off, well, so be it.  We're paying for 

12           it.

13                  Will you commit to the people who are 

14           ready to pay for the system that we're going 

15           to provide equal amounts?  I'm not asking to 

16           shortchange Long Island or the suburbs.  I'm 

17           just asking for parity in funding and 

18           service.

19                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  It sounds 

20           reasonable.  We've always emphasized, within 

21           the scope of the capital budget that we're 

22           given, prioritizing making sure that subways 

23           and buses and commuter rail service within 

24           the city is great.  


                                                                   145

 1                  We're very proud -- you've heard about 

 2           it at great length today -- and we're not -- 

 3           and -- and --

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN CARROLL:  Well, that's 

 5           great.  I will take that to the bank.  

 6                  And I want to agree with 

 7           Assemblymember Gallagher, it is Brooklyn and 

 8           other places that are going to end up 

 9           building housing and are building housing.  

10           We should make sure that when we build that 

11           housing, the MTA is committed to increasing 

12           service commensurate with that population 

13           increase.

14                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Thank you.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you 

16           very much.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN CARROLL:  Thank you.  

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

19                  Senator Fernandez.

20                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Thank you so much.

21                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Hello, Senator.

22                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  I represent 

23           District 34, the East Bronx, which has parts 

24           of 95, Cross Bronx, and Hutchinson River 


                                                                   146

 1           Parkway.  In one of the recent lawsuits on 

 2           congestion pricing it was highlighted that 

 3           more congestion will be coming to the Bronx, 

 4           so this is a big concern for me, as my 

 5           community has these major highways right 

 6           through it.

 7                  Do you agree that congestion and 

 8           ridership will increase going through the 

 9           Bronx when congestion pricing starts?

10                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So what the 

11           environmental studies show, using the 

12           worst-case scenario -- and we're obligated to 

13           do that under the law -- there was an 

14           increase between 100 and 400 trucks per day.  

15           And there was a specific mitigation plan 

16           proposed.  

17                  And I'm not going to go through all of 

18           it, but one thing that's great is to replace 

19           those refrigeration units, which are 

20           diesel-powered, in the South Bronx.  That by 

21           itself would offset the impact of those 

22           additional trucks.

23                  So we have complied with the idea of 

24           mitigating the impact that was identified for 


                                                                   147

 1           the Bronx, and we're going to work with 

 2           everybody in EJ community in the Bronx to 

 3           make sure we get it done.  We got their 

 4           support with that commitment.

 5                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  But you agree 

 6           there will be more drivers coming through the 

 7           Bronx.

 8                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  But you heard the 

 9           way that the system has been -- it's been 

10           addressed to offset that impact.

11                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Okay.

12                  The OMNY card system, there's been 

13           concern with privacy protection, knowing that 

14           you could use a credit card for it.  What has 

15           MTA done to protect identity theft and any 

16           other cyberattacks on our riders buying 

17           through credit cards?

18                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  I think we have 

19           a pretty robust cybersecurity program 

20           generally at MTA.  We can get you more 

21           information specifically about that.  But 

22           we're not tracking riders using credit card 

23           information at all.

24                  I think what we have heard and found 


                                                                   148

 1           from our customers is that they appreciate 

 2           the ability to have, you know, multiple 

 3           channels to use.  Which is why we've seen 

 4           now, I think, OMNY at about -- close to 

 5           50 percent of our subway customers use OMNY 

 6           on a daily basis, without really any OMNY 

 7           machines yet.  We're starting to put those 

 8           out now.

 9                  So I think what we're hearing from our 

10           customers is they like it, it's a matter of 

11           convenience, and we haven't had any cyber 

12           issues as a result.

13                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Okay.

14                  With the turnstile upgrades that we're 

15           looking at, you put a prototype, correct, of 

16           the new doors --

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  That was one 

18           experimental prototype.  There was one 

19           available, and --

20                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  How much does one 

21           experiment cost?

22                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I don't have the 

23           answer offhand.

24                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  I would like to 


                                                                   149

 1           know.  Because if we're going to continue to 

 2           experiment, I think that's a cost on our 

 3           system that we should avoid.

 4                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Absolutely.  

 5           Absolutely.

 6                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Thank you.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 8                  Assembly.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

10           Seawright?  Is she here?  Okay.

11                  Member Sillitti.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SILLITTI:  Hello.

13                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Hello.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SILLITTI:  So last year 

15           we were in this same room and we talked about 

16           the train schedules and everybody's favorite 

17           line, the Port Washington Branch, and 

18           advocating for better service.  So I wanted 

19           to start this year with a compliment.

20                  The acting Long Island Rail Road 

21           president, Robert Free, has been really 

22           great.  When we had an issue with the 

23           schedules -- again -- you know, he met with 

24           me, but more importantly, he listened to the 


                                                                   150

 1           hundreds of riders and what they had to say, 

 2           and there was a change and we got it fixed.  

 3           And I really appreciate that.

 4                  So basically, you know, what I was 

 5           asking for last year is kind of what I'm 

 6           asking for again this year.  You know, we 

 7           still have a lot of work to do.  The 

 8           schedules still have some issues.  And too 

 9           many trains are still overcrowded.  You know, 

10           we continue to make fixes, but at the end of 

11           the day -- we make fixes to the schedules; at 

12           the end of the day, we need more trains. 

13                  With the promise of East Side Access, 

14           you know, the commuters, we hoped we would 

15           see more trains, better service.  And 

16           honestly, it really hasn't been the case for 

17           the Port Washington Branch specifically, in 

18           part because of our space limitations.  We 

19           need significant capital improvements, and I 

20           know you touched on that today.

21                  You know, unlike 10 years ago -- you 

22           know the history -- I believe the community 

23           and the locals are ready to make that 

24           investment and engage with you.  You know, 


                                                                   151

 1           everyone was excited about East Side Access; 

 2           now that it's here, you know, our work isn't 

 3           over.

 4                  So how do we get this into the capital 

 5           plan?  You know, how do we get this done?  Do 

 6           you need, you know, input from the riders?  

 7           As you've seen, my constituents know how to 

 8           mobilize.  Tell me what you need to get this 

 9           done.

10                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I think the key is 

11           to work out an agreement that will allow us 

12           the use of -- to expand the yard.  You and I 

13           are in total agreement.

14                  I think that the constraints on the 

15           yard space are what has prevented us from 

16           running more trains on the Port Washington 

17           line, and we've got to solve that issue right 

18           away to get -- that's where the focus ought 

19           to be.  The NIMBYism, you're right, is gone 

20           that prevented that from happening in the 

21           past.  Everybody recognizes that not 

22           expanding the yard was a huge mistake because 

23           it didn't give the PW line the benefit of all 

24           this additional capacity that we have now, 


                                                                   152

 1           thanks to Grand Central Madison, and we've 

 2           got to attack it right away by solving that 

 3           yard issue.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SILLITTI:  And this is, 

 5           as you know, a very long-term project.  So, 

 6           you know, while we're working on that, you 

 7           know, on the same track or the next track 

 8           over, you know, really continue to work on 

 9           fixing these schedules and making sure that 

10           it's, you know, working for everybody.  And 

11           we're not quite there yet, but I think we can 

12           get there.

13                  And certainly my commuters are ready 

14           and willing to tell you what they feel.

15                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah.  We're seeing 

16           a lot of them at Grand Central Madison, the 

17           folks from those --

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SILLITTI:  Yeah, no, 

19           they made the switch.  They're liking it.

20                  All right, thank you.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  Well, 

22           thank you.  

23                  As the Senator had -- Senator Krueger 

24           had mentioned earlier, we're going to take a 


                                                                   153

 1           10-minute break at this point in time so 

 2           everybody can stretch out a little bit.  So 

 3           we'll see you back here in about 10 minutes.

 4                  (Brief recess taken.)

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Senator 

 6           Krueger.  

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you so 

 8           much.  

 9                  So climate change.  Everything's about 

10           climate change, in my opinion, at this point 

11           in life.  And you have a commitment to moving 

12           forward with your own plan.  And I'm just 

13           curious, where are we on that?  

14                  There was recently a Comptroller 

15           report saying that we're behind, I guess, in 

16           a risk assessment and implementation measures 

17           to address extreme weather conditions 

18           specific to the MTA, and concern about 

19           preparedness, and where you are in the time 

20           frame in the sort of goals that have been set 

21           out by you.

22                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  {Mic issue.}  I'm 

23           not sure I'm on.  But --

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Yes.


                                                                   154

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  We work really 

 2           closely with the State Comptroller.  But 

 3           point of clarification, there is -- there was 

 4           no schedule for such a risk assessment to be 

 5           done.  So when people started muttering about 

 6           delays, there was no schedule.

 7                  But we are -- we have done this risk 

 8           assessment, and so much of it is -- I keep 

 9           coming back to it -- is reflected in that 

10           very detailed report, never been done before 

11           at this level of detail.  Let's take a look 

12           at that and talk about specifics.

13                  But what's new in that report that may 

14           not have come before the body in the past is 

15           looking at all of the risks, all of the 

16           situations that climate change creates -- 

17           extreme heat, torrential rainfall, sea-level 

18           rise, as well as the coastal surge that Sandy 

19           taught us about.

20                  So new threats that are moving 

21           quickly, and I think we've all got to find a 

22           way to deal with them in the next MTA capital 

23           program.  That's the focus of that report.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And you're right, 


                                                                   155

 1           I don't think there was a specific timeline, 

 2           there was just a sense that climate's beating 

 3           us to the punch, so to speak, or the problems 

 4           from climate.

 5                  Is there adequate funding within your 

 6           next capital plan to address what you see as 

 7           the critical priorities for remediation and 

 8           improvements in your MTA system because of 

 9           what's happening?

10                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  The envelope size 

11           of the next capital program has not been 

12           identified.  Our purpose in doing that report 

13           was to raise everybody's understanding of the 

14           scale and seriousness and urgency of the 

15           threats.  I think we provided that 

16           information.  

17                  We're now doing prioritization and 

18           pricing of the various interventions that are 

19           called for by that report, and that will 

20           factor into the next capital program.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And I think that 

22           you've heard from a large number of people 

23           today already how crucial what you do is to 

24           every one of our communities in the 12 


                                                                   156

 1           counties.  And I know I represent the East 

 2           Side and Midtown of Manhattan, and I sort of 

 3           sometimes feel all of your riders come 

 4           through my borough every day, and my district 

 5           specifically.  Perhaps they all don't, but it 

 6           feels like that.

 7                  So what you do is, you know, top 

 8           priority for the people of my district and 

 9           all the businesses that people come to and 

10           all the places the tourists either come to or 

11           don't come to.  So we are very, very 

12           conscious of making sure that you all have 

13           the tools to do everything you need, because 

14           frankly if you don't have a system that 

15           works, it all falls apart, at least from my 

16           perspective here in Manhattan. 

17                  So people have asked you a lot of 

18           concerns about congestion pricing, and people 

19           asked about the lawsuits, which I also don't 

20           really understand.  But do you realistically 

21           think that you're going to be able to stay on 

22           schedule for starting?

23                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  The issue is the 

24           lawsuits.  We have an infrastructure ready, 


                                                                   157

 1           we have the back office.  I'm sure there will 

 2           be imperfections and we will hear about them 

 3           when they -- if -- when they happen.  But the 

 4           contract is ready to go, we've planned this 

 5           properly.

 6                  The issue is if we have legal 

 7           uncertainty, we can't award contracts that 

 8           are dependent on the congestion pricing 

 9           money.  That's the issue that we're 

10           struggling with right now.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And as part of 

12           the sort of changes that were laid out by the 

13           MTA and agreed to with the Legislature, 

14           involving outer borough transit money and 

15           changes because of OMNY's rollouts, have you 

16           been able to hit all of your targets for 

17           service increases, based on those discussions 

18           and actually agreements in previous budgets?

19                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I believe we have.  

20           I mean, the 35 million that was referenced 

21           earlier that was in last year's 2023 budget 

22           was what funded the increases that Rich 

23           enumerated.  We're happy to talk about any of 

24           it.  


                                                                   158

 1                  I think we've been able to provide the 

 2           service increases on top of the Long Island 

 3           Rail Road 41 percent increase.  And we 

 4           implemented the Express Bus improvements for 

 5           Staten Island, and we're going to grow the 

 6           bus network as we do each of these 

 7           borough-by-borough improvements, and those 

 8           expansions and improvements are funded in the 

 9           five-year plan.  I just want to make that 

10           clear.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

12                  So this is a follow-up to a question 

13           that another member couldn't get in, but it 

14           was a very good question.  So we heard about 

15           concerns around the homeless population in 

16           the major Grand Central, Penn Station areas, 

17           on the subways.  And you're not actually 

18           responsible for homelessness or all the 

19           problems associated, but I know that a lot of 

20           work is being done.  And I agree that there 

21           are definitely improvements when people are 

22           riding the subways with concerns.

23                  But a concern that was raised here -- 

24           or couldn't be raised, because Senator Ramos 


                                                                   159

 1           actually ran out of time -- was we do see 

 2           children in the subways basically panhandling 

 3           or selling candy.  And I know that there are 

 4           outreach teams working within the subway 

 5           system for homeless people.

 6                  Is anybody looking into, when you see 

 7           children, often very young children, almost 

 8           by themselves, walking along subway tracks or 

 9           the trains, selling candy -- does anybody 

10           match-make with social services or with 

11           education, why aren't they in school 

12           somewhere?

13                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So this is a recent 

14           program that we too have noticed as well.  

15           And what we've done, we started a dialogue 

16           with the Department of Education.  The most 

17           natural intervenor is the folks who are 

18           supposed to be making sure that those kids 

19           are in school.  And we do have SOS, the 

20           Governor has set in motion this SOS program 

21           for outreach to the homeless.  They've also 

22           tried to make sure that when you see a kid of 

23           that kind, that those people are identified, 

24           get information, and you try to connect them 


                                                                   160

 1           with service, or at least to begin a process 

 2           of figuring out what they need and what's 

 3           missing and putting them in that position.

 4                  So we've made some progress.  I'm not 

 5           going to take you through the stats.  But 

 6           because of our end-of-line homeless outreach 

 7           operation, which happens in the middle of the 

 8           night at a lot of stations, we track the 

 9           scale of the population that's sheltering in 

10           the system.  And it's actually gone down a 

11           little bit, but it has by no means gone away.  

12                  And we're acutely aware of the fact 

13           that there are new groups of unsheltered 

14           people who are -- who may seek shelter in the 

15           system, and we're trying to make sure that 

16           they get into services or treatment if it's 

17           appropriate, and most important, housing, in 

18           the long run.  We're working on that with the 

19           city and all of the social service agencies 

20           every day.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  You and I have 

22           actually discussed this, but I'm going to 

23           raise it again because I don't think there's 

24           been a change in policy.


                                                                   161

 1                  It was one thing to allow people who 

 2           are taking bicycles or electric bikes onto 

 3           the subways or buses so that they perhaps can 

 4           get to, you know, the last mile to the train 

 5           and taking their bike with them on the train.  

 6           But full-sized motorcycles driving along the 

 7           platforms and using the elevators which we're 

 8           very happy we're seeing more of them because 

 9           they're crucial for disabled New Yorkers.  

10           They're not motorcycle elevators, and yet as 

11           I mentioned to you, I wait for an elevator 

12           and then it opens up and then a giant 

13           motorcycle or two come out or go in.

14                  And I think that you had changed the 

15           policy that somehow implies that that's 

16           allowed.  So clarify what we're going to do 

17           about that.

18                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  What's allowed is 

19           bikes and e-bikes, and with a specific 

20           prohibition on charging anytime you're 

21           anywhere in the system.  And that's something 

22           that we're aggressively enforcing, especially 

23           on the railroad.  I've never seen someone try 

24           to charge on the subway car, but we have seen 


                                                                   162

 1           that on the railroad, and we're being 

 2           aggressive about that. 

 3                  Listen, you know, the size of the 

 4           vehicle that you're describing, they don't 

 5           belong on the subway.  If it's gas-powered, 

 6           they are especially prohibited.  Haven't seen 

 7           a lot of it, haven't heard a lot of it, but 

 8           you've seen it and we've let the folks who 

 9           are doing enforcement know to be on the 

10           lookout.  If that starts to happen, we're 

11           going to push, push, push on that.

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  So I actually 

13           asked an NYPD because they were standing 

14           there, and I said "Stop them."  He said, 

15           "They're allowed now."  So maybe it needs a 

16           discussion also with NYPD that we're not 

17           talking about either electric or gas, actual 

18           motorcycles.  It's really scary if you're 

19           standing on a platform and suddenly there's a 

20           motorcycle coming at you.  You have nowhere 

21           to jump.

22                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  You want to --

23                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  The officer was 

24           misinformed.  I mean, that's all I can say.  


                                                                   163

 1           We will report that.  Our station agents are 

 2           now out of the booth, they're doing some more 

 3           station rounds today.  They know that if they 

 4           see that kind of vehicle -- and it's a 

 5           vehicle, it's not a bicycle, they should 

 6           report it.  Because as you said, it's a 

 7           safety issue for our customers, a safety 

 8           issue on the train -- God forbid if there's 

 9           some malfunction with this, you know, moped 

10           or scooter or motorcycle.  There's just no 

11           place for them whatsoever.

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And I know that 

13           the Governor I think put in her budget 

14           something about trying to address people who 

15           are hiding their license plates, which I know 

16           impacts tolls but it also -- these are 

17           motorcycles, no question about it, and they 

18           don't have license plates.  

19                  And my time is up.  Thank you.

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I wish we could get 

21           that level of self-enforcement in the subway 

22           system.

23                  (Laughter.)

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Next we'll 


                                                                   164

 1           have Member Otis, please.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you, Janno, 

 3           for the good testimony.

 4                  I have one basic question and one 

 5           little comment on -- the little comment is on 

 6           congestion pricing.  We've heard from a few 

 7           individuals who basically get off of work in 

 8           the city after 1:00 a.m. and they're sort of 

 9           saying there needs to be some dispensation.  

10           These are generally healthcare workers or 

11           security workers, and so they're sort of at a 

12           loss of affordability in terms of paying the 

13           charge.  So I throw that out there.

14                  But my basic question relates to 

15           Metro-North and the quantity of cars on 

16           particular trains.  What's the story in terms 

17           of new cars being brought online?  And the 

18           story in terms of monitoring where we have 

19           now some certain trains, popular trains, 

20           where there are not enough seats for the 

21           passengers that get on, and how you track 

22           that and your agility in being able to 

23           respond to those demands.

24                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So it's been most 


                                                                   165

 1           like high-profile that we've been doing a lot 

 2           of monitoring and adjustment on Long Island 

 3           Rail Road since that new schedule was put in 

 4           effect.

 5                  We do it also on Metro-North.  

 6           Metro-North has unbelievably high-quality 

 7           on-time performance, having 98 percent this 

 8           year, 97 last year.  And we're -- what we do 

 9           is we look at every train and if there is a 

10           pattern of a train being over capacity, there 

11           are adjustments made, usually by moving, you 

12           know, the car -- increasing the size of the 

13           car consists.

14                  One of the problems that we're having, 

15           though -- and I think we all know this -- is 

16           that people's expectations of personal space 

17           have changed.  And part of that is the middle 

18           seat, which was never too popular, is really 

19           like off-limits.  So we're having more 

20           standees.  We're trying to get people more to 

21           use the seats that are there so there isn't 

22           as much sense of overcrowding.

23                  But we're looking at it very, very 

24           carefully all the time.  If you have a 


                                                                   166

 1           particular train you're concerned about, let 

 2           us know, we'll take another look at the 

 3           numbers.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  And in terms of new 

 5           cars, availability of those on order, where 

 6           do we stand?

 7                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Absolutely.  So 

 8           we're in negotiations, we want to buy, you 

 9           know, new 9-As, the number of the car that 

10           would serve both commuter railroads.  We're 

11           in negotiation with Alstom.  It's no secret 

12           that procurement was outstanding for a long 

13           time.  As I said, I want to buy cars from 

14           Alstom.  It's a New York-based operation.  I 

15           also need to buy cars that we can afford.  

16                  So we're working on that, and we'll 

17           come back to you.  But the goal is to have 

18           new -- a procurement that will give us a lot 

19           more new commuter railcars in the near 

20           future, a couple of years.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you very 

22           much.  I yield back the rest of my time.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

24                  So the chairs of committees are 


                                                                   167

 1           allowed three-minute second rounds, so I'm 

 2           going to call up Senator Tim Kennedy.

 3                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you, 

 4           Chairwoman Krueger.

 5                  Chairman and team, thank you again for 

 6           your testimony.

 7                  I want to just talk about -- I know 

 8           you've mentioned the ridership and the 

 9           difficulty of getting back to pre-pandemic 

10           levels.  What is, say, the 10-to-20-year 

11           outlook on getting back to those levels?  And 

12           what are your thoughts on sustaining 

13           operations without new state or federal 

14           revenue assistance?

15                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Our financial plan 

16           that I keep talking about, the five zeros, 

17           balanced budgets, is based on increasing 

18           ridership, paid ridership, by another 

19           10 percent from where we are today, in a 

20           couple of years.  So that's some combination 

21           of more riders and also, hopefully, less fare 

22           evasion.

23                  So we are attacking that every day.  

24           That's how we would judge our access.


                                                                   168

 1                  I do not think that we should worry 

 2           that we don't have the crush loading that we 

 3           had -- particularly on subways, but sometimes 

 4           on commuter rails -- before COVID.  This is a 

 5           good problem to have.  And the levels that 

 6           we're talking about shooting for that give us 

 7           the balanced budget, are, you know, robust 

 8           ridership, and it supports the region 

 9           economically.  So we're not concerned.  

10                  But we're concerned about getting to 

11           the numbers that we've got in the financial 

12           plan.

13                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you.

14                  And does the MTA anticipate any 

15           additional federal funding to assist with the 

16           deficit?

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, there's new 

18           representation coming from the western part 

19           of the state -- 

20                  (Laughter.)

21                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  -- and we're very 

22           hopeful that more federal funding will come 

23           along with those changes in governmental 

24           representation in Washington.


                                                                   169

 1                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you.

 2                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  To be -- kidding 

 3           aside, yeah, we have done well with the Biden 

 4           infrastructure plan.  Senator Schumer, God 

 5           bless him, guardian angel of the MTA in 

 6           Washington, you know, keeps saying that we 

 7           should plan on 10 billion total come the end 

 8           of the Biden infrastructure money going out.  

 9           But a lot of it is competitive grants, so you 

10           don't know if you're going to get it.

11                  So right now it looks like we've 

12           nailed down, you know, four or five, 

13           including the additional formula money.  But 

14           we have to succeed in the different grant 

15           categories, which are competitive, in order 

16           to hit that $10 billion number, which is part 

17           of our capital plan.

18                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  And just last 

19           question, on those same lines, because we've 

20           been dealing with these issues, deficits and 

21           filling in the hole with funding and 

22           different revenue sources.  What could the 

23           MTA do with federal funding toward 

24           operational expenses within the MTA?


                                                                   170

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Listen, 

 2           historically operating budget -- operating 

 3           assistance has not been a great reliable 

 4           source of funds for the MTA because it comes 

 5           and goes based on who's in power.

 6                  But there is a proposal on the table.  

 7           We support it.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Great.  I'd like 

 9           to see that, if you could get it to us.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

12                  Member Seawright.  Is she here?  Not 

13           here, okay.

14                  Member Jacobson.  Member -- there he 

15           is, okay.

16                  I'd also like to take the opportunity 

17           to just say that Member Pheffer Amato, 

18           Member Walker, Member González-Rojas, they've 

19           all joined us as well.  Thank you.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  All right, 

21           thank you.  Good to see you again.

22                  As you know, I represent a district in 

23           the Hudson Valley, and I have the 

24           Poughkeepsie and Beacon train stations in my 


                                                                   171

 1           district.  So I'd like to bring up about the 

 2           Beacon Train Station, because as you know, 

 3           we've had extensive flooding in the parking 

 4           lot on the side near the river.  And I did 

 5           get a call back from someone in your office, 

 6           and they said, "What do you want me to do 

 7           about it?  It's climate change."

 8                  Well, I think we have to do something 

 9           about it.  I think that we'll end up with the 

10           whole Metro-North under the river if we don't 

11           plan on that.  And the least we can do, when 

12           it comes to that parking lot, is close it for 

13           that day or starting the night before if we 

14           think we got -- you know, we're going to have 

15           a bad storm.

16                  And unfortunately we get a lot of bad 

17           storms, and they're worse all the time.  So 

18           could you tell me what you're going to be 

19           doing?

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Listen, it sounds 

21           like somebody was a little flip in the 

22           response.  That's not my attitude towards 

23           that issue, which is if you have people who 

24           are parking their cars and then coming back 


                                                                   172

 1           to find that they're flooded and that 

 2           they're, you know, the car's underwater with 

 3           damage and all that, that's not good.

 4                  So we ought to plan for it.  We ought 

 5           to plan to close those areas if that has been 

 6           the experience.  You know, it's hard to 

 7           project when torrential rainfall is coming in 

 8           this new climate change era.  But I'm happy 

 9           to work with you.  I think the folks at 

10           Metro-North are fully capable of doing that.

11                  We've also, you know, agreed that 

12           we've got to open up some other areas to make 

13           sure that people park in the right areas if 

14           there is a risk.  So we'll work with you on 

15           that issue.

16                  But the bigger issue which we're all 

17           talking about is how to make sure to protect 

18           that Hudson Line.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  I understand.  

20           But I just think I know -- I know most of 

21           your responsibility is in the five boroughs.  

22           I understand that.  But the thing is, we've 

23           got to play it all over, otherwise you're 

24           going to have the whole system underwater.


                                                                   173

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  The Hudson Line is 

 2           very much on our minds, be assured of that.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  And one other 

 4           thing I asked last time, would it be so much 

 5           to have a portable toilet at the Beacon 

 6           Station that we could put there so people can 

 7           have it?  Because the stench is terrible.  

 8           And people love coming to Beacon, but the 

 9           stench is terrible when you arrive.

10                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Sounds eminently 

11           reasonable.  I don't want to waste the 

12           Legislature's time, but let's talk about 

13           portajohns.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  That would be 

15           good, because when I brought this up with 

16           your representative, he was worried about 

17           homeless people coming down and -- I don't 

18           think they're going to be tracking down that 

19           hill.

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I live in Brooklyn; 

21           we have -- you know, we've addressed the 

22           problem, so.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Okay.  Well, 

24           it's the little things that have quality of 


                                                                   174

 1           life.

 2                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yes.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Thank you.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 6                  And a second round for Chair Comrie, 

 7           three minutes.

 8                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.  I want to 

 9           start with where I'm going to end it, 

10           Penn Station.  As you know, my favorite beef 

11           is that we are not doing this Penn Station 

12           with throughway and throughput.  And a Post 

13           article that came out at Christmas talked 

14           about the project expansion, that the cost of 

15           the project is expanding.  

16                  Why can't we play with each other's 

17           trains and have the similar offices and 

18           shared facilities so the project wouldn't be 

19           so expensive?  And why are we not figuring 

20           out a way to do like other countries do where 

21           they can share national, local and 

22           metropolitan trains within the same station 

23           with the same people using the facility?

24                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So just to be 


                                                                   175

 1           clear, New York's use of Penn Station, we're 

 2           not having problems with our capacity.  

 3           Right?  We are now running hundreds and 

 4           hundreds of Long Island Rail Road trains.  

 5           Customers are happier every week with our 

 6           performance.  

 7                  And we've improved it by doing that 

 8           amazing Carter project, which has changed 

 9           the --

10                  SENATOR COMRIE:  I've only got three 

11           minutes.  So why has the cost been estimated 

12           to go up?

13                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I don't know 

14           what -- respectfully, I just -- I don't 

15           understand, what are you asking me to comment 

16           on?  The future of the Penn Station 

17           project -- 

18                  SENATOR COMRIE:  The future of 

19           Penn Station.

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  -- mostly being 

21           driven by Amtrak and New Jersey Transit, who 

22           want to expand trackage capacity.  

23                  You know the Governor has said let's 

24           focus on the piece that impacts New Yorkers, 


                                                                   176

 1           existing Penn.  That's her approach, and 

 2           that's what -- the orders I'm operating 

 3           under.

 4                  SENATOR COMRIE:  We're spending so 

 5           much money, I still think we need to upgrade 

 6           our stations to have through running and 

 7           other things that other major countries have 

 8           as well.  So I still want to continue to bang 

 9           that drum until I can get you guys to change 

10           your mind.

11                  Just on a second issue, the PCAC 

12           initiative to figure out how to expand the 

13           Fair Fares and to come up with an expansion 

14           of the CityTicket and also clear ticket fares 

15           throughout the system so that we can get more 

16           people to understand how they can access the 

17           trains, how to pay for the trains at a 

18           certain level, and a better way to expand 

19           knowledge of that.  

20                  And then also I had another question 

21           regarding the cost for project labor and 

22           ensuring that all construction projects have 

23           project labor agreements with the building 

24           trades and apprenticeship programs that are 


                                                                   177

 1           embedded in all contracts that are going 

 2           forward.  

 3                  And also Senator Ramos had a second 

 4           question about who did the work on the 

 5           platform barriers and the 700 million {sic} 

 6           pilot turnstiles at Parsons-Archer.  Who did 

 7           the work, where are these contracts from, and 

 8           was union labor used?

 9                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Okay.  So --

10                  SENATOR COMRIE:  I know you can't get 

11           back and answer me now, but --

12                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I can't answer 

13           everything, but I'll just say this.  The 

14           CityTicket, under this Governor, we just 

15           dramatically cut the cost of traveling on the 

16           railroads inside the city.  That's changing 

17           people's lives.  It's 80 percent of the PCAC 

18           agenda on price.

19                  But Lisa Daglian is our close partner, 

20           and we're always going to keep working.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  I 

22           have to cut you off.  Thank you.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

24           Mitaynes, please.


                                                                   178

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  Thank you.  

 2                  Stand by, I'm on the move.  That's a 

 3           line I use on social media to communicate 

 4           with my followers, my dependency and youth of 

 5           public transit.

 6                  So my question is, as no available 

 7           funding opens up through the Outer Borough 

 8           Transportation Account, would the MTA be 

 9           supportive of a project such as extending the 

10           B81 proposed route or an alternative route in 

11           the Brooklyn bus network redesign to 

12           Manhattan to meet the growing needs?  I say 

13           specifically because of the transit desert 

14           communities of Red Hook and Flatbush to 

15           Lower Manhattan.

16                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Okay, so thank you 

17           for the question.  I'm a Flatbush person 

18           myself.

19                  I don't know the specifics of those 

20           lines, but the Brooklyn bus redesign, which 

21           has been a draft plan which has been on the 

22           table for about a year, we're doing that 

23           incredibly extensive outreach.  You're 

24           obviously a very important voice in that 


                                                                   179

 1           process, and we're going to come back and 

 2           look at the whole picture as part of getting 

 3           back to you.  It's not cost-constrained.  

 4           We're planning to spend more money on 

 5           Brooklyn buses.  But I can't answer the 

 6           specific one without looking at the whole 

 7           package.

 8                  Rich?

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  Thank you.

10                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  And I would 

11           just say, as we did in the Bronx and as we've 

12           proposed in Queens, you know, our -- the 

13           drafts we put out have never been the final 

14           word.  We've taken feedback from elected 

15           officials, stakeholders, and most 

16           importantly, our customers.  I expect what we 

17           have out for Brooklyn right now will not be 

18           what we ultimately implement in the future.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  Thank you.

20                  Of the local buses, Select Buses, 

21           Express Buses and subways, which ridership 

22           has the highest percentage of people who own 

23           a car and could otherwise drive?

24                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I don't know.


                                                                   180

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  What 

 2           percentage of seats are filled, on average, 

 3           on Express Buses?  Are they full, 80 

 4           percent --

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Not full.  They 

 6           are -- we're operating in the 30s.  But we're 

 7           not a million miles off of where they were 

 8           before COVID.  So we have a lot of room on 

 9           the Express Bus system.  And I -- I take it 

10           sometimes myself back to my part of Brooklyn, 

11           and it's a great ride.  But we do have to 

12           bear in mind we've got a lot of capacity 

13           there, and they're, you know, expensive to 

14           subsidize for all of us with the resources we 

15           have.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  The MTA has 

17           been running a pilot of bicycle racks on city 

18           buses in Staten Island to Bay Ridge.  Can you 

19           share the latest progress and your plans for 

20           expanding the bike rack on the front of 

21           buses, the pilot?

22                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  All those buses 

23           where, you know, people need to get over a 

24           bridge in order to get where they want to go, 


                                                                   181

 1           we want to have bike racks on those.  

 2                  And I think we put them on the two 

 3           lines that cross the bridge, right?

 4                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  That's right.  

 5                  And we will continue to look to see if 

 6           we can add more bike racks.  It has to do 

 7           with sort of the space within depots.  But as 

 8           the chair said, we're prioritizing those 

 9           routes we know that are routes where folks 

10           can't take their bikes over bridges, as an 

11           example.

12                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  But the MTA has 

13           added bike access to almost every bridge that 

14           we operate, so we're prioritizing that.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

16           Mr. Chairman.

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  Thank you.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

19           sir.

20                  Member Palmesano, please.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Yes, thank 

22           you, Mr. Chairman, for being here today.  

23                  As you know, I represent Alstom, in 

24           Hornell, New York.  I want to thank you and 


                                                                   182

 1           your team for visiting in the summer of '22 

 2           so you could see firsthand the great 

 3           workforce and the great work they're doing to 

 4           address rail manufacturing, including 

 5           high-speed rail, here in New York and across 

 6           the country.

 7                  My message obviously is about the 

 8           critical importance of keeping MTA projects 

 9           being executed in New York State.  You know, 

10           we're very fortunate to have that industrial 

11           base of manufacturing, engineering, project 

12           management, and supplier -- a big huge supply 

13           base.  The jobs and economic benefits that go 

14           along with that are well known, and we don't 

15           want to put that at risk.  

16                  There are 700 workers at the Hornell 

17           site.  There's union partners, machinists, 

18           they're doing projects for Amtrak, Chicago 

19           and Philadelphia, but none for the MTA at the 

20           moment.  And we know MTA projects are really 

21           a proven engine for creating jobs upstate, 

22           and we want to continue that.

23                  So that brings me to two of my 

24           questions.  I'll get them both out there for 


                                                                   183

 1           the time.  One is we know that there's a new 

 2           generation of subway vehicles being proposed 

 3           in the future of New York City Transit, the 

 4           R262 contract.  I wanted to know what the 

 5           time and status of that would be.  That's one 

 6           area.

 7                  The other area, as I'm sure you're 

 8           pretty familiar, and your team might be 

 9           familiar with the Brightline high-speed rail 

10           contract that's being determined very soon 

11           for high-speed rail from Las Vegas to 

12           Nevada -- and Alstom's one of the bidders on 

13           that contract -- and many on this panel, I 

14           believe, given that both Transportation 

15           chairs have weighed in on the competitor's 

16           waiver from the Buy American requirements.  

17                  So my other question is, what can you 

18           do or the Hochul administration really do to 

19           support Alstom's pursuit of this rail 

20           contract that would not just support the 

21           hundreds of workers in New York and in my 

22           district, but also help support the 

23           industrial capacity to help serve you and the 

24           MTA for years to come?  


                                                                   184

 1                  Is there anything you can do there?  

 2           And we'll maybe -- 

 3                  (Overtalk.)

 4                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So we're not -- 

 5           obviously the economic development 

 6           decision-making is not, you know, our 

 7           bailiwick.  

 8                  But I'll say this.  I want a strong 

 9           operation in Hornell.  So for them to get a 

10           lot of good contracts from around the country 

11           is a great thing, even if it displaces 

12           capacity that I might want to use for the 

13           R262s or otherwise.

14                  So we support that.  But, you know, 

15           the -- you obviously are going to work with 

16           the economic development authorities of the 

17           State of New York on that.  We want them to 

18           be strong and to be expanding that.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  So would 

20           the -- on the Brightline, is that something 

21           the Hochul administration would join us in 

22           submitting comments?  Because that would be 

23           vital because that would not just be 

24           supporting those jobs there, but --


                                                                   185

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I'm sure you 

 2           understand that that is not among the many 

 3           things that are on my job description.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Sure.

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Deciding whether 

 6           Florida has a contract in New York State is 

 7           not among them.

 8                  But as long as Hornell is producing 

 9           railcars, I want them to get a lot of 

10           business and be strong.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Yeah, because 

12           that Buy American provision is critical.  And 

13           that's why we want to support that, because 

14           of that base, so.  

15                  Thank you.  Appreciate it, 

16           Mr. Chairman.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

18                  Member González-Reyes.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  Ro-has.

20                  Thank you all.

21                  So this cast is precisely why I'm an 

22           advocate for public transportation and 

23           pedestrian/cyclist safety.  I got hit by a 

24           car a few weeks ago.


                                                                   186

 1                  And talking about pedestrian safety, 

 2           we got to pass the MTA Bike Access bill and 

 3           the Strategic Planning bill to ensure -- to 

 4           develop a strategic plan to improve bicyclist 

 5           and pedestrian access on bridges and 

 6           stations.  So thank you for your partnership 

 7           on that.

 8                  Can you share an update on where we 

 9           are in the implementation of that 

10           legislation?

11                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, we just last 

12           month -- I'm not going to get all the details 

13           right, but I'm going to refer back because 

14           time is short.  We did an extensive 

15           presentation on the changes that we are 

16           making with many, many MTA bridges to make 

17           those walkways, to the extent they exist, put 

18           them where they don't exist and to expand 

19           them and make them safer for both pedestrians 

20           and bicycles where they do.  So there's a lot 

21           of planning going into that.

22                  And we're also well on the way to 

23           having bike racks at every subway station so 

24           we're literally knocking out the last few 


                                                                   187

 1           with the city DOT.  And we've also done a big 

 2           push on that in the suburbs.  Even where we 

 3           don't control the real estate, we're working 

 4           with localities to make sure they have 

 5           adequate capacity for bike parking and 

 6           storage.

 7                  And we're trying out some of this 

 8           secure bike parking that makes people even 

 9           more inclined to use their bikes for that 

10           last-mile connection.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  Thank 

12           you.

13                  I know someone asked about the data 

14           around the free bus pilot, and I know you 

15           don't have it ready yet, but I know 

16           President Davey was quoted in the 

17           December 2023 Our Town NY article about 

18           seeing about somewhere between a 7 and 

19           20 percent increase on buses.  When would 

20           that data be transparent and shared with the 

21           public and --

22                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I think I said 

23           it -- you may not have been present.  But 

24           what I said, it's like the Legislature said 


                                                                   188

 1           this is a six-to-12-month pilot, and we're 

 2           collecting data and we're going to be back to 

 3           you in that six-to-12-month time frame, it's 

 4           just premature. 

 5                  Yes, we are seeing ridership grow, but 

 6           it's not fair to not perform the analysis 

 7           that everybody called on us to do and to give 

 8           you full data.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  And 

10           then in my last few seconds, concerning the 

11           finances of the MTA, I imagine it would be 

12           best to have just more sustainable funding.

13                  I have a bill that would remit the 

14           internet sales tax into a lockbox that would 

15           go directly to the MTA, as opposed to going 

16           through this process.  Would that be helpful 

17           for financial planning?  It's part of the MTA 

18           package of bills.

19                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  We'll take a look 

20           at it, but obviously, you know, I just don't 

21           know enough about it to respond.  And we 

22           obviously have to talk to the administration.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  Thank 

24           you so much.


                                                                   189

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

 2                  Member Burgos, please.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  Thank you, 

 4           Chairman Lieber, and the rest of the team at 

 5           the MTA.  

 6                  As you're aware, I've been engaged 

 7           with your team and the Governor's team along 

 8           with Senator Comrie over the past year 

 9           regarding the grave injustice happening in 

10           our state when it comes to cashless tolling 

11           and the E-ZPass system.  

12                  I won't go into every problem we've 

13           discussed in the interests of time, but for 

14           the record, I've talked to many New Yorkers 

15           who have been burdened with bills reaching 

16           tens of thousands of dollars, often leaving 

17           them in debt collections, losing their car 

18           and subsequently their livelihood.

19                  Now, I want to be clear, this is not a 

20           defense for scofflaws who cover their plates 

21           or deliberately ignore toll bills.  Both of 

22           these issues are true, and should not be 

23           conflated.

24                  There are three tolling authorities in 


                                                                   190

 1           New York State, but it's very apparent the 

 2           overwhelming majority of people dealing with 

 3           this issue are the ones who cross the MTA's 

 4           seven bridges and two tunnels in New York 

 5           City.  With the congestion pricing plan set 

 6           to be implemented very soon, I have great 

 7           concern that these same issues will only 

 8           expand if sweeping changes are not made.

 9                  Chairman Lieber, how many toll 

10           transactions does the MTA process annually?

11                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Two and a half -- I 

12           think it's $2.5 billion worth.  I'm going to 

13           pull out the --

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  About 320 million 

15           transactions, right?

16                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  You obviously know 

17           the numbers, then.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  Approximately how 

19           many drivers use the cashless tolling system 

20           as opposed to an E-ZPass tag?

21                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I think we're 

22           80 percent E-ZPass, plus or minus.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  Eighty percent 

24           E-ZPass, about 20 percent using cashless 


                                                                   191

 1           tolling, plus or minus.

 2                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Somebody will 

 3           correct me if I'm wrong, but I think -- more 

 4           or less.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  Okay, thank you.

 6                  Now, the other two tolling authorities 

 7           in New York have a penalty system for unpaid 

 8           tolls.  However, they differ vastly.  The 

 9           Port Authority typically adds on a $50 

10           violation per unpaid toll, while the Thruway 

11           Authority charges a very reasonable $50 per 

12           billing cycle, a maximum of $600 per year.

13                  The MTA, on the other hand, charges a 

14           $100 per toll violation, an amount more 

15           egregious than even the most predatory 

16           creditor out there. 

17                  How much does the MTA collect in these 

18           $100 fees?

19                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Listen, I don't 

20           know the answer.  But our average penalty fee 

21           is 30 bucks.  So I don't really know where 

22           the data's coming from.

23                  And, you know, I'm -- all this is -- 

24           obviously you want to talk about this in some 


                                                                   192

 1           detail.  The answer is, number one, we are 

 2           absolutely prepared to work with all of the 

 3           members of the Legislature on customer 

 4           service.  I don't necessarily fully disagree 

 5           with you about fees.  But the bottom line is 

 6           people have to pay their tolls, and the 

 7           interventions we've been doing, increasing 

 8           dramatically, are focused on people who are 

 9           massive scofflaws or who are intentionally 

10           covering their plates.

11                  We don't want to burden people who 

12           just overlook a bill.  So let's talk about 

13           it, and let's focus -- 

14                  (Unintelligible overtalk.)

15                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  -- on the fact that 

16           90 percent of the people from the Bronx -- 

17           90 percent of the people from the Bronx are 

18           taking mass transit.  So the demonization of 

19           the effort to collect tolls so that we can 

20           pay for mass transit --

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  Yes, but a $30 

22           average fee is not including the ones that go 

23           to debt collection.  That's not calculated 

24           into your numbers.  And there are many people 


                                                                   193

 1           who go into debt collection receiving these 

 2           bills.  I've seen bills $40,000, $50,000, 

 3           $60,000, and it's not uncommon.

 4                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Let's --

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  And again, I'm 

 6           not defending the scofflaws.  That is not my 

 7           goal here.

 8                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Well, that's my 

 9           problem right now.  So before we get into 

10           tolls, you're going to hear me talk about 

11           what is basically a theft from the public, 

12           and it's grown.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  Thank you.  

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

15           Mr. Chairman.

16                  Member De Los Santos, please.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS:  Good 

18           afternoon, Chairman.  

19                  I'd -- so if I'm not mistaken, we are 

20           in our final year of the MTA 52.1 billion 

21           capital program executed from 2020 to 2024.  

22           One of the initiatives of this program was to 

23           add ADA elevators to more train stations, MTA 

24           train stations.  


                                                                   194

 1                  What's the forecast to add ADA 

 2           elevators in all train stations, particularly 

 3           in the one in my district in Marble Hill, 

 4           225th Street, where accessibility is an issue 

 5           for our elderly folks?  And we're still 

 6           struggling understanding how that station, 

 7           specific train station, did not become a 

 8           priority for ADA elevators.

 9                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So the answer is -- 

10           I think you've heard me say it -- we are 

11           doing ADA stations at four times the pace of 

12           the MTA in the past.  We have an agreement 

13           with the disability community about 

14           continuing that pace until we're completed 

15           with all of them.

16                  But all -- but the prioritization, 

17           what order we go in, hinges on issues like 

18           trying to make sure we never have more than 

19           two stops away, so people do have access to 

20           some ADA station.  But we'll work with you on 

21           figuring out where that station may be.  I 

22           just don't know the answer.  But it's 

23           something we study a great deal, about how to 

24           prioritize as we're building out the whole 


                                                                   195

 1           system.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS:  Given the 

 3           reality as it is right now, can you commit to 

 4           make that a reality moving forward, the 225th 

 5           train station?

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  No.  I can commit 

 7           to -- I can commit to keeping up the 

 8           incredibly fast pace of ADA station building 

 9           that we're doing.  The prioritization is 

10           something -- listen, you may be right, it may 

11           be something that ought to be up the priority 

12           chain.  I just don't know the answer as I sit 

13           here, about when it's scheduled.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS:  In 

15           addition to that, what promotion has the MTA 

16           done for the fare-free pilot program?

