Public Hearing - February 13, 2024

                                                                       1

 1  BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE FINANCE
    AND WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEES
 2  -----------------------------------------------------

 3          JOINT LEGISLATIVE HEARING

 4             In the Matter of the
           2024-2025 EXECUTIVE BUDGET ON
 5                MENTAL HYGIENE
    
 6  -----------------------------------------------------

 7  
    
 8                              Hearing Room B
                                Legislative Office Building 
 9                              Albany, New York 
    
10                              February 13, 2024
                                9:34 a.m.
11  
    
12  PRESIDING:

13            Senator Samra G. Brouk
              Chair, Senate Committee on Mental Health
14  
              Assemblywoman Helene E. Weinstein
15            Chair, Assembly Ways & Means Committee
    
16  PRESENT:

17            Senator Thomas F. O'Mara
              Senate Finance Committee (RM)
18  
              Assemblyman Edward P. Ra 
19            Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)
    
20            Assemblywoman Aileen Gunther
              Chair, Assembly Committee on Mental Health 
21  
              Senator John W. Mannion
22            Chair, Senate Committee on Disabilities
    
23

24


                                                                   2

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Mental Hygiene
 2  2-13-24
    
 3  PRESENT:  (Continued)
    
 4            Assemblywoman Rebecca A. Seawright 
              Chair, Assembly Committee on People with
 5             Disabilities
    
 6            Senator Nathalia Fernandez
              Chair, Senate Committee on Alcoholism 
 7             and Substance Use Disorders
    
 8            Assemblyman Phil Steck
              Chair, Assembly Committee on Alcoholism 
 9             and Drug Abuse
    
10            Assemblyman Angelo Santabarbara
    
11            Assemblywoman Mary Beth Walsh
    
12            Assemblyman Khaleel M. Anderson
    
13            Senator Michelle Hinchey
    
14            Assemblywoman Anna R. Kelles 
    
15            Assemblyman Chris Eachus
    
16            Assemblyman Alex Bores
    
17            Senator Gustavo Rivera
    
18            Assemblywoman Jo Anne Simon
    
19            Assemblyman Brian Maher
    
20            Senator Lea Webb
    
21            Assemblywoman Taylor Darling
    
22            Assemblyman Jake Blumencranz
    
23            Senator John C. Liu
    
24            Assemblywoman Jodi Giglio
    

                                                                   3

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Mental Hygiene
 2  2-13-24
    
 3  PRESENT:  (Continued)
    
 4            Assemblyman Harvey Epstein
    
 5            Senator Patricia Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick
    
 6            Assemblyman Chris Burdick
    
 7            Senator Peter Oberacker
    
 8            Assemblyman Jarett Gandolfo
    
 9            Assemblywoman Karen McMahon
    
10            Assemblyman Keith P. Brown
    
11            Senator Jacob Ashby
    
12            Assemblyman Edward C. Braunstein
    
13            Assemblywoman Emily Gallagher
    
14            Assemblyman Sam Berger
    
15            Senator Rob Rolison
    
16            Assemblywoman Monique Chandler-Waterman
    
17            Assemblyman Philip A. Palmesano
    
18            Senator Julia Salazar
    
19            Assemblyman Manny De Los Santos
    
20            Senator Bill Weber
    
21            Assemblyman Michael J. Norris
    
22            Senator Jessica Scarcella-Spanton
    
23  
    
24  
    

                                                                   4

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Mental Hygiene
 2  2-13-24
    
 3                     LIST OF SPEAKERS
    
 4                                       STATEMENT  QUESTIONS
    
 5  Ann Marie T. Sullivan, M.D. 
    Commissioner
 6  NYS Office of Mental Health (OMH)
         -and-
 7  Chinazo Cunningham, M.D. 
    Commissioner
 8  NYS Office of Addiction 
     Services and Supports (OASAS)        
 9       -and-
    Kerri Neifeld 
10  Commissioner 
    NYS Office for People With
11   (OPWDD)                                  12        36
    
12  Denise M. Miranda 
    Executive Director
13  NYS Justice Center for the
     Protection of People with 
14   Special Needs                           246       251
    
15  Courtney L. David
    Executive Director
16  NYS Conference of Local
     Mental Hygiene Directors                
17       -and-
    Matthew Shapiro 
18  Senior Director of
     Government Affairs
19  National Alliance on Mental 
     Illness of New York State             
20   (NAMI-NYS)
         -and-
21  Glenn Liebman
    CEO
22  Mental Health Association
     in New York State (MHANYS)             265       276
23  
           
24  

                                                                   5

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Mental Hygiene
 2  2-13-24
    
 3                     LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued  
    
 4                                        STATEMENT  QUESTIONS
    
 5  Mike Alvaro
    President
 6  New York Disability Advocates          
         -and-
 7  Page Pierce
    CEO
 8  Families Together in 
     New York State
 9       -and-
    Ronald Richter
10  CEO
    JCCA
11       -and-
    Maria Cristalli
12  President and CEO, Hillside 
    Board Chair
13  NYS Coalition for Children's
     Behavioral Health
14       -and-
    Jennifer March 
15  Executive Director
    Citizens' Committee for 
16   Children of New York                    
         -on behalf of-
17  Healthy Minds, Healthy Kids
     Campaign                                315       330
18  
    
19  

20

21

22

23

24


                                                                   6

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Mental Hygiene
 2  2-13-24
    
 3                     LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued  
    
 4                                        STATEMENT  QUESTIONS
    
 5  Toni Smith
    New York State Director
 6  Drug Policy Alliance
         -and-
 7  Allegra Schorr
    President
 8  Coalition of Medication-Assisted
     Treatment Providers & Advocates
 9   (COMPA)
         -and-
10  Harvey Rosenthal 
    CEO
11  The Alliance for Rights and 
     Recovery
12       -and-
    Drena Fagen
13  Licensed Practitioner
    New York Creative Arts
14   Therapists
         -and-
15  Michael Seereiter
    President & CEO
16  New York Alliance for
     Inclusion & Innovation                 354       371                 
17  
    
18

19

20

21

22

23

24


                                                                   7

 1  2024-2025 Executive Budget
    Mental Hygiene
 2  2-13-24
    
 3                     LIST OF SPEAKERS, Continued  
    
 4                                        STATEMENT  QUESTIONS
    
 5  Erik Geizer
    CEO
 6  The Arc New York
         -and-
 7  Sebrina Barrett
    Executive Director
 8  Association for Community 
     Living (ACL)                           
 9       -and-
    Tom Harris
10  President
    Times Square Alliance
11       -and-
    Jim Karpe
12  Steering Committee Member 
    Coalition for Self-Direction
13   Families                                 415       427
    
14             

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24


                                                                   8

 1                  SENATOR BROUK:  Good morning, 

 2           everyone.  I am not Senator Liz Krueger, but 

 3           sitting in today for our dear Finance 

 4           chair -- Senator Samra Brouk, chair of the 

 5           New York State Senate Committee on 

 6           Mental Health, and cochair of today's budget 

 7           hearing.  

 8                  Today is the 11th of 13 hearings 

 9           conducted by the joint fiscal committees of 

10           the Legislature regarding the Governor's 

11           proposed budget for the state fiscal year 

12           '24-'25.  These hearings are conducted 

13           pursuant to the New York State Constitution 

14           and Legislative Law.

15                  Today the Senate Finance Committee and 

16           the Assembly Ways and Means Committee will 

17           hear testimony concerning the Governor's 

18           proposed budget for the following agencies:  

19           the Office of Mental Health, the Office for 

20           People With Developmental Disabilities, the 

21           Office of Addiction Services and Supports, 

22           and the Justice Center for the Protection of 

23           People With Special Needs.

24                  Following each testimony there will be 


                                                                   9

 1           some time for questions from the chairs of 

 2           the fiscal committees and other legislators.  

 3                  I'll now introduce members of the 

 4           Senate.  Today we have with us the chair of 

 5           our Disabilities Committee, Senator Mannion.  

 6           We are joined by Senator Webb and we are 

 7           joined by Senator Rivera.  I think I got 

 8           everybody.  

 9                  I will now hand it over to 

10           Assemblymember Helene Weinstein, chair of the 

11           Assembly Ways and Means Committee, to 

12           introduce her members.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you, 

14           Senator.

15                  So we have with us Assemblywoman 

16           Gunther, chair of our Mental Health 

17           Committee; Assemblyman Steck, chair of our 

18           Alcoholism Committee; and Assemblywoman 

19           Seawright, chair of our Disabilities 

20           Committee.  

21                  We're also joined by Members Bores, 

22           Braunstein, Burdick, Eachus, and Simon.  And 

23           Mr. Epstein.

24                  So Mr. Ra will be here shortly.  And I 


                                                                   10

 1           will introduce the members of the Minority in 

 2           a few moments.  

 3                  Back to you, Senator.

 4                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you, 

 5           Assemblymember.  

 6                  I also want to say Senator Fernandez, 

 7           our Alcoholism chair, has also joined us.  

 8                  And now I will hand it over to 

 9           Senator Tom O'Mara, ranking member of the 

10           Senate Finance Committee, to introduce 

11           members from his conference.

12                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you, 

13           Chairwoman.  

14                  Good morning, all.

15                  On our side, we have Ranking Member 

16           Senator Peter Oberacker and Senator Rob 

17           Rolison.

18                  Thank you.

19                  SENATOR BROUK:  Wonderful.  

20                  Representing each of the agencies, I 

21           would like to welcome Dr. Ann Marie Sullivan, 

22           commissioner, New York State Office of 

23           Mental Health -- good morning -- Dr. Chinazo 

24           Cunningham, commissioner, New York State 


                                                                   11

 1           Office of Addiction Services and Supports; 

 2           and Kerri Neifeld, commissioner, New York 

 3           State Office for People with Developmental 

 4           Disabilities.  

 5                  After the final question-and-answer 

 6           period, there will be an opportunity for 

 7           members of the public to briefly express 

 8           their views on the proposed budgets under 

 9           discussion.  

10                  At this time I would like to begin 

11           with Panel A:  Dr. Sullivan, Dr. Cunningham, 

12           and Commissioner Neifeld.

13                  Dr. Sullivan?

14                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Just before you 

15           go, I just want -- we should just review the 

16           time frame for everyone.  

17                  But first I did want to just introduce 

18           the members of the Minority who are here from 

19           the Assembly, if that's okay.  The ranker on 

20           Mental Health, Member Gandolfo; the 

21           Alcoholism ranker, Keith Brown; the 

22           Disabilities ranker, Jodi Giglio.  And 

23           Mr. Blumencranz and Mr. Maher.

24                  And just as a reminder, this panel 


                                                                   12

 1           gets 10 minutes for each member to speak.  

 2           The chairs of the relevant committees will 

 3           have 10 minutes after the panel is finished 

 4           to ask questions of the panel.  And we'll 

 5           review the rules once we get to the 

 6           nongovernmental witnesses.  

 7                  And we just always encourage 

 8           everybody, the commissioners as well as the 

 9           members of the public who will be speaking 

10           later, don't read your testimony.  It's been 

11           distributed, it's posted.  Please use your 

12           three minutes to tell us what's important.

13                  Thank you, Senator.

14                  SENATOR BROUK:  Go ahead, 

15           Commissioner.  Thank you.

16                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Good 

17           morning.  I'm Dr. Ann Sullivan, commissioner 

18           of the New York State Office of Mental 

19           Health.  Chairs Krueger, Weinstein, Brouk and 

20           Gunther and members of the respective 

21           committees, I want to thank you for the 

22           invitation to address Governor Hochul's 

23           fiscal year 2025 proposed budget.

24                  I'm pleased to report that this budget 


                                                                   13

 1           substantially builds on Governor Hochul's 

 2           $1 billion plan to develop a truly 

 3           comprehensive mental health system.  

 4                  We began this transformation last 

 5           year, building services to address the 

 6           post-pandemic needs of our youth, widely 

 7           expanding access to community services, and 

 8           expanding intensive treatment and supports 

 9           for the most seriously mentally ill.  Our 

10           staff traveled across the state, engaging 

11           communities, to inform our efforts to 

12           implement these newly funded initiatives.  

13           All funds will be released by the end of 

14           March.  

15                  The work was approached with a 

16           particular emphasis on diversity, integrated 

17           care, and the importance of peers in 

18           delivering services.  

19                  As part of last year's plan, OMH added 

20           150 new state-operated inpatient beds and 

21           partnered with community hospitals to restore 

22           nearly 500 beds taken offline during the 

23           COVID pandemic.  This year's budget will 

24           build on this success by opening an 


                                                                   14

 1           additional 200 state hospital beds, with a 

 2           focus on specializing them for individuals 

 3           with the most complex needs, and including 

 4           additional Transition to Home units for our 

 5           chronically unsheltered clients.  

 6                  The expansion will also provide 

 7           capacity for youth with complex needs and 

 8           individuals with recurring criminal justice 

 9           involvement, and also an increased forensic 

10           bed capacity.  

11                  Expanding inpatient capacity, however, 

12           is only effective if it results in 

13           individuals being successfully transitioned 

14           back to the community.  The budget fosters 

15           connections between hospitals and community 

16           providers, with a focus on communication, 

17           planning, and data systems to improve patient 

18           outcomes after they leave an inpatient or ER 

19           setting.  OMH will convene subregional 

20           working meetings to ensure that these 

21           connection efforts are focused on the unique 

22           needs of each community.  

23                  Governor Hochul's continued commitment 

24           to improving mental health also focuses on 


                                                                   15

 1           addressing three key areas:  placing the 

 2           spotlight on youth mental health, barriers to 

 3           care by insurance coverage, and the needs for 

 4           individuals with serious mental illness who 

 5           are not effectively engaged in treatment.  

 6                  In March 2023, Governor Hochul 

 7           launched a Youth Mental Health Listening Tour 

 8           to hear directly from middle and high school 

 9           students about their experiences with mental 

10           health.  OMH partnered with the Office of 

11           Children and Family Services to conduct 

12           additional listening sessions.  The Governor 

13           listened when youth said they needed more 

14           services in their schools, a voice in 

15           developing those services, and when family 

16           wanted more access to treatment and more 

17           control over their child's access to social 

18           media.  

19                  Given this input, Governor Hochul has 

20           proposed establishing a Youth Advisory Board 

21           to ensure that the voice of youth continues 

22           to inform all our work.  She also pledged to 

23           provide startup funding for any school 

24           wanting a school-based mental health clinic 


                                                                   16

 1           and has promised enhanced reimbursement 

 2           rates, while also ensuring these services are 

 3           adequately reimbursed by insurance carriers.  

 4                  The budget proposes legislation to 

 5           control addictive algorithms aimed at youth 

 6           and increase parental controls over social 

 7           media access.  In addition, the proposed 

 8           budget will add state-operated psychiatric 

 9           inpatient beds to serve children and 

10           adolescents with specialized needs.  

11                  This year's budget includes 

12           $20 million in new resources that will:  

13                  Add 12 new Youth Assertive Community 

14           Treatment teams that will serve more than 

15           1,000 youth; 

16                  Provide a 25-percent increase to 

17           Medicaid rates for partial hospitalization 

18           programs; 

19                  Expand youth-led peer programs, 

20           including Teen Mental Health First Aid 

21           training and safe spaces using peer 

22           ambassadors to engage teens; 

23                  And expand specialized Children's 

24           Community Residences focused on youth 


                                                                   17

 1           transitioning into adulthood.  

 2                  Maternal mental health initiatives 

 3           will also be funded with $1.6 million in new 

 4           resources to ensure that service providers 

 5           engaging pregnant and postpartum New Yorkers 

 6           are equipped to provide the very best care. 

 7           Specialized training will be developed for 

 8           988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline providers.  

 9                  Training for Project TEACH Maternal 

10           Mental Health will also be expanded and 

11           offered to an array of frontline 

12           practitioners.  

13                  Additionally, the Office of Mental 

14           Health has been selected by SAMHSA to 

15           participate in a National Learning 

16           Collaborative on this maternal health.  

17                  One of the many tenets of the mental 

18           health system is to engage individuals in 

19           treatment that supports recovery and helps 

20           them to live successfully in the community. 

21           This also helps to reduce the need for 

22           hospitalization and involvement in the 

23           criminal justice system.  

24                  OMH will work intensively with 


                                                                   18

 1           hospitals and emergency rooms to implement 

 2           new regulations for best practices in 

 3           admission and discharge planning, including a 

 4           requirement that ensures individuals are not 

 5           discharged without an appropriate plan and 

 6           access to follow-up services.  

 7                  In addition, for arrested or 

 8           incarcerated individuals not effectively 

 9           engaged in treatment, this year's budget 

10           includes $24 million to fund criminal justice 

11           and community mental health forensic 

12           initiatives, including a dedicated OMH team 

13           to work with regional field offices focused 

14           on connections to services; mental health 

15           navigators to work in county courts with the 

16           courts, mental health coordination teams and 

17           local providers, and referring individuals to 

18           treatment and services; 100 new transitional 

19           housing beds for individuals with mental 

20           illness leaving the criminal justice system; 

21           10 new Forensic ACT teams; a specialized 

22           supportive housing program to help 

23           individuals and staff support the needs for 

24           those who have unfortunately experienced 


                                                                   19

 1           repeated arrests and difficulty engaging in 

 2           mental health treatment; and an expansion of 

 3           CIT training.  

 4                  Ensuring access to care.  All insurers 

 5           must pay adequately for behavioral health 

 6           services.  To ensure proper access, 

 7           commercial insurers will have to pay at least 

 8           the Medicaid rate for OMH-licensed clinic 

 9           services.  

10                  In addition, recently posted 

11           regulations by the State Department of 

12           Financial Services will require a 10-day 

13           access to behavioral health appointments, 

14           accurate provider directories, and easy 

15           access to out-of-network services whenever 

16           in-network services are unavailable.  

17                  Finally, the mental health workforce 

18           is a vital component of any expansion and 

19           improvement plan.  As we continue to 

20           implement and expand recruitment and 

21           retention strategies -- including the Mental 

22           Health Loan Repayment Program, which this 

23           year reserves an additional $4 million 

24           investment for child-serving practitioners 


                                                                   20

 1           specifically -- this year's budget also 

 2           includes a 1.5 percent cost of living 

 3           increase, additional funding for job 

 4           marketing, a job bank, a behavioral health 

 5           fellowship program, and a focus on rural 

 6           investments.  

 7                  Again, thank you for the opportunity 

 8           to testify on the Executive Budget, and I am 

 9           happy to answer any questions you may have.

10                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Good 

11           morning, Senator Brouk, Assemblymember 

12           Weinstein, Senator Fernandez, 

13           Assemblymember Steck, and distinguished 

14           members of the Legislature.  My name is 

15           Dr. Chinazo Cunningham, and I'm the 

16           commissioner of the New York State Office of 

17           Addiction Services and Supports.  

18                  Thank you for the opportunity to 

19           present Governor Hochul's fiscal year '25 

20           Executive Budget and how it supports our work 

21           at OASAS on behalf of those impacted by 

22           substance use disorder and problem gambling. 

23                  First, however, I want to update you 

24           on some accomplishments in the past year.  


                                                                   21

 1                  New York has made Opioid Settlement 

 2           funds available to localities and 

 3           community-based organizations faster than any 

 4           other state in the nation.  The fiscal year 

 5           '23 Enacted Budget allocated $192 million in 

 6           settlement funds, and OASAS has made all 

 7           those funds available.  

 8                  Of the $212 million from fiscal year 

 9           '24, $144 million in Opioid Settlement funds 

10           have already been made available to support 

11           prevention, treatment, harm reduction, and 

12           recovery services across the state.  We have 

13           plans to make the remaining funding available 

14           in the coming months.  

15                  Initiatives have been identified in 

16           alignment with the Opioid Settlement Fund 

17           Advisory Board's recommendations, within 

18           10 key priority areas.  That includes 

19           establishing integrated outpatient and opioid 

20           treatment programs, which will significantly 

21           expand access to methadone treatment; 

22           additional initiatives to expand access to 

23           medication treatment, including low-threshold 

24           buprenorphine; scholarships to support the 


                                                                   22

 1           workforce; youth prevention programs; support 

 2           for recovery centers and transportation; 

 3           enhanced outreach and engagement; and more.  

 4                  In addition, last year OASAS launched 

 5           an online ordering portal, making lifesaving 

 6           harm reduction supplies available to the 

 7           public, free of charge.  Over the past 

 8           18 months, more than 70,000 naloxone kits, 

 9           5 million fentanyl test strips and 4 million 

10           xylazine test strips were shipped to 

11           individuals and organizations across the 

12           state.  This effort joined a major statewide 

13           media campaign designed to raise awareness 

14           about addiction, describe addiction services 

15           available, and reduce stigma associated with 

16           addiction.  

17                  July also saw the opening of the first 

18           Mobile Medication Unit in New York State. 

19           These mobile units bring a wide array of 

20           addiction services and medical care directly 

21           to underserved communities.  New Yorkers can 

22           expect additional units to roll out across 

23           the state this year.  

24                  The fiscal year '25 Executive Budget 


                                                                   23

 1           will allow OASAS to continue these critical 

 2           initiatives and enhance support of our 

 3           provider system and the individuals they 

 4           serve.  Specifically, this year's budget 

 5           includes more than $46 million in 

 6           Opioid Settlement funds to support priority 

 7           areas identified by the advisory board and 

 8           targets over $17 million for local 

 9           municipalities, which is in addition to the 

10           $110 million provided to localities in the 

11           last two years.  

12                  In all, the proposed OASAS budget 

13           contains roughly $1.2 billion, including 

14           $170 million for State Operations, 

15           $898 million for Aid to Localities, and 

16           $92 million for Capital projects.  It 

17           continues the Opioid Stewardship funds, which 

18           allows OASAS to expand harm reduction 

19           services and provide financial assistance to 

20           help ensure individuals can access treatment 

21           and medication.  

22                  Workforce recruitment and retention 

23           remains a top priority across the OASAS 

24           system of care.  Despite the ongoing 


                                                                   24

 1           challenges, recent historic investments into 

 2           the addiction workforce helps us support and 

 3           expand a skilled, compassionate network of 

 4           professionals.  The Executive Budget includes 

 5           additional support through a 1.5 percent 

 6           cost-of-living adjustment, representing three 

 7           straight years of COLA increases, totaling 

 8           $76 million in the OASAS budget.  

 9                  This action builds upon the 

10           $23 million in Opioid Settlement funds 

11           supporting workforce initiatives, including a 

12           newly announced Leadership Institute and paid 

13           internship programs.  

14                  In treating individuals with 

15           co-occurring substance use and mental health 

16           conditions, close collaboration is a priority 

17           for OASAS and the Office of Mental Health. 

18           The budget supports ongoing efforts to triple 

19           the number of Certified Community Behavioral 

20           Health Centers to better address individuals' 

21           complex needs, regardless of their ability to 

22           pay.  

23                  OASAS and OMH will also continue the 

24           rollout of Crisis Stabilization Centers, 


                                                                   25

 1           which provide support, assistance, and 

 2           urgent access to care to those who 

 3           desperately need it.  

 4                  Since 2022, state law requires 

 5           medication treatment for all substance use 

 6           disorders in carceral settings.  I am very 

 7           proud to report that all 44 prisons and all 

 8           58 jails are implementing all forms of 

 9           medication treatment for substance use 

10           disorders.  The proposed budget provides 

11           funding for OASAS to expand its support for 

12           county correctional facilities to maintain 

13           and enhance their treatment programs.  

14                  State revenues from casinos and 

15           mobile sports betting will enable OASAS to 

16           continue prevention efforts related to public 

17           awareness campaigns promoting responsible 

18           gambling.  OASAS is also developing guidance 

19           for the State Department of Education to help 

20           educate young people about the potential 

21           risks of underage gambling.  Further, we 

22           established a new Problem Gambling Bureau 

23           within OASAS to develop enhanced training for 

24           clinicians, improve problem gambling 


                                                                   26

 1           screening, and collect important data that 

 2           monitors gambling behaviors among adults and 

 3           youth.  

 4                  Regarding the legalization of adult 

 5           use cannabis, OASAS is raising awareness for 

 6           its responsible use through a brand-new 

 7           social media campaign and the development of 

 8           a toolkit containing information about the 

 9           effects of cannabis on youth.  In addition, 

10           we're collecting important data from youth 

11           and young adults about their cannabis 

12           behaviors and attitudes, while also training 

13           providers on evidence-based prevention of, 

14           and treatment for, cannabis use disorders.  

15                  The OASAS continuum of care includes 

16           programming and supports to help individuals 

17           achieve and maintain their personal health 

18           and recovery goals.  In the fiscal year '25 

19           Executive Budget the Governor builds on the 

20           investment made last year in Recovery 

21           Community Centers with $12 million from 

22           Opioid Settlement funds, and adds an 

23           additional $5 million to continue services 

24           that were established with federal funding 


                                                                   27

 1           that will end this year.  

 2                  Lastly, the proposed budget includes 

 3           ongoing support for a five-year capital plan 

 4           to ensure the health and safety of 

 5           individuals and proper maintenance of 

 6           facilities.  

 7                  As outlined today, the proposed 

 8           Executive Budget will allow OASAS to continue 

 9           its person-centered, harm-reduction, 

10           data-driven, equitable approach to service 

11           delivery that meets people where they are and 

12           ultimately saves more lives.  OASAS will 

13           continue ensuring that New Yorkers have a 

14           full continuum of prevention, treatment, 

15           harm reduction, and recovery programming and 

16           services.  

17                  We appreciate your ongoing support of 

18           these critical efforts, and I look forward to 

19           working with you to better serve those in 

20           need.  With that, I welcome any questions. 

21                  Thank you.

22                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Good 

23           morning, Chairs Brouk and Weinstein, 

24           Disability Committee Chairs Mannion and 


                                                                   28

 1           Seawright, and other distinguished members of 

 2           the Legislature.  I am Kerri Neifeld, 

 3           commissioner of the New York State Office for 

 4           People With Developmental Disabilities.  

 5                  Thank you for the opportunity to 

 6           provide testimony about Governor Hochul's 

 7           fiscal year 2025 Executive Budget proposal 

 8           and how it benefits New Yorkers with 

 9           developmental disabilities.  

10                  I want to start by acknowledging and 

11           thanking both the Governor and the 

12           Legislature for their support of people with 

13           developmental disabilities and our service 

14           system.  The last two budgets have included 

15           historic investments in the OPWDD system and 

16           demonstrated the state's commitment to the 

17           nearly 135,000 people who access our 

18           services.  Your acknowledgement and 

19           commitment to people with developmental 

20           disabilities helps us to amplify their voices 

21           and improve their services.  

22                  OPWDD recently released updates to our 

23           Strategic Plan.  The five-year plan 

24           represents a continued effort to be 


                                                                   29

 1           responsive to people's needs and to envision 

 2           the future of our service system together 

 3           with our stakeholders.  

 4                  The three overarching goals outlined 

 5           in our Strategic Plan include strengthening 

 6           our agency's infrastructure, transforming the 

 7           system through innovation and change, and 

 8           enhancing person-centered supports and 

 9           services.  As part of the first goal, 

10           strengthening our workforce continues to be 

11           our highest and most urgent priority.  

12                  Staffing levels of direct support 

13           professionals continue to be of great 

14           concern.  And for the third consecutive year, 

15           the Governor's Executive Budget provides 

16           funds to support our providers in addressing 

17           this crisis.  The proposed budget includes a 

18           1.5 percent cost-of-living adjustment, which 

19           would build on the previous two years' 

20           budgets, for a cumulative increase of nearly 

21           $1 billion to OPWDD provider agencies.  

22           Additionally, over the last few years, 

23           significant investments have been made in the 

24           state's direct support workforce as well.  


                                                                   30

 1                  The proposed budget also supports 

 2           recalculating provider reimbursement rates, 

 3           known as rate rebasing.  Rate rebasing is a 

 4           federally required process where we update 

 5           provider reimbursement to reflect changes in 

 6           the actual cost of delivering services.  The 

 7           full annual gross value of rebasing will be 

 8           $350 million and, when combined with the new 

 9           resources associated with the proposed 

10           1.5 percent COLA, will provide an increase of 

11           more than $480 million for the provider 

12           network once fully implemented.  These 

13           investments in our system will help service 

14           providers to maintain critical supports.  

15                  Additionally, OPWDD has made 

16           tremendous strides toward professionalizing 

17           and publicly elevating the direct support 

18           workforce through our partnerships with the 

19           National Alliance for Direct Support 

20           Professionals and SUNY.  These collaborations 

21           create a career ladder for DSPs through 

22           national certifications, while also providing 

23           opportunities to gain college credits.  

24                  As highlighted recently on PBS 


                                                                   31

 1           NewsHour, DSPs participating in the 

 2           credentialing program have reported increased 

 3           morale and improved outcomes for the people 

 4           they support.  I am happy to report that to 

 5           date, over 1,000 DSPs have been certified in 

 6           New York.  

 7                  OPWDD has programmed over $60 million 

 8           in current-year resources to continue support 

 9           for these programs in the years ahead, and 

10           will also be making them available for the 

11           first time to the state's direct support 

12           workforce.  Working with the New York 

13           Alliance for Inclusion and Innovation, we are 

14           identifying best practices on recruitment and 

15           retention as a resource for service 

16           providers.  

17                  In the coming weeks, OPWDD will launch 

18           a $30 million statewide DSP recruitment 

19           campaign to assist provider agencies with 

20           finding new staff.  We know that there is no 

21           single solution to the current workforce 

22           crisis, and we will continue to pursue every 

23           opportunity to strengthen our direct care 

24           workforce.  


                                                                   32

 1                  The proposed budget also supports our 

 2           goal to transform the system through 

 3           innovation and change.  It includes 

 4           legislation that would allow people with 

 5           developmental disabilities and their 

 6           families, once approved by a nurse, to train 

 7           their support staff to administer medication 

 8           and perform other simple tasks.  This will 

 9           benefit many people who strive for greater 

10           independence.  

11                  Additionally, the proposed budget 

12           calls for the Most Integrated Settings 

13           Coordinating Council to update New York's 

14           Olmstead Plan, which will facilitate 

15           increased person-centeredness, choice and 

16           inclusion.  This work will lead to more 

17           people with disabilities learning, working, 

18           and enjoying their lives within their 

19           communities.  

20                  The Executive Budget proposal further 

21           supports our goal of system transformation by 

22           investing in new service opportunities.  It 

23           devotes $60 million in new state resources 

24           which, when matched by the federal 


                                                                   33

 1           government, can total up to $120 million. 

 2           This investment helps to expand the services 

 3           our sector provides.  

 4                  The Governor's proposed budget 

 5           continues the annual $15 million investment 

 6           in community-based supportive housing.  This 

 7           funding builds on the $125 million in capital 

 8           resources that have been invested since 2015 

 9           to develop independent housing opportunities 

10           for people with developmental disabilities.  

11                  The Executive Budget proposal also 

12           aligns with our agency's second strategic 

13           goal to transform our system through 

14           innovation and change by including a 

15           $6.7 million investment to fund the 

16           Governor's commitment to becoming an 

17           Employment First state.  OPWDD, in 

18           partnership with the Chief Disability 

19           Officer, will lead this multi-agency effort 

20           to increase employment opportunities for 

21           people with disabilities.  

22                  This investment builds on last year's 

23           commitment to make New York a model employer 

24           and to encourage New York businesses to 


                                                                   34

 1           employ people with disabilities.  Backed by 

 2           legislation sponsored by Senator Mannion and 

 3           Assemblymember Burdick and signed into law by 

 4           the Governor, OPWDD has trained 14 businesses 

 5           on the benefits of hiring people with 

 6           developmental disabilities, and we are 

 7           looking at ways to further expand the 

 8           training's reach.  

 9                  The Governor's proposed budget also 

10           includes a $1 million increase to 

11           Special Olympics NY, to support their work 

12           with inclusive sports training, skill 

13           building and competition, and to provide 

14           health screenings and health education.  

15                  In alignment with the third goal of 

16           our strategic plan, to improve services and 

17           supports by making sure they are 

18           person-centered, OPWDD has prioritized 

19           strengthening diversity, equity, and 

20           inclusion within our service system.  

21                  We have expanded our stakeholder 

22           engagement to include those who have been 

23           historically underserved by OPWDD, and we are 

24           working closely with community-based 


                                                                   35

 1           organizations and providers who have 

 2           expertise in serving diverse these 

 3           communities, to ensure our understanding of 

 4           their needs. 

 5                  In addition, we are entering the 

 6           second year of a three-year project with 

 7           Georgetown University's National Center for 

 8           Cultural Competence to improve our cultural 

 9           and linguistic capacity and our system's 

10           ability to serve New Yorkers with 

11           developmental disabilities.  

12                  Finally, I am happy to report that 

13           with your support, particularly that of 

14           Senator Mannion and Assemblywoman Woerner, 

15           OPWDD kicked off the "Look Beyond My 

16           Developmental Disability" anti-stigma 

17           campaign this past year.  This campaign was 

18           created by people with developmental 

19           disabilities and the people who support them, 

20           and the positive feedback we have received 

21           has been tremendous.  

22                  This year, as we enact a new state 

23           budget, I am hopeful that we will be able to 

24           continue pursuing and achieving our goals for 


                                                                   36

 1           improving how New York supports people with 

 2           developmental disabilities -- through a 

 3           strong workforce, system innovation, and 

 4           improved supports and services.  

 5                  I look forward to working with all of 

 6           you as we advance these goals and strive to 

 7           create a more inclusive and accessible New 

 8           York for people with developmental 

 9           disabilities.  

10                  Thank you.  

11                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you, 

12           Commissioners.  

13                  We will start with our questions now.  

14           As a reminder, chairs of relevant committees 

15           have 10 minutes for question and answer; 

16           ranking members will have five minutes; and 

17           every other legislator will have three 

18           minutes.

19                  With that, we will start with our 

20           chair, Senator Fernandez.

21                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Good morning.  

22           Thank you so much, Commissioners, for being 

23           here.

24                  I have a few questions, so I'm just 


                                                                   37

 1           going to try to get through it.  There might 

 2           be jumping around.  

 3                  But starting with the work of OASAS, 

 4           combined with Mental Health, what is being 

 5           done about co-occurring disorders?  I know 

 6           there is dual licensing that has started 

 7           that's out there.  Could you describe what is 

 8           the work to address that?  

 9                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  

10           Absolutely.  

11                  So we recognize that it's very 

12           important that we can fully address people 

13           with co-occurring disorders.  We know that 

14           people with addiction often have mental 

15           health conditions as well.  

16                  So just to start off with, as you 

17           mentioned, we have over 200 programs that 

18           have integrated licenses, both with OMH and 

19           OASAS, along with the Department of Health.  

20           And they have the authority to function as a 

21           single program, and we are continuing to 

22           improve on that and expand that.

23                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  What difficulties 

24           have you found, or any barriers with that 


                                                                   38

 1           dual licensing right now?  

 2                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  I'm 

 3           sorry?

 4                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Any difficulties 

 5           or barriers that you've seen?

 6                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  I 

 7           mean, we've certainly gotten feedback from 

 8           programs that there's -- you know, it's still 

 9           not as seamless as they would have expected.  

10           And so we are working closely with the Office 

11           of Mental Health to sort of revise that and 

12           to come up with a, you know, a sort of new 

13           system that allows our whole system to really 

14           have different levels of integrated care.  

15                  So that's something that we're working 

16           on right now to really improve that existing 

17           integrated license.

18                  In addition, you know, there are many 

19           initiatives that we are working on together.  

20           We are tripling CCBHCs across the state, 

21           which allow people with co-occurring 

22           disorders or either mental health or 

23           substance use disorders, to have really 

24           wraparound comprehensive services.  


                                                                   39

 1                  In addition, we have Crisis 

 2           Stabilization Centers that are also occurring 

 3           in every region.  So for immediate access to 

 4           care, they're available 24 hours a day, seven 

 5           days a week, to address mental health or 

 6           substance use crises.

 7                  We're also doing a lot of training 

 8           with the workforce as well, so cross-training 

 9           between both systems.  And we're offering 

10           scholarships at OASAS, and that includes 

11           scholarships to individuals who are staffed 

12           in OMH programs or DOH programs so they can 

13           get the addiction training.

14                  And our procurement process has also 

15           changed as well.  And so part of the scoring 

16           for procurement includes how programs are 

17           going to address mental health or substance 

18           use, depending on whether --

19                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  For our youth, how 

20           do they address mental health and substance 

21           use disorder?  We're seeing a growing number 

22           of our youth experiencing substance use 

23           disorders and co-occurring disorders.  So 

24           what is the plan or the action plan being 


                                                                   40

 1           done from your offices to address our youth 

 2           that are suffering?  

 3                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  We're 

 4           also working very closely with the Office of 

 5           Mental Health, especially as they're 

 6           expanding their school-based services.  So we 

 7           are including addiction prevention in that 

 8           work.  And then with our prevention 

 9           programmers, we're also enhancing our mental 

10           health training.  So for example, screening 

11           for suicidality is now incorporated into a 

12           lot of our programming.  

13                  So, you know, specifically for the 

14           youth in schools, we are collaborating there.

15                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  In the -- oh, go 

16           ahead.

17                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  I would 

18           just like to add, too, that the 988 crisis 

19           system is extensively training people to be 

20           able to do integrated care.  Anybody calling 

21           into 988 -- adults, youth, anyone.  

22                  And all the new services that OMH is 

23           putting up in terms of housing, all of these 

24           services are open to individuals with dual 


                                                                   41

 1           diagnosis.  And we're doing some specialty 

 2           training for people to be able to deal with 

 3           that.  

 4                  So really the connections between the 

 5           services we're developing is very, very 

 6           tight.  So basically all the new services 

 7           will have integrated care.

 8                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Thank you.  

 9                  Switching to another topic, the 

10           Governor has proposed scheduling in a number 

11           of new compounds -- not just fentanyl, but 

12           stimulants, hallucinogens, depressants, 

13           including xylazine, psilocybin and ibogaine.  

14                  How would the scheduling allow you to 

15           do your work?  Or how would the scheduling of 

16           all these compounds impact your ability to do 

17           your work?  

18                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Yes, 

19           so certainly we know that there, you know, is 

20           an increase in the number of adulterating 

21           substances that are entering the illegal drug 

22           market.  And we recognize that it is 

23           important to be able to detect them, to 

24           inform the community about them, and then to 


                                                                   42

 1           give the community tools, you know, to be 

 2           able to change their behavior depending on 

 3           what they're finding in the market.

 4                  I mean, for that reason, 

 5           Senator Fernandez, you know, we've made 

 6           fentanyl test strips and xylazine test strips 

 7           available easily on our website, and we've 

 8           already shipped out over 5 million fentanyl 

 9           test strips and 4 million xylazine test 

10           strips.

11                  In addition, you know, in terms of the 

12           scheduling, I mean, our agency does not have 

13           the authority to schedule.  But I think that 

14           for us really the focus is on making sure 

15           that people are aware of what's in the drug 

16           supply and then giving them the tools so that 

17           they can change their behavior accordingly 

18           and remain safe.

19                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  What research is 

20           your office doing on any alternative 

21           medicines and practices?  

22                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  So, 

23           you know, we certainly understand the 

24           importance of research and data.  I mean, I'm 


                                                                   43

 1           a researcher -- you know, have been doing 

 2           research for over 20 years before becoming a 

 3           the commissioner of OASAS.  So using a 

 4           data-driven approach is absolutely one of the 

 5           guiding principles at OASAS.

 6                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Well, some of 

 7           these compounds that she wants to schedule 

 8           might -- well, actually, would it impede work 

 9           being done to conduct research on alternative 

10           treatments such as psilocybin and ibogaine?  

11                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Really 

12           our focus has been on the existing 

13           FDA-approved medications because we know that 

14           they are extremely effective.  They reduce 

15           death by 50 percent.  And there's not many 

16           other things that we do in healthcare that 

17           reduce death by 50 percent.  

18                  So our focus has really been on taking 

19           what we know from decades of research and 

20           making sure that people have access to that.

21                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  So you don't do 

22           any original research on your own.

23                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  We do 

24           original research.  We also have a research 


                                                                   44

 1           RFP that is currently out right now, using 

 2           Opioid Settlement funds to expand our 

 3           research.  

 4                  But really our focus is on improving 

 5           access to tried-and-true effective treatment.

 6                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Okay.  Many 

 7           advocates have declared this summer -- they 

 8           did it this summer -- that we are in a state 

 9           of emergency when it comes to our opioid 

10           crisis and what is being done about it.  Do 

11           you agree that we have reached a state of 

12           emergency?  And if the Governor did declare 

13           it, what would that allow you to do to help 

14           individuals seek treatment?  

15                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  We 

16           absolutely recognize the urgency of the 

17           overdose epidemic.

18                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  But do you think 

19           we're in a state of emergency?  

20                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  We 

21           certainly are acting with urgency.  We know 

22           that this is the worst that an overdose 

23           epidemic has ever been on record.  

24                  You know, and for that reason we've 


                                                                   45

 1           really worked hard to focus on harm 

 2           reduction, to make sure that people can stay 

 3           alive.  So, you know, using naloxone, 

 4           fentanyl test strips, xylazine test strips, 

 5           and -- and going out and reaching those who 

 6           are at highest risk.

 7                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Well, more to that 

 8           state of emergency is the other areas besides 

 9           what you just said.  And it was touched upon 

10           earlier with aid to transportation and 

11           housing.  Those are components of someone's 

12           recovery, making sure that there is stability 

13           in their life.  

14                  Could you speak about the 

15           transportation support that was mentioned?  I 

16           think the -- forget which one of you 

17           mentioned it.

18                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  

19           Absolutely.  So there are many transportation 

20           initiatives that we have funded over the 

21           years.  We recognize how important 

22           transportation is, particularly in rural 

23           communities, both for treatment and for 

24           recovery.


                                                                   46

 1                  So we are continuing that.  That is 

 2           one of the 10 priority areas of the Opioid 

 3           Settlement Fund Advisory Board, which we 

 4           agree with.  So we are continue our ongoing 

 5           support of transportation initiatives across 

 6           the state.

 7                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  It is my 

 8           impression that we need to do a little more 

 9           in assisting with transportation aid.  

10                  But for housing, there's barriers that 

11           continue to remain in someone finding a 

12           stable home after going through treatment.  

13           Can you speak on that?  Is there anything 

14           that you're aware of?  

15                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  

16           Absolutely.  So we have a full continuum of 

17           services at OASAS that range from, you know, 

18           crises -- so like withdrawal management all 

19           the way through supportive housing, and 

20           everything in between.  

21                  So we have recently invested more 

22           money in transitional housing, so that is 

23           specifically for people coming out of 

24           residential treatment or out of jail or 


                                                                   47

 1           prison, to have temporary housing until they 

 2           can find supportive housing.  And then we 

 3           also have, you know, a robust supportive 

 4           housing portfolio as well.

 5                  In addition, we have new regulations 

 6           that we are modifying and are about to 

 7           publish -- again, for recovery housing.  So 

 8           this is an important new part of the OASAS 

 9           system.  So up until this point, recovery 

10           housing has not been under the umbrella of 

11           OASAS.  But this is a really important new 

12           part of our system.  So we plan on publishing 

13           those regulations again soon, and then plan 

14           to make them final this year.

15                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  There are certain 

16           recovery groups and communities that do not 

17           qualify for Opioid Settlement funds.  Would 

18           you recommend that maybe they do, given that 

19           it is a part of the recovery umbrella?  

20                  Or maybe that's a loaded question.  

21                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Right 

22           now we're really following the standards of 

23           State Finance Law, which require the state to 

24           use investments in voluntary and nonprofit 


                                                                   48

 1           organizations.

 2                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Thank you.

 3                  And for my last 30 seconds, 

 4           Commissioner of Mental Health, you mentioned 

 5           investments in mental health courts, 

 6           including navigators.  Could you expand on 

 7           that, what other investments the Governor has 

 8           proposed for our mental health courts?

 9                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  A 

10           significant expansion of mental health courts 

11           as well, and that's in the -- in another 

12           budget but not in ours.  So there will be 

13           more mental health courts.

14                  The navigators and then, in addition, 

15           connected to the navigators is something 

16           called Forensic ACT teams.  Forensic ACT 

17           teams are wraparound services for the most -- 

18           for individuals who need the most help but 

19           are not engaged in clinics.  

20                  And then the forensic navigators, 

21           Forensic ACT and 100 units of housing will 

22           all be connected for the highest-need 

23           clients.

24                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you, 


                                                                   49

 1           Commissioner.

 2                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Thank you.

 3                  SENATOR BROUK:  Next we'll hand it 

 4           over to the Assembly.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you, 

 6           Senator.

 7                  So before we go for questions, 

 8           we've -- as the hearing started we were 

 9           joined by Assemblymembers Santabarbara, 

10           Berger, Chandler-Waterman, Gallagher, Kelles 

11           and Anderson.  

12                  And now to our chair of the 

13           Assembly's Mental Health Committee, 

14           Assemblywoman Gunther.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Good morning, 

16           everybody, and thank you for coming.  

17                  I think we're going to hear a lot 

18           about the COLA today.  And as chair of the 

19           Assembly Mental Health Committee, I will work 

20           with my colleagues to increase the Executive 

21           proposal.  And right now we're at 3.2, and 

22           hopefully we can get more than that.  

23                  There's no doubt we have some 

24           promising programs being proposed by the 


                                                                   50

 1           Executive, but I think the focus needs to be 

 2           on building a workforce so we can ensure 

 3           these new programs have a staff necessary to 

 4           get off the ground and increase access to the 

 5           service providers already operating.

 6                  Sticking with that, can you tell me 

 7           specifically what is in the 1115 waiver that 

 8           will help the behavioral health workforce, 

 9           Ann?  Sorry, I've known you so long, so I -- 

10           Commissioner.  Sorry.

11                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  No, no.  

12           Hello.  Thank you.

13                  The 1115 waiver has a couple of things 

14           for workforce.  One is an additional loan 

15           repayment, and that will cover not just 

16           behavioral health but obviously all 

17           services -- medical, et cetera.  So there's 

18           an expansion of loan repayment.  

19                  The other is a pipeline for training.  

20           And the training will include training 

21           paraprofessionals as well as some dollars for 

22           training and entry of professionals.  

23                  So there's two pieces in the 1115 

24           waiver, are training and loan repayment for 


                                                                   51

 1           the workforce.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  How would 

 3           that -- where would the training be?  Would 

 4           it be in the communities?  Are you giving 

 5           money to like hospitals or schools?  

 6                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  I don't 

 7           think that -- I mean, DOH has to talk a 

 8           little bit about that.  I think that the 

 9           1115 waiver stays with them.  

10                  But I think it will -- most likely it 

11           will involve working with universities and 

12           doing training in the community.  They'll 

13           have an elaborate, I think, system of how to 

14           do it.  But DOH is working with us on that.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  You know, I 

16           was very happy at the recent expansion of the 

17           OMH Community Mental Health Practitioner Loan 

18           Repayment Program, especially the $4 million 

19           earmarked in the budget for clinicians 

20           serving children.  Are you able to share an 

21           estimate of the number of practitioners that 

22           will benefit from this program?  Any details, 

23           if you have them.

24                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yeah, 


                                                                   52

 1           we're hoping that for $4 million, somewhere 

 2           in the range of 400 to 500 practitioners 

 3           might be able -- it's a -- $30,000 for 

 4           practitioners, $10,000 a year for three 

 5           years, and then they work for three years 

 6           with us.  

 7                  A previous loan repayment program, 

 8           which was for psychiatrists and nurse 

 9           practitioners, we have already over 250 

10           combined psychiatrists and nurse 

11           practitioners.  Another rollout will get us 

12           probably another 250.  So it's working.  The 

13           loan repayment programs seemed to have an 

14           impact.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Okay.  Also 

16           regarding school-based mental health clinics, 

17           can you provide me information on how many 

18           schools have a mental health clinic 

19           currently, and where are they located?  

20                  And can we also like find out about 

21           the process that a school would need to 

22           complete and receive funding for a mental 

23           health clinic in their schools?  

24                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  There are 


                                                                   53

 1           about 1200 -- approximately 1200 school-based 

 2           mental health clinics now.  They are pretty 

 3           much -- two-thirds are in rest of state, and 

 4           one-third is in New York City.  So we're 

 5           working with New York City to increase that 

 6           amount.

 7                  But 1200 so far.  The funding in the 

 8           budget is $20 million, which over the next 

 9           several years can increase each year by 

10           several hundred school-based clinics.  

11                  We are also going to start a rolling 

12           application process, which would make it 

13           easier for schools at any point to come 

14           forward and then we would give them startup 

15           funds so they can begin working on developing 

16           the school mental health clinic.  Those 

17           startup funds range from 25,000 to 45,000.  

18                  And then another critical thing was in 

19           last year's budget a set rate for 

20           reimbursement, both for commercial payers and 

21           Medicaid, for school-based clinics.  So these 

22           clinics are now financially viable across the 

23           state once they are established in the 

24           schools.


                                                                   54

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  They are very, 

 2           very important to our children across 

 3           New York State.

 4                  So also there will be 125 additional 

 5           state-operated inpatient psychiatric beds 

 6           compromised at 15 beds for children.  Can you 

 7           just tell us a little bit more about where, 

 8           when, and how soon?  How soon is really the 

 9           most important part here.

10                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  The beds 

11           for youth I think we can get up this year.  

12           It's not exactly finalized exactly where they 

13           will be yet.  But we did add -- in last 

14           year's budget we put seven beds at Rockland 

15           Children's Psychiatric Center for kids, for 

16           youth, and 10 at Mohawk Valley.  

17                  We're looking at now where we would 

18           want to put those additional beds this year, 

19           but that hasn't quite been decided.  But they 

20           will come up this year.  We're looking for 

21           the space.

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  So I represent 

23           a county with a high rate of kids with mental 

24           health issues.  And what happens is that 


                                                                   55

 1           we're a very low income area.  And, you know, 

 2           parents need to be involved in recovery, both 

 3           in addiction and in mental health.  And a lot 

 4           of times they're both involved -- you know, 

 5           people self-medicate.  

 6                  And so are we thinking about -- like 

 7           we have community hospitals.  Are we thinking 

 8           about asking those hospitals where, you know, 

 9           the kids reside, to, you know, open these 

10           beds?  We used to have like 25 -- we used to 

11           have 25 beds in the Catskill area.  Now, you 

12           know, they're few and far between, and we're 

13           sending our kids down to Rockland County, 

14           people don't have cars.  It's just not 

15           working.

16                  And in order to be recovered, we need 

17           to have things working.  And we're putting a 

18           lot of money into mental health this year, 

19           but sometimes I think that we're deciding 

20           where this money goes from the top down, 

21           rather than the bottom up.  

22                  And I know we -- you know, we talk to 

23           some people, but I'm telling you, these 

24           children are not being treated and we need 


                                                                   56

 1           more help.

 2                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  There's 

 3           $50 million in capital -- the RFP is out -- 

 4           to expand inpatient beds, new inpatient beds.  

 5           And we have contacted all the hospitals to 

 6           please consider as a priority -- a priority 

 7           for that $50 million is youth beds.  And 

 8           we've contacted hospitals.  We don't know yet 

 9           who's going to apply, but we have talked with 

10           them about it.

11                  In addition, over the past maybe four 

12           years the rates for inpatient services for 

13           youth have increased by over 50 percent.  So 

14           they are now financially viable to have child 

15           beds.  So we've made them financially viable, 

16           and now we're working with hospitals.  But 

17           we're still not sure which hospitals will 

18           come to us for the 50 million -- for the 

19           capital to expand the beds.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  So these local 

21           hospitals get so much money from the State of 

22           New York, and they should be mandated to 

23           serve their community.  So there has to be 

24           some sort of a mandate to get it into our 


                                                                   57

 1           community.  We're shipping our kids -- the 

 2           ambulances are going up and down and up and 

 3           down.  It's a -- it's probably a 

 4           two-and-a-half-hour-drive for an ambulance.  

 5           And then we have no ambulances in our 

 6           community.  

 7                  And that's not the way to deal with 

 8           mental health, sending an ambulance to a 

 9           home.  So it's really -- I know you're trying 

10           but -- you know, I'm hoping the Governor is 

11           hearing my voice.

12                  Also, can we talk a little bit about 

13           the Department of Health is proposing a 

14           125 million cut in funding for health homes.

15                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  In this 

16           budget as well as the last budget, there is 

17           support for the health homes for the most 

18           intensive work with both adults and youth.  

19           So for example, there are dollars for 

20           high-fidelity wraparound which are continuing 

21           in this budget to ensure that youth -- 

22           high-fidelity wraparound is special for 

23           youth -- will get the intensive services they 

24           need in the health homes.  And also an 


                                                                   58

 1           increase in dollars for Health Home Plus for 

 2           adults.

 3                  So we are working very closely to 

 4           ensure that the individuals with mental 

 5           health issues who need health home services 

 6           most, that they will get them.  And there is 

 7           support for that in the budget.  

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  We also talk 

 9           about community-based services and how many 

10           children are currently being served in the 

11           home-and-community-based.  Are there many 

12           people being served in those community-based 

13           children and family treatment and support 

14           services?  

