Public Hearing - January 24, 2024
1
1 BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE FINANCE
AND ASSEMBLY WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEES
2 ----------------------------------------------------
JOINT LEGISLATIVE HEARING
3 In the Matter of the
2024-2025 EXECUTIVE BUDGET
4 ON TRANSPORTATION
5 ----------------------------------------------------
6 Hearing Room B
Legislative Office Building
7 Albany, New York
8 January 24, 2024
9:49 a.m.
9
10 PRESIDING:
11 Senator Liz Krueger
Chair, Senate Finance Committee
12
Assemblyman William B. Magnarelli
13 Chair, Assembly Committee on Transportation
14 PRESENT:
15 Senator Thomas F. O'Mara
Senate Finance Committee (RM)
16
Assemblyman Edward P. Ra
17 Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)
18 Senator Timothy M. Kennedy
Chair, Senate Committee on Transportation
19
Senator Leroy Comrie
20 Chair, Senate Committee on Corporations,
Authorities & Commissions
21
Assemblyman Kenneth Zebrowski
22 Chair, Assembly Committee on Corporations,
Authorities & Commissions
23
24
2
1 2024-2025 Executive Budget
Transportation
2 1-24-24
3 PRESENT: (Continued)
4 Assemblyman Jonathan G. Jacobson
5 Assemblyman Charles D. Fall
6 Assemblywoman Emily Gallagher
7 Senator Shelley B. Mayer
8 Assemblywoman Jessica González-Rojas
9 Senator Jessica Ramos
10 Assemblyman Steven Otis
11 Assemblywoman Jo Anne Simon
12 Assemblyman Robert C. Carroll
13 Senator John C. Liu
14 Assemblywoman Gina Sillitti
15 Assemblywoman Marcela Mitaynes
16 Senator Brad Hoylman-Sigal
17 Assemblywoman Taylor Darling
18 Senator Roxanne Persaud
19 Assemblywoman Rebecca A. Seawright
20 Senator Jeremy A. Cooney
21 Assemblywoman Patricia Fahy
22 Assemblyman Philip A. Palmesano
23 Assemblyman Jonathan Rivera
24
3
1 2024-2025 Executive Budget
Transportation
2 1-24-24
3 PRESENT: (Continued)
4 Senator Kristen Gonzalez
5 Assemblyman John Lemondes
6 Assemblyman Erik M. Dilan
7 Assemblywoman MaryJane Shimsky
8 Senator Mario R. Mattera
9 Senator Andrew Gounardes
10 Assemblywoman Jodi Giglio
11 Assemblyman Michael Durso
12 Senator Julia Salazar
13 Assemblyman Matt Slater
14 Senator Michelle Hinchey
15 Assemblyman Brian D. Miller
16 Assemblyman Tony Simone
17 Assemblywoman Latrice M. Walker
18 Assemblyman Kenny Burgos
19 Senator Bill Weber
20 Assemblywoman Stacey Pheffer Amato
21 Senator Pete Harckham
22 Assemblywoman Yudelka Tapia
23 Assemblyman Brian Manktelow
24 Assemblyman John T. McDonald III
4
1 2024-2025 Executive Budget
Transportation
2 1-24-24
3 PRESENT: (Continued)
4 Senator Nathalia Fernandez
5 Assemblyman George Alvarez
6 Assemblyman Alex Bores
7 Assemblyman Brian Cunningham
8 Assemblyman Manny De Los Santos
9 Assemblywoman Monica P. Wallace
10 Assemblyman William Colton
11
12
13
14 LIST OF SPEAKERS
15 STATEMENT QUESTIONS
16 Janno Lieber
Chairman and CEO
17 Metropolitan Transportation
Authority (MTA) 14 24
18
Marie Therese Dominguez
19 Commissioner
NYS Department of Transportation 213 221
20
Mark J.F. Schroeder
21 Commissioner
New York State Department
22 of Motor Vehicles
-and-
23 Frank G. Hoare
Interim Executive Director
24 NYS Thruway Authority 350 368
5
1 2024-2025 Executive Budget
Transportation
2 January 24, 2024
3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued
4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS
5 James Morrell
President
6 NY Public Transit Association
-and-
7 Lisa Daglian
Executive Director
8 Permanent Citizens Advisory
Committee to the MTA
9 -and-
Danny Pearlstein
10 Policy & Communications Director
Riders Alliance
11 -and-
Steve Strauss
12 Executive Director
Empire State Passengers Assn. 459 474
13
Jeffrey Smith
14 President
New York State County Highway
15 Superintendents Association
-and-
16 Greg Hallberg
President
17 NYS Association of Town
Superintendents of Highways
18 -and-
John Cooney, Jr.
19 Executive Director
Construction Industry Council of
20 Westchester & Hudson Valley, Inc.
-and-
21 Walter Pacholczak
VP of Government Affairs
22 Associated General Contractors
of New York State
23 -and-
Fred Hiffa
24 Consultant
Rebuild NY Now 484 501
6
1 2024-2025 Executive Budget
Transportation
2 1-24-2024
3 LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued
4 STATEMENT QUESTIONS
5 Kevin Chlad
Director of Government
6 Relations
Adirondack Council
7 -and-
Ronald L. Epstein
8 President & CEO
New York Construction
9 Materials Association
-and-
10 Mark Heefner
President
11 New York Aviation Management
Association (NYAMA)
12 -and-
Sawyer Bailey
13 Executive Director
AdkAction
14 -and-
Kevin Byrne
15 County Executive
Putnam County 520 537
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
7
1 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Hi. Good
2 morning, everyone. Welcome to today's budget
3 hearing on Transportation.
4 I'm Liz Krueger, chair of the Senate
5 Finance Committee. My usual cochair for
6 these hearings, Helene Weinstein, chair of
7 Assembly Ways and Means, won't be with us
8 this week due to knee surgery. But we have
9 special guest star Assembly chairs every
10 single day. So our special guest-star chair,
11 doing double duty as the chair of
12 Transportation and today the acting chair of
13 Ways and Means for today's hearing, is of
14 course Assemblymember -- oh, my goodness, I
15 just --
16 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Bill
17 Magnarelli.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I know,
19 Magnarelli. I decided to call you Magee for
20 a second. So sorry. And I know
21 Assemblymember Magnarelli, and my brain isn't
22 working yet.
23 And it's actually technically the
24 Assembly's day to run the hearing, so my
8
1 Assemblymember colleague will be starting us
2 out.
3 And also, for all the Senators and
4 Assemblymembers, you will have many
5 questions, we know that. If you can let --
6 if you're in the Senate, let me know that you
7 want to ask a question. If you're a Senate
8 Republican, ask Tom O'Mara, our ranker on
9 Finance. Let Senator -- oh, I made you a
10 Senator -- Assemblymember Magnarelli know, or
11 Assemblymember Ra know, and we start lists.
12 And we try to balance between S and A, both
13 parties.
14 So with that, I will finish -- I guess
15 I'm officially finished -- oh, one more
16 thing. Ten minutes for questions if you are
17 a chair of a relevant committee -- so today
18 we have Transportation and Finance, Ways and
19 Means. Five minutes if you're a ranker.
20 Three minutes for everyone else for questions
21 of the government panel.
22 That includes -- this is the important
23 part. Because you'll watch the clocks and
24 you'll see the time. That's your questions
9
1 plus their answers. Some people like to do
2 extensively long questions. Some people just
3 like to make a speech. We are in politics.
4 If you spend all the time asking your
5 question or making a speech, you won't get an
6 answer, because they won't have any time to
7 answer.
8 So we will then ask everyone to please
9 to put their answers in writing and share
10 them with both committee leads, and then we
11 will make them available to everyone.
12 But again, every day I get people
13 going, You didn't let them answer. And so I
14 just want to reemphasize, that three-minute
15 clock is amazingly quick, and that's for you
16 asking and getting answers. So think of it
17 all as lightning rounds. And then of course
18 you can do follow-up with anyone who's
19 testifying.
20 Also, we only print out the testimony
21 of the government representatives. All the
22 other testimony, and there's a lot of it,
23 gets put up on the Senate Finance site and
24 the Assembly Ways and Means site, so people
10
1 can read it while they're here or can read it
2 at their convenience from wherever they are
3 in the State of New York.
4 That's the small business side. Now
5 it's yours.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you so
7 much. She took half of my opening remarks,
8 but that's good. Very good.
9 Anyway, good morning, everyone. I am
10 William Magnarelli, chair of the New York
11 State Assembly's Transportation Committee and
12 cochair of today's hearing, along with
13 Senator Liz Krueger, as she has already
14 stated.
15 I'm filling in for Helene Weinstein,
16 as she already mentioned. And I can't tell
17 you how much I miss Helene, okay, being here.
18 Today we begin the second in a series
19 of hearings conducted by the joint fiscal
20 committees of the Legislature regarding the
21 Governor's proposed budget for fiscal year
22 '24-'25. The hearings are conducted pursuant
23 to the New York State Constitution and the
24 Legislative Law.
11
1 Today the Assembly Ways and Means
2 Committee and the Senate Finance Committee,
3 as well as the corresponding committee
4 members in each house relevant to
5 transportation, will hear testimony
6 concerning the Governor's budget proposal for
7 transportation.
8 I will now introduce participating
9 members from the Assembly, and after that
10 Senator Krueger will introduce members from
11 the Senate.
12 In addition, ranking Ways and Means
13 member Ra, next to me, will introduce members
14 from his conference.
15 So far today -- and I'm sure we'll get
16 more as the morning goes on -- we have
17 Members Simone, Bores, Darling, Otis, Fall,
18 Gallagher, Zebrowski, Burgos, Mitaynes,
19 Dilan, Sillitti, De Los Santos, Carroll, and
20 Shimsky. And if I've missed anybody, I'm
21 sure we'll fill that in as we go along.
22 Liz?
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
24 much. I am joined by Senator Hoylman-Sigal,
12
1 Senator Liu, Senator Comrie, who is the chair
2 of Corporations; Senator Kennedy, the chair
3 of Transportation; Senator Persaud,
4 Senator Salazar, Senator Harckham,
5 Senator Fernandez, Senator Hinchey,
6 Senator Gonzalez.
7 And I will now turn it over to
8 Tom O'Mara, the ranker on Finance, to
9 introduce his members.
10 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you, Senator.
11 At this point we're joined by
12 Senator Bill Weber, and expecting others to
13 come.
14 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Mr. Ra?
15 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you, Chair.
16 We are joined by Assemblyman Lemondes,
17 who is our ranking member on the Corporations
18 Committee, as well as Members Slater and
19 Brian Miller.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: I have three
21 more members that have joined us: Members
22 Alvarez, Simon and Tapia.
23 With that, I would just like to remind
24 everybody of what Senator Krueger has already
13
1 said in terms of the time limits, simply to
2 say that they will be enforced according to
3 the clock.
4 I should note that all written
5 testimony has been submitted to the
6 legislators in advance, so we ask that all
7 witnesses please do not read from your
8 written testimony to us. Instead, please
9 summarize.
10 Everyone, witnesses and legislators,
11 should locate the time clock and keep an eye
12 on it. Please note that when the clock is
13 down to zero, you will be alerted that your
14 time is up.
15 Please be considerate and respect the
16 Zoom clock so that everyone has a chance to
17 be heard.
18 Please note that these time frames for
19 questioning include both questions and
20 answers, as Liz has already said, so members
21 are respectfully requested not to commence a
22 new question with insufficient time on the
23 clock to permit a witness to answer. Due to
24 the length of our hearings, we have no
14
1 alternative but to strictly enforce these
2 time limits.
3 I will now call the first witness,
4 Mr. Janno Lieber, chairman and chief
5 executive of the Metropolitan Transportation
6 Authority.
7 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Good morning. And
8 thank you for hosting us.
9 Especially thanks to the Committee
10 Chairs Krueger, Zebrowski, Kennedy,
11 Magnarelli, and Comrie. I also want to
12 acknowledge the rankers present,
13 Senator O'Mara and Assemblymember Ra, as
14 well.
15 I am joined today by MTA Chief
16 Financial Officer Kevin Willens; his deputy,
17 Jai Patel; Acting Chief Customer Officer
18 Shanifah Rieara, for customer-specific
19 questions; and New York City Transit
20 President Rich Davey, who can answer any
21 questions about the recent safety incidents
22 as well as other New York City Transit-
23 specific issues.
24 Now, listen. This is a budget
15
1 hearing, so I'm going to start with an update
2 on the MTA's financial position. What a
3 difference a year makes. This time last
4 year, in 2023 when I was with you in this
5 very room, we were facing an estimated
6 $2.8 billion annual deficit that was on track
7 to grow to $3 billion by 2026. Today, ladies
8 and gentlemen, that number is zero. And we
9 are projecting a balanced operating budget at
10 the MTA through 2027, thanks to Governor
11 Hochul, an amazingly transit-friendly
12 governor, who since she took office has been
13 a great friend to MTA riders. But also
14 because of all of you, the New York State
15 Legislature. On behalf of the MTA and our
16 millions of daily customers, a
17 billion-eight-plus rides a year, I want to
18 thank all of you for setting the bar
19 nationally on what it means to prioritize
20 mass transit.
21 I know people got tired of hearing me
22 talk about how for New Yorkers, transit is
23 like air and water, that we need it to
24 survive. But it is true. The lifeline that
16
1 you provided in 2023 has allowed us not only
2 to keep running service at a high level, but
3 to expand it significantly while also
4 continuing to invest in the MTA network.
5 Look at what we accomplished with your
6 support in the past year. Top priority for
7 MTA riders, frequency and reliability of
8 service. And we've made huge strides on both
9 fronts. Subway service, ladies and
10 gentlemen, is the best that it's been in a
11 decade. And we are raising the bar for even
12 higher performance, on-time performance, in
13 2024. And last year we actually improved
14 frequencies on eight subway lines, cutting
15 the headways, the time between trains, by 20
16 to 25 percent. And we're on track to do that
17 with several more lines this summer.
18 Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North
19 finished the year with a combined 96 percent
20 on-time performance track record. Amazing.
21 And since the operating of Grand Central
22 Madison almost exactly a year ago,
23 Long Island Rail Road has been running an
24 additional 300 trains per weekday. It's a
17
1 40 percent increase in service on the
2 Long Island Rail Road. And it includes
3 robust reverse commuting service for the
4 first time ever, which is really a huge
5 positive jolt for Long Island's economy.
6 To give you context, that 300 daily
7 additional trains on the Long Island Rail
8 Road is almost the same number of trains that
9 New Jersey Transit runs, total, into New York
10 City every day. And we've done this while
11 implementing CityTicket, which dramatically
12 slashes prices on in-city travel for -- on
13 Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North, while
14 also keeping the cost of monthly passes for
15 our Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North
16 commuters below pre-COVID levels. Real
17 value.
18 Customer satisfaction with
19 paratransit, the Access-A-Ride service, which
20 over the years has struggled, has soared in
21 the past year. And we are actually
22 tightening our on-time performance goals
23 because we are exceeding the federal standard
24 for on-time performance in paratransit.
18
1 We've been making huge progress
2 implementing the historic 2020-'24 capital
3 program. Over the last three years we
4 averaged $9 billion per year in contract
5 awards. That's what you need to do if you're
6 going to run a $50 billion five-year program.
7 And equally important, we are knocking
8 out our capital projects faster, better and
9 cheaper than ever before, including 25 ADA
10 station completions since 2020. That's four
11 times the pace of ADA projects in prior MTA
12 eras.
13 And notably, subway crime, something
14 we're keeping a close eye on, all of us, is
15 down 10 percent versus before the pandemic.
16 Not widely understood because of the way it's
17 covered in the news, but we are actually well
18 below pre-COVID levels.
19 All of this has helped us to bring
20 riders back to transit. Paid ridership on
21 the subways is now roughly 70 percent of
22 pre-COVID levels, and it's about 75 percent
23 on the commuter railroads. But these numbers
24 don't count customers who don't pay the
19
1 fare -- and there are many. Indeed, if you
2 include the nonpaying riders, we're actually
3 closer to 82 percent of pre-COVID ridership.
4 So fare and toll evasion do represent one of
5 the principal threats to our fiscal health
6 going forward.
7 The ridership rebound has been
8 amazing, even improbable. Who would have
9 thunk it, given the advent of hybrid work and
10 other changes wrought by the pandemic. For a
11 while it seemed like people would never want
12 to be in crowded spaces again.
13 Traffic on the MTA bridges and
14 tunnels, the driving is higher than it was
15 pre-COVID. Yet we are here. The Biden
16 administration has made infrastructure once
17 again a national priority, and New York is
18 leading the way.
19 We are determined at the MTA to keep
20 the positive momentum going by becoming a
21 more efficient -- this is a budget hearing,
22 so I'm going to emphasize a more efficient
23 and lots more cost-effective agency. Part of
24 the 2023 budget deal with the Governor called
20
1 for 400 million per year in cost savings
2 without cutting service or layoffs. We've
3 actually exceeded the goal, and we are now
4 planning to have that efficiency level raised
5 to 500 million next year. And all without
6 layoffs or cutting service.
7 And we're doing it while, as I said,
8 providing significantly more subway and
9 commuter rail service and operating a new
10 major terminal at Grand Central Station, and
11 while also implementing increases to bus
12 service as we implement our
13 borough-by-borough bus redesign, which is
14 actually going to grow frequency of bus
15 service.
16 But here's the kicker, ladies and
17 gentlemen. Even with all that extra subway,
18 bus and commuter rail service, all of which
19 is accounted for in the five-year plan, in
20 real inflation-adjusted dollars the MTA
21 budget has actually gone down by 3 percent
22 since 2019. Let me say it again. The MTA's
23 providing a ton more service but spending
24 3 percent less than pre-COVID. That is good
21
1 government in action.
2 This is a new MTA. We're making good
3 on our commitment to change the way we do
4 business, growing ridership, improving and
5 increasing service, reducing costs, pursuing
6 transit equity -- these are our priorities.
7 Now, the commitment to efficiency and
8 equity is also reflected in our work on the
9 capital side. There, we're executing
10 projects on budget and on schedule more than
11 ever.
12 Folks, it is time to stop talking
13 about the budget problems of East Side Access
14 and other projects begun three or four
15 governors ago. Please start judging the MTA
16 by what we've done in recent years,
17 especially during the hard times of COVID.
18 For example, the $2.5 billion Third Track
19 Project on Long Island Rail Road,
20 $100 million under budget. The L Train redo,
21 so controversial, three months early and
22 $100 million under budget. The ADA projects,
23 those 25 projects we opened since 2020,
24 $250 million in savings versus estimates.
22
1 The Long Island Rail Road Penn Station
2 Concourse, a $700 million project, on time
3 and on budget.
4 And just this week, we awarded the
5 first contract for Second Avenue Subway Phase
6 2, and we've already squeezed a
7 billion-three, $1.3 billion, and we're still
8 looking for more savings. We're always
9 looking for more savings.
10 Even our approach to how we expand the
11 system reflects this intense focus on cost
12 containment. Wherever we can, we look for
13 ways to expand the system, not only by
14 building new tunnels and systems from
15 scratch, but by squeezing more transit out of
16 our existing infrastructure. That's the
17 strategy underlying Governor Hochul's IBX,
18 the Interborough Express, which would
19 repurpose an existing right of way -- which
20 is mostly moribund -- but to connect Queens
21 and Brooklyn riders, which is a huge path of
22 travel that's largely undealt with. It's
23 also the logic behind Penn Access, which is
24 going to retrofit Amtrak's underutilized
23
1 Hell Gate Line to serve the East Bronx.
2 And we're paying for these projects,
3 to a great extent, with the revenues from
4 congestion pricing -- which you, back in
5 2019, made the law of the State of New York.
6 MTA is doing what's necessary to
7 prepare for implementation of congestion
8 pricing, including increasing service
9 installing the tolling infrastructure. As
10 you all know, we did a 4,000-page,
11 four-year-long environmental process which
12 earned us federal approval and put us in a
13 position to turn on the system, barring
14 further interventions from pro-traffic
15 litigants in New Jersey or elsewhere.
16 But let me be clear. If there are
17 delays to congestion pricing, it will push
18 back schedules of major projects, ADA
19 accessibility, zero-emissions buses,
20 signaling projects serving -- middle-class
21 and working-class people on the A train may
22 not get a signaling project because of the
23 New Jersey lawsuit. So we're hoping for a
24 quick resolution.
24
1 Listen, just in conclusion, with your
2 support the MTA has made huge strides in
3 recent years. But there's always going to be
4 new and big issues facing our agency. Under
5 Governor Hochul's pro-transit leadership, and
6 with your support, we're going to keep
7 tackling them.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: This
9 concludes --
10 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: And with that, I am
11 thrilled to take your questions.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
13 sir.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Close.
15 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Thank you.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Close, that's
17 right.
18 I'm going to save my questions for
19 later. I'm going to call the first
20 Assemblymember for questions: Chair
21 Zebrowski, please.
22 (Discussion off the record.)
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: We'd prefer DOT
24 to also join you. Are they here? If they're
25
1 not here, clearly we can't have them join us.
2 But in general, if you please look at
3 your chart list, it's -- a panel is whoever
4 is on the panel together, that comes up
5 together. So we will have to make an
6 exception now.
7 (Discussion off the record.)
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: So can we
9 call Chairman Zebrowski.
10 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: All right,
11 thank you.
12 Good morning, Chair, and to your team.
13 Thanks for being with us. Thanks for our
14 collaboration and work and the things you've
15 done for the MTA and for New Yorkers.
16 Let me start with a few questions
17 regarding just some of the things we achieved
18 last year in the budget and, you know, what
19 we've seen. First, the $35 million for
20 service improvements -- midday, weekday,
21 weeknight service -- do you have a sense of
22 how that money's been spent, whether -- if
23 it's been spent, and whether we've seen any
24 results from that yet?
26
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, as I said, we
2 have implemented the service increases on
3 eight of the 11 lines that were targeted for
4 those service increases, and we're able to
5 provide much more frequent service. And the
6 key is it's in the off-hours, you know, on
7 the shoulders, off-peak.
8 You know, the system has very, very
9 frequent service in the peak hours. What you
10 did last year enables us to provide a little
11 more nights, weekends and so on, and we were
12 able to do that.
13 Rich, anything to add?
14 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Just
15 specifically, you know, the G, J and M
16 service; C, N, R; 1, 6. And then weekends
17 and nights, as the chair mentioned.
18 This spring we're adding some more
19 service: It will be B, D, J, M midnights --
20 I'm sorry, mid-days and evenings, and on the
21 weekends the 3 and the 5.
22 But as the chair said, we shrinking
23 the headways from 12 minutes, 10 minutes,
24 down to 8 minutes. Meaning the average, you
27
1 know, New Yorker's going to wait around
2 4 minutes now for these services. Which, you
3 know, they continue to tell us that's what
4 they want, more service.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Great. The 35
6 million for safety investments, what's
7 been -- how has that been spent, and what
8 have we seen from that money, if anything?
9 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Yeah, so on the
10 CT initiative we focused on a few areas, but
11 specifically I'll talk about two. One is our
12 gate guard initiative, which is, I think
13 folks know, those emergency gates that can be
14 legitimately used by folks who are -- you
15 know, have a stroller, for example, or
16 luggage, or may be in a wheelchair, for
17 example.
18 But then others use that for nefarious
19 purposes. They'll skip paying the fare.
20 What we've done is deployed unarmed
21 gate guards at those 35 stations, to not only
22 be the eyes and ears in the system, to report
23 things to police if they see a crime, but
24 also to deter folks from going through the
28
1 gate.
2 What we have seen there is a
3 two-to-one payment back. So for every dollar
4 we spend on that unarmed guard program, we
5 see about $2 back in fares at those stations,
6 which is good.
7 Another piece that we've very much
8 been focused on is cameras in our system.
9 You know, I've often made the joke that we
10 have more cameras than a Las Vegas casino at
11 New York City Transit, and we're solving
12 crimes and giving, you know, photos to
13 police.
14 And so now we are rolling that out on
15 our trains. And so we will, for the first
16 time ever, have cameras in all of our trains,
17 we hope by the end of the year -- I've
18 challenged the team. But our commitment to
19 the public and to you is by mid-next year.
20 About 15 percent of the fleet now has cameras
21 inside the trains.
22 So these are the tangible things we're
23 working on to improve not only fare evasions,
24 as the chair talked about, but also safety.
29
1 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: So you
2 mentioned the cameras, so just to stick on
3 that for a second. So what have you seen
4 recently or over a longer period of time in
5 terms of crime statistics in the system?
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: As I said, crime is
7 down 10 percent versus pre-COVID. And as
8 important to your question about cameras,
9 because we have 10,000 cameras throughout the
10 system, both at the fare -- on the platform,
11 spread throughout the stations, and now we're
12 putting cameras inside.
13 What we're seeing is with violent
14 crime, almost in every instance the NYPD is
15 using those images to collar the person
16 within a matter of 48 or, at most, 72 hours.
17 So very infrequently, crimes in the subway
18 system that are not resulting in arrests in
19 short order. So that's been a good
20 investment.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: All right.
22 The 15 million for the free fare bus pilot
23 program, has it been rolled out? How's it
24 been going? Do you have any lessons learned
30
1 thus far from the program?
2 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, we've
3 implemented it. We did five free buses. We
4 did it analytically. Rich's team in
5 operations planning really bore down, using
6 the criteria that the Legislature put in the
7 law, selected one route in each borough. And
8 that has been in effect for three, four
9 months now.
10 It's premature for us to give a
11 report. I think we want to follow what the
12 legislation said and give you a report after
13 a six-to-12-month period, when we've been
14 able to evaluate not only ridership but where
15 is the ridership coming from, what are the
16 consequences through the whole system, and
17 the benefits.
18 So we're going to give an IOU, if
19 that's okay --
20 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Sure.
21 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: -- on that issue
22 until we've completed the work and the
23 analysis.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Sure. Have
31
1 you seen any preliminary data regarding fare
2 evasion with that pilot program? Or is that
3 also something you'll subsequently be able to
4 report?
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: It probably just
6 wouldn't be responsible for me to say. It's
7 too early.
8 But, you know, ridership is up.
9 people like free, news flash. But -- but
10 it's not clear where the ridership is coming
11 from. And again, the goal is to sort of
12 improve connectivity and mobility, and
13 whether we're getting new riders and new
14 connections and people having more access to
15 jobs and education. So -- so we want to
16 study that and give you a full report.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: I know there
18 was some fear of perhaps -- obviously you
19 can't, you know, evade a free fare. But
20 perhaps by having some free, that there might
21 be more fare evasion on other bus lines. And
22 perhaps that would be the part of the
23 subsequent report?
24 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. I think --
32
1 you know, other places have definitely seen
2 that. You know, confusion about free and not
3 free does have some consequences. I don't
4 want to draw conclusions at this point about
5 that.
6 But the bigger picture is we are
7 really having a serious problem with, you
8 know, fare evasion in the system, and we're
9 trying to deal with it in a responsible way
10 that addressed equity as well as, you know,
11 making sure people understand they have to
12 pay the fare.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: The automated
14 bus lane enforcement that was instituted, the
15 additional cameras, how's that been going?
16 How many? Has there been an impact on
17 speeds? Tickets, how many tickets?
18 Recidivism? Anything broadly on that we can
19 report?
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, not yet. But
21 I'll let the man who's gone out and given
22 some of those tickets talk about it.
23 Rich?
24 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Thank you,
33
1 Chair.
2 So, you know, as you know, the
3 legislation kicks in in May, so we've been
4 preparing for that moment. And what we've
5 been calling this is a transition from ABLE,
6 which is Automated Bus Lane Enforcement, to
7 the powers that you gave us, which is to not
8 only ticket cars that are parked in bus
9 lanes -- and appropriately, there are
10 instances when it is appropriate to be in a
11 bus lane, but a lot of people don't follow
12 that; parked in bus stops, which is frankly
13 an equity issue -- you know, a lot of our
14 customers who are disabled or elderly need to
15 get to that curb, and we have cars in the
16 way; and then also double-parked cars and
17 cars parked in bike lanes.
18 All of that we will be prepared to
19 roll out. We'll be on 14 routes, about
20 600 buses, as we grow the program.
21 On the recidivism rate, the good news
22 is that behavior changes. So the ABLE
23 enforcement we've had the last few years,
24 80 percent of folks who get a ticket do not
34
1 get a second ticket. And an additional
2 9 percent who get a second ticket don't get a
3 third. So by the time you get two tickets,
4 90 percent of New Yorkers or visitors say: I
5 get it, I need to stay out of the bus lanes.
6 So we're excited about that.
7 And then to your point, where we see
8 both bus lanes and enforcement, on average
9 it's about a 33 percent improvement for
10 speed. And that is realtime for New Yorkers,
11 you know, the 2-plus-million who use our
12 service.
13 So we're appreciative and excited
14 about these tools you've given us, and we
15 look forward to reporting out on what we
16 expect will be success.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Thank you.
18 Thirty-three percent is significant.
19 Fare evasion. I know you mentioned it
20 in your testimony. Perhaps I missed it, but
21 I have a couple of questions related to that.
22 You know, do you have global estimates
23 for how much you lose a year in fare evasion?
24 And specifically to this budget and the
35
1 Executive Budget proposal, I know there are
2 some provisions related to combating fare
3 evasion. And so do you also have any
4 estimates for how these proposals would
5 reduce those -- the current numbers?
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Okay. Well, you
7 know, fare evasion has grown significantly
8 since pre-COVID. And there are many areas
9 which you as the legislative body are
10 wrestling with where, you know, there's sort
11 of -- we've lost a little bit of rule
12 compliance in many parts of our system,
13 right?
14 So fare evasion has significantly
15 increased. We are assuming that we, with
16 your support, will be able to drive fare
17 evasion back to roughly the level it was,
18 which is about, you know, below half of what
19 it is right now.
20 So we're -- our last report was that
21 it's like $700 million a year. We need to
22 move that, if we're able, in order to
23 maintain progress on the financial plan that
24 we've laid out with you.
36
1 So we've done a ton. You know, part
2 of is physical. We are, as of now, starting
3 a pilot to delay that exit gate that is so
4 much the superhighway of fare evasion in our
5 system, realistically. We're working -- the
6 Department of State has okayed, the Fire Code
7 authorities have okayed us putting a delay on
8 that. People aren't supposed to use that for
9 exiting. When they do, it opens up, people
10 come in improperly. So we're dealing with
11 that.
12 We have the gate guards program that
13 Rich has talked about. We have actually
14 reconfigured the turnstiles -- it's a little
15 technical --- so people can't back-cock, an
16 old-fashioned New York way of fare evading.
17 And there are a lot of other fiscal
18 improvements. We have rekeyed all of the
19 exit gates in the whole system.
20 So we have done a ton. But those
21 proposals that are in front of you are part
22 of our strategy to push back on fare evasion,
23 but also to make sure we're doing it in an
24 equitable way. A first- or a second-time
37
1 fare evader should be turned into a MTA
2 customer rather than -- you know, we don't
3 want to criminalize kids who do it once. We
4 want a strategy.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Thank you.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
7 sir.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
9 Our first questioner will be
10 Senator Comrie, the chair of Corporations and
11 Authorities.
12 SENATOR COMRIE: Good morning. I'll
13 go right into questions and just give
14 everyone acknowledgements and thank you all
15 for being here, my colleagues and the MTA.
16 I'm concerned about making sure that
17 there's a higher level of transparency with
18 the MTA to ensure that we can increase
19 ridership, that we can have safety, and that
20 folks can understand the projects that need
21 to be done before we start congestion pricing
22 that you were talking about.
23 So -- but my first question -- oh,
24 here we go. The mics are working now.
38
1 My first question is, what has been
2 the return on the investment of the
3 $9.4 million in the EAGLE Team which has been
4 dedicated to fare evasion?
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: You want to take
6 that?
7 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Thanks,
8 Senator.
9 We believe the return has been
10 significant. So the EAGLE Team, as folks I
11 think know, are our unarmed civil enforcement
12 agents that we have within New York City
13 Transit that do that, also do graffiti, and
14 also work with the police in some special
15 investigations.
16 But we have EAGLE Team members out on
17 our Select Buses. So those are the buses
18 that you have a receipt when you pay, you can
19 show the EAGLE team member that you in fact
20 have paid.
21 And recently what we've done to
22 improve the fare evasion challenges we have
23 on local buses is to have EAGLE Teams in what
24 we call clusters. So places around the city
39
1 where there are multiple bus stops, who
2 observe their payment. Or then if someone
3 perhaps doesn't want to pay, they're
4 encouraged to pay. And if there is a
5 discussion about that, the EAGLE Team will
6 then, you know, ask them for identification
7 and produce them a summons.
8 SENATOR COMRIE: Do they make arrests?
9 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: The EAGLE Team
10 is not -- they are not -- they do not carry
11 weapons. They cannot arrest. No, they
12 don't. And --
13 SENATOR COMRIE: Then also, just --
14 I've got to keep going because I've got a lot
15 of questions and a little bit of time.
16 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Yeah, sorry.
17 SENATOR COMRIE: The new turnstiles,
18 there's a video out on YouTube showing how
19 people can easily bypass them. When is that
20 correction going to be made?
21 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: There's already
22 been -- there have already been physical
23 improvements to that that prevent -- that are
24 designed to prevent people activating the
40
1 gate from the wrong side. And we're seeing
2 that there have been, you know, deterrents.
3 The numbers have gone down.
4 Interestingly, because there's no gate
5 there, that superhighway of fare evasion, as
6 I always say, we're actually collecting more
7 fares on a percentage basis at that, even
8 though there is the problem that you
9 described that we have addressed, and we are
10 in the process of addressing.
11 But -- so that is -- you know, part of
12 our strategy is to change the turnstiles, but
13 also to experiment. You know, it's been a
14 long time since New York really invested in
15 changing the turnstiles to deal with modern
16 conditions. So that's one that we're
17 experimenting with, we're making some changes
18 to make it better. But we're going to
19 experiment with some others as well as we go
20 forward, before we do a final procurement and
21 selection of a new turnstile for the whole
22 system. You'll see a lot in the system.
23 SENATOR COMRIE: But that particular
24 problem has been fixed or --
41
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: It has been. And
2 there's additional changes coming to that
3 fare array in the next couple of weeks.
4 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
5 What is the -- can you give us a
6 detailed follow-up on the projects that have
7 been negotiated as part of the budget last
8 year that need to be in place before we start
9 congestion pricing, the ones that we've
10 agreed on? Capital projects, primarily.
11 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Capital projects.
12 So I think -- I'm looking at you and your
13 colleague Senator Kennedy. When congestion
14 pricing was enacted by the Legislature and
15 the Executive back in 2019, there was a list
16 of projects that we would get done. I'm
17 happy to go into it in more length with the
18 conference. But I have the list. It's like
19 six pages long.
20 And I can say with confidence that
21 they're done.
22 SENATOR COMRIE: Where can members
23 access that list?
24 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Okay, we -- I think
42
1 Will Schwartz is telling me we conveyed it to
2 the Senate and to the various offices. So
3 we're happy to get into it in more detail.
4 SENATOR COMRIE: All the members have
5 reached it and gotten it? I know I've gotten
6 it. I just want the public to see that --
7 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: We sent it to the
8 central staff, I'm told.
9 SENATOR COMRIE: Right. I want the
10 public to see that these projects are being
11 done also. So if there's a way to, you know,
12 make sure that people understand what is
13 being done, how it's being done. You talked
14 earlier about projects being done on time and
15 under budget, including the Elmont Train
16 Station, which I'm particularly proud of, the
17 first train station in 40 years.
18 But in order to make sure that the
19 public has faith in the system, or
20 reestablish faith in the system, people need
21 to know that these projects are being done.
22 And we're getting feedback from people
23 that -- you know, folks are upset about the
24 Second Avenue Subway being expanded now, as
43
1 opposed to some other projects can be done.
2 But can you speak about why that's
3 being done now, the Second Avenue Subway
4 project?
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, the
6 Second Avenue Subway project is -- you know,
7 people in East Harlem have been -- were
8 promised a subway in the 1940s when they
9 started knocking down the Second and Third
10 Avenue elevated trains. And there have been
11 a series of ground-breakings with Governors
12 as far as, you know, Rockefeller and so on.
13 So we don't feel bad about actually
14 making good on that commitment. We're going
15 to -- we are going to do it. We have the
16 largest federal grant -- we got, from the
17 Biden infrastructure program, a huge federal
18 grant to make sure we can finally make good
19 on our promise to East and Central Harlem.
20 SENATOR COMRIE: That's federal money,
21 outside of the MTA's --
22 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: As you all put in
23 the capital budget, this capital budget and
24 the last one, there's a substantial state --
44
1 you know, piece that's coming from the state.
2 But it is the biggest federal grant that's
3 ever gone for a mass transit project.
4 SENATOR COMRIE: Can you give us an
5 update on the MWBE participation for
6 workforce development and procurement
7 participation on -- in major contracts?
8 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. The MTA is
9 by far the largest MWBE agency in the State
10 of New York. And I think it is, if not the,
11 maybe the second largest nationally. We do
12 over a billion dollars a year in payments to
13 M -- minority, women and disadvantaged
14 business enterprises. So we remain at that
15 level, and we're committed to it.
16 SENATOR COMRIE: And you can send us
17 those specific numbers?
18 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Absolutely.
19 SENATOR COMRIE: All right. And also
20 the Outer Borough Transit Account, can you
21 give us an update on how that's working?
22 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. The Outer
23 Borough Account that you established a couple
24 of years ago finally hit the levels where it
45
1 was able to make investments in discounts for
2 some of the additional toll facilities that
3 were identified in the original legislation,
4 the Henry Hudson Bridge and the Cross Bay
5 Bridge.
6 And we continue to look, as -- and
7 I'll let Mr. Willens talk about it -- as the
8 capital account grows, we can make additional
9 investments from that fund.
10 Kevin?
11 MTA CFO WILLENS: Yes, the Outer
12 Borough Account had roughly 37 million in it
13 that has been deployed for the bridge
14 rebates. And in the last year, we've
15 collected close to -- close to 50 million.
16 So now the for-hire vehicle fees are at a
17 high enough level where we're, you know, more
18 comfortable that there will be an annual flow
19 of money into the Outer Borough Account that
20 can support the initiatives.
21 SENATOR COMRIE: Okay. Well, there's
22 still a debate, and I have a concern about
23 the Outer Borough Account now being used for
24 the bridge fees, which used to be covered out
46
1 of the general MTA budget from the Governor.
2 The Outer Borough Account was
3 supposedly designed to make sure that we had
4 new capital projects in the outer boroughs,
5 not to redivert money.
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I think you -- I
7 think the Legislature has to approve the
8 projects. So we're all ears, and we'll work
9 with you on that.
10 MTA CFO WILLENS: And none of the
11 Outer Borough Account money has been used to
12 balance the MTA budget. It's --
13 SENATOR COMRIE: No, no. Not to
14 balance. But we used to be able to get the
15 money for the Verrazano and the Brooklyn
16 and -- I'm sorry, Bronx and Queens bridges,
17 they used to come out of the general account.
18 So I'm hoping that we can get back to that so
19 we can expand opportunities to improve
20 service with the Outer Borough Account.
21 Which was the original plan for it.
22 I'm running up on time. Just one last
23 question for this round. What can you tell
24 us about the G Train? We had a concern from
47
1 Senator Gonzalez about the need to -- with
2 the G Train work that's being done, they have
3 a concern about the timing. And there's
4 also a -- they're asking to expand the number
5 of cars on the G Train because areas over
6 there are expanding, and the housing and the
7 population is going to expand by threefold.
8 So they wanted to ask about -- Senator
9 Gonzalez asked me to talk about the
10 possibility of expanding to more than eight
11 cars. It's three cars now, I think.
12 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. I mean,
13 we -- we're constantly monitoring ridership
14 and always looking at -- if you have a
15 capacity issue, we will add cars, absolutely.
16 But the G Train issue that you raise
17 has to do, I think -- in some people's minds
18 it has to do with shutdown, the work that --
19 you know, to do -- the signals on the G Train
20 are from Franklin Roosevelt's era. They are
21 really old. And it inhibits reliability
22 dramatically. We want to bring that train
23 into the 21st century.
24 So we want to get the signaling done
48
1 when it's -- the choice is between a six-week
2 shutdown during the summer and 80 weekends,
3 which will really inhibit all the growth and
4 development and vitality. The team felt
5 strongly that a six-week shutdown was much
6 more efficient, better for the community.
7 We have a proven track record of being
8 able to do effective shuttle bus service in
9 that community along Manhattan Avenue.
10 That's what we're going to do. But we'll
11 keep working with people.
12 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
14 sir. Thank you.
15 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: That is a hell of a
16 noise, huh?
17 SENATOR COMRIE: Yeah, it's tough.
18 I'm a slow talker, so this is rough.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Can I just
20 announce an additional number of Senators?
21 And there may be more Assemblymembers by now.
22 We have Senator Mattera,
23 Senator Ramos, Senator Harckham,
24 Senator Mayer and Senator Gounardes.
49
1 And Assembly?
2 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: And we have
3 two more members who have -- are here in
4 attendance: Member Seawright and Member --
5 Jacobson, I'm sorry. Thank you.
6 I'd like to call Member Ra at this
7 point.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you, Chair.
9 Thank you guys for being here, and
10 your testimony.
11 So just a couple of questions. One of
12 the issues that I know came up in particular
13 in the district I represent, when everything
14 was implemented in the spring with new
15 schedules, with East Side Access, was some
16 changes with regard to access to Brooklyn and
17 Atlantic Terminal. You know, the line --
18 Hempstead Branch traditionally was one that
19 went to Atlantic Terminal, and you always had
20 to change at Jamaica to get to Penn Station.
21 So what adjustments have been made
22 over time as we've seen ridership and know
23 what the demands are of going to the
24 different places now?
50
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. I mean,
2 listen. What folks need to understand is the
3 ability to add 300 more trains was
4 contingent -- this was a decision made long
5 before I showed up -- on moving the Atlantic
6 Branch service to the side. Because having
7 Atlantic -- you know, Brooklyn trains cut
8 across the whole ladder in that whole Jamaica
9 complex inhibited the throughput. You know,
10 without getting too technical.
11 So that decision was made. But once
12 we saw that there were issues with folks
13 being able to get conveniently to Brooklyn, I
14 think we've close to doubled the number of
15 through trains to Brooklyn, and particularly
16 from the branch that you mentioned.
17 So what we've seen is much more --
18 much more satisfaction among our Brooklyn
19 customers. Those trains are not super
20 crowded. It's one of the issues we're
21 balancing.
22 There is also very frequent, you know,
23 direct shuttle service to Brooklyn from
24 Jamaica, which seems to be working out pretty
51
1 well. Overall, the schedule seems to have
2 settled down. People have gotten used to it.
3 Much more passenger and customer acceptance.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you.
5 And another issue that I've heard from
6 some constituents about -- and your staff has
7 actually been very responsive with regard to
8 this -- was getting rid of the 20-ride
9 package. I know it was something that was
10 kind of piloted. Are there any thoughts
11 about potentially bringing that back? I
12 think, you know, for some, given the
13 realities of, you know, office life now, that
14 people just aren't going in quite as much,
15 and that seemed to be a convenient option for
16 many people.
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. Listen, the
18 board had a committee that looked at all the
19 different fare issues. And the take-up of
20 that particular -- although I know that, you
21 know, members of this body have heard from
22 folks -- the take-up of that particular fare
23 option was not that large. And we really
24 wanted -- the consensus was we really wanted
52
1 to keep the price of the monthlies down for
2 the large group of customers who take the
3 monthly. And we had to do it all within the
4 scope of the 4 percent fare increase.
5 So the decision was made, as I said,
6 by the board, in tandem with staff, to
7 prioritize keeping the monthly tickets down
8 below pre-COVID levels. And the usership of
9 that hybrid-oriented 10 -- you know,
10 20-ticket thing was disproportionately a very
11 affluent ridership. So we wanted to
12 emphasize the middle-class benefit of the
13 monthly tickets, and also the single tickets.
14 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: And then more
15 globally on the security end, I know we
16 passed some legislation a few years ago to
17 order the MTA to install and maintain
18 surveillance cameras in subway stations, on
19 platforms and other high-traffic areas.
20 How's the implementation of that
21 going? Do you have any data with regard to,
22 you know, how many cameras been installed?
23 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. I mean,
24 Rich, you should step in here.
53
1 But listen, the number of cameras that
2 have been installed, even in the two years
3 since I've been in this role, is dramatic.
4 It's thousands and thousands of cameras
5 installed. And now we're doing the
6 installation in all 8,000 of our subway cars.
7 So cameras are a key to our security and
8 safety strategy.
9 Rich?
10 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: And I think
11 throughout the system it's about 13,000, I
12 think, in the stations -- mezzanine,
13 platform. As the chair said, we're
14 implementing cameras in our subway cars.
15 Fifteen percent of the fleet now has cameras
16 in subway cars.
17 Untold, by the way, is actually the
18 number of cameras we have in our buses, and
19 that's almost 48,000 cameras. So a
20 significant number of cameras as well.
21 And of course, you know, as was
22 mentioned earlier, we're installing those
23 outward-facing cameras for our buses as well,
24 to ticket folks who may be, you know, parked
54
1 in bus lanes.
2 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: And just to
3 emphasize the obvious, that all of the
4 commuter rail cars in Long Island Rail Road
5 have inward-facing cameras?
6 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Perfectly timed.
8 Thank you.
9 Our next questioner will be Senator
10 Tim Kennedy, the chair of the Transportation
11 Committee.
12 SENATOR KENNEDY: Good morning.
13 Thanks for your testimony. Thanks for your
14 work.
15 I want to start by asking about the
16 figures in capital spending, and just giving
17 us an update on the capital spending in
18 New York State. You know, this has been
19 something we've been talking about for a long
20 time -- the billions of dollars that are
21 capital spending through the MTA, the jobs
22 that are created with that. The focus on
23 New York rather than other parts of the
24 nation or outside of our nation.
55
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: You've been a
2 warrior on this issue from day one. And I'm
3 thrilled to say that we continue on the path
4 that you have reminded us that we need to
5 stay on, which is 90 percent of our capital
6 program, both materials and work, is spent in
7 the State of New York. And we want to keep
8 it that way.
9 I would like -- you know, you and I
10 were upstate in a couple of key locations.
11 Plattsburgh is super-important, the
12 concentration of activity there. Obviously
13 Cornell, Rochester, Buffalo. Each of those
14 have major MTA manufacturing and service
15 facilities, and we want to continue to grow
16 that.
17 We are facing a challenge, though,
18 because, you know, Nova Bus, which is a bus
19 manufacturer in Plattsburgh, is a subsidiary
20 of the Volvo complex, has sort of stopped --
21 has announced that they're stopping
22 operations in Plattsburgh. So we need more
23 bus manufacturers in America, because we have
24 zero-emission buses demand aplenty, in
56
1 New York especially. And we want to work on
2 getting more of that activity into
3 Plattsburgh and other places.
4 Rich is leading a national committee
5 that the White House is actually involved
6 with, as well as the Public Transit
7 Association, focused on how do we grow
8 zero-emission buses, clean bus manufacturing
9 in the United States.
10 Rich?
11 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: The only thing
12 I would add, Senator, is that we have had
13 conversations with other bus manufacturers
14 who are currently not domestic about wanting
15 to move to the United States and set up shop,
16 potentially, in New York. But what we can do
17 to facilitate that is qualify those folks.
18 So we can say, you know, that bus that you're
19 building matches our specifications and, as a
20 result, you would be qualified to bid.
21 So, you know, as the chair said, we
22 are looking for ways to continue to promote
23 that competition. It's so critical. And
24 it's a challenge I think all transit's
57
1 facing. But boy, we would love that to be --
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: How many
3 zero-emission buses is the MTA expected to
4 purchase in the next five to 10 years?
5 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: I mean, we have
6 a commitment to transition the entire fleet,
7 which is about 6,000 buses, by 2040. If you
8 do the rough math, we're going to have to buy
9 about 200 buses or so a year to meet that.
10 We put our first order in this -- you
11 know, in the last couple of months. I should
12 also say, too, we're also looking at hydrogen
13 buses. We have a grant we received from
14 NYSERDA to look at hydrogen, and we're going
15 to buy a couple of hydrogen buses as well.
16 But we're also retrofitting our 26 bus
17 depots to ensure that we have the charging
18 capacity. So we have -- we're doing a lot of
19 work. But the entire fleet is scheduled to
20 be replaced by 2040.
21 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I just need to add
22 that this is an area where congestion pricing
23 funds are needed. We went -- we shorted what
24 could have been a larger order of
58
1 zero-emission buses just last month because
2 we didn't -- because of the uncertainty about
3 the congestion pricing money. So it's just
4 one example of how dependent we are.
5 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yeah, how do we
6 improve on New York State preference, given
7 the obligation you have to -- you know,
8 making sure that it's purchased in the
9 United States with federal dollars? How do
10 we enhance New York State preference?
11 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I don't think it's
12 that complicated. We need -- we have the
13 Nova Bus facility in Plattsburgh. We need to
14 get a first-class zero-emissions bus
15 manufacturer to select that facility, have
16 the right business environment and incentive
17 package to get them to make that decision and
18 to choose other facilities.
19 New York is a great place to do
20 business for so many reasons. We need more
21 bus manufacturers to come. This is not as
22 complicated as a railcar manufacturer, for
23 example. We have two of those in the State
24 of New York. We need more bus manufacturers
59
1 in the State of New York.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: We do want to make
3 sure that that Plattsburgh facility is
4 utilized and we are putting people to work.
5 I want to put a focus also on Alstom,
6 in Hornell. We visited there together. The
7 hundreds of jobs that are supported there,
8 the thousands of jobs across upstate,
9 particularly because of the investment of the
10 MTA -- I want to make sure that that is taken
11 care of.
12 And we have prime real estate in
13 Buffalo, at the Port of Buffalo, that will
14 feed the entire -- not just the MTA, but the
15 entire Eastern Seaboard.
16 And so I think it's important that the
17 MTA continues to look at ways to take that
18 90 percent to as close to 100 percent as
19 possible.
20 The numbers support it. You know, for
21 every billion dollars that are spent in
22 capital funding, according to your records,
23 it creates 7500 jobs. We want those jobs in
24 New York. So thank you for your commitment
60
1 to that.
2 How do we make sure that we're
3 focusing in, too -- you know, I know we have
4 to make sure Alstom with the vacancy there --
5 but, you know, on Hornell, on Alstom.
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, I mean, right
7 now, as you know, we're talking about a
8 subway car procurement, a commuter railcar
9 procurement with Alstom, and Hornell's not
10 available because they have it scheduled up.
11 That was good news, in a way. It was a
12 disappointment to the MTA.
13 Listen, the longer-term issue, which
14 is a national issue, but New York-specific,
15 because we buy more railcars than the rest of
16 the country combined, is that we don't have
17 enough manufacturers. We have basically two
18 manufacturers right now that are both
19 capacity-limited, they have their own
20 business issues because they're both
21 international, Alstom and Kawasaki. I would
22 love to see more Kawasaki activity in
23 Yonkers. I would love to see more Alstom
24 activity in all of their upstate locations.
61
1 And I think this is an area where the MTA has
2 got to lead, so we are actually undertaking a
3 major study of how do we grow the transit
4 manufacturing industry to meet the
5 21st century needs of the MTA and the
6 country? Because right now the capacity is
7 too limited if we're going to keep growing.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yeah, and again, I
9 want to thank you for your efforts and
10 leadership in that space. I know the numbers
11 have improved. But I know there's a long way
12 to go, and I think there's a lot of space to
13 continue to improve.
14 And I would just implore you to
15 continue to do what you're doing, continue to
16 make it a priority of spending in New York
17 State, all across the state. I mean, we just
18 have a great opportunity with the capital
19 spending.
20 I want to switch gears here. The
21 contracts that were signed, I want to
22 recognize the workforce that really makes the
23 MTA run. And, you know, I want to thank the
24 MTA for your work in negotiating these
62
1 contracts that will keep the system moving.
2 I know it was a very smooth process. You
3 know, that was kind of a joke, Janno, just
4 for you.
5 (Laughter.)
6 SENATOR KENNEDY: But it was a smooth
7 process for everybody else but you, Janno.
8 (Laughter.)
9 SENATOR KENNEDY: But really, you
10 know, I want to recognize the workforce and
11 your leadership in getting to a conclusion.
12 And if you could speak on that.
13 But I also want to go back to fare
14 evasion, because I think it's very important.
15 I know you've talked about it, you touched on
16 it. But the current scale of fare evasion,
17 can you just give us an update on that?
18 And, look, the proposal in the budget
19 talks about increasing the penalty from $100
20 to $200. There's no simple way to resolve
21 this. I know it's a complex issue. You
22 know, you talked about the gates being open.
23 Sometimes that gate's open for an exit
24 because the turnstiles are broken. Like
63
1 there's a number of different reasons, and
2 then people are coming in. But there's also,
3 you know, turnstile jumpers. I know there's
4 a lot of different reasons that fare evasion
5 is happening.
6 You know, if you could speak to what
7 level of enforcement it's going to take to
8 implement the proposal that you're looking at
9 in the budget.
10 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. Well, we've
11 increased it, but we're not -- we're not
12 expecting some dramatic upsurge in
13 enforcement. We do want to maintain the
14 level of police presence in the system.
15 Remember, the NYPD has a responsibility, by
16 agreement, to police the whole system. Fare
17 evasion is incidental to what they're doing
18 on the platforms, on the trains, as they move
19 through the station. So they're not standing
20 there targeting fare evasion.
21 But we want them to keep, you know,
22 supporting us. Now, just bear in mind that
23 probably there is one summons given out --
24 and they're civil summonses, it's like a
64
1 parking ticket -- for every more than
2 thousand of fare evasion instances, we know
3 from the numbers. So we're not giving out
4 summonses willy-nilly.
5 What I want to do, and what you're
6 hearing from the Governor's proposal, is take
7 the fare evasion enforcement system and to
8 use it to turn people who make that mistake
9 and turn them into customers. So that's why
10 you're hearing from us about if someone signs
11 up for Fair Fares, if they're low-income,
12 they can waive the first ticket because we
13 moved them into that system, and so on. So
14 you're seeing that in the Governor's
15 proposal -- equity, not just enforcement.
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: You've got half a
17 minute. Can you give a quick comment on the
18 union contracts?
19 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Listen, we --
20 there's a lot of noise, but the bottom line
21 is we got -- for 35,000 MTA TWU Local 100
22 workers, we got our agreement done, chop,
23 chop. And it's a significant increase, and
24 it was ratified very strongly. So we're on
65
1 the way to a new round, very successfully,
2 starting with TWU.
3 SENATOR KENNEDY: Okay, thank you.
4 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Sorry, Janno.
5 Moving on. Thank you.
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Thank you.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: You all set?
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Yes.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: All right,
10 the next -- Member Fall, it's your chance to
11 question.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN FALL: Thank you,
13 Mr. Chair.
14 Thank you, Chair Lieber, for being
15 here and for your leadership. And I also
16 want to thank your team for being very
17 responsive to our constituent concerns
18 related to Tompkinsville Station and
19 quality-of-life issues we've had in Lower
20 Manhattan. You guys have been on top of it,
21 addressed it, and we truly appreciate that,
22 including those Access-A-Ride issues that
23 we've had.
24 I want to ask you about something
66
1 that's near and dear to my heart, the Bus
2 Rapid Transit, BRT. I know the MTA released
3 a Draft Environmental Impact Statement for
4 the North Shore BRT in October. Is this a
5 project that the MTA plans to pursue? And
6 has the analysis completed so far indicated
7 that this will be a viable project?