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  The fare-free pilot 

18           program.  Rich, you want to talk about that?  

19           Or Shanifah?

20                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Sure.

21                  So we've done a lot of promotion.  

22           Obviously we sent out -- all of our buses are 

23           signed with free fare, and we have obviously 

24           the technology, obviously, in the windows, 


                                                                   196

 1           for example, and then in the buses 

 2           themselves.  

 3                  We've had it on our websites so 

 4           customers know.  And given that it was 

 5           described earlier, we have seen a bit of an 

 6           uptick in ridership.  We have a lot of data 

 7           that we have to collect.  But suffice to say 

 8           customers know about it.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS:  Who's 

10           responsible for ensuring that those 

11           promotions come to underserved communities so 

12           that residents are well informed of the pilot 

13           program?

14                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  So yeah, as you 

15           know, the Legislature instructed us to pick 

16           five routes across each of the five boroughs.  

17           So we did that.  We looked at, as was asked, 

18           you know, demographics, how folks might 

19           interact.  So that was implemented four and a 

20           half months ago --

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you 

22           very much.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS:  Thank you.

24                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Sure.  


                                                                   197

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

 2           Seawright.

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you, 

 4           Mr. Chairman and Chair Krueger, and thank you 

 5           for your leadership.  

 6                  I represent Roosevelt Island and chair 

 7           the People with Disabilities Committee.  And 

 8           on Roosevelt Island right now there are two 

 9           elevators in service.  One is out.  Many of 

10           the residents are people with disabilities.  

11           They're not able to walk up and down the 

12           stairs for two levels.

13                  And so I'd like to know, you know, 

14           what the MTA is planning to do to bring some 

15           relief for these citizens.  As well as the 

16           F Train shuttle that runs every 20 minutes.  

17           There will be no shuttle service at all in 

18           three weekends in February.  

19                  The tram that services the island is 

20           the same.  Residents have been telling me 

21           that the line can stretch all the way to 

22           Third Avenue, and it's just not feasible.  

23           RIOC has stopped the Red Bus shuttle service 

24           on the island to Manhattan and doesn't have 


                                                                   198

 1           the capacity to run a shuttle because of the 

 2           strong demands on the island.

 3                  The MTA, we've seen, has been very 

 4           reluctant to offer adequate supplemental 

 5           service for the residents.  So if you could 

 6           just address this, I would appreciate it.

 7                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So a couple of 

 8           things.  One is we're -- we are on schedule 

 9           with the completion of that trackwork in the 

10           63rd Street Tunnel.  I'm very pleased about 

11           that.  And I actually -- our feedback, since 

12           we have been working with the community and 

13           some of your folks, is that people are -- 

14           broadly speaking, it's disruptive, but 

15           they're satisfied with the shuttle service 

16           that we've implemented, number one.

17                  Number two, we have driven up the 

18           availability rate of our elevators -- it's 

19           been a priority for us across the system -- 

20           to a much higher level than it was before.  

21           Many fewer are out of service at any one 

22           time.  We do have to replace elevators 

23           periodically as part of the capital program.  

24                  Anything else that you can offer on 


                                                                   199

 1           the specifics of why that elevator is down?  

 2           I don't know the answer.

 3                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Well, that's 

 4           literally waitlisted on our website.  There's 

 5           one elevator down because we're doing capital 

 6           work, so it will be up and running by the end 

 7           of February.

 8                  But back to the question of service, 

 9           though.  You know, we have a staff and --

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Well, let me 

11           just stop you for a second.  Back to that, is 

12           there any kind of plan?  Like I said, it's an 

13           island with a lot of people with 

14           disabilities.  Is there any kind of plan to 

15           offer any kind of supplemental addition or 

16           service or how to deal with this?

17                  NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY:  Yeah, so you 

18           just click and there's the travel 

19           alternatives for that particular elevator.

20                  So -- but again, happy to have a 

21           conversation if there's a particular customer 

22           or set of customers who have issues.

23                  I will say if we do see crowding, we 

24           try to send more buses out.  We have been 


                                                                   200

 1           laser-focused having, you know, operating 

 2           staff on the ground.  But as the chair said, 

 3           you know, we're -- you know, take just a step 

 4           back, we're ripping out 40-year-old track.  

 5           And the good news is this will be done.  And 

 6           I know that it's not easy for our customers 

 7           to sort of wade through this.  My hope is we 

 8           won't be back for another 40 years by the end 

 9           of March.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  There's also 

11           other --

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you 

13           very much.  Thank you.

14                  Member Walker.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:  Good afternoon.

16                  So I would like to plus-one my 

17           comments with those of my colleague 

18           Member Burgos, in the fact that there are a 

19           number of my constituents who come into the 

20           office on a regular basis with exorbitant 

21           fees associated with the bridges and tunnels 

22           around New York City -- most of them to the 

23           tune of $5,000 or more, and many of them 

24           being either threatened by or in the process 


                                                                   201

 1           of being adjudicated through some level of 

 2           debt collection.  To wit, we believe it's a 

 3           huge problem.  It's a civil rights issue.  

 4           It's an attack on the poor.  And we're 

 5           watching now and there are sort of economic 

 6           ramifications to it, but now as a part of 

 7           this proposal we are watching law enforcement 

 8           ramifications become more pervasive.

 9                  And I would love to continue to have 

10           this conversation with you in terms of how do 

11           we address removing transportation barriers 

12           to the poor when they have to do things like 

13           get to school, get to work, get to 

14           appointments, and sometimes having to make a 

15           tough decision as to whether or not they can 

16           afford the transportation fee, or to show up 

17           to some other very important matter that they 

18           have to get to, up to and including court.  

19                  So I look forward to speaking with you 

20           on that.  And I did hear you mention 

21           Senator Schumer, who announced at the 

22           Broadway Junction some of the federal 

23           investments that he's made.  With the planned 

24           rapid transit project known as the 


                                                                   202

 1           Interborough Express, we understand that a 

 2           number of stops will be made or proposed to 

 3           the IBX.  However, Broadway Junction is not 

 4           included as one of those stops.  Can you 

 5           please explain to me why?

 6                  Secondly, thank you very much for a 

 7           pilot project which is a free bus ride 

 8           through the B60, which is included in my 

 9           community, which again addresses poverty.  It 

10           is scheduled to end on March 30th.  I'd like 

11           to know more about how successful the program 

12           has been and whether or not in this budget we 

13           can plan for that to be more permanent as 

14           opposed to a pilot project.

15                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So just in the 

16           interests of time, because we're running out, 

17           I think we've said a couple of times we're 

18           going to give you a proper report on the 

19           thing.  The thing's been -- the experiment's 

20           only been going for a few months now.  You 

21           asked us to study it between six and 12 

22           months, and then we're going to give you a 

23           full and complete report on it in the next 

24           few months when that work has been done.


                                                                   203

 1                  On the IBX, the whole issue with 

 2           Broadway Junction is one of the ability to 

 3           get access closer to the station, physical 

 4           access.  So we are investing a huge amount of 

 5           money in making Broadway Junction 

 6           accessible -- I think $300 million -- and 

 7           doing a ton of other work.  The IBX we can 

 8           get into it in more detail.  The constraint 

 9           is literally physical and engineering.  It's 

10           not an oversight.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER:  Thank you.  

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

13           Mr. Chair.  Thank you.

14                  Member Pheffer Amato, please.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER AMATO:  Good 

16           afternoon.  Thank you for all the help and 

17           work that we've been doing together in the 

18           community.  It's great seeing you, and the 

19           improvements, but there's always more to be 

20           done.

21                  I'm going to just give a plus-one to 

22           my -- Members Burgos and Walker talking about 

23           the bills and the excessive charges that come 

24           with our constituents regardless if it's 


                                                                   204

 1           their fault or the system's fault, whatever 

 2           happens to build up those bills.  

 3                  So then for me, I want to know what 

 4           we're doing about toll evaders, and what we 

 5           can -- we as a Legislature can do to increase 

 6           that enforcement.  Is it hiring more TBTA 

 7           superior officers?  Is it a regular basis?  

 8           And I'm talking about the ones I see on a 

 9           daily basis.  Unlike some of my colleagues, 

10           you know, I go over my bridge about eight 

11           times a day, and you can see just plain, 

12           straight out, scraped-off plates, covered 

13           plates.  And what can we do to pull those 

14           folks over, who should be able to take their 

15           car, have a violation.  As opposed to, you 

16           know, Mrs. Smith, Mr. Rodriguez, who for 

17           whatever reason got themselves with a $5,000 

18           bill.  The fees are incessant.  But we have 

19           to look at the people that are breaking the 

20           law, and I'd like to work closely with you on 

21           that.

22                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Yeah, so very 

23           quickly, we gave out 3300 summonses last year 

24           for covered plates, a dramatic increase.  We 


                                                                   205

 1           intercepted 50 percent more vehicles than we 

 2           did last year.

 3                  The challenge is that we need -- as 

 4           the Governor has proposed, we need, you know, 

 5           stronger enforcement tools, a little more 

 6           bite to the law of when you cover a plate, we 

 7           can't actually confiscate the illegal plate, 

 8           which is crazy, if people are using these 

 9           James Bond devices to cover their plates and 

10           so on.  

11                  So we need a few more tools to get at 

12           it.  And we are -- we're confident -- we also 

13           need to work with the city, because some of 

14           this is when people are faking plates on our 

15           facilities, they're faking plates or using 

16           illegal fake temporary plates and are 

17           arrested -- see, that's frequently used in 

18           crime.  It's a huge crime issue.  

19                  So we need to be able to work with the 

20           city to identify those plates and pull them 

21           down in short order.  So you've got a 

22           specific detailed proposal from the Governor 

23           in the budget proposal --

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER AMATO:  Is there 


                                                                   206

 1           an estimate -- I'm sorry.  Is there an 

 2           estimate of how much lost revenue?  I mean, 

 3           that's what we're talking about.  We're 

 4           trying to make an equitable -- you know, 

 5           that's what my -- Member Burgos was saying 

 6           that other authorities, they charge $50 a 

 7           month, but that lost revenue, it shouldn't be 

 8           on the back of our -- sometimes, you know, 

 9           our constituents who have --

10                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  The unbillable, 

11           we've actually knocked down that number, 

12           although the covered plates piece of 

13           unbillable has gone up.  That's why we're 

14           highlighting it so much.

15                  So, you know, there's significant 

16           dollars.  It's 30 -- I think $34 million for 

17           unbillable projected in 2023, and that 

18           includes a lot of the covered plates.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER AMATO:  Thirty- 

20           four million?

21                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Thirty-four 

22           million.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER AMATO:  Okay.  

24           And I have 10 seconds left --


                                                                   207

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  And we've upped our 

 2           success in recovering from recidivists, 

 3           people who don't pay significantly.  Like 

 4           68 percent of that, of the big owers, we've 

 5           collected on.  And so we're growing our 

 6           success in collecting, but we need more 

 7           tools.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 9           sir.

10                  (Overtalk.)

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER AMATO:  -- I'll 

12           just say QueensLink, QueensLink, QueensLink.

13                  (Laughter.)

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

15                  Member Cunningham.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  How you 

17           doing, Mr. Chair?  Thank you so much.

18                  You mentioned Flatbush earlier, where 

19           I represent.  Think about this summer with 

20           the catastrophic rainfall, climate change, 

21           and some of the capital repairs needed at 

22           that and other stations.  Just wondered what 

23           the MTA's plan is in regard to capital 

24           repairs, particularly with climate change.


                                                                   208

 1                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Which -- which -- 

 2           in general, capital repairs with respect to 

 3           climate change?

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  Generally, 

 5           yes, but also Parkside --

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  I'm going to just 

 7           wave this around a little more.  This is like 

 8           an incredibly detailed analysis of the whole 

 9           system.  Six million components looked at for 

10           their vulnerability to climate change and 

11           their criticality to the system, and giving 

12           us a pathway how to fix it in the next 

13           capital program.  No one's ever done anything 

14           remotely like this.

15                  So I'd refer both of us back to that.

16                  But, you know, if you're talking about 

17           Newkirk Plaza or some of these areas that 

18           chronically are overwhelmed by water in these 

19           torrential rainfall situations, we have -- 

20           you know, you and I should talk about it.  

21                  But we do have a strategy for dealing 

22           with specific stations, but the broader issue 

23           is the city's incapacity in its storm sewer 

24           system.  When it goes beyond an inch and 


                                                                   209

 1           three-quarters in an hour, they run out of 

 2           space to get water out of the system.  We 

 3           become the backup reservoir.  That screws the 

 4           system up.  But we're getting pretty good at 

 5           pumping it out.  

 6                  We still need the city to work with us 

 7           on some localized improvements, and that's 

 8           what we should talk about with you.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  Thank you.  

10           So we'll definitely circle back with the 

11           Q Train and Parkside Avenue, to be more 

12           specific about the train station.

13                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Parkside.  Okay, 

14           Parkside, yeah.  We're --

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  We're in the 

16           same neighborhood.

17                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  This is my line.  I 

18           know.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  Got it.

20                  And the other question is really about 

21           the app service.  I find myself not using the 

22           MTA app as much as I use Google or other 

23           ones.  What improvements are you making, 

24           particularly with folks --


                                                                   210

 1                  (Overtalk.)

 2                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  You know, we 

 3           have --

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  -- in 

 5           technology?  

 6                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Shanifah, take it 

 7           away.  We're with you.

 8                  MTA CCO RIEARA:  Again, yeah, we are 

 9           all in alignment with that.  

10                  And that is something, you know, 

11           similar to our riders on the railroad got; we 

12           launched TrainTime over a year ago.  We want 

13           to bring the transit app into the modern-day 

14           history.  So we are working on releasing, 

15           within the next month or two, a new version 

16           that we hope to sort of touch on, you know, 

17           all the functions and features that our 

18           customers want, with the goal of continuing 

19           to look at it, and continue to build on that 

20           as we move along.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  And I guess 

22           to follow up on that question, particularly 

23           with OMNY service now in almost full effect, 

24           if you would, how is the integration with the 


                                                                   211

 1           app and now being able to pay for your 

 2           transportation through the app going to work, 

 3           if possible?

 4                  MTA CCO RIEARA:  Well, that's further 

 5           down the line.  

 6                  But, I mean, we are now focused on 

 7           OMNY penetration and getting people to use 

 8           OMNY.  We have lots of customer messaging.  

 9           There's no shortage of -- you enter the 

10           system, OMNY is everywhere.  And we have 

11           moved away from the concept to the 

12           physical -- just encouraging people to tap.  

13           Because before, people were like, what is 

14           OMNY?  Do I have to sign up for something?  

15           Do I have to download something?

16                  So we are now really focusing on the 

17           mechanics and letting people know how to use 

18           it.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  Thank you so 

20           much.  I'll be in touch.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you 

22           very much.

23                  This concludes the questioning of the 

24           MTA.  Well done.  Thank you very much for 


                                                                   212

 1           being here.  We appreciate it.  And I'm sure 

 2           there may be some follow-ups from various 

 3           people, and we'll get in touch with you.  We 

 4           appreciate all your time.

 5                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  So and just in 

 6           closing, may I just remind everybody that we 

 7           are doing tours, regularly, of the system to 

 8           try to familiarize everybody with the 

 9           conditions that we're all talking about that 

10           are reflected in this 20-year needs 

11           assessment.

12                  So Mr. Comrie, thank you for coming to 

13           several of those.  We just invite everybody 

14           to come and take a look at -- because this is 

15           going to be an important capital program.  We 

16           want you to see what we're all dealing with 

17           as we head into next year.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay, thank you 

19           very much.

20                  MTA CHAIR LIEBER:  Thank you.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And we want DOT 

22           to come on in.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  DOT, come on 

24           down.


                                                                   213

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And also, please, 

 2           if any legislators have questions for the 

 3           MTA, take them out in the hallway so we 

 4           aren't delaying moving forward with the 

 5           Department of Transportation.  

 6                  (Off the record.)

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Commissioner, 

 8           you're sitting there all by yourself.  I'm 

 9           impressed.  I am very impressed.

10                  Listen, if you're ready to go, we're 

11           ready to start.  The floor is yours, ma'am.

12                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Good 

13           afternoon, Chairpersons Krueger, Kennedy, 

14           Magnarelli, and members of the Legislature.  

15           On behalf of Governor Kathy Hochul, I'd like 

16           to thank you for inviting me here to talk 

17           about the State Department of Transportation, 

18           our people, the communities we serve, and how 

19           the work that we do makes a positive 

20           difference in the lives of all New Yorkers.  

21                  I'd like to begin by saluting the 

22           dedicated members of the DOT team, who are 

23           always there, regardless of the challenge.  

24           For the last two weeks our crews have been 


                                                                   214

 1           working around the clock to clear relentless 

 2           amounts of snow in Watertown and the North 

 3           Country, and certainly in Buffalo, where I 

 4           saw firsthand the great lengths they'll go to 

 5           ensure the safety of the communities that 

 6           they serve.  

 7                  Our people are the heart and soul of 

 8           our agency.  They make me enormously proud, 

 9           and they deserve our thanks. 

10                  I like to think of transportation 

11           acrss New York as an integrated system.  No 

12           matter if it's transit, rail, aviation, roads 

13           and bridges, or bike and pedestrian pathways, 

14           all these systems are working together to 

15           better the lives of New Yorkers.  At the 

16           heart of all of this is the Department of 

17           Transportation.  And thanks to your support, 

18           we accomplished a great deal last year.

19                  Because of Governor Hochul's 

20           leadership and your continued support, 

21           New York is investing more in its 

22           infrastructure than at any time in our 

23           history.  Our department is busy putting 

24           these investments to work.  


                                                                   215

 1                  In 2023 alone, we improved 1586 lane 

 2           miles along state and local highways.  That 

 3           represents $754 million of investment in our 

 4           roadways.  The resurfacing included over 

 5           500 lane miles of improvements that were 

 6           funded from Governor Hochul's Pave Our 

 7           Potholes program.

 8                  Additionally, New York State DOT 

 9           replaced or improved 2,833 bridges statewide, 

10           totaling $1.7 billion worth of investment 

11           that enhanced safety, improved 

12           sustainability, and boosted resiliency 

13           against severe weather impacts.

14                  In the face of a litany of challenges 

15           this past year, DOT executed projects across 

16           the state under our five-year capital plan 

17           while planning forward for the future of 

18           New York's transportation system with the 

19           kickoff of our statewide master plan, 

20           currently in development and in process.

21                  From the Bronx to Buffalo, New York is 

22           reconnecting communities in innovative ways 

23           to carry out Governor Hochul's vision not 

24           only for what transportation is, but what it 


                                                                   216

 1           could be and what it will be.

 2                  This past summer we announced the 

 3           completion of Phase 2 and the beginning of 

 4           Phase 3 of our Hunts Point Improvement 

 5           Project, which rehabilitated and created new 

 6           connections on key sections of the 

 7           Bruckner Expressway and Bruckner Boulevard to 

 8           establish a more direct route to the Hunts 

 9           Point Market and also to provide a shared-use 

10           path to create added opportunities for 

11           walking and biking.  

12                  We broke ground on the transformative 

13           Interstate 81 Viaduct project in Syracuse, 

14           which will reconnect the city's divided 

15           neighborhoods and create a community grid 

16           that will enhance mobility throughout the 

17           region and improve access to the city's 

18           downtown destinations.  

19                  We're also advancing reconnecting 

20           communities projects like the Kensington 

21           Expressway in Buffalo and the replacement of 

22           the Livingston Avenue rail bridge in the 

23           Capital Region, both of which will create a 

24           greener, more sustainable transportation 


                                                                   217

 1           system that will enhance quality of life for 

 2           the communities that they serve.

 3                  And this year the Executive Budget 

 4           provides nearly $7.6 billion for the third 

 5           year of a record $32.8 billion, five-year 

 6           capital plan to facilitate capital 

 7           improvements on highways, bridges, rail, 

 8           aviation infrastructure, non-MTA transit, and 

 9           DOT facilities.  In the first year of the 

10           five-year capital plan, $230 million was 

11           provided to enhance nine regional airports 

12           upstate, and an additional award of 

13           $49 million was made in 2023 for 

14           36 public-use airports across New York.  

15                  Additionally, the Executive Budget 

16           provides $8.8 billion in mass transit 

17           operating support, including $551 million to 

18           non-MTA downstate transit systems and 

19           $323 million to upstate transit systems, a 

20           5.4 percent increase in transit operating 

21           assistance.

22                  We're also working aggressively to 

23           implement the goals of the Climate Leadership 

24           and Community Protection Act.  In partnership 


                                                                   218

 1           with NYPA and NYSERDA, DOT is a national 

 2           leader in leveraging the $175 million 

 3           New York will receive over the next five 

 4           years for the National Electric Vehicle 

 5           Infrastructure program, to further advance EV 

 6           charging infrastructure on our interstate 

 7           highways.  This December, New York became one 

 8           of two states to open the nation's first 

 9           NEVI-funded EV charging stations.  

10                  Smart climate policies also mean 

11           building a resilient infrastructure for the 

12           future, which is why we're investing 

13           $1 billion in bridges and culverts under the 

14           capital plan through the Bridge NY program.  

15           The first round of Bridge NY funds made 

16           available went to 115 bridge projects and 

17           101 culvert projects.  The second round 

18           kicked off this past November, and 

19           municipalities are making their project 

20           recommendations right now.  

21                  The department also has initiated a 

22           statewide culvert resiliency program, known 

23           as CRoSS, which will ultimately improve 

24           resiliency at 422 locations around the state.


                                                                   219

 1                  Building for a greener future also 

 2           means encouraging other forms of 

 3           transportation beyond cars.  That's why we're 

 4           advocating and advancing DOT's Active 

 5           Transportation Plan, which will focus on how 

 6           we enhance and develop pedestrian and bicycle 

 7           infrastructure.  

 8                  Last year DOT received $5 million for 

 9           Complete Streets planning that is now being 

10           used to support projects in communities 

11           interested in improving bicycle and 

12           pedestrian opportunities in underserved 

13           communities across the state.  

14                  Let me also mention that DOT inspects 

15           our bridges across New York State every two 

16           years to make sure that not only are they 

17           safe, but that they are in good working 

18           order.  And after the pandemic-related 

19           delays, we've posted all the results of those 

20           inspections and the conditions on our 

21           website, and they are available.

22                  Let me close where I began, with our 

23           workers, because nothing is more important to 

24           us than the safety of our DOT team members.  


                                                                   220

 1           In April, legislation adopted by the 

 2           Legislature and signed by Governor Hochul 

 3           allowed DOT to work with the industry, 

 4           organized labor, and the Thruway Authority to 

 5           kick off the Automated Work Zone Speed 

 6           Monitoring Pilot Program to help enforce 

 7           speed limits in highway construction and 

 8           maintenance work zones across the state.

 9                  Through the end of December, the 

10           department issued more than 102,000 notices 

11           of violations to motorists, including one who 

12           was clocked at going 139 miles per hour -- 

13           139 miles per hour on Route 104 in the 

14           Town of Irondequoit.  This was matched by a 

15           similar speed on Long Island, on the 

16           Long Island Expressway.  

17                  We're currently collecting and 

18           analyzing all the data, but our workers are 

19           already reporting a noticeable reduction in 

20           overall speeds at our work sites.  I look 

21           forward to continuing this pilot program in 

22           the coming construction season, because we 

23           know it's making a difference.  And we'll be 

24           reporting back to the Legislature on our 


                                                                   221

 1           findings.  

 2                  What I've laid out today is just a 

 3           small sample of the work our team at the 

 4           New York State Department of Transportation 

 5           undertakes each day as we fulfill our mission 

 6           to provide a safe, reliable, equitable, and 

 7           resilient transportation system that connects 

 8           communities, protects the environment, 

 9           enhances quality of life, and supports the 

10           economic well-being of the State of New York.  

11           We're proud to be a partner in building a 

12           better future for all New Yorkers.  

13                  Thank you again for the opportunity to 

14           join you today.  I'm happy to answer any 

15           questions.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you 

17           very much, Commissioner.  

18                  And I'm going to start off the 

19           questioning here, and not really on -- thank 

20           you for all the things that you covered.  I'm 

21           sure there's a lot of questions there.  I'm 

22           sure I have a lot of questions.  But I'm 

23           going to get to a couple of things that are 

24           kind of questions to me, okay?


                                                                   222

 1                  First of all, in the Governor's budget 

 2           there is a proposed sale of property in the 

 3           Town of Babylon.  Okay?  And this is a kind 

 4           of an ideal -- a theoretical, philosophical 

 5           problem.  There's a proposed Article VII 

 6           provision that would authorize DOT to 

 7           transfer and convey certain state-owned 

 8           property within the Town of Babylon, 

 9           Suffolk County, upon such terms and 

10           conditions as the commissioner deems 

11           appropriate.  

12                  Are the parcels identified in the 

13           Article VII considered surplus property?  And 

14           if they are surplus property, why aren't they 

15           being handled through the surplus property 

16           process already in place?  What does the 

17           department plan to do with this property?  Is 

18           there already an agreement to use this land, 

19           and if so, what?

20                  The language of the proposal lacks a 

21           number of provisions which were included in 

22           prior chapters involving a DOT land transfer 

23           and conveyance -- for example, specifying the 

24           entity to which the transfer is being made, a 


                                                                   223

 1           stated public purpose, a set time for 

 2           application and closing, and reversion of the 

 3           land to the state if the land ceases to be 

 4           used for state public purposes.  

 5                  Is there any reason for omitting these 

 6           provisions?  And if so, could you walk us 

 7           through it?  Also, we'd like to have a copy 

 8           of the tax map showing the two parcels 

 9           proposed to be transferred by this 

10           Article VII.  That we could do later.  But 

11           basically you see what I'm getting at.

12                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Mm-hmm.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  So can you 

14           fill us in?

15                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Sure.

16                  I think the overall intent of the 

17           legislation is to make sure that there's 

18           provisions in law to actually do any transfer 

19           of DOT property correctly.  And under the 

20           provisions of law right now, there has to be 

21           some additional clarification.  So that was 

22           the intent, was to try and make sure that we 

23           had it in --

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  But, I mean, 


                                                                   224

 1           any other state --

 2                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We're 

 3           happy to work with you --

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  -- state 

 5           agency or -- for example, the Department of 

 6           Education or whatever, if they own a piece of 

 7           property, it has to go through a certain 

 8           process.  And the people of the State of 

 9           New York have to know who you're selling it 

10           to, what are the terms, what are the purposes 

11           for which we're giving away this land -- I'm 

12           not saying giving away -- or selling land.  

13           What are the terms.

14                  So you're basically saying this is 

15           just a change, you want an overall change.

16                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  What 

17           we're looking for is to make sure that we 

18           have the opportunity to look at whatever 

19           conveyance may be available.  

20                  And so we would do it in full 

21           transparency.  Happy to work with you on the 

22           legislation and how it actually is phrased.  

23           But making sure that any conveyance of DOT 

24           property not only looks at current state 


                                                                   225

 1           provisions, but also the federal provisions.  

 2           We also have to abide by that in case any of 

 3           the property was actually purchased with 

 4           federal dollars.

 5                  So we're looking for a framework to 

 6           make sure that we actually convey it 

 7           properly.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  I'm 

 9           not getting any specifics on the sale of 

10           property to Babylon -- from Babylon or to 

11           Babylon or whatever.

12                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, I 

13           think part of it is to actually look to 

14           see -- it's not just the Town of Babylon, but 

15           there's other opportunities across the state 

16           to look at --

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Can you tell 

18           me what the reason for this is at this point 

19           in time?  

20                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, as 

21           the Governor outlined in her proposal, in her 

22           State of the State proposal, there are state 

23           properties across the state that could be 

24           looked at for either housing or other 


                                                                   226

 1           opportunities to actually make sure that we 

 2           are addressing the economic development 

 3           concerns, other -- wider.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  And I don't 

 5           think I have a problem with those types of 

 6           purposes if in fact we're going to build out 

 7           more units for the people of the State of 

 8           New York.  But I'd like to know who's going 

 9           to own those units, what is the sales price 

10           of the property, the particulars of what is 

11           going on in that.

12                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So, sir, 

13           I don't think any of those have been 

14           developed at this point in time, to my 

15           knowledge.  I think this is simply a 

16           conveyance mechanism to make sure that should 

17           something be developed in the future, there's 

18           legislation in place to make sure that the 

19           State Department of Transportation has the 

20           legal authority to actually transfer 

21           property.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  But 

23           you're taking away the oversight that's 

24           already built into the laws to look at these 


                                                                   227

 1           things before the property is transferred.  

 2           And so -- I mean, that's the proposal.  

 3           You're not doing it, Commissioner.  But I 

 4           mean that's the proposal in the Article VII, 

 5           is basically to say the commissioner can make 

 6           the determination.  Okay?

 7                  Right now there are procedures that 

 8           have to be gone through, and you're looking 

 9           to bypass those procedures.

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'd be 

11           happy to sit down and go through with you -- 

12           I know you're a property expert.  I know you 

13           are.  I know that you're a real -- literally, 

14           real property expert.  But to be clear on 

15           what the intent and the purpose is.  It's not 

16           to bypass.  It's literally to provide some --

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  I think 

18           that's what I'm asking.  You know, what is 

19           the intent.  I'm not saying anything's wrong 

20           here.  But maybe there's a procedure whereby 

21           the Legislature and the public gets to know 

22           beforehand --

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  

24           Absolutely.


                                                                   228

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  -- what's 

 2           being transferred.

 3                  Okay, another question, something 

 4           that's really bothering me.  I was reading in 

 5           a New York Times article I think this 

 6           weekend -- I believe it was this weekend.  

 7           Sometimes I save these things too long -- but 

 8           talking about dangerous driving.  Now, you 

 9           alluded to what happened when we put up the 

10           pilot program in the work zones, okay?  All 

11           right.  Based on recent articles, it appears 

12           that there are greater traffic fatalities, 

13           incidents of speeding, distracted driving, 

14           et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.  It's not 

15           only on our state highways, it's on our city 

16           streets.

17                  What is the department doing to combat 

18           these trends?  Has the department noticed an 

19           increase in these statistics too?

20                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We have.  

21           This is a nationwide trend.  And I can tell 

22           you the level of distraction across the board 

23           is manifested in a whole bunch of different 

24           ways, from the excessive speeds that I just 


                                                                   229

 1           noted in our work zones -- and again, we're 

 2           grateful to the Legislature and 

 3           Governor Hochul for the opportunity to 

 4           pilot automated work zone speed enforcement.  

 5           We really do think it's making a huge 

 6           difference.

 7                  When we look at bridge hits across the 

 8           state, people are not paying attention -- or 

 9           if they are, they're paying attention to 

10           their GPS device and it's giving them 

11           incorrect information.  There is an enorm -- 

12           and pedestrians, even, are not paying 

13           attention when they're walking across the 

14           street.

15                  In the post-COVID environment we have 

16           seen an incredible amount of distracted as 

17           well as aggressive driving.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Aggressive 

19           driving, that was the article.  It was mostly 

20           aggressive driving.  And, you know, venting 

21           on the road, so to speak.

22                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So part 

23           of what we're doing is not only making sure 

24           that we're taking a very holistic approach as 


                                                                   230

 1           we design roadways, whether that's a 

 2           Complete Streets view of everything to make 

 3           sure that pedestrian, bike, motorist, truck, 

 4           everyone's got a clear view from geometric 

 5           levels as well as, you know, safe crossings, 

 6           crosswalks, lighting, et cetera -- that whole 

 7           view, that holistic view of roadway 

 8           construction.  But more importantly, to help 

 9           with education and information sharing and 

10           enforcement.

11                  So I can tell you we're working with 

12           the Governor's Traffic Safety Council and 

13           other entities to make sure that the level of 

14           enforcement and awareness for people is 

15           there.  So whether that's e-bike safety on 

16           speeds or bridge hits -- we've got a task 

17           force looking at that, to actually do some 

18           additional enforcement and education -- but 

19           also just general awareness for people who 

20           are using our roadways.  Our VMS signs, we're 

21           trying to do everything we can to bring 

22           awareness to the driver to pay attention.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  I agree with 

24           you wholeheartedly.  You know how I feel 


                                                                   231

 1           about cameras:  Bring them on.  I'm okay with 

 2           that.  You know, I don't understand -- we 

 3           need to get speed down in many places.  I 

 4           think being distracted and speeding 

 5           definitely don't work together.  So I 

 6           appreciate those comments.

 7                  Next I'm going to turn it over to my 

 8           good Senator next to me, Senator Krueger.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

10           much.  Good afternoon.  

11                  And I'm going to hand it over to our 

12           Transportation chair, Timothy Kennedy.

13                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you, 

14           Chairwoman.  Commissioner, welcome.  Thank 

15           you.  Thank you for your testimony.  Thank 

16           you for your work.  You and your team have 

17           been great partners and have been very 

18           responsive anytime myself and my team have 

19           reached out.  So we certainly appreciate that 

20           responsiveness and your partnership and 

21           leadership.  

22                  I've got a lot to talk about with you, 

23           so I'm going to get right to it.  You know, 

24           in 2022 we approved the $32.8 billion 


                                                                   232

 1           five-year capital plan.  Can you provide us 

 2           with an update on the implementation of that 

 3           plan and speak to the new needs that have 

 4           arisen?

 5                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So with 

 6           regard to the capital plan, indeed it was a 

 7           record-level capital plan, 32.8 billion to a 

 8           committed five-year capital plan.  

 9                  One, we're very grateful.  

10                  Two, it represented an increase of 

11           about $9.4 billion, or 40.2 percent, over the 

12           prior five-year capital plan.  It provided 

13           steady funding, which the Department of 

14           Transportation is executing on.  It provided 

15           an unprecedented level of state support for 

16           local governments -- so $6.1 billion over the 

17           five-year period, which is about a 

18           3.4 billion increase over the previous plan.  

19                  So what I mean by local, I mean CHIPS, 

20           PAVE, EWR, all of those dollars increased 

21           under this five-year capital plan.  It 

22           allocates about a $1.4 billion amount over 

23           the period for renewal and modernization of 

24           not just our roads and bridges, but also 


                                                                   233

 1           public transportation, passenger rail and 

 2           freight rail, as well as airport 

 3           infrastructure.  

 4                  And in the process, DOT is executing 

 5           on that.  We've gotten Year 1 down, Year 2 

 6           down in the first and second years of the 

 7           five-year program.  We have about 

 8           5,474 rehabilitated or improved bridges, 

 9           117 bridges have been completely 

10           reconstructed, 3700 lane miles of pavement 

11           have been constructed and improved in the 

12           first two years.  

13                  And what we anticipate for this coming 

14           year is about 100 bridges are going to be 

15           constructed, and 2700 bridges are going to be 

16           improved.

17                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you, 

18           Commissioner.  Let me continue, because we're 

19           short on time.

20                  Talk to me and us about the 

21           inflationary pressures that have impacted the 

22           execution of the plan.

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, 

24           like everything, you know, inflation has 


                                                                   234

 1           impacted the world of transportation and 

 2           certainly transportation infrastructure, 

 3           along with supply chain issues. 

 4                  That said, it has not stopped the 

 5           department from executing on the capital plan 

 6           as laid out, both Year 1, Year 2, and now 

 7           we're in the process of executing Year 3.

 8                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  That said, do you 

 9           believe that further funding is necessary to 

10           execute the plan?

11                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  What 

12           we're doing right now is monitoring the 

13           inflationary rates.  We've seen that 

14           inflation has steadied over the last 

15           half-year, and look to see what the overall 

16           impacts are on the course of the program.

17                  And again, execute what we have.  It's 

18           a funded capital plan.  And work with the 

19           Legislature as we -- you know, and we're 

20           doing it according to the provisions of the 

21           MOU.

22                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  So it's a five-year 

23           plan, and inflation that has been in the 

24           double digits -- some estimates, over 


                                                                   235

 1           20 percent -- that would cut into a capital 

 2           plan greatly. 

 3                  So, you know, we have been working 

 4           diligently to identify a number.  We believe 

 5           that number is $400 million -- I know that 

 6           we've been in conversations about this, and 

 7           others -- in order to rectify that inflation 

 8           hole that's been created.  Is that a number 

 9           that you think you could work with to help 

10           that gap that's been created?

11                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Senator, 

12           I think, as I said before, what we're trying 

13           to do is work across the board to monitor the 

14           impacts of inflation and see how that will 

15           actually play out over the course of the 

16           entirety of the five-year capital plan, 

17           because many things happen, and work to see 

18           exactly what the funding levels would be 

19           across the board.

20                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you.

21                  So last year we increased CHIPS 

22           funding and State Touring Routes funding by 

23           $100 million.  That was taken away in the 

24           budget that was proposed.  Obviously we want 


                                                                   236

 1           to see that restored.  We are going to be 

 2           working to restore that.  I think the 

 3           communities need it.  And I think a 

 4           demonstration of the need for that isn't just 

 5           on the conditions but also when you see the 

 6           weather patterns that you cited in your 

 7           testimony -- again, thank you for your 

 8           leadership in responding in Buffalo and 

 9           Western New York.  Just last week we know 

10           that the DOT came in to be very helpful to 

11           the local community.

12                  That being said, it's those quick 

13           thaws, quick freezing moments that are, you 

14           know, wreaking havoc on our roads and our 

15           infrastructure.  But this isn't just Western 

16           New York, this is statewide.

17                  Do you feel that you have the proper 

18           amount of funding necessary to resolve these 

19           local road issues already?

20                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I know 

21           that at the end of last session the 

22           Legislature and the Executive agreed to the 

23           add that you referenced for those programs.  

24           You know, I expect that anything along those 


                                                                   237

 1           lines will again take place amongst the 

 2           Legislature and the Executive for those 

 3           dollars.

 4                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  So we have to 

 5           negotiate it.  We expect to do that.  Thank 

 6           you.  

 7                  I want to switch gears here.  You 

 8           mentioned the recent reports that were put 

 9           out.  Can you just speak to those again and 

10           the conditions and what you're seeing and, 

11           you know, just sort of the makeup of the 

12           report that was released?

13                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So we 

14           have a variety of reports that we look at 

15           across the board for the Department of 

16           Transportation.  The one that you're 

17           referencing is the Graber Report; it's on 

18           bridge conditions.  We were delayed in 

19           getting the report out.  It is now posted on 

20           our website, it's fully -- it's up there.  

21           And it does speak to the state of the overall 

22           condition of our bridges.

23                  I will say that the bottom line is 

24           that the Department of Transportation in 


                                                                   238

 1           New York State, we inspect our bridges every 

 2           two years.  We have eyes on them.  We want to 

 3           make sure that they're safe, and that goes 

 4           for local bridges as well.  And I will say 

 5           that, you know, I sit at the national level 

 6           as well; there are a lot of states that don't 

 7           inspect bridges as frequently as we do.  

 8                  So we collect an enormous amount of 

 9           data, and we're very informed on our asset 

10           management practices, so we look at what 

11           needs to be addressed based on what we're 

12           finding, the safety factors, et cetera.  So 

13           that's -- it helps us inform how we actually 

14           allocate our dollars and how we actually 

15           allocate our priorities.

16                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you.

17                  The New York State Public Transit 

18           Association has been coalescing around a 

19           15 percent increase in STOA for non-MTA 

20           regions of the state.  What's been proposed 

21           is less than that.  Has the DOT looked at 

22           revenue enhancements to meet that higher 

23           number to achieve a larger increase for STOA?

24                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, as 


                                                                   239

 1           you know, the non-MTA areas -- first of all, 

 2           MTA, as you heard directly from them this 

 3           morning, they've got different ways of 

 4           actually collecting monies directly from 

 5           localities to actually fund their programs in 

 6           different ways than the upstate systems do.

 7                  And so when you talk about on-budget, 

 8           off-budget revenue collections, it is 

 9           different.  And we have provided, over the 

10           years, and have had a lot of consultation 

11           with the upstate transit systems on how 

12           exactly we can further improve and look at 

13           some other revenue sources.

14                  I think that discussion needs to 

15           continue.  There's -- you know, there's a 

16           larger debate here on how do you actually pay 

17           for these systems.  But I think this 

18           Executive Budget that Governor Hochul put 

19           forward is a huge step in the right direction 

20           with the increase that she did put forward, a 

21           5.4 percent increase for upstate transit 

22           systems.

23                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Yeah, look, a 

24           dedicated revenue source is so important 


                                                                   240

 1           because we know what we've seen already with 

 2           the rental car fee that goes directly into 

 3           public transit.  It has certainly boosted the 

 4           amount of funding that upstate transit's been 

 5           able to achieve on a year-to-year basis.

 6                  Along those same lines as well, as it 

 7           pertains to public transit -- and I'm just 

 8           going to talk very hyperlocal here in the 

 9           last remaining moments here -- the NFTA has 

10           the only light rail outside of the City of 

11           New York in the State of New York, and that 

12           rail is looking at a new five-year capital 

13           plan for $150 million.  They are also looking 

14           at a need for a sustained level of funding.  

15           What can we do to make that happen?

16                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'll say 

17           that, you know, the --

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Sorry, 

19           that's -- you're going to have to get back to 

20           the good Senator.

21                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  We'll come back to 

22           it.  We'll come back to it in Round 2, okay?

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Yeah.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Next we're 


                                                                   241

 1           going to have Member Miller, who is sitting 

 2           in for the ranking member on the 

 3           Transportation Committee, so he will be 

 4           taking the place of the chair. 

 5                  Mr. Miller.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MILLER:  Thank you, 

 7           Mr. Magnarelli.

 8                  Thank you, Chairman.  We've had many, 

 9           many conversations about CHIPS, about 

10           bridges, about highways.  And I know the 

11           Senator talked about CHIPS funding over 

12           there, but I'm going to talk about it some 

13           more.

14                  And I'm just going to make a 

15           statement, and I've heard this when I first 

16           came here to the Assembly.  We barely fund 

17           our highways and bridges to manage the 

18           decline.  And that's how I've felt for a long 

19           time in New York State.  You know, we've been 

20           on a decline, and we need to fund our bridge 

21           and road programs in a much higher rate.  

22                  So the questions.  You know, the 

23           Governor's proposed a 10 percent decrease to 

24           CHIPS funding.  With inflation about 


                                                                   242

 1           25 percent, construction and materials, are 

 2           you concerned that the Executive Budget has 

 3           no increases to and actually reduces the 

 4           support for local roads and bridge programs?

 5                  You know, I come from the town 

 6           supervisor at the county level, and our 

 7           localities rely on these CHIPS programs for 

 8           all their highway work.  What's your feelings 

 9           on it?

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, I 

11           can tell you that -- I'll state what I stated 

12           before, which is that when you look at the 

13           totality of this five-year program that we 

14           have, capital program, it is truly historic.  

15           I understand what you're saying about the -- 

16           you know, there was an add last year.

17                  But the bottom line is is having five 

18           years' worth of consistent funding that -- in 

19           an agreed-upon MOU between the Legislature 

20           and the Executive on how to spend those 

21           dollars statewide, is truly a good place to 

22           be, in the sense that we know what the assets 

23           are, we know what the condition is, we are -- 

24           we have planned for where we're going, we 


                                                                   243

 1           know how we can spend.  There's certainty in 

 2           that process both for the state and for the 

 3           local entities, local DPWs.

 4                  And we can take on those assets' road 

 5           and bridge conditions across the state by 

 6           having that certainty in the funding.  And 

 7           with that, we can plan accordingly.  And 

 8           that's what we've done.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MILLER:  Okay, just 

10           looking at the five-year plan, and not having 

11           a crystal ball in front of us, you know, a 

12           lot of the planning engineers, whoever, were 

13           able to come up with a dollar figure, not 

14           based on a 25 percent increase in materials 

15           and construction costs.  And, you know, the 

16           cost of petroleum has gone up, which reduces 

17           the amount of lane miles that we can pave.  

18                  Do you feel that should have been 

19           adjusted or there should have been an 

20           adjustment along the way a little bit?

21                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We 

22           actually, for New York State DOT, and working 

23           with our contractors, we have actually 

24           adjusted for some of those inflationary costs 


                                                                   244

 1           for fuel and materials in our prices, 

 2           recognizing what's happened over the course 

 3           of this last year.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN MILLER:  Okay, we're going 

 5           to switch over to my second favorite topic, 

 6           which is bridges and structures.  I know we 

 7           had a discussion on this the other day.

 8                  The Governor has proposed $200 million 

 9           for BRIDGE NY this year, the same as last 

10           year.  Is this efficient, given that 1580 of 

11           the bridges throughout the state, 9 percent 

12           of our bridge assets, are 

13           classified structurally deficient?

14                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So, first 

15           of all, that number represents 100 million 

16           more, year over year, in this five-year plan.  

17           It's a billion dollars worth of investment in 

18           bridges.  It is the most significant 

19           investment in bridges statewide that we've 

20           ever seen.

21                  We're matching the federal dollars 

22           that we received from the bipartisan 

23           infrastructure legislation with a record 

24           amount at the state level.  And it's truly a 


                                                                   245

 1           historic level of investment.

 2                  Given that, we actually have to, 

 3           again, utilize our asset management system to 

 4           make sure that those dollars are going to 

 5           make sure that we're addressing the safety 

 6           issues first across our entire inventory of 

 7           bridges.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MILLER:  Okay.  We all 

 9           know that we're going to see a sea of orange 

10           here in a few weeks asking for additional 

11           CHIPS funding put back there, and hopefully 

12           we can get back there, Commissioner.  And I'm 

13           sure you agree on that.