15                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  The 

16           home-and-community-based, yes, I think at 

17           this point for home-based crisis intervention 

18           they were up -- will be up to the 

19           availability within I think two years, 

20           probably almost 5,000 slots for that 

21           home-based, community-based waiver -- home- 

22           and community-based services.  

23                  I believe with individuals with mental 

24           health problems, about 8,000 kids are right 


                                                                   59

 1           now being served.

 2                  So these are expanding.  I think that 

 3           the Intensive Services Youth Act, home-based 

 4           crisis intervention, home-based children's 

 5           waiver, all these are significant expansions 

 6           in intensive services for youth.

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Well, you 

 8           know, I see in my community that, you know, 

 9           our ambulances are going to the homes.  And 

10           it really isn't appropriate healthcare, 

11           that's first and foremost.  

12                  And secondly, I want to say -- and 

13           hopefully the Governor's listening -- that 

14           when you're making what DSPs and people that 

15           serve our community -- as little money as 

16           they can, and they're saving lives every day.  

17           To me, 3.2, when you're making the salary 

18           that they're -- is not going to move them in 

19           a different direction.

20                  So I really feel that we need more 

21           investments than a 3.2 percent.  It's just 

22           ridiculous.  It's been climbing little by 

23           little.  But these are mostly women, and they 

24           provide amazing services.  They're devoted.  


                                                                   60

 1           And they really should get more than 

 2           3 percent across -- 3.2 percent across the -- 

 3           it was 1.5, now it's 3.2.  We asked for over 

 4           5 percent, and I think they're worthy of 

 5           5 percent because of the job that they do for 

 6           so many fragile people across New York State.  

 7                  So let's increase that 3.2 percent.  

 8           It's only fair.  We have a big budget.  We do 

 9           a lot of things.  And you know what, they 

10           should be paying these folks that are caring 

11           for the most helpless people in our 

12           communities.  So that's my last one.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

14                  To the Senate.

15                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  Before we 

16           go to our next questioner, I just want to 

17           recognize Senator Hinchey, Senator Liu and 

18           Senator Salazar have joined us this morning.

19                  And next we will hear from our chair 

20           of the Committee on Disabilities, 

21           Senator John Mannion.

22                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you, 

23           Madam Chair.  

24                  Thank you, Commissioners.  Thank you, 


                                                                   61

 1           Commissioner Neifeld, for your partnership 

 2           and leadership as we collectively navigate 

 3           through these very -- continuing challenging 

 4           times and multiple crises that we see.  

 5                  The Executive Budget proposes a 

 6           1.5 percent cost-of-living adjustment.  In 

 7           the past what we've seen is typically the 

 8           number is tied to CPI-U.  But that is 

 9           different as the budget has been released.  

10           Why is this year different than other years 

11           as far as connecting those two metrics?

12                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So I 

13           think as you know, there is no requirement 

14           that the COLA be tied to the CPI-U.  That was 

15           past practice and has not been the 

16           requirement in a few years.

17                  I think what we see this year is the 

18           Governor's continued commitment, right.  This 

19           is her third budget, it's the third budget 

20           that includes a cost-of-living adjustment.  

21           you know, whereas the previous 

22           administration, you know, chose not to 

23           include the cost-of-living adjustment.

24                  So I think what we see is a real 


                                                                   62

 1           commitment from Governor Hochul to all the 

 2           agencies who benefit from a cost-of-living 

 3           adjustment -- certainly the OPWDD providers.  

 4                  I think we all knew going into this 

 5           budget year that it was going to be a 

 6           difficult budget year, there was a sizable 

 7           gap, and I think the inclusion of a 

 8           1.5 percent COLA shows she's committed to 

 9           continuing to support these providers on an 

10           annual basis, as she's done in her previous 

11           two budgets.

12                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you.  

13                  You reference the challenges that 

14           exist within the workforce, and those 

15           challenges have existed for a long time.  We 

16           talk about making sure that we have -- are 

17           providing every opportunity for individuals 

18           to experience an enriched life and that there 

19           is choice involved in, you know, whatever 

20           individuals want to participate in, certain 

21           integrated settings that work best for them.  

22                  But the challenges still exist, and 

23           they exist almost exclusively around a lack 

24           of workforce.  


                                                                   63

 1                  So I've proposed, with a piece of 

 2           legislation, S4127A, a $4,000 wage 

 3           enhancement -- some people would call it a 

 4           wage restoration -- that would go to direct 

 5           support professionals and others.  The 

 6           estimated cost on that is $125 million, which 

 7           is a significant investment.  

 8                  However, it's my position -- and 

 9           others' -- that it's necessary for 

10           recruitment and retention so that individuals 

11           can have choice and be able to not miss 

12           opportunities that might be out there.  

13                  So my question is -- I know that 

14           seemed like a monologue -- do you believe 

15           that a direct support wage enhancement 

16           directly to individuals from the state would 

17           be significantly helpful in meeting our 

18           recruitment and retention goals?  

19                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So let me 

20           start by saying that I think as an agency, 

21           OPWDD is interested in exploring any 

22           opportunity to support the direct support 

23           workforce.  I think we, you know, are in 

24           violent agreement that the DSPs are really 


                                                                   64

 1           the backbone of our system and are really the 

 2           conduit to access to the community for people 

 3           with developmental disabilities.  

 4                  I don't know the details of your 

 5           proposed bill, but I would be happy to make 

 6           sure that our staff are available to talk 

 7           with yours and obviously the Division of the 

 8           Budget.  When referencing, you know, a price 

 9           tag like 125 million, I think it's important 

10           to think about that in the context of the 

11           budget.  And, you know, happy to participate 

12           in those conversations.  

13                  I just don't know the details, and 

14           it's hard for me to sort of opine on it right 

15           here.

16                  SENATOR MANNION:  Understood.  Thank 

17           you so much.  

18                  We had to close 120 state-operated 

19           residential programs throughout the COVID 

20           process.  I know that there is a commitment 

21           to try to reopen those.  Can you provide any 

22           update on about where we are?  And if we 

23           haven't met that goal, what challenges are 

24           really preventing us from getting there?  


                                                                   65

 1                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Sure.  So 

 2           just a small clarification.  We haven't 

 3           actually closed programs.  We have 

 4           temporarily suspended because of 

 5           predominantly workforce challenges -- not 

 6           always workforce challenges; sometimes 

 7           there's capital issues or other reasons why 

 8           we've needed to temporarily suspend a 

 9           property.

10                  We have -- you know, we have committed 

11           to, you know, reopening those programs, 

12           bringing them back online wherever we can.  

13           In the past several years 25 of those 

14           programs have come back online and have 

15           become available to provide services.

16                  And I think the other thing that's 

17           important to note is that in addition to 

18           those 25 coming back online, we have opened 

19           numerous other programs throughout the state.  

20           So in addition to those that have been 

21           temporarily suspended, where we are able to, 

22           because staffing allows it to be so, we have 

23           opened other programs, specialty programs, 

24           programs that are designed to fill gaps 


                                                                   66

 1           within the system, all within the 

 2           state-operated footprint.  

 3                  Last year's budget, as you know, also 

 4           included, you know, several million dollars 

 5           to expand our intensive treatment 

 6           opportunities -- so, you know, our footprint 

 7           in the Finger Lakes area -- and that's in 

 8           process now as well.  So we are committed to 

 9           continuing to open homes and programs where 

10           we can, and to certainly bringing those back 

11           online that have temporarily suspended.

12                  SENATOR MANNION:  Yes, thank you for 

13           mentioning that about the ITO.  That was 

14           going to be my next question, and an update 

15           on that.  As you probably hear, and certainly 

16           I think all of our offices hear about 

17           situations where individuals are 

18           hospitalized, there's no place else -- 

19           there's no place to discharge them.  

20                  So can you provide an update as far as 

21           the status of the ITO, like an expected date 

22           of opening?  And if/when it does open, the 

23           expectation is that it will be at full 

24           capacity?


                                                                   67

 1                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Sure.  It 

 2           is a multiyear project.  So the status is 

 3           that it will open I think sometime within 

 4           '25.  But I can confirm that and get back to 

 5           you.  

 6                  There is currently a capital RFP out 

 7           right now, so we'll be expecting bids to come 

 8           back to us on -- you know, to inform the 

 9           renovation and rehabilitation of the building 

10           in the Finger Lakes area.  So that's where we 

11           are on that project right now.

12                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you.

13                  This could go to a couple of different 

14           commissioners.  But we had talked a little 

15           bit about dual diagnoses throughout this 

16           process here.  And at Upstate we have 

17           11 dual-diagnosis beds.  

18                  Where are we exactly with the status 

19           of those?  And is there, you know, either of 

20           the agencies looking to expand that number 

21           and increase the number of those inpatient 

22           beds throughout the state?

23                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  In terms 

24           of the beds at Upstate, we're very hopeful 


                                                                   68

 1           that the construction and necessary work will 

 2           be done in this year.  I know there have been 

 3           delays, but this has been a real project that 

 4           we're been working very closely together with 

 5           OPWDD on the design and implementation.  

 6                  It will also have a step-down unit.  

 7           Once the unit opens, something similar to 

 8           Our Lady of Victory, OLV's step-down unit.  

 9           So that will also be there as well.  So we're 

10           very hopeful that we'll have that this year.

11                  In terms of expansion, a critical 

12           piece of last year's budget was something 

13           called transitional beds, and critical time 

14           intervention teams that wrap around those 

15           beds for youth, especially.  Those are going 

16           to be opened across the state, probably one 

17           in each Economic Development Region, 10 teams 

18           with those beds of -- 900 beds, about a 

19           hundred dedicated to youth.  

20                  Those will be -- some of those will be 

21           specifically targeted to work with 

22           individuals with dual diagnoses, so we can 

23           get them from emergency room to transitional 

24           beds.  And then there's an adult component 


                                                                   69

 1           which is very similar, from emergency to 

 2           transitional beds, hopefully getting people 

 3           back quickly into the community.  

 4                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  And then 

 5           I would just add, on the OPWDD side, we're 

 6           also working with one of our providers in the 

 7           Hudson Valley to open a statewide resource, a 

 8           children's specialty hospital that's 

 9           designed -- there will be a small number of 

10           beds to serve medically fragile children, and 

11           then also 12 beds for children with 

12           behavioral challenges, primarily individuals 

13           with an autism diagnosis.  

14                  And we're expecting that to open 

15           within 2024.  And it will be located in the 

16           Hudson Valley, but it will be a statewide 

17           resource, working with all of the various 

18           referral sources.  And it's meant to be 

19           short-term intervention.  The primary goal is 

20           return to home, return to family, return to 

21           community.

22                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you for those 

23           answers.  I appreciate it.  

24                  On -- Commissioner Neifeld, you 


                                                                   70

 1           mentioned credentialing for DSPs.  Is there 

 2           currently any mechanism for supporting that 

 3           credentialing with a stipend or anything 

 4           else?  Or is that something that the office 

 5           would consider?

 6                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  

 7           Individuals who participate in the 

 8           credentialing program, we offer that two 

 9           different ways.  One is through a contract 

10           that we have with providers, and providers 

11           can sponsor their staff.  And then we're also 

12           working and partnering with SUNY.  We're on 

13           13 campuses, and we'll be expanding.  

14                  So through both of those programs, 

15           there is a stipend attached to the individual 

16           who goes through the credentialing program.  

17           And as I mentioned in my testimony, for those 

18           who are pursuing it through the community 

19           college system there are also college credits 

20           that are associated with that 

21           microcredential.  So it's been very 

22           successful and has really supported the DSPs 

23           in multiple ways.

24                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you, 


                                                                   71

 1           Commissioner.  Thank you, Madam Chair.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to the 

 3           chair of Alcoholism, Assemblyman Steck.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  Thank you very 

 5           much, Madam Chair.

 6                  Good morning, Dr. Cunningham.  I have 

 7           a few questions to follow up on some of your 

 8           remarks.  

 9                  And you indicated that certain amounts 

10           of funds have been made available from the 

11           Opioid Settlement Fund.  My understanding is 

12           "made available" is different from them 

13           actually being in the hands of providers.  In 

14           other words, you make them available and then 

15           there's a process that the providers have to 

16           go through to actually access the funds.  Is 

17           that correct?

18                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Yes.  

19           I mean, we follow State Finance Law to be 

20           able to, you know, go through that process of 

21           procurements, contracting and awards.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  And of -- let's 

23           say in 2022-2023 the figure you used was that 

24           192 million had been made available.  How 


                                                                   72

 1           much of that money is actually in the hands 

 2           of providers?  

 3                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  So I 

 4           just want to start off by saying that, you 

 5           know, in New York we've made more money 

 6           available more quickly than any other state 

 7           in the country in terms of Opioid Settlement 

 8           funds.  

 9                  Also, we've heard from providers --

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  My problem is I'm 

11           an attorney, and that's nonresponsive to the 

12           question.  

13                  The question is, how much is in the 

14           hands of providers?  Not whether you've made 

15           more available than any other state.

16                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  So 

17           what we heard from providers is that 

18           sustainability was a really big issue.  For 

19           that reason, we have multiyear initiatives.  

20           So we would not expect that all of the 

21           dollars would be in their hands in Year 1.  

22           So that the dollars are disbursed over 

23           several years.  

24                  So all of the dollars are available in 


                                                                   73

 1           terms of contracted and awarded, but we 

 2           wouldn't expect that all of those would be in 

 3           the hands of the providers in Year 1 because 

 4           this is happening over multiple years.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  I understand that.  

 6           But are you saying you just don't know how 

 7           much is actually in the hands of providers?  

 8           You've explained the process, but my question 

 9           was how much is actually in the hands of 

10           providers.

11                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Right.  

12           Well, I mean, I have to say they are in 

13           various stages of the process.  And, you 

14           know, we are right now distributing about 

15           $15 million every quarter, but it really -- 

16           it depends on the multiyear initiatives, and 

17           so some of them go out three years or even 

18           further.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  So let's go now to 

20           the issue of workforce.  We've all 

21           acknowledged the workforce problems.  

22                  Are any of the Opioid Settlement funds 

23           being used to address workforce?  

24                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  


                                                                   74

 1           Absolutely.  So in fiscal year '23 we 

 2           provided $13 million of scholarships, so that 

 3           is for supporting those to become 

 4           credentialed counselors, prevention 

 5           professionals, and for the peer workforce.  

 6                  In addition, we just released a new 

 7           RFP now that is for a leadership institute 

 8           and also for paid internships.  So that's 

 9           from the Opioid Settlement funds.  

10                  In addition, we expect that additional 

11           funding will be available from fiscal year 

12           '24, Opioid Settlement funds to continue to 

13           support the workforce.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  So when we held 

15           hearings on the issue of workforce, the -- 

16           one of the difficulties was that 

17           not-for-profits generally cannot pay as much 

18           as the state can or provide the type of 

19           benefits that the state can to attract people 

20           to this field at higher levels of 

21           professional qualification.

22                  Do you have any plans to address that 

23           issue?  Or are you strictly talking about 

24           giving scholarships to train people who 


                                                                   75

 1           already work there to up their credentials?  

 2                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  So we 

 3           are really supporting the workforce in 

 4           various ways.  So supporting the workforce as 

 5           it currently exists, and then trying to bring 

 6           more people into the addiction field as well.  

 7                  So we're doing that through multiple 

 8           ways.  Some of it is scholarships or paid 

 9           internships; some of it is through raising 

10           Medicaid rates.  So that is certainly a 

11           sustainable way, you know, to increase the 

12           salaries, in addition to the cost-of-living 

13           adjustments.  

14                  So there are many ways that we're 

15           supporting the existing workforce, and then 

16           trying to attract people to the field as 

17           well.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  So the providers 

19           generally complain that the Medicaid 

20           rates are not being increased.  You say that 

21           you're increasing them.  What have you done 

22           specifically to increase the Medicaid rates?  

23                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  So we 

24           have increased the rates that range between 


                                                                   76

 1           5 and 15 percent across the system.  So it 

 2           really depends on the specific type of 

 3           program and the location of the program.  But 

 4           really, across the board, we have increased 

 5           the Medicaid rate.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  So the OASAS 

 7           budget appears to be -- to us, to be 

 8           $179 million less than last year.  And what 

 9           is the reason for that?

10                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  The 

11           majority of the reason for that is actually 

12           the reduction in the Opioid Settlement funds.  

13                  So from these past two years, the 

14           budget, you know, was around 200 million and 

15           now it's dropped to 63 million.  We expected 

16           this.  We knew this would happen in terms of 

17           the Opioid Settlement funds.  And that's part 

18           of the reason why we've had multiyear 

19           initiatives, is to ensure that the services 

20           are not cut.  

21                  So the services won't be cut, so on 

22           the ground programs will not feel a cut.  But 

23           in fact the services will continue through 

24           these multiyear contracts with the fiscal 


                                                                   77

 1           year '23 and '24 Opioid Settlement funds.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  So there are 

 3           budget cuts for ancillary services such as 

 4           transportation, job search, and you had -- 

 5           and that's definitely in the Governor's 

 6           budget.  But you had indicated that you are 

 7           also increasing some of that funding through 

 8           the Opioid Settlement Fund.

 9                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  That's 

10           correct.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  The problem is 

12           that the Opioid Settlement Fund is not 

13           supposed to displace existing state funding.  

14           And when you are saying that the -- you are 

15           using the funds to -- the settlement funds 

16           to -- and at the same time cutting existing 

17           state funding for those type of services, it 

18           certainly suggests that the funds are 

19           displacing existing state funding in those 

20           areas.

21                  Do you agree or disagree?

22                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  The 

23           funds are not displacing or supplanting state 

24           funds.  We are continuing to enhance 


                                                                   78

 1           programs.  So, for example, for 

 2           transportation programs we're continuing to 

 3           enhance them and support them with the Opioid 

 4           Settlement funds.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  But the regular 

 6           state funding for those things is being 

 7           reduced, isn't that correct?

 8                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  We are 

 9           not supplanting funds through Opioid 

10           Settlement dollars.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  But are the 

12           existing state fundings, as per the 

13           Governor's budget for transportation, job 

14           search, those sorts of ancillary services, 

15           being reduced, yes or no?

16                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Not 

17           for transportation, but yes for some of the 

18           job placement functions, yes.  

19                  And those are also available through 

20           other state agencies.  Those are not some of 

21           the core missions in terms of OASAS.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  So the -- I want 

23           to talk a little bit about marijuana, which 

24           you mentioned, and you talked about the 


                                                                   79

 1           impact on youth and so forth.  I want to 

 2           focus a little bit on the impact on adults.  

 3                  So we in my district have had 

 4           instances of people being hospitalized with 

 5           marijuana-induced psychosis, we've had other 

 6           people for whom cannabis use has triggered 

 7           descent into mental illness.  

 8                  You're a physician.  Some physicians 

 9           -- I mean, I'm not a physician, I don't know 

10           the wide variety of opinions in the medical 

11           community.  But as a physician, do you agree 

12           that marijuana-induced psychosis is a real 

13           phenomenon with respect to adults?  

14                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  

15           Certainly, you know, there are effects that 

16           cannabis can have.  So cannabis use has been 

17           increased with some mental health conditions, 

18           including psychosis.  It is not so common, 

19           and it tends to depend on the amount of use 

20           and the amount of THC.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  So you would agree 

22           that the amount of THC is a relevant factor 

23           in whether that occurs or does not occur.

24                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Yes.


                                                                   80

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  And would that 

 2           suggest that perhaps the THC content of 

 3           cannabis at dispensaries should be regulated 

 4           like we regulate the alcohol content of 

 5           alcoholic beverages?

 6                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  I 

 7           mean, you know, that is something that we 

 8           don't do in the office, in our office, right?  

 9           It's a different agency.  But we certainly 

10           are there to provide education and prevention 

11           and treatment when needed.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN STECK:  One question for 

13           the commissioner of Mental Health, and that 

14           is we talk a lot about the behavioral health 

15           centers, community health centers.  We talk a 

16           lot about the Governor's increase in hospital 

17           beds for mental health.  We've also heard 

18           about transitional care, which to my 

19           understanding is very short.  The question 

20           is, is there a commitment to transitional 

21           care that would get people from hospital beds 

22           into independent living that lasts for, say, 

23           90 days or more?  

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  And 


                                                                   81

 1           Commissioner, you'll have to send that to 

 2           the -- that response to the two chairs of 

 3           Assembly Ways and Means and Senate Finance.  

 4                  And there may be other questions, as 

 5           time goes on, that there are not 

 6           opportunities to answer within the time 

 7           frame.  And then we will make sure to 

 8           circulate them to all the members.

 9                  Before I turn it over to the Senate, I 

10           just wanted to mention we've been joined by 

11           the ranker on Disabilities, Assemblywoman 

12           Jodi Giglio.  

13                  Senator?

14                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Yeah, I just want to 

15           announce that we've been joined on our side 

16           by Senators Bill Weber and Patricia 

17           Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick.  

18                  SENATOR BROUK:  Wonderful.  Hello 

19           again, Commissioners.  

20                  So I will use my 10 minutes as -- in 

21           the Mental Health chair position.  First I 

22           want to talk about crisis.  We're doing a lot 

23           in this year's budget and the Executive 

24           proposal around mental health crisis and 


                                                                   82

 1           obviously youth mental health.  You know, we 

 2           started a couple of years ago hearing from 

 3           our Surgeon General that this is the crisis 

 4           of our lifetime.

 5                  I want to thank the commissioners and 

 6           the Governor for understanding that crisis, 

 7           and so much in this Executive proposal 

 8           highlights how we can respond.  Of course 

 9           there's always more we could do, so that's 

10           where we're going to dig in.

11                  And so I'm going to start with some of 

12           the work that's being done around crisis 

13           specifically when it pertains to Daniel's Law 

14           and the Daniel's Law task force.  So I do 

15           want to say just a huge token of gratitude to 

16           Commissioner Cunningham and Commissioner 

17           Sullivan for the earnest work that you both 

18           are putting into that task force and making 

19           sure that it's moving forward.

20                  My question is specifically for 

21           Commissioner Sullivan, though.  In the work 

22           that you're seeing and a lot of the feedback 

23           you've been getting, both from the public 

24           commentary but also from the task force 


                                                                   83

 1           themselves, do you agree that there is an 

 2           urgency to move perhaps even quicker than -- 

 3           I think it's a 2025 deadline for getting this 

 4           task force to completion.  Do you believe 

 5           there's a world in which we could get some of 

 6           these recommendations before then?

 7                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yes, I 

 8           think we're going to be working -- the task 

 9           force has also expressed an interest in that 

10           urgency, as you say.  So we are working as 

11           quickly as we can.  And we're very -- we're 

12           going to try to see if we can do things much 

13           sooner than the December 25 deadline, which 

14           was the initial -- in the legislation.

15                  SENATOR BROUK:  That's great to hear.  

16                  And on that note, I wanted to see if 

17           you were familiar with a case -- a lawsuit 

18           against Washington County, Oregon, and its 

19           911 dispatch center.  So the ACLU announced a 

20           lawsuit essentially around a gentleman who 

21           called a crisis helpline, did not receive the 

22           care he was expecting.  Instead, law 

23           enforcement showed up, he was having suicidal 

24           ideation at the time, this gentleman was.  


                                                                   84

 1           And unfortunately for him, due to that lack 

 2           of an appropriate crisis response, he ended 

 3           up in the hospital for two weeks and even 

 4           serving jail time.

 5                  And again this is from, you know, 

 6           someone who was having suicide ideation, 

 7           called what he believed was a crisis 

 8           helpline.  And here in New York we have 988 

 9           as well.  But unfortunately, the system was 

10           not in place to make sure that a mental 

11           health provider appeared, a social worker 

12           showed up, and instead it was law enforcement 

13           that inherently ended up escalating the 

14           situation.

15                  So as we look at, you know, current -- 

16           you know, current lawsuits and -- I don't 

17           know, would we fear that something like this 

18           might happen here in New York if we aren't 

19           able to put in this statewide framework that 

20           Daniel's Law would be able to put into place?

21                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Well, a 

22           critical piece is going to be what number is 

23           called.  And then, at the point someone calls 

24           for help, how that call is triaged to who.  


                                                                   85

 1           And when you look at the programs across the 

 2           nation, that's the critical piece.  

 3                  So if you call 988 now, I mean, in 

 4           New York less than 0.3 percent of any of the 

 5           calls to 988 -- and last year we had almost 

 6           200,000 calls -- go to 911.  And some of 

 7           those are for medical, some of those are for 

 8           police.  So a very small percentage of 988 

 9           ever translates.  

10                  When you look at some of the models 

11           across the country, like a "who" switch is a 

12           model that everyone is looking at.  Calls go 

13           into a dispatch center and then the dispatch 

14           center determines whether or not that 

15           individual goes for mental health services, 

16           to medical, if they need that, or to 

17           law enforcement.  

18                  So the key point is that dispatch 

19           center.  And I think that's what the task 

20           force is looking at, how do we determine -- 

21           and we want to do it right in New York -- how 

22           do we determine who gets siphoned off to 

23           which services and ensuring that if it's a 

24           behavioral health crisis, the vast, vast 


                                                                   86

 1           majority of times it will go to a behavioral 

 2           health team of some sort, which we're still 

 3           looking at models to develop.

 4                  SENATOR BROUK:  And I would say -- I 

 5           know you've got folks doing this work, but I 

 6           know in North Carolina they also have a 

 7           similar program to CAHOOTS that I hope earns 

 8           the consideration of the task force.

 9                  And so I don't think that there's an 

10           argument at this point.  It sounds like 

11           including from you, commissioner, that we 

12           know we need these types of mental health 

13           providers showing up.  And unfortunately, you 

14           know, we talk about a lawsuit like that, 

15           which is what makes the headline -- but that 

16           also means that that gentleman's life has 

17           been re-traumatized after an initial trauma 

18           as well.  

19                  So I want to pivot to talk about the 

20           youth mental health crisis.  So I want to 

21           commend you, Commissioner, for everything 

22           you've been doing with the school-based 

23           centers.  I think it's a tremendous 

24           investment that we're making that the 


                                                                   87

 1           Governor has put in.

 2                  The thing that I am concerned about is 

 3           in my district we've started our Youth Mental 

 4           Health Advisory Board.  And I know that we 

 5           think that perhaps this has destigmatized 

 6           services that we're giving young people in 

 7           their schools, but there's still a bit of a 

 8           barrier where you may not want to partake in 

 9           this kind of service in school.  

10                  So we've been looking at, based on 

11           their recommendations, other opportunities 

12           for meeting young people where they're at.  

13                  Have you or anyone at OMH looked at 

14           the program in Colorado called "I Matter," 

15           which offers six free tele-mental health -- 

16           or in-person, if they choose -- for any young  

17           person?  We've looked at proposals like that 

18           over the last couple of years.  I have a bill 

19           that would call for a pilot.  

20                  Is that anything that you all have 

21           considered, of really trying to bring more 

22           services to young people?  

23                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  I think 

24           it's interesting to look at that.  And I 


                                                                   88

 1           think we have been talking about it.  We're 

 2           not at a point yet where we have decided 

 3           whether or not to implement it.

 4                  The availability -- we do have the 

 5           availability of 988, of crisis text lines.  

 6           In the schools we are doing a lot of work 

 7           with peers.  So, for example, what we call 

 8           Team Mental Health.  So some of the best ways 

 9           to help kids is to have their peers involved.  

10           And Team Mental Health is something that 

11           we're going to be expanding across the school 

12           system.  And that peer involvement changes 

13           the cultures in schools, but it also 

14           decreases the stigma and youth not wanting 

15           to -- being afraid to call.

16                  We do have easy access through 988, 

17           and that's being talked about in schools, and 

18           "text through 988."  

19                  The tele is still -- we're still 

20           looking at that.

21                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay.  And I would 

22           love to talk about it more, because I think 

23           that it's something -- you know, I think a 

24           lot of times we think that one -- we can 


                                                                   89

 1           just, you know, check the box and one 

 2           program's going to work.  But there are so 

 3           many young people who are in need of help.  

 4                  And, you know, I think of the Healthy 

 5           Minds, Healthy Kids study that just showed 

 6           that one in two New York youth with major 

 7           depressive episodes in the past year did not 

 8           get treatment.  

 9                  And when you think about that on top 

10           of one in five children in New York who need 

11           mental health services, obviously we've got 

12           to kind of throw everything at this problem 

13           that we have.

14                  So I want to use the last couple of 

15           minutes to talk about CPEP.  And so, you 

16           know, the psychiatric emergency departments, 

17           we have one in my area in Rochester, 

18           New York.  And I notice that in the 

19           Executive Budget proposal there is a proposal 

20           to make this extension permanent for CPEPs.  

21                  But I do wonder if we've really looked 

22           critically -- obviously there's a need for 

23           CPEP, there's a need for people with that who 

24           are in crisis and either a danger to 


                                                                   90

 1           themselves or others that need to be in the 

 2           CPEP.  

 3                  But we also see that when youth are 

 4           entering those doors, a lot of times parents 

 5           don't realize that they're made to stay 

 6           there.  

 7                  I heard a story the other day about a 

 8           young person who went to a CPEP, was kept for 

 9           48 hours without their family, and then, you 

10           know, discharged and sent to a 

11           community-based center.  Obviously that 

12           person did not need to go inpatient.  Now 

13           that child's re-traumatized.

14                  So what are we doing to -- of course 

15           if we need to have CPEPs, let's have them -- 

16           but to also assess perhaps they're not the 

17           only answer.  And when I think about what we 

18           did a couple of years ago with the crisis 

19           stabilization centers, perhaps that is 

20           something we need to be looking at 

21           specifically as it comes to youth.

22                  So I'm curious what assessments have 

23           been done around CPEP specifically for youth, 

24           and then what do these crisis stabilization 


                                                                   91

 1           centers look like right now, where are we in 

 2           the process of building those, and are they 

 3           applicable to youth?

 4                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yeah, we 

 5           follow very closely what's happening in the 

 6           CPEPs.  And what we would like the CPEPs to 

 7           be are there for the individuals who need the 

 8           most acute and the most intensive 

 9           intervention.  

10                  So we've been building the rest of the 

11           system, as you appropriately say, to be able 

12           to have youth who maybe don't need that to be 

13           able to go to other services.  So one, for 

14           example, is the stabilization centers.  

15           There's going to be 13 of the intensive 

16           across the state; I think two or three more 

17           opening up this year.  Some of it was 

18           capital.  

19                  Those stabilization centers will have 

20           up to 24 hours; heavily peer and family 

21           advocates present in those stabilization 

22           centers to work with families when they come 

23           in.  And all the stabilization centers will 

24           have both youth and adult services.  So we're 


                                                                   92

 1           very excited about that.

 2                  We also have grown home-based services 

 3           for youth in a big way.  So that basically -- 

 4           it was unfortunate, perhaps, that that 

 5           individual maybe stayed for 48 hours, but 

 6           we're working on now is having home-based 

 7           crisis intervention services, which are 

 8           growing across the state, so they can go 

 9           right home with the youth, with the family, 

10           and work with them for a period of time to 

11           stabilize the family without having to have 

12           inpatient services.  

13                  So you really need a continuum from 

14           the most acute -- unfortunately, CPEPs -- 

15           sometimes people go because we haven't had 

16           the other pieces of the system.  So by 

17           growing the crisis stabilization centers -- 

18           also the certified community behavioral 

19           health centers have outreach programs for 

20           youth and have intensive services for youth.

21                  So as the continuum grows, hopefully 

22           youth and families will have these other 

23           opportunities.  And then only when absolutely 

24           necessary, a CPEP and possibly admission to 


                                                                   93

 1           an inpatient unit.

 2                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  

 3                  So in my last ten seconds, I would 

 4           just ask, you know, as we are moving forward 

 5           these proposals, of course we want to look at 

 6           that moment of crisis, but that continuum of 

 7           care, right.  And so even the 0.3 percent you 

 8           mentioned for 988, we need to do more 

 9           education to make sure people are even 

10           calling 988.

11                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  

12           Absolutely.

13                  SENATOR BROUK:  So thank you so much.

14                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Thank you.  

15                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We've been 

16           joined by Assemblywoman Darling.  

17                  And now we go to 

18           Assemblymember Seawright for 10 minutes, 

19           our Disabilities chair.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you, 

21           Chair Weinstein.  

22                  And good morning, Commissioners 

23           Neifeld, Cunningham and Sullivan.  Thank you 

24           for your testimony today.  With Women's 


                                                                   94

 1           History Month approaching, it's nice to see 

 2           three good women leaders at the table.  

 3                  Commissioner Neifeld, I appreciate 

 4           your leadership, and Greg Roberts and your 

 5           team's work during these very challenging 

 6           times.  New Yorkers with intellectual and 

 7           developmental disabilities have suffered the 

 8           consequences of over a decade of 

 9           disinvestment and are at risk of being cast 

10           aside without protection.  

11                  If I were a doctor assessing our 

12           state's crisis, experienced by 85 percent of 

13           the people with disabilities, supported by 

14           nonprofits, I would discover the following:  

15           The diagnosis of prior agencies hemorrhaging 

16           workers.  They simply cannot serve the 

17           demands of a fragile population in the face 

18           of an annual 30 percent workforce turnover 

19           and agency vacancies in excess of 17 percent.  

20                  The cause, from a historic and 

21           predatory pattern of wage stagnation and 

22           disparity between nonprofit providers and 

23           their state counterparts.  The symptoms, 

24           being rampant and pervasive with direct 


                                                                   95

 1           support professionals fleeing for better and 

 2           less demanding jobs in retail and fast food.

 3                  All of this means that I/DD 

 4           New Yorkers are going without -- without 

 5           daily support, first aid, CPR, administering 

 6           medications, meal preparation, 

 7           transportation, and social, emotional and 

 8           psychological support.  

 9                  It is very concerning to be hearing 

10           from families, advocates and constituents 

11           that OPWDD's regulations are being made 

12           without family input -- specifically, the 

13           Family Support Services Program.  

14           Participants are enduring hardships as 

15           family caregivers are being disqualified to 

16           care for their loved ones despite a shortage 

17           of DSPs in the workforce.  Agencies are 

18           closing these vital programs, and 

19           I/DD New Yorkers are being pushed further 

20           toward exclusion, isolation and 

21           institutionalization, the absolute antithesis 

22           of the promise of the Olmstead decision.

23                  The prognosis is $100.5 million  

24           annually lost by providers; a depleted and 


                                                                   96

 1           anemic system burdened by the increasing rate 

 2           of inflation and cost of living.  Costs are 

 3           rising, and agencies must maintain 

 4           benefits -- maintenance, utilities, food, 

 5           supplies, transportation and insurance.  

 6                  Commissioner Neifeld, in your 

 7           testimony you stated there is no single 

 8           solution to the current workforce crisis.  I 

 9           would suggest that there is a solution, and 

10           that is a financial investment in our 

11           hardworking workers and workforce.  I would 

12           prescribe the treatment of implementing no 

13           less than a 3.2 percent COLA to support 

14           agency rates and restore care coordination 

15           among organizations to offset rising 

16           inflationary costs.  

17                  I strongly reject the 1.5 percent COLA 

18           in the Executive Budget which we've already 

19           heard so much about this morning from my 

20           colleagues.  Abandoning I/DD New Yorkers and 

21           the hardworking professionals who are largely 

22           women of color is negligent.  We need the 

23           lifesaving infusion of a direct support wage 

24           enhancement that will only begin to move the 


                                                                   97

 1           system toward equity with a $4,000 increase 

 2           annually to DSP workers that I'm pleased to 

 3           be sponsoring along with Chair Mannion.  

 4                  The DSPs are a lifeline to people with 

 5           disabilities who need the dignity of their 

 6           independence, and workers need the dignity of 

 7           a fair wage for their skills and care.  The 

 8           system is suffering.  

 9                  I'd like to lead off my questions this 

10           morning to Commissioner Neifeld and start 

11           with my first question.  To close the midyear 

12           budget gap, agencies were to come up with a 

13           savings plan as a follow-up.  I'd like to 

14           know the total amount that OPWDD had to come 

15           up with and what programs were impacted by 

16           this action.

17                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Thank 

18           you.  All state agencies work, you know, 

19           closely with the Division of the Budget 

20           throughout the year to monitor our spending 

21           to understand, you know, what's happening 

22           with our agencies' budgets.  

23                  I don't know the total off the top of 

24           my head related to the midyear, but what I do 


                                                                   98

 1           know is that there were no -- there was no 

 2           impact to the services and supports that we 

 3           provide to people with developmental 

 4           disabilities, so there was no reduction in 

 5           any of our appropriation for services or our 

 6           Medicaid spend or anything like that.  

 7                  Like I said, I can follow up with you 

 8           with sort of the specifics in that total, but 

 9           there was no impact to services for people.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Every year 

11           we talk about the need for a cost-of-living 

12           adjustment to support programs across several 

13           agencies and to maintain services for people.  

14           This year the Governor proposed a 1.5 percent 

15           COLA, which is less than half of the 

16           Consumer Price Index, the measure that has 

17           historically been used.  

18                  Are you concerned that this is not 

19           sufficient to support programs given the 

20           level of inflation?

21                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  I think 

22           that, again, taken in totality, right, with 

23           the last three years of cost-of-living 

24           adjustments, we're looking at close to a 


                                                                   99

 1           10 percent cost-of-living adjustment over the 

 2           first three years that Governor Hochul has 

 3           issued budgets.  And that's, like I said, 

 4           close to $1 billion going directly to 

 5           OPWDD providers in the last three years.  

 6                  In addition, this year -- I mentioned 

 7           in my testimony that we are doing a rate 

 8           rebasing, which means that we're looking at 

 9           the rates that we pay to providers and making 

10           sure that they're more reflective of updated 

11           costs of doing business.  

12                  Currently the rates are based on I 

13           think 2017 cost information, so we'll be 

14           updating that to be much more current, which 

15           will also help to provide additional funds 

16           going to providers, an additional 

17           $350 million on top of the cost-of-living 

18           adjustment that will help offset those 

19           increased costs that you've referenced.  

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Are there 

21           any efforts to increase the wages for DSPs 

22           who work for nonprofit service providers?  

23                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  

24           Everything that we've just talked about -- 


                                                                   100

 1           the cost-of-living adjustments over the last 

 2           three years, the rate rebasing, the 

 3           expectation is that providers are using to go 

 4           towards increasing wages for their direct 

 5           support, their clinical staff, those who are 

 6           working with people with developmental 

 7           disabilities.  

 8                  I think we know that there are other 

 9           costs that providers incur, the costs to run 

10           a program.  But the majority of what they 

11           pay, what their operating budgets are, 

12           consists of personnel, and the majority of 

13           that personnel is direct support staff.  

14                  So we do expect to see a large portion 

15           of those investments go towards staff wages.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  But then 

17           they're going to be cutting somewhere else 

18           and harmed in other areas.

19                  The Executive -- over the past few 

20           years OPWDD employed direct support 

21           professionals and they've seen an increase in 

22           their starting pay, which is about $27 per 

23           hour in New York City, $25 per hour for the 

24           rest of the state, while at the same time the 


                                                                   101

 1           starting rate for a DSP providing the same 

 2           services to the same population, but employed 

 3           by a nonprofit, starts at $17 an hour in 

 4           New York City and 16.48 per hour elsewhere.  

 5                  Can you explain why there is almost a 

 6           50 percent differential pay between the two 

 7           systems?  

 8                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  I think 

 9           it's important to start off with saying that 

10           we value the work of our voluntary providers.  

11           As you mentioned, they're serving, you know, 

12           80 percent or more of people with 

13           developmental disabilities.  And we certainly 

14           value the work that the DSPs who are employed 

15           by those providers do.  

16                  All of the initiatives that I have 

17           talked about this morning -- the 

18           cost-of-living adjustment, the rate rebasing, 

19           our work with the National Alliance for 

20           Direct Support Professionals -- in the past 

21           two years or three years we have spent, you 

22           know, well over a billion dollars in bonuses, 

23           in staff bonuses, both through our ARPA 

24           funding and through the Governor's Healthcare 


                                                                   102

 1           Worker Bonus Program.  All of that has gone 

 2           directly to the voluntary system, directly to 

 3           direct support professionals.  

 4                  So we are working I think every angle 

 5           in trying to support the direct support 

 6           workforce, to provide the funds to providers 

 7           to enhance the wages.  We do not set the 

 8           wages for direct support professionals in the 

 9           voluntary sector.  We are not their employer, 

10           so we don't have the ability that we do 

11           within state operations to set wages.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Let me stop 

13           you there because I'm running out of time and 

14           I have more questions.  

15                  What kind of residential opportunities 

16           will be developed with the funding that's 

17           proposed in the Governor's Executive Budget?

18                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So 

19           everything that we do, all of our services 

20           are person-centered.  We look at the needs of 

21           individuals and develop opportunities based 

22           on those needs.  

23                  As an example, within state operations 

24           we have spent time over the last two years 


                                                                   103

 1           developing what we call adult transitional 

 2           homes, which are meant to help support 

 3           students who are leaving residential schools 

 4           and entering into the OPWDD system, which is 

 5           a difficult transitional time.

 6                  That's just an example of a 

 7           development that we've invested in based on 

 8           need.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  With the 

10           funding support, will there be any reopening 

11           of previous closed group homes that I believe 

12           earlier today, in your testimony, you said 

13           are not permanently closed but temporarily?  

14                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Those 

15           temporary suspensions, we look to reopen 

16           programs that are temporarily suspended when 

17           we have staffing in the region that is 

18           available to support the operations of those 

19           programs.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  On 

21           self-direction.  Although no new 

22           directives have come from -- I'll save this 

23           for the second round.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  I was going to 


                                                                   104

 1           say -- thank you.  To the Senate.  

 2                  I don't know if we explained that when 

 3           the yellow light goes on, that means 

 4           there's -- that's your one-minute warning 

 5           before the bell.

 6                  To the Senate.

 7                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

 8                  Next we'll hear from Senator 

 9           Oberacker, who's a ranker, so he'll get 

10           five minutes.

11                  SENATOR OBERACKER:  Good morning.  

12           Good to see everybody here in Albany.  And 

13           you didn't have to fight through the white 

14           stuff to get here, so that's always a good 

15           day to start here in Albany.

16                  Just some real quick background and 

17           some foundation.  I represent the 51st Senate 

18           District, seven counties, the second-largest 

19           in New York.  Senator Stec and I go back and 

20           forth as to who has the largest, but I will 

21           concede the second-largest.  One of those 

22           counties is Sullivan County.  Sullivan County 

23           has the distinction of a 245 percent higher 

24           rate of overdose than the New York State 


                                                                   105

 1           average -- a distinction, of course, that we 

 2           would like to see changed.  And some ideas 

 3           that, moving forward, I would like to propose 

 4           to see that those would be addressed.  

 5                  And before I go too far, I would like 

 6           to take a moment to say thank you to 

 7           Assemblywoman Aileen Gunther, who has worked 

 8           with me on a lot of these issues.  And it's 

 9           nice to have a partner, if you will, in that 

10           county.

11                  So we've heard a lot of talk today 

12           about mental health, school-based mental 

13           health, school-based health centers.  First 

14           and foremost, I'd like to see us change -- I 

15           think I brought this up last time.  Instead 

16           of saying school-based health or school-based 

17           mental health, I'd like to see us say 

18           school-based or -- school-based wellness 

19           centers.  

20                  I think there's a stigma that goes -- 

21           especially with the mental health side of 

22           things, which I think we can change that 

23           direction there.  It falls under our youth 

24           prevention programs, as 


                                                                   106

 1           Commissioner Cunningham has talked about.  

 2                  In Otsego County I have 11 school- 

 3           based wellness centers in Otsego County.  

 4           What I'm asking is this.  Between the two 

 5           commissioners, couldn't we get together and 

 6           provide both mental wellness and school-based 

 7           situations?  They're already there, the 

 8           framework is there.  You know, and the 

 9           company that I had -- we used to say find 

10           something successful and copy it.  I think we 

11           have a framework there.  I'd like to see us 

12           potentially work together in extending our 

13           mental health side with already school-based 

14           centers that are there.

15                  Along with that, one of the projects 

16           that we've been able to put into Otsego 

17           County is called One Box.  It's a one box 

18           project.  This is actually an AED for 

19           overdose.  I don't know if you're familiar 

20           with this or not.  It was through our lead 

21           counsel in Otsego County.  It contains 

22           Narcan, PPE equipment.  It has a drop-down 

23           screen which is a preloaded 60-second video, 

24           step by step, to help someone address an 


                                                                   107

 1           overdose.  And it's also bilingual.  

 2                  I think this is one of the best and 

 3           most innovative solutions that I've seen in a 

 4           very long time.  And I think this is how our 

 5           settlement monies should be used within that 

 6           district.

 7                  So, Commissioner Cunningham, with some 

 8           of this information would you be willing to 

 9           work with me in my district, and more 

10           appropriately in Sullivan County, to see if 

11           we can't use some of these areas that I've 

12           just talked about and see if we can't 

13           institute those there?

14                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Of 

15           course, Senator Oberacker.  You know, I 

16           appreciate, you know, knowing Sullivan County 

17           with the distinction of having the highest 

18           overdose death rate.  And as you know, I went 

19           to your district at the town hall to really 

20           listen to what community members had to say 

21           about how we can help to better address the 

22           overdose epidemic.  

23                  I totally agree about the settlement 

24           funds.  I mean, as you know, all the local 


                                                                   108

 1           government units also got settlement funds, 

 2           so 64 million in fiscal year '23, and then 

 3           46 million more recently, to do all these 

 4           innovative things.  And so we're very happy 

 5           to support that and also happy to, you know, 

 6           contribute to naloxone, fentanyl test strips, 

 7           xylazine test strips, as tools to be able to 

 8           really address that overdose epidemic.

 9                  SENATOR OBERACKER:  I appreciate that, 

10           and I truly look forward to working with you 

11           in this ensuing legislative year.  

12                  So with that, I will concede back my 

13           34 seconds, Madam Chair.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

15                  We're going to go to Assemblyman 

16           Brown, the ranker, for five minutes.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  Thank you, 

18           Chair.

19                  Before I get started, I just wanted to 

20           make a comment.  I want to say on the record 

21           that I'm not sure combining three 

22           commissioners for three agencies with a 

23           combined appropriation of $9 billion -- 

24           4 percent of the State Budget -- and giving 


                                                                   109

 1           five minutes to ask questions on topics 

 2           involving our mental health and substance 

 3           abuse state of emergency makes a lot of 

 4           sense.

 5                  But with that said, I'm going to use 

 6           my time as best I can.

 7                  First of all, thank you so much for 

 8           your hard work.  First, the public relations 

 9           campaign -- just this morning I saw in my 

10           hotel room on TV commercials from OASAS.  And 

11           also during the Super Bowl, I saw a 

12           commercial.  And I really also appreciated 

13           the bullying commercials.  I think there were 

14           two bullying commercials I saw, sponsored by 

15           the NFL, which I thought was appropriate to 

16           mention. 

17                  But I also want to extend my 

18           invitation to the Co-Occurring Disorder 

19           Conference that we're scheduled for 

20           April 11th.  Both of you were kind enough to 

21           come last year.  I invite all the members of 

22           the committees to come.  It was an 

23           extraordinary day, 250 participants.

24                  With that said, I'd like to focus on a 


                                                                   110

 1           couple of the portions of the budget; namely, 

 2           the $11.4 million cut in the Chemical 

 3           Dependency Outpatient Treatment Support 

 4           Services and Community Services Program.

 5                  And also on the Opioid Stewardship 

 6           funds, which my colleague Chair Steck 

 7           mentioned yesterday he has a bill to audit 

 8           that, the $167 million that's left in that 

 9           account.  And if we can get a full accounting 

10           of what's left in the account, what the money 

11           was spent on over the years, and what the 

12           remaining money will be spent on.

13                  And I also want to bring up the 

14           Co-Occurring Disorder Report that came out of 

15           last year's conference that I forwarded to 

16           you, if you had a chance to look at the 

17           recommendations.  

18                  But my question for this morning, the 

19           New York State Council of Community 

20           Behavioral Healthcare came out with a memo, 

21           and I just want to quote some of it.  It 

22           says:  We have a serious shortage, 21 percent 

23           annually, in waiting lists for services, 

24           including but not limited to 


                                                                   111

 1           medication-assisted treatment, children's 

 2           community services, and outpatient care.

 3                  The memo goes on to say:  Fortunately, 

 4           the Hochul administration began to recoup 

 5           from MCOs; $222 million was returned to OASAS 

 6           and OMH for a two-year period of overpayments 

 7           to plans, with additional funding being 

 8           recouped going forward.

 9                  So with that, I'm sure you saw the 

10           Office of Attorney General came out with a 

11           scathing report on December 7th of last year 

12           making several recommendations, and I wanted 

13           to get your opinion on them.  I'm just going 

14           to read from page 5 of the executive summary.  

15           It says:  "The OAG's survey confirms the need 

16           for regulatory changes, increased enforcement 

17           and significant actions by healthcare plans.  

18           New York should (1) require health plans to 

19           conduct regular audits of their provider 

20           networks to verify compliance with directory 

21           accuracy; (2) mandate robust appointment wait 

22           time standards; (3) require health plans to 

23           analyze and submit to regulators data 

24           regarding key network adequacy indicators; 


                                                                   112

 1           (4) require health plans to improve 

 2           inadequate networks and improve consumer 

 3           complaint mechanisms; and last, explore the 

 4           possibility of a centralized provider 

 5           directory for all health plans."  

 6                  She concludes by saying:  "Health 

 7           plans must also proactively improve their 

 8           practices, including by recruiting more 

 9           mental health providers into the networks, 

10           especially providers of color; increasing 

11           provider reimbursement rates, and decreasing 

12           administrative burdens on providers.  Only a 

13           multifaceted approach can effectively address 

14           the unmet needs for mental health treatment 

15           in New York."

16                  The report does not paint a good 

17           picture in terms of what we're doing to get 

18           people help.  So I ask, have you seen the 

19           report and reviewed the recommendations?  

20           Both commissioners.  

21                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yes, we 

22           have seen the report.  And there's a couple 

23           of very important things that are happening.  

24                  The Department of Financial Services 


                                                                   113

 1           has regulations which are out now, which are 

 2           for a comment period, that would require a 

 3           10-day appointment time.  In other words, 

 4           providers of plans both would have to find a 

 5           mental health or substance abuse appointment 

 6           within 10 days.  

 7                  In addition, if they don't find a 

 8           provider, they would have to pay for 

 9           out-of-network services with no increased 

10           cost to the individual.  So that's one of the 

11           DFS regulations, which comes directly.  

12                  The other is directories have to be 

13           updated and kept current.  And that's also in 

14           response to problems which have existed for 

15           many years in terms of phantom directories 

16           which have not really had providers 

17           available.

18                  So those DFS regulations are currently 

19           out for comment.  So that is one way to begin 

20           to --

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  I think you 

22           can finish the sentence.

23                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  The other 

24           is what's actually in the legislation, this 


                                                                   114

 1           year what the Governor's asking for is 

 2           that -- 

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you, 

 4           Commissioner.  

 5                  So I know Mr. Brown read a lot of that 

 6           information.  So we would hope that after the 

 7           hearing all of you will be able to respond in 

 8           writing, not just to Mr. Brown but to the 

 9           chairs, so we can share with all of the 

10           colleagues who are here.

11                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Be glad 

12           to.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So now we go to 

14           the Senate.

15                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  

16                  Senator Hinchey.

17                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you, 

18           Madam Chair.  

19                  And thank you all for being here and 

20           for the incredibly important work that you 

21           all do.  

22                  I want to start, though, with saying 

23           that Assemblymember Gunther is entirely 

24           right.  Our rural regions are vastly 


                                                                   115

 1           underserved.  I have a constituent who was 16 

 2           years old when she received a TBI, a 

 3           traumatic brain injury, and had to move out 

 4           of the Hudson Valley to Long Island to 

 5           receive services.  She still cannot come 

 6           back.  She actually had to leave the state, 

 7           but that's a different conversation.  

 8                  On December 6th -- Commissioner 

 9           Sullivan now -- on December 6th the Governor 

10           announced millions of dollars in funding to 

11           expand 13 new clinics across the state for 

12           mental health and behavioral health services, 

13           and notably absent was the Mid-Hudson Valley, 

14           because, respectfully, one center in 

15           Westchester does not actually serve the 

16           majority of the Mid-Hudson Valley.

17                  And so my question is knowing that 

18           especially places like Kingston and our area 

19           are in deep need of mental health services, 

20           why were we left out of this expansive list?

21                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  That was 

22           the first list that's coming out.  There's an 

23           additional 13 that are coming out very soon, 

24           for a follow-up.  So there's definitely 


                                                                   116

 1           consideration to increase in the second 

 2           round.

 3                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  We are -- in my 

 4           office particularly, many others are in 

 5           direct conversation with OMH and the 

 6           Executive's office on the need for these 

 7           beds.  Quite frankly, on December 6th I was 

 8           on the phone with the second floor.  And so 

 9           in the first round not being included, is 

10           that a guarantee that at least --

11                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  No, we're 

12           looking at the data, but -- we're looking at 

13           the data to see, yes, but we are looking 

14           again to see where the most need is.  You're 

15           talking about the Certified Community 

16           Behavioral Health Centers, I believe?

17                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Yes.

18                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yes.  So 

19           there's an additional 13 that are coming out, 

20           and they will again be in areas that weren't 

21           in the first 13.