8 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So very quickly,
9 the -- what you saw in this 20-year needs
10 assessment, the most detailed document
11 ever -- much more detailed than any document
12 ever done -- is an evaluation neutrally of a
13 lot of different projects that people are
14 advocating for.
15 The BRT fare pretty strongly in that
16 discussion. It's premature to talk about
17 what will and won't be in the capital program
18 proposal. We are supposed to put that on the
19 table in October. And obviously that is
20 financially constrained.
21 But I do know this. If we fall behind
22 by letting the $15 billion of congestion
23 pricing go, and we start to roll down the
24 hill backwards -- the Summer of Hell in 2017
67
1 when the system fell apart because we hadn't
2 been investing in it -- we won't be talking
3 about new projects.
4 But if we are, that project is
5 exciting. And part of it is, like I said
6 before, it gets more transit out of existing
7 right-of-way. It doesn't require only
8 building a new tunnel. That's a plus.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN FALL: Okay. That's
10 something that's very important to us, and
11 we've got strong support from our communities
12 on it, so look forward to hearing more about
13 it in the future, hopefully if you get it in
14 the five-year capital plan.
15 A few years ago we passed legislation
16 related to the MTA Mentorship Program.
17 Wanted to see what the current status of the
18 program is, how it's been going. And can you
19 shed some light on it?
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: The Small Business
21 Mentoring Program?
22 ASSEMBLYMAN FALL: Yeah. Mentoring,
23 correct.
24 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Listen, the Small
68
1 Business Mentoring Program is where we take
2 very small, mostly construction businesses,
3 overwhelmingly, you know, minority
4 businesses, and try to help them both with
5 training and also the opportunity to work on
6 small projects to grow their capacity so they
7 can move into competition for the bigger
8 jobs.
9 You see I talked before about us doing
10 a billion-plus of small minority business
11 projects every year. If we can build the
12 market, that's more people from those
13 minority, women-owned and disadvantaged
14 communities that can get into the benefit
15 from the MTA capital programs. We use that
16 as a path to growing new companies and new
17 opportunities. We did about 70-plus small
18 businesses projects last year, hit our goal,
19 and we're going to continue to grow that
20 program.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN FALL: Thank you.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
24 much.
69
1 And we'll next hear from Senator
2 Mattera, the ranker on Transportation or
3 Authorities.
4 SENATOR MATTERA: Thank you, Chair.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. What
6 are you the ranker on?
7 (Mic problem; overtalk.)
8 SENATOR MATTERA: Thank you, Chair.
9 It's great seeing you --
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Nice seeing you.
11 SENATOR MATTERA: -- and everybody
12 here on the panel.
13 And I just want to thank the CEO,
14 Chair Janno, for taking these questions. And
15 you answered everything very, very well.
16 And I just want to commend and thank
17 Will Schwartz for doing a great job on
18 Long Island with all Suffolk County elected
19 officials and being accessible all the time,
20 even with me. He answers the phone right
21 away, which, Will, I thank you for that.
22 Lawrence Aviation is very, very
23 important. The site is moving forward to
24 make sure the MTA will be secure in this
70
1 property. And my thoughts, again -- you
2 know, we've talked about this again, that,
3 right, we get the property, there it is, we
4 have electrification, hopefully, in the
5 future. Please, no battery trains. No
6 Band-Aid fixes here. Please, can you, I
7 know, have an idea of when do we have a
8 little bit of an idea that this could happen?
9 Are you happy about the property that we're
10 securing it with the MTA? So Ken.
11 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: First of all,
12 you've been a great leader on this issue, and
13 I just want to acknowledge the spirit of
14 collaboration. I spoke to County Executive
15 Romaine yesterday on my way up and just
16 touched base with him.
17 The reason that that site that you
18 mentioned is important is that it is the best
19 opportunity to create a yard. And a yard is
20 the precondition -- we see this on the
21 different branches again and again. A yard
22 is a precondition for the possibility of
23 growing service. So it is the necessary
24 first step.
71
1 So we have focused, as you and the
2 town and others brought it to our attention,
3 on the possible acquisition of that site.
4 There's an agreement, it's being subject to
5 all the lawyering and, you know, there's all
6 kinds of little issues. We're going to keep
7 working at it and try to move forward as best
8 we can. I don't know everything about those
9 specifics, but I do know that we have an
10 agreement in principle, and we're
11 collaborating with all the other agencies to
12 try to work through the remaining issues.
13 SENATOR MATTERA: Well, again, I thank
14 you. We know how important it is. We care
15 about the environment and electrification
16 with these old diesel trains. So again,
17 please, no battery trains. Let's go and do
18 it the right way the first time.
19 You know, I got a lot of -- you know,
20 questions have been asked about obviously the
21 congestion pricing. People are frightened to
22 ride the trains, they really are. They're
23 going into Penn Station. Can we -- we need
24 to do a better job when you arrive into
72
1 Penn Station with the homeless situation.
2 Can you please elaborate on what's being done
3 and --
4 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Listen, you and I
5 should take a walk together through Penn,
6 because I'm actually pleased with the
7 progress that's been made. No secret there
8 was some elected officials held a press
9 conference two years ago about, you know,
10 Penn didn't feel welcoming and safe. And
11 there is a -- there has been a ton of police
12 activity to change that. The MTA leads this
13 interagency group, you know, there's Amtrak
14 police and so on. We think we've made a lot
15 of progress on Penn. I want to take a walk
16 with you so you feel that as well.
17 SENATOR MATTERA: I receive photos,
18 just so you know, of the homeless that's --
19 that's -- you know, again, I feel sorry -- we
20 have homeless shelters and everything like
21 that. What are we doing to have the homeless
22 go into the homeless shelters?
23 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I mean, our police
24 officers work closely with the social service
73
1 agencies to get folks -- that is no place for
2 someone to shelter or to spend -- they need
3 to get into services and treatment, in some
4 cases, and we're aggressive about taking
5 action on that.
6 We -- one of the advantages of Penn is
7 with that brand-new concourse, it feels much
8 wider open and much less cramped and creepy
9 and disturbing. And we're seeing the
10 passenger -- Senator Mattera, the passenger
11 surveys are showing a much higher level of
12 confidence and customer satisfaction than in
13 the past. I want to take that walk with you.
14 SENATOR MATTERA: All right. Let's do
15 some better advertising, then, to show the
16 confidence. I don't see that. And actually,
17 I was at a meeting -- get it out there,
18 commercials, do something so people feel
19 comfortable to ride our rail systems.
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: You bet.
21 SENATOR MATTERA: You know, and I know
22 my colleagues did an amazing job speaking
23 about the fare evasions, stuff like that.
24 Did anybody look into Switzerland and South
74
1 Korea, their fare evasions, what they've done
2 to put a system in place that's been working?
3 Have you been looking over to other countries
4 or other places that this issue is happening,
5 because --
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah, you're
7 absolutely right. We need to look at
8 technology, we need to look at, you know,
9 management. But we also need to work on
10 educating New Yorkers, and that starts with
11 kids in school who are routinely -- I see it
12 all the time -- they have a MetroCard in
13 their pocket given to them by the school, we
14 have all these DOE MetroCards, and yet they
15 jump the turnstile or go through the gate
16 with pals.
17 We have to get those kids at that
18 moment and educate them about -- and the
19 ideas we're working on is getting them onto
20 OMNY, because they've all got their phones,
21 and make it easy so they don't have this
22 separate fare medium of a MetroCard. So
23 we're going to get it on the phone, get it on
24 the -- and we're working with Chancellor
75
1 Banks and the DOE to educate those kids and
2 make sure they don't get criminalized by
3 having a fare evasion misjudgment.
4 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Thank you.
6 SENATOR MATTERA: Thank you.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay, next we
8 have Member Simone, please.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN SIMONE: Good morning.
10 Thank you, Chairman. How you doing, Janno?
11 I have three questions. What effect
12 has planning for congestion pricing had on
13 the MTA's capital plan for increasing
14 accessibility by prioritizing elevators on
15 23rd Street, where, of the five stations
16 along that street, only one has an elevator
17 on Park Avenue South. And to greatly improve
18 ridership, particularly on Eighth Avenue,
19 which is near one of the largest NORCs.
20 And secondly, train derailments have
21 raised concerns, clearly. What measures has
22 the MTA taken to assure present and future
23 riders of the safety and reliability of the
24 system, especially as we want to attract new
76
1 transit riders after congestion pricing
2 begins? Which I'm a big supporter of,
3 congestion pricing.
4 And thirdly, how would proposals to
5 increase housing production near transit
6 stations impact the MTA, and how is housing
7 growth studied in relation to future
8 operational and capital costs?
9 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Okay. You asked
10 some -- a few questions. I'll start with the
11 ADA.
12 Never before has the MTA built
13 accessibility as fast as we're doing right
14 now. Yesterday the Rudin Center came out
15 with a report and they lauded what we've been
16 doing as we picked up the pace. It's four
17 times the prior pace. We did 27 stations
18 since 2020. No one's ever done anything that
19 fast. We've got 41 under construction right
20 now. We're going to finish 70 as part of
21 this capital program.
22 We settled the litigation with the
23 disability groups, which has been of long
24 standing. And what they -- what we committed
77
1 to do, what they wanted, they said, Just keep
2 going at this pace. That's what the
3 disability community wanted.
4 So the selection of stations is done,
5 with a lot of different variables. We should
6 go talk about the specific stations that you
7 have in mind. But it is done neutrally to
8 make sure that people are as -- you know,
9 people are no more than two stations away
10 from an ADA-accessible station. There's a
11 lot of input from the disability groups that
12 looks at ridership and so on.
13 But we ought to talk about the
14 stations. I know that Penn South Station is
15 a -- you know, one of the biggest NORCs
16 around. So let's talk about that.
17 The second question, the question
18 about housing production. Listen, we have
19 the capacity -- New York is -- the housing
20 growth that has been talked about at the
21 state level, at least the city portion of it,
22 we have plenty of room in the system to
23 accommodate that. And especially with the
24 improvements to signaling and the capacity
78
1 growth, we can accomplish without -- even
2 without building new subway lines, which
3 we're doing some of. So I'm not concerned
4 about that.
5 What we're doing is in the suburbs,
6 where we have great big parking lots, we are
7 working with the Executive on are there
8 opportunities for taking a portion, for
9 example, and building structure parking, like
10 we did in Westbury or like we did in
11 Harrison, so that you have -- you keep the
12 amount of parking, but then you have a site
13 to do a massive housing expansion. That's
14 the model that we're pursuing --
15 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
16 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: -- it's working
17 very well, and we're seeing other
18 opportunities in Long Island Rail
19 Road/Metro-North territory. But I ran out of
20 time to answer your third question.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN SIMONE: Yeah, thank you.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. No
23 more time. But you can always respond in
24 writing, and we'll share it with everyone.
79
1 Because we want all your answers.
2 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Good. Will do.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 Senator John Liu.
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: We'll get to the --
6 I promise, Mr. Simone, we'll get to the
7 derailments at some point.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN SIMONE: Thank you,
9 Mr. Chair.
10 SENATOR LIU: Thank you, Madam Chair.
11 And thanks to the MTA team for joining us
12 this morning.
13 How are we doing on the 2024 capital
14 plan? Meaning 2020-2024 capital plan? It's
15 2024.
16 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. So you know
17 this well. I said in my testimony we did an
18 average of $9 billion a year in contract
19 commitments. It would have been over
20 10 billion if we hadn't had a delay due to
21 congestion pricing of that $2 billion A Train
22 resignaling project. I am, you know, really
23 burned about this --
24 SENATOR LIU: Well, all right, let me
80
1 be a little quicker here. I think your CFO
2 had given me the heads-up before this hearing
3 that your $30 billion contract you had out of
4 $54 billion.
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah.
6 SENATOR LIU: So what has been
7 contracted?
8 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, we could go
9 through it. It's a ton of ADA stations,
10 zero --
11 SENATOR LIU: Okay, ADA stations,
12 which were just shy of $10 billion?
13 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Okay.
14 SENATOR LIU: What about bus
15 procurement? How many buses have we gotten
16 out of the 2500 new buses that were supposed
17 to be bought?
18 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I'm going to have
19 to give you an IOU of specific numbers. But,
20 you know, there's --
21 SENATOR LIU: Well, I'm not asking for
22 an exact number. Like how, roughly, do --
23 the MTA was supposed to buy 2500 new buses.
24 They would buy 500 new buses? They would buy
81
1 2,000 new buses? They would buy any new
2 buses?
3 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: We have bought new
4 buses.
5 Do you want to talk about it?
6 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: We certainly
7 bought new buses, and we'll get you the exact
8 number. But we are spending -- well,
9 respectfully, we're spending lots on buying
10 new buses --
11 (Overtalk.)
12 SENATOR LIU: The reason why I asked
13 about the buses --
14 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: --
15 infrastructure to ensure that those new buses
16 that are electric in particular --
17 SENATOR LIU: The reason why I asked
18 about the buses is there doesn't seem to be a
19 whole lot of attention put on buses. I mean,
20 your testimony so far has focused on really
21 important things -- the subways, the commuter
22 rails. But very little mention of bus
23 service, which is clearly needed in large
24 parts of the city, particularly in what are
82
1 called the outer boroughs -- or the better
2 boroughs, as Chair Comrie likes to talk about
3 them.
4 There needs to be more attention paid
5 on buses.
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So the one thing I
7 would say is that unlike prior MTAs, when we
8 said we were going to redesign the entire bus
9 system of Queens, which serves more people
10 than virtually any other county in the
11 United States, we said we wouldn't constrain
12 it by cost, we're going to spend more money
13 on it.
14 And we've done that, in collaboration
15 with the community in an unprecedented way
16 that was acknowledged by --
17 SENATOR LIU: Let's use the Queens bus
18 redesign as an example.
19 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Good.
20 SENATOR LIU: I mean, how much more
21 resource are you putting into bus service in
22 Queens, as an example?
23 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Twenty to
24 30 million a year.
83
1 SENATOR LIU: Thirty million
2 dollars more per year.
3 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Twenty to 30 a
4 year. It hasn't --
5 SENATOR LIU: In operating the buses.
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah.
7 SENATOR LIU: All right. That's a
8 good start.
9 And then how is the free bus program
10 doing? How is the ridership on the free bus
11 program, the bus pilots?
12 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Look, like I said,
13 it's sort of premature to --
14 (Overtalk.)
15 SENATOR LIU: You need six more
16 months?
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: No, you gave us six
18 more months. And we're going to give you the
19 answer in the exact time frame and process
20 that you laid out for us.
21 SENATOR LIU: My three months -- my
22 three minutes is out.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
24 SENATOR LIU: Can you send a letter
84
1 about how many buses have been procured so
2 far.
3 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Absolutely.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
5 sir.
6 The next member to ask a question is
7 Member Alvarez.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ: Thank you,
9 Mr. Chairman.
10 It is my understanding that the MTA
11 will be surveying riders on the fare-free
12 routes about the quality of life. If this is
13 true, what questions are being asked?
14 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: We absolutely
15 will be surveying our riders. I think in the
16 legislation that you all passed it was
17 specific about finding out who our riders are
18 taking that free bus, why they are -- are
19 they new riders, are they taking more trips
20 or is it just their normal trip -- and then
21 are there fare evasion impacts, as was asked
22 by one of your colleagues, on other routes as
23 well.
24 So we'll be both getting qualitative
85
1 and quantitative data. As the chair
2 mentioned, we're required to run that pilot
3 up to six to 12 months. We are in Month 4.5,
4 I think, right now, or 5, so we still have
5 some data left to collect.
6 (Overtalk.)
7 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Shanifah Rieara
8 does -- Shanifah Rieara runs customer
9 service. We do major surveys of the entire
10 system twice a year, and slightly smaller
11 ones every month. So we're in the customer
12 survey business every day, all day.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ: You made some
14 statement earlier that the CityTicket has
15 been successful and increased accessibility
16 and ridership, right? Do you have a specific
17 breakdown by station for how the CityTicket
18 program is being utilized, specifically in
19 the Bronx?
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I -- I didn't --
21 can you clarify? I didn't understand it.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ: You mentioned
23 today, right, that the CityTicket has been
24 successfully increased, right?
86
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yes. Yes.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ: Do you have a
3 breakdown by station specifically in the
4 Bronx?
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I don't have a
6 breakdown by station. But what you're
7 talking about -- thank you for mentioning
8 it -- is that we have in effect cut the fare
9 for in-New York City commuter rail travel,
10 Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North, by
11 about -- more than a third, close to
12 40 percent. So people are paying five bucks
13 to ride. They're saving a lot of time. And
14 we're seeing a lot of uptake.
15 But we'll give you a
16 station-by-station breakdown.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ: Thank you.
18 So how often does the MTA inspect the
19 infrastructure?
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Depends on what
21 type of infrastructure.
22 Rich?
23 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: At least for
24 New York City Transit, we walk all the track
87
1 at least twice a week. It's a federal
2 railroad standard, so that is applicable to
3 the railroads, but at New York City Transit
4 we've adopted that.
5 For other switch points or others that
6 are used more frequently, we will also
7 inspect them more frequently. But it's at
8 least twice a week for our track.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ: Are those
10 incidents of inspection available for the
11 public?
12 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Are they --
13 well, the actual inspection reports available
14 to the public?
15 ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ: Yeah, the
16 report. The inspection report.
17 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: No, we don't
18 provide inspection reports available to the
19 public, no.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN ALVAREZ: So in
21 May 2023 -- I have 15 more seconds -- the
22 New York State Comptroller reported that the
23 New York State funds that we, the
24 Legislature, appropriate will create an open
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1 door for the MTA to ease debt and build
2 stronger future budgets. Has this been the
3 case? What can the MTA do better?
4 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Many ways. But
5 I'll have to answer you another time.
6 (Laughter.)
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
8 folks. Thank you.
9 Senator?
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Brad
11 Hoylman-Sigal.
12 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL: Thank you,
13 Madam Chair.
14 Good to see everyone this morning.
15 I want to echo my colleague
16 Assemblymember Simone's request for a
17 timeline for the 23rd Street elevator project
18 that we hope we can get on the books.
19 But I want to ask you about the
20 congestion pricing lawsuit against New York
21 by New Jersey. And as you know, we called
22 out the judge, who had political conflicts in
23 that case, and forced him to recuse himself.
24 And now I think it's flipped to at least
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1 three other judges at this point.
2 You know, it was Governor Murphy
3 himself who said he would fix New Jersey
4 Transit or die trying. Can you give us an
5 update and what your understanding is at this
6 point regarding New Jersey's lawsuit?
7 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah, well, Phil
8 Murphy said he was going to fix New Jersey
9 Transit if it kills him, and I'm not sure --
10 he's not dying, and I'm not even sure if he's
11 trying.
12 New York and New Jersey are not that
13 different. We have 80 percent -- both of us
14 have transit commuters. You and the Governor
15 have invested in transit. We have a robust
16 capital program, and you took on that fiscal
17 cliff last year and the rest of the country
18 is just waking up to the fact -- the
19 operating budget deficits in New Jersey, they
20 have not addressed it.
21 So it is disappointing that a governor
22 that prided himself on Al Gore's endorsement
23 has left New Jersey Transit unfunded, for
24 reasons we don't fully understand.
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1 Thirty-plus New Jersey environmental
2 organizations have come in an amicus brief
3 supporting the MTA and the federal government
4 against New Jersey's own lawsuit. And
5 instead of investing in transit, for reasons
6 none of us understand, they've got a
7 $2 billion turnpike widening project that
8 will just pump more cars to the
9 Holland Tunnel, which has no more capacity.
10 So they're creating a big old parking lot on
11 their side of the river.
12 This is a mystery. The lawsuit -- the
13 substance of the lawsuit is kind of
14 frivolous, honestly. The -- you know,
15 there's black-letter law that a 4,000-page,
16 four-year environmental study approved by the
17 federal government is a pretty strong case in
18 that. And the constitutional stuff that
19 they're trying to add is kind of frivolous.
20 How can they toll the New Jersey Turnpike and
21 the Garden State Parkway, collect 40 percent
22 of that money from out-of-staters, but we
23 can't toll our own roads? That's a
24 fundamental sovereignty issue I hope the
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1 Legislature recognizes.
2 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL: Thank you.
3 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So we're
4 disappointed.
5 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL: I hope one of
6 my colleagues asks about the New York Post
7 report that shows that Penn Station fixes
8 could avoid the $17 billion if the transit
9 agencies actually worked together. I'd like
10 your comment. Maybe Senator Krueger will be
11 asking that.
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: He'll have to
13 follow up with you in writing after the
14 hearing, Senator. Thank you.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
16 Giglio.
17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO: Good morning.
18 So the Hampton Jitney is a private bus
19 company in my district that transports
20 500,000 passengers a year to and from
21 New York City. Right now the rate is $40 for
22 a one-way ticket. There's concern that the
23 cost of congestion pricing tolls will add
24 significant costs to the company, which will
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1 then be passed on to those who use this bus
2 service for transportation.
3 So my question for you is, isn't it
4 true that those riding buses are already
5 doing their part to reduce congestion in
6 New York City? Number one.
7 And, you know, each Hampton Jitney
8 trip has the potential to take more than
9 50 cars off the road. Studies have
10 repeatedly shown that motor coaches are the
11 most fuel-efficient, least carbon-polluting
12 form of mass transit per passenger. So why
13 are they now going to be forced to pay extra?
14 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Okay. So the
15 process the Legislature set up called for us
16 to have a third-party board develop these
17 toll structure proposals. And what they said
18 is all mass transit buses would qualify for
19 an exemption. I don't know if the Hampton
20 Jitney technically has been included in that;
21 I'll look into it.
22 But the recommendation was I think to
23 do what you are talking about, which is to
24 have mass -- buses that are functioning as
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1 mass transit be exempt from the congestion
2 pricing toll. I don't know whether in the
3 discussions that have taken place so far a
4 private operation, you know, to a luxury
5 destination like the Hamptons is -- has been
6 determined to be a mass transit bus within
7 the definition. I'll have to get back to you
8 on that.
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO: Yeah, because I
10 believe it was only for bus companies that
11 have contracts with the municipalities or
12 with government agencies. So if they don't
13 have a specific contract for that trip into
14 New York City, then they're saying that the
15 way it reads right now, they would not be
16 exempt.
17 So it's -- it would be good to get
18 clarification in the budget for those
19 exemptions, especially with the Governor's
20 proposal in the State of the State to provide
21 housing around bus stations -- I mean, around
22 train stations, which could become a severe
23 parking problem if all of these riders,
24 500,000 a year, are forced to park at the
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1 Ronkonkoma Hub and then take the train into
2 the city.
3 And there are many housing proposals
4 around that hub, as you are aware.
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. Okay. Well,
6 we'll look into it. But I think you were --
7 we both understand that the goal we heard
8 from this TMRB was let's make sure that mass
9 transit buses are exempt. I don't know about
10 the Hamptons bus, whether that's in the same
11 category. We'll check it out.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO: And how are
13 collections with ADLs going for people that
14 are riding the train that do not have a
15 ticket, that do not have identification --
16 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: The short answer,
17 because time's running out, is lousy, which
18 is why we're changing --
19 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: -- we're changing
21 the system to give real summonses for people
22 who fare evade on the commuter rail.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Senator.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
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1 Senator Julia Salazar.
2 SENATOR SALAZAR: Thank you for your
3 testimony.
4 So my understanding is that the MTA
5 was only able to spend $6 billion total in
6 capital projects in 2022. How does this
7 compare -- and I understand you mentioned in
8 your testimony that MTA is rolling out
9 capital projects faster than ever before, and
10 that's great. But how does that compare to
11 progress that was made on MTA capital
12 projects in 2023?
13 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So what happened
14 was -- and you all know this, but we had to
15 slow down the capital program during COVID
16 because we didn't know if we were going to
17 have to cannibalize the capital program to
18 keep the lights on and the service running.
19 This was all done very openly.
20 So the result was that we had fewer
21 projects underway than we would have
22 otherwise. The first year and a half of the
23 current capital program was suppressed
24 because of COVID and that uncertainty. Once
96
1 we knew we were getting the money from
2 Washington and we could spend the capital
3 program like crazy, off we went. That's the
4 answer. We spent mostly federal money, which
5 was a smaller part than we would have liked.
6 We didn't spend the state money as much.
7 SENATOR SALAZAR: Were you able to
8 increase spending on capital projects in
9 2023?
10 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. So what
11 happened -- I'm going fast -- is we ramped up
12 quickly, which is we're having -- the last
13 couple of years we've had 9 billion a year on
14 average. We would have been, as I said,
15 closer to 11 but for some of the congestion
16 pricing related suppression of projects.
17 SENATOR SALAZAR: Thank you.
18 And I know you spoke already about the
19 zero-emission hydrogen fuel cell buses. How
20 exactly does the MTA track and report on its
21 progress when it comes to achieving climate
22 and environmental goals?
23 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, we -- what
24 we've done is in addition -- I mean, let's
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1 just all stipulate that mass transit is the
2 antidote to climate change. It's
3 counterintuitive, but New York region is the
4 greenest urban area in the United States
5 because we're a mass transit region.
6 But we also have made a commitment to,
7 by 2040, 85 percent reduction in our
8 operating climate change impacts, and to
9 become that much more efficient. So we can
10 track our progress on that goal. I'll have
11 to get back to you on the specifics.
12 Rich, anything you want to add on
13 that?
14 That's what we're doing. We're using
15 cleaner materials, we're using different
16 technologies, all in an effort to reduce our
17 operations impact on the climate.
18 SENATOR SALAZAR: Great. And in the
19 environmental assessment for congestion
20 pricing, there were projections of, just in
21 certain communities, increased truck traffic
22 right? Not overall, of course, but increased
23 impact on certain communities and discussion
24 of mitigation plans to try to address that.
98
1 How are -- how is the coordination of
2 that mitigation plan going or anticipated to
3 go? And is there a status update that you
4 could give us on that?
5 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
6 Senator.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
8 SENATOR SALAZAR: Sorry.
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: He'll have to get
10 back to you.
11 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: At the break.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member Bores.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: First of all, I
14 just want to thank you for running pilots,
15 whether that's the fare gates or the fixed
16 fences. Study after study shows when
17 government does small pilots and learns from
18 them and then changes it, it saves money in
19 the long run, even if it comes with social
20 media embarrassment. And I want to thank you
21 for doing that; encourage you to keep doing
22 it in the future.
23 On the fixed fences -- which again we
24 talked about last year, you committed to
99
1 looking at, and now we have a pilot up, so
2 thank you for that as well. How will you be
3 evaluating that pilot? What sort of metrics
4 are you looking at? And when can we expect
5 results?
6 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Yeah, thank
7 you. So I think a few things.
8 You know, we're picking stations where
9 we have significant camera coverage so we can
10 observe, you know, passenger behavior. So
11 passenger behavior will be one.
12 We'll obviously be doing surveys. As
13 the chair mentioned, we do monthly surveys
14 with subway customers, a small amount, and
15 then pretty deep dives every six months to
16 see what folks are saying.
17 You know, the goal is to make folks
18 feel safer, right? And that's -- and to do
19 it very quickly. I think our ambition for
20 platform screen doors, while we still have
21 it, is much more technically complicated and
22 clearly more expensive. So if this works, I
23 would expect, you know, that we'd be able to
24 roll it out in a number of other stations.
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1 But right now our commitment is four
2 stations. We've done the one. I think
3 Clark Street is being installed this
4 weekend --
5 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: Sorry, if I could
6 just move on.
7 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Sure.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: But the perception
9 of safety being the main metric.
10 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah, that's the
11 real goal, is that people feel safer on the
12 platforms.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: Great.
14 So you rightly point out in your
15 testimony we shouldn't judge this MTA by the
16 old MTA. Your team provided a great
17 cost-containment study comparing what the MTA
18 is doing versus other countries, which was
19 really helpful, and I encourage you as much
20 as possible what you can put out there.
21 There were a number of useful metrics:
22 ADA accessibility costs per station, costs
23 per track mile, costs per power station, per
24 rider. Was that a one-time study? Or do you
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1 regularly track those over time?
2 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: We don't -- right
3 now, to be honest, that was a one-time study
4 to try to do -- what I was saying before is
5 let's stop talking about East Side Access,
6 which was designed when George Pataki and
7 Al D'Amato were making decisions about the
8 MTA's future, and start to show what we're
9 doing now.
10 But it's a legitimate point. We can
11 continue to provide those on a regular basis.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: That would be
13 super-helpful. Whatever you can do and
14 follow up on it of how that's changed would
15 help us just make the point that, hey, cost
16 containment is going in the right direction.
17 So thank you.
18 And then lastly I want to follow up on
19 Assemblymember Simone's question on ADA
20 accessibility. I know you said the
21 disability community is saying "go at the
22 same speed." My mom has multiple sclerosis;
23 I know many in the disability community not
24 saying "go at the same speed," but instead "I
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1 want this a lot quicker."
2 You're doing a great job accelerating
3 it. Could you commit, if you got all the
4 funding that we're talking about, central
5 business tolling in it, to move it from 2055
6 to a little bit sooner?
7 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, let's look at
8 it together. If you want to discuss this, if
9 we're serious about it, we'll take a look at
10 it. I mean, we have to manage the number of
11 outages and the impacts to service as well as
12 everything else.
13 So let's talk about it. But we -- we
14 want to keep up that commitment. And if we
15 can go faster, that's great.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: Thank you.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
18 Mr. Chair.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. (Mic
20 off; inaudible.) Oh, I'm not on.
21 If you're sitting at one of the chairs
22 without a microphone, if people usually who
23 are on -- near the ends on either side, would
24 get up, let you use their chair while you ask
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1 your question, and then you can trade back.
2 Thank you.
3 SENATOR HINCHEY: Thank you very much.
4 And thank you for being here.
5 As you know, I represent the
6 Hudson Line, which is an incredibly important
7 part of the MTA region, and with the increase
8 of severe storms that we've seen, there's I
9 think been an uptick in the need for
10 resiliency and reconstruction.
11 I thank you for always the quick
12 attention to that matter on the Hudson Line,
13 but I'd love to know how much money is
14 dedicated for resiliency, especially on the
15 lines that are right next to the
16 Hudson River.
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Honestly, what we
18 did in -- the first phase of resiliency was
19 focused on coastal surge. You know, after we
20 all learned from Superstorm Sandy, we spent
21 $7 billion protecting the things that were
22 most subject to coastal surge.
23 But now we -- because of these crazy
24 weather events, again, and the continuing
104
1 impacts of climate change, we know the
2 threats are more than just coastal surges --
3 it's torrential rainfall, it's extreme heat,
4 it's sea level rise. And the Hudson Line is
5 in the cross-hairs.
6 So if you look through this very
7 substantial 20-year needs assessment, backed
8 up by the big old appendix, the resiliency
9 gets its own treatment, and Hudson Line,
10 again, again is the highlight in the next
11 capital program we have to find a way to
12 address. Because the Hudson Line is steps
13 from the river --
14 SENATOR HINCHEY: Feet.
15 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: And meantime the
16 embankments are steep and the torrential
17 rainfall keeps creating mud slides, and we're
18 losing the Hudson Line. We've gotta do it.
19 SENATOR HINCHEY: Right. Thank you.
20 I appreciate that.
21 You say in the next capital plan.
22 What would that look like? Can you give -- I
23 mean, what is the scale or what's an -- or
24 what's the plan --
105
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I'm not ready to
2 talk about the dollars. But you have to --
3 you're talking about basic structure. It's
4 not a matter of like, you know, messing
5 around with ballast and the track. You're
6 talking about something along the lines of
7 maybe even necessarily as ambitious as what
8 they're doing on East River Park, where you
9 have to, you know, raise the level and
10 stabilize.
11 We also have to go out and look at all
12 those privately owned embankments and slopes
13 to see if they're being properly maintained.
14 That seems to have been one issue in one of
15 those mud slides.
16 So unfortunately we had to get really
17 good at cleaning them up. I just want credit
18 for the Metro-North personnel and the C&D
19 personnel who keep restoring service on a
20 dime. But in the meantime we need a strategy
21 for attacking this problem. It's not going
22 away.
23 SENATOR HINCHEY: Thank you. No, and
24 they've been great, and the attention to the
106
1 matter is quick and swift. And I think, you
2 know, it harkens back to the importance of
3 that line and connection that we have for our
4 region.
5 So just to be clear, I mean, I think
6 we're going to need a significant investment,
7 I mean just even for the Hudson Line itself,
8 to make sure that that can continue to run.
9 Because without it, we won't -- I mean, the
10 line will be out of service in a very short
11 period of time. Is that fair?
12 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah, I can't
13 project, you know, when mud slides are going
14 to happen, but we all know that is a must-do.
15 This is a must-do.
16 SENATOR HINCHEY: Thank you.
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Along with
18 investments in other parts of Metro-North --
19 I want to say Senator Mayer's in my eyesight,
20 and others. You know, we -- there's
21 fundamental structure on Metro-North that
22 needs to be attacked through our capital --
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
24 Sorry.
107
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
2 sir.
3 SENATOR HINCHEY: Thank you very much.
4 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
5 Assembly.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
7 Shimsky, please.
8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Thank you very
9 much, Mr. Chairman.
10 And yes, Chairman, we're going to be
11 tag-teaming the Hudson Line issues.
12 As you know, we are already having
13 short-term issues with retaining wall
14 integrity along the entire line, pretty much.
15 We're looking at a point where the line will,
16 we can predict, be underwater certainly in my
17 adult children's lifetimes.
18 How are we envisioning the process to
19 get the short-term and the long-term needs
20 planned out and put in the capital plan?
21 What's the time frame, not just on what we
22 have to do but on the planning process
23 itself? And can we take some of that
24 3 percent in cost savings and invest in a
108
1 really robust and prompt planning process to
2 make sure that we can save the Hudson Line?
3 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So let me assure
4 you, again, if you look at the document,
5 there's no single project that -- in the
6 resiliency area that gets more attention than
7 the Hudson Line.
8 So the work is already going on. The
9 planning team that produced this incredible
10 piece of work is actually engaged in what you
11 want -- what you're asking about, which is
12 what are the initial investments we need to
13 do, what is the phasing strategy.
14 In the meantime, we need to continue
15 to invest in the Hudson Line because our
16 friends in West of Hudson, West of Hudson,
17 are subject to crummy New Jersey Transit
18 service on the Port Jervis and the Pascack
19 Valley Line, and we need the Hudson Line also
20 to be able to accommodate them. You know,
21 Chairman Zebrowski is not here now, but he
22 and I have talked about the need to make sure
23 that people can go to Irvington and
24 North White Plains and use those stations
109
1 from West of Hudson as well.
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Okay. As I
3 said, there's nothing more important than
4 trying to keep our train system running. And
5 to that point, one one of the new things that
6 people are talking about in terms of
7 infrastructure is "fix it first." Which
8 means before we start expanding, we make sure
9 that everything else is in good shape.
10 Where are we in terms of basic
11 maintenance with things like tracks,
12 elevators, stations and so on?
13 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, again, I'm
14 not going to go through item by item. But
15 that's all enumerated, literally system by
16 system, how much of those systems are in poor
17 or marginal condition. You know, I'm not
18 going to go through it, but the one thing
19 that I'm seeing is fundamental structure in
20 some of the Metro-North territory, the
21 platforms, 25, 30 years ago they built
22 hollow-core platforms which are being
23 compromised. There's a lot of structural --
24 you know, a lot of concrete spall. We can't
110
1 spare the platforms. We can't spare the
2 track. We can't spare the signals. That's
3 why 80 percent of our capital program is and
4 must remain in a state of good repair, on top
5 of all the good stuff we --
6 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
7 Mr. Chair.
8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Thank you.
9 Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: It's amazing how
11 fast three minutes is.
12 Senator Weber.
13 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you, Chairwoman.
14 And thank you for being here today.
15 You know, I represent Rockland County
16 and, you know, Rockland County residents have
17 always felt like the other redheaded
18 stepchild of the MTA. And I'll explain why.
19 You know, County Executive Ed Day,
20 Assemblyman Zebrowski, now-Congressman
21 Lawler, we always talk about the value gap,
22 right, the $40 million value gap, as we call
23 it, the amount of taxes and revenue that
24 Rockland residents send up to the MTA versus
111
1 the services that we get. You know, we don't
2 have a one-seat ride into New York City,
3 which is extremely frustrating. And then we
4 see the congestion pricing plan coming into
5 effect, and you know, we have a lot of
6 middle-class residents. We have a tremendous
7 amount of cops, firefighters, schoolteachers,
8 senior citizens who go to see their doctors
9 in the city -- you know, people that can't
10 afford and frankly can't, due to their
11 scheduling, can't take the train into the
12 city. Because, you know, being a cop or a
13 firefighter or a teacher, you know, they're
14 in the city and coming out of the city at
15 different times.
16 And for far too long the services out
17 of Rockland have been really inconsistent,
18 unreliable. And obviously, as mentioned
19 earlier by my colleagues here, they've been
20 unsafe. You know, especially when you get
21 into the city, whether it's real or
22 perceived -- and I know you had indicated
23 that a lot of the crime has gone down in the
24 city areas, and I'll take you at that word
112
1 and I hope that's the case. And if so, I
2 hope that trend continues.
3 But what we as Rocklanders see on TV
4 every day and experience going into the city,
5 it's still an unsafe ride into the city.
6 So I would like you to just maybe
7 speak to what I talked about, and speak to
8 the fact of are there any plans in the
9 future, in the foreseeable future, to improve
10 the lines and improve the stations in
11 Rockland County, knowing that we're going to
12 have this congestion pricing that's going to
13 go in and we still have that, you know, not a
14 one-seat ride into the city.
15 So I know I've explained a lot, but
16 maybe you can just address this.
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah, understood.
18 And listen, we're acutely sympathetic to the
19 fact that Rockland County, the services that
20 are West of Hudson -- I just talked about
21 it -- Port Jervis and Pascack Valley Line are
22 not first-class services. It's run by
23 New Jersey Transit. I don't want to throw
24 them under the bus more than I already have,
113
1 but it's not where we would want our
2 customers to be, how our customers should be
3 treated.
4 We've been great supporters of -- if
5 they ever, you know, get done with the, you
6 know, many billions on Gateway, that they do
7 consider that Bergen Loop that would get a
8 connection into New York City. I've been a
9 supporter of it and I've advocated for making
10 sure that there is room kept in designs of a
11 future Penn Station for additional direct
12 service from those West of Hudson lines.
13 In the meantime, you've heard me say
14 it, we really want to improve connections
15 from Rockland and West of Hudson into the
16 Hudson Line, and we can talk more about it
17 because we are passionate about that
18 connection.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
20 sir. Appreciate it.
21 SENATOR WEBER: Thank you.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member Simon.
23 Jo Anne. We're going to have to go to -- oh,
24 there she is. Okay, I'm sorry. Go ahead,
114
1 Jo Anne.
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Thank you,
3 Mr. Chair. You caught me mid-Tweet about the
4 J Train.
5 (Laughter.)
6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: It just so
7 happens.
8 Thank you very much for your
9 testimony, Chair Lieber.
10 I have a question for you -- a couple
11 of questions for you. But one is about
12 congestion pricing and if the proposed fares
13 go through the way they are, how will the MTA
14 mitigate the likely path-finding through the
15 neighborhoods to go over the Brooklyn or
16 Manhattan bridges, which will have a lower
17 toll than the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel?
18 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So because time is
19 so short, I'm just going to say the incentive
20 for toll shopping under the structures
21 proposed by TMRB will be reduced. So --
22 and -- no, it is. Numerically, it's cut in
23 half, right? So --
24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Reduced but --
115
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: No, significantly
2 reduced. And we're going to be cutting the
3 number of cars that are coming to New York.
4 So I -- respectfully, I don't -- you know, I
5 don't think it's a guarantee that there's
6 going to be more traffic through the
7 neighborhoods. You and I are both
8 Brooklynites. I don't think that with a
9 reduced incentive and a reduced number of
10 cars, which is what's projected and intended,
11 that there necessarily will be more impact on
12 the neighborhoods.
13 But you and I are going to talk about
14 this and look at it, and there's going to be
15 statistical evaluation up the wazoo.
16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Thank you.
17 The other question I have is, as you
18 know, we have a significant problem with
19 subway flooding, and certainly in my district
20 that happens quite frequently. What is the
21 MTA doing to work with the city with regard
22 to the -- so the sewer capacity and the fact
23 that things just bubble up and out.
24 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: No, I appreciate
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1 it. Look, the MTA system pumps 14 million
2 gallons of water every day on a dry day, and
3 on these torrential rain days is pushing
4 20 million gallons of water.
5 So we have a great system for clearing
6 water out of the subway. The problem -- and
7 we also are working very closely with the
8 city to close up all the nooks and crannies
9 of how water gets in. Obviously it starts
10 with making sure the drains are clear. And
11 that, you know, the equipment for pumping is
12 spread around to the right places and so on.
13 We do that very, very well.
14 But at the end of the day, when you
15 have a major water reservoir being created,
16 it's because the city sewer system can't
17 release water quickly enough. And we are
18 urging them to find ways to do that, even
19 specific locations like your neighborhood,
20 like the West Side of Manhattan, some of Tony
21 Simone's subway stations, which chronically
22 fill up with water because of the storm sewer
23 system of the city. We want them to push the
24 water out and get some mechanical support for
117
1 moving the water out of the system.
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Well, sign me up
3 to help.
4 And also a question about can we get a
5 York Street repair in the capital plan. Very
6 important issue, York Street, because we have
7 one staircase, as you know.
8 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I know all about
9 it, but I ran out of time. We'll have to
10 take that one offline.
11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Thank you.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
14 Senator Ramos.
15 SENATOR RAMOS: Well, buenos dias.
16 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Buenos dias.
17 SENATOR RAMOS: I want to start by
18 asking about casino revenue that's slated to
19 begin in 2026. And whether we're still on
20 pace for that or if there have been any
21 delays.
22 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Kevin?
23 MTA CFO WILLENS: Sure. You know, we
24 do have the casino revenues planned for 2026,
118
1 even though MTA doesn't control that process.
2 And the State Gaming Commission I know put
3 out answers to all the questions, and
4 there's --
5 SENATOR RAMOS: Well, the second round
6 of questions is going to be -- expected to be
7 done by the end of the month.
8 MTA CFO WILLENS: Right. And my
9 understanding is that the RFPs are expected
10 to be received for the 11 proposers sometime
11 by maybe the end of the year, early next
12 year.
13 SENATOR RAMOS: Okay. Well, thank
14 you, that's an interesting timeline.
15 Let me ask now, you know, during the
16 last budget hearing I expressed my concern
17 that MTA bathrooms were still closed, and you
18 shared with me recently that there's been
19 progress on this front. Can you share how
20 many are operational and what your plan is to
21 make more operational in the future?
22 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Rich?
23 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Yeah, I'm happy
24 to. Listen, Senator, I don't have the exact
119
1 number off the top of my head. I think we
2 have about -- I'm sorry?
3 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Eighty-eight.
4 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Eighty-eight
5 bathrooms? The 88 bathrooms -- and I think
6 it's actually more. Maybe I haven't informed
7 the chair of that.
8 We have a few more left that require,
9 let's just say, a lot of tender, loving care,
10 which we are implementing now. We wanted to
11 make sure that the bathrooms were clean and
12 welcoming to our customers. I would say in
13 my tour of them last year, that was not the
14 case. So we're really trying to be mindful
15 of that.
16 And then, as you know, to protect our
17 workers and make sure they're clean, they're
18 open for 12 hours; we close them for one hour
19 in the midday so our employees can get in
20 there and clean them.
21 In terms of the future, we'll look to
22 see, but our commitment was to reopen all
23 that were closed during COVID, and that's our
24 focus. We're pretty close.
120
1 SENATOR RAMOS: And which ones are the
2 most popular?
3 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Which ones are
4 the most popular? I have not followed the
5 door meter as of late, but I think Flushing
6 in particular, in Queens, is one of the most
7 popular, if I recall.
8 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I think it's a
9 question you know the answer to --
10 SENATOR RAMOS: I do.
11 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: It's 74th Street/
12 Roosevelt.
13 SENATOR RAMOS: It's 74th Street/
14 Roosevelt, that's right.
15 Okay, let's switch gears to the two
16 recent train derailments and the tragic death
17 of a transit worker. I want to ask how the
18 MTA is actively addressing safety concerns in
19 the aftermath of those incidents.
20 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: We're active,
21 Senator. A couple of things. I mean, one
22 is --
23 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: 22nd.
24 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: -- 22nd. So
121
1 for the track worker, working closely with
2 the NTSB, who is working with us on that,
3 happy to talk to you offline on that one.
4 The first derailment was actually a
5 collision of two trains. One was taken out
6 of service because it had been vandalized.
7 We make that move, that -- about 10 times a
8 day. And so we need to get into that
9 specific issue, and I'm happy to talk offline
10 about the --
11 (Overtalk.)
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
13 Sorry.
14 SENATOR RAMOS: Is it possible to sign
15 up for a second round?
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: No, there are no
17 more rounds, sorry.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
19 Slater, please.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: Thank you very
21 much.
22 Thank you very much, Chairman, for
23 being here and for all your hard work.
24 Looking forward to seeing the Brewster Yard
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1 Campus continue to move forward. I know that
2 your agency has been fantastic with that.
3 I represent Northern Westchester and
4 Putnam County. And like Senator Weber said
5 before, what I hear most from my constituents
6 are concerns surrounding congestion pricing.
7 And I know I only have a few minutes, so I
8 just want to try to get some of these
9 questions out of the way as quickly as I can.
10 Right now, is there a plan that is
11 being considered for exceptions for police
12 officers who commute into New York City?
13 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: That was not
14 recommended by the TMRB. They recommended no
15 specific rifle shot for specific worthy
16 populations, because that would push up the
17 toll for everybody. And they also thought it
18 would just snowball and create more and more
19 arguments.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: Understood.
21 So no -- so nothing for police,
22 nothing for New York City firefighters,
23 nothing for municipal workers. My next-door
24 neighbor works for New York City Sanitation.
123
1 So he will not receive an exemption because
2 he's simply going to work.
3 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: The -- remember
4 that 80-plus percent of the folks in
5 Westchester are taking mass transit. So the
6 exclusive focus on folks who drive to the
7 Central Business District I just think is
8 misplaced, honestly. But the answer is no,
9 there are no special-treatment exemptions
10 that have been proposed for any one group of
11 worthy population.
12 What you all said, there's a
13 disability exemption and there is a
14 low-income. So if any of those folks that
15 you're talking about qualify for low-income.
16 And of course people, municipal
17 workers who work off-hours will have the
18 benefit of it only being $3.75 in the
19 overnights.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: And when you're
21 implementing or planning on implementing
22 congestion pricing, and we read articles --
23 like yesterday in Newsday there was one about
24 how there is an estimated 224,000 MTA tolls
124
1 per month that are being dodged from fake and
2 obstructed license plates. How are we going
3 to avoid that type of gap with congestion
4 pricing when we're currently seeing it in the
5 system right now.
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, we've
7 actually brought down the number of
8 unbillable transactions by doing everything,
9 by making sure that the cameras pick up the
10 license plates, that there are no duplicates
11 in the system, people get the right bills,
12 the right -- so we brought down the number of
13 unbillables.
14 The one area that's going up is people
15 covering their plates. Which is why the
16 Governor has proposed a new -- a regimen in
17 the law that focuses on -- that creates real
18 penalties.
19 If you're trying to defraud the public
20 by covering your plate, and especially since
21 we're seeing people rolling around in
22 Porsches who are doing -- owe the public
23 $10,000, $20,000, $30,000, they've got to
24 come down. We did twice as many
125
1 interdictions on our bridges and tunnels as
2 we did the year before, and we're going to
3 keep at it. Because that is a fundamental
4 unfairness.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: Thank you very
6 much, sir.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Gonzalez.
8 SENATOR GONZALEZ: (Mic off.) Oh, now
9 we got it.
10 Great. Hello. Good morning.
11 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Hello, Senator.
12 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Definitely
13 appreciate your time being here. I'm excited
14 about a lot of the improvements that you
15 mentioned, as a straphanger my whole life.
16 Definitely will be impacted in a
17 three-borough district.
18 But today I wanted to talk a little
19 bit more about fare evasion, because in your
20 statement you mentioned that it's the single
21 biggest threat to the health -- or fiscal
22 health of the MTA.
23 So in the last year has fare evasion
24 gone up, down, or has it stagnated?
126
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So it's premature
2 for us to -- you know, we do this with a sort
3 of more and more specific sampling
4 methodology. So I can't tell you exactly how
5 it's gone in the year.
6 But when I made a speech about it two
7 years ago, it was going up fast, and last
8 year it was -- I think through the middle of
9 last year it was 700 million a year. So it
10 is a megaproblem that wasn't a megaproblem a
11 couple of years ago. A different scale of
12 problem, I should say, a couple of years ago.
13 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Got it, yes. So it
14 seems like that's similar to the number you
15 gave last year, which I think was 690
16 million. So maybe it's increased a little,
17 or stagnated. But what has increased, of
18 course, since last year is the investment in
19 surveillance and policing of our subway
20 systems. As you mentioned, we have had an
21 increase in the number of cameras, over
22 60,000 across our system.
23 We also have increased policing in
24 subway systems, and reports show that last
127
1 year alone, overtime for subway system
2 policing for the NYPD went up from 4 million
3 to 155 million. That additional 150 million
4 only resulted in $104,000 recovered from fare
5 evasion. Is that correct?
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. When that
7 point was made, it was misleading, because it
8 was as if all cops are doing with their
9 overtime is fare evasion for us, and that
10 couldn't be less true. What they're doing is
11 policing the system.
12 We're not in the fare evasion -- fare
13 evasion is not our first priority. Our first
14 priority is stopping crime -- I mean, the
15 NYPD is the executor, but for all of us the
16 priority is stopping crime and making riders
17 feel safe.
18 And you know what they tell us in
19 every survey Shanifah does? What do they
20 tell us, Shanifah?
21 MTA CCO RIEARA: We get feedback from
22 customers all the time about the importance
23 of seeing a uniformed police officer, with
24 every survey that we do, whether it's our
128
1 customer -- biannual customer count or our
2 monthly poll survey.
3 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Got it.
4 MTA CCO RIEARA: But to sort of build
5 on that, we also --
6 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Apologies, I only
7 have 30 seconds left.
8 I'm curious about your AI surveillance
9 system. So you've implemented AI in seven
10 stations, expanding it to 30 to track subway
11 riders. Are you planning on sharing that
12 data with the NYPD? And can you commit that
13 that system, which biometric surveillance
14 systems have proven to be discriminatory, we
15 promise that there will be no increase in
16 automated bias?
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, we use -- we
18 use AI not -- you know, not -- we don't have
19 any facial recognition technology. I think
20 that's the key issue.
21 What we're tryingt to do is to learn
22 how riders are moving through the system and
23 to serve them better, and have better
24 operating systems.
129
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
2 sir. Thank you.
3 SENATOR GONZALEZ: I would say
4 policing has many people --
5 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
6 Senator.
7 SENATOR GONZALEZ: Thank you. Thank
8 you.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
10 Darling.
11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING: Chairman and
12 team, thank you for your work and being here.
13 I represent Nassau County, and I want to go
14 on record and say that many Long Islanders
15 have shared with me that they are vehemently
16 against congestion pricing and they feel
17 financially targeted by this policy. Just
18 wanted to go on record and say that.
19 And in regards to the LIRR, I remember
20 a time when I could transfer at Jamaica and
21 the train was waiting right on the other side
22 of the track for me, like clockwork. And
23 recently I had two experiences where I waited
24 15 minutes for that connecting train, and one
130
1 experience traveling from Albany where I had
2 about two minutes to run up a flight of
3 stairs with a suitcase and run across three
4 tracks to catch the train. And I instantly
5 thought about our New Yorkers with
6 disabilities and how they would have had to
7 miss that and it would have been another
8 20 minutes added on to their trip in
9 inclement weather.
10 So I just wanted to share those
11 experiences and ask, how does the MTA plan to
12 continue to address the issues that
13 Long Islanders have concerns about,
14 including, you know, reliability and cost,
15 delays, with this proposed budget?
16 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Okay. I think --
17 what I will tell you is we increased service
18 by 41 percent and all of a sudden Long Island
19 Rail Road ridership in the last year has
20 surged, it's gone up dramatically.
21 And we've also seen -- yes, there was
22 a shakeout period on the new schedule because
23 we were providing so much more service that
24 clearly, from an operational standpoint, it
131
1 took a little while to get settled. But it
2 has settled down. We have 94 -- 95 percent
3 on-time performance this year, and last year
4 it was just a tad under 94. So we've gotten
5 back to the kind of performance that we want.
6 The connection issue -- the idea is on
7 the inbound, most people -- if you're going
8 to Grand Central, even if you're going to
9 Penn or even Atlantic, there are such
10 frequent trains that we're not trying to
11 schedule timed connections anymore, because
12 you cannot run 900 trains if you're waiting
13 in the station to make time connections.
14 On the outbound, though, the point
15 that you make is legit, and we're trying to
16 make sure that trains that operate
17 infrequently towards the East End do have
18 more robust connection periods so that nobody
19 gets left behind standing in Jamaica for an
20 hour.
21 So that is a work in progress. We've
22 made progress on it, and we're going to keep
23 at it.
24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING: Thank you.
132
1 And just in regards to our New Yorkers
2 with disabilities -- like, you know, I am a
3 very active person, so travel is very easy
4 for me. But on a day where, say, I don't
5 feel that active or someone did not have
6 those same abilities, I do not feel like the
7 Long Island Rail Road has yet reached the
8 level of accessibility that we would like to
9 see.
10 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, I'll just
11 tell you that there's, you know, 110 stations
12 out of 126 in the Long Island Rail Road --
13 no, 113 of 126 are accessible. There's seven
14 more that are under construction. They're
15 in -- most of those are in Southeast Queens.
16 And so we're getting pretty close to
17 100 percent ADA accessibility on Long Island
18 Rail Road; I'm very proud of that.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING: Thank you.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
21 Mr. Chairman.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. Next
23 is Senator Mayer from Westchester.
24 SENATOR MAYER: Thank you.
133
1 Thank you, Chairman. Thank you for
2 being here.
3 Quick question about the toll rebate
4 under congestion pricing for those who use
5 the Henry Hudson Bridge. When I voted for
6 congestion pricing in 2019, my recollection
7 is that Westchester, particularly
8 Southern Westchester drivers who use the
9 Henry Hudson Bridge, would be given the
10 rebate for the toll on the Henry Hudson
11 Bridge.
12 Now it appears it's limited to Bronx
13 drivers exclusively. Nothing against
14 Bronx drivers, but there's a whole lot of
15 people from Yonkers, Mount Vernon and
16 Southern Westchester who use it every day.
17 Is there any opportunity to revisit
18 that issue?
19 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah, you --
20 respectfully, you guys are in control of
21 that. We're implementing what was in the
22 statute, in the end. So you're welcome to
23 raise it, but it's -- I'm certain that we're
24 implementing the statute as written.
134
1 SENATOR MAYER: Well, we'll go back
2 over the statute. And I actually don't think
3 the statute reflects those language -- I
4 believe it is the understanding that occurred
5 later, and I'm asking whether it can be
6 revisited.
