Public Hearing - January 27, 2025

                                                                       1

 1  BEFORE THE NEW YORK STATE SENATE FINANCE
    AND ASSEMBLY WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEES
 2  ----------------------------------------------------

 3          JOINT LEGISLATIVE HEARING
               In the Matter of the
 4         2025-2026 EXECUTIVE BUDGET ON
      AGRICULTURE & MARKETS/PARKS & RECREATION
 5  
    ----------------------------------------------------
 6
                                Hearing Room B
 7                              Legislative Office Building
                               Albany, New York
 8  
                                January 27, 2025
 9                              1:05 p.m.
    
10
    PRESIDING:
11
              Senator Liz Krueger
12            Chair, Senate Finance Committee
    
13            Assemblyman Gary Pretlow
              Chair, Assembly Ways & Means Committee
14  
    PRESENT:
15
              Senator Thomas F. O'Mara 
16            Senate Finance Committee (RM)
    
17            Assemblyman Edward P. Ra 
              Assembly Ways & Means Committee (RM)
18  
              Senator Michelle Hinchey
19            Chair, Senate Committee on Agriculture
    
20            Assemblywoman Donna A. Lupardo
              Chair, Assembly Committee on Agriculture
21  
              Senator José M. Serrano
22            Chair, Senate Committee on Cultural 
                Affairs, Tourism, Arts and Recreation
23  

24


                                                                   2

 1  2025-2026 Executive Budget
    Agriculture/Parks
 2  1-27-25
    
 3  PRESENT:  (Continued)
    
 4            Assemblyman Ron Kim
              Chair, Assembly Committee on
 5             Tourism, Parks, Arts and 
               Sports Development
 6  
              Senator Patricia Fahy
 7  
              Assemblyman Steven Otis
 8  
              Senator Chris Ryan
 9  
              Assemblyman Brian Cunningham
10  
              Senator Peter Oberacker
11  
              Assemblyman Scott Gray
12  
              Assemblywoman Jodi Giglio
13  
              Senator Jim Tedisco
14  
              Assemblyman Brian D. Miller
15  
              Assemblywoman Rebecca A. Seawright
16  
              Assemblyman Steven Raga
17  
              Senator Nathalia Fernandez
18  
              Assemblyman Joe Angelino
19  
              Assemblyman Al Stirpe
20  
              Assemblywoman Mary Beth Walsh
21  
              Assemblyman Tommy John Schiavoni
22  
              Assemblywoman Paula Elaine Kay
23  
              Senator Pamela Helming
24  
    

                                                                   3

 1  2025-2026 Executive Budget
    Agriculture/Parks
 2  1-27-25
    
 3  PRESENT:  (Continued)
    
 4            Assemblywoman Carrie Woerner
    
 5            Senator George M. Borrello
    
 6            Assemblyman Chris Tague
    
 7            Assemblyman John Lemondes
    
 8            Assemblyman Matthew Simpson
    
 9            Assemblywoman Dr. Anna R. Kelles
    
10            Assemblywoman Stefani Zinerman
    
11            Assemblywoman Jo Anne Simon
    
12  
    
13  
    
14  

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24


                                                                   4

 1  2025-2026 Executive Budget
    Agriculture/Parks
 2  1-27-25
    
 3                     LIST OF SPEAKERS 
    
 4                                      STATEMENT  QUESTIONS
    
 5  Richard A. Ball
    Commissioner
 6  NYS Department of Agriculture
     and Markets                           
 7       -and-
    Randy Simons 
 8  Commissioner
    NYS Office of Parks, Recreation
 9   and Historic Preservation             15          32
    
10  Katie Baildon
    Policy Coordinator
11  Northeast Organic Farming
     Association of New York
12   (NOFA-NY)
         -and-
13  Kyle Wallach
    Associate Director of
14   Public Policy
    New York Farm Bureau
15       -and-
    Allyson Jones-Brimmer
16  VP of Regulatory and
     Legislative Affairs
17  Northeast Dairy Producers 
     Association
18       -and-
    Josh Stephani
19  Manager 
    Adirondack Food System Network        178         190
20  
    
21

22

23

24


                                                                   5

 1  2025-2026 Executive Budget
    Agriculture/Parks
 2  1-27-25
    
 3                     LIST OF SPEAKERS, Cont.
    
 4                                      STATEMENT  QUESTIONS
    
 5  Bill Ketzer
    Senior Legislative Director
 6  American Society for the
    Prevention of Cruelty to
 7   Animals 
         -and-
 8  Brian Shapiro
    New York State Director
 9  Humane Society of the 
     United States
10       -and-
    Libby Post
11  Executive Director
    New York State Animal
12   Protection Federation               214          224
    
13  Will Coté 
    Senior Director, Public Lands
14  Parks & Trails New York                
         -and-
15  Julian Mangano 
    New York Policy Manager
16  American Farmland Trust               
         -and-
17  Carli Fraccarolli
    Government Relations Manager
18  Scenic Hudson                        234          244
    
19  
    
20  
    
21  
    
22

23

24


                                                                   6

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Hi.  If everybody 

 2           would start to take their seats, we can get 

 3           the show rolling.  One more second while the 

 4           Assembly gets one thing taken care of.  

 5           (Pause.)  Okay, we have people seated.  