22                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Wonderful.  I look 

23           forward to at least one of those being in or 

24           around the four counties and 3,000 square 


                                                                   117

 1           miles that I represent that we know are in 

 2           desperate need.

 3                  Next question, for Commissioner 

 4           Neifeld.  You mentioned earlier to 

 5           Senator Mannion about the short-term 

 6           intervention program being placed hopefully 

 7           in the Hudson Valley.  My question would be, 

 8           are you looking at -- knowing that the type 

 9           of services that we need are not there, where 

10           in the Hudson Valley are you seeking?  

11                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So that's 

12           a provider that's located in Sullivan County, 

13           but I just want to emphasize that it is a 

14           statewide resource, so it won't be only 

15           serving individuals who live within Sullivan 

16           or within the Hudson Valley.  We'll be 

17           looking based on need at referrals from 

18           school districts, from hospitals, from the 

19           Council on Children and Family, to serve 

20           people there.

21                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Right.  Looking at 

22           our district, though, I mean at least 

23           Sullivan County would be something that would 

24           be close to the constituents that I serve, 


                                                                   118

 1           knowing that we've had many people that have 

 2           had to actively leave.  

 3                  I look forward to continuing the 

 4           conversations to make sure we can have more 

 5           services in our area so people don't have to 

 6           leave to Long Island, let alone leave the 

 7           state altogether.  

 8                  Thank you.  

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So we go to 

10           Assemblywoman Giglio, five minutes, ranker.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Thank you.  

12                  Thank you, Commissioner.  You're a 

13           breath of fresh air.

14                  So my question has to do with the 

15           20 percent loss in DSPs throughout the state 

16           and through the group homes and the 

17           initiatives that OPWDD are working so 

18           diligently on, and how to fill those 

19           positions.

20                  You know, the budget is really the 

21           only way to do that, and the 1.5 percent 

22           COLA, even though there have been significant 

23           increases over the last three years, it's not 

24           enough to make up for the 10 years that there 


                                                                   119

 1           were no increases at all.

 2                  So to catch up to that, I mean, last 

 3           year the one-house bills proposed an 

 4           8 percent increase in both the Assembly and 

 5           the Senate, and I think that it was a 

 6           bipartisan effort to make sure that our 

 7           vulnerable population is taken care of.  And 

 8           that was cut in half.

 9                  So the high expectations, the high 

10           cost of living, the increase in costs for the 

11           group homes and for the not-for-profits that 

12           are taking care of our most vulnerable 

13           population, as my dear friend Rebecca 

14           Seawright brought up, the chair, is an 

15           ongoing problem.  And we're losing DSPs to 

16           other jobs with the minimum wage on the rise, 

17           and the hard work that it is.  And in order 

18           to care for these people, I fear that we're 

19           going back to an institutionalized situation 

20           in a smaller setting in these group homes, 

21           where showers are only at 7 p.m. and people 

22           have to line up to take a shower because 

23           that's the only time that, you know, you have 

24           people there that can actually help them take 


                                                                   120

 1           a shower.

 2                  So that is one question as far as the 

 3           DSPs and your support in getting more 

 4           funding, not only for cost-of-living but for 

 5           wage enhancements, number one.

 6                  And number two is the dispensing of 

 7           medication in the homes where there's a 

 8           shortage of nurses.  What is your 

 9           recommendation to solve that problem within 

10           the group home?

11                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So I 

12           guess I would start with your comment around, 

13           you know, the fear around slipping backwards 

14           to an institutional-like setting.

15                  And I just, you know, want to stress 

16           on the record, right, that that is something 

17           this agency works against every day, in 

18           partnership with our providers and obviously 

19           people with developmental disabilities.  It's 

20           the complete opposite of what this agency was 

21           founded to do, and what we fight against 

22           every day and drives us all.  

23                  And I know --

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  -- the DSPs, 


                                                                   121

 1           the shortage of DSPs.

 2                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  

 3           Absolutely.  No, I understand.  I just wanted 

 4           to, you know, make that statement.

 5                  I think that, you know, I have already 

 6           touched on sort of the cost-of-living 

 7           adjustment, the rate rebasing.  One thing 

 8           that I want to talk about is -- a little bit 

 9           more is the investment in the National 

10           Alliance for Direct Support Professionals, 

11           the microcredentialing, the work with SUNY, 

12           the work we're doing to invest in the 

13           professionalism of DSPs and how it is 

14           equipping them to feel more confident and 

15           better able to perform their duties.  It does 

16           come with a stipend.  

17                  I mentioned the many bonus rounds that 

18           we have put forward as well.  Every 

19           opportunity that we have to invest dollars 

20           into the DSPs, we are doing.

21                  We're also launching, I referenced in 

22           my testimony, a very large media campaign, 

23           $30 million media campaign.  It's not an 

24           OPWDD-branded campaign, it's for the benefit 


                                                                   122

 1           of the voluntary providers as well, to really 

 2           tell the story of what a DSP does, what does 

 3           this work look like, how important these 

 4           roles are, and direct traffic of people who 

 5           are looking for jobs directly to our 

 6           voluntary providers.  That will be, you know, 

 7           traditional media, social media.  Everywhere 

 8           people are out there talking about what they 

 9           do, we'll be there.  So we see the ads for 

10           OASAS as well, and we want to make sure that 

11           we're, you know, well represented.

12                  Your question related to medication 

13           administration within certified settings.  So 

14           within certified group homes, DSPs are able, 

15           under the supervision of a nurse, to 

16           administer medication.  I don't think we -- 

17           we don't really experience a challenge with 

18           medication administration in our certified 

19           settings.

20                  I do want to say we have the 

21           Article VII -- you know, the legislation that 

22           the Governor put forward to allow DSPs to do 

23           simple nursing tasks like medication 

24           administration in a non-certified setting -- 


                                                                   123

 1           in people's homes where they live 

 2           independently, which we think is very 

 3           important, and it is an equity issue for 

 4           people with disabilities who could live 

 5           independently but can't because there are not 

 6           enough nurses to be able to come to their 

 7           home once a day and administer medication.  

 8                  It's important to allow a DSP to be 

 9           able to do that so someone can live maximally 

10           independent.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Thank you.  And 

12           then my next question would be educators for 

13           people with unique abilities.  You know, the 

14           Department of Labor, I discussed with the 

15           commissioner last week about using the career 

16           opportunity centers for certain training 

17           programs in order to get people employed that 

18           are I/DD.

19                  So have you spoken to the commissioner 

20           of Labor about that, and partnering and 

21           making sure that these career opportunity 

22           centers are being fully utilized not only for 

23           people on unemployment but for people with 

24           intellectual and developmental disabilities?


                                                                   124

 1                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So just 

 2           in the short time I have, the answer is yes, 

 3           we work very closely with the Department of 

 4           Labor, but we do very many other things, and 

 5           we can make sure to share that with you in 

 6           writing, what we do for people with 

 7           developmental disabilities to find 

 8           employment.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Thank you.  

10                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

11                  To the Senate.

12                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  

13                  Now we'll hear from Senator Weber, the 

14           ranker on the Committee on Disabilities.

15                  SENATOR WEBER:  Thank you, 

16           Madam Chair.  

17                  And thank you all, Commissioners, for 

18           being here today.

19                  You know, I represent Rockland County, 

20           where we have a lot of direct service 

21           providers who are concerned, as mentioned 

22           earlier by my colleagues, with retaining and 

23           attracting staff.  You know, it's very costly 

24           to live in the Lower Hudson Valley, and 


                                                                   125

 1           they're really struggling to fill these 

 2           positions.  

 3                  And I've cosponsored, along with 

 4           Senator Mannion's bill, the wage enhancement 

 5           bill.  I know you had mentioned, 

 6           Commissioner, that you'll take a look at 

 7           that.  And I think it's something that really 

 8           seriously needs to be looked at.  You know, 

 9           yes, the cost is expensive, right, 

10           $125 million by an estimate, but, you know, 

11           in Albany here we seem to throw billions 

12           around without even thinking collectively.  

13                  And, you know, I think this is -- this 

14           is -- I consider these workers essential 

15           workers providing essential services.  Right?  

16           They do amazing work, and they're struggling 

17           and they're not able to provide all the 

18           services that they need to and could be able 

19           to provide if they were able to have these 

20           workers stay in their positions.

21                  So I'm hopeful and thankful that 

22           you'll take a look at that and seriously 

23           consider it, because I consider it something 

24           extremely important.  Again, the COLA 


                                                                   126

 1           increases over the last number of years have 

 2           been great but, again, it's nowhere near 

 3           where it should be to provide these workers 

 4           with a livable wage, especially in the areas 

 5           where I represent.

 6                  So thank you for at least 

 7           acknowledging to take a look at that as well.

 8                  I do have one specific question that I 

 9           kind of wanted to focus on, so -- you know, 

10           individuals that use self-direction have to 

11           have their budgets approved by FIs, right?  

12           And the FIs that approve budgets are not 

13           approving requests for expenditures on 

14           community classes.  And these classes are 

15           open to the public, but if individuals with 

16           developmental disabilities want to use their 

17           budgeting to pay for classes, these requests 

18           seem to be or are being denied.

19                  Why should the developmentally 

20           disabled not be afforded the same freedom to 

21           choose the classes that would benefit them as 

22           their non-developmentally disabled 

23           counterparts?  And, you know, if the family 

24           or the individuals feel that they will 


                                                                   127

 1           benefit from these classes, why the pressure 

 2           on the FIs to disallow these?  

 3                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Thank you 

 4           for the question.  It's an area that we're 

 5           spending a lot of time at the agency focusing 

 6           on, and wanting to make sure that we're 

 7           bringing a consistent understanding to all of 

 8           our FIs.  

 9                  First I want to say that we work with 

10           over 90 FIs across the state, so ensuring 

11           consistency, making sure that each FI hears 

12           the same message and is administering the 

13           program in the same way is a substantial 

14           effort, as you can imagine.

15                  With regard to community classes, the 

16           whole premise of self-direction is for people 

17           to have choice.  Right?  They get to choose 

18           the services, what they pay for those 

19           services, how they access those services, but 

20           within parameters.  It's not only state 

21           dollars that are involved in the 

22           self-direction program, there are also 

23           Medicaid dollars.  Every Medicaid dollar that 

24           we spend in OPWDD is subject to an agreement 


                                                                   128

 1           with the federal government, through our HCBS 

 2           waiver.  

 3                  So the parameters around community 

 4           classes are very clear.  They cannot be used 

 5           where another Medicaid service could provide 

 6           that, so it can't look like a day program.  

 7           And it needs to be integrated and open to the 

 8           community.  So anybody in the community, you 

 9           or I or anybody else who's interested in 

10           taking that class, must be able to.  It must 

11           be open to all of us, marketed to all of us, 

12           not just to people with developmental 

13           disabilities.  

14                  There are some other small parameters, 

15           but within those parameters people have 

16           choice.

17                  So what we're doing is, like I said, 

18           working really hard with FIs to make sure 

19           that there is consistent understanding.  

20           We're working to institute a process where 

21           families -- where FIs will have an appeal 

22           process.  So if an individual who's 

23           self-directing, or a family, feels an FI made 

24           the wrong decision, they can bring an appeal.  


                                                                   129

 1           That will be heard.  

 2                  Also we're also going to be working 

 3           with the FIs to create communities of 

 4           practice across the state and regionally, so 

 5           that they can be looking at these community 

 6           classes, understanding what they're offering, 

 7           and within the context of the parameters on 

 8           the community class program.  

 9                  But there has not been a change in the 

10           way we administer this program.  And so what 

11           we're doing really is to make sure that 

12           there's consistent understanding.

13                  SENATOR WEBER:  Right.  And I 

14           appreciate that.  And I think having that 

15           consistency and understanding I think will go 

16           a long way in hopefully moving that forward.  

17           So thank you.

18                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Thank 

19           you.

20                  SENATOR WEBER:  And I'll direct my 

21           questions at the next round.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  We 

23           go to Assemblyman Ra, the ranker on Ways and 

24           Means.


                                                                   130

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.  

 2                  Good morning, Commissioners.  

 3                  So just starting with OPWDD and, you 

 4           know, budget provisions, we've done COLAs the 

 5           last couple of years.  There's a proposal in 

 6           this budget.  One of the things myself and I 

 7           know a lot of my colleagues get calls about 

 8           in the aftermath of the budget is they hear 

 9           about a COLA and then they wonder when they 

10           will actually see it.  

11                  So what's the status of the COLA we 

12           did in the last budget with regard to all the 

13           eligible workers having seen it?  I would 

14           hope at this point -- and assuming that this 

15           COLA that is proposed in this budget goes 

16           forward, when would those workers be able to 

17           anticipate seeing it actually in their wages?

18                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So the 

19           cost-of-living adjustment is something that 

20           adjusts the reimbursement rate for providers.  

21           It doesn't go directly to employees.  

22           Providers we encourage -- and I think all 

23           providers do invest some of the COLA in the 

24           wages.  We don't obviously control when that 


                                                                   131

 1           action happens.  

 2                  The cost-of-living adjustment was 

 3           received by the providers.  It's retroactive 

 4           to the effective date.  So the 4 percent 

 5           which you're referring to was seen by the 

 6           providers in their reimbursement rates in 

 7           September, but it went retroactive to 

 8           April 1st.  When the providers made 

 9           adjustments to wages based on that 4 percent 

10           COLA, I can't speak to.  That's an individual 

11           determination by each provider.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.

13                  Regarding the Executive Budget 

14           proposal, which includes provisions related 

15           to substance use treatment and mental health 

16           treatment, including requiring the minimum 

17           reimbursement at the Medicaid rate for those 

18           services, and increasing penalties for 

19           insurers that don't comply with federal 

20           parity laws, are these proposals related to 

21           the data gathered from the reports that we 

22           require under the Insurance Law?

23                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  The data 

24           was worked on with the Department of 


                                                                   132

 1           Financial Services, so I can't say if it's 

 2           exactly from the Insurance Law, but the data 

 3           has been confirmed with the Department of 

 4           Financial Services.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Okay.  And 

 6           regarding -- in last year's budget, in the 

 7           Health and Mental Hygiene budget, we included 

 8           provisions enacting behavioral health 

 9           insurance reforms, including reimbursement 

10           for school-based mental health clinics, 

11           removing prior authorization for opioid 

12           antagonists, and creating a provider network 

13           access standard.

14                  How do those proposals from last year 

15           relate to this year's proposals around 

16           substance use treatment and mental health 

17           treatment parity?

18                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Last year 

19           the funding was specific for school-based.  

20           What is being proposed this year is that any 

21           mental health or substance use service in one 

22           of our licensed clinics, that the commercial 

23           payers would pay for any of those services at 

24           the Medicaid rate.  So it's a large -- it's 


                                                                   133

 1           an expansion.  Last year was just for the 

 2           school-based clinics.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Okay.  And can you 

 4           provide any insight on how that has worked, 

 5           what we did last year in the budget and the 

 6           implementation of that?

 7                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  It became 

 8           effective January 1st in terms of the 

 9           increased commercial rates.  And so we're in 

10           the process of working very, very closely -- 

11           there are some snags, but everybody's working 

12           very hard to make sure that the money flows 

13           the way it should.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Okay.  And one other 

15           thing for the Office of Mental Health.  You 

16           know, we have a proposed 4 percent increase 

17           on the Joseph P. Dwyer Program.  How is it 

18           determined how that is disbursed to the 

19           counties around the state?

20                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Every 

21           county has a Joseph Dwyer program.  It's 

22           disbursed pretty much on the population of 

23           veterans in those areas.

24                  Now, some Joseph P. Dwyer programs 


                                                                   134

 1           existed already; others are startups.  So 

 2           some of the startup ones got a little more 

 3           money to start the program.  But it's really 

 4           based on the population of veterans that they 

 5           serve.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.

 7                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay, next up we will 

 8           have Senator Salazar.

 9                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Thank you.  

10                  And thank you for your testimony.

11                  For Dr. Sullivan, my office has 

12           frequent correspondence with incarcerated 

13           individuals in DOCCS prisons across the 

14           state.  We often hear and see, in visiting 

15           facilities as well, incarcerated individuals 

16           not getting sufficient access to mental 

17           health care while in prison, especially if 

18           they are sent to the Special Housing Unit.

19                  And I understand, through speaking 

20           with OMH providers during facility visits, 

21           that OMH staffing levels in prisons is 

22           currently a serious challenge for providing 

23           adequate care.

24                  How is OMH -- or this budget -- 


                                                                   135

 1           assuring that incarcerated individuals on OMH 

 2           caseloads are receiving the care that they 

 3           need, especially in moments of mental health 

 4           crisis or upon requesting that care while 

 5           they're incarcerated?

 6                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yeah, this 

 7           is monitored, you know, very closely.  And 

 8           all the assessments that are needed in terms 

 9           of the solitary confinement and the RRUs, 

10           et cetera, all those assessments are being 

11           done.  And we've been able to recruit enough 

12           staff to make sure that the assessments on 

13           the call-outs for individual therapy, that 

14           those are all done. 

15                  The one thing that has been affected 

16           is our ability to do some of the group 

17           programming because of the shortage of staff.  

18           So we clearly prioritize.

19                  One of the things we're working on is 

20           to see how much of the programming could be 

21           done by tele in some way.  And if we can work 

22           that out with some of the prisons, depending, 

23           that might be able to expand that in terms of 

24           the workforce.  


                                                                   136

 1                  We already do, in terms of treatment, 

 2           a lot of telehealth in the prison system, 

 3           both psychiatrists, social workers, 

 4           et cetera -- again, because of some of the 

 5           more remote prisons needing that assistance.  

 6           So we work very hard to recruit.  All the 

 7           absolutely necessary assessments are things 

 8           we have been able to recruit for and make 

 9           sure that they get done.

10                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Thank you.

11                  And, you know, it's encouraging to 

12           see -- first of all, it's encouraging to hear 

13           that, but additionally to see the 

14           Executive Budget's about $24 million 

15           investment, partly in criminal justice 

16           system-related initiatives.  Will any of that 

17           funding go specifically to improving the 

18           mental health care or programming for 

19           individuals who are currently incarcerated, 

20           not only -- even though it's very 

21           important -- folks in transitional housing or 

22           after release?

23                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  That 

24           funding is specifically for individuals who 


                                                                   137

 1           are either leaving the prisons or to prevent 

 2           them from getting into the prisons.  So that 

 3           particular bucket of funding is not going 

 4           directly to the prison services.

 5                  SENATOR SALAZAR:  Got it.  Thank you.

 6                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Thank you.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to the 

 8           ranker on the Mental Health Committee, 

 9           Assemblyman Gandolfo.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN GANDOLFO:  Thank you, 

11           Chair Weinstein, and thank you all for your 

12           testimony today.

13                  My questions are going to be directed 

14           at you, Dr. Sullivan, regarding the mental 

15           health clinics in schools initiative here.

16                  Now, I know we've spoken a little bit 

17           about -- it's startup money.  Now, with 

18           schools applying to try to put in their own 

19           mental health clinic, would they have to 

20           demonstrate any further financial means to 

21           operate it and keep up with the capital 

22           costs?

23                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  No.  

24           Basically the -- we have somewhat increased 


                                                                   138

 1           rates, so it's $25,000 for schools that are 

 2           financially in very good shape, and $45,000 

 3           for startups.  So all the schools would have 

 4           to do is tell us that they're more in the 

 5           distressed range to get the 45,000.  

 6                  It's a partnership with 

 7           community-based providers, so there really is 

 8           very little capital cost.  It's a certain 

 9           amount -- it's just a certain amount of 

10           space.  And then the provider does all the 

11           billing, all that work for the school.

12                  The increased rate also enables the 

13           school-based provider to do a little more 

14           counseling with teachers, a little more work 

15           with parents, things that are not exactly 

16           billable all the time.  So I think in overall 

17           they will be able to apply, as I said before, 

18           on a rotating basis.  So any school can call 

19           us or call their local provider, and we will 

20           help set up a school-based clinic.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN GANDOLFO:  Okay.  And I 

22           guess I should have led with this.  What 

23           would constitute a clinic on a school?  It 

24           would be staffed with a social worker and a 


                                                                   139

 1           psychologist?  What exactly would --

 2                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  It's 

 3           usually staffed by a licensed professional, 

 4           so it could be either a social worker or a 

 5           psychologist.  Depending upon the need in the 

 6           school, it could be they're one day a week, 

 7           it could be they're three days a week.  Those 

 8           things are determined between the provider 

 9           and the need and size of the school.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN GANDOLFO:  Okay.  And what 

11           about ongoing costs of keeping it staffed 

12           itself?  I know some of my school 

13           districts -- one actually just opened what 

14           they call a wellness center.  It came out 

15           great.  It's a little break room for the kids 

16           that has a social worker and a psychologist 

17           staffed there.  They're a little worried, 

18           with some of the school aid numbers that come 

19           out, that they won't be able to continue to 

20           provide the service and keep those offices 

21           staffed.  

22                  Is there any plan in the future to 

23           open a pot of funding so that they can 

24           actually hire the people and keep them there?


                                                                   140

 1                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  A critical 

 2           piece is the reimbursement, so two things 

 3           were done.  One is the Medicaid rate was 

 4           increased.  And then, number two, commercial 

 5           payers -- and this was an issue -- commercial 

 6           payers were not paying for school-based 

 7           services.  

 8                  So in last year's budget it was 

 9           mandated that they had to pay for 

10           school-based services.  So between the 

11           increased Medicaid rate and the fact that the 

12           commercial payers have to pay the increased 

13           Medicaid rate, that makes basically the 

14           services that are provided financially 

15           viable.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN GANDOLFO:  Okay, great, 

17           thank you.

18                  And just moving on a little bit, I 

19           know last year we announced the big 

20           $1 billion investment in mental health.  I 

21           know it's a multiyear investment.  Over the 

22           first year, are there any data points showing 

23           any movement or any improvement in certain 

24           areas?  Can you talk about that a little bit?  


                                                                   141

 1                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  First of 

 2           all, the money is -- I just want to say the 

 3           money is out.  So basically by April 1st the 

 4           42 requests for proposals, which involved all 

 5           that funding, will be out before the end of 

 6           this budget year.  We have 34 of them already 

 7           out.

 8                  In terms of outcomes, it takes a 

 9           little time to see the outcomes.  But 

10           something which started early and then was 

11           enhanced was the Safe Option Support Teams in 

12           New York City, in the subways, in terms of 

13           housing homeless individuals.  

14                  And just one critical outcome of that, 

15           so far 300 individuals have been placed in 

16           permanent housing and are staying in 

17           permanent housing.  And these are individuals 

18           who often had spent years in the subways in 

19           New York City.  That program is being 

20           expanded across the state.  

21                  So in all the programs we're really 

22           looking at financial but also clinical 

23           outcomes, and we will expand them based on 

24           the basis of those clinical outcomes.  But 


                                                                   142

 1           all these new dollars have clinical outcomes 

 2           associated with them.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN GANDOLFO:  All right, 

 4           great.  I think that's all I have, so thank 

 5           you all for your time.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

 7                  To the Senate.

 8                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  

 9                  We'll now hear from my partner in the 

10           Mental Health Committee, Ranking Member 

11           Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick.

12                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

13           you, Chair.

14                  Thank you, everybody, for being here 

15           today.

16                  I have a lot of questions that of 

17           course can't be answered in five minutes, but 

18           I do want to thank you for what you're doing.  

19           We've heard testimony today from other 

20           members of the Legislature regarding the 

21           concern over the COLA increase and how it's 

22           not quite going to do what we want it to, in 

23           the sense that DSPs are so valued for taking 

24           care of our most vulnerable population, and I 


                                                                   143

 1           do have concerns over the fact that minimum 

 2           wage is outpowering the wages that we're 

 3           paying our DSPs.  

 4                  So I thank you for pushing for 

 5           correcting that.

 6                  The 20 percent vacancy rate has been 

 7           mentioned today.  And our annual turnover, 

 8           I've heard, is about a third.  And I wonder 

 9           if failing to increase our COLA increase, the 

10           failure to keep up with inflation, is going 

11           to address that issue sufficiently.  

12                  However, I would like to ask some 

13           questions more focused on the school-based 

14           mental health clinics.  I believe the 

15           testimony was that 1200 school-based mental 

16           health clinics will be started, there will be 

17           startup funds associated, allocated to these 

18           clinics.  

19                  My question, though, is do schools 

20           have to apply to have this mental health 

21           clinic established?  And if they don't apply, 

22           does that mean that they get no mental health 

23           assistance?  

24                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  There's 


                                                                   144

 1           1200 that actually exist.  So we have 1200 

 2           now, and we're planning on increasing that 

 3           number.

 4                  The school has to work with us.  So 

 5           basically we are talking to the schools.  I 

 6           personally talked with all the district 

 7           superintendents.  We want them to come to us.  

 8           We also have our providers talking with the 

 9           schools.  So it has to be a partnership.  The 

10           schools have to work with us, but we're doing 

11           a lot of outreach to the schools.  Most of 

12           the schools are very interested, they just 

13           are very busy.  But we are working with them, 

14           and we're getting this done.  

15                  So we're expecting another 200 we 

16           could hopefully open this year, and then keep 

17           a rolling phenomenon and keep opening them 

18           over time.  Once open, they stay open and 

19           they do a lot of very good work.  But it will 

20           be a rolling application, so a school can 

21           come to us any time of the year and we will 

22           work with them.  Or we are also going to 

23           schools.

24                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Okay.  


                                                                   145

 1           And as was stated by my colleagues, the 

 2           funding going forward in the future will have 

 3           to be there to maintain these clinics because 

 4           if you're just giving them startup costs, 

 5           that will have to be something that we 

 6           continue to focus on.

 7                  I believe, Dr. Sullivan, your 

 8           statement -- your testimony that there was a 

 9           budget proposal -- the budget proposes 

10           legislation to control the addictive 

11           algorithms aimed at youth and increased 

12           parental controls over social media access.  

13                  And in a world where cyberbullying is 

14           increasing, depression and anxiety is fueled 

15           by social media, and as the mom of three 

16           girls -- and of course I had my son too, but 

17           I do feel that women are more susceptible, 

18           young teenage women are horribly susceptible 

19           to the depression and anxiety that is fueled 

20           by social media.  

21                  So my question specifically is, are we 

22           doing enough to address this crisis?  And 

23           what more would you suggest that we do as a 

24           legislative body to address this crisis?  I'm 


                                                                   146

 1           not sure about what specific legislation you 

 2           were referring to, Dr. Sullivan, so I'd like 

 3           to hear your thoughts.

 4                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yeah, the 

 5           legislation does a couple of things.  It 

 6           gives increased parental control over the 

 7           time youth are on social media, the ability 

 8           to oversee any kind of consent for what youth 

 9           are seeing and what they see, and also 

10           prohibits the use of these -- I'm not the 

11           tech person, but these algorithms that just 

12           keep coming and pushing certain information.  

13                  So I think it really is a very strong 

14           beginning of dealing with the problems.

15                  The other thing which we will be doing 

16           is developing guides for parents and for 

17           youth about social media with the schools.  

18           So it's a joint effort also to educate 

19           parents on how to use it.  So there's the 

20           legislation and then the education.  And I 

21           think it's beginning -- the surgeon general 

22           report really pointed out how serious this 

23           issue is.  But this I think is a very strong 

24           beginning to get some control over the issue 


                                                                   147

 1           with the social media.

 2                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

 3           you.  

 4                  And I only have a short period of time 

 5           left, but one of the things that I wanted to 

 6           know if it's been considered is other states 

 7           have had success with deeming a person that 

 8           shows up at a hospital from an overdose as a 

 9           mental health crisis that needs addressing, 

10           possibly hospitalization and assistance.  

11                  And I'm wondering if you've examined 

12           what has been happening in other states and 

13           if there's a possibility we could consider 

14           that in New York.  And I realize I'm out of 

15           time, but I hope you'll consider that.

16                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  

17           Absolutely.

18                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

19           you.  

20                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

21                  We go to Assemblyman Epstein, three 

22           minutes.  

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:  Thank you, 

24           Chair.


                                                                   148

 1                  And thank you all for taking the time 

 2           to be with us today.

 3                  Dr. Sullivan, just on the mentoring 

 4           program, are you working with the New York 

 5           State Mentoring Department, there's a state 

 6           agency that focuses on mentoring in New York 

 7           State?

 8                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  We've been 

 9           doing some work, I think, but I'm not as 

10           familiar with it as I would like to be.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:  I'm a little 

12           worried that we have a full state agency 

13           that's set up to do mentoring around the 

14           state, and there's lack of coordination.  

15           Like everyone lives in their own bubble, and 

16           the reality is then no one knows what anyone 

17           else is doing.  

18                  And, you know, there's a lot -- it's 

19           really important that we coordinate and work 

20           together so -- and so we can then 

21           comprehensively provide resources to 

22           mentoring in a much more comprehensive way.

23                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  It would 

24           definitely work on that, thank you.  That's a 


                                                                   149

 1           great suggestion.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:  I appreciate 

 3           that.

 4                  And last year we talked a lot about 

 5           the issues around mental health issues in 

 6           higher education and that each campus was 

 7           really on their own, not getting support from 

 8           OMH.  I'm wondering what you've done over the 

 9           last year to kind of support those campuses, 

10           provide written guidance to them.  We'd asked 

11           for follow-up but I hadn't gotten any of that 

12           for my office.

13                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  We've been 

14           working very closely with SUNY, and at this 

15           point in time in terms of 988 and spreading 

16           that across the SUNY system.

17                  We also have a resource directory 

18           that's on the website for all the SUNY 

19           colleges of where there's mental health 

20           services nearby.  

21                  And we are doing a lot of mental 

22           health first aid, both for the teachers and 

23           for the students across the SUNY system.  Now 

24           we're going to be expanding that to the other 


                                                                   150

 1           college systems.  But we've started with 

 2           SUNY.  

 3                  We're also --

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:  So it would be 

 5           great to share that with us, because we'd 

 6           love to be able to add it to our schools, 

 7           some of our CUNYs and private colleges as 

 8           well.  If there's a way that your staff could 

 9           direct us to where on the website it is, that 

10           would be really helpful.

11                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yes.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:  I wanted to -- 

13           just to focus on -- Commissioner Neifeld, I 

14           just wanted to focus on intake and kind of 

15           where the intake process is.  You know, we've 

16           heard a lot from people who are going through 

17           the system but the complications of getting 

18           the services that they need -- we've talked 

19           about better coordination and effort.  I'm 

20           wondering where things are in relationship to 

21           that.

22                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Sure.  We 

23           have a pretty detailed -- on our website, and 

24           certainly, you know, through our care 


                                                                   151

 1           coordination, for how families can access our 

 2           system for the first time.  It's called the 

 3           Front Door.  

 4                  One thing we just did actually was 

 5           posted on our website new videos that really 

 6           are tutorials for families on how to go 

 7           through the Front Door process, working with 

 8           their care coordination organization and with 

 9           OPWDD.  It's also in Spanish and in Mandarin.  

10           So we're excited about that.

11                  So I know we're -- there's not a lot 

12           of time to walk you through that, but I 

13           think, you know, our program is 

14           intentionally -- I wouldn't say hard to 

15           access, but our program is intentionally 

16           accessed through assessments, through, 

17           you know, making sure people are eligible for 

18           a reason.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN EPSTEIN:  I'll look at 

20           that, and maybe I'll follow up with your 

21           staff.

22                  And Dr. Sullivan, one more question 

23           about beds online for long-term mental health 

24           beds.  We've heard that there's -- you know, 


                                                                   152

 1           we're allocating more money in the budget.  

 2           Are those beds online?  If not, kind of when 

 3           is the timeline to get those beds online?  

 4                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  All the 

 5           150 state hospital beds from last year -- 

 6           state hospital beds are open.

 7                  The 200 additional beds this year, 

 8           we're hoping to open approximately 75 of 

 9           those this year, and then the rest the 

10           following year.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

12                  Senate?

13                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

14                  Before our next question, I just want 

15           to recognize Senator Scarcella-Spanton has 

16           joined us.  Welcome.

17                  And next for questioning, 

18           Senator Webb.

19                  SENATOR WEBB:  Thank you, 

20           Commissioners, for being here. 

21                  So I just have two questions due to 

22           the amount of time.  I know we've been 

23           talking a lot about COLA, and I recently 

24           connected with one of the providers in my 


                                                                   153

 1           district -- in Cortland, specifically -- and 

 2           they're down 35 percent for DSPs.  And I know 

 3           that, you know, advocates are seeking -- we 

 4           are as well -- a modest 3.2 percent COLA, as 

 5           well as a guaranteed COLA.  I mean, we talked 

 6           about this last year as well.

 7                  And so my question to all of you is, 

 8           do you believe a 1.5 percent COLA is adequate 

 9           to address the workforce issues that 

10           providers face in trying to hire and retain 

11           staff?  So that's one question.

12                  And then my second question deals 

13           specifically with challenges we're seeing 

14           around overdoses.  So I know that the amount 

15           of overdoses we've been seeing just in the 

16           last four years have beyond quadrupled as it 

17           pertains to specifically fentanyl overdose 

18           deaths.

19                  And so I was hoping that you can 

20           expand upon why do you believe these 

21           overdoses have increased at such alarming 

22           rates?  And what's the plan to stop that 

23           trend?

24                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  I can go 


                                                                   154

 1           first on the workforce.

 2                  I guess I would just sort of emphasize 

 3           what I said in my testimony, that I don't 

 4           believe that there is a single solution to 

 5           affecting the workforce crisis.  I think, 

 6           through the things that I talked about -- the 

 7           cost-of-living adjustment this year but also 

 8           the previous two years, the rebasing that 

 9           we're doing on our rates, the media campaign, 

10           the microcredentialing and credentialing and 

11           stipends and bonuses that we're providing to 

12           staff and to our voluntary sector -- all of 

13           that in totality I believe, I believe that we 

14           are doing everything that we can as an agency 

15           to impact the workforce crisis.

16                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  In 

17           terms of overdose deaths, I mean, what you 

18           described is definitely what's happening 

19           across the state and what's happening across 

20           this country.

21                  Really a lot of the reason for this is 

22           because of the toxic drug supply.  So we know 

23           that fentanyl is really driving overdose 

24           deaths, xylazine is also contributing, and 


                                                                   155

 1           who knows what's next?  What we're really 

 2           focusing on is, you know, evidence-based harm 

 3           reduction efforts and expanding treatment.

 4                  So in terms of harm reduction, 

 5           expanding naloxone kits and other tools like 

 6           fentanyl test strips and xylazine test strips 

 7           so that people can then detect what's in 

 8           their substance if they're going to use a 

 9           substance and then change their behaviors 

10           accordingly.

11                  And then also our focus is on 

12           expanding access to evidence-based treatment, 

13           which we know reduces the risk of overdose by 

14           50 percent, particularly methadone and 

15           buprenorphine, and really taking these 

16           services and bringing them to the communities 

17           that are at the highest risk.  So that 

18           includes mobile medication units, bringing 

19           methadone treatment to communities that don't 

20           have a brick-and-mortar opioid treatment 

21           program.  Funding low-threshold buprenorphine 

22           treatments so people can get same-day access 

23           to medication.

24                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  


                                                                   156

 1                  We go to Assemblyman Eachus, three 

 2           minutes.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN EACHUS:  Thank you, Chair.  

 4                  Commissioner Cunningham, I'd like to 

 5           take a look at this "requires medication 

 6           treatment for all substance use disorders in 

 7           carceral settings."  On May 6, 2023, in my 

 8           local county jail, a young woman was found 

 9           dead in her cell.  It's listed as unknown 

10           causes, but she was a known drug addict and 

11           she was showing signs of withdrawal.  

12                  So I am suggesting that we have a lot 

13           more work to do.  We can't allow these folks 

14           to lose their lives because of the lack of 

15           learning and so on like that, so. 

16                  Commissioner Neifeld, I'm interested 

17           in your "Look Beyond My Developmental 

18           Disability."  Everybody should be aware we 

19           cannot see through the lenses of these 

20           disabled folks, so we need them to show us 

21           exactly what's needed to overcome the 

22           difficulties that they have out in society.  

23                  I have not seen this program, and yet 

24           I would consider this body right here as one 


                                                                   157

 1           of the most important bodies to be seeing 

 2           this program.  So as it gets developed 

 3           further and further, I hope you bring it to 

 4           all of us so that we can understand what the 

 5           difficulties are for those out there.

 6                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Happy to.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN EACHUS:  And then the 

 8           final thing actually goes back to last year's 

 9           question, between OMH and OPWDD.  I talked 

10           about both departments being very siloed, 

11           from my own personal experience.  But yet 

12           today I heard about cross-programs, programs 

13           that the two of you are working together 

14           with. 

15                  It is my hope that you will present my 

16           office with those programs and where you are 

17           with those programs and maybe I can assist 

18           you in some way in continuing to develop 

19           those.

20                  I would say the final thing I have is, 

21           Commissioner Sullivan, thank you very much 

22           for your responses.  I'm looking forward to 

23           working with you.  A couple of the issues 

24           brought up today you and I are going to take 


                                                                   158

 1           a look at.  And I would like you to just let 

 2           the rest of my colleagues know that we can 

 3           work along with you to solve some of these 

 4           problems, whether they're in-school clinics 

 5           or, in my particular case, a closed hospital.

 6                  So thank you.  

 7                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Thank you.

 8                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Thank 

 9           you.  

10                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

11                  To the Senate.

12                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  We'll hear 

13           from Senator Scarcella-Spanton.

14                  SENATOR SCARCELLA-SPANTON:  Thank you 

15           so much.  

16                  And thank you for your testimony 

17           today.  

18                  I have three questions.  My first 

19           would be we're getting a lot of reports from 

20           our local organizations that those 

21           cost-of-living adjustments that were meant 

22           for wages are not going to the wages of the 

23           DSPs.  So that's been an issue that's been 

24           brought up to us several times.


                                                                   159

 1                  Another issue that I'd like to bring 

 2           up is the pay differential for OPWDD.  

 3           Employed direct support professionals have 

 4           seen increases in their starting pay, which 

 5           is now at about $27 -- 27 in New York City 

 6           and 25 for the rest of the state -- while at 

 7           the same time the starting pay for a DSP 

 8           providing similar services at a nonprofit is 

 9           significantly lower at $17 an hour.  So we 

10           have a workforce that tends to be leaving or 

11           moving over.  

12                  And lastly, I just wanted to say any 

13           ways that we can work together on the 

14           fentanyl and xylazine issues that we've seen 

15           coming up, I want to be a partner.  I 

16           actually got news that a friend of mine -- 

17           this is now the 11th person I know on 

18           Staten Island who has overdosed, just this 

19           morning.  

20                  So any ways that we can work together 

21           to bring this to schools, please utilize us 

22           as a partner.  But thank you.

23                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  On the 

24           cost-of-living adjustment, I just wanted to 


                                                                   160

 1           emphasize the cost-of-living adjustment is an 

 2           enhancement to the rate of the provider.  We 

 3           do not supply the cost-of-living adjustment 

 4           directly to DSPs.  The legislation does not 

 5           require that it go only to the salary of 

 6           DSPs.  It emphasizes the importance of making 

 7           that available to personnel.  

 8                  And we do collect an attestation from 

 9           our providers to understand how they use 

10           that.  But the money goes directly to 

11           providers, and it is up to providers how and 

12           when they program those additional dollars 

13           and when they go to staff.  

14                  So if there are individual concerns, I 

15           think that's related more to the provider 

16           than it is necessarily to OPWDD.  

17                  And, you know, appreciate your 

18           comments on the cost-of-living adjustment and 

19           its -- whether or not it's enough to impact 

20           the salaries.  I think I've said -- and I 

21           don't want to take the time away from 

22           Chinazo, Dr. Cunningham -- you know, we are 

23           investing I think with the resources that we 

24           have as an agency in every possible way we 


                                                                   161

 1           can to support our workforce.

 2                  SENATOR SCARCELLA-SPANTON:  Thank you.  

 3                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  In 

 4           terms of the drug supply, so, you know, 

 5           exactly what you're talking about is the 

 6           reason why we did a very successful public 

 7           awareness campaign, informing the community 

 8           about fentanyl and the risks of fentanyl, and 

 9           then also directing them to our online 

10           portal, where people can access naloxone, 

11           fentanyl test strips and xylazine test strips 

12           for free.  It takes about 30 seconds to do 

13           that.

14                  And we've shipped out over 70,000 

15           naloxone kits, 5 million fentanyl test 

16           strips, and 4 million xylazine test strips.  

17                  So we'll continue to work with, you 

18           know, whatever partner in the community to 

19           make sure that they have expansion of those 

20           lifesaving tools.

21                  SENATOR SCARCELLA-SPANTON:  Thank you.  

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  So 

23           we go to Assemblymember Chandler-Waterman.

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  


                                                                   162

 1           Thank you so much, Chair.  

 2                  Thank you, Commissioners, for your 

 3           time today.

 4                  I appreciate the support, 

 5           Commissioner Sullivan, for the Assembly 

 6           District 58 Mental Health Task Force, a 

 7           working group I created since taking office, 

 8           comprised of individuals with lived 

 9           experiences.  They set the priorities for my 

10           office in District 58 and in Brooklyn for us.

11                  So we believe peer advocates and 

12           family support must be an intentional part of 

13           the conversation, programs, facilities.  And 

14           of course, Commissioner Cunningham, we're 

15           going to be doing some work together as well.

16                  In the Executive Budget, right, they 

17           talk a lot about beds.  That's a crisis 

18           response.  Not that we don't need beds, but 

19           we need early intervention, which is the best 

20           way to promote emotional wellness and reduce 

21           rates of hospitalization.  Many of these 

22           hospital settings, as you know, re-traumatize 

23           individuals seeking care.  And one solution 

24           for early intervention, as we discussed 


                                                                   163

 1           before, is respite centers and clubhouses, 

 2           which are peer-run residences that provide 

 3           therapeutic, person-centered, trauma-informed 

 4           and culturally responsive care for our 

 5           community members who are unwell, and thus 

 6           get a sense of, you know, belonging and that 

 7           they're validated and heard.

 8                  It's important that we invest more 

 9           into that, the local community-based, 

10           culturally responsive respite centers, 

11           clubhouses.  We don't necessarily want to 

12           travel so far out of our district to get 

13           those services.  Not just about the beds.

14                  But now we have to talk about 

15           hospitalization.  So when we have 

16           co-occurring disorders we need to 

17           destigmatize and decriminalize, as we all 

18           know, when it comes to mental health and 

19           substance use and abuse.  And it starts with 

20           the agencies really working together 

21           collaboratively, especially with allotment of 

22           beds for co-occurring disorders.

23                  And also after-care referrals.  When 

24           individuals leave a behavioral health 


                                                                   164

 1           facility, they need more support when they're 

 2           having issues where they need to go to 

 3           another facility.  And sometimes the stigma 

 4           is on coming from a behavioral health 

 5           facility and now, when it comes to substance 

 6           use and abuse, they're necessarily not taking 

 7           them directly from the hospitals to a program 

 8           or having their co-occurring, you know, 

 9           issues being dealt with there.  They have to 

10           come out, they relapse, and then they are -- 

11           it's easier for them to go in to deal with 

12           the substance use and abuse.  As we know, 

13           mental health -- they both go together.

14                  And then the family support.  It's the 

15           best way for recovery, right?  So what is in 

16           place now when you enter from CPEP, with the 

17           family members -- here's the number to reach 

18           out to your family member.  Here's the 

19           after-care plan.  How do we intentionally put 

20           our family in support with that?  

21                  I know there's not a lot of time -- 

22                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  No.  

23                  I think on the family work, yes, 

24           exactly, that's what happens.  And we want 


                                                                   165

 1           both the hospitals but also the community 

 2           behavioral health centers, everyone to engage 

 3           families, work with families, do that 

 4           outreach to families that are a critical, 

 5           critical piece of anybody's recovery, of 

 6           anybody getting better.  And I think there's 

 7           a lot of training going on to improve that 

 8           across the system.

 9                  The other pieces that you've brought 

10           up I think are further -- we'll talk.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  You'll have to 

12           send us answers, as well as some of the 

13           others, along to the committee chairs.  

14                  And we go to the Senate now.

15                  SENATOR BROUK:  Great.  Next up, 

16           Senator Rolison.

17                  SENATOR ROLISON:  Thank you, 

18           Madam Chair.  

19                  Dr. Sullivan, we talked in last year's 

20           budget hearing about bringing additional beds 

21           online within the public hospitals and also 

22           state facilities as well.  On the public 

23           side -- and you said you've added beds.  What 

24           do you think -- what was that number?  And if 


                                                                   166

 1           I missed it, I apologize.  

 2                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  On the 

 3           state side, we added 150 beds last year.  And 

 4           in this budget there will be 200 beds on the 

 5           state side.  In the community, 500 beds were 

 6           opened this year that had been offline due to 

 7           the pandemic.

 8                  SENATOR ROLISON:  How were those beds 

 9           chosen?  In what location, geographically, 

10           throughout the state.  

11                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  On the 

12           state side, we're looking at a combination of 

13           need, where they are needed.  And also, to be 

14           honest, the construction, what we have in 

15           buildings in various state facilities.  So 

16           it's a combination of what can be easily and 

17           quickly renovated, but also where the need is 

18           across the state.

19                  SENATOR ROLISON:  Dr. Cunningham, I'm 

20           glad that you had spoken in your testimony 

21           about the -- obviously the use of cannabis as 

22           it relates to youth and young adults.  And 

23           you're talking about, you know, providing 

24           evidence-based training and getting that 


                                                                   167

 1           data.  

 2                  When do you think that you'll have 

 3           data to show what that looks like?

 4                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  We 

 5           have data most recently from, I think, 2020 

 6           or 2021 -- so this was before the adult use 

 7           dispensaries opened.  Which actually shows no 

 8           change in use among young people.  But we do 

 9           know that their perception of risk is that 

10           they don't perceive cannabis to have much 

11           risk.  

12                  But we're closely following this.  

13           We're doing surveys in schools and among 

14           young adults so that we're well-positioned to 

15           address this issue.

16                  SENATOR ROLISON:  And when we talk 

17           about providers, training providers, you 

18           know, what does that look like?  Who is that 

19           in community-based health?

20                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  So 

21           those are our outpatient clinics that are 

22           serving anybody with any substance use 

23           disorder, making sure that they know that 

24           cognitive behavioral therapy, motivational 


                                                                   168

 1           interviewing are really evidence-based 

 2           treatments for cannabis use disorder.

 3                  SENATOR ROLISON:  And one of my 

 4           colleagues before talked about marijuana, 

 5           cannabis, and how it is impacting adults as 

 6           well with, you know, ER visits, et cetera, 

 7           you know, based on whatever they may be 

 8           using.

 9                  How is your workforce kind of put 

10           together for this emerging problem?  I mean, 

11           is it something that you need to think about 

12           workforce-wise?

13                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  

14           Absolutely.  So, you know, as part of our 

15           training for our professionals in addiction, 

16           certainly cannabis is part of that training.  

17           And we're continuing to update our curriculum 

18           for training to reflect the changes in the 

19           cannabis industry.  

20                  SENATOR ROLISON:  Good.  Thank you.  

21                  Thank you to the three of you for 

22           being here today.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  To 

24           the Senate -- oh, no, to the Assembly.  


                                                                   169

 1           You're sitting on -- Senator Rolison, you're 

 2           sitting on the Assembly side.  I got confused 

 3           for a moment.

 4                  We go to Assemblywoman Walsh.

 5                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH:  Thank you very 

 6           much, Chairwoman.  

 7                  Good morning.  So as we sit and we 

 8           look at the large budget numbers that are 

 9           being, you know, discussed in today's 

10           hearing, I just really wanted to put a more 

11           human touch on it and to give you an idea of 

12           the kind of people that I hear from on a 

13           regular basis.  

14                  I received this email yesterday.  This 

15           is from a mother of a 12-year-old boy who has 

16           fetal alcohol syndrome, a history of PTSD, 

17           ADHD, low IQ, and reactive attachment 

18           disorder, who was adopted by the parents:  

19           "I've been going round and round with the 

20           mental health system, the school district, 

21           DSS and OPWDD for the last two and a half 

22           years.  My son has been in and out of the 

23           hospital ERs.  He has a developmental 

24           disability and mental health issues, and we 


                                                                   170

 1           are stuck in no man's land for getting him 

 2           the help he needs.

 3                  "OPWDD doesn't have housing for kids 

 4           of his age, 12 years old.  OMH won't touch 

 5           him because he has a developmental 

 6           disability.  Which doesn't make sense because 

 7           you can have both a developmental disability 

 8           and mental health issues.  Also, 90 percent 

 9           of people with fetal alcohol syndrome have 

10           mental health comorbidities.  

11                  "The school won't help because he can 

12           be good at school with his one-on-one aide, 

13           and DSS says that they would charge me with 

14           neglect and take my other kids because I'm an 

15           unfit mother."  

16                  It goes on.  She includes all of his 

17           visits to the hospital ERs.  She says she's 

18           stuck in a situation where no one seems to be 

19           able to help him get a residential placement 

20           for more intensive help.  She goes on even 

21           further.  

22                  And then, at the end, she just says:  

23           "I'm begging for help.  I don't know where to 

24           go."


                                                                   171

 1                  We all, we all get calls and letters 

 2           like this, and emails.  And the desperation 

 3           from some parents who find themselves in 

 4           these situations is one of the most 

 5           heartbreaking things that I know I have to do 

 6           and work on as a member.

 7                  Could you -- I know you talked a 

 8           little bit about Front Door.  Could you just 

 9           address -- tell a parent like this what we've 

10           got in place or if there's anything in this 

11           budget that's going to help resolve these 

12           really heartbreaking situations that we find 

13           ourselves hearing about.

14                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Sure.  

15           thank you.  And I will ask to follow up so 

16           that we can make sure we get the contact 

17           information and reach directly out to that 

18           family.

19                  You know, there are a lot of things 

20           that we are doing across the agencies.  I 

21           think other partners that are really 

22           critically important to this conversation are 

23           the Department of Health, State Education 

24           Department, OCFS.  We're working all the time 


                                                                   172

 1           to try to continue to build new resources.  

 2                  I will say that OPWDD does have 

 3           residential opportunities for youth.  We make 

 4           sure that we work very closely with the 

 5           school districts so that an individual's 

 6           right to an education is preserved when we're 

 7           looking at these residential opportunities.  

 8           They're all across the state, residential 

 9           schools.  You know, there are -- obviously I 

10           don't know the circumstances here.  

11                  But it is a misconception that young 

12           children do not have access to residential 

13           opportunities.  Dr. Sullivan talked about the 

14           SUNY Upstate program that we're building.  I 

15           talked about the program in the 

16           Mid-Hudson Valley.  These are meant to be 

17           short-term interventions with the focus on 

18           returning home.  That's obviously where we 

19           like to start.  

20                  But -- I know I'm running out of time, 

21           but we will absolutely work on this specific 

22           case.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH:  We'll be glad to 

24           work together.  Thank you.


                                                                   173

 1                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  

 2                  Next we will have our Finance ranker, 

 3           Senator O'Mara.

 4                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you.  

 5                  Good afternoon.  Thanks for being with 

 6           us today.

 7                  I just want to follow up again on 

 8           the -- not that we haven't talked about it 

 9           quite a bit already, the direct support 

10           providers and the wages there.  

11                  I really think strongly that more 

12           needs to be done.  I think that the impacts 

13           of the increasing minimum wage over the years 

14           has had an impact on that workforce, 

15           particularly when the fast food wage first 

16           kicked in at $15 an hour, a huge increase.

17                  You know, I'm seeing, throughout the 

18           district I represent, group homes closing.  

19           And closing not because of the lack of I/DD 

20           clients; it's the lack of DSPs to provide for 

21           them.

22                  Now, according to my calculations on 

23           the last three years of COLAs for 

24           direct-support providers, it's a cumulative 


                                                                   174

 1           about 11.3 percent increase.  But during that 

 2           period, minimum wage has increased about 

 3           13.6 percent and inflation over that 

 4           three-year period has been about 

 5           12.5 percent.  

 6                  So we seem to be, based on my 

 7           calculations, losing ground in this battle 

 8           when we're trying to make up and make this 

 9           type of work more desirable from a wage 

10           standpoint than working in a fast food 

11           restaurant or some other certainly less 

12           meaningful work for society.

13                  So what are your thoughts on losing 

14           ground to an ever-increasing minimum wage, 

15           and that's exacerbating, I think, the 

16           workforce for DSPs.

17                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  I would 

18           just add that in addition to the 

19           cost-of-living adjustments in this budget and 

20           in the previous two budgets, there are also 

21           adjustments for minimum wage to help the 

22           agencies keep pace with minimum wage.

23                  I referenced our work this year to 

24           rebase our rates so that they are more 


                                                                   175

 1           reflective of current costs.  But I -- I 

 2           mean, I certainly understand your concerns.  

 3           We recognize the incredible work that DSPs 

 4           do.  We agree that DSPs are doing work that 

 5           is -- you know, that should be valued well 

 6           above minimum wage and is certainly more 

 7           challenging and more meaningful than some of 

 8           the other, you know, jobs that we see that 

 9           are paying the same rate.