7 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: We're always open
8 to discussions. As was reported earlier, the
9 Outer Borough Transportation Account is now
10 finally, you know, developing some capacity,
11 so the Legislature is, you know, well within
12 its rights to revisit what projects that
13 money would be used for.
14 SENATOR MAYER: I think it was -- just
15 to be clear, it was done outside of the
16 legislative process --
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yes.
18 SENATOR MAYER: -- to my recollection.
19 I'm happy to revisit it, and I look forward
20 to that.
21 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: And I -- and I
22 misspoke. My team is telling me that it was
23 not in the statute, and there's another
24 process.
135
1 SENATOR MAYER: Yes.
2 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So I'll have to get
3 on top of it.
4 SENATOR MAYER: Understood. I look
5 forward to following up. Thank you.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
7 Assembly.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Yes,
9 Member Gallagher.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER: So nice to
11 see you, Chairman.
12 And I am a representative, as you
13 know, of Northern Brooklyn, and we are along
14 the most expanding housing corridor in the
15 entire state. And we have a wonderful train
16 that my district loves to ride. We are not
17 afraid of the train, we love it. And we also
18 support congestion pricing because we want
19 this train to be upgraded, and that is the G
20 Train.
21 And we are very grateful that the G
22 Train is currently getting new signals. But
23 that is resulting in a really painful
24 schedule which I'm accepting because I know
136
1 without pain there can be no gain. But I
2 want bigger gain from this shutdown, because
3 I see the G as the new lifeline for New York
4 City activity. Because we are growing in
5 Queens and we are growing in Brooklyn, and
6 the G actually connects all of these.
7 So we sent a letter to you, we just
8 sent it this morning, so I'll give you a
9 little preview. Twenty-two of us are asking
10 for you to expand the G back to Forest Hills
11 like it used to be, which got cut in 2010,
12 and to finally let our G Train be an adult
13 and grow to 10 cars instead of the four
14 stubby little cars that we've had all these
15 years.
16 So I'm wondering, are you willing to
17 seriously consider this and not brush it off?
18 Because I'm telling you, the ridership is
19 going to soar. Since we released this
20 letter, I've gotten so many emails and texts
21 saying: Thank you! I used to be able to get
22 to Queens in 10 minutes, and now I have to
23 ride three trains and take 20 minutes or
24 30 minutes, based on those trains.
137
1 So can we turn this six-week complete
2 shutdown of our only train into the most
3 expansive and amazing opportunity that Queens
4 and Brooklyn have ever seen, even beyond the
5 Interborough Express, which I'm also a big
6 supporter of.
7 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Okay. Yeah, this
8 is a good question. So I'm thrilled that you
9 recognize that a major signaling upgrade is
10 going to happen, and the value of that to
11 reliability. It also puts us in a position
12 to run better service.
13 Those decisions -- you know, I'm
14 looking at my friend here Mr. Davey. The
15 operations plan, it has to be done on the
16 stats. So you say -- and, you know, I
17 respect it -- that the ridership growth and
18 the housing growth warrants it. That is
19 going to be the -- those are going to be the
20 criteria that will be used to figure out
21 where to run more trains.
22 We are -- as you've heard from us,
23 we're running more service on the G
24 throughout the day, weekends and so on.
138
1 We're going to look at what you've asked for,
2 based on neutral criteria, and we're always
3 thrilled to talk to enthusiastic subway
4 riders like you.
5 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER: Okay, thank
6 you.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I want to see the
9 letter also, please.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER: Yes.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 Senator Persaud.
13 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I'd like to see it
14 after social media gets done with it, yeah.
15 (Laughter.)
16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER: You know how
17 we do things.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Persaud.
19 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you.
20 Thank you again for being here. I'm
21 looking forward to you coming for us to do
22 the walk-through in my district. I think MTA
23 is tired of hearing me say some of these
24 things that I say to them. But I want to
139
1 touch on something that the differently-abled
2 population in my community has been asking,
3 and that's the OMNY system.
4 Why is it that in the paratransit
5 system they're not able to use the system?
6 They still have to find cash when they call
7 Access-A-Ride. Can you tell us about that?
8 And what will it take for that system
9 to be added to paratransit?
10 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Yeah, so we're
11 actively working on that, not only for our
12 customers who use Access-A-Ride or E-Hail,
13 but for our customers -- our student
14 customers, for example.
15 We need to continue to migrate folks
16 onto OMNY. Our expectation is we should be
17 doing that this year. We actually have a
18 pilot coming soon, if not already, for some
19 of our paratransit customers, to ensure that
20 they can use OMNY.
21 But it's a -- we want to make sure
22 that the OMNY system, which I think, at least
23 in my experience, has been one of those items
24 we've implemented which customers love, to
140
1 make sure that all of our customers get it.
2 But paratransit customers are at the top of
3 the list next.
4 SENATOR PERSAUD: Okay, so you're
5 starting a pilot this year is what you're
6 saying?
7 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: A pilot's
8 certainly this year. Whether we're rolling
9 it out to all paratransit customers, I'll
10 have to get back to you with the exact
11 expected date. But certainly piloting.
12 SENATOR PERSAUD: Okay, thank you for
13 that.
14 You know, I have one of the free bus
15 lines in my district, and I've seen the
16 increase in ridership. So I'm awaiting the
17 results of your study to let us know and to
18 first decide what else we're going to do for
19 our ridership across the city in terms of
20 free service.
21 Can you tell me, also, what is being
22 done -- I've taken the train in the past
23 couple of months. You know, instead of
24 driving into the city, I've taken the
141
1 A Train, the L Train and the No. 4 Train.
2 And I have felt safe on the train. You know,
3 some people may not feel that way. But for
4 the most part, my constituents are telling me
5 they are still feeling safe on the train.
6 But how is the MTA conveying that to
7 the larger population, that the train is safe
8 to ride?
9 MTA CCO RIEARA: So we are doing that
10 in a number of ways, one component being that
11 we have throughout the system is our use of
12 our digital screens. So we have been
13 running, over the past couple of months, a
14 safety campaign which really displays what
15 the chairman is saying as far as current
16 stats and crime rates and showing the
17 improvement, as well as, you know, working
18 with President Davey with the use of station
19 agents outside of the booth who are, you
20 know, another great set of eyes and ears. So
21 we're pushing that out to our customers.
22 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you for that.
23 My final thing, please fix the BM2 bus
24 system. Thank you.
142
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
2 Senator.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you,
4 Senator.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
6 Carroll, please.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN CARROLL: Good morning,
8 Chair Lieber. Thank you for your testimony.
9 As you're aware, historically our
10 commuter railroads have received a
11 disproportionate amount of capital and
12 operating funding compared to the New York
13 City Transit.
14 With new funding streams like the
15 Payroll Mobility Tax, which exclusively taxes
16 New York City businesses, and of course
17 congestion pricing, can you commit today that
18 New York City Transit will receive its fair
19 share of operating and capital funding going
20 forward?
21 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: It's no secret to
22 you that the allocation of capital among our
23 different operators has historically involved
24 the Legislature, and the board that has final
143
1 approval includes the Legislature. So, you
2 know, that's not my commitment to make.
3 But you've seen what we've been doing
4 in terms of investing in New York City
5 ridership, including making it a lot cheaper
6 to ride the commuter railroads within the
7 City of New York, taking advantage of some of
8 that space that we now have on the system to
9 get people to shorter commutes who are riding
10 from commuter rail stations.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN CARROLL: But Chair
12 Lieber, I am correct that New York City
13 businesses, New York City commuters, New York
14 City residents pay the vast majority of the
15 funding that goes to the MTA, and we receive
16 a disproportionate amount of service and
17 investment compared to the commuter
18 railroads.
19 Can you commit to changing that? It
20 is the MTA that writes the 20-year capital
21 needs assessment, not the State Assembly and
22 Senate. It is the MTA that decides service
23 improvements along our subways, our buses and
24 our commuter railroads.
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1 Can you commit to bringing parity to a
2 system where New York City consistently pays
3 above its weight? And I will tell you right
4 now, I will agree with Senator Persaud, I
5 take the subway every day. It is safe. I'm
6 happy that we have congestion pricing, and my
7 constituents will pay more of it than any of
8 the suburban members' constituents. If
9 they're convinced that the subways are
10 dangerous and that New York City is now being
11 gated off, well, so be it. We're paying for
12 it.
13 Will you commit to the people who are
14 ready to pay for the system that we're going
15 to provide equal amounts? I'm not asking to
16 shortchange Long Island or the suburbs. I'm
17 just asking for parity in funding and
18 service.
19 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: It sounds
20 reasonable. We've always emphasized, within
21 the scope of the capital budget that we're
22 given, prioritizing making sure that subways
23 and buses and commuter rail service within
24 the city is great.
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1 We're very proud -- you've heard about
2 it at great length today -- and we're not --
3 and -- and --
4 ASSEMBLYMAN CARROLL: Well, that's
5 great. I will take that to the bank.
6 And I want to agree with
7 Assemblymember Gallagher, it is Brooklyn and
8 other places that are going to end up
9 building housing and are building housing.
10 We should make sure that when we build that
11 housing, the MTA is committed to increasing
12 service commensurate with that population
13 increase.
14 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Thank you.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you
16 very much.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN CARROLL: Thank you.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
19 Senator Fernandez.
20 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: Thank you so much.
21 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Hello, Senator.
22 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: I represent
23 District 34, the East Bronx, which has parts
24 of 95, Cross Bronx, and Hutchinson River
146
1 Parkway. In one of the recent lawsuits on
2 congestion pricing it was highlighted that
3 more congestion will be coming to the Bronx,
4 so this is a big concern for me, as my
5 community has these major highways right
6 through it.
7 Do you agree that congestion and
8 ridership will increase going through the
9 Bronx when congestion pricing starts?
10 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So what the
11 environmental studies show, using the
12 worst-case scenario -- and we're obligated to
13 do that under the law -- there was an
14 increase between 100 and 400 trucks per day.
15 And there was a specific mitigation plan
16 proposed.
17 And I'm not going to go through all of
18 it, but one thing that's great is to replace
19 those refrigeration units, which are
20 diesel-powered, in the South Bronx. That by
21 itself would offset the impact of those
22 additional trucks.
23 So we have complied with the idea of
24 mitigating the impact that was identified for
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1 the Bronx, and we're going to work with
2 everybody in EJ community in the Bronx to
3 make sure we get it done. We got their
4 support with that commitment.
5 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: But you agree
6 there will be more drivers coming through the
7 Bronx.
8 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: But you heard the
9 way that the system has been -- it's been
10 addressed to offset that impact.
11 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: Okay.
12 The OMNY card system, there's been
13 concern with privacy protection, knowing that
14 you could use a credit card for it. What has
15 MTA done to protect identity theft and any
16 other cyberattacks on our riders buying
17 through credit cards?
18 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: I think we have
19 a pretty robust cybersecurity program
20 generally at MTA. We can get you more
21 information specifically about that. But
22 we're not tracking riders using credit card
23 information at all.
24 I think what we have heard and found
148
1 from our customers is that they appreciate
2 the ability to have, you know, multiple
3 channels to use. Which is why we've seen
4 now, I think, OMNY at about -- close to
5 50 percent of our subway customers use OMNY
6 on a daily basis, without really any OMNY
7 machines yet. We're starting to put those
8 out now.
9 So I think what we're hearing from our
10 customers is they like it, it's a matter of
11 convenience, and we haven't had any cyber
12 issues as a result.
13 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: Okay.
14 With the turnstile upgrades that we're
15 looking at, you put a prototype, correct, of
16 the new doors --
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: That was one
18 experimental prototype. There was one
19 available, and --
20 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: How much does one
21 experiment cost?
22 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I don't have the
23 answer offhand.
24 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: I would like to
149
1 know. Because if we're going to continue to
2 experiment, I think that's a cost on our
3 system that we should avoid.
4 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Absolutely.
5 Absolutely.
6 SENATOR FERNANDEZ: Thank you.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
8 Assembly.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
10 Seawright? Is she here? Okay.
11 Member Sillitti.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SILLITTI: Hello.
13 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Hello.
14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SILLITTI: So last year
15 we were in this same room and we talked about
16 the train schedules and everybody's favorite
17 line, the Port Washington Branch, and
18 advocating for better service. So I wanted
19 to start this year with a compliment.
20 The acting Long Island Rail Road
21 president, Robert Free, has been really
22 great. When we had an issue with the
23 schedules -- again -- you know, he met with
24 me, but more importantly, he listened to the
150
1 hundreds of riders and what they had to say,
2 and there was a change and we got it fixed.
3 And I really appreciate that.
4 So basically, you know, what I was
5 asking for last year is kind of what I'm
6 asking for again this year. You know, we
7 still have a lot of work to do. The
8 schedules still have some issues. And too
9 many trains are still overcrowded. You know,
10 we continue to make fixes, but at the end of
11 the day -- we make fixes to the schedules; at
12 the end of the day, we need more trains.
13 With the promise of East Side Access,
14 you know, the commuters, we hoped we would
15 see more trains, better service. And
16 honestly, it really hasn't been the case for
17 the Port Washington Branch specifically, in
18 part because of our space limitations. We
19 need significant capital improvements, and I
20 know you touched on that today.
21 You know, unlike 10 years ago -- you
22 know the history -- I believe the community
23 and the locals are ready to make that
24 investment and engage with you. You know,
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1 everyone was excited about East Side Access;
2 now that it's here, you know, our work isn't
3 over.
4 So how do we get this into the capital
5 plan? You know, how do we get this done? Do
6 you need, you know, input from the riders?
7 As you've seen, my constituents know how to
8 mobilize. Tell me what you need to get this
9 done.
10 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I think the key is
11 to work out an agreement that will allow us
12 the use of -- to expand the yard. You and I
13 are in total agreement.
14 I think that the constraints on the
15 yard space are what has prevented us from
16 running more trains on the Port Washington
17 line, and we've got to solve that issue right
18 away to get -- that's where the focus ought
19 to be. The NIMBYism, you're right, is gone
20 that prevented that from happening in the
21 past. Everybody recognizes that not
22 expanding the yard was a huge mistake because
23 it didn't give the PW line the benefit of all
24 this additional capacity that we have now,
152
1 thanks to Grand Central Madison, and we've
2 got to attack it right away by solving that
3 yard issue.
4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SILLITTI: And this is,
5 as you know, a very long-term project. So,
6 you know, while we're working on that, you
7 know, on the same track or the next track
8 over, you know, really continue to work on
9 fixing these schedules and making sure that
10 it's, you know, working for everybody. And
11 we're not quite there yet, but I think we can
12 get there.
13 And certainly my commuters are ready
14 and willing to tell you what they feel.
15 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah. We're seeing
16 a lot of them at Grand Central Madison, the
17 folks from those --
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SILLITTI: Yeah, no,
19 they made the switch. They're liking it.
20 All right, thank you.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. Well,
22 thank you.
23 As the Senator had -- Senator Krueger
24 had mentioned earlier, we're going to take a
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1 10-minute break at this point in time so
2 everybody can stretch out a little bit. So
3 we'll see you back here in about 10 minutes.
4 (Brief recess taken.)
5 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Senator
6 Krueger.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you so
8 much.
9 So climate change. Everything's about
10 climate change, in my opinion, at this point
11 in life. And you have a commitment to moving
12 forward with your own plan. And I'm just
13 curious, where are we on that?
14 There was recently a Comptroller
15 report saying that we're behind, I guess, in
16 a risk assessment and implementation measures
17 to address extreme weather conditions
18 specific to the MTA, and concern about
19 preparedness, and where you are in the time
20 frame in the sort of goals that have been set
21 out by you.
22 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: {Mic issue.} I'm
23 not sure I'm on. But --
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Yes.
154
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: We work really
2 closely with the State Comptroller. But
3 point of clarification, there is -- there was
4 no schedule for such a risk assessment to be
5 done. So when people started muttering about
6 delays, there was no schedule.
7 But we are -- we have done this risk
8 assessment, and so much of it is -- I keep
9 coming back to it -- is reflected in that
10 very detailed report, never been done before
11 at this level of detail. Let's take a look
12 at that and talk about specifics.
13 But what's new in that report that may
14 not have come before the body in the past is
15 looking at all of the risks, all of the
16 situations that climate change creates --
17 extreme heat, torrential rainfall, sea-level
18 rise, as well as the coastal surge that Sandy
19 taught us about.
20 So new threats that are moving
21 quickly, and I think we've all got to find a
22 way to deal with them in the next MTA capital
23 program. That's the focus of that report.
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And you're right,
155
1 I don't think there was a specific timeline,
2 there was just a sense that climate's beating
3 us to the punch, so to speak, or the problems
4 from climate.
5 Is there adequate funding within your
6 next capital plan to address what you see as
7 the critical priorities for remediation and
8 improvements in your MTA system because of
9 what's happening?
10 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: The envelope size
11 of the next capital program has not been
12 identified. Our purpose in doing that report
13 was to raise everybody's understanding of the
14 scale and seriousness and urgency of the
15 threats. I think we provided that
16 information.
17 We're now doing prioritization and
18 pricing of the various interventions that are
19 called for by that report, and that will
20 factor into the next capital program.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And I think that
22 you've heard from a large number of people
23 today already how crucial what you do is to
24 every one of our communities in the 12
156
1 counties. And I know I represent the East
2 Side and Midtown of Manhattan, and I sort of
3 sometimes feel all of your riders come
4 through my borough every day, and my district
5 specifically. Perhaps they all don't, but it
6 feels like that.
7 So what you do is, you know, top
8 priority for the people of my district and
9 all the businesses that people come to and
10 all the places the tourists either come to or
11 don't come to. So we are very, very
12 conscious of making sure that you all have
13 the tools to do everything you need, because
14 frankly if you don't have a system that
15 works, it all falls apart, at least from my
16 perspective here in Manhattan.
17 So people have asked you a lot of
18 concerns about congestion pricing, and people
19 asked about the lawsuits, which I also don't
20 really understand. But do you realistically
21 think that you're going to be able to stay on
22 schedule for starting?
23 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: The issue is the
24 lawsuits. We have an infrastructure ready,
157
1 we have the back office. I'm sure there will
2 be imperfections and we will hear about them
3 when they -- if -- when they happen. But the
4 contract is ready to go, we've planned this
5 properly.
6 The issue is if we have legal
7 uncertainty, we can't award contracts that
8 are dependent on the congestion pricing
9 money. That's the issue that we're
10 struggling with right now.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And as part of
12 the sort of changes that were laid out by the
13 MTA and agreed to with the Legislature,
14 involving outer borough transit money and
15 changes because of OMNY's rollouts, have you
16 been able to hit all of your targets for
17 service increases, based on those discussions
18 and actually agreements in previous budgets?
19 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I believe we have.
20 I mean, the 35 million that was referenced
21 earlier that was in last year's 2023 budget
22 was what funded the increases that Rich
23 enumerated. We're happy to talk about any of
24 it.
158
1 I think we've been able to provide the
2 service increases on top of the Long Island
3 Rail Road 41 percent increase. And we
4 implemented the Express Bus improvements for
5 Staten Island, and we're going to grow the
6 bus network as we do each of these
7 borough-by-borough improvements, and those
8 expansions and improvements are funded in the
9 five-year plan. I just want to make that
10 clear.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 So this is a follow-up to a question
13 that another member couldn't get in, but it
14 was a very good question. So we heard about
15 concerns around the homeless population in
16 the major Grand Central, Penn Station areas,
17 on the subways. And you're not actually
18 responsible for homelessness or all the
19 problems associated, but I know that a lot of
20 work is being done. And I agree that there
21 are definitely improvements when people are
22 riding the subways with concerns.
23 But a concern that was raised here --
24 or couldn't be raised, because Senator Ramos
159
1 actually ran out of time -- was we do see
2 children in the subways basically panhandling
3 or selling candy. And I know that there are
4 outreach teams working within the subway
5 system for homeless people.
6 Is anybody looking into, when you see
7 children, often very young children, almost
8 by themselves, walking along subway tracks or
9 the trains, selling candy -- does anybody
10 match-make with social services or with
11 education, why aren't they in school
12 somewhere?
13 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So this is a recent
14 program that we too have noticed as well.
15 And what we've done, we started a dialogue
16 with the Department of Education. The most
17 natural intervenor is the folks who are
18 supposed to be making sure that those kids
19 are in school. And we do have SOS, the
20 Governor has set in motion this SOS program
21 for outreach to the homeless. They've also
22 tried to make sure that when you see a kid of
23 that kind, that those people are identified,
24 get information, and you try to connect them
160
1 with service, or at least to begin a process
2 of figuring out what they need and what's
3 missing and putting them in that position.
4 So we've made some progress. I'm not
5 going to take you through the stats. But
6 because of our end-of-line homeless outreach
7 operation, which happens in the middle of the
8 night at a lot of stations, we track the
9 scale of the population that's sheltering in
10 the system. And it's actually gone down a
11 little bit, but it has by no means gone away.
12 And we're acutely aware of the fact
13 that there are new groups of unsheltered
14 people who are -- who may seek shelter in the
15 system, and we're trying to make sure that
16 they get into services or treatment if it's
17 appropriate, and most important, housing, in
18 the long run. We're working on that with the
19 city and all of the social service agencies
20 every day.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: You and I have
22 actually discussed this, but I'm going to
23 raise it again because I don't think there's
24 been a change in policy.
161
1 It was one thing to allow people who
2 are taking bicycles or electric bikes onto
3 the subways or buses so that they perhaps can
4 get to, you know, the last mile to the train
5 and taking their bike with them on the train.
6 But full-sized motorcycles driving along the
7 platforms and using the elevators which we're
8 very happy we're seeing more of them because
9 they're crucial for disabled New Yorkers.
10 They're not motorcycle elevators, and yet as
11 I mentioned to you, I wait for an elevator
12 and then it opens up and then a giant
13 motorcycle or two come out or go in.
14 And I think that you had changed the
15 policy that somehow implies that that's
16 allowed. So clarify what we're going to do
17 about that.
18 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: What's allowed is
19 bikes and e-bikes, and with a specific
20 prohibition on charging anytime you're
21 anywhere in the system. And that's something
22 that we're aggressively enforcing, especially
23 on the railroad. I've never seen someone try
24 to charge on the subway car, but we have seen
162
1 that on the railroad, and we're being
2 aggressive about that.
3 Listen, you know, the size of the
4 vehicle that you're describing, they don't
5 belong on the subway. If it's gas-powered,
6 they are especially prohibited. Haven't seen
7 a lot of it, haven't heard a lot of it, but
8 you've seen it and we've let the folks who
9 are doing enforcement know to be on the
10 lookout. If that starts to happen, we're
11 going to push, push, push on that.
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So I actually
13 asked an NYPD because they were standing
14 there, and I said "Stop them." He said,
15 "They're allowed now." So maybe it needs a
16 discussion also with NYPD that we're not
17 talking about either electric or gas, actual
18 motorcycles. It's really scary if you're
19 standing on a platform and suddenly there's a
20 motorcycle coming at you. You have nowhere
21 to jump.
22 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: You want to --
23 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: The officer was
24 misinformed. I mean, that's all I can say.
163
1 We will report that. Our station agents are
2 now out of the booth, they're doing some more
3 station rounds today. They know that if they
4 see that kind of vehicle -- and it's a
5 vehicle, it's not a bicycle, they should
6 report it. Because as you said, it's a
7 safety issue for our customers, a safety
8 issue on the train -- God forbid if there's
9 some malfunction with this, you know, moped
10 or scooter or motorcycle. There's just no
11 place for them whatsoever.
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And I know that
13 the Governor I think put in her budget
14 something about trying to address people who
15 are hiding their license plates, which I know
16 impacts tolls but it also -- these are
17 motorcycles, no question about it, and they
18 don't have license plates.
19 And my time is up. Thank you.
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I wish we could get
21 that level of self-enforcement in the subway
22 system.
23 (Laughter.)
24 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Next we'll
164
1 have Member Otis, please.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you, Janno,
3 for the good testimony.
4 I have one basic question and one
5 little comment on -- the little comment is on
6 congestion pricing. We've heard from a few
7 individuals who basically get off of work in
8 the city after 1:00 a.m. and they're sort of
9 saying there needs to be some dispensation.
10 These are generally healthcare workers or
11 security workers, and so they're sort of at a
12 loss of affordability in terms of paying the
13 charge. So I throw that out there.
14 But my basic question relates to
15 Metro-North and the quantity of cars on
16 particular trains. What's the story in terms
17 of new cars being brought online? And the
18 story in terms of monitoring where we have
19 now some certain trains, popular trains,
20 where there are not enough seats for the
21 passengers that get on, and how you track
22 that and your agility in being able to
23 respond to those demands.
24 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So it's been most
165
1 like high-profile that we've been doing a lot
2 of monitoring and adjustment on Long Island
3 Rail Road since that new schedule was put in
4 effect.
5 We do it also on Metro-North.
6 Metro-North has unbelievably high-quality
7 on-time performance, having 98 percent this
8 year, 97 last year. And we're -- what we do
9 is we look at every train and if there is a
10 pattern of a train being over capacity, there
11 are adjustments made, usually by moving, you
12 know, the car -- increasing the size of the
13 car consists.
14 One of the problems that we're having,
15 though -- and I think we all know this -- is
16 that people's expectations of personal space
17 have changed. And part of that is the middle
18 seat, which was never too popular, is really
19 like off-limits. So we're having more
20 standees. We're trying to get people more to
21 use the seats that are there so there isn't
22 as much sense of overcrowding.
23 But we're looking at it very, very
24 carefully all the time. If you have a
166
1 particular train you're concerned about, let
2 us know, we'll take another look at the
3 numbers.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: And in terms of new
5 cars, availability of those on order, where
6 do we stand?
7 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Absolutely. So
8 we're in negotiations, we want to buy, you
9 know, new 9-As, the number of the car that
10 would serve both commuter railroads. We're
11 in negotiation with Alstom. It's no secret
12 that procurement was outstanding for a long
13 time. As I said, I want to buy cars from
14 Alstom. It's a New York-based operation. I
15 also need to buy cars that we can afford.
16 So we're working on that, and we'll
17 come back to you. But the goal is to have
18 new -- a procurement that will give us a lot
19 more new commuter railcars in the near
20 future, a couple of years.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you very
22 much. I yield back the rest of my time.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
24 So the chairs of committees are
167
1 allowed three-minute second rounds, so I'm
2 going to call up Senator Tim Kennedy.
3 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you,
4 Chairwoman Krueger.
5 Chairman and team, thank you again for
6 your testimony.
7 I want to just talk about -- I know
8 you've mentioned the ridership and the
9 difficulty of getting back to pre-pandemic
10 levels. What is, say, the 10-to-20-year
11 outlook on getting back to those levels? And
12 what are your thoughts on sustaining
13 operations without new state or federal
14 revenue assistance?
15 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Our financial plan
16 that I keep talking about, the five zeros,
17 balanced budgets, is based on increasing
18 ridership, paid ridership, by another
19 10 percent from where we are today, in a
20 couple of years. So that's some combination
21 of more riders and also, hopefully, less fare
22 evasion.
23 So we are attacking that every day.
24 That's how we would judge our access.
168
1 I do not think that we should worry
2 that we don't have the crush loading that we
3 had -- particularly on subways, but sometimes
4 on commuter rails -- before COVID. This is a
5 good problem to have. And the levels that
6 we're talking about shooting for that give us
7 the balanced budget, are, you know, robust
8 ridership, and it supports the region
9 economically. So we're not concerned.
10 But we're concerned about getting to
11 the numbers that we've got in the financial
12 plan.
13 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
14 And does the MTA anticipate any
15 additional federal funding to assist with the
16 deficit?
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, there's new
18 representation coming from the western part
19 of the state --
20 (Laughter.)
21 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: -- and we're very
22 hopeful that more federal funding will come
23 along with those changes in governmental
24 representation in Washington.
169
1 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
2 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: To be -- kidding
3 aside, yeah, we have done well with the Biden
4 infrastructure plan. Senator Schumer, God
5 bless him, guardian angel of the MTA in
6 Washington, you know, keeps saying that we
7 should plan on 10 billion total come the end
8 of the Biden infrastructure money going out.
9 But a lot of it is competitive grants, so you
10 don't know if you're going to get it.
11 So right now it looks like we've
12 nailed down, you know, four or five,
13 including the additional formula money. But
14 we have to succeed in the different grant
15 categories, which are competitive, in order
16 to hit that $10 billion number, which is part
17 of our capital plan.
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: And just last
19 question, on those same lines, because we've
20 been dealing with these issues, deficits and
21 filling in the hole with funding and
22 different revenue sources. What could the
23 MTA do with federal funding toward
24 operational expenses within the MTA?
170
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Listen,
2 historically operating budget -- operating
3 assistance has not been a great reliable
4 source of funds for the MTA because it comes
5 and goes based on who's in power.
6 But there is a proposal on the table.
7 We support it.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Great. I'd like
9 to see that, if you could get it to us.
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
12 Member Seawright. Is she here? Not
13 here, okay.
14 Member Jacobson. Member -- there he
15 is, okay.
16 I'd also like to take the opportunity
17 to just say that Member Pheffer Amato,
18 Member Walker, Member González-Rojas, they've
19 all joined us as well. Thank you.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: All right,
21 thank you. Good to see you again.
22 As you know, I represent a district in
23 the Hudson Valley, and I have the
24 Poughkeepsie and Beacon train stations in my
171
1 district. So I'd like to bring up about the
2 Beacon Train Station, because as you know,
3 we've had extensive flooding in the parking
4 lot on the side near the river. And I did
5 get a call back from someone in your office,
6 and they said, "What do you want me to do
7 about it? It's climate change."
8 Well, I think we have to do something
9 about it. I think that we'll end up with the
10 whole Metro-North under the river if we don't
11 plan on that. And the least we can do, when
12 it comes to that parking lot, is close it for
13 that day or starting the night before if we
14 think we got -- you know, we're going to have
15 a bad storm.
16 And unfortunately we get a lot of bad
17 storms, and they're worse all the time. So
18 could you tell me what you're going to be
19 doing?
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Listen, it sounds
21 like somebody was a little flip in the
22 response. That's not my attitude towards
23 that issue, which is if you have people who
24 are parking their cars and then coming back
172
1 to find that they're flooded and that
2 they're, you know, the car's underwater with
3 damage and all that, that's not good.
4 So we ought to plan for it. We ought
5 to plan to close those areas if that has been
6 the experience. You know, it's hard to
7 project when torrential rainfall is coming in
8 this new climate change era. But I'm happy
9 to work with you. I think the folks at
10 Metro-North are fully capable of doing that.
11 We've also, you know, agreed that
12 we've got to open up some other areas to make
13 sure that people park in the right areas if
14 there is a risk. So we'll work with you on
15 that issue.
16 But the bigger issue which we're all
17 talking about is how to make sure to protect
18 that Hudson Line.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: I understand.
20 But I just think I know -- I know most of
21 your responsibility is in the five boroughs.
22 I understand that. But the thing is, we've
23 got to play it all over, otherwise you're
24 going to have the whole system underwater.
173
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: The Hudson Line is
2 very much on our minds, be assured of that.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: And one other
4 thing I asked last time, would it be so much
5 to have a portable toilet at the Beacon
6 Station that we could put there so people can
7 have it? Because the stench is terrible.
8 And people love coming to Beacon, but the
9 stench is terrible when you arrive.
10 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Sounds eminently
11 reasonable. I don't want to waste the
12 Legislature's time, but let's talk about
13 portajohns.
14 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: That would be
15 good, because when I brought this up with
16 your representative, he was worried about
17 homeless people coming down and -- I don't
18 think they're going to be tracking down that
19 hill.
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I live in Brooklyn;
21 we have -- you know, we've addressed the
22 problem, so.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Okay. Well,
24 it's the little things that have quality of
174
1 life.
2 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yes.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Thank you.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
6 And a second round for Chair Comrie,
7 three minutes.
8 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you. I want to
9 start with where I'm going to end it,
10 Penn Station. As you know, my favorite beef
11 is that we are not doing this Penn Station
12 with throughway and throughput. And a Post
13 article that came out at Christmas talked
14 about the project expansion, that the cost of
15 the project is expanding.
16 Why can't we play with each other's
17 trains and have the similar offices and
18 shared facilities so the project wouldn't be
19 so expensive? And why are we not figuring
20 out a way to do like other countries do where
21 they can share national, local and
22 metropolitan trains within the same station
23 with the same people using the facility?
24 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So just to be
175
1 clear, New York's use of Penn Station, we're
2 not having problems with our capacity.
3 Right? We are now running hundreds and
4 hundreds of Long Island Rail Road trains.
5 Customers are happier every week with our
6 performance.
7 And we've improved it by doing that
8 amazing Carter project, which has changed
9 the --
10 SENATOR COMRIE: I've only got three
11 minutes. So why has the cost been estimated
12 to go up?
13 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I don't know
14 what -- respectfully, I just -- I don't
15 understand, what are you asking me to comment
16 on? The future of the Penn Station
17 project --
18 SENATOR COMRIE: The future of
19 Penn Station.
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: -- mostly being
21 driven by Amtrak and New Jersey Transit, who
22 want to expand trackage capacity.
23 You know the Governor has said let's
24 focus on the piece that impacts New Yorkers,
176
1 existing Penn. That's her approach, and
2 that's what -- the orders I'm operating
3 under.
4 SENATOR COMRIE: We're spending so
5 much money, I still think we need to upgrade
6 our stations to have through running and
7 other things that other major countries have
8 as well. So I still want to continue to bang
9 that drum until I can get you guys to change
10 your mind.
11 Just on a second issue, the PCAC
12 initiative to figure out how to expand the
13 Fair Fares and to come up with an expansion
14 of the CityTicket and also clear ticket fares
15 throughout the system so that we can get more
16 people to understand how they can access the
17 trains, how to pay for the trains at a
18 certain level, and a better way to expand
19 knowledge of that.
20 And then also I had another question
21 regarding the cost for project labor and
22 ensuring that all construction projects have
23 project labor agreements with the building
24 trades and apprenticeship programs that are
177
1 embedded in all contracts that are going
2 forward.
3 And also Senator Ramos had a second
4 question about who did the work on the
5 platform barriers and the 700 million {sic}
6 pilot turnstiles at Parsons-Archer. Who did
7 the work, where are these contracts from, and
8 was union labor used?
9 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Okay. So --
10 SENATOR COMRIE: I know you can't get
11 back and answer me now, but --
12 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I can't answer
13 everything, but I'll just say this. The
14 CityTicket, under this Governor, we just
15 dramatically cut the cost of traveling on the
16 railroads inside the city. That's changing
17 people's lives. It's 80 percent of the PCAC
18 agenda on price.
19 But Lisa Daglian is our close partner,
20 and we're always going to keep working.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. I
22 have to cut you off. Thank you.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
24 Mitaynes, please.
178
1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: Thank you.
2 Stand by, I'm on the move. That's a
3 line I use on social media to communicate
4 with my followers, my dependency and youth of
5 public transit.
6 So my question is, as no available
7 funding opens up through the Outer Borough
8 Transportation Account, would the MTA be
9 supportive of a project such as extending the
10 B81 proposed route or an alternative route in
11 the Brooklyn bus network redesign to
12 Manhattan to meet the growing needs? I say
13 specifically because of the transit desert
14 communities of Red Hook and Flatbush to
15 Lower Manhattan.
16 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Okay, so thank you
17 for the question. I'm a Flatbush person
18 myself.
19 I don't know the specifics of those
20 lines, but the Brooklyn bus redesign, which
21 has been a draft plan which has been on the
22 table for about a year, we're doing that
23 incredibly extensive outreach. You're
24 obviously a very important voice in that
179
1 process, and we're going to come back and
2 look at the whole picture as part of getting
3 back to you. It's not cost-constrained.
4 We're planning to spend more money on
5 Brooklyn buses. But I can't answer the
6 specific one without looking at the whole
7 package.
8 Rich?
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: Thank you.
10 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: And I would
11 just say, as we did in the Bronx and as we've
12 proposed in Queens, you know, our -- the
13 drafts we put out have never been the final
14 word. We've taken feedback from elected
15 officials, stakeholders, and most
16 importantly, our customers. I expect what we
17 have out for Brooklyn right now will not be
18 what we ultimately implement in the future.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: Thank you.
20 Of the local buses, Select Buses,
21 Express Buses and subways, which ridership
22 has the highest percentage of people who own
23 a car and could otherwise drive?
24 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I don't know.
180
1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: What
2 percentage of seats are filled, on average,
3 on Express Buses? Are they full, 80
4 percent --
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Not full. They
6 are -- we're operating in the 30s. But we're
7 not a million miles off of where they were
8 before COVID. So we have a lot of room on
9 the Express Bus system. And I -- I take it
10 sometimes myself back to my part of Brooklyn,
11 and it's a great ride. But we do have to
12 bear in mind we've got a lot of capacity
13 there, and they're, you know, expensive to
14 subsidize for all of us with the resources we
15 have.
16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: The MTA has
17 been running a pilot of bicycle racks on city
18 buses in Staten Island to Bay Ridge. Can you
19 share the latest progress and your plans for
20 expanding the bike rack on the front of
21 buses, the pilot?
22 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: All those buses
23 where, you know, people need to get over a
24 bridge in order to get where they want to go,
181
1 we want to have bike racks on those.
2 And I think we put them on the two
3 lines that cross the bridge, right?
4 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: That's right.
5 And we will continue to look to see if
6 we can add more bike racks. It has to do
7 with sort of the space within depots. But as
8 the chair said, we're prioritizing those
9 routes we know that are routes where folks
10 can't take their bikes over bridges, as an
11 example.
12 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: But the MTA has
13 added bike access to almost every bridge that
14 we operate, so we're prioritizing that.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
16 Mr. Chairman.
17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: Thank you.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
19 sir.
20 Member Palmesano, please.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Yes, thank
22 you, Mr. Chairman, for being here today.
23 As you know, I represent Alstom, in
24 Hornell, New York. I want to thank you and
182
1 your team for visiting in the summer of '22
2 so you could see firsthand the great
3 workforce and the great work they're doing to
4 address rail manufacturing, including
5 high-speed rail, here in New York and across
6 the country.
7 My message obviously is about the
8 critical importance of keeping MTA projects
9 being executed in New York State. You know,
10 we're very fortunate to have that industrial
11 base of manufacturing, engineering, project
12 management, and supplier -- a big huge supply
13 base. The jobs and economic benefits that go
14 along with that are well known, and we don't
15 want to put that at risk.
16 There are 700 workers at the Hornell
17 site. There's union partners, machinists,
18 they're doing projects for Amtrak, Chicago
19 and Philadelphia, but none for the MTA at the
20 moment. And we know MTA projects are really
21 a proven engine for creating jobs upstate,
22 and we want to continue that.
23 So that brings me to two of my
24 questions. I'll get them both out there for
183
1 the time. One is we know that there's a new
2 generation of subway vehicles being proposed
3 in the future of New York City Transit, the
4 R262 contract. I wanted to know what the
5 time and status of that would be. That's one
6 area.
7 The other area, as I'm sure you're
8 pretty familiar, and your team might be
9 familiar with the Brightline high-speed rail
10 contract that's being determined very soon
11 for high-speed rail from Las Vegas to
12 Nevada -- and Alstom's one of the bidders on
13 that contract -- and many on this panel, I
14 believe, given that both Transportation
15 chairs have weighed in on the competitor's
16 waiver from the Buy American requirements.
17 So my other question is, what can you
18 do or the Hochul administration really do to
19 support Alstom's pursuit of this rail
20 contract that would not just support the
21 hundreds of workers in New York and in my
22 district, but also help support the
23 industrial capacity to help serve you and the
24 MTA for years to come?
184
1 Is there anything you can do there?
2 And we'll maybe --
3 (Overtalk.)
4 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So we're not --
5 obviously the economic development
6 decision-making is not, you know, our
7 bailiwick.
8 But I'll say this. I want a strong
9 operation in Hornell. So for them to get a
10 lot of good contracts from around the country
11 is a great thing, even if it displaces
12 capacity that I might want to use for the
13 R262s or otherwise.
14 So we support that. But, you know,
15 the -- you obviously are going to work with
16 the economic development authorities of the
17 State of New York on that. We want them to
18 be strong and to be expanding that.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: So would
20 the -- on the Brightline, is that something
21 the Hochul administration would join us in
22 submitting comments? Because that would be
23 vital because that would not just be
24 supporting those jobs there, but --
185
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I'm sure you
2 understand that that is not among the many
3 things that are on my job description.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Sure.
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Deciding whether
6 Florida has a contract in New York State is
7 not among them.
8 But as long as Hornell is producing
9 railcars, I want them to get a lot of
10 business and be strong.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Yeah, because
12 that Buy American provision is critical. And
13 that's why we want to support that, because
14 of that base, so.
15 Thank you. Appreciate it,
16 Mr. Chairman.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
18 Member González-Reyes.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Ro-has.
20 Thank you all.
21 So this cast is precisely why I'm an
22 advocate for public transportation and
23 pedestrian/cyclist safety. I got hit by a
24 car a few weeks ago.
186
1 And talking about pedestrian safety,
2 we got to pass the MTA Bike Access bill and
3 the Strategic Planning bill to ensure -- to
4 develop a strategic plan to improve bicyclist
5 and pedestrian access on bridges and
6 stations. So thank you for your partnership
7 on that.
8 Can you share an update on where we
9 are in the implementation of that
10 legislation?
11 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, we just last
12 month -- I'm not going to get all the details
13 right, but I'm going to refer back because
14 time is short. We did an extensive
15 presentation on the changes that we are
16 making with many, many MTA bridges to make
17 those walkways, to the extent they exist, put
18 them where they don't exist and to expand
19 them and make them safer for both pedestrians
20 and bicycles where they do. So there's a lot
21 of planning going into that.
22 And we're also well on the way to
23 having bike racks at every subway station so
24 we're literally knocking out the last few
187
1 with the city DOT. And we've also done a big
2 push on that in the suburbs. Even where we
3 don't control the real estate, we're working
4 with localities to make sure they have
5 adequate capacity for bike parking and
6 storage.
7 And we're trying out some of this
8 secure bike parking that makes people even
9 more inclined to use their bikes for that
10 last-mile connection.
11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Thank
12 you.
13 I know someone asked about the data
14 around the free bus pilot, and I know you
15 don't have it ready yet, but I know
16 President Davey was quoted in the
17 December 2023 Our Town NY article about
18 seeing about somewhere between a 7 and
19 20 percent increase on buses. When would
20 that data be transparent and shared with the
21 public and --
22 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I think I said
23 it -- you may not have been present. But
24 what I said, it's like the Legislature said
188
1 this is a six-to-12-month pilot, and we're
2 collecting data and we're going to be back to
3 you in that six-to-12-month time frame, it's
4 just premature.
5 Yes, we are seeing ridership grow, but
6 it's not fair to not perform the analysis
7 that everybody called on us to do and to give
8 you full data.
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: And
10 then in my last few seconds, concerning the
11 finances of the MTA, I imagine it would be
12 best to have just more sustainable funding.
13 I have a bill that would remit the
14 internet sales tax into a lockbox that would
15 go directly to the MTA, as opposed to going
16 through this process. Would that be helpful
17 for financial planning? It's part of the MTA
18 package of bills.
19 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: We'll take a look
20 at it, but obviously, you know, I just don't
21 know enough about it to respond. And we
22 obviously have to talk to the administration.
23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Thank
24 you so much.
189
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
2 Member Burgos, please.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS: Thank you,
4 Chairman Lieber, and the rest of the team at
5 the MTA.
6 As you're aware, I've been engaged
7 with your team and the Governor's team along
8 with Senator Comrie over the past year
9 regarding the grave injustice happening in
10 our state when it comes to cashless tolling
11 and the E-ZPass system.
12 I won't go into every problem we've
13 discussed in the interests of time, but for
14 the record, I've talked to many New Yorkers
15 who have been burdened with bills reaching
16 tens of thousands of dollars, often leaving
17 them in debt collections, losing their car
18 and subsequently their livelihood.
19 Now, I want to be clear, this is not a
20 defense for scofflaws who cover their plates
21 or deliberately ignore toll bills. Both of
22 these issues are true, and should not be
23 conflated.
24 There are three tolling authorities in
190
1 New York State, but it's very apparent the
2 overwhelming majority of people dealing with
3 this issue are the ones who cross the MTA's
4 seven bridges and two tunnels in New York
5 City. With the congestion pricing plan set
6 to be implemented very soon, I have great
7 concern that these same issues will only
8 expand if sweeping changes are not made.
9 Chairman Lieber, how many toll
10 transactions does the MTA process annually?
11 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Two and a half -- I
12 think it's $2.5 billion worth. I'm going to
13 pull out the --
14 ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS: About 320 million
15 transactions, right?
16 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: You obviously know
17 the numbers, then.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS: Approximately how
19 many drivers use the cashless tolling system
20 as opposed to an E-ZPass tag?
21 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I think we're
22 80 percent E-ZPass, plus or minus.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS: Eighty percent
24 E-ZPass, about 20 percent using cashless
191
1 tolling, plus or minus.
2 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Somebody will
3 correct me if I'm wrong, but I think -- more
4 or less.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS: Okay, thank you.
6 Now, the other two tolling authorities
7 in New York have a penalty system for unpaid
8 tolls. However, they differ vastly. The
9 Port Authority typically adds on a $50
10 violation per unpaid toll, while the Thruway
11 Authority charges a very reasonable $50 per
12 billing cycle, a maximum of $600 per year.
13 The MTA, on the other hand, charges a
14 $100 per toll violation, an amount more
15 egregious than even the most predatory
16 creditor out there.
17 How much does the MTA collect in these
18 $100 fees?
19 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Listen, I don't
20 know the answer. But our average penalty fee
21 is 30 bucks. So I don't really know where
22 the data's coming from.
23 And, you know, I'm -- all this is --
24 obviously you want to talk about this in some
192
1 detail. The answer is, number one, we are
2 absolutely prepared to work with all of the
3 members of the Legislature on customer
4 service. I don't necessarily fully disagree
5 with you about fees. But the bottom line is
6 people have to pay their tolls, and the
7 interventions we've been doing, increasing
8 dramatically, are focused on people who are
9 massive scofflaws or who are intentionally
10 covering their plates.
11 We don't want to burden people who
12 just overlook a bill. So let's talk about
13 it, and let's focus --
14 (Unintelligible overtalk.)
15 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: -- on the fact that
16 90 percent of the people from the Bronx --
17 90 percent of the people from the Bronx are
18 taking mass transit. So the demonization of
19 the effort to collect tolls so that we can
20 pay for mass transit --
21 ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS: Yes, but a $30
22 average fee is not including the ones that go
23 to debt collection. That's not calculated
24 into your numbers. And there are many people
193
1 who go into debt collection receiving these
2 bills. I've seen bills $40,000, $50,000,
3 $60,000, and it's not uncommon.
4 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Let's --
5 ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS: And again, I'm
6 not defending the scofflaws. That is not my
7 goal here.
8 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Well, that's my
9 problem right now. So before we get into
10 tolls, you're going to hear me talk about
11 what is basically a theft from the public,
12 and it's grown.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS: Thank you.
14 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
15 Mr. Chairman.
16 Member De Los Santos, please.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS: Good
18 afternoon, Chairman.
19 I'd -- so if I'm not mistaken, we are
20 in our final year of the MTA 52.1 billion
21 capital program executed from 2020 to 2024.
22 One of the initiatives of this program was to
23 add ADA elevators to more train stations, MTA
24 train stations.
194
1 What's the forecast to add ADA
2 elevators in all train stations, particularly
3 in the one in my district in Marble Hill,
4 225th Street, where accessibility is an issue
5 for our elderly folks? And we're still
6 struggling understanding how that station,
7 specific train station, did not become a
8 priority for ADA elevators.
9 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So the answer is --
10 I think you've heard me say it -- we are
11 doing ADA stations at four times the pace of
12 the MTA in the past. We have an agreement
13 with the disability community about
14 continuing that pace until we're completed
15 with all of them.
16 But all -- but the prioritization,
17 what order we go in, hinges on issues like
18 trying to make sure we never have more than
19 two stops away, so people do have access to
20 some ADA station. But we'll work with you on
21 figuring out where that station may be. I
22 just don't know the answer. But it's
23 something we study a great deal, about how to
24 prioritize as we're building out the whole
195
1 system.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS: Given the
3 reality as it is right now, can you commit to
4 make that a reality moving forward, the 225th
5 train station?
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: No. I can commit
7 to -- I can commit to keeping up the
8 incredibly fast pace of ADA station building
9 that we're doing. The prioritization is
10 something -- listen, you may be right, it may
11 be something that ought to be up the priority
12 chain. I just don't know the answer as I sit
13 here, about when it's scheduled.
14 ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS: In
15 addition to that, what promotion has the MTA
16 done for the fare-free pilot program?
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: The fare-free pilot
18 program. Rich, you want to talk about that?
19 Or Shanifah?
20 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Sure.
21 So we've done a lot of promotion.
22 Obviously we sent out -- all of our buses are
23 signed with free fare, and we have obviously
24 the technology, obviously, in the windows,
196
1 for example, and then in the buses
2 themselves.
3 We've had it on our websites so
4 customers know. And given that it was
5 described earlier, we have seen a bit of an
6 uptick in ridership. We have a lot of data
7 that we have to collect. But suffice to say
8 customers know about it.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS: Who's
10 responsible for ensuring that those
11 promotions come to underserved communities so
12 that residents are well informed of the pilot
13 program?
14 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: So yeah, as you
15 know, the Legislature instructed us to pick
16 five routes across each of the five boroughs.
17 So we did that. We looked at, as was asked,
18 you know, demographics, how folks might
19 interact. So that was implemented four and a
20 half months ago --
21 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you
22 very much.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN BURGOS: Thank you.
24 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Sure.
197
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
2 Seawright.
3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT: Thank you,
4 Mr. Chairman and Chair Krueger, and thank you
5 for your leadership.
6 I represent Roosevelt Island and chair
7 the People with Disabilities Committee. And
8 on Roosevelt Island right now there are two
9 elevators in service. One is out. Many of
10 the residents are people with disabilities.
11 They're not able to walk up and down the
12 stairs for two levels.
13 And so I'd like to know, you know,
14 what the MTA is planning to do to bring some
15 relief for these citizens. As well as the
16 F Train shuttle that runs every 20 minutes.
17 There will be no shuttle service at all in
18 three weekends in February.
19 The tram that services the island is
20 the same. Residents have been telling me
21 that the line can stretch all the way to
22 Third Avenue, and it's just not feasible.
23 RIOC has stopped the Red Bus shuttle service
24 on the island to Manhattan and doesn't have
198
1 the capacity to run a shuttle because of the
2 strong demands on the island.
3 The MTA, we've seen, has been very
4 reluctant to offer adequate supplemental
5 service for the residents. So if you could
6 just address this, I would appreciate it.
7 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So a couple of
8 things. One is we're -- we are on schedule
9 with the completion of that trackwork in the
10 63rd Street Tunnel. I'm very pleased about
11 that. And I actually -- our feedback, since
12 we have been working with the community and
13 some of your folks, is that people are --
14 broadly speaking, it's disruptive, but
15 they're satisfied with the shuttle service
16 that we've implemented, number one.
17 Number two, we have driven up the
18 availability rate of our elevators -- it's
19 been a priority for us across the system --
20 to a much higher level than it was before.
21 Many fewer are out of service at any one
22 time. We do have to replace elevators
23 periodically as part of the capital program.
24 Anything else that you can offer on
199
1 the specifics of why that elevator is down?
2 I don't know the answer.
3 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Well, that's
4 literally waitlisted on our website. There's
5 one elevator down because we're doing capital
6 work, so it will be up and running by the end
7 of February.
8 But back to the question of service,
9 though. You know, we have a staff and --
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT: Well, let me
11 just stop you for a second. Back to that, is
12 there any kind of plan? Like I said, it's an
13 island with a lot of people with
14 disabilities. Is there any kind of plan to
15 offer any kind of supplemental addition or
16 service or how to deal with this?
17 NYCT PRESIDENT DAVEY: Yeah, so you
18 just click and there's the travel
19 alternatives for that particular elevator.
20 So -- but again, happy to have a
21 conversation if there's a particular customer
22 or set of customers who have issues.
23 I will say if we do see crowding, we
24 try to send more buses out. We have been
200
1 laser-focused having, you know, operating
2 staff on the ground. But as the chair said,
3 you know, we're -- you know, take just a step
4 back, we're ripping out 40-year-old track.
5 And the good news is this will be done. And
6 I know that it's not easy for our customers
7 to sort of wade through this. My hope is we
8 won't be back for another 40 years by the end
9 of March.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT: There's also
11 other --
12 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you
13 very much. Thank you.
14 Member Walker.
15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER: Good afternoon.
16 So I would like to plus-one my
17 comments with those of my colleague
18 Member Burgos, in the fact that there are a
19 number of my constituents who come into the
20 office on a regular basis with exorbitant
21 fees associated with the bridges and tunnels
22 around New York City -- most of them to the
23 tune of $5,000 or more, and many of them
24 being either threatened by or in the process
201
1 of being adjudicated through some level of
2 debt collection. To wit, we believe it's a
3 huge problem. It's a civil rights issue.
4 It's an attack on the poor. And we're
5 watching now and there are sort of economic
6 ramifications to it, but now as a part of
7 this proposal we are watching law enforcement
8 ramifications become more pervasive.
9 And I would love to continue to have
10 this conversation with you in terms of how do
11 we address removing transportation barriers
12 to the poor when they have to do things like
13 get to school, get to work, get to
14 appointments, and sometimes having to make a
15 tough decision as to whether or not they can
16 afford the transportation fee, or to show up
17 to some other very important matter that they
18 have to get to, up to and including court.
19 So I look forward to speaking with you
20 on that. And I did hear you mention
21 Senator Schumer, who announced at the
22 Broadway Junction some of the federal
23 investments that he's made. With the planned
24 rapid transit project known as the
202
1 Interborough Express, we understand that a
2 number of stops will be made or proposed to
3 the IBX. However, Broadway Junction is not
4 included as one of those stops. Can you
5 please explain to me why?
6 Secondly, thank you very much for a
7 pilot project which is a free bus ride
8 through the B60, which is included in my
9 community, which again addresses poverty. It
10 is scheduled to end on March 30th. I'd like
11 to know more about how successful the program
12 has been and whether or not in this budget we
13 can plan for that to be more permanent as
14 opposed to a pilot project.
15 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So just in the
16 interests of time, because we're running out,
17 I think we've said a couple of times we're
18 going to give you a proper report on the
19 thing. The thing's been -- the experiment's
20 only been going for a few months now. You
21 asked us to study it between six and 12
22 months, and then we're going to give you a
23 full and complete report on it in the next
24 few months when that work has been done.
203
1 On the IBX, the whole issue with
2 Broadway Junction is one of the ability to
3 get access closer to the station, physical
4 access. So we are investing a huge amount of
5 money in making Broadway Junction
6 accessible -- I think $300 million -- and
7 doing a ton of other work. The IBX we can
8 get into it in more detail. The constraint
9 is literally physical and engineering. It's
10 not an oversight.
11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALKER: Thank you.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
13 Mr. Chair. Thank you.
14 Member Pheffer Amato, please.
15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER AMATO: Good
16 afternoon. Thank you for all the help and
17 work that we've been doing together in the
18 community. It's great seeing you, and the
19 improvements, but there's always more to be
20 done.
21 I'm going to just give a plus-one to
22 my -- Members Burgos and Walker talking about
23 the bills and the excessive charges that come
24 with our constituents regardless if it's
204
1 their fault or the system's fault, whatever
2 happens to build up those bills.