 6           Legislators have enough seats to sit in.  

 7           Great.  

 8                  Well, welcome to the first budget 

 9           hearing for 2025.  I'm Senator Liz Krueger, 

10           chair of the Senate Finance Committee, and 

11           next to me is the brand-new chair of Ways and 

12           Means in the Assembly, Gary Pretlow.  

13           Welcome.  As he said, it's not his first 

14           rodeo, but it's his first rodeo as the chair 

15           of Ways and Means.  

16                  And I'm just going to do the opening 

17           remarks -- no, I'm going to go over a few of 

18           the rules of the road.

19                  One, for all the legislators here, 

20           when you want to speak, put your speaker on 

21           the green.  You can push the button.  And if 

22           you are talking and you accidentally turned 

23           it on or you forgot, the people in the back, 

24           in the room, might decide to turn it off for 


                                                                   7

 1           you, but always keep your eye on whether your 

 2           mic is green or red.  

 3                  For everyone, legislators and our 

 4           testifiers, there are clocks that you can see 

 5           in a variety of places when you're looking 

 6           this way (indicating), or when you're looking 

 7           this way.  And that's the amount of time you 

 8           have available to you.  So when you're 

 9           testifying, that's your amount of time to 

10           testify.  

11                  When legislators are asking questions, 

12           that clock is the amount of time you have to 

13           ask questions and get answers.  I have to go 

14           over this every year in every hearing.  

15           Sometimes you spend all three minutes asking 

16           the question.  That means you don't get an 

17           answer.  So try not to use all the minutes on 

18           your clock to ask the question, because then 

19           it's more of a speech.  And some of us love 

20           giving speeches, but then the testifiers will 

21           only be able to say "I can get back to you at 

22           a later date," because we're not going to 

23           give them time to answer you.  So just keep 

24           your eye on the clocks.  


                                                                   8

 1                  And it's red and then it goes to 

 2           yellow when you're close -- I'm sorry, it's 

 3           green, then it goes to yellow when you're 

 4           close, and then it goes to red when you're 

 5           done.  All right?  

 6                  And just for keeping track, for the 

 7           time that people have, witnesses from 

 8           government have 10 minutes to testify.  

 9           Nongovernment witnesses have less time a 

10           little later; they have only three minutes to 

11           testify.  

12                  Then the chairs of the relevant 

13           committees -- we have three of them today; we 

14           have the Finance chair, the Ag chair, the 

15           Cultural Affairs chair -- they get 10 minutes 

16           to ask questions, and only they get a second 

17           round for three minutes if they have 

18           additional questions.  The relevant 

19           rankers -- again, three committees -- each 

20           have five minutes, no second round.  All 

21           other members have three minutes, no second 

22           round.  

23                  I know people always think that's too 

24           little time, I get it, particularly 


                                                                   9

 1           legislators.  You're allowed to go find these 

 2           people and ask them questions any time you 

 3           want.  And for nongovernmental people who 

 4           come to testify and got so little time to 

 5           talk, just remember, they're living for you 

 6           to call them and ask them more questions.  

 7           They will more than happily come to your 

 8           offices to talk to you about their testimony, 

 9           they will get on the phone to answer 

10           questions.  So this is not anybody's only 

11           opportunity to ask questions and get 

12           questions answered.  

13                  Okay, with that, before I make the 

14           official opening to the hearing, I'm going to 

15           introduce Democratic Senators who are here 

16           already.  And I see our chair, Michelle 

17           Hinchey, of Agriculture and our chair of 

18           Parks and Tourism and the rest of the name of 

19           that committee -- I'm sorry -- Senator 

20           Serrano.  

21                  Are there other Democrats up here?  I 

22           see Senator Fahy.  Oh, and Senator Chris 

23           Ryan, brand-new Senator Chris Ryan.  We have 

24           two Senator Ryans now in the Senate, so you 


                                                                   10

 1           have to practice.  

 2                  And I will turn it over to my ranker 

 3           to introduce -- Tom O'Mara, the ranker on 

 4           Finance, to introduce the Republicans.

 5                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you, 

 6           Chairwoman Krueger.  

 7                  Good afternoon, everyone.  Thank you 

 8           for being here.

 9                  We are joined on our side of the aisle 

10           by Senators Jim Tedisco, George Borrello, 

11           Pam Helming, and Pete Oberacker.

12                  Thank you.  

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Great.  Okay, and 

14           now I'm going to turn it over to my Assembly 

15           colleagues to introduce their sides.