14                  Thank you.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Done.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay, so now we 

17           are handing it over to our Authorities chair, 

18           Corporations and Authorities, Leroy Comrie.

19                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Good afternoon, 

20           Commissioner.  Happy New Year.  

21                  I wanted to -- can you tell us if the 

22           department is meeting its MWBE goal of 

23           30 percent, and what percentage is being 

24           achieved?  And can you provide the 


                                                                   246

 1           participation rates by DOT region?

 2                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Sir, I 

 3           can tell you that we are -- we're doing a lot 

 4           on our MWBE and DBE goals.  We are getting 

 5           closer every year, but the percentage of 

 6           increase is incremental, and we're working on 

 7           it right now.  

 8                  Two of the things that we have done is 

 9           create a WorkSmart NY program where we're 

10           literally going to every single community 

11           around the state to engage our MWBE partners 

12           and talk to them specifically one on one, and 

13           in forums, to talk about how we do business 

14           with New York State DOT.  We've put 

15           provisions in some of our very large 

16           contracts that we're executing right now to 

17           really go aggressively after both diversity 

18           hiring goals as well as MWBE participation in 

19           some of our larger contracts like the 

20           Syracuse contract on I-81.

21                  All of that said, we've got more work 

22           to do.  We're also executing a mentoring 

23           program this year to try and make sure that 

24           we're working -- we're matching those larger 


                                                                   247

 1           companies with companies that are interested 

 2           in doing transportation work.  Because there 

 3           is opportunity, and we need to grow that 

 4           opportunity.

 5                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And you can send us 

 6           the specific numbers later.

 7                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Yes.

 8                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.

 9                  Two other questions.  I thought I had 

10           10 minutes.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  You do.

12                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Okay, good.

13                  Can you tell us so that we can make 

14           sure that New Yorkers that are now getting 

15           these automatic speed ticketing fines -- how 

16           are they notified of this ticketing issue?

17                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  The 

18           automated work zone speed cameras?  There's a 

19           notice of violation that's sent, it's a 

20           picture that's taken of the license plate, 

21           and it's sent directly to the license plate 

22           owner.

23                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Okay.  And will there 

24           be an opportunity for those speed camera 


                                                                   248

 1           locations to be discoverable on Google Maps 

 2           or --

 3                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Every day 

 4           that we are working -- every day that cameras 

 5           are posted in a work zone, it is -- we put it 

 6           on our website, New York State DOT website.  

 7           Everybody can see exactly where the cameras 

 8           are going to be statewide during construction 

 9           season.  So it's very transparent.

10                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And just another 

11           question on ticketing and fines.

12                  Have we been able to integrate your 

13           fine issues and ticketing resolution with the 

14           Thruway Authority and MTA?  As has been 

15           stated by a few members earlier, we have a 

16           major problem with people getting really 

17           major fines and fees that are leveraged upon 

18           them when they miss or a credit card has 

19           expired and they're not aware of it.  

20           Sometimes they wind up with thousands of 

21           dollars in fees, and then the fines are 

22           triple that, and they just can't afford to 

23           pay it.

24                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We don't 


                                                                   249

 1           have the same type of system that the MTA and 

 2           the Thruway are using.  We're doing an 

 3           immediate notice of violation, and it's 

 4           basically a ticket with a set amount and it 

 5           goes directly to the person that received the 

 6           infraction.  

 7                  And then we're working through local 

 8           government, local county judges for 

 9           enforcement, as opposed to some of the 

10           infractions where if you don't pay, some of 

11           the other collection services that the 

12           Thruway and MTA have.

13                  SENATOR COMRIE:  So people wind up 

14           with thousands of dollars in fees.  Is there 

15           a percentage or a process for them to be able 

16           to eradicate some of the fines?

17                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  There is, 

18           but I don't have the details of it and I'll 

19           have to get back to you.

20                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.

21                  And just help me out, what's the 

22           stated percentage of good repair that you 

23           estimate that's within the state roadwork 

24           now?


                                                                   250

 1                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  How much 

 2           we're collecting?

 3                  SENATOR COMRIE:  No, just the 

 4           percentage of roadways that are in a state of 

 5           good repair within the state or that need 

 6           repair coming.  Of the roadways and bridges 

 7           especially upstate, how many of them are in a 

 8           state of good repair?

 9                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Right now 

10           the state of good repair for our roads across 

11           the board is -- we probably have close to 

12           75 percent of our roads are in good or 

13           excellent condition.

14                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And then I ask this 

15           question every year.  Are you embedding fiber 

16           into your roads, especially upstate where 

17           they need last-mile, first-mile opportunities 

18           for wifi?

19                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We are.  

20           We've been working very aggressively with 

21           fibre companies in particular to carry out 

22           the Governor's statewide initiative to 

23           include broadband and fiber-optic 

24           opportunities for people both in rural and 


                                                                   251

 1           urban areas.  And so we've streamlined our 

 2           processes in a number of ways in working with 

 3           the fiber companies, including putting 

 4           surveys online --

 5                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Do you have an 

 6           estimate of how many -- how much roadway was 

 7           done, how many miles were done with fiber 

 8           optics?  

 9                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I don't, 

10           but I can get back to you.

11                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And can you explain 

12           DOT's policy on projecting asset use, the 

13           level of service, when prioritizing funding 

14           and preparing capital plans?

15                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'm so 

16           sorry, sir, I'm having a really tough time 

17           hearing you.

18                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Can you explain DOT's 

19           policy on projecting asset use, called level 

20           of service, when prioritizing funding and 

21           preparing your capital plan?

22                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So our 

23           level of service literally goes through -- 

24           it's one of the components that we look at in 


                                                                   252

 1           our asset management process.  So how many 

 2           vehicle miles traveled, the -- you know, the 

 3           density of the population, a whole bunch of 

 4           factors that go into it.

 5                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And what percentage 

 6           of capital projects that you're doing 

 7           currently use design-build procurement?  

 8                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, it 

 9           depends on the project itself and whether or 

10           not -- you know, we look at what the 

11           parameters are, how we can best get what we 

12           need for the project in terms of best use of 

13           taxpayer dollars, the efficiency of the 

14           design process, and the construction process.

15                  But it's traditionally used for I 

16           would say some of our bigger projects, to 

17           make sure that we can get some of the best 

18           ideas out there as well as the best, 

19           efficient use of our funding.

20                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And --

21                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I don't 

22           have a percentage.  Is that what you asked?

23                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Yeah.

24                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  But I can 


                                                                   253

 1           get you one.

 2                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.

 3                  And just on also -- one of your 

 4           initiatives from a previous budget involved 

 5           accelerating construction lettings from the 

 6           fourth quarter to the third quarter.  Is 

 7           that -- are you still doing those, 

 8           accelerating letting statewide?  And do you 

 9           have any information on the results of that 

10           change?  And was the state able to deliver 

11           more projects at reduced cost using that 

12           methodology?

13                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  What 

14           we're doing right now is trying to get our 

15           program out as quickly as possible.  So we 

16           have accelerated a number of projects this 

17           year.  And we're getting third quarter out 

18           right now, and we're working on fourth 

19           quarter as well.  

20                  Fourth quarter is going to be 

21           extremely heavy.  A lot of projects are 

22           coming out in the fourth quarter of this 

23           fiscal year.

24                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And can you talk 


                                                                   254

 1           about the STOA funding?  I want to support my 

 2           upstate colleagues in making sure that we can 

 3           ensure that all of our upstate highways are 

 4           cleared and cleaned and maintained.  Can you 

 5           tell us about how effectively the STOA 

 6           funding was used last year?

 7                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I can't 

 8           hear you.  The what kind of funding?

 9                  SENATOR COMRIE:  The STOA funding.

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  STOA.  

11           STOA funding is being used across the board 

12           to make sure that we're working with our 

13           upstate transit colleagues on specific areas.  

14           So last year we had some specific investments 

15           on -- for some of the upstate transit 

16           projects.  All of that has been invested.

17                  We've also got an Innovative Mobility 

18           Fund that the Legislature passed, and we're 

19           executing that right now.  You'll see some 

20           announcements on that this spring.

21                  But it's a great way forward on -- the 

22           Governor continues to invest in upstate 

23           transit funding.

24                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.  And we 


                                                                   255

 1           want to continue to see that increased as 

 2           well.  It's an important part of our state's 

 3           opportunity to encourage tourism and upstate 

 4           travel.  So I hope that we can get that 

 5           increased as well.

 6                  I'm done.  

 7                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I 

 8           apologize, sir.  It just --

 9                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.  Thank you 

10           for your service, Commissioner.  Thank you.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

12                  Assembly.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member Fahy.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY:  Thank you, Chair.

15                  Thank you, Commissioner.  Appreciate 

16           all the work you're doing -- especially, as 

17           you mentioned, in meeting our climate goals.  

18           And it seems like we have a weather-related 

19           disaster every week or two, so thank you for 

20           the work of you and your very busy team.  

21           Much appreciated.

22                  Just a couple of other things.  Thank 

23           you as well for noting the traffic safety and 

24           your emphasis on speed, which is a huge 


                                                                   256

 1           issue, given the increase in pedestrian and 

 2           bike deaths.  Also thank you in your 

 3           testimony for mentioning the Livingston 

 4           Avenue Bridge, the long-overdue bridge, as 

 5           well as public transit and our need for 

 6           increased funding there.

 7                  A couple of questions, and I know 

 8           we've mentioned these a few times before, but 

 9           I think it would help to get on the record a 

10           couple of updates.

11                  The I-787 and the canal project, the 

12           reimagining, if you will.  I'm so thrilled to 

13           have got $5 million from a couple of years 

14           ago that we were able to get in the budget, 

15           and the engineering feasibility study is 

16           underway.  Can you give us just a quick 

17           update on the next steps there and when you 

18           expect to see that?  And then I've got a 

19           couple of other just updates as well.

20                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, 

21           we've been progressing the study.  And so we 

22           will look to have some additional public 

23           engagement here this spring.  But things are 

24           going well.  I mean, we've had the 


                                                                   257

 1           opportunity to talk to folks and we're on 

 2           schedule, on budget, and look forward to 

 3           continuing to develop that.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY:  Okay, so we 

 5           expect to hear more in the spring.

 6                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: 

 7           Absolutely.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY:  Terrific.

 9                  Another one, then, is Route 156, which 

10           I know you've heard about.  It's been a 

11           couple of years, you've heard, in my 

12           district.  As we mentioned previously in 

13           December, the federal Department of 

14           Transportation updated the long-awaited 

15           manual on uniform traffic control devices, 

16           MUTCD.  And I'm told that will help with this 

17           85th percentile in terms of driver speed.  

18                  Any updates on that in terms of 

19           flexibility that we might get in one of my 

20           busiest corridors that would love to see 

21           speed limit reduced, especially right there 

22           in front of Indian Ladder Farms?  

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, as 

24           you know, we're continuing to work with the 


                                                                   258

 1           community.  We've done a number of traffic 

 2           studies in that area.  And as you and I 

 3           talked about, I think there's other 

 4           enhancements outside of the MUTCD and speed.  

 5                  But the issue with regard to that area 

 6           is really fundamentally about pedestrian 

 7           safety.  People are walking across a very 

 8           heavily used roadway and -- you know, to 

 9           enjoy the orchards and picking apples and 

10           what's available there.  But we will continue 

11           to work with you and the community to see 

12           exactly how we might be able to enhance that 

13           safety feature.

14                  You know, speed is one element of it, 

15           but the other portion is really fundamentally 

16           creating safe crossing spaces.

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY:  Yes, anything 

18           that would.  It's one of the biggest tourist 

19           areas in my -- in this region, and want to 

20           make sure we don't have to wait for a serious 

21           accident.

22                  And I'm out of time.  We'll follow up 

23           with other questions.  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you 


                                                                   259

 1           very much.  Thank you.

 2                  Senator?

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator Salazar.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  May I just 

 5           say one thing before we get to the good 

 6           Senator.  We have Member Fahy who has 

 7           arrived, Members Wallace, Rivera, McDonald 

 8           and Colton also.  Thank you.  

 9                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Thank you.

10                  Thank you, Commissioner, for your 

11           testimony, for joining us today.  

12                  I want to ask, of course, about the 

13           BQE.  As New York City is planning to 

14           potentially invest billions of dollars into 

15           the city-controlled portion of the BQE, the 

16           cantilever, what is DOT's long-term vision 

17           for the majority of the BQE that is 

18           state-controlled?

19                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So as 

20           we -- we've been working very closely with 

21           the city on the triple cantilever and their 

22           environmental process to help advance that 

23           work.  And in conjunction with that, we've 

24           worked with the city on an application for a 


                                                                   260

 1           Reconnecting Communities grant, a USDOT 

 2           discretionary grant called Reconnecting 

 3           Communities.

 4                  That -- those dollars, if we were to 

 5           receive that grant, would go to further 

 6           engaging the community on what some of those 

 7           opportunities are, both north and south of 

 8           the triple cantilever, and look to see how we 

 9           could study that further.

10                  I will tell you, just from a 

11           structural standpoint, we've put over 

12           $200 million, close to $300 million in the 

13           structural integrity of the BQE, recognizing 

14           that it's such a huge, an important freight 

15           corridor across the Northeast.

16                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Excellent.  And is 

17           the state -- or what money, rather, is the 

18           state investing in potentially finding other 

19           freight alternatives, whether it's maritime 

20           shipping, freight along the future IBX, to I 

21           guess offset the -- the burden on that?

22                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  There 

23           have been a number of initiatives to look at 

24           to see how freight might be moving in and 


                                                                   261

 1           around New York City.  The city's taken on 

 2           some of that, both with some of their water 

 3           studies.  

 4                  We're also looking at freight writ 

 5           large at the state level, as part of our 

 6           larger transportation master plan.  So we'll 

 7           be taking some more of that on with regard to 

 8           freight.

 9                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Excellent.  I'm sure 

10           some of my colleagues have additional 

11           questions about the BQE, so --

12                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Okay.  

13           Thank you, Senator.

14                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Thanks, 

15           Commissioner.  

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay, we're 

17           done -- excuse me.  Thank you.  

18                  Assembly?  

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay, 

20           Chairman Ken Zebrowski is next in line.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Thanks, 

22           Commissioner.  Good to see you.

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Hello, 

24           sir.


                                                                   262

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Thanks, Chair.

 2                  The Executive Budget has $11 million 

 3           for the annual operating costs of the 

 4           Lower Hudson Transit Link, the express bus 

 5           service across the Mario Cuomo Bridge.  Could 

 6           you give us an overview of how that's 

 7           working?  You know, I worked a lot with the 

 8           department pre-COVID really trying to get 

 9           that bus service up and running.  I felt like 

10           ridership was growing, the links to the buses 

11           over on Metro-North on the Westchester side 

12           of the river, we were getting better at the 

13           links -- and then of course COVID happened.  

14                  And so I was kind of wondering, you 

15           know, since COVID, has it been growing, 

16           where's ridership, is that $11 million 

17           sufficient?  How have things been going with 

18           that program?

19                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  It's a 

20           good question.  I need to look at the 

21           ridership numbers.  I know during COVID 

22           obviously it suffered greatly.  We were 

23           actually working with the Thruway Authority 

24           during COVID to kind of encourage people to 


                                                                   263

 1           go out.  We ran some special services.  We're 

 2           still doing that to get people across the 

 3           bridge if they want to take advantage of the 

 4           bike pedaling on the Cuomo Bridge.

 5                  But that said, overall ridership I 

 6           think is -- has certainly ticked up after 

 7           COVID.  I can get you the numbers directly.  

 8           But we continue to fund it.  We think it's a 

 9           vital link and a vital service, which is why 

10           we continue to include it and the Executive 

11           continues to include it in the budget.  It's 

12           one of those options that we have to 

13           consider.  If we want to get people out of 

14           cars, we need to have the transit options 

15           that are available, and Hudson Link provides 

16           that.  And it's a great carbon emissions 

17           reduction opportunity.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Hundred 

19           percent.  I'd love to work with your 

20           office -- I don't expect you to have those 

21           numbers right now, but I'd love to work with 

22           your office on outreach for that program, 

23           letting people know about it.  Obviously on 

24           the west side of the Hudson we are so close 


                                                                   264

 1           but so far in terms of, you know, mass 

 2           transit opportunities to get over that river.  

 3           You know, the Gateway project is probably the 

 4           long-term best option, to get somebody on a 

 5           train and, you know, go over into Manhattan.  

 6                  But in the meantime, with Metro-North 

 7           right there, expanding or at least maximizing 

 8           that service and the linkage I think would be 

 9           a great -- in so many ways, great for 

10           commuters, great for the environment, great 

11           for the overall system.  So I'd love to work 

12           with you on that.

13                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'd be 

14           happy to work with you on it.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Now, in 

16           Rockland County, one of the biggest hubs for 

17           that system is on the Palisades Mall.  Which 

18           is great, there's parking lots there.  Which 

19           sort of is a link, no pun intended, to the 

20           other issue I've spoken to you about a bit on 

21           the -- it borders Route 59, which is the 

22           state highway, which has just been shut so 

23           many times due to flooding recently.  And so 

24           it's a major corridor across Rockland County, 


                                                                   265

 1           east to west, it connects to where the 

 2           Thruway is, it would affect that Hudson Link 

 3           system.

 4                  You know, I appreciate you and your 

 5           department looking into that flooding 

 6           scenario.  And just overall, what I think is 

 7           one of the issues -- and I don't know if it's 

 8           here or other places -- is I suspect, don't 

 9           know but suspect that the flooding is really 

10           not the cause of the state highway.  But it's 

11           the state highway that's being closed.  

12                  And so I think we may have to -- or 

13           your department, if you will, you know, may 

14           have to serve as the quarterback, for lack of 

15           a better metaphor, on how to fix these 

16           things, you know.  And I'd love to partner 

17           with you on it.  It may take the Army Corps 

18           of Engineers and stream dredging or stream 

19           maintenance.  It may take municipalities or 

20           the mall in terms of underground drainage.  

21           There's a train trestle there run by CSX that 

22           a lot of people think is backing up the water 

23           so it flows onto Route 59.  All these not in 

24           your purview, but somehow we need to bring 


                                                                   266

 1           folks together.

 2                  So sure, if we need to bring our 

 3           federal representatives down to talk to CSX 

 4           or to deal with the Army Corps, let's do it.  

 5           But I think -- you know, our thinking needs 

 6           to not just be siloed.  Somebody needs to 

 7           quarterback it.  And if there's other 

 8           agencies we need to push, let's push them so 

 9           that we can solve some of these problems.

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Happy to 

11           work with you on it.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Thanks.  Thank 

13           you, Commissioner.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Senator?  

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay, Senator 

16           Mattera.

17                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Great, thank you.  

18           Thank you, Chair.  

19                  And thank you, Commissioner.  It was 

20           great speaking with you yesterday.  And I 

21           really want to thank our office --

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator, one 

23           second.  

24                  He's a ranker, so he should have five 


                                                                   267

 1           minutes.  Thank you.

 2                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Oh, my goodness.  

 3           Thank you so much, Senator.  Usually you 

 4           don't give me that.

 5                  (Laughter.)

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I do too.

 7                  (Laughter.)

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Don't start up 

 9           with me.

10                  SENATOR MATTERA:  No, I'm just 

11           kidding, she's always so -- she's very 

12           wonderful.

13                  So yesterday -- and I want to thank 

14           Director Rich Causin for doing a great job 

15           down in the Long Island office.  He's always 

16           very responsive, and I really, really 

17           appreciate that.  But we -- yesterday, after 

18           we did speak, that Country Pointe issue is 

19           becoming worse.  Because obviously the 

20           coordination and the design is now going to 

21           be changed because it's going to be held up 

22           too long, and now I'm hearing the design's 

23           going to be changed.  

24                  And by the design being changed, we 


                                                                   268

 1           already got rid of -- which I was upset 

 2           about, which we spoke about -- sound walls 

 3           that should have been installed.  Now they're 

 4           looking to do away with more sound walls 

 5           because of the cost factor of the delay 

 6           because of that sewer height. 

 7                  So, Commissioner, please, these sound 

 8           walls are so important.  We need to make sure 

 9           that this area that we live in, right there, 

10           those sound walls need to be installed, and 

11           we cannot have it that the -- that just 

12           because of what's happening with 

13           Country Pointe, that we're going to be 

14           penalized because of a new design and the 

15           cost factor.  

16                  Can you please -- I have to have you 

17           on record with this one.  It's very, very 

18           important.  I know it's in litigation with 

19           the other part of it, the sewer, but this has 

20           nothing to do with the sound walls.

21                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  But it 

22           does, because it's all part of the larger 

23           contract and what we're trying to execute.  

24           And so I'm going to -- as you know, it's in 


                                                                   269

 1           litigation right now, and I'm going to have 

 2           to defer to the fact that it's literally in 

 3           litigation.

 4                  SENATOR MATTERA:  But that has nothing 

 5           to do with the sound walls, Commissioner.  We 

 6           could talk about the sewer main -- I know we 

 7           can't talk about the sewer main because 

 8           that's in litigation.  But the sound walls, 

 9           that shouldn't be penalized with my residents 

10           because of a situation that happened with the 

11           design.

12                  So I'm asking you again, we talked 

13           about the design that the walls were taken 

14           away from certain areas.  Now, because of 

15           this problem, now more walls aren't going to 

16           be installed.  So we really can talk about 

17           this, Commissioner.  And please, I really, 

18           really need you to look into this.  This is 

19           not fair to my community because of a 

20           situation that happened with the sewer main.  

21           But again, those walls do not have anything 

22           to do with this.

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'll be 

24           happy to talk with you offline again, 


                                                                   270

 1           Senator.  But again, this is part of a larger 

 2           project, all of which is combined in one 

 3           contract.

 4                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Then I'm going to 

 5           say it again, my residents are being 

 6           penalized because of a situation that 

 7           happened with something else with another -- 

 8           another community with a sewer main.

 9                  You know, we talked about the CHIPS, 

10           and the CHIPS is so, so important.  My 

11           question to you is, you know, have you been 

12           talking to the Governor's office that we're 

13           hearing about a decrease in our CHIPS 

14           funding?  I know we're going to mention that.  

15           Everybody needs to mention it here up on this 

16           panel.  Can you please give us a little 

17           heads-up what your feelings are about the 

18           decrease in CHIPS funding for this year?

19                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, I 

20           think, as I said before, the -- there's a 

21           larger concern about the fiscal state of the 

22           state.  And so reflective of that, the 

23           transportation proposal as it's been put 

24           forward reflects, as the Governor pointed 


                                                                   271

 1           out, some fiscal responsibility here across 

 2           the board.  And, you know, we have -- there 

 3           are increases certainly in upstate transit, 

 4           and looking at some of the opportunities to 

 5           invest.  

 6                  I think with regard to CHIPS, that 

 7           will continue to be a discussion between the 

 8           Legislature and the Executive moving forward 

 9           in this budget cycle.

10                  SENATOR MATTERA:  You know, you and I, 

11           we discussed also too about what's happening 

12           also in our districts, in all of them, that 

13           we have drop shipping going all -- trucks all 

14           over, all -- seven days a week, what's 

15           happening with the drop shipping.  So I do 

16           have a bill that hopefully, sooner or 

17           later -- and I just want to thank our 

18           chairman of Transportation for always doing a 

19           great job, and I appreciate you, 

20           Senator Kennedy, for always being there for 

21           us.  But we have this drop shipping situation 

22           right now that is running rampant, and our 

23           roads are being worn out.  And our CHIPS 

24           funds are so, so important, that they depend 


                                                                   272

 1           on this.  And nothing is happening with this.

 2                  So I'm hopeful that we are going to 

 3           definitely look into this more with this.  So 

 4           please, we have to please make sure that our 

 5           CHIPS funds are definitely not going to be 

 6           decreased.

 7                  Are you going to do that?  Okay.  All 

 8           right. 

 9                  But I appreciate -- again, I 

10           appreciate your time.  But please, those 

11           sound walls, very, very important.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

13           Senator.

14                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Thank you.

15                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'll 

16           follow up with you, Senator.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

18                  Next we have Member Fall, please.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  Hello, 

20           Commissioner.

21                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Hello, 

22           Assemblymember.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  Good to see you.

24                  Have a question related to the HOV 


                                                                   273

 1           lane on the Staten Island Expressway.  

 2                  So as you know, the HOV lane goes from 

 3           Bradley avenue all the way to the 

 4           Verrazano Bridge, and it's from the 

 5           Verrazano Bridge to Bradley Avenue.  And it's 

 6           pretty much incomplete, because it doesn't go 

 7           all the way to the Goethals Bridge.  Because 

 8           of that, there's a ton of congestion.  And 

 9           we're trying to see how we can get the 

10           extension for the HOV lane in the next 

11           capital budget plan.

12                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'm 

13           sorry, can you repeat the last --

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  The extension for 

15           the -- funding for the extension for the HOV 

16           lane for the Staten Island Expressway.

17                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So I 

18           recognize that it's an issue that the 

19           delegation has been looking at for quite some 

20           time.  And our regional office has certainly 

21           taken a look at it, and I'm happy to follow 

22           up with you directly on it.  It is not 

23           currently part of our five-year capital plan.  

24                  As you know, we've done a lot of 


                                                                   274

 1           improvements on the HOV lane.  We just 

 2           completed one I think about a year and a half 

 3           ago on the expressway.  But it's a huge 

 4           undertaking, to say the least, so --

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  Well, you know, 

 6           Staten Island is a transportation desert, so 

 7           these little improvements make a big 

 8           difference.  This is one of those things 

 9           where there is bipartisan support on the 

10           island.  So we're fully behind it, and 

11           hopefully we can get your support to get it 

12           in that next capital plan.

13                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Thank 

14           you.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN FALL:  Thank you, 

16           Commissioner.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator Persaud.

18                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Thank you.

19                  Commissioner, it's great seeing you.  

20           And thank you for having a conversation with 

21           myself and my staff.  And I just appreciate 

22           your staff working with us on some of the 

23           issues across my district.  And I look 

24           forward to you coming to the district for us 


                                                                   275

 1           to walk through to see some of the things 

 2           that we're talking about.

 3                  Over the past week we saw -- you know, 

 4           there's the push about electrifying buses.  

 5           And over the past week we saw some issues 

 6           with, you know, not having the capacity to 

 7           recharge buses.  Can you tell me how much of 

 8           the $80 million that you have allocated for 

 9           electrifying buses has been spent?

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We are 

11           working directly with NYSERDA on the 

12           electrification for school buses, and then 

13           we're giving those dollars that we have 

14           allocated directly to transit systems in the 

15           upstate areas.  Those have already been 

16           allocated over the course of this last year.

17                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  I know NYSERDA has 

18           awarded some grants to some organizations 

19           that -- for example, that are working with 

20           the bus -- the minibus industry.  Do you know 

21           how those grants were processed for the 

22           persons who were given the grants?

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'm not 

24           familiar with the details of that.  No, 


                                                                   276

 1           sorry.

 2                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Okay.  Thank you for 

 3           that.  

 4                  I know Senator Comrie asked some 

 5           questions on the MWBE, but I wasn't sure that 

 6           I heard the answer correctly.  What's the 

 7           percentage of MWBE contracts that you have 

 8           allocated?

 9                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We're 

10           averaging about 18 percent a year.  It's gone 

11           up.  It was up a little bit higher and then 

12           during COVID and -- and now we're averaging 

13           about 18 percent over the last three years.

14                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Of those contracts, 

15           how many are the M's in the MWBEs?

16                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I don't 

17           have the breakout.  That's a holistic number.

18                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Is it possible for 

19           us to get that?

20                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Yes.  I 

21           can -- I --

22                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Why I'm asking that 

23           is because I was at an event, we were at this 

24           conference, and everyone's talking about, you 


                                                                   277

 1           know, the amount of contracts we're giving to 

 2           MWBEs.  And when you're really seeing, it's 

 3           not -- the M's are not being given those 

 4           contracts.  I just want to see in the state 

 5           how are you doing with that.

 6                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'd be 

 7           happy to provide you with a breakout.

 8                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Thank you for that.

 9                  One other thing I needed to ask about.  

10           As we're shifting to zero-emission buses -- 

11           again, back to buses -- there's the 

12           indication -- it's indicating a number of 

13           challenges, and I said that earlier.  How 

14           much are you involved, or your agency 

15           involved, in providing technical assistance 

16           to --

17                  (Overtalk.)

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

19                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  You can send that to 

20           us.

21                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Okay.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  You'll have to 

23           follow up.

24                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Thank you.


                                                                   278

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  Member 

 2           Darling.

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING:  Hi, 

 4           Commissioner, how are you?  Hello.  I just 

 5           want to thank you again.  It's been a 

 6           pleasure working with you to repair and 

 7           replace roads all throughout Long Island on 

 8           the Southern State, the Meadowbrook State 

 9           parkway, the LIE and I'm sure a bunch of 

10           other areas.  You guys have done an 

11           incredible job.  Our constituents are much 

12           happier, and a lot less potholes.  So really 

13           great to partner with you and your team.

14                  In the proposed Executive Budget will 

15           there be resources for a marketing campaign 

16           that targets communities experiencing high 

17           levels of unemployment in order to fill DOT 

18           employment vacancies?

19                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, we 

20           would love to partner with you and others.  

21           We have a great opportunity in terms of 

22           hiring at DOT.  So we don't have a dedicated 

23           line item per se, if that's what you're 

24           asking, but the department -- we are 


                                                                   279

 1           undertaking a very large-scale recruiting 

 2           effort for all job categories -- highway 

 3           maintenance workers, engineers, 

 4           transportation analysts, a whole variety of 

 5           skills.

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING:  Wonderful.  

 7                  All right, that was my question.  

 8           Thank you.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  We have Senator 

10           Brad Hoylman-Sigal.  Oh, he left.

11                  Then we have Senator Jeremy Cooney.

12                  SENATOR COONEY:  Batting up second 

13           here.  Thank you, Chair. 

14                  And good to see you again, 

15           Commissioner.  Appreciate your leadership, 

16           your team here in Albany and of course in 

17           Region 4 with Chris Reeve.

18                  I want to particularly highlight and 

19           thank you for your work on the State Touring 

20           Routes.  Under the leadership of Chairman Tim 

21           Kennedy, we've done a lot of great things 

22           across the state, and I want to thank you for 

23           that innovation for our cities. 

24                  I want to build off Chairman Kennedy's 


                                                                   280

 1           question regarding STOA and specifically 

 2           dedicated revenue for upstate transit.  As 

 3           you're familiar, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse 

 4           and Albany all are experiencing low ridership 

 5           rates in our public transit systems -- not 

 6           because they don't provide great service, but 

 7           rather because of the frequency of the routes 

 8           and making sure that they can be reliable 

 9           forms of transit for our constituents.

10                  And my question is, in your time 

11           whether in Washington or talking to your 

12           colleagues across the country, are there 

13           models of dedicated revenue that are working 

14           that we can model here in New York State, 

15           that we can try in this budget session?  Or 

16           are there other forms of revenue that we can 

17           look at?

18                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  It's a 

19           great question, and I think we should 

20           definitely have that discussion.  As I put it 

21           out earlier, there have been some dedicated 

22           forms that have been put in place, certainly 

23           that are benefiting MTA operating systems 

24           across the board in communities and -- in 


                                                                   281

 1           downstate communities.  

 2                  We've seen some success with the 

 3           rental car companies and some other creative 

 4           means of collecting those revenues.  But 

 5           happy to work with you and members of the 

 6           Transportation committees -- certainly 

 7           Senator Kennedy's been a big proponent of 

 8           this.  

 9                  But it's difficult.  It's difficult to 

10           look at, too, because you have to -- you have 

11           to look at things differently.  And we have 

12           had some success, and we can build off of 

13           that.  But I want to commend the Governor, 

14           because she has been incredibly consistent 

15           about supporting STOA, about statewide 

16           operating assistance, in particular for our 

17           upstate transit systems.

18                  (Overtalk.)

19                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  

20           Recognizing that we don't have that same 

21           level of dedicated sources, you know, she put 

22           it across the board another 5.4 percent 

23           increase.

24                  SENATOR COONEY:  We do appreciate 


                                                                   282

 1           that, Commissioner.  And we have to know that 

 2           the opportunity to grow our public transit 

 3           system does require additional resources.  I 

 4           agree with Chair Senator Kennedy in terms of 

 5           that 15 percent or more number.  

 6                  And I look forward to having continued 

 7           conversations with your staff, whether it's 

 8           to increase the STOA generally even more 

 9           beyond the Executive Budget, or whether it is 

10           that dedicated revenue source that will allow 

11           us to think creatively about long-term 

12           solutions for public transit in New York 

13           State.  We're absolutely committed to working 

14           with you to get that done.

15                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Thank 

16           you.

17                  SENATOR COONEY:  Thank you very much.

18                  I yield back my time.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

20                  Assembly.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

22           Senator.

23                  Mr. Simone, please.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN SIMONE:  Thank you, Chair.


                                                                   283

 1                  Thank you, Commissioner.  I want to 

 2           first thank you for doing a study of 

 3           Route 9A.  As you know, in my district along 

 4           Route 9A and the Hudson River we have 

 5           significant population growth; a section that 

 6           will soon be in the congestion pricing zone, 

 7           including 80 intersection; one of the busiest 

 8           parks in the nation, the Hudson River 

 9           Greenway, one of the nation's busiest bike 

10           corridors.  And I know this because I often 

11           use my bike down the Hudson River Park 

12           Greenway, I walk my dog, and it's a mess.  I 

13           would love to see an extra lane along the 

14           highway closed for increased use by 

15           pedestrians.

16                  My question is, how will DOT be 

17           studying the change in vehicular traffic 

18           patterns after congestion pricing takes 

19           effect, and how this route can be better 

20           served with thousands of daily bikers and 

21           pedestrians along the West Side Highway of 

22           Manhattan?

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So with 

24           regard to 9A, there's a lot of work that, as 


                                                                   284

 1           you know, we've done consistently.  We don't 

 2           have anything planned right now but, you 

 3           know, the bottom line is is that we have to 

 4           look to see what the impacts of congestion 

 5           pricing will be and go from there. 

 6                  I think that right now the -- there 

 7           have been proposals, as you've suggested, to 

 8           take another lane of traffic.  But given the 

 9           VMT that we have right now, the vehicles that 

10           are on the roadway right now, it doesn't 

11           seem -- from a congestion standpoint it 

12           doesn't seem to make -- you know, we need to 

13           look at some other alternatives.  And one of 

14           them is actually putting people on transit.  

15           Which is why I think congestion pricing will 

16           hopefully get us there in many ways.

17                  So happy to work with you in the 

18           future on what that might look like.  But for 

19           right now, you know, it's going to take some 

20           time to actually see how this all plays out.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  That's it?  

22           Thank you.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

24                  Senator Tom O'Mara, five minutes, 


                                                                   285

 1           ranker.

 2                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you.

 3                  Good afternoon, Commissioner.  Thank 

 4           you for your time with us today.  

 5                  I just want to reiterate the concerns 

 6           I have over the cuts to the CHIPS funding.  

 7           It's vital, particularly for upstate and 

 8           particularly for our rural towns who many of 

 9           them their entire road budget for the year is 

10           CHIPS, and that's all they have.  So it's 

11           incredibly important.  And a cut to them is a 

12           hit that those communities really can't 

13           sustain with the important work just to keep 

14           up with the needs of the local roads.

15                  I understand, you know, we've got 

16           tough budget issues.  And fiscal austerity is 

17           important, and I'm certainly a champion of 

18           that in many ways.  But there's many areas of 

19           this budget that are far less important than 

20           our infrastructure and our roadways that 

21           should be the priority.  

22                  So just please take that back to the 

23           Executive.  And in negotiations we certainly 

24           hope to be able to achieve at least level 


                                                                   286

 1           funding from last year with that.  So it's 

 2           critically important.

 3                  One specific question from 

 4           Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick on Long Island 

 5           looking for a status update, Loop Parkway 

 6           Drawbridge.  There's supposedly a feasibility 

 7           study that's out there.  What's the status of 

 8           that, and what's the expectation there?

 9                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We're 

10           working on the study right now.  I think 

11           we'll be bringing it to conclusion pretty 

12           shortly and we'll be in touch.  But we've 

13           been working on it to take a look at what 

14           some of the alternatives could be.

15                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Okay, thank you.

16                  And I just want to also say thank you 

17           for the great work the department has done 

18           throughout my district, really, but in 

19           particular on State Route 54A, which runs 

20           along the west side of Keuka Lake, which is a 

21           very challenging section of roadway due to 

22           the steepness of the hillsides and slopes 

23           there, and it's constant work needing to be 

24           done.  So it's been a very good relationship 


                                                                   287

 1           working on that, so thank you.

 2                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I greatly 

 3           appreciate that, sir.  I've been there, and 

 4           to say that it's challenging is indeed an 

 5           understatement.

 6                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thanks.

 7                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So thank 

 8           you.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

10                  Assembly.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

12           Slater.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  Thank you very 

14           much.

15                  Commissioner, great to see you.

16                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Good to 

17           see you.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  I just wanted to 

19           follow up on some of our discussions that 

20           we've had previously.  And by the way, I do 

21           want to thank you for your help with Route 52 

22           in the Town of Kent.  That was a great 

23           improvement that we've made.  I'm hoping we 

24           can build on that moving forward, as we've 


                                                                   288

 1           discussed.

 2                  And I also want to just applaud the 

 3           Region 8 staff.  As I said to you before, 

 4           they have been fantastic to work with, very 

 5           responsive to our needs, and so I do want to 

 6           tip my hat to them as well.

 7                  But we did talk about some of the 

 8           reports, specifically the Highway Pavement 

 9           and Bridge Conditions Report.  Now, it's my 

10           understanding that members of the majority 

11           received copies of that report, among others, 

12           but members of the minority, when we asked 

13           for it, were denied.  

14                  And so I'd like to know if we're going 

15           to be able to get copies of those reports, 

16           whether it's that, the Capital Program 

17           Letting and Implementation Report, the 

18           Capital Program Accomplishment Report, and 

19           the Downstate Suburban and Upstate Transit 

20           Capital Programs Report.  Is that going to be 

21           made available for our conference?

22                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Sir, I 

23           can tell you that we submit the reports per 

24           the legislative requirements.  So --


                                                                   289

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  There's nothing 

 2           prohibiting you from sharing -- it's my 

 3           understanding there's nothing that prohibits 

 4           you from sharing those reports with our 

 5           conference as well.

 6                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'll be 

 7           happy to talk, but the bottom line is we do 

 8           it by statute.  So ...

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  Understood.  

10           Understood.  Well, I hope we can our hands on 

11           those reports as well.

12                  I also just wanted to quickly, on 

13           Region 8, with my remaining time, there's an 

14           MOU project list that had to drop two 

15           scheduled projects, and you still spent more 

16           than was programmed.  Obviously with 

17           inflation driving up the construction costs 

18           that will reduce the number of projects being 

19           delivered.  But fewer projects means 

20           continued declines in the conditions.

21                  So my question is, how much additional 

22           funding does Region 8 need over the remaining 

23           three years in the current capital program to 

24           deliver all the projects that are already 


                                                                   290

 1           listed in the program?

 2                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  What we 

 3           do with the capital program is actually for 

 4           every region is make sure that whatever's 

 5           been planned and programmed, we work with 

 6           every region across the state, as the DOT, to 

 7           make sure that we're -- if one project slips, 

 8           so to speak, into an outyear, that we're 

 9           pulling something else in to make sure that 

10           it's balanced over the five years.

11                  So that's the goal, making sure that 

12           we're meeting the stated MOU requirements for 

13           both projects and dollars spent within the 

14           areas that the Legislature and the Executive 

15           agreed to.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  So no additional 

17           funding needed to accomplish the five-year 

18           plan for Region 8.

19                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We have 

20           the funding based on the five-year plan that 

21           was passed by the Legislature and signed by 

22           the Governor.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  Understood.  

24           Thank you very much.  I really appreciate it.  


                                                                   291

 1                  With my remaining time, I do want to 

 2           wish my colleague Tony Simone a happy 

 3           birthday.  Hey, Tony.

 4                  (Cheers; applause.)

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER:  Commissioner, 

 6           thanks again for being here today.  Really 

 7           appreciate it.

 8                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Thank 

 9           you.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

11                  Senate.

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator Ramos.

13                  SENATOR RAMOS:  (Mic off.)  Thank you.

14                  Well, good afternoon.  

15                  (Off the record.)

16                  SENATOR RAMOS:  Well, I'm loud enough. 

17                  (Laughter.)

18                  SENATOR RAMOS:  Good afternoon.  I 

19           wanted to pick up our conversation on e-bike 

20           safety.  As you know, there's great concern 

21           about folks driving their e-bikes down the -- 

22           you know, going the wrong way down streets, 

23           riding on sidewalks and that sort of thing.  

24           I know that in working with the Traffic 


                                                                   292

 1           Safety Committee you've put together a 

 2           brand-new PSA; it depicts a father purchasing 

 3           an e-bike for his son.  It largely focuses 

 4           around helmet safety, not so much on speed 

 5           limits or sidewalk riding.  

 6                  And so I'm wondering, what's the plan 

 7           to actually work with the target demographic, 

 8           right:  Delivery workers, the folks who are 

 9           using e-bikes the most.  I'm less concerned 

10           about kids and e-bikes, more so about, you 

11           know, those who are using it as a tool for 

12           work.

13                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So as you 

14           noted, Senator, we're working with the 

15           Governor's Traffic Safety Committee.  And I 

16           can tell you that in initial discussions with 

17           them, one -- you know, it's a collaboration 

18           of state agencies, so DMV, State Police, DOT, 

19           et cetera, all coming together to try and 

20           enhance education around e-bike safety.

21                  One of the initial areas was literally 

22           working with the delivery companies, Grubhub, 

23           et cetera, to make sure that information is 

24           getting shared.  So I think there's 


                                                                   293

 1           additional opportunity.  This is the initial 

 2           launch.  But would love to work with you on 

 3           how to actually advance it.

 4                  SENATOR RAMOS:  Yeah, I would love -- 

 5           I mean, if you need help brokering a meeting 

 6           with these work groups, I'm -- you know --

 7                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I think 

 8           the --

 9                  SENATOR RAMOS:  -- I'm happy to --

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I think 

11           that's the actual challenge, is actually not 

12           just getting to the companies, but the people 

13           that are actually using --

14                  SENATOR RAMOS:  But we can do a 

15           meeting, right?  They're actually pretty 

16           organized.  We can help disseminate 

17           information, create a brochure in Spanish, in 

18           their languages.  I just -- I would love to 

19           see a lot -- I would love to see the DOT be 

20           much more proactive on this matter.

21                  But to switch gears very quickly, 

22           actually Assemblyman Cunningham right here to 

23           my right, and myself, we've introduced a bill 

24           in order to establish scramble crosswalks 


                                                                   294

 1           outside of schools during arrival and 

 2           dismissal.  

 3                  I know that unfortunately the 

 4           Assemblyman was hit by a car outside of his 

 5           school when he was young, and along 

 6           Northern Boulevard in my district, we've lost 

 7           at least 12 children over the last few years, 

 8           and yet no agency at the city or state level 

 9           seems to be exploring traffic treatments or 

10           ways to make it easier for these children to 

11           cross the street.  Northern Boulevard, of 

12           course, being technically a state highway 

13           even though it's a street.

14                  So I'm wondering if -- is there any 

15           plans there to --

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

17           Senator.

18                  SENATOR RAMOS:  -- support that?

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Sorry, you're 

20           going to have to --

21                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I'll 

22           follow up with you directly.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

24           Cunningham.


                                                                   295

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  I'll pick up 

 2           where she left off.

 3                  (Laughter.)

 4                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  That was 

 5           a good tag-in.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  I'll use the 

 7           first part of my moments to just kind of 

 8           restate the question, but wanted to get an 

 9           answer on that question on the record.

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So the 

11           bottom line is I think the majority of the 

12           legislation that you all have introduced 

13           looks directly at some of the city roads and 

14           some of the school districts in there.  But 

15           we'll be happy to take a look at the 

16           legislation itself and see what the 

17           opportunities are at the state level as well.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  Thank you so 

19           much.  

20                  And I think, going back to Jessica -- 

21           the Senator's first question about e-bikes, I 

22           guess I'm also concerned with the number of 

23           e-bike fires that happen, particularly the 

24           one that happened in my district right after 


                                                                   296

 1           Christmas, right before New Year's.  

 2                  Given the increase of e-bike sales -- 

 3           I mean, e-bike fires, what policies do you 

 4           have in place to make sure we have an 

 5           accurate count of the amount of sales of 

 6           e-bikes in the state?

 7                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So that 

 8           would be a question for DMV.  

 9                  But I can tell you that the Executive 

10           did put forward some battery language in the 

11           budget looking at -- making sure that these 

12           fake batteries, for a better name, I'm -- 

13           anyway --

14                  SENATOR RAMOS:  -- lithium ion.

15                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Exactly.  

16           The secondary market here that has exploded, 

17           literally, figuratively, and is actually so 

18           that people are aware that they need to 

19           actually buy the battery as designated from 

20           the manufacturer, as opposed to the fraud 

21           that's taking place.  So the awareness 

22           campaign.