10                  I think that, as I've said, within the 

11           resources we have, and this agency's budget, 

12           we are doing everything that we can to invest 

13           in our DSPs -- and, like I said, not just in 

14           the wage area.  Credentialing, marketing, 

15           everything that we can to continue to bolster 

16           this profession.

17                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you.  I think 

18           it's critical that we pay more attention to 

19           that.  You know, these are individuals in 

20           need, they need these living settings.  

21           Families need them for their loved ones.  So 

22           I really think we need to concentrate and 

23           focus more on being able to make it a more 

24           desirable job for individuals to take.


                                                                   176

 1                  So your continued attention to that is 

 2           appreciated.

 3                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Thank 

 4           you.

 5                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

 7                  We go to Assemblyman Bores.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Thank you.  

 9                  Thank you all for being here.  

10                  All of you have mentioned workforce 

11           shortages.  Obviously we've talked about that 

12           a lot.  Without getting in trouble or pushing 

13           any more, would a higher COLA help you 

14           recruit and retain more people in this 

15           profession?  

16                  (No response.)

17                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Can I 

18           just --

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  It's okay.  Can 

20           the court reporter note that everyone smiled.  

21                  (Laughter.)

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Dr. Cunningham, 

23           you mentioned your new programs promoting 

24           responsible gaming.  


                                                                   177

 1                  There's a push afoot to expand mobile 

 2           gaming to all table games through your phone.  

 3           Would that lead to more or fewer cases of 

 4           problematic gaming?  

 5                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Yeah, 

 6           I mean, we -- you know, we are closely 

 7           monitoring what's happening in terms of 

 8           behaviors with gambling.  

 9                  We do see a modest increase in the 

10           number of calls that are coming into our 

11           helpline, and the number of treatment -- 

12           people seeking treatment.  

13                  So, you know, we're ensuring that the 

14           dollars that we have are going towards 

15           prevention, towards harm-reduction efforts 

16           and to make sure that evidence-based 

17           treatment is available.  So we're positioning 

18           ourselves to be able to respond.  

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Wonderful.  Thank 

20           you.

21                  There's a lot in testimony about court 

22           interventions, mental health courts, county 

23           courts.  Do any of these sorts of 

24           interventions also apply to people who are 


                                                                   178

 1           convicted or are charged with felonies?  

 2                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yes.  Yes.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Yes?

 4                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yes.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Are there mental 

 6           health courts that address people who have 

 7           been charged with felonies?  

 8                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  It depends 

 9           on the decision of the prosecutor, whether or 

10           not that could go to a mental health court.  

11           But yes, they do deal with felonies.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Wonderful.  

13                  There's testimony from a later panel 

14           that's quoting the Unified Court System from 

15           October 2023 saying that the vast majority of 

16           people in our -- who are incarcerated are 

17           suffering from mental illness, substance 

18           abuse or co-occurring disorders.  

19                  So the more we can address that 

20           through mental health courts and other bits 

21           that actually help to solve the problem -- 

22           not only does it solve the program, but we'll 

23           save the state a lot of money in the 

24           long term.


                                                                   179

 1                  And then, lastly, Commissioner 

 2           Cunningham, I see 9 million, I think, going 

 3           to contingency management initiatives here.  

 4           Would love to just hear you talk a little bit 

 5           more about, you know, what your hope is for 

 6           that program and where we can expand it.

 7                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Yeah, 

 8           I mean, we know contingency management is 

 9           important, particularly for stimulant use.  

10           And we know that stimulant use is certainly 

11           on the rise in terms of its contribution to 

12           overdose deaths.  

13                  So, you know, we are exploring options 

14           using contingency management as a treatment 

15           approach.  A lot of the challenge has to do 

16           with implementation in the real world outside 

17           of research settings.  But that is something 

18           we're continuing to explore with our 

19           programs.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN BORES:  Thank you.

21                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay, back to the 

22           Senate.  We'll have our second round for 

23           Chair Senator Fernandez.

24                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Thank you.  


                                                                   180

 1                  We know that the Governor has proposed 

 2           exempting certain populations from PMP and 

 3           I-STOP, including those who are incarcerated, 

 4           to help facilitate treatment.  And you, 

 5           Commissioner Cunningham, stated that the 

 6           services are available in every correctional 

 7           facility, jail and prison.  But as we heard 

 8           from other testimony, there are still some 

 9           issues to be worked out.  

10                  This is a good start, but we're also 

11           hearing from providers on the ground that the 

12           implementation has been unequal and many 

13           jails are out of compliance, whether that's 

14           to willful noncompliance or real issues, as 

15           in transportation, going to get the medicine.  

16                  What information is being collected 

17           from sheriffs to ensure -- and anyone else, 

18           really -- to ensure compliance among 

19           correctional facilities?  And what is being 

20           done to correct noncompliance?  

21                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Yes, 

22           so we are working very closely with all 58, 

23           you know, jails and the 44 prisons to ensure 

24           compliance.  And as of now, all of the 


                                                                   181

 1           carceral settings are in compliance.  

 2                  You know, it has taken a lot of work, 

 3           particularly with methadone treatments.  

 4           We're working very closely with our opioid 

 5           treatment programs to partner and provide the 

 6           treatment in carceral settings.  

 7                  We also work with DOCCS and SCOC 

 8           together as -- you know, we don't have the 

 9           authority in the carceral settings, but we 

10           work with them, we do site visits, you know, 

11           we investigate complaints from people who are 

12           incarcerated to ensure that -- that 

13           compliance is happening.

14                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Okay.  I would 

15           encourage more looking into that, given the 

16           testimony that we did hear.

17                  Naloxone and Narcan that we have 

18           available, if you could share I guess OASAS's 

19           position and thoughts about increasing 

20           dosages, making available other dosage sizes.  

21                  We know that Narcan, the brand that 

22           the state has contracted with, only allows 

23           4 milligrams, but there's thoughts and 

24           conversations to increase it to 8.  What are 


                                                                   182

 1           your thoughts on that?

 2                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Yeah, 

 3           there is an expansion of reversal 

 4           medications.  It's naloxone, but the 4 and 8 

 5           milligram dose.  There's also now nalmefene, 

 6           another medication.  I think this is good for 

 7           the field.  

 8                  What we do know from a State 

 9           Department of Health study that was just 

10           released last week is that the 4 milligram 

11           dose is basically equivalent to the 

12           8 milligram dose, but there's actually more 

13           side effects with the 8 milligram dose in 

14           terms of withdrawal.  

15                  So I think right now it's -- certainly 

16           the gold standard continues to be the 

17           4 milligram dose of naloxone, where we have 

18           the most data that supports that.

19                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Thank you so much.

20                  And could you expand a little more 

21           about the I-STOP exemption?  I have 

22           20 seconds, but -- why that this proposal is 

23           needed.

24                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  So 


                                                                   183

 1           I-STOP and the PDMP really is about the 

 2           pharmacy dispensing medication.  So for 

 3           example, methadone that's administered in 

 4           opioid treatment programs is not considered 

 5           in I-STOP because it does not go through a 

 6           pharmacy for distribution.

 7                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Okay, thank you.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblywoman 

 9           Gallagher.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Hi.  I'm 

11           Assemblymember Emily Gallagher, from 

12           District 50, and I am also a big proponent of 

13           harm reduction.  So I have a couple of 

14           questions about the harm reduction programs 

15           that you're running, Dr. Cunningham.  

16                  I am curious about what's going on 

17           with the AIDS Institute Office of Drug User 

18           Health Hubs.  I understand that there's 

19           $256,690,000 available when you look at all 

20           of the Opioid Settlement money and the 

21           different funding streams, but it's my 

22           understanding that OASAS has not been funding 

23           the Drug User Health Hubs through allocation.  

24                  Is that true?


                                                                   184

 1                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  So 

 2           through the Opioid Settlement funds the 

 3           State Department of Health has received 

 4           $35 million in fiscal year '23 and in '24.  

 5           And then they decide how they're going to 

 6           allocate those dollars.

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Okay.  It 

 8           was my understanding that also the 

 9           stewardship funds were made available, and 

10           it's OASAS that's meant to allocate that.

11                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  In 

12           fact, the stewardship funds we actually also 

13           have -- the Department of Health also has 

14           part of those funds as well as OASAS, and 

15           they go to fund harm reduction and treatment 

16           affordability from both medication  

17           affordability and treatment affordability.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Right.  

19           Because I know that the syringe exchange 

20           program and the Drug User Health Hubs were 

21           very effective in helping bring down death of 

22           users.  And I am wondering -- I know that the 

23           funding stream has been having hiccups.  

24           There's been some issues with those 


                                                                   185

 1           health hubs getting the funding.  

 2                  And I'm wondering, what mechanism do 

 3           you suggest we introduce to ensure that the 

 4           Drug User Health hubs do not have their 

 5           funding cut and are able to return to 

 6           offering these lifesaving services that they 

 7           were offering in 2020?  

 8                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  I 

 9           mean, we certainly are providing dollars to 

10           the Department of Health, through the 

11           Opioid Settlement funds and the 

12           Opioid Stewardship funds, and then it's up to 

13           them to decide how they want to use those 

14           dollars.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Is there any 

16           possibility that you could give those funds 

17           directly to the Drug User Health Hubs instead 

18           of going through the Department of Health, 

19           since they haven't been allocating the 

20           funding, so you're self-allocating it?

21                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  We 

22           really work through our agencies, because 

23           they're the ones who oversee the work at the 

24           health hubs, not OASAS.  


                                                                   186

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Okay.  

 2                  Additionally, I'm wondering what it 

 3           would take with the research that has shown 

 4           across the board how effective overdose 

 5           prevention centers are -- what will it take 

 6           to get the Governor and OASAS to move these 

 7           into -- and the Department of Health, to move 

 8           these into actualization across the state?

 9                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  So the 

10           issue really with overdose prevention centers 

11           are legal issues, that they're not 

12           permissible by state or federal law.  And so 

13           we are investing in harm reduction that can 

14           withstand legal challenges.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GALLAGHER:  Thank you.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

17                  We go to Assemblyman Santabarbara.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN SANTABARBARA:  Thank you, 

19           Commissioners.  Good afternoon, actually --

20                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  I'm sorry, I'm 

21           getting confused because the Assemblymembers 

22           are sitting on the Senate side and the 

23           Senators are sitting on the Assembly side.

24                  So we go to our cochair today, 


                                                                   187

 1           Senator Brouk.

 2                  SENATOR BROUK:  You're just testing me 

 3           because I'm new.  Yeah, I know.

 4                  (Laughter.)

 5                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  I'm just 

 6           going to take my three minutes for a second 

 7           round, because there was something I just 

 8           wanted to dig into a little bit more, 

 9           Commissioner Sullivan, when we were talking 

10           about the fact that in addition to CPEP 

11           obviously we want to see the Crisis 

12           Stabilization Centers and other ways to treat 

13           on that continuum of care. 

14                  So specifically when we're looking at 

15           youth, when it comes to the care that they 

16           need in crisis -- now you mentioned that in 

17           the Crisis Stabilization Centers that we are 

18           currently funding through the state there is, 

19           you know, a section -- or care providers for 

20           youth and for adults.

21                  Has any thought been given to really 

22           dedicated, actual centers for youth?  And I 

23           say that because locally we do have 

24           University of Rochester Medical Center, which 


                                                                   188

 1           is creating a youth-focus stabilization 

 2           center.  And I wonder if there's something to 

 3           be learned -- knowing the crisis that we're 

 4           in for mental health specifically for young 

 5           people -- from what they're doing, and 

 6           potentially thinking of how we might be able 

 7           to make these stabilization centers more 

 8           focused on youth.

 9                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  The 

10           stabilization centers are really -- there's 

11           going to be a separate area for youth, 

12           totally staffed for youth.  So it's -- I 

13           mean, they might be contiguous to the adult, 

14           but they are really stabilization centers 

15           that are focused on youth.

16                  So in the new stabilization centers 

17           the youth have a special place, a special 

18           entrance, a special way to get services.  

19           They're also heavily staffed by family and 

20           peer advocates, so it involves an intensive 

21           kind of coordination of services for youth.

22                  Our clinic system also usually has, 

23           throughout the CCBHC system, youth services.  

24           And those youth services are also somewhat 


                                                                   189

 1           segregated from the adult services, even 

 2           though they're in the clinic services.

 3                  We have a few youth -- we have two, I 

 4           think, youth CPEPs.  And that's usually, 

 5           though, in an area where there's a large 

 6           volume, like there's one in New York City.  

 7           So there can be separate -- it can be 

 8           separate, but even within the stabilization 

 9           centers, the youth services are pretty 

10           separate and focused on working with youth 

11           specifically.

12                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay.  So presumably 

13           then a young person walking in wouldn't even 

14           be exposed to --

15                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Right, 

16           exactly.

17                  SENATOR BROUK:  That's helpful.

18                  And then the other thing I wanted to 

19           quickly say is are you familiar with the 

20           proposal from the -- we talked about the 

21           Healthy Minds, Healthy Kids study that came 

22           out, we looked at the need for more service 

23           providers for young people.  The wait times, 

24           we know, the waitlists are way too long.


                                                                   190

 1                  Have you considered or have you looked 

 2           at the proposal to infuse another 

 3           $195 million specifically into children's 

 4           services, especially as we look at outpatient 

 5           services?

 6                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  We've 

 7           really been investing a lot of dollars into 

 8           children's services.  I didn't talk too much 

 9           about the Critical Time Intervention Teams, 

10           but those are going to be working with youth 

11           and hospital EDs in crisis and connectage to 

12           brief residential.  In a few years we will 

13           have over 6,000 slots for home-based crisis 

14           intervention.  

15                  So there's a lot of investment that is 

16           going into the intensive crisis work with 

17           youth.

18                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Now Assemblyman 

20           Santabarbara.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN SANTABARBARA:  Thank you.

22                  And thank you, Commissioners, for 

23           being here. 

24                  Commissioner Neifeld, great to see you 


                                                                   191

 1           here again.  Thank you for being in my 

 2           district and meeting -- actually you met my 

 3           son at one point, and I appreciate that.

 4                  I just wanted to circle back to the 

 5           residential placements that's been brought up 

 6           here a few times.  According to my notes, the 

 7           past few years there's been a reduction in 

 8           certified residential opportunities -- an 8 

 9           percent reduction, actually -- and day 

10           opportunities, a 16 percent reduction is what 

11           I have.  And at the same time the population 

12           has grown, and the number of children being 

13           served has grown as well, leaving many 

14           families unable to access needed services or 

15           students sometimes even being placed out of 

16           state.

17                  In addition to this, it's led to more 

18           students overstaying their residential school 

19           after they've aged out.  And I'm going 

20           through this right now.  So I've heard from 

21           constituents on this issue, but also I'm 

22           going through it firsthand.  My son is aging 

23           out, and we've been in the process of trying 

24           to find a placement for the past couple of 


                                                                   192

 1           years, and there's very few opportunities.  

 2           And the ones that they have offered have been 

 3           in New York City or a long distance away, 

 4           which would essentially take away his family 

 5           life, which is problematic in a number of 

 6           ways.

 7                  So my question is -- and I think part 

 8           of that is due to the staffing crisis and the 

 9           inaccurate rates.  My question is, will OPWDD 

10           commit additional resources for residential 

11           schools to keep students in the state and 

12           near their families, and to keep individuals 

13           near their families once they are out of that 

14           system and looking for a placement as well, 

15           and funding to address the workforce crisis 

16           that's the real cause of all this?

17                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Okay, 

18           that's a lot to unpack.

19                  We are -- so for the residential 

20           schools, just in terms of the funding, we 

21           partner with the State Education Department, 

22           so the educational component of a residential 

23           school placement is paid for the schools -- 

24           the student's home district.  And for -- I'm 


                                                                   193

 1           sorry, the educational piece.

 2                  The residential piece is paid for by 

 3           OPWDD.  When a student ages out, OPWDD does 

 4           incur the cost of that -- of their living 

 5           expenses until they are able to move into a 

 6           certified setting within the OPWDD system.

 7                  We're doing a number of things to try 

 8           to move the needle for students who have 

 9           graduated and are remaining on a residential 

10           school campus.  I mentioned earlier in 

11           testimony about the comprehensive adult 

12           transitional homes that we're opening within 

13           our state-operated programs, recognizing that 

14           the transition from a residential school into 

15           community-based living can be very difficult 

16           for students to manage.  And they're two very 

17           different settings, and oftentimes we see 

18           that that can be a block for students being 

19           able to find an adult opportunity.

20                  I think you hit the nail on the head 

21           as well when you were talking about your own 

22           experience, that all of our opportunities are 

23           voluntary.  Right?  There are no placements 

24           made or people assigned to vacancies.  So we 


                                                                   194

 1           go through a very intentional process of 

 2           understanding the needs -- we can have more 

 3           conversation offline about the other things 

 4           that we're doing.  Sorry.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN SANTABARBARA:  Thank you 

 6           for your answer.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

 8                  So there are no other Senators with 

 9           questions, so we'll just be going through the 

10           list of Assemblymembers who have questions.  

11                  So next, Mr. Blumencranz.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN BLUMENCRANZ:  Thank you so 

13           much.  

14                  I'm grateful that the Governor 

15           included the loan forgiveness for mental 

16           health professionals in our schools.  Our 

17           students are in crisis, and I know a lot of 

18           the providers in my district are hungry for 

19           ways to hire more clinicians in the schools.

20                  But I also know that we're facing a 

21           public safety crisis as well, and I find that 

22           one of the ways we could try and tackle that 

23           is through providing a similar workforce 

24           development and loan forgiveness program for 


                                                                   195

 1           mental health professionals.  I know I had 

 2           introduced it into this body.  It was 

 3           rejected in committee, but I continue to 

 4           fight to see how we can strengthen our 

 5           continuum of care both for those in 

 6           incarceration and those who are on parole.

 7                  Is there a way that we're trying to 

 8           improve the continuum of care for 

 9           incarcerated individuals in order to make 

10           sure that we are decreasing recidivism and 

11           crime in our suburban communities?

12                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  I think 

13           there's two ways.  One, for the individuals 

14           who are in the jails and -- in the prison 

15           system, we have a whole system of care which 

16           really mimics the outpatient services in the 

17           community.  So we have individual therapies, 

18           we have group therapies, we have crisis units 

19           within the prison.  We have inpatient beds 

20           within the prison.  So within the prison 

21           there is that total continuum of care.  

22                  Before someone leaves, if they have 

23           had issues in the community, if they have had 

24           very disruptive behaviors in the community, 


                                                                   196

 1           there are special programs within the prison 

 2           for 60 to 90 days before they leave -- 

 3           sometimes longer -- to get special help for 

 4           that transition from coming out of prison and 

 5           into the community.

 6                  In addition, for individuals -- we 

 7           have a pilot program for individuals on 

 8           parole who maybe have minor violations in 

 9           parole, preventing them from going back to 

10           prison, getting them the services they need.

11                  And then we have the Front Door, which 

12           is all the diversion services which are in 

13           this year's budget, which include mental 

14           health courts, navigators in the mental 

15           health system, beds and forensic ACT teams to 

16           help individuals not get into prison or jail 

17           but be served in the community, with some 

18           supervision, and then have their charges 

19           dealt with in a different way.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN BLUMENCRANZ:  Thank you.

21                  Just another question.  When it comes 

22           to addiction services, I know there's a lot 

23           of really strong research -- and we brought 

24           this up before here today -- surrounding both 


                                                                   197

 1           psilocybin, ibogaine, and even some really 

 2           promising studies on cessation of addiction 

 3           and compulsive behaviors when it comes to 

 4           GLP-1s that are proliferating in our 

 5           communities.  

 6                  Do you see that these could be part of 

 7           the future of continued care for those with 

 8           addiction issues in our communities?

 9                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  I 

10           certainly see, you know, any option to 

11           address addiction, you know, is something 

12           that we should be exploring.  

13                  Our focus has really been on the 

14           FDA-approved medication treatment for opioid 

15           use disorder.  We know it's effective, it 

16           reduces overdose deaths by 50 percent.  So 

17           making sure that people have access to these 

18           medications that, you know, have decades of 

19           research behind them is really a priority.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN BLUMENCRANZ:  Thank you 

21           very much.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So we do have a 

23           Senator for questioning, Senator Ashby.  

24                  SENATOR ASHBY:  Thank you.  


                                                                   198

 1                  Commissioner Sullivan, given 

 2           peer-to-peer success and the Dwyer program's, 

 3           you know, kind of longstanding success rate 

 4           throughout the state and the Governor's 

 5           proposed cuts into veterans' services, are 

 6           you -- are you worried at all about this?  Is 

 7           this concerning to you, and the care that our 

 8           veterans may receive because of these cuts?

 9                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  There are 

10           no cuts at this time to the Dwyer programs.  

11           The Dwyer programs are fully funded the way 

12           they were last year.

13                  We are also doing further peer-to-peer 

14           work with something called CARES UP, which 

15           also works with uniformed personnel but also 

16           with veterans going through transition from a 

17           service to community.  And that's a 

18           peer-to-peer service as well, which we are 

19           funding at additional sites across the state.  

20                  So those programs are funded -- 

21           there's actually been some increase in the 

22           CARES UP program in this year's budget.  So 

23           we're not -- going to not have any cuts in 

24           the Dwyer program.


                                                                   199

 1                  SENATOR ASHBY:  That's good to hear.  

 2           Because when I was looking at the veterans 

 3           budget, there is a cut there, but funding for 

 4           Dwyer comes through OMH rather than that.  

 5                  And I'm very happy to hear of the 

 6           expansion of peer-to-peer.

 7                  Are you looking to increase the 

 8           amounts for Dwyer that the counties receive?

 9                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  That's not 

10           in this year's budget.  But I think we're 

11           evaluating -- you know, many -- some of the 

12           programs we really just started in the 

13           counties about a year ago.  So as we look at 

14           the needs, I think that's something we will 

15           look at into the future.  

16                  It's a very effective program.  It 

17           really does a -- and it's not just mental 

18           health, it does all kinds of services for 

19           vets.  So it's a very comprehensive program.

20                  SENATOR ASHBY:  I agree.  

21                  And there's also another program 

22           that's received some attention in the last 

23           couple of years, Dr. Bourke's RTM research 

24           that he's done through SUNY Albany and is 


                                                                   200

 1           hoping to expand.  And it's been -- it has 

 2           gotten a lot of -- a lot of positive 

 3           reinforcement through peer reviews as well, 

 4           and it's something that I think we should 

 5           consider including in the budget and 

 6           addressing PTSD not only for our veterans 

 7           but, you know, across the board.  

 8                  Are you aware of that?  Are you 

 9           tracking his work at all?  

10                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  We have -- 

11           I'm aware of it.  And I think that we can 

12           look into the program.  There are a number of 

13           programs -- a number of approaches to PTSD, 

14           and that's one of them.

15                  SENATOR ASHBY:  I appreciate it.  

16           Thank you, Doctor.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So we -- a 

18           number of Assemblymembers have left -- are 

19           coming and going because of committee 

20           meetings.  So next we're going to go to 

21           Assemblywoman Darling.

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN DARLING:  Thank you, 

23           Commissioners, for being here and for your 

24           work for the State of New York.  


                                                                   201

 1                  I'm going to ask two questions and try 

 2           it this way, where I ask both questions at 

 3           the same time.  

 4                  So the first question, following 

 5           recent visits from individuals and 

 6           organizations reporting understaffing 

 7           concerns, especially those working with 

 8           children with disabilities, how does the 

 9           office -- or OPWDD -- ensure adequate 

10           staffing levels despite increased funding for 

11           psychiatric rehabilitation and developmental 

12           disability programs?

13                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So how do 

14           we ensure adequate staffing, is that the 

15           question?

16                  ASSEMBLYMEMBER DARLING:  Yes.  

17           especially as we're having like the workforce 

18           development issue right now.

19                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Right.  I 

20           mean, I think we have -- we do not have 

21           mandatory minimum levels of staffing because 

22           all of our services are person-centered and 

23           really based on the individual's need.

24                  We do a lot of work with our care 


                                                                   202

 1           coordination organizations, providers of 

 2           services, our own regional office, and then 

 3           obviously when it relates to our 

 4           state-operated programs, to understand an 

 5           individual's need, understand the level of 

 6           staffing that needs to be there in order for, 

 7           you know, them to have, you know, safety 

 8           measures met and also for them to be meeting 

 9           their goals.

10                  So that is, you know, individually 

11           determined by the person, and then we work 

12           with providers to ensure that those levels 

13           are met.

14                  ASSEMBLYMEMBER DARLING:  Okay.  And my 

15           next question is, how does Governor Hochul's 

16           allocation of 13.7 million in additional 

17           federal reimbursement for the implementation 

18           of prevention services mandated by the Family 

19           First Prevention Services Act address 

20           concerns about the lack of mental health 

21           services and overreliance on medication 

22           within the foster-care system, particularly 

23           given the distressing impact of family 

24           separation on children?


                                                                   203

 1                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  I think 

 2           that program is actually in -- I'm not that 

 3           familiar with it.  I think it's the Office of 

 4           Children and Family Services.  So I don't 

 5           really know the details of that.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMEMBER DARLING:  Okay, so I'll 

 7           keep it to the mental health services.  What 

 8           in the proposed budget do we have that is 

 9           going to address mental health concerns with 

10           foster children?  

11                  We've been receiving so many 

12           complaints and issues regarding different 

13           practices and how they are impacting children 

14           and families.  The overreliance on medication 

15           is a major, major concern for parents and 

16           providers in foster care.  

17                  So just do we have any measures or any 

18           protocols that we're going to set in place 

19           with this proposed budget to address those 

20           concerns?

21                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Certainly 

22           all the crisis services and the intensive 

23           services that we have on the mental health 

24           side can work also with foster-care kids.  


                                                                   204

 1           But the foster-care kids are under the Office 

 2           of Children and Family Services, so the 

 3           specific problems in terms of medication or 

 4           other things, I am not familiar with, because 

 5           it's not under the Office of Mental Health.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMEMBER DARLING:  So is there 

 7           any overlap between those --

 8                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yeah, some 

 9           of the youth fall -- can be in some of our 

10           services, but they have a whole mental health 

11           system within foster care which is under 

12           Office of Foster Care Services, which is 

13           separate.

14                  ASSEMBLYMEMBER DARLING:  Thank you for 

15           that clarity.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

17                  We go to Assemblyman Burdick.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Yes, thank you.

19                  And thank you all for your testimony.

20                  First for Commissioner Neifeld first, 

21           I want to thank you for your kind words and 

22           your testimony and your agency's terrific 

23           effort to expand employment opportunities for 

24           people with disabilities.


                                                                   205

 1                  I'd like to support the request we've 

 2           heard today for the 3.2 percent COLA for DSPs 

 3           and 4,000 wage enhancement.

 4                  Commissioner Sullivan, I wish to 

 5           commend and strongly support the Governor's 

 6           proposed Article VII to prohibit 

 7           out-of-pocket expense for insulin drugs.

 8                  And I'd appreciate your thoughts about 

 9           extending this to EpiPen auto-injector 

10           devices for emergency treatment.

11                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  That's 

12           really the Department of Health really looks 

13           at insulin.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Oh, I'm sorry.

15                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  That's 

16           okay.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  So back to 

18           Commissioner Neifeld.  You mentioned in your 

19           testimony that one of the major things that 

20           you're working on is infrastructure.  And in 

21           previous conversations, you know, we're 

22           concerned about how long it's been taking in 

23           order for changes in self-direction budgets.  

24           And I'm concerned that how long it might take 


                                                                   206

 1           for all the IT and such would further delay 

 2           trying to speed up the process in reviewing 

 3           changes.

 4                  And I'm wondering if you could address 

 5           that.

 6                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Sure.

 7                  I think overall our process for 

 8           approving -- reviewing and approving 

 9           self-direction budgets has greatly improved 

10           since last year.  You know, our backlog has 

11           essentially gone away and, you know, because 

12           Governor Hochul has -- one of the first 

13           things that she did was lift the hiring 

14           freeze for agencies.  We were able to recruit 

15           and train enough staff to be able to do that.

16                  As you referenced, though, it is a 

17           largely manual -- fully manual process, and 

18           we're serving close to 30,000 New Yorkers now 

19           through our self-direction program.  So the 

20           infrastructure piece, the IT intervention is 

21           critical.  And we're working on that, and we 

22           don't expect there to be a delay.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Could I ask you 

24           if anything might be able to be done in the 


                                                                   207

 1           interim.  You know, for example, the 

 2           thresholds for approvals or who might do the 

 3           approving, such as whether the financial 

 4           intermediary might have some limited 

 5           authority below a certain dollar limit.

 6                  Is that something you'd entertain?

 7                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  There is 

 8           limited authority below a certain threshold.  

 9           But we also, you know, need to work to make 

10           sure that decisions are being made and 

11           coordinate our -- you know, in compliance 

12           with the rules and the regulations.  And I 

13           think part of that will be the IT system will 

14           help with that a lot.

15                  But we do -- there are certain 

16           thresholds that FIs have authority to approve 

17           up to.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Great.  

19                  Thank you.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

21                  To the Senate.

22                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

23                  Next we'll have Senator Mannion for 

24           his second round.


                                                                   208

 1                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you.  Thank 

 2           you.  

 3                  Commissioner Neifeld, we've talked a 

 4           little bit about the ITOs and the progress 

 5           that's happening there.  There's -- all too 

 6           often I think we're hearing about individuals 

 7           that are in inappropriate settings.  They're 

 8           in -- you know, they're in hospitals, they 

 9           can't be discharged.

10                  I wanted to mention and get your 

11           thoughts on if there's any appetite for 

12           support of this bill, maybe even, you know, 

13           you could advocate in the budget process for 

14           a training program that's actually being 

15           developed right now at the University of 

16           Rochester for healthcare workers to work 

17           specifically with individuals with 

18           disabilities.  There's instances out there 

19           where unfortunately there may be some 

20           improvements that could occur as far as the 

21           care and the engagement with those 

22           individuals.

23                  So the piece of legislation that I 

24           have is to reduce premium costs for 


                                                                   209

 1           malpractice insurance for individuals that 

 2           are physicians or otherwise.  So do you see a 

 3           place for that, certainly in the space?  And 

 4           do you and your office see examples or have 

 5           you seen an increase in examples of negative 

 6           situations that have occurred in a healthcare 

 7           location?

 8                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So I'm 

 9           not familiar with the legislation.  I'll have 

10           to look at that with the team and certainly 

11           we can work with the Executive to be 

12           responsive.  

13                  I think we know that when someone is 

14           going to an emergency department or a similar 

15           setting, that those doctors are not specially 

16           trained to work with people with 

17           developmental disabilities.  And of course, 

18           you know, not just those doctors, but the 

19           staff of the hospital.  And of course I think 

20           we see the impact of that.

21                  We have recently begun working with 

22           the Department of Health really looking at 

23           this issue.  We hosted -- Dr. McDonald hosted 

24           a grand round, he does four commissioners 


                                                                   210

 1           grand rounds.  He invited OPWDD providers 

 2           from within our system to share with doctors 

 3           and nurses about the need for specialty 

 4           training to work with people with 

 5           developmental disabilities.

 6                  We have within our own agency a 

 7           technical support team, and something that 

 8           they have done is actually go to hospitals, 

 9           work with the personnel at hospitals to 

10           understand the individual needs of the person 

11           that they're serving related to their 

12           developmental disability.  And it has helped 

13           speed up the process of having them find 

14           other opportunities.  

15                  So I do think it's a need.  It is an 

16           area that we're working on.  Would be happy 

17           to take a look at the bill and see how that 

18           might be helpful.

19                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you. 

20                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So we go next 

21           to Assemblymember McMahon.  

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN McMAHON:  Thank you, 

23           Chair Weinstein.  

24                  And thank you, Commissioners, for 


                                                                   211

 1           being here today. 

 2                  My questions are for 

 3           Commissioner Neifeld.  I think we've pretty 

 4           much covered the COLA and the wage 

 5           enhancement obviously.  I see its importance 

 6           and support it.  But I'd like to talk a 

 7           little bit about housing.

 8                  Unfortunately I don't think we have 

 9           sufficient housing opportunities for all the 

10           people that need them.  In Western New York 

11           alone, it's my understanding that there are 

12           hundreds of people on a housing priority list 

13           and they're waiting for housing opportunities 

14           that don't exist for them.

15                  And as parents and caregivers age, the 

16           problem only becomes more serious.  At one 

17           hearing, I think maybe last year, we talked 

18           about OPWDD doing an inventory of housing 

19           opportunities versus people.  And I'm 

20           wondering if that has been done and what the 

21           results of that are.

22                  And then, second, I noticed in your 

23           testimony you talked about the $15 million 

24           investment in community-based supportive 


                                                                   212

 1           housing.  I'm assuming this is maybe the 

 2           FOFILLS?  Or no -- 

 3                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  It's 

 4           different.

 5                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN McMAHON:  -- maybe?  

 6           Yeah, maybe.  

 7                  So we have these initiatives to 

 8           provide housing, non-certified housing, but I 

 9           think the need for certified housing is still 

10           huge and still there.  So how do we solve 

11           that problem?  Is it just a question of 

12           capital?  Staffing?  What is it?

13                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Yeah, I 

14           think -- you know, I don't have the numbers 

15           off the top of my head, but certainly we can 

16           follow up with the committees to share the 

17           number of vacancies versus the number of 

18           people who are expressing an interest in 

19           housing opportunities.

20                  I think what we know is that there are 

21           sufficient vacancies within the system, and 

22           that we're really talking about the need for 

23           staff to staff those vacancies.  Right?  A 

24           vacancy within a home is not really valuable 


                                                                   213

 1           unless there are the staff there to support 

 2           the individuals who need those services.

 3                  So that's certainly the area that I 

 4           think we're continuing to focus on, is 

 5           bolstering the workforce to be able to staff 

 6           those opportunities.

 7                  Some other things that I just think 

 8           are worth mentioning, the $15 million capital 

 9           investment that you referenced is in our 

10           Integrated Supportive Housing Program.  So 

11           that's a capital investment to develop 

12           supportive housing for people with 

13           developmental disabilities so that they can 

14           live independently.

15                  I also referenced our housing 

16           subsidies.  So we can pay a housing subsidy 

17           for people to live independently.  And I 

18           think the interrelationship there with 

19           certified housing is that for everybody who 

20           can and wants to live independently and has 

21           the opportunity to do so, that's an 

22           opportunity within a certified setting that 

23           doesn't have to go to someone who doesn't 

24           need that level of care and can be available 


                                                                   214

 1           for someone who does need that level of 

 2           support.

 3                  So that's why there -- it's critically  

 4           important that we continue to develop that 

 5           continuum so that people have access to the 

 6           least restrictive housing opportunity, you 

 7           know, that they need.  And that's an area 

 8           that we're very focused on.  The 

 9           Article VII -- the legislation related to the 

10           Nurse Practice Act that would allow DSPs to 

11           perform basic nursing skills in the 

12           community, that's also critically important 

13           to that.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN McMAHON:  Thank you very 

15           much.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

17           Assemblyman Palmesano, three minutes.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Yes.  My 

19           question first is for Commissioner Sullivan.  

20           Don't want an answer here, as we'll need to 

21           put it in writing because of the time.

22                   I want to talk about the issue of 

23           suicide.  I have a family in my district that 

24           lost their 30-year-old son to suicide.  And 


                                                                   215

 1           since then, they've been advocating for 

 2           changes to the mental health system, or lack 

 3           thereof, that failed their son and their 

 4           family.  As many others who have lost their 

 5           children to suicide believe, they are 

 6           reaching out for help but can never get the 

 7           help they need.

 8                  So my question that I want to answer 

 9           back in writing is what can I tell that 

10           family that this administration is doing to 

11           try to address this issue?  What should be 

12           done to help make sure tragedies like this 

13           don't happen again?  

14                  And also, I know there's a lot of 

15           money being talked about for mental health, 

16           which is great.  What about transparency and 

17           assurances you can provide us that some of 

18           that money is making it to our rural areas 

19           that desperately need this assistance too?  

20           So if that's something you can follow up in 

21           writing, I'd really appreciate it.

22                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Mm-hmm.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Commissioner 

24           Neifeld, I want to speak to you.  I kind of 


                                                                   216

 1           want to go on record as well for the support 

 2           for our direct support professionals.  As 

 3           someone who actually worked as a DSP over 

 4           20 years ago, I saw firsthand the impact on 

 5           the quality of life and quality of care our 

 6           DSPs can make for our most vulnerable 

 7           population, those with intellectual and 

 8           developmental disabilities.

 9                  So when I see 1.5 percent in the 

10           budget, that's woefully inadequate.  Even the 

11           3.2 percent that's being talked about is 

12           woefully inadequate.  And as you know, 

13           budgeting is about priorities.  And when we 

14           see -- if we're not providing care for our 

15           most vulnerable citizens, like those with 

16           intellectual and developmental disabilities, 

17           what does that say to us about our state's 

18           priorities?  

19                  And then when I see programs like 

20           $700 million for the Hollywood film tax 

21           credit or 2.4 billion for the migrant crisis, 

22           but yet here they have to come up here every 

23           year and basically beg for a COLA -- and we 

24           know the wage discrepancy that's between our 


                                                                   217

 1           state-supported workers who are working 

 2           versus those in our not-for-profits -- also, 

 3           there's a wage discrepancy between our direct 

 4           support professionals and the fast food 

 5           industry.  

 6                  I've known DSPs that went to work -- 

 7           they want to stay in that profession because 

 8           they care and they want to help, but they can 

 9           only do it for so long before their back 

10           breaks to take care of the family and they go 

11           work for McDonald's or Taco Bell, and losing 

12           people there.  That's a problem.

13                  So we need to be more serious about 

14           addressing this issue moving forward.  I did 

15           want to just ask you, on the waitlists -- I 

16           know it was mentioned -- do you have 

17           waitlists that you can provide us, how many 

18           people in different areas that we can see, 

19           that you can share with us?

20                  And also I also heard from homes, from 

21           people that were at homes that have been shut 

22           down because there was not the staffing.  Do 

23           you keep track of those homes so we know 

24           how -- because I know we had issues during 


                                                                   218

 1           COVID.  Is that something you could share and 

 2           provide to us as a committee as well, if you 

 3           know what I mean?

 4                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Sure, I 

 5           understand.  Appreciate your support of the 

 6           workforce and your work as a DSP; I just want 

 7           to acknowledge that.

 8                  We don't have a waitlist for housing 

 9           services.  We do have a process by which we 

10           prioritize individuals who have expressed 

11           interest.  I will follow up in writing to the 

12           committees.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN PALMESANO:  Okay.  Thank 

14           you.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

16                  We go next to Assemblyman Norris.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN NORRIS:  Thank you very 

18           much, Chair Weinstein.

19                  My question is for 

20           Commissioner Neifeld -- two questions.  It 

21           has been reported, from my understanding, 

22           that OPWDD has closed some 150 group homes, 

23           IRAs.  It is not authorizing private 

24           nonprofits to establish any more group homes.  


                                                                   219

 1           What is your plan to provide housing for the 

 2           approximately 5500 people with disabilities 

 3           who are serviced through traditional Medicaid 

 4           service on OPWDD's waiting list for certified 

 5           group home spots?

 6                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So we 

 7           have temporarily suspended homes within the 

 8           state-operated system.  Those homes are not 

 9           closed, they're not permanently taken 

10           offline.  We have certainly worked to reopen 

11           many homes as staffing allows.  

12                  Typically the reason that those homes 

13           are temporarily suspended is related to 

14           staffing.  So the work that we're doing is 

15           not to open, you know, additional or, you 

16           know, commit capital dollars to opening or 

17           building new homes, but to supporting our 

18           workforce and bolstering the workforce.  

19           We've done a lot on the state-operated side 

20           to increase recruitment and retention.

21                  On the -- I'm sorry, I'd lost track of 

22           all of your questions, I apologize.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN NORRIS:  That's -- it was 

24           my main question, but I'll follow up with a 


                                                                   220

 1           second question, if that's okay.

 2                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Please.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN NORRIS:  In addition, 

 4           there are 30,000 more who are serviced 

 5           through the self-direction program.  That's 

 6           my understanding.  Some 10,000 are seeking or 

 7           shortly will be seeking non-certified housing 

 8           of their own choosing.  It is reported that 

 9           OPWDD is not fully cooperating with families 

10           who want to establish their own independent 

11           living arrangements, and in some cases 

12           threaten to stop existing services if the 

13           person with a disability moves out.

14                  So will you change this policy?  And 

15           what will you do to achieve OPWDD's purported 

16           goal to enable these people with disabilities 

17           to live independently with proper supports?  

18           It is, in my opinion, very important that we 

19           allow these individuals to live 

20           independently, and to do everything that we 

21           can from the administration's point of 

22           view -- and our point of view -- to achieve 

23           that.

24                  So I'm just trying to narrow it down 


                                                                   221

 1           and hear your feedback on that very important 

 2           issue.

 3                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  Sure.  We 

 4           agree, which is why we've invested in our 

 5           housing subsidies and in supportive housing 

 6           and continue to do that and are open to 

 7           having conversations with providers and with 

 8           families who think they have creative ideas.

 9                  We are also very much committed to 

10           integration and to, you know, upholding the 

11           federal standards related to Olmstead and 

12           HCBS settings where we're not creating 

13           uncertified institutions.  So that's why this 

14           conversation is nuanced.  It's really -- it's 

15           one that we need to have project-based, to 

16           understand how these are integrated 

17           opportunities for people in the community and 

18           not just, you know, building an apartment 

19           building for people with developmental 

20           disabilities only.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN NORRIS:  Thank you.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

23           Assemblyman Braunstein.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Thank you.


                                                                   222

 1                  And I want to thank all the 

 2           commissioners for your testimony today.

 3                  My question is for 

 4           Commissioner Sullivan.  In your testimony I 

 5           appreciate that you referenced that OMH will 

 6           work intensively with hospitals and emergency 

 7           rooms to implement new regulations for best 

 8           practices in admission and discharge 

 9           planning, including the requirement to ensure 

10           individuals are not discharged without an 

11           appropriate plan or access to follow-up 

12           services.

13                  I also appreciate the investment in 

14           mental health navigators to working with 

15           county courts, with the courts' mental health 

16           coordination teams and local providers, and 

17           refer individuals to treatment and services.

18                  Unfortunately there are some 

19           individuals who, despite best efforts of 

20           encouraging treatment, will refuse.  And 

21           sometimes severely ill individuals cycle 

22           through -- they wind up in the hospital time 

23           and time again and they wind up in the court 

24           system time and time again.


                                                                   223

 1                  My question is, at what point does the 

 2           state intervene with mandatory treatment?  

 3           And with the hospital system, who initiates 

 4           that process?  In the courts, who initiates 

 5           that process?  How often does it happen?  

 6           What are the standards?  I'm just curious 

 7           about how we approach that situation of a 

 8           person who time and time again, despite the 

 9           state's best efforts to get them treatment, 

10           refuses and winds up in the hospital and the 

11           criminal justice system.

12                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  There are 

13           actually a number of ways.

14                  On the hospital system, individuals 

15           can either come or be brought to emergency 

16           rooms.  And within emergency rooms for 

17           admission there is the ability to 

18           involuntarily admit someone, even if they 

19           don't think that they need the treatment, for 

20           whatever period of time that they may need it 

21           to get well.  There's also the ability for 

22           individuals to have longer stays in state 

23           hospital systems.

24                  So on the hospital side, it's usually 


                                                                   224

 1           because someone is felt to be seriously 

 2           impaired functionally, so they're perhaps 

 3           dangerous to self or others, or have a 

 4           serious issue with neglect.  And those 

 5           individuals can get admitted.

 6                  On the other hand, families can also 

 7           petition for someone to be evaluated.  

 8           Departments of social services, DCSs in 

 9           communities, they can also have someone 

10           brought for an evaluation.  So there are a 

11           number of ways that you can enter that part 

12           of the system.

13                  There's also something called assisted 

14           outpatient treatment which New York State 

15           has, which is something that really provides 

16           a lot of services but also a judge and a 

17           court that says that you have to partake in 

18           those services.  And that assisted outpatient 

19           treatment has many legal safeguards, but it 

20           is usually for individuals who have had the 

21           kind of repetitive issues that you're 

22           discussing.

23                  However, all that said, the most 

24           important thing is the intensity of 


                                                                   225

 1           outpatient services when someone's in the 

 2           community.  And that we are growing, so we 

 3           can avoid hospitals and AOT and get people 

 4           better.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN BRAUNSTEIN:  Thank you.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

 7                  We go to Assemblywoman Kelles.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Thank you all 

 9           for being here.

10                  I'm just going to run through really 

11           quickly because the list that we all have is 

12           way longer than the time we have.

13                  But just for Commissioner Sullivan to 

14           start with -- can you hear me now?  Okay.  So 

15           last year's budget we had 890 million for 

16           beds; that was supposed to be for 1300.  My 

17           understanding is at the end of this year 

18           we'll have 330 total.  We have 130 already.  

19                  Do we -- I guess, what is the timeline 

20           to get all those 1300?  That's not including 

21           the additional couple of hundred for this 

22           year that we've added to the budget again.  

23           And do we have staff for these?

24                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  There's 


                                                                   226

 1           inpatient beds and then there's residential 

 2           beds --

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So last year 

 4           there was 890 million put in that was capital 

 5           for the 1 billion for mental health --

 6                  (Overtalk.)

 7                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yes, and 

 8           that was largely for residential beds in the 

 9           community.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Correct.

11                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  And those 

12           are -- all the requests for proposal for 

13           those beds will be out by the end of March.  

14           And some of them will start to appear -- if 

15           they were apartments, a number of those have 

16           already been awarded and they will be filled 

17           very quickly.  

18                  If it's capital that goes towards 

19           building beds, then --

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So we've 

21           already allocated all the -- I'm sorry, I 

22           have --

23                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  All the 

24           RFPs will be out.  They will be out.


                                                                   227

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Great.  Great.

 2                  And I'm just going to point out 

 3           something, read some data, because it would 

 4           be good for all of us to have on the record, 

 5           because I know we're all -- we're all 

 6           struggling with the same thing, we want to 

 7           solve these problems.  So it's just good to 

 8           have this.

 9                  These are the COLA adjustments that 

10           we've had over the last 10 years.  2013, 

11           inflation was 2, increase was zero.  2014, 

12           inflation was 2, increase was zero.  2105, 

13           0.2, we got the {inaudible} to an increase.  

14           2016, 0.8, we got zero increase.  2017, 

15           inflation was 1.7, we got a zero increase.  

16           2018, inflation was 2.9, we got a zero 

17           increase.  2019, inflation was 1.8, we got a 

18           zero increase.  2020, inflation was 1, we got 

19           a 1 percent increase.  2021, first one, 5.4 

20           was inflation, 5.4 was the increase.  2022, 

21           8.5 inflation, 4.0 increase.  2023, 3.2 -- we 

22           asked for the 3.2 that year.  Again, we're at 

23           I think 3.2 inflation, right, we have a 1.5 

24           proposed.  


                                                                   228

 1                  COLA is a cost-of-living adjustment.  

 2           It's not a wage increase.  So I read this all 

 3           to show that the data is basically going like 

 4           this (gesturing up) where we -- all providers 

 5           are getting a wage reduction, in effect.  

 6           Right?  Because cost-of-living adjustment is 

 7           to maintain just at inflation.

 8                  So we are seeing across the board a 

 9           decrease in providers.  I'm seeing a huge 

10           vacancy rate in every single area, from OASAS 

11           to OPWDD to Mental Health in my communities.

12                  Do you think that, I guess in a 

13           nutshell, that 1.5 is enough to backfill and 

14           change the direction of this?  Would you 

15           consider it an actual wage increase?

16                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So --

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  You can answer 

18           offline.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We'll all wait 

20           to hear your answers sent to the committees, 

21           and we'll make sure to share with all of our 

22           colleagues.

23                  So next we go to the chair of 

24           Disabilities, Assemblywoman Seawright.  


                                                                   229

 1           Second round, three minutes.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you.

 3                  I'll ask my three questions and then 

 4           if you'll answer or get back to me if we're 

 5           out of time.

 6                  Self-direction.  Although there are no 

 7           new directives that have come from OPWDD, 

 8           fiscal intermediaries are clawing back on 

 9           approving community classes.  How can that 

10           system be improved?

11                  And then, second question, I'm deeply 

12           concerned by the recent OPWDD rules change 

13           that undermines the Family Support Services 

14           program.  How many families have been 

15           impacted because they are deemed paid 

16           caregivers?  And then I believe 

17           Senator Mannion and I have both sent letters 

18           opposing that administrative rule change.

19                  The third question, you mentioned 

20           rebasing that will occur July 1st.  Based on 

21           your analysis, how will the agencies be 

22           penalized for paying more to DSPs?  And what 

23           can agencies expect as an impact to their 

24           rates?


                                                                   230

 1                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  So on the 

 2           FSS ADM -- I'll start there -- we worked very 

 3           closely with the Family Support Services 

 4           Council.  We have a statewide council that 

 5           advises and that we interact with routinely 

 6           to issue the updates to that ADM.  The 

 7           updates were in the area of family 

 8           reimbursement and were made to provide, for 

 9           the first time since the program's inception, 

10           guidelines around what can and cannot be 

11           reimbursed and what the parameters are around 

12           that.

13                  We have obviously since that time 

14           heard feedback from people who use the family 

15           reimbursement program, and we have been 

16           working with both the local councils and the 

17           statewide councils to understand those 

18           concerns and to address them.  The councils 

19           have done their own work to pull that 

20           information together, presenting it to us, 

21           and we're in discussion about potential 

22           updates to the ADM that will reflect, you 

23           know, some of their concerns.

24                  With regard to community classes, I 


                                                                   231

 1           mentioned earlier that there have been no 

 2           changes to the way the community classes are 

 3           administered.  We have over 90 FIs across the 

 4           state.  And so ensuring consistency of 

 5           practice and ensuring that all those FIs 

 6           understand the rules in the same way is a 

 7           monumental effort on behalf of the agency, 

 8           and we are certainly working toward that.

 9                  So some of the things that we're doing 

10           will be requiring FIs to have an appeals 

11           process so that if an individual who's 

12           self-directing or their family member feels 

13           that a denial was made in error, they can 

14           bring that to the FI.  

15                  We'll also be requiring that they work 

16           together on communities of practice to 

17           understand and discuss what the classes are.

18                  But the classes do exist, and the 

19           opportunity for people to use their 

20           self-direction budget to take community 

21           classes exists within parameters.  There's 

22           parameters around what is and is not 

23           allowable that comes from both the state and 

24           from the federal government, and they cannot 


                                                                   232

 1           replace existing Medicaid services.  And they 

 2           must be integrated and open to the community.

 3                  And again, you know, those are part of 

 4           our agreement with CMS on how we administer 

 5           this program.  So those parameters must be 

 6           upheld, but we are working to make sure 

 7           there's consistent understanding.

 8                  And we can talk more about the 

 9           rebasing in a response letter.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

12                  We go to actually our last 

13           questioner -- no, not our last questioner.  

14           Next we go to, for a second round, 

15           Assemblywoman Gunther.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  (Mic off.)  I 

17           just have one question.  I had taken a 

18           behavioral health {inaudible} prison in 

19           New York State, and I went from place to 

20           place to see like what was happening with 

21           mental hygiene in prison, et cetera.  One 

22           thing that I was kind of shocked about was 

23           the use of Suboxone, and what -- like how 

24           that -- how is that able -- like somebody 


                                                                   233

 1           said that you just have to say that "I have a 

 2           past history of addiction."  And I spoke with 

 3           some of the employees there and they talked 

 4           about the fact that, you know, they put their 

 5           piece of paper in here (gesturing to cheek) 

 6           and so forth and so on, and the usage of it, 

 7           and they felt it was a little excessive.

 8                  And there are people that are -- you 

 9           know, there are ways that you can put it in 

10           your cheek and not let it be absorbed into 

11           your body, so they were talking about that.  

12                  And I just thought, you know, that's 

13           kind of a strange thing that people are using 

14           those kinds of medications in prison and, you 

15           know, we don't want to see anybody addicted 

16           with those kinds of needs.  And there's -- 

17           there weren't any rules and regulations.  

18           They don't take a history of people and, you 

19           know, go through addiction, what happened, 

20           those kinds of things.  It's just on 

21           somebody's word.  And they are selling it 

22           back and forth.  I don't know if you've heard 

23           that.

24                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  I 


                                                                   234

 1           mean, in order to get treatment, people are 

 2           assessed and really need an opioid use 

 3           disorder diagnosis before getting treatment 

 4           with something like buprenorphine.  So an 

 5           assessment does need to happen, and a 

 6           diagnosis.

 7                  But certainly diversion is a real 

 8           concern in the carceral setting, and there 

 9           are different formulations of buprenorphine.  

10           We have a TEACH in fact right now, working 

11           with the medical providers in carceral 

12           settings, to provide education and training.  

13           But there are different formulations, so 

14           there's an injection for buprenorphine so 

15           that if what you described, you know, 

16           happens, that there then are opportunities to 

17           have a different way to administer medication 

18           which is less likely to be diverted.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Mm-hmm.  I 

20           didn't know if it was true or not true, but 

21           some of the people that worked there just had 

22           mentioned it.