16                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  (Mic off.)  Thank 

17           you, Senator Krueger, and good afternoon, 

18           everyone.  

19                  I won't make an opening statement.  

20           It's good to be here.  As I said earlier, 

21           it's not my first rodeo, it's the first time 

22           of riding 8 seconds on the bull.  

23                  (Laughter.)

24                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:   So we have our 


                                                                   11

 1           relevant chairs here.  From Parks is 

 2           Senator -- that was a joke -- Assemblyman Ron 

 3           Kim, and on that committee we have 

 4           Carrie Woerner.  And the Agriculture chair, 

 5           Donna Lupardo, and on that committee Dr. Anna 

 6           Kelles, Brian Cunningham, and Steven Raga are 

 7           here.  We also have joining, as an observer, 

 8           Assemblywoman Seawright.  

 9                  And Mr. Ra will introduce his 

10           colleagues.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Good afternoon.  We 

12           are joined by Assemblyman Chris Tague, our 

13           ranker on Agriculture; Assemblyman Scott 

14           Gray, our ranker on Tourism and Parks; and 

15           Members Giglio, Angelino, Miller and Simpson.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Do you have any 

17           more?

18                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  (Mic off.)  And I 

19           missed one individual.  Assemblyman Steve 

20           Otis is here. 

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Great.  

22                  And also, for new legislators or 

23           people who don't usually come to budget 

24           hearings, if you want to ask questions, you 


                                                                   12

 1           want to make sure you are telling -- if 

 2           you're a Senate Dem or an Assembly Dem, you 

 3           want to tell Assemblymember Pretlow or me 

 4           that you want to be on the list to ask 

 5           questions.  

 6                  And if you are a Republican, you want 

 7           to let your two leaders know that you want to 

 8           ask questions, so that we make sure that we 

 9           have the list of who wants to ask the 

10           questions.  

11                  With that, I will just take one -- 

12           30 seconds to say today is the 

13           80th anniversary of Holocaust Memorial Day.  

14           It was 80 years ago today that the 

15           U.S. military went into Auschwitz and found 

16           what they found.  It was a Holocaust of 

17           nearly 10 million people.  When it was done, 

18           two out of three Jews in Europe were killed, 

19           many other non-Jews with us, and Russian 

20           soldiers as well.  

21                  And I -- if I was on the floor of the 

22           Senate today, I would be giving a resolution 

23           which will go on without me today.  But I 

24           thought I would just take a moment for that.  


                                                                   13

 1                  And now we'll switch to the actual 

 2           hearing, which is on Agriculture and Parks 

 3           and Recreation.  So again, I've already 

 4           introduced myself as Liz Krueger, cochairing 

 5           today's budget hearing.  

 6                  Today is the first of 14 hearings 

 7           conducted by the joint fiscal committees of 

 8           the Legislature regarding the Governor's 

 9           proposed budget for state fiscal year 

10           '25-'26.  These hearings are conducted 

11           pursuant to the New York State Constitution 

12           and Legislative Law.  

13                  Today the Senate Finance Committee and 

14           the Assembly Ways and Means Committee will 

15           hear testimony concerning the Governor's 

16           proposed budget for departments of 

17           Agriculture and Markets and the Office of 

18           Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.

19                  Following each testimony there will be 

20           some time for questions from the chairs of 

21           the fiscal committees and other legislators.  

22                  We've already introduced the members 

23           from both houses, so I am going to remind 

24           everyone that any testimony that is 


                                                                   14

 1           submitted, whether or not you have a chance 

 2           to testify in person, will be on the 

 3           appropriate websites of both the Senate and 

 4           the Assembly so that everyone can read the 

 5           testimony submitted by anyone and everyone.  

 6           Because sometimes people get told that they 

 7           don't have time to testify.  

 8                  And sometimes -- I don't think it will 

 9           be a problem today, but some of these 

10           hearings run much longer than others, and by 

11           late in the day people realize, If I don't 

12           get on the train, I won't get home.  

13                  So if you are signed up to testify and 

14           for some reason you know you're not going to 

15           be able to stay to testify, just do us a 

16           favor, come down to the front to any of these 

17           people here and let them know so that we're 

18           not looking for you when you've already 

19           decided you have to leave town.  

20                  With that, I want to welcome our first 

21           panel:  Richard Ball, commissioner of the 

22           Department of Agriculture and Markets, and 

23           welcoming the Office of Parks, Recreation and 

24           Historic Preservation.  I will also be 


                                                                   15

 1           introducing Randy Simons, commissioner 

 2           pro tem and chief of staff of the Office of 

 3           Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.  