23                  And to Senator Ramos's other question 

24           with regard to what you were asking about 


                                                                   297

 1           e-bike safety, this campaign that we've 

 2           launched in the Governor's Traffic Safety 

 3           Committee is in multiple languages.  Happy to 

 4           do additional outreach in various communities 

 5           to make sure that we're actually reaching the 

 6           users as intended.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  Particularly 

 8           communities of color and immigrant 

 9           communities --

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  

11           Absolutely.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  -- I think 

13           that would be specifically important.  

14                  The last thing I'll say is last 

15           November, just this past year, I had my first 

16           child.  And as I walk the streets of Brooklyn 

17           and throughout the city in general, I'm 

18           concerned about just general street safety -- 

19           not just slowing down the streets or slowing 

20           down drivers, and the cameras, but also 

21           infrastructure.  

22                  What things can we put in place with 

23           some of the federal money and state money to 

24           ensure that our roads also are transformed in 


                                                                   298

 1           a way that creates safer streets for children 

 2           and families?

 3                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So 

 4           there's great opportunities across the board.  

 5           And I know the city's engaged in a 

 6           Vision Zero plan.  

 7                  For State DOT, we've got an Active 

 8           Transportation Plan that really looks at bike 

 9           and ped safety and Complete Streets 

10           initiatives that we've launched, and 

11           literally apply as a screening criteria to 

12           every project that we undertake.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  The last 

14           thing I'll say, in the last 10 seconds, is 

15           2022 was the deadliest year for children with 

16           vehicular traffic violations and people 

17           getting hit.  We have to work urgently and 

18           hard to make sure this doesn't continue as a 

19           trend.

20                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  And a 

21           large part of that is awareness and 

22           mental health.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  Thank you so 

24           much, Commissioner, for your time.


                                                                   299

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 2           Commissioner.  Thank you.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  And 

 4           we've been rejoined by Senator Brad 

 5           Hoylman-Sigal.

 6                  SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:  Thank you, 

 7           Senator Krueger, Chairwoman.  

 8                  On e-bikes, it's an issue we hear 

 9           about constantly from constituents.  I will 

10           say that I think the delivery app companies, 

11           with whom we have met along with 

12           Senator Krueger and others, including 

13           birthday boy Assemblymember Simone, are -- 

14           should be held responsible for the unfair and 

15           I would argue inhumane way that they treat 

16           their drivers in terms of the algorithms that 

17           force them to deliver within an allotted time 

18           period.

19                  I have legislation that would remedy 

20           that.  I'll be happy to share that with you.  

21                  But I wanted to speak about 

22           double-decker tour buses, another plague in 

23           my district, and probably Senator Krueger's.  

24           Last summer one of those buses, in this case 


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 1           a double-decker tour bus, crashed in 

 2           Manhattan and sent 32 people to the hospital.

 3                  What oversight does DOT exercise over 

 4           these double-decker tour buses?  And I would 

 5           venture that there might be gaps in your 

 6           ability to ensure that these buses and their 

 7           drivers are operating safely on our streets.  

 8                  For example, the drivers are not held 

 9           to the same type of training standards as 

10           regular bus drivers on city streets.  Are you 

11           aware of that?

12                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We have a 

13           very rigorous bus inspection program.  And I 

14           need to get back and actually look to see 

15           what the issue is with regard to 

16           double-decker buses.  Because anything 

17           operating in -- in commerce, basically, in 

18           intrastate, should have oversight.  The 

19           question is, is this interstate providers --

20                  SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:  These are tour 

21           buses that only tour within the five 

22           boroughs.

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  New York 

24           City.


                                                                   301

 1                  SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:  Yeah.  And in 

 2           this case, probably just Manhattan.  Okay, 

 3           I'd love to follow up on that. 

 4                  And then secondly, Route 9A, otherwise 

 5           known as the West Side Highway in my 

 6           Senate district, has been a clear and present 

 7           danger for cyclists and pedestrians for many 

 8           years.  Do you have plans to redesign or 

 9           upgrade Route 9A to ensure that New Yorkers 

10           can feel safe to jog safely or bicycle along 

11           the Hudson River?

12                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I 

13           would -- you know, we've done an enormous 

14           amount of work on 9A to not only make sure 

15           that we accommodate bikes and ped traffic but 

16           literally as we've rehabilitated portions of 

17           9A over the years, we've enhanced that even 

18           further.

19                  And so the opportunity is always there 

20           for additional safety work.  But, you know, I 

21           will tell you we have done an enormous amount 

22           over the course of the last --

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  We're 

24           going to cut you off.


                                                                   302

 1                  SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL:  Thank you.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  We go back to the 

 3           Assembly.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Mr. -- Member 

 5           Lemondes, please, ranker, five minutes.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES:  Thank you, 

 7           Chair Magnarelli. 

 8                  Thank you, Commissioner, for spending 

 9           so much time with us today.  Really 

10           appreciate it.  

11                  I also wanted to thank you for your 

12           commitment to flooding mitigation upstate.  

13           We have no shortage of it; our topography 

14           lends itself to it.  The deterioration in 

15           many of our roads and culverts also adds to 

16           that.  And I would hope that you would 

17           continue helping us improve that.  I have, in 

18           the 126th Assembly District, several direct 

19           needs for flooding mitigation in that area. 

20                  I'd like to secondly go to the I-81 

21           project in Syracuse.  With respect to the 

22           farmer's market, the CNY Regional Market 

23           there serves seven counties.  If this project 

24           interferes with ingress or egress for that 


                                                                   303

 1           market, it will disrupt the commerce, the 

 2           agricultural commerce, our state's number-one 

 3           industry, my Assembly district's number-one 

 4           industry.  It will severely -- could severely 

 5           impact that.

 6                  Are you aware of anything that that 

 7           project will disrupt with respect to the 

 8           commerce for the CNY Regional Market?

 9                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I 

10           personally am not aware of the -- if you're 

11           concerned about the logistics and the staging 

12           of the construction with regard to I-81, 

13           we'll be happy to work with -- we're working 

14           with everybody.  I mean, it's a very 

15           complicated project, many construction sites 

16           in and around the city, and we're working 

17           with all the critical stakeholders as we move 

18           forward, because we have to.  

19                  I mean, one, we don't want to 

20           interrupt, we want to be as -- we want to be 

21           as least intrusive as we possibly can.  But 

22           then again, it's major construction.  So 

23           we'll be working with the critical 

24           stakeholders.


                                                                   304

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES:  Thank you.  

 2                  And similar to Chair Magnarelli, I 

 3           have several direct DOT property transfer 

 4           issues which I'd like to follow up with you 

 5           on after.

 6                  Going to your testimony with respect 

 7           to smart climate policies and EV weight, and 

 8           with respect to the materials being used for 

 9           the 75-year lifespan on our roads, is that 

10           taking into account the additional weight of 

11           these vehicles?

12                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  It is.  I 

13           can tell you that our specifications look at 

14           the weight of various vehicles.  We have an 

15           80,000 pound weight limit that we design for, 

16           and so far we're not seeing anything above 

17           that.

18                  I think the larger question is is with 

19           the adoption, potentially in the future, of 

20           medium and heavy-duty vehicles.  We are 

21           looking at our specifications right now on 

22           what the impact would be.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES:  Thank you.

24                  And with respect to the Governor's 


                                                                   305

 1           commitment to these green policy changes, I'd 

 2           like to go to EV batteries specifically.  And 

 3           as we know, EV batteries are dependent on the 

 4           mining of rare-earth materials.  For a 

 5           thousand-pound battery it takes approximately 

 6           500,000 -- half a million -- pounds of earth 

 7           to be moved to extract the rare earths for 

 8           one battery.  

 9                  Further, our commitment to mining rare 

10           earths is directly linked to the 

11           proliferation of EV batteries.  I'm wondering 

12           if -- the data that we have is there's 

13           approximately 10,000 deaths of children in 

14           the countries where these rare earths are 

15           mined -- most of them in Africa, if not all; 

16           most of them Black children -- 40,000 

17           injuries, and innumerable and unknown amounts 

18           of birth defects that will occur from now 

19           into the foreseeable future as a result of 

20           the poisoning these children are experiencing 

21           as they mine.

22                  We know that no children in New York 

23           or the United States would be allowed to work 

24           in those conditions.  Yet we get behind an 


                                                                   306

 1           effort so we can have electric vehicles that 

 2           is directly linked to the death, poisoning 

 3           and injury of children on another continent.

 4                  Do you share any obligation in this at 

 5           all?

 6                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  With 

 7           regard to the manufacture of electric 

 8           batteries and what you've pointed out, there 

 9           are global climate concerns writ large.  The 

10           climate objectives are to reduce carbon 

11           emissions.  And as we look at how we do that, 

12           we have to look at everything.  And that 

13           includes the electrification of our vehicle 

14           systems, both passenger, medium and 

15           heavy-duty vehicles.

16                  The technology is advancing very 

17           quickly in the private sector on how those 

18           batteries are made and how these vehicles 

19           come to market, so --

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES:  Thank you.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

22                  Commissioner, I think I'm the last one 

23           left on the Senate side.  I have 10, but I 

24           won't use 10, so I don't care if my clock 


                                                                   307

 1           says five.

 2                  First, as a follow-up to 

 3           Senator Hoylman-Sigal's question about the 

 4           double-decker buses -- which his district and 

 5           my district are identical from this 

 6           perspective -- my understanding was that 

 7           these buses, even though they just only stay 

 8           in Manhattan, maybe sometimes in Brooklyn, 

 9           they are registering out of state and they 

10           garage out of state, and that somehow 

11           supposedly limits the state's ability to go 

12           after them for the same standards we apply.

13                  Does that ring a bell at all to you?

14                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Senator, 

15           I would prefer to come back and make sure 

16           that I have the proper framework, because I 

17           want to make sure that I understand where 

18           these bus companies are registered, how 

19           they're operating, and provide specifics on 

20           the existing oversight that we have with 

21           regard to these companies that you're 

22           raising.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  So I look forward 

24           to the same concerns as Senator Hoylman.


                                                                   308

 1                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I 

 2           appreciate that.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Hoylman-Sigal, 

 4           excuse me.  

 5                  Are we at the point now where we're 

 6           making sure that none of the chemicals or 

 7           products used that's spread on roads and 

 8           highways for snow and ice are not dangerous 

 9           contaminants for the water table?

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We just 

11           undertook a very extensive look with a number 

12           of partners.  The Legislature passed the 

13           Adirondack Salt Task Force legislation.  Last 

14           year we constituted that task force.  It 

15           produced a report.  It was very much a 

16           collaborative effort with the members of the 

17           task force, which included environmental 

18           organizations.  The DEC and DOT were 

19           cochairs.  

20                  A number of recommendations came out 

21           of that.  They have launched -- the pilot 

22           programs in particular that DOT is 

23           undertaking right now launched this winter.  

24           So we're looking at -- the recommendations of 


                                                                   309

 1           the task force included things like -- 

 2           there's a pilot that we're doing right now in 

 3           Central New York in the Utica area, just 

 4           north of there, using all salt brine.  How do 

 5           we look at that?  

 6                  How do we look at cold spots, meaning 

 7           areas that frequently ice?  But if we don't 

 8           put salt down there for a period of time in 

 9           this pilot, do we actually need to look at 

10           some natural, you know, basically making sure 

11           that we're landscaping properly and creating 

12           less shady areas and less ice.

13                  We're also looking at -- we put what 

14           we call EVLs, which are basically cameras on 

15           our plows so that we're monitoring the salt 

16           usage, salt spread, and understanding exactly 

17           what the conditions are and how we're 

18           treating for them.

19                  So the bottom line is is all these 

20           pilots have launched.  We're collecting -- 

21           we'll collect the data and analyze it and 

22           report back out for the legislative 

23           requirement.  But I do think we've got a good 

24           way forward on how we're actually managing 


                                                                   310

 1           for salt, salt usage, and then, you know, 

 2           reporting back out to see what's going to 

 3           actually work and where we can -- if we need 

 4           to make additional improvements, where that 

 5           would be.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And do you have a 

 7           system in place for where this information, 

 8           when you learn it and you get the pilots' 

 9           findings, that that information is reported 

10           in some way so the public can track how we're 

11           doing on improving our climate goals from a, 

12           you know, public roadways perspective?

13                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We're 

14           collecting it right now.  So we have not even 

15           begun the analytics of that yet.  So we're 

16           going to continue to work with the task 

17           force, because that's the framework that 

18           we've got to actually do that.

19                  We'll figure out how to -- it's all 

20           public in the end, so.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

22                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  And 

23           anybody who wants to actually track a plow, 

24           we've got a -- you can go on our website and 


                                                                   311

 1           actually look at it.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  I 

 3           think the Senate -- oh, we may have a 

 4           three-minute follow-up.

 5                  But Assembly next.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  Member 

 7           Palmesano.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Thank you, 

 9           Commissioner, for being here.  It's always 

10           good to see you.  

11                  I first want to just give a shout out 

12           to your regional teams.  They do a great job 

13           for our regions, so I wanted to say that 

14           first of all.

15                  Earlier today we heard from 

16           Commissioner Janno Lieber talking about his 

17           wishlist and specific needs like replacing 

18           20 percent of subway stations, 32 percent of 

19           Metro-North bridges, and so on -- 

20           megaprojects like the Second Avenue Subway.  

21           We know the MTA budget for both capital and 

22           operating is increasing.  And I know you 

23           talked about the historic $32 billion DOT 

24           five-year capital plan, which pales in 


                                                                   312

 1           comparison to the five-year, $51 billion MTA 

 2           capital plan.  There's no parity between the 

 3           two.  There used to be; there is no longer.

 4                  But yet even given the fact -- I know 

 5           25 percent was mentioned as far as the 

 6           inflation rate.  According to the FHA, the 

 7           Federal Highway Administration, for the past 

 8           30 months the inflation rate for highway 

 9           construction is up a record 58 percent, but 

10           yet this Governor has chosen to cut 

11           10 percent, or $60 million, from the 

12           critically important CHIPS program, which 

13           provides money directly to these local 

14           communities.  

15                  As my colleagues mentioned, some of 

16           these communities, upstate rural communities, 

17           that's all they receive to fix their local 

18           roads and bridges in communities.  And this 

19           is going to hurt the local communities, it's 

20           going to hurt the local property taxpayer in 

21           their ability to fix these roads.

22                  This cut is absolutely unacceptable.  

23           Hopefully you'll take that back to the 

24           Governor.  But also to my colleagues here, we 


                                                                   313

 1           cannot let this cut stand.  It shouldn't just 

 2           be restored, there should be an increase to 

 3           the CHIPS base aid.  And no governor has ever 

 4           cut the CHIPS base aid as long as I've been a 

 5           member or a staff member 15 years previously.  

 6           The CHIPS base aid has never been cut until 

 7           this Governor chose to do it.  The worst 

 8           they've done, pull out Winter Recovery and 

 9           mess with that, but never CHIPS base aid.  

10                  So that was just one thing I wanted to 

11           mention.  But I wanted to ask my question on 

12           the EV issue.  My colleague mentioned --

13                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Can I 

14           respond really quickly?

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  No, it was 

16           more of a comment, because you understand I 

17           got three minutes.  So we can talk about 

18           this, but I just wanted to mention that, 

19           because you and my colleagues, we need to 

20           restore this money.  It's wrong.

21                  So I want to talk about EVs.  So my 

22           colleague talked about the child labor issue 

23           with the Democratic Republic of Congo, I've 

24           talked about that time and again.  One thing 


                                                                   314

 1           for sure is cobalt is used to produce lithium 

 2           ion batteries that are used to produce these 

 3           batteries to power these electric vehicles.  

 4                  And certainly we should all agree that 

 5           child labor -- we shouldn't meet our climate 

 6           goals on the backs of child labor in the 

 7           Democratic Republic of Congo.  It's proven, 

 8           it's fact, they're dying, they're being 

 9           maimed.  So we should address that.  And we 

10           shouldn't be supporting and buying these 

11           vehicles until they can demonstrate that 

12           child labor is not being used.

13                  Wouldn't you agree, we should not be 

14           using child labor to produce these electric 

15           vehicles to meet our -- because you talk 

16           about the goal is to get carbon -- reduce 

17           carbon.  But we shouldn't be doing it on the 

18           backs of child labor in the Democratic 

19           Republic of Congo, where 70 percent of the 

20           cobalt is extracted to produce these 

21           electric -- these batteries to power these 

22           electric vehicles.

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So let 

24           me -- first, with regard to the CHIPS 


                                                                   315

 1           funding, I just want to make a clarification.  

 2           Governor Hochul put forward $6.1 billion --

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Commissioner.  

 4           Commissioner, you're going to have to get 

 5           back to him directly.  Okay?

 6                  Senate.  

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Tim Kennedy for 

 8           three month -- three months?  No, you can't 

 9           go --

10                  (Laughter; overtalk.) 

11                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I don't 

12           think the clock goes that high.

13                  (Laughter.)

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Three minutes.

15                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Commissioner, I have 

16           three months.

17                  (Laughter.)

18                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Wonderful.  Thank 

19           you for that generosity, Chairwoman.  

20                  Commissioner, thank you very much 

21           again.

22                  A couple of things.  So I just want to 

23           go back to my questions earlier, talking 

24           NFTA.  Look, they're in the last year of a 


                                                                   316

 1           five-year capital plan; $100 million was the 

 2           first money in in 35 years.  That money was 

 3           basically spent before they got it.  The 

 4           system was failing, it was crumbling.  

 5           They've done some good things.  They need the 

 6           next phase of that.  

 7                  We're talking about a $50-plus billion 

 8           capital plan for the MTA, with congestion 

 9           pricing and everything else.  The need for 

10           $150 million for the NFTA, I just want to 

11           make a note of that, is essential for the 

12           next five years.

13                  STOA, you've heard a number of us talk 

14           about the need for improved STOA.  These are 

15           all issues we can get into.  But when it 

16           comes to the NFTA, there's the metro rail 

17           expansion that you're very familiar with.  

18           Can you talk about the DOT and your 

19           conversations, your support or lack thereof 

20           of this vision moving forward for the light 

21           rail expansion into Amherst from downtown 

22           Buffalo?

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So the 

24           NFTA has put forward what their proposal is 


                                                                   317

 1           and what they would like to do.  Again, it 

 2           hinges on funding to actually make that 

 3           happen.  Beyond that, DOT -- that's how we've 

 4           looked at it in terms of actually 

 5           understanding what their proposal is and 

 6           understanding what the funding opportunities 

 7           would be to actually carry that out.  

 8                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Yes.  So one thing 

 9           we're going to be looking for is a commitment 

10           of funding moving forward so that we can go 

11           after funding at the federal level.  That's 

12           what's necessary from the state level.  So 

13           we'll work with you on that.  I would 

14           appreciate that greatly.  And that would be a 

15           major, major impact economically on the 

16           community for the future.

17                  And the last thing, because we have 

18           one minute left, I want to talk about 

19           limousine safety and the bill that was 

20           proposed.  If you could please just outline 

21           that briefly, talk about the suggestions made 

22           by the task force, if they were fully 

23           included in what has been proposed, and -- 

24           the task force, please.  Thank you.  


                                                                   318

 1                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So I 

 2           greatly appreciate, you know, the work that 

 3           has been done across the board on limousine 

 4           safety.  Seven bills have been passed, and 

 5           the agencies that are responsible -- DOT, 

 6           DMV, et cetera, have all taken them extremely 

 7           seriously and implemented them.  We also 

 8           executed the Limousine Task Force.  

 9                  Governor Hochul put forward a 

10           comprehensive bill that takes the work of the 

11           Senate bill that was passed last year on 

12           limousine safety, and the Assembly work, and 

13           takes the recommendations from the task force 

14           and creates a more comprehensive safety bill.

15                  We'd love to see -- work with you all 

16           on --

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

18           Commissioner.

19                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  -- 

20           passing that this year.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

23                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 


                                                                   319

 1           Giglio, please.  Is she here?

 2                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  She is.

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Hello.

 4                  So first I want to thank you very much 

 5           for taking the time to meet with me before 

 6           this hearing today to discuss any concerns 

 7           that I may have had.  I thought that was very 

 8           considerate of you, so I wanted to thank you 

 9           for that.

10                  And then I wanted to talk to you about 

11           new markets for recyclables that DOT may be 

12           considering, because we have a lot of 

13           problems with recycling, with redemption 

14           centers, with bottle bills and things of that 

15           nature.  And I know that Easthampton, on 

16           Long Island, was pulverizing the glass and 

17           using it for roadbed or the road 

18           right-of-ways so that -- not necessarily on 

19           the road itself.

20                  So I just wanted to touch base and see 

21           if you have any plans for new markets, 

22           recyclables that DOT could consider for other 

23           uses that we could work together on, number 

24           one.


                                                                   320

 1                  And then number two, I know that 

 2           there's a great need for mechanics with the 

 3           DOT, and I'm wondering if you have considered 

 4           working with union companies on Long Island 

 5           and throughout the state for apprenticeship 

 6           programs on those facilities so that they 

 7           could train the younger generation, perhaps a 

 8           BOCES certificate-holder, in order to get 

 9           into heavy-equipment mechanics.

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So with 

11           regard to recyclables, yes, we definitely use 

12           them.  And we're excited about using them in 

13           various projects.  

14                  I can tell you we just completed a 

15           project out in Utica and applied it -- 

16           recycled glass.  And we do it, it's part of 

17           our specification process.  And it's one more 

18           way that we're looking at to reduce carbon 

19           across the board.  So can talk to you more 

20           about that, but it is definitely incorporated 

21           into our specs.  And again, on our climate 

22           goals.

23                  With regard to the mechanics, 

24           absolutely.  We're doing everything we 


                                                                   321

 1           possibly can to recruit and bring folks in.  

 2           We've got a great -- excuse me -- program 

 3           that we have with SUNY Cobleskill to teach 

 4           mechanics and bring them in.  It's a great 

 5           partnership that we'd like to further 

 6           leverage.  Excuse me (coughing).

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Yes, can you 

 8           hold my clock?

 9                  Please, take your time.

10                  (Off the record.)

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Please, don't 

12           worry about it.  Okay, Commissioner?  

13                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Thanks.  

14           Let me just grab a cough drop.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Take it easy.

16                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  You got 

17           me all worked up about --

18                  (Cross-talk.)

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  I'm sorry, I -- 

20                  (Laughter.)

21                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Okay, 

22           thank you.

23                  So the bottom line is that DOT 

24           operations doesn't work if our equipment 


                                                                   322

 1           doesn't work, so we're highly invested in our 

 2           mechanics and our fleet operations.  So 

 3           recruiting and bringing folks in is 

 4           fundamental to our work.  And if you've got 

 5           some ideas on how we can continue to do that 

 6           on Long Island, we'd be happy to work with 

 7           you on that.

 8                  But we've got a great model with SUNY 

 9           that we're leveraging.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Okay, great.  

11           And I would also really like to thank you for 

12           your oversight of the project labor 

13           agreements on the Long Island Expressway and 

14           all of our state roads on Long Island.  There 

15           has not been one that has slipped by.  So 

16           we're very happy with that and keeping a 

17           living wage going on Long Island where it's 

18           very much needed.  So thank you for that.

19                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Thank 

20           you.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

22                  Senator Comrie, three-minute chair 

23           follow-up.

24                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Hi, Commissioner.  


                                                                   323

 1                  I always ask you every year, where's 

 2           my Cross Island Parkway project upgrade?  And 

 3           have you been able to track the usage now 

 4           that UBS Arena is in service?

 5                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Sir, I 

 6           appreciate you asking every year, and every 

 7           year we go back with City DOT on that, so.

 8                  SENATOR COMRIE:  I hope that we 

 9           increase that access for that road.  That's a 

10           very major roadway for Long Island to access 

11           the city.  Some of the usage has gone up 

12           because of the arena, which is a good thing 

13           for commerce for the state.  But for traffic 

14           traveling, time of travel, it's just making 

15           it harder for people to get back and forth 

16           from Queens to Long Island.  I would hope 

17           that we can move that forward.

18                  What does DOT do as far as making sure 

19           that vehicles are properly insured?

20                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Sir, 

21           that's under the jurisdiction of DMV on the 

22           insurance.

23                  SENATOR COMRIE:  So when the State 

24           Troopers do -- when the state -- you don't 


                                                                   324

 1           oversee or monitor the numbers of arrests 

 2           from the State Troopers pulling people over?  

 3           They don't send that information to you?

 4                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  No, sir.

 5                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And no one has 

 6           reached out to you about the issues of 

 7           insuring fleet vehicles and commuter vehicles 

 8           at all?  You don't get any information about 

 9           those?

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, I 

11           think with regard to our own fleet, yes, we 

12           have to follow the state rules.  But beyond 

13           that, we don't have jurisdiction over -- 

14           oversight over others.  Other than -- the 

15           only thing I can think of as part of the 

16           inspection process for motor buses and --

17                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And just a final 

18           question.  Have they improved the lifetime of 

19           the pavement that they're putting down now so 

20           that they don't have to pave as often?

21                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We do.  

22           We use a lot of different materials to try 

23           and make sure that we're using proper mixes 

24           to extend the life, as well as preserve what 


                                                                   325

 1           we have right now.  So we abide by a 

 2           preservation-first policy.

 3                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And the pavement 

 4           that's been put down now is BHPA-free or free 

 5           of toxic chemicals that may have seepage into 

 6           the roadways or into the waterways?

 7                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, 

 8           it's a variety of chemicals and -- but I 

 9           would also say that it's a variety of -- 

10           we're looking at -- we've applied a number of 

11           techniques that are looking at how do we 

12           reduce carbon emissions asphalt application.  

13           So cold in-place recycling and some other 

14           things, high-performance concrete -- 

15           everything that we can do to reduce the 

16           carbon that we're using with regard to road 

17           rehabilitation.

18                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.  Thank 

19           you, Commissioner, for your service.  

20                  Thank you.

21                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Thank 

22           you.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Assembly.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 


                                                                   326

 1           Shimsky.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Thank you very 

 3           much, Commissioner.  And let me join the 

 4           chorus of praise for your willingness to 

 5           dialogue with us on the issues in our areas.  

 6           Your office has been great, and my DOT 

 7           region, Region 8, has been working very, very 

 8           hard -- but some really challenging issues.

 9                  Going back to Region 8, there are 

10           statistical analyses that suggest that 

11           Region 8's roads are among the most 

12           problematic in the state in terms of pavement 

13           condition scores and so on.  And also it 

14           appears that the gap between Region 8 and 

15           other regions seems to be growing over time.

16                  So what can be done to catch up 

17           Region 8?  And is it time to consider 

18           tweaking the funding formulas?

19                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So I 

20           would say a couple of things.  When we look 

21           at the capital plan, it's over five years.  

22           And so if there are parts of the state that 

23           DOT is executing the capital plan in, some 

24           years, you know, we oversubscribe in some 


                                                                   327

 1           areas and undersubscribe in others.  The 

 2           bottom line is is to bring the balance and to 

 3           bring the goals into line by the end of 

 4           Year 5.

 5                  So I would say give us the ability to 

 6           do all of that, because we have resources to 

 7           actually help come into play across the 

 8           board, meaning people, execution of 

 9           contracts, that type of thing.  So in the 

10           Hudson Valley in particular, if the concern 

11           is is that we may not have gotten to a 

12           contract or two -- like I said, sometimes we 

13           pull contracts that were -- or projects that 

14           were slated for outyears into the current 

15           year if they're more ripe.  And then the same 

16           thing; give us the time to do it over the 

17           course of the five years.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Okay.  What is 

19           DOT's current view on the use of red-light 

20           cameras to prevent the kinds of traffic and 

21           pedestrian fatalities we've been talking 

22           about, and how do you see that view evolving 

23           over time?

24                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Right now 


                                                                   328

 1           the Department of Transportation doesn't -- 

 2           the only red-light camera authority we have 

 3           is not red-light camera authority.  It is 

 4           actually cameras in the work zone.  And 

 5           that's the existing authority that we have to 

 6           monitor speed and enforce it.  It's specific 

 7           to highway workers and their safety.

 8                  Over the history of the department, 

 9           we've seen over 80 deaths in highway work 

10           zones.  Which is why we are grateful to the 

11           Legislature and to the Governor for the 

12           legislation that was passed, and what we're 

13           implementing right now.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  We need to 

15           clean out our culverts.  Thank you.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  All right, we 

17           got that last word in there.

18                  Member Gallagher, please.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Hi.

20                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Hello.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Nice to see 

22           you, Commissioner.  Thank you, Chair.

23                  I remember we had a great conversation 

24           about our environmental goals a couple of 


                                                                   329

 1           weeks ago.  And I was rereading the New York 

 2           City Comptroller's report, and it shows that 

 3           half of the highway formula funds spent in 

 4           New York have been used to expand highways.  

 5           So I was wondering, how does DOT calculate 

 6           the associated greenhouse gas emissions, 

 7           especially considering that there's 

 8           substantial research that demonstrates that 

 9           expanding highways induces more people to 

10           drive and leads to higher emissions?

11                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So I will 

12           tell you that one of the goals that we're 

13           looking to do across the board is, one, meet 

14           our CLCPA requirements, which requires carbon 

15           reduction.  So as we take on projects as the 

16           State DOT, we're not looking at 

17           capacity-enhancing projects.  We're not 

18           looking to build a wider footprint.  

19                  In fact, we're trying to actually make 

20           sure that we're not taking more land, that 

21           we're actually being very conscious about 

22           what we're doing to reduce vehicle miles 

23           traveled and the number of cars, and looking 

24           at alternatives.  We want to drive more 


                                                                   330

 1           transit, we want to drive more bike, we want 

 2           to drive more pedestrian.

 3                  And so all of those criterias are part 

 4           of how we scope out projects, so that we're 

 5           limiting the expansion, so to speak, of any 

 6           roadway.  What we're looking to do is 

 7           actually kind of refine it more, provide more 

 8           alternatives, and meet those goals under the 

 9           CLCPA.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Okay.  Well, 

11           then let's -- for example, in the Van Wyck 

12           Expressway, we're adding two more lanes to 

13           it.  So I don't see how that is helping our 

14           climate goals.  And in the Comptroller's 

15           report it said that we're adding lanes to 

16           most of these -- these projects.

17                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So the 

18           Van Wyck in particular is a project to do a 

19           couple of things.  One, the roadway is very 

20           old and in need of repair.  Two, it's 

21           creating a managed-use lane.  And it's within 

22           the existing footprint, so we're not taking 

23           additional land.  We're improving five 

24           bridges, including Long Island Rail Road 


                                                                   331

 1           bridges, to enhance capacity and efficiency 

 2           of the transit systems as well as create a 

 3           managed-use lane along the Van Wyck, so that 

 4           people can get to the airport in a more 

 5           streamlined fashion.

 6                  The bottom line is you've got so much 

 7           congestion on the Van Wyck right now.  We 

 8           need to get people moving faster so that the 

 9           emissions are not as high.  But the 

10           managed-use lane, moving forward, we can look 

11           at how we can use electric buses.  How do we 

12           actually manage the use of that lane is, you 

13           know, to be determined.  But the bottom line 

14           is there's a lot of different ways that we 

15           can utilize new technologies, new vehicles to 

16           actually make sure that we're using it 

17           wisely.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Okay.  

19           Thanks.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

21           Commissioner.  Thank you.

22                  Member Jacobson.

23                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Hello, 

24           sir.


                                                                   332

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Hi, 

 2           Commissioner.  Good to see you again.

 3                  Usually at these things I'm ranting 

 4           and raving about some problem, but I first 

 5           want to thank you for following up on our 

 6           conversation concerning Route 84 between the 

 7           Thruway exit and the Newburgh-Beacon Bridge, 

 8           which is so heavily traveled and was brutal.  

 9           And I can finally go to that area worrying 

10           about the traffic and not the potholes and 

11           worrying about my car.

12                  And thanks for meeting with me on the 

13           priorities in my district.

14                  One thing I want to bring up is -- and 

15           I mentioned this briefly -- is that local 

16           municipalities are under the obligation, and 

17           frankly they should be, to comply with ADA 

18           rules when they're paving.  And this happens 

19           in -- mostly in cities and villages.

20                  I think there should be a new formula 

21           or an additional formula with CHIPS with 

22           additional money for ADA compliance.  I mean, 

23           occasionally I'm able to get additional 

24           money, say, for the City of Newburgh to -- so 


                                                                   333

 1           that they're able to get more done.  But the 

 2           difficulty is is that it costs -- it costs as 

 3           much to do the -- or I'd say more, much more, 

 4           to do the ADA compliance with the paving.  So 

 5           I hope that you would try to do something on 

 6           that.

 7                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I can 

 8           tell you that the first thing that we've done 

 9           is be very clear on the compliance portion of 

10           the ADA, and that goes with our local program 

11           specifications as well, when I talk about the 

12           achievements that we've made and I rattled 

13           the list off to Senator Kennedy, ADA ramps or 

14           curb cuts, we have instituted about 2180 

15           statewide in the first two years of this 

16           capital plan.  

17                  So I realize it costs money.  It's the 

18           right thing to do.  And it helps across the 

19           board with accessibility.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  I mean, even if 

21           the program was such that the municipalities 

22           could be reimbursed.  Because obviously 

23           everybody would like to get additional money.  

24           But if they got reimbursed with proof of 


                                                                   334

 1           doing the ADA compliance in certain spots, it 

 2           could be a way of helping particularly cities 

 3           that have the burden.

 4                  The other thing is you mentioned about 

 5           the EV charging stations, which I've been a 

 6           big proponent.  One thing, though, the 

 7           state -- and mostly NYSERDA, but you work 

 8           with them -- has generally been pushing 

 9           Level 2 and not Level 3.  Level 3 is the 

10           quick one that you can get mostly done within 

11           a half-hour.  Level 2 is the slow one.  It's 

12           not as bad as Level 1 that you would have in 

13           your house.  

14                  But I was just hoping that you could 

15           push for that.

16                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So the 

17           NEVI program, the National Electric Vehicle 

18           Infrastructure program, we're working with 

19           NYPA and NYSERDA on that.  That is the DC 

20           fast-charging Level 3.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

22           Commissioner.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Okay, good.  

24           Thank you.


                                                                   335

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member Simon.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Thank you, 

 3           Mr. Chair.  And thank you, Commissioner, for 

 4           weathering this long testimony here.

 5                  So first I want to thank you for 

 6           always being accessible to me and to the 

 7           elected officials in my district in 

 8           Region 11, which is the really, really 

 9           biggest, most congested region in the city.  

10           And as you know, we've been organizing a 

11           corridor-wide group of people, including 

12           elected officials, along the BQE corridor, 

13           which I know is the bane of your existence as 

14           well as mine.  

15                  And, you know, as you know, we're 

16           united in wanting a solution to the BQE 

17           corridor that focuses on climate and health 

18           impacts and improves air quality throughout 

19           the corridor, which is just evidence of 

20           Robert Moses and mostly environmental justice 

21           communities that are really impacted by this.

22                  Now, I know that you've been working 

23           behind the scenes with City DOT on those 

24           things that State DOT has technical 


                                                                   336

 1           competence on, and I really appreciate that.  

 2           But one of the things we talked about is the 

 3           fact that the public doesn't realize that the 

 4           state is at the table.  And I really want to 

 5           ask if the state can come to the table and be 

 6           more actively involved in engaging with the 

 7           community, because they desperately want to 

 8           hear from you.  And I know you've 

 9           co-submitted a federal grant.  But if you 

10           could address that issue.

11                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So the -- 

12           we co-led an effort to submit the 

13           Reconnecting Communities grant, with 

14           City DOT.  We have been at every public 

15           meeting, representatives of New York State 

16           DOT, that has occurred through the city 

17           process.  

18                  And if we were to win this 

19           Reconnecting Communities grant, it would be 

20           yet another series of public engagements to 

21           try and scope out what those opportunities 

22           would be as we looked at what the additional 

23           opportunities north and south of the triple 

24           cantilever would be.  So we'll be doing that 


                                                                   337

 1           in conjunction with the city.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Yeah, I think my 

 3           point is that while people have been there, 

 4           too few people realize that the state is 

 5           there.  So it would be helpful if people 

 6           engaged a little bit, talked to people more, 

 7           that kind of thing, so that the public knows 

 8           that the state is at the table.

 9                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  

10           Understood.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Thank you.  I 

12           appreciate it very much.

13                  And I'm not going to ask you about 

14           culverts.  Although, you know --

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

16                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  They're 

17           really important for resiliency.  Thank you.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay, thank 

19           you, Commissioner.

20                  Member González-Rojas.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  Thank 

22           you, Commissioner.  Thank you, Chair.

23                  I've long been an advocate for 

24           pedestrian safety, cyclist safety, and public 


                                                                   338

 1           transportation -- and now a statistic.  I got 

 2           hit two weeks ago in New York City, and 

 3           obviously there's -- we've seen really high 

 4           rates of both crashes and deaths in our 

 5           communities.  And Assemblymember Cunningham 

 6           talked about children in particular.

 7                  So I think we spent some time today 

 8           talking about traffic violence.  It's at a 

 9           high crisis right now.  You talked about 

10           education, enforcement, information sharing.  

11           Our chairman mentioned supporting speed 

12           cameras.  Is there any other very specific 

13           engineering changes --

14                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Yes.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  -- 

16           capital changes?  Can you speak to them?  

17           What's your need, either this budget or 

18           moving forward, in order to really address 

19           the engineering or design to create more safe 

20           streets?

21                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So 

22           there's a number of categories that we look 

23           at from the engineering perspective.  And 

24           it's not -- it's not all dollar-driven, but 


                                                                   339

 1           there -- but if we were to define it, there's 

 2           some highway safety improvement dollars that 

 3           are leveraged at the federal level down to 

 4           the states.

 5                  There's Complete Streets.  We've got 

 6           especially -- the Legislature passed last 

 7           year $5 million that we're leveraging right 

 8           now, Complete Streets and targeting, in 

 9           particular, underserved communities.  But 

10           this gives us an opportunity to look at the 

11           engineering as well as the execution, I'll 

12           say, of creating those safer environments.

13                  I mean, quite frankly, the other thing 

14           that's -- the debate that's happening at the 

15           national level is also kind of the debate 

16           about the mental health of our country.  

17           Because you see people that are angry, 

18           they're distracted, and they're literally 

19           behind a car that weighs tons, and it becomes 

20           a vessel.

21                  And I'm sorry for your injury, but 

22           there's -- it's a more comprehensive look 

23           that we have to undertake.  There's a lot of 

24           research that's going on right now at the 


                                                                   340

 1           national level, Transportation Research Board 

 2           and others.  National Academy of Sciences is 

 3           looking at the science behind all this.  But 

 4           it's going to take a while to really 

 5           understand it.  In the meantime we need to do 

 6           everything we can to both look at the three 

 7           E's -- engineering, education, enforcement -- 

 8           but then also, as the Governor put forward in 

 9           the budget, look at the mental health of our 

10           citizens and how do we make sure that we're 

11           investing in all of that.  Because it plays 

12           out in all different ways.  Transportation's 

13           just one way.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS:  Thank 

15           you so much.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

17           Commissioner.

18                  Member Mitaynes, please.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  Hi.

20                  Sunset Park residents live every day 

21           with the continued environmental injustice of 

22           the Gowanus Expressway above Third Avenue.  

23           In addition to applying to the 

24           federal Reconnecting Communities grant, what 


                                                                   341

 1           is the agency doing now to mitigate the harm 

 2           and to protect and ensure the future plans 

 3           for the BQE, to eliminate the division 

 4           created by Robert Moses when it was built, 

 5           the elevated highway, reconnect the community 

 6           and reduce the air and noise impact of 

 7           traffic on the neighborhood?

 8                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Well, as 

 9           you noted, we're looking at the Reconnect -- 

10           we've done a lot of work already just on the 

11           structure of the bridge itself.  Over the 

12           last 10 years we've probably put in -- not 

13           the bridge, but the stretch of Roadway 278 

14           across the board, probably like $275 million 

15           over the -- for the preservation of it.

16                  That said, what you're asking about is 

17           how do we actually work with the community on 

18           some of the opportunities to improve the 

19           actual conditions around the structure.  And 

20           that Reconnecting Communities grant that we 

21           have applied for -- we're hoping that we 

22           receive it -- will give us a plan, will, you 

23           know, give us dollars to actually perform a 

24           study to see what those opportunities might 


                                                                   342

 1           look like in greater detail.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  And what is 

 3           New York State DOT's response to why New York 

 4           City is still not allowed to set its own 

 5           speed limit and use every tool available to 

 6           reduce crashes and fatalities on our streets?

 7                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I think 

 8           you're referring to the city setting their 

 9           own speed limits.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  Yes.  And 

11           what is your stance on the city not being 

12           able to do that?

13                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  We -- 

14           that is -- it's not an issue that's within 

15           the purview of New York State Department of 

16           Transportation with regard to setting speed 

17           limits for the city.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  Okay, thank 

19           you.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

21           Commissioner.

22                  Member Ra, ranker.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.  

24                  Good afternoon, Commissioner.


                                                                   343

 1                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Where -- 

 2           oh, there you are.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Let me also echo the 

 4           sentiments of my colleagues.  Thank you to 

 5           certainly you and your staff for their 

 6           responsiveness, especially down in the region 

 7           on Long Island.

 8                  I do want to follow up on a couple of 

 9           things, including what Mr. Slater asked 

10           about.  I understand -- you know, I think, 

11           and I even went back and looked at it, I'm 

12           sure counsel within your department could 

13           confirm that there are no restrictions on DOT 

14           sharing those reports with the minority, so I 

15           really ask you to take a strong look at that.  

16           But to the extent that you believe that 

17           you're prohibited, I will be drafting a bill 

18           to add the minority to the distribution list 

19           and would ask for the department's support in 

20           doing so.

21                  So putting that aside, though, I want 

22           to, on behalf of one of my colleagues, 

23           Anil Beephan, who is not a member of one of 

24           these communities so he's not able to 


                                                                   344

 1           participate, but I believe he recently has 

 2           written to the department regarding a 

 3           guardrail on the Taconic State Parkway in the 

 4           location near where a East Fishkill police 

 5           officer was recently killed.  And he just 

 6           asked if I could just bring that issue up and 

 7           bring it to your attention, because he's very 

 8           eager to work with the department on trying 

 9           to improve safety at that location.

10                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  I did 

11           receive his letter, and we are looking at it.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Okay.  Thank you.  I 

13           appreciate that.

14                  The other thing that I just wanted to 

15           get into is really a couple of local things 

16           down in the district I represent, both 

17           really -- I know they've been brought to the 

18           attention of the department in the past, but 

19           both relate to different sections of 

20           Hempstead Turnpike, also known as Route 24, 

21           you know, near the West Hempstead portion of 

22           this up to the Village of Hempstead line.  

23           I've gotten a lot of reports and complaints 

24           from constituents regarding the condition of 


                                                                   345

 1           the pavement at that location.  

 2                  There are other locations further west 

 3           that I think were repaved in recent years, 

 4           but it didn't go all the way to the village 

 5           line, the Village of Hempstead line, so I'd 

 6           ask you to look at that.

 7                  And then one that I think I pretty 

 8           much have brought up every year for several 

 9           years running is further up into East Meadow, 

10           and in the vicinity of the Nassau Hub 

11           property where there's a lot of talk about 

12           development there, including the Sands casino 

13           proposal.  There's been some other 

14           development done in the location.  And 

15           there's also talk very close to there of part 

16           of the Nassau Community College campus being 

17           used as a new medical campus.  

18                  And the Meadowbrook Parkway 

19           interchanges in that location I think have 

20           been in need of some modernization for 

21           several years.  So that's another location 

22           that I'd appreciate continued dialogue with 

23           your office regarding.

24                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Will do.


                                                                   346

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Commissioner, 

 3           I just have one more area I want to touch 

 4           base with.  So this is my second round here.  

 5           Very quickly.  

 6                  Last year the enacted budget included 

 7           $5 million for Complete Streets 

 8           infrastructure.  What is the status of that 

 9           funding?  How is it being disbursed?  Who is 

10           generally for the funding?  And how does DOT 

11           ensure that bike and pedestrian 

12           infrastructure is included in state road and 

13           bridge projects overall?  

14                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  So I'll 

15           start with the second piece of your question 

16           first, which is we have a checklist for 

17           Complete Streets.  And what I mean by a 

18           checklist is it's a really robust screening 

19           tool.  So that as we look to, you know, 

20           launch a project, the Complete Streets 

21           checklist is utilized by our design engineers 

22           to make sure that we're looking at it from 

23           every aspect.  How can we make sure that 

24           we're looking at geometry, design, lighting, 


                                                                   347

 1           painting, everything -- crosswalk safety, ADA 

 2           compliance.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  So this is 

 4           done on each project?  

 5                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  With 

 6           regard to the projects that are eligible for 

 7           Complete Streets treatments, yes.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  So --

 9                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  And then 

10           with regard to the $5 million investment in 

11           Complete Streets, we're moving on that.  

12           We've got projects that -- criteria that 

13           we've outlined and are applying right now.  

14                  So I can get you a more specific 

15           update on which projects those are.  But 

16           we've taken the $5 million investment and 

17           we've looked at how we can actually look at 

18           the underserved communities that it was 

19           intended to actually serve, and then we're 

20           putting out opportunities with our local 

21           partners to figure out how those dollars can 

22           be spent.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  I will 

24           follow up on those.