3 So then for me, I want to know what
4 we're doing about toll evaders, and what we
5 can -- we as a Legislature can do to increase
6 that enforcement. Is it hiring more TBTA
7 superior officers? Is it a regular basis?
8 And I'm talking about the ones I see on a
9 daily basis. Unlike some of my colleagues,
10 you know, I go over my bridge about eight
11 times a day, and you can see just plain,
12 straight out, scraped-off plates, covered
13 plates. And what can we do to pull those
14 folks over, who should be able to take their
15 car, have a violation. As opposed to, you
16 know, Mrs. Smith, Mr. Rodriguez, who for
17 whatever reason got themselves with a $5,000
18 bill. The fees are incessant. But we have
19 to look at the people that are breaking the
20 law, and I'd like to work closely with you on
21 that.
22 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Yeah, so very
23 quickly, we gave out 3300 summonses last year
24 for covered plates, a dramatic increase. We
205
1 intercepted 50 percent more vehicles than we
2 did last year.
3 The challenge is that we need -- as
4 the Governor has proposed, we need, you know,
5 stronger enforcement tools, a little more
6 bite to the law of when you cover a plate, we
7 can't actually confiscate the illegal plate,
8 which is crazy, if people are using these
9 James Bond devices to cover their plates and
10 so on.
11 So we need a few more tools to get at
12 it. And we are -- we're confident -- we also
13 need to work with the city, because some of
14 this is when people are faking plates on our
15 facilities, they're faking plates or using
16 illegal fake temporary plates and are
17 arrested -- see, that's frequently used in
18 crime. It's a huge crime issue.
19 So we need to be able to work with the
20 city to identify those plates and pull them
21 down in short order. So you've got a
22 specific detailed proposal from the Governor
23 in the budget proposal --
24 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER AMATO: Is there
206
1 an estimate -- I'm sorry. Is there an
2 estimate of how much lost revenue? I mean,
3 that's what we're talking about. We're
4 trying to make an equitable -- you know,
5 that's what my -- Member Burgos was saying
6 that other authorities, they charge $50 a
7 month, but that lost revenue, it shouldn't be
8 on the back of our -- sometimes, you know,
9 our constituents who have --
10 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: The unbillable,
11 we've actually knocked down that number,
12 although the covered plates piece of
13 unbillable has gone up. That's why we're
14 highlighting it so much.
15 So, you know, there's significant
16 dollars. It's 30 -- I think $34 million for
17 unbillable projected in 2023, and that
18 includes a lot of the covered plates.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER AMATO: Thirty-
20 four million?
21 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Thirty-four
22 million.
23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER AMATO: Okay.
24 And I have 10 seconds left --
207
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: And we've upped our
2 success in recovering from recidivists,
3 people who don't pay significantly. Like
4 68 percent of that, of the big owers, we've
5 collected on. And so we're growing our
6 success in collecting, but we need more
7 tools.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
9 sir.
10 (Overtalk.)
11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN PHEFFER AMATO: -- I'll
12 just say QueensLink, QueensLink, QueensLink.
13 (Laughter.)
14 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
15 Member Cunningham.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: How you
17 doing, Mr. Chair? Thank you so much.
18 You mentioned Flatbush earlier, where
19 I represent. Think about this summer with
20 the catastrophic rainfall, climate change,
21 and some of the capital repairs needed at
22 that and other stations. Just wondered what
23 the MTA's plan is in regard to capital
24 repairs, particularly with climate change.
208
1 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Which -- which --
2 in general, capital repairs with respect to
3 climate change?
4 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: Generally,
5 yes, but also Parkside --
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: I'm going to just
7 wave this around a little more. This is like
8 an incredibly detailed analysis of the whole
9 system. Six million components looked at for
10 their vulnerability to climate change and
11 their criticality to the system, and giving
12 us a pathway how to fix it in the next
13 capital program. No one's ever done anything
14 remotely like this.
15 So I'd refer both of us back to that.
16 But, you know, if you're talking about
17 Newkirk Plaza or some of these areas that
18 chronically are overwhelmed by water in these
19 torrential rainfall situations, we have --
20 you know, you and I should talk about it.
21 But we do have a strategy for dealing
22 with specific stations, but the broader issue
23 is the city's incapacity in its storm sewer
24 system. When it goes beyond an inch and
209
1 three-quarters in an hour, they run out of
2 space to get water out of the system. We
3 become the backup reservoir. That screws the
4 system up. But we're getting pretty good at
5 pumping it out.
6 We still need the city to work with us
7 on some localized improvements, and that's
8 what we should talk about with you.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: Thank you.
10 So we'll definitely circle back with the
11 Q Train and Parkside Avenue, to be more
12 specific about the train station.
13 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Parkside. Okay,
14 Parkside, yeah. We're --
15 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: We're in the
16 same neighborhood.
17 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: This is my line. I
18 know.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: Got it.
20 And the other question is really about
21 the app service. I find myself not using the
22 MTA app as much as I use Google or other
23 ones. What improvements are you making,
24 particularly with folks --
210
1 (Overtalk.)
2 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: You know, we
3 have --
4 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: -- in
5 technology?
6 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Shanifah, take it
7 away. We're with you.
8 MTA CCO RIEARA: Again, yeah, we are
9 all in alignment with that.
10 And that is something, you know,
11 similar to our riders on the railroad got; we
12 launched TrainTime over a year ago. We want
13 to bring the transit app into the modern-day
14 history. So we are working on releasing,
15 within the next month or two, a new version
16 that we hope to sort of touch on, you know,
17 all the functions and features that our
18 customers want, with the goal of continuing
19 to look at it, and continue to build on that
20 as we move along.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: And I guess
22 to follow up on that question, particularly
23 with OMNY service now in almost full effect,
24 if you would, how is the integration with the
211
1 app and now being able to pay for your
2 transportation through the app going to work,
3 if possible?
4 MTA CCO RIEARA: Well, that's further
5 down the line.
6 But, I mean, we are now focused on
7 OMNY penetration and getting people to use
8 OMNY. We have lots of customer messaging.
9 There's no shortage of -- you enter the
10 system, OMNY is everywhere. And we have
11 moved away from the concept to the
12 physical -- just encouraging people to tap.
13 Because before, people were like, what is
14 OMNY? Do I have to sign up for something?
15 Do I have to download something?
16 So we are now really focusing on the
17 mechanics and letting people know how to use
18 it.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: Thank you so
20 much. I'll be in touch.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you
22 very much.
23 This concludes the questioning of the
24 MTA. Well done. Thank you very much for
212
1 being here. We appreciate it. And I'm sure
2 there may be some follow-ups from various
3 people, and we'll get in touch with you. We
4 appreciate all your time.
5 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: So and just in
6 closing, may I just remind everybody that we
7 are doing tours, regularly, of the system to
8 try to familiarize everybody with the
9 conditions that we're all talking about that
10 are reflected in this 20-year needs
11 assessment.
12 So Mr. Comrie, thank you for coming to
13 several of those. We just invite everybody
14 to come and take a look at -- because this is
15 going to be an important capital program. We
16 want you to see what we're all dealing with
17 as we head into next year.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay, thank you
19 very much.
20 MTA CHAIR LIEBER: Thank you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And we want DOT
22 to come on in.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: DOT, come on
24 down.
213
1 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And also, please,
2 if any legislators have questions for the
3 MTA, take them out in the hallway so we
4 aren't delaying moving forward with the
5 Department of Transportation.
6 (Off the record.)
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Commissioner,
8 you're sitting there all by yourself. I'm
9 impressed. I am very impressed.
10 Listen, if you're ready to go, we're
11 ready to start. The floor is yours, ma'am.
12 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Good
13 afternoon, Chairpersons Krueger, Kennedy,
14 Magnarelli, and members of the Legislature.
15 On behalf of Governor Kathy Hochul, I'd like
16 to thank you for inviting me here to talk
17 about the State Department of Transportation,
18 our people, the communities we serve, and how
19 the work that we do makes a positive
20 difference in the lives of all New Yorkers.
21 I'd like to begin by saluting the
22 dedicated members of the DOT team, who are
23 always there, regardless of the challenge.
24 For the last two weeks our crews have been
214
1 working around the clock to clear relentless
2 amounts of snow in Watertown and the North
3 Country, and certainly in Buffalo, where I
4 saw firsthand the great lengths they'll go to
5 ensure the safety of the communities that
6 they serve.
7 Our people are the heart and soul of
8 our agency. They make me enormously proud,
9 and they deserve our thanks.
10 I like to think of transportation
11 acrss New York as an integrated system. No
12 matter if it's transit, rail, aviation, roads
13 and bridges, or bike and pedestrian pathways,
14 all these systems are working together to
15 better the lives of New Yorkers. At the
16 heart of all of this is the Department of
17 Transportation. And thanks to your support,
18 we accomplished a great deal last year.
19 Because of Governor Hochul's
20 leadership and your continued support,
21 New York is investing more in its
22 infrastructure than at any time in our
23 history. Our department is busy putting
24 these investments to work.
215
1 In 2023 alone, we improved 1586 lane
2 miles along state and local highways. That
3 represents $754 million of investment in our
4 roadways. The resurfacing included over
5 500 lane miles of improvements that were
6 funded from Governor Hochul's Pave Our
7 Potholes program.
8 Additionally, New York State DOT
9 replaced or improved 2,833 bridges statewide,
10 totaling $1.7 billion worth of investment
11 that enhanced safety, improved
12 sustainability, and boosted resiliency
13 against severe weather impacts.
14 In the face of a litany of challenges
15 this past year, DOT executed projects across
16 the state under our five-year capital plan
17 while planning forward for the future of
18 New York's transportation system with the
19 kickoff of our statewide master plan,
20 currently in development and in process.
21 From the Bronx to Buffalo, New York is
22 reconnecting communities in innovative ways
23 to carry out Governor Hochul's vision not
24 only for what transportation is, but what it
216
1 could be and what it will be.
2 This past summer we announced the
3 completion of Phase 2 and the beginning of
4 Phase 3 of our Hunts Point Improvement
5 Project, which rehabilitated and created new
6 connections on key sections of the
7 Bruckner Expressway and Bruckner Boulevard to
8 establish a more direct route to the Hunts
9 Point Market and also to provide a shared-use
10 path to create added opportunities for
11 walking and biking.
12 We broke ground on the transformative
13 Interstate 81 Viaduct project in Syracuse,
14 which will reconnect the city's divided
15 neighborhoods and create a community grid
16 that will enhance mobility throughout the
17 region and improve access to the city's
18 downtown destinations.
19 We're also advancing reconnecting
20 communities projects like the Kensington
21 Expressway in Buffalo and the replacement of
22 the Livingston Avenue rail bridge in the
23 Capital Region, both of which will create a
24 greener, more sustainable transportation
217
1 system that will enhance quality of life for
2 the communities that they serve.
3 And this year the Executive Budget
4 provides nearly $7.6 billion for the third
5 year of a record $32.8 billion, five-year
6 capital plan to facilitate capital
7 improvements on highways, bridges, rail,
8 aviation infrastructure, non-MTA transit, and
9 DOT facilities. In the first year of the
10 five-year capital plan, $230 million was
11 provided to enhance nine regional airports
12 upstate, and an additional award of
13 $49 million was made in 2023 for
14 36 public-use airports across New York.
15 Additionally, the Executive Budget
16 provides $8.8 billion in mass transit
17 operating support, including $551 million to
18 non-MTA downstate transit systems and
19 $323 million to upstate transit systems, a
20 5.4 percent increase in transit operating
21 assistance.
22 We're also working aggressively to
23 implement the goals of the Climate Leadership
24 and Community Protection Act. In partnership
218
1 with NYPA and NYSERDA, DOT is a national
2 leader in leveraging the $175 million
3 New York will receive over the next five
4 years for the National Electric Vehicle
5 Infrastructure program, to further advance EV
6 charging infrastructure on our interstate
7 highways. This December, New York became one
8 of two states to open the nation's first
9 NEVI-funded EV charging stations.
10 Smart climate policies also mean
11 building a resilient infrastructure for the
12 future, which is why we're investing
13 $1 billion in bridges and culverts under the
14 capital plan through the Bridge NY program.
15 The first round of Bridge NY funds made
16 available went to 115 bridge projects and
17 101 culvert projects. The second round
18 kicked off this past November, and
19 municipalities are making their project
20 recommendations right now.
21 The department also has initiated a
22 statewide culvert resiliency program, known
23 as CRoSS, which will ultimately improve
24 resiliency at 422 locations around the state.
219
1 Building for a greener future also
2 means encouraging other forms of
3 transportation beyond cars. That's why we're
4 advocating and advancing DOT's Active
5 Transportation Plan, which will focus on how
6 we enhance and develop pedestrian and bicycle
7 infrastructure.
8 Last year DOT received $5 million for
9 Complete Streets planning that is now being
10 used to support projects in communities
11 interested in improving bicycle and
12 pedestrian opportunities in underserved
13 communities across the state.
14 Let me also mention that DOT inspects
15 our bridges across New York State every two
16 years to make sure that not only are they
17 safe, but that they are in good working
18 order. And after the pandemic-related
19 delays, we've posted all the results of those
20 inspections and the conditions on our
21 website, and they are available.
22 Let me close where I began, with our
23 workers, because nothing is more important to
24 us than the safety of our DOT team members.
220
1 In April, legislation adopted by the
2 Legislature and signed by Governor Hochul
3 allowed DOT to work with the industry,
4 organized labor, and the Thruway Authority to
5 kick off the Automated Work Zone Speed
6 Monitoring Pilot Program to help enforce
7 speed limits in highway construction and
8 maintenance work zones across the state.
9 Through the end of December, the
10 department issued more than 102,000 notices
11 of violations to motorists, including one who
12 was clocked at going 139 miles per hour --
13 139 miles per hour on Route 104 in the
14 Town of Irondequoit. This was matched by a
15 similar speed on Long Island, on the
16 Long Island Expressway.
17 We're currently collecting and
18 analyzing all the data, but our workers are
19 already reporting a noticeable reduction in
20 overall speeds at our work sites. I look
21 forward to continuing this pilot program in
22 the coming construction season, because we
23 know it's making a difference. And we'll be
24 reporting back to the Legislature on our
221
1 findings.
2 What I've laid out today is just a
3 small sample of the work our team at the
4 New York State Department of Transportation
5 undertakes each day as we fulfill our mission
6 to provide a safe, reliable, equitable, and
7 resilient transportation system that connects
8 communities, protects the environment,
9 enhances quality of life, and supports the
10 economic well-being of the State of New York.
11 We're proud to be a partner in building a
12 better future for all New Yorkers.
13 Thank you again for the opportunity to
14 join you today. I'm happy to answer any
15 questions.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you
17 very much, Commissioner.
18 And I'm going to start off the
19 questioning here, and not really on -- thank
20 you for all the things that you covered. I'm
21 sure there's a lot of questions there. I'm
22 sure I have a lot of questions. But I'm
23 going to get to a couple of things that are
24 kind of questions to me, okay?
222
1 First of all, in the Governor's budget
2 there is a proposed sale of property in the
3 Town of Babylon. Okay? And this is a kind
4 of an ideal -- a theoretical, philosophical
5 problem. There's a proposed Article VII
6 provision that would authorize DOT to
7 transfer and convey certain state-owned
8 property within the Town of Babylon,
9 Suffolk County, upon such terms and
10 conditions as the commissioner deems
11 appropriate.
12 Are the parcels identified in the
13 Article VII considered surplus property? And
14 if they are surplus property, why aren't they
15 being handled through the surplus property
16 process already in place? What does the
17 department plan to do with this property? Is
18 there already an agreement to use this land,
19 and if so, what?
20 The language of the proposal lacks a
21 number of provisions which were included in
22 prior chapters involving a DOT land transfer
23 and conveyance -- for example, specifying the
24 entity to which the transfer is being made, a
223
1 stated public purpose, a set time for
2 application and closing, and reversion of the
3 land to the state if the land ceases to be
4 used for state public purposes.
5 Is there any reason for omitting these
6 provisions? And if so, could you walk us
7 through it? Also, we'd like to have a copy
8 of the tax map showing the two parcels
9 proposed to be transferred by this
10 Article VII. That we could do later. But
11 basically you see what I'm getting at.
12 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Mm-hmm.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: So can you
14 fill us in?
15 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Sure.
16 I think the overall intent of the
17 legislation is to make sure that there's
18 provisions in law to actually do any transfer
19 of DOT property correctly. And under the
20 provisions of law right now, there has to be
21 some additional clarification. So that was
22 the intent, was to try and make sure that we
23 had it in --
24 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: But, I mean,
224
1 any other state --
2 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We're
3 happy to work with you --
4 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: -- state
5 agency or -- for example, the Department of
6 Education or whatever, if they own a piece of
7 property, it has to go through a certain
8 process. And the people of the State of
9 New York have to know who you're selling it
10 to, what are the terms, what are the purposes
11 for which we're giving away this land -- I'm
12 not saying giving away -- or selling land.
13 What are the terms.
14 So you're basically saying this is
15 just a change, you want an overall change.
16 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: What
17 we're looking for is to make sure that we
18 have the opportunity to look at whatever
19 conveyance may be available.
20 And so we would do it in full
21 transparency. Happy to work with you on the
22 legislation and how it actually is phrased.
23 But making sure that any conveyance of DOT
24 property not only looks at current state
225
1 provisions, but also the federal provisions.
2 We also have to abide by that in case any of
3 the property was actually purchased with
4 federal dollars.
5 So we're looking for a framework to
6 make sure that we actually convey it
7 properly.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. I'm
9 not getting any specifics on the sale of
10 property to Babylon -- from Babylon or to
11 Babylon or whatever.
12 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well, I
13 think part of it is to actually look to
14 see -- it's not just the Town of Babylon, but
15 there's other opportunities across the state
16 to look at --
17 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Can you tell
18 me what the reason for this is at this point
19 in time?
20 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well, as
21 the Governor outlined in her proposal, in her
22 State of the State proposal, there are state
23 properties across the state that could be
24 looked at for either housing or other
226
1 opportunities to actually make sure that we
2 are addressing the economic development
3 concerns, other -- wider.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: And I don't
5 think I have a problem with those types of
6 purposes if in fact we're going to build out
7 more units for the people of the State of
8 New York. But I'd like to know who's going
9 to own those units, what is the sales price
10 of the property, the particulars of what is
11 going on in that.
12 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So, sir,
13 I don't think any of those have been
14 developed at this point in time, to my
15 knowledge. I think this is simply a
16 conveyance mechanism to make sure that should
17 something be developed in the future, there's
18 legislation in place to make sure that the
19 State Department of Transportation has the
20 legal authority to actually transfer
21 property.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. But
23 you're taking away the oversight that's
24 already built into the laws to look at these
227
1 things before the property is transferred.
2 And so -- I mean, that's the proposal.
3 You're not doing it, Commissioner. But I
4 mean that's the proposal in the Article VII,
5 is basically to say the commissioner can make
6 the determination. Okay?
7 Right now there are procedures that
8 have to be gone through, and you're looking
9 to bypass those procedures.
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'd be
11 happy to sit down and go through with you --
12 I know you're a property expert. I know you
13 are. I know that you're a real -- literally,
14 real property expert. But to be clear on
15 what the intent and the purpose is. It's not
16 to bypass. It's literally to provide some --
17 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: I think
18 that's what I'm asking. You know, what is
19 the intent. I'm not saying anything's wrong
20 here. But maybe there's a procedure whereby
21 the Legislature and the public gets to know
22 beforehand --
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:
24 Absolutely.
228
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: -- what's
2 being transferred.
3 Okay, another question, something
4 that's really bothering me. I was reading in
5 a New York Times article I think this
6 weekend -- I believe it was this weekend.
7 Sometimes I save these things too long -- but
8 talking about dangerous driving. Now, you
9 alluded to what happened when we put up the
10 pilot program in the work zones, okay? All
11 right. Based on recent articles, it appears
12 that there are greater traffic fatalities,
13 incidents of speeding, distracted driving,
14 et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It's not
15 only on our state highways, it's on our city
16 streets.
17 What is the department doing to combat
18 these trends? Has the department noticed an
19 increase in these statistics too?
20 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We have.
21 This is a nationwide trend. And I can tell
22 you the level of distraction across the board
23 is manifested in a whole bunch of different
24 ways, from the excessive speeds that I just
229
1 noted in our work zones -- and again, we're
2 grateful to the Legislature and
3 Governor Hochul for the opportunity to
4 pilot automated work zone speed enforcement.
5 We really do think it's making a huge
6 difference.
7 When we look at bridge hits across the
8 state, people are not paying attention -- or
9 if they are, they're paying attention to
10 their GPS device and it's giving them
11 incorrect information. There is an enorm --
12 and pedestrians, even, are not paying
13 attention when they're walking across the
14 street.
15 In the post-COVID environment we have
16 seen an incredible amount of distracted as
17 well as aggressive driving.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Aggressive
19 driving, that was the article. It was mostly
20 aggressive driving. And, you know, venting
21 on the road, so to speak.
22 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So part
23 of what we're doing is not only making sure
24 that we're taking a very holistic approach as
230
1 we design roadways, whether that's a
2 Complete Streets view of everything to make
3 sure that pedestrian, bike, motorist, truck,
4 everyone's got a clear view from geometric
5 levels as well as, you know, safe crossings,
6 crosswalks, lighting, et cetera -- that whole
7 view, that holistic view of roadway
8 construction. But more importantly, to help
9 with education and information sharing and
10 enforcement.
11 So I can tell you we're working with
12 the Governor's Traffic Safety Council and
13 other entities to make sure that the level of
14 enforcement and awareness for people is
15 there. So whether that's e-bike safety on
16 speeds or bridge hits -- we've got a task
17 force looking at that, to actually do some
18 additional enforcement and education -- but
19 also just general awareness for people who
20 are using our roadways. Our VMS signs, we're
21 trying to do everything we can to bring
22 awareness to the driver to pay attention.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: I agree with
24 you wholeheartedly. You know how I feel
231
1 about cameras: Bring them on. I'm okay with
2 that. You know, I don't understand -- we
3 need to get speed down in many places. I
4 think being distracted and speeding
5 definitely don't work together. So I
6 appreciate those comments.
7 Next I'm going to turn it over to my
8 good Senator next to me, Senator Krueger.
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
10 much. Good afternoon.
11 And I'm going to hand it over to our
12 Transportation chair, Timothy Kennedy.
13 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you,
14 Chairwoman. Commissioner, welcome. Thank
15 you. Thank you for your testimony. Thank
16 you for your work. You and your team have
17 been great partners and have been very
18 responsive anytime myself and my team have
19 reached out. So we certainly appreciate that
20 responsiveness and your partnership and
21 leadership.
22 I've got a lot to talk about with you,
23 so I'm going to get right to it. You know,
24 in 2022 we approved the $32.8 billion
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1 five-year capital plan. Can you provide us
2 with an update on the implementation of that
3 plan and speak to the new needs that have
4 arisen?
5 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So with
6 regard to the capital plan, indeed it was a
7 record-level capital plan, 32.8 billion to a
8 committed five-year capital plan.
9 One, we're very grateful.
10 Two, it represented an increase of
11 about $9.4 billion, or 40.2 percent, over the
12 prior five-year capital plan. It provided
13 steady funding, which the Department of
14 Transportation is executing on. It provided
15 an unprecedented level of state support for
16 local governments -- so $6.1 billion over the
17 five-year period, which is about a
18 3.4 billion increase over the previous plan.
19 So what I mean by local, I mean CHIPS,
20 PAVE, EWR, all of those dollars increased
21 under this five-year capital plan. It
22 allocates about a $1.4 billion amount over
23 the period for renewal and modernization of
24 not just our roads and bridges, but also
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1 public transportation, passenger rail and
2 freight rail, as well as airport
3 infrastructure.
4 And in the process, DOT is executing
5 on that. We've gotten Year 1 down, Year 2
6 down in the first and second years of the
7 five-year program. We have about
8 5,474 rehabilitated or improved bridges,
9 117 bridges have been completely
10 reconstructed, 3700 lane miles of pavement
11 have been constructed and improved in the
12 first two years.
13 And what we anticipate for this coming
14 year is about 100 bridges are going to be
15 constructed, and 2700 bridges are going to be
16 improved.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you,
18 Commissioner. Let me continue, because we're
19 short on time.
20 Talk to me and us about the
21 inflationary pressures that have impacted the
22 execution of the plan.
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well,
24 like everything, you know, inflation has
234
1 impacted the world of transportation and
2 certainly transportation infrastructure,
3 along with supply chain issues.
4 That said, it has not stopped the
5 department from executing on the capital plan
6 as laid out, both Year 1, Year 2, and now
7 we're in the process of executing Year 3.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: That said, do you
9 believe that further funding is necessary to
10 execute the plan?
11 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: What
12 we're doing right now is monitoring the
13 inflationary rates. We've seen that
14 inflation has steadied over the last
15 half-year, and look to see what the overall
16 impacts are on the course of the program.
17 And again, execute what we have. It's
18 a funded capital plan. And work with the
19 Legislature as we -- you know, and we're
20 doing it according to the provisions of the
21 MOU.
22 SENATOR KENNEDY: So it's a five-year
23 plan, and inflation that has been in the
24 double digits -- some estimates, over
235
1 20 percent -- that would cut into a capital
2 plan greatly.
3 So, you know, we have been working
4 diligently to identify a number. We believe
5 that number is $400 million -- I know that
6 we've been in conversations about this, and
7 others -- in order to rectify that inflation
8 hole that's been created. Is that a number
9 that you think you could work with to help
10 that gap that's been created?
11 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Senator,
12 I think, as I said before, what we're trying
13 to do is work across the board to monitor the
14 impacts of inflation and see how that will
15 actually play out over the course of the
16 entirety of the five-year capital plan,
17 because many things happen, and work to see
18 exactly what the funding levels would be
19 across the board.
20 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
21 So last year we increased CHIPS
22 funding and State Touring Routes funding by
23 $100 million. That was taken away in the
24 budget that was proposed. Obviously we want
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1 to see that restored. We are going to be
2 working to restore that. I think the
3 communities need it. And I think a
4 demonstration of the need for that isn't just
5 on the conditions but also when you see the
6 weather patterns that you cited in your
7 testimony -- again, thank you for your
8 leadership in responding in Buffalo and
9 Western New York. Just last week we know
10 that the DOT came in to be very helpful to
11 the local community.
12 That being said, it's those quick
13 thaws, quick freezing moments that are, you
14 know, wreaking havoc on our roads and our
15 infrastructure. But this isn't just Western
16 New York, this is statewide.
17 Do you feel that you have the proper
18 amount of funding necessary to resolve these
19 local road issues already?
20 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I know
21 that at the end of last session the
22 Legislature and the Executive agreed to the
23 add that you referenced for those programs.
24 You know, I expect that anything along those
237
1 lines will again take place amongst the
2 Legislature and the Executive for those
3 dollars.
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: So we have to
5 negotiate it. We expect to do that. Thank
6 you.
7 I want to switch gears here. You
8 mentioned the recent reports that were put
9 out. Can you just speak to those again and
10 the conditions and what you're seeing and,
11 you know, just sort of the makeup of the
12 report that was released?
13 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So we
14 have a variety of reports that we look at
15 across the board for the Department of
16 Transportation. The one that you're
17 referencing is the Graber Report; it's on
18 bridge conditions. We were delayed in
19 getting the report out. It is now posted on
20 our website, it's fully -- it's up there.
21 And it does speak to the state of the overall
22 condition of our bridges.
23 I will say that the bottom line is
24 that the Department of Transportation in
238
1 New York State, we inspect our bridges every
2 two years. We have eyes on them. We want to
3 make sure that they're safe, and that goes
4 for local bridges as well. And I will say
5 that, you know, I sit at the national level
6 as well; there are a lot of states that don't
7 inspect bridges as frequently as we do.
8 So we collect an enormous amount of
9 data, and we're very informed on our asset
10 management practices, so we look at what
11 needs to be addressed based on what we're
12 finding, the safety factors, et cetera. So
13 that's -- it helps us inform how we actually
14 allocate our dollars and how we actually
15 allocate our priorities.
16 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
17 The New York State Public Transit
18 Association has been coalescing around a
19 15 percent increase in STOA for non-MTA
20 regions of the state. What's been proposed
21 is less than that. Has the DOT looked at
22 revenue enhancements to meet that higher
23 number to achieve a larger increase for STOA?
24 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well, as
239
1 you know, the non-MTA areas -- first of all,
2 MTA, as you heard directly from them this
3 morning, they've got different ways of
4 actually collecting monies directly from
5 localities to actually fund their programs in
6 different ways than the upstate systems do.
7 And so when you talk about on-budget,
8 off-budget revenue collections, it is
9 different. And we have provided, over the
10 years, and have had a lot of consultation
11 with the upstate transit systems on how
12 exactly we can further improve and look at
13 some other revenue sources.
14 I think that discussion needs to
15 continue. There's -- you know, there's a
16 larger debate here on how do you actually pay
17 for these systems. But I think this
18 Executive Budget that Governor Hochul put
19 forward is a huge step in the right direction
20 with the increase that she did put forward, a
21 5.4 percent increase for upstate transit
22 systems.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yeah, look, a
24 dedicated revenue source is so important
240
1 because we know what we've seen already with
2 the rental car fee that goes directly into
3 public transit. It has certainly boosted the
4 amount of funding that upstate transit's been
5 able to achieve on a year-to-year basis.
6 Along those same lines as well, as it
7 pertains to public transit -- and I'm just
8 going to talk very hyperlocal here in the
9 last remaining moments here -- the NFTA has
10 the only light rail outside of the City of
11 New York in the State of New York, and that
12 rail is looking at a new five-year capital
13 plan for $150 million. They are also looking
14 at a need for a sustained level of funding.
15 What can we do to make that happen?
16 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'll say
17 that, you know, the --
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Sorry,
19 that's -- you're going to have to get back to
20 the good Senator.
21 SENATOR KENNEDY: We'll come back to
22 it. We'll come back to it in Round 2, okay?
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Yeah.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Next we're
241
1 going to have Member Miller, who is sitting
2 in for the ranking member on the
3 Transportation Committee, so he will be
4 taking the place of the chair.
5 Mr. Miller.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN MILLER: Thank you,
7 Mr. Magnarelli.
8 Thank you, Chairman. We've had many,
9 many conversations about CHIPS, about
10 bridges, about highways. And I know the
11 Senator talked about CHIPS funding over
12 there, but I'm going to talk about it some
13 more.
14 And I'm just going to make a
15 statement, and I've heard this when I first
16 came here to the Assembly. We barely fund
17 our highways and bridges to manage the
18 decline. And that's how I've felt for a long
19 time in New York State. You know, we've been
20 on a decline, and we need to fund our bridge
21 and road programs in a much higher rate.
22 So the questions. You know, the
23 Governor's proposed a 10 percent decrease to
24 CHIPS funding. With inflation about
242
1 25 percent, construction and materials, are
2 you concerned that the Executive Budget has
3 no increases to and actually reduces the
4 support for local roads and bridge programs?
5 You know, I come from the town
6 supervisor at the county level, and our
7 localities rely on these CHIPS programs for
8 all their highway work. What's your feelings
9 on it?
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well, I
11 can tell you that -- I'll state what I stated
12 before, which is that when you look at the
13 totality of this five-year program that we
14 have, capital program, it is truly historic.
15 I understand what you're saying about the --
16 you know, there was an add last year.
17 But the bottom line is is having five
18 years' worth of consistent funding that -- in
19 an agreed-upon MOU between the Legislature
20 and the Executive on how to spend those
21 dollars statewide, is truly a good place to
22 be, in the sense that we know what the assets
23 are, we know what the condition is, we are --
24 we have planned for where we're going, we
243
1 know how we can spend. There's certainty in
2 that process both for the state and for the
3 local entities, local DPWs.
4 And we can take on those assets' road
5 and bridge conditions across the state by
6 having that certainty in the funding. And
7 with that, we can plan accordingly. And
8 that's what we've done.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MILLER: Okay, just
10 looking at the five-year plan, and not having
11 a crystal ball in front of us, you know, a
12 lot of the planning engineers, whoever, were
13 able to come up with a dollar figure, not
14 based on a 25 percent increase in materials
15 and construction costs. And, you know, the
16 cost of petroleum has gone up, which reduces
17 the amount of lane miles that we can pave.
18 Do you feel that should have been
19 adjusted or there should have been an
20 adjustment along the way a little bit?
21 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We
22 actually, for New York State DOT, and working
23 with our contractors, we have actually
24 adjusted for some of those inflationary costs
244
1 for fuel and materials in our prices,
2 recognizing what's happened over the course
3 of this last year.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN MILLER: Okay, we're going
5 to switch over to my second favorite topic,
6 which is bridges and structures. I know we
7 had a discussion on this the other day.
8 The Governor has proposed $200 million
9 for BRIDGE NY this year, the same as last
10 year. Is this efficient, given that 1580 of
11 the bridges throughout the state, 9 percent
12 of our bridge assets, are
13 classified structurally deficient?
14 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So, first
15 of all, that number represents 100 million
16 more, year over year, in this five-year plan.
17 It's a billion dollars worth of investment in
18 bridges. It is the most significant
19 investment in bridges statewide that we've
20 ever seen.
21 We're matching the federal dollars
22 that we received from the bipartisan
23 infrastructure legislation with a record
24 amount at the state level. And it's truly a
245
1 historic level of investment.
2 Given that, we actually have to,
3 again, utilize our asset management system to
4 make sure that those dollars are going to
5 make sure that we're addressing the safety
6 issues first across our entire inventory of
7 bridges.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MILLER: Okay. We all
9 know that we're going to see a sea of orange
10 here in a few weeks asking for additional
11 CHIPS funding put back there, and hopefully
12 we can get back there, Commissioner. And I'm
13 sure you agree on that.
14 Thank you.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Done.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay, so now we
17 are handing it over to our Authorities chair,
18 Corporations and Authorities, Leroy Comrie.
19 SENATOR COMRIE: Good afternoon,
20 Commissioner. Happy New Year.
21 I wanted to -- can you tell us if the
22 department is meeting its MWBE goal of
23 30 percent, and what percentage is being
24 achieved? And can you provide the
246
1 participation rates by DOT region?
2 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Sir, I
3 can tell you that we are -- we're doing a lot
4 on our MWBE and DBE goals. We are getting
5 closer every year, but the percentage of
6 increase is incremental, and we're working on
7 it right now.
8 Two of the things that we have done is
9 create a WorkSmart NY program where we're
10 literally going to every single community
11 around the state to engage our MWBE partners
12 and talk to them specifically one on one, and
13 in forums, to talk about how we do business
14 with New York State DOT. We've put
15 provisions in some of our very large
16 contracts that we're executing right now to
17 really go aggressively after both diversity
18 hiring goals as well as MWBE participation in
19 some of our larger contracts like the
20 Syracuse contract on I-81.
21 All of that said, we've got more work
22 to do. We're also executing a mentoring
23 program this year to try and make sure that
24 we're working -- we're matching those larger
247
1 companies with companies that are interested
2 in doing transportation work. Because there
3 is opportunity, and we need to grow that
4 opportunity.
5 SENATOR COMRIE: And you can send us
6 the specific numbers later.
7 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Yes.
8 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
9 Two other questions. I thought I had
10 10 minutes.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: You do.
12 SENATOR COMRIE: Okay, good.
13 Can you tell us so that we can make
14 sure that New Yorkers that are now getting
15 these automatic speed ticketing fines -- how
16 are they notified of this ticketing issue?
17 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: The
18 automated work zone speed cameras? There's a
19 notice of violation that's sent, it's a
20 picture that's taken of the license plate,
21 and it's sent directly to the license plate
22 owner.
23 SENATOR COMRIE: Okay. And will there
24 be an opportunity for those speed camera
248
1 locations to be discoverable on Google Maps
2 or --
3 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Every day
4 that we are working -- every day that cameras
5 are posted in a work zone, it is -- we put it
6 on our website, New York State DOT website.
7 Everybody can see exactly where the cameras
8 are going to be statewide during construction
9 season. So it's very transparent.
10 SENATOR COMRIE: And just another
11 question on ticketing and fines.
12 Have we been able to integrate your
13 fine issues and ticketing resolution with the
14 Thruway Authority and MTA? As has been
15 stated by a few members earlier, we have a
16 major problem with people getting really
17 major fines and fees that are leveraged upon
18 them when they miss or a credit card has
19 expired and they're not aware of it.
20 Sometimes they wind up with thousands of
21 dollars in fees, and then the fines are
22 triple that, and they just can't afford to
23 pay it.
24 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We don't
249
1 have the same type of system that the MTA and
2 the Thruway are using. We're doing an
3 immediate notice of violation, and it's
4 basically a ticket with a set amount and it
5 goes directly to the person that received the
6 infraction.
7 And then we're working through local
8 government, local county judges for
9 enforcement, as opposed to some of the
10 infractions where if you don't pay, some of
11 the other collection services that the
12 Thruway and MTA have.
13 SENATOR COMRIE: So people wind up
14 with thousands of dollars in fees. Is there
15 a percentage or a process for them to be able
16 to eradicate some of the fines?
17 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: There is,
18 but I don't have the details of it and I'll
19 have to get back to you.
20 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
21 And just help me out, what's the
22 stated percentage of good repair that you
23 estimate that's within the state roadwork
24 now?
250
1 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: How much
2 we're collecting?
3 SENATOR COMRIE: No, just the
4 percentage of roadways that are in a state of
5 good repair within the state or that need
6 repair coming. Of the roadways and bridges
7 especially upstate, how many of them are in a
8 state of good repair?
9 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Right now
10 the state of good repair for our roads across
11 the board is -- we probably have close to
12 75 percent of our roads are in good or
13 excellent condition.
14 SENATOR COMRIE: And then I ask this
15 question every year. Are you embedding fiber
16 into your roads, especially upstate where
17 they need last-mile, first-mile opportunities
18 for wifi?
19 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We are.
20 We've been working very aggressively with
21 fibre companies in particular to carry out
22 the Governor's statewide initiative to
23 include broadband and fiber-optic
24 opportunities for people both in rural and
251
1 urban areas. And so we've streamlined our
2 processes in a number of ways in working with
3 the fiber companies, including putting
4 surveys online --
5 SENATOR COMRIE: Do you have an
6 estimate of how many -- how much roadway was
7 done, how many miles were done with fiber
8 optics?
9 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I don't,
10 but I can get back to you.
11 SENATOR COMRIE: And can you explain
12 DOT's policy on projecting asset use, the
13 level of service, when prioritizing funding
14 and preparing capital plans?
15 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'm so
16 sorry, sir, I'm having a really tough time
17 hearing you.
18 SENATOR COMRIE: Can you explain DOT's
19 policy on projecting asset use, called level
20 of service, when prioritizing funding and
21 preparing your capital plan?
22 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So our
23 level of service literally goes through --
24 it's one of the components that we look at in
252
1 our asset management process. So how many
2 vehicle miles traveled, the -- you know, the
3 density of the population, a whole bunch of
4 factors that go into it.
5 SENATOR COMRIE: And what percentage
6 of capital projects that you're doing
7 currently use design-build procurement?
8 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well, it
9 depends on the project itself and whether or
10 not -- you know, we look at what the
11 parameters are, how we can best get what we
12 need for the project in terms of best use of
13 taxpayer dollars, the efficiency of the
14 design process, and the construction process.
15 But it's traditionally used for I
16 would say some of our bigger projects, to
17 make sure that we can get some of the best
18 ideas out there as well as the best,
19 efficient use of our funding.
20 SENATOR COMRIE: And --
21 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I don't
22 have a percentage. Is that what you asked?
23 SENATOR COMRIE: Yeah.
24 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: But I can
253
1 get you one.
2 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
3 And just on also -- one of your
4 initiatives from a previous budget involved
5 accelerating construction lettings from the
6 fourth quarter to the third quarter. Is
7 that -- are you still doing those,
8 accelerating letting statewide? And do you
9 have any information on the results of that
10 change? And was the state able to deliver
11 more projects at reduced cost using that
12 methodology?
13 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: What
14 we're doing right now is trying to get our
15 program out as quickly as possible. So we
16 have accelerated a number of projects this
17 year. And we're getting third quarter out
18 right now, and we're working on fourth
19 quarter as well.
20 Fourth quarter is going to be
21 extremely heavy. A lot of projects are
22 coming out in the fourth quarter of this
23 fiscal year.
24 SENATOR COMRIE: And can you talk
254
1 about the STOA funding? I want to support my
2 upstate colleagues in making sure that we can
3 ensure that all of our upstate highways are
4 cleared and cleaned and maintained. Can you
5 tell us about how effectively the STOA
6 funding was used last year?
7 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I can't
8 hear you. The what kind of funding?
9 SENATOR COMRIE: The STOA funding.
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: STOA.
11 STOA funding is being used across the board
12 to make sure that we're working with our
13 upstate transit colleagues on specific areas.
14 So last year we had some specific investments
15 on -- for some of the upstate transit
16 projects. All of that has been invested.
17 We've also got an Innovative Mobility
18 Fund that the Legislature passed, and we're
19 executing that right now. You'll see some
20 announcements on that this spring.
21 But it's a great way forward on -- the
22 Governor continues to invest in upstate
23 transit funding.
24 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you. And we
255
1 want to continue to see that increased as
2 well. It's an important part of our state's
3 opportunity to encourage tourism and upstate
4 travel. So I hope that we can get that
5 increased as well.
6 I'm done.
7 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I
8 apologize, sir. It just --
9 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you. Thank you
10 for your service, Commissioner. Thank you.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 Assembly.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member Fahy.
14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Thank you, Chair.
15 Thank you, Commissioner. Appreciate
16 all the work you're doing -- especially, as
17 you mentioned, in meeting our climate goals.
18 And it seems like we have a weather-related
19 disaster every week or two, so thank you for
20 the work of you and your very busy team.
21 Much appreciated.
22 Just a couple of other things. Thank
23 you as well for noting the traffic safety and
24 your emphasis on speed, which is a huge
256
1 issue, given the increase in pedestrian and
2 bike deaths. Also thank you in your
3 testimony for mentioning the Livingston
4 Avenue Bridge, the long-overdue bridge, as
5 well as public transit and our need for
6 increased funding there.
7 A couple of questions, and I know
8 we've mentioned these a few times before, but
9 I think it would help to get on the record a
10 couple of updates.
11 The I-787 and the canal project, the
12 reimagining, if you will. I'm so thrilled to
13 have got $5 million from a couple of years
14 ago that we were able to get in the budget,
15 and the engineering feasibility study is
16 underway. Can you give us just a quick
17 update on the next steps there and when you
18 expect to see that? And then I've got a
19 couple of other just updates as well.
20 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well,
21 we've been progressing the study. And so we
22 will look to have some additional public
23 engagement here this spring. But things are
24 going well. I mean, we've had the
257
1 opportunity to talk to folks and we're on
2 schedule, on budget, and look forward to
3 continuing to develop that.
4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Okay, so we
5 expect to hear more in the spring.
6 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:
7 Absolutely.
8 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Terrific.
9 Another one, then, is Route 156, which
10 I know you've heard about. It's been a
11 couple of years, you've heard, in my
12 district. As we mentioned previously in
13 December, the federal Department of
14 Transportation updated the long-awaited
15 manual on uniform traffic control devices,
16 MUTCD. And I'm told that will help with this
17 85th percentile in terms of driver speed.
18 Any updates on that in terms of
19 flexibility that we might get in one of my
20 busiest corridors that would love to see
21 speed limit reduced, especially right there
22 in front of Indian Ladder Farms?
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well, as
24 you know, we're continuing to work with the
258
1 community. We've done a number of traffic
2 studies in that area. And as you and I
3 talked about, I think there's other
4 enhancements outside of the MUTCD and speed.
5 But the issue with regard to that area
6 is really fundamentally about pedestrian
7 safety. People are walking across a very
8 heavily used roadway and -- you know, to
9 enjoy the orchards and picking apples and
10 what's available there. But we will continue
11 to work with you and the community to see
12 exactly how we might be able to enhance that
13 safety feature.
14 You know, speed is one element of it,
15 but the other portion is really fundamentally
16 creating safe crossing spaces.
17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN FAHY: Yes, anything
18 that would. It's one of the biggest tourist
19 areas in my -- in this region, and want to
20 make sure we don't have to wait for a serious
21 accident.
22 And I'm out of time. We'll follow up
23 with other questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you
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1 very much. Thank you.
2 Senator?
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Salazar.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: May I just
5 say one thing before we get to the good
6 Senator. We have Member Fahy who has
7 arrived, Members Wallace, Rivera, McDonald
8 and Colton also. Thank you.
9 SENATOR SALAZAR: Thank you.
10 Thank you, Commissioner, for your
11 testimony, for joining us today.
12 I want to ask, of course, about the
13 BQE. As New York City is planning to
14 potentially invest billions of dollars into
15 the city-controlled portion of the BQE, the
16 cantilever, what is DOT's long-term vision
17 for the majority of the BQE that is
18 state-controlled?
19 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So as
20 we -- we've been working very closely with
21 the city on the triple cantilever and their
22 environmental process to help advance that
23 work. And in conjunction with that, we've
24 worked with the city on an application for a
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1 Reconnecting Communities grant, a USDOT
2 discretionary grant called Reconnecting
3 Communities.
4 That -- those dollars, if we were to
5 receive that grant, would go to further
6 engaging the community on what some of those
7 opportunities are, both north and south of
8 the triple cantilever, and look to see how we
9 could study that further.
10 I will tell you, just from a
11 structural standpoint, we've put over
12 $200 million, close to $300 million in the
13 structural integrity of the BQE, recognizing
14 that it's such a huge, an important freight
15 corridor across the Northeast.
16 SENATOR SALAZAR: Excellent. And is
17 the state -- or what money, rather, is the
18 state investing in potentially finding other
19 freight alternatives, whether it's maritime
20 shipping, freight along the future IBX, to I
21 guess offset the -- the burden on that?
22 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: There
23 have been a number of initiatives to look at
24 to see how freight might be moving in and
261
1 around New York City. The city's taken on
2 some of that, both with some of their water
3 studies.
4 We're also looking at freight writ
5 large at the state level, as part of our
6 larger transportation master plan. So we'll
7 be taking some more of that on with regard to
8 freight.
9 SENATOR SALAZAR: Excellent. I'm sure
10 some of my colleagues have additional
11 questions about the BQE, so --
12 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Okay.
13 Thank you, Senator.
14 SENATOR SALAZAR: Thanks,
15 Commissioner.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay, we're
17 done -- excuse me. Thank you.
18 Assembly?
19 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay,
20 Chairman Ken Zebrowski is next in line.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Thanks,
22 Commissioner. Good to see you.
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Hello,
24 sir.
262
1 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Thanks, Chair.
2 The Executive Budget has $11 million
3 for the annual operating costs of the
4 Lower Hudson Transit Link, the express bus
5 service across the Mario Cuomo Bridge. Could
6 you give us an overview of how that's
7 working? You know, I worked a lot with the
8 department pre-COVID really trying to get
9 that bus service up and running. I felt like
10 ridership was growing, the links to the buses
11 over on Metro-North on the Westchester side
12 of the river, we were getting better at the
13 links -- and then of course COVID happened.
14 And so I was kind of wondering, you
15 know, since COVID, has it been growing,
16 where's ridership, is that $11 million
17 sufficient? How have things been going with
18 that program?
19 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: It's a
20 good question. I need to look at the
21 ridership numbers. I know during COVID
22 obviously it suffered greatly. We were
23 actually working with the Thruway Authority
24 during COVID to kind of encourage people to
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1 go out. We ran some special services. We're
2 still doing that to get people across the
3 bridge if they want to take advantage of the
4 bike pedaling on the Cuomo Bridge.
5 But that said, overall ridership I
6 think is -- has certainly ticked up after
7 COVID. I can get you the numbers directly.
8 But we continue to fund it. We think it's a
9 vital link and a vital service, which is why
10 we continue to include it and the Executive
11 continues to include it in the budget. It's
12 one of those options that we have to
13 consider. If we want to get people out of
14 cars, we need to have the transit options
15 that are available, and Hudson Link provides
16 that. And it's a great carbon emissions
17 reduction opportunity.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Hundred
19 percent. I'd love to work with your
20 office -- I don't expect you to have those
21 numbers right now, but I'd love to work with
22 your office on outreach for that program,
23 letting people know about it. Obviously on
24 the west side of the Hudson we are so close
264
1 but so far in terms of, you know, mass
2 transit opportunities to get over that river.
3 You know, the Gateway project is probably the
4 long-term best option, to get somebody on a
5 train and, you know, go over into Manhattan.
6 But in the meantime, with Metro-North
7 right there, expanding or at least maximizing
8 that service and the linkage I think would be
9 a great -- in so many ways, great for
10 commuters, great for the environment, great
11 for the overall system. So I'd love to work
12 with you on that.
13 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'd be
14 happy to work with you on it.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Now, in
16 Rockland County, one of the biggest hubs for
17 that system is on the Palisades Mall. Which
18 is great, there's parking lots there. Which
19 sort of is a link, no pun intended, to the
20 other issue I've spoken to you about a bit on
21 the -- it borders Route 59, which is the
22 state highway, which has just been shut so
23 many times due to flooding recently. And so
24 it's a major corridor across Rockland County,
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1 east to west, it connects to where the
2 Thruway is, it would affect that Hudson Link
3 system.
4 You know, I appreciate you and your
5 department looking into that flooding
6 scenario. And just overall, what I think is
7 one of the issues -- and I don't know if it's
8 here or other places -- is I suspect, don't
9 know but suspect that the flooding is really
10 not the cause of the state highway. But it's
11 the state highway that's being closed.
12 And so I think we may have to -- or
13 your department, if you will, you know, may
14 have to serve as the quarterback, for lack of
15 a better metaphor, on how to fix these
16 things, you know. And I'd love to partner
17 with you on it. It may take the Army Corps
18 of Engineers and stream dredging or stream
19 maintenance. It may take municipalities or
20 the mall in terms of underground drainage.
21 There's a train trestle there run by CSX that
22 a lot of people think is backing up the water
23 so it flows onto Route 59. All these not in
24 your purview, but somehow we need to bring
266
1 folks together.
2 So sure, if we need to bring our
3 federal representatives down to talk to CSX
4 or to deal with the Army Corps, let's do it.
5 But I think -- you know, our thinking needs
6 to not just be siloed. Somebody needs to
7 quarterback it. And if there's other
8 agencies we need to push, let's push them so
9 that we can solve some of these problems.
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Happy to
11 work with you on it.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Thanks. Thank
13 you, Commissioner.
14 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Senator?
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Okay, Senator
16 Mattera.
17 SENATOR MATTERA: Great, thank you.
18 Thank you, Chair.
19 And thank you, Commissioner. It was
20 great speaking with you yesterday. And I
21 really want to thank our office --
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator, one
23 second.
24 He's a ranker, so he should have five
267
1 minutes. Thank you.
2 SENATOR MATTERA: Oh, my goodness.
3 Thank you so much, Senator. Usually you
4 don't give me that.
5 (Laughter.)
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: I do too.
7 (Laughter.)
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Don't start up
9 with me.
10 SENATOR MATTERA: No, I'm just
11 kidding, she's always so -- she's very
12 wonderful.
13 So yesterday -- and I want to thank
14 Director Rich Causin for doing a great job
15 down in the Long Island office. He's always
16 very responsive, and I really, really
17 appreciate that. But we -- yesterday, after
18 we did speak, that Country Pointe issue is
19 becoming worse. Because obviously the
20 coordination and the design is now going to
21 be changed because it's going to be held up
22 too long, and now I'm hearing the design's
23 going to be changed.
24 And by the design being changed, we
268
1 already got rid of -- which I was upset
2 about, which we spoke about -- sound walls
3 that should have been installed. Now they're
4 looking to do away with more sound walls
5 because of the cost factor of the delay
6 because of that sewer height.
7 So, Commissioner, please, these sound
8 walls are so important. We need to make sure
9 that this area that we live in, right there,
10 those sound walls need to be installed, and
11 we cannot have it that the -- that just
12 because of what's happening with
13 Country Pointe, that we're going to be
14 penalized because of a new design and the
15 cost factor.
16 Can you please -- I have to have you
17 on record with this one. It's very, very
18 important. I know it's in litigation with
19 the other part of it, the sewer, but this has
20 nothing to do with the sound walls.
21 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: But it
22 does, because it's all part of the larger
23 contract and what we're trying to execute.
24 And so I'm going to -- as you know, it's in
269
1 litigation right now, and I'm going to have
2 to defer to the fact that it's literally in
3 litigation.
4 SENATOR MATTERA: But that has nothing
5 to do with the sound walls, Commissioner. We
6 could talk about the sewer main -- I know we
7 can't talk about the sewer main because
8 that's in litigation. But the sound walls,
9 that shouldn't be penalized with my residents
10 because of a situation that happened with the
11 design.
12 So I'm asking you again, we talked
13 about the design that the walls were taken
14 away from certain areas. Now, because of
15 this problem, now more walls aren't going to
16 be installed. So we really can talk about
17 this, Commissioner. And please, I really,
18 really need you to look into this. This is
19 not fair to my community because of a
20 situation that happened with the sewer main.
21 But again, those walls do not have anything
22 to do with this.
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'll be
24 happy to talk with you offline again,
270
1 Senator. But again, this is part of a larger
2 project, all of which is combined in one
3 contract.
4 SENATOR MATTERA: Then I'm going to
5 say it again, my residents are being
6 penalized because of a situation that
7 happened with something else with another --
8 another community with a sewer main.
9 You know, we talked about the CHIPS,
10 and the CHIPS is so, so important. My
11 question to you is, you know, have you been
12 talking to the Governor's office that we're
13 hearing about a decrease in our CHIPS
14 funding? I know we're going to mention that.
15 Everybody needs to mention it here up on this
16 panel. Can you please give us a little
17 heads-up what your feelings are about the
18 decrease in CHIPS funding for this year?
19 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well, I
20 think, as I said before, the -- there's a
21 larger concern about the fiscal state of the
22 state. And so reflective of that, the
23 transportation proposal as it's been put
24 forward reflects, as the Governor pointed
271
1 out, some fiscal responsibility here across
2 the board. And, you know, we have -- there
3 are increases certainly in upstate transit,
4 and looking at some of the opportunities to
5 invest.
6 I think with regard to CHIPS, that
7 will continue to be a discussion between the
8 Legislature and the Executive moving forward
9 in this budget cycle.
10 SENATOR MATTERA: You know, you and I,
11 we discussed also too about what's happening
12 also in our districts, in all of them, that
13 we have drop shipping going all -- trucks all
14 over, all -- seven days a week, what's
15 happening with the drop shipping. So I do
16 have a bill that hopefully, sooner or
17 later -- and I just want to thank our
18 chairman of Transportation for always doing a
19 great job, and I appreciate you,
20 Senator Kennedy, for always being there for
21 us. But we have this drop shipping situation
22 right now that is running rampant, and our
23 roads are being worn out. And our CHIPS
24 funds are so, so important, that they depend
272
1 on this. And nothing is happening with this.
2 So I'm hopeful that we are going to
3 definitely look into this more with this. So
4 please, we have to please make sure that our
5 CHIPS funds are definitely not going to be
6 decreased.
7 Are you going to do that? Okay. All
8 right.