 4           But we'll be starting with Richard Ball.  

 5                  And again, after the final 

 6           question-and-answer period there will be an 

 7           opportunity for members of the public to 

 8           briefly express their views.  So everybody 

 9           should have gotten copies of the list of 

10           testifiers.  

11                  And if you know you're on the next 

12           panel, you might want to come down towards 

13           the front as we're getting done with the 

14           panel before you.  This is all just to try to 

15           get it to run as smoothly as possible.  

16                  And with that:  Commissioner Ball, 

17           welcome.  

18                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  (Mic 

19           off.)

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Yours is not 

21           green.  Press.  Press again.  I'm still 

22           seeing red.  Press a little harder.  Ah, 

23           there you go.

24                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Aha, 


                                                                   16

 1           green.  

 2                  Thank you, Senator.  And thank you for 

 3           the thoughtful introduction to today's 

 4           activities.  Appreciate that.

 5                  Good afternoon, Chair Krueger, 

 6           Chair Pretlow, Senator Hinchey, 

 7           Assemblymember Lupardo, members of the 

 8           agricultural committees, and elected 

 9           officials.  I am pleased to offer my 

10           testimony on the fiscal year '25-'26 

11           Executive Budget for the Department of 

12           Agriculture & Markets.  

13                  In this year's Executive Budget 

14           Governor Hochul continues to demonstrate her 

15           commitment to New York agriculture.  Her 

16           first two budgets increased funding for our 

17           industry by 60 percent, and I'm happy to see 

18           that this year's plan continues to build on 

19           that commitment.  

20                  The Executive Budget recommends 

21           $364 million for the department, which allows 

22           us to maintain our core functions and carry 

23           out initiatives to boost our sustainability 

24           efforts and food systems, further our 


                                                                   17

 1           workforce and agriculture education goals, 

 2           and invest in capital projects, marketing, 

 3           and research to grow the industry.  

 4                  Agriculture is a cornerstone of the 

 5           economy in our state, with nearly 

 6           32,000 farms numbering among the nation's top 

 7           producers of more than 30 different 

 8           commodities.  Our dairy industry is a big 

 9           part of that, with dairy farming making up 

10           half of New York's agricultural economy.  

11           Through the Dairy Think Tank, we know that we 

12           share a goal with our dairy farmers, and that 

13           is to make New York the most sustainable 

14           dairy state in the country. 

15                  Building on last year's historic 

16           investments in New York’s dairy community, 

17           the Governor this year is proposing 

18           $10 million for the second round of the 

19           Dairy Modernization Grant Program to update 

20           on-farm milk storage and improve dairy 

21           supply-chain efficiencies.  An additional 

22           $1 million will support cutting-edge research 

23           and further support the implementation of 

24           climate-resilient practices on our dairy 


                                                                   18

 1           farms.  

 2                  These initiatives are vital to our 

 3           nation-leading fight against climate change. 

 4           With Governor Hochul's plan to maintain a 

 5           $400 million Environmental Protection Fund, 

 6           the department will see continued investment 

 7           in programs that reduce the effects of 

 8           climate change and protect our water and our 

 9           land.  

10                  Funding will support farmland and 

11           pollinator protection programs, Soil and 

12           Water Conservation Districts, the Climate 

13           Resilient Farming program, Cornell Soil 

14           Health, and so much more.  The Governor is 

15           also proposing new investments to improve 

16           tracking of lost farmland and increase 

17           capacity within New York's network of 

18           community-led land trusts.  

19                  In addition to climate, a top priority 

20           for the state is supporting our local food 

21           system and expanding access to food for all 

22           New Yorkers.  This year's Executive Budget 

23           includes targeted support to continue this 

24           work, including nearly $4 million for the 


                                                                   19

 1           expanded FreshConnect program and a 

 2           $5 million increase for the Nourish New York 

 3           program.  It also supports the 

 4           Farm-to-School, Farmers' Market Resiliency, 

 5           and Urban Farms and Community Gardens 

 6           programs.  

 7                  In addition, Senior Farmers' Market 

 8           Nutrition Program benefits will be maintained 

 9           at its current level.  The $50 million 

10           Regional School Food Infrastructure Grant 

11           Program will also see another $10 million to 

12           encourage the use of fresh local farm 

13           products in school meals and expand markets 

14           for our New York producers.  

15                  I'm also excited to see support for 

16           New York's fiber and maple industries.  The 

17           $10 million Food and Fiber Small-Scale 

18           Processing Grant Program will fuel the supply 

19           of diverse products for New York's local 

20           purchasing initiatives such as Executive 

21           Order 32.  Additional investments in 

22           marketing and research will help New York to 

23           become the leading innovator in the maple 

24           industry.  The proposed $73 million local 


                                                                   20

 1           assistance budget will also support research 

 2           and promotion for many commodities, including 

 3           craft beverages, apples, vegetables, honey, 

 4           hemp and more.  