                                                                   348

 1                  But which projects does the DOT look 

 2           at for bike and pedestrian infrastructure to 

 3           be included in these projects?  How -- which 

 4           ones get it automatically?  Which ones do 

 5           your engineers automatically look at 

 6           Complete Streets?  

 7                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  There's a 

 8           category within our project list.  It's a 1R 

 9           category.  I don't know what that stands for; 

10           I wish I could tell you what the criteria 

11           are.  But it's basically how do we actually 

12           look at Complete Streets features.  

13                  One of the things that we're looking 

14           at that we've done differently is instead of 

15           saying, you know, you need to put all of the 

16           elements of Complete Streets, we're looking 

17           at, okay, maybe we can't apply every element, 

18           but there are some feature of Complete 

19           Streets that we can apply to various 

20           projects.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Right.  

22           Right.  Okay.  So, I mean, but you're 

23           looking -- the engineers are looking at that 

24           all the time.


                                                                   349

 1                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Correct.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  Not 

 3           that they're going to do a Complete Streets, 

 4           but they're going to look to see what might 

 5           be feasible.  

 6                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Correct.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.

 8                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  It's a 

 9           change in philosophy.  

10                  And the other portion of that is that 

11           we're developing an active transportation 

12           plan which does the -- which enhances it.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Well, with 

14           that, I think we're going to let you go.  

15                  (Laughter.)

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  I want to 

17           thank you very much for sitting through all 

18           of this.  I know it was not easy for you 

19           today, on a personal note.  And I really do 

20           appreciate it.  I know we all do, to you and 

21           the department.  Thank you very much for 

22           answering our questions.  I look forward to 

23           working with you this year.

24                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Thank 


                                                                   350

 1           you.  Thank you very much.  

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  The same for the 

 3           Senate.  Thank you very much.

 4                  DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:  Thank 

 5           you.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  All right.  

 7           We're into Panel A, I think.  Is that what 

 8           we're calling it?

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  That's what we're 

10           calling it.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  The New York 

12           State Department of Motor Vehicles and the 

13           New York State Thruway Authority, come on 

14           down.  Thank you.

15                  (Off the record.)

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  If people can 

17           move in and out as quietly as possible so we 

18           can keep going.  Thank you.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay, I guess 

20           we will start with the Department of Motor 

21           Vehicles.  Commissioner, are you set?

22                  (Off the record.)

23                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Okay?

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.


                                                                   351

 1                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

 2           you.  Thank you.  Good afternoon.  As a 

 3           former member of the New York State 

 4           Legislature, it is an honor to be with all of 

 5           you today.

 6                  It is my privilege to serve as the 

 7           Commissioner of Motor Vehicles and to lead a 

 8           customer-focused organization of nearly 

 9           3,000 dedicated civil servants.  

10                  For the past five years, I have 

11           challenged the agency to reimagine our 

12           customer service model and embrace innovation 

13           to eliminate the status quo.  Through that 

14           mindset, and by putting our strategic plan 

15           into action, we are serving customers in 

16           record time, we have more online transactions 

17           than ever, made it easier to contact the DMV, 

18           and we are very close to updating our 

19           technology to further build on our success.  

20                  Governor Hochul's Executive Budget 

21           provides $665 million for DMV to implement 

22           those critical improvements and to support 

23           operations at both state and county-run 

24           offices.  This is more than offset by the 


                                                                   352

 1           approximately $2 billion, $2 billion DMV 

 2           generates annually.  

 3                  Thanks to the continued investment by 

 4           the Governor and the Legislature, we expect 

 5           to launch a project this year to replace 

 6           DMV's 50-year-old driver and registration 

 7           systems with more streamlined and 

 8           user-friendly technology.  It will not only 

 9           simplify and modernize our systems for today, 

10           but will allow us to implement technology 

11           changes more easily in the future.  

12                  The transformation of our call center 

13           will also continue.  Last year, we launched 

14           and then expanded online chat and email 

15           interactions.  This year, we will leverage 

16           the latest technology to make a more seamless 

17           journey whether New Yorkers visit an office, 

18           call us, or use our website.  

19                  Part of reimagining the DMV led us to 

20           look at our offices to make sure they are 

21           right-sized for the volume of customers they 

22           help and that we are being good stewards of 

23           taxpayer resources.  Today, with more than 

24           75, 75 online transactions available, we are 


                                                                   353

 1           serving more customers from the comfort of 

 2           their homes and fewer in person.  In 2023, 

 3           8 million transactions were completed online. 

 4           That customer benefit enabled us to 

 5           consolidate our offices in Suffolk County 

 6           this past August -- a change that has been 

 7           positive and allowed us to boost staffing in 

 8           the remaining four locations in Suffolk that 

 9           historically served the most customers.  

10                  We also consolidated our innovation 

11           center to a prime location on the Empire 

12           State Plaza concourse that I know many of you 

13           and your constituents have used.  

14                  We will continue to evaluate our 

15           operational footprint and explore 

16           possibilities to minimize costs, as we 

17           further move into the age of digital 

18           transactions.  

19                  DMV staff have also been at the 

20           forefront of the state's fight against 

21           surging vehicle thefts and implementing 

22           various measures of the Governor's auto theft 

23           reduction strategy.  This past year alone, 

24           DMV recovered $8.7 million worth of stolen 


                                                                   354

 1           vehicles and vehicle parts, and we worked 

 2           with auto dealers and manufacturers to assist 

 3           vehicle owners in preventing thefts.  

 4                  Regarding limo safety.  At the 

 5           direction of the Governor, DMV remains 

 6           focused on enhancing safety and increasing 

 7           enforcement surrounding stretch limousines.  

 8           More than 15 arrests have been made related 

 9           to illegal operation of stretch limousines 

10           because of extensive work and collaboration 

11           among DMV, DOT, and law enforcement.  And I'm 

12           happy to report that many of the 

13           recommendations of the Stretch Limousine 

14           Passenger Safety Task Force, which I 

15           cochaired, have been implemented, and the 

16           ones requiring legislation have been included 

17           in a recent budget bill introduced by the 

18           Governor.  

19                  Regarding tolling.  We also know that 

20           the modernization of the state's tolling 

21           system has presented challenges.  DMV is 

22           working with tolling authorities to impose 

23           administrative actions against toll evaders, 

24           and we have partnered with law enforcement to 


                                                                   355

 1           crack down on the use of illegal or defaced 

 2           license plates.  

 3                  Keeping our roads safe is central to 

 4           the mission of both DMV and the Governor's 

 5           Traffic Safety Committee, which I chair. 

 6           Together, we recently proposed a series of 

 7           regulatory amendments to make it easier to 

 8           remove persistently dangerous drivers from 

 9           our roadways.  We anticipate this rule-making 

10           process to continue this year.  

11                  Regarding e-bikes.  We recognize the 

12           transportation industry is never standing 

13           still, and we need to evolve with it to keep 

14           pace with emerging trends like the rise in 

15           e-bikes.  The Governor's Traffic Safety 

16           Committee is proactively working with 

17           New York City's Vision Zero and other 

18           partners to promote safe operation and 

19           storage of these devices.  

20                  GTSC also instituted a focused effort 

21           to enhance traffic safety engagement in 

22           underrepresented communities that are 

23           disproportionately impacted by traffic 

24           crashes and fatalities.  Specific attention 


                                                                   356

 1           was given to pedestrian, bike, and 

 2           micro-mobility safety.  

 3                  Regarding diversity.  We are also 

 4           keenly focused on increasing equity within 

 5           our agency and maintaining a welcoming and 

 6           diverse place for our employees, vendors, and 

 7           the residents we serve.  This past year we 

 8           established an office of Diversity, Equity, 

 9           and Inclusion to advance our goals.  I am 

10           also thrilled to say that more than 

11           72 percent -- more than 72 percent of our 

12           spending is done through MWBEs, and more than 

13           20 percent is done through service-disabled 

14           veteran-owned businesses, which is far above 

15           the 6 percent required by law.  

16                  Regarding reentry.  As part of 

17           Governor Hochul's historic Jails to Jobs 

18           initiative, we also expanded a project to 

19           provide incarcerated individuals with 

20           state-issued IDs prior to their release.  I 

21           am very proud to tell you that all 43 

22           Department of Corrections and Community 

23           Supervision, DOCCS, facilities are now 

24           participating, and more 700 non-driver IDs 


                                                                   357

 1           have been issued.  This is critical to 

 2           ensuring that that individuals can get a job, 

 3           find housing, access services, and ultimately 

 4           reenter society successfully.  

 5                  Regarding CDLs.  Addressing the 

 6           shortage of truck and bus drivers continues 

 7           to be an area of focus for DMV.  At the 

 8           Governor's direction we recently implemented 

 9           a federal waiver for part of the commercial 

10           driver license road test to make it easier to 

11           get prospective bus drivers licensed and 

12           ready to meet the need of our schools 

13           statewide.  

14                  Regarding Donate Life.  DMV is also 

15           uniquely positioned to support the state's 

16           organ donor registry.  More than 80 percent 

17           of potential donors join the registry through 

18           the DMV.  This past year we gave New Yorkers 

19           another way to join the registry by adding 

20           that life-saving question to vehicle 

21           registration transactions.  

22                  And finally, we like to have a little 

23           fun at DMV, so I was proud to tour the state 

24           last year to unveil new regional license 


                                                                   358

 1           plates.  They are reflective of the unique 

 2           landscape and history across the state and 

 3           give residents a way to show their pride in 

 4           their communities.  

 5                  As you can see, the DMV is as diverse 

 6           as the people, businesses, and entities we 

 7           serve and support.  Our strength is in that 

 8           diversity, our willingness to adapt, and the 

 9           commitment of our workforce to provide 

10           exemplary service to the people of this great 

11           state.  And it does not go unnoticed.  I 

12           start every executive meeting with a reading 

13           of what I call customer kudos, compliments 

14           that people have sent in to praise DMV for a 

15           job well done.  So I would like to take a 

16           minute to brag and share some of the recent 

17           comments we received.  

18                  One New Yorker said, "The best DMV 

19           experience I've ever had."  Another said, "I 

20           was in and out in 15 minutes because the 

21           process was so efficient."  Another 

22           New Yorker:  "I pulled up in the parking lot 

23           and returned to my car in 10 minutes with new 

24           plates in hand."  And finally, a customer 


                                                                   359

 1           wrote:  "Thank you for dispelling the 

 2           stereotypes about nonresponsive government." 

 3                  Those comments convey exactly what we 

 4           have set out to do, but our work is not done. 

 5           Transforming the DMV has become part of our 

 6           agency's identity.  

 7                  And I will entertain any questions 

 8           that you might have.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

10           Thank you.

11                  Acting Director?  Not acting -- active 

12           director, right?  What is the --

13                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Acting, 

14           Mr. Chairman.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.

16                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Thank 

17           you.  Thank you, Chairs Krueger and 

18           Magnarelli and Senator Kennedy and Chair 

19           Comrie and Chair Zebrowski. 

20                  My name is Frank Hoare.  I'm the 

21           acting executive director of the Thruway 

22           Authority.  With your permission, after 

23           having served here for 11 years as the 

24           general counsel to Chairman Denny Farrell, I 


                                                                   360

 1           understand that brevity is the soul of 

 2           testimony.

 3                  (Laughter.)

 4                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  So with 

 5           your permission, I would dispense with my 

 6           written remarks and just give the highlights.  

 7           Thank you.

 8                  The Thruway Authority budget 

 9           represents a total commitment of 

10           $1.3 billion.  It provides the resources 

11           required to maintain the current levels of 

12           maintenance, safety and service that our 

13           customers have come to expect.  This balanced 

14           spending plan includes $450 million for 

15           capital program improvements in the next year 

16           over the Thruway system.

17                  Looking ahead, our five-year capital 

18           program will commit $2.4 billion into 

19           resurfacing our road, rebuilding and 

20           rehabilitating bridges, and enhancing safety 

21           features like guide-rail and road striping.  

22           That figure represents an increase of 

23           approximately $500 million from the 2023 

24           budget, and it is made possible because of 


                                                                   361

 1           the toll adjustment that took effect this 

 2           past January 1st.  Again, I repeat, that's 

 3           $2.4 billion over the next five years.  That 

 4           means greater safety, and it means 

 5           New Yorkers going to work.

 6                  The 2024 capital program makes 

 7           critical investments and addresses 

 8           infrastructure needs throughout the state and 

 9           in our four operational divisions.  In the 

10           Capital Region, we will be resurfacing 

11           approximately 36 lane miles between 

12           Schenectady and Rotterdam, and increasing the 

13           bridge height at the Exit 25 interchange 

14           bridge.

15                  In the Mid-Hudson Valley, we will be 

16           resurfacing nearly 50 lane miles of I-87 

17           between Harriman and Newburgh.  In Western 

18           New York, we will be reconstructing the first 

19           four miles of the Niagara Thruway in Buffalo 

20           between I-90 and Elm Street, as well as 

21           resurfacing more than 64 lane miles on I-90 

22           between Dunkirk and Westfield.  Central 

23           New York will see the resurfacing of 

24           approximately 50 lane miles between 


                                                                   362

 1           Canajoharie and Little Falls, in addition to 

 2           the rehabilitation of approximately 24 miles 

 3           in the Rochester area between Canandaigua and 

 4           Victor.  This work translates to a smoother 

 5           riding surface for motorists, enhanced safety 

 6           features, and a visual reminder of our 

 7           reinvestment of our customers' toll dollars.  

 8                  As a testament to our fiscal prudence 

 9           and discipline, Standard & Poor's recently 

10           raised its long-term rating on our general 

11           revenue bonds to A+.  Additionally, Moody's 

12           Investors Service revised their outlook to 

13           positive from stable and affirmed the A1 

14           rating of the outstanding general revenue 

15           bonds.  This translates to real savings by 

16           enabling the authority to borrow at lower 

17           rates, and therefore allows us to make 

18           further investments in our system.

19                  In 2023, motorists took 397 million 

20           trips and drove 8.1 billion miles on the 

21           Thruway.  The Thruway is the principal artery 

22           of commerce and serves as a catalyst of the 

23           state's economic activity, with 17 percent of 

24           our total traffic coming from commercial 


                                                                   363

 1           vehicles and about one-third of that from out 

 2           of state.

 3                  Our service areas, just like the 

 4           Thruway system, provide benefits to local 

 5           communities.  For example, the Taste NY 

 6           program, which recently celebrated its 

 7           10th anniversary, is prominently featured at 

 8           our farmer's markets in our service areas.  

 9           We are supporting local farmers and food and 

10           beverage producers.

11                  Other community benefits include 

12           partnerships with local small businesses, who 

13           are awarded contracts to work on the Thruway 

14           system.  The authority pays annually in 

15           excess of $270 million to contractors and 

16           other providers of goods and services that 

17           are based in New York.

18                  That is part of our service area 

19           project of $450 million in investment, where 

20           23 of the 27 service areas will be rebuilt, 

21           with significant renovations to the remaining 

22           four.  Currently we are close to halfway 

23           through the project, with 13 new buildings 

24           open and three more by the start of the 


                                                                   364

 1           summer travel season.  Again I note that no 

 2           toll dollars or federal, state or local 

 3           taxpayer funding is being used in the 

 4           reconstruction.  

 5                  Another feature is the EV chargers 

 6           along the Thruway as part of our continued 

 7           commitment to the environment.  Currently 

 8           there are 59 EV charging stations in 

 9           operation at Thruway commuter lots, select 

10           service areas, and welcome centers.  We have 

11           an additional 38 high-speed charging stations 

12           that will be operational by this summer, for 

13           a total of 97 charging stations.  Motorists 

14           can currently drive from New York City to 

15           Buffalo and be confident in their ability to 

16           access EV charging stations along the 

17           entirety of the Thruway.

18                  The operator will be installing at 

19           least four high-speed EV chargers at each 

20           service area, and our plan is to create a 

21           robust end-to-end corridor of more than 

22           130 fast-charging EV stations with an average 

23           of 30 miles between each location, which 

24           exceeds the federal standard, which is at 


                                                                   365

 1           50 miles.

 2                  The authority currently meets the EV 

 3           charging needs of our customers, and we are 

 4           planning for the future of our customers' 

 5           charging needs.  Over the next approximately 

 6           10 years we will add 320 EV charging stations 

 7           along the Thruway.  In addition to addressing 

 8           the EV needs of passenger vehicles, we are 

 9           working toward increasing the EV needs of the 

10           medium and heavy-duty vehicle industry.  

11                  Because tolls are our primary revenue 

12           source, we expect all motorists using the 

13           Thruway to pay their tolls, and we make every 

14           effort to collect every single toll owed to 

15           us.  The vast majority of our customers 

16           appreciate our commitment to them and pay on 

17           time.  

18                  To bolster our toll collection 

19           efforts, I want to express our support and 

20           thanks to Governor Hochul's Article VII toll 

21           violation proposal, which is in the TED bill 

22           at Part C.  This bill will outlaw certain 

23           common toll evasion practices and it will 

24           enhance the enforcement by increasing fines 


                                                                   366

 1           and providing law enforcement with the 

 2           ability to seize materials affixed for the 

 3           purpose of blocking numbered plates.  

 4                  And speaking of great legislation, we 

 5           want to thank you.  We see the benefits of 

 6           Chairman Kennedy and Chairman Magnarelli's 

 7           Automated Work Zone Speed Enforcement program 

 8           that Governor Hochul signed into law in 

 9           September of 2021.  We have seen drivers 

10           change their behavior by slowing down in work 

11           zones.  We have seen them drop their average 

12           speed from 55 to 50.  And since the program's 

13           inception, the authority has mailed more than 

14           40,000 first violations to motorists and 

15           collected more than 1.6 million in 

16           violations, all of which is funneled back 

17           into safety programs.

18                  And I would note that fewer than 

19           360 motorists out of those 40,000 have 

20           disputed their notices of violation.

21                  Finally, our accomplishments are made 

22           possible because of the dedication of our 

23           board of directors and the commitment from 

24           the 1700 employees of the Thruway Authority.  


                                                                   367

 1           Their dedication and professionalism ensure 

 2           that the Thruway continues to be a safe and 

 3           reliable highway for all motorists.  

 4                  A recent example of this selflessness 

 5           and dedication are the most recent storms in 

 6           Western New York that brought whiteout 

 7           conditions, heavy winds, frigid temperatures 

 8           and several feet of snow in some areas.  The 

 9           Buffalo division led the way and included 

10           reinforcements from the Thruway Authority's 

11           Albany, New York and Syracuse divisions, who 

12           worked around the clock in freezing 

13           temperatures to plow and assist commercial 

14           drivers who had ventured out, in defiance of 

15           the commercial ban that was instituted, and 

16           got stuck. 

17                  In closing, please know I remain 

18           committed to keeping the Thruway the safest 

19           and most reliable means of travel in the 

20           state.  Whether one is commuting to work, 

21           visiting family or friends, enjoying the 

22           recreational opportunities around our state, 

23           or supporting the freight economy, the 

24           Thruway will take you there.


                                                                   368

 1                  That concludes my testimony, subject 

 2           to your questions.  Thank you very much.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

 4           We're going to start out with the Senate, I 

 5           believe.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Chair Tim 

 7           Kennedy.  

 8                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you very much.  

 9                  Commissioner Schroeder, thank you for 

10           that testimony.  Very good to hear all the 

11           positive things happening at the DMV.  Also 

12           to Executive Director Hoare, thank you so 

13           much for your leadership and your 

14           partnership.  The both of you have been 

15           extraordinarily responsive.  Anytime my 

16           office has reached out, your teams have been 

17           exceptional to work with, and I'm very 

18           grateful.

19                  Starting with the DMV, I'm going to 

20           try and cut my time in half here.  Just 

21           getting into the Internet Point and Insurance 

22           Reduction Program that's extended for a 

23           couple more years in the Executive proposal, 

24           it was first authorized back in 2005.  Are 


                                                                   369

 1           there any changes in the extension, or is it 

 2           simply a clean extension?  And is it 

 3           something that you would like to see the 

 4           IPIRP program made permanent by the 

 5           Legislature?  

 6                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Senator, 

 7           as you indicated, this started some time ago.  

 8           It started when I was in the New York State 

 9           Assembly, and it is part of TED Part F.  And 

10           it will extend now to 2026.

11                  The course is available for people who 

12           want an insurance discount or who seek to 

13           reduce the number of points against them on 

14           their driving record.  

15                  In terms of it being permanent, I 

16           would say respectfully that's probably 

17           something for the Legislature to consider.  

18           But for now we've been able to do everything 

19           we're supposed to do in terms of working it 

20           properly even through the extension program.

21                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Great.  Thank you.

22                  The Executive proposal calls for an 

23           increase in appropriations at the DMV citing 

24           technology.  Can you discuss what those 


                                                                   370

 1           upgrades would be and what benefits that 

 2           customers could expect to see?

 3                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

 4           you, Senator.  And I often use your 

 5           neighborhoods to talk about what DMV has gone 

 6           through over the last 50 or 60 years.  If you 

 7           know, if you remember -- and I know you do -- 

 8           in some of your old neighborhoods like Little 

 9           Hollywood, the Old First Ward, and the Valley 

10           area, there's little cabooses on the end of 

11           their houses, right?  And then when the 

12           couple were going to have another baby, there 

13           would be another caboose, and another 

14           caboose.  

15                  This is exactly what DMV has done over 

16           the last 60 years.  We have legacy lines that 

17           date back to Governor Rockefeller.  And then 

18           what did we do?  In the seventies we added 

19           on, we added on, we added on.  When you add 

20           on like that, it's not going to be a 

21           comprehensive product.  

22                  So what we're doing -- and this 

23           funding, this $168 million really does help 

24           us, so we're grateful to the Governor and to 


                                                                   371

 1           the Legislature.  This will underwrite the 

 2           transformation and also the tech redesign.  

 3           We probably have over 150 data lines.  We 

 4           don't need them.  We're going to retire them.  

 5           And then this project is helping us 

 6           underwrite what we need to bring in the new 

 7           technology.  

 8                  So we're very excited about this.  

 9           We've been working on this for a long time.  

10           I have 20 teams that have been working on 

11           this for as long as I've been the 

12           commissioner, since 2019.  We are making 

13           tremendous progress.  This is a five-year 

14           comprehensive plan.  It's probably going to 

15           take us four years to enact, and we're deep 

16           involved in it right now, and we're grateful 

17           for your support.

18                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Great.  Great.  

19           Thank you very much.

20                  Last year the Legislature passed and 

21           the Governor signed legislation that permits 

22           driver's license reciprocity.  And I'm very 

23           grateful for your efforts with me and my 

24           colleagues in helping to make that happen and 


                                                                   372

 1           work through the process so that it actually 

 2           could become law.

 3                  Where is the DMV as it pertains to 

 4           that agreement?  And have there been any -- 

 5           you know, in the process working it through, 

 6           have there been any agreements with any 

 7           nations or territories yet?

 8                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yes.  So, 

 9           you know, thanks to the Legislature, thanks 

10           to the Governor, it is law.  In DMV, we 

11           embrace the law.  And so we are 100 percent 

12           involved in this.

13                  To date, to be specific, to answer 

14           your question, France, Taiwan and the 

15           Dominican Republic have expressed interest in 

16           establishing a reciprocal agreement.

17                  The difficult part -- we're going to 

18           be able to do it, but the complexity here is 

19           that DMV now has the responsibility to 

20           revaluate the countries who are seeking 

21           reciprocity, because we have to make sure 

22           that we're on the same page here.  And so we 

23           are prepared, DMV is ready to roll, and we 

24           will continue to report out the progress.  


                                                                   373

 1           But it's not only for the three countries I 

 2           just mentioned.  Any country who has an 

 3           interest in New York State, once they go 

 4           through the application process, we will 

 5           engage with them and make sure that we're 

 6           successful.

 7                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Perfect.  Thank you 

 8           very much.  And thank you again, 

 9           Commissioner.  

10                  To Mr. Hoare, thank you again for your 

11           leadership, your efforts.  I want to switch 

12           to the Thruway Authority.  Can you give us an 

13           update on the status of the rest stop 

14           reconstruction project and when we can 

15           expect full completion?

16                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  

17           Currently there are 13 out of the 27 rest 

18           stops that have been completely rebuilt.  

19           They're open and functioning.  In the next 

20           several months, by the start of the summer 

21           driving season, you'll see another three open 

22           up.  And then that -- the remaining 11 will 

23           open up by the end of -- over the next 18 

24           months, but by the end of -- we anticipate by 


                                                                   374

 1           the end of 2025 the project being completed.

 2                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Great.  So it is on 

 3           track.

 4                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Well, 

 5           it's on a new track.  There is an 

 6           eight-to-10-month delay that we've 

 7           experienced, allegedly -- the design-builder 

 8           alleges because of COVID and geopolitical 

 9           events, so we'll see.

10                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  But it's moving 

11           forward.

12                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  It's 

13           moving forward, yes.

14                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Construction 

15           continues.

16                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  It does.

17                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you.

18                  Are there any changes -- first of all, 

19           thank you for recognizing the work zone 

20           safety legislation that was passed and signed 

21           into law.  You know, it's clearly working, 

22           and those numbers are eye-popping.  Are there 

23           any changes that the Thruway Authority would 

24           recommend to that program, how successful 


                                                                   375

 1           you've been catching speeders, and what we 

 2           can do to enhance it, especially with repeat 

 3           offenders?

 4                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  We've 

 5           seen many -- maybe about 40,000 are repeat 

 6           offenders {sic}.  So at this point I think 

 7           it's working.  We see it in the numbers.  And 

 8           again, I think the most important fact is 

 9           what we've seen from the data is that finally 

10           folks have that message and they are dropping 

11           their miles per hour as they approach a work 

12           zone.  The word is out.

13                  We operate 10 on a weekly basis.  We 

14           move them around.  And we have seen -- we've 

15           been successful in -- we think in dropping 

16           that number, and the numbers, the data 

17           support that.

18                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Yeah, again, 40,000 

19           violations is an eye-popping number.

20                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  And I 

21           think the 360 only challenging it shows that 

22           that -- how many people realize what they 

23           did.

24                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Right.  Thank you 


                                                                   376

 1           for that.

 2                  Just going back to the service area 

 3           redesign and the redevelopment project, it 

 4           calls for an installation of high-speed EV 

 5           chargers at all areas.  Do these plans leave 

 6           room for growth as we continue to see EVs 

 7           become more and more the norm?  And what 

 8           additional steps can we take to enhance the 

 9           use of these EV chargers and the expansion of 

10           them in the redesign plan?

11                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Senator, 

12           the current contract to rebuild the Thruway 

13           service areas calls for a minimum of four to 

14           six EV chargers at each service area, 

15           depending on the size.  But built into the 

16           contract is a provision that the operator 

17           must increase those numbers as demand grows.

18                  So as I said, over the next 10 years 

19           the plan is to add an additional 320 chargers 

20           throughout the system.  And again, we have 

21           them not just at the service areas, we have 

22           them at our park-and-ride lots, we have them 

23           at the landings on the Cuomo Bridge, and we 

24           have them at the welcome centers.


                                                                   377

 1                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  In part of my work 

 2           as Transportation chair I've come across new 

 3           technology that will allow for charging 

 4           infrastructure for vehicles while they're 

 5           actually moving.  Is the Thruway Authority 

 6           examining the feasibility of doing a pilot on 

 7           this sort of technology?

 8                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Well, 

 9           we're following the technology every day.  We 

10           are applying aggressively for federal grants.  

11           We hope to be part of some of the federal 

12           spending on that, to increase those numbers.  

13           But we are talking with partners in the 

14           private sector --

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you, Frank.  

16           You'll need to follow up afterwards or in 

17           writing.  Thank you.

18                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Complete that 

19           sentence in writing.

20                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Yes, 

21           sir.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay, I 

23           believe I have a few questions, so we're 

24           going to start it with the commissioner of 


                                                                   378

 1           DMV.  Okay?  

 2                  The proposed budget from the Governor 

 3           calls for an increase of $184 million for the 

 4           DMV, right?  And about 178.4 million of that 

 5           appropriation is for basically your IT 

 6           upgrades, which we're kind of in the last 

 7           phases of, from what I understand and from 

 8           what you've been talking about.  

 9                  But a couple of questions.  Will any 

10           additional funding be required for this 

11           project?  When will the upgrades be complete?  

12           What new services will be moved online, and 

13           what other improvements will your customers 

14           experience as a result of the project?  Are 

15           there any specific benchmarks for improving 

16           service?  And will these IT upgrades result 

17           in any savings?  

18                  So in other words, are we on stride?  

19           Is it going to cost any more money?  And what 

20           are we getting out of it when it's done?

21                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah, 

22           thank you.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  

23                  And so this is what I refer to as a 

24           five-year comprehensive plan of excellence.  


                                                                   379

 1           It's going to take us about four years to 

 2           implement.  And so we are going strong right 

 3           now.  And also the services in terms -- when 

 4           I became the commissioner, we could do about 

 5           47 online transactions.  We now can do 77.  

 6                  The goal of DMV is meet your 

 7           constituents and our customers where they 

 8           are.  So the goal is that we want to be able 

 9           to do every single transaction online to give 

10           our customers that option.

11                  The only two things that we're unable 

12           to do right now are federal requirements 

13           having to do with Real ID and the Enhanced 

14           Driver's License.  But everything else we are 

15           trying.  And this -- this opportunity of 

16           transformation and tech redesign, we're in 

17           the driver's seat to be able to do this.

18                  In terms of the benchmarks that you 

19           talk about, when I talk about the kudos, the 

20           compliments, these are New Yorkers who are 

21           busy.  These are legislators, Assemblymembers 

22           and Senators who are busy.  And when they 

23           call us and when they email us to tell us a 

24           job well done, that means we are hitting the 


                                                                   380

 1           benchmarks that we strive to do.  When 

 2           customers say, "You know, the last time I 

 3           came into DMV it took me four hours; now it's 

 4           15 minutes."  So things are really going well 

 5           in that regard. 

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  I understand 

 7           that, Commissioner.  And I consider those 

 8           testimonials -- and you've gotten them from 

 9           my office, okay?  So I'm one of them.

10                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

11           you.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  The bottom 

13           line, though, is like what are we comparing 

14           it against?  Are we saving any money?  Are we 

15           looking -- or is it just, and validly, it's 

16           just giving better service?  Okay.  But, I 

17           mean, what are we going to measure it against 

18           to see whether or not this program is 

19           successful?  

20                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah, 

21           it's a great question.  And I can tell you 

22           anecdotally, and you'll know exactly what I'm 

23           talking about.  If you recall, last year in 

24           Onondaga County the DMV office went down.  It 


                                                                   381

 1           went down because there were outages and 

 2           glitches.  That is a -- that's inconvenient 

 3           for your constituents, but it also -- it also 

 4           costs us money.  So when we're able to be -- 

 5           when we're able to have the proper 

 6           technology, and that's the course we're on 

 7           right now, there will be savings, no doubt.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  There's one 

 9           other question I want to ask you also.  The 

10           Executive proposal Article VII authorizes DMV 

11           to replace the existing system to verify 

12           motor vehicle insurance with an online 

13           insurance verification system.  Okay?  I 

14           don't believe that's the same thing that 

15           Senator Kennedy was asking you about.  But 

16           what I'm concerned about here in a nutshell 

17           is who's driving this, the DMV or the 

18           insurance companies?  And who's going to make 

19           the final determination on the outcome?  

20                  Because I'm concerned about that.  I 

21           want to make sure -- to be honest with you, I 

22           want to make sure the DMV makes the final 

23           determination of how we're going to do this.  

24           And that's what I'm looking at in that 


                                                                   382

 1           Article VII language.

 2                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  So 

 3           Mr. Chairman, to your concerns, they lay with 

 4           DMV.  DMV and our staff will be -- will 

 5           continue to implement.  This will be a 

 6           technology.  This technology will be 

 7           integrated in with our four-year plan of 

 8           reform.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Right.  I 

10           guess my concern here is that it doesn't cost 

11           the state more money or more time.  If it's 

12           something that's going to be for the 

13           convenience of the outside companies, that's 

14           fine, as long as it meshes with your system, 

15           your project, your people.  That's all I'm 

16           saying.

17                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  And it 

18           does.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  All 

20           right.

21                  Director Hoare, I've got a couple of 

22           questions here.  First of all, you know, 

23           speeding, we're talking about speeding.  And 

24           I want to pick piggyback on what 


                                                                   383

 1           Senator Kennedy was saying as far as the work 

 2           zone cameras are concerned and how good they 

 3           are.  

 4                  What about just speeding cameras?  

 5           Because what I'm seeing -- and what I said to 

 6           the DOT earlier, is that there is, as far as 

 7           I can see, a proliferation of lawlessness, so 

 8           to speak.  People speeding, disregarding the 

 9           rules of the road, the laws of the road 

10           completely.  

11                  Is there any thought of speed cameras 

12           on the Thruway?

13                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  There's 

14           not.  And we -- certainly anecdotally we have 

15           seen that over the last two years.  It seems 

16           to be another symptom of COVID in terms of 

17           driving behavior.  And successful, with your 

18           legislation, at least in the work zone 

19           slowing people down.  But we have no present 

20           plans right now to add additional speed 

21           cameras to the Thruway system.  

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  Well, 

23           that's something I'd like to look at.  

24                  Talking about EV needs into the 


                                                                   384

 1           future, I just find it very hard to 

 2           believe -- I'm not saying you're wrong, 

 3           because I don't have anything to go on 

 4           either.  But the number, 130 or something EV 

 5           charging stations on the Thruway, like that's 

 6           going to be enough.  I think even you said in 

 7           your testimony that in 10 years you're going 

 8           to need 320.  That doesn't seem enough to me.  

 9           But again, maybe I'm just plain wrong.  

10                  The one thing, though, that I have 

11           been talking to people about are the EV needs 

12           for medium and heavy-duty traffic, okay, on 

13           the Thruway.  And not only the amounts of EVs 

14           that you have, but how that electricity is 

15           going to be distributed to your sites to take 

16           care of those heavy-duty vehicles.  It's -- 

17           from what I'm being told, it's astronomical 

18           in terms of money and time to produce maybe 

19           not what's on your site, but what's going to 

20           get the electricity to your site.

21                  Are there any conversations going on 

22           right now with the Thruway and the electrical 

23           distribution people, okay?

24                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Yes.  We 


                                                                   385

 1           are in those conversations.  You identified 

 2           what makes it so complicated.  There are so 

 3           many pieces to this.  The utilities have said 

 4           to us that putting these -- providing the 

 5           power to do these EV chargers is like 

 6           servicing a small city.  So there are 

 7           challenges ahead.  We are in those 

 8           discussions.  

 9                  Part of the federal grant, as we apply 

10           for federal grants with our DOT partners, 

11           they are part -- "they" being the utilities 

12           are a big part of the discussion as well.  

13           And right now less than 1 percent of 

14           registered vehicles in New York are electric 

15           vehicles.  So when I say we have the 

16           resources right now to provide those 

17           services, we do.  

18                  But we recognize -- we're not sitting 

19           back.  We recognize that those needs are 

20           going to go up.  I mean, it's a complicated 

21           problem.  It's something that's being 

22           addressed nationally.  Every day, if you look 

23           in the business papers or the newspapers, 

24           there's stories about EV manufacturers, 


                                                                   386

 1           electric battery manufacturers.  So it's 

 2           something that we are working very hard.  And 

 3           I'm fortunate to have a lot of smart people 

 4           that work for us at the Thruway who give a 

 5           lot of thought to this, to plan and to be 

 6           ready for the future.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  I'm just 

 8           thinking, if this is going to happen within 

 9           the next 10 years that this is starting to 

10           ramp up, are we putting together some 

11           consortium of companies, distribution people, 

12           electric generating people, everybody 

13           together in a room to get some kind of a plan 

14           to really build this out?  

15                  I'm not seeing that anywhere.  I'm 

16           seeing everybody talking in silos.  This is 

17           going to be a problem, you're going to have a 

18           problem.  We all agree, there's problems 

19           every step of the way.  Are we putting 

20           anything together at this point in time?

21                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Well, 

22           again, I wouldn't call them problems, I'd 

23           call them challenges.  And I think there's a 

24           recognition and an understanding that those 


                                                                   387

 1           challenges are out there and we're going to 

 2           work on it.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  I call them 

 4           problems.  Okay, thank you.  

 5                  Senator Comrie.

 6                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Good afternoon, 

 7           gentlemen.  I'll start with Commissioner 

 8           Schroeder.  

 9                  I appreciate everything that you're 

10           doing with DMV.  And I wanted to find out 

11           specifically regarding the issues of the 

12           Tollpayer Protection Act and how our citizens 

13           that are caught because they have extensive 

14           fines because they were not able to pay their 

15           bill or did not realize that their credit 

16           cards were no longer picking up the bill, how 

17           they can have more accessibility to try to 

18           get these issues resolved without dealing 

19           with excessive fines and fees.  

20                  I know folks have been battling back 

21           and forth about how this should be resolved, 

22           and I understand there's only one person for 

23           a region to try to resolve these complaints.  

24           Is that true?


                                                                   388

 1                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  So, 

 2           Senator, you're referring to the DLSR, the 

 3           driver license suspension form that all of 

 4           you implemented?  And we have cleared 

 5           3.2 million New Yorkers so that they can 

 6           start going forward.  And so their license is 

 7           no longer, you know, suspended so that they 

 8           can go forward.  Is that what you're 

 9           referring to?  Or are you referring to tolls?  

10                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Tolls, primarily.  

11           And also there's a secondary issue, so that 

12           people can be able to continue to work or not 

13           lose their job because they are not able to 

14           get their licenses from the state.  

15                  Primarily tolls.  You know, we have a 

16           lot of constituents in all of our areas now 

17           that wind up with thousands of dollars in 

18           fines that they did not realize because there 

19           was a gap between the bills or they didn't 

20           see the weekly bill or the monthly bill 

21           showing that they missed payment, because 

22           their payment systems were changed and they 

23           didn't realize it.

24                  So we have a lot of constituents that 


                                                                   389

 1           are struggling to try to keep up or to have 

 2           some resolution because they're not getting 

 3           any opportunity to have a real discussion 

 4           with someone to get a resolution.

 5                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  

 6           So -- so thank you, Senator.

 7                  We, DMV, we are supporting the 

 8           Governor's vision by continuing to work with 

 9           our tolling authority partners to crack down 

10           on motorists with defaced, obscured plates 

11           and to suspend the registration of vehicles 

12           that rack up unpaid tolls.  

13                  So we -- this is something that has 

14           been reoccurring all day, starting with MTA, 

15           Thruway Authority, DOT.  This is something 

16           for all of us to have to try to figure out.  

17           And so we will continue to be a partner in 

18           that.  And quite frankly, as you know, since 

19           the implementation of cashless tolls this has 

20           become problematic more and more.  And so 

21           with more than 5 percent of plates going 

22           unread, accounting for hundreds of millions 

23           of dollars -- which is concerning to I know 

24           this Legislature and to the agencies involved 


                                                                   390

 1           in transportation -- we together need to 

 2           figure out how to do better.  And DMV is 

 3           committed to being helpful.

 4                  SENATOR COMRIE:  I'm separating the 

 5           scofflaws, because most of the people that 

 6           are hiding their plates or doing, as was said 

 7           earlier, James Bond-type tactics with their 

 8           plates, those are the people that have to be 

 9           prosecuted.  

10                  But we have a lot of constituents that 

11           because of technical issues or payment 

12           issues, they didn't pay for a month.  They 

13           have their plates.  It's not an issue of them 

14           not being able to see the plate or being  a 

15           deliberate scofflaw.  They've never been a 

16           scofflaw in the system before, but they wind 

17           up with thousands of dollars in fines and 

18           fees.  

19                  I would hope that we could triple the 

20           size of the integral folks that are working 

21           to try to resolve these matters, so that they 

22           can separate out the determined scofflaws 

23           from the folks that are just caught in the 

24           system.  And I would hope that we increase 


                                                                   391

 1           the size of that agency, or combine agencies 

 2           to make sure we have more responsiveness to 

 3           that area.  

 4                  It's unfortunate that my office has to 

 5           call 15 times or send 20 emails to try to get 

 6           legitimate people resolved.

 7                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  

 8           So, Senator, I understand exactly what you're 

 9           saying.  There are bad guys out there doing 

10           things that we have to figure out a way to 

11           prevent.  

12                  But what you're talking about are good 

13           constituents and good customers, and they get 

14           themselves in a situation.  And when they 

15           call us, we do not do this (pointing in 

16           different directions).  We will do our best 

17           to help the customer and we will try to 

18           figure out what pathway for them to go down 

19           so that they can avoid any suspension 

20           whatsoever.

21                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.

22                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  You're 

23           welcome.

24                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And just the next 


                                                                   392

 1           question.  We've done a very successful 

 2           program.  We're creating opportunities for 

 3           small businesses to act as mini-DMV 

 4           facilities.  They have a few of them now that 

 5           are all over the city.  Can you tell us how 

 6           effective that program has been?  

 7                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  What 

 8           program, Senator, are you speaking of?

 9                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Where you're allowing 

10           small businesses to act as DMV, the way you 

11           can go to -- instead of going to the big 

12           offices, go to the little businesses that are 

13           set up to handle plates and re-registration.

14                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yup.  

15           Yeah.  Thank you.

16                  So what we're trying to do -- and in 

17           the testimony I talked about how DMV is 

18           trying to reach people where they are.  So we 

19           have our offices, our brick and mortar, in 

20           Queens.  We have, you know, 12 offices 

21           altogether in New York City.  And we have 

22           seven offices in Long Island/Westchester.  

23           But we also have relationships with auto 

24           dealers, like over 300 auto dollars across 


                                                                   393

 1           the state.  And so when you go in to buy a 

 2           new car, you are able to get everything that 

 3           you would -- that you used to have to go to 

 4           DMV, you can do it at the auto dealer.  

 5                  The same thing that I'm so proud of I 

 6           mentioned in my testimony with the 43 prisons 

 7           across New York State, we are giving people 

 8           who are there, incarcerated, an opportunity 

 9           to get a license so they don't -- or if they 

10           get a non-driver I.D. so that they don't have 

11           to go to a brick-and-mortar place.  

12                  So we're going to continue, Senator, 

13           to do that to make it easier for your 

14           constituents and for New Yorkers overall.

15                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.

16                  A question for Executive Director 

17           Hoare.  Have you been able to look at the 

18           contract for Greenway to see if there's any 

19           way to have them ameliorate stations that 

20           need to have -- need to be larger?  Because a 

21           lot of these stations do not have the proper 

22           capacity to deal with especially weekend 

23           travel.

24                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Senator, 


                                                                   394

 1           you mean the service areas?  

 2                  SENATOR COMRIE:  The service areas.

 3                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  The 

 4           service areas -- there are three sizes for 

 5           service areas.  And those three sizes were 

 6           determined based on, again, data as far as -- 

 7                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Right.  But as you 

 8           look at what's happening in those service 

 9           areas, it's clear that they're overcrowded 

10           and they don't have enough capacity, 

11           especially in the stalls, the bathroom stalls 

12           in those areas, depending on the size, 

13           there's only four in places where there used 

14           to be 12, and there's only six in places 

15           where there used to be 18.  

16                  So will those adjustments be analyzed 

17           and assessed?  And as I've asked you before, 

18           can the contract with Apple -- Apple -- 

19           Applegreen, or whatever they're calling 

20           themselves, you know, be amended to ensure 

21           that those adjustments can be made so we can 

22           have faster flow in these rest stops?

23                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Well, 

24           Senator, we're seeing faster flow and less 


                                                                   395

 1           crowding as each one opens up.  It's like 

 2           relieving the pressure on a valve.  The -- we 

 3           had initial complaints and concerns about 

 4           overcrowding when there were only three or 

 5           four open.  We're now up to 13, soon to be 

 6           16.  And we're seeing less and less crowding.  

 7                  But if we went back at this point 

 8           where 13 are already completed, another 10 

 9           are under construction as we -- already under 

10           construction as we speak, if we stopped it 

11           right now we'd be talking about a minimal 

12           amount out of the 27.  And it would be a 

13           great expense to go back and get them to 

14           change those plans.

15                  SENATOR COMRIE:  I would argue that it 

16           would give us actually more revenue if we had 

17           a faster and more compliant area to make sure 

18           that people could be able to not be crowded 

19           as they're moving between the vendors and the 

20           rest stops.  So I think there would be a real 

21           opportunity to try to make sure that the 

22           customer is taken care of in a way that they 

23           would want to come through and not just go 

24           through every rest stop, but wait 20 minutes 


                                                                   396

 1           to use the bathroom.

 2                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Senator, 

 3           that is our focus, safety and comfort for our 

 4           traveling public, and we will continue to 

 5           focus on that.  

 6                  I think I can add to that.  I'd be 

 7           happy to look at it and have a discussion.

 8                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.

 9                  And also in 2021 the vendor complaint, 

10           did that get resolved yet, the blind vendors?

11                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  That was 

12           resolved with an agreement last April between 

13           the commission and the operator of the 

14           service areas.  They will have access to more 

15           of the vending machines.

16                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Are you exploring 

17           hydrogen fuel cell stations at the rest stops 

18           as well?  Because that is the new technology 

19           that's coming on board.

20                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  That is 

21           not a technology I'm specifically familiar 

22           with.  

23                  We are constantly looking at 

24           technology and upgrading to make sure that, 


                                                                   397

 1           again, we serve our patrons and do it in a 

 2           responsible and environmentally friendly way.

 3                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.