9 But I appreciate -- again, I
10 appreciate your time. But please, those
11 sound walls, very, very important.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
13 Senator.
14 SENATOR MATTERA: Thank you.
15 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'll
16 follow up with you, Senator.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
18 Next we have Member Fall, please.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN FALL: Hello,
20 Commissioner.
21 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Hello,
22 Assemblymember.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN FALL: Good to see you.
24 Have a question related to the HOV
273
1 lane on the Staten Island Expressway.
2 So as you know, the HOV lane goes from
3 Bradley avenue all the way to the
4 Verrazano Bridge, and it's from the
5 Verrazano Bridge to Bradley Avenue. And it's
6 pretty much incomplete, because it doesn't go
7 all the way to the Goethals Bridge. Because
8 of that, there's a ton of congestion. And
9 we're trying to see how we can get the
10 extension for the HOV lane in the next
11 capital budget plan.
12 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'm
13 sorry, can you repeat the last --
14 ASSEMBLYMAN FALL: The extension for
15 the -- funding for the extension for the HOV
16 lane for the Staten Island Expressway.
17 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So I
18 recognize that it's an issue that the
19 delegation has been looking at for quite some
20 time. And our regional office has certainly
21 taken a look at it, and I'm happy to follow
22 up with you directly on it. It is not
23 currently part of our five-year capital plan.
24 As you know, we've done a lot of
274
1 improvements on the HOV lane. We just
2 completed one I think about a year and a half
3 ago on the expressway. But it's a huge
4 undertaking, to say the least, so --
5 ASSEMBLYMAN FALL: Well, you know,
6 Staten Island is a transportation desert, so
7 these little improvements make a big
8 difference. This is one of those things
9 where there is bipartisan support on the
10 island. So we're fully behind it, and
11 hopefully we can get your support to get it
12 in that next capital plan.
13 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Thank
14 you.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN FALL: Thank you,
16 Commissioner.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Persaud.
18 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you.
19 Commissioner, it's great seeing you.
20 And thank you for having a conversation with
21 myself and my staff. And I just appreciate
22 your staff working with us on some of the
23 issues across my district. And I look
24 forward to you coming to the district for us
275
1 to walk through to see some of the things
2 that we're talking about.
3 Over the past week we saw -- you know,
4 there's the push about electrifying buses.
5 And over the past week we saw some issues
6 with, you know, not having the capacity to
7 recharge buses. Can you tell me how much of
8 the $80 million that you have allocated for
9 electrifying buses has been spent?
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We are
11 working directly with NYSERDA on the
12 electrification for school buses, and then
13 we're giving those dollars that we have
14 allocated directly to transit systems in the
15 upstate areas. Those have already been
16 allocated over the course of this last year.
17 SENATOR PERSAUD: I know NYSERDA has
18 awarded some grants to some organizations
19 that -- for example, that are working with
20 the bus -- the minibus industry. Do you know
21 how those grants were processed for the
22 persons who were given the grants?
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'm not
24 familiar with the details of that. No,
276
1 sorry.
2 SENATOR PERSAUD: Okay. Thank you for
3 that.
4 I know Senator Comrie asked some
5 questions on the MWBE, but I wasn't sure that
6 I heard the answer correctly. What's the
7 percentage of MWBE contracts that you have
8 allocated?
9 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We're
10 averaging about 18 percent a year. It's gone
11 up. It was up a little bit higher and then
12 during COVID and -- and now we're averaging
13 about 18 percent over the last three years.
14 SENATOR PERSAUD: Of those contracts,
15 how many are the M's in the MWBEs?
16 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I don't
17 have the breakout. That's a holistic number.
18 SENATOR PERSAUD: Is it possible for
19 us to get that?
20 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Yes. I
21 can -- I --
22 SENATOR PERSAUD: Why I'm asking that
23 is because I was at an event, we were at this
24 conference, and everyone's talking about, you
277
1 know, the amount of contracts we're giving to
2 MWBEs. And when you're really seeing, it's
3 not -- the M's are not being given those
4 contracts. I just want to see in the state
5 how are you doing with that.
6 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'd be
7 happy to provide you with a breakout.
8 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you for that.
9 One other thing I needed to ask about.
10 As we're shifting to zero-emission buses --
11 again, back to buses -- there's the
12 indication -- it's indicating a number of
13 challenges, and I said that earlier. How
14 much are you involved, or your agency
15 involved, in providing technical assistance
16 to --
17 (Overtalk.)
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
19 SENATOR PERSAUD: You can send that to
20 us.
21 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Okay.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: You'll have to
23 follow up.
24 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you.
278
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. Member
2 Darling.
3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING: Hi,
4 Commissioner, how are you? Hello. I just
5 want to thank you again. It's been a
6 pleasure working with you to repair and
7 replace roads all throughout Long Island on
8 the Southern State, the Meadowbrook State
9 parkway, the LIE and I'm sure a bunch of
10 other areas. You guys have done an
11 incredible job. Our constituents are much
12 happier, and a lot less potholes. So really
13 great to partner with you and your team.
14 In the proposed Executive Budget will
15 there be resources for a marketing campaign
16 that targets communities experiencing high
17 levels of unemployment in order to fill DOT
18 employment vacancies?
19 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well, we
20 would love to partner with you and others.
21 We have a great opportunity in terms of
22 hiring at DOT. So we don't have a dedicated
23 line item per se, if that's what you're
24 asking, but the department -- we are
279
1 undertaking a very large-scale recruiting
2 effort for all job categories -- highway
3 maintenance workers, engineers,
4 transportation analysts, a whole variety of
5 skills.
6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING: Wonderful.
7 All right, that was my question.
8 Thank you.
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: We have Senator
10 Brad Hoylman-Sigal. Oh, he left.
11 Then we have Senator Jeremy Cooney.
12 SENATOR COONEY: Batting up second
13 here. Thank you, Chair.
14 And good to see you again,
15 Commissioner. Appreciate your leadership,
16 your team here in Albany and of course in
17 Region 4 with Chris Reeve.
18 I want to particularly highlight and
19 thank you for your work on the State Touring
20 Routes. Under the leadership of Chairman Tim
21 Kennedy, we've done a lot of great things
22 across the state, and I want to thank you for
23 that innovation for our cities.
24 I want to build off Chairman Kennedy's
280
1 question regarding STOA and specifically
2 dedicated revenue for upstate transit. As
3 you're familiar, Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse
4 and Albany all are experiencing low ridership
5 rates in our public transit systems -- not
6 because they don't provide great service, but
7 rather because of the frequency of the routes
8 and making sure that they can be reliable
9 forms of transit for our constituents.
10 And my question is, in your time
11 whether in Washington or talking to your
12 colleagues across the country, are there
13 models of dedicated revenue that are working
14 that we can model here in New York State,
15 that we can try in this budget session? Or
16 are there other forms of revenue that we can
17 look at?
18 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: It's a
19 great question, and I think we should
20 definitely have that discussion. As I put it
21 out earlier, there have been some dedicated
22 forms that have been put in place, certainly
23 that are benefiting MTA operating systems
24 across the board in communities and -- in
281
1 downstate communities.
2 We've seen some success with the
3 rental car companies and some other creative
4 means of collecting those revenues. But
5 happy to work with you and members of the
6 Transportation committees -- certainly
7 Senator Kennedy's been a big proponent of
8 this.
9 But it's difficult. It's difficult to
10 look at, too, because you have to -- you have
11 to look at things differently. And we have
12 had some success, and we can build off of
13 that. But I want to commend the Governor,
14 because she has been incredibly consistent
15 about supporting STOA, about statewide
16 operating assistance, in particular for our
17 upstate transit systems.
18 (Overtalk.)
19 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:
20 Recognizing that we don't have that same
21 level of dedicated sources, you know, she put
22 it across the board another 5.4 percent
23 increase.
24 SENATOR COONEY: We do appreciate
282
1 that, Commissioner. And we have to know that
2 the opportunity to grow our public transit
3 system does require additional resources. I
4 agree with Chair Senator Kennedy in terms of
5 that 15 percent or more number.
6 And I look forward to having continued
7 conversations with your staff, whether it's
8 to increase the STOA generally even more
9 beyond the Executive Budget, or whether it is
10 that dedicated revenue source that will allow
11 us to think creatively about long-term
12 solutions for public transit in New York
13 State. We're absolutely committed to working
14 with you to get that done.
15 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Thank
16 you.
17 SENATOR COONEY: Thank you very much.
18 I yield back my time.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
20 Assembly.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
22 Senator.
23 Mr. Simone, please.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN SIMONE: Thank you, Chair.
283
1 Thank you, Commissioner. I want to
2 first thank you for doing a study of
3 Route 9A. As you know, in my district along
4 Route 9A and the Hudson River we have
5 significant population growth; a section that
6 will soon be in the congestion pricing zone,
7 including 80 intersection; one of the busiest
8 parks in the nation, the Hudson River
9 Greenway, one of the nation's busiest bike
10 corridors. And I know this because I often
11 use my bike down the Hudson River Park
12 Greenway, I walk my dog, and it's a mess. I
13 would love to see an extra lane along the
14 highway closed for increased use by
15 pedestrians.
16 My question is, how will DOT be
17 studying the change in vehicular traffic
18 patterns after congestion pricing takes
19 effect, and how this route can be better
20 served with thousands of daily bikers and
21 pedestrians along the West Side Highway of
22 Manhattan?
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So with
24 regard to 9A, there's a lot of work that, as
284
1 you know, we've done consistently. We don't
2 have anything planned right now but, you
3 know, the bottom line is is that we have to
4 look to see what the impacts of congestion
5 pricing will be and go from there.
6 I think that right now the -- there
7 have been proposals, as you've suggested, to
8 take another lane of traffic. But given the
9 VMT that we have right now, the vehicles that
10 are on the roadway right now, it doesn't
11 seem -- from a congestion standpoint it
12 doesn't seem to make -- you know, we need to
13 look at some other alternatives. And one of
14 them is actually putting people on transit.
15 Which is why I think congestion pricing will
16 hopefully get us there in many ways.
17 So happy to work with you in the
18 future on what that might look like. But for
19 right now, you know, it's going to take some
20 time to actually see how this all plays out.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: That's it?
22 Thank you.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
24 Senator Tom O'Mara, five minutes,
285
1 ranker.
2 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you.
3 Good afternoon, Commissioner. Thank
4 you for your time with us today.
5 I just want to reiterate the concerns
6 I have over the cuts to the CHIPS funding.
7 It's vital, particularly for upstate and
8 particularly for our rural towns who many of
9 them their entire road budget for the year is
10 CHIPS, and that's all they have. So it's
11 incredibly important. And a cut to them is a
12 hit that those communities really can't
13 sustain with the important work just to keep
14 up with the needs of the local roads.
15 I understand, you know, we've got
16 tough budget issues. And fiscal austerity is
17 important, and I'm certainly a champion of
18 that in many ways. But there's many areas of
19 this budget that are far less important than
20 our infrastructure and our roadways that
21 should be the priority.
22 So just please take that back to the
23 Executive. And in negotiations we certainly
24 hope to be able to achieve at least level
286
1 funding from last year with that. So it's
2 critically important.
3 One specific question from
4 Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick on Long Island
5 looking for a status update, Loop Parkway
6 Drawbridge. There's supposedly a feasibility
7 study that's out there. What's the status of
8 that, and what's the expectation there?
9 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We're
10 working on the study right now. I think
11 we'll be bringing it to conclusion pretty
12 shortly and we'll be in touch. But we've
13 been working on it to take a look at what
14 some of the alternatives could be.
15 SENATOR O'MARA: Okay, thank you.
16 And I just want to also say thank you
17 for the great work the department has done
18 throughout my district, really, but in
19 particular on State Route 54A, which runs
20 along the west side of Keuka Lake, which is a
21 very challenging section of roadway due to
22 the steepness of the hillsides and slopes
23 there, and it's constant work needing to be
24 done. So it's been a very good relationship
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1 working on that, so thank you.
2 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I greatly
3 appreciate that, sir. I've been there, and
4 to say that it's challenging is indeed an
5 understatement.
6 SENATOR O'MARA: Thanks.
7 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So thank
8 you.
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
10 Assembly.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
12 Slater.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: Thank you very
14 much.
15 Commissioner, great to see you.
16 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Good to
17 see you.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: I just wanted to
19 follow up on some of our discussions that
20 we've had previously. And by the way, I do
21 want to thank you for your help with Route 52
22 in the Town of Kent. That was a great
23 improvement that we've made. I'm hoping we
24 can build on that moving forward, as we've
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1 discussed.
2 And I also want to just applaud the
3 Region 8 staff. As I said to you before,
4 they have been fantastic to work with, very
5 responsive to our needs, and so I do want to
6 tip my hat to them as well.
7 But we did talk about some of the
8 reports, specifically the Highway Pavement
9 and Bridge Conditions Report. Now, it's my
10 understanding that members of the majority
11 received copies of that report, among others,
12 but members of the minority, when we asked
13 for it, were denied.
14 And so I'd like to know if we're going
15 to be able to get copies of those reports,
16 whether it's that, the Capital Program
17 Letting and Implementation Report, the
18 Capital Program Accomplishment Report, and
19 the Downstate Suburban and Upstate Transit
20 Capital Programs Report. Is that going to be
21 made available for our conference?
22 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Sir, I
23 can tell you that we submit the reports per
24 the legislative requirements. So --
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1 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: There's nothing
2 prohibiting you from sharing -- it's my
3 understanding there's nothing that prohibits
4 you from sharing those reports with our
5 conference as well.
6 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'll be
7 happy to talk, but the bottom line is we do
8 it by statute. So ...
9 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: Understood.
10 Understood. Well, I hope we can our hands on
11 those reports as well.
12 I also just wanted to quickly, on
13 Region 8, with my remaining time, there's an
14 MOU project list that had to drop two
15 scheduled projects, and you still spent more
16 than was programmed. Obviously with
17 inflation driving up the construction costs
18 that will reduce the number of projects being
19 delivered. But fewer projects means
20 continued declines in the conditions.
21 So my question is, how much additional
22 funding does Region 8 need over the remaining
23 three years in the current capital program to
24 deliver all the projects that are already
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1 listed in the program?
2 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: What we
3 do with the capital program is actually for
4 every region is make sure that whatever's
5 been planned and programmed, we work with
6 every region across the state, as the DOT, to
7 make sure that we're -- if one project slips,
8 so to speak, into an outyear, that we're
9 pulling something else in to make sure that
10 it's balanced over the five years.
11 So that's the goal, making sure that
12 we're meeting the stated MOU requirements for
13 both projects and dollars spent within the
14 areas that the Legislature and the Executive
15 agreed to.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: So no additional
17 funding needed to accomplish the five-year
18 plan for Region 8.
19 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We have
20 the funding based on the five-year plan that
21 was passed by the Legislature and signed by
22 the Governor.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: Understood.
24 Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
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1 With my remaining time, I do want to
2 wish my colleague Tony Simone a happy
3 birthday. Hey, Tony.
4 (Cheers; applause.)
5 ASSEMBLYMAN SLATER: Commissioner,
6 thanks again for being here today. Really
7 appreciate it.
8 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Thank
9 you.
10 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
11 Senate.
12 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Ramos.
13 SENATOR RAMOS: (Mic off.) Thank you.
14 Well, good afternoon.
15 (Off the record.)
16 SENATOR RAMOS: Well, I'm loud enough.
17 (Laughter.)
18 SENATOR RAMOS: Good afternoon. I
19 wanted to pick up our conversation on e-bike
20 safety. As you know, there's great concern
21 about folks driving their e-bikes down the --
22 you know, going the wrong way down streets,
23 riding on sidewalks and that sort of thing.
24 I know that in working with the Traffic
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1 Safety Committee you've put together a
2 brand-new PSA; it depicts a father purchasing
3 an e-bike for his son. It largely focuses
4 around helmet safety, not so much on speed
5 limits or sidewalk riding.
6 And so I'm wondering, what's the plan
7 to actually work with the target demographic,
8 right: Delivery workers, the folks who are
9 using e-bikes the most. I'm less concerned
10 about kids and e-bikes, more so about, you
11 know, those who are using it as a tool for
12 work.
13 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So as you
14 noted, Senator, we're working with the
15 Governor's Traffic Safety Committee. And I
16 can tell you that in initial discussions with
17 them, one -- you know, it's a collaboration
18 of state agencies, so DMV, State Police, DOT,
19 et cetera, all coming together to try and
20 enhance education around e-bike safety.
21 One of the initial areas was literally
22 working with the delivery companies, Grubhub,
23 et cetera, to make sure that information is
24 getting shared. So I think there's
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1 additional opportunity. This is the initial
2 launch. But would love to work with you on
3 how to actually advance it.
4 SENATOR RAMOS: Yeah, I would love --
5 I mean, if you need help brokering a meeting
6 with these work groups, I'm -- you know --
7 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I think
8 the --
9 SENATOR RAMOS: -- I'm happy to --
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I think
11 that's the actual challenge, is actually not
12 just getting to the companies, but the people
13 that are actually using --
14 SENATOR RAMOS: But we can do a
15 meeting, right? They're actually pretty
16 organized. We can help disseminate
17 information, create a brochure in Spanish, in
18 their languages. I just -- I would love to
19 see a lot -- I would love to see the DOT be
20 much more proactive on this matter.
21 But to switch gears very quickly,
22 actually Assemblyman Cunningham right here to
23 my right, and myself, we've introduced a bill
24 in order to establish scramble crosswalks
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1 outside of schools during arrival and
2 dismissal.
3 I know that unfortunately the
4 Assemblyman was hit by a car outside of his
5 school when he was young, and along
6 Northern Boulevard in my district, we've lost
7 at least 12 children over the last few years,
8 and yet no agency at the city or state level
9 seems to be exploring traffic treatments or
10 ways to make it easier for these children to
11 cross the street. Northern Boulevard, of
12 course, being technically a state highway
13 even though it's a street.
14 So I'm wondering if -- is there any
15 plans there to --
16 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
17 Senator.
18 SENATOR RAMOS: -- support that?
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Sorry, you're
20 going to have to --
21 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I'll
22 follow up with you directly.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
24 Cunningham.
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1 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: I'll pick up
2 where she left off.
3 (Laughter.)
4 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: That was
5 a good tag-in.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: I'll use the
7 first part of my moments to just kind of
8 restate the question, but wanted to get an
9 answer on that question on the record.
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So the
11 bottom line is I think the majority of the
12 legislation that you all have introduced
13 looks directly at some of the city roads and
14 some of the school districts in there. But
15 we'll be happy to take a look at the
16 legislation itself and see what the
17 opportunities are at the state level as well.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: Thank you so
19 much.
20 And I think, going back to Jessica --
21 the Senator's first question about e-bikes, I
22 guess I'm also concerned with the number of
23 e-bike fires that happen, particularly the
24 one that happened in my district right after
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1 Christmas, right before New Year's.
2 Given the increase of e-bike sales --
3 I mean, e-bike fires, what policies do you
4 have in place to make sure we have an
5 accurate count of the amount of sales of
6 e-bikes in the state?
7 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So that
8 would be a question for DMV.
9 But I can tell you that the Executive
10 did put forward some battery language in the
11 budget looking at -- making sure that these
12 fake batteries, for a better name, I'm --
13 anyway --
14 SENATOR RAMOS: -- lithium ion.
15 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Exactly.
16 The secondary market here that has exploded,
17 literally, figuratively, and is actually so
18 that people are aware that they need to
19 actually buy the battery as designated from
20 the manufacturer, as opposed to the fraud
21 that's taking place. So the awareness
22 campaign.
23 And to Senator Ramos's other question
24 with regard to what you were asking about
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1 e-bike safety, this campaign that we've
2 launched in the Governor's Traffic Safety
3 Committee is in multiple languages. Happy to
4 do additional outreach in various communities
5 to make sure that we're actually reaching the
6 users as intended.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: Particularly
8 communities of color and immigrant
9 communities --
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:
11 Absolutely.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: -- I think
13 that would be specifically important.
14 The last thing I'll say is last
15 November, just this past year, I had my first
16 child. And as I walk the streets of Brooklyn
17 and throughout the city in general, I'm
18 concerned about just general street safety --
19 not just slowing down the streets or slowing
20 down drivers, and the cameras, but also
21 infrastructure.
22 What things can we put in place with
23 some of the federal money and state money to
24 ensure that our roads also are transformed in
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1 a way that creates safer streets for children
2 and families?
3 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So
4 there's great opportunities across the board.
5 And I know the city's engaged in a
6 Vision Zero plan.
7 For State DOT, we've got an Active
8 Transportation Plan that really looks at bike
9 and ped safety and Complete Streets
10 initiatives that we've launched, and
11 literally apply as a screening criteria to
12 every project that we undertake.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: The last
14 thing I'll say, in the last 10 seconds, is
15 2022 was the deadliest year for children with
16 vehicular traffic violations and people
17 getting hit. We have to work urgently and
18 hard to make sure this doesn't continue as a
19 trend.
20 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: And a
21 large part of that is awareness and
22 mental health.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM: Thank you so
24 much, Commissioner, for your time.
299
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
2 Commissioner. Thank you.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. And
4 we've been rejoined by Senator Brad
5 Hoylman-Sigal.
6 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL: Thank you,
7 Senator Krueger, Chairwoman.
8 On e-bikes, it's an issue we hear
9 about constantly from constituents. I will
10 say that I think the delivery app companies,
11 with whom we have met along with
12 Senator Krueger and others, including
13 birthday boy Assemblymember Simone, are --
14 should be held responsible for the unfair and
15 I would argue inhumane way that they treat
16 their drivers in terms of the algorithms that
17 force them to deliver within an allotted time
18 period.
19 I have legislation that would remedy
20 that. I'll be happy to share that with you.
21 But I wanted to speak about
22 double-decker tour buses, another plague in
23 my district, and probably Senator Krueger's.
24 Last summer one of those buses, in this case
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1 a double-decker tour bus, crashed in
2 Manhattan and sent 32 people to the hospital.
3 What oversight does DOT exercise over
4 these double-decker tour buses? And I would
5 venture that there might be gaps in your
6 ability to ensure that these buses and their
7 drivers are operating safely on our streets.
8 For example, the drivers are not held
9 to the same type of training standards as
10 regular bus drivers on city streets. Are you
11 aware of that?
12 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We have a
13 very rigorous bus inspection program. And I
14 need to get back and actually look to see
15 what the issue is with regard to
16 double-decker buses. Because anything
17 operating in -- in commerce, basically, in
18 intrastate, should have oversight. The
19 question is, is this interstate providers --
20 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL: These are tour
21 buses that only tour within the five
22 boroughs.
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: New York
24 City.
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1 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL: Yeah. And in
2 this case, probably just Manhattan. Okay,
3 I'd love to follow up on that.
4 And then secondly, Route 9A, otherwise
5 known as the West Side Highway in my
6 Senate district, has been a clear and present
7 danger for cyclists and pedestrians for many
8 years. Do you have plans to redesign or
9 upgrade Route 9A to ensure that New Yorkers
10 can feel safe to jog safely or bicycle along
11 the Hudson River?
12 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I
13 would -- you know, we've done an enormous
14 amount of work on 9A to not only make sure
15 that we accommodate bikes and ped traffic but
16 literally as we've rehabilitated portions of
17 9A over the years, we've enhanced that even
18 further.
19 And so the opportunity is always there
20 for additional safety work. But, you know, I
21 will tell you we have done an enormous amount
22 over the course of the last --
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. We're
24 going to cut you off.
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1 SENATOR HOYLMAN-SIGAL: Thank you.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: We go back to the
3 Assembly.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Mr. -- Member
5 Lemondes, please, ranker, five minutes.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES: Thank you,
7 Chair Magnarelli.
8 Thank you, Commissioner, for spending
9 so much time with us today. Really
10 appreciate it.
11 I also wanted to thank you for your
12 commitment to flooding mitigation upstate.
13 We have no shortage of it; our topography
14 lends itself to it. The deterioration in
15 many of our roads and culverts also adds to
16 that. And I would hope that you would
17 continue helping us improve that. I have, in
18 the 126th Assembly District, several direct
19 needs for flooding mitigation in that area.
20 I'd like to secondly go to the I-81
21 project in Syracuse. With respect to the
22 farmer's market, the CNY Regional Market
23 there serves seven counties. If this project
24 interferes with ingress or egress for that
303
1 market, it will disrupt the commerce, the
2 agricultural commerce, our state's number-one
3 industry, my Assembly district's number-one
4 industry. It will severely -- could severely
5 impact that.
6 Are you aware of anything that that
7 project will disrupt with respect to the
8 commerce for the CNY Regional Market?
9 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I
10 personally am not aware of the -- if you're
11 concerned about the logistics and the staging
12 of the construction with regard to I-81,
13 we'll be happy to work with -- we're working
14 with everybody. I mean, it's a very
15 complicated project, many construction sites
16 in and around the city, and we're working
17 with all the critical stakeholders as we move
18 forward, because we have to.
19 I mean, one, we don't want to
20 interrupt, we want to be as -- we want to be
21 as least intrusive as we possibly can. But
22 then again, it's major construction. So
23 we'll be working with the critical
24 stakeholders.
304
1 ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES: Thank you.
2 And similar to Chair Magnarelli, I
3 have several direct DOT property transfer
4 issues which I'd like to follow up with you
5 on after.
6 Going to your testimony with respect
7 to smart climate policies and EV weight, and
8 with respect to the materials being used for
9 the 75-year lifespan on our roads, is that
10 taking into account the additional weight of
11 these vehicles?
12 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: It is. I
13 can tell you that our specifications look at
14 the weight of various vehicles. We have an
15 80,000 pound weight limit that we design for,
16 and so far we're not seeing anything above
17 that.
18 I think the larger question is is with
19 the adoption, potentially in the future, of
20 medium and heavy-duty vehicles. We are
21 looking at our specifications right now on
22 what the impact would be.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES: Thank you.
24 And with respect to the Governor's
305
1 commitment to these green policy changes, I'd
2 like to go to EV batteries specifically. And
3 as we know, EV batteries are dependent on the
4 mining of rare-earth materials. For a
5 thousand-pound battery it takes approximately
6 500,000 -- half a million -- pounds of earth
7 to be moved to extract the rare earths for
8 one battery.
9 Further, our commitment to mining rare
10 earths is directly linked to the
11 proliferation of EV batteries. I'm wondering
12 if -- the data that we have is there's
13 approximately 10,000 deaths of children in
14 the countries where these rare earths are
15 mined -- most of them in Africa, if not all;
16 most of them Black children -- 40,000
17 injuries, and innumerable and unknown amounts
18 of birth defects that will occur from now
19 into the foreseeable future as a result of
20 the poisoning these children are experiencing
21 as they mine.
22 We know that no children in New York
23 or the United States would be allowed to work
24 in those conditions. Yet we get behind an
306
1 effort so we can have electric vehicles that
2 is directly linked to the death, poisoning
3 and injury of children on another continent.
4 Do you share any obligation in this at
5 all?
6 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: With
7 regard to the manufacture of electric
8 batteries and what you've pointed out, there
9 are global climate concerns writ large. The
10 climate objectives are to reduce carbon
11 emissions. And as we look at how we do that,
12 we have to look at everything. And that
13 includes the electrification of our vehicle
14 systems, both passenger, medium and
15 heavy-duty vehicles.
16 The technology is advancing very
17 quickly in the private sector on how those
18 batteries are made and how these vehicles
19 come to market, so --
20 ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES: Thank you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 Commissioner, I think I'm the last one
23 left on the Senate side. I have 10, but I
24 won't use 10, so I don't care if my clock
307
1 says five.
2 First, as a follow-up to
3 Senator Hoylman-Sigal's question about the
4 double-decker buses -- which his district and
5 my district are identical from this
6 perspective -- my understanding was that
7 these buses, even though they just only stay
8 in Manhattan, maybe sometimes in Brooklyn,
9 they are registering out of state and they
10 garage out of state, and that somehow
11 supposedly limits the state's ability to go
12 after them for the same standards we apply.
13 Does that ring a bell at all to you?
14 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Senator,
15 I would prefer to come back and make sure
16 that I have the proper framework, because I
17 want to make sure that I understand where
18 these bus companies are registered, how
19 they're operating, and provide specifics on
20 the existing oversight that we have with
21 regard to these companies that you're
22 raising.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So I look forward
24 to the same concerns as Senator Hoylman.
308
1 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I
2 appreciate that.
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Hoylman-Sigal,
4 excuse me.
5 Are we at the point now where we're
6 making sure that none of the chemicals or
7 products used that's spread on roads and
8 highways for snow and ice are not dangerous
9 contaminants for the water table?
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We just
11 undertook a very extensive look with a number
12 of partners. The Legislature passed the
13 Adirondack Salt Task Force legislation. Last
14 year we constituted that task force. It
15 produced a report. It was very much a
16 collaborative effort with the members of the
17 task force, which included environmental
18 organizations. The DEC and DOT were
19 cochairs.
20 A number of recommendations came out
21 of that. They have launched -- the pilot
22 programs in particular that DOT is
23 undertaking right now launched this winter.
24 So we're looking at -- the recommendations of
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1 the task force included things like --
2 there's a pilot that we're doing right now in
3 Central New York in the Utica area, just
4 north of there, using all salt brine. How do
5 we look at that?
6 How do we look at cold spots, meaning
7 areas that frequently ice? But if we don't
8 put salt down there for a period of time in
9 this pilot, do we actually need to look at
10 some natural, you know, basically making sure
11 that we're landscaping properly and creating
12 less shady areas and less ice.
13 We're also looking at -- we put what
14 we call EVLs, which are basically cameras on
15 our plows so that we're monitoring the salt
16 usage, salt spread, and understanding exactly
17 what the conditions are and how we're
18 treating for them.
19 So the bottom line is is all these
20 pilots have launched. We're collecting --
21 we'll collect the data and analyze it and
22 report back out for the legislative
23 requirement. But I do think we've got a good
24 way forward on how we're actually managing
310
1 for salt, salt usage, and then, you know,
2 reporting back out to see what's going to
3 actually work and where we can -- if we need
4 to make additional improvements, where that
5 would be.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And do you have a
7 system in place for where this information,
8 when you learn it and you get the pilots'
9 findings, that that information is reported
10 in some way so the public can track how we're
11 doing on improving our climate goals from a,
12 you know, public roadways perspective?
13 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We're
14 collecting it right now. So we have not even
15 begun the analytics of that yet. So we're
16 going to continue to work with the task
17 force, because that's the framework that
18 we've got to actually do that.
19 We'll figure out how to -- it's all
20 public in the end, so.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: And
23 anybody who wants to actually track a plow,
24 we've got a -- you can go on our website and
311
1 actually look at it.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. I
3 think the Senate -- oh, we may have a
4 three-minute follow-up.
5 But Assembly next.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. Member
7 Palmesano.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Thank you,
9 Commissioner, for being here. It's always
10 good to see you.
11 I first want to just give a shout out
12 to your regional teams. They do a great job
13 for our regions, so I wanted to say that
14 first of all.
15 Earlier today we heard from
16 Commissioner Janno Lieber talking about his
17 wishlist and specific needs like replacing
18 20 percent of subway stations, 32 percent of
19 Metro-North bridges, and so on --
20 megaprojects like the Second Avenue Subway.
21 We know the MTA budget for both capital and
22 operating is increasing. And I know you
23 talked about the historic $32 billion DOT
24 five-year capital plan, which pales in
312
1 comparison to the five-year, $51 billion MTA
2 capital plan. There's no parity between the
3 two. There used to be; there is no longer.
4 But yet even given the fact -- I know
5 25 percent was mentioned as far as the
6 inflation rate. According to the FHA, the
7 Federal Highway Administration, for the past
8 30 months the inflation rate for highway
9 construction is up a record 58 percent, but
10 yet this Governor has chosen to cut
11 10 percent, or $60 million, from the
12 critically important CHIPS program, which
13 provides money directly to these local
14 communities.
15 As my colleagues mentioned, some of
16 these communities, upstate rural communities,
17 that's all they receive to fix their local
18 roads and bridges in communities. And this
19 is going to hurt the local communities, it's
20 going to hurt the local property taxpayer in
21 their ability to fix these roads.
22 This cut is absolutely unacceptable.
23 Hopefully you'll take that back to the
24 Governor. But also to my colleagues here, we
313
1 cannot let this cut stand. It shouldn't just
2 be restored, there should be an increase to
3 the CHIPS base aid. And no governor has ever
4 cut the CHIPS base aid as long as I've been a
5 member or a staff member 15 years previously.
6 The CHIPS base aid has never been cut until
7 this Governor chose to do it. The worst
8 they've done, pull out Winter Recovery and
9 mess with that, but never CHIPS base aid.
10 So that was just one thing I wanted to
11 mention. But I wanted to ask my question on
12 the EV issue. My colleague mentioned --
13 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Can I
14 respond really quickly?
15 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: No, it was
16 more of a comment, because you understand I
17 got three minutes. So we can talk about
18 this, but I just wanted to mention that,
19 because you and my colleagues, we need to
20 restore this money. It's wrong.
21 So I want to talk about EVs. So my
22 colleague talked about the child labor issue
23 with the Democratic Republic of Congo, I've
24 talked about that time and again. One thing
314
1 for sure is cobalt is used to produce lithium
2 ion batteries that are used to produce these
3 batteries to power these electric vehicles.
4 And certainly we should all agree that
5 child labor -- we shouldn't meet our climate
6 goals on the backs of child labor in the
7 Democratic Republic of Congo. It's proven,
8 it's fact, they're dying, they're being
9 maimed. So we should address that. And we
10 shouldn't be supporting and buying these
11 vehicles until they can demonstrate that
12 child labor is not being used.
13 Wouldn't you agree, we should not be
14 using child labor to produce these electric
15 vehicles to meet our -- because you talk
16 about the goal is to get carbon -- reduce
17 carbon. But we shouldn't be doing it on the
18 backs of child labor in the Democratic
19 Republic of Congo, where 70 percent of the
20 cobalt is extracted to produce these
21 electric -- these batteries to power these
22 electric vehicles.
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So let
24 me -- first, with regard to the CHIPS
315
1 funding, I just want to make a clarification.
2 Governor Hochul put forward $6.1 billion --
3 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Commissioner.
4 Commissioner, you're going to have to get
5 back to him directly. Okay?
6 Senate.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Tim Kennedy for
8 three month -- three months? No, you can't
9 go --
10 (Laughter; overtalk.)
11 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I don't
12 think the clock goes that high.
13 (Laughter.)
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Three minutes.
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: Commissioner, I have
16 three months.
17 (Laughter.)
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Wonderful. Thank
19 you for that generosity, Chairwoman.
20 Commissioner, thank you very much
21 again.
22 A couple of things. So I just want to
23 go back to my questions earlier, talking
24 NFTA. Look, they're in the last year of a
316
1 five-year capital plan; $100 million was the
2 first money in in 35 years. That money was
3 basically spent before they got it. The
4 system was failing, it was crumbling.
5 They've done some good things. They need the
6 next phase of that.
7 We're talking about a $50-plus billion
8 capital plan for the MTA, with congestion
9 pricing and everything else. The need for
10 $150 million for the NFTA, I just want to
11 make a note of that, is essential for the
12 next five years.
13 STOA, you've heard a number of us talk
14 about the need for improved STOA. These are
15 all issues we can get into. But when it
16 comes to the NFTA, there's the metro rail
17 expansion that you're very familiar with.
18 Can you talk about the DOT and your
19 conversations, your support or lack thereof
20 of this vision moving forward for the light
21 rail expansion into Amherst from downtown
22 Buffalo?
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So the
24 NFTA has put forward what their proposal is
317
1 and what they would like to do. Again, it
2 hinges on funding to actually make that
3 happen. Beyond that, DOT -- that's how we've
4 looked at it in terms of actually
5 understanding what their proposal is and
6 understanding what the funding opportunities
7 would be to actually carry that out.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yes. So one thing
9 we're going to be looking for is a commitment
10 of funding moving forward so that we can go
11 after funding at the federal level. That's
12 what's necessary from the state level. So
13 we'll work with you on that. I would
14 appreciate that greatly. And that would be a
15 major, major impact economically on the
16 community for the future.
17 And the last thing, because we have
18 one minute left, I want to talk about
19 limousine safety and the bill that was
20 proposed. If you could please just outline
21 that briefly, talk about the suggestions made
22 by the task force, if they were fully
23 included in what has been proposed, and --
24 the task force, please. Thank you.
318
1 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So I
2 greatly appreciate, you know, the work that
3 has been done across the board on limousine
4 safety. Seven bills have been passed, and
5 the agencies that are responsible -- DOT,
6 DMV, et cetera, have all taken them extremely
7 seriously and implemented them. We also
8 executed the Limousine Task Force.
9 Governor Hochul put forward a
10 comprehensive bill that takes the work of the
11 Senate bill that was passed last year on
12 limousine safety, and the Assembly work, and
13 takes the recommendations from the task force
14 and creates a more comprehensive safety bill.
15 We'd love to see -- work with you all
16 on --
17 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
18 Commissioner.
19 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: --
20 passing that this year.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
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1 Giglio, please. Is she here?
2 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: She is.
3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO: Hello.
4 So first I want to thank you very much
5 for taking the time to meet with me before
6 this hearing today to discuss any concerns
7 that I may have had. I thought that was very
8 considerate of you, so I wanted to thank you
9 for that.
10 And then I wanted to talk to you about
11 new markets for recyclables that DOT may be
12 considering, because we have a lot of
13 problems with recycling, with redemption
14 centers, with bottle bills and things of that
15 nature. And I know that Easthampton, on
16 Long Island, was pulverizing the glass and
17 using it for roadbed or the road
18 right-of-ways so that -- not necessarily on
19 the road itself.
20 So I just wanted to touch base and see
21 if you have any plans for new markets,
22 recyclables that DOT could consider for other
23 uses that we could work together on, number
24 one.
320
1 And then number two, I know that
2 there's a great need for mechanics with the
3 DOT, and I'm wondering if you have considered
4 working with union companies on Long Island
5 and throughout the state for apprenticeship
6 programs on those facilities so that they
7 could train the younger generation, perhaps a
8 BOCES certificate-holder, in order to get
9 into heavy-equipment mechanics.
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So with
11 regard to recyclables, yes, we definitely use
12 them. And we're excited about using them in
13 various projects.
14 I can tell you we just completed a
15 project out in Utica and applied it --
16 recycled glass. And we do it, it's part of
17 our specification process. And it's one more
18 way that we're looking at to reduce carbon
19 across the board. So can talk to you more
20 about that, but it is definitely incorporated
21 into our specs. And again, on our climate
22 goals.
23 With regard to the mechanics,
24 absolutely. We're doing everything we
321
1 possibly can to recruit and bring folks in.
2 We've got a great -- excuse me -- program
3 that we have with SUNY Cobleskill to teach
4 mechanics and bring them in. It's a great
5 partnership that we'd like to further
6 leverage. Excuse me (coughing).
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO: Yes, can you
8 hold my clock?
9 Please, take your time.
10 (Off the record.)
11 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Please, don't
12 worry about it. Okay, Commissioner?
13 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Thanks.
14 Let me just grab a cough drop.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Take it easy.
16 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: You got
17 me all worked up about --
18 (Cross-talk.)
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO: I'm sorry, I --
20 (Laughter.)
21 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Okay,
22 thank you.
23 So the bottom line is that DOT
24 operations doesn't work if our equipment
322
1 doesn't work, so we're highly invested in our
2 mechanics and our fleet operations. So
3 recruiting and bringing folks in is
4 fundamental to our work. And if you've got
5 some ideas on how we can continue to do that
6 on Long Island, we'd be happy to work with
7 you on that.
8 But we've got a great model with SUNY
9 that we're leveraging.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO: Okay, great.
11 And I would also really like to thank you for
12 your oversight of the project labor
13 agreements on the Long Island Expressway and
14 all of our state roads on Long Island. There
15 has not been one that has slipped by. So
16 we're very happy with that and keeping a
17 living wage going on Long Island where it's
18 very much needed. So thank you for that.
19 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Thank
20 you.
21 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
22 Senator Comrie, three-minute chair
23 follow-up.
24 SENATOR COMRIE: Hi, Commissioner.
323
1 I always ask you every year, where's
2 my Cross Island Parkway project upgrade? And
3 have you been able to track the usage now
4 that UBS Arena is in service?
5 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Sir, I
6 appreciate you asking every year, and every
7 year we go back with City DOT on that, so.
8 SENATOR COMRIE: I hope that we
9 increase that access for that road. That's a
10 very major roadway for Long Island to access
11 the city. Some of the usage has gone up
12 because of the arena, which is a good thing
13 for commerce for the state. But for traffic
14 traveling, time of travel, it's just making
15 it harder for people to get back and forth
16 from Queens to Long Island. I would hope
17 that we can move that forward.
18 What does DOT do as far as making sure
19 that vehicles are properly insured?
20 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Sir,
21 that's under the jurisdiction of DMV on the
22 insurance.
23 SENATOR COMRIE: So when the State
24 Troopers do -- when the state -- you don't
324
1 oversee or monitor the numbers of arrests
2 from the State Troopers pulling people over?
3 They don't send that information to you?
4 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: No, sir.
5 SENATOR COMRIE: And no one has
6 reached out to you about the issues of
7 insuring fleet vehicles and commuter vehicles
8 at all? You don't get any information about
9 those?
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well, I
11 think with regard to our own fleet, yes, we
12 have to follow the state rules. But beyond
13 that, we don't have jurisdiction over --
14 oversight over others. Other than -- the
15 only thing I can think of as part of the
16 inspection process for motor buses and --
17 SENATOR COMRIE: And just a final
18 question. Have they improved the lifetime of
19 the pavement that they're putting down now so
20 that they don't have to pave as often?
21 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We do.
22 We use a lot of different materials to try
23 and make sure that we're using proper mixes
24 to extend the life, as well as preserve what
325
1 we have right now. So we abide by a
2 preservation-first policy.
3 SENATOR COMRIE: And the pavement
4 that's been put down now is BHPA-free or free
5 of toxic chemicals that may have seepage into
6 the roadways or into the waterways?
7 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well,
8 it's a variety of chemicals and -- but I
9 would also say that it's a variety of --
10 we're looking at -- we've applied a number of
11 techniques that are looking at how do we
12 reduce carbon emissions asphalt application.
13 So cold in-place recycling and some other
14 things, high-performance concrete --
15 everything that we can do to reduce the
16 carbon that we're using with regard to road
17 rehabilitation.
18 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you. Thank
19 you, Commissioner, for your service.
20 Thank you.
21 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Thank
22 you.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Assembly.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
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1 Shimsky.
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Thank you very
3 much, Commissioner. And let me join the
4 chorus of praise for your willingness to
5 dialogue with us on the issues in our areas.
6 Your office has been great, and my DOT
7 region, Region 8, has been working very, very
8 hard -- but some really challenging issues.
9 Going back to Region 8, there are
10 statistical analyses that suggest that
11 Region 8's roads are among the most
12 problematic in the state in terms of pavement
13 condition scores and so on. And also it
14 appears that the gap between Region 8 and
15 other regions seems to be growing over time.
16 So what can be done to catch up
17 Region 8? And is it time to consider
18 tweaking the funding formulas?
19 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So I
20 would say a couple of things. When we look
21 at the capital plan, it's over five years.
22 And so if there are parts of the state that
23 DOT is executing the capital plan in, some
24 years, you know, we oversubscribe in some
327
1 areas and undersubscribe in others. The
2 bottom line is is to bring the balance and to
3 bring the goals into line by the end of
4 Year 5.
5 So I would say give us the ability to
6 do all of that, because we have resources to
7 actually help come into play across the
8 board, meaning people, execution of
9 contracts, that type of thing. So in the
10 Hudson Valley in particular, if the concern
11 is is that we may not have gotten to a
12 contract or two -- like I said, sometimes we
13 pull contracts that were -- or projects that
14 were slated for outyears into the current
15 year if they're more ripe. And then the same
16 thing; give us the time to do it over the
17 course of the five years.
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Okay. What is
19 DOT's current view on the use of red-light
20 cameras to prevent the kinds of traffic and
21 pedestrian fatalities we've been talking
22 about, and how do you see that view evolving
23 over time?
24 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Right now
328
1 the Department of Transportation doesn't --
2 the only red-light camera authority we have
3 is not red-light camera authority. It is
4 actually cameras in the work zone. And
5 that's the existing authority that we have to
6 monitor speed and enforce it. It's specific
7 to highway workers and their safety.
8 Over the history of the department,
9 we've seen over 80 deaths in highway work
10 zones. Which is why we are grateful to the
11 Legislature and to the Governor for the
12 legislation that was passed, and what we're
13 implementing right now.
14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: We need to
15 clean out our culverts. Thank you.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: All right, we
17 got that last word in there.
18 Member Gallagher, please.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER: Hi.
20 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Hello.
21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER: Nice to see
22 you, Commissioner. Thank you, Chair.
23 I remember we had a great conversation
24 about our environmental goals a couple of
329
1 weeks ago. And I was rereading the New York
2 City Comptroller's report, and it shows that
3 half of the highway formula funds spent in
4 New York have been used to expand highways.
5 So I was wondering, how does DOT calculate
6 the associated greenhouse gas emissions,
7 especially considering that there's
8 substantial research that demonstrates that
9 expanding highways induces more people to
10 drive and leads to higher emissions?
11 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So I will
12 tell you that one of the goals that we're
13 looking to do across the board is, one, meet
14 our CLCPA requirements, which requires carbon
15 reduction. So as we take on projects as the
16 State DOT, we're not looking at
17 capacity-enhancing projects. We're not
18 looking to build a wider footprint.
19 In fact, we're trying to actually make
20 sure that we're not taking more land, that
21 we're actually being very conscious about
22 what we're doing to reduce vehicle miles
23 traveled and the number of cars, and looking
24 at alternatives. We want to drive more
330
1 transit, we want to drive more bike, we want
2 to drive more pedestrian.
3 And so all of those criterias are part
4 of how we scope out projects, so that we're
5 limiting the expansion, so to speak, of any
6 roadway. What we're looking to do is
7 actually kind of refine it more, provide more
8 alternatives, and meet those goals under the
9 CLCPA.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER: Okay. Well,
11 then let's -- for example, in the Van Wyck
12 Expressway, we're adding two more lanes to
13 it. So I don't see how that is helping our
14 climate goals. And in the Comptroller's
15 report it said that we're adding lanes to
16 most of these -- these projects.
17 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So the
18 Van Wyck in particular is a project to do a
19 couple of things. One, the roadway is very
20 old and in need of repair. Two, it's
21 creating a managed-use lane. And it's within
22 the existing footprint, so we're not taking
23 additional land. We're improving five
24 bridges, including Long Island Rail Road
331
1 bridges, to enhance capacity and efficiency
2 of the transit systems as well as create a
3 managed-use lane along the Van Wyck, so that
4 people can get to the airport in a more
5 streamlined fashion.
6 The bottom line is you've got so much
7 congestion on the Van Wyck right now. We
8 need to get people moving faster so that the
9 emissions are not as high. But the
10 managed-use lane, moving forward, we can look
11 at how we can use electric buses. How do we
12 actually manage the use of that lane is, you
13 know, to be determined. But the bottom line
14 is there's a lot of different ways that we
15 can utilize new technologies, new vehicles to
16 actually make sure that we're using it
17 wisely.
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER: Okay.
19 Thanks.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
21 Commissioner. Thank you.
22 Member Jacobson.
23 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Hello,
24 sir.
332
1 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Hi,
2 Commissioner. Good to see you again.
3 Usually at these things I'm ranting
4 and raving about some problem, but I first
5 want to thank you for following up on our
6 conversation concerning Route 84 between the
7 Thruway exit and the Newburgh-Beacon Bridge,
8 which is so heavily traveled and was brutal.
9 And I can finally go to that area worrying
10 about the traffic and not the potholes and
11 worrying about my car.
12 And thanks for meeting with me on the
13 priorities in my district.
14 One thing I want to bring up is -- and
15 I mentioned this briefly -- is that local
16 municipalities are under the obligation, and
17 frankly they should be, to comply with ADA
18 rules when they're paving. And this happens
19 in -- mostly in cities and villages.
20 I think there should be a new formula
21 or an additional formula with CHIPS with
22 additional money for ADA compliance. I mean,
23 occasionally I'm able to get additional
24 money, say, for the City of Newburgh to -- so
333
1 that they're able to get more done. But the
2 difficulty is is that it costs -- it costs as
3 much to do the -- or I'd say more, much more,
4 to do the ADA compliance with the paving. So
5 I hope that you would try to do something on
6 that.
7 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I can
8 tell you that the first thing that we've done
9 is be very clear on the compliance portion of
10 the ADA, and that goes with our local program
11 specifications as well, when I talk about the
12 achievements that we've made and I rattled
13 the list off to Senator Kennedy, ADA ramps or
14 curb cuts, we have instituted about 2180
15 statewide in the first two years of this
16 capital plan.
17 So I realize it costs money. It's the
18 right thing to do. And it helps across the
19 board with accessibility.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: I mean, even if
21 the program was such that the municipalities
22 could be reimbursed. Because obviously
23 everybody would like to get additional money.
24 But if they got reimbursed with proof of
334
1 doing the ADA compliance in certain spots, it
2 could be a way of helping particularly cities
3 that have the burden.
4 The other thing is you mentioned about
5 the EV charging stations, which I've been a
6 big proponent. One thing, though, the
7 state -- and mostly NYSERDA, but you work
8 with them -- has generally been pushing
9 Level 2 and not Level 3. Level 3 is the
10 quick one that you can get mostly done within
11 a half-hour. Level 2 is the slow one. It's
12 not as bad as Level 1 that you would have in
13 your house.
14 But I was just hoping that you could
15 push for that.
16 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So the
17 NEVI program, the National Electric Vehicle
18 Infrastructure program, we're working with
19 NYPA and NYSERDA on that. That is the DC
20 fast-charging Level 3.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
22 Commissioner.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Okay, good.
24 Thank you.
335
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member Simon.
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Thank you,
3 Mr. Chair. And thank you, Commissioner, for
4 weathering this long testimony here.
5 So first I want to thank you for
6 always being accessible to me and to the
7 elected officials in my district in
8 Region 11, which is the really, really
9 biggest, most congested region in the city.
10 And as you know, we've been organizing a
11 corridor-wide group of people, including
12 elected officials, along the BQE corridor,
13 which I know is the bane of your existence as
14 well as mine.
15 And, you know, as you know, we're
16 united in wanting a solution to the BQE
17 corridor that focuses on climate and health
18 impacts and improves air quality throughout
19 the corridor, which is just evidence of
20 Robert Moses and mostly environmental justice
21 communities that are really impacted by this.
22 Now, I know that you've been working
23 behind the scenes with City DOT on those
24 things that State DOT has technical
336
1 competence on, and I really appreciate that.
2 But one of the things we talked about is the
3 fact that the public doesn't realize that the
4 state is at the table. And I really want to
5 ask if the state can come to the table and be
6 more actively involved in engaging with the
7 community, because they desperately want to
8 hear from you. And I know you've
9 co-submitted a federal grant. But if you
10 could address that issue.
11 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So the --
12 we co-led an effort to submit the
13 Reconnecting Communities grant, with
14 City DOT. We have been at every public
15 meeting, representatives of New York State
16 DOT, that has occurred through the city
17 process.
18 And if we were to win this
19 Reconnecting Communities grant, it would be
20 yet another series of public engagements to
21 try and scope out what those opportunities
22 would be as we looked at what the additional
23 opportunities north and south of the triple
24 cantilever would be. So we'll be doing that
337
1 in conjunction with the city.
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Yeah, I think my
3 point is that while people have been there,
4 too few people realize that the state is
5 there. So it would be helpful if people
6 engaged a little bit, talked to people more,
7 that kind of thing, so that the public knows
8 that the state is at the table.
9 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ:
10 Understood.
11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Thank you. I
12 appreciate it very much.
13 And I'm not going to ask you about
14 culverts. Although, you know --
15 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
16 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: They're
17 really important for resiliency. Thank you.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay, thank
19 you, Commissioner.
20 Member González-Rojas.
21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Thank
22 you, Commissioner. Thank you, Chair.
23 I've long been an advocate for
24 pedestrian safety, cyclist safety, and public
338
1 transportation -- and now a statistic. I got
2 hit two weeks ago in New York City, and
3 obviously there's -- we've seen really high
4 rates of both crashes and deaths in our
5 communities. And Assemblymember Cunningham
6 talked about children in particular.
7 So I think we spent some time today
8 talking about traffic violence. It's at a
9 high crisis right now. You talked about
10 education, enforcement, information sharing.
11 Our chairman mentioned supporting speed
12 cameras. Is there any other very specific
13 engineering changes --
14 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Yes.
15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: --
16 capital changes? Can you speak to them?
17 What's your need, either this budget or
18 moving forward, in order to really address
19 the engineering or design to create more safe
20 streets?
21 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So
22 there's a number of categories that we look
23 at from the engineering perspective. And
24 it's not -- it's not all dollar-driven, but
339
1 there -- but if we were to define it, there's
2 some highway safety improvement dollars that
3 are leveraged at the federal level down to
4 the states.
5 There's Complete Streets. We've got
6 especially -- the Legislature passed last
7 year $5 million that we're leveraging right
8 now, Complete Streets and targeting, in
9 particular, underserved communities. But
10 this gives us an opportunity to look at the
11 engineering as well as the execution, I'll
12 say, of creating those safer environments.
13 I mean, quite frankly, the other thing
14 that's -- the debate that's happening at the
15 national level is also kind of the debate
16 about the mental health of our country.
17 Because you see people that are angry,
18 they're distracted, and they're literally
19 behind a car that weighs tons, and it becomes
20 a vessel.
21 And I'm sorry for your injury, but
22 there's -- it's a more comprehensive look
23 that we have to undertake. There's a lot of
24 research that's going on right now at the
340
1 national level, Transportation Research Board
2 and others. National Academy of Sciences is
3 looking at the science behind all this. But
4 it's going to take a while to really
5 understand it. In the meantime we need to do
6 everything we can to both look at the three
7 E's -- engineering, education, enforcement --
8 but then also, as the Governor put forward in
9 the budget, look at the mental health of our
10 citizens and how do we make sure that we're
11 investing in all of that. Because it plays
12 out in all different ways. Transportation's
13 just one way.
14 ASSEMBLYWOMAN GONZÁLEZ-ROJAS: Thank
15 you so much.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
17 Commissioner.
18 Member Mitaynes, please.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: Hi.
20 Sunset Park residents live every day
21 with the continued environmental injustice of
22 the Gowanus Expressway above Third Avenue.
23 In addition to applying to the
24 federal Reconnecting Communities grant, what
341
1 is the agency doing now to mitigate the harm
2 and to protect and ensure the future plans
3 for the BQE, to eliminate the division
4 created by Robert Moses when it was built,
5 the elevated highway, reconnect the community
6 and reduce the air and noise impact of
7 traffic on the neighborhood?
8 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Well, as
9 you noted, we're looking at the Reconnect --
10 we've done a lot of work already just on the
11 structure of the bridge itself. Over the
12 last 10 years we've probably put in -- not
13 the bridge, but the stretch of Roadway 278
14 across the board, probably like $275 million
15 over the -- for the preservation of it.
16 That said, what you're asking about is
17 how do we actually work with the community on
18 some of the opportunities to improve the
19 actual conditions around the structure. And
20 that Reconnecting Communities grant that we
21 have applied for -- we're hoping that we
22 receive it -- will give us a plan, will, you
23 know, give us dollars to actually perform a
24 study to see what those opportunities might
342
1 look like in greater detail.