 5                  The Executive Budget also builds on 

 6           the state's One Health approach, proposing 

 7           funding to support animal and plant health. 

 8           Again, this year, $4.25 million is proposed 

 9           for Cornell University's Integrated Pest 

10           Management Program.  In support of companion 

11           animal care, $5 million will continue the 

12           Companion Animal Capital Fund, which provides 

13           critical upgrades at animal shelters and 

14           enhanced care for our dogs and our cats.  

15                  One Health also encompasses the health 

16           and well-being of our workforce, who are 

17           essential to the strength of the industry.  

18           To support our farmworkers, I am pleased to 

19           say that the Governor has proposed an 

20           additional $5 million for the Farmworker 

21           Housing Program.  This program will help our 

22           farmers provide safer housing for their 

23           workforce while continuing to meet the 

24           production goals on the farm.  


                                                                   21

 1                  In addition, $3.2 million will create 

 2           safer environments and greater capacity at 

 3           Agri-Business Child Development -- or ABCD -- 

 4           centers.  A total of $13.5 million will be 

 5           dedicated to these facilities overall.  These 

 6           improvements will allow ABCD to expand 

 7           education, health, and nutrition services to 

 8           roughly 1,000 children whose families make up 

 9           New York's farm workforce.  

10                  To ensure the long-term success of the 

11           agricultural industry, we are also working on 

12           strengthening our agricultural education.  We 

13           have had many successes in this area, 

14           especially this past year.  This year's 

15           budget will allow us to further those 

16           efforts, investing $1 million for the 

17           New York Agriculture in the Classroom 

18           program.  This is double the amount of last 

19           year's investment.  Additional funding 

20           totaling $1.8 million is proposed for other 

21           education programs like FFA, 4-H, the 

22           National Society for Minorities in 

23           Agriculture, Natural Resources and Related 

24           Sciences -- or MANRRS -- and the Association 


                                                                   22

 1           of Agricultural Educators.  Together, these 

 2           programs help to grow agriculture education 

 3           and support our next generation.  We will 

 4           join these organizations to kick off the 

 5           Governor's blue-ribbon panel to advance 

 6           agricultural education later this year.  

 7                  Finally, the state is also focusing on 

 8           our county and local fairs, which are hubs 

 9           for agriculture education.  The Executive 

10           Budget includes $2 million to support these 

11           fairs statewide, ensuring that they will 

12           remain a critical avenue to connect 

13           New Yorkers with local food and agriculture.  

14           We are also excited that Governor Hochul has 

15           proposed a nearly $51 million investment for 

16           capital improvements to the Great New York 

17           State Fair.  We plan to upgrade our 

18           entertainment areas to further position the 

19           fairgrounds as a year-round attraction.  This 

20           will build on the fair's ongoing projects, 

21           like new barns, upgrades to the Dairy Bar and 

22           Youth Building, and more –- all of which help 

23           the State Fair continue to spotlight our 

24           vibrant, diverse agricultural industry.  


                                                                   23

 1                  Thanks to the investments that the 

 2           Governor and all of you have made in New York 

 3           agriculture over the years, we today have a 

 4           more resilient food system and a stronger 

 5           industry today.  I look forward to seeing 

 6           that momentum continue as we work together to 

 7           further our shared goals in the coming year.  

 8                  Thank you. 

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

10           much.  And you had two and a half minutes to 

11           spare.  And I'm sorry, Parks doesn't get the 

12           two and a half minutes.  You also get 

13           10 minutes.

14                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

15           Thank you very much.  It's such a pleasure to 

16           be with each of you today.  

17                  Good afternoon, Chair Krueger.  

18           Welcome, Chair Pretlow.  Senator Serrano, 

19           great to see you.  We've spent a lot of time 

20           in celebrating our centennial over the last 

21           year, and appreciate you for helping build 

22           the momentum.  And welcome, Assemblymember 

23           Kim.  Thrilled to see you in the new role.  

24           And members of the State Legislature, thank 


                                                                   24

 1           you, truly, for inviting me here today.  

 2                  I'm honored to represent 

 3           Governor Hochul on behalf of our state parks 

 4           system, which includes 250 state parks, 

 5           historic sites, golf courses, boat launches, 

 6           recreational trails, marinas and more.  The 

 7           Legislature's enduring support for our 

 8           operational and capital funding has truly 

 9           benefited all New Yorkers and has been deeply 

10           appreciative here at Parks.  

11                  Governor Hochul recognizes the park 

12           system's importance to the physical and 

13           mental wellness of our communities.  Our 

14           agency has proudly worked with the Governor 

15           on major initiatives to expand access to 

16           healthy recreation and looks forward to 

17           building on those successes.  