 4                  And are the EVs going to have 

 5           canopies, the EV stations are going to have 

 6           canopies?  Or are they going to be open to 

 7           the weather?

 8                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  I'm 

 9           sorry, sir, I didn't --

10                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Right now the gas 

11           stations have canopies so that if it rains, 

12           you're not -- are the EV stations going to 

13           have canopies?

14                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  The 

15           service areas at the -- those gas stations 

16           have canopies.

17                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.  

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

19           Thank you.  

20                  All right.  Chair Ken Zebrowski for 

21           10.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Thanks, 

23           Mr. Magnarelli.

24                  Good evening, colleagues.  Good to see 


                                                                   398

 1           two former Assembly alumni here.

 2                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

 3           you.

 4                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Thank 

 5           you.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  No offense to 

 7           you, Commissioner Schroeder, but my committee 

 8           really oversees the authority, so I'll start 

 9           with him.  If I have any time, I'll ask you a 

10           couple of questions.

11                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  That 

12           makes sense.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Director 

14           Hoare, thanks for -- you really covered a lot 

15           in your summary.  So I'm going to go through 

16           a few things where I saw some -- maybe some 

17           gaps that I have some questions about.

18                  You talked a lot about the capital 

19           plan and some of the projects.  I didn't hear 

20           anything specifically about like the pavement 

21           conditions on the Thruway, like where is that 

22           type of stuff in the capital plan, how do you 

23           generally plan that, what do you currently 

24           look at in terms of those conditions?


                                                                   399

 1                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Again, 

 2           it's -- we look at data that's based on state 

 3           and federal regulations.  We assess the 

 4           entire system -- again, it's 2800 miles of 

 5           roadway in both directions, the lanes.  So in 

 6           terms of what our priorities are and how we 

 7           address a particular project in 2024 versus 

 8           2025 or '26 is based on those needs.  So that 

 9           we get to where we need to get.

10                  But I assure you that as it currently 

11           sits, the Thruway from your district to the 

12           Pennsylvania line is safe and reliable.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  We heard a lot 

14           about tolling.  I think mentioned -- we had 

15           the MTA earlier, a lot of folks hear from 

16           constituents.  Your office and my office have 

17           worked on specific constituent matters, and I 

18           appreciate the thoroughness by which your 

19           staff attempts to answer our questions and 

20           work through these matters.

21                  I didn't hear you today kind of go 

22           through some of the changes you've made, 

23           which I think are helpful for folks to know, 

24           in that the tolling and the fine program, if 


                                                                   400

 1           I understand it correctly, as complaints have 

 2           been levied, you've made significant changes 

 3           in how those fines are levied. 

 4                  Could you kind of go through that for 

 5           us?

 6                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Sure.  I 

 7           mean, it's also important to recognize that 

 8           in the last three years we've had 1.2 billion 

 9           transactions on the system.  So where there 

10           have been problems or issues, we address it 

11           aggressively and we want to make sure that 

12           our patrons, our customers are taken care of.

13                  In terms of we have -- at least 

14           whether or not we assess those fines, we 

15           lowered the initial set of fines from -- to a 

16           maximum of $50 a bill, so a maximum of $600 a 

17           year.  In previous years the policies and 

18           regulations called for fines and penalties 

19           based on each trip, so you saw huge numbers, 

20           you know, come out for some folks.

21                  But we've lowered that.  We have an 

22           office, created an office, my predecessor 

23           created an office that's dedicated to toll 

24           revenue and quality management of that 


                                                                   401

 1           system.  We are constantly in touch.  We have 

 2           a tollpayer advocate that in the last two 

 3           years has talked to over 7,000 folks in an 

 4           effort to resolve their issues.  And we're in 

 5           constant touch with people in an effort to 

 6           resolve their bills.

 7                  So we're working hard to balance the 

 8           fairness to those who pay the tolls with 

 9           fairness to those who may need some help.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Thank you.  I 

11           think we do all have these stories of 

12           constituents in our office with, you know, 

13           eye-popping tolls and fines and fees.

14                  So with those changes, like you said, 

15           now it could be a maximum of $600 a year -- 

16           not that anyone would be happy with $600, but 

17           theoretically that would be not paying the 

18           $50 every month for the 12 months.  

19           Theoretically, that should result in there 

20           not being these multi-thousand-dollar bills, 

21           correct?

22                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  It 

23           should.

24                  And again, 96 percent of our 


                                                                   402

 1           tollpayers pay their tolls.  That 4 percent 

 2           is largely comprised of out-of-state 

 3           commercial vehicles.  And that's a problem.  

 4           It's a problem not only for us, it's a 

 5           nationwide problem.  We're part of an 

 6           international tolling association, and that's 

 7           what we, I and my staff, hear from our 

 8           counterparts in every other state on the 

 9           attempt to collect.  

10                  And again, it's mostly on, you know, 

11           commercial vehicles who are intentionally 

12           doing it.  And our biggest numbers come from 

13           Connecticut and New Jersey, who we don't have 

14           a reciprocal agreement with.  Connecticut 

15           won't enter into a reciprocal agreement 

16           because they don't charge tolls, so they want 

17           to do it for their residents, and New Jersey 

18           can only do it by legislation, and that's 

19           been bogged down over the last couple of 

20           years.  

21                  So our partner at Port has been 

22           leading that in an effort, but so far they 

23           have not instituted a reciprocal program.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  With the 


                                                                   403

 1           cashless tolling, have you done an 

 2           analysis -- obviously, cashless tolling does 

 3           two things.  One is sort of efficiency and 

 4           helps with traffic.  That's probably the 

 5           biggest, you know, benefit to it.

 6                  But have you done an analysis of just 

 7           the financial aspects of it?  You obviously 

 8           save money by not having the infrastructure 

 9           and the people working there.  But obviously 

10           it seems to lead to more scofflaws, if you 

11           will.  You know, you mentioned the 

12           out-of-state truck drivers.  So have you done 

13           an analysis of that?

14                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  We've 

15           looked at that.  It wasn't done to save 

16           money, it was done for the safety and 

17           convenience of our patrons.  And it was done 

18           to help the environment, which we've seen 

19           direct results on that.  

20                  So we still have expenses with the 

21           cashless tolling.  Those expenses will be 

22           there.  So because those booths and the 

23           people in them went away doesn't mean that 

24           the expenses went away.  We still have -- it 


                                                                   404

 1           still costs money to process transactions, to 

 2           send out bills, to work with our customers.

 3                  Again, we're up to about 86 percent of 

 4           New Yorkers having an E-ZPass.  We're 

 5           constantly pushing that because that -- 

 6           having an E-ZPass not only eliminates 

 7           problems or reduces the risk of problems, it 

 8           also reduces your bill.  So we're working 

 9           hard to get to that system where more folks 

10           have E-ZPass.

11                  On the other hand, for those that 

12           don't want an E-ZPass, we've worked hard with 

13           them to provide easy ability to pay that by 

14           cash or credit card.  We have over 4,000 

15           retail vendors across the state that you can 

16           walk in and, again, pay your bill or refresh 

17           your card, your account, with a credit card 

18           or with cash. 

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  To that point, 

20           you had closed some over the years, right?  

21           Do you have more now than you had, say, four 

22           or five years ago of those locations?  I know 

23           in Rockland in particular at one point it was 

24           closed.  Are you utilizing the county clerks 


                                                                   405

 1           still?  Not the DMV county clerks, but other 

 2           county clerks to serve as E-ZPass stations?  

 3           You know, what do you look at when you look 

 4           at statewide to try to make sure that 

 5           everybody has a place that they can go to 

 6           that's in a reasonable driving distance?

 7                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Well, 

 8           we're looking at gas stations, we're looking 

 9           at Dollar General, we're looking at 

10           Walgreens, Walmart, that sort of thing.  

11           So --

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  Is there an 

13           interactive map people can go on?  If they go 

14           onto your website, can they like put in their 

15           zip code and see where a place is?

16                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Yes.  

17           They can map and they get that information.  

18           And there's customer service numbers if they 

19           had a question of where to go on that.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  All right.  

21           Lastly, because I don't want to go over my 

22           time, let's talk about the Mario Cuomo 

23           Bridge.  The toll was increased 50 cents 

24           annually starting in 2024 and ending in 2027.  


                                                                   406

 1           Could you kind of talk about your overall 

 2           financial picture with that bridge, the debt 

 3           service, the maintenance costs, what do you 

 4           see that 50 percent increase -- how is it 

 5           going to help you pay for that?  And are you 

 6           already projecting what might be necessary 

 7           after 2027?

 8                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  I'll 

 9           take the latter first.  We've projected -- 

10           the increases that went into effect on 

11           January 1st were based on projecting out for 

12           eight to 10 years.  

13                  We're seeing -- again, that money, 

14           those increases, as I said earlier, are 

15           rolled right back into -- it's allowed us to 

16           spend between $90 million and $100 million 

17           more in capital programs.  You'll see that in 

18           Rockland and Orange, you'll see that in 

19           Westchester.  

20                  So the bridge costs money to maintain 

21           and operate.  And there's yearly -- biannual 

22           requirements by the federal government to 

23           inspect every bridge in the state.  So just 

24           on the Cuomo Bridge, one span is inspected 


                                                                   407

 1           every two years.  So every year we're going 

 2           through an inspection.  That costs money.  

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  How much debt 

 4           is remaining on that bridge, do you know?

 5                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Our 

 6           current debt service is $3.6 million -- I'm 

 7           sorry, $364 million, which is a 2.5 percent 

 8           increase in -- from last year.  Again, 

 9           reflective of general economic conditions.  

10                  I don't happen to know specifically 

11           related to the bridge.  We can get that to 

12           you.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI:  My time has 

14           expired.  Thank you.

15                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  You're 

16           welcome.  

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

18           much.  

19                  Next we have Senator Mattera, ranker, 

20           for five minutes.  

21                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Great.  And thank 

22           you, Chair.  

23                  And this question will be for -- and 

24           thank you both for coming here today.  This 


                                                                   408

 1           is for our Commissioner Schroeder.  

 2                  The question is since the legalization 

 3           of cannabis it is not uncommon to see and 

 4           smell cannabis being used as people are 

 5           driving around.  Last year when you were 

 6           here, we were told that the DMV was taking 

 7           steps, in conjunction with law enforcement, 

 8           to address drugged driving.  Yet it's still 

 9           common to encounter drivers using cannabis 

10           while driving.  What additional steps has the 

11           DMV taken to address this drugged driving?

12                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Senator, 

13           thank you for your question.  And I do recall 

14           talking to you about this last year.

15                  And the fact is this is, as you know, 

16           a very serious matter; 44 percent of fatal 

17           crashes in New York State are alcohol- or 

18           drug-related.  And so we continue -- and I'm 

19           also the chair of the Governor's Traffic 

20           Safety Committee.  As chair, I have a 

21           relationship and we have a relationship with 

22           all law enforcement across New York State.

23                  Also, we administer the program -- the 

24           drug recognition experts.  We have nearly 500 


                                                                   409

 1           of them that we have trained.  It is intense, 

 2           Senator.  I know you know it's an intense 

 3           training for our officers across the state.  

 4           I liken it to taking three parts of a CPA 

 5           exam or sitting for the bar.

 6                  And so we are very happy to have men 

 7           and women across New York State who are 

 8           officers who are our DRE experts.  We also 

 9           have what is called an ARIDE program.  This 

10           is training that we've been able to do with 

11           over 800 officers across the state.  

12                  So I understand your question.  We 

13           continue to work with law enforcement and the 

14           Governor's Traffic Safety Committee to make 

15           sure we're doing the best we can to keep our 

16           streets and our highways safe.

17                  SENATOR MATTERA:  So when do you think 

18           we would have an answer that this is going to 

19           be enforced, enforceable?  And if anybody was 

20           to be arrested, is this -- well, you probably 

21           have nothing to do with the cashless bail 

22           situation.  

23                  But my question again is, when do you 

24           think that this will be coming, moving 


                                                                   410

 1           forward?  Do you have any idea?  Is it going 

 2           to be a year from now, two years from now, 

 3           three years from now?  This needs to be done 

 4           like yesterday.

 5                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  

 6           So, Senator, just restate exactly what you're 

 7           asking me.  Because our involvement in GTSC 

 8           and DMV is to -- many things.  To work with 

 9           law enforcement across the state in terms of 

10           impaired driving.  To me, it doesn't matter 

11           if it's drinking or drugs.  It's bad, it's 

12           impaired, and we need to do something about 

13           it.  And the best thing that we can do is 

14           part of the training program, and that's what 

15           DMV and GTSC does.

16                  Is there something in particular that 

17           you're asking me to answer?  

18                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Well, again, I just 

19           want to see if there's a time frame.  That's 

20           my -- I understand we're working on it, but 

21           last year -- I mean, I know you're being 

22           aggressive.  This needs to be done, again, 

23           like yesterday.  This is out of control.  

24           We're all driving home, going down the 


                                                                   411

 1           Thruways, our roadways, all over the place, 

 2           and that's all you do is you smell it.  I 

 3           smell it on -- going across our bridges.  It 

 4           is -- it's just out of control.  

 5                  Everybody knows how I feel about this 

 6           cannabis law.  It's a total disaster.  And 

 7           this is something that really needs to be 

 8           fixed because we have, you know, reasons why 

 9           we have our law enforcement to do their jobs, 

10           and they can't even do their jobs.  And we 

11           put cannabis laws into effect, and it was 

12           just something that I'm very upset about.  I 

13           go to tree-lighting ceremonies, and you smell 

14           it all over the place.  But the roadways are 

15           infested with cannabis drivers.  It needs to 

16           be focused on -- this is something that needs 

17           to be a top priority with the DMV and with 

18           all the law enforcement.

19                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Senator, 

20           I agree.  And it's a top priority for us, and 

21           we'll continue to do our best.

22                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Please.  I would 

23           appreciate it.  So would all New Yorkers 

24           also.  


                                                                   412

 1                  So this is actually a question for 

 2           Acting Executive Director Hoare.  I would 

 3           appreciate -- you know, I'm going up the 

 4           Thruway, which I appreciate the Thruway.  

 5           Thank you so much for the work that both you 

 6           gentlemen are doing.  But, you know, being in 

 7           construction, I'm seeing in these new -- in 

 8           the new stop -- you know, the rest areas.  

 9           And I was just wondering about the Thruway 

10           Authority didn't require the contract to 

11           install EV charging stations at some of our 

12           plazas.  And, you know, they're finished.  

13                  Why wouldn't we do that as we're doing 

14           the construction, as somebody that's in 

15           construction?  

16                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Well, 

17           they are part of the construction.  

18           They're -- the buildings themselves and the 

19           footprint are being addressed first.  Again, 

20           I think we talked about some of the -- it 

21           takes a little longer because there's 

22           permitting issues involved, there's issues 

23           with -- or discussions with the utilities 

24           that make -- that take a little longer.  So 


                                                                   413

 1           they're opening up, and then there's a lag.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 3           Director.  

 4                  SENATOR MATTERA:  Thank you.  

 5                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Thank 

 6           you.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Next we're 

 8           going to call upon our Ranking Member Ra.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you, Chair.  

10                  Commissioner, Acting Director, good to 

11           see you guys again.

12                  Commissioner Schroeder, I have a 

13           question but I do want to, you know, echo 

14           what you said at the end.  I really think 

15           you've done a tremendous job of taking 

16           something that for generations had this, you 

17           know, public perception of being tedious at 

18           best to visit a location.  

19                  And I certainly, in my personal 

20           experience, I've done all kinds of 

21           transactions.  We have that new location in 

22           my district, and it's been smooth and, like 

23           was said, in and out in 15 minutes.  And I've 

24           been very happy.


                                                                   414

 1                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

 2           you.  Thank you.  

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  So kudos to you and 

 4           your entire staff for the work that you've 

 5           done.  

 6                  I wanted to ask about -- I know the 

 7           Legislature has taken some actions fairly 

 8           recently to try to be another avenue to 

 9           curtail catalytic converter theft, and I'm 

10           just wondering how enforcement's going in 

11           terms of those new requirements that are out 

12           there with keeping track of these parts and 

13           certainly how the partnership with 

14           law enforcement is with regard to that.

15                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  

16           Thank you, Assemblymember.  And I credit the 

17           Governor for really being strong on this.  

18           She initiated an Auto Theft Safety Program.  

19                  But DMV, quite frankly, we got started 

20           on this early because we were aware of it.  

21           We were aware of it because of our contacts.  

22           Through GTSC we have law enforcement 

23           contacts.  And in New York City we kind of 

24           got a heads-up on this and we began to do the 


                                                                   415

 1           best we can.  And then the Governor initiated 

 2           the law that the Legislature went through.  

 3                  So, so far it is something that is 

 4           working.  We want to make sure that the most 

 5           innocent, like our seniors, when they get up 

 6           in the morning, they go out to their car and 

 7           the catalytic converter is gone because the 

 8           bad guys want to cash in on it, that is 

 9           unacceptable to us.  It's unacceptable to the 

10           Legislature.  And we will continue to work 

11           with especially the auto dealers across 

12           New York State to make sure that the law 

13           written by -- every word written in that law 

14           is adhered to.

15                  And we have a relationship with all of 

16           the six {sic} auto dealers across New York 

17           State.  We will continue to work with them on 

18           that issue.  So -- and thank you.  

19                  And the nice things you said about the 

20           DMV, I will extend that to my colleagues back 

21           in the DMV.  Thank you.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Please do.  

23                  And as you may know, shortly before we 

24           passed that law on the state level, 


                                                                   416

 1           Nassau County did something similar requiring 

 2           registration.  And, you know, as you know, 

 3           this is all about hopefully curtailing that 

 4           market as one of, you know, the many things 

 5           we need to be doing.  Because it's -- it 

 6           really is a tremendous problem.  

 7                  As you said, you have somebody, 

 8           especially somebody on a fixed income, and 

 9           they wake up and a part that expensive is 

10           suddenly missing from their vehicle, it 

11           really is a -- and frankly I think there's 

12           also, right, when somebody's impacted by a 

13           crime that somebody went into their own 

14           driveway or in front of their house and 

15           committed a crime, I think that just, you 

16           know, shakes the public safety of a 

17           community.

18                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Agreed.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  So thank you.  Thank 

20           you for your work.

21                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  You're 

22           welcome.  Thank you.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Acting Director, 

24           just -- Mr. Zebrowski did start to get into 


                                                                   417

 1           this with regard to cashless tolling.  And I 

 2           know we've curtailed some of those problems 

 3           we had early on.  But, you know, where are we 

 4           at this point?  Do we feel it's working the 

 5           way it was supposed to work?  And has any, 

 6           you know, savings been realized by the agency 

 7           as a result of this now being fully rolled 

 8           out?

 9                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Yes, I 

10           think it's working.  We have 1.2 billion 

11           transactions over the last three years.  With 

12           some issues that have come up, we've been 

13           addressing them.  Again, the point wasn't to 

14           save money, the point was to modernize for 

15           the purposes of giving greater safety and 

16           convenience to our customers and patrons.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Okay.  Thank you.  

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  Next 

19           we have Senator Tom O'Mara, ranker. 

20                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you, Senator.

21                  Good afternoon, gentlemen.  Thank you 

22           for being here.

23                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Good 

24           afternoon, Senator.


                                                                   418

 1                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Commissioner, first 

 2           and foremost, thank you for opening the 

 3           office on the concourse.  Very convenient.  

 4           I've actually used it a couple of times 

 5           already, so it's nice to have it there.  

 6                  With regards to electric vehicles -- 

 7           and obviously we're getting more and more of 

 8           them, and we're going to have this transition 

 9           to electric buses all over the place.  Are 

10           there any changes coming, in the works, for 

11           vehicle safety inspections that will be 

12           different for EVs as opposed to regular 

13           combustion engines?  

14                  Obviously you're not going to have the 

15           emissions requirement.  But are there going 

16           to be any safety inspections with regards to 

17           the batteries?  Because there's a really big 

18           concern out there about the safety and the 

19           fires that we've seen with these batteries.  

20           And is there going to be an inspection of 

21           these batteries for that type of safety 

22           concern?  

23                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Senator, 

24           thank you for the question.  And quite 


                                                                   419

 1           frankly, what -- DMV and our inspection 

 2           stations have been very aware, obviously, of 

 3           the electric vehicle.  And so our folks at 

 4           DMV have been trained in terms of what to 

 5           look for and what's most important.  

 6                  So we continue to do that and will do 

 7           that as EVs progress in terms of more being 

 8           sold.

 9                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Is there a particular 

10           criteria or checklist that the inspectors go 

11           through?  With regards to the batteries and, 

12           you know, them combusting.  

13                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah, 

14           there is.  I went to a seminar that was 

15           conducted by DMV, and all of our inspectors 

16           were there.  And so there is quite a full 

17           informational section that they go through.  

18           I don't -- I don't know exactly what it all 

19           is, but I do know that we go through it.  And 

20           I'd be happy to share it with you as well.

21                  Also, Senator, you'd be interested in 

22           this.  We are working also with 11 SUNY 

23           colleges, mostly in upstate, and these SUNY 

24           colleges have an automotive mechanic program.  


                                                                   420

 1           And so we at DMV, we help in training the 

 2           trainer for everything that needs to be 

 3           recognized in terms of being, you know, 

 4           equipped to service EVs.  So we will continue 

 5           that as well.

 6                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you.

 7                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  You're 

 8           welcome.

 9                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you.  Executive 

10           Director, on the Thruway a couple of issues 

11           that have been -- that I've been looking at.  

12           One, a 70-mile-an-hour speed limit on the 

13           Thruway, do you have a position on that?  

14                  It's come up around other states.  

15           Maybe get a little more -- smaller range of 

16           speeds on the Thruway?  Because there's, you 

17           know, a lot of vehicles going faster than 65, 

18           and that speed differential is what is the 

19           cause of many, many accidents.  

20                  So not just -- you know, obviously I'm 

21           interested in raising it to 70, with vehicle 

22           safety that we have these days.  But the 

23           minimum speed has to be enforced too, I 

24           think, to avoid those things.


                                                                   421

 1                  Also, the other issue is the exit 

 2           signs, an effort to change the exit sign to 

 3           the mile marker like many states do, so you 

 4           actually know that if you're going to -- 

 5           you're at Exit 60 and you're going to Exit 

 6           120, you're 60 miles away.  Not if you're 

 7           going from Exit 18 to Exit 19, it could be 

 8           three or it could be 15 miles, you don't 

 9           know.  

10                  So those two issues, any thoughts on 

11           those?  

12                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  I do not 

13           have a position on increasing the speed 

14           limit.  That's a discussion I'll leave to the 

15           Legislature and the Governor.

16                  In regards to the mile markers, we 

17           have looked at -- we are looking at that.  

18           It's complicated because of the fact that in 

19           our system we go from -- once you hit Albany, 

20           87 continues to work up to the Adirondacks 

21           and the Northway.  So there are issues with 

22           that.  We've had some discussions with 

23           Federal Highways.  They would also be 

24           involved in that.


                                                                   422

 1                  SENATOR O'MARA:  I think they have a 

 2           preference towards that.  I think -- I've 

 3           read that the Federal Highway Traffic Safety 

 4           has a preference for the mile marker exit 

 5           numbers.

 6                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  They 

 7           have not expressed that to me.

 8                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Okay.  Thank you.

 9                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Thank 

10           you.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

12                  Assembly.  

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Is Member 

14           Simone here?  (Off the record.)  Okay, he 

15           left.  

16                  Member Shimsky?  

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Thank you.  

18                  And to Commissioner Schroeder, 

19           everything everybody said is true.  I used to 

20           work for the state 15 years ago.  We never 

21           see complaints anymore, which is really 

22           exciting.

23                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

24           you.


                                                                   423

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  I just have 

 2           two quick rookie questions.  

 3                  As part of your metrics, do you keep 

 4           track of average wait times?

 5                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yes, we 

 6           do, Assemblymember.  We do, and it is 

 7           decreasing.  And so it's now under 

 8           15 minutes.  And with the ability for us to 

 9           continue with transactions online, that also 

10           gives people just a particular reason to why 

11           they would go into a DMV.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Do you break 

13           it down in terms of location and type of 

14           transaction as well?

15                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  We do.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Okay, great.

17                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Not only 

18           do we do it for the 27 district offices that 

19           we run, DMV, but we also have that data for 

20           the 51 county clerks in upstate, and we know 

21           what their record of accomplishment is, and 

22           they're doing a very good job as well.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Okay.  And 

24           with the federal waiver on the commercial 


                                                                   424

 1           driver's road test, what are we eliminating, 

 2           and are we sure it's not a problem 

 3           eliminating it?

 4                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  So 

 5           at the Governor's urging of the federal 

 6           government, it is what is called "under the 

 7           hood."  

 8                  So when a bus driver is taking a test, 

 9           the bus driver doesn't ever pull up the hood.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Gotcha.

11                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  So that 

12           is being eliminated in the test.

13                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Okay, great.  

14           Thank you.

15                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  It's not 

16           eliminated -- the Governor and the DMV has 

17           asked for a waiver.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Okay, great.

19                  And now to Director Hoare.  First of 

20           all, I've been getting complaints about the 

21           condition of the bike and pedestrian path on 

22           the Cuomo Bridge.  Just putting it out there 

23           for you.

24                  The second thing I have on this is, 


                                                                   425

 1           you know, user fees for a road, it's called.  

 2           The old turnpike system has quite the 

 3           history.  There may be places where it's not 

 4           quite as appropriate as it used to be.  Do 

 5           you see yourself seeking more, for example, 

 6           federal funding and that to supplement your 

 7           purse in the long run?

 8                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  We have 

 9           not -- never received any federal funds.  We 

10           are, as you point out, a user fee system.  We 

11           rely on those tolls to operate the Thruway.  

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Well, as I 

13           said, things -- things change.  And it's like 

14           property taxes are a hard way to fund a 

15           school in the local government now.  I 

16           suspect that this is true with this.  

17                  But you did say you did get some 

18           federal funding for some limited projects 

19           this year.

20                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  We were 

21           very fortunate for the first time in our 

22           history to get three federal grants.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Keep it up.  

24                  Thank you.


                                                                   426

 1                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Thank 

 2           you.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 5                  I think last for the Senate, 

 6           Senator Roxanne Persaud.

 7                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Thank you.  

 8                  Thank you, Commissioner.  And thank 

 9           you, Executive Director.

10                  Commissioner, it's great always seeing 

11           you.  And I'm looking forward to us having 

12           the conversation in reference to legislation 

13           I've been putting forward about -- 

14           commonsense legislation about stops on the 

15           road, things people need to know.  And I'm 

16           really looking forward to us doing that so 

17           that we can make our road stops safer.  

18                  I want to ask you about the DMV mobile 

19           offices.  Some county clerks have them.  Is 

20           there a way for the state to have some mobile 

21           offices?  And how does a community get a 

22           mobile office?  

23                  And then also the -- there was a 

24           question someone asked us about the DMV, the 


                                                                   427

 1           data that you're collecting.  Are you sharing 

 2           that data with anyone?  Other than, you know, 

 3           the government office.

 4                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  So the 

 5           mobile office, I was part of the celebration 

 6           of Orange County when the county clerk in 

 7           Orange County, she actually went after and 

 8           received a grant to underwrite that expense.  

 9                  So at DMV that would be a very costly 

10           thing to do, because there's 62 counties.  So 

11           we encourage counties who are able to do that 

12           to do that.

13                  But meanwhile, Senator, you know what 

14           we're trying to do, is we're reaching out to 

15           your constituents where they are.  And that 

16           is one of the reasons why we're proud to have 

17           77 transactions that your constituents can do 

18           online so that they don't have to go into an 

19           office.

20                  And could you just repeat what -- the 

21           last question?  

22                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  The data, the 

23           collection of data.  Are you sharing that 

24           data with anyone outside of the --


                                                                   428

 1                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  So 

 2           the answer, the short answer is -- is yes.  

 3           And the reason why we do -- and I'll be very 

 4           clear on what we share.  Public Officer Law 

 5           requires these records to be open and 

 6           available.  But we are very particular when 

 7           DMV shares any of this information.  

 8                  So when -- we sell data for very 

 9           specific purposes like vehicle warranty 

10           notifications and insurance ratings.  But all 

11           of the data sales sharing this information is 

12           monitored and it's within compliance of what 

13           the Legislature has set and the federal 

14           Driver Privacy Protection Act.

15                  And so any user that uses the 

16           information specifically that I told you that 

17           we sell, the user must attest to proper usage 

18           when accessing -- when assessing any system, 

19           and activity is monitored.  And DMV also 

20           audits that.

21                  SENATOR PERSAUD:  Thank you.  Thank 

22           you both.

23                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  You're 

24           welcome.


                                                                   429

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Okay.  Member 

 2           Palmesano.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Thank you.  

 4                  My question is for Commissioner 

 5           Schroeder.  

 6                  It's good to see you again.  I want to 

 7           commend you on the work DMV is doing to 

 8           really help and promote organ donation.  It's 

 9           an issue very near and dear to my heart.  

10           It's something we're really advocating for 

11           here in the state.  So I want to commend you 

12           for the work on that front.  

13                  And I like your lapel pin, too, by the 

14           way.  

15                  But my question for you, Commissioner, 

16           is we know that in -- it's kind of a spinoff 

17           of Senator O'Mara's question about electric 

18           vehicles.  We know that electric vehicles 

19           weigh 10 to 30 percent more, they're heavier 

20           than normal gas and diesel-powered vehicles.  

21           And weight of a vehicle takes its toll on the 

22           road.  For example, a Ford Lightning weighs 

23           6500 pounds and a Ford F150, 4700 pounds.

24                  Knowing that, and knowing the impact 


                                                                   430

 1           it has on the road, would the department be 

 2           willing to impose a higher registration fee 

 3           for EVs, since these types of vehicles do not 

 4           pay gas taxes?  And then the revenues from 

 5           such fees could be deposited in the Dedicated 

 6           Highway and Bridge Trust Fund in order to 

 7           offset annual costs associated with highway 

 8           and bridge maintenance.  

 9                  Shouldn't that be something that 

10           should be looked at?  Is that something 

11           you're looking into?  Could it be done?  

12                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  

13           So, Assemblymember, as you know, being a 

14           former member of the Assembly I would expect 

15           the Assembly and the Senate to come up with 

16           these types of ideas.  These would be 

17           legislative ideas, and then DMV would do 

18           everything that we could to make sure that we 

19           adhered to what the law is and what the 

20           intent is.  

21                  And so DMV and all of the units that I 

22           have, over 62 units, and I have deputy 

23           commissioners who are very adroit, very -- 

24           specialists in many things, we would be 


                                                                   431

 1           willing to look at anything and everything 

 2           that the Legislature sends over to us.  So 

 3           thank you for that.  

 4                  And thank you for the kind words on 

 5           Donate Life, and thank you for your 

 6           participation.  Wherever you or I go for 

 7           Donate Life, I see you.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Well, thank 

 9           you, I appreciate that.  It's a personal 

10           issue for me, so I appreciate your 

11           leadership.  

12                  On that front, too, I know you talked 

13           about the success the DMV has had with -- 

14           through the licenses and now the 

15           registrations.  And I kind of wanted to ask 

16           you, if I had time -- and I seem to do, it 

17           doesn't always work out that way -- but 

18           anything new or interesting or you're working 

19           on with the DMV to help partner with -- 

20           whether it's with local DMVs or any other 

21           agencies to help encourage or promote organ 

22           donations so we can continue to drive up 

23           those registration numbers to improve our 

24           status in the country?  


                                                                   432

 1                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  

 2           The answer is yes.  And I would be very happy 

 3           offline to share it with you.  But I'll just 

 4           give you some quick highlights.  

 5                  We have a comprehensive plan for 2024.  

 6           And the bottom line is I'm very aware that 

 7           Colorado has 62 percent of its residents who 

 8           are enrolled on a registry.  New York is way 

 9           low, they're like 47 percent.  And so we will 

10           do something, we are doing something about 

11           it.  We take it very seriously.  And we need 

12           all the help of the county clerks and our 

13           offices across New York State, and we're 

14           getting it.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Thank you, 

16           Commissioner.

17                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  You're 

18           welcome.  

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

20                  Member Bores.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Thank you for 

22           being here.

23                  Commissioner Schroeder, you mentioned 

24           in your testimony e-bikes.  The New York City 


                                                                   433

 1           mayor today announced a new city agency to 

 2           regulate commercial e-bikes.  Did he consult 

 3           with you or the GTSC before that?

 4                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah, so 

 5           in my testimony, Assemblymember, that's 

 6           exactly what I've said.  And so -- but as you 

 7           know --

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  I'm sorry, the 

 9           question is did the mayor consult with you 

10           before launching the new city agency today to 

11           regulate commercial e-bikes?

12                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  We work 

13           with the mayor's New York Vision team, and 

14           I've been working with them since I've been 

15           the commissioner.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  That doesn't quite 

17           answer the question.

18                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Okay, 

19           let's try to get --

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Did he consult you 

21           on the new city agency regulating commercial 

22           e-bikes?  Did he talk to you about that 

23           before today announcing it in the State of 

24           the City?


                                                                   434

 1                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah, 

 2           I -- the last time I've had a conversation 

 3           with the mayor is when he was in the 

 4           Legislature.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Got it, thank you.

 6                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Okay?  

 7           You're welcome.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  So you also 

 9           mentioned the traffic safety effort that 

10           you're undertaking, and specific attention 

11           was paid to pedestrians, bikes and 

12           micro-mobility.  Obviously the MV-104 doesn't 

13           have a way to differentiate between e-bikes 

14           and bikes or between mopeds and larger 

15           motorcycles.  So what data did you look at in 

16           doing that initiative?

17                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  

18           So -- so we are aware of what DMV can and 

19           cannot do.  So as you pointed out correctly, 

20           e-bikes and similar devices are not 

21           registered by New York State, where mopeds 

22           are.  And so we have a role there.  

23                  Our role in e-bikes is really to work 

24           with the other entities and the law 


                                                                   435

 1           enforcement and also with our partners, 

 2           especially in New York City.  And as the 

 3           chair of the Governor's Traffic Safety 

 4           Committee, I have been to New York City quite 

 5           a few times over the summer trying to put 

 6           together safety programs and also campaigns, 

 7           media campaigns --

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Sorry, just 

 9           because of limited time.  

10                  Specifically, the question is what 

11           data do you look at in terms of e-bike 

12           accidents or moped accidents, et cetera, 

13           since it's not tracked in the MV-104?

14                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  So we get 

15           information through the Governor's Traffic 

16           Safety Committee.  And that is the data that 

17           we look at.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Okay, wonderful.

19                  And then lastly, you actually have a 

20           tremendous record moving things online with 

21           the DMV.

22                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

23           you.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Most government IT 


                                                                   436

 1           modernization programs fail because they go 

 2           through the waterfall process and they're too 

 3           big and they're too large and they don't 

 4           involve any changes in process, and they 

 5           spend more in consultants than on coders.

 6                  What are you going to do differently 

 7           to make sure this succeeds?

 8                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah, my 

 9           compliments to you, because that's exactly 

10           right.  And DMV has failed over the course of 

11           time.  But we will not fail now because we 

12           are now embarking on a four-year plan of 

13           where we're implementing it.  And because of 

14           the Legislature and the Governor, you have 

15           put in the money to underwrite the 

16           transformation and the tech redesign.  We 

17           will not fail.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Thank you.

19                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  You're 

20           welcome.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Senate.  

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

23                  I'm just going to jump in even though 

24           I said the Senate was done, because my dear 


                                                                   437

 1           friend Alex Bores just triggered questions I 

 2           realized I must ask -- thank you.  

 3                  We overlap in districts, and we're 

 4           very concerned about the abuse by electronic 

 5           vehicles some of the time, but actually just 

 6           vehicles that are supposed to be licensed and 

 7           regulated by DMV -- mopeds that we know for a 

 8           fact that there are thousands and thousands 

 9           of these mopeds under state law having to be 

10           registered and state license plates and 

11           driver's licenses, and none of the above is 

12           happening.  And it's a real problem because 

13           they are violating the law seemingly with no 

14           penalties.  

15                  So I'd really love to know what we can 

16           do to work with you to make sure that the 

17           existing laws are followed as we continue to 

18           have a growing set of problems with them.

19                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah, 

20           thank you, Senator.

21                  And so many times we really rely on 

22           law enforcement for the law enforcement end 

23           of this.  And this is the reason why DMV and 

24           GTSC has spent so much time -- and I spent a 


                                                                   438

 1           lot of time in New York City this summer -- 

 2           trying to figure out a way to combat this.  

 3           And we will work with other entities, other 

 4           law enforcement agencies, the Legislature, 

 5           the City of New York, to figure out a way to 

 6           do better.  But we're a part of it.  

 7                  And we don't do this (gesturing in two 

 8           directions).  You know, we don't manage it 

 9           because e-bikes in particular, you know, 

10           aren't registered through New York State, but 

11           mopeds are.  And so therefore we have a 

12           responsibility to work with our partners, and 

13           we will continue to do that.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

15                  And I don't actually have an answer.  

16           It's really a question, but I -- it's not a 

17           trick question.  I have been told by many of 

18           the people doing car inspections in New York 

19           City that it's only $36 or $38 that they can 

20           charge, that it takes up a lot of time, and 

21           that we should really go to once every two 

22           years or once every X number of years, 

23           particularly with newer cars, because none of 

24           those things we're inspecting for are 


                                                                   439

 1           actually a problem when a car is relatively 

 2           new or of the kind of cars that are now being 

 3           built.

 4                  Do you know if that's the right 

 5           answer?  Should we go to less frequent 

 6           inspections?  

 7                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  

 8           Senator, I don't -- I don't know if that's 

 9           the right answer.  But we are seeking the 

10           right answer.  We are doing this right now.  

11           We've just introduced a new program for 

12           inspection stations called NYVIP 3.  I will 

13           not bore you with all the details of it.  

14                  But within that installation, we also 

15           are now looking at everything, including the 

16           amount and the fee that an inspection station 

17           gets.  We are looking at all of it.  And we 

18           will continue, and then we will communicate 

19           with the Executive and with the Legislature.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And maybe I'm 

21           very conscious of it; I think I'm the only 

22           legislative district in the state -- well, 

23           maybe Alex Bores also -- there's no gas 

24           station at all.  You have to go to someone 


                                                                   440

 1           else's district.  And you also have a little 

 2           more trouble finding an inspection station.  

 3           But that's not the question.  

 4                  Actually, the next question is 

 5           actually for the Thruway Authority.  Thank 

 6           you.

 7                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Okay, 

 8           thanks, Senator.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And I don't know 

10           if this is true, but I was told that the 

11           charge meter at Exit 23 isn't working, so 

12           every time I get on and off when I come 

13           upstate I'm actually not getting charged.  Is 

14           that true?

15                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  That's 

16           not -- that's not correct.  And I've had that 

17           conversation with some of your colleagues on 

18           that.  

19                  There was a glitch in terms of a lag 

20           in payment for some folks who have come 

21           through Exit 23, but we are collecting -- we 

22           are collecting from Exit 23.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  So even though 

24           we've moved now to an aut -- you don't even 


                                                                   441

 1           know that you're going through, but you 

 2           are -- the money is flowing as you would have 

 3           hoped to flow from this new system without 

 4           toll takers and tollbooths?  

 5                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Yes, it 

 6           is.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 8                  Thank you.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member Otis.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you.  

11                  Thank you, Commissioner.  Thank you, 

12           Director.  First, I want to compliment both 

13           of you in your agencies, not just on behalf 

14           of my office but everybody else, how great 

15           both of your agencies are in dealing with the 

16           individual constituent complaints and issues 

17           that come up.  Both very responsive.  Your 

18           teams are great.  So thank you.  

19                  PANELISTS:  Thank you.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  For Commissioner 

21           Schroeder, for DMV -- I'm not going to ask 

22           you to respond to this, but something that I 

23           think if we could get something post this 

24           hearing, more detail about the digital 


                                                                   442

 1           driver's license process, the technology 

 2           behind that, and to understand that better, 

 3           that would be a great thing for everybody.

 4                  So thank you for that, and we'll -- 

 5           that will be shared.

 6                  And then Frank, nice to see you.  

 7           Thank you for all the great Thruway Authority 

 8           stuff.

 9                  One thing that a few people -- Bill 

10           Magnarelli, Bill had mentioned and 

11           Tim Kennedy had mentioned about the 

12           EV charging.  And so I think, first of all, I 

13           was very pleased to see in your testimony 

14           that the EV charging rollout has actually 

15           been expanded over what it was a few years 

16           ago.  So the Thruway Authority and your 

17           contractor have sort of responded to the 

18           increasing demand.  

19                  There was an article in the paper a 

20           couple of weeks ago about the auto 

21           manufacturers are having concerns about 

22           people buying electric vehicles because of 

23           the lack of EV charging out there in the 

24           world enough.  


                                                                   443

 1                  And so given the growth that you've 

 2           projected, curious with your contract with 

 3           your Applecore {sic} group, what is the 

 4           ability, if you see six months from now that 

 5           we want to ramp up more robustly in terms of 

 6           EV charging, what's your ability to go beyond 

 7           the numbers that are in your testimony if the 

 8           Thruway Authority desires that?  

 9                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  The 

10           agreement, Assemblyman, that we have with the 

11           operator is expressly that they must keep up 

12           with demand.  So as demand increases, they 

13           will add additional EV charging sites.  

14                  Again, they want to do it.  This is 

15           not a battle.  They make money off of this, 

16           so -- but they are ready.  We've recognized 

17           that need, and they are going to be ready and 

18           willing and able to accomplish that.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  That's great to 

20           hear.  

21                  The other thing, with my 30 seconds 

22           that are left, is I don't know where the 

23           Thruway Authority is on this, but it's a 

24           question that periodically comes up in 


                                                                   444

 1           electricity requirements for EV charging, 

 2           other things that are there.  Are you 

 3           continuing to look at expanding 

 4           Thruway-right-of-way solar as part of the 

 5           solution for energy supply for these 

 6           locations?  

 7                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Yes, 

 8           we've worked with our partners at NYSERDA and 

 9           NYPA to explore those possibilities.  We have 

10           a couple of sites that we have solar.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

12           Director.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you.

14                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Thank 

15           you.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member Simon.

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Success.  Thank 

18           you.  And thank you, Chair Magnarelli.  

19                  So, Commissioner -- I want to say, 

20           Mr. Hoare, I'm probably the only person who 

21           doesn't get complaints about getting tickets 

22           for not having an E-ZPass.  So I'm letting 

23           you off the hook.  

24                  But I wanted to, first of all, 


                                                                   445

 1           thank you for your responsiveness and your 

 2           staff's responsiveness to some of the sort of 

 3           wacky issues I've brought to your attention.  

 4                  But -- and also I recently wrote in 

 5           support of the proposed changes that you were 

 6           making with regard to consistently dangerous 

 7           drivers, but also suggested a couple of 

 8           alternatives, one of which is we have so many 

 9           alcohol-related deaths -- there were over 

10           7,000 alcohol-related crashes last year, with 

11           335 deaths, I believe, and a 30 percent 

12           overall increase in alcohol-related 

13           fatalities since 2019 -- and suggested that 

14           we need to lower the blood alcohol content 

15           from .08 to .05 when we know we have 

16           cognitive and psychomotor impacts at that 

17           level.  Because that only will then make it 

18           worse if somebody's using some other 

19           substance which is harder to detect.

20                  And also the idea of ignition 

21           interlock devices, which for those people who 

22           have been found to have driven drunk but who 

23           keep getting on the road and are persistently 

24           dangerous drivers from alcohol, working on 


                                                                   446

 1           ignition interlock devices, which will keep 

 2           people away from -- the car won't start.  

 3                  Can you tell me what work you're doing 

 4           on those two areas?

 5                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  I will.  

 6           So thank you, Assemblymember.  And thanks for 

 7           all of your help.  And you've been helping 

 8           our office over the last little bit, and we 

 9           look forward to continuing to work with you.

10                  But as I mentioned earlier, impaired 

11           driving, 44 percent of fatal crashes in 

12           New York State are alcohol- or drug-related.  

13                  To the Governor's credit, the Governor 

14           in the State of the State and within the 

15           budgets has put in information to keep those 

16           dangerous drivers off the road.  And we 

17           continue to need the Legislature's help to 

18           continue to do that.  Most of my work with 

19           the Governor's Traffic Safety Committee has 

20           to do with that.  

21                  And so we will continue to work with 

22           the -- our partners across the state and also 

23           law enforcement and the drug recognition 

24           experts are very, very helpful in having them 


                                                                   447

 1           statewide to be able to detect those who are 

 2           impaired, either by alcohol or by drugs.  So 

 3           we will continue to work hard.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Yes.  But, you 

 5           know, the drug substances are a little bit 

 6           more fluid now in terms of what we know and 

 7           how much we know and who's impaired with what 

 8           substance at what level.

 9                  And that's one of the reasons why I 

10           think it really makes sense to really focus 

11           to alcohol, which we know a lot more about.

12                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Agreed.  

13           And I remember, Assemblymember, you brought 

14           this up last year in terms of Utah has a 

15           0.05. 

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

17           Commissioner.

18                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  I do know 

19           that there's legislation pending, and that's 

20           a legislative matter, and DMV would be very 

21           interested in working with the Legislature in 

22           whatever you come up with.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

24           Commissioner.


                                                                   448

 1                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

 2           you.  

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Thank you, 

 4           Commissioner.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

 6           Mitaynes, please.  

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  Thank you.  