23                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  Yeah, 

24           we have also heard it as well.  And I think, 


                                                                   235

 1           you know, again working -- we are working 

 2           with the medical providers in carceral 

 3           settings to have a discussion about the 

 4           different treatment options and including the 

 5           different ways which medications can be 

 6           administered that can reduce risk of 

 7           diversion.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Thank you.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So now to close 

10           out the questions for this panel, 

11           Assemblyman De Los Santos.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS:  Thank you, 

13           Commissioner, for your time here.

14                  I'm trying to understand the 

15           comprehensive mental health system and the 

16           investment from Governor Kathy Hochul of 

17           1 billion.  How do you explain the fact that 

18           this is a historical investment, yet you have 

19           underserved communities like my community in 

20           Upper Manhattan and Washington Heights and 

21           Marble Hill that have not benefited from this 

22           investment, or this investment has not 

23           translated in reality to what we wish to see 

24           as it relates to mental health?


                                                                   236

 1                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  A lot of 

 2           the programs and things which are starting 

 3           will be coming out.  And there's certainly 

 4           places where basically, yes, those services 

 5           will appear -- services for youth, services 

 6           for adults, et cetera.  

 7                  The RFPs that I had mentioned earlier 

 8           are all now out and getting awarded, so we 

 9           should be able to see in your area a 

10           significant increase in the services that 

11           you're looking for.  

12                  We're also doing a lot of prevention 

13           work, which is also going into communities, 

14           underserved communities across the state and 

15           across the city.

16                  So the services may not have appeared 

17           yet, but they are online to come out and 

18           we're awaiting responses to RFPs and getting 

19           the services awarded.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS:  I would 

21           also appreciate the opportunity to make this 

22           process for nonprofit organizations that 

23           already have been doing the work for many 

24           years in mental health services, for the 


                                                                   237

 1           process to be less robatic {sic}, more 

 2           transparent.  We have a lot of nonprofit 

 3           organizations and institutions that would 

 4           love to capitalize on this opportunity, yet 

 5           the allocation doesn't seem friendly to them.

 6                  How will you utilize the capital to 

 7           make them feel that they can apply for it and 

 8           that -- give them hope, right?  Because we 

 9           still have, after COVID, mental health, you 

10           and I can agree, has gotten worse.

11                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  We have 

12           put out a series of RFPs, I think it's about 

13           $10 million, to work with underserved 

14           communities that work exactly with those 

15           individuals.  Some of them are focused on 

16           suicide prevention; a lot of them are focused 

17           on youth.  And they work with agencies and 

18           groups that are not the traditional mental 

19           health system.  So for example, 

20           Community Life, which works with adolescents, 

21           there's something called Step A which works 

22           in the Cypress Hills areas.  

23                  So -- and there's another series of 

24           those RFPs which will be coming out as well.  


                                                                   238

 1           They're specifically geared to work with 

 2           communities that -- and with often grassroots 

 3           organizations to work with us to provide 

 4           services that are not the traditional 

 5           services.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN DE LOS SANTOS:  Thank you.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblyman 

 8           Maher.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAHER:  Thank you.

10                  Thank you all for your testimony and 

11           for answering so many of our questions.

12                  For Commissioner Neifeld, I just want 

13           to echo my colleagues on both sides of the 

14           aisle.  We do believe that 1.5 percent COLA 

15           is not enough.  We are absolutely going to 

16           advocate and hopefully in that final budget 

17           it's a minimum of 3.2.  That is our goal.

18                  But staying on that topic, it's my 

19           understanding that for integrated supportive 

20           housing there's 15 million that OPWDD funds.  

21           And with inflation going up, it seems similar 

22           to that 1.5 percent.  If we're looking to 

23           support that housing, why isn't that number 

24           going up with inflation?  It seems it 


                                                                   239

 1           probably needs to be doubled.

 2                  OPWDD COMMISSIONER NEIFELD:  This was 

 3           a question that was raised to me just 

 4           yesterday.  I think it's a great question.

 5                  I think what, you know, I committed to 

 6           doing when I was speaking to some of the 

 7           providers was going back and looking at the 

 8           pipeline of projects, understanding how over 

 9           the last almost 10 years that we've been 

10           administering the program, you know, how many 

11           programs -- how many projects are we 

12           awarding, have the number of units gone down, 

13           right, what does the pipeline look like, are 

14           there projects that are being left unfunded 

15           each year.  And then continuing to have those 

16           conversations with the Division of the 

17           Budget, the Executive and the Legislature on 

18           what we're able to do each year.

19                  So we need to do a little bit more 

20           research and digging into the question, but 

21           happy to do it and follow up.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAHER:  I'd love that.  

23           I'd love to see the data and then see where 

24           we are and on track and how we can 


                                                                   240

 1           potentially increase that funding.

 2                  Commissioner Sullivan, I just want to 

 3           say that I've read the Youth Mental Health 

 4           Listening Tour Report, and it was fantastic.  

 5           To see some of the recommendations from the 

 6           youth was amazing.  For me, what really 

 7           caught my eye was they want a seat at the 

 8           table.  You know, they want to be part of the 

 9           decision-making process.

10                  And because OASAS and the Office of 

11           Mental Health are married in so many ways -- 

12           and I know we talked about encouraging 

13           that -- my question for you is, do we have a 

14           seat at the table for a high-school-aged 

15           youth in terms of the Opioid Settlement 

16           Board?  I know I've gotten a list of names, 

17           but are any of those names an individual that 

18           is a high-school-aged youth?

19                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  None 

20           of those individuals are.  However, most of 

21           those individuals are nominated by elected 

22           officials, and so there's a three-year 

23           nomination which will be coming up fairly 

24           soon.  So, you know, certainly there is the 


                                                                   241

 1           opportunity to nominate somebody who's young.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAHER:  Would you support 

 3           that, a high-school-aged youth on the board, 

 4           helping to make decisions?

 5                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM: 

 6           Absolutely.  I mean, I think, you know, 

 7           including people with lived experience is 

 8           critical in the work that we do.  And we 

 9           actually just formed a new advisory panel 

10           called LEAP, for people with lived experience 

11           and living experience to have a voice at the 

12           table, to have my ear.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAHER:  Oh, fantastic. 

14           Hopefully this conversation and discussion 

15           can turn that thought into a reality.

16                  And again, thank you for your 

17           testimony and answering our questions today.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

19                  And now we have -- and there have been 

20           a lot of committee members, and that's why 

21           members have been coming and going -- 

22           Assemblyman Anderson.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANDERSON:  Thank you so 

24           much, Commissioners.  And thank you, 


                                                                   242

 1           Madam Chair, for this hearing today.  

 2                  I want to just ask a question for 

 3           Dr. Cunningham first.  I'm introducing a 

 4           piece of legislation that deals with making 

 5           sure that there's access to overdose 

 6           prevention drugs in residential spaces, 

 7           called the HOPE Act.  And I'm really 

 8           hopefully that some of the resources that are 

 9           being provided in the Executive Budget can be 

10           used towards that act.  And just learning -- 

11           interested in learning more about what the 

12           agency's doing to help prevent overdoses that 

13           occur in residential buildings.

14                  So that would be my first question.  

15           I'm going to try to get all my questions in 

16           and you all will answer.

17                  Now, I think this one is for 

18           Commissioner Sullivan.  Can you just talk a 

19           little bit about your efforts in making and 

20           involving and training local community 

21           members to help address the substance use 

22           disorder and mental health crisis across the 

23           state, some of the trainings that are 

24           happening to help those folks?  Programs like 


                                                                   243

 1           Engage, for example, how those programs are 

 2           doing in helping expand training.

 3                  And then the last question I think is 

 4           going to be for you, Commissioner Neifeld.  

 5           When we're looking at the issues of pediatric 

 6           drugs that are prescribed, a significant 

 7           number of kids only get care in schools 

 8           because they don't have primary care 

 9           physicians.  So I'm just wondering what 

10           resources are going to be available to make 

11           sure that students are having expanded 

12           eligibility and access to resources to be 

13           able to get treatment from primary care 

14           physicians in schools.

15                  So that might be a little bit for all 

16           of you all, but I did my questions and then 

17           you all will answer.

18                  OASAS COMMISSIONER CUNNINGHAM:  I'll 

19           start.

20                  So we're absolutely prioritizing 

21           efforts to expand access to medications and 

22           tools to reduce overdose deaths.  So that 

23           includes -- we have a portal online where 

24           anybody, programs or individuals, can order 


                                                                   244

 1           naloxone, fentanyl test strips or xylazine 

 2           test strips.  And we've already shipped out 

 3           70,000 naloxone kits, over 5 million fentanyl 

 4           test strips and 4 million xylazine test 

 5           strips.

 6                  So we are working with our programs, 

 7           including residential programs, and the 

 8           community at large.  Anybody can order them, 

 9           free of charge, and it will be shipped to 

10           them.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANDERSON:  Thank you, 

12           Commissioner.

13                  And then the second question for 

14           Commissioner Sullivan, please.

15                  OMH COMMISSIONER SULLIVAN:  Yeah, 

16           Project Engage is a very exciting project 

17           which works with individuals from the 

18           community being trained to be mental wellness 

19           workers in the community, members from the 

20           community.  

21                  The training involves mental health 

22           coaching, outreach, screening, et cetera.  

23           It's under an evidence-based program which is 

24           run by Dr. Milton Wainberg, and we are really 


                                                                   245

 1           watching it very closely.  It's going to 

 2           inform I think our plans for a mental health 

 3           paraprofessional system which will help 

 4           expand the mental health workforce.

 5                  So Project Engage does some really 

 6           great grassroots work, and it's at two sites 

 7           in New York City.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANDERSON:  I'm looking 

 9           forward to learning more.  And thank you, 

10           Commissioners, for all your answers.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

12                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay, that will 

13           complete Panel A.  Thank you so much, 

14           Commissioners, for joining us.

15                  Next we will have Denise Miranda, from 

16           the New York State Justice Center for the 

17           Protection of People with Special Needs.

18                  (Pause.)

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  I just want to 

20           encourage the commissioners who testified, 

21           can you please -- and the members, if you 

22           have additional questions, can you please 

23           take your conversations outside so we can 

24           move on with the hearing.


                                                                   246

 1                  SENATOR BROUK:  All right, folks, 

 2           we'll be starting the next panel, so if you 

 3           could respectfully scoot out.  Thank you.  

 4           That's an official term.  Thank you so much.

 5                  All right, so now we've got 10 minutes 

 6           to hear from Denise Miranda from the New York 

 7           State Justice Center for the Protection of 

 8           People with Special Needs.  Thanks.

 9                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  Good 

10           afternoon, Chairs Mannion, Brouk, Seawright, 

11           Gunther, Weinstein, as well as your 

12           distinguished colleagues of the Senate and 

13           Assembly.  

14                  My name is Denise Miranda, and I am 

15           the executive director of the New York State 

16           Justice Center for the Protection of People 

17           with Special Needs.  I'd like to thank you 

18           for the opportunity to testify regarding 

19           Governor Hochul's fiscal year 2025 

20           Executive Budget proposal.  

21                  This year the Justice Center marked an 

22           important milestone, the agency's 10-year 

23           anniversary.  For more than a decade now, 

24           New York has been home to the strongest 


                                                                   247

 1           protections in the country for individuals 

 2           with special needs.  

 3                  In that time, it may have been easy to 

 4           forget what brought us to the creation of the 

 5           Justice Center.  Before the agency's 

 6           existence, scathing reports exposed a system 

 7           that was ripe for abuse. Known offenders were 

 8           rarely held accountable for their actions.  

 9           Instead, they were shuffled from program to 

10           program, finding new potential victims with 

11           each move.  The Legislature knew an overhaul 

12           was overdue.  

13                  The Justice Center has substantiated 

14           tens of thousands of cases in the last decade 

15           of service, holding subjects responsible for 

16           egregious conduct.  

17                  (Automated voice:  "Sorry, could you 

18           say that again?")

19                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  Egregious 

20           conduct.  

21                  (Laughter.)

22                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  We've 

23           prevented violent criminals from entering the 

24           workforce and barred nearly 1,000 of the 


                                                                   248

 1           worst offenders from working with vulnerable 

 2           populations.  We've also tracked trends and 

 3           produced materials that can help prevent 

 4           incidents from happening.  

 5                  It might be easy to believe that abuse 

 6           and neglect has been eradicated because of 

 7           all of this work.  Unfortunately, we continue 

 8           to investigate shocking incidents.  In the 

 9           past year alone we've substantiated cases 

10           involving brutal physical assault, rape, and 

11           severe neglect.  They're grim reminders of 

12           just how important the Justice Center work 

13           remains.  

14                  Further, we know that former staff 

15           members substantiated for the worst cases of 

16           abuse and neglect have attempted to regain 

17           employment nearly 300 times.  Only the 

18           Justice Center stood between them and 

19           individuals with special needs.  

20                  I think it's important to point out 

21           that stopping bad actors from working in or 

22           reentering the workforce does not just help 

23           individuals receiving services, it also makes 

24           the system safer for the tens of thousands of 


                                                                   249

 1           dedicated direct care professionals.  The 

 2           vast majority of staff members across the 

 3           state are incredibly resilient and dedicated 

 4           to New Yorkers with special needs.  They 

 5           deliver exceptional care under very difficult 

 6           circumstances.  

 7                  Recognizing the unprecedented stress 

 8           on the workforce, the Justice Center is 

 9           examining each case through a workforce 

10           crisis lens.  This will allow us to determine 

11           if an incident occurred because of an 

12           isolated issue or a systemic concern that 

13           needs to be addressed.  

14                  Additionally, the Justice Center's 

15           proposed budget allocates funding that will 

16           allow the agency to take further steps to 

17           reduce case cycle time, which lessens the 

18           burden on the workforce.  This year's 

19           Executive Budget includes $1.3 million in 

20           additional state operations funding.  This 

21           money will provide 18 FTEs, allowing the 

22           agency to continue our efforts to reduce 

23           cycle times.  

24                  We are mindful of the critical role we 


                                                                   250

 1           can play in ensuring accountability and 

 2           high-quality care, which requires quick 

 3           resolution to cases.  

 4                  As we look ahead to the next decade of 

 5           service, we know the core mission of our work 

 6           will carry on.  But beyond that, we want to 

 7           leverage our wealth of data to stop incidents 

 8           from happening.  Intense trend analysis and 

 9           an evaluation of what providers and staff 

10           need to train and support the next generation 

11           of the workforce will be a focus of our 

12           agency.  

13                  In addition, we understand the key 

14           role stakeholders play in the success of the 

15           agency, which is why we will be working to 

16           strengthen these partnerships and build new 

17           ones.  We started this initiative last year 

18           with a series of roundtables, where we peeled 

19           back the good and the bad, so we can move 

20           forward together.  

21                  We regularly interact with statewide 

22           advocacy organizations, self-advocates, 

23           families, labor unions, and members of our 

24           advisory council to better inform our work 


                                                                   251

 1           and to find more innovative ways to support 

 2           staff in the field.  

 3                  We also present to providers all 

 4           throughout the state about Justice Center 

 5           processes and provide opportunities for 

 6           candid conversations with the direct care 

 7           workforce.  We are eager to continue our 

 8           collective work to enrich the lives of the 

 9           people receiving services.  

10                  The Justice Center appreciates your 

11           partnership in our mission to protect all 

12           vulnerable New Yorkers, and I now welcome 

13           your questions.

14                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you so much.

15                  First we will start with 

16           Senator Mannion.

17                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you, Director.

18                  What we've seen particularly at OPWDD 

19           is a decline in rates for staffing.  And, you 

20           know, a high number of vacant positions that 

21           are out there, high turnover.  So with the 

22           declining rates of staffing across multiple 

23           facilities, has this affected the rates of 

24           reportable incidents or substantiated cases?


                                                                   252

 1                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  Sure, so 

 2           thank you for that question.  Obviously the 

 3           workforce is dealing with unprecedented 

 4           challenges right now, right, a host of which 

 5           have been discussed earlier.  I think one of 

 6           the things that's been very consistent about 

 7           the agency is the number of reports that come 

 8           in and the percentages of those reports that 

 9           are substantiated.  Somewhere between 35 and 

10           38 percent of the cases that are abuse and 

11           neglect investigations actually result in a 

12           substantiation.

13                  The workforce -- you know, obviously 

14           we spent a lot of time earlier today talking 

15           about many of the challenges.  But I think, 

16           you know, besides the obvious compensation 

17           conversation, we have to talk about mandatory 

18           overtime, we have to talk about education, we 

19           have to talk about lack of supervision.  And 

20           these are all challenges that have been 

21           well-documented well before the creation of 

22           the Justice Center.

23                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you.  Have we 

24           seen any changes as we've come out of the 


                                                                   253

 1           pandemic related to the reportable cases or 

 2           substantiated cases, you know, in the last, 

 3           let's say, year and a half, two years or so?

 4                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  Sure.  So 

 5           during the pandemic we did notice a decrease 

 6           in reporting, and we attribute a lot of that 

 7           decrease to the fact that family members and 

 8           visitors were not able to often see and visit 

 9           loved ones, and they are a source of 

10           reporting for the agency.

11                  The numbers since then have resumed.  

12           We receive approximately 85,000 to 90,000 

13           calls a year.  Obviously the overwhelming 

14           majority of those cases are not abuse and 

15           neglect.  But the cases are now returning to 

16           the original pre-pandemic level, which is 

17           about 12,000, 11,000 a year.

18                  SENATOR MANNION:  And as far as the 

19           Justice Center's own staffing, you mentioned 

20           the funding available and the number of FTEs.  

21           Is -- can you just make a comment on that as 

22           far as the necessity or the ability to do it 

23           or where we are right now or as we approach 

24           this budget season compared to historically?


                                                                   254

 1                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  Sure.  So 

 2           the $1.3 million that are new allocated funds 

 3           will allow for 18 FTEs.  Those resources will 

 4           be dedicated primarily to our investigatory 

 5           staff as well as our prevention efforts here 

 6           at the agency.

 7                  We dedicate those resources to 

 8           investigations primarily because we recognize 

 9           the importance of timely and efficient 

10           investigations.  While we do not make any 

11           decisions or play any role in the employee 

12           discipline process, we do realize that 

13           investigations need to conclude timely so 

14           that employers can make appropriate decisions 

15           based on the outcomes.

16                  So our ability to put more resources 

17           on the ground to assist the many 

18           investigators at the agency who are 

19           tirelessly working every single day will be 

20           of great relief I think for the agency as 

21           well as for the providers and all 

22           stakeholders -- and individuals, obviously, 

23           receiving services.

24                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you, Director.


                                                                   255

 1                  Thank you, Madam Chair.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

 3           Assemblymember Seawright.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you, 

 5           Chair Weinstein.

 6                  And thank you, Director, for your 

 7           testimony.  

 8                  Would you say there was a correlation 

 9           between the massive job hemorrhage that we're 

10           seeing and the number of cases that you see 

11           as a result?

12                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  So as I 

13           mentioned before, you know, the creation of 

14           the Justice Center right now dates back to 

15           2013, and there was a report issued by 

16           Clarence Sundram which really enumerated many 

17           of the factors that were contributing to the 

18           workforce crisis that was in 2011-2012.  

19           Right?  Many of those same pressures and 

20           difficulties exist today.  The numbers remain 

21           relatively consistent with respect to the 

22           number of cases that are called in, the types 

23           of cases that we receive, and the rates of 

24           substantiation.


                                                                   256

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  I'm hearing 

 2           from various people around the state.  Here's 

 3           one letter I received:  "My cousin was abused 

 4           in a group home 17 days ago.  Why did the 

 5           Justice Center refuse to investigate because 

 6           he is nonverbal?  This is discrimination 

 7           against the most disabled.  This is not 

 8           unique.  I hear from other families this is 

 9           happening.  He went to the hospital, had a 

10           broken clavicle.  His family is afraid to let 

11           him go back to a group home."

12                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  So let me 

13           start by saying that it's the Justice 

14           Center's specialty and expertise.  We do 

15           investigate cases for nonverbal individuals 

16           receiving services.  We investigate hundreds 

17           of cases every single year for people who 

18           are, as you describe, nonverbal.

19                  So I can assure you that no 

20           investigation, no case is turned away because 

21           of those factors.  That's what's unique to 

22           the Justice Center, the expertise that we've 

23           been able to develop making sure that we're 

24           able to support individuals with special 


                                                                   257

 1           needs, and interviewing techniques, 

 2           technology, et cetera.

 3                  So I'd be more than happy, 

 4           Assemblymember, to follow up offline with 

 5           respect to this particular constituent and 

 6           have further discussion to make sure that we 

 7           can, number one, clarify what our process is 

 8           and make sure that the case is guided 

 9           accordingly.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  And thank 

11           you for that.

12                  Can you provide a number for the 

13           number of DSPs that were suspended from their 

14           work because of unsubstantiated allegations 

15           through the Justice Center?

16                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  No, we 

17           don't have that data available, but I'm happy 

18           to follow up.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  How can we 

20           as a Legislature assist you to lessen the 

21           burden of large caseloads and keep 

22           New Yorkers with disabilities safer?

23                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  So I 

24           think, you know, the Justice Center is really 


                                                                   258

 1           committed to making sure that there is 

 2           transparency with respect to our operations.  

 3           We do a Justice Center summit; last year we 

 4           had over 1500 people attend.  We do 90 

 5           presentations a year.  I speak with labor 

 6           organizations, provider associations, I speak 

 7           directly with the workforce.

 8                  You know, we see the Legislature as a 

 9           partner in making sure that we're explaining 

10           the purpose, the jurisdiction of the agency, 

11           and the processes.  So to demystify, you 

12           know, some of the misconceptions that exist 

13           out there.  So certainly we welcome the 

14           opportunity to speak with members in your 

15           particular district and share some more 

16           information about how we work and some of the 

17           processes that are in place.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblyman 

20           Eachus.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN EACHUS:  Thank you, 

22           Madam Chair.

23                  For 37 years I've been involved with 

24           OMH, from the perspective of a parent and 


                                                                   259

 1           of course now also as an Assemblyperson.  And 

 2           I'm glad you're here, because I've never 

 3           heard of you.  And I just from your 

 4           discussion here, you do amazing work, and I 

 5           appreciate what you and the Justice Center 

 6           do.

 7                  The one thing that I would like to 

 8           ask, though, is you talk about "we regularly 

 9           interact with statewide advocacy 

10           organizations, self-advocates, families, 

11           labor unions and members of our advisory 

12           council."  I fall into a couple of those 

13           categories; I'd be very pleased to get 

14           notifications from you and go to these 

15           meetings that you hold and be an active part 

16           of this.

17                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  Well, we 

18           will certainly make sure that you receive all 

19           the notifications.  And I can tell you that 

20           in April we will be hosting our second online 

21           roundtable summit, Justice Center summit.  

22           It's a two-day event where we invite all the 

23           stakeholders in all the various groups that 

24           you mentioned, right, to come and to ask 


                                                                   260

 1           questions, while we also go through all of 

 2           our operations.  

 3                  It's a two-day event, it's extremely 

 4           informative, it's been very well attended, 

 5           and so we will certainly make sure that we 

 6           provide your office with that information.  

 7           And it's in April.

 8                  ASSEMBLYMAN EACHUS:  I appreciate that 

 9           very much.  Thank you.

10                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  Sure.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

12                  SENATOR BROUK:  Wonderful.  Thank you 

13           so much.  That will conclude questioning for 

14           this panel.  Thank you.

15                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  Thank 

16           you.

17                  SENATOR BROUK:  The next panel will 

18           have -- sorry, we do have one question.

19                  (Laughter.)

20                  SENATOR BROUK:  Just testing you, see 

21           how quickly you can get going.  All right, 

22           Senator Webb, the floor is yours.

23                  SENATOR WEBB:  Thank you, Madam Chair.

24                  I just have a question with regards to 


                                                                   261

 1           the investigation process.  So let's say, you 

 2           know, there's an agency in our respective 

 3           district that's under review.  How is the 

 4           community at large notified of the 

 5           outcomes -- not just simply the families that 

 6           maybe filed the complaint, but the community 

 7           at large?

 8                  And the reason why I ask that is that 

 9           I know the question was asked by one of my 

10           colleagues on how we can provide support, and 

11           one of the ways that we provide support as 

12           legislators is providing funding.  And so 

13           knowing that there are organizations in our 

14           communities that are providing supports to 

15           residents who have significant special needs, 

16           and your agency is, you know, involved in the 

17           investigations, like how -- like take me 

18           through like your investigative process.  

19           Like how does that work?  Like how would we 

20           know that, for instance, if we gave money to 

21           an agency that was found to be mistreating 

22           clients -- do you know what I mean?  Like if 

23           you could take us through that.

24                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  So sure.


                                                                   262

 1                  The process for an investigation 

 2           starts typically with a call made to our call 

 3           center.  We operate a 24-hour, 7-day-a-week 

 4           call center operation.  There are mandated 

 5           reporters within the community and within the 

 6           various facilities under our jurisdiction; 

 7           they're obligated to report any suspicion of 

 8           abuse and neglect.

 9                  Those cases will come in, we will make 

10           the appropriate notifications at that point 

11           to the families and make sure that they're 

12           obviously aware of the processes.  And 

13           notifications will also go out to the 

14           provider to make sure that safety planning 

15           occurs immediately.

16                  The case will then get assigned to an 

17           investigator, assuming it is an abuse and 

18           neglect allegation, and the field staff will 

19           work that case up.  That can include speaking 

20           to various witnesses, perhaps engagement with 

21           law enforcement, speaking with employers at 

22           the actual provider situation, and obviously 

23           interviewing witnesses, individuals receiving 

24           services.


                                                                   263

 1                  Once the case -- the investigation is 

 2           closed, that case moves over to our Office of 

 3           General Counsel.  And the Office of General 

 4           Counsel will make a determination as to 

 5           whether that case is substantiated or not.  

 6           They will also make a determination with 

 7           respect to the category level.  Category 1 is 

 8           our most serious and egregious category 

 9           level.  It is a permanent bar to employment 

10           in any of the settings under our 

11           jurisdiction.  These are egregious cases of 

12           sexual abuse, physical abuse, sexual 

13           assaults, rapes.

14                  Obviously very few cases fall into 

15           Category 1, but we've got Category 2, 3 and 

16           4.

17                  Once a case is substantiated or the 

18           determination is made by the Office of 

19           General Counsel, a notification goes out to 

20           the provider, and notifications will also go 

21           out to the family member.

22                  Now, I know your question I think was 

23           focused on sort of sharing that information 

24           at large, but what I will say is that 


                                                                   264

 1           statutorily there are some privacy provisions 

 2           within the statute that limit how much 

 3           information we're able to share.  But 

 4           notifications do go out to the provider as 

 5           well as the family.

 6                  SENATOR WEBB:  Thank you.

 7                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay, now thank you.

 8                  (Laughter.)

 9                  EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MIRANDA:  Thank 

10           you.

11                  SENATOR BROUK:  Now we will move to 

12           Panel B.  I'm calling it even if they raise 

13           their hand.

14                  So on Panel B we have the New York 

15           State Conference of Local Mental Hygiene 

16           Directors, Mental Health Association in 

17           New York State, and the National Alliance on 

18           Mental Illness for New York State.

19                  So just as a reminder, each panelist 

20           will have three minutes for their testimony, 

21           and then every member, regardless of chair 

22           position, will have three minutes for 

23           questioning of the entire panel.  

24                  So let's -- I'll start you off, and 


                                                                   265

 1           then you can duke out who does the second and 

 2           third.  But Courtney David, executive 

 3           director for the Conference of Local 

 4           Mental Hygiene Directors.

 5                  MS. DAVID:  Thank you so much.

 6                  Good afternoon, Chair Weinstein, 

 7           committee chairs and other distinguished 

 8           committee members.  Thank you for the 

 9           opportunity to testify today regarding the 

10           Governor's Executive Budget proposal.  

11                  My name is Courtney David.  I'm the 

12           executive director of the New York State 

13           conference of Local Mental Hygiene Directors.  

14           The conference represents the directors of 

15           community services for the 57 counties and 

16           the City of New York.  The DCSs have 

17           statutory responsibility for the cross-system 

18           management of the local mental hygiene system 

19           for the services impacting adults and 

20           children with mental illness, substance use 

21           disorder, and intellectual and developmental 

22           disabilities.

23                  As you continue to explore effective 

24           policy approaches to reduce the number of 


                                                                   266

 1           individuals with serious mental illness from 

 2           coming into contact with the criminal justice 

 3           system, one major issue continues to hinder 

 4           these efforts -- the state's competency 

 5           restoration process.

 6                  Competency restoration is mandated by 

 7           the court when an individual who's charged 

 8           with a crime is found to be unable to 

 9           understand the proceedings or is unable to 

10           aid in their own defense due to an active 

11           mental illness or intellectual disability.  

12           Section 730 of the state's Criminal Procedure 

13           Law governs this process.

14                  Restoration services typically involve 

15           admission to a forensic unit and include 

16           administration of medication, education on 

17           the criminal justice system, and other 

18           services only to help stabilize an individual 

19           to be competent to stand trial.  However, 

20           some judges believe they are helping 

21           defendants obtain appropriate treatment by 

22           issuing these orders.

23                  It is estimated that between a quarter 

24           and two-thirds of all defendants mandated for 


                                                                   267

 1           restoration cycle through the system multiple 

 2           times on the same charge, equating to 

 3           hundreds of people each year.  Currently 

 4           there is no requirement for OMH to consult 

 5           with the county mental health departments on 

 6           treatment planning, leaving decision making 

 7           up to the state's forensic providers.

 8                  While the majority of 730 defendants 

 9           can be restored within 90 to 150 days, there 

10           have been several cases where defendants have 

11           been held in restoration for three, six or 

12           even 10 years.  This practice leads to 

13           further decompensation.

14                  These lengthy confinements also 

15           violate the Americans with Disabilities Act, 

16           and other states have begun to reexamine and 

17           update their laws to avoid future legal 

18           action.

19                  The daily rates for forensic placement 

20           range from 1300 to over 1500 dollars per day.  

21           In 2023, Oneida County paid $3.9 million, 

22           with a projected increase of 4.4 million this 

23           year -- and they are not alone.

24                  Since 2020 the state has charged the 


                                                                   268

 1           counties 100 percent of these costs, 

 2           siphoning millions of dollars from the local 

 3           mental hygiene system.  The Governor's 

 4           Executive Budget proposal seeks to expand 

 5           this forensic capacity in fiscal year 2025.

 6                  To offer a solution, we and our 

 7           colleagues at the New York State Association 

 8           of Counties have proposed amendments to the 

 9           statutory framework that governs this 

10           process.  Chairs Brouk and Gunther have also 

11           acknowledged the importance of these reforms, 

12           and we thank them for their continued support 

13           and sponsorship of our bill.

14                  Therefore, we strongly urge you to 

15           enact these reforms as part of this year's 

16           final budget so that 730 defendants are 

17           provided a pathway to receive appropriate 

18           mental health treatment and ensure millions 

19           of county dollars directed to the state's 

20           General Fund will be available for 

21           reinvestment back into the community.

22                  Thank you.

23                  MR. SHAPIRO:  Good afternoon, 

24           Assemblywoman Weinstein, Senator Brouk, 


                                                                   269

 1           Assemblywoman Gunther, and members of the 

 2           committee.  Thank you for the opportunity to 

 3           provide testimony.

 4                  My name is Matthew Shapiro.  I'm the 

 5           senior director of government affairs for the 

 6           New York State chapter of NAMI, the National 

 7           Alliance on Mental Illness, the nation's 

 8           largest grassroots organization dedicated to 

 9           improving the lives of individuals and 

10           families impacted by mental illness.

11                  NAMI-New York State envisions a world 

12           where all people affected by mental illness 

13           live healthy, fulfilling lives, supported by 

14           a community that cares.  And I'm excited for 

15           the opportunity today to talk about how we 

16           can build that community that cares for the 

17           one in four families like mine who are 

18           affected by a diagnosable psychiatric 

19           disorder, as well as the countless 

20           New Yorkers who are facing mental health 

21           challenges. 

22                  Despite the positive momentum 

23           generated by last year's budget, too many 

24           New Yorkers continue to struggle to access 


                                                                   270

 1           psychiatric services that are most 

 2           appropriate for them.  Community behavioral 

 3           health providers continue to hemorrhage staff 

 4           as our dedicated workforce struggles with 

 5           caseloads that are unmanageable and, in too 

 6           many examples, not paid a living wage for 

 7           their herculean efforts.

 8                  Throughout New York our correctional 

 9           system remains disproportionately populated 

10           by people living with a mental illness or 

11           substance use disorder who deserve treatment, 

12           not jails, and in communities, not cages.

13                  New York's future, our youth, are in 

14           crisis and facing negative mental health 

15           stresses that would have been unimaginable 

16           just a decade ago.  It's clear more has to be 

17           done.  And there's a lot to celebrate in 

18           Governor Hochul's budget -- which once again 

19           adopts policy recommendations that we've been 

20           making for years -- and boldly aims to 

21           increase access for all those on the broad 

22           spectrum of psychiatric disorders.

23                  Our written testimony has our six 

24           focus areas; I want to focus on two very 


                                                                   271

 1           quickly.

 2                  Number one, the need for psychiatric 

 3           beds.  It's not a popular topic around here, 

 4           but to be honest, those beds are very much 

 5           needed.  My family needed those beds.  On 

 6           three different occasions I've had to bring 

 7           my mom into a psychiatric emergency room and 

 8           have her admitted into the hospital.  It's 

 9           not a pleasant experience, I assure you; it's 

10           nothing that any family member wants to do.  

11           But it's at times something that we need to 

12           do to get her the necessary care.

13                  But as unpleasant as that experience 

14           was, our family is among one of the lucky 

15           ones.  As you said, Assemblywoman Gunther, 

16           one of the consequences that we're seeing 

17           from this are people being moved to another 

18           part of the state to access a bed.  And this 

19           separates their family from the recovery 

20           process.

21                  We were so lucky that we were able to 

22           support my mom all three times she was 

23           hospitalized.  And families that don't have 

24           that opportunity have to make great 


                                                                   272

 1           sacrifices to be a part of the process.  We 

 2           need to do better by them.

 3                  I only have 15 seconds, but we also 

 4           very broadly support the criminal justice 

 5           efforts that are in the budget, especially 

 6           making 988 more equitable and including 

 7           maternal mental health services.  Again, 

 8           Senator Brouk, you've been such a leader on 

 9           this.  

10                  We also greatly support the expansion 

11           of mental health courts.

12                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Thank you.  Thank you 

13           very much.  Thank you, I really appreciate 

14           being here.

15                  My name is Glenn Liebman.  I'm the 

16           director of the Mental Health Association of 

17           New York State, MHANYS.  This is my 

18           20th year, and I've been testifying for 

19           20 years.  And, you know, I just want to say 

20           that you have been really instrumental in so 

21           many of the changes, so many of the positive 

22           changes that have happened over that time 

23           period.  

24                  So our organization is comprised of 


                                                                   273

 1           26 affiliates in 52 counties throughout 

 2           New York State.  We largely provide 

 3           community-based mental health services, but 

 4           we also spend a lot of time on advocacy and 

 5           training and education as well.

 6                  So what I want to say is that, you 

 7           know, the Governor said that -- in the State 

 8           of the State, that mental health is the 

 9           defining challenge of our time.  Couldn't 

10           agree more.  Finally we have a Governor who's 

11           talking about this.  And the funding she's 

12           put forward around this has been fantastic.

13                  But, you know, like all of you, I'm 

14           going to echo -- you know, what we're hearing 

15           is that you have this great ship, you're 

16           steering this ship, you want to make the 

17           changes, and we support that 100 percent.  

18           But if you don't have the crew to run that 

19           ship, how are you going to succeed?  

20                  So this is why we are working so hard 

21           around the COLA.  So we have about 14 issues 

22           that we're listing, but we're really focused 

23           very much on a COLA and a workforce 

24           investment.


                                                                   274

 1                  So, you know, as the Governor added 

 2           1.5 in the budget -- and that's appreciated, 

 3           it's something.  We need a lot more.  And 

 4           we're urging your support for an additional 

 5           1.7 percent just to get to the 3.2 just for 

 6           the CPI.  That's what we want, and certainly 

 7           we support a lot more.

 8                  And also -- and I appreciate, 

 9           Assemblymember Kelles, you were going through 

10           the many years that we didn't get funding 

11           for, you know, any sort of support.  And the 

12           reality is we've lost over $600 million in 

13           that time frame -- $600 million that would 

14           have gone to mental health has instead gone 

15           to roads and bridges and other things.  I 

16           just imagine how much different our 

17           behavioral health system would look like if 

18           we had that kind of money.  It would be 

19           remarkable.  We wouldn't have to worry 

20           about -- I mean, we'd worry a lot less about 

21           homelessness, incarceration.  People would be 

22           better served around this system.

23                  So it's sad that we still have to deal 

24           with this.  We're dealing with the tsunami, 


                                                                   275

 1           the turnover, the vacancy rate.  It's just 

 2           really, really sad.

 3                  And there are a few other things -- we 

 4           don't want to sit there and say, you know, 

 5           COLA, COLA, COLA, because there are other 

 6           things that we talk about as well.  

 7                  Assemblymember Gunther has introduced 

 8           a pension bill that studies how -- the impact 

 9           to pensions for not-for-profits.  We have 

10           800,000 people in the nonprofit sector.  We 

11           have had nothing in terms of a pension or a 

12           retirement system for the population.  We 

13           need that.  So we very strongly support the 

14           study bill.

15                  We also have a series of 

16           recommendations around a pipeline bill, 

17           qualified mental health associations -- which 

18           Commissioner Sullivan briefly referenced.  

19           But those are the paraprofessionals that we 

20           need to get into our field.  People talk 

21           about mental health all the time now.  We 

22           have to get young people vested in our field.

23                  So thank you very much.

24                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you all so much.


                                                                   276

 1                  We're going to start the questioning 

 2           on the Senate side for three minutes with 

 3           Senator Palumbo.

 4                  SENATOR PALUMBO:  Thank you, 

 5           Chairwoman.  How are you all?  Nice to see 

 6           you.

 7                  MULTIPLE PANELISTS:  Good.  Good to 

 8           see you, Senator.

 9                  SENATOR PALUMBO:  I just started 

10           thinking about these questions regarding the 

11           COLA, Mr. Liebman.  So there were some -- and 

12           I believe there were some adjustments, there 

13           was -- in the fiscal year '23, that there was 

14           a 5.4 percent I believe enacted for that year 

15           in cost-of-living adjustments, and 4 percent 

16           this year.

17                  And so this 1.5 percent is over that 

18           as well, adjusting for inflation -- or is it 

19           not?  I just don't understand --

20                  MR. LIEBMAN:  No, that's okay.  

21                  So the 5.4 -- and by the way, you 

22           know, Governor Hochul deserves a lot of 

23           credit because she has been the only 

24           Governor in the last three who's actually 


                                                                   277

 1           given a cost-of-living adjustment.  So that's 

 2           appreciated.

 3                  So the 5.4 percent was two years ago.  

 4           Last year ended up being 4 percent; you added 

 5           1.5 percent from the 2.5 percent she added.  

 6           Now, this year, she's put in 1.5 percent for 

 7           this year.  So we're trying to get to the 

 8           point where we can get to the 3.2 percent so 

 9           we can at least meet the need for -- you 

10           know, around the CPI.  So that's -- yeah.

11                  SENATOR PALUMBO:  Sure, that's great.

12                  And I know -- I mean, these have been 

13           just ongoing issues, of course, with other 

14           areas of employment getting minimum wage 

15           hikes and so forth.  And with the tremendous 

16           work that folks do in this field -- you know, 

17           God's work, really -- we need to make sure 

18           that we fully fund it.  So I do agree with 

19           you that that cost-of-living adjustment is 

20           nice so it doesn't become a Hunger Games 

21           where you're back here every year asking for 

22           a little bit more, and a little bit more, and 

23           a little bit more.  To make this a statutory 

24           increase would be a wonderful thing.


                                                                   278

 1                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Thank you for that 

 2           comment, Senator.  Really appreciate it, 

 3           because it's so true.  And all of you have 

 4           articulated so well why our direct care 

 5           workforce, they love what they do.  They're 

 6           mission-driven.  But they've got to put food 

 7           on the table.  You know, they really have to 

 8           put food on the table.  And you can be all 

 9           the mission-driven you want -- I'm a -- my 

10           son is a direct care worker, so I know.  You 

11           can put everything you want into that and all 

12           that mission, but the reality is you can go 

13           across the street to McDonald's and make more 

14           money than you do as a direct care worker in 

15           our fields.  So that's got to change.

16                  SENATOR PALUMBO:  Sure.  And it's such 

17           tough work that you -- that folks in your 

18           field are doing.  We certainly respect that.

19                  But thank you for your comments.

20                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Thank you, Senator.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblywoman 

22           Gunther.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  (Mic off.)  

24           Well, my first thing is about the COLA.  You 


                                                                   279

 1           know, where -- am I on?  I'm not.

 2                  UNIDENTIFIED PANELIST:  You're always 

 3           on.

 4                  (Laughter.)

 5                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  I'm always on, 

 6           yeah.  If that's good or bad, I don't know.

 7                  UNIDENTIFIED PANELIST:  It's good.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Anyway, the 

 9           first thing that we're going to talk about is 

10           the COLA.  You know, we were offered a 

11           smaller COLA.  Now we're up to 3.2 percent.  

12           And I just want to understand what that would 

13           mean to somebody that's working in the mental 

14           health field.  What's the average salary, and 

15           what does 3.2 percent -- I think that's an 

16           important question.

17                  MR. LIEBMAN:  So if I could answer 

18           that, right now we're at 1.5 percent.  So we 

19           want to get to the 3.2 percent.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  We want to get 

21           to 3.2.  But even at 3.2 --

22                  MR. LIEBMAN:  So we need that 

23           1.7 percent.  

24                  So, you know, I think it was 


                                                                   280

 1           Assemblyman Bores who said would you -- what 

 2           would that mean if you got a larger COLA.  

 3           The reality is 3.2 percent is nice, and it 

 4           will help, but you know this:  It's not going 

 5           to keep people in the field for long-term.  

 6           We need a sustainable COLA.  

 7                  We need -- you know, Senator Brouk has 

 8           legislation out there about making the COLA 

 9           standard.  But we also need those long-term 

10           solutions like you have on the pension idea.  

11           And, you know, we have to figure out how we 

12           can keep people in our field.  These COLAs 

13           are important, but -- you know, and again, 

14           11 percent over the last three years, that's 

15           something, and that's going to be helpful.  

16           But we need something long-term and 

17           sustainable.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  The next one 

19           is about, you know, we're increasing the 

20           number of mental health beds across New York 

21           State, which is important because we do need 

22           a length of stay.  But -- and also, you know, 

23           this can get someone back on their feet.

24                  But what happens after discharge is 


                                                                   281

 1           what the problem is.  And that's a big 

 2           problem.  So, you know, people keep cycling 

 3           in, cycling in.  So it's very important to 

 4           talk about that and see what -- you know, we 

 5           have to make some changes.

 6                  MR. SHAPIRO:  Right.  Again, what we 

 7           want to see, Assemblywoman, is a coordinated, 

 8           you know, care service.  So, you know, 

 9           someone who needs hospital services today 

10           hopefully will need community services 

11           tomorrow, they can get out and thrive in the 

12           community.

13                  The essential thing is connecting them 

14           to the community providers.  And, you know, 

15           again, this is an area where the Governor and 

16           OMH have made great strides in creating these 

17           teams, these coordination teams that connect 

18           people.  But we still want to see the type of 

19           admission standards and discharge standards 

20           that NAMI expects to see.  You know, we still 

21           have too many hospitals that are diverting 

22           people away rather than admit them.  They 

23           discharge them before they're ready.  

24                  Again, I've experienced this three 


                                                                   282

 1           times with my mom.  In one example, I think 

 2           they discharged her way too early -- she was 

 3           back a month later.  And, you know, these are 

 4           the recycling things that we see and we're 

 5           trying to prevent.

 6                  So again, we're going to be providing 

 7           OMH with the recommendations that we have for 

 8           admission and discharge standards and, you 

 9           know, work better to coordinate care and get 

10           people connected to community services.  It's 

11           vital.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Well, the 

13           short length of stay is -- they really 

14           impact -- sometimes they're giving 

15           medications and they don't see what the 

16           efficacy is of the medications.  And so 

17           that's why we keep circling back round and 

18           round and round.

19                  You know, what about -- you know, it's 

20           very difficult --

21                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Time is up.

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  My time is up?

23                  (Laughter.)

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  I just wanted 


                                                                   283

 1           to talk a little bit about pensions.

 2                  (Laughter.)

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  To the Senate.

 4                  SENATOR BROUK:  Great.  Thank you all 

 5           so much for being here and everything that 

 6           you're doing every day to advocate for more 

 7           mental health resources.

 8                  I know we've talked a lot today about 

 9           COLA, but it's that time of year.  So I'm 

10           going to talk about that again.  I think 

11           hopefully we've made the case clear as to why 

12           I think a lot of folks are talking about 

13           needing more in this cost-of-living 

14           adjustment.  

15                  But one thing I'm curious about is, 

16           you know, we talk about recruitment and 

17           retention for how these adjustments have been 

18           able to help workforce-wise.  How quickly do 

19           you -- have some of the organizations that 

20           you represent or work with, how quickly can 

21           they see the effects of that?  In other 

22           words, have we already seen shifts in 

23           retention once folks knew that these COLAs 

24           were coming?  Or was it -- was it too 


                                                                   284

 1           difficult and, you know, people were still 

 2           leaving because it wasn't necessarily an 

 3           assured thing that it was going to happen 

 4           every year?  Have we seen any effects of it?

 5                  MR. LIEBMAN:  So I just had one of our 

 6           other agencies that are testifying today, the 

 7           Association for Community Living, has done a 

 8           great job in surveying the field and, you 

 9           know, I'll let them speak to it.  But I 

10           really think that it has had an impact in 

11           terms of retention.  

12                  It really -- you know, the numbers -- 

13           yes, the numbers are still way too high and 

14           our field still is starving for more funding.  

15           But it has sort of turned the tide a little 

16           bit.  And the fact that we've had consistent 

17           COLAs for the last three years, hopefully 

18           this year again, the 3.2 -- will be something 

19           that will help turn the tide.  But the 

20           reality, as you know, Senator, is we need a 

21           lot more.  We need a real strong investment 

22           around mental health beyond just the 

23           workforce piece.

24                  MR. SHAPIRO:  You know, and one other 


                                                                   285

 1           thing, too.  We talk about diversifying the 

 2           field too, and I want to thank you, 

 3           Senator Brouk, for introducing a bill that 

 4           would eliminate the social work exam, which 

 5           separates a lot of foreign-language providers 

 6           out of the system.  And we knew that 

 7           culturally competent care is needed and we 

 8           need to diversify the system.

 9                  So, you know, obviously COLAs and 

10           financially supporting the system is 

11           important, but also looking at ways like you 

12           have to diversify the system and make it more 

13           inclusive.

14                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  

15                  And just to put a plug in for the 

16           bill, that would create a statutory COLA 

17           every year.  But I think you could also maybe 

18           help us illuminate what that means to your 

19           field, you know, knowing that something is 

20           going to happen every year.  I imagine even 

21           after three or four years of getting a COLA, 

22           individuals in this -- in these fields still 

23           don't think it's a guarantee every year.

24                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Absolutely, yup.  No, 


                                                                   286

 1           you're absolutely right.  And we do have to 

 2           have that passed, signed into law.  It's a 

 3           clear -- a major priority for us.  So thank 

 4           you for sponsoring the bill.

 5                  SENATOR BROUK:  Beautifully said.  

 6                  (Laughter.)

 7                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblyman 

 9           Keith Brown.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  Thank you, 

11           Chair.  Thank you all for being here and for 

12           the work that you do.

13                  I'm going to shift gears a little bit.  

14           My question is related to the legalization of 

15           marijuana.  Have your members seen an uptick 

16           in mental health illness as a result of 

17           adults or children smoking marijuana?

18                  MR. SHAPIRO:  I don't know if anybody 

19           wants --

20                  MS. DAVID:  We don't have any 

21           statistics on that.

22                  MR. SHAPIRO:  Yeah.  You know, we 

23           don't provide direct services, so yeah, we 

24           don't have any statistics about that.


                                                                   287

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  Okay.

 2                  MR. LIEBMAN:  You know, I can say from 

 3           our end that we've really not seen that 

 4           spike.  But it wouldn't surprise me if those 

 5           numbers did bear out that there would be some 

 6           kind of spike.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  And one of 

 8           our colleagues before was asking the 

 9           commissioners relative to potency.  As you 

10           know, there's a provision in the budget to 

11           remove taxation of marijuana based on 

12           potency.  However, several states are 

13           actually moving towards adopting potency 

14           levels similar to alcohol proof.  

15                  Would your organizations or your 

16           members support such a move in this state?

17                  MR. LIEBMAN:  That's a good question.  

18           I would have to get back to you.  I'd have to 

19           talk to my board about it.  But it's 

20           something certainly we would take serious 

21           consideration around.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  Great.

23                  Also, I think it was Commissioner 

24           Sullivan when she was in front of us was 


                                                                   288

 1           mentioning, when talking about school mental 

 2           health clinics -- that was a proposal in last 

 3           year's budget -- there's a little known 

 4           agency in the State of New York in the Office 

 5           of Children and Family Services called the 

 6           New York State Mentoring Program that was 

 7           actually started by Mario Cuomo's wife.

 8                  Are you familiar with this?  And has 

 9           there been any effort to utilize their 

10           resources as it comes to helping kids deal 

11           with mental health issues in schools?

12                  MR. LIEBMAN:  You know, it's funny you 

13           talked about that because -- I forget what 

14           it's called now.  I think it's got a 

15           different name --

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  New York 

17           State Mentoring Program.

18                  MR. LIEBMAN:  It is the New York State 

19           Mentoring Program?  Because we have, over the 

20           years, been engaged with them to some degree.  

21                  So I really think it's incredibly 

22           important, any -- you know, we were talking 

23           about anything we can do to enhance our 

24           workforce opportunities.  Mentoring is a huge 


                                                                   289

 1           part of that.  So certainly we will be more 

 2           engaged with the mentoring folks in the 

 3           future.  And thank you for that.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  Great.  Feel 

 5           free to reach out to them.

 6                  And last question, I raised the issue 

 7           of the AG's report that came out 

 8           December 7th.  Have you all seen it and 

 9           looked at the recommendations?  Yeah?

10                  By all means, a letter-writing 

11           campaign to the agencies and to us is I think 

12           important in order to change how the system 

13           operates and how we get people critical care.

14                  Thank you so much for being here.

15                  MULTIPLE PANELISTS:  Thank you.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So we're going 

17           to just move on to Assemblymembers.  

18                  Now, Assemblyman Anderson.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANDERSON:  Thank you, 

20           Madam Chair.  

21                  And thank you all for all the work 

22           that you guys do in the mental health space.

23                  I also -- I want to give a special 

24           thank you to NAMI.  I worked recently with 


                                                                   290

 1           NAMI-NYC, with Kim Blair and the rest of your 

 2           folks, about educating our constituents 

 3           around 988.  So my questions will be a little 

 4           bit in line with 988, but also some of the 

 5           mental health proposals that are in the 

 6           Governor's Executive Budget proposal.

 7                  So the first question I had -- and 

 8           this could be for any of the panelists -- 

 9           deals with the discharge of patients who are 

10           struggling with mental health issues.  So 

11           you'll see a revolving door of individuals 

12           that go in and out of the care system.  I'll 

13           give you one recent example.  Folks might 

14           have heard of the police-involved shooting 

15           that took place in Edgemere yesterday in the 

16           Rockaways.  And an individual who was shot 

17           and killed by police was an individual who 

18           was reportedly, and stuff is still coming in, 

19           a regular at our local hospital, in and out.

20                  So I'm just wondering -- the 

21           $7 million that the Governor has proposed in 

22           her Executive Budget, how that could be used 

23           to help those individuals, those types of 

24           patients -- and obviously we don't have all 


                                                                   291

 1           the details of that type of patient -- but 

 2           those types of patients to be able to access 

 3           long-term care and services.

 4                  And then my second question is, how 

 5           helpful will the Governor's $100,000 

 6           investment in maternal care for the 

 7           988 hotline be, for all of your 

 8           organizations?  And anyone can take a pick at 

 9           this.

10                  MR. SHAPIRO:  I'll just jump in and 

11           answer your 988 question first, Assemblyman.  

12                  Again, thank you for all the work that 

13           you've done to promote 988 and to make sure 

14           your constituents know what it is and that 

15           it's different from 911, you know.  

16                  Again, the policy experts at NAMI 

17           national have already kind of deemed that 

18           New York's 988 system is the most equitable 

19           in the country.  We've had the most statutes 

20           in place to ensure equity in reporting on it.

21                  And to take it this extra step -- 

22           again, you know, Senator Brouk has done so 

23           much to shed light on maternal mental health 

24           issues.  And I think those are -- we talked 


                                                                   292

 1           about how things -- mental health issues are 

 2           stigmatized; I think these are even more 

 3           stigmatized.  For a new mother to admit that 

 4           they have these feelings is very difficult.  