18                  Last year we jumped in with both feet, 

19           literally and figuratively, on the Governor's 

20           NY SWIMS Capital Grant Program.  The program 

21           had two critical goals:  helping 

22           disadvantaged communities across our 

23           neighborhoods to offer safe swimming in an 

24           era of extreme heat, and reducing the number 


                                                                   25

 1           of drownings, a leading cause of death in 

 2           young people.  In the largest investment in 

 3           public swimming since the New Deal, we 

 4           awarded $150 million in grants to 

 5           municipalities to support 37 projects 

 6           statewide, and we're appreciative of our 

 7           partnership with DASNY as well to help make 

 8           that program such a success.  

 9                  NY SWIMS led to another nation-leading 

10           recreation program:  Get Offline, Get 

11           Outside.  Prior to the July 4th weekend, 

12           Governor Hochul removed swimming pool entry 

13           fees at all state parks across our system for 

14           the entire summer.  Through Labor Day, 

15           542,000 people came out to a state park pool.  

16           That was a 36 percent increase -- remarkable.  

17           Twenty-two facilities hosted free swimming 

18           lessons, tripling the number of sites from 

19           the prior year, and we were able to increase 

20           the number of students we taught to swim by 

21           400 percent, to more than 2,000 children.  

22                  And to further protect our patrons at 

23           the pools and the spray grounds when it gets 

24           hot, we gave out roughly 35 gallons of free 


                                                                   26

 1           sunscreen.  

 2                  Now, these programs didn’t just make 

 3           waves locally.  They positioned our agency 

 4           and this state as the vanguard of public 

 5           health and recreation.  Now Governor Hochul's 

 6           Unplug and Play initiative invests 

 7           $200 million in this very necessary work 

 8           through NY BRICKS -- Building Recreational 

 9           Infrastructure for Communities, Kids and 

10           Seniors; NY PLAYS -- New York Places for 

11           Learning, Activity, and Youth 

12           Socialization -- a grant program to aid 

13           municipalities with new and improved 

14           playgrounds; and of course the next phases of 

15           NY SWIMS and Get Offline, Get Outside.  

16                  It has been a pleasure and a privilege 

17           to lead our park system during its centennial 

18           year.  In 2024, we honored influential 

19           figures and milestone moments in our system’s 

20           development.  Our teams hosted one-of-a-kind 

21           centennial events, many of which you were 

22           alongside with us to help us celebrate, and 

23           received hundreds of stories and memories 

24           from our visitors.  


                                                                   27

 1                  Building on the success of the 

 2           centennial, public enthusiasm for our parks 

 3           and historic sites surged in 2024.  We 

 4           welcomed a record-breaking 88 million 

 5           visitors to our state parks.  That's a 

 6           4.5 percent increase over the prior year, 

 7           marking 12 consecutive record years here at 

 8           State Parks.  

 9                  And our parks are doing what the 

10           architects of this system intended -- serving 

11           as affordable destinations for all 

12           New Yorkers while also attracting visitors 

13           from across the country and across the world.  

14                  The Governor's proposed budget 

15           maintains the robust capital and operational 

16           funding necessary and will enable us to shape 

17           our system as we kick off the next 100 years 

18           here in 2025.  

19                  But the work of building our system's 

20           future never stops.  Some of the highlights 

21           from the more than 100 announcements and 

22           events we held in 2024:  

23                  Adding more than 1,000 acres across 

24           our system, from Fahnestock to Moreau Lake to 


                                                                   28

 1           Treman to Taghkanic; 

 2                  Renovated swim facilities at Riverbank 

 3           and Stony Brook to better serve our swimmers; 

 4                  Forty-five miles of greenway trails 

 5           were developed, and we're advancing plans on 

 6           six key trail corridors across New York City 

 7           and the outer boroughs; 

 8                  Work is underway across Selkirk Shores 

 9           State Park and our shorelines at Buffalo 

10           Harbor State Park for a destination spray 

11           area;

12                  New visitor centers at Olana, Bayard 

13           Cutting Arboretum, and Niagara Falls, and new 

14           accessible park infrastructure all across our 

15           system to provide recreational opportunities 

16           for people with disabilities.  

17                  As New York's greatest public 

18           recreation asset, we also are working to 

19           remove financial barriers to those who need 

20           it most.  As of April 1st, I'm particularly 

21           proud of New York State Veterans and our Gold 

22           Star Families, who became eligible for a 

23           Lifetime Liberty Pass.  Since 2014, we issued 

24           approximately 1,200 Lifetime Liberty Passes 


                                                                   29

 1           annually.  After the Governor's initiative, 

 2           we increased that number by 900 percent, to 

 3           over 12,000 passes issued.  Remarkable.  

 4                  And visitor safety is a top priority 

 5           at Parks -- always has been, always will be.  

 6           Fifty-three million, for the first time under 

 7           the Governor, was dedicated to improving 

 8           safety technology infrastructure, staff 

 9           training, and public awareness.  I was 

10           particularly proud of the Junior Ranger 

11           program, which empowered our youngest 

12           visitors to take charge of their personal 

13           safety and built connections between the 

14           public and our Park Rangers.  