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: And what is
3 New York State DOT's response to why New York
4 City is still not allowed to set its own
5 speed limit and use every tool available to
6 reduce crashes and fatalities on our streets?
7 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I think
8 you're referring to the city setting their
9 own speed limits.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: Yes. And
11 what is your stance on the city not being
12 able to do that?
13 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: We --
14 that is -- it's not an issue that's within
15 the purview of New York State Department of
16 Transportation with regard to setting speed
17 limits for the city.
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: Okay, thank
19 you.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
21 Commissioner.
22 Member Ra, ranker.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you.
24 Good afternoon, Commissioner.
343
1 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Where --
2 oh, there you are.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Let me also echo the
4 sentiments of my colleagues. Thank you to
5 certainly you and your staff for their
6 responsiveness, especially down in the region
7 on Long Island.
8 I do want to follow up on a couple of
9 things, including what Mr. Slater asked
10 about. I understand -- you know, I think,
11 and I even went back and looked at it, I'm
12 sure counsel within your department could
13 confirm that there are no restrictions on DOT
14 sharing those reports with the minority, so I
15 really ask you to take a strong look at that.
16 But to the extent that you believe that
17 you're prohibited, I will be drafting a bill
18 to add the minority to the distribution list
19 and would ask for the department's support in
20 doing so.
21 So putting that aside, though, I want
22 to, on behalf of one of my colleagues,
23 Anil Beephan, who is not a member of one of
24 these communities so he's not able to
344
1 participate, but I believe he recently has
2 written to the department regarding a
3 guardrail on the Taconic State Parkway in the
4 location near where a East Fishkill police
5 officer was recently killed. And he just
6 asked if I could just bring that issue up and
7 bring it to your attention, because he's very
8 eager to work with the department on trying
9 to improve safety at that location.
10 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: I did
11 receive his letter, and we are looking at it.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Okay. Thank you. I
13 appreciate that.
14 The other thing that I just wanted to
15 get into is really a couple of local things
16 down in the district I represent, both
17 really -- I know they've been brought to the
18 attention of the department in the past, but
19 both relate to different sections of
20 Hempstead Turnpike, also known as Route 24,
21 you know, near the West Hempstead portion of
22 this up to the Village of Hempstead line.
23 I've gotten a lot of reports and complaints
24 from constituents regarding the condition of
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1 the pavement at that location.
2 There are other locations further west
3 that I think were repaved in recent years,
4 but it didn't go all the way to the village
5 line, the Village of Hempstead line, so I'd
6 ask you to look at that.
7 And then one that I think I pretty
8 much have brought up every year for several
9 years running is further up into East Meadow,
10 and in the vicinity of the Nassau Hub
11 property where there's a lot of talk about
12 development there, including the Sands casino
13 proposal. There's been some other
14 development done in the location. And
15 there's also talk very close to there of part
16 of the Nassau Community College campus being
17 used as a new medical campus.
18 And the Meadowbrook Parkway
19 interchanges in that location I think have
20 been in need of some modernization for
21 several years. So that's another location
22 that I'd appreciate continued dialogue with
23 your office regarding.
24 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Will do.
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1 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Commissioner,
3 I just have one more area I want to touch
4 base with. So this is my second round here.
5 Very quickly.
6 Last year the enacted budget included
7 $5 million for Complete Streets
8 infrastructure. What is the status of that
9 funding? How is it being disbursed? Who is
10 generally for the funding? And how does DOT
11 ensure that bike and pedestrian
12 infrastructure is included in state road and
13 bridge projects overall?
14 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: So I'll
15 start with the second piece of your question
16 first, which is we have a checklist for
17 Complete Streets. And what I mean by a
18 checklist is it's a really robust screening
19 tool. So that as we look to, you know,
20 launch a project, the Complete Streets
21 checklist is utilized by our design engineers
22 to make sure that we're looking at it from
23 every aspect. How can we make sure that
24 we're looking at geometry, design, lighting,
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1 painting, everything -- crosswalk safety, ADA
2 compliance.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: So this is
4 done on each project?
5 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: With
6 regard to the projects that are eligible for
7 Complete Streets treatments, yes.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. So --
9 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: And then
10 with regard to the $5 million investment in
11 Complete Streets, we're moving on that.
12 We've got projects that -- criteria that
13 we've outlined and are applying right now.
14 So I can get you a more specific
15 update on which projects those are. But
16 we've taken the $5 million investment and
17 we've looked at how we can actually look at
18 the underserved communities that it was
19 intended to actually serve, and then we're
20 putting out opportunities with our local
21 partners to figure out how those dollars can
22 be spent.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. I will
24 follow up on those.
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1 But which projects does the DOT look
2 at for bike and pedestrian infrastructure to
3 be included in these projects? How -- which
4 ones get it automatically? Which ones do
5 your engineers automatically look at
6 Complete Streets?
7 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: There's a
8 category within our project list. It's a 1R
9 category. I don't know what that stands for;
10 I wish I could tell you what the criteria
11 are. But it's basically how do we actually
12 look at Complete Streets features.
13 One of the things that we're looking
14 at that we've done differently is instead of
15 saying, you know, you need to put all of the
16 elements of Complete Streets, we're looking
17 at, okay, maybe we can't apply every element,
18 but there are some feature of Complete
19 Streets that we can apply to various
20 projects.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Right.
22 Right. Okay. So, I mean, but you're
23 looking -- the engineers are looking at that
24 all the time.
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1 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Correct.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. Not
3 that they're going to do a Complete Streets,
4 but they're going to look to see what might
5 be feasible.
6 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Correct.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay.
8 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: It's a
9 change in philosophy.
10 And the other portion of that is that
11 we're developing an active transportation
12 plan which does the -- which enhances it.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Well, with
14 that, I think we're going to let you go.
15 (Laughter.)
16 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: I want to
17 thank you very much for sitting through all
18 of this. I know it was not easy for you
19 today, on a personal note. And I really do
20 appreciate it. I know we all do, to you and
21 the department. Thank you very much for
22 answering our questions. I look forward to
23 working with you this year.
24 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Thank
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1 you. Thank you very much.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: The same for the
3 Senate. Thank you very much.
4 DOT COMMISSIONER DOMINGUEZ: Thank
5 you.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: All right.
7 We're into Panel A, I think. Is that what
8 we're calling it?
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: That's what we're
10 calling it.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: The New York
12 State Department of Motor Vehicles and the
13 New York State Thruway Authority, come on
14 down. Thank you.
15 (Off the record.)
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: If people can
17 move in and out as quietly as possible so we
18 can keep going. Thank you.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay, I guess
20 we will start with the Department of Motor
21 Vehicles. Commissioner, are you set?
22 (Off the record.)
23 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Okay?
24 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay.
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1 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
2 you. Thank you. Good afternoon. As a
3 former member of the New York State
4 Legislature, it is an honor to be with all of
5 you today.
6 It is my privilege to serve as the
7 Commissioner of Motor Vehicles and to lead a
8 customer-focused organization of nearly
9 3,000 dedicated civil servants.
10 For the past five years, I have
11 challenged the agency to reimagine our
12 customer service model and embrace innovation
13 to eliminate the status quo. Through that
14 mindset, and by putting our strategic plan
15 into action, we are serving customers in
16 record time, we have more online transactions
17 than ever, made it easier to contact the DMV,
18 and we are very close to updating our
19 technology to further build on our success.
20 Governor Hochul's Executive Budget
21 provides $665 million for DMV to implement
22 those critical improvements and to support
23 operations at both state and county-run
24 offices. This is more than offset by the
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1 approximately $2 billion, $2 billion DMV
2 generates annually.
3 Thanks to the continued investment by
4 the Governor and the Legislature, we expect
5 to launch a project this year to replace
6 DMV's 50-year-old driver and registration
7 systems with more streamlined and
8 user-friendly technology. It will not only
9 simplify and modernize our systems for today,
10 but will allow us to implement technology
11 changes more easily in the future.
12 The transformation of our call center
13 will also continue. Last year, we launched
14 and then expanded online chat and email
15 interactions. This year, we will leverage
16 the latest technology to make a more seamless
17 journey whether New Yorkers visit an office,
18 call us, or use our website.
19 Part of reimagining the DMV led us to
20 look at our offices to make sure they are
21 right-sized for the volume of customers they
22 help and that we are being good stewards of
23 taxpayer resources. Today, with more than
24 75, 75 online transactions available, we are
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1 serving more customers from the comfort of
2 their homes and fewer in person. In 2023,
3 8 million transactions were completed online.
4 That customer benefit enabled us to
5 consolidate our offices in Suffolk County
6 this past August -- a change that has been
7 positive and allowed us to boost staffing in
8 the remaining four locations in Suffolk that
9 historically served the most customers.
10 We also consolidated our innovation
11 center to a prime location on the Empire
12 State Plaza concourse that I know many of you
13 and your constituents have used.
14 We will continue to evaluate our
15 operational footprint and explore
16 possibilities to minimize costs, as we
17 further move into the age of digital
18 transactions.
19 DMV staff have also been at the
20 forefront of the state's fight against
21 surging vehicle thefts and implementing
22 various measures of the Governor's auto theft
23 reduction strategy. This past year alone,
24 DMV recovered $8.7 million worth of stolen
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1 vehicles and vehicle parts, and we worked
2 with auto dealers and manufacturers to assist
3 vehicle owners in preventing thefts.
4 Regarding limo safety. At the
5 direction of the Governor, DMV remains
6 focused on enhancing safety and increasing
7 enforcement surrounding stretch limousines.
8 More than 15 arrests have been made related
9 to illegal operation of stretch limousines
10 because of extensive work and collaboration
11 among DMV, DOT, and law enforcement. And I'm
12 happy to report that many of the
13 recommendations of the Stretch Limousine
14 Passenger Safety Task Force, which I
15 cochaired, have been implemented, and the
16 ones requiring legislation have been included
17 in a recent budget bill introduced by the
18 Governor.
19 Regarding tolling. We also know that
20 the modernization of the state's tolling
21 system has presented challenges. DMV is
22 working with tolling authorities to impose
23 administrative actions against toll evaders,
24 and we have partnered with law enforcement to
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1 crack down on the use of illegal or defaced
2 license plates.
3 Keeping our roads safe is central to
4 the mission of both DMV and the Governor's
5 Traffic Safety Committee, which I chair.
6 Together, we recently proposed a series of
7 regulatory amendments to make it easier to
8 remove persistently dangerous drivers from
9 our roadways. We anticipate this rule-making
10 process to continue this year.
11 Regarding e-bikes. We recognize the
12 transportation industry is never standing
13 still, and we need to evolve with it to keep
14 pace with emerging trends like the rise in
15 e-bikes. The Governor's Traffic Safety
16 Committee is proactively working with
17 New York City's Vision Zero and other
18 partners to promote safe operation and
19 storage of these devices.
20 GTSC also instituted a focused effort
21 to enhance traffic safety engagement in
22 underrepresented communities that are
23 disproportionately impacted by traffic
24 crashes and fatalities. Specific attention
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1 was given to pedestrian, bike, and
2 micro-mobility safety.
3 Regarding diversity. We are also
4 keenly focused on increasing equity within
5 our agency and maintaining a welcoming and
6 diverse place for our employees, vendors, and
7 the residents we serve. This past year we
8 established an office of Diversity, Equity,
9 and Inclusion to advance our goals. I am
10 also thrilled to say that more than
11 72 percent -- more than 72 percent of our
12 spending is done through MWBEs, and more than
13 20 percent is done through service-disabled
14 veteran-owned businesses, which is far above
15 the 6 percent required by law.
16 Regarding reentry. As part of
17 Governor Hochul's historic Jails to Jobs
18 initiative, we also expanded a project to
19 provide incarcerated individuals with
20 state-issued IDs prior to their release. I
21 am very proud to tell you that all 43
22 Department of Corrections and Community
23 Supervision, DOCCS, facilities are now
24 participating, and more 700 non-driver IDs
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1 have been issued. This is critical to
2 ensuring that that individuals can get a job,
3 find housing, access services, and ultimately
4 reenter society successfully.
5 Regarding CDLs. Addressing the
6 shortage of truck and bus drivers continues
7 to be an area of focus for DMV. At the
8 Governor's direction we recently implemented
9 a federal waiver for part of the commercial
10 driver license road test to make it easier to
11 get prospective bus drivers licensed and
12 ready to meet the need of our schools
13 statewide.
14 Regarding Donate Life. DMV is also
15 uniquely positioned to support the state's
16 organ donor registry. More than 80 percent
17 of potential donors join the registry through
18 the DMV. This past year we gave New Yorkers
19 another way to join the registry by adding
20 that life-saving question to vehicle
21 registration transactions.
22 And finally, we like to have a little
23 fun at DMV, so I was proud to tour the state
24 last year to unveil new regional license
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1 plates. They are reflective of the unique
2 landscape and history across the state and
3 give residents a way to show their pride in
4 their communities.
5 As you can see, the DMV is as diverse
6 as the people, businesses, and entities we
7 serve and support. Our strength is in that
8 diversity, our willingness to adapt, and the
9 commitment of our workforce to provide
10 exemplary service to the people of this great
11 state. And it does not go unnoticed. I
12 start every executive meeting with a reading
13 of what I call customer kudos, compliments
14 that people have sent in to praise DMV for a
15 job well done. So I would like to take a
16 minute to brag and share some of the recent
17 comments we received.
18 One New Yorker said, "The best DMV
19 experience I've ever had." Another said, "I
20 was in and out in 15 minutes because the
21 process was so efficient." Another
22 New Yorker: "I pulled up in the parking lot
23 and returned to my car in 10 minutes with new
24 plates in hand." And finally, a customer
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1 wrote: "Thank you for dispelling the
2 stereotypes about nonresponsive government."
3 Those comments convey exactly what we
4 have set out to do, but our work is not done.
5 Transforming the DMV has become part of our
6 agency's identity.
7 And I will entertain any questions
8 that you might have.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
10 Thank you.
11 Acting Director? Not acting -- active
12 director, right? What is the --
13 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Acting,
14 Mr. Chairman.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay.
16 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Thank
17 you. Thank you, Chairs Krueger and
18 Magnarelli and Senator Kennedy and Chair
19 Comrie and Chair Zebrowski.
20 My name is Frank Hoare. I'm the
21 acting executive director of the Thruway
22 Authority. With your permission, after
23 having served here for 11 years as the
24 general counsel to Chairman Denny Farrell, I
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1 understand that brevity is the soul of
2 testimony.
3 (Laughter.)
4 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: So with
5 your permission, I would dispense with my
6 written remarks and just give the highlights.
7 Thank you.
8 The Thruway Authority budget
9 represents a total commitment of
10 $1.3 billion. It provides the resources
11 required to maintain the current levels of
12 maintenance, safety and service that our
13 customers have come to expect. This balanced
14 spending plan includes $450 million for
15 capital program improvements in the next year
16 over the Thruway system.
17 Looking ahead, our five-year capital
18 program will commit $2.4 billion into
19 resurfacing our road, rebuilding and
20 rehabilitating bridges, and enhancing safety
21 features like guide-rail and road striping.
22 That figure represents an increase of
23 approximately $500 million from the 2023
24 budget, and it is made possible because of
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1 the toll adjustment that took effect this
2 past January 1st. Again, I repeat, that's
3 $2.4 billion over the next five years. That
4 means greater safety, and it means
5 New Yorkers going to work.
6 The 2024 capital program makes
7 critical investments and addresses
8 infrastructure needs throughout the state and
9 in our four operational divisions. In the
10 Capital Region, we will be resurfacing
11 approximately 36 lane miles between
12 Schenectady and Rotterdam, and increasing the
13 bridge height at the Exit 25 interchange
14 bridge.
15 In the Mid-Hudson Valley, we will be
16 resurfacing nearly 50 lane miles of I-87
17 between Harriman and Newburgh. In Western
18 New York, we will be reconstructing the first
19 four miles of the Niagara Thruway in Buffalo
20 between I-90 and Elm Street, as well as
21 resurfacing more than 64 lane miles on I-90
22 between Dunkirk and Westfield. Central
23 New York will see the resurfacing of
24 approximately 50 lane miles between
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1 Canajoharie and Little Falls, in addition to
2 the rehabilitation of approximately 24 miles
3 in the Rochester area between Canandaigua and
4 Victor. This work translates to a smoother
5 riding surface for motorists, enhanced safety
6 features, and a visual reminder of our
7 reinvestment of our customers' toll dollars.
8 As a testament to our fiscal prudence
9 and discipline, Standard & Poor's recently
10 raised its long-term rating on our general
11 revenue bonds to A+. Additionally, Moody's
12 Investors Service revised their outlook to
13 positive from stable and affirmed the A1
14 rating of the outstanding general revenue
15 bonds. This translates to real savings by
16 enabling the authority to borrow at lower
17 rates, and therefore allows us to make
18 further investments in our system.
19 In 2023, motorists took 397 million
20 trips and drove 8.1 billion miles on the
21 Thruway. The Thruway is the principal artery
22 of commerce and serves as a catalyst of the
23 state's economic activity, with 17 percent of
24 our total traffic coming from commercial
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1 vehicles and about one-third of that from out
2 of state.
3 Our service areas, just like the
4 Thruway system, provide benefits to local
5 communities. For example, the Taste NY
6 program, which recently celebrated its
7 10th anniversary, is prominently featured at
8 our farmer's markets in our service areas.
9 We are supporting local farmers and food and
10 beverage producers.
11 Other community benefits include
12 partnerships with local small businesses, who
13 are awarded contracts to work on the Thruway
14 system. The authority pays annually in
15 excess of $270 million to contractors and
16 other providers of goods and services that
17 are based in New York.
18 That is part of our service area
19 project of $450 million in investment, where
20 23 of the 27 service areas will be rebuilt,
21 with significant renovations to the remaining
22 four. Currently we are close to halfway
23 through the project, with 13 new buildings
24 open and three more by the start of the
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1 summer travel season. Again I note that no
2 toll dollars or federal, state or local
3 taxpayer funding is being used in the
4 reconstruction.
5 Another feature is the EV chargers
6 along the Thruway as part of our continued
7 commitment to the environment. Currently
8 there are 59 EV charging stations in
9 operation at Thruway commuter lots, select
10 service areas, and welcome centers. We have
11 an additional 38 high-speed charging stations
12 that will be operational by this summer, for
13 a total of 97 charging stations. Motorists
14 can currently drive from New York City to
15 Buffalo and be confident in their ability to
16 access EV charging stations along the
17 entirety of the Thruway.
18 The operator will be installing at
19 least four high-speed EV chargers at each
20 service area, and our plan is to create a
21 robust end-to-end corridor of more than
22 130 fast-charging EV stations with an average
23 of 30 miles between each location, which
24 exceeds the federal standard, which is at
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1 50 miles.
2 The authority currently meets the EV
3 charging needs of our customers, and we are
4 planning for the future of our customers'
5 charging needs. Over the next approximately
6 10 years we will add 320 EV charging stations
7 along the Thruway. In addition to addressing
8 the EV needs of passenger vehicles, we are
9 working toward increasing the EV needs of the
10 medium and heavy-duty vehicle industry.
11 Because tolls are our primary revenue
12 source, we expect all motorists using the
13 Thruway to pay their tolls, and we make every
14 effort to collect every single toll owed to
15 us. The vast majority of our customers
16 appreciate our commitment to them and pay on
17 time.
18 To bolster our toll collection
19 efforts, I want to express our support and
20 thanks to Governor Hochul's Article VII toll
21 violation proposal, which is in the TED bill
22 at Part C. This bill will outlaw certain
23 common toll evasion practices and it will
24 enhance the enforcement by increasing fines
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1 and providing law enforcement with the
2 ability to seize materials affixed for the
3 purpose of blocking numbered plates.
4 And speaking of great legislation, we
5 want to thank you. We see the benefits of
6 Chairman Kennedy and Chairman Magnarelli's
7 Automated Work Zone Speed Enforcement program
8 that Governor Hochul signed into law in
9 September of 2021. We have seen drivers
10 change their behavior by slowing down in work
11 zones. We have seen them drop their average
12 speed from 55 to 50. And since the program's
13 inception, the authority has mailed more than
14 40,000 first violations to motorists and
15 collected more than 1.6 million in
16 violations, all of which is funneled back
17 into safety programs.
18 And I would note that fewer than
19 360 motorists out of those 40,000 have
20 disputed their notices of violation.
21 Finally, our accomplishments are made
22 possible because of the dedication of our
23 board of directors and the commitment from
24 the 1700 employees of the Thruway Authority.
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1 Their dedication and professionalism ensure
2 that the Thruway continues to be a safe and
3 reliable highway for all motorists.
4 A recent example of this selflessness
5 and dedication are the most recent storms in
6 Western New York that brought whiteout
7 conditions, heavy winds, frigid temperatures
8 and several feet of snow in some areas. The
9 Buffalo division led the way and included
10 reinforcements from the Thruway Authority's
11 Albany, New York and Syracuse divisions, who
12 worked around the clock in freezing
13 temperatures to plow and assist commercial
14 drivers who had ventured out, in defiance of
15 the commercial ban that was instituted, and
16 got stuck.
17 In closing, please know I remain
18 committed to keeping the Thruway the safest
19 and most reliable means of travel in the
20 state. Whether one is commuting to work,
21 visiting family or friends, enjoying the
22 recreational opportunities around our state,
23 or supporting the freight economy, the
24 Thruway will take you there.
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1 That concludes my testimony, subject
2 to your questions. Thank you very much.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
4 We're going to start out with the Senate, I
5 believe.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Chair Tim
7 Kennedy.
8 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
9 Commissioner Schroeder, thank you for
10 that testimony. Very good to hear all the
11 positive things happening at the DMV. Also
12 to Executive Director Hoare, thank you so
13 much for your leadership and your
14 partnership. The both of you have been
15 extraordinarily responsive. Anytime my
16 office has reached out, your teams have been
17 exceptional to work with, and I'm very
18 grateful.
19 Starting with the DMV, I'm going to
20 try and cut my time in half here. Just
21 getting into the Internet Point and Insurance
22 Reduction Program that's extended for a
23 couple more years in the Executive proposal,
24 it was first authorized back in 2005. Are
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1 there any changes in the extension, or is it
2 simply a clean extension? And is it
3 something that you would like to see the
4 IPIRP program made permanent by the
5 Legislature?
6 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Senator,
7 as you indicated, this started some time ago.
8 It started when I was in the New York State
9 Assembly, and it is part of TED Part F. And
10 it will extend now to 2026.
11 The course is available for people who
12 want an insurance discount or who seek to
13 reduce the number of points against them on
14 their driving record.
15 In terms of it being permanent, I
16 would say respectfully that's probably
17 something for the Legislature to consider.
18 But for now we've been able to do everything
19 we're supposed to do in terms of working it
20 properly even through the extension program.
21 SENATOR KENNEDY: Great. Thank you.
22 The Executive proposal calls for an
23 increase in appropriations at the DMV citing
24 technology. Can you discuss what those
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1 upgrades would be and what benefits that
2 customers could expect to see?
3 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
4 you, Senator. And I often use your
5 neighborhoods to talk about what DMV has gone
6 through over the last 50 or 60 years. If you
7 know, if you remember -- and I know you do --
8 in some of your old neighborhoods like Little
9 Hollywood, the Old First Ward, and the Valley
10 area, there's little cabooses on the end of
11 their houses, right? And then when the
12 couple were going to have another baby, there
13 would be another caboose, and another
14 caboose.
15 This is exactly what DMV has done over
16 the last 60 years. We have legacy lines that
17 date back to Governor Rockefeller. And then
18 what did we do? In the seventies we added
19 on, we added on, we added on. When you add
20 on like that, it's not going to be a
21 comprehensive product.
22 So what we're doing -- and this
23 funding, this $168 million really does help
24 us, so we're grateful to the Governor and to
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1 the Legislature. This will underwrite the
2 transformation and also the tech redesign.
3 We probably have over 150 data lines. We
4 don't need them. We're going to retire them.
5 And then this project is helping us
6 underwrite what we need to bring in the new
7 technology.
8 So we're very excited about this.
9 We've been working on this for a long time.
10 I have 20 teams that have been working on
11 this for as long as I've been the
12 commissioner, since 2019. We are making
13 tremendous progress. This is a five-year
14 comprehensive plan. It's probably going to
15 take us four years to enact, and we're deep
16 involved in it right now, and we're grateful
17 for your support.
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Great. Great.
19 Thank you very much.
20 Last year the Legislature passed and
21 the Governor signed legislation that permits
22 driver's license reciprocity. And I'm very
23 grateful for your efforts with me and my
24 colleagues in helping to make that happen and
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1 work through the process so that it actually
2 could become law.
3 Where is the DMV as it pertains to
4 that agreement? And have there been any --
5 you know, in the process working it through,
6 have there been any agreements with any
7 nations or territories yet?
8 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yes. So,
9 you know, thanks to the Legislature, thanks
10 to the Governor, it is law. In DMV, we
11 embrace the law. And so we are 100 percent
12 involved in this.
13 To date, to be specific, to answer
14 your question, France, Taiwan and the
15 Dominican Republic have expressed interest in
16 establishing a reciprocal agreement.
17 The difficult part -- we're going to
18 be able to do it, but the complexity here is
19 that DMV now has the responsibility to
20 revaluate the countries who are seeking
21 reciprocity, because we have to make sure
22 that we're on the same page here. And so we
23 are prepared, DMV is ready to roll, and we
24 will continue to report out the progress.
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1 But it's not only for the three countries I
2 just mentioned. Any country who has an
3 interest in New York State, once they go
4 through the application process, we will
5 engage with them and make sure that we're
6 successful.
7 SENATOR KENNEDY: Perfect. Thank you
8 very much. And thank you again,
9 Commissioner.
10 To Mr. Hoare, thank you again for your
11 leadership, your efforts. I want to switch
12 to the Thruway Authority. Can you give us an
13 update on the status of the rest stop
14 reconstruction project and when we can
15 expect full completion?
16 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE:
17 Currently there are 13 out of the 27 rest
18 stops that have been completely rebuilt.
19 They're open and functioning. In the next
20 several months, by the start of the summer
21 driving season, you'll see another three open
22 up. And then that -- the remaining 11 will
23 open up by the end of -- over the next 18
24 months, but by the end of -- we anticipate by
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1 the end of 2025 the project being completed.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: Great. So it is on
3 track.
4 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Well,
5 it's on a new track. There is an
6 eight-to-10-month delay that we've
7 experienced, allegedly -- the design-builder
8 alleges because of COVID and geopolitical
9 events, so we'll see.
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: But it's moving
11 forward.
12 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: It's
13 moving forward, yes.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: Construction
15 continues.
16 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: It does.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
18 Are there any changes -- first of all,
19 thank you for recognizing the work zone
20 safety legislation that was passed and signed
21 into law. You know, it's clearly working,
22 and those numbers are eye-popping. Are there
23 any changes that the Thruway Authority would
24 recommend to that program, how successful
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1 you've been catching speeders, and what we
2 can do to enhance it, especially with repeat
3 offenders?
4 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: We've
5 seen many -- maybe about 40,000 are repeat
6 offenders {sic}. So at this point I think
7 it's working. We see it in the numbers. And
8 again, I think the most important fact is
9 what we've seen from the data is that finally
10 folks have that message and they are dropping
11 their miles per hour as they approach a work
12 zone. The word is out.
13 We operate 10 on a weekly basis. We
14 move them around. And we have seen -- we've
15 been successful in -- we think in dropping
16 that number, and the numbers, the data
17 support that.
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Yeah, again, 40,000
19 violations is an eye-popping number.
20 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: And I
21 think the 360 only challenging it shows that
22 that -- how many people realize what they
23 did.
24 SENATOR KENNEDY: Right. Thank you
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1 for that.
2 Just going back to the service area
3 redesign and the redevelopment project, it
4 calls for an installation of high-speed EV
5 chargers at all areas. Do these plans leave
6 room for growth as we continue to see EVs
7 become more and more the norm? And what
8 additional steps can we take to enhance the
9 use of these EV chargers and the expansion of
10 them in the redesign plan?
11 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Senator,
12 the current contract to rebuild the Thruway
13 service areas calls for a minimum of four to
14 six EV chargers at each service area,
15 depending on the size. But built into the
16 contract is a provision that the operator
17 must increase those numbers as demand grows.
18 So as I said, over the next 10 years
19 the plan is to add an additional 320 chargers
20 throughout the system. And again, we have
21 them not just at the service areas, we have
22 them at our park-and-ride lots, we have them
23 at the landings on the Cuomo Bridge, and we
24 have them at the welcome centers.
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1 SENATOR KENNEDY: In part of my work
2 as Transportation chair I've come across new
3 technology that will allow for charging
4 infrastructure for vehicles while they're
5 actually moving. Is the Thruway Authority
6 examining the feasibility of doing a pilot on
7 this sort of technology?
8 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Well,
9 we're following the technology every day. We
10 are applying aggressively for federal grants.
11 We hope to be part of some of the federal
12 spending on that, to increase those numbers.
13 But we are talking with partners in the
14 private sector --
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you, Frank.
16 You'll need to follow up afterwards or in
17 writing. Thank you.
18 SENATOR KENNEDY: Complete that
19 sentence in writing.
20 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Yes,
21 sir.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay, I
23 believe I have a few questions, so we're
24 going to start it with the commissioner of
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1 DMV. Okay?
2 The proposed budget from the Governor
3 calls for an increase of $184 million for the
4 DMV, right? And about 178.4 million of that
5 appropriation is for basically your IT
6 upgrades, which we're kind of in the last
7 phases of, from what I understand and from
8 what you've been talking about.
9 But a couple of questions. Will any
10 additional funding be required for this
11 project? When will the upgrades be complete?
12 What new services will be moved online, and
13 what other improvements will your customers
14 experience as a result of the project? Are
15 there any specific benchmarks for improving
16 service? And will these IT upgrades result
17 in any savings?
18 So in other words, are we on stride?
19 Is it going to cost any more money? And what
20 are we getting out of it when it's done?
21 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah,
22 thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
23 And so this is what I refer to as a
24 five-year comprehensive plan of excellence.
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1 It's going to take us about four years to
2 implement. And so we are going strong right
3 now. And also the services in terms -- when
4 I became the commissioner, we could do about
5 47 online transactions. We now can do 77.
6 The goal of DMV is meet your
7 constituents and our customers where they
8 are. So the goal is that we want to be able
9 to do every single transaction online to give
10 our customers that option.
11 The only two things that we're unable
12 to do right now are federal requirements
13 having to do with Real ID and the Enhanced
14 Driver's License. But everything else we are
15 trying. And this -- this opportunity of
16 transformation and tech redesign, we're in
17 the driver's seat to be able to do this.
18 In terms of the benchmarks that you
19 talk about, when I talk about the kudos, the
20 compliments, these are New Yorkers who are
21 busy. These are legislators, Assemblymembers
22 and Senators who are busy. And when they
23 call us and when they email us to tell us a
24 job well done, that means we are hitting the
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1 benchmarks that we strive to do. When
2 customers say, "You know, the last time I
3 came into DMV it took me four hours; now it's
4 15 minutes." So things are really going well
5 in that regard.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: I understand
7 that, Commissioner. And I consider those
8 testimonials -- and you've gotten them from
9 my office, okay? So I'm one of them.
10 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
11 you.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: The bottom
13 line, though, is like what are we comparing
14 it against? Are we saving any money? Are we
15 looking -- or is it just, and validly, it's
16 just giving better service? Okay. But, I
17 mean, what are we going to measure it against
18 to see whether or not this program is
19 successful?
20 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah,
21 it's a great question. And I can tell you
22 anecdotally, and you'll know exactly what I'm
23 talking about. If you recall, last year in
24 Onondaga County the DMV office went down. It
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1 went down because there were outages and
2 glitches. That is a -- that's inconvenient
3 for your constituents, but it also -- it also
4 costs us money. So when we're able to be --
5 when we're able to have the proper
6 technology, and that's the course we're on
7 right now, there will be savings, no doubt.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: There's one
9 other question I want to ask you also. The
10 Executive proposal Article VII authorizes DMV
11 to replace the existing system to verify
12 motor vehicle insurance with an online
13 insurance verification system. Okay? I
14 don't believe that's the same thing that
15 Senator Kennedy was asking you about. But
16 what I'm concerned about here in a nutshell
17 is who's driving this, the DMV or the
18 insurance companies? And who's going to make
19 the final determination on the outcome?
20 Because I'm concerned about that. I
21 want to make sure -- to be honest with you, I
22 want to make sure the DMV makes the final
23 determination of how we're going to do this.
24 And that's what I'm looking at in that
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1 Article VII language.
2 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: So
3 Mr. Chairman, to your concerns, they lay with
4 DMV. DMV and our staff will be -- will
5 continue to implement. This will be a
6 technology. This technology will be
7 integrated in with our four-year plan of
8 reform.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Right. I
10 guess my concern here is that it doesn't cost
11 the state more money or more time. If it's
12 something that's going to be for the
13 convenience of the outside companies, that's
14 fine, as long as it meshes with your system,
15 your project, your people. That's all I'm
16 saying.
17 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: And it
18 does.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. All
20 right.
21 Director Hoare, I've got a couple of
22 questions here. First of all, you know,
23 speeding, we're talking about speeding. And
24 I want to pick piggyback on what
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1 Senator Kennedy was saying as far as the work
2 zone cameras are concerned and how good they
3 are.
4 What about just speeding cameras?
5 Because what I'm seeing -- and what I said to
6 the DOT earlier, is that there is, as far as
7 I can see, a proliferation of lawlessness, so
8 to speak. People speeding, disregarding the
9 rules of the road, the laws of the road
10 completely.
11 Is there any thought of speed cameras
12 on the Thruway?
13 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: There's
14 not. And we -- certainly anecdotally we have
15 seen that over the last two years. It seems
16 to be another symptom of COVID in terms of
17 driving behavior. And successful, with your
18 legislation, at least in the work zone
19 slowing people down. But we have no present
20 plans right now to add additional speed
21 cameras to the Thruway system.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. Well,
23 that's something I'd like to look at.
24 Talking about EV needs into the
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1 future, I just find it very hard to
2 believe -- I'm not saying you're wrong,
3 because I don't have anything to go on
4 either. But the number, 130 or something EV
5 charging stations on the Thruway, like that's
6 going to be enough. I think even you said in
7 your testimony that in 10 years you're going
8 to need 320. That doesn't seem enough to me.
9 But again, maybe I'm just plain wrong.
10 The one thing, though, that I have
11 been talking to people about are the EV needs
12 for medium and heavy-duty traffic, okay, on
13 the Thruway. And not only the amounts of EVs
14 that you have, but how that electricity is
15 going to be distributed to your sites to take
16 care of those heavy-duty vehicles. It's --
17 from what I'm being told, it's astronomical
18 in terms of money and time to produce maybe
19 not what's on your site, but what's going to
20 get the electricity to your site.
21 Are there any conversations going on
22 right now with the Thruway and the electrical
23 distribution people, okay?
24 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Yes. We
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1 are in those conversations. You identified
2 what makes it so complicated. There are so
3 many pieces to this. The utilities have said
4 to us that putting these -- providing the
5 power to do these EV chargers is like
6 servicing a small city. So there are
7 challenges ahead. We are in those
8 discussions.
9 Part of the federal grant, as we apply
10 for federal grants with our DOT partners,
11 they are part -- "they" being the utilities
12 are a big part of the discussion as well.
13 And right now less than 1 percent of
14 registered vehicles in New York are electric
15 vehicles. So when I say we have the
16 resources right now to provide those
17 services, we do.
18 But we recognize -- we're not sitting
19 back. We recognize that those needs are
20 going to go up. I mean, it's a complicated
21 problem. It's something that's being
22 addressed nationally. Every day, if you look
23 in the business papers or the newspapers,
24 there's stories about EV manufacturers,
386
1 electric battery manufacturers. So it's
2 something that we are working very hard. And
3 I'm fortunate to have a lot of smart people
4 that work for us at the Thruway who give a
5 lot of thought to this, to plan and to be
6 ready for the future.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: I'm just
8 thinking, if this is going to happen within
9 the next 10 years that this is starting to
10 ramp up, are we putting together some
11 consortium of companies, distribution people,
12 electric generating people, everybody
13 together in a room to get some kind of a plan
14 to really build this out?
15 I'm not seeing that anywhere. I'm
16 seeing everybody talking in silos. This is
17 going to be a problem, you're going to have a
18 problem. We all agree, there's problems
19 every step of the way. Are we putting
20 anything together at this point in time?
21 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Well,
22 again, I wouldn't call them problems, I'd
23 call them challenges. And I think there's a
24 recognition and an understanding that those
387
1 challenges are out there and we're going to
2 work on it.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: I call them
4 problems. Okay, thank you.
5 Senator Comrie.
6 SENATOR COMRIE: Good afternoon,
7 gentlemen. I'll start with Commissioner
8 Schroeder.
9 I appreciate everything that you're
10 doing with DMV. And I wanted to find out
11 specifically regarding the issues of the
12 Tollpayer Protection Act and how our citizens
13 that are caught because they have extensive
14 fines because they were not able to pay their
15 bill or did not realize that their credit
16 cards were no longer picking up the bill, how
17 they can have more accessibility to try to
18 get these issues resolved without dealing
19 with excessive fines and fees.
20 I know folks have been battling back
21 and forth about how this should be resolved,
22 and I understand there's only one person for
23 a region to try to resolve these complaints.
24 Is that true?
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1 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: So,
2 Senator, you're referring to the DLSR, the
3 driver license suspension form that all of
4 you implemented? And we have cleared
5 3.2 million New Yorkers so that they can
6 start going forward. And so their license is
7 no longer, you know, suspended so that they
8 can go forward. Is that what you're
9 referring to? Or are you referring to tolls?
10 SENATOR COMRIE: Tolls, primarily.
11 And also there's a secondary issue, so that
12 people can be able to continue to work or not
13 lose their job because they are not able to
14 get their licenses from the state.
15 Primarily tolls. You know, we have a
16 lot of constituents in all of our areas now
17 that wind up with thousands of dollars in
18 fines that they did not realize because there
19 was a gap between the bills or they didn't
20 see the weekly bill or the monthly bill
21 showing that they missed payment, because
22 their payment systems were changed and they
23 didn't realize it.
24 So we have a lot of constituents that
389
1 are struggling to try to keep up or to have
2 some resolution because they're not getting
3 any opportunity to have a real discussion
4 with someone to get a resolution.
5 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah.
6 So -- so thank you, Senator.
7 We, DMV, we are supporting the
8 Governor's vision by continuing to work with
9 our tolling authority partners to crack down
10 on motorists with defaced, obscured plates
11 and to suspend the registration of vehicles
12 that rack up unpaid tolls.
13 So we -- this is something that has
14 been reoccurring all day, starting with MTA,
15 Thruway Authority, DOT. This is something
16 for all of us to have to try to figure out.
17 And so we will continue to be a partner in
18 that. And quite frankly, as you know, since
19 the implementation of cashless tolls this has
20 become problematic more and more. And so
21 with more than 5 percent of plates going
22 unread, accounting for hundreds of millions
23 of dollars -- which is concerning to I know
24 this Legislature and to the agencies involved
390
1 in transportation -- we together need to
2 figure out how to do better. And DMV is
3 committed to being helpful.
4 SENATOR COMRIE: I'm separating the
5 scofflaws, because most of the people that
6 are hiding their plates or doing, as was said
7 earlier, James Bond-type tactics with their
8 plates, those are the people that have to be
9 prosecuted.
10 But we have a lot of constituents that
11 because of technical issues or payment
12 issues, they didn't pay for a month. They
13 have their plates. It's not an issue of them
14 not being able to see the plate or being a
15 deliberate scofflaw. They've never been a
16 scofflaw in the system before, but they wind
17 up with thousands of dollars in fines and
18 fees.
19 I would hope that we could triple the
20 size of the integral folks that are working
21 to try to resolve these matters, so that they
22 can separate out the determined scofflaws
23 from the folks that are just caught in the
24 system. And I would hope that we increase
391
1 the size of that agency, or combine agencies
2 to make sure we have more responsiveness to
3 that area.
4 It's unfortunate that my office has to
5 call 15 times or send 20 emails to try to get
6 legitimate people resolved.
7 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah.
8 So, Senator, I understand exactly what you're
9 saying. There are bad guys out there doing
10 things that we have to figure out a way to
11 prevent.
12 But what you're talking about are good
13 constituents and good customers, and they get
14 themselves in a situation. And when they
15 call us, we do not do this (pointing in
16 different directions). We will do our best
17 to help the customer and we will try to
18 figure out what pathway for them to go down
19 so that they can avoid any suspension
20 whatsoever.
21 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
22 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: You're
23 welcome.
24 SENATOR COMRIE: And just the next
392
1 question. We've done a very successful
2 program. We're creating opportunities for
3 small businesses to act as mini-DMV
4 facilities. They have a few of them now that
5 are all over the city. Can you tell us how
6 effective that program has been?
7 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: What
8 program, Senator, are you speaking of?
9 SENATOR COMRIE: Where you're allowing
10 small businesses to act as DMV, the way you
11 can go to -- instead of going to the big
12 offices, go to the little businesses that are
13 set up to handle plates and re-registration.
14 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yup.
15 Yeah. Thank you.
16 So what we're trying to do -- and in
17 the testimony I talked about how DMV is
18 trying to reach people where they are. So we
19 have our offices, our brick and mortar, in
20 Queens. We have, you know, 12 offices
21 altogether in New York City. And we have
22 seven offices in Long Island/Westchester.
23 But we also have relationships with auto
24 dealers, like over 300 auto dollars across
393
1 the state. And so when you go in to buy a
2 new car, you are able to get everything that
3 you would -- that you used to have to go to
4 DMV, you can do it at the auto dealer.
5 The same thing that I'm so proud of I
6 mentioned in my testimony with the 43 prisons
7 across New York State, we are giving people
8 who are there, incarcerated, an opportunity
9 to get a license so they don't -- or if they
10 get a non-driver I.D. so that they don't have
11 to go to a brick-and-mortar place.
12 So we're going to continue, Senator,
13 to do that to make it easier for your
14 constituents and for New Yorkers overall.
15 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
16 A question for Executive Director
17 Hoare. Have you been able to look at the
18 contract for Greenway to see if there's any
19 way to have them ameliorate stations that
20 need to have -- need to be larger? Because a
21 lot of these stations do not have the proper
22 capacity to deal with especially weekend
23 travel.
24 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Senator,
394
1 you mean the service areas?
2 SENATOR COMRIE: The service areas.
3 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: The
4 service areas -- there are three sizes for
5 service areas. And those three sizes were
6 determined based on, again, data as far as --
7 SENATOR COMRIE: Right. But as you
8 look at what's happening in those service
9 areas, it's clear that they're overcrowded
10 and they don't have enough capacity,
11 especially in the stalls, the bathroom stalls
12 in those areas, depending on the size,
13 there's only four in places where there used
14 to be 12, and there's only six in places
15 where there used to be 18.
16 So will those adjustments be analyzed
17 and assessed? And as I've asked you before,
18 can the contract with Apple -- Apple --
19 Applegreen, or whatever they're calling
20 themselves, you know, be amended to ensure
21 that those adjustments can be made so we can
22 have faster flow in these rest stops?
23 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Well,
24 Senator, we're seeing faster flow and less
395
1 crowding as each one opens up. It's like
2 relieving the pressure on a valve. The -- we
3 had initial complaints and concerns about
4 overcrowding when there were only three or
5 four open. We're now up to 13, soon to be
6 16. And we're seeing less and less crowding.
7 But if we went back at this point
8 where 13 are already completed, another 10
9 are under construction as we -- already under
10 construction as we speak, if we stopped it
11 right now we'd be talking about a minimal
12 amount out of the 27. And it would be a
13 great expense to go back and get them to
14 change those plans.
15 SENATOR COMRIE: I would argue that it
16 would give us actually more revenue if we had
17 a faster and more compliant area to make sure
18 that people could be able to not be crowded
19 as they're moving between the vendors and the
20 rest stops. So I think there would be a real
21 opportunity to try to make sure that the
22 customer is taken care of in a way that they
23 would want to come through and not just go
24 through every rest stop, but wait 20 minutes
396
1 to use the bathroom.
2 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Senator,
3 that is our focus, safety and comfort for our
4 traveling public, and we will continue to
5 focus on that.
6 I think I can add to that. I'd be
7 happy to look at it and have a discussion.
8 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
9 And also in 2021 the vendor complaint,
10 did that get resolved yet, the blind vendors?
11 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: That was
12 resolved with an agreement last April between
13 the commission and the operator of the
14 service areas. They will have access to more
15 of the vending machines.
16 SENATOR COMRIE: Are you exploring
17 hydrogen fuel cell stations at the rest stops
18 as well? Because that is the new technology
19 that's coming on board.
20 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: That is
21 not a technology I'm specifically familiar
22 with.
23 We are constantly looking at
24 technology and upgrading to make sure that,
397
1 again, we serve our patrons and do it in a
2 responsible and environmentally friendly way.
3 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
4 And are the EVs going to have
5 canopies, the EV stations are going to have
6 canopies? Or are they going to be open to
7 the weather?
8 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: I'm
9 sorry, sir, I didn't --
10 SENATOR COMRIE: Right now the gas
11 stations have canopies so that if it rains,
12 you're not -- are the EV stations going to
13 have canopies?
14 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: The
15 service areas at the -- those gas stations
16 have canopies.
17 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
19 Thank you.
20 All right. Chair Ken Zebrowski for
21 10.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Thanks,
23 Mr. Magnarelli.
24 Good evening, colleagues. Good to see
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1 two former Assembly alumni here.
2 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
3 you.
4 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Thank
5 you.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: No offense to
7 you, Commissioner Schroeder, but my committee
8 really oversees the authority, so I'll start
9 with him. If I have any time, I'll ask you a
10 couple of questions.
11 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: That
12 makes sense.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Director
14 Hoare, thanks for -- you really covered a lot
15 in your summary. So I'm going to go through
16 a few things where I saw some -- maybe some
17 gaps that I have some questions about.
18 You talked a lot about the capital
19 plan and some of the projects. I didn't hear
20 anything specifically about like the pavement
21 conditions on the Thruway, like where is that
22 type of stuff in the capital plan, how do you
23 generally plan that, what do you currently
24 look at in terms of those conditions?
399
1 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Again,
2 it's -- we look at data that's based on state
3 and federal regulations. We assess the
4 entire system -- again, it's 2800 miles of
5 roadway in both directions, the lanes. So in
6 terms of what our priorities are and how we
7 address a particular project in 2024 versus
8 2025 or '26 is based on those needs. So that
9 we get to where we need to get.
10 But I assure you that as it currently
11 sits, the Thruway from your district to the
12 Pennsylvania line is safe and reliable.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: We heard a lot
14 about tolling. I think mentioned -- we had
15 the MTA earlier, a lot of folks hear from
16 constituents. Your office and my office have
17 worked on specific constituent matters, and I
18 appreciate the thoroughness by which your
19 staff attempts to answer our questions and
20 work through these matters.
21 I didn't hear you today kind of go
22 through some of the changes you've made,
23 which I think are helpful for folks to know,
24 in that the tolling and the fine program, if
400
1 I understand it correctly, as complaints have
2 been levied, you've made significant changes
3 in how those fines are levied.
4 Could you kind of go through that for
5 us?
6 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Sure. I
7 mean, it's also important to recognize that
8 in the last three years we've had 1.2 billion
9 transactions on the system. So where there
10 have been problems or issues, we address it
11 aggressively and we want to make sure that
12 our patrons, our customers are taken care of.
13 In terms of we have -- at least
14 whether or not we assess those fines, we
15 lowered the initial set of fines from -- to a
16 maximum of $50 a bill, so a maximum of $600 a
17 year. In previous years the policies and
18 regulations called for fines and penalties
19 based on each trip, so you saw huge numbers,
20 you know, come out for some folks.
21 But we've lowered that. We have an
22 office, created an office, my predecessor
23 created an office that's dedicated to toll
24 revenue and quality management of that
401
1 system. We are constantly in touch. We have
2 a tollpayer advocate that in the last two
3 years has talked to over 7,000 folks in an
4 effort to resolve their issues. And we're in
5 constant touch with people in an effort to
6 resolve their bills.
7 So we're working hard to balance the
8 fairness to those who pay the tolls with
9 fairness to those who may need some help.
10 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Thank you. I
11 think we do all have these stories of
12 constituents in our office with, you know,
13 eye-popping tolls and fines and fees.
14 So with those changes, like you said,
15 now it could be a maximum of $600 a year --
16 not that anyone would be happy with $600, but
17 theoretically that would be not paying the
18 $50 every month for the 12 months.
19 Theoretically, that should result in there
20 not being these multi-thousand-dollar bills,
21 correct?
22 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: It
23 should.
24 And again, 96 percent of our
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1 tollpayers pay their tolls. That 4 percent
2 is largely comprised of out-of-state
3 commercial vehicles. And that's a problem.
4 It's a problem not only for us, it's a
5 nationwide problem. We're part of an
6 international tolling association, and that's
7 what we, I and my staff, hear from our
8 counterparts in every other state on the
9 attempt to collect.
10 And again, it's mostly on, you know,
11 commercial vehicles who are intentionally
12 doing it. And our biggest numbers come from
13 Connecticut and New Jersey, who we don't have
14 a reciprocal agreement with. Connecticut
15 won't enter into a reciprocal agreement
16 because they don't charge tolls, so they want
17 to do it for their residents, and New Jersey
18 can only do it by legislation, and that's
19 been bogged down over the last couple of
20 years.
21 So our partner at Port has been
22 leading that in an effort, but so far they
23 have not instituted a reciprocal program.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: With the
403
1 cashless tolling, have you done an
2 analysis -- obviously, cashless tolling does
3 two things. One is sort of efficiency and
4 helps with traffic. That's probably the
5 biggest, you know, benefit to it.
6 But have you done an analysis of just
7 the financial aspects of it? You obviously
8 save money by not having the infrastructure
9 and the people working there. But obviously
10 it seems to lead to more scofflaws, if you
11 will. You know, you mentioned the
12 out-of-state truck drivers. So have you done
13 an analysis of that?
14 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: We've
15 looked at that. It wasn't done to save
16 money, it was done for the safety and
17 convenience of our patrons. And it was done
18 to help the environment, which we've seen
19 direct results on that.
20 So we still have expenses with the
21 cashless tolling. Those expenses will be
22 there. So because those booths and the
23 people in them went away doesn't mean that
24 the expenses went away. We still have -- it
404
1 still costs money to process transactions, to
2 send out bills, to work with our customers.
3 Again, we're up to about 86 percent of
4 New Yorkers having an E-ZPass. We're
5 constantly pushing that because that --
6 having an E-ZPass not only eliminates
7 problems or reduces the risk of problems, it
8 also reduces your bill. So we're working
9 hard to get to that system where more folks
10 have E-ZPass.
11 On the other hand, for those that
12 don't want an E-ZPass, we've worked hard with
13 them to provide easy ability to pay that by
14 cash or credit card. We have over 4,000
15 retail vendors across the state that you can
16 walk in and, again, pay your bill or refresh
17 your card, your account, with a credit card
18 or with cash.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: To that point,
20 you had closed some over the years, right?
21 Do you have more now than you had, say, four
22 or five years ago of those locations? I know
23 in Rockland in particular at one point it was
24 closed. Are you utilizing the county clerks
405
1 still? Not the DMV county clerks, but other
2 county clerks to serve as E-ZPass stations?
3 You know, what do you look at when you look
4 at statewide to try to make sure that
5 everybody has a place that they can go to
6 that's in a reasonable driving distance?
7 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Well,
8 we're looking at gas stations, we're looking
9 at Dollar General, we're looking at
10 Walgreens, Walmart, that sort of thing.
11 So --
12 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: Is there an
13 interactive map people can go on? If they go
14 onto your website, can they like put in their
15 zip code and see where a place is?
16 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Yes.
17 They can map and they get that information.
18 And there's customer service numbers if they
19 had a question of where to go on that.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: All right.
21 Lastly, because I don't want to go over my
22 time, let's talk about the Mario Cuomo
23 Bridge. The toll was increased 50 cents
24 annually starting in 2024 and ending in 2027.
406
1 Could you kind of talk about your overall
2 financial picture with that bridge, the debt
3 service, the maintenance costs, what do you
4 see that 50 percent increase -- how is it
5 going to help you pay for that? And are you
6 already projecting what might be necessary
7 after 2027?
8 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: I'll
9 take the latter first. We've projected --
10 the increases that went into effect on
11 January 1st were based on projecting out for
12 eight to 10 years.
13 We're seeing -- again, that money,
14 those increases, as I said earlier, are
15 rolled right back into -- it's allowed us to
16 spend between $90 million and $100 million
17 more in capital programs. You'll see that in
18 Rockland and Orange, you'll see that in
19 Westchester.
20 So the bridge costs money to maintain
21 and operate. And there's yearly -- biannual
22 requirements by the federal government to
23 inspect every bridge in the state. So just
24 on the Cuomo Bridge, one span is inspected
407
1 every two years. So every year we're going
2 through an inspection. That costs money.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: How much debt
4 is remaining on that bridge, do you know?
5 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Our
6 current debt service is $3.6 million -- I'm
7 sorry, $364 million, which is a 2.5 percent
8 increase in -- from last year. Again,
9 reflective of general economic conditions.
10 I don't happen to know specifically
11 related to the bridge. We can get that to
12 you.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN ZEBROWSKI: My time has
14 expired. Thank you.
15 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: You're
16 welcome.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
18 much.
19 Next we have Senator Mattera, ranker,
20 for five minutes.
21 SENATOR MATTERA: Great. And thank
22 you, Chair.
23 And this question will be for -- and
24 thank you both for coming here today. This
408
1 is for our Commissioner Schroeder.
2 The question is since the legalization
3 of cannabis it is not uncommon to see and
4 smell cannabis being used as people are
5 driving around. Last year when you were
6 here, we were told that the DMV was taking
7 steps, in conjunction with law enforcement,
8 to address drugged driving. Yet it's still
9 common to encounter drivers using cannabis
10 while driving. What additional steps has the
11 DMV taken to address this drugged driving?
12 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Senator,
13 thank you for your question. And I do recall
14 talking to you about this last year.
15 And the fact is this is, as you know,
16 a very serious matter; 44 percent of fatal
17 crashes in New York State are alcohol- or
18 drug-related. And so we continue -- and I'm
19 also the chair of the Governor's Traffic
20 Safety Committee. As chair, I have a
21 relationship and we have a relationship with
22 all law enforcement across New York State.
23 Also, we administer the program -- the
24 drug recognition experts. We have nearly 500
409
1 of them that we have trained. It is intense,
2 Senator. I know you know it's an intense
3 training for our officers across the state.
4 I liken it to taking three parts of a CPA
5 exam or sitting for the bar.
6 And so we are very happy to have men
7 and women across New York State who are
8 officers who are our DRE experts. We also
9 have what is called an ARIDE program. This
10 is training that we've been able to do with
11 over 800 officers across the state.
12 So I understand your question. We
13 continue to work with law enforcement and the
14 Governor's Traffic Safety Committee to make
15 sure we're doing the best we can to keep our
16 streets and our highways safe.
17 SENATOR MATTERA: So when do you think
18 we would have an answer that this is going to
19 be enforced, enforceable? And if anybody was
20 to be arrested, is this -- well, you probably
21 have nothing to do with the cashless bail
22 situation.
23 But my question again is, when do you
24 think that this will be coming, moving
410
1 forward? Do you have any idea? Is it going
2 to be a year from now, two years from now,
3 three years from now? This needs to be done
4 like yesterday.