 5                  And letting people know that they can 

 6           anonymously call 988 and talk about these 

 7           issues, they won't be judged and, you know, 

 8           they'll get some resolution, is tremendously 

 9           beneficial.  So very excited about that new 

10           option.  And again, you know, we do hope that 

11           it's still kind of being implemented, that it 

12           is going to divert more people away from the 

13           criminal justice system.  You know, the 

14           commissioner said less than 3 percent of the 

15           988 calls result in 911 calls.  So very 

16           positive momentum in that direction.

17                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANDERSON:  And just really 

18           quickly, if anybody can give me the answer -- 

19           thank you for that -- for the last 20 seconds 

20           I have, on the revolving door for the 

21           individuals who -- you?

22                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Just from my end, you 

23           know, the administration talked about -- the 

24           commissioner talked about Critical Time 


                                                                   293

 1           Intervention programs, which are outreach 

 2           programs that immediately upon discharge from 

 3           a hospital -- even actually previous to 

 4           discharge from a hospital -- there's a 

 5           planning process in place which is necessary.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANDERSON:  Thank you so 

 7           much.  My time has expired.

 8                  Thank you, Madam Chair.

 9                  SENATOR BROUK:  From the Senate side, 

10           we'll now have Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick.

11                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

12           you.  Thank you, everybody, for testifying 

13           here today.  Appreciate it.

14                  My understanding is the cost of opioid 

15           use disorder medications in every county jail 

16           far outweighs the appropriate state funding, 

17           and the majority of counties receive 

18           approximately $160,000 per year in state aid 

19           to support these programs, which includes 

20           clinical supports.  Many counties have 

21           supplemented the lack of state funds with 

22           Opioid Settlement dollars in order to 

23           maintain compliance with the state law.  And 

24           yes, I was reading from your statement.


                                                                   294

 1                  So my question regarding this is, how 

 2           has this impacted local governments, since 

 3           they're now diverting funds away from other 

 4           programs to this issue?  And what do you see 

 5           as a possible solution?  Should we be 

 6           increasing funding?

 7                  MS. DAVID:  Sure, yes.  So I think in 

 8           my testimony I asked for additional funding 

 9           from the state side to support these 

10           programs.  

11                  The conference did a study back I 

12           believe in 2018 that initially said, you 

13           know, there was a certain amount of funding 

14           that was needed just on the clinical support 

15           side to push some services into the jails for 

16           individuals with substance use disorder.  It 

17           was never fully funded.  I think we asked for 

18           about 12.7 million when it first kicked off; 

19           we received 3.75 million.  And then as the 

20           time increased, then we also had the 

21           medication-assisted treatment mandate that 

22           went in to make sure that all available 

23           medications were available to anyone in the 

24           jails.


                                                                   295

 1                  So because of the cost of those 

 2           medications, the cost went significantly 

 3           higher.  So while we have -- our original ask 

 4           for just supports was 12.7, you know, five 

 5           years ago, and now we're at 8.8, which we 

 6           fully appreciate the state funding us at a 

 7           higher level.  But in order to sustain the 

 8           cost of those medications as well as those 

 9           clinical supports that are needed to coincide 

10           with those, yes, a lot more money would be 

11           needed on the state side to help really 

12           expand and make sure that those medications 

13           aren't draining other resources -- county tax 

14           levy, Opioid Settlement funds.

15                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  And 

16           then as far as -- and I know my time is 

17           short.  Has there been coordination between 

18           the state and NAMI regarding their best 

19           practices and trying to make sure that we're 

20           not reinventing the wheel every time we're 

21           trying to address an issue.

22                  MR. SHAPIRO:  Yeah, thank you, 

23           Senator.  

24                  We do talk to the staff at OMH 


                                                                   296

 1           regularly and, you know, give our 

 2           suggestions, especially on key things like 

 3           the expansion of mental health courts, the 

 4           admission and discharge program, the 

 5           transition teams.  So yeah, we have certainly 

 6           an open communication pipeline to OMH.

 7                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

 8           you very much.

 9                  MR. SHAPIRO:  Thank you.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

11           Assemblywoman Kelles.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Thank you all 

13           so much.  I appreciate it deeply.

14                  A million questions; I'll talk to you 

15           about some of them afterwards.  But one 

16           question I have, we've talked about the COLA 

17           not being a pay raise, it's simply in real 

18           dollars to prevent a pay cut, which we've 

19           noticed that that is not the case.  So 

20           essentially, in real dollars, we've had a pay 

21           cut over the last 10 years.

22                  So just wanted to make that really 

23           clear.  So what is the impact on our 

24           workforce?  So can you talk a little bit 


                                                                   297

 1           about the vacancies that you see in the 

 2           institutional setting and, you know, in the 

 3           nonprofit world?

 4                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Yeah, and especially in 

 5           the nonprofit world.  Because we have double 

 6           competition, in the sense that we not only 

 7           have competition with, you know, the 

 8           manufacturing sector, the Amazons and the 

 9           McDonald's, et cetera, et cetera, but we also 

10           have the state-operated issues as well.  The 

11           state -- I think it was talked about earlier, 

12           state-operated programs, they get higher 

13           salaries than nonprofits do.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So you lose to 

15           them.

16                  MR. LIEBMAN:  They get a pension -- 

17           which is another issue for another time.

18                  But the bottom line is is that we lose 

19           out on everybody.  You know?  So we are 

20           the -- you know, people are doing it -- and I 

21           said this earlier, people are doing it 

22           because they really believe in the work.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So we 

24           definitely need parity and pension.  


                                                                   298

 1                  What are the actual percentages that 

 2           you're seeing in vacancy rates now in the 

 3           nonprofit sector?

 4                  MR. LIEBMAN:  It's hard to say.  

 5           Again, I would say that what we generally 

 6           have is about 25 to 30 percent on a yearly 

 7           basis, which is brutal -- 

 8                  (Overtalk.)

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  -- that's tough 

10           enough.  We are saying that we are lacking in 

11           mental health, it's the biggest crisis of our 

12           time, and then we know we need and we're 

13           25 percent short of what we actually need?  

14           That in and of itself answers that.

15                  But I did -- we can follow up, but 

16           that is -- that is the number I wanted on 

17           record because it's so important.  So thank 

18           you.

19                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Sure.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  I did want to 

21           get to the competency restoration services 

22           that you --

23                  MS. DAVID:  Sure.

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Can you talk 


                                                                   299

 1           about -- well, first of all, having a mental 

 2           health and wellness court system throughout 

 3           every county that would redirect people into 

 4           comprehensive mental health services, would 

 5           that be a help to this issue?

 6                  And are what you're saying with 

 7           competency restoration services that they are 

 8           only being provided short-term, acute, but 

 9           not actually addressing the issue?  Is that 

10           basically fundamentally what you're saying?

11                  MS. DAVID:  Yes.  And it's a very 

12           complicated issue to get out in three 

13           minutes, so --

14                  (Laughter.)

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Exactly.

16                  MS. DAVID:  So yes.  I mean, 

17           ultimately, you know, the competency 

18           restoration services are very limited 

19           services that are supposed to bring someone 

20           back to be restored, to be able to understand 

21           the charges brought against them.  Right?  So 

22           they are not long -- they're not supposed to 

23           be long-term mental health treatment.

24                  The facilities that these individuals 


                                                                   300

 1           are in are not conducive to long-term 

 2           appropriate mental health treatment.  But we 

 3           are seeing that they are not -- you know, 

 4           they're languishing in these facilities for 

 5           long periods of time.

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Do you think 

 7           promoting or ensuring that we have a mental 

 8           health and wellness court in every county 

 9           redirecting people into comprehensive mental 

10           health services would address some of this 

11           instead of putting them in jail?

12                  MS. DAVID:  So it would -- I can 

13           follow up with you.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  If you'd answer 

15           that to the committee as a whole, in writing.

16                  MS. DAVID:  Yeah.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We next go to 

18           Assemblywoman Chandler-Waterman.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  

20           Thank you, Chair.  And thank you for the work 

21           that you all are doing right here in the 

22           mental health space.  

23                  I want to shout out NAMI, working with 

24           my AD for the mental health task force within 


                                                                   301

 1           my district.  We partnered on and -- for 

 2           Caucus Weekend, on 988 and the challenges and 

 3           how we can improve.  So thank you for that.

 4                  I'll start with Mr. Shapiro, then I'll 

 5           have a question for you, Mr. Liebman.

 6                  Can you please offer any strategies 

 7           and specific recommendations on how the state 

 8           can reform hospital admissions and discharge 

 9           planning?  

10                  And two, as we know, there are 

11           incarcerated people living with mental health 

12           conditions who are currently in prison, 

13           jails, and many of them are Black and brown.  

14           Jails and prisons, as we know, are not a 

15           therapeutic setting for people to recover.  

16           And when people transition back into the 

17           community, there isn't enough community 

18           support, resources -- and to add, there is a 

19           high recidivism rate with the population.

20                  So what can we do in our roles as 

21           legislators to ensure that justice-involved 

22           individuals have an opportunity to get care 

23           and not jail or prison time by our mental 

24           health courts?


                                                                   302

 1                  So those are two, sorry.

 2                  MR. SHAPIRO:  All right.  I'm going to 

 3           try to be quick so you can get to Glenn.  I'm 

 4           going to try to keep it to a minute.

 5                  So for admission, I mean, again, we 

 6           want to make sure people look for ways to 

 7           admit people and not divert them.  Right?  

 8           And admit them properly, and look at their 

 9           full case history.  And again, especially if 

10           people have been coming in and out of 

11           hospitals.  You know, I use my mom as an 

12           example.  I know she was discharged too 

13           early, was back in a month later.  Right?  

14           But they never looked at what happened a 

15           month ago and why she was discharged too 

16           early or things that might have failed the 

17           patient in the past.

18                  So, you know, a few years ago we 

19           introduced something called Nicole's Law that 

20           was going to look into these issues, and the 

21           state has kind of run with it, which we 

22           appreciate, in looking at -- you know, again, 

23           looking at someone's full case history and 

24           don't repeat things that have failed them in 


                                                                   303

 1           the past as far as admissions, and really 

 2           making sure you're getting person-centered 

 3           care, which is so important.

 4                  And as far as discharge, again, 

 5           someone shouldn't have to wait weeks to get 

 6           connected to a community provider.  They 

 7           should be connected before discharge, with 

 8           their medication, and they know where they're 

 9           going to continue their recovery in the 

10           community.  That's what's so important.  

11                  I want to make sure I give Glenn time.

12                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Thank you very much.

13                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN C HANDER-WATERMAN:  

14           Thank you.  Yes.

15                  MR. LIEBMAN:  And just my response is 

16           around the justice-involved population.  The 

17           1115 waiver, which just came out last month, 

18           there was supposed to be -- we were 

19           anticipating that there was going to be, as 

20           part of the waiver, this 30-day window in 

21           which individuals, before they were released 

22           from prison, would have 30 days prior to make 

23           sure they got all their services in place, 

24           make sure they were Medicaid-billable, 


                                                                   304

 1           everything was Medicaid-billable so the 

 2           second they walked out the door they would 

 3           get those services.  

 4                  Unfortunately, it was not in the 

 5           1115 waiver.  Now we're hearing that it might 

 6           be in another waiver.  But right now that is 

 7           an opportunity that we really lost here.  Can 

 8           you imagine just if people knew, 30 days in 

 9           advance, that they could link with a -- the 

10           second upon discharge, get their medication, 

11           link with a provider, link for housing -- it 

12           would be, you know, a game-changer.

13                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN C HANDER-WATERMAN:  

14           Thank you so much.

15                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Yup.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblywoman 

17           Giglio.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Hi.  Thank you 

19           all for being here today.  Thank you, 

20           Madam Chair.

21                  So my question is dealing with 

22           Stony Brook University and when law 

23           enforcement is picking up people that they 

24           think may need a psychiatric evaluation and 


                                                                   305

 1           they're bringing them to Stony Brook 

 2           University Hospital, and they're having to 

 3           hold that bed for them until they can find a 

 4           place for them to go for a 30-day program.  

 5                  And then I'm hearing from the people 

 6           in the 30-day program that when they let them 

 7           out, they go back to the places that they 

 8           were in and they sometimes come back again.

 9                  So I want to know what your solution 

10           to the problem is, if you could fill me in, 

11           please.  Thank you.

12                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Well, first of all, you 

13           know, we have to invest in the system.  You 

14           don't want to say money's the answer to 

15           everything, but it is incredibly important.  

16                  You know, I went through all the 

17           years, as did Assemblymember Kelles, all the 

18           years we didn't get any funding.  So if we 

19           were able to, you know, where we're looking 

20           to propose this whole notion of getting a 

21           $500 million investment into mental health -- 

22           because you're absolutely right.  

23                  And it's going to -- unless we have 

24           that kind of funding in place for the 


                                                                   306

 1           community-based programs, then you're going 

 2           to see this cyclical nature of what you're 

 3           facing, what this individual faces at Stony 

 4           Brook every day, because there's not enough 

 5           placement for them.  There's not enough 

 6           programs for them.  There's not enough 

 7           services, support or housing for them.

 8                  And this is something that we have to 

 9           change.  Hopefully -- again, the Governor's 

10           got this vision; hopefully that will help 

11           change.  But the reality is we need a lot 

12           more to make those investments happen.

13                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Yeah, another 

14           thing that's also happening is that when they 

15           do get out of the 30-day program, they are -- 

16           an appointment is made for them to go and 

17           talk to a psychiatrist or to somebody, a 

18           sociologist, that would be able to help them.  

19           And they're not going.

20                  So what happens to those people, and 

21           what can we do to make sure that they make 

22           those appointments, that they're taking their 

23           medications so that they're not repeating the 

24           same cycle?


                                                                   307

 1                  MR. LIEBMAN:  I think that the 

 2           outreach is obviously key.  I talked about 

 3           the critical intervention programs.  I also 

 4           think that there are the community ACT teams, 

 5           the sort of community treatment teams that 

 6           are dealing with those who are hardest to 

 7           serve in the community.

 8                  We have to -- again, there is this 

 9           whole movement around creating more and more 

10           of them -- which is great clinically, and a 

11           great idea, and we totally support it -- but 

12           you don't have the staff to be able to hire 

13           these people to bring them on.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  And if you 

15           don't have access to transportation.

16                  So have you identified areas where 

17           people are living or where they're coming 

18           from that a central location might be 

19           necessary for either group meetings or 

20           something to require them to go?  Because 

21           they're really taxing the hospital system, 

22           and the hospitals need those beds.

23                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Yeah, it's a -- what you 

24           have to do -- it's not just me, you have to 


                                                                   308

 1           identify hotspots across the different areas 

 2           in the communities, and you say, these are 

 3           the places -- you look at those, and these 

 4           are the places where we clearly have the most 

 5           issues with people coming in and out of the 

 6           hospital, and we have to make sure that we 

 7           emphasize that area and put a lot more 

 8           funding, a lot more staffing into those 

 9           areas.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Okay, I'll look 

11           forward to your map as to where those areas 

12           are.

13                  (Laughter.)

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Thank you.

15                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Thank you.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblyman 

17           Burdick.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Thank you for 

19           your testimony. 

20                  And this is a question for 

21           Mr. Liebman, Mental Health Association.  And 

22           I saw in your testimony that you're working 

23           to try to develop a pipeline for career and 

24           mental health --


                                                                   309

 1                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Yes.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  And that with 

 3           respect to OMH, that there was a provision in 

 4           the budget -- it didn't get through because 

 5           of opposition from professional 

 6           associations that you tried to address.  Can 

 7           you tell me what that opposition is and how 

 8           you're trying to address it and where it 

 9           stands and how we might help?

10                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Well, thank you very 

11           much for that.  And actually Assemblymember 

12           Gunther has a bill out about the qualified 

13           mental health associate title.  

14                  So that's the title that OMH developed 

15           last year.  And it didn't get through the 

16           budget because I think, you know, a lot of 

17           the clinical programs were very upset that it 

18           was going to infringe on their scope of 

19           practice.  So, you know, the social workers 

20           were very concerned, the psychologists, 

21           psychiatrists, very concerned that these 

22           qualified mental health associates would 

23           really, you know, infringe on that scope.

24                  So we, as the Mental Health 


                                                                   310

 1           Association, have been working with the 

 2           Office of Mental Health to say how do we 

 3           divide and say which of the services that are 

 4           not going to impact clinically at all -- 

 5           because there is a need for those 

 6           paraprofessionals to come into our field.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  So is it in 

 8           the -- a section of budget now, or is there 

 9           any conversation at this point to --

10                  MR. LIEBMAN:  No, there is not.  And 

11           again, we're talking -- you know, the Office 

12           of Mental Health wants to be in response, 

13           because they like the idea, but there's 

14           nothing that we've seen in the Executive 

15           Budget in it.

16                  But we're talking about it because we 

17           think it should be a policy.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  So -- but OMH is 

19           amenable to it, is that correct?

20                  MR. LIEBMAN:  They are very amenable 

21           to it.  We're having good conversations with 

22           them because they recognize, Assemblyman, 

23           that paraprofessionals, 18-year-olds who are 

24           graduating high school, looking for careers, 


                                                                   311

 1           they don't necessarily want to be 

 2           clinicians --

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  So are you 

 4           allaying any concern at the association?

 5                  MR. LIEBMAN:  We've talked to the 

 6           associations, and we're just, again, making 

 7           sure that they understand that the last thing 

 8           we want to do is infringe on clinical 

 9           practice, that these people can be helpful to 

10           you and not be, you know, an impediment.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  I'd be 

12           interested in talking with you offline on it.

13                  MR. LIEBMAN:  I would love to.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Thanks so much.

15                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Thank you.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

17                  So now I'm going to try and channel 

18           Assemblywoman Gunther.

19                  (Laughter.)

20                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Glenn, the two 

21           questions that there wasn't time to answer 

22           before:  How would a pension system help the 

23           mental health workforce?  And then, secondly, 

24           what is your organization's role in mental 


                                                                   312

 1           health first aid training statewide?

 2                  MR. LIEBMAN:  Well, thank you for 

 3           those questions.

 4                  First of all, I don't think a pension 

 5           would help at all, so don't -- don't -- no, 

 6           of course I'm kidding.

 7                  (Laughter.)

 8                  MR. LIEBMAN:  You know, look back at 

 9           the 1920s when Governor Al Smith was here.  

10           He created a pension system for the city and 

11           the state and the county workers.  Then in 

12           the last 50 years we've had police and 

13           firefighters and teachers who have all gotten 

14           a pension, appropriately.  We totally support 

15           that.  And it's not a great pension anymore, 

16           we know that.  We totally support that.

17                  But the reality is we have 800,000 

18           people in our community workforce.  We're not 

19           just talking mental health, I'm talking 

20           across the board -- 800,000 people who, when 

21           they retire, when they leave, guess what 

22           their benefit is?  See you around.  Maybe 

23           they have some sort of small, you know -- 

24           some sort of small funding, but the reality 


                                                                   313

 1           is they're not going to get anything.  

 2           They're really not -- you know, and our 

 3           ability to be able to give them a retirement 

 4           and a pension system would be huge.

 5                  So we don't know how much that would 

 6           cost, frankly.  We know it's well deserved, 

 7           because these people are working very hard.  

 8           We know it would certainly help with 

 9           retention.  We don't know how much it will 

10           cost.  So that's why we have this study bill 

11           in place that Assemblymember Gunther has 

12           introduced to find out, to bring together 

13           three of the major agencies to find out the 

14           cost of that.  

15                  And alongside that, we also have -- 

16           we're working with Cornell University to 

17           study the survey results that we've put 

18           together.  So they're going to put out a 

19           report about the impact also.

20                  So in terms of mental health first aid 

21           and youth mental health first aid and teen 

22           mental health first aid, you know, 

23           Commissioner Sullivan referenced teen mental 

24           health first aid as a really -- as a strong 


                                                                   314

 1           adjunct to the engagement with peers around 

 2           mental health support and services.  That's 

 3           essential.  And we really have to have youth 

 4           mental health first aid with those 

 5           individuals, those agencies, just so they -- 

 6           you know, the front-facing agencies and the 

 7           schools, just so they have an understanding 

 8           what mental health first aid is.  

 9                  It's just a teaching.  It's an 

10           education.  It's an eight-hour training that 

11           can really give people a sense of what mental 

12           health services are about and end the stigma 

13           and, frankly, respond to the crisis as well.  

14           So ...

15                  (Inaudible legislator comment.)

16                  MR. LIEBMAN:  You're certified?  There 

17           we go, that's great.

18                  SENATOR BROUK:  Wonderful.

19                  I want to thank our panelists so much.  

20           That is the end of your questioning.

21                  MULTIPLE PANELISTS:  Thank you.  Thank 

22           you, Senator.

23                  SENATOR BROUK:  Take care.

24                  Next we'll call up Panel C.  So we 


                                                                   315

 1           have New York Disability Advocates; Families 

 2           Together in New York; Citizens' Committee for 

 3           Children of New York; New York State 

 4           Coalition for Children's Behavioral Health; 

 5           and the JCCA.

 6                  All right, everyone is situated.  It's 

 7           a big panel.  So we will start with 

 8           Mike Alvaro, president, for New York 

 9           Disability Advocates.  

10                  MR. ALVARO:  Good afternoon.  Thank 

11           you very much for having us here.

12                  I'm with New York Disability 

13           Advocates.  That's a statewide coalition of 

14           providers.  We have over 350 providers, and 

15           that is six associations:  IAC, the New York 

16           Alliance, New York Emerging and Multicultural 

17           Providers, The Arc of New York, DDAWNY and 

18           where my day job is, CP State.

19                  And I'm going to be repetitive.  We 

20           have needs.  We have gotten a group together, 

21           and we have come together on our ask.  And 

22           our ask is pretty simple.  We need a COLA, 

23           the 3.2 percent that you've been talking 

24           about.  It functions as a Medicaid rate.  We 


                                                                   316

 1           have had more than a decade of cuts and no 

 2           investment in our system.  And the recent 

 3           COLAs have been helpful, but they don't make 

 4           up for where we were.

 5                  When we do have a COLA -- and I think 

 6           it's important when you hear some of the 

 7           other testimony today -- the 5.4 percent COLA 

 8           was used, created a 7.2 percent increase in 

 9           salaries that the providers got the funds and 

10           created and reinvested in their workforce.  

11           So we need not a 1.5 percent COLA, but we 

12           need the full COLA.  We are losing ground, 

13           and we need to make sure that we bring the 

14           field back up to where it was back many years 

15           ago.

16                  We also need a direct support wage 

17           enhancement.  Senator Mannion was talking 

18           about the bill that he and Assemblymember 

19           Seawright have.  We are looking for that 

20           $4,000 investment.  We need not just to have 

21           our organizations be brought up to a certain 

22           point, but we need to make sure that the 

23           staff in our field are brought to a living 

24           wage.  That $4,000 investment will do that.


                                                                   317

 1                  We've had vacancy rates -- the crisis 

 2           in the workforce has been significant.  We've 

 3           had vacancy rates right now of about 

 4           17 percent, but we've been as high as 

 5           30 percent.  What has happened is that the 

 6           investment in our workforce has made a 

 7           difference, but we are still at significant 

 8           levels of shortages and staff crisis levels 

 9           across the state.

10                  These are not minimum-wage jobs.  They 

11           are not home care, and we do not receive the 

12           benefit of home care.  We need to keep the 

13           separation from minimum-wage jobs and the 

14           jobs that are in this field.  

15                  Right now, 44 percent of our folks 

16           have a college degree.  Our DSPs, we have 

17           110,000 statewide -- 70 percent are women; 

18           65 percent are Black, Asian or Latino.  Yet 

19           80 percent of those folks make less than 

20           $20 an hour.  There's an imbalance between 

21           the skills needed and the compensation they 

22           receive.

23                  We've conducted a survey, the 

24           Miami-Ohio survey that included 4500 DSPs, 


                                                                   318

 1           and we found that 85 percent like their job.  

 2           And of those folks that like their job, one 

 3           in four are not satisfied with their pay.  

 4           Which makes it very difficult to keep them.

 5                  So I'll be really quick.  We need the 

 6           3.2 percent and an investment in our 

 7           workforce.

 8                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

 9                  Next up, Paige Pierce, CEO of Families 

10           Together in New York.

11                  MS. PIERCE:  Thank you.  Thanks, 

12           chairmen and committee members, for taking 

13           the opportunity to listen to us.

14                  I'm Paige Pierce.  I'm the CEO of 

15           Families Together in New York State.  We 

16           represent the voice of families and young 

17           people involved in multiple systems, 

18           primarily mental health.  But as you heard 

19           earlier when Assemblymember Walsh talked 

20           about -- read that email from a parent from 

21           her district, how frustrating it is as a 

22           family member to not be able to access the 

23           kinds of services and to really try to 

24           navigate a system that's unnavigable and not 


                                                                   319

 1           really a system at all. 

 2                  We are an organization that represents 

 3           the voices of families, and we are family 

 4           members.  I'm a parent of a child who was 

 5           diagnosed with autism when he was three years 

 6           old, and he's now 32.  So the navigating part 

 7           is -- we are peers.  We have that lived 

 8           experience so we have the ability to be able 

 9           to help -- our philosophy is "nothing about 

10           us without us."  We can help you all do your 

11           jobs and better create policies that will be 

12           effective because you listen to us as 

13           stakeholders.

14                  One of the things that was really 

15           frustrating about hearing that email from 

16           Assemblywoman Walsh was that this is -- she 

17           gets those emails, you all get those emails.  

18           We get those emails and phone calls every 

19           single day from family members who are trying 

20           to navigate what we call a system of care but 

21           is really not.  We have a quote from a family 

22           member from Long Island who says:  "We have a 

23           great behavioral health system on paper.  

24           I've never experienced it, but I'm told it's 


                                                                   320

 1           there."

 2                  You know, I think that's really 

 3           telling about -- what we're trying to 

 4           communicate to you all is that the multiple 

 5           systems that are siloed are not effective 

 6           when they work with the walls up between 

 7           them.  We need more coordination and 

 8           collaboration, and we need more family and 

 9           youth involvement in order to be able to do 

10           it right.

11                  You know, Governor Hochul, I've got to 

12           give her credit for the emphasis on mental 

13           health, and particularly children's mental 

14           health, in both her State of the State and in 

15           the budget.  It is like no other Governor has 

16           ever done.  We used to joke about if we could 

17           get the Governor to mention children or 

18           families in their State of the State, it 

19           would be a miracle -- and then mental health 

20           and children and families was monumental.  

21                  And we do appreciate the attention 

22           being paid, and the investments being 

23           created.  But there is still a lot to be 

24           done.


                                                                   321

 1                  The rising demand -- you can see in my 

 2           testimony -- I'm not going to go over all the 

 3           testimony, but the bulleted areas that are 

 4           our priorities at Families Together, the 

 5           rising demand and eroding capacity -- we know 

 6           that the needs have gotten stronger, 

 7           particularly with the pandemic, for 

 8           behavioral health services, particularly for 

 9           children and families.  And the demand is 

10           there, and the resources need to be able to 

11           reach that same demand.

12                  The rest of it's in my written 

13           testimony.

14                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  Fabulous.

15                  Next we'll go to Ronald Richter, CEO 

16           of JCCA.

17                  MR. RICHTER:  Thank you so much.

18                  And good afternoon, Chairs and members 

19           of the Senate and Assembly.  I'm Ron Richter; 

20           I'm the CEO of JCCA and have previously 

21           served as New York City's ACS commissioner 

22           and a judge of the Family Court.

23                  So you know, JCCA is a child and 

24           family services agency.  We work with about 


                                                                   322

 1           17,000 children and families a year, 

 2           providing a continuum of behavioral health, 

 3           preventive and foster care and residential 

 4           services.  Our work sits at the intersection 

 5           of child welfare and behavioral health.  So 

 6           when one of your colleagues asked this 

 7           morning of the commissioner of Mental Health 

 8           about how that agency is supporting foster 

 9           children, JCCA is here to say that there are 

10           serious silos between the Office of Children 

11           and Family Services, which licenses foster 

12           care and residential, and the Office of 

13           Mental Health, which is responsible for the 

14           well-being of children and families, 

15           especially those that have experienced a 

16           separation because of foster care and, 

17           of course, for some reason a judge decided 

18           they couldn't live with their family.

19                  I want to just emphasize I support the 

20           COLA, I think it's critical.  We have 

21           significant turnover at JCCA in all of our 

22           frontline positions.  They are difficult to 

23           fill.  I appreciate your acknowledgement in 

24           your comments today of how important that is.


                                                                   323

 1                  We also need to look carefully at 

 2           Medicaid rates for child and family treatment 

 3           support services, for health homes, and for 

 4           home- and community-based services.  The 

 5           Governor proposes a cut in health homes.  The 

 6           only way you can get the highest-end 

 7           community-based service in New York, under 

 8           our current rules, is if you're in a health 

 9           home.  So how the Governor proposes to cut 

10           health homes -- while services we provide 

11           require one -- suggests that there's a 

12           disconnect or perhaps another way to get 

13           these services.  But unless that exists, 

14           we're really cutting off children that need 

15           the highest level of care.

16                  The last thing I just want to 

17           emphasize is my agency, because of the 

18           challenges OPWDD has in building capacity, 

19           takes care of children that are 22 and 23.  

20           They're young adults, they're not children.  

21           We are not licensed to do so.  Because we are 

22           not licensed to do so, the state's agreements 

23           with MCOs do not require MCOs to pay for 

24           health and behavioral health services for 


                                                                   324

 1           kids who are 22 and 23 and in foster care or 

 2           residential.

 3                  So our agency eats over a million 

 4           dollars a year because we still provide the 

 5           health and the behavioral health.  I urge the 

 6           Legislature to think about how agencies like 

 7           mine can support a Medicaid program with no 

 8           Medicaid dollars.

 9                  Thank you so much for your concern.

10                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

11                  Next we'll go to Maria Cristalli, 

12           board chair for the New York State Coalition 

13           for Children's Behavioral Health.

14                  MS. CRISTALLI:  Well, good afternoon 

15           and thank you, Chairs Brouk, Weinstein, 

16           Gunther and members of the Assembly and 

17           Senate.  Thank you so very much.  

18                  I'm Maria Cristalli.  I serve as 

19           president and CEO of Hillside and as the 

20           board chair of the New York State Coalition 

21           for Children's Behavioral Health.  The 

22           coalition represents 43 member organizations 

23           that serve approximately 200,000 individuals 

24           each year and employ over 14,000 staff.


                                                                   325

 1                  We are pleased -- I agree with my 

 2           colleagues that the Governor has repeatedly 

 3           talked about and created action around the 

 4           mental health investments that we need.  In 

 5           fact, today, listening to Commissioner 

 6           Sullivan standing up new programming two 

 7           years in a row with ACT teams, investment in 

 8           school-based mental health, crisis services, 

 9           standing up beds -- all very good.  But what 

10           we're looking for in terms of a system is a 

11           sustainable behavioral health system for 

12           children.  

13                  What do I mean?  The Governor said 

14           during her address "Our children need much 

15           help," and they do.  And all of the testimony 

16           today reinforced that need.  Building on some 

17           of the areas to focus on, health homes 

18           serving children.  Approximately 30,000 

19           children and families receive health home 

20           care management.  We strongly oppose the cut 

21           that is proposed in the Executive Budget and 

22           ask you to restore that.

23                  Let me share a few data points on why 

24           this is important.  For those children, a 


                                                                   326

 1           68 percent increase in primary care visits.  

 2           That's helpful.  ER visits, a decrease by 

 3           12 percent.  This program is working for 

 4           individuals in the behavioral health system.  

 5           And at least 80 percent of those children 

 6           have one mental health diagnosis.  

 7                  Very important when we think about the 

 8           front end of that system and the connection 

 9           to the service array that's part of Medicaid 

10           managed care -- the Child and Family 

11           Treatment Support Services and the home and 

12           community-based waiver services, that 

13           $195 million ask for sustaining that system 

14           is critical to the future of behavioral 

15           health.  

16                  I want to also emphasize the support 

17           for the 3.2 percent COLA and suggest a 

18           multi-prong approach.  We need that COLA year 

19           after year, but we need investments like the 

20           Community Mental Health Loan Repayment 

21           Program.  Thanks to the Governor for 

22           including that in the appropriation for 

23           child-serving staff and agencies.  

24                  But also let's think about scholarship 


                                                                   327

 1           programs, so we can help elevate people in 

 2           our field, people of color and women that are 

 3           interested in progressing into clinical roles 

 4           and leadership roles.

 5                  Thank you.

 6                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you so much.

 7                  And finally we have Jennifer March, 

 8           executive director for the Citizens' 

 9           Committee for Children of New York.

10                  MS. MARCH:  Hi.  Thank you for having 

11           me.  I'm Jennifer March, the executive 

12           director of Citizens' Committee for Children.  

13           We're a child advocacy organization based in 

14           New York City, but we do statewide advocacy.  

15                  And today I'm really here on behalf of 

16           the Healthy Minds, Healthy Kids Campaign, 

17           which is a statewide campaign of clinical 

18           practitioners, caregivers, youth and people 

19           working across the State of New York to 

20           actually address the behavioral crisis that 

21           children and families are facing.

22                  I want to, because time is of the 

23           essence, talk really about what's not in this 

24           budget and what we hope that you can 


                                                                   328

 1           consider.  The Healthy Minds, Healthy Kids 

 2           campaign undertook a Medicaid rate study that 

 3           examined rates of reimbursement for 

 4           Article 31 and Article 32 services, 

 5           children's Home and Community Based Services, 

 6           and Child and Family Treatment and Support 

 7           Services, and we really examined these rates 

 8           to try to uncover what would enable the 

 9           outpatient behavioral health system to expand 

10           the urgent needs that they're seeing, so that 

11           we can actually confront waitlists, address 

12           wait times, shore up the workforce, prevent 

13           the cycling of children in and out of 

14           hospitals, and ultimately avoid the need for 

15           crisis intervention.

16                  And we found four things.  First is 

17           rates of reimbursement must keep pace with 

18           inflation every year.  That is not debatable.

19                  Second, we need to establish a care 

20           team coordination fee.  These providers are 

21           responsible for coordinating with a growing 

22           array of care managers because children and 

23           families touch many different systems, and 

24           they should be compensated for the time it 


                                                                   329

 1           takes to do so.  That would cost about 

 2           $20 million.  

 3                  Three, we need to adjust children's 

 4           clinic rates to reflect the extra effort and 

 5           expertise of serving children.  Children live 

 6           in families.  Clinicians must actually 

 7           interact with many, many people in the 

 8           households, and this rate study suggests that 

 9           we need a 35 percent rate enhancement for 

10           clinic visits provided to children.  That 

11           would cost $117 million.

12                  And fourth, we need to address the 

13           CFTSS and children's HCBS rates to 

14           acknowledge that we never achieved the volume 

15           efficiencies that were anticipated when 

16           Medicaid redesign was established, and 

17           frankly the providers of service in this area 

18           are subsidizing state rates in order to 

19           continue to provide these services at the 

20           community level.  So an increase in rates for 

21           CFTSS and HCBS would cost another 

22           $44 million.  

23                  That's a $195 million ask.  It would 

24           result in 1300 more clinicians in the field 


                                                                   330

 1           and allow us to serve 26,000 more children.  

 2           And I really applaud Senator Brouk and 

 3           Assemblymember Gunther for helping us in 

 4           championing these recommendations.  

 5                  Thank you.

 6                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you to all our 

 7           panelists.

 8                  To start on the Senate side, we will 

 9           have Senator Mannion.

10                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you.  Thank 

11           you all for your work in these fields.  It's 

12           greatly appreciated.

13                  Three minutes.  Ronald, you mentioned 

14           that lack of coverage with the MCOs.  Is 

15           there -- is a legislative fix possible, and 

16           is there any active legislation that would 

17           make that change?

18                  MR. RICHTER:  I don't believe there 

19           is.  But I do think that there could be a 

20           legislative fix, namely that MCOs are 

21           required to pay for behavioral health and 

22           health services until a child is -- or a 

23           young person is discharged.

24                  Most of our young people on our campus 


                                                                   331

 1           in Westchester -- we have right now somewhere 

 2           around 25 young people that are 22 or 23, and 

 3           we're providing those services.  

 4                  The answer is yes, I think there is a 

 5           solution.  No, there is no legislation.

 6                  SENATOR MANNION:  We'll keep that 

 7           conversation going, then, if you could 

 8           contact our office.

 9                  MR. RICHTER:  Absolutely.  And thank 

10           you very much.

11                  SENATOR MANNION:  Mike, thank you for 

12           making the distinction between home care and 

13           direct care, and we'll continue to have that 

14           conversation.  

15                  And I sat up here for a workforce 

16           hearing where someone testified that many 

17           years ago, when they worked as a DSP, the 

18           minimum wage was $2.75.  They received $5.  

19           That's what drew them into the profession.

20                  That leads me to my question, which is 

21           you have seen a decrease in the number of 

22           vacancies.  Do you attribute that to -- would 

23           number one on the list be because of the wage 

24           increases that have been provided over the 


                                                                   332

 1           last couple of years?

 2                  MR. ALVARO:  Yes, I think that 

 3           personally probably that is the biggest 

 4           driver.

 5                  But that doesn't resolve the issue of 

 6           the discrepancy between the level of the 

 7           minimum wage and where we are as a field.  

 8           Right now we're very close to the minimum 

 9           wage, and the state-operated facilities doing 

10           the exact same work are making a lot more 

11           money for the same amount.  Let me just give 

12           you a couple of them right here.  That the 

13           workers who are starting in downstate that 

14           work in the voluntary sector are making $17, 

15           or $34,000 a year, and the state-operated are 

16           making $55,000 a year.

17                  In upstate, state-operated are making 

18           $50,000 a year, and starting salaries are 

19           $33,000 a year.

20                  So those differences are so 

21           significant.  Yes, we've gotten the number 

22           down, but the fluctuation is still there and 

23           we're still spending over $100 million a year 

24           in the churn because we aren't able to keep 


                                                                   333

 1           the staff on board.

 2                  SENATOR MANNION:  Agreed.  We need a 

 3           set-apart from minimum wage.

 4                  And Maria, can you tell me about your 

 5           retention rates in the first year of your 

 6           staff?

 7                  (Pause.)

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblywoman 

 9           Sea --

10                  MS. CRISTALLI:  Sorry, I'm playing 

11           with the mic here.  

12                  They are, Senator Mannion, 57 percent.  

13           So we are churning 43 percent of new hires 

14           after only one year.  It's astounding.  And 

15           it's expensive.

16                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

18           Sorry.

19                  Assemblywoman Seawright.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you to 

21           this distinguished panel for all of your 

22           testimonies.

23                  I'd like to direct my question to the 

24           NYDA president, Mike Alvaro.


                                                                   334

 1                  What's the outlook for provider 

 2           agencies under the proposed Executive COLA of 

 3           1.5 percent?

 4                  MR. ALVARO:  We -- the COLA is really 

 5           important for things like insurance.  We all 

 6           live in the world today, right?  The 

 7           insurances alone we're seeing anywhere from a 

 8           20 to 30 percent increase across our 

 9           agencies.  That alone, the 1.5 percent 

10           doesn't cover.

11                  We aren't really able to maintain 

12           operations.  So the 1.5 percent really is not 

13           going to keep up with the day-to-day 

14           operations and the money needed to keep our 

15           doors open.  We fall further behind.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you.

17                  SENATOR BROUK:  Next we'll have, on 

18           the Senate side, Senator Webb.

19                  SENATOR WEBB:  Thank you all so much 

20           for being here.

21                  My question is specifically for you, 

22           Maria, with regards to youth Assertive 

23           Community Treatment teams.  And so I know 

24           that there's a $9.6 million increase in 


                                                                   335

 1           funding for the creation of 12 additional 

 2           youth Assertive Community Treatment, or ACT 

 3           teams statewide.  

 4                  And my question is, where will these 

 5           12 new programs be located?  And has the 

 6           pandemic stunted the progress of these 

 7           programs?

 8                  MS. CRISTALLI:  Thank you, Senator.  

 9           And I'll have to get back to you on where 

10           they will be located.

11                  I will tell you, in terms of standing 

12           up these programs and my organization and my 

13           colleagues -- my organization, we personally 

14           have three programs.  They have been 

15           difficult to stand up, especially in rural 

16           areas, because of the time commitment, the 

17           crisis component of the program, and the 

18           shortage of clinicians in our sector.  That 

19           Community Mental Health Loan Repayment 

20           program will help.  It's not the only thing.  

21           Getting back to the COLA, you know, we have 

22           to have incentives, sign-on bonuses.  

23                  We as an organization -- I know my 

24           colleagues have done the same -- keep raising 


                                                                   336

 1           compensation.  Compensation has become a 

 2           year-long sport because we need to attract 

 3           the people to do so.

 4                  I'm very pleased that the Office of 

 5           Mental Health, Commissioner Sullivan, has 

 6           heard the feedback from providers on how 

 7           difficult it has been in standing up youth 

 8           ACT teams, has lowered the capacity per team, 

 9           cost-neutral adjustments.  And also the 

10           option to utilize crisis -- the crisis 

11           component of that work in a different way 

12           with OMH approval.

13                  For example, my organization, we have 

14           24/7 clinicians that staff and serve the 

15           community, and they're able to help the youth 

16           ACT teams.

17                  Thank you.

18                  SENATOR WEBB:  Thank you.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblywoman 

20           Gunther.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  I'm okay.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblywoman 

23           Giglio.

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Good afternoon.


                                                                   337

 1                  Thank you all, and thank you for your 

 2           advocacy.

 3                  So we know that there's no shortage of 

 4           people that are seeking assistance as parents 

 5           age out and are trying to get their family 

 6           members or children into programs.  But we 

 7           know that there is a shortage with the DSPs.  

 8           And from what I'm being told is that the 

 9           increase from the 1.5 percent to the 

10           3.2 percent would be $50.8 million.  

11           Fifty-point-eight million.  And the wage 

12           enhancements would be another 125 million.

13                  Budgets are about priorities.  And 

14           it's a small price to take care of our most 

15           vulnerable population.  And I urge my 

16           colleagues, as they have done in the past 

17           years that I've been here, to continue their 

18           advocating and their voice being heard in the 

19           budget process, to make sure that 3.2 percent 

20           of a COLA increase is the minimum.

21                  So now my question for you is, when 

22           you do find somebody that may want to become 

23           a direct support professional -- and you talk 

24           about the turnover, which is extremely high; 


                                                                   338

 1           43 percent is just really unfathomable.  But 

 2           there is a big turnover.  And the wages seem 

 3           to be the -- requirement for the wages to do 

 4           this kind of work keeps going up.  They want 

 5           more money to do this kind of work.

 6                  So what do you suggest we do in order 

 7           better train or provide incentives through 

 8           SUNY/CUNY programs, so that people are 

 9           interested in pursuing this career, perhaps 

10           with a career beyond, like moving into the 

11           nursing industry from coming out of being a 

12           DSP in a home setting, and then getting a 

13           college education at the same time.  Any 

14           suggestions?

15                  MS. CRISTALLI:  Well, I'll start.  I 

16           think earning and learning is important.  So 

17           for this segment of our workforce, they have 

18           to have the opportunity to continue working 

19           while they're earning, whether it be a 

20           credential, going on to complete their 

21           education.  So it does have to be a 

22           multi-prong approach that applies not only 

23           the adjustments in salary and benefits, but 

24           also the opportunity for scholarships for 


                                                                   339

 1           them to go back to school while they're 

 2           working.

 3                  Many of the -- and I'll speak for 

 4           myself, my organization.  The DSPs, they have 

 5           other jobs, whether it be an assignment 

 6           within our organization, outside our sector, 

 7           to make ends meet.  So I think we have to 

 8           provide incentives like that, multi-prong- 

 9           approach ways to even subsidize what they 

10           might need to be successful.  Like childcare, 

11           for example.  It is a complex solution.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  It is, because 

13           they're paying for education; meanwhile 

14           they're collecting a smaller salary than what 

15           someone would be in pursuing a career in 

16           healthcare.

17                  So thank you.

18                  MS. CRISTALLI:  Thank you.

19                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

20                  Now we'll have Senator 

21           Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick.

22                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

23           you, Chair.

24                  Thank you for everybody being here.  I 


                                                                   340

 1           especially like the list that we got of 

 2           priorities.

 3                  There are a number of things that I've 

 4           heard in the testimony that are so troubling.  

 5           The fact that there is such an increase in 

 6           youth that are making a suicide plan and 

 7           actually trying to attempt suicide is just so 

 8           heartbreaking.  And one of the things that I 

 9           read in your testimony, Ms. Cristalli, about 

10           half of New York's youth with major 

11           depressive episodes in the past year, did not 

12           receive treatment at all.

13  '               And one of the things that I've talked 

14           about is changing the narrative to say that 

15           we should be talking about mental wellness so 

16           that our youth are not stigmatized as to the 

17           fact that they need help.  Right?  We tell 

18           them, go to the doctor when you have a 

19           stomach ache or a headache, but to feel 

20           depressed, we don't somehow have that 

21           narrative yet.  

22                  So my question, though, to you, 

23           because you're the experts and not me, is how 

24           do we change that?  How do we get more kids 


                                                                   341

 1           to ask for help?  What are we doing wrong?  

 2           And I know that there's a shortage of the 

 3           people that are actually giving them the 

 4           care, and the COLA increase certainly will 

 5           hopefully help them.  But certainly looking 

 6           at the fact that there's only 28 child 

 7           psychiatrists per 100 children is just so 

 8           troubling.  

 9                  And I've often said I would love to be 

10           able to say give a professional who wants to 

11           get that extra education -- that's where we 

12           give them a loan forgiveness.  Because let 

13           them serve in a community-based program or 

14           serve underserved communities where we really 

15           need it, and give them the benefit of 

16           those -- that free education.

17                  But I really would like to open it to 

18           anybody.  What are we doing, what can we do 

19           better to get our youth to ask for help?

20                  MR. RICHTER:  Well, I'll say that I 

21           think that it is important to integrate 

22           mental health services into schools, and I 

23           applaud the Governor for that.  But there are 

24           costs associated with getting those started.  


                                                                   342

 1           As you're very aware, many of our schools 

 2           don't have space for a janitor's closet let 

 3           alone a mental health clinic.

 4                  So I think that while it's a 

 5           phenomenal proposal that does address some of 

 6           what you're saying, on the ground it's 

 7           extremely difficult to make happen.  The more 

 8           that those services are there, the more 

 9           people are going to talk about how it's okay, 

10           you know.  But it's few and far between.

11                  MS. MARCH:  And I would just add 

12           quickly we did the rate study to identify 

13           concrete, pragmatic solutions so that 

14           children and families get services timely.  

15           Because the worst thing you can do is make 

16           someone wait weeks and months, because then 

17           there is a disconnection from the very thing 

18           that could be lifesaving.

19                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

20           you.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

22                  Assemblyman Eachus.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN EACHUS:  Thank you, 

24           Madam Chair.


                                                                   343

 1                  I apologize for not being here for 

 2           most of your testimony and all.  But please 

 3           know that I am very aware of all the needs 

 4           you have.  If you recall, I've said in past 

 5           years I have a daughter who's 37 years old 

 6           who since birth has been involved with the 

 7           Office of Mental Health and all of the 

 8           various different programs.

 9                  You mentioned about how difficult it 

10           is to get into schools.  These clinics that 

11           they're talking about, and the fact that 

12           there is no room, that is true.  I'm from the 

13           Hudson Valley.  That's true in the Hudson 

14           Valley, as it is all over.  

15                  And that's why I actually have started 

16           a discussion with Commissioner Sullivan about 

17           opening up a wing of a hospital that has been 

18           closed, and then making that a reception 

19           center, evaluation center for all of the 

20           school districts in the area.  You have the 

21           physical facility already, and then all we 

22           would have to do is staff it properly.  

23                  And of course it also wouldn't take 

24           the kids out of -- which is what the idea is 


                                                                   344

 1           here -- out of their community to get 

 2           evaluation, to receive services and so on 

 3           like that.  So there are some other things.

 4                  I am going to ask one way out of the 

 5           ballpark question, because I notice that you 

 6           all deal with children and families and so on 

 7           like that.  And the question I have is, is, 

 8           in any of your programs, there an active 

 9           program to get the parents to sign up for 

10           guardianship for their kids?  Because that's 

11           so important.  

12                  I can tell you it makes a big 

13           difference when they're older, you know, past 

14           18, on the type of services that they can 

15           actually receive, because the parents can 

16           still stay involved with those kids and so on 

17           like that.  So do we, in any place or 

18           anywhere, encourage guardianship?

19                  MS. PIERCE:  Most of the people on 

20           this panel specifically work with families 

21           and children with behavioral health, mental 

22           health needs more than developmental 

23           disabilities.  And we do have -- you know, 

24           our hope always for our young people is that 


                                                                   345

 1           they will be their own self-advocates and 

 2           that they will be independent.

 3                  So we're not as involved in that kind 

 4           of guardianship kind of thing as people in 

 5           the developmental disabilities community 

 6           might be.  And that's why I ask if you might 

 7           want to --

 8                  MR. ALVARO:  Absolutely.  So we do 

 9           have guardianship programs where we work with 

10           families to make sure that they are involved.  

11           So I thought you were talking about --

12                  (Overtalk.)

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN EACHUS:  Let me tell you 

14           something.  It's not just developmental 

15           disabilities.  It also applies to mental 

16           disabilities.  And that's why -- and of 

17           course that guardianship does not have to be 

18           expressed, even it it's signed up for.  But 

19           if you don't sign up for it, that child, if 

20           it's necessary, needs guidance when they're 

21           older, may not get it if the parent does not 

22           have guardianship.

23                  So I think it's very essential.

24                  MS. MARCH:  I wonder too if healthcare 


                                                                   346

 1           proxy could be pursued, as an alternative 

 2           path which allows you to have permission to 

 3           be involved in healthcare decisions.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN EACHUS:  Sure.  Thank you.

 5                  SENATOR BROUK:  All right, so I'm up 

 6           next on the Senate side.

 7                  And first I have to say thank you all 

 8           for everything you do.  

 9                  Paige, I've used your slogan, "Nothing 

10           about us without us," in so many instances 

11           because it's so, so true.  

12                  And obviously, Maria, great to have 

13           other Rochesterians here with us.

14                  So I won't -- I wish I could belabor 

15           the point, but I only have three minutes.  So 

16           I won't belabor -- you know, we've talked 

17           about the $195 million investment, we've 

18           talked about what that means.  Jennifer, 

19           thank you for walking through that.

20                  I do want to ask, because I think that 

21           you all particularly, as a panel, have so 

22           many stories and experiences, because this is 

23           your everyday.  Right?  And I think one of 

24           you said it, we get a few emails and calls 


                                                                   347

 1           about what families are going through -- 

 2           that's your everyday.  And it's multiple 

 3           families, it's hundreds and thousands of 

 4           families.

 5                  So I would like to just take a minute 

 6           to hear from you a little bit more about the 

 7           waitlists that we hear about.  If someone 

 8           wants to take it to describe exactly what 

 9           families are looking at in terms of looking 

10           for services for their children, in terms of 

11           waiting times.

12                  MR. RICHTER:  I can say that in 

13           addition to the waiting times -- and then 

14           I'll pass it off to Paige -- it takes a long 

15           time to get approvals from insurance 

16           companies for certain services.  So once a 

17           child is in a health home and has care 

18           management, you have to apply to get approval 

19           for HCBS services or the like.  And we lose a 

20           lot of families while they're waiting for 

21           whether they get approval or not.  And then 

22           there's a waitlist.

23                  SENATOR BROUK:  Can you give us a 

24           time -- I mean, are we talking days, weeks, 


                                                                   348

 1           months, average?

 2                  MR. RICHTER:  It can be a couple of 

 3           months.

 4                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay, thank you.  Just 

 5           for that piece.

 6                  MR. RICHTER:  Yeah, for that part.

 7                  MS. PIERCE:  And I'm just going to 

 8           talk really briefly and then hand it over to 

 9           Jennifer to talk about the Healthy Minds, 

10           Healthy Kids study.

11                  But, you know, we hear stories of 

12           families whose kids are in ERs for months, 

13           months, living in an ER.  Just entirely 

14           inappropriate.  And mostly it's because of 

15           the lack of availability for -- it's because 

16           of the waitlists elsewhere.  

17                  So I just wanted to share that and 

18           then let Jen talk about the study.

19                  MS. MARCH:  Well, we're actively 

20           trying to ascertain like concrete waitlist 

21           data both from OMH and providers.  But we 

22           know it can range from -- anything from 

23           several weeks to several months.

24                  SENATOR BROUK:  And within that time 


                                                                   349

 1           period, I have to imagine the needs get more 

 2           complex.

 3                  MS. MARCH:  Correct.

 4                  SENATOR BROUK:  And when you're 

 5           talking -- I mean, you said months.  To be a 

 6           child in an emergency department?  I mean, 

 7           that's a complete retraumatization, I would 

 8           imagine.  And then you're probably dealing 

 9           with even more than you were originally.

10                  MS. PIERCE:  And I just want to point 

11           out also for those who are sort of the 

12           bean-counters or, you know, more thinking 

13           about the financial impact, the impact on the 

14           parents -- imagine if your child is in the ER 

15           for months.  How are you supposed to go to 

16           work?  How are you supposed to make a living?  