15                  We significantly expanded our training 

16           program to equip more staff with essential 

17           skills in visitor engagement, missing person 

18           response, and human trafficking awareness. 

19                  Additionally, we have bolstered our 

20           law enforcement presence by recruiting nearly 

21           50 new Park Police officers since last year, 

22           and we remain steadfast in our commitment to 

23           providing our officers with the necessary 

24           resources to support and effectively fulfill 


                                                                   30

 1           their critical duties to protect our park 

 2           visitors.  

 3                  And in the next two years our system 

 4           will shine brightly at a national and 

 5           international stage.  In September, the eyes 

 6           of the golf world will be upon Bethpage State 

 7           Park.  Twenty-four of the top golfers in the 

 8           world, from Europe and the United States, 

 9           will compete in the 2025 Ryder Cup.  More 

10           than a quarter-million fans will attend.  

11                  And in 2026, we join the nation in 

12           commemorating the 250th anniversary of the 

13           American Revolution.  As cochair of 

14           New York's 250th Commemoration Commission, we 

15           are committed to a commemorative experience 

16           that is both educational and inspiring.  And 

17           we will do this by engaging all New Yorkers, 

18           from students to community members, in this 

19           exciting celebration.  

20                  And we will, most importantly, achieve 

21           this by embracing the agency's Our Whole 

22           History initiative, which ensures diverse 

23           perspectives and inclusive storytelling are 

24           at the forefront of our efforts.  


                                                                   31

 1                  In closing, throughout our agency's 

 2           history we've helped New Yorkers meet the 

 3           challenges of the day, whether supporting our 

 4           troops during World War II or creating 

 5           affordable recreational opportunities for the 

 6           Baby Boom generation.  We are meeting today's 

 7           needs for connecting people in an age of 

 8           division and fragmentation, fortifying our 

 9           properties against climate change, and giving 

10           New Yorkers affordable ways to improve their 

11           physical and mental well-being.  

12                  I truly have valued the time that we 

13           have spent together over the last year in 

14           promoting and celebrating the benefits of our 

15           great parks system to our communities.  Our 

16           centennial year was a time to certainly 

17           reflect on our past, to concentrate on the 

18           mission ahead, but more importantly grasp the 

19           current moment, one which our successors, I 

20           truly believe, will look at us -- maybe at 

21           the bicentennial -- and really proclaim this 

22           era as one of the most important eras in the 

23           history of state parks.  

24                  So for this we are grateful.  We are 


                                                                   32

 1           grateful to the Governor, we are grateful to 

 2           each of you, we are grateful to the 88-plus 

 3           million and our partners.  Thank you for the 

 4           opportunity today, and I most welcome 

 5           additional conversation to discuss this great 

 6           state park system. 

 7                  Thank you.  

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

 9           much.  

10                  Our first questioner will be Michelle 

11           Hinchey, chair of the Agriculture Committee.  

12           Ten minutes.

13                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you very much, 

14           Senator Krueger.  

15                  And thank you both so much for being 

16           here and for your testimony.  There's lots of 

17           exciting things going on in both sectors, so 

18           thank you for your leadership.  

19                  Commissioner Ball, no surprise, I'm 

20           going to start with you.  And I want to thank 

21           you personally -- who knew -- I want to thank 

22           you personally for your work as commissioner.  

23           I think we in New York State are very lucky 

24           to have you at the helm, and appreciate all 


                                                                   33

 1           of the work that you do and your leadership 

 2           in our ag space.  Because as you know better 

 3           than anyone, New York is an ag state.  And so 

 4           we have to do everything we can to protect 

 5           our farmers and support farm businesses, 

 6           because this is the future of our food 

 7           production in our country.  And so thank you 

 8           for your leadership in that.

 9                  I'd like to start with one of 

10           everyone's favorite topics, which is school 

11           food.  And we're here to sing.  We're very 

12           excited to see in the Governor's budget her 

13           inclusion of universal school meals.  But of 

14           course we would love to ensure that all of 

15           the food that our students are eating is not 

16           only healthy farm-fresh food but locally 

17           grown New York farm-fresh food.  We have the 

18           school food program, but right now the 

19           reimbursement really only covers lunch, the 

20           30 percent threshold program.  

21                  I would love to hear from you, if we 

22           were to include breakfast in that program and 

23           expand the reimbursement rate to 25 cents, 

24           what would that mean for our growers and 


                                                                   34

 1           farmers across the state, and what would it 

 2           mean for access to healthy food?  

 3                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

 4           thank you, Senator, for that question.  

 5           That's a big question.  But certainly 

 6           universal school meals I think is a very 

 7           exciting opportunity for New York farmers and 

 8           for New York children.  