 8                  My question is to the DMV 

 9           Commissioner.  

10                  What is the DMV doing to ensure that 

11           people who are unaware of their obligation to 

12           submit a vision test for a license obtained 

13           during the pandemic are not fined or 

14           otherwise punished?  

15                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Could you 

16           repeat the beginning of that, Assemblymember?  

17           I'm sorry.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  That's okay.  

19                  What is DMV doing to ensure that 

20           people who were unaware of their obligation 

21           to submit a vision test for a license 

22           obtained during the pandemic are not fined or 

23           otherwise punished?  

24                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  So what 


                                                                   449

 1           we are doing, Assemblymember -- and thank you 

 2           for the question.  It's the first time this 

 3           has come up.  

 4                  There were probably 500,000 people who 

 5           did not have to take the vision test because 

 6           it was during COVID.  But we did make the 

 7           stipulation that they would have to do it 

 8           thereafter.  And so we are now down to only 

 9           7 percent with possible license suspension.  

10           That's about 40,000.  

11                  But we are continuing to communicate 

12           with all New Yorkers.  And if any of your 

13           constituents are involved with this, we will 

14           call them to tell them what the easy steps 

15           are to be able to do the vision registry.  

16           They could do it at a DMV office.  They could 

17           do it at a supermarket.  They could do it at 

18           a drugstore.  Wherever we have a registered 

19           vendor, and we have them all over New York 

20           State.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  Thank you.

22                  Legislation like the Crash Victims 

23           Bill of Rights would provide crash survivors 

24           and their loved ones a voice at DMV 


                                                                   450

 1           administrative hearings.  Do you support 

 2           policies that establish procedures for 

 3           individuals' next of kin, for persons killed 

 4           in a crash, to present victim impact 

 5           statements at DMV fatality review hearings?  

 6                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Yeah.  

 7           So, Assemblymember, the question that you 

 8           just gave to me I've heard before.  Because 

 9           we work with groups, especially across 

10           New York City, who are very involved in this 

11           matter.  

12                  Specifically what you're talking about 

13           would -- are legislative matters.  But we 

14           communicate on a quarterly basis with groups 

15           who have this concern, and we try to do the 

16           best we can, especially for pedestrian safety 

17           and, in this particular case, in New York 

18           City.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  I just have a 

20           follow-up.

21                  Do you support extending these 

22           hearings to individuals who have been 

23           seriously injured in crashes?

24                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  What's 


                                                                   451

 1           the beginning of that?

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  If you 

 3           support extending these hearings to 

 4           individuals who have been seriously injured 

 5           in crashes.

 6                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  So again, 

 7           Assemblymember, I would prefer to take this 

 8           offline.  I don't completely understand the 

 9           question.  I don't want to answer it quickly.  

10           But we will take a look at it, and we will 

11           get back to you.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES:  I appreciate 

13           it.

14                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  You're 

15           welcome.  Thank you.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Yes, okay.  

17           Member Jacobson, please.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Thank you, 

19           Mr. Chairman.  

20                  Good to see both of you again.

21                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

22           you.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  I happen to 

24           have the good fortune of using some of the 


                                                                   452

 1           new technology from the DMV when I purchased 

 2           a car.  And another thing that happens is 

 3           when the release of lien is filed, then it's 

 4           on record almost automatically.  There's no 

 5           wait.  And they have the plates and 

 6           everything, and it was quite amazing.

 7                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

 8           you.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  And I'm always 

10           harping on who's ever there to make sure the 

11           job is being done.  But when things are done 

12           right, I want to follow up, and that's with 

13           the director.  So good job on the Thruway, 

14           particularly in my area, because that's so 

15           busy between Exit 17 and Route 84 with all 

16           the trucks going all the time.  

17                  I would hope that you can do those 

18           busy areas more often and not wait till the 

19           end or something.  And I realize you got a 

20           lot of funding at one point, but just to keep 

21           up on that as it goes along.

22                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Will do.  

23           Thank you, Assemblyman.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  And as I 


                                                                   453

 1           mentioned here earlier, there still is a bad 

 2           spot just a little south of New Paltz going 

 3           north, and a little bit north of New Paltz 

 4           going north, so it's -- but it's so much 

 5           better.

 6                  Concerning your electric charging 

 7           stations, it's good to see.  I think you've 

 8           got to have six -- a minimum six or eight in 

 9           one area so we don't have knife fights when 

10           these things become popular.  Are these 

11           Level 3?  That's the fastest one, that you 

12           can get it done in a half-hour.  

13                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Yes, the 

14           new ones that are going in at the service 

15           areas are Level 3.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Good.  That's 

17           good.  Because sometimes NYSERDA with the 

18           grants they give out is for Level 2, and I 

19           want to make sure they didn't sell you on 

20           that.  All right.  

21                  The other is there's still some 

22           bathrooms missing on some of the rest areas.  

23           So it would be nice if you could get the 

24           portable bathrooms that they use in 


                                                                   454

 1           construction sites and things like that.

 2                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Are you 

 3           talking about at the service areas that are 

 4           under construction?  

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  No, I said 

 6           construction sites get portable toilets and 

 7           bathrooms.  Right?  So I don't see why we 

 8           couldn't get those on -- at the rest areas 

 9           where we need them.

10                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  The ones 

11           that are open and functioning, to supplement 

12           the number of bathrooms available?  

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  Yeah, they 

14           function.  I mean, you just want to get them 

15           because therefore -- you know, because you're 

16           not done yet with some of the spots.

17                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Yes, 

18           we'll look at that.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  I think it 

20           would be a very simple, cost-effective 

21           solution.  And it might save us all in time 

22           of emergencies.  

23                  (Laughter.)

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON:  That's it.  


                                                                   455

 1           Thank you.

 2                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Thank 

 3           you.  

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

 5                  Member Manktelow.  

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW:  Thank you, 

 7           Chair, and Director.  Just a couple of 

 8           questions in regards to the Thruway.  

 9                  Out in my district I have some first 

10           responders that go to MVAs on the Thruway.  

11           They're small voluntary fire departments, and 

12           it's my understanding they get the bill from 

13           the Thruway Authority for that call.

14                  Is there something that we can do to 

15           simplify that so our first responders don't 

16           even have to deal with that?  Because in a 

17           rural area with small fire departments it 

18           seems to be an issue.  Just something I'm 

19           asking you to look into, if it's not already 

20           being done.

21                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  I will 

22           look at that.  I haven't really gotten those 

23           complaints.  They've gone online.  It's a 

24           fairly simple, straightforward way to go 


                                                                   456

 1           online and get that reimbursement.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW:  That's what I 

 3           thought too, as well, but that doesn't seem 

 4           to be the case, at least -- we've worked with 

 5           a couple of them several times, so maybe 

 6           we'll be in contact with you.

 7                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  I will 

 8           look into it and get back to you.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW:  Okay, thank 

10           you.

11                  Second question, Director.  Speed 

12           camera tickets.  Of course I'm getting quite 

13           a few calls, as many of us are.  And it's my 

14           understanding that when the individual gets 

15           the ticket, they have to pay the ticket, it's 

16           my understanding that the company that's 

17           actually getting the money back is actually 

18           out of state.  Is that correct?

19                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Our 

20           vendor is here -- has a presence in New York.  

21           I'm not sure where they are.  Well, their 

22           headquarters is, but they're -- they're here 

23           in New York and working with us on this speed 

24           camera program.


                                                                   457

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW:  All right.  

 2           Because some of my constituents are saying, 

 3           you know, why are we sending this money to a 

 4           company that's out of state and not doing it 

 5           to a company that's in state?  And I just 

 6           wanted an answer to give to them.

 7                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Well, I 

 8           guess the simplest answer is it was done to a 

 9           public RFP, and they responded and won in an 

10           open, transparent process.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW:  So I'm 

12           assuming they're the lowest bid, then, 

13           correct?

14                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Lowest 

15           is not the only element of it, or criteria.  

16           But they gave the best -- the best value 

17           deal, is presumably how they got picked.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW:  And my last 

19           question.  Talking to some of our local 

20           highway guys back home, you know, with the 

21           movement of going to electric vehicles, what 

22           percentage of the Thruway fleet is now 

23           electrified, or electric vehicles?

24                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  A small 


                                                                   458

 1           portion.  I don't have that number exactly, 

 2           but it's a small portion of our passenger 

 3           vehicles are electric.  

 4                  We, you know, continue, as we buy new 

 5           ones -- we try and go through the life of the 

 6           existing vehicle.  So we're looking at that.  

 7           It's on the books.  And looking at some point 

 8           to go to the heavier-duty vehicles as well.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW:  So are there 

10           any commercial-sized vehicles, snow plow 

11           trucks, that are electric vehicles now?

12                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Not at 

13           this time.  My understanding is that that 

14           technology does not exist as we sit here.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW:  Okay.  Thank 

16           you both for your time.

17                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Thanks.

18                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Good to 

19           see you, Assemblymember.  

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

21           Commissioner and Director.  We appreciate 

22           your patience in answering all the questions.  

23           Well done.  Thank you.  Thank you for being 

24           here and for all of the employees that you 


                                                                   459

 1           represent.  We appreciate your work.

 2                  DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER:  Thank 

 3           you, Mr. Chair.

 4                  ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:  Thank 

 5           you all very much.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Panel B.  

 8           This is the New York Public Transit 

 9           Association, Permanent Citizens Advisory 

10           Committee to the MTA, Riders Alliance, and 

11           Empire State Passengers Association.  All one 

12           panel.  

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And for all 

14           members who are still here, we are now past 

15           the government representatives.  Everybody 

16           has a three-minute maximum, with no round 

17           twos.  

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  No Round 2.  

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And the 

20           testifiers also have a three-minute maximum.  

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Right.  

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

23                  (Off the record.) 

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Right.  All 


                                                                   460

 1           right.  Members of the panel, each member of 

 2           the panel has a three-minute introduction, 

 3           okay?  And we're trying to stay to it.  I am 

 4           keeping all of the members and Senators on 

 5           board with that, so we're going to keep you 

 6           on board with it too.  

 7                  So who would like to begin?  Go right 

 8           ahead.   

 9                  MR. MORRELL:  Thank you for your 

10           support of public transportation and giving 

11           NYPTA the opportunity to testify today.  

12                  I am James Morrell, president of NYPTA 

13           and director of public transit for NYPTA in 

14           Buffalo, New York.  Earlier today you heard 

15           from MTA, and we support their priorities.  I 

16           will address the needs of transit systems in 

17           upstate New York and in the downstate 

18           suburbs.  

19                  The mobility provided by public 

20           transit is essential to economic activity 

21           across New York State.  Our communities are 

22           asking for more services, expanded 

23           frequencies, and new mobility choices like 

24           on-demand service.  Over the prior two years, 


                                                                   461

 1           state aid to non-MTA transit has grown by 

 2           15 percent.  This is an endorsement of the 

 3           critical role that transit plays in 

 4           supporting the economy, environment, social 

 5           equity, and affordable housing.  

 6                  At the same time, the cost to operate 

 7           transit service is rising as inflation 

 8           pressures operate on capital budgets.  We 

 9           thank Governor Hochul for recognizing the 

10           importance of public transportation in her 

11           Executive Budget.  Operating aid to upstate 

12           transit will grow by 5.4 percent, and 

13           5.6 percent for downstate.  

14                  Adding to the Governor's proposal to 

15           maintain the 15 percent annual growth in 

16           state aid will provide funding predictability 

17           essential to delivering the quality services 

18           our communities need.  With more resources, 

19           transit can increase bus frequencies, extend 

20           and expand service and coverage, introduce 

21           bus rapid transit, and add on-demand services 

22           where needed.  

23                  In Buffalo we would increase service 

24           levels on many of our heavily used buses and 


                                                                   462

 1           continue our effort to serve employment 

 2           opportunities.  Upstate transit faces a 

 3           further hurdle in being reliant on state 

 4           general funds, comprising nearly 50 percent 

 5           of upstate transit aid in the Executive 

 6           Budget.  

 7                  Our systems need and deserve 

 8           dedicated, sustainable revenues to provide 

 9           essential services and support the state 

10           initiatives.  Fixing upstate funding requires 

11           dedicated revenues to replace or supplement 

12           the current underperforming sources and 

13           adequately fund transit in the future.  

14                  In 2022, the Governor and the 

15           Legislature approved a five-year capital plan 

16           for non-MTA transit funding at $159 million 

17           per year.  The Executive Budget reduces this 

18           amount to 139 million by eliminating the past 

19           appropriation to NFTA for modernizing our 

20           rail infrastructure.  

21                  NFTA recommends continuing this 

22           $159 million appropriation and addressing 

23           additional member agency capital needs such 

24           as the NFTA and reappropriating their 


                                                                   463

 1           five-year capital program.  

 2                  Thank you.  

 3                  MS. DAGLIAN:  I've been watching for 

 4           hours.  I should know this by know, right?

 5                  (Laughter.) 

 6                  MS. DAGLIAN:  Hi, good evening.  I'm 

 7           Lisa Daglian.  I'm the executive director of 

 8           the Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee to 

 9           the MTA, PCAC, created by the Legislature in 

10           1981.  Thank you.  

11                  PCAC represents riders on the MTA's 

12           Long Island Rail Road, Metro-North Railroad, 

13           and New York City subways, buses, and the 

14           Staten Island Railway.  

15                  Our role is to advocate on behalf of 

16           riders and advise the MTA on operational 

17           performance and capital projects through 

18           policy recommendations and reports.  Thank 

19           you very much for holding this hearing today.  

20                  On behalf of the millions of people 

21           who use the system, thank you for everything 

22           you do and did last year to fully fund the 

23           MTA's operating budget like the essential 

24           service that it is, going even further and 


                                                                   464

 1           increasing service.  And we thank our 

 2           colleagues in advocacy here, particularly 

 3           Riders Alliance, for all the work that they 

 4           did to move the needle on that.  

 5                  And we're pleased that the Governor 

 6           continues to likewise show her understanding 

 7           of the vital importance of transit to riders 

 8           as an economic driver to the region.  

 9                  There's still a lot of work to be done 

10           to make transit more reliable, safe, 

11           equitable, and affordable for riders.  We 

12           have several proposals that we've shared with 

13           your office and that we're happy to discuss 

14           with you in more detail.  We look forward to 

15           working with you this budget season to 

16           advance more fare discounts and options so 

17           that transit isn't cost-prohibitive for any 

18           rider and opens up opportunities for 

19           education, jobs, leisure travel, 

20           entertainment, and all the region has to 

21           offer.  

22                  Affordability is key for all 

23           New Yorkers, and that's why it's crucial to 

24           expand fare discounts and options around the 


                                                                   465

 1           MTA system.  We support the proposal to 

 2           forgive a rider's fare evasion summons if 

 3           they enroll in Fair Fares, but that doesn't 

 4           translate at the moment to the Long Island 

 5           Rail Road and Metro-North, because Fair Fares 

 6           doesn't exist on the commuter railroads.  And 

 7           we think it's time to change that.  

 8           Low-income New Yorkers should be able to 

 9           afford to ride the rail infrastructure that 

10           runs through their backyards and also to be 

11           afforded the same opportunities as people who 

12           ride the subways.  

13                  We'd like to see a CityTicket weekly 

14           offered, with available transfers to subways 

15           and buses, to fill the void from the 

16           elimination of Atlantic Ticket Weekly.  We've 

17           asked the MTA to initiate a field study this 

18           year to assess its feasibility.  

19                  We're also calling for extending the 

20           senior and disabled Medicare 50 percent fare 

21           discounts to the morning peak on the 

22           Long Island Railroad and Metro-North, 

23           currently the only time when this discount 

24           doesn't apply.  It's time to send a clear 


                                                                   466

 1           message that New York values these groups' 

 2           contributions to the workforce and our 

 3           communities.  

 4                  We also strongly support the Rider 

 5           Representation Act, which would provide 

 6           voting seats on the MTA Board for its rider 

 7           representatives, currently the only members 

 8           on the board required to ride transit.  We'd 

 9           also add a new member with disabilities, 

10           recommended by the Mayor's Office for People 

11           with Disabilities with input from the 

12           respective disability organizations.  

13                  Congestion pricing.  We spoke a lot 

14           about that, and we'd love to talk more about 

15           it, but my time is up.  Thank you.   

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you so 

17           much.  

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

19                  I've got to push hard too.  Riders 

20           Alliance.  

21                  MR. PEARLSTEIN:  Good afternoon.  

22                  My name is Danny Pearlstein.  I'm the 

23           policy and communications director at the 

24           Riders Alliance.  We are a grassroots 


                                                                   467

 1           organization in New York City of subway and 

 2           bus riders fighting for better public 

 3           transit.  And thanks to you all in 

 4           significant part, we have a pretty good 

 5           record.  

 6                  New York, as Lisa was describing, is 

 7           uniquely positioned post-pandemic to have a 

 8           thriving public transit system, and that is 

 9           due to the good work you put in place both 

10           before the pandemic -- not being able to see 

11           what would happen with congestion pricing -- 

12           but also last year, you know, with new 

13           sustained funding to replace some of that 

14           fare revenue lost due to work-from-home 

15           primarily.  So we are immensely grateful.  

16                  We are spending a lot of our time and 

17           energy right now organizing to improve what 

18           is unfortunately still the slowest bus 

19           service in the nation.  You know, obviously 

20           we have heavily congested streets.  

21           Congestion pricing will help with that.  But 

22           we need more and better priority for what is 

23           also the largest bus-riding population in the 

24           nation, the people in the five boroughs.  So 


                                                                   468

 1           we are working actively on that.  

 2                  On congestion pricing, as you all 

 3           discussed with the chair earlier, there has 

 4           been widespread misinformation about the work 

 5           that's gone into preparation for the program.  

 6           And I just want to highlight that, you know, 

 7           the MTA spent more than two years preparing 

 8           more than 4,000 pages of environmental 

 9           studies of the program under the close 

10           supervision of the United States government.  

11                  So the reason that opponents of the 

12           program are able to point to particular 

13           potential environmental impacts is in fact 

14           because they have already been studied 

15           exhaustively.  Had we not known what they 

16           were, they couldn't be pointing them out 

17           today.  

18                  But I want to shift gears a little bit 

19           and talk a little bit about some work that 

20           we're now doing on the state level, 

21           organizing with folks all across the state -- 

22           Buffalo, in Rochester and Syracuse, here in 

23           Albany, as well as the Hudson Valley and 

24           Westchester and Long Island -- in an emerging 


                                                                   469

 1           coalition that we'll be introducing up here 

 2           in a couple of weeks called New Yorkers for 

 3           Transportation Equity.  And our proximate 

 4           goal is to change the conversation around how 

 5           the State DOT operates.  

 6                  New York obviously spends more money 

 7           than any other state on public transit, but 

 8           we could be doing better.  And we could be 

 9           providing more options for more New Yorkers 

10           in rural, suburban, and urban communities to 

11           get around.  Right?  

12                  And the DOT commissioner spoke 

13           effectively to that when she was answering 

14           Assemblymember Gallagher's question, that she 

15           wants to create more opportunities to walk, 

16           bike, and ride public transit.  But as she 

17           also said, in response to the same question, 

18           the state is spending lots of money on 

19           highway-widening still to this day, and that 

20           includes in New York City, where the State of 

21           New York is investing $5 billion to widen the 

22           Van Wyck, the Bruckner, the Belt, and the 

23           FDR Drive.  

24                  And so there is a lot that we could do 


                                                                   470

 1           if we were able to reinvest those funds.  

 2           There's a lot more freedom and opportunity 

 3           and mobility that we could create all across 

 4           New York in all of our communities and, as 

 5           people discussed, in between our communities, 

 6           with better rail connections.  And so we're 

 7           eager to discuss that with you all today.  

 8                  Thank you.  

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

10           That was quick.  

11                  Empire State Passengers Association.  

12                  MR. STRAUSS:  Good afternoon, Finance 

13           Committee Chair Krueger, Transportation 

14           Chairs Magnarelli and Kennedy, and members of 

15           the legislative committees here today.  

16                  Thank you for the opportunity to 

17           testify on the proposed budget for the 

18           Department of Transportation.  My name is 

19           Steve Strauss, and I am the executive 

20           director of the Empire State Passengers 

21           Association.  ESPA is a statewide advocacy 

22           organization working on behalf of intercity 

23           passenger-rail riders for more reliable, more 

24           frequent, and faster Amtrak service in 


                                                                   471

 1           New York.  

 2                  Let me start my testimony with a 

 3           rhetorical question.  How many of you knew 

 4           that the state had released an $8.8 billion 

 5           plan to improve intercity passenger-rail 

 6           service -- a plan that proposed spending 

 7           $350 million a year to rebuild the tracks 

 8           between Niagara Falls and New York City, 

 9           construct 370 miles of new track, reduce the 

10           travel time between Buffalo and Albany by an 

11           hour, and add four additional trains over the 

12           next 25 years?  

13                  I'm guessing that few of you knew this 

14           unless you had heard it from an ESPA-member 

15           constituent, or maybe your staff had heard it 

16           from me.  That's part of the problem.  

17                  If you review the FY '25 Executive 

18           Budget briefing book, you will not find much 

19           mention of an expanded intercity 

20           passenger-rail program.  What you will find 

21           is about $90 million of proposed spending on 

22           passenger rail, nearly identical to prior 

23           years.  Amtrak will receive about 44 million 

24           to pay for the cost of providing Amtrak 


                                                                   472

 1           service in New York state.  The remaining 

 2           45 million supports the Passenger and Freight 

 3           Rail Assistance Program, which funds capital 

 4           improvements to freight and passenger rail 

 5           service.  

 6                  The administration's budget proposes a 

 7           10-person increase in full-time equivalents 

 8           for the department, but no increase in staff 

 9           for the Office of Passenger and Freight 

10           Transportation.  Without more resources, new 

11           state hires, consultants, and capital funds, 

12           DOT will not be able to get this rail 

13           improvement program off the ground.  

14                  Even worse, this lack of resources 

15           and, more importantly, lack of commitment 

16           from senior-level staff puts us at risk of 

17           continuing to fall short at winning our share 

18           of discretionary funding from the 

19           infrastructure bill.  

20                  Now let me pivot to a novel idea for 

21           additional funding for the state's intercity 

22           passenger-rail program.  You may remember 

23           that Governors Cuomo and Murphy announced a 

24           handshake deal with the Biden administration 


                                                                   473

 1           to pay for 50 percent of the gateway tunnels 

 2           and related infrastructure improvements.  

 3                  Today, the federal funding of the 

 4           Gateway Project is now over 68 percent of the 

 5           projected costs.  This means that New York 

 6           has a potential savings of about $1 billion 

 7           that it could reallocate to other intercity 

 8           passenger-rail improvements and perhaps 

 9           commuter rail.  

10                  Let's take that money and invest it in 

11           projects to advance the Empire Corridor Rail 

12           plan.  

13                  Thank you for allowing ESPA to testify 

14           today.  I would be happy to try and answer 

15           any questions that members of the committee 

16           might have.  

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Perfect 

18           timing.

19                  Do we have anyone?

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  We do.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Go right 

22           ahead.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Oh, thank you.  

24                  Senator Kennedy, our Transportation 


                                                                   474

 1           chair.  Only three minutes, everyone.  

 2                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you very much.  

 3                  First of all, thanks for all of your 

 4           testimony, your leadership over many years.  

 5                  James, great to see you.  You had 

 6           mentioned the NFTA.  I want to give you 

 7           another opportunity to talk about the 

 8           importance there, about the five-year capital 

 9           plan.  The ask is $150 million.  Can you talk 

10           about what that $150 million will be used for 

11           with that five-year capital plan?  

12                  Also STOA.  Obviously, it's important 

13           to all of the public transit authorities.  If 

14           you could talk to it from your perspective.  

15           And we'll start there --   

16                  MR. MORRELL:  Sure.  

17                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  -- capital and STOA.  

18                  MR. MORRELL:  Sure.  Thank you, 

19           Senator.  

20                  As you indicated, NFTA was 

21           appropriated $100 million over five years.  

22           That was gone before we even got it.  We are 

23           doing great things with that.  We need 

24           another five years -- as you indicated, 


                                                                   475

 1           150 million.  

 2                  Tunnel and fire protection needs to be 

 3           replaced.  The panel liners is crumbling 

 4           within the station.  We have to upgrade all 

 5           the elevators and escalators.  There's not a 

 6           difference with an elevator and an escalator 

 7           in downstate and New York City than in 

 8           Buffalo.  

 9                  We have a number of issues that we are 

10           working on continuously in a state of good 

11           repair that is needed to provide the level of 

12           service that our community needs.  So the 

13           additional funding, along with the 

14           159 million for all of non-MTA capital, would 

15           continue to provide for the level of service 

16           that we need.  

17                  And also, with the 150 million, it 

18           would allow us to be able to have -- to 

19           leverage the federal funds from FTA for new 

20           projects.  

21                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  And let me just 

22           accent that real quick.  We've got a minute 

23           left.  I want you to hit on the drain 

24           financially that light rail is to the 


                                                                   476

 1           operations of the system.  

 2                  MR. MORRELL:  Sure.  

 3                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  And the need for 

 4           more funding.  

 5                  MR. MORRELL:  Sure.  

 6                  So for many years we've taken away our 

 7           operating resources to put into capital, and 

 8           that has not allowed us to extend service, 

 9           hire individuals.  So providing 150 million 

10           will do great things to modernize the system, 

11           to be ready for expansion, but also hold 

12           harmless the operating budget from STOA at 

13           the 15 percent that's been generated over the 

14           past two years.  

15                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  And so 15 percent 

16           operating, that's the ask.  The Executive 

17           Budget put in about 5.  

18                  MR. MORRELL:  Yes.  

19                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Can you talk about 

20           the need to bump that up by another 

21           10 percent?  

22                  MR. MORRELL:  Sure.  

23                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Statewide.  

24                  MR. MORRELL:  So what it will do is it 


                                                                   477

 1           will provide the opportunity for NFTA and 

 2           other upstate properties, as well as non -- 

 3           the suburban areas in -- outside of New York 

 4           City -- to expand service, to provide 

 5           additional services where we're not going 

 6           currently.  

 7                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you.  

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 9           sir.  

10                  Member Shimsky, please.  

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Thank you so 

12           much, all of you, for everything you do.   

13                  The one issue I wanted to bring up was 

14           when we're talking about mass transit and how 

15           to grow mass transit either in the suburbs or 

16           even in the outer parts of the outer 

17           boroughs, it's going to be time to come up 

18           with a hybrid system, a combination of 

19           fixed-route and other ride sharing, other 

20           potential conveyances using some ride-share 

21           principles.  Because you're never going to 

22           have enough fixed routes.  That would be 

23           prohibitively expensive, and you wouldn't 

24           have enough people using them.  


                                                                   478

 1                  So I hope that as you're looking where 

 2           to advocate in future years, I hope we could 

 3           talk more about that.  

 4                  MR. STRAUSS:  Excuse me, are you 

 5           aware -- last year the Legislature 

 6           appropriated $5 million for, I believe, new 

 7           technologies and last-mile services.  And 

 8           CDTA here in Albany has announced a new 

 9           program, they will have an on-demand shuttle 

10           from the Rennsselaer Train Station to 

11           Downtown Albany, and that is -- they were 

12           hoping to get it into operation by next 

13           month.  I'm not sure what the start date is.  

14           So --  

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  So do -- 

16           are -- we have pilots on the ground already?  

17           Excuse that bad pun.

18                  (Laughter.) 

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Do we have 

20           pilots operational at this point?  

21                  MR. STRAUSS:  Let's say that the CDTA 

22           program is on track.  

23                  And three other upstate systems have 

24           $1 million each, and then I think there's a 


                                                                   479

 1           million dollars of discretionary money that 

 2           State DOT will make available to other 

 3           transit systems in the state.  I believe 

 4           that's the way it's set up.  

 5                  MS. DAGLIAN:  In the MTA system, you 

 6           know, first-mile-last-mile is something 

 7           that's really critical, particularly because 

 8           it's very linear, it's very expensive, it's 

 9           very old.  And in some places it's worked, 

10           some places it hasn't worked as well to put 

11           in on-demand service.  

12                  The MTA, to their credit, developed a 

13           first-mile-last-mile toolkit that it worked 

14           with local communities to shop around, to see 

15           what would work, how would the local 

16           communities make the best of what resources 

17           they have.  And it will help those 

18           communities and municipalities apply for 

19           grants that they're eligible for.  

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Okay.  

21                  MS. DAGLIAN:  So there is a lot of 

22           work on the MTA level.  

23                  Now, we as the Permanent Citizens 

24           Advisory Committee to the MTA have been very 


                                                                   480

 1           involved in developing the bike/ped report 

 2           and recommendations that we put forward to 

 3           the MTA that they incorporated into their 

 4           report, into their recommendations.  That's 

 5           not just for New York City, that's also for 

 6           the counties outside and for the systems 

 7           outside.  Because it's -- you have to get 

 8           there and home.  

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Yeah.  Thank 

10           you.  

11                  Do you think this all has a future?  

12           Jump ball for everybody.  

13                  MS. DAGLIAN:  It has to.  

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Good question 

15           to end on.  Thank you.  Thank you very much.

16                  Thank you.  

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

18                  Senator Comrie.  

19                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.  

20                  Lisa Daglian, thank you for being 

21           here.  Thank you all for being here today, 

22           Danny as well.  

23                  Can you drill down into why you think 

24           the Fair Fares program would make sense for 


                                                                   481

 1           commuters?  

 2                  MS. DAGLIAN:  I'd be delighted to, 

 3           thank you.  

 4                  So the Fair Fares program works on 

 5           city subways and buses, and it doesn't work, 

 6           we think, as well as it could because it 

 7           is -- it's good for -- for people who are 

 8           eligible, who make 120 percent of the federal 

 9           poverty level.  We've been advocating with 

10           our colleagues in advocacy for 200 percent of 

11           the federal poverty level; that would allow 

12           more people to access it.  

13                  But it's still for just subways and 

14           buses.  It means that people who have a 

15           commuter rail -- that's Long Island Rail 

16           Road, Metro-North -- running through their 

17           backyard but can't afford the fare, can't -- 

18           you know, may have to ride two hours on 

19           subways and buses in order to get to work or 

20           to school.  

21                  So by cutting the fare in half for 

22           them and enabling them access to opportunity 

23           with a reduced fare, we think the city is 

24           able to fund that with the Fair Fares funding 


                                                                   482

 1           that they currently have, since it's not 

 2           currently utilized, which is also a shame.  

 3                  SENATOR COMRIE:  And can you elucidate 

 4           the Fair Fares program that you're talking 

 5           about to make sure that commuters can 

 6           understand or see that there's a clear and 

 7           concise program across the different 

 8           modalities to take the -- take either the 

 9           train or the subway that we discussed?  

10                  MS. DAGLIAN:  Mm-hmm.  So right now a 

11           few are -- it's an income-eligible-based 

12           system for subways and buses.  If you are 

13           making 120 percent of the federal poverty 

14           level as an individual or family of four, you 

15           can apply for Fair Fares and get a card that 

16           allows you to ride on subways and buses at a 

17           half-fare.  

18                  But you can't use that on subways and 

19           buses because there's no parity on the 

20           Long Island Rail Road -- I'm sorry, you can't 

21           use that on the Long Island Rail Road and 

22           Metro-North.  There's no parity between the 

23           systems.  Which is a whole other conversation 

24           on fare integration and rationalization that 


                                                                   483

 1           we hope will come together.  

 2                  But right now we think the time has 

 3           come for expanding Fair Fares to the 

 4           Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North within 

 5           the city, so that the city -- it makes sense 

 6           for the city to fund it.  

 7                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Can you also talk 

 8           about the creating of the program so that 

 9           each region would have its own clear fare 

10           system so that people could understand, and 

11           why you think that would increase ridership.  

12                  MS. DAGLIAN:  I'm sorry.  So that 

13           the -- 

14                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Each region in the 

15           MTA area to create a clear zone fare system 

16           for -- 

17                  MS. DAGLIAN:  Oh, absolutely.  Right 

18           now it's a very legacy system on each of the 

19           different railroads that is sort of -- if 

20           they eliminate one zone, they just didn't 

21           renumber it.  So you can't tell -- it's not a 

22           distance-based formula.  

23                  So we think that making it rational 

24           makes sense so that people can understand 


                                                                   484

 1           where they're going and how much they're 

 2           paying.  

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you. 

 4                  SENATOR COMRIE:  Thank you.  

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 6                  Assembly.  

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  I don't see 

 8           anybody else, so I think we're finished.  

 9           You?  Member Simon?  No?  Okay.  We're all 

10           set.  

11                  (Inaudible exchange; laughter.) 

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  You're all 

13           advocating.  Very good.  Thank you all very 

14           much for your testimony.  Thank you.  

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

16                  MS. DAGLIAN:  Thank you.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Next we go to 

18           Panel C:  Associated General Contractors of 

19           New York State; Construction Industry Council 

20           of Westchester and Hudson Valley, Inc; 

21           New York State Association of Town 

22           Superintendents of Highways; Rebuild New York 

23           Now.  

24                  And also, is the New York State County 


                                                                   485

 1           Highway Superintendents Association here?  If 

 2           you are, just raise your hand.  Nobody 

 3           checked in.  Oh, you are.  Okay.  So we've 

 4           got all five.

 5                  (Off the record.) 

 6                  MR. SMITH:  Good afternoon, 

 7           Senator Krueger, Assemblymember Weinstein, 

 8           and other members of the New York State 

 9           Legislature.  I am Jeff Smith, highway 

10           director for Tompkins County and the 

11           president of the New York State County 

12           Highway Superintendents Association.  

13                  As always, we appreciate the annual 

14           opportunity to discuss the Executive Budget 

15           proposal and report to you on the conditions 

16           and needs of New York's local transportation 

17           system.  

18                  First I'd like to begin by talking 

19           about the BRIDGE NY program, which directs 

20           federal and state funding to local bridge and 

21           culvert projects throughout the state.  In 

22           all four rounds of BRIDGE NY thus far, the 

23           number and value of project applications far 

24           exceeded the funding available for each 


                                                                   486

 1           region of the state.  In 2022, only a little 

 2           more than half the bridge applications 

 3           received funding, and less than one-third of 

 4           the culvert applications secured an award.  

 5           And we expect the same to happen in the 

 6           current round as the applications are due 

 7           this week.  

 8                  On Monday, the latest Graber Report 

 9           was released by the Department of 

10           Transportation.  According to the report, 

11           over just the last three years, from 2020 to 

12           '22, 1.25 million square feet of local-owned 

13           bridge deck have moved from good/excellent to 

14           fair/poor, and an additional 1.24 million 

15           square feet of state-owned bridge deck became 

16           deficient.  

17                  While the overall bridge deck decline 

18           is huge, it is much worse as a percentage of 

19           the entire local system since the state 

20           maintains two-and-a-half times as many 

21           square feet of bridge deck than local 

22           governments.  This comes as no surprise, 

23           since during the same three-year period DOT 

24           spending on state bridges was cut by over 


                                                                   487

 1           350 million annually.  From 2020 to '22, 

 2           New York spent an average of 1.2 billion 

 3           annually on its bridges.  In the three years 

 4           before, 2017 to 2019, the state averaged 

 5           1.5 billion annually.  Thus a 350 million 

 6           annual reduction in bridge spending.  

 7                  While bridge spending was being 

 8           reduced, highway construction costs have 

 9           increased as a result of inflation by a 

10           record 58 percent, according to FHWA.  

11                  BRIDGE NY is a great program, but more 

12           needs to be done to protect these valuable 

13           assets.  My colleague Greg will be speaking 

14           in more detail about our funding asks, but I 

15           would like to mention our request to add 

16           language to amend the Highway Law to increase 

17           the CHIPS competitive bid threshold from 

18           350,000 to 1 million.  Increasing the CHIPS 

19           bidding threshold to -- or eliminating the 

20           threshold altogether will give municipalities 

21           more flexibility to pursue the most 

22           cost-effective option on behalf of the 

23           taxpayers.  

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  


                                                                   488

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  I'm sorry.  

 3           We have to keep our time limits to everybody.  

 4                  Next, sir?  

 5                  MR. HALLBERG:  Good afternoon.  I'm 

 6           Greg Hallberg, president of the New York 

 7           State Association of Town Superintendents of 

 8           Highways and highway superintendent for the 

 9           Town of Ellery in Chautauqua County.  

10                  As you know, between the county and 

11           the town associations, our collective 

12           membership and union workforce is responsible 

13           for ensuring safe operation of 87 percent of 

14           the state's public roads, half of its 

15           bridges, and plowing not only our huge system 

16           but over a quarter of the New York State 

17           Department of Transportation's roads.  This 

18           massive local system consists of over 

19           97,000 centerline miles of roadways and 

20           8600 highway bridges.  

21                  Governor Kathy Hochul's Executive 

22           Budget proposal continues the third year of 

23           the 32.8 billion five-year investment plan 

24           for the New York State Department of 


                                                                   489

 1           Transportation and local road systems.  As 

 2           Jeff mentioned, record high inflation rates 

 3           in highway construction materials have 

 4           severely increased the costs, and as a result 

 5           local governments are seeing a significant 

 6           reduction in the real dollar value of local 

 7           highway maintenance programs.  

 8                  Unfortunately, the Governor's 

 9           Executive Budget is cutting CHIPS aid and the 

10           lifeblood of local highway departments by 

11           60 million and State Touring Route aid by 

12           40 million, $100 million less than local road 

13           funding as compared to last year.  In 

14           addition to this 100 million hit to these two 

15           programs, the other local programs remain 

16           flat.  

17                  It is critical that last year's 

18           funding levels be restored and an additional 

19           150 million be added to the 2024-'25 budget 

20           for local highway programs like CHIPS and 

21           Extreme Winter Recovery.  This will allow us 

22           to recoup some of our real funding loss in 

23           the inflation since the five-year program was 

24           adopted in '22.  


                                                                   490

 1                  In previous years, you, the members of 

 2           the Legislature, have responded to the dire 

 3           conditions of the state's transportation 

 4           system and argued for CHIPS and other local 

 5           transportation funding.  But more is required 

 6           to reverse deteriorating conditions of our 

 7           local transportation systems and make 

 8           significant progress in its rehabilitation.  

 9                  Funding shortages mean many local 

10           governments' preventive pavement preservation 

11           strategies to apply well-timed and targeted 

12           maintenance treatments fall short of what is 

13           necessary to avoid more costly major 

14           rehabilitation and reconstruction down the 

15           road.  

16                  Based on these conditions we discussed 

17           above -- the rising costs -- we make the 

18           following requests.  Support increasing the 

19           Executive Budget proposed level for CHIPS by 

20           160 million.  Support increasing the 

21           Executive Budget proposal level of 

22           Extreme Winter Recovery funding by 

23           90 million.  Support and maintain the other 

24           vital local transportation funding programs 


                                                                   491

 1           like Marchiselli, BRIDGE NY, PAVE-NY, State 

 2           Touring Routes, and the Pave Our Potholes.  

 3                  As public servants ourselves, we 

 4           understand the difficulty in trying to meet 

 5           all of our constituents' needs and resources.  

 6           Thank you for your time.  

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 8           sir.  Thank you.  

 9                  Next?

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Press hard.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  There you go.  

12           There you go.  

13                  MR. COONEY:  Thank you, Walter.

14                  Good evening, Chair Krueger, 

15           Chair Magnarelli, and Chair Kennedy.  Thank 

16           you for the opportunity to contribute to this 

17           important public hearing.  

18                  My name is John Cooney, Jr., and I 

19           serve as the executive director of the 

20           Construction Industry Council of Westchester 

21           and Hudson Valley, Inc.  

22                  The CIC acts as a collective 

23           bargaining agent for some 600 employers in 

24           the heavy-highway contracting community as 


                                                                   492

 1           well as hundreds of suppliers and builders 

 2           throughout the region aligned with New York 

 3           State DOT Region 8.  

 4                  As advocates for the heavy-highway and 

 5           transportation infrastructure sector of 

 6           construction, CIC partners with some 30 union 

 7           locals of organized labor.  

 8                  As I speak to you today, we are coming 

 9           close to the completion of the second full 

10           year of the current five-year New York State 

11           capital plan.  The 32.8 billion five-year 

12           capital plan represented a 2.8 billion 

13           increase over the previous five years of 

14           capital investment.  

15                  The present capital plan, at its 

16           onset, provided for the approximately 

17           4.1 billion of new funding for priority 

18           projects such as the Van Wyck I-81 in 

19           Kensington.  The new funding was in a major 

20           sense developed by a 2.8 billion increase in 

21           funding combined with 1 billion cut from the 

22           New York State DOT core program.  

23                  Despite the 2.8 billion increase in 

24           spending over the present five-year plan to 


                                                                   493

 1           date, conditions of roads and bridges across 

 2           the state have worsened.  In reviewing over 

 3           10 years of data, New York State presently 

 4           has a record high 4,264 deficient bridges.  

 5                  Pavements.  In 2017, 25 percent of 

 6           New York State roads were in fair or poor 

 7           condition.  In 2022, 42 percent of New York 

 8           State roads were in fair or poor condition.  

 9           The Hudson Valley, represented by New York 

10           State Region 8 -- my home region -- has and 

11           has had the worst road and bridge conditions 

12           in New York State.  All of this information 

13           is derived from New York State DOT data.  

14                  Why, despite a 2.8 billion increase in 

15           funding, are conditions worse?  Since the 

16           onset of the capital plan in 2021 through the 

17           end of 2023, there has been a 21 percent cost 

18           increase for highway construction, as noted 

19           by the Federal Reserve.  And then the 

20           stripping of 1 billion out of that core 

21           program has hampered -- has put a constraint 

22           on all of the regions of New York State to 

23           take care of their normal stock of roads and 

24           bridges.  


                                                                   494

 1                  Without increased funding, the decline 

 2           in road and bridge conditions will continue 

 3           to decelerate and get worse.  We at the 

 4           Construction Industry Council believe that at 

 5           least 400 million should be added to the 

 6           2024-'25 budget for core highway and then 

 7           150 million for CHIPS funding.  

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 9           sir.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

12                  Walter?  

13                  MR. PACHOLCZAK:  Thank you.  And thank 

14           you, Chairs Krueger and Weinstein, for the 

15           opportunity to testify today.  Thank you to 

16           the chairs, rankers, and members of the 

17           committee.  

18                  First, I just wanted to say that AGC 

19           commends the leadership of Governor Hochul, 

20           DOT Commissioner Dominguez, Thruway Executive 

21           Director Hoare, MTA Chair and President 

22           Lieber.  Thank you to all the dedicated 

23           employees of the Executive Chamber, of the 

24           Division of Budget, the state agencies and 


                                                                   495

 1           authorities.  They're our partners in 

 2           rebuilding New York.  

 3                  But before I speak about the New York 

 4           State Department of Transportation capital 

 5           program, AGC would like to commend the 

 6           leadership of Governor Hochul and the 

 7           Legislature and all those involved to help 

 8           make work zone and workplace safety a 

 9           priority through initiatives like Operation 

10           Hard Hat and the Work Zone Traffic Safety 

11           Camera program.  Safety is always a priority.  

12                  This is the third consecutive year 

13           that AGC was afforded the opportunity to 

14           testify at the Transportation budget hearing, 

15           public hearing today.  As we enter the third 

16           year of this five-year, fully funded DOT 

17           capital program, AGC has accurately 

18           forecasted in '22, '23 and '24 that the 

19           enacted funding levels and inflationary 

20           pressures will result in declining road and 

21           bridge conditions.  

22                  I think inflation -- here is something 

23           that we all agree on -- erodes a capital 

24           program that's essentially flat.  So when 


                                                                   496

 1           you're looking at this now, what we see over 

 2           the course of the five-year program is that 

 3           you're losing 20 percent.  You might lose a 

 4           full year of the DOT capital program, which 

 5           is something that we all don't want to see.  

 6           It's important not only for jobs, for 

 7           economic development -- it helps really to 

 8           keep our state moving.  

 9                  But, you know, looking back at 2022, 

10           we're all excited:  $4.6 billion coming in 

11           from the federal government, it's going to 

12           save the day.  And at the end of the day, 

13           though, we actually spent a little less on 

14           the overall capital program compared to prior 

15           years.  

16                  Last year we said the same thing.  You 

17           know, we're not -- inflation is eroding the 

18           capital program, we're not keeping up, and 

19           therefore you see declining road and bridge 

20           conditions not only last year, but you'll see 

21           it this year as well.  

22                  In reviewing the '24-'25 DOT capital 

23           program, we see some similar declines in 

24           conditions in the core and highway and bridge 


                                                                   497

 1           investment there as well.  I'm not going to 

 2           go through the data, because a lot of that is 

 3           in our testimony.  I think we all share the 

 4           same data, for the most part; it's all from 

 5           the same source.  But conditions continuously 

 6           decline when you're talking about a record 

 7           capital program.  

 8                  So with 28 seconds left to go, a 

 9           couple of things we want.  We want to see an 

10           investment.  In a letter signed by more than 

11           40 organizations, including business, labor, 

12           and local governments, and distributed to the 

13           members of the committee, the coalition is 

14           supporting an additional $400 million to the 

15           DOT core capital program.  

16                  We're also supporting the County and 

17           Town Highway Superintendents call for an 

18           additional 250 million for our local roads 

19           and bridges.  You know, that's our bread and 

20           butter for a lot of these guys here.  