5 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah.
6 So, Senator, just restate exactly what you're
7 asking me. Because our involvement in GTSC
8 and DMV is to -- many things. To work with
9 law enforcement across the state in terms of
10 impaired driving. To me, it doesn't matter
11 if it's drinking or drugs. It's bad, it's
12 impaired, and we need to do something about
13 it. And the best thing that we can do is
14 part of the training program, and that's what
15 DMV and GTSC does.
16 Is there something in particular that
17 you're asking me to answer?
18 SENATOR MATTERA: Well, again, I just
19 want to see if there's a time frame. That's
20 my -- I understand we're working on it, but
21 last year -- I mean, I know you're being
22 aggressive. This needs to be done, again,
23 like yesterday. This is out of control.
24 We're all driving home, going down the
411
1 Thruways, our roadways, all over the place,
2 and that's all you do is you smell it. I
3 smell it on -- going across our bridges. It
4 is -- it's just out of control.
5 Everybody knows how I feel about this
6 cannabis law. It's a total disaster. And
7 this is something that really needs to be
8 fixed because we have, you know, reasons why
9 we have our law enforcement to do their jobs,
10 and they can't even do their jobs. And we
11 put cannabis laws into effect, and it was
12 just something that I'm very upset about. I
13 go to tree-lighting ceremonies, and you smell
14 it all over the place. But the roadways are
15 infested with cannabis drivers. It needs to
16 be focused on -- this is something that needs
17 to be a top priority with the DMV and with
18 all the law enforcement.
19 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Senator,
20 I agree. And it's a top priority for us, and
21 we'll continue to do our best.
22 SENATOR MATTERA: Please. I would
23 appreciate it. So would all New Yorkers
24 also.
412
1 So this is actually a question for
2 Acting Executive Director Hoare. I would
3 appreciate -- you know, I'm going up the
4 Thruway, which I appreciate the Thruway.
5 Thank you so much for the work that both you
6 gentlemen are doing. But, you know, being in
7 construction, I'm seeing in these new -- in
8 the new stop -- you know, the rest areas.
9 And I was just wondering about the Thruway
10 Authority didn't require the contract to
11 install EV charging stations at some of our
12 plazas. And, you know, they're finished.
13 Why wouldn't we do that as we're doing
14 the construction, as somebody that's in
15 construction?
16 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Well,
17 they are part of the construction.
18 They're -- the buildings themselves and the
19 footprint are being addressed first. Again,
20 I think we talked about some of the -- it
21 takes a little longer because there's
22 permitting issues involved, there's issues
23 with -- or discussions with the utilities
24 that make -- that take a little longer. So
413
1 they're opening up, and then there's a lag.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
3 Director.
4 SENATOR MATTERA: Thank you.
5 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Thank
6 you.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Next we're
8 going to call upon our Ranking Member Ra.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Thank you, Chair.
10 Commissioner, Acting Director, good to
11 see you guys again.
12 Commissioner Schroeder, I have a
13 question but I do want to, you know, echo
14 what you said at the end. I really think
15 you've done a tremendous job of taking
16 something that for generations had this, you
17 know, public perception of being tedious at
18 best to visit a location.
19 And I certainly, in my personal
20 experience, I've done all kinds of
21 transactions. We have that new location in
22 my district, and it's been smooth and, like
23 was said, in and out in 15 minutes. And I've
24 been very happy.
414
1 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
2 you. Thank you.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: So kudos to you and
4 your entire staff for the work that you've
5 done.
6 I wanted to ask about -- I know the
7 Legislature has taken some actions fairly
8 recently to try to be another avenue to
9 curtail catalytic converter theft, and I'm
10 just wondering how enforcement's going in
11 terms of those new requirements that are out
12 there with keeping track of these parts and
13 certainly how the partnership with
14 law enforcement is with regard to that.
15 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah.
16 Thank you, Assemblymember. And I credit the
17 Governor for really being strong on this.
18 She initiated an Auto Theft Safety Program.
19 But DMV, quite frankly, we got started
20 on this early because we were aware of it.
21 We were aware of it because of our contacts.
22 Through GTSC we have law enforcement
23 contacts. And in New York City we kind of
24 got a heads-up on this and we began to do the
415
1 best we can. And then the Governor initiated
2 the law that the Legislature went through.
3 So, so far it is something that is
4 working. We want to make sure that the most
5 innocent, like our seniors, when they get up
6 in the morning, they go out to their car and
7 the catalytic converter is gone because the
8 bad guys want to cash in on it, that is
9 unacceptable to us. It's unacceptable to the
10 Legislature. And we will continue to work
11 with especially the auto dealers across
12 New York State to make sure that the law
13 written by -- every word written in that law
14 is adhered to.
15 And we have a relationship with all of
16 the six {sic} auto dealers across New York
17 State. We will continue to work with them on
18 that issue. So -- and thank you.
19 And the nice things you said about the
20 DMV, I will extend that to my colleagues back
21 in the DMV. Thank you.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Please do.
23 And as you may know, shortly before we
24 passed that law on the state level,
416
1 Nassau County did something similar requiring
2 registration. And, you know, as you know,
3 this is all about hopefully curtailing that
4 market as one of, you know, the many things
5 we need to be doing. Because it's -- it
6 really is a tremendous problem.
7 As you said, you have somebody,
8 especially somebody on a fixed income, and
9 they wake up and a part that expensive is
10 suddenly missing from their vehicle, it
11 really is a -- and frankly I think there's
12 also, right, when somebody's impacted by a
13 crime that somebody went into their own
14 driveway or in front of their house and
15 committed a crime, I think that just, you
16 know, shakes the public safety of a
17 community.
18 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Agreed.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: So thank you. Thank
20 you for your work.
21 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: You're
22 welcome. Thank you.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Acting Director,
24 just -- Mr. Zebrowski did start to get into
417
1 this with regard to cashless tolling. And I
2 know we've curtailed some of those problems
3 we had early on. But, you know, where are we
4 at this point? Do we feel it's working the
5 way it was supposed to work? And has any,
6 you know, savings been realized by the agency
7 as a result of this now being fully rolled
8 out?
9 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Yes, I
10 think it's working. We have 1.2 billion
11 transactions over the last three years. With
12 some issues that have come up, we've been
13 addressing them. Again, the point wasn't to
14 save money, the point was to modernize for
15 the purposes of giving greater safety and
16 convenience to our customers and patrons.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN RA: Okay. Thank you.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you. Next
19 we have Senator Tom O'Mara, ranker.
20 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you, Senator.
21 Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you
22 for being here.
23 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Good
24 afternoon, Senator.
418
1 SENATOR O'MARA: Commissioner, first
2 and foremost, thank you for opening the
3 office on the concourse. Very convenient.
4 I've actually used it a couple of times
5 already, so it's nice to have it there.
6 With regards to electric vehicles --
7 and obviously we're getting more and more of
8 them, and we're going to have this transition
9 to electric buses all over the place. Are
10 there any changes coming, in the works, for
11 vehicle safety inspections that will be
12 different for EVs as opposed to regular
13 combustion engines?
14 Obviously you're not going to have the
15 emissions requirement. But are there going
16 to be any safety inspections with regards to
17 the batteries? Because there's a really big
18 concern out there about the safety and the
19 fires that we've seen with these batteries.
20 And is there going to be an inspection of
21 these batteries for that type of safety
22 concern?
23 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Senator,
24 thank you for the question. And quite
419
1 frankly, what -- DMV and our inspection
2 stations have been very aware, obviously, of
3 the electric vehicle. And so our folks at
4 DMV have been trained in terms of what to
5 look for and what's most important.
6 So we continue to do that and will do
7 that as EVs progress in terms of more being
8 sold.
9 SENATOR O'MARA: Is there a particular
10 criteria or checklist that the inspectors go
11 through? With regards to the batteries and,
12 you know, them combusting.
13 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah,
14 there is. I went to a seminar that was
15 conducted by DMV, and all of our inspectors
16 were there. And so there is quite a full
17 informational section that they go through.
18 I don't -- I don't know exactly what it all
19 is, but I do know that we go through it. And
20 I'd be happy to share it with you as well.
21 Also, Senator, you'd be interested in
22 this. We are working also with 11 SUNY
23 colleges, mostly in upstate, and these SUNY
24 colleges have an automotive mechanic program.
420
1 And so we at DMV, we help in training the
2 trainer for everything that needs to be
3 recognized in terms of being, you know,
4 equipped to service EVs. So we will continue
5 that as well.
6 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you.
7 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: You're
8 welcome.
9 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you. Executive
10 Director, on the Thruway a couple of issues
11 that have been -- that I've been looking at.
12 One, a 70-mile-an-hour speed limit on the
13 Thruway, do you have a position on that?
14 It's come up around other states.
15 Maybe get a little more -- smaller range of
16 speeds on the Thruway? Because there's, you
17 know, a lot of vehicles going faster than 65,
18 and that speed differential is what is the
19 cause of many, many accidents.
20 So not just -- you know, obviously I'm
21 interested in raising it to 70, with vehicle
22 safety that we have these days. But the
23 minimum speed has to be enforced too, I
24 think, to avoid those things.
421
1 Also, the other issue is the exit
2 signs, an effort to change the exit sign to
3 the mile marker like many states do, so you
4 actually know that if you're going to --
5 you're at Exit 60 and you're going to Exit
6 120, you're 60 miles away. Not if you're
7 going from Exit 18 to Exit 19, it could be
8 three or it could be 15 miles, you don't
9 know.
10 So those two issues, any thoughts on
11 those?
12 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: I do not
13 have a position on increasing the speed
14 limit. That's a discussion I'll leave to the
15 Legislature and the Governor.
16 In regards to the mile markers, we
17 have looked at -- we are looking at that.
18 It's complicated because of the fact that in
19 our system we go from -- once you hit Albany,
20 87 continues to work up to the Adirondacks
21 and the Northway. So there are issues with
22 that. We've had some discussions with
23 Federal Highways. They would also be
24 involved in that.
422
1 SENATOR O'MARA: I think they have a
2 preference towards that. I think -- I've
3 read that the Federal Highway Traffic Safety
4 has a preference for the mile marker exit
5 numbers.
6 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: They
7 have not expressed that to me.
8 SENATOR O'MARA: Okay. Thank you.
9 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Thank
10 you.
11 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
12 Assembly.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Is Member
14 Simone here? (Off the record.) Okay, he
15 left.
16 Member Shimsky?
17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Thank you.
18 And to Commissioner Schroeder,
19 everything everybody said is true. I used to
20 work for the state 15 years ago. We never
21 see complaints anymore, which is really
22 exciting.
23 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
24 you.
423
1 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: I just have
2 two quick rookie questions.
3 As part of your metrics, do you keep
4 track of average wait times?
5 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yes, we
6 do, Assemblymember. We do, and it is
7 decreasing. And so it's now under
8 15 minutes. And with the ability for us to
9 continue with transactions online, that also
10 gives people just a particular reason to why
11 they would go into a DMV.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Do you break
13 it down in terms of location and type of
14 transaction as well?
15 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: We do.
16 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Okay, great.
17 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Not only
18 do we do it for the 27 district offices that
19 we run, DMV, but we also have that data for
20 the 51 county clerks in upstate, and we know
21 what their record of accomplishment is, and
22 they're doing a very good job as well.
23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Okay. And
24 with the federal waiver on the commercial
424
1 driver's road test, what are we eliminating,
2 and are we sure it's not a problem
3 eliminating it?
4 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah. So
5 at the Governor's urging of the federal
6 government, it is what is called "under the
7 hood."
8 So when a bus driver is taking a test,
9 the bus driver doesn't ever pull up the hood.
10 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Gotcha.
11 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: So that
12 is being eliminated in the test.
13 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Okay, great.
14 Thank you.
15 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: It's not
16 eliminated -- the Governor and the DMV has
17 asked for a waiver.
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Okay, great.
19 And now to Director Hoare. First of
20 all, I've been getting complaints about the
21 condition of the bike and pedestrian path on
22 the Cuomo Bridge. Just putting it out there
23 for you.
24 The second thing I have on this is,
425
1 you know, user fees for a road, it's called.
2 The old turnpike system has quite the
3 history. There may be places where it's not
4 quite as appropriate as it used to be. Do
5 you see yourself seeking more, for example,
6 federal funding and that to supplement your
7 purse in the long run?
8 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: We have
9 not -- never received any federal funds. We
10 are, as you point out, a user fee system. We
11 rely on those tolls to operate the Thruway.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Well, as I
13 said, things -- things change. And it's like
14 property taxes are a hard way to fund a
15 school in the local government now. I
16 suspect that this is true with this.
17 But you did say you did get some
18 federal funding for some limited projects
19 this year.
20 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: We were
21 very fortunate for the first time in our
22 history to get three federal grants.
23 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Keep it up.
24 Thank you.
426
1 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Thank
2 you.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
4 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
5 I think last for the Senate,
6 Senator Roxanne Persaud.
7 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you.
8 Thank you, Commissioner. And thank
9 you, Executive Director.
10 Commissioner, it's great always seeing
11 you. And I'm looking forward to us having
12 the conversation in reference to legislation
13 I've been putting forward about --
14 commonsense legislation about stops on the
15 road, things people need to know. And I'm
16 really looking forward to us doing that so
17 that we can make our road stops safer.
18 I want to ask you about the DMV mobile
19 offices. Some county clerks have them. Is
20 there a way for the state to have some mobile
21 offices? And how does a community get a
22 mobile office?
23 And then also the -- there was a
24 question someone asked us about the DMV, the
427
1 data that you're collecting. Are you sharing
2 that data with anyone? Other than, you know,
3 the government office.
4 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: So the
5 mobile office, I was part of the celebration
6 of Orange County when the county clerk in
7 Orange County, she actually went after and
8 received a grant to underwrite that expense.
9 So at DMV that would be a very costly
10 thing to do, because there's 62 counties. So
11 we encourage counties who are able to do that
12 to do that.
13 But meanwhile, Senator, you know what
14 we're trying to do, is we're reaching out to
15 your constituents where they are. And that
16 is one of the reasons why we're proud to have
17 77 transactions that your constituents can do
18 online so that they don't have to go into an
19 office.
20 And could you just repeat what -- the
21 last question?
22 SENATOR PERSAUD: The data, the
23 collection of data. Are you sharing that
24 data with anyone outside of the --
428
1 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah. So
2 the answer, the short answer is -- is yes.
3 And the reason why we do -- and I'll be very
4 clear on what we share. Public Officer Law
5 requires these records to be open and
6 available. But we are very particular when
7 DMV shares any of this information.
8 So when -- we sell data for very
9 specific purposes like vehicle warranty
10 notifications and insurance ratings. But all
11 of the data sales sharing this information is
12 monitored and it's within compliance of what
13 the Legislature has set and the federal
14 Driver Privacy Protection Act.
15 And so any user that uses the
16 information specifically that I told you that
17 we sell, the user must attest to proper usage
18 when accessing -- when assessing any system,
19 and activity is monitored. And DMV also
20 audits that.
21 SENATOR PERSAUD: Thank you. Thank
22 you both.
23 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: You're
24 welcome.
429
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Okay. Member
2 Palmesano.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Thank you.
4 My question is for Commissioner
5 Schroeder.
6 It's good to see you again. I want to
7 commend you on the work DMV is doing to
8 really help and promote organ donation. It's
9 an issue very near and dear to my heart.
10 It's something we're really advocating for
11 here in the state. So I want to commend you
12 for the work on that front.
13 And I like your lapel pin, too, by the
14 way.
15 But my question for you, Commissioner,
16 is we know that in -- it's kind of a spinoff
17 of Senator O'Mara's question about electric
18 vehicles. We know that electric vehicles
19 weigh 10 to 30 percent more, they're heavier
20 than normal gas and diesel-powered vehicles.
21 And weight of a vehicle takes its toll on the
22 road. For example, a Ford Lightning weighs
23 6500 pounds and a Ford F150, 4700 pounds.
24 Knowing that, and knowing the impact
430
1 it has on the road, would the department be
2 willing to impose a higher registration fee
3 for EVs, since these types of vehicles do not
4 pay gas taxes? And then the revenues from
5 such fees could be deposited in the Dedicated
6 Highway and Bridge Trust Fund in order to
7 offset annual costs associated with highway
8 and bridge maintenance.
9 Shouldn't that be something that
10 should be looked at? Is that something
11 you're looking into? Could it be done?
12 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah.
13 So, Assemblymember, as you know, being a
14 former member of the Assembly I would expect
15 the Assembly and the Senate to come up with
16 these types of ideas. These would be
17 legislative ideas, and then DMV would do
18 everything that we could to make sure that we
19 adhered to what the law is and what the
20 intent is.
21 And so DMV and all of the units that I
22 have, over 62 units, and I have deputy
23 commissioners who are very adroit, very --
24 specialists in many things, we would be
431
1 willing to look at anything and everything
2 that the Legislature sends over to us. So
3 thank you for that.
4 And thank you for the kind words on
5 Donate Life, and thank you for your
6 participation. Wherever you or I go for
7 Donate Life, I see you.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Well, thank
9 you, I appreciate that. It's a personal
10 issue for me, so I appreciate your
11 leadership.
12 On that front, too, I know you talked
13 about the success the DMV has had with --
14 through the licenses and now the
15 registrations. And I kind of wanted to ask
16 you, if I had time -- and I seem to do, it
17 doesn't always work out that way -- but
18 anything new or interesting or you're working
19 on with the DMV to help partner with --
20 whether it's with local DMVs or any other
21 agencies to help encourage or promote organ
22 donations so we can continue to drive up
23 those registration numbers to improve our
24 status in the country?
432
1 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah.
2 The answer is yes. And I would be very happy
3 offline to share it with you. But I'll just
4 give you some quick highlights.
5 We have a comprehensive plan for 2024.
6 And the bottom line is I'm very aware that
7 Colorado has 62 percent of its residents who
8 are enrolled on a registry. New York is way
9 low, they're like 47 percent. And so we will
10 do something, we are doing something about
11 it. We take it very seriously. And we need
12 all the help of the county clerks and our
13 offices across New York State, and we're
14 getting it.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Thank you,
16 Commissioner.
17 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: You're
18 welcome.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
20 Member Bores.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: Thank you for
22 being here.
23 Commissioner Schroeder, you mentioned
24 in your testimony e-bikes. The New York City
433
1 mayor today announced a new city agency to
2 regulate commercial e-bikes. Did he consult
3 with you or the GTSC before that?
4 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah, so
5 in my testimony, Assemblymember, that's
6 exactly what I've said. And so -- but as you
7 know --
8 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: I'm sorry, the
9 question is did the mayor consult with you
10 before launching the new city agency today to
11 regulate commercial e-bikes?
12 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: We work
13 with the mayor's New York Vision team, and
14 I've been working with them since I've been
15 the commissioner.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: That doesn't quite
17 answer the question.
18 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Okay,
19 let's try to get --
20 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: Did he consult you
21 on the new city agency regulating commercial
22 e-bikes? Did he talk to you about that
23 before today announcing it in the State of
24 the City?
434
1 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah,
2 I -- the last time I've had a conversation
3 with the mayor is when he was in the
4 Legislature.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: Got it, thank you.
6 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Okay?
7 You're welcome.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: So you also
9 mentioned the traffic safety effort that
10 you're undertaking, and specific attention
11 was paid to pedestrians, bikes and
12 micro-mobility. Obviously the MV-104 doesn't
13 have a way to differentiate between e-bikes
14 and bikes or between mopeds and larger
15 motorcycles. So what data did you look at in
16 doing that initiative?
17 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah.
18 So -- so we are aware of what DMV can and
19 cannot do. So as you pointed out correctly,
20 e-bikes and similar devices are not
21 registered by New York State, where mopeds
22 are. And so we have a role there.
23 Our role in e-bikes is really to work
24 with the other entities and the law
435
1 enforcement and also with our partners,
2 especially in New York City. And as the
3 chair of the Governor's Traffic Safety
4 Committee, I have been to New York City quite
5 a few times over the summer trying to put
6 together safety programs and also campaigns,
7 media campaigns --
8 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: Sorry, just
9 because of limited time.
10 Specifically, the question is what
11 data do you look at in terms of e-bike
12 accidents or moped accidents, et cetera,
13 since it's not tracked in the MV-104?
14 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: So we get
15 information through the Governor's Traffic
16 Safety Committee. And that is the data that
17 we look at.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: Okay, wonderful.
19 And then lastly, you actually have a
20 tremendous record moving things online with
21 the DMV.
22 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
23 you.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: Most government IT
436
1 modernization programs fail because they go
2 through the waterfall process and they're too
3 big and they're too large and they don't
4 involve any changes in process, and they
5 spend more in consultants than on coders.
6 What are you going to do differently
7 to make sure this succeeds?
8 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah, my
9 compliments to you, because that's exactly
10 right. And DMV has failed over the course of
11 time. But we will not fail now because we
12 are now embarking on a four-year plan of
13 where we're implementing it. And because of
14 the Legislature and the Governor, you have
15 put in the money to underwrite the
16 transformation and the tech redesign. We
17 will not fail.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN BORES: Thank you.
19 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: You're
20 welcome.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Senate.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
23 I'm just going to jump in even though
24 I said the Senate was done, because my dear
437
1 friend Alex Bores just triggered questions I
2 realized I must ask -- thank you.
3 We overlap in districts, and we're
4 very concerned about the abuse by electronic
5 vehicles some of the time, but actually just
6 vehicles that are supposed to be licensed and
7 regulated by DMV -- mopeds that we know for a
8 fact that there are thousands and thousands
9 of these mopeds under state law having to be
10 registered and state license plates and
11 driver's licenses, and none of the above is
12 happening. And it's a real problem because
13 they are violating the law seemingly with no
14 penalties.
15 So I'd really love to know what we can
16 do to work with you to make sure that the
17 existing laws are followed as we continue to
18 have a growing set of problems with them.
19 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah,
20 thank you, Senator.
21 And so many times we really rely on
22 law enforcement for the law enforcement end
23 of this. And this is the reason why DMV and
24 GTSC has spent so much time -- and I spent a
438
1 lot of time in New York City this summer --
2 trying to figure out a way to combat this.
3 And we will work with other entities, other
4 law enforcement agencies, the Legislature,
5 the City of New York, to figure out a way to
6 do better. But we're a part of it.
7 And we don't do this (gesturing in two
8 directions). You know, we don't manage it
9 because e-bikes in particular, you know,
10 aren't registered through New York State, but
11 mopeds are. And so therefore we have a
12 responsibility to work with our partners, and
13 we will continue to do that.
14 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
15 And I don't actually have an answer.
16 It's really a question, but I -- it's not a
17 trick question. I have been told by many of
18 the people doing car inspections in New York
19 City that it's only $36 or $38 that they can
20 charge, that it takes up a lot of time, and
21 that we should really go to once every two
22 years or once every X number of years,
23 particularly with newer cars, because none of
24 those things we're inspecting for are
439
1 actually a problem when a car is relatively
2 new or of the kind of cars that are now being
3 built.
4 Do you know if that's the right
5 answer? Should we go to less frequent
6 inspections?
7 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah.
8 Senator, I don't -- I don't know if that's
9 the right answer. But we are seeking the
10 right answer. We are doing this right now.
11 We've just introduced a new program for
12 inspection stations called NYVIP 3. I will
13 not bore you with all the details of it.
14 But within that installation, we also
15 are now looking at everything, including the
16 amount and the fee that an inspection station
17 gets. We are looking at all of it. And we
18 will continue, and then we will communicate
19 with the Executive and with the Legislature.
20 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And maybe I'm
21 very conscious of it; I think I'm the only
22 legislative district in the state -- well,
23 maybe Alex Bores also -- there's no gas
24 station at all. You have to go to someone
440
1 else's district. And you also have a little
2 more trouble finding an inspection station.
3 But that's not the question.
4 Actually, the next question is
5 actually for the Thruway Authority. Thank
6 you.
7 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Okay,
8 thanks, Senator.
9 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And I don't know
10 if this is true, but I was told that the
11 charge meter at Exit 23 isn't working, so
12 every time I get on and off when I come
13 upstate I'm actually not getting charged. Is
14 that true?
15 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: That's
16 not -- that's not correct. And I've had that
17 conversation with some of your colleagues on
18 that.
19 There was a glitch in terms of a lag
20 in payment for some folks who have come
21 through Exit 23, but we are collecting -- we
22 are collecting from Exit 23.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: So even though
24 we've moved now to an aut -- you don't even
441
1 know that you're going through, but you
2 are -- the money is flowing as you would have
3 hoped to flow from this new system without
4 toll takers and tollbooths?
5 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Yes, it
6 is.
7 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
8 Thank you.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member Otis.
10 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you.
11 Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you,
12 Director. First, I want to compliment both
13 of you in your agencies, not just on behalf
14 of my office but everybody else, how great
15 both of your agencies are in dealing with the
16 individual constituent complaints and issues
17 that come up. Both very responsive. Your
18 teams are great. So thank you.
19 PANELISTS: Thank you.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: For Commissioner
21 Schroeder, for DMV -- I'm not going to ask
22 you to respond to this, but something that I
23 think if we could get something post this
24 hearing, more detail about the digital
442
1 driver's license process, the technology
2 behind that, and to understand that better,
3 that would be a great thing for everybody.
4 So thank you for that, and we'll --
5 that will be shared.
6 And then Frank, nice to see you.
7 Thank you for all the great Thruway Authority
8 stuff.
9 One thing that a few people -- Bill
10 Magnarelli, Bill had mentioned and
11 Tim Kennedy had mentioned about the
12 EV charging. And so I think, first of all, I
13 was very pleased to see in your testimony
14 that the EV charging rollout has actually
15 been expanded over what it was a few years
16 ago. So the Thruway Authority and your
17 contractor have sort of responded to the
18 increasing demand.
19 There was an article in the paper a
20 couple of weeks ago about the auto
21 manufacturers are having concerns about
22 people buying electric vehicles because of
23 the lack of EV charging out there in the
24 world enough.
443
1 And so given the growth that you've
2 projected, curious with your contract with
3 your Applecore {sic} group, what is the
4 ability, if you see six months from now that
5 we want to ramp up more robustly in terms of
6 EV charging, what's your ability to go beyond
7 the numbers that are in your testimony if the
8 Thruway Authority desires that?
9 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: The
10 agreement, Assemblyman, that we have with the
11 operator is expressly that they must keep up
12 with demand. So as demand increases, they
13 will add additional EV charging sites.
14 Again, they want to do it. This is
15 not a battle. They make money off of this,
16 so -- but they are ready. We've recognized
17 that need, and they are going to be ready and
18 willing and able to accomplish that.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: That's great to
20 hear.
21 The other thing, with my 30 seconds
22 that are left, is I don't know where the
23 Thruway Authority is on this, but it's a
24 question that periodically comes up in
444
1 electricity requirements for EV charging,
2 other things that are there. Are you
3 continuing to look at expanding
4 Thruway-right-of-way solar as part of the
5 solution for energy supply for these
6 locations?
7 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Yes,
8 we've worked with our partners at NYSERDA and
9 NYPA to explore those possibilities. We have
10 a couple of sites that we have solar.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
12 Director.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you.
14 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Thank
15 you.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member Simon.
17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Success. Thank
18 you. And thank you, Chair Magnarelli.
19 So, Commissioner -- I want to say,
20 Mr. Hoare, I'm probably the only person who
21 doesn't get complaints about getting tickets
22 for not having an E-ZPass. So I'm letting
23 you off the hook.
24 But I wanted to, first of all,
445
1 thank you for your responsiveness and your
2 staff's responsiveness to some of the sort of
3 wacky issues I've brought to your attention.
4 But -- and also I recently wrote in
5 support of the proposed changes that you were
6 making with regard to consistently dangerous
7 drivers, but also suggested a couple of
8 alternatives, one of which is we have so many
9 alcohol-related deaths -- there were over
10 7,000 alcohol-related crashes last year, with
11 335 deaths, I believe, and a 30 percent
12 overall increase in alcohol-related
13 fatalities since 2019 -- and suggested that
14 we need to lower the blood alcohol content
15 from .08 to .05 when we know we have
16 cognitive and psychomotor impacts at that
17 level. Because that only will then make it
18 worse if somebody's using some other
19 substance which is harder to detect.
20 And also the idea of ignition
21 interlock devices, which for those people who
22 have been found to have driven drunk but who
23 keep getting on the road and are persistently
24 dangerous drivers from alcohol, working on
446
1 ignition interlock devices, which will keep
2 people away from -- the car won't start.
3 Can you tell me what work you're doing
4 on those two areas?
5 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: I will.
6 So thank you, Assemblymember. And thanks for
7 all of your help. And you've been helping
8 our office over the last little bit, and we
9 look forward to continuing to work with you.
10 But as I mentioned earlier, impaired
11 driving, 44 percent of fatal crashes in
12 New York State are alcohol- or drug-related.
13 To the Governor's credit, the Governor
14 in the State of the State and within the
15 budgets has put in information to keep those
16 dangerous drivers off the road. And we
17 continue to need the Legislature's help to
18 continue to do that. Most of my work with
19 the Governor's Traffic Safety Committee has
20 to do with that.
21 And so we will continue to work with
22 the -- our partners across the state and also
23 law enforcement and the drug recognition
24 experts are very, very helpful in having them
447
1 statewide to be able to detect those who are
2 impaired, either by alcohol or by drugs. So
3 we will continue to work hard.
4 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Yes. But, you
5 know, the drug substances are a little bit
6 more fluid now in terms of what we know and
7 how much we know and who's impaired with what
8 substance at what level.
9 And that's one of the reasons why I
10 think it really makes sense to really focus
11 to alcohol, which we know a lot more about.
12 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Agreed.
13 And I remember, Assemblymember, you brought
14 this up last year in terms of Utah has a
15 0.05.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
17 Commissioner.
18 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: I do know
19 that there's legislation pending, and that's
20 a legislative matter, and DMV would be very
21 interested in working with the Legislature in
22 whatever you come up with.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
24 Commissioner.
448
1 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
2 you.
3 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON: Thank you,
4 Commissioner.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
6 Mitaynes, please.
7 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: Thank you.
8 My question is to the DMV
9 Commissioner.
10 What is the DMV doing to ensure that
11 people who are unaware of their obligation to
12 submit a vision test for a license obtained
13 during the pandemic are not fined or
14 otherwise punished?
15 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Could you
16 repeat the beginning of that, Assemblymember?
17 I'm sorry.
18 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: That's okay.
19 What is DMV doing to ensure that
20 people who were unaware of their obligation
21 to submit a vision test for a license
22 obtained during the pandemic are not fined or
23 otherwise punished?
24 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: So what
449
1 we are doing, Assemblymember -- and thank you
2 for the question. It's the first time this
3 has come up.
4 There were probably 500,000 people who
5 did not have to take the vision test because
6 it was during COVID. But we did make the
7 stipulation that they would have to do it
8 thereafter. And so we are now down to only
9 7 percent with possible license suspension.
10 That's about 40,000.
11 But we are continuing to communicate
12 with all New Yorkers. And if any of your
13 constituents are involved with this, we will
14 call them to tell them what the easy steps
15 are to be able to do the vision registry.
16 They could do it at a DMV office. They could
17 do it at a supermarket. They could do it at
18 a drugstore. Wherever we have a registered
19 vendor, and we have them all over New York
20 State.
21 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: Thank you.
22 Legislation like the Crash Victims
23 Bill of Rights would provide crash survivors
24 and their loved ones a voice at DMV
450
1 administrative hearings. Do you support
2 policies that establish procedures for
3 individuals' next of kin, for persons killed
4 in a crash, to present victim impact
5 statements at DMV fatality review hearings?
6 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Yeah.
7 So, Assemblymember, the question that you
8 just gave to me I've heard before. Because
9 we work with groups, especially across
10 New York City, who are very involved in this
11 matter.
12 Specifically what you're talking about
13 would -- are legislative matters. But we
14 communicate on a quarterly basis with groups
15 who have this concern, and we try to do the
16 best we can, especially for pedestrian safety
17 and, in this particular case, in New York
18 City.
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: I just have a
20 follow-up.
21 Do you support extending these
22 hearings to individuals who have been
23 seriously injured in crashes?
24 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: What's
451
1 the beginning of that?
2 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: If you
3 support extending these hearings to
4 individuals who have been seriously injured
5 in crashes.
6 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: So again,
7 Assemblymember, I would prefer to take this
8 offline. I don't completely understand the
9 question. I don't want to answer it quickly.
10 But we will take a look at it, and we will
11 get back to you.
12 ASSEMBLYWOMAN MITAYNES: I appreciate
13 it.
14 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: You're
15 welcome. Thank you.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Yes, okay.
17 Member Jacobson, please.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Thank you,
19 Mr. Chairman.
20 Good to see both of you again.
21 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
22 you.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: I happen to
24 have the good fortune of using some of the
452
1 new technology from the DMV when I purchased
2 a car. And another thing that happens is
3 when the release of lien is filed, then it's
4 on record almost automatically. There's no
5 wait. And they have the plates and
6 everything, and it was quite amazing.
7 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
8 you.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: And I'm always
10 harping on who's ever there to make sure the
11 job is being done. But when things are done
12 right, I want to follow up, and that's with
13 the director. So good job on the Thruway,
14 particularly in my area, because that's so
15 busy between Exit 17 and Route 84 with all
16 the trucks going all the time.
17 I would hope that you can do those
18 busy areas more often and not wait till the
19 end or something. And I realize you got a
20 lot of funding at one point, but just to keep
21 up on that as it goes along.
22 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Will do.
23 Thank you, Assemblyman.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: And as I
453
1 mentioned here earlier, there still is a bad
2 spot just a little south of New Paltz going
3 north, and a little bit north of New Paltz
4 going north, so it's -- but it's so much
5 better.
6 Concerning your electric charging
7 stations, it's good to see. I think you've
8 got to have six -- a minimum six or eight in
9 one area so we don't have knife fights when
10 these things become popular. Are these
11 Level 3? That's the fastest one, that you
12 can get it done in a half-hour.
13 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Yes, the
14 new ones that are going in at the service
15 areas are Level 3.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Good. That's
17 good. Because sometimes NYSERDA with the
18 grants they give out is for Level 2, and I
19 want to make sure they didn't sell you on
20 that. All right.
21 The other is there's still some
22 bathrooms missing on some of the rest areas.
23 So it would be nice if you could get the
24 portable bathrooms that they use in
454
1 construction sites and things like that.
2 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Are you
3 talking about at the service areas that are
4 under construction?
5 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: No, I said
6 construction sites get portable toilets and
7 bathrooms. Right? So I don't see why we
8 couldn't get those on -- at the rest areas
9 where we need them.
10 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: The ones
11 that are open and functioning, to supplement
12 the number of bathrooms available?
13 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: Yeah, they
14 function. I mean, you just want to get them
15 because therefore -- you know, because you're
16 not done yet with some of the spots.
17 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Yes,
18 we'll look at that.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: I think it
20 would be a very simple, cost-effective
21 solution. And it might save us all in time
22 of emergencies.
23 (Laughter.)
24 ASSEMBLYMAN JACOBSON: That's it.
455
1 Thank you.
2 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Thank
3 you.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
5 Member Manktelow.
6 ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW: Thank you,
7 Chair, and Director. Just a couple of
8 questions in regards to the Thruway.
9 Out in my district I have some first
10 responders that go to MVAs on the Thruway.
11 They're small voluntary fire departments, and
12 it's my understanding they get the bill from
13 the Thruway Authority for that call.
14 Is there something that we can do to
15 simplify that so our first responders don't
16 even have to deal with that? Because in a
17 rural area with small fire departments it
18 seems to be an issue. Just something I'm
19 asking you to look into, if it's not already
20 being done.
21 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: I will
22 look at that. I haven't really gotten those
23 complaints. They've gone online. It's a
24 fairly simple, straightforward way to go
456
1 online and get that reimbursement.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW: That's what I
3 thought too, as well, but that doesn't seem
4 to be the case, at least -- we've worked with
5 a couple of them several times, so maybe
6 we'll be in contact with you.
7 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: I will
8 look into it and get back to you.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW: Okay, thank
10 you.
11 Second question, Director. Speed
12 camera tickets. Of course I'm getting quite
13 a few calls, as many of us are. And it's my
14 understanding that when the individual gets
15 the ticket, they have to pay the ticket, it's
16 my understanding that the company that's
17 actually getting the money back is actually
18 out of state. Is that correct?
19 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Our
20 vendor is here -- has a presence in New York.
21 I'm not sure where they are. Well, their
22 headquarters is, but they're -- they're here
23 in New York and working with us on this speed
24 camera program.
457
1 ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW: All right.
2 Because some of my constituents are saying,
3 you know, why are we sending this money to a
4 company that's out of state and not doing it
5 to a company that's in state? And I just
6 wanted an answer to give to them.
7 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Well, I
8 guess the simplest answer is it was done to a
9 public RFP, and they responded and won in an
10 open, transparent process.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW: So I'm
12 assuming they're the lowest bid, then,
13 correct?
14 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Lowest
15 is not the only element of it, or criteria.
16 But they gave the best -- the best value
17 deal, is presumably how they got picked.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW: And my last
19 question. Talking to some of our local
20 highway guys back home, you know, with the
21 movement of going to electric vehicles, what
22 percentage of the Thruway fleet is now
23 electrified, or electric vehicles?
24 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: A small
458
1 portion. I don't have that number exactly,
2 but it's a small portion of our passenger
3 vehicles are electric.
4 We, you know, continue, as we buy new
5 ones -- we try and go through the life of the
6 existing vehicle. So we're looking at that.
7 It's on the books. And looking at some point
8 to go to the heavier-duty vehicles as well.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW: So are there
10 any commercial-sized vehicles, snow plow
11 trucks, that are electric vehicles now?
12 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Not at
13 this time. My understanding is that that
14 technology does not exist as we sit here.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN MANKTELOW: Okay. Thank
16 you both for your time.
17 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Thanks.
18 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Good to
19 see you, Assemblymember.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
21 Commissioner and Director. We appreciate
22 your patience in answering all the questions.
23 Well done. Thank you. Thank you for being
24 here and for all of the employees that you
459
1 represent. We appreciate your work.
2 DMV COMMISSIONER SCHROEDER: Thank
3 you, Mr. Chair.
4 ACTING EXEC. DIRECTOR HOARE: Thank
5 you all very much.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Panel B.
8 This is the New York Public Transit
9 Association, Permanent Citizens Advisory
10 Committee to the MTA, Riders Alliance, and
11 Empire State Passengers Association. All one
12 panel.
13 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And for all
14 members who are still here, we are now past
15 the government representatives. Everybody
16 has a three-minute maximum, with no round
17 twos.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: No Round 2.
19 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: And the
20 testifiers also have a three-minute maximum.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Right.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
23 (Off the record.)
24 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Right. All
460
1 right. Members of the panel, each member of
2 the panel has a three-minute introduction,
3 okay? And we're trying to stay to it. I am
4 keeping all of the members and Senators on
5 board with that, so we're going to keep you
6 on board with it too.
7 So who would like to begin? Go right
8 ahead.
9 MR. MORRELL: Thank you for your
10 support of public transportation and giving
11 NYPTA the opportunity to testify today.
12 I am James Morrell, president of NYPTA
13 and director of public transit for NYPTA in
14 Buffalo, New York. Earlier today you heard
15 from MTA, and we support their priorities. I
16 will address the needs of transit systems in
17 upstate New York and in the downstate
18 suburbs.
19 The mobility provided by public
20 transit is essential to economic activity
21 across New York State. Our communities are
22 asking for more services, expanded
23 frequencies, and new mobility choices like
24 on-demand service. Over the prior two years,
461
1 state aid to non-MTA transit has grown by
2 15 percent. This is an endorsement of the
3 critical role that transit plays in
4 supporting the economy, environment, social
5 equity, and affordable housing.
6 At the same time, the cost to operate
7 transit service is rising as inflation
8 pressures operate on capital budgets. We
9 thank Governor Hochul for recognizing the
10 importance of public transportation in her
11 Executive Budget. Operating aid to upstate
12 transit will grow by 5.4 percent, and
13 5.6 percent for downstate.
14 Adding to the Governor's proposal to
15 maintain the 15 percent annual growth in
16 state aid will provide funding predictability
17 essential to delivering the quality services
18 our communities need. With more resources,
19 transit can increase bus frequencies, extend
20 and expand service and coverage, introduce
21 bus rapid transit, and add on-demand services
22 where needed.
23 In Buffalo we would increase service
24 levels on many of our heavily used buses and
462
1 continue our effort to serve employment
2 opportunities. Upstate transit faces a
3 further hurdle in being reliant on state
4 general funds, comprising nearly 50 percent
5 of upstate transit aid in the Executive
6 Budget.
7 Our systems need and deserve
8 dedicated, sustainable revenues to provide
9 essential services and support the state
10 initiatives. Fixing upstate funding requires
11 dedicated revenues to replace or supplement
12 the current underperforming sources and
13 adequately fund transit in the future.
14 In 2022, the Governor and the
15 Legislature approved a five-year capital plan
16 for non-MTA transit funding at $159 million
17 per year. The Executive Budget reduces this
18 amount to 139 million by eliminating the past
19 appropriation to NFTA for modernizing our
20 rail infrastructure.
21 NFTA recommends continuing this
22 $159 million appropriation and addressing
23 additional member agency capital needs such
24 as the NFTA and reappropriating their
463
1 five-year capital program.
2 Thank you.
3 MS. DAGLIAN: I've been watching for
4 hours. I should know this by know, right?
5 (Laughter.)
6 MS. DAGLIAN: Hi, good evening. I'm
7 Lisa Daglian. I'm the executive director of
8 the Permanent Citizens Advisory Committee to
9 the MTA, PCAC, created by the Legislature in
10 1981. Thank you.
11 PCAC represents riders on the MTA's
12 Long Island Rail Road, Metro-North Railroad,
13 and New York City subways, buses, and the
14 Staten Island Railway.
15 Our role is to advocate on behalf of
16 riders and advise the MTA on operational
17 performance and capital projects through
18 policy recommendations and reports. Thank
19 you very much for holding this hearing today.
20 On behalf of the millions of people
21 who use the system, thank you for everything
22 you do and did last year to fully fund the
23 MTA's operating budget like the essential
24 service that it is, going even further and
464
1 increasing service. And we thank our
2 colleagues in advocacy here, particularly
3 Riders Alliance, for all the work that they
4 did to move the needle on that.
5 And we're pleased that the Governor
6 continues to likewise show her understanding
7 of the vital importance of transit to riders
8 as an economic driver to the region.
9 There's still a lot of work to be done
10 to make transit more reliable, safe,
11 equitable, and affordable for riders. We
12 have several proposals that we've shared with
13 your office and that we're happy to discuss
14 with you in more detail. We look forward to
15 working with you this budget season to
16 advance more fare discounts and options so
17 that transit isn't cost-prohibitive for any
18 rider and opens up opportunities for
19 education, jobs, leisure travel,
20 entertainment, and all the region has to
21 offer.
22 Affordability is key for all
23 New Yorkers, and that's why it's crucial to
24 expand fare discounts and options around the
465
1 MTA system. We support the proposal to
2 forgive a rider's fare evasion summons if
3 they enroll in Fair Fares, but that doesn't
4 translate at the moment to the Long Island
5 Rail Road and Metro-North, because Fair Fares
6 doesn't exist on the commuter railroads. And
7 we think it's time to change that.
8 Low-income New Yorkers should be able to
9 afford to ride the rail infrastructure that
10 runs through their backyards and also to be
11 afforded the same opportunities as people who
12 ride the subways.
13 We'd like to see a CityTicket weekly
14 offered, with available transfers to subways
15 and buses, to fill the void from the
16 elimination of Atlantic Ticket Weekly. We've
17 asked the MTA to initiate a field study this
18 year to assess its feasibility.
19 We're also calling for extending the
20 senior and disabled Medicare 50 percent fare
21 discounts to the morning peak on the
22 Long Island Railroad and Metro-North,
23 currently the only time when this discount
24 doesn't apply. It's time to send a clear
466
1 message that New York values these groups'
2 contributions to the workforce and our
3 communities.
4 We also strongly support the Rider
5 Representation Act, which would provide
6 voting seats on the MTA Board for its rider
7 representatives, currently the only members
8 on the board required to ride transit. We'd
9 also add a new member with disabilities,
10 recommended by the Mayor's Office for People
11 with Disabilities with input from the
12 respective disability organizations.
13 Congestion pricing. We spoke a lot
14 about that, and we'd love to talk more about
15 it, but my time is up. Thank you.
16 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you so
17 much.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
19 I've got to push hard too. Riders
20 Alliance.
21 MR. PEARLSTEIN: Good afternoon.
22 My name is Danny Pearlstein. I'm the
23 policy and communications director at the
24 Riders Alliance. We are a grassroots
467
1 organization in New York City of subway and
2 bus riders fighting for better public
3 transit. And thanks to you all in
4 significant part, we have a pretty good
5 record.
6 New York, as Lisa was describing, is
7 uniquely positioned post-pandemic to have a
8 thriving public transit system, and that is
9 due to the good work you put in place both
10 before the pandemic -- not being able to see
11 what would happen with congestion pricing --
12 but also last year, you know, with new
13 sustained funding to replace some of that
14 fare revenue lost due to work-from-home
15 primarily. So we are immensely grateful.
16 We are spending a lot of our time and
17 energy right now organizing to improve what
18 is unfortunately still the slowest bus
19 service in the nation. You know, obviously
20 we have heavily congested streets.
21 Congestion pricing will help with that. But
22 we need more and better priority for what is
23 also the largest bus-riding population in the
24 nation, the people in the five boroughs. So
468
1 we are working actively on that.
2 On congestion pricing, as you all
3 discussed with the chair earlier, there has
4 been widespread misinformation about the work
5 that's gone into preparation for the program.
6 And I just want to highlight that, you know,
7 the MTA spent more than two years preparing
8 more than 4,000 pages of environmental
9 studies of the program under the close
10 supervision of the United States government.
11 So the reason that opponents of the
12 program are able to point to particular
13 potential environmental impacts is in fact
14 because they have already been studied
15 exhaustively. Had we not known what they
16 were, they couldn't be pointing them out
17 today.
18 But I want to shift gears a little bit
19 and talk a little bit about some work that
20 we're now doing on the state level,
21 organizing with folks all across the state --
22 Buffalo, in Rochester and Syracuse, here in
23 Albany, as well as the Hudson Valley and
24 Westchester and Long Island -- in an emerging
469
1 coalition that we'll be introducing up here
2 in a couple of weeks called New Yorkers for
3 Transportation Equity. And our proximate
4 goal is to change the conversation around how
5 the State DOT operates.
6 New York obviously spends more money
7 than any other state on public transit, but
8 we could be doing better. And we could be
9 providing more options for more New Yorkers
10 in rural, suburban, and urban communities to
11 get around. Right?
12 And the DOT commissioner spoke
13 effectively to that when she was answering
14 Assemblymember Gallagher's question, that she
15 wants to create more opportunities to walk,
16 bike, and ride public transit. But as she
17 also said, in response to the same question,
18 the state is spending lots of money on
19 highway-widening still to this day, and that
20 includes in New York City, where the State of
21 New York is investing $5 billion to widen the
22 Van Wyck, the Bruckner, the Belt, and the
23 FDR Drive.
24 And so there is a lot that we could do
470
1 if we were able to reinvest those funds.
2 There's a lot more freedom and opportunity
3 and mobility that we could create all across
4 New York in all of our communities and, as
5 people discussed, in between our communities,
6 with better rail connections. And so we're
7 eager to discuss that with you all today.
8 Thank you.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
10 That was quick.
11 Empire State Passengers Association.
12 MR. STRAUSS: Good afternoon, Finance
13 Committee Chair Krueger, Transportation
14 Chairs Magnarelli and Kennedy, and members of
15 the legislative committees here today.
16 Thank you for the opportunity to
17 testify on the proposed budget for the
18 Department of Transportation. My name is
19 Steve Strauss, and I am the executive
20 director of the Empire State Passengers
21 Association. ESPA is a statewide advocacy
22 organization working on behalf of intercity
23 passenger-rail riders for more reliable, more
24 frequent, and faster Amtrak service in
471
1 New York.
2 Let me start my testimony with a
3 rhetorical question. How many of you knew
4 that the state had released an $8.8 billion
5 plan to improve intercity passenger-rail
6 service -- a plan that proposed spending
7 $350 million a year to rebuild the tracks
8 between Niagara Falls and New York City,
9 construct 370 miles of new track, reduce the
10 travel time between Buffalo and Albany by an
11 hour, and add four additional trains over the
12 next 25 years?
13 I'm guessing that few of you knew this
14 unless you had heard it from an ESPA-member
15 constituent, or maybe your staff had heard it
16 from me. That's part of the problem.
17 If you review the FY '25 Executive
18 Budget briefing book, you will not find much
19 mention of an expanded intercity
20 passenger-rail program. What you will find
21 is about $90 million of proposed spending on
22 passenger rail, nearly identical to prior
23 years. Amtrak will receive about 44 million
24 to pay for the cost of providing Amtrak
472
1 service in New York state. The remaining
2 45 million supports the Passenger and Freight
3 Rail Assistance Program, which funds capital
4 improvements to freight and passenger rail
5 service.
6 The administration's budget proposes a
7 10-person increase in full-time equivalents
8 for the department, but no increase in staff
9 for the Office of Passenger and Freight
10 Transportation. Without more resources, new
11 state hires, consultants, and capital funds,
12 DOT will not be able to get this rail
13 improvement program off the ground.
14 Even worse, this lack of resources
15 and, more importantly, lack of commitment
16 from senior-level staff puts us at risk of
17 continuing to fall short at winning our share
18 of discretionary funding from the
19 infrastructure bill.
20 Now let me pivot to a novel idea for
21 additional funding for the state's intercity
22 passenger-rail program. You may remember
23 that Governors Cuomo and Murphy announced a
24 handshake deal with the Biden administration
473
1 to pay for 50 percent of the gateway tunnels
2 and related infrastructure improvements.
3 Today, the federal funding of the
4 Gateway Project is now over 68 percent of the
5 projected costs. This means that New York
6 has a potential savings of about $1 billion
7 that it could reallocate to other intercity
8 passenger-rail improvements and perhaps
9 commuter rail.
10 Let's take that money and invest it in
11 projects to advance the Empire Corridor Rail
12 plan.
13 Thank you for allowing ESPA to testify
14 today. I would be happy to try and answer
15 any questions that members of the committee
16 might have.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Perfect
18 timing.
19 Do we have anyone?
20 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: We do.
21 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Go right
22 ahead.
23 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Oh, thank you.
24 Senator Kennedy, our Transportation
474
1 chair. Only three minutes, everyone.
2 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
3 First of all, thanks for all of your
4 testimony, your leadership over many years.
5 James, great to see you. You had
6 mentioned the NFTA. I want to give you
7 another opportunity to talk about the
8 importance there, about the five-year capital
9 plan. The ask is $150 million. Can you talk
10 about what that $150 million will be used for
11 with that five-year capital plan?
12 Also STOA. Obviously, it's important
13 to all of the public transit authorities. If
14 you could talk to it from your perspective.
15 And we'll start there --
16 MR. MORRELL: Sure.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: -- capital and STOA.
18 MR. MORRELL: Sure. Thank you,
19 Senator.
20 As you indicated, NFTA was
21 appropriated $100 million over five years.
22 That was gone before we even got it. We are
23 doing great things with that. We need
24 another five years -- as you indicated,
475
1 150 million.
2 Tunnel and fire protection needs to be
3 replaced. The panel liners is crumbling
4 within the station. We have to upgrade all
5 the elevators and escalators. There's not a
6 difference with an elevator and an escalator
7 in downstate and New York City than in
8 Buffalo.
9 We have a number of issues that we are
10 working on continuously in a state of good
11 repair that is needed to provide the level of
12 service that our community needs. So the
13 additional funding, along with the
14 159 million for all of non-MTA capital, would
15 continue to provide for the level of service
16 that we need.
17 And also, with the 150 million, it
18 would allow us to be able to have -- to
19 leverage the federal funds from FTA for new
20 projects.
21 SENATOR KENNEDY: And let me just
22 accent that real quick. We've got a minute
23 left. I want you to hit on the drain
24 financially that light rail is to the
476
1 operations of the system.
2 MR. MORRELL: Sure.
3 SENATOR KENNEDY: And the need for
4 more funding.
5 MR. MORRELL: Sure.
6 So for many years we've taken away our
7 operating resources to put into capital, and
8 that has not allowed us to extend service,
9 hire individuals. So providing 150 million
10 will do great things to modernize the system,
11 to be ready for expansion, but also hold
12 harmless the operating budget from STOA at
13 the 15 percent that's been generated over the
14 past two years.
15 SENATOR KENNEDY: And so 15 percent
16 operating, that's the ask. The Executive
17 Budget put in about 5.
18 MR. MORRELL: Yes.
19 SENATOR KENNEDY: Can you talk about
20 the need to bump that up by another
21 10 percent?
22 MR. MORRELL: Sure.
23 SENATOR KENNEDY: Statewide.
24 MR. MORRELL: So what it will do is it
477
1 will provide the opportunity for NFTA and
2 other upstate properties, as well as non --
3 the suburban areas in -- outside of New York
4 City -- to expand service, to provide
5 additional services where we're not going
6 currently.
7 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
9 sir.
10 Member Shimsky, please.
11 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Thank you so
12 much, all of you, for everything you do.
13 The one issue I wanted to bring up was
14 when we're talking about mass transit and how
15 to grow mass transit either in the suburbs or
16 even in the outer parts of the outer
17 boroughs, it's going to be time to come up
18 with a hybrid system, a combination of
19 fixed-route and other ride sharing, other
20 potential conveyances using some ride-share
21 principles. Because you're never going to
22 have enough fixed routes. That would be
23 prohibitively expensive, and you wouldn't
24 have enough people using them.
478
1 So I hope that as you're looking where
2 to advocate in future years, I hope we could
3 talk more about that.
4 MR. STRAUSS: Excuse me, are you
5 aware -- last year the Legislature
6 appropriated $5 million for, I believe, new
7 technologies and last-mile services. And
8 CDTA here in Albany has announced a new
9 program, they will have an on-demand shuttle
10 from the Rennsselaer Train Station to
11 Downtown Albany, and that is -- they were
12 hoping to get it into operation by next
13 month. I'm not sure what the start date is.
14 So --
15 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: So do --
16 are -- we have pilots on the ground already?
17 Excuse that bad pun.
18 (Laughter.)
19 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Do we have
20 pilots operational at this point?
21 MR. STRAUSS: Let's say that the CDTA
22 program is on track.
23 And three other upstate systems have
24 $1 million each, and then I think there's a
479
1 million dollars of discretionary money that
2 State DOT will make available to other
3 transit systems in the state. I believe
4 that's the way it's set up.
5 MS. DAGLIAN: In the MTA system, you
6 know, first-mile-last-mile is something
7 that's really critical, particularly because
8 it's very linear, it's very expensive, it's
9 very old. And in some places it's worked,
10 some places it hasn't worked as well to put
11 in on-demand service.
12 The MTA, to their credit, developed a
13 first-mile-last-mile toolkit that it worked
14 with local communities to shop around, to see
15 what would work, how would the local
16 communities make the best of what resources
17 they have. And it will help those
18 communities and municipalities apply for
19 grants that they're eligible for.
20 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Okay.
21 MS. DAGLIAN: So there is a lot of
22 work on the MTA level.