 9                  You know, for so many years in our 

10           schools we basically said to local school 

11           boards and cafeteria nutrition people:  Break 

12           even on the school lunch program.  Let's see 

13           if we can feed our kids lunch at $1.74.  And 

14           I think we have to change that philosophy and 

15           discussion to a value-based one.  When you or 

16           I buy a pair of shoes, buy a shirt, buy a 

17           car, whatever, we make a value-based 

18           decision.  We look at the price, we look at 

19           the quality, and we make a decision.  But for 

20           so many years, when it came to feeding our 

21           children, we made an economic decision.

22                  And I think, you know, the school food 

23           program with the 30 percent initiative for 

24           lunch really helped move the dime a little 


                                                                   35

 1           bit, if you'll pardon the pun, and we allowed 

 2           schools to get reimbursed from 5.9 cents, 

 3           where it had been for probably 40 years, up 

 4           to 25 cents.  That was a great effort, and 

 5           we're seeing great success there.  

 6                  I think including breakfast, I think 

 7           we have to put our eye on the ball, which is 

 8           really let's figure out how to feed New York 

 9           kids New York food.  It's going to be higher 

10           nutrition, it's going to be better economic 

11           outcomes.  I know the Commissioner of Health 

12           will say we're going to get better health 

13           outcomes five years, 10 years, 15 years down 

14           the road.  As a farmer, I know we're going to 

15           see better economic outcomes in our rural 

16           communities when we feed kids with local 

17           stuff.  

18                  You couple that with the Governor's 

19           Executive Order 32 to get the state to do the 

20           same thing.  Let's make sure in New York 

21           State that our -- as a state, across all our 

22           agencies and our purchasers, that we're using 

23           30 percent New York products that we buy.  

24           We're off to a great start there.  


                                                                   36

 1                  So I think between, you know, thinking 

 2           about breakfast, between thinking about 

 3           universal school meals, I think this is a 

 4           tremendous opportunity for our farmers in 

 5           New York State.

 6                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you.  Yeah, we 

 7           know healthy food is a form of medicine, 

 8           right, and so we can actually -- it's a type 

 9           of preventative care if we can make sure that 

10           we're eating good nutrients, and that is from 

11           our New York farmers.  We can also save a lot 

12           of money on the back end, not to mention from 

13           an administrative perspective, schools don't 

14           buy apples for lunch and a different set of 

15           apples for breakfast, right?  You just buy 

16           apples and you put them out.  And so having 

17           to track that closely is really difficult.  

18           So expanding breakfast I think would be a 

19           great thing to do.

20                  Switching gears slightly, hemp 

21           processing.  You know, you and I have talked 

22           about this.  I think hemp is an incredible 

23           opportunity in New York.  Especially from a 

24           building material, from a clothing material, 


                                                                   37

 1           from a green perspective, there's so much 

 2           opportunity there.  Last year, you know, 

 3           we've been advocating for funding, 

 4           specifically infrastructure funding, for hemp 

 5           processing.  Because we have the growers who 

 6           have grown it, we know what it could be, but 

 7           that middle area of the manufacturing and 

 8           processing is really difficult and, quite 

 9           frankly, really expensive.  

10                  So it was great to see in the 

11           Governor's budget last year $5 million for 

12           hemp processing, I believe it was 

13           specifically cited for Geneva.  I don't see 

14           it in the Governor's budget this year, so I'm 

15           curious where that stands and what the 

16           appetite is for an additional facility.  

17           Because New York is a big state.  We have 

18           lots of growers, and one facility just in the 

19           center may be difficult.

20                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  

21           Right.  Well, we're just, frankly, in the 

22           process of getting that up and running, that 

23           $5 million from last year.  And that 

24           appropriation went to Cornell University to 


                                                                   38

 1           help with the equipment and the techniques, 

 2           the technical expertise that's going to be 

 3           needed to explode that business.

 4                  Hemp has about 2,000 uses, which is 

 5           mind-blowing.  And New York -- the entire 

 6           United States -- has amnesia about what we 

 7           used to do with hemp.  We used to be a 

 8           leading producer of hemp in the world.  You 

 9           know, and we threw that out so many years 

10           ago; we've got to relearn a lot of things.  

11                  But I'm happy to say that at Cornell 

12           we now have New York varieties, we've got 

13           this capacity coming on here.  And I would 

14           just add we have a very energetic Hemp and 

15           Fiber Work Group.  They're not shy.  They're 

16           full of ideas.  We meet fairly regularly at 

17           the Department of Ag.  So I think we're still 

18           getting ready to capitalize on that 

19           investment from last year, which is why we 

20           have the budget we have this year.

21                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Great.  Thank you so 

22           much.  

23                  The Farm Overtime Tax Credit.  We had 

24           a bill last year that would have included 


                                                                   39

 1           dairy farms, to