17           Your employer is then suffering as well.

18                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  To close 

20           questioning for this panel, Assemblywoman 

21           Kelles.

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Just so I can 

23           clarify my questions, do any of you work with 

24           developmental disabilities, or is --


                                                                   350

 1                  MR. RICHTER:  Our agency does have a 

 2           program.  They're child-welfare-involved 

 3           young people, in our case.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Okay.  So I 

 5           just want to share -- I had an experience 

 6           this weekend that I'm still processing, and 

 7           so I'm going to share a couple of points and 

 8           then I have a question for you.

 9                  Five families, all with children who 

10           have been classified as permanently disabled, 

11           severely disabled.  They are distraught to an 

12           extreme because they cannot get any services 

13           for any reason.  So I just wanted to share 

14           some of the things that they said that are 

15           just absolutely broken.

16                  Providers don't get paid for time 

17           spent billing, writing reports, literally 

18           only the minutes that they spend with the 

19           individual. 

20                  There's a new Medicaid system that 

21           they're now being asked to do, and they had 

22           another one they just did three years ago.  

23           So many of them are dropping out because it's 

24           like literally the last straw.


                                                                   351

 1                  Annual Medicaid renewal applications 

 2           for Medicaid --

 3                  MR. RICHTER:  You might have been 

 4           speaking to one of us.

 5                  (Laughter.)

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So the 

 7           application process has to be done annually.  

 8           I'm going to try and yell it out.

 9                  The Medicaid renewal application 

10           annual -- it's 32 pages, it changes the order 

11           of the questions every year.  It doesn't 

12           align with OPWDD, so they have to do the same 

13           application for every single department that 

14           they work with, which is usually three or 

15           four of them.  

16                  They also talked about guardianship 

17           process costs a lot of money, impossible to 

18           access.

19                  Here's the last one.  They have a 

20           critical nursing shortage.  Parents recruit 

21           someone, and to bill Medicaid the nurse needs 

22           to register in the Medicaid system as a 

23           vendor.  This process takes 60 to 120 days 

24           before she can bill.  By that time, this 


                                                                   352

 1           woman had already found another job because 

 2           she literally couldn't bill for any of her 

 3           services.  

 4                  In tears, frustrated about all the 

 5           nuanced systems -- I didn't even read through 

 6           the whole list.  

 7                  Can you talk about the red tape that 

 8           you are seeing consistently across the board 

 9           like this, how you would like us to help?  

10           Because this is costing us an insane amount 

11           of money, extra money that it doesn't need 

12           to.

13                  MS. CRISTALLI:  I'm going to jump in 

14           in one area, thank you very much.  And I 

15           think that it is related to services through 

16           the managed care plans.  

17                  And for providers like my 

18           organization, certainly we're on, and our 

19           colleagues that are contracting with 10 or 12 

20           managed care plans -- all the processes that 

21           you're describing, credentialing, the 

22           contract process, paperwork, are all done a 

23           little bit differently.  So if we can 

24           standardize as much as possible and say, 


                                                                   353

 1           here's a standard of how we're going to do 

 2           these things -- because we do want the 

 3           majority of time doing the work with young 

 4           people and families.  

 5                  That's one concrete suggestion.

 6                  MR. RICHTER:  Yeah, I mean, 

 7           administrative fees -- you know, we have 

 8           created essentially a hospital setting at a 

 9           social services agency which includes having 

10           people to deal with insurance companies that 

11           generally deny claims.  So we now have a 

12           staff that we are not paid to have in order 

13           to capture Medicaid money.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Let's connect 

15           after this.  Love to get these solutions.  

16           Thank you so much.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

18                  SENATOR BROUK:  That wraps up all our 

19           questions.  Thank you so much to our 

20           panelists.

21                  MULTIPLE PANELISTS:  Thank you.  

22                  SENATOR BROUK:  Next, we're going to 

23           start Panel D.  We have the Drug Policy 

24           Alliance; Coalition of Medication-Assisted 


                                                                   354

 1           Treatment Providers and Advocates; Alliance 

 2           for Rights and Recovery; Licensed Creative 

 3           Arts Therapists; and the New York Alliance 

 4           for Inclusion and Innovation.

 5                  Welcome, everyone.  We will start with 

 6           Toni Smith, New York State director for the 

 7           Drug Policy Alliance.

 8                  MS. SMITH:  (Mic off; inaudible.)

 9                  SENATOR BROUK:  You need to turn your 

10           mic on.

11                  MS. SMITH:  It's -- very close, okay.

12                  My name is Toni Smith.  I'm the 

13           New York State director at the Drug Policy 

14           Alliance, the leading organization in the 

15           United States promoting drug policy that is 

16           grounded in science, compassion, health, and 

17           human rights.

18                  It has taken decades to undo just some 

19           of the harms of mass criminalization and the 

20           drug war.  And now, in the midst of really a  

21           record-breaking overdose crisis, we are 

22           concerned that we are seeing a change in 

23           response to drug use from a public health 

24           concern to once again a criminal legal system 


                                                                   355

 1           concern.  We cannot recreate the Rockefeller 

 2           Drug Laws.  

 3                  DPA is urging the Legislature to omit 

 4           Part U of the Health and Mental Hygiene 

 5           Article VII language, which proposes 

 6           scheduling many new substances.  We urge this 

 7           for a number of evidence-based reasons.  

 8                  First, scheduling does not reduce 

 9           overdose deaths.  Criminalization has been 

10           the default response to the drug market for 

11           decades, in which time the drug supply has 

12           become more adulterated and overdose deaths 

13           have skyrocketed.  This is because the 

14           criminalization of the drug supply results in 

15           the introduction of new adulterants, which 

16           are often more potent and unpredictable.

17                  Second, criminalization amplifies the 

18           risk of fatal overdoses.  A 2023 study of 

19           drug seizures and overdoses found that 

20           drug busts were associated with almost a 

21           24 percent increase in opioid overdose 

22           deaths.

23                  Third, scheduling undermines drug 

24           checking.  New York State recently launched 


                                                                   356

 1           drug-checking programs across the state.  

 2           Embedded in harm-reduction programs, drug 

 3           checking creates an important feedback loop 

 4           between providers and consumers.  By 

 5           understanding what and why consumers are 

 6           using, providers can relay a more nuanced 

 7           understanding of the drug supply to public 

 8           health officials, which is critical to 

 9           informing our public health response.

10                  To be most effective, community 

11           members need to know that knowing what's in 

12           their drugs is not going to be used to 

13           criminalize them.

14                  Fourth, scheduling hinders lifesaving 

15           research.  Some of the most important 

16           medications developed to address the crisis 

17           are the result of research on opioid-related 

18           substances such as naloxone.

19                  Part U proposes to add, to Schedule I, 

20           more fentanyl analogs, five 

21           benzodiazepines -- which are only temporarily 

22           placed on the federal schedule -- and 

23           proposes to add xylazine as a Schedule III 

24           drug, even though it is not federally 


                                                                   357

 1           scheduled.  

 2                  We need more research, not 

 3           criminalization.  It is still unclear, for 

 4           example, how effective naloxone is in 

 5           responding to xylazine-involved overdoses, so 

 6           research is key.  Instead of criminalization, 

 7           you can pass legislation to ground drug 

 8           checking in health by protecting participants 

 9           from punishment and criminalization and you 

10           can expand overdose prevention centers.  The 

11           state does have the authority and the 

12           resources to expand OPCs. 

13                  DPA commends the work of the 

14           Opioid Settlement Fund Advisory Board for 

15           their recommendations and their work, echoing 

16           their recommendation to use settlement funds 

17           for OPCs.  And we urge the Legislature to do 

18           the same.  At this time, we can save lives or 

19           we can criminalize, but we cannot do both.  

20                  Thank you.

21                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you so much.

22                  Next we have Allegra Schorr, president 

23           of the coalition of Medication-Assisted 

24           Treatment Providers and advocates.


                                                                   358

 1                  MS. SCHORR:  Good afternoon.  My name 

 2           is Allegra Schorr.  Thank you for the 

 3           opportunity to testify today on behalf of 

 4           COMPA.  COMPA represents medication-assisted 

 5           treatment providers and the opioid treatment 

 6           programs across New York State.

 7                  The New York State Overdose Death 

 8           Dashboard shows overdose deaths increased by 

 9           73 percent from 2018 to 2022.  And during the 

10           same time period, overdose deaths connected 

11           to illicit fentanyl increased by 127 percent.  

12           And furthermore, while overdose deaths for 

13           all racial and ethnic groups grew, Black and 

14           Latino/Latina New Yorkers had the highest 

15           overdose deaths and the largest increase in 

16           rate from 2021 to 2022.

17                  We need immediate action.  But the 

18           Executive Budget proposes a 13.4 percent 

19           decrease to the OASAS budget.  A renewed 

20           sense of urgency and investment is needed to 

21           combat the current opioid crisis.  We need to 

22           increase access to treatment, but how?

23                  Adding more and more program sites in 

24           the middle of a workforce crisis creates more 


                                                                   359

 1           of a workforce staffing shortage, as existing 

 2           programs struggle to retain staff and compete 

 3           to recruit staff.

 4                  Moreover, we keep seeking to add 

 5           programs while our communities are watching 

 6           an increase in fentanyl use and homelessness, 

 7           and then they blame the syringes they see on 

 8           the street and the blight they are 

 9           experiencing on our existing programs.

10                  Increasing access is more than 

11           starting a lot of new programs.  We need to 

12           address the insurance reforms so that 

13           whatever coverage you have is how you can 

14           access treatment.  We need to pivot from 

15           criminalization to public health.  We need to 

16           work with our communities to defeat NIMBY.  

17                  We need to increase reimbursement, and 

18           we need to ensure that commercial 

19           reimbursement is at least equal to Medicaid.  

20           We need to tie the COLA to the Consumer Price 

21           Index to recruit and retain our workforce.  

22                  We need to invest in career 

23           development.  We need to reform the OMIG's 

24           audit practices so they pursue actual fraud 


                                                                   360

 1           and abuse and stop taking money back from 

 2           providers who have actually delivered 

 3           services.  And there are opportunities to do 

 4           this in the budget.  

 5                  We can reduce the cost of toxicology 

 6           testing.  We can make the Opioid Stewardship 

 7           Fund permanent.  We must capture savings from 

 8           managed care and reinvestment in the system.  

 9           And we must remember that the cost of 

10           overdose is high.  The economic costs are 

11           staggering, but the human cost is 

12           incalculable.

13                  Thank you.  Thank you for all your 

14           work on this.

15                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

16                  Next we have Harvey Rosenthal, CEO of 

17           Alliance for Rights and Recovery.

18                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Good morning -- good 

19           afternoon, and thank you.  

20                  In my three minutes, I hope to be able 

21           to offer some specific recommendations to 

22           some of the key questions that have been 

23           asked around what we can do to help people 

24           manage their health in ways that prevent 


                                                                   361

 1           avoidable ER, hospital, jail and prison stays 

 2           and, if they end up there, what we can do to 

 3           break the cycle.

 4                  I'm Harvey Rosenthal, person in 

 5           long-term recovery, CEO for 30 years of the 

 6           Alliance of -- of the New York State 

 7           Association of Psych Rehab Services and now 

 8           the Alliance for Rights and Recovery.

 9                  I've got plenty of comments in my 

10           testimony, but I want to say the people that 

11           I represent are people who are called having 

12           serious and persistent mental illness, 

13           complex conditions, hard to serve, people on 

14           Medicaid.  A number of them are people of 

15           color, and a number of them are 

16           justice-involved.

17                  And my folks first wanted me to tell 

18           you the great sense of alarm and outrage they 

19           feel about the onerous direction in which 

20           discussions and some mental health policies 

21           have been going in New York City and New York 

22           State.  Yes, we've seen a tremendous increase 

23           in violence of all kinds, but we are not the 

24           cause by any means, we're not the cause of 


                                                                   362

 1           that violence.  Four percent of violence in 

 2           our community.  You would not know that if 

 3           you read the newspapers -- and now even the 

 4           New York Times, I just have to say that out 

 5           loud.

 6                  But there is a narrow focus here in 

 7           our answers -- traumatizing hospitalizations, 

 8           medications that may have side effects or 

 9           don't work, and coercion.  Now we're 

10           rebuilding beds on the same hospital grounds 

11           we were trying to, you know, move into the 

12           community about.

13                  There are people saying we don't have 

14           a -- they don't have a right to live in the 

15           community if they don't take treatment, they 

16           don't have a right to live in the community.

17                  Some people want to place more people 

18           with outpatient treatment orders -- I'm 

19           sorry, I'm trying too hard to get it in.  But 

20           if you notice on Kendra's Law, the outpatient 

21           commitment law, which we're so against, both 

22           the Times and the Comptroller found that 

23           these programs are not working.  People are 

24           not getting to the services.


                                                                   363

 1                  And imagine if you don't have a court 

 2           order, you're really not getting to the 

 3           services.  So it's really about connectivity, 

 4           and we'll talk about that a little bit if we 

 5           have time.

 6                  Remember, also, if we're going to do a 

 7           study, which we're doing now, four out of 

 8           five AOT orders in New York City, three out 

 9           of five statewide, are leveled at people of 

10           color.  Why is that?

11                  There's some new legislation out you 

12           may hear about, Assembly 812, Senate 5508.  

13           We ask you to reject it:  More coercion.

14                  We know a lot more of what works to 

15           engage people.  Okay, prevention.  

16           Mrs. Gunther really funded a pilot which we 

17           made really into a national model.  It's 

18           called INSET.  It engages people who meet 

19           every criteria for Kendra's Law but are 

20           engaged voluntarily by peers, 80 percent at a 

21           time.  The state is doing that; we need more 

22           of those.

23                  We need to divert people from 

24           avoidable emergency room visits.  We have 


                                                                   364

 1           stabilization centers, but they're only a 

 2           one-day program.  We need more peer crisis 

 3           respite programs that can last eight to 28 

 4           days.  Oh, my goodness.  

 5                  AMT providers, from Daniel's Law.  We 

 6           need alternatives to police.  We need a Peer 

 7           Bridger -- just give me one second.

 8                  SENATOR BROUK:  I have to cut you off 

 9           now, Harvey.

10                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  A peer bridger is a 

11           person that will help you leave the state 

12           hospital and stay out of it and won't come 

13           back --

14                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

15                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  -- and won't pass you 

16           on to somebody else but will stay with you.  

17           It's a great model.  I'll tell you more later 

18           if we get a chance.

19                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  Okay.  

20           Well, I'm sure someone will ask about all of 

21           those things at some point, and we'll hear 

22           more.

23                  I do want to get to Drena Fagen, 

24           Licensed Creative Arts Therapists.


                                                                   365

 1                  MS. FAGEN:  Hi.  I'm so glad to be 

 2           here.  I am testifying on behalf of the 

 3           Licensed Creative Arts Therapy Advocacy 

 4           Coalition.  

 5                  For those of you -- I think many of 

 6           you are already familiar with us.  The 

 7           license is Licensed Creative Arts Therapists; 

 8           sometimes, for short, we're called LCATs.  So 

 9           I might slip and call us that sometimes, so 

10           you'll know what I'm talking about.

11                  I'm representing over 2,000 already 

12           licensed legally practicing psychotherapists 

13           who work in New York State.  We are licensed 

14           by New York State.  The rules for how we were 

15           licensed were created by the state.  

16                  We are -- I've been in the mental 

17           health sector for almost 20 years as a 

18           licensed clinical social worker and a 

19           licensed creative arts therapist.  

20                  We can all agree universally all day 

21           long that there is a shortage of 

22           psychotherapists for children, teens and 

23           adults, and there's a shortage of jobs -- or 

24           psychotherapists to take jobs at clinics and 


                                                                   366

 1           hospitals and all these other facilities.  

 2           This is a crisis.  There is a very high 

 3           demand for workers and clinicians, and there 

 4           is a very high demand by consumers for 

 5           therapists to get them off those waiting 

 6           lists.  

 7                  So I'm going to be a real exception 

 8           today; we are not asking for money.  Are you 

 9           ready?  We are asking for language to be 

10           added to this budget that will help fix the 

11           problems that people have been talking about 

12           all day.  

13                  There are -- a couple of days ago 

14           there were 2,116 licensed creative arts 

15           therapists who are licensed in this state to 

16           practice psychotherapy, to bill insurance 

17           using procedure codes that are identical to 

18           clinical social workers, mental health 

19           counselors, and marriage and family 

20           therapists.  There are 2,116 of us who could 

21           take these jobs and who could help people if 

22           you add language to the budget that says that 

23           we can be added to the Medicaid provider 

24           list.  That's it.


                                                                   367

 1                  So I'll tell you a little bit about 

 2           creative arts therapists, if you don't know, 

 3           in particular related to the things of today.  

 4           We are specialized, we have specialized 

 5           training that makes us different from the 

 6           other mental health counselors.  We have 

 7           expertise in working with children in 

 8           particular who are developmentally more 

 9           responsive to play and creative arts 

10           interventions in conjunction with 

11           evidence-based and best practice therapy 

12           models that everybody uses, and we use as 

13           well.

14                  We are also well trained to work with 

15           anxious, depressed and school-avoidant teens.  

16           Highly reluctant participants in therapy do 

17           very well with nonverbal activity-based 

18           therapies that again are grounded in 

19           psychotherapy principles that all the other 

20           practitioners are using.  We are very 

21           effective with nonverbal disabilities and 

22           culturally aligned with immigrants who might 

23           find talk therapy stigmatizing.

24                  Thank you.


                                                                   368

 1                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you so much.

 2                  And finally we'll hear from Michael 

 3           Seereiter, president and CEO, New York 

 4           Alliance for Inclusion and Innovation.

 5                  MR. SEEREITER:  Thank you.  Good 

 6           afternoon.

 7                  My name is Michael Seereiter, with the 

 8           New York Alliance for Inclusion and 

 9           Innovation.  We're also a member of the 

10           coalition Mike Alvaro spoke about earlier, 

11           New York Disability Advocates.

12                  Over the past two years the CPIU has 

13           increased 13.9 percent.  Governor Hochul has 

14           proposed during that time a 7.9 percent 

15           increase.  And while that's a significant 

16           improvement over her predecessor, it's 

17           nothing to be proud of.

18                  Thanks to the Legislature, that has 

19           been increased to 9.4 percent, but remains 

20           4.5 percent below what was needed simply to 

21           maintain the status quo for all human 

22           services, including our OPWDD services and 

23           programs.

24                  And now the Governor is proposing to 


                                                                   369

 1           continue that underfunding by 50 percent with 

 2           a CPIU that's at 3.2 percent and a 

 3           1.5 percent COLA.  Let's make no mistake 

 4           about this.  Our deplorable 17 percent 

 5           vacancy rate and 35 percent turnover rates 

 6           are directly attributable to almost 15 years' 

 7           worth of shortchanging provider organizations 

 8           who use those resources primarily to fund 

 9           their workforce, to compensate their 

10           workforce.

11                  The very least that the state can do 

12           is not perpetuate this and fully fund the 

13           3.2 percent COLA this year.  And to make 

14           reparations for those years in which there 

15           was no COLA, we ask you to fund the $4,000 

16           direct support wage enhancement so that we 

17           can begin bringing compensation for direct 

18           support professionals closer to what it 

19           should be to reflect the complexity of their 

20           work.

21                  New York State has historically failed 

22           to demonstrate the political willpower to 

23           fund OPWDD and other human services as they 

24           were originally designed decades ago.  Now, 


                                                                   370

 1           simultaneously, OPWDD has failed to evolve, 

 2           to provide flexibility to use the limited 

 3           resources that we do have more effectively.  

 4           And you now have an antiquated system that is 

 5           completely unstable and at high risk of 

 6           collapse.

 7                  Commissioner Neifeld's efforts to 

 8           partner with stakeholders and pursue reform 

 9           of OPWDD are the most genuine and significant 

10           that I have seen in my 25 years of doing 

11           this.  But the combination of the Governor's 

12           lack of commitment to address OPWDD's 

13           priority number one -- the workforce -- and 

14           the intransigence of OPWDD and its resistance 

15           to change, is too much to expect one 

16           individual leader to overcome.

17                  So I'm left with a quote from Dorothy 

18           Day:  "Our problems stem from our acceptance 

19           of this filthy, rotten system."  

20                  It is time for the Legislature to 

21           initiate a comprehensive redesign of supports 

22           and services for New Yorkers with 

23           intellectual and developmental disabilities.  

24           While we ask you to stabilize the system with 


                                                                   371

 1           a COLA and the direct support wage 

 2           enhancement, we also ask you to establish a 

 3           blue-ribbon commission to reimagine and 

 4           redesign a system that will be sustainable to 

 5           support New Yorkers with intellectual and 

 6           developmental disabilities for the next 

 7           50 years.  

 8                  Thank you.

 9                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you so much.

10                  We will start on the Senate side with 

11           three minutes for Senator Fernandez.

12                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Okay.  I thought I 

13           had more time.

14                  Well, really quick, thank you so much 

15           for being here.  I'm really sorry that there 

16           wasn't more availability for additional 

17           advocates to testify today, because we know 

18           there are so many of you and the work that 

19           you do is really immeasurable.

20                  But I want to go back to the 

21           scheduling topic while we have a few minutes.  

22           It's been -- oh, I can tell from the work 

23           that I've done, the conversations that I've 

24           had, our communities are desperate to see 


                                                                   372

 1           drugs off our streets because of the terrible 

 2           things that we've seen come of them.  And 

 3           scheduling is always quick to be assumed to 

 4           be a solution because we're going to get it 

 5           off.

 6                  Could you please go into it further 

 7           about how harmful scheduling can be and how 

 8           it restricts research?

 9                  MS. SMITH:  Sure, thanks.

10                  So interestingly, when the federal 

11           government themselves even schedules, 

12           announces that they're scheduling new 

13           substances, in the justification they will 

14           often say we are scheduling this because the 

15           last scheduling created new substances to 

16           enter the market.

17                  And so as we are struggling to catch 

18           up, our health responses are struggling to 

19           catch up with understanding xylazine and 

20           understanding new analogs and understanding 

21           the best way to treat wounds and other 

22           symptomology that people are experiencing, 

23           the drug supply is changing faster than we 

24           can respond.  


                                                                   373

 1                  And so it is tempting to want to do 

 2           something quickly to stop a substance.  But, 

 3           one, the scheduling doesn't remove the 

 4           substance that's scheduled, and it also 

 5           incentivizes the creation of new -- new 

 6           substances that are often more potent and 

 7           less --

 8                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  I think that 

 9           should be repeated.  It incentivizes the 

10           creation of new substances, right?

11                  MS. SMITH:  Yeah.  It does, right, 

12           like the -- 

13                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  And then we're 

14           going to have another drug out on the market, 

15           like xylazine, that could be causing worse if 

16           not the same harm.

17                  MS. SMITH:  Yeah.

18                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Thank you for 

19           that.

20                  I also want to ask about peer support 

21           services.  It's my understanding that it is 

22           not something reimbursable.  Could you speak 

23           about the importance of peer support services 

24           and maybe why we need to?  You, Harvey.


                                                                   374

 1                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Great question.  Peer 

 2           support is not adequately reimbursable under 

 3           Medicaid.  The state plan does not pay for 

 4           that.  So there's so much lost opportunity to 

 5           be able to deploy peers.  OMH is trying to 

 6           pay for them too in the rehab option for 

 7           clinics, but they're needed everywhere and 

 8           there's not enough funding to -- at hospitals 

 9           and emergency rooms and jails and prisons 

10           there's not the range of funding streams we 

11           need.

12                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  And a peer is 

13           somebody with experience, lived experience.

14                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Like me, a person in 

15           long-term mental health recovery.

16                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Thank you.

17                  I have 28 seconds.  OPCs, that has not 

18           been discussed today.  The bill that is in 

19           existence by Senator Rivera -- he was here 

20           today -- is not the idea that is fearmongered 

21           out there.  It specifically allows current 

22           needle-exchange programs to allow for an OPC.

23                  Could you speak about the need about 

24           that -- or for that?


                                                                   375

 1                  MS. SMITH:  Sure.  We have two in 

 2           New York, the only two in the country.  

 3           They've been operating without interference 

 4           for over two years.  In those two years they 

 5           have intervened in over 1300 overdoses 

 6           successfully.  

 7                  And Rhode Island, Massachusetts, 

 8           Minnesota are all on their way to authorizing 

 9           or have already authorized overdose 

10           prevention centers, and New York is being 

11           left behind.

12                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

13                  Assembly.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

15           Assemblywoman Gunther.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Harvey, how 

17           are you?  I haven't seen you in a long time.  

18           Good to see you.

19                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  You too.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Can you speak 

21           about the benefits of the Peer Bridger and 

22           crisis -- those programs?

23                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Thank you.

24                  So I wanted to say that to 


                                                                   376

 1           Assemblywoman Giglio, who was asking these 

 2           questions.  When someone's in the hospital, 

 3           what we do now is we force them out quickly, 

 4           without supports, and they just return.

 5                  We created a Peer Bridger model in 

 6           1993.  It's very prescribed.  It starts in 

 7           admission, goes all the way through discharge 

 8           and nine months thereafter.  We're not 

 9           handing off to people.  That trust is really 

10           important.  We stay with you until you're 

11           really engaged, and we work with you on 

12           housing, peer support, wellness, you know, 

13           and relapse prevention.

14                  It's a fabulous program.  It's 

15           replicated around the country.  So that's the 

16           Peer Bridger program.  And right now, we 

17           would love to see -- and if you're going to 

18           bring up new hospitals and put all that money 

19           in them, and they're going to be discharged 

20           in that same poor way, there should be a 

21           Peer Bridger program in every hospital.

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Okay, what 

23           about -- I want to talk about Kendra's Law 

24           and voluntary programs.  What's going on with 


                                                                   377

 1           that?

 2                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Well, the INSET 

 3           program that you funded -- it's done 

 4           amazingly -- is a national standard now.  And 

 5           again, it's -- in order to get in the program 

 6           you have to meet every criteria for 

 7           Kendra's Law --

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  I'm talking 

 9           about the study, like the study --

10                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Yes.  Yes.  We have a 

11           study that actually the Assembly encouraged 

12           us to put in that will look at, again, 

13           scientifically, at whether people are getting 

14           better because of better services or the 

15           forced treatment.  There's a real 

16           controversy.  We're looking for that study to 

17           really examine that and, also, the overuse 

18           of, you know, people of color in forced 

19           treatment.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  I was 

21           interested in your, I don't know, the 

22           psychotherapists and the crisis.  I've never 

23           heard of that before, and I was very 

24           interested in that.  And, you know, how -- 


                                                                   378

 1           I've been using it for a long time, I just 

 2           never heard of it.

 3                  MS. FAGEN:  So psychotherapy is the 

 4           term that's used in --

 5                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Well, I know 

 6           psychotherapy, but --

 7                  MS. FAGEN:  Right.  Right.  So we're 

 8           one of the four licensed -- creative arts 

 9           therapists are one of the four mental health 

10           practitioner licenses that were created in 

11           2006 under Article 163.  So we're just one of 

12           the four.  I mean, to put it simply, each of 

13           those professions has slight distinctions and 

14           differences between each other, but 

15           fundamentally we're all doing diagnosis, 

16           we're all doing treatment planning and 

17           assessment, and we're providing psychotherapy 

18           to clients with mental health needs.

19                  In a variety of settings -- in OMH 

20           settings, in inpatient, in Article 31 and 32 

21           clinics, in substance abuse facilities, IOPs.  

22           And I run a large private practice that 

23           serves the Hudson Valley and Brooklyn, in 

24           Williamsburg, Brooklyn.  


                                                                   379

 1                  So we've been around for the exact 

 2           same amount of time, almost 18 years now, 

 3           and -- yeah.  So yeah.  And it's a little bit 

 4           of an uphill battle for us because people 

 5           aren't always exactly sure who we are and 

 6           what we are.  But it's -- we are actually the 

 7           second largest of the mental health 

 8           practitioners, 14 percent.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  I'll have to 

10           talk to you after this.

11                  MS. FAGEN:  Sure, okay.  Sure.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GUNTHER:  Interesting.

13                  SENATOR BROUK:  All right, next we 

14           will go to Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick.

15                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

16           you, Chair.

17                  And thank you to everybody on the 

18           panel for what you're doing.  

19                  Ms. Fagen, I'm intrigued by what 

20           you've presented to us about --

21                  MS. FAGEN:  The no money part?

22                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  -- 

23           creative arts therapists, and I hope that 

24           we'll be able to take your recommendation and 


                                                                   380

 1           incorporate more of that since we have such a 

 2           workforce shortage.

 3                  And I do want to just say we've been 

 4           talking about it all day, about the COLA 

 5           increase and the challenges that you have in 

 6           your workforce, and I really sympathize with 

 7           you trying to get a job done.

 8                  My questions are limited because of 

 9           time.  Mr. Seereiter, I wanted to ask you 

10           about something you put in your statement 

11           about artificial intelligence and what we can 

12           do for people with intellectual and 

13           developmental disabilities.  Could you 

14           describe to us why -- how you would use that?

15                  MR. SEEREITER:  First of all, you need 

16           to put some pretty significant parameters in 

17           place in terms of the rules of what's allowed 

18           and what's not allowed.  But after that, I 

19           think it presents some really interesting 

20           opportunities to take away, if you will, some 

21           of the mundane, more routine aspects of 

22           service delivery that occupy an inordinate 

23           amount of time for the direct support 

24           professionals that we hire.


                                                                   381

 1                  I'm going to guess, taking a guess 

 2           here, 25 to 30 percent of their time on a 

 3           day-to-day basis is occupied with activities 

 4           that don't really have an awful lot to do 

 5           with what people receiving services and their 

 6           families want.

 7                  But the artificial intelligence can 

 8           also be used to start to really push the 

 9           boundaries, if you will, in terms of how we 

10           use technology to support people to live more 

11           independently.  We've seen great 

12           opportunities already with little pilot 

13           projects, if you will, to support people who 

14           have lived in a, for example, certified 

15           residence, to then live on their own with the 

16           use of technology.  Remote supports provided 

17           by a direct support professional, who is 

18           supporting five or 10 or 15 people in their 

19           own homes and can be called at a moment's 

20           notice and can show up at a residence, at an 

21           apartment, within five minutes.

22                  There are lots of these opportunities, 

23           and I think we should be looking to see how 

24           the technology can augment the opportunity to 


                                                                   382

 1           support us to provide services and supports 

 2           for a population of people that we're 

 3           struggling to do so with the population of 

 4           staff who we're able to attract to these 

 5           jobs. 

 6                  And quite frankly, I think it also 

 7           then creates more opportunity to push more of 

 8           the resources back into the compensation for 

 9           those staff who do the work.

10                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Yeah, 

11           I wasn't quite sure how you would use it.  

12           Certainly going through therapy with AI, I 

13           didn't think that was what you were 

14           proposing, so I appreciate you clarifying it.

15                  MR. SEEREITER:  We've seen some 

16           remarkable things where AI-empowered robots 

17           are engaging with individuals on the autism 

18           spectrum who have never spoken with a 

19           human being in their life.  It's stunning 

20           stuff.

21                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Okay.  

22           Well, that's very interesting to hear.

23                  I just had a general question.  I know 

24           that Zoom and other technology, remote 


                                                                   383

 1           technologies, have been used quite a bit 

 2           during COVID in every aspect of our life.  Is 

 3           it still permitted to be used for services?  

 4           And do you find that that's helping you reach 

 5           more patients?

 6                  MR. SEEREITER:  Me?

 7                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  That 

 8           would be great if you could --

 9                  MR. SEEREITER:  I'm happy to answer 

10           it.  Yes, we do have some permissions on 

11           that.  We really need to expand it and look 

12           to extend to utilize the technology to the 

13           fullest extent.  We clearly started that 

14           process in the pandemic.  I think we need to 

15           continue it.

16                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

17           you.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblyman 

19           Brown.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  Thank you, 

21           Chair.

22                  Mr. Se-reeder --

23                  MR. SEEREITER:  See-reiter.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  Seereiter, 


                                                                   384

 1           thank you.  

 2                  I want to talk to you about your 

 3           comment about a blue-ribbon panel, and I want 

 4           to talk to you about parity.  It seems to me 

 5           that one of the best ways to fix the system 

 6           is fix the funding, the commercial health 

 7           insurance paying 50 percent on the dollar of 

 8           what Medicaid and Medicare will pay.

 9                  So what do you see, you know, if we 

10           were to create a blue-ribbon panel, first of 

11           all, what agencies would we include?  I have 

12           an idea.  And what issues would you tackle 

13           under that?

14                  MR. SEEREITER:  The blue-ribbon 

15           commission that we're envisioning is one 

16           really focused on the OPWDD system.  I'm sure 

17           that there are plenty of opportunities for my 

18           colleagues to be weighing in on other systems 

19           that deserve that attention as well.

20                  When we're talking about OPWDD 

21           services, we have defined the system and 

22           defined the way in which we -- I'm going to 

23           put big air quotes around it -- assure 

24           quality in such a way that it is all 


                                                                   385

 1           compliance-based.  It has zero to do with how 

 2           people receiving services and their 

 3           families -- what they want and how they want 

 4           those supports provided.

 5                  We need to move our system towards 

 6           something that's much more focused on 

 7           outcomes, defined by people who are receiving 

 8           services and their families.  What are those 

 9           valued outcomes?  We need to be moving in 

10           that space in a very significant way, which 

11           would then allow us to free ourselves from 

12           some of these compliance-based activities 

13           that occupy an inordinate amount of time of 

14           the direct support staff that we can attract 

15           and engage and retain in our programs.

16                  This is the kind of thing I think we 

17           really need to think about, because at least 

18           as I see on the horizon, I don't see any 

19           major changes happening in terms of the 

20           ability to recruit and retain for us to be 

21           able to compete with jobs that are paying $25 

22           and $30 an hour.  We're going to need to get 

23           to that level or we're going to need to 

24           comprehensively redesign the way in which we 


                                                                   386

 1           envision services for people with 

 2           disabilities.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  Thank you 

 4           very much.

 5                  MR. SEEREITER:  Sure.  My pleasure.  

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN KEITH BROWN:  Thank you, 

 7           Chair.

 8                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay, next we will 

 9           have Senator Webb.

10                  SENATOR WEBB:  Thank you all for being 

11           here.

12                  I just have two questions, one with 

13           respect to the Executive's proposal to cut 

14           the OASAS budget by 13.4 percent.  And so I 

15           know that there's a renewed sense of urgency 

16           and investment needed to combat the opioid 

17           crisis.  So this question is specifically for 

18           you, President Allegra.

19                  What would this funding go to 

20           specifically?  So that's one question.

21                  And then my next question picks up 

22           where my colleague Senator 

23           Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick asked a question around 

24           AI and helping those with special needs.  I 


                                                                   387

 1           know there's been a lot of concerns around 

 2           AI, especially as it pertains to potential 

 3           ethical implications and how we can protect 

 4           the public.  And so my question is, would 

 5           there -- or would there need to be things we 

 6           need to do to address potential ethical 

 7           concerns for individuals with special needs?

 8                  MS. SCHORR:  Thank you for the 

 9           question, Senator.

10                  I think that looking specifically at 

11           the budget slides that OASAS presented, the 

12           bulk of the cut looks as though it goes to 

13           the Aid to Localities.  

14                  But just taking a step back from 

15           there, I think one of the big issues that we 

16           have is that the OASAS budget is really 

17           designed to be broad-based and will really 

18           support services across everybody in the 

19           state.  There does seem to be some -- an 

20           emphasis on Opioid Settlement dollars, which 

21           as you heard earlier this morning from the 

22           commissioner, great work, of course, and 

23           we're certainly appreciative of those -- of 

24           that funding.  But they were always intended 


                                                                   388

 1           to be really based in innovative projects and 

 2           not really meant to be ongoing kind of 

 3           funding.  

 4                  So that it really is apples and 

 5           oranges, and we want to make sure that 

 6           that -- that those OASAS funds go fully 

 7           across and continue to support -- and that 

 8           those dollars get where they need to be.

 9                  MR. SEEREITER:  On AI, as I said 

10           before, I think we need to really establish 

11           some ground rules about what's appropriate 

12           and not appropriate in terms of the use of 

13           technology to support people.  That needs to 

14           be key.  

15                  One of the things that's become very 

16           clear to me is that if we're not part of the 

17           conversation, we will become the victims of 

18           that conversation.  We need to be engaged in 

19           that discussion about what's going to be 

20           appropriate and not, what's in bounds and 

21           what's out of bounds, clearly defining that.  

22           And that's going to be very difficult for 

23           many of us who are, you know, challenged with 

24           some of these technologies.  


                                                                   389

 1                  But a set of guiding principles that 

 2           we at least as a sector can adopt, if you 

 3           will, that the state can consider using as a 

 4           set of rules to say this is what's allowable 

 5           and what's not allowable.  But you need to 

 6           engage in the conversation.  Otherwise, it 

 7           will get done to us in some capacity or 

 8           another.

 9                  SENATOR WEBB:  Thank you.

10                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblywoman 

11           Simon.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Thank you all 

13           for your testimony.

14                  Mr. Rosenthal, I wanted to ask you -- 

15           or explore with you a little bit the 

16           programming you've done, but also, you know, 

17           this Daniel's Law which we are proposing, 

18           first responders not be law enforcement but 

19           actually properly trained people, and follow 

20           that model of the Cahoots model from -- I 

21           think it's Oregon, right?

22                  How familiar are you with that?  How 

23           is that consistent with the work that you've 

24           done?  Or not.


                                                                   390

 1                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Well, I think it's -- 

 2           you know, we -- we're part of the Daniel's 

 3           Law Coalition, and we work very closely with 

 4           the Senator on that.  It's a key piece of 

 5           diversion from the criminal justice system.  

 6           It's an avoidable arrest, it's an avoidable 

 7           incarceration, by sending a mental health 

 8           worker who knows how to respond, rather than 

 9           a police officer who may not. 

10                  We used to spend a lot of time 

11           training police officers, a lot of turnover.  

12           It's not always a fit.  Peers and EMTs are 

13           the way to go.  That model really works.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Thank you.

15                  And Ms. Fagen, I could have sworn in 

16           last year's budget we got the LCATs back in.

17                  MS. FAGEN:  We did have support in the 

18           Assembly and the Senate to put them back in, 

19           but it didn't happen.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Okay, so it 

21           didn't happen in the final analysis.

22                  MS. FAGEN:  So we're back.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Because I've 

24           been working with the Brooklyn Conservatory 


                                                                   391

 1           of Music and their therapists, music 

 2           therapists, who are the same license, right?

 3                  MS. FAGEN:  Right.  Yeah, they have an 

 4           esteemed program that brings music therapy 

 5           specifically to schools all across Brooklyn 

 6           particularly, right, and I think even 

 7           probably beyond.  Yeah.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Okay, great.

 9                  So I apologize for that.  Hopefully we 

10           can get that happening, because it's really 

11           important.

12                  MS. FAGEN:  Yeah, thank you.

13                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SIMON:  Thank you.

14                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay, so I guess I'm 

15           up.

16                  I first want to thank all of you for 

17           all the work that you do.  I think the 

18           passion for your work comes out in your 

19           testimony, and it's certainly noted.

20                  Just to pick up where my 

21           Assemblymember colleague left off, looking at 

22           the licensed creative arts therapists.  So I 

23           just want to make sure that these numbers -- 

24           I have these right.  You said you were the 


                                                                   392

 1           second or third biggest group of folks -- 

 2           what was the statistic?

 3                  MS. FAGEN:  We're the second-largest 

 4           of the mental health practitioners.

 5                  SENATOR BROUK:  Second largest.  And 

 6           how many --

 7                  MS. FAGEN:  Right.  So social 

 8           workers -- which I am also a social worker -- 

 9           it's no contest.  There's like 50,000 of 

10           them.  But in terms of the mental health 

11           practitioners, the first one is the licensed 

12           mental health counselors, there's around 

13           11,000.  We're the second ones, just over -- 

14           a bit over 2,000.  Licensed marriage and 

15           family therapists, who are Medicaid-covered, 

16           are below us.  And the licensed 

17           psychoanalysts.  So that's the pecking order.

18                  SENATOR BROUK:  And you're the one 

19           that's not able to be a Medicaid provider.

20                  MS. FAGEN:  And the licensed 

21           psychoanalysts also, both of us.

22                  SENATOR BROUK:  Today we're talking 

23           about you.

24                  MS. FAGEN:  Yeah, yeah, I know.  But, 


                                                                   393

 1           I mean -- you know.  

 2                  But the thing is, just to speak on 

 3           that, we care about increasing the services, 

 4           right?  And if there's these two licensed 

 5           professions, right -- I care about us, but 

 6           also why are they not here?  Like why are we 

 7           not --

 8                  SENATOR BROUK:  It doesn't seem 

 9           logical.

10                  MS. FAGEN:  It doesn't seem logical.

11                  SENATOR BROUK:  So we're going to try 

12           again.

13                  (Laughter.)

14                  SENATOR BROUK:  But I think, you know, 

15           we've talked about the workforce issue, and 

16           right now we're literally looking at, as we 

17           sit up here on this dais, looking at 

18           potential providers for folks who aren't able 

19           to reach every person who needs help simply 

20           because of something we could change here in 

21           Albany.  So I appreciate you kind of 

22           hammering that home.

23                  In my last minute and 27 seconds I'm 

24           coming to you, Harvey, to talk about -- you 


                                                                   394

 1           mentioned the INSET program, you talked about 

 2           diversion programs.  You had some very 

 3           interesting statistics in terms of the 

 4           success rate for some of these programs that 

 5           are peer-led as opposed to law 

 6           enforcement-led.  And I would love for you to 

 7           dig deeper on that and whatever other notes 

 8           you had to share with us.

 9                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Oh, thank you.

10                  Well, I know the CAHOOTS program, on 

11           which Daniel's Law is based, is 30 years of 

12           data in proving that very few people have to 

13           get involved with the police.

14                  The INSET program engages 83 percent 

15           of people who otherwise everybody thinks are 

16           unengageable and would be on an order.  The 

17           Peer Bridger program has reduced recidivism 

18           by between 40 and 70 percent in state and 

19           local hospitals through this model I 

20           mentioned earlier.

21                  I do want to say one thing.  When 

22           people leave a hospital, they need three 

23           things:  A person to support them, a Peer 

24           Bridger; a place to live that will accept 


                                                                   395

 1           them -- Housing First, not only a housing 

 2           program, housing that takes you even if 

 3           you're symptomatic or using; and a place to 

 4           go, a clubhouse, for example.  So a Bridger, 

 5           Housing First, and a clubhouse.

 6                  SENATOR BROUK:  And you believe 

 7           programs that would include those three 

 8           things would be much more successful at 

 9           taking individuals who have severe mental 

10           illness when they're being discharged from 

11           hospitals, to keep them out of perhaps the 

12           carceral system --

13                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  That will break the 

14           cycle.

15                  SENATOR BROUK:  -- or keeping them off 

16           the street without the care that they need as 

17           well.  Okay, thank you.

18                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Thank you, Senator.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

20           Assemblywoman Seawright.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you to 

22           the panel for your testimony.  

23                  I'd like to direct my question to 

24           President Seereiter.  You mentioned in your 


                                                                   396

 1           testimony your partnership with the McSilver 

 2           Institute for Poverty Policy Research at NYU.  

 3           Can you expand on the findings of the report 

 4           and how you're partnering with OPWDD on the 

 5           $30 million statewide DSP recruitment 

 6           campaign to assist providers with finding new 

 7           staff?

 8                  MR. SEEREITER:  I can do a bit of 

 9           that, and I can also share the report with 

10           you as well.

11                  We've been working in collaboration 

12           with OPWDD to provide technical assistance to 

13           the provider organizations as they try to 

14           recruit and retain direct support 

15           professionals.  And what we did was 

16           essentially an organizational self-assessment 

17           of those organizations throughout the state, 

18           all provider organizations, and we also 

19           matched that up with a survey of direct 

20           support professionals so that we could 

21           identify where there are likenesses and where 

22           there are differences in the perception about 

23           what's working well and what's not working 

24           well.


                                                                   397

 1                  We're now using that experience and 

 2           that data to drive specific technical 

 3           assistance in the remaining time using those 

 4           ARPA dollars to drive specific technical 

 5           assistance to provider organizations to help 

 6           them up their game.  We've got some pretty 

 7           interesting findings from that.  Probably a 

 8           better use of time would be to share the 

 9           report with you and you can peruse it, and 

10           I'd be happy to answer questions later on.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Great.  

12           Thank you very much for all your work.

13                  MR. SEEREITER:  Thank you.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  So next we go 

15           to Assemblywoman Kelles.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  I really 

17           appreciate all of you being here and taking 

18           the time and your patience.

19                  A ton of thoughts, and I'd love to 

20           hear your feedback.  One -- I have three, so 

21           let's see how fast we can do this.  The peer 

22           support programs, Harvey, that you were just 

23           talking about, I have heard from some 

24           colleagues and something that concerns me is 


                                                                   398

 1           the belief that they -- that peer support 

 2           programs use people who are not qualified and 

 3           you should only use people who have 

 4           certifications and therefore, you know, these 

 5           programs don't work.

 6                  Can you respond to that?

 7                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  It's absurd.

 8                  (Laughter.)

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Thank you.  

10           It's on record.

11                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  But also peers are 

12           certified in New York through the OMH Academy 

13           of Peer Services.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Thank you.

15                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  They're heavily 

16           trained.  My Bridgers are trained in numerous 

17           -- and they have certificates in peer 

18           wellness coach, peer bridging, you know, all 

19           kinds of training and competency.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So they're 

21           educated, trained, qualified and they have 

22           trust, inherently.

23                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  They deserve better 

24           pay, too.  Yup.


                                                                   399

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Just want that 

 2           on record.  Okay, cost-effective.

 3                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Thank you for that.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  With respect 

 5           to -- this is for Toni of the Drug Policy 

 6           Alliance.  I'm curious, I've been seeing 

 7           stigma about just drugs in general 

 8           skyrocketing -- going in the wrong direction, 

 9           for some reason, over the last couple of 

10           years.  Making it harder for OASAS, for 

11           example, to have their clinics in communities 

12           for people to access.  

13                  Tons of stigma for people.  I have a 

14           bill, for example, that would bring -- that 

15           people could bring their drugs to a clinic to 

16           find out whether or not it's laced with 

17           something so that they don't overdose, and 

18           also provide the opportunity for treatment at 

19           those centers.  The political ability to even 

20           talk about it in this environment -- can you 

21           talk about what changes we need, education, 

22           to be able to --

23                  MS. SCHORR:  I think you just said it.  

24           Education is really like the key word there.  


                                                                   400

 1           And we're doing frankly not enough, not a 

 2           good job.  And I think there's enormous -- I 

 3           think people in communities, you know, people 

 4           understand this is something that affects 

 5           everybody everywhere.  And, you know, there's 

 6           that thing where, you know, you have people 

 7           stand up, do you know someone, does 

 8           somebody -- that when you have people stand 

 9           up in a room, basically the whole room is 

10           left standing.  Because everybody knows 

11           somebody who is affected by addiction.  It 

12           affects everybody everywhere.

13                  And yet when it comes down to on my 

14           block, in my world, you know -- and I said it 

15           in the testimony, it's always I don't 

16           necessarily want to see this here, and it's 

17           because -- it's not because -- it's not 

18           because of the treatment, it's not because of 

19           what is actually working, it's because 

20           they're seeing something else and they're 

21           confusing them.  They think it's the people 

22           that are in treatment that are causing the 

23           problems.  But that's never true.  And if you 

24           were to take a magic wand and remove all the 


                                                                   401

 1           treatment centers, you would not solve any of 

 2           the problems that they're seeing.

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Yeah.  One of 

 4           the things I just --

 5                  MS. SCHORR:  It might make them worse.

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  -- want to 

 7           note, a comment in the last five seconds is I 

 8           keep hearing from all of you the lack of 

 9           funding that we're putting in these 

10           cost-effective programs is leading us to 

11           depend on more expensive programs which is 

12           driving our Medicaid costs.

13                  MS. SCHORR:  That's exactly it.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

15                  To the Senate.

16                  SENATOR BROUK:  Absolutely.  Next we 

17           have Senator Mannion.

18                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you, Chair.

19                  Michael, I apologize, because I had to 

20           duck in and out.  I know we've had 

21           conversations in the past about the great 

22           challenges that we face in delivering 

23           services for individuals with disabilities 

24           and how, you know, workforce is certainly a 


                                                                   402

 1           piece of that.

 2                  I know that you've proposed a task 

 3           force or a blue-ribbon commission to really 

 4           look at this holistically so that we can have 

 5           a pathway forward that is manageable, 

 6           practical, meaningful, and has -- you know, 

 7           makes significant changes where they're 

 8           needed.  

 9                  Can you just provide a little -- I 

10           missed it, but can you tell me a little bit 

11           about what you think the commission would 

12           look like as far as its composition and how 

13           it would -- the results it would produce and 

14           potential legislation that might be required?

15                  MR. SEEREITER:  I think it can be 

16           assembled in any number of ways.  You can use 

17           many of the commission models of past years 

18           or experiences to look at that.

19                  I think you really want to look at the 

20           fact that you have a system that was designed 

21           to operate with an entire cadre of people who 

22           no longer are within our workforce, and on 

23           the horizon we don't expect to see those 

24           individuals coming back to our workforce.  So 


                                                                   403

 1           that means we need to fundamentally think 

 2           about how we do things differently -- how do 

 3           we support people to live more independently 

 4           with fewer direct supports, but using, for 

 5           example, technology to support people to live 

 6           more independently.

 7                  But one of the major factors -- and I 

 8           mentioned this before -- is we need to have a 

 9           very significant conversation about what 

10           constitutes quality, and we need to shift our 

11           system from one that has activities like 

12           checking the temperature of the refrigerator 

13           once a day to things that are actually 

14           meaningful to the people receiving services 

15           and their families.  And use those as an 

16           opportunity to shift our system so that we're 

17           using that precious direct support 

18           professional time a lot more efficiently than 

19           we are today.  You push in technology in a 

20           very significant way, and quite frankly you 

21           need to experiment with some different ways 

22           in which to serve people and support people.

23                  I think of this when I think of the 

24           concept of prototypes, taking things that 


                                                                   404

 1           have promising practice in a pilot and then 

 2           replicating that in four, five, six locations 

 3           across the state with different populations 

 4           of people, providing services, receiving 

 5           services, urban, rural, upstate, downstate.  

 6           And you start to learn what works and what 

 7           does not work well so that you can replicate 

 8           the things that work well and you can stop 

 9           spending money and time and resources on the 

10           things that don't work well.

11                  We need to comprehensively rethink 

12           what services and supports are going to look 

13           like for people like my brother for the next 

14           50 years.  We are well overdue, quite 

15           frankly, in our opportunity to look at that.

16                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you.

17                  MR. SEEREITER:  Sure.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  We go to 

19           Assemblywoman Chandler-Waterman.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  

21           Thank you so much, Chair.

22                  Thank you to all the panelists.  Thank 

23           you for the important work that you do.  

24           That's very significant to my family and my 


                                                                   405

 1           community.

 2                  We are happy with the passage of 

 3           Daniel's task force.  We can't wait to take 

 4           what we learn and start implementing it, and 

 5           also look for the passage of Daniel's Law.  

 6           So thank you, Harvey, working closely with 

 7           our Assembly District 58, you know, 

 8           Mental Health Task Force members.  

 9                  I want to ask you a question based on 

10           your knowledge of mental health emergencies 

11           and response teams.  Where does Daniel's Law 

12           fit into the crisis -- the continuous 

13           services continuum?  And what else is needed 

14           to make it effective?  What are the needed 

15           steps to get Daniel's Law teams with peers on 

16           the ground to respond to mental health 

17           emergencies?

18                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Let me see if I got it 

19           right.

20                  So when the -- instead of being 

21           arrested or worse, killed or, you know, those 

22           kind of interactions, the mental health 

23           worker or the EMS worker -- in some cases you 

24           might be having a medical condition; we'd 


                                                                   406

 1           make sure that that was addressed.  But in 

 2           terms of a mental health condition, there's a 

 3           number of alternatives to admission or even 

 4           the emergency room.

 5                  We have now crisis stabilization 

 6           centers, crisis respite programs.  So we have 

 7           places for people to go that are not as 

 8           traumatizing and that are alternatives to 

 9           mainly arrest and incarceration.  You know, 

10           but we have a continuum in mental health that 

11           I think is growing and needs to be more -- 

12           and it needs to be sensitized to people, you 

13           know, who have justice-involvement.  We are 

14           developing peer programs in that space.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  

16           Thank you.  And what other community-based 

17           services are needed that are not listed in 

18           the Executive Budget?

19                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  That are not in this 

20           budget?

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  Yes.  

22           What other community-based services?

23                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Well, everything I 

24           want.  The Peer Bridger program.  More INSET 


                                                                   407

 1           programs.  My computer's off here.  