21                  And thank you for your time.  

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

24                  Fred, you're next.  


                                                                   498

 1                  MR. HIFFA:  Hi.  Good evening.  

 2                  I first want to start off by thanking 

 3           everybody on behalf of Rebuild NY Now.  

 4           Because of your efforts, we finally have the 

 5           DOT putting out reporting requirements.  

 6           Ironically, the Graber Report, which tells us 

 7           about the bridge inspections, even though 

 8           it's in statute, was three years behind and 

 9           got released Sunday night, four days before 

10           this hearing.  So I wasn't able to include 

11           that in my original testimony, but I want to 

12           talk about it.  

13                  I also want to talk about the fact 

14           that in 2001 you finally put in statute that 

15           the pavement and bridge reports have to be 

16           put in place by the DOT and reported to you 

17           annually, because in 2020 they hadn't done a 

18           report since 2015.  

19                  So when we look at the Graber Report, 

20           what do we see?  Two and a half million 

21           square feet of bridge decking became 

22           deficient in just the last three years.  

23           That's the equivalent of 40 miles of bridges 

24           becoming deficient in the past three years.  


                                                                   499

 1                  The other thing the report tells us is 

 2           it tells us where the money's being spent and 

 3           how much.  Over the last three years, 

 4           spending on bridges has declined by an annual 

 5           amount of $350 million.  So this 32.8 billion 

 6           program is delivering less than the previous 

 7           program.  We've gone from spending about 

 8           1.1 billion a year on bridges to about 1.4.  

 9                  That's why we're seeing these huge 

10           declines.  Right now we have -- one out of 

11           four bridges is deficient in this state.  

12           When we look at the pavements, we see the 

13           same.  We see four out of 10 miles are now 

14           deficient on pavements.  The overall numbers 

15           are really staggering.  

16                  So how does the Governor look at, in 

17           the proposed budget, of dealing with these 

18           declining conditions?  Eliminate the 

19           $100 million that you folks added to the 

20           local program.  Keep the core funding 

21           virtually flat -- it's a $4 million add.  And 

22           then she adds $500 million as it is called 

23           for in the capital program for priority 

24           projects.  


                                                                   500

 1                  That 500 million will never be spent 

 2           this fiscal year or next.  When you look at 

 3           the first two years of the spend-out compared 

 4           to the plan on priority projects, they are 

 5           $1.3 billion behind in the first two years.  

 6                  These are tough projects.  I'm not 

 7           blaming someone.  But to take that 

 8           500 million and put it -- when we've got 

 9           these declining conditions, and not take it 

10           and put it into the core makes no sense.  

11                  The money is there, the appropriation 

12           authority is there.  We always see a lag.  

13           You've got about a billion and a half dollars 

14           of past programs for priority projects moved 

15           into this capital program.  A delay on these 

16           complicated projects is not unusual.  

17                  So I think what we need to look at is 

18           at least, at a minimum, reappropriating the 

19           money that's been made available in this 

20           budget.  And then the other thing that we'd 

21           look at is, you know -- and the biggest 

22           thing -- is the cost, because a deficient 

23           bridge is 16 times more expensive to rehab -- 

24           excuse me, pavement, in order to rehab, than 


                                                                   501

 1           if it's kept in a state of good repair.  

 2                  So when we have 40 percent of our 

 3           pavements going into --

 4                  (Time clock alarm.) 

 5                  MR. HIFFA:  I apologize.  So -- but my 

 6           request is the same as theirs:  400 million, 

 7           250 million for the locals.  

 8                  Thank you.  

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

10           Thank you.  All right.  Do we -- we will 

11           start with Member Durso, please.  

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO:  Thank you, 

13           Chairman.  And thank everybody for being here 

14           and testifying today.  

15                  Walter, you had spoke specifically 

16           about that everybody's kind of in agreement 

17           with the crumbling infrastructure, the 

18           bridges, the pavement, inflation, the amount 

19           of money that's set up in the five-year 

20           capital plan.  

21                  Do any of you believe that the 

22           projects and what's meant to be reached over 

23           the past -- you know, over that five-year 

24           time span -- can be reached?  


                                                                   502

 1                  MR. PACHOLCZAK:  Yeah.  I mean, I 

 2           think that -- listen, it's going to be up to 

 3           the Governor and the Legislature to make that 

 4           commitment over the final couple of years 

 5           here to make sure that projects are done on 

 6           time.  

 7                  It's also our responsibility as a 

 8           trade association and as participants here to 

 9           also help out the DOT, as an example, to try 

10           get some more federal dollars for a project 

11           such as the Livingstone Avenue Bridge here, 

12           which is a $400 million project.  That should 

13           be a federal responsibility.  I know DOT has 

14           applied for funding, and they will reapply 

15           for funding again.  

16                  And we are also on Capitol Hill with 

17           AGC of America fighting to make sure that 

18           New York gets its fair share.  Despite 

19           what -- some of the rhetoric you hear in 

20           Washington, we have a good -- we have a very 

21           strong congressional delegation led by 

22           Senator Schumer, Congresswoman Stefanik, and 

23           Congressman Jeffries, to make sure that we 

24           get the job done here for New York.  


                                                                   503

 1                  So it can be done.  It's going to take 

 2           some time.  

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO:  So you believe 

 4           that without additional resources added to 

 5           it, as you were saying, do you think they 

 6           could do it under the current -- with the 

 7           current resources that are funding now?  Can 

 8           it be done?  Would you need additional 

 9           resources?  

10                  MR. PACHOLCZAK:  I don't see how you 

11           do it in a regular household budget if you 

12           have 20 percent less to spend over the course 

13           of five years than what -- the money has to 

14           come from somewhere.  Unless then you're 

15           going to maybe eat a little less better, or 

16           you might be able to put off some repairs.  

17                  But the longer we put off these 

18           repairs, to Fred's point, with bridge decks 

19           and other things, the cost just -- it 

20           combines and multiplies, and you have a much 

21           bigger problem on your hands down the road.  

22           Which then we all will be voting on two years 

23           from now, four years from now, or however 

24           long you're here.  


                                                                   504

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO:  Agreed.  So is 

 2           there a specific number, as opposed to when 

 3           it comes to money or a percentage?  Or is it 

 4           the rate of inflation that you think that it 

 5           needs to be -- the resources need to go up to 

 6           keep up with inflation?  

 7                  Does anybody -- anybody can answer.  

 8                  MR. PACHOLCZAK:  Yes, sir.  Yes, sir.  

 9                  And we think that number is the 

10           $400 million number.  You know, that's 

11           something that we look -- we look -- for this 

12           year?  

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO:  For this year.  

14                  MR. PACHOLCZAK:  For this year alone?  

15           That represents 20 percent of the core 

16           budget, actually, so you get that 20 percent 

17           back.  And we have some work to do, though.  

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO:  Okay.  Anybody 

19           else want to jump in?  I have 26 seconds.  

20           You can all jump in if you'd like.  

21                  MR. HIFFA:  What Walter said.

22                  (Laughter.) 

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO:  Oh, okay.  What 

24           Walter said?  Okay, I'll go with that.  Thank 


                                                                   505

 1           you, everybody.  I appreciate it.  

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator Tim 

 3           Kennedy.  

 4                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Gentlemen, thank you 

 5           so much.  It's great to see you all.  Thank 

 6           you for your leadership.  You have been 

 7           consistent in your messaging.  

 8                  You know, we've had great 

 9           accomplishments here in increasing funds at 

10           every level, whether it's been capital funds, 

11           whether it's been the CHIPS funds, whether 

12           it's been -- record levels -- whether it's 

13           been the State Touring Routes, new program.  

14           You know, we're very, very pleased with the 

15           work that we've done over many years with 

16           you, so thank you all.  

17                  Obviously this is a very important 

18           moment, and I want to just get into, in a 

19           very short time here -- you've already said 

20           it a couple of times, but drill into that  

21           400 million and the importance of that.  

22                  We know, number one, it's capital, so 

23           we can accommodate that under our bonding 

24           ceiling.  And, you know, look at -- we've put 


                                                                   506

 1           forward a number in the past that was 

 2           five times as high as that number to 

 3           accommodate the inflation.  But 400 million 

 4           is the number that we need to push for, you 

 5           heard me mention it earlier; you're 

 6           mentioning it now.  Talk about the importance 

 7           of that, please.  

 8                  MR. HIFFA:  Yeah, I think -- and I 

 9           would look at it that the 400 million, as 

10           Walter said, is basically the 20 percent on 

11           the existing core.  But again, you have a 

12           record amount of priority projects.  

13                  The commissioner talked about the 

14           Livingston Bridge, and I think it's a great 

15           thing DOT is doing.  The feds have come up 

16           with rail grant money that she's competing 

17           now for for that 400 million for the bridge.  

18           She's going to apply -- I talked to her 

19           yesterday.  She's applying for another round.  

20           That's 400 million that you have in your 

21           budget already that hopefully there will be a 

22           new revenue source for, for her to move 

23           forward with it.  

24                  So, you know, the concern that we 


                                                                   507

 1           would have is that -- use the existing 

 2           appropriation authorities on top of them 

 3           going after that money that we're losing for 

 4           the inflation, but we can't wait till the 

 5           third and fourth year to do it.  Because 

 6           we're losing more to inflation.  Because 

 7           inflation has slowed down, but you're still 

 8           paying more than you were when we -- when you 

 9           developed this plan, significantly more.  

10                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  I want to get to -- 

11           thank you.  Just short on time here; thank 

12           you for that, Fred -- CHIPS funding.  

13                  You know, we know how important this 

14           is for local roads.  Again, our conference, 

15           working with the Assembly -- the Democratic 

16           Conference, Majority Leader Andrea 

17           Stewart-Cousins made it a priority for 

18           increasing CHIPS funding in the record 

19           levels, and then we built on that last year.  

20                  Can you just talk to the importance of 

21           the need for CHIPS funding?  

22                  MR. HALLBERG:  The record levels, it 

23           helps.  But with the inflation, you're not 

24           gaining and getting ahead.  You're still 


                                                                   508

 1           going to be behind, with what we do and the 

 2           costs of everything that -- 

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

 5           Thank you.  

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Assembly?  

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Yes.  

 8                  Member Palmesano, please.  

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Yes -- (mic 

10           off; inaudible.)  First, I wanted to say 

11           thank you to you, gentlemen, and all your 

12           members around the state for what you do each 

13           and every day in our local communities to 

14           help improve our local infrastructure and 

15           roads, bridges, and culverts.  

16                  I also want to thank you for your 

17           annual advocacy, for coming up here to remind 

18           the Governor and us in the Legislature how 

19           important a program like CHIPS is to your 

20           operations and the impact that it has.  

21                  And Senator Kennedy mentioned the 

22           importance of CHIPS, and I know you talked 

23           about -- you were talking about how, you 

24           know, the inflationary increases and things 


                                                                   509

 1           like that for your diesel and your asphalt 

 2           and things of that nature, are impacting 

 3           those operations and eating into that.  

 4                  Can you talk a little bit about that?  

 5           And also like for your members, you know, is 

 6           there something you could present to us 

 7           showing like what percentage of your 

 8           municipal budgets are impacted by CHIPS as a 

 9           percentage of your transportation budgets as 

10           well?  

11                  MR. HALLBERG:  Yeah.  A lot of the 

12           towns, that's their only money, is CHIPS.  

13           With it being a reimbursement program, they 

14           spend what they have and then they get it 

15           back to run the rest of their budget -- the 

16           CHIPS money for their roads.  And with the 

17           inflation and even the cost of new equipment, 

18           which you can purchase -- and that has, you 

19           know, more than doubled in the last few 

20           years --

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  And how does 

22           that -- 

23                  MR. HALLBERG:  -- trucks and -- you 

24           know, it puts a burden on the local 


                                                                   510

 1           taxpayers.  

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  And how much 

 3           of a negative impact is the $60 million 

 4           proposed cut by the Governor going to do to 

 5           your local communities and your local 

 6           taxpayers and your ability to do work?  

 7                  MR. SMITH:  I just think that CHIPS is 

 8           the lifeblood of many municipalities all 

 9           across New York State.  We all receive CHIPS.  

10           Inflation is taking a big part of that, but 

11           also the crumbling infrastructure, the 

12           maintenance of large culverts and bridges and 

13           smaller bridges and things like that that the 

14           towns have to deal with.  

15                  It's really a great program in 

16           New York State, the ability to receive the 

17           funding every year, roll it over but not roll 

18           it over, allows us to use it every year -- it 

19           goes right back into the infrastructure and 

20           an increase in the condition of our roads and 

21           bridges.  

22                  Like Greg said, a lot of the smaller 

23           towns, that is their only highway budget.  

24           Without it, it would be -- it would certainly 


                                                                   511

 1           be going backwards.  

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  And I think 

 3           you used a good word, lifeblood.  That's 

 4           also -- CHIPS is the lifeblood of our upstate 

 5           rural communities, our local transportation 

 6           projects.  Just like the MTA is the lifeblood 

 7           of the downstate transportation network.  We 

 8           should fund it.  

 9                  But when we see increases in the MTA 

10           and don't see the parity with our upstate 

11           roads and bridges when the five-year MTA 

12           capital plan is 52 billion but the DOT 

13           capital plan is 32 billion, where's the 

14           parity?  And this cut could be devastating to 

15           you and hurtful for what you do.  

16                  MR. SMITH:  Agreed.  Thank you.  

17                  MR. HALLBERG:  Yes.  

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you. 

19                  Senator Tom O'Mara.  

20                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you.  

21                  Good evening, gentlemen.  Thank you 

22           all for being here.  Appreciate your 

23           testimony.  You certainly have my full 

24           support and sympathies for where we are in 


                                                                   512

 1           this budget process right now.  

 2                  Jeff, I just wanted to give you an 

 3           opportunity -- you were cut off at the end of 

 4           your testimony talking about some 

 5           recommendations, changes to bidding 

 6           requirements, thresholds.  If you want to get 

 7           a chance to add, give us that, please.  

 8                  MR. SMITH:  Appreciate that, thank 

 9           you.  

10                  You know, for years the threshold of 

11           CHIPS was $100,000, and we were able to make 

12           it increase up to $350,000.  When it was 

13           increased to $350,000, the price of blacktop 

14           per ton was $40 a ton.  It's now $80 a ton.  

15           If you were able to do, with 350,000, three 

16           miles of road, we can only do a mile and a 

17           half now.  

18                  So that whole three miles needs to get 

19           done.  And that's why we're here asking to 

20           increase the threshold or take it away 

21           altogether.  It would really be a great help 

22           to all of us to allow us to do our job better 

23           and better spend the limited funds that we 

24           have.  Thank you.  


                                                                   513

 1                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Okay.  Thank you.  

 2           Thank you all.  

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  All right.  

 4                  Member Otis, please.  

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you.  

 6                  And thank you all for your testimony.  

 7           I read all of your testimony in advance of 

 8           today, and what you all provide that is so 

 9           valuable are the metrics that make the case 

10           for why we need to sustain and increase this 

11           funding.  

12                  One of the things mentioned in some of 

13           your testimony was the fact that if you defer 

14           maintenance, the cost goes up, if you defer 

15           repairs.  And that's something I learned when 

16           I used to be a local official.  

17                  I'd like to get any of your comments 

18           about another factor, which is weather, 

19           extreme storms.  Many of the bridges that are 

20           being rebuilt in communities I represent are 

21           not just being rebuilt, they're being 

22           redesigned for resiliency -- which adds cost 

23           and expense, but means they're going to 

24           survive the next storm.  


                                                                   514

 1                  Can you -- anyone want to weigh in in 

 2           terms of that factor, in terms of the need 

 3           for this kind of funding?  Because it's not 

 4           just replacing what we have, it's upgrading 

 5           to deal with increased deterioration because 

 6           of weather.  

 7                  MR. SMITH:  Yeah, I can start real 

 8           quick, if somebody else wants to join in.  

 9                  But I think that as a rule, anytime 

10           you're replacing a culvert or a box culvert 

11           all the way up, in big and small, you're 

12           always going to really look at the area and 

13           see what kind of history is in the area, if 

14           there's been any kind of flooding, upstream 

15           and downstream as well.  

16                  What we really do is upsize.  And 

17           there's a lot of resources that tell us the 

18           right correct size that it should be based 

19           on, you know, the HEC analysis and the 

20           watershed that reaches that point and the 

21           road where it needs to cross.  

22                  I think that the recent storms are 

23           real.  It's definitely more focused.  

24           Microbursts come across.  Sometimes when it 


                                                                   515

 1           hits you, you're the one and only that has to 

 2           bear the brunt of the storm.  I know 

 3           Warren County just received some really harsh 

 4           weather, and they're under the gun to replace 

 5           some large culverts presently.  

 6                  It does happen.  It's very focused.  

 7           And when it happens to you, you don't feel 

 8           very lucky.  Sometimes it misses you and you 

 9           feel lucky, but in the end you have to repair 

10           it.  The size is really determined by what we 

11           feel is necessary and will sustain the next 

12           storm, it's based on that.  

13                  That's pretty much all I had to say.  

14           Thanks.  

15                  MR. PACHOLCZAK:  Yeah, I just want to 

16           add that the Governor has built resiliency 

17           into the DOT capital program, and we're 

18           grateful for that.  

19                  The thing you do have to remember 

20           about building resiliency -- and it does cost 

21           more money -- I think that we're also looking 

22           at potentially some culvert money in the 

23           Environmental Bond Act funding which should 

24           be released -- it's starting to be released 


                                                                   516

 1           now, and hopefully a little bit more next 

 2           year -- this year, I'm sorry.  

 3                  Fred?  

 4                  MR. HIFFA:  No, just quickly, though, 

 5           one of the other things that the report helps 

 6           us look at is -- is that bridge decking that 

 7           we were talking about.  Because you look at 

 8           it, in about 2.5 million square feet, a 

 9           little over half of that was local bridges.  

10                  Now, when you look as the percentage, 

11           though, local bridges are a third of the deck 

12           space of state bridges.  So they're declining 

13           a lot faster than those state bridges.  

14                  Thank you.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you very 

17           much.  And a special shout-out to 

18           John Cooney, who does a great job in our 

19           region.  So thank you.  

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

21           Shimsky, please.  

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Thank you, 

23           Mr. Chairman.  

24                  Mr. Hiffa, would you go back to the 


                                                                   517

 1           end of your original testimony and complete 

 2           your thought on the metrics on how much money 

 3           you end up wasting if you defer maintenance?  

 4                  MR. HIFFA:  Yeah.  So on a bridge, 

 5           it's about five times the cost if you keep it 

 6           in a state of good repair.  Going to poor -- 

 7           which again, we have a -- 26 percent of our 

 8           bridges deficient.  On pavements, which we're 

 9           40 percent deficient, it's 16 times.  These 

10           are DOT's numbers.  

11                  You know, it is a huge cost to do this 

12           deferment of maintenance.  It's tragic.  

13                  I also wanted to add, so just to 

14           reinforce, though, it was 400 million on the 

15           increase and 250 for the local.  So it's on 

16           that too, so -- thank you.  

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Okay.  And of 

18           course those numbers don't include personal 

19           injury and wrongful death settlements.  

20                  The second thing on CHIPS, 

21           Mr. Hallberg, your point about rural 

22           communities is very well taken.  But no one 

23           should underestimate the importance of CHIPS 

24           to suburban areas like mine, like 


                                                                   518

 1           Mr. Cooney's.  And BRIDGE NY as well.  We 

 2           have a big bridge in Tarrytown that is going 

 3           to be ruinous for the village to fund if it 

 4           does not -- or has not gotten enough 

 5           BRIDGE NY funding.  

 6                  CHIPS and BRIDGE NY are really for 

 7           everybody, and that's why it's so important 

 8           to raise them.  If anyone wants to comment, 

 9           you've got a minute twenty-seven.  

10                  MR. COONEY:  It goes back to you have 

11           to stay up on these things.  And the villages 

12           and towns, the cost of their infrastructure 

13           has gone up just like anyone else.  And in 

14           many situations, the condition of their 

15           infrastructure is worse as well.  So if you 

16           cut that funding, you're only making what is 

17           not a good problem a much more expensive 

18           problem.  

19                  And some of the smaller -- BRIDGE NY 

20           is a great program, but some of the smaller 

21           municipalities have a difficult time 

22           participating in it.  They need that help.  

23           But that -- someone said it earlier, it truly 

24           is the lifeline of local infrastructure, that 


                                                                   519

 1           funding.  And it's extremely important in a 

 2           situation where inflation has eaten away 

 3           20 percent of what's going on and the 

 4           conditions of that local infrastructure are 

 5           continuing to deteriorate.  

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY:  Okay, thank 

 7           you.  And certainly we cannot maintain this 

 8           society or this economy if we let our 

 9           transportation and transit go down the tubes.  

10           So thank you very much for your advocacy.  

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Well, thank 

12           you all for participating today in this 

13           panel.  I just want to say something 

14           personal.  I think I meet with all of you and 

15           I'll be meeting with you over the next few 

16           weeks -- sometimes over and over again, 

17           because it takes me a little longer to get 

18           it.  

19                  But I do believe the Legislature has 

20           been listening to you over the last few 

21           years, not only in the Assembly but in the 

22           Senate as well.  And so we take what you're 

23           telling us to heart, and let's see what we 

24           can do in this budget.  


                                                                   520

 1                  I thank you all for being here.  Thank 

 2           you for your presence.  

 3                  MR. COONEY:  Thank you very much.  

 4                  MR. HIFFA:  Thank you.  

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 6           much.  

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Next we have 

 8           our last panel, Panel D.  Panel D:  

 9           Adirondack Council, AdkAction, New York 

10           Aviation Managers Association, Putnam County, 

11           and New York Construction Materials 

12           Association.  Please come down.

13                  (Off the record.)

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Who would 

15           like to lead off?  Go right ahead.  

16                  MR. CHLAD:  Let's get into it.  

17                  Well, good evening, everybody.  I'm 

18           Kevin Chlad, director of government relations 

19           for the Adirondack Council.  

20                  So you might be wondering why is Kevin 

21           at the Transportation Budget Hearing.  The 

22           EnCon Budget Hearing isn't until 

23           February 7th.  Well, as you know, New York 

24           State's currently facing a budget gap, and 


                                                                   521

 1           even larger budget gaps in outyear 

 2           projections.  So the Adirondack Council would 

 3           like to highlight a costly overused expense 

 4           in New York's budget where we think taxpayers 

 5           can save money:  Road salt.  

 6                  Before we explore this even further, I 

 7           want to be clear.  Our staff live in the 

 8           Adirondack Park and commute long distances.  

 9           We'll be the first to state that no efforts 

10           to reduce road salt pollution should come at 

11           the expense of public safety.  

12                  Our colleagues at great organizations 

13           such as the Adirondack Watershed Institute, 

14           River Keeper, AdkAction, the Lake George 

15           Association -- they've all made formal 

16           contributions to the record for this hearing, 

17           and I want to thank them for lending their 

18           expertise.  

19                  Since the 1980 Winter Olympics, enough 

20           road salt has been applied to each lane mile 

21           of Adirondack roadway to fill an 

22           olympic-sized swimming pool.  It all has gone 

23           somewhere.  Runoff from paved roads 

24           ultimately enters our lakes, streams, and 


                                                                   522

 1           groundwater.  New York State's emergent 

 2           liability costs derive from homeowners who 

 3           are finding that their dishwashers are 

 4           rusting and their health is imperiled as a 

 5           direct result of their wells being polluted 

 6           by salt runoff.  And that's coming from state 

 7           roadways.  

 8                  Rust is a hidden tax imposed on 

 9           New Yorkers.  Corrosion is costlier than all 

10           other natural disasters combined, amounting 

11           to 3 percent of GDP nationwide, or 

12           $437 billion annually.  

13                  So salt is costly and bad for the 

14           environment.  Can we replace it?  No.  Can we 

15           stop using it?  No.  So what do we do?  The 

16           solution is a lot of hard work and careful 

17           attention to detail, but we can save the 

18           state and its taxpayers a ton of money in the 

19           process.  

20                  We need to calibrate our equipment and 

21           measure what we're putting down.  We need to 

22           take preventative measures to ensure that 

23           we're not wasting the salt we have and use.  

24           We need to continually analyze the efficacy 


                                                                   523

 1           of our practices and make adjustments to keep 

 2           using less.  And like I said, it's hard work 

 3           that requires careful attention to detail, 

 4           but it can save a ton of money.  

 5                  How much money?  Let me point to the 

 6           Town of Hague in the Lake George Basin.  

 7           Using best management practices for road salt 

 8           use, the Town of Hague has been able to 

 9           reduce their winter road maintenance budget 

10           by more than 50 percent without reducing 

11           driver take-home pay.  They provide same 

12           level of service on their roadways and have 

13           significantly reduced road salt pollution in 

14           their community.  

15                  Thanks for the opportunity to testify.  

16                  MR. EPSTEIN:  Excuse me.  Good 

17           evening, and thank you for having me here 

18           today.  My name is Ron Epstein.  I'm with the 

19           New York Construction Materials Association.  

20                  I have written -- verbal comments 

21           here, but in the interest of time I think I'm 

22           going to leave a lot of it on the cutting 

23           floor.  But trust me, it was brilliant.  

24                  I do want to start out with a quote 


                                                                   524

 1           from Senator Schumer, Majority Leader 

 2           Schumer, one of the nation's primary authors 

 3           of the bipartisan infrastructure law, because 

 4           it kind of sets the context for what we're 

 5           talking about.  "Crumbling bridges and roads 

 6           are a hazard to motorists and impede economic 

 7           development."  

 8                  He goes on to say that with over 

 9           1700 bridges across New York in poor 

10           condition, we can no longer afford to have 

11           the mindset that we'll cross that bridge when 

12           we get to it.  And that's what we're really 

13           talking about today, is we can't afford to 

14           defer any longer.  

15                  I will very quickly cite some of the 

16           statistics which you've heard before today.  

17           My wife's a teacher, she always says "Say it, 

18           say it, and say it again."  

19                  We have 1600 bridges in the State of 

20           New York that, according to the Federal 

21           Highway Administration, are in poor 

22           condition.  That's 30 percent higher than the 

23           national average.  The percentage of fair and 

24           poor pavement conditions in New York State, 


                                                                   525

 1           which is 40 percent, is among the worst in 

 2           decades.  In certain regions of the state -- 

 3           Buffalo, you know, the Mid-Hudson region, the 

 4           Western New York region, the Long Island 

 5           region -- they went from among the best to 

 6           the worst conditions in the state in that 

 7           decade.  

 8                  For higher volume roadways in the 

 9           state, the interstates, and other types of 

10           facilities in the state, New York ranks 

11           46th in the nation for these facilities in 

12           terms of the highest percentage of lane miles 

13           in poor condition.  This is what supports our 

14           interstate commerce.  This is what supports 

15           of course our global competitiveness.  

16                  So what can we do?  Well, you know, 

17           it's clear it starts with the current budget.  

18           We don't have the resources that we need, but 

19           we urge you to add $400 million to DOT for 

20           core construction for this year to offset the 

21           inflationary impacts.  

22                  We urge you to restore the 

23           $100 million that was cut from the CHIPS and 

24           EWR programs.  We urge you to provide 


                                                                   526

 1           $150 million in additional local aid to help 

 2           locals offset the impact of their declining 

 3           conditions.  And we hope and urge the State 

 4           of New York to make available no less than 

 5           $500 million in the Environmental Bond Act 

 6           for culverts.  

 7                  Failure to include these asks will 

 8           result in the state having the lowest 

 9           conditions and actually getting the least in 

10           terms of accomplishments-per-dollar-spent in 

11           more than a decade.  

12                  And lastly, I do want to say, as a 

13           point of personal privilege, having worked in 

14           the Department of Transportation, I took a 

15           great interest that the Executive Budget 

16           included legislation to extend criminal 

17           penalties for retail workers that were the 

18           subject of assault.  We fully support that.  

19                  But I also strongly urge you to 

20           finally include -- to amend this proposal -- 

21           the assault and menacing of highway workers 

22           as well as intrusions into work zones.  Let's 

23           make sure they can come home every night and 

24           see their families again while they're trying 


                                                                   527

 1           to do their job and keep us safe.  So please 

 2           include highway workers in that legislation.  

 3                  Listen, you didn't create this 

 4           problem.  The current Executive didn't create 

 5           this problem.  But let's work together on 

 6           trying to figure out a way out of it.  

 7                  Thank you.  Appreciate your time.  

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you, 

 9           sir.  Thank you.  

10                  Next?  

11                  MR. HEEFNER:  Good evening, 

12           Chair Krueger, Chair Magnarelli, and 

13           Chair Kennedy.  I am Mark Heefner, president 

14           of the New York Aviation Management 

15           Association, NYAMA.  I'm also the 

16           commissioner of aviation for the 

17           Greater Binghamton Airport.  

18                  I'd like to express my appreciation 

19           for this opportunity to provide comments on 

20           the 2024-2025 Executive Budget as it relates 

21           to airports and the aviation industry in 

22           New York.  

23                  As you probably already know, airports 

24           are major economic engines, and the benefits 


                                                                   528

 1           of New York State airports are extremely 

 2           impressive.  The aviation industry 

 3           contributes over $72 billion in annual 

 4           economic activity in New York State, and more 

 5           than 500,000 New York-based jobs in aviation 

 6           or aviation-related industries, generating 

 7           25 billion in payroll and over $6 billion in 

 8           state and local tax revenue each year.  

 9                  Now, NYAMA commends Governor Hochul, 

10           the Legislature, and the unwavering support 

11           of the Legislative Aviation Caucus cochairs, 

12           Assemblywoman Lupardo and Senator Martinez, 

13           for supporting the capital needs of airports 

14           and supporting investments in New York's 

15           airports and aviation industry that drive 

16           economic development, modernize facilities, 

17           create high-quality, sustainable jobs, and 

18           attract private sector investment.

19                  The Upstate Airport Economic 

20           Development and Revitalization Program is 

21           beginning the transformation and 

22           modernization of airports in upstate 

23           New York.  Since its inception in 2016, 

24           14 airports have received awards under the 


                                                                   529

 1           program.  It's important to note that this 

 2           program leverages tens of millions of dollars 

 3           in funding sources such as federal and local 

 4           and private-sector investments that compound 

 5           the economic benefits to the state and local 

 6           economies.  

 7                  NYAMA urges the Senate and Assembly 

 8           one-house budgets to include funding for 

 9           Round 3 of this program to expand and include 

10           additional airports and to increase the 

11           Aviation Capital Grant Program to reflect the 

12           impact and return on investment that the 

13           aviation industry has in New York.  

14                  Traditionally the State Aviation 

15           Capital Funding Program is provided through 

16           two program categories:  the Airport 

17           Improvement Program, which delivers a 

18           matching share to federal AIP grants, funded 

19           in the Executive Budget at $14 million; and 

20           the Aviation Capital Grant Program that, 

21           unlike the federal AIP money, can be used to 

22           finance revenue-producing projects at 

23           airports such as parking lots, fuel farms, 

24           hanger construction, and concession 


                                                                   530

 1           development which result in a tremendous 

 2           return on investment.  

 3                  Unfortunately, the Aviation Capital 

 4           Grant Program is grossly underfunded at a 

 5           paltry $12.5 million per year.  NYAMA 

 6           continues to advocate for a minimum state 

 7           financial commitment of $40 million per year 

 8           for the Aviation Capital Grant program and 

 9           $250 million for the Round 3 program of the 

10           Upstate Airport Revitalization competition.  

11                  NYAMA looks forward to working with 

12           you and your legislative colleagues on 

13           developing strategies to maximize the 

14           economic benefits from the state investments 

15           in the airport and aviation industry.  

16                  Thank you.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.

19                  Go ahead.  

20                  MS. BAILEY:  Good evening.  Thank you 

21           so much for having me here today.  

22                  I want to tell you a story.  A friend 

23           of mine was pregnant --

24                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Who are you?  We 


                                                                   531

 1           actually know, but for the record -- 

 2                  MS. BAILEY:   Oh.  My name is 

 3           Sawyer Bailey.  I'm the executive director of 

 4           AdkAction, a nonprofit in the Adirondack Park 

 5           working to solve problems to help people and 

 6           nature thrive.  

 7                  The story I want to start with is one 

 8           of my friend who was pregnant a few winters 

 9           back.  She was going to visit her 

10           father-in-law on a snowy afternoon, and as 

11           she was climbing the steps to go inside, she 

12           slipped on ice and fell.  

13                  Now, everybody freaks out when a 

14           pregnant woman falls.  Nobody wants that.  

15           And luckily she was fine, but the next time 

16           she visited his house a few weeks later, the 

17           steps were just covered in road salt.  

18                  And that's when it clicked with her.  

19           We salt because we care.  It's our desire to 

20           keep our communities safe, to protect them.  

21           But the problem is what's preventing a sudden 

22           fall is slowly causing our loved ones and so 

23           many more across the state so much pain.  But 

24           it's a slow type of violence.  


                                                                   532

 1                  Now, I told you about my friend, but 

 2           who I haven't told you about are the hundreds 

 3           of people I know in the Adirondack Park whose 

 4           well water has been polluted by salt 

 5           downslope of state highways and is now 

 6           undrinkable, not to mention the countless 

 7           lakes and streams that have been jeopardized.  

 8                  Far too many families find that salt 

 9           in their water has cost them their farm, 

10           their health, their savings, and their time.  

11           They have shouldered significant extra 

12           expense when it's hard enough just to make 

13           ends meet these days.  We have not kept them 

14           safe.  We have let them bear our collective 

15           burden.  

16                  But I want you to know that we can 

17           change, because I've already seen our 

18           Adirondack town and county highway 

19           departments change.  You have not seen proud 

20           until you've stood in a highway garage with 

21           them, hearing about their brine-makers, which 

22           pretreat roads with a 23 percent salt content 

23           mixture to melt snow and ice on contact, or 

24           seen them post photos of their live-edge 


                                                                   533

 1           plows, which move with the road surface to 

 2           lift up more snow so there's less left behind 

 3           to salt.  

 4                  They are so proud of these changes, 

 5           and they're proving we can bring them to 

 6           scale.  AdkAction has the benefit of working 

 7           with 25 Adirondack town and county highway 

 8           departments to empower them with the tools, 

 9           the expertise, and the support they need to 

10           control costs, maintain a high level of 

11           service, and reduce their use of road salt 

12           and sand.  

13                  These departments have been able to 

14           reclassify lines of their budget to infuse 

15           savings back into their departments, and I 

16           believe the State of New York should do the 

17           same.  If our towns and counties are leading 

18           the way, the state should be right there by 

19           their side.  This is a challenge we can solve 

20           together.  

21                  Thank you.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

23                  Hi.  Next?  

24                  COUNTY EXECUTIVE BYRNE:  Hi.  My name 


                                                                   534

 1           is Kevin Byrne.  I'm the Putnam County 

 2           Executive and a proud former member of the 

 3           State Legislature.  I decided to try this 

 4           side for a change.  

 5                  Putnam County is a key part of 

 6           New York State's Department of Transportation 

 7           Region 8.  We heard a lot about that in 

 8           previous testimony.  It's north of 

 9           Westchester County, south of Dutchess County, 

10           and it's connected to both the Hudson River 

11           as well as the Connecticut-New York State 

12           line.  And it is fortunate that it has both 

13           the Harlem and Hudson Metro-North lines 

14           traveling through it.  

15                  Back in 2018, when I was a member of 

16           the Assembly, I actually served with my good 

17           friend and colleague Phil Palmesano, where we 

18           cochaired the Assembly Minority Conference's 

19           Task Force on Critical Infrastructure and 

20           Transportation.  That year we gained greater 

21           insight into our needs for the state's 

22           transportation system and how we can 

23           accomplish more by working together with so 

24           many of our local partners.  And I'm proud 


                                                                   535

 1           that several of those concepts and findings 

 2           that were supported by that task force have 

 3           since become a reality.  

 4                  I would say that this year we will 

 5           once again, as people in local government and 

 6           county government, we'll be asking our 

 7           friends in the State Legislature, seeking 

 8           your assistance to restore funding for our 

 9           transportation infrastructure, specifically, 

10           $60 million to restore cuts from the 

11           Executive Budget for CHIPS.  

12                  And we know there's a lot of other 

13           different programs that are very important 

14           for our transportation infrastructure.  

15                  Last year Putnam County, a small 

16           county of less than 100,000 people, we 

17           received over $1.2 million in CHIPS funding 

18           alone.  That's $1.2 million that otherwise 

19           would have been raised by property taxes if 

20           not for the state assistance.  Which would 

21           have very much undermined our ability to move 

22           forward with our paving program.  

23                  Something I have learned in state 

24           government is that nearly nine out of every 


                                                                   536

 1           10 roads in the state are maintained under 

 2           local jurisdiction, totaling over 97,000 

 3           centerline miles owned by local 

 4           governments -- compared to just over 15,000 

 5           owned by the state.  Of the nearly 17,500 

 6           bridges in the state, more than half -- over 

 7           8,000 of them -- are owned by local 

 8           governments.  

 9                  Putnam County -- again, just serving 

10           nearly 100,000 people -- our small county 

11           government is responsible for maintaining 

12           83 large-diameter culverts, 31 bridges, and 

13           116 centerline miles of county road.  And 

14           again, like so many other people in local 

15           government and county government, inflation 

16           has its toll, driving the cost of labor, 

17           asphalt, and diesel fuel for us to make sure 

18           that we can move forward with so many of our 

19           programs and plans.  

20                  I would say that we have a very strong 

21           partnership with our friends at the 

22           Department of Transportation.  We know 

23           there's limits in finances, but for us to be 

24           able to move forward and do what we do in 


                                                                   537

 1           county government, we're all part of that 

 2           same transportation system that links one 

 3           road to the other.  That's important for our 

 4           hospitals, for our schools, for our emergency 

 5           first responders, for our businesses.  

 6                  We need to work together and view it 

 7           as that same shared commitment.  I just would 

 8           ask you for your support, the Legislature to 

 9           step up again, as it has so many times 

10           before, to put those additions into the state 

11           budget.  

12                  Thank you.  

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

14                  Senator?  

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator Tim 

16           Kennedy.  

17                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Thank you very much.  

18                  Great to see you all.  First of all, 

19           let me thank all of you for your efforts, for 

20           your leadership in various ways.  You know, 

21           we've worked on these issues for a number of 

22           years and have had great victories with the 

23           Adirondack Road Salt Reduction Act.  

24                  I want to ask you about that, but I 


                                                                   538

 1           just want to make a quick note, County 

 2           Executive.  Good to see you in your new role.  

 3           I'm a little disappointed that you didn't 

 4           come in with the bagpipes playing but, you 

 5           know, we'll save that maybe for another day.  

 6                  But I want to ask about the task force 

 7           and the pilots that are currently under way 

 8           testing different deicing methods.  Do you 

 9           think what is being tested is enough?  And 

10           are the pilots being funded at the level that 

11           they need to be funded and are there other 

12           methods of deicing that ought to be tested in 

13           this moment?  

14                  MR. CHLAD:  Well, first off, thank you 

15           for your leadership in advancing the 

16           Randy Preston Road Salt Reduction Act.  We 

17           wouldn't have a task force or a task force 

18           report without your leadership, so thank you 

19           so much.  

20                  Everything is in there, in the task 

21           force report.  The answers are in there.  

22           What's missing is an action plan and a 

23           timeline with clearly set reduction targets, 

24           a game plan.  There's no budget.  Those are 


                                                                   539

 1           the things that are missing.  

 2                  I do -- my understanding is that task 

 3           force members did push to have those items 

 4           included, but those were not ultimately 

 5           included.  So I think there's going to be a 

 6           need to have -- conduct some follow-up work, 

 7           perhaps with the Legislature, perhaps also 

 8           with DOT in partnership, to put that 

 9           together, put together the action plan, the 

10           timeline, the budget, et cetera, so that this 

11           actually, you know, comes to fruition.  

12                  But we've got a map, we've got a menu, 

13           we've got a game plan.  

14                  SENATOR KENNEDY:  Excellent, thank 

15           you.  

16                  That's all I have.  Thank you.  

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Member 

18           Palmesano, please.  

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Thank you.  

20                  First, to all of you, thank you for 

21           your patience and perseverance.  You are the 

22           last panel, so we appreciate your patience.  

23                  My question is for my friend Kevin.  

24           Kevin, obviously you sat on this side of the 


                                                                   540

 1           table as a state legislator where you've 

 2           advocated and voted for funding to go to our 

 3           local communities through important programs 

 4           like CHIPS.  Now you are the county 

 5           executive, where you're tasked with making 

 6           critical infrastructure improvements for your 

 7           community and for the people you serve.  

 8                  So my question is regarding the 

 9           $60 million cut to the CHIPS program.  What 

10           percentage of your transportation budget that 

11           you use to fix your roads, bridges, and 

12           culverts comes from the CHIPS program, and 

13           how would this cut impact your ability to 

14           provide these critical services to fix local 

15           infrastructure in your county?  

16                  COUNTY EXECUTIVE BYRNE:  So of our 

17           about $14 million operating budget within 

18           DPW, Department of Public Works, our paving 

19           program budget is approximately about 

20           $3 million.  I mentioned $1.2 million are 

21           CHIPS, but when you add in some of the other 

22           state programs that are very much driven as 

23           state assistance and local aid for paving, 

24           it's approximately $1.9 million.  That would 


                                                                   541

 1           account for approximately two-thirds of our 

 2           paving program's budget.  

 3                  So it would create tremendous stress 

 4           for the county government to maintain its 

 5           county roads and its commitment to the people 

 6           of our county.  But I also know just from 

 7           working productively in collaboration with 

 8           our leaders in town government and village 

 9           government, we have some large towns and some 

10           very small towns.  We don't have a city in 

11           Putnam County.  One of our smallest villages 

12           is Nelsonville, in the Town of Philipstown.  

13           It's less than one square mile.  They don't 

14           even have a DPW.  They largely outsource so 

15           much of the work.  So every dollar they get 

16           from CHIPS goes into their paving program, 

17           and it would virtually completely hamstring 

18           them.  

19                  And just from that task force that we 

20           participated in over five years ago, I know 

21           that there are other towns and county 

22           governments in upstate New York that solely 

23           rely on CHIPS for their paving program.  So 

24           it would cause tremendous stress.  


                                                                   542

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Thank you.  

 2                  And one other question.  During that 

 3           task force, obviously we learned a lot of 

 4           things.  What was probably some of the 

 5           most -- takeaway from that that you learned 

 6           and that you applied here as a legislator and 

 7           now you're now seeing it back home?  

 8                  COUNTY EXECUTIVE BYRNE:  So I think 

 9           part of it's the partnership that we have 

10           with state government and the federal 

11           government.  And it's really one 

12           transportation system.  

13                  So I heard you, you talk about every 

14           year it's about parity with the MTA.  And in 

15           my county obviously I care about the 

16           Metro-North and our DOT, because I'm in that 

17           spot where we're just about an hour north of 

18           the city.  

19                  But that forward thinking, that 

20           planning and that commitment so we don't have 

21           to fight with the Legislature or advocate 

22           with the Legislature to restore cuts, whether 

23           it's in EWR, Extreme Winter Recovery -- which 

24           should really just be in the base of the 


                                                                   543

 1           CHIPS funding -- but having that long-term 

 2           vision where we were looking for, I know, a 

 3           $100 million commitment in CHIPS funding each 

 4           year for a five-year span, increases in 

 5           BRIDGE NY funding, make sure we index it for 

 6           inflation -- boy, wouldn't that make a lot of 

 7           sense right now with the way that inflation 

 8           has been running rampant.  

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Thank you.  

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI:  Thank you.  

11           Thank you.  

12                  Member Otis.  

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Thank you, 

14           Mr. Chair.  

15                  Kevin Byrne, nice to see you.  Always 

16           a pleasure.  

17                  I have a question for our two 

18           Adirondack panelists.  Either of you can 

19           tackle this, which is in terms of salt 

20           reduction, what has been the activity of the 

21           local governments in the Adirondacks to 

22           reduce their use of road salts?

23                  MS. BAILEY:  Thank you for that 

24           question.  And it's really been inspiring to 


                                                                   544

 1           see what our municipal and our county highway 

 2           departments and their town boards and county 

 3           boards have been able to make possible.  

 4                  There's been a lot of inspiration and 

 5           motivation and a lot of learning in our 

 6           region.  And I'm proud to say that, again, 

 7           25 towns and counties are working with us, 

 8           not to mention the ones who have been 

 9           pursuing solutions on their own to reduce 

10           their use of road salt and sand.  

11                  We have seen some of our town highway 

12           departments reduce their use of chloride by 

13           50 percent -- at the same time, bringing in 

14           80,000 in savings to reinfuse in the 

15           department to upgrade their equipment, to 

16           help make sure operators are keeping pace 

17           with what, you know, pay should be for people 

18           in that line of work.  

19                  These folks are heroes.  And I feel 

20           like they're really piloting solutions that 

21           we can bring to a state level.  

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Great.  Thank you 

23           very much.

24                  MS. BAILEY:  Thank you.  


                                                                   545

 1                  CHAIR MAGNARELLI:  I think that 

 2           concludes this panel, and it concludes this 

 3           hearing for the day.  

 4                  I really appreciate your taking part 

 5           and giving testimony, and look forward to 

 6           working with you all in the coming weeks.  

 7           Thank you.  

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you also.

 9                  (Whereupon, at 6:38 p.m., the budget 

10           hearing concluded.)

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