23 Now, we as the Permanent Citizens
24 Advisory Committee to the MTA have been very
480
1 involved in developing the bike/ped report
2 and recommendations that we put forward to
3 the MTA that they incorporated into their
4 report, into their recommendations. That's
5 not just for New York City, that's also for
6 the counties outside and for the systems
7 outside. Because it's -- you have to get
8 there and home.
9 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Yeah. Thank
10 you.
11 Do you think this all has a future?
12 Jump ball for everybody.
13 MS. DAGLIAN: It has to.
14 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Good question
15 to end on. Thank you. Thank you very much.
16 Thank you.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
18 Senator Comrie.
19 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
20 Lisa Daglian, thank you for being
21 here. Thank you all for being here today,
22 Danny as well.
23 Can you drill down into why you think
24 the Fair Fares program would make sense for
481
1 commuters?
2 MS. DAGLIAN: I'd be delighted to,
3 thank you.
4 So the Fair Fares program works on
5 city subways and buses, and it doesn't work,
6 we think, as well as it could because it
7 is -- it's good for -- for people who are
8 eligible, who make 120 percent of the federal
9 poverty level. We've been advocating with
10 our colleagues in advocacy for 200 percent of
11 the federal poverty level; that would allow
12 more people to access it.
13 But it's still for just subways and
14 buses. It means that people who have a
15 commuter rail -- that's Long Island Rail
16 Road, Metro-North -- running through their
17 backyard but can't afford the fare, can't --
18 you know, may have to ride two hours on
19 subways and buses in order to get to work or
20 to school.
21 So by cutting the fare in half for
22 them and enabling them access to opportunity
23 with a reduced fare, we think the city is
24 able to fund that with the Fair Fares funding
482
1 that they currently have, since it's not
2 currently utilized, which is also a shame.
3 SENATOR COMRIE: And can you elucidate
4 the Fair Fares program that you're talking
5 about to make sure that commuters can
6 understand or see that there's a clear and
7 concise program across the different
8 modalities to take the -- take either the
9 train or the subway that we discussed?
10 MS. DAGLIAN: Mm-hmm. So right now a
11 few are -- it's an income-eligible-based
12 system for subways and buses. If you are
13 making 120 percent of the federal poverty
14 level as an individual or family of four, you
15 can apply for Fair Fares and get a card that
16 allows you to ride on subways and buses at a
17 half-fare.
18 But you can't use that on subways and
19 buses because there's no parity on the
20 Long Island Rail Road -- I'm sorry, you can't
21 use that on the Long Island Rail Road and
22 Metro-North. There's no parity between the
23 systems. Which is a whole other conversation
24 on fare integration and rationalization that
483
1 we hope will come together.
2 But right now we think the time has
3 come for expanding Fair Fares to the
4 Long Island Rail Road and Metro-North within
5 the city, so that the city -- it makes sense
6 for the city to fund it.
7 SENATOR COMRIE: Can you also talk
8 about the creating of the program so that
9 each region would have its own clear fare
10 system so that people could understand, and
11 why you think that would increase ridership.
12 MS. DAGLIAN: I'm sorry. So that
13 the --
14 SENATOR COMRIE: Each region in the
15 MTA area to create a clear zone fare system
16 for --
17 MS. DAGLIAN: Oh, absolutely. Right
18 now it's a very legacy system on each of the
19 different railroads that is sort of -- if
20 they eliminate one zone, they just didn't
21 renumber it. So you can't tell -- it's not a
22 distance-based formula.
23 So we think that making it rational
24 makes sense so that people can understand
484
1 where they're going and how much they're
2 paying.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
4 SENATOR COMRIE: Thank you.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
6 Assembly.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: I don't see
8 anybody else, so I think we're finished.
9 You? Member Simon? No? Okay. We're all
10 set.
11 (Inaudible exchange; laughter.)
12 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: You're all
13 advocating. Very good. Thank you all very
14 much for your testimony. Thank you.
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
16 MS. DAGLIAN: Thank you.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Next we go to
18 Panel C: Associated General Contractors of
19 New York State; Construction Industry Council
20 of Westchester and Hudson Valley, Inc;
21 New York State Association of Town
22 Superintendents of Highways; Rebuild New York
23 Now.
24 And also, is the New York State County
485
1 Highway Superintendents Association here? If
2 you are, just raise your hand. Nobody
3 checked in. Oh, you are. Okay. So we've
4 got all five.
5 (Off the record.)
6 MR. SMITH: Good afternoon,
7 Senator Krueger, Assemblymember Weinstein,
8 and other members of the New York State
9 Legislature. I am Jeff Smith, highway
10 director for Tompkins County and the
11 president of the New York State County
12 Highway Superintendents Association.
13 As always, we appreciate the annual
14 opportunity to discuss the Executive Budget
15 proposal and report to you on the conditions
16 and needs of New York's local transportation
17 system.
18 First I'd like to begin by talking
19 about the BRIDGE NY program, which directs
20 federal and state funding to local bridge and
21 culvert projects throughout the state. In
22 all four rounds of BRIDGE NY thus far, the
23 number and value of project applications far
24 exceeded the funding available for each
486
1 region of the state. In 2022, only a little
2 more than half the bridge applications
3 received funding, and less than one-third of
4 the culvert applications secured an award.
5 And we expect the same to happen in the
6 current round as the applications are due
7 this week.
8 On Monday, the latest Graber Report
9 was released by the Department of
10 Transportation. According to the report,
11 over just the last three years, from 2020 to
12 '22, 1.25 million square feet of local-owned
13 bridge deck have moved from good/excellent to
14 fair/poor, and an additional 1.24 million
15 square feet of state-owned bridge deck became
16 deficient.
17 While the overall bridge deck decline
18 is huge, it is much worse as a percentage of
19 the entire local system since the state
20 maintains two-and-a-half times as many
21 square feet of bridge deck than local
22 governments. This comes as no surprise,
23 since during the same three-year period DOT
24 spending on state bridges was cut by over
487
1 350 million annually. From 2020 to '22,
2 New York spent an average of 1.2 billion
3 annually on its bridges. In the three years
4 before, 2017 to 2019, the state averaged
5 1.5 billion annually. Thus a 350 million
6 annual reduction in bridge spending.
7 While bridge spending was being
8 reduced, highway construction costs have
9 increased as a result of inflation by a
10 record 58 percent, according to FHWA.
11 BRIDGE NY is a great program, but more
12 needs to be done to protect these valuable
13 assets. My colleague Greg will be speaking
14 in more detail about our funding asks, but I
15 would like to mention our request to add
16 language to amend the Highway Law to increase
17 the CHIPS competitive bid threshold from
18 350,000 to 1 million. Increasing the CHIPS
19 bidding threshold to -- or eliminating the
20 threshold altogether will give municipalities
21 more flexibility to pursue the most
22 cost-effective option on behalf of the
23 taxpayers.
24 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
488
1 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: I'm sorry.
3 We have to keep our time limits to everybody.
4 Next, sir?
5 MR. HALLBERG: Good afternoon. I'm
6 Greg Hallberg, president of the New York
7 State Association of Town Superintendents of
8 Highways and highway superintendent for the
9 Town of Ellery in Chautauqua County.
10 As you know, between the county and
11 the town associations, our collective
12 membership and union workforce is responsible
13 for ensuring safe operation of 87 percent of
14 the state's public roads, half of its
15 bridges, and plowing not only our huge system
16 but over a quarter of the New York State
17 Department of Transportation's roads. This
18 massive local system consists of over
19 97,000 centerline miles of roadways and
20 8600 highway bridges.
21 Governor Kathy Hochul's Executive
22 Budget proposal continues the third year of
23 the 32.8 billion five-year investment plan
24 for the New York State Department of
489
1 Transportation and local road systems. As
2 Jeff mentioned, record high inflation rates
3 in highway construction materials have
4 severely increased the costs, and as a result
5 local governments are seeing a significant
6 reduction in the real dollar value of local
7 highway maintenance programs.
8 Unfortunately, the Governor's
9 Executive Budget is cutting CHIPS aid and the
10 lifeblood of local highway departments by
11 60 million and State Touring Route aid by
12 40 million, $100 million less than local road
13 funding as compared to last year. In
14 addition to this 100 million hit to these two
15 programs, the other local programs remain
16 flat.
17 It is critical that last year's
18 funding levels be restored and an additional
19 150 million be added to the 2024-'25 budget
20 for local highway programs like CHIPS and
21 Extreme Winter Recovery. This will allow us
22 to recoup some of our real funding loss in
23 the inflation since the five-year program was
24 adopted in '22.
490
1 In previous years, you, the members of
2 the Legislature, have responded to the dire
3 conditions of the state's transportation
4 system and argued for CHIPS and other local
5 transportation funding. But more is required
6 to reverse deteriorating conditions of our
7 local transportation systems and make
8 significant progress in its rehabilitation.
9 Funding shortages mean many local
10 governments' preventive pavement preservation
11 strategies to apply well-timed and targeted
12 maintenance treatments fall short of what is
13 necessary to avoid more costly major
14 rehabilitation and reconstruction down the
15 road.
16 Based on these conditions we discussed
17 above -- the rising costs -- we make the
18 following requests. Support increasing the
19 Executive Budget proposed level for CHIPS by
20 160 million. Support increasing the
21 Executive Budget proposal level of
22 Extreme Winter Recovery funding by
23 90 million. Support and maintain the other
24 vital local transportation funding programs
491
1 like Marchiselli, BRIDGE NY, PAVE-NY, State
2 Touring Routes, and the Pave Our Potholes.
3 As public servants ourselves, we
4 understand the difficulty in trying to meet
5 all of our constituents' needs and resources.
6 Thank you for your time.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
8 sir. Thank you.
9 Next?
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Press hard.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: There you go.
12 There you go.
13 MR. COONEY: Thank you, Walter.
14 Good evening, Chair Krueger,
15 Chair Magnarelli, and Chair Kennedy. Thank
16 you for the opportunity to contribute to this
17 important public hearing.
18 My name is John Cooney, Jr., and I
19 serve as the executive director of the
20 Construction Industry Council of Westchester
21 and Hudson Valley, Inc.
22 The CIC acts as a collective
23 bargaining agent for some 600 employers in
24 the heavy-highway contracting community as
492
1 well as hundreds of suppliers and builders
2 throughout the region aligned with New York
3 State DOT Region 8.
4 As advocates for the heavy-highway and
5 transportation infrastructure sector of
6 construction, CIC partners with some 30 union
7 locals of organized labor.
8 As I speak to you today, we are coming
9 close to the completion of the second full
10 year of the current five-year New York State
11 capital plan. The 32.8 billion five-year
12 capital plan represented a 2.8 billion
13 increase over the previous five years of
14 capital investment.
15 The present capital plan, at its
16 onset, provided for the approximately
17 4.1 billion of new funding for priority
18 projects such as the Van Wyck I-81 in
19 Kensington. The new funding was in a major
20 sense developed by a 2.8 billion increase in
21 funding combined with 1 billion cut from the
22 New York State DOT core program.
23 Despite the 2.8 billion increase in
24 spending over the present five-year plan to
493
1 date, conditions of roads and bridges across
2 the state have worsened. In reviewing over
3 10 years of data, New York State presently
4 has a record high 4,264 deficient bridges.
5 Pavements. In 2017, 25 percent of
6 New York State roads were in fair or poor
7 condition. In 2022, 42 percent of New York
8 State roads were in fair or poor condition.
9 The Hudson Valley, represented by New York
10 State Region 8 -- my home region -- has and
11 has had the worst road and bridge conditions
12 in New York State. All of this information
13 is derived from New York State DOT data.
14 Why, despite a 2.8 billion increase in
15 funding, are conditions worse? Since the
16 onset of the capital plan in 2021 through the
17 end of 2023, there has been a 21 percent cost
18 increase for highway construction, as noted
19 by the Federal Reserve. And then the
20 stripping of 1 billion out of that core
21 program has hampered -- has put a constraint
22 on all of the regions of New York State to
23 take care of their normal stock of roads and
24 bridges.
494
1 Without increased funding, the decline
2 in road and bridge conditions will continue
3 to decelerate and get worse. We at the
4 Construction Industry Council believe that at
5 least 400 million should be added to the
6 2024-'25 budget for core highway and then
7 150 million for CHIPS funding.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
9 sir.
10 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
12 Walter?
13 MR. PACHOLCZAK: Thank you. And thank
14 you, Chairs Krueger and Weinstein, for the
15 opportunity to testify today. Thank you to
16 the chairs, rankers, and members of the
17 committee.
18 First, I just wanted to say that AGC
19 commends the leadership of Governor Hochul,
20 DOT Commissioner Dominguez, Thruway Executive
21 Director Hoare, MTA Chair and President
22 Lieber. Thank you to all the dedicated
23 employees of the Executive Chamber, of the
24 Division of Budget, the state agencies and
495
1 authorities. They're our partners in
2 rebuilding New York.
3 But before I speak about the New York
4 State Department of Transportation capital
5 program, AGC would like to commend the
6 leadership of Governor Hochul and the
7 Legislature and all those involved to help
8 make work zone and workplace safety a
9 priority through initiatives like Operation
10 Hard Hat and the Work Zone Traffic Safety
11 Camera program. Safety is always a priority.
12 This is the third consecutive year
13 that AGC was afforded the opportunity to
14 testify at the Transportation budget hearing,
15 public hearing today. As we enter the third
16 year of this five-year, fully funded DOT
17 capital program, AGC has accurately
18 forecasted in '22, '23 and '24 that the
19 enacted funding levels and inflationary
20 pressures will result in declining road and
21 bridge conditions.
22 I think inflation -- here is something
23 that we all agree on -- erodes a capital
24 program that's essentially flat. So when
496
1 you're looking at this now, what we see over
2 the course of the five-year program is that
3 you're losing 20 percent. You might lose a
4 full year of the DOT capital program, which
5 is something that we all don't want to see.
6 It's important not only for jobs, for
7 economic development -- it helps really to
8 keep our state moving.
9 But, you know, looking back at 2022,
10 we're all excited: $4.6 billion coming in
11 from the federal government, it's going to
12 save the day. And at the end of the day,
13 though, we actually spent a little less on
14 the overall capital program compared to prior
15 years.
16 Last year we said the same thing. You
17 know, we're not -- inflation is eroding the
18 capital program, we're not keeping up, and
19 therefore you see declining road and bridge
20 conditions not only last year, but you'll see
21 it this year as well.
22 In reviewing the '24-'25 DOT capital
23 program, we see some similar declines in
24 conditions in the core and highway and bridge
497
1 investment there as well. I'm not going to
2 go through the data, because a lot of that is
3 in our testimony. I think we all share the
4 same data, for the most part; it's all from
5 the same source. But conditions continuously
6 decline when you're talking about a record
7 capital program.
8 So with 28 seconds left to go, a
9 couple of things we want. We want to see an
10 investment. In a letter signed by more than
11 40 organizations, including business, labor,
12 and local governments, and distributed to the
13 members of the committee, the coalition is
14 supporting an additional $400 million to the
15 DOT core capital program.
16 We're also supporting the County and
17 Town Highway Superintendents call for an
18 additional 250 million for our local roads
19 and bridges. You know, that's our bread and
20 butter for a lot of these guys here.
21 And thank you for your time.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
23 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
24 Fred, you're next.
498
1 MR. HIFFA: Hi. Good evening.
2 I first want to start off by thanking
3 everybody on behalf of Rebuild NY Now.
4 Because of your efforts, we finally have the
5 DOT putting out reporting requirements.
6 Ironically, the Graber Report, which tells us
7 about the bridge inspections, even though
8 it's in statute, was three years behind and
9 got released Sunday night, four days before
10 this hearing. So I wasn't able to include
11 that in my original testimony, but I want to
12 talk about it.
13 I also want to talk about the fact
14 that in 2001 you finally put in statute that
15 the pavement and bridge reports have to be
16 put in place by the DOT and reported to you
17 annually, because in 2020 they hadn't done a
18 report since 2015.
19 So when we look at the Graber Report,
20 what do we see? Two and a half million
21 square feet of bridge decking became
22 deficient in just the last three years.
23 That's the equivalent of 40 miles of bridges
24 becoming deficient in the past three years.
499
1 The other thing the report tells us is
2 it tells us where the money's being spent and
3 how much. Over the last three years,
4 spending on bridges has declined by an annual
5 amount of $350 million. So this 32.8 billion
6 program is delivering less than the previous
7 program. We've gone from spending about
8 1.1 billion a year on bridges to about 1.4.
9 That's why we're seeing these huge
10 declines. Right now we have -- one out of
11 four bridges is deficient in this state.
12 When we look at the pavements, we see the
13 same. We see four out of 10 miles are now
14 deficient on pavements. The overall numbers
15 are really staggering.
16 So how does the Governor look at, in
17 the proposed budget, of dealing with these
18 declining conditions? Eliminate the
19 $100 million that you folks added to the
20 local program. Keep the core funding
21 virtually flat -- it's a $4 million add. And
22 then she adds $500 million as it is called
23 for in the capital program for priority
24 projects.
500
1 That 500 million will never be spent
2 this fiscal year or next. When you look at
3 the first two years of the spend-out compared
4 to the plan on priority projects, they are
5 $1.3 billion behind in the first two years.
6 These are tough projects. I'm not
7 blaming someone. But to take that
8 500 million and put it -- when we've got
9 these declining conditions, and not take it
10 and put it into the core makes no sense.
11 The money is there, the appropriation
12 authority is there. We always see a lag.
13 You've got about a billion and a half dollars
14 of past programs for priority projects moved
15 into this capital program. A delay on these
16 complicated projects is not unusual.
17 So I think what we need to look at is
18 at least, at a minimum, reappropriating the
19 money that's been made available in this
20 budget. And then the other thing that we'd
21 look at is, you know -- and the biggest
22 thing -- is the cost, because a deficient
23 bridge is 16 times more expensive to rehab --
24 excuse me, pavement, in order to rehab, than
501
1 if it's kept in a state of good repair.
2 So when we have 40 percent of our
3 pavements going into --
4 (Time clock alarm.)
5 MR. HIFFA: I apologize. So -- but my
6 request is the same as theirs: 400 million,
7 250 million for the locals.
8 Thank you.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
10 Thank you. All right. Do we -- we will
11 start with Member Durso, please.
12 ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO: Thank you,
13 Chairman. And thank everybody for being here
14 and testifying today.
15 Walter, you had spoke specifically
16 about that everybody's kind of in agreement
17 with the crumbling infrastructure, the
18 bridges, the pavement, inflation, the amount
19 of money that's set up in the five-year
20 capital plan.
21 Do any of you believe that the
22 projects and what's meant to be reached over
23 the past -- you know, over that five-year
24 time span -- can be reached?
502
1 MR. PACHOLCZAK: Yeah. I mean, I
2 think that -- listen, it's going to be up to
3 the Governor and the Legislature to make that
4 commitment over the final couple of years
5 here to make sure that projects are done on
6 time.
7 It's also our responsibility as a
8 trade association and as participants here to
9 also help out the DOT, as an example, to try
10 get some more federal dollars for a project
11 such as the Livingstone Avenue Bridge here,
12 which is a $400 million project. That should
13 be a federal responsibility. I know DOT has
14 applied for funding, and they will reapply
15 for funding again.
16 And we are also on Capitol Hill with
17 AGC of America fighting to make sure that
18 New York gets its fair share. Despite
19 what -- some of the rhetoric you hear in
20 Washington, we have a good -- we have a very
21 strong congressional delegation led by
22 Senator Schumer, Congresswoman Stefanik, and
23 Congressman Jeffries, to make sure that we
24 get the job done here for New York.
503
1 So it can be done. It's going to take
2 some time.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO: So you believe
4 that without additional resources added to
5 it, as you were saying, do you think they
6 could do it under the current -- with the
7 current resources that are funding now? Can
8 it be done? Would you need additional
9 resources?
10 MR. PACHOLCZAK: I don't see how you
11 do it in a regular household budget if you
12 have 20 percent less to spend over the course
13 of five years than what -- the money has to
14 come from somewhere. Unless then you're
15 going to maybe eat a little less better, or
16 you might be able to put off some repairs.
17 But the longer we put off these
18 repairs, to Fred's point, with bridge decks
19 and other things, the cost just -- it
20 combines and multiplies, and you have a much
21 bigger problem on your hands down the road.
22 Which then we all will be voting on two years
23 from now, four years from now, or however
24 long you're here.
504
1 ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO: Agreed. So is
2 there a specific number, as opposed to when
3 it comes to money or a percentage? Or is it
4 the rate of inflation that you think that it
5 needs to be -- the resources need to go up to
6 keep up with inflation?
7 Does anybody -- anybody can answer.
8 MR. PACHOLCZAK: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
9 And we think that number is the
10 $400 million number. You know, that's
11 something that we look -- we look -- for this
12 year?
13 ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO: For this year.
14 MR. PACHOLCZAK: For this year alone?
15 That represents 20 percent of the core
16 budget, actually, so you get that 20 percent
17 back. And we have some work to do, though.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO: Okay. Anybody
19 else want to jump in? I have 26 seconds.
20 You can all jump in if you'd like.
21 MR. HIFFA: What Walter said.
22 (Laughter.)
23 ASSEMBLYMAN DURSO: Oh, okay. What
24 Walter said? Okay, I'll go with that. Thank
505
1 you, everybody. I appreciate it.
2 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Tim
3 Kennedy.
4 SENATOR KENNEDY: Gentlemen, thank you
5 so much. It's great to see you all. Thank
6 you for your leadership. You have been
7 consistent in your messaging.
8 You know, we've had great
9 accomplishments here in increasing funds at
10 every level, whether it's been capital funds,
11 whether it's been the CHIPS funds, whether
12 it's been -- record levels -- whether it's
13 been the State Touring Routes, new program.
14 You know, we're very, very pleased with the
15 work that we've done over many years with
16 you, so thank you all.
17 Obviously this is a very important
18 moment, and I want to just get into, in a
19 very short time here -- you've already said
20 it a couple of times, but drill into that
21 400 million and the importance of that.
22 We know, number one, it's capital, so
23 we can accommodate that under our bonding
24 ceiling. And, you know, look at -- we've put
506
1 forward a number in the past that was
2 five times as high as that number to
3 accommodate the inflation. But 400 million
4 is the number that we need to push for, you
5 heard me mention it earlier; you're
6 mentioning it now. Talk about the importance
7 of that, please.
8 MR. HIFFA: Yeah, I think -- and I
9 would look at it that the 400 million, as
10 Walter said, is basically the 20 percent on
11 the existing core. But again, you have a
12 record amount of priority projects.
13 The commissioner talked about the
14 Livingston Bridge, and I think it's a great
15 thing DOT is doing. The feds have come up
16 with rail grant money that she's competing
17 now for for that 400 million for the bridge.
18 She's going to apply -- I talked to her
19 yesterday. She's applying for another round.
20 That's 400 million that you have in your
21 budget already that hopefully there will be a
22 new revenue source for, for her to move
23 forward with it.
24 So, you know, the concern that we
507
1 would have is that -- use the existing
2 appropriation authorities on top of them
3 going after that money that we're losing for
4 the inflation, but we can't wait till the
5 third and fourth year to do it. Because
6 we're losing more to inflation. Because
7 inflation has slowed down, but you're still
8 paying more than you were when we -- when you
9 developed this plan, significantly more.
10 SENATOR KENNEDY: I want to get to --
11 thank you. Just short on time here; thank
12 you for that, Fred -- CHIPS funding.
13 You know, we know how important this
14 is for local roads. Again, our conference,
15 working with the Assembly -- the Democratic
16 Conference, Majority Leader Andrea
17 Stewart-Cousins made it a priority for
18 increasing CHIPS funding in the record
19 levels, and then we built on that last year.
20 Can you just talk to the importance of
21 the need for CHIPS funding?
22 MR. HALLBERG: The record levels, it
23 helps. But with the inflation, you're not
24 gaining and getting ahead. You're still
508
1 going to be behind, with what we do and the
2 costs of everything that --
3 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
4 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
5 Thank you.
6 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Assembly?
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Yes.
8 Member Palmesano, please.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Yes -- (mic
10 off; inaudible.) First, I wanted to say
11 thank you to you, gentlemen, and all your
12 members around the state for what you do each
13 and every day in our local communities to
14 help improve our local infrastructure and
15 roads, bridges, and culverts.
16 I also want to thank you for your
17 annual advocacy, for coming up here to remind
18 the Governor and us in the Legislature how
19 important a program like CHIPS is to your
20 operations and the impact that it has.
21 And Senator Kennedy mentioned the
22 importance of CHIPS, and I know you talked
23 about -- you were talking about how, you
24 know, the inflationary increases and things
509
1 like that for your diesel and your asphalt
2 and things of that nature, are impacting
3 those operations and eating into that.
4 Can you talk a little bit about that?
5 And also like for your members, you know, is
6 there something you could present to us
7 showing like what percentage of your
8 municipal budgets are impacted by CHIPS as a
9 percentage of your transportation budgets as
10 well?
11 MR. HALLBERG: Yeah. A lot of the
12 towns, that's their only money, is CHIPS.
13 With it being a reimbursement program, they
14 spend what they have and then they get it
15 back to run the rest of their budget -- the
16 CHIPS money for their roads. And with the
17 inflation and even the cost of new equipment,
18 which you can purchase -- and that has, you
19 know, more than doubled in the last few
20 years --
21 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: And how does
22 that --
23 MR. HALLBERG: -- trucks and -- you
24 know, it puts a burden on the local
510
1 taxpayers.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: And how much
3 of a negative impact is the $60 million
4 proposed cut by the Governor going to do to
5 your local communities and your local
6 taxpayers and your ability to do work?
7 MR. SMITH: I just think that CHIPS is
8 the lifeblood of many municipalities all
9 across New York State. We all receive CHIPS.
10 Inflation is taking a big part of that, but
11 also the crumbling infrastructure, the
12 maintenance of large culverts and bridges and
13 smaller bridges and things like that that the
14 towns have to deal with.
15 It's really a great program in
16 New York State, the ability to receive the
17 funding every year, roll it over but not roll
18 it over, allows us to use it every year -- it
19 goes right back into the infrastructure and
20 an increase in the condition of our roads and
21 bridges.
22 Like Greg said, a lot of the smaller
23 towns, that is their only highway budget.
24 Without it, it would be -- it would certainly
511
1 be going backwards.
2 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: And I think
3 you used a good word, lifeblood. That's
4 also -- CHIPS is the lifeblood of our upstate
5 rural communities, our local transportation
6 projects. Just like the MTA is the lifeblood
7 of the downstate transportation network. We
8 should fund it.
9 But when we see increases in the MTA
10 and don't see the parity with our upstate
11 roads and bridges when the five-year MTA
12 capital plan is 52 billion but the DOT
13 capital plan is 32 billion, where's the
14 parity? And this cut could be devastating to
15 you and hurtful for what you do.
16 MR. SMITH: Agreed. Thank you.
17 MR. HALLBERG: Yes.
18 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
19 Senator Tom O'Mara.
20 SENATOR O'MARA: Thank you.
21 Good evening, gentlemen. Thank you
22 all for being here. Appreciate your
23 testimony. You certainly have my full
24 support and sympathies for where we are in
512
1 this budget process right now.
2 Jeff, I just wanted to give you an
3 opportunity -- you were cut off at the end of
4 your testimony talking about some
5 recommendations, changes to bidding
6 requirements, thresholds. If you want to get
7 a chance to add, give us that, please.
8 MR. SMITH: Appreciate that, thank
9 you.
10 You know, for years the threshold of
11 CHIPS was $100,000, and we were able to make
12 it increase up to $350,000. When it was
13 increased to $350,000, the price of blacktop
14 per ton was $40 a ton. It's now $80 a ton.
15 If you were able to do, with 350,000, three
16 miles of road, we can only do a mile and a
17 half now.
18 So that whole three miles needs to get
19 done. And that's why we're here asking to
20 increase the threshold or take it away
21 altogether. It would really be a great help
22 to all of us to allow us to do our job better
23 and better spend the limited funds that we
24 have. Thank you.
513
1 SENATOR O'MARA: Okay. Thank you.
2 Thank you all.
3 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: All right.
4 Member Otis, please.
5 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you.
6 And thank you all for your testimony.
7 I read all of your testimony in advance of
8 today, and what you all provide that is so
9 valuable are the metrics that make the case
10 for why we need to sustain and increase this
11 funding.
12 One of the things mentioned in some of
13 your testimony was the fact that if you defer
14 maintenance, the cost goes up, if you defer
15 repairs. And that's something I learned when
16 I used to be a local official.
17 I'd like to get any of your comments
18 about another factor, which is weather,
19 extreme storms. Many of the bridges that are
20 being rebuilt in communities I represent are
21 not just being rebuilt, they're being
22 redesigned for resiliency -- which adds cost
23 and expense, but means they're going to
24 survive the next storm.
514
1 Can you -- anyone want to weigh in in
2 terms of that factor, in terms of the need
3 for this kind of funding? Because it's not
4 just replacing what we have, it's upgrading
5 to deal with increased deterioration because
6 of weather.
7 MR. SMITH: Yeah, I can start real
8 quick, if somebody else wants to join in.
9 But I think that as a rule, anytime
10 you're replacing a culvert or a box culvert
11 all the way up, in big and small, you're
12 always going to really look at the area and
13 see what kind of history is in the area, if
14 there's been any kind of flooding, upstream
15 and downstream as well.
16 What we really do is upsize. And
17 there's a lot of resources that tell us the
18 right correct size that it should be based
19 on, you know, the HEC analysis and the
20 watershed that reaches that point and the
21 road where it needs to cross.
22 I think that the recent storms are
23 real. It's definitely more focused.
24 Microbursts come across. Sometimes when it
515
1 hits you, you're the one and only that has to
2 bear the brunt of the storm. I know
3 Warren County just received some really harsh
4 weather, and they're under the gun to replace
5 some large culverts presently.
6 It does happen. It's very focused.
7 And when it happens to you, you don't feel
8 very lucky. Sometimes it misses you and you
9 feel lucky, but in the end you have to repair
10 it. The size is really determined by what we
11 feel is necessary and will sustain the next
12 storm, it's based on that.
13 That's pretty much all I had to say.
14 Thanks.
15 MR. PACHOLCZAK: Yeah, I just want to
16 add that the Governor has built resiliency
17 into the DOT capital program, and we're
18 grateful for that.
19 The thing you do have to remember
20 about building resiliency -- and it does cost
21 more money -- I think that we're also looking
22 at potentially some culvert money in the
23 Environmental Bond Act funding which should
24 be released -- it's starting to be released
516
1 now, and hopefully a little bit more next
2 year -- this year, I'm sorry.
3 Fred?
4 MR. HIFFA: No, just quickly, though,
5 one of the other things that the report helps
6 us look at is -- is that bridge decking that
7 we were talking about. Because you look at
8 it, in about 2.5 million square feet, a
9 little over half of that was local bridges.
10 Now, when you look as the percentage,
11 though, local bridges are a third of the deck
12 space of state bridges. So they're declining
13 a lot faster than those state bridges.
14 Thank you.
15 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
16 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you very
17 much. And a special shout-out to
18 John Cooney, who does a great job in our
19 region. So thank you.
20 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
21 Shimsky, please.
22 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Thank you,
23 Mr. Chairman.
24 Mr. Hiffa, would you go back to the
517
1 end of your original testimony and complete
2 your thought on the metrics on how much money
3 you end up wasting if you defer maintenance?
4 MR. HIFFA: Yeah. So on a bridge,
5 it's about five times the cost if you keep it
6 in a state of good repair. Going to poor --
7 which again, we have a -- 26 percent of our
8 bridges deficient. On pavements, which we're
9 40 percent deficient, it's 16 times. These
10 are DOT's numbers.
11 You know, it is a huge cost to do this
12 deferment of maintenance. It's tragic.
13 I also wanted to add, so just to
14 reinforce, though, it was 400 million on the
15 increase and 250 for the local. So it's on
16 that too, so -- thank you.
17 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Okay. And of
18 course those numbers don't include personal
19 injury and wrongful death settlements.
20 The second thing on CHIPS,
21 Mr. Hallberg, your point about rural
22 communities is very well taken. But no one
23 should underestimate the importance of CHIPS
24 to suburban areas like mine, like
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1 Mr. Cooney's. And BRIDGE NY as well. We
2 have a big bridge in Tarrytown that is going
3 to be ruinous for the village to fund if it
4 does not -- or has not gotten enough
5 BRIDGE NY funding.
6 CHIPS and BRIDGE NY are really for
7 everybody, and that's why it's so important
8 to raise them. If anyone wants to comment,
9 you've got a minute twenty-seven.
10 MR. COONEY: It goes back to you have
11 to stay up on these things. And the villages
12 and towns, the cost of their infrastructure
13 has gone up just like anyone else. And in
14 many situations, the condition of their
15 infrastructure is worse as well. So if you
16 cut that funding, you're only making what is
17 not a good problem a much more expensive
18 problem.
19 And some of the smaller -- BRIDGE NY
20 is a great program, but some of the smaller
21 municipalities have a difficult time
22 participating in it. They need that help.
23 But that -- someone said it earlier, it truly
24 is the lifeline of local infrastructure, that
519
1 funding. And it's extremely important in a
2 situation where inflation has eaten away
3 20 percent of what's going on and the
4 conditions of that local infrastructure are
5 continuing to deteriorate.
6 ASSEMBLYWOMAN SHIMSKY: Okay, thank
7 you. And certainly we cannot maintain this
8 society or this economy if we let our
9 transportation and transit go down the tubes.
10 So thank you very much for your advocacy.
11 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Well, thank
12 you all for participating today in this
13 panel. I just want to say something
14 personal. I think I meet with all of you and
15 I'll be meeting with you over the next few
16 weeks -- sometimes over and over again,
17 because it takes me a little longer to get
18 it.
19 But I do believe the Legislature has
20 been listening to you over the last few
21 years, not only in the Assembly but in the
22 Senate as well. And so we take what you're
23 telling us to heart, and let's see what we
24 can do in this budget.
520
1 I thank you all for being here. Thank
2 you for your presence.
3 MR. COONEY: Thank you very much.
4 MR. HIFFA: Thank you.
5 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you very
6 much.
7 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Next we have
8 our last panel, Panel D. Panel D:
9 Adirondack Council, AdkAction, New York
10 Aviation Managers Association, Putnam County,
11 and New York Construction Materials
12 Association. Please come down.
13 (Off the record.)
14 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Who would
15 like to lead off? Go right ahead.
16 MR. CHLAD: Let's get into it.
17 Well, good evening, everybody. I'm
18 Kevin Chlad, director of government relations
19 for the Adirondack Council.
20 So you might be wondering why is Kevin
21 at the Transportation Budget Hearing. The
22 EnCon Budget Hearing isn't until
23 February 7th. Well, as you know, New York
24 State's currently facing a budget gap, and
521
1 even larger budget gaps in outyear
2 projections. So the Adirondack Council would
3 like to highlight a costly overused expense
4 in New York's budget where we think taxpayers
5 can save money: Road salt.
6 Before we explore this even further, I
7 want to be clear. Our staff live in the
8 Adirondack Park and commute long distances.
9 We'll be the first to state that no efforts
10 to reduce road salt pollution should come at
11 the expense of public safety.
12 Our colleagues at great organizations
13 such as the Adirondack Watershed Institute,
14 River Keeper, AdkAction, the Lake George
15 Association -- they've all made formal
16 contributions to the record for this hearing,
17 and I want to thank them for lending their
18 expertise.
19 Since the 1980 Winter Olympics, enough
20 road salt has been applied to each lane mile
21 of Adirondack roadway to fill an
22 olympic-sized swimming pool. It all has gone
23 somewhere. Runoff from paved roads
24 ultimately enters our lakes, streams, and
522
1 groundwater. New York State's emergent
2 liability costs derive from homeowners who
3 are finding that their dishwashers are
4 rusting and their health is imperiled as a
5 direct result of their wells being polluted
6 by salt runoff. And that's coming from state
7 roadways.
8 Rust is a hidden tax imposed on
9 New Yorkers. Corrosion is costlier than all
10 other natural disasters combined, amounting
11 to 3 percent of GDP nationwide, or
12 $437 billion annually.
13 So salt is costly and bad for the
14 environment. Can we replace it? No. Can we
15 stop using it? No. So what do we do? The
16 solution is a lot of hard work and careful
17 attention to detail, but we can save the
18 state and its taxpayers a ton of money in the
19 process.
20 We need to calibrate our equipment and
21 measure what we're putting down. We need to
22 take preventative measures to ensure that
23 we're not wasting the salt we have and use.
24 We need to continually analyze the efficacy
523
1 of our practices and make adjustments to keep
2 using less. And like I said, it's hard work
3 that requires careful attention to detail,
4 but it can save a ton of money.
5 How much money? Let me point to the
6 Town of Hague in the Lake George Basin.
7 Using best management practices for road salt
8 use, the Town of Hague has been able to
9 reduce their winter road maintenance budget
10 by more than 50 percent without reducing
11 driver take-home pay. They provide same
12 level of service on their roadways and have
13 significantly reduced road salt pollution in
14 their community.
15 Thanks for the opportunity to testify.
16 MR. EPSTEIN: Excuse me. Good
17 evening, and thank you for having me here
18 today. My name is Ron Epstein. I'm with the
19 New York Construction Materials Association.
20 I have written -- verbal comments
21 here, but in the interest of time I think I'm
22 going to leave a lot of it on the cutting
23 floor. But trust me, it was brilliant.
24 I do want to start out with a quote
524
1 from Senator Schumer, Majority Leader
2 Schumer, one of the nation's primary authors
3 of the bipartisan infrastructure law, because
4 it kind of sets the context for what we're
5 talking about. "Crumbling bridges and roads
6 are a hazard to motorists and impede economic
7 development."
8 He goes on to say that with over
9 1700 bridges across New York in poor
10 condition, we can no longer afford to have
11 the mindset that we'll cross that bridge when
12 we get to it. And that's what we're really
13 talking about today, is we can't afford to
14 defer any longer.
15 I will very quickly cite some of the
16 statistics which you've heard before today.
17 My wife's a teacher, she always says "Say it,
18 say it, and say it again."
19 We have 1600 bridges in the State of
20 New York that, according to the Federal
21 Highway Administration, are in poor
22 condition. That's 30 percent higher than the
23 national average. The percentage of fair and
24 poor pavement conditions in New York State,
525
1 which is 40 percent, is among the worst in
2 decades. In certain regions of the state --
3 Buffalo, you know, the Mid-Hudson region, the
4 Western New York region, the Long Island
5 region -- they went from among the best to
6 the worst conditions in the state in that
7 decade.
8 For higher volume roadways in the
9 state, the interstates, and other types of
10 facilities in the state, New York ranks
11 46th in the nation for these facilities in
12 terms of the highest percentage of lane miles
13 in poor condition. This is what supports our
14 interstate commerce. This is what supports
15 of course our global competitiveness.
16 So what can we do? Well, you know,
17 it's clear it starts with the current budget.
18 We don't have the resources that we need, but
19 we urge you to add $400 million to DOT for
20 core construction for this year to offset the
21 inflationary impacts.
22 We urge you to restore the
23 $100 million that was cut from the CHIPS and
24 EWR programs. We urge you to provide
526
1 $150 million in additional local aid to help
2 locals offset the impact of their declining
3 conditions. And we hope and urge the State
4 of New York to make available no less than
5 $500 million in the Environmental Bond Act
6 for culverts.
7 Failure to include these asks will
8 result in the state having the lowest
9 conditions and actually getting the least in
10 terms of accomplishments-per-dollar-spent in
11 more than a decade.
12 And lastly, I do want to say, as a
13 point of personal privilege, having worked in
14 the Department of Transportation, I took a
15 great interest that the Executive Budget
16 included legislation to extend criminal
17 penalties for retail workers that were the
18 subject of assault. We fully support that.
19 But I also strongly urge you to
20 finally include -- to amend this proposal --
21 the assault and menacing of highway workers
22 as well as intrusions into work zones. Let's
23 make sure they can come home every night and
24 see their families again while they're trying
527
1 to do their job and keep us safe. So please
2 include highway workers in that legislation.
3 Listen, you didn't create this
4 problem. The current Executive didn't create
5 this problem. But let's work together on
6 trying to figure out a way out of it.
7 Thank you. Appreciate your time.
8 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you,
9 sir. Thank you.
10 Next?
11 MR. HEEFNER: Good evening,
12 Chair Krueger, Chair Magnarelli, and
13 Chair Kennedy. I am Mark Heefner, president
14 of the New York Aviation Management
15 Association, NYAMA. I'm also the
16 commissioner of aviation for the
17 Greater Binghamton Airport.
18 I'd like to express my appreciation
19 for this opportunity to provide comments on
20 the 2024-2025 Executive Budget as it relates
21 to airports and the aviation industry in
22 New York.
23 As you probably already know, airports
24 are major economic engines, and the benefits
528
1 of New York State airports are extremely
2 impressive. The aviation industry
3 contributes over $72 billion in annual
4 economic activity in New York State, and more
5 than 500,000 New York-based jobs in aviation
6 or aviation-related industries, generating
7 25 billion in payroll and over $6 billion in
8 state and local tax revenue each year.
9 Now, NYAMA commends Governor Hochul,
10 the Legislature, and the unwavering support
11 of the Legislative Aviation Caucus cochairs,
12 Assemblywoman Lupardo and Senator Martinez,
13 for supporting the capital needs of airports
14 and supporting investments in New York's
15 airports and aviation industry that drive
16 economic development, modernize facilities,
17 create high-quality, sustainable jobs, and
18 attract private sector investment.
19 The Upstate Airport Economic
20 Development and Revitalization Program is
21 beginning the transformation and
22 modernization of airports in upstate
23 New York. Since its inception in 2016,
24 14 airports have received awards under the
529
1 program. It's important to note that this
2 program leverages tens of millions of dollars
3 in funding sources such as federal and local
4 and private-sector investments that compound
5 the economic benefits to the state and local
6 economies.
7 NYAMA urges the Senate and Assembly
8 one-house budgets to include funding for
9 Round 3 of this program to expand and include
10 additional airports and to increase the
11 Aviation Capital Grant Program to reflect the
12 impact and return on investment that the
13 aviation industry has in New York.
14 Traditionally the State Aviation
15 Capital Funding Program is provided through
16 two program categories: the Airport
17 Improvement Program, which delivers a
18 matching share to federal AIP grants, funded
19 in the Executive Budget at $14 million; and
20 the Aviation Capital Grant Program that,
21 unlike the federal AIP money, can be used to
22 finance revenue-producing projects at
23 airports such as parking lots, fuel farms,
24 hanger construction, and concession
530
1 development which result in a tremendous
2 return on investment.
3 Unfortunately, the Aviation Capital
4 Grant Program is grossly underfunded at a
5 paltry $12.5 million per year. NYAMA
6 continues to advocate for a minimum state
7 financial commitment of $40 million per year
8 for the Aviation Capital Grant program and
9 $250 million for the Round 3 program of the
10 Upstate Airport Revitalization competition.
11 NYAMA looks forward to working with
12 you and your legislative colleagues on
13 developing strategies to maximize the
14 economic benefits from the state investments
15 in the airport and aviation industry.
16 Thank you.
17 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
18 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
19 Go ahead.
20 MS. BAILEY: Good evening. Thank you
21 so much for having me here today.
22 I want to tell you a story. A friend
23 of mine was pregnant --
24 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Who are you? We
531
1 actually know, but for the record --
2 MS. BAILEY: Oh. My name is
3 Sawyer Bailey. I'm the executive director of
4 AdkAction, a nonprofit in the Adirondack Park
5 working to solve problems to help people and
6 nature thrive.
7 The story I want to start with is one
8 of my friend who was pregnant a few winters
9 back. She was going to visit her
10 father-in-law on a snowy afternoon, and as
11 she was climbing the steps to go inside, she
12 slipped on ice and fell.
13 Now, everybody freaks out when a
14 pregnant woman falls. Nobody wants that.
15 And luckily she was fine, but the next time
16 she visited his house a few weeks later, the
17 steps were just covered in road salt.
18 And that's when it clicked with her.
19 We salt because we care. It's our desire to
20 keep our communities safe, to protect them.
21 But the problem is what's preventing a sudden
22 fall is slowly causing our loved ones and so
23 many more across the state so much pain. But
24 it's a slow type of violence.
532
1 Now, I told you about my friend, but
2 who I haven't told you about are the hundreds
3 of people I know in the Adirondack Park whose
4 well water has been polluted by salt
5 downslope of state highways and is now
6 undrinkable, not to mention the countless
7 lakes and streams that have been jeopardized.
8 Far too many families find that salt
9 in their water has cost them their farm,
10 their health, their savings, and their time.
11 They have shouldered significant extra
12 expense when it's hard enough just to make
13 ends meet these days. We have not kept them
14 safe. We have let them bear our collective
15 burden.
16 But I want you to know that we can
17 change, because I've already seen our
18 Adirondack town and county highway
19 departments change. You have not seen proud
20 until you've stood in a highway garage with
21 them, hearing about their brine-makers, which
22 pretreat roads with a 23 percent salt content
23 mixture to melt snow and ice on contact, or
24 seen them post photos of their live-edge
533
1 plows, which move with the road surface to
2 lift up more snow so there's less left behind
3 to salt.
4 They are so proud of these changes,
5 and they're proving we can bring them to
6 scale. AdkAction has the benefit of working
7 with 25 Adirondack town and county highway
8 departments to empower them with the tools,
9 the expertise, and the support they need to
10 control costs, maintain a high level of
11 service, and reduce their use of road salt
12 and sand.
13 These departments have been able to
14 reclassify lines of their budget to infuse
15 savings back into their departments, and I
16 believe the State of New York should do the
17 same. If our towns and counties are leading
18 the way, the state should be right there by
19 their side. This is a challenge we can solve
20 together.
21 Thank you.
22 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you.
23 Hi. Next?
24 COUNTY EXECUTIVE BYRNE: Hi. My name
534
1 is Kevin Byrne. I'm the Putnam County
2 Executive and a proud former member of the
3 State Legislature. I decided to try this
4 side for a change.
5 Putnam County is a key part of
6 New York State's Department of Transportation
7 Region 8. We heard a lot about that in
8 previous testimony. It's north of
9 Westchester County, south of Dutchess County,
10 and it's connected to both the Hudson River
11 as well as the Connecticut-New York State
12 line. And it is fortunate that it has both
13 the Harlem and Hudson Metro-North lines
14 traveling through it.
15 Back in 2018, when I was a member of
16 the Assembly, I actually served with my good
17 friend and colleague Phil Palmesano, where we
18 cochaired the Assembly Minority Conference's
19 Task Force on Critical Infrastructure and
20 Transportation. That year we gained greater
21 insight into our needs for the state's
22 transportation system and how we can
23 accomplish more by working together with so
24 many of our local partners. And I'm proud
535
1 that several of those concepts and findings
2 that were supported by that task force have
3 since become a reality.
4 I would say that this year we will
5 once again, as people in local government and
6 county government, we'll be asking our
7 friends in the State Legislature, seeking
8 your assistance to restore funding for our
9 transportation infrastructure, specifically,
10 $60 million to restore cuts from the
11 Executive Budget for CHIPS.
12 And we know there's a lot of other
13 different programs that are very important
14 for our transportation infrastructure.
15 Last year Putnam County, a small
16 county of less than 100,000 people, we
17 received over $1.2 million in CHIPS funding
18 alone. That's $1.2 million that otherwise
19 would have been raised by property taxes if
20 not for the state assistance. Which would
21 have very much undermined our ability to move
22 forward with our paving program.
23 Something I have learned in state
24 government is that nearly nine out of every
536
1 10 roads in the state are maintained under
2 local jurisdiction, totaling over 97,000
3 centerline miles owned by local
4 governments -- compared to just over 15,000
5 owned by the state. Of the nearly 17,500
6 bridges in the state, more than half -- over
7 8,000 of them -- are owned by local
8 governments.
9 Putnam County -- again, just serving
10 nearly 100,000 people -- our small county
11 government is responsible for maintaining
12 83 large-diameter culverts, 31 bridges, and
13 116 centerline miles of county road. And
14 again, like so many other people in local
15 government and county government, inflation
16 has its toll, driving the cost of labor,
17 asphalt, and diesel fuel for us to make sure
18 that we can move forward with so many of our
19 programs and plans.
20 I would say that we have a very strong
21 partnership with our friends at the
22 Department of Transportation. We know
23 there's limits in finances, but for us to be
24 able to move forward and do what we do in
537
1 county government, we're all part of that
2 same transportation system that links one
3 road to the other. That's important for our
4 hospitals, for our schools, for our emergency
5 first responders, for our businesses.
6 We need to work together and view it
7 as that same shared commitment. I just would
8 ask you for your support, the Legislature to
9 step up again, as it has so many times
10 before, to put those additions into the state
11 budget.
12 Thank you.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
14 Senator?
15 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Senator Tim
16 Kennedy.
17 SENATOR KENNEDY: Thank you very much.
18 Great to see you all. First of all,
19 let me thank all of you for your efforts, for
20 your leadership in various ways. You know,
21 we've worked on these issues for a number of
22 years and have had great victories with the
23 Adirondack Road Salt Reduction Act.
24 I want to ask you about that, but I
538
1 just want to make a quick note, County
2 Executive. Good to see you in your new role.
3 I'm a little disappointed that you didn't
4 come in with the bagpipes playing but, you
5 know, we'll save that maybe for another day.
6 But I want to ask about the task force
7 and the pilots that are currently under way
8 testing different deicing methods. Do you
9 think what is being tested is enough? And
10 are the pilots being funded at the level that
11 they need to be funded and are there other
12 methods of deicing that ought to be tested in
13 this moment?
14 MR. CHLAD: Well, first off, thank you
15 for your leadership in advancing the
16 Randy Preston Road Salt Reduction Act. We
17 wouldn't have a task force or a task force
18 report without your leadership, so thank you
19 so much.
20 Everything is in there, in the task
21 force report. The answers are in there.
22 What's missing is an action plan and a
23 timeline with clearly set reduction targets,
24 a game plan. There's no budget. Those are
539
1 the things that are missing.
2 I do -- my understanding is that task
3 force members did push to have those items
4 included, but those were not ultimately
5 included. So I think there's going to be a
6 need to have -- conduct some follow-up work,
7 perhaps with the Legislature, perhaps also
8 with DOT in partnership, to put that
9 together, put together the action plan, the
10 timeline, the budget, et cetera, so that this
11 actually, you know, comes to fruition.
12 But we've got a map, we've got a menu,
13 we've got a game plan.
14 SENATOR KENNEDY: Excellent, thank
15 you.
16 That's all I have. Thank you.
17 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Member
18 Palmesano, please.
19 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Thank you.
20 First, to all of you, thank you for
21 your patience and perseverance. You are the
22 last panel, so we appreciate your patience.
23 My question is for my friend Kevin.
24 Kevin, obviously you sat on this side of the
540
1 table as a state legislator where you've
2 advocated and voted for funding to go to our
3 local communities through important programs
4 like CHIPS. Now you are the county
5 executive, where you're tasked with making
6 critical infrastructure improvements for your
7 community and for the people you serve.
8 So my question is regarding the
9 $60 million cut to the CHIPS program. What
10 percentage of your transportation budget that
11 you use to fix your roads, bridges, and
12 culverts comes from the CHIPS program, and
13 how would this cut impact your ability to
14 provide these critical services to fix local
15 infrastructure in your county?
16 COUNTY EXECUTIVE BYRNE: So of our
17 about $14 million operating budget within
18 DPW, Department of Public Works, our paving
19 program budget is approximately about
20 $3 million. I mentioned $1.2 million are
21 CHIPS, but when you add in some of the other
22 state programs that are very much driven as
23 state assistance and local aid for paving,
24 it's approximately $1.9 million. That would
541
1 account for approximately two-thirds of our
2 paving program's budget.
3 So it would create tremendous stress
4 for the county government to maintain its
5 county roads and its commitment to the people
6 of our county. But I also know just from
7 working productively in collaboration with
8 our leaders in town government and village
9 government, we have some large towns and some
10 very small towns. We don't have a city in
11 Putnam County. One of our smallest villages
12 is Nelsonville, in the Town of Philipstown.
13 It's less than one square mile. They don't
14 even have a DPW. They largely outsource so
15 much of the work. So every dollar they get
16 from CHIPS goes into their paving program,
17 and it would virtually completely hamstring
18 them.
19 And just from that task force that we
20 participated in over five years ago, I know
21 that there are other towns and county
22 governments in upstate New York that solely
23 rely on CHIPS for their paving program. So
24 it would cause tremendous stress.
542
1 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Thank you.
2 And one other question. During that
3 task force, obviously we learned a lot of
4 things. What was probably some of the
5 most -- takeaway from that that you learned
6 and that you applied here as a legislator and
7 now you're now seeing it back home?
8 COUNTY EXECUTIVE BYRNE: So I think
9 part of it's the partnership that we have
10 with state government and the federal
11 government. And it's really one
12 transportation system.
13 So I heard you, you talk about every
14 year it's about parity with the MTA. And in
15 my county obviously I care about the
16 Metro-North and our DOT, because I'm in that
17 spot where we're just about an hour north of
18 the city.
19 But that forward thinking, that
20 planning and that commitment so we don't have
21 to fight with the Legislature or advocate
22 with the Legislature to restore cuts, whether
23 it's in EWR, Extreme Winter Recovery -- which
24 should really just be in the base of the
543
1 CHIPS funding -- but having that long-term
2 vision where we were looking for, I know, a
3 $100 million commitment in CHIPS funding each
4 year for a five-year span, increases in
5 BRIDGE NY funding, make sure we index it for
6 inflation -- boy, wouldn't that make a lot of
7 sense right now with the way that inflation
8 has been running rampant.
9 ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO: Thank you.
10 ASSEMBLYMAN MAGNARELLI: Thank you.
11 Thank you.
12 Member Otis.
13 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Thank you,
14 Mr. Chair.
15 Kevin Byrne, nice to see you. Always
16 a pleasure.
17 I have a question for our two
18 Adirondack panelists. Either of you can
19 tackle this, which is in terms of salt
20 reduction, what has been the activity of the
21 local governments in the Adirondacks to
22 reduce their use of road salts?
23 MS. BAILEY: Thank you for that
24 question. And it's really been inspiring to
544
1 see what our municipal and our county highway
2 departments and their town boards and county
3 boards have been able to make possible.
4 There's been a lot of inspiration and
5 motivation and a lot of learning in our
6 region. And I'm proud to say that, again,
7 25 towns and counties are working with us,
8 not to mention the ones who have been
9 pursuing solutions on their own to reduce
10 their use of road salt and sand.
11 We have seen some of our town highway
12 departments reduce their use of chloride by
13 50 percent -- at the same time, bringing in
14 80,000 in savings to reinfuse in the
15 department to upgrade their equipment, to
16 help make sure operators are keeping pace
17 with what, you know, pay should be for people
18 in that line of work.
19 These folks are heroes. And I feel
20 like they're really piloting solutions that
21 we can bring to a state level.
22 ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS: Great. Thank you
23 very much.
24 MS. BAILEY: Thank you.
545
1 CHAIR MAGNARELLI: I think that
2 concludes this panel, and it concludes this
3 hearing for the day.
4 I really appreciate your taking part
5 and giving testimony, and look forward to
6 working with you all in the coming weeks.
7 Thank you.
8 CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER: Thank you also.
9 (Whereupon, at 6:38 p.m., the budget
10 hearing concluded.)
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