 2                  More Housing First.  OMH has housing, 

 3           but really it doesn't seem like it's real 

 4           Housing First.  You have to invest in that so 

 5           that people who really are using and who are 

 6           having symptoms still need a place to go 

 7           that's not an emergency room or jail or 

 8           prison.  That's that model.  It's old, 

 9           long-time; they're not funding in enough.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN CHANDLER-WATERMAN:  

11           Thank you so much.

12                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  You're welcome.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Now we go to 

14           Assemblyman Maher.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAHER:  Thank you.  

16                  And a lot of you addressed a lot of 

17           the questions I was going to ask, so I just 

18           want to start by saying thank you for all of 

19           the work that you're doing, boots on the 

20           ground.  We appreciate you.

21                  A lot of folks that we work with that 

22           call our office that need help, whether it's 

23           a teenager and her mother can't work within 

24           the issues that they're having -- there's 


                                                                   408

 1           violence, there's mental health issues.  

 2           You'll call on the police, they'll go to the 

 3           hospital, they'll pass seven to 10 days, then 

 4           they'll go back home and they'll go to the 

 5           hospital and go back home and go to the 

 6           hospital.

 7                  It seems like there's a lot of issues 

 8           for both mental health and for addiction 

 9           where we're in need of more inpatient 

10           services, more beds.  In your opinion, 

11           because you've been doing this work for so 

12           long, why have we not been able to meet those 

13           needs?  Why does this continue to be a 

14           crisis?  Why -- what is it that's holding us 

15           back?

16                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  You know, there's a 

17           lot of thinking that we need more beds.  I'm 

18           not sure that a bed is always the answer.  

19           It's pretty traumatizing.  And people don't 

20           recover in a hospital, and they often leave 

21           for the bad discharge and no place to go.  

22           Now we're forcibly admitting people because 

23           they have problems with food, shelter and 

24           clothing.  That's not what a hospital's 


                                                                   409

 1           supposed to do.  So we have to really build 

 2           in this continuum of alternatives to 

 3           hospitals.

 4                  While I've got the floor, the Governor 

 5           wants to close five state prisons.  We have 

 6           24 state hospitals, more than California, 

 7           Maryland, Texas, and one other state I can't 

 8           remember combined.  It's time to look at that 

 9           again.  You know, you have time until next 

10           year.  But we started the recovery system by 

11           closing five state hospitals and replacing 

12           them with this array of alternatives.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAHER:  I agree, and that 

14           was actually my point, that the hospital is 

15           not the place.  Right?  But there's no other 

16           locations, not enough beds in terms of those 

17           facilities for that care that they need, for 

18           the surroundings they need.  And that's where 

19           I'd like to get some ideas on why we're not 

20           hitting that mark.

21                  MS. FAGEN:  So I've been working in 

22           outpatient mental health treatment for about 

23           20 years, and currently still do.  And we see 

24           about 300 people a week, so we're small 


                                                                   410

 1           compared to these big guys.  But it seems to 

 2           me that this is all related.  

 3                  So if there's a waiting list, so if a 

 4           teen is in crisis, if we catch it at the 

 5           beginning or even before it's a crisis, then 

 6           we don't move to possibly needing to go to a 

 7           Four Winds or some kind of inpatient facility 

 8           because we got an early intervention.  If you 

 9           think of it almost as an early intervention 

10           approach.

11                  And the teens and the kids, to 

12           somebody's question earlier, are actually 

13           pretty keen on getting services.  It's the 

14           parents who are reluctant and 

15           resistant and/or the access to care because 

16           they can't find a Medicaid provider, which 

17           becomes an issue in our community.  Or their 

18           commercial insurance isn't covering certain 

19           licenses, et cetera.

20                  So I really think it's an early 

21           intervention problem.  And if we don't have 

22           people at the outpatient level that can 

23           actually see people when they're at the 

24           outpatient level, then they move to the 


                                                                   411

 1           hospitals.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAHER:  Would love to 

 3           connect with you all offline.

 4                  MS. SCHORR:  We also -- we didn't 

 5           really touch on addiction there, but I think 

 6           there's also a way to address that 

 7           outpatient, using medications --

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you --

 9                  MS. SCHORR:  -- things that are fully 

10           funded.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  

12                  We go to our final questioner, 

13           Assemblywoman Giglio.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Okay.  So 

15           again, thank you all for being here.

16                  And Michael, my question is for you, 

17           to continue our conversation from this 

18           morning about people leaving a group home and 

19           going into a hospital and then maybe not 

20           being able to come back to the group home 

21           because they might be on a feeding tube or 

22           they may be needing some further help than 

23           what they can get in the group home because 

24           of the short staffing.


                                                                   412

 1                  So can you just finish up on our 

 2           conversation and tell us how to fix that.

 3                  MR. SEEREITER:  Sure, absolutely.

 4                  Quite frankly, I think this needs to 

 5           get considered as part of a reenvisioning 

 6           process for the Office for People with 

 7           Developmental Disabilities.  It needs to be a 

 8           much more nimble system to be able to meet 

 9           the needs of individuals when those needs 

10           show up.

11                  The way that that works right now is 

12           that when an individual who needs an 

13           inpatient level of support goes into a 

14           hospital setting, they stay, on average, 

15           two-and-a-half-times longer than the rest of 

16           the Medicaid population, which is a long 

17           time.

18                  Many people get stuck for months and 

19           sometimes years.  We have some of these 

20           crisis diversion and crisis respite types of 

21           approaches that do seem to work quite well.  

22           We need to model them out further and test 

23           them with more rigor in other localities and 

24           other locations.


                                                                   413

 1                  But the problem is that when a 

 2           provider is looking to support someone to 

 3           come back to where they live, their home, 

 4           there's not a reimbursement to be able to -- 

 5           the reimbursement isn't nimble enough to meet 

 6           the needs, the increased needs for that 

 7           period of time.  You're going to have to wait 

 8           at least two years until the next rebasing 

 9           period to be able to recognize those costs in 

10           a cost report to then get reimbursed for it.  

11                  That's not how this works when you're 

12           living on a shoestring.  You just can't do 

13           that.  So you end up with lots of situations 

14           where people are getting stuck in hospitals, 

15           otherwise going to a nursing home, otherwise 

16           ending up in a homeless shelter and lots of 

17           settings that are completely against what the 

18           Olmstead Supreme Court decision talks about 

19           as the least restrictive setting to support 

20           people.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Thank you.

22                  And I yield my time for anything else 

23           that you would like to add to your testimony, 

24           or any of you --


                                                                   414

 1                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  Yes.  To answer your 

 2           question, sometimes it's about the money.  

 3           We're here for more money, but it's not 

 4           always more money.  It's spending the money 

 5           we have better.

 6                  It's $3,000 a day in a local hospital.  

 7           It could be three, four, 500,000 a year in a 

 8           state hospital.  Think about the array of 

 9           services.  You know, we're getting hospital 

10           crazy because we want to get people off the 

11           street because people are afraid or they 

12           think it's going to solve the problem, and 

13           we're wasting money if we're going to go in 

14           that route.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  And you see 

16           more and more hospital beds lined up in the 

17           hallways of emergency rooms because the 

18           capacity just is not there.

19                  MR. ROSENTHAL:  We need alternatives.

20                  MS. SCHORR:  Yeah, I also would add to 

21           that, and it's true on the addiction side 

22           too, that it all comes back to workforce.  

23           You could keep adding more and more 

24           facilities, but if we don't have the staff to 


                                                                   415

 1           treat people, regardless of which system 

 2           you're in, it's a pointless exercise.

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  So the training 

 4           to recruit people into these fields is a dire 

 5           need.

 6                  MS. SCHORR:  It's really where you 

 7           have to start.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Scholarships.  

 9                  Thank you.

10                  SENATOR BROUK:  Wonderful.  That's the 

11           end of our questions.  Thank you so much to 

12           our panel.

13                  MR. SEEREITER:  Thank you.

14                  SENATOR BROUK:  Last but certainly not 

15           least, we have Panel E.  We've got The Arc 

16           New York; the Association for Community 

17           Living; Times Square Alliance; and Coalition 

18           for Self-Direction Families.

19                  (Off the record.)

20                  SENATOR BROUK:  Wonderful.  We will 

21           start with Erik Geizer, CEO of The Arc 

22           New York.

23                  MR. GEIZER:  Okay, great, thank you.

24                  Good afternoon.  I'm Erik Geizer, CEO 


                                                                   416

 1           of The Arc New York, the largest provider of 

 2           services and supports for people with 

 3           intellectual and developmental disabilities 

 4           in New York State -- and probably the 

 5           country.  

 6                  You've been hearing all day that our 

 7           system is in crisis.  Quite frankly, you've 

 8           been hearing it year after year after year.  

 9           And we do think you've listened, and we 

10           appreciate that.  You've made recent 

11           investments into our field.  But it's 

12           dangerously easy to think that years of 

13           disinvestment have been addressed and the 

14           crisis has been resolved.  Today I'm here to 

15           show you why it's not.

16                  Fifteen years ago the average DSP made 

17           nearly twice the minimum wage.  Today, the 

18           average DSP starts at $16.48 an hour, only 

19           10 percent above minimum wage.  In our 

20           written testimony we graphed the decline over 

21           time, and the result was stunning even to us.  

22                  I want to just hold this up (showing 

23           graph).  The trajectory -- this is the 

24           trajectory of the value New York places on 


                                                                   417

 1           DSPs.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  I'm sorry to 

 3           interrupt, but we don't allow signs or 

 4           placards or that.

 5                  MR. GEIZER:  Oh.  Okay.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.  But 

 7           you're welcome to share it with the committee 

 8           afterwards.

 9                  MR. GEIZER:  Okay.

10                  The trajectory has gone down for our 

11           DSPs.  The trajectory of our DSP compensation 

12           over the last 15 years has decreased 

13           significantly.  And the trajectory of their 

14           quality of life has gone down.  It has 

15           plummeted.  Now, you've made investments, and 

16           they are appreciated.  But this is where we 

17           are after those investments.

18                  A recent Miami University of Ohio 

19           study reported that half of New York's DSPs 

20           are experiencing food insecurity.  Half are 

21           experiencing housing insecurity.  This should 

22           be shocking.  These are trained professionals 

23           with a high level of responsibility for the 

24           well-being of vulnerable New Yorkers, and 


                                                                   418

 1           providers have been forced to set up food 

 2           pantries for staff.  

 3                  These are people working tirelessly to 

 4           ensure the needs of people they support are 

 5           met, and they are skipping meals because the 

 6           work doesn't even meet their needs of their 

 7           own family.

 8                  The work of a DSP is very fulfilling.  

 9           It's important.  It's not easy work.  In the 

10           daily activity of a DSP you might be cleaning 

11           wounds, you might be helping with toileting, 

12           you're managing complex medication, you're 

13           operating feeding tubes and colostomy bags, 

14           you're deescalating explosive behavior.  

15           Would you do all that for $16 an hour?  My 

16           teenager can make that at a cash register.

17                  According to the Miami University of 

18           Ohio survey, 85 percent of DSPs are satisfied 

19           in their work -- 85 percent -- yet one in 

20           three leave the field every year, and there 

21           are 20,000 vacancies across the state.  

22           Because, quite frankly, fulfillment doesn't 

23           feed your family.  Until we change that 

24           trajectory, we can't fix our system.  


                                                                   419

 1                  We're asking for a 3.2 percent COLA 

 2           and a DSWE of $4,000 per employee.  We need 

 3           your support.  Thank you.

 4                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

 5                  Next we have Sebrina Barrett, 

 6           executive director of the Association for 

 7           Community Living.

 8                  MS. BARRETT:  Thank you.  

 9                  I am Sebrina Barrett, executive 

10           director of the Association for Community 

11           Living.  Our members provide housing in 

12           communities across New York State for more 

13           than 42,000 people with severe mental 

14           illness.  Our staff help them achieve 

15           recovery and independence, but today our 

16           staff are struggling.

17                  More than one in five positions are 

18           vacant.  Those who show up to work have to do 

19           more.  Many don't make a living wage; they 

20           have to work two or three jobs to support 

21           their families.  They can't afford childcare.

22                  Our ability to recruit and retain 

23           workers is becoming harder and harder.  Our 

24           members report a reduced applicant pool, 


                                                                   420

 1           significant interview no-shows, and a high 

 2           staff turnover.  We need a full 3.2 percent 

 3           COLA.  Anything less is a cut because we have 

 4           to keep pace with inflation or else we will 

 5           again go backward and have a funding gap.

 6                  Our members know well what that looks 

 7           like.  After years of zero COLAs, they cut, 

 8           they scrimped, and they learned to do more 

 9           with less.  There are no more corners that 

10           can be cut, there are no more pennies to be 

11           pinched.  

12                  Housing providers are grateful for the 

13           investments over the past two years, but 

14           those have only allowed us to take a breath.  

15           They are not enough to modernize our models.  

16           Our models are outdated and struggling to 

17           serve today's residents.  They were created 

18           as many as 40 years ago, and since then 

19           everything has changed but the funding.

20                  And let me say this.  It is a COLA.  

21           Wages are important.  But part of retention 

22           is a modernized model.  We are asking staff 

23           to perform miracles with old models, and 

24           we're paying them less to do it.  It's no 


                                                                   421

 1           wonder they're leaving.  

 2                  Today's residents take 15-plus daily 

 3           medications, as opposed to yesterday's 

 4           residents who took one or two.  There are no 

 5           more daytime rehabilitation programs where 

 6           they can attend, so they rely on housing 

 7           staff.  They have multiple co-occurring 

 8           conditions like substance use disorder and 

 9           struggle with severe addictions.  

10                  Today's residents are older.  They 

11           have complex medical conditions and daily 

12           living needs that our programs weren't 

13           created to provide.  They live in programs 

14           that are highly regulated, require technology 

15           and privacy resources, and security measures 

16           that weren't even thought about when our 

17           models were created.

18                  Our residents are individuals who are 

19           considered the hardest to serve in the 

20           community.  They come from state and 

21           community hospitals, jails and prisons, 

22           street homelessness and shelters.  They live 

23           in models that are 30 to 40 years old.  They 

24           deserve to live in models that meet today's 


                                                                   422

 1           needs.  Our staff deserve to work in modern 

 2           models where they have a chance at helping 

 3           the residents reach success.

 4                  We recognize that model enhancements 

 5           will require an investment.  We have a plan 

 6           that we estimate the cost of these 

 7           investments would be about $230 million.  We 

 8           know that that has to be phased in over time, 

 9           but it's also a plan that cannot wait.

10                  We respectfully request a full 

11           3.2 percent COLA as well as additional 

12           investments so that we can modernize our 

13           outdated programs and begin to meet today's 

14           needs.

15                  Thank you.

16                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you so much.

17                  Next we'll have Tom Harris, president 

18           of Times Square Alliance.

19                  MR. HARRIS:  Good afternoon, chairs 

20           and members of the Senate and Assembly.  

21           Thank you very much for your time today.

22                  My name is Tom Harris, president of 

23           the Times Square Alliance.  I would like to 

24           commend the Governor, the Senate and the 


                                                                   423

 1           Assembly for making robust support for mental 

 2           health services a continued priority.  It is 

 3           certainly one of the greatest challenges we 

 4           face on the streets of Midtown Manhattan.

 5                  Holding hospitals accountable and 

 6           opening more beds are great first steps, but 

 7           more is needed.  The Times Square Alliance 

 8           has been providing service and support to 

 9           those in need in Times Square since 1992.  

10           Our Community First initiative, that has peer 

11           navigators and a clubhouse model, has reduced 

12           homelessness on our streets from 31 to 10.  

13           Those 10 high-need people require a different 

14           approach to keep them from dying slowly on 

15           the streets or, more probably, committing a 

16           crime and ending up in the very criminal 

17           justice system we have all been trying to 

18           keep them from.

19                  One of our community members, Emma 

20           Linda, who's been on the street for six 

21           years, lives in an encampment laden with 

22           flammable materials.  Another homeless man, 

23           Mohammad, who has a history of violent 

24           behavior and who has threatened members of 


                                                                   424

 1           the public, has lived on the streets of 

 2           Times Square for over six years.  A woman, 

 3           Salvation, has been on our streets for 

 4           five years and has clear signs of psychosis, 

 5           yet denies that she is homeless and rejects 

 6           any offer of services.  Another woman, 

 7           Sabria, known to have been living on our 

 8           streets with mental illness for two years, 

 9           just had surgery and narrowly avoided having 

10           her legs amputated.  She was told to stay 

11           indoors, but she refused and is back on our 

12           streets.  A man, Gann, living on our streets 

13           for the last two years, is known to fake 

14           seizures to attract attention, once in the 

15           middle of Seventh Avenue traffic.

16                  There's been a 292 percent increase in 

17           311 calls related to unhoused individuals in 

18           Times Square -- not because outreach programs 

19           aren't trying, but rather because current 

20           policies and measures of success fail to 

21           adequately support the most vulnerable.

22                  To make meaningful strides and address 

23           the totality of issues we see on our streets, 

24           we need to focus on and improve outcomes for 


                                                                   425

 1           all programs, including increasing the number 

 2           of teams on our streets and establishing 

 3           meaningful measures of success; clarifying 

 4           the definition of what constitutes harm to 

 5           self as a standard; mandate that hospitals 

 6           use the totality of a patient's history to 

 7           make a determination of treatment; mandate 

 8           that hospitals provide outpatient treatment 

 9           programs and broaden the definition of 

10           providers who are authorized to provide 

11           958 removals for the very small percentage of 

12           people that outreach alone does not help.

13                  Thank you very much for your time.

14                  SENATOR BROUK:  Next, and finally, 

15           we'll have Jim Karpe -- I hope I said that 

16           right.  Okay, great.  Jim Karpe, steering 

17           committee member for the Coalition for 

18           Self-Direction Families.

19                  MR. KARPE:  Thank you so much.

20                  I'm Jim Karpe.  I'm the father of two 

21           young adults with developmental disabilities.  

22           I am here representing the Coalition for 

23           Self-Direction Families.  There's now 30,000 

24           people, one out of every five in the OPWDD 


                                                                   426

 1           system, who are now in self-direction.  And 

 2           since we don't have another parent here, I'll 

 3           go ahead and speak for the 130,000 total who 

 4           are in the OPWDD system.

 5                  And so I'll start with endorsing what 

 6           you've heard from Erik Geizer, what you've 

 7           heard from Mike Alvaro and many others.  We 

 8           need a living wage for the DSPs.  We 

 9           absolutely need that.

10                  Another 54 cents from 3.2 is not 

11           enough.  Another $2.54, by putting the wage 

12           restoration and the 3.2, is still not 

13           enough -- but it's at least a good start.

14                  I'd like to continue by focusing in on 

15           innovation.  We've heard from Mike Seereiter 

16           about some ideas for -- we need a change in 

17           the system, because we don't just need money.  

18           We need better ways of spending our money.  

19           And those of us in self-direction I believe 

20           are in the vanguard.  We're out there finding 

21           new creative ways to bring additional 

22           capacity into the system.  We don't have 

23           enough DSPs, so families have gone out and 

24           found community providers who can do things 


                                                                   427

 1           that are meaningful for our children.

 2                  The community class issue is so 

 3           emotional for us, because it's not just "you 

 4           don't get to do that," it's an attack on the 

 5           things that make life meaningful.

 6                  The option -- if you don't go to a 

 7           community class, the option is not you go off 

 8           to some other meaningful thing.  The option 

 9           is you're sitting at home on the couch 

10           watching television.  And that is not a more 

11           inclusive environment.

12                  We're boxed in.  We have to not 

13           replicate other services with community 

14           classes, but we have to replace, we have to 

15           reduce the need for those.  

16                  I'm glad to talk to you more.  You've 

17           got my written testimony, and I'm glad to 

18           answer questions.  But we need not just 

19           money, we need the freedom of choice to spend 

20           the money that we're getting today.  

21                  Thank you.

22                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you all.

23                  We will start our questions with 

24           Senator Webb.


                                                                   428

 1                  SENATOR WEBB:  Thank you all for being 

 2           here.

 3                  My question is for Mr. Harris.  In 

 4           your testimony you mention that data shows 

 5           that when a nurse, social worker or other 

 6           mental health professional conducts removal, 

 7           patient outcomes as far as connecting with 

 8           treatment are significantly better than 

 9           removals conducted by law enforcement.

10                  And so my question is, what can we do 

11           as a state to make this norm statewide with 

12           regards to mental health professionals being 

13           a part of first line of response for persons 

14           that are in crisis?

15                  And then my follow-up question is the 

16           core function of our mental health system is 

17           to help each person who's suffering heal, and 

18           to maximize their potential.  Would you agree 

19           that the best way to do this is to expand 

20           access to mental health professionals, 

21           including peers?

22                  MR. HARRIS:  Great questions.

23                  So first, how can we flip the numbers?  

24           So we got this data from the City of New 


                                                                   429

 1           York.  If there's a 941 removal basically 

 2           done by a police officer, 75 percent of the 

 3           time they end up back on the street.  If it's 

 4           a 958 removal done by a mental health 

 5           professional, 75 percent of the time they get 

 6           the service and support that they need.

 7                  So the way to do that is to just 

 8           increase more people who are authorized to 

 9           perform those removals on the street.

10                  And then your second question?  I 

11           apologize.  Could you just repeat it quick?

12                  SENATOR WEBB:  Yes, sure.

13                  We know that the core function of our 

14           mental health system is to help each person 

15           in their healing, especially as they're 

16           dealing with mental health challenges.  So 

17           would you agree that the best way to do this 

18           is to expand mental health professionals, 

19           including peers?

20                  MR. HARRIS:  So our Community First 

21           program has peer navigators that go out on 

22           the streets of Times Square and have been 

23           very, very successful -- 31 down to 10.  So 

24           that is one tool in the toolbox, if you will.


                                                                   430

 1                  And we also use the clubhouse model.  

 2           We work with Fountain House.  We have a 

 3           recharge station.  And it's a place for 

 4           gathering, it's a place that's an alibi.  

 5           They could charge their phone, get coffee.  

 6           It's all part of a comprehensive system that 

 7           we have in place.  

 8                  But there are gaps.  And I think some 

 9           of the items in my testimony would close some 

10           of those gaps.

11                  SENATOR WEBB:  Thank you.

12                  And with the time that I have left, my 

13           last question is as we've been hearing today, 

14           you know, we have to continue making 

15           investments as pertains to mental health 

16           services.  We're way behind.  And so knowing 

17           that this is a fast-growing population in our 

18           jails and prisons, are you concerned that 

19           relying upon law enforcement as the first 

20           line of response for mental health 

21           emergencies will exacerbate this phenomenon?

22                  MR. HARRIS:  I wouldn't do that.  I 

23           wouldn't think that having law enforcement as 

24           a first order of response makes any sense.


                                                                   431

 1                  SENATOR WEBB:  Thank you.

 2                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

 3                  I'm going to now be Assemblymember 

 4           Weinstein too -- oh, you want to go?  Oh, 

 5           she's not ready to go yet.  Okay, go ahead.

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  But I'm going 

 7           to have to run to our conference in a few 

 8           moments.

 9                  Assemblywoman Seawright.

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you, 

11           Chair Weinstein.  

12                  And thank you to our panel for your 

13           testimony today.

14                  I have two questions.  I'd like to 

15           direct the first one to Jim Karpe.

16                  You brought up concerns with Medicaid, 

17           including the agency's consideration of 

18           moving to a managed care model for certain 

19           services.  At the same time you mentioned 

20           that non-certified services are under attack.  

21           How do you see such services faring under a 

22           managed care model?

23                  MR. KARPE:  So hopefully we don't have 

24           to find out.  Managed care is in so many ways 


                                                                   432

 1           the opposite of self-direction.  The 

 2           decision's being made not by the person in 

 3           cooperation with their family, their circle 

 4           of support, it's being made by somebody at a 

 5           managed care organization.  

 6                  So the three models that we've seen 

 7           are, in other states, self-direction just 

 8           gets completely carved out.  Another model 

 9           we've seen is the managed care organization 

10           says, Sure, we'll take our 6 percent, thank 

11           you very much, increases our bottom line, and 

12           you get the other 94 percent, you get to use 

13           it.

14                  And the model that I'm not sure is 

15           actually in place anywhere is where the 

16           managed care organization tries to interfere 

17           with the individual choice.  I don't know 

18           whether they've even tried that one.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you.

20                  And my next question is for 

21           Mr. Geizer.  Your testimony and leadership of 

22           Arc is commendable, and I thank you.

23                  According to your report, 15 years ago 

24           the average DSP wage was nearly twice the 


                                                                   433

 1           minimum wage.  What do you see as the cause 

 2           for this rapid devaluation of DSP workers?  

 3           If you could comment on that.

 4                  MR. GEIZER:  Sure.  Let me just open 

 5           the mic.

 6                  So you're correct, 15 years ago the 

 7           average DSP wage was twice the minimum wage.  

 8           Over the 15 years since that time, the 

 9           trajectory, as I mentioned in the testimony, 

10           has gone down precipitously.  It's 

11           essentially due to a lack of investment in 

12           our system.

13                  For 10 years there were absolutely no 

14           COLAs for our system -- zeroes.  Now, while 

15           over the past three years we've received some 

16           investment, even this year the 1.5 percent 

17           that's being proposed by the Governor doesn't 

18           even keep up with inflation.  So unless we 

19           find the additional 1.7 percent to make up 

20           the difference, we're going to fall behind 

21           yet again, and that trajectory will continue 

22           to drop.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN SEAWRIGHT:  Thank you.

24                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay, back to the 


                                                                   434

 1           Senate.  We'll have Senator Rolison.

 2                  SENATOR ROLISON:  Thank you, 

 3           Madam Chair.

 4                  Mr. Geizer, I recently had the honor 

 5           to go to The Arc in New Windsor, and I just 

 6           have to say that experience and how they 

 7           interacted, both at a staff level and also 

 8           the individuals that participate in those 

 9           programs, was really, really --

10                  MR. GEIZER:  Thank you.

11                  SENATOR ROLISON:  -- not only 

12           heartfelt, it just -- it made the week to see 

13           what was happening there.

14                  And then listening to the testimony 

15           throughout the day, and the DSPs and all 

16           that -- and I understand that completely.  I 

17           think obviously everybody does.  But I 

18           just -- there have been a couple of comments 

19           that were made, in the last panel too -- 

20           we've heard it here, I think Sebrina talked 

21           about, you know, the same old models.  

22                  So how -- if you're going to change a 

23           model, and you're in a system with state 

24           support and state guidelines, how does that 


                                                                   435

 1           work?  Or does it work?

 2                  MS. BARRETT:  So yeah, we had a 

 3           workgroup and we have a plan that essentially 

 4           would take the best of what our model has, 

 5           but we would add staff -- because the 

 6           staffing model was created, as I said, in the 

 7           '80s when there were other resources.  

 8           Daytime programs, the residents would leave 

 9           and be gone for the day.  Today they're there 

10           all day long.  And so the same number of 

11           staff that worked then doesn't work now.

12                  Also we have residents with more 

13           challenging needs.  And so we need 

14           different-credentialed staff.  The staffing 

15           that is in mental health housing programs 

16           right now are paraprofessionals.  We don't 

17           have nurses.  We don't have -- you know, we 

18           have very few licensed professionals.  These 

19           are folks with high school diplomas who come 

20           in and get training.  And they are making 

21           just above minimum wage.

22                  Housing is the same as these other 

23           programs that we've been talking about.  In 

24           the 1980s, our staff made three times the 


                                                                   436

 1           minimum wage.  Today they make just a buck or 

 2           two over.  They can make more money flipping 

 3           a hamburger.

 4                  So we're really asking staff to deal 

 5           with a much more challenging population with 

 6           less -- with a staff that is less educated 

 7           and is compensated in a lower fashion.

 8                  So those are the enhancements we would 

 9           make:  More staff, different-credentialed 

10           staff.  We would also add staffing for 

11           maintenance and housekeeping.  That's all 

12           extra.  So all the money that we spend on 

13           that is money that is taken away from service 

14           provision.

15                  SENATOR ROLISON:  And thank you for 

16           that.

17                  And Mr. Harris, I just concluded seven 

18           years as mayor of the City of Poughkeepsie, 

19           and have looked at your model in 

20           Times Square.  And kudos to you for that.

21                  MR. HARRIS:  Thanks.  

22                  And I think just to follow up on your 

23           other question, the way we changed that was 

24           we had an outcome-based measure of success, 


                                                                   437

 1           not process-based.  So we looked to reduce 

 2           the number of people who slept on the streets 

 3           and increase the number of people we provided 

 4           services for instead of just counting and 

 5           asking people if they want services.

 6                  SENATOR ROLISON:  Thank you.

 7                  Thank you all.

 8                  MR. HARRIS:  Thank you.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Assemblywoman 

10           Giglio.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Yes, thank you 

12           all for being here.

13                  And my question is for Erik, from 

14           The Arc, because I was there last -- the 

15           winter of 2021, and it was explained to me 

16           that the programs, a lot of the programs that 

17           you provided, such as bowling or going to see 

18           a movie and things like that -- quality-of- 

19           life issues for the people that are living in 

20           the homes -- that those programs are no 

21           longer happening.  They were decreased by 

22           38 percent in 2021.

23                  So I'd like for you to talk to me 

24           about -- and to us -- about the quality of 


                                                                   438

 1           life of the people within the homes, by not 

 2           having adequate staffing with DSPs.

 3                  MR. GEIZER:  Sure.  

 4                  So my testimony today focused 

 5           primarily on the wages and compensation for 

 6           our DSPs.  But I want to make the connection 

 7           to quality of care, because it's the people 

 8           we support and serve, they're the ones that 

 9           are being impacted.

10                  When we don't have enough staff in our 

11           homes, we can't take them on recreational 

12           events.  We can't take them out into the 

13           community.  Sometimes we have to close 

14           programs.  That causes people to move to 

15           other locations, maybe farther away from 

16           family and loved ones. 

17                  Staff that can't afford to work in our 

18           field.  You know, we're providing the most 

19           intimate of care to the people we support.  

20           Imagine someone you don't know coming in 

21           every other day and providing those supports 

22           and services.

23                  So I know we've talked a lot about 

24           wages today, and that's really where it 


                                                                   439

 1           starts.  It starts and ends with staff.  

 2           Because without a decent wage, without a 

 3           living wage, it impacts the lives of the 

 4           people we support in an adverse way.  So 

 5           that's really what it's all about.

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Okay.  And then 

 7           for Mr. Harris -- hi.

 8                  MR. HARRIS:  Hi.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  So when it 

10           comes to homelessness and it comes to 

11           homelessness that is -- for people that maybe 

12           have some mental health issues -- and I know, 

13           being a local police commissioner, that the 

14           police were the first line of defense.  

15           Someone's trying to break into my house or 

16           someone's outside my house screaming, and 

17           they get picked up, they get brought to CPEP.  

18           And then they get returned back to the 

19           community that they were in, and they repeat 

20           it.

21                  So you're saying law enforcement 

22           shouldn't be the first line there, is what I 

23           think I heard you say.  So what should be the 

24           first line in that situation where someone is 


                                                                   440

 1           screaming outside of somebody's home or 

 2           banging on the windows?

 3                  MR. HARRIS:  Well, I suppose it all 

 4           depends on the scenario.  

 5                  I think there's a place for law 

 6           enforcement.  Maybe they shouldn't be the 

 7           first responder unless it's a life-or-death 

 8           or an emergent situation like that.  

 9                  So something that you described, 

10           someone banging on a door for help, I think 

11           definitely the police need to be involved.  

12           But there could also be a co-response with 

13           other service providers.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  So when it 

15           comes to involuntary admission, we have 

16           community ambassadors in Suffolk County that 

17           witness -- I'm sorry, I'll catch up with you, 

18           because it's --

19                  MR. HARRIS:  I'd like that.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  -- a topic I'm 

21           very interested in.

22                  SENATOR BROUK:  Next on the Senate 

23           side we will have Senator Mannion.

24                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you, Chair.


                                                                   441

 1                  A few words I heard today were, 

 2           recently, innovation, freedom, flexibility, 

 3           opportunity, choice.  When we don't have a 

 4           workforce, we don't have any of those things, 

 5           and we don't have quality.

 6                  My question is on self-direction, for 

 7           Jim.  There have been recently changes to 

 8           regulations or qualifications for individuals 

 9           with self-direction.  Can you talk about what 

10           those are and what population we're talking 

11           about that is under those new rules?

12                  MR. KARPE:  So I think what you're 

13           referring to are the shadow policies.  In 

14           November of 2022, OPWDD gave a presentation 

15           to the fiscal intermediaries, providing them 

16           with 10 red flags that they had a 

17           responsibility to look for.  And these 

18           include a class going for too long, a class 

19           advertising itself as being open to the 

20           public -- because of course if you say you're 

21           open to the public, that's something to be 

22           suspicious about.

23                  You heard the commissioner talk about 

24           how we must obey the contract that we have 


                                                                   442

 1           with the federal agency.  There's a far-off 

 2           land on the other side of the Hudson -- 

 3           New Jersey -- where they apparently have a 

 4           different federal agency, because they allow 

 5           classes that are aimed purely for people with 

 6           I/DD.  Their equivalent to OPWDD actually 

 7           pre-approves a community provider to provide 

 8           a class.

 9                  So the idea that New York is somehow 

10           constrained by federal oversight is simply 

11           not as true as New York would like to have 

12           you believe.  

13                  The feds say New York has the right to 

14           put in further restrictions if they want, and 

15           New York has.  And that is having a negative 

16           impact on people who are everywhere from very 

17           light needs, such as my daughter, to people 

18           with very heavy needs, like my colleague 

19           Jackie's son, who's nonverbal, 

20           six-foot-three, 220 pounds, and won't be 

21           taken by most dayhab programs.  So she has 

22           created something which is a place, a 

23           community class where he can go, but now 

24           she's under attack, JCCs are under attack.  


                                                                   443

 1           It's a ridiculous thing.  It's an innovation 

 2           that should be embraced.  It's that start of 

 3           a new thing.  And instead, we seem here in 

 4           New York to be saying, Let's put a stop to 

 5           that, let's only do what we've done before.  

 6                  If we keep doing what we've done 

 7           before, we're not going to make progress.

 8                  SENATOR MANNION:  Thank you.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN WEINSTEIN:  Thank you.

10                  Assemblyman Maher.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAHER:  Thank you.

12                  So I don't think I've met a colleague 

13           on either side of the aisle, in the Senate or 

14           the Assembly, that doesn't -- that I have 

15           talked to that doesn't agree about the 

16           3.2 percent and more.  So I'm hoping from now 

17           to the budget, that when it's finalized, you 

18           guys get that start that you want.  I'm, you 

19           know, hopeful for that, we'll be pushing for 

20           that.

21                  When it comes to innovation, I'm very 

22           curious about some of those programs.  I know 

23           you submitted written testimony.  Can you 

24           speak to anything that is outside the box in 


                                                                   444

 1           terms of addressing the need for housing?

 2                  MR. KARPE:  So with regard to housing, 

 3           there's the housing subsidy, which is -- it's 

 4           wonderful that they have increased it, that 

 5           after a decade of neglect we are now at the 

 6           current rate.  That's fantastic.

 7                  It can still be challenging, depending 

 8           upon the environment.  It's adequate in rural 

 9           areas, it's adequate in some boroughs but not 

10           others.  

11                  Where we would like to see more 

12           innovation is in the ability to support 

13           people once they're in that housing.  There's 

14           a model that's been in -- it's sad to say, 

15           New York is 20 years behind Kansas.  There's 

16           a model that's been in place in Kansas for 

17           two decades where people can, using remote 

18           technology, be supported in their home by 

19           essentially a coach on demand.  Not a 

20           hotline, but a cold line.

21                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAHER:  So I love the fact 

22           that we can learn from our -- some of our 

23           neighboring states and some 

24           not-so-neighboring.


                                                                   445

 1                  I know there are a lot of hidden costs 

 2           to individuals and families that are 

 3           receiving services and that are provided 

 4           resources.  For example, we have a local 

 5           family that insurance didn't cover a car seat 

 6           for a larger child that has special needs, 

 7           and these expenses can be thousands of 

 8           dollars.

 9                  Do you see that there is a shortage of 

10           some nonprofit organizations, or maybe 

11           there's more synergy that needs to exist in 

12           terms of some of those individual expenses?  

13           And do you see that as as much of a need as 

14           I'm seeing it in my local community?

15                  MR. KARPE:  Absolutely.  There is a 

16           process of getting technical support, support 

17           for durable equipment, but it's a very 

18           onerous process.  Even when it's as clear-cut 

19           as your wheelchair has broken and you need a 

20           new wheelchair.  It's not as fluid as it 

21           should be.  Absolutely.  

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN MAHER:  Okay.  Thank you 

23           all.

24                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay, next we have 


                                                                   446

 1           Senator Canzoneri-Fitzpatrick.

 2                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

 3           you, Madam Chair.  

 4                  Thank you, everybody, for being here.

 5                  Mr. Karpe, we had a chance to meet 

 6           yesterday and I was very happy to learn more 

 7           about self-direction, and I support what 

 8           you're trying to do for your family.  And I 

 9           know Jackie as well, and what she's trying to 

10           do.  So thank you for being here today to 

11           testify.

12                  Mr. Harris, I had a question about 

13           some of the statistics in your report.  

14           Community First navigators have interacted 

15           2,273 times with 881 individuals.  So quick 

16           math, it seems like we're interacting with 

17           the same people two and three times.

18                  And 17 people voluntarily accepted 

19           mental health services.  So my question to 

20           you is, what happened in those 17 specific 

21           situations that we need to try to do better 

22           with the other 881 people?

23                  And then my follow-up question is 

24           about the Supportive Intervention Act, 


                                                                   447

 1           because my understanding is that involuntary 

 2           admission is not something that we push for 

 3           because it doesn't typically work.  So I'd 

 4           like to have you explain why you think that 

 5           that's going to fix our gaps and flaws.

 6                  MR. HARRIS:  So first, with -- the 

 7           Community First model is built on trust.  So 

 8           we go out there, our peer navigators interact 

 9           with the same people.  They meet them where 

10           they are, find out what resources and support 

11           that are needed, and then we move them to the 

12           next step.

13                  So it really is trust-based, building 

14           that trust.  We work with Breaking Ground, we 

15           work with Fountain House, we work with the 

16           Center for Justice Innovation so we can sort 

17           of provide a robust array of services.  And 

18           we were lucky that it clicked with those 

19           17 people and they accepted service.

20                  As far as the involuntary removal, 

21           it's a tool in the toolbox for a small -- 

22           small minority of people who are out on the 

23           streets who really are dying slowly.  I mean, 

24           I have -- I won't share the pictures, but I 


                                                                   448

 1           could share them afterwards.  If you just 

 2           look at the people who are suffering on our 

 3           streets and dying slowly or, worse yet, 

 4           committing crimes and ending up in the 

 5           criminal justice system, we need to find 

 6           another option.  

 7                  And if that option is taking them 

 8           briefly to a hospital so that we can get a 

 9           reset and get them back functioning -- we saw 

10           two instances when we had involuntary 

11           removals last year.  It was Code Blue, so 

12           they picked up anyone -- it was under 32 

13           degrees.  They picked up five people in 

14           Times Square.  Three of them stayed in, got 

15           service and support and never went back to 

16           the street.

17                  We did a program with the Mayor's 

18           Office of Mental Health where, two weeks in 

19           Times Square, intensive, eight people were 

20           brought to the hospital with a clinical 

21           psychiatrist.  They did not come back out to 

22           the street.

23                  SENATOR CANZONERI-FITZPATRICK:  Thank 

24           you.


                                                                   449

 1                  MR. HARRIS:  So it's a balance.

 2                  SENATOR BROUK:  Next we have 

 3           Assemblymember Kelles.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  I just want to, 

 5           so it's on the record, share a summary of 

 6           what I've been hearing today from everyone, 

 7           just so it's clear.  In my mind, one way or 

 8           another, we're still paying.  

 9                  I loved that you said at the bottom, 

10           it's about the direct service provider -- 

11           it's about the providers, making sure that 

12           they get paid.  Right now, because they're 

13           not paid, we have a shortage of 25 percent in 

14           some categories of what we need across the 

15           board.  Right?  On top of it, they don't get 

16           paid enough, so they're on social services.  

17           So we pay there.

18                  We also pay -- because there's not 

19           enough, we end up with more people who end up 

20           homeless.  Because they're homeless, we know 

21           that they're more likely to be engaged with 

22           the criminal justice system.  Again, we pay 

23           again.

24                  We have people who have mental health 


                                                                   450

 1           issues that we're not treating.  Many times 

 2           they end up treating with substance -- you 

 3           know, ending up with a substance use disorder 

 4           because they're self-medicating.  Again, we 

 5           pay for that.  They end up in the carceral 

 6           system, again, we pay for that.  We have 

 7           direct service providers that they're -- just 

 8           to continue to keep working, end up in cases 

 9           where they have substance use disorders 

10           because they don't have time to treat 

11           themselves.  They end up losing their job, 

12           they end up homeless -- spiral, spiral, 

13           spiral.

14                  I could just keep going.  This is -- I 

15           just want to note we still are paying.  So 

16           why don't we just start paying where we 

17           could, which is paying the service providers 

18           to prevent all of this stuff in the first 

19           place?  So I just want to say this is just 

20           the most efficient use of our funding.  So 

21           that's just out of respect to all of you, 

22           just to make that note.  

23                  I did want to also note that when 

24           we're talking about COLA, again, again, 


                                                                   451

 1           again, it is not a wage increase.  It is just 

 2           to keep a wage cut.  That's really important.  

 3           This Governor, though, she has invested in 

 4           COLA for the last couple of years.  I want to 

 5           honor her for that.  And it's still not 

 6           enough.  We need it to meet inflation every 

 7           single year, and it has been less than 

 8           inflation for many of those years.

 9                  So I know that isn't a question, and I 

10           am sorry for that, but I just wanted you all 

11           to know that I hear you.  I did just want one 

12           last, in the 48 seconds, because I can't ask 

13           everyone questions.  I met with a group of 

14           parents, very, very frustrated with the 

15           self-directed program.  One of the things 

16           they said is that there are nuanced 

17           restrictions that seem totally arbitrary that 

18           prevent, you know, them using the system.

19                  Can you talk a little bit about those 

20           arbitrary restrictions, share a couple of 

21           ideas?

22                  MR. KARPE:  Yes.  So for example, one 

23           fiscal intermediary did some freelance 

24           policymaking and said anything that lasts 


                                                                   452

 1           longer than two hours will not be approved.  

 2                  Other fiscal intermediaries have been 

 3           forced by fear -- and they're not to blame, 

 4           but have been forced by fear to sit outside a 

 5           class and look at the people going in and 

 6           judge how many of those people are disabled.

 7                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Just a couple 

 9           of examples.  Thank you very much.

10                  SENATOR BROUK:  Next we will have -- 

11                  (Time clock continuing to chime.)

12                  SENATOR BROUK:  Okay.

13                  (Laughter.)

14                  SENATOR BROUK:  Next we'll have 

15           Senator Weber.

16                  SENATOR WEBER:  Thank you, 

17           Madam Chairwoman.  

18                  And I want to thank the panel for 

19           being here today and really providing great 

20           testimony and real-life and real-world 

21           experiences as to what's going on.

22                  You know, we in Rockland County, the 

23           legislators, recently met with our DSP 

24           providers, and we all saw the fear in their 


                                                                   453

 1           eyes.  You know, whether or not they're going 

 2           to be able to keep the doors open long-term.

 3                  We've heard the -- we've heard the 

 4           stories of employees sleeping in their cars, 

 5           not having enough food, not having enough 

 6           money to pay their rent and the utility bills 

 7           because they're not making a wage that is 

 8           anywhere near matching the cost of living 

 9           where we are downstate.

10                  So I just want to reinforce -- and I 

11           know my colleagues feel the same way, you 

12           know.  The wage enhancement, totally in favor 

13           of it.  The COLA increase, 3.2, it probably 

14           should be 6.4, higher than that.  I think we 

15           all realize that.  And I believe if we all 

16           had a magic wand, we would make that happen 

17           right now.  And that's the commitment I know 

18           you have from this legislative branch.

19                  Jim, I just want to pick up on a few 

20           things, because I meet with self-direction 

21           family advocates all the time.  And the 

22           community class -- you know, the frustration 

23           with the community classes is something that 

24           I know is of major concern with them. 


                                                                   454

 1                  And maybe you could just speak to that 

 2           a little bit more.  And also maybe -- also 

 3           speak to what administrative changes would 

 4           you like to see made at OPWDD?  If you had a 

 5           priority list, what things can be done, you 

 6           know, administratively that you think would 

 7           free up the system and be helpful in so many 

 8           ways?

 9                  MR. KARPE:  So thank you for that 

10           opening.

11                  One thing that the community of 

12           self-direction families believes would be 

13           very useful would be to have a seat at the 

14           table.  Not someone for us to talk to, but 

15           somebody to talk for us.  When the 

16           commissioner sits with her deputies, there is 

17           not anybody who represents self-direction.  

18           To find somebody who's devoted to 

19           self-direction, you have to go not one level, 

20           not two levels, but three levels below the 

21           commissioner.  So you have people from audit 

22           and you have people from budget, and you 

23           don't have somebody who can say, No, it's not 

24           true that self-direction is more expensive 


                                                                   455

 1           per person.  And no, it's not true that 

 2           self-direction is less equitable.

 3                  Self-direction is actually, at this 

 4           point, based on OPWDD's statistics, is more 

 5           equitable than certified residences.  We 

 6           still have a lot of room to go.  If they 

 7           could prepay for -- right now it requires 

 8           reimbursement, and that creates a financial 

 9           barrier to entry.  I am, at any point in 

10           time, waiting for $5,000 in reimbursement.  

11           I'm blessed to be able to do that.  There's a 

12           lot of families out there who don't.  It 

13           wouldn't take that much money to eliminate 

14           that.

15                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

16                  SENATOR WEBER:  Thank you.

17                  SENATOR BROUK:  Next we'll go to 

18           Assemblymember Burdick.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Thank you.

20                  And sorry that I'm a little late to 

21           hearing this panel.  

22                  Questions for Mr. Karpe, but before 

23           that I would say that I am joining the chorus 

24           of everyone who wants to see the 3.2 percent 


                                                                   456

 1           and the $4,000 wage enhancement.  I think 

 2           probably all of us have been to rallies and 

 3           so forth for that.

 4                  But I want to go back to the 

 5           conversation that a number of us had with you 

 6           about community classes.  And I guess it must 

 7           be the New Jersey Division of Developmental 

 8           Disabilities that has said CMS allows for 

 9           this.  Do you happen to know whether they got 

10           a waiver for that?  Did they get anything 

11           that is in writing from CMS that we then can 

12           discuss with OPWDD?  That's one question that 

13           I have for you.

14                  A second one -- and I may have some 

15           more that I'll do in writing.  And if you've 

16           already been asked this question, just forget 

17           it.  You brought up concerns about managed 

18           care.  And I'd like to know a little bit more 

19           about our opposition to that.

20                  MR. KARPE:  Sure.

21                  So CMS -- I fear that what's going on 

22           is that New York still has a relationship 

23           with the CMS in the mind of 20 years ago.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  No, I get that, 


                                                                   457

 1           Jim.  You and I talked about that a little 

 2           bit. 

 3                  MR. KARPE:  But CMS has --

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  But do you know 

 5           whether New Jersey has gotten anything in 

 6           writing from CMS that says, Yes, you can 

 7           pre-approve classes, as an example?

 8                  MR. KARPE:  Well, they --

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Anything that we 

10           could use that --

11                  MR. KARPE:  Well, they have it as 

12           their -- as their policy.  So I assume it's 

13           been reviewed in some way.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  It's their 

15           policy in writing, in --

16                  MR. KARPE:  Yes, it's their policy in 

17           writing.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  CMS has to 

19           approve that, presumably, right?

20                  MR. KARPE:  Yeah.  Yeah.  So it's 

21           based on their waiver.  I haven't gone 

22           through the investigation of their waiver, 

23           but I'm --

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Okay.  It might 


                                                                   458

 1           be helpful if you can get us a copy of the 

 2           New Jersey policy.

 3                  MR. KARPE:  Yup.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  That could be 

 5           helpful for us in talking with OPWDD.

 6                  MR. KARPE:  Sure.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Because, look, 

 8           there have been issues that OPWDD in past 

 9           years has had, you know, that they had to 

10           correct with CMS, as you may know.

11                  MR. KARPE:  Yeah.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  And so I think 

13           that we have to get over that resistance.

14                  MR. KARPE:  Yeah, it's page 121 of 

15           their --

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  And your -- your 

17           opposition to managed care.

18                  MR. KARPE:  Yeah, regarding managed 

19           care, managed care makes beautiful promises, 

20           right?  It's -- it's an absolutely lovely 

21           system on paper.  The problem is it doesn't 

22           deliver on those promises.  It does not 

23           actually reduce costs, it does not improve 

24           quality.  


                                                                   459

 1                  The one thing that it's been shown to 

 2           do is to reduce the rate of hospitalization, 

 3           the rate of emergency room use.  But we can 

 4           do that just by providing group homes and 

 5           people not in group homes with access to the 

 6           thing -- to telehealth.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  So what doesn't 

 8           it do?

 9                  MR. KARPE:  Well, what it does do is 

10           it increases --

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Does not do.

12                  MR. KARPE:  It doesn't really do 

13           anything except for hold 6 to 12 percent of 

14           the budget out of the system.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN BURDICK:  Thank you.

16                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

17                  All right, last three minutes.  You're 

18           almost done, so thank you all so much.

19                  I want to just start with Sebrina.  

20           You talked about a $230 million investment 

21           about modernizing care.  Can you just give 

22           another example of what some of that 

23           modernization could look like?

24                  MS. BARRETT:  Yeah, sure.  You and I 


                                                                   460

 1           have talked a lot about the aging population 

 2           in OMH housing.  Our residents -- it's good 

 3           news, they're getting older, that means 

 4           they're living longer.  But, you know, we 

 5           have about 40 percent of our residents who 

 6           are age 55 or older; a third of them are age 

 7           65 and older.  And folks with severe mental 

 8           illness age more quickly.  And so they 

 9           present a lot of really challenging medical 

10           needs, mobility issues, dementia, COPD, all 

11           those things.  

12                  And so we don't have the right kind of 

13           staff to help them with those issues.  And so 

14           what ends up happening is rather than doing 

15           something on the preventative side or 

16           something that can keep someone out of an 

17           emergency room or out of a long-term hospital 

18           stay, can help them age in place, they just 

19           end up cycling back and forth from the 

20           residence.

21                  Also, a lot of our residences aren't 

22           equipped for mobility.  So enhancements would 

23           also just add things that would enable people 

24           to move around.


                                                                   461

 1                  And we also have residents who are 

 2           unable to -- they need help with toileting 

 3           and they need help with bathing.  That is not 

 4           something our current staff are even trained 

 5           or even really supposed to be helping with.  

 6           So that's a part of the enhancements, along 

 7           with a lot of the other challenges that we've 

 8           talked about.

 9                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  I 

10           appreciate that.  And I think it is a good 

11           thing that we have an aging population, but 

12           it also means we need to change what we do.

13                  My last minute and a half I want to go 

14           back to Mr. Harris talking about some of the 

15           things you've discussed.  So in hearing the 

16           statistics about 75 percent of folks who were 

17           engaged with -- I think you said peers or 

18           social workers or mental health providers, 

19           got the services they needed.

20                  MR. HARRIS:  (Mic off; inaudible.)

21                  SENATOR BROUK:  Mental health 

22           providers.  Okay.  That's really -- that's 

23           successful.  

24                  So I guess my question is -- I know 


                                                                   462

 1           you talked about some ways to expand 

 2           involuntary treatment.  But my question would 

 3           be there are so many successful voluntary 

 4           programs, which obviously is -- should be the 

 5           goal.  Have you looked at additional 

 6           services?  And one example is one we heard 

 7           about earlier today with INSET, where they 

 8           had an 83 percent success rate of 

 9           successfully engaging folks who need this 

10           kind of care.

11                  So what work can we do to really make 

12           sure that we have a clear understanding of 

13           all of the existing voluntary methods of 

14           getting people services that they need?

15                  MR. HARRIS:  So voluntary options are 

16           first, second, third options.  I mean, it's 

17           only as a last resort, when everything else 

18           fails, that it's inhumane to just let those 

19           people stay on the street without taking them 

20           in, to having someone evaluate them.

21                  SENATOR BROUK:  Would you be willing 

22           to look at others, though, that perhaps you 

23           all aren't as familiar with, and --

24                  MR. HARRIS:  Oh, sure.  I mean, we've 


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 1           been looking at -- I mean, our Community 

 2           First model sort of looked at everything and 

 3           tried to pull best practices.  There are just 

 4           some people that --

 5                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.

 6                  MR. HARRIS:  Yeah.

 7                  SENATOR BROUK:  All right.  All right, 

 8           we did it!  Thank you all so much to Panel E 

 9           for sticking it out.

10                  And I guess that concludes the 

11           Mental Hygiene hearing, with Samra Brouk as 

12           Liz Krueger.

13                  (Laughter.)

14                  MULTIPLE PANELISTS:  Thank you.  

15                  SENATOR BROUK:  Thank you.  

16                  (Whereupon, at 4:34 p.m., the budget 

17           hearing concluded.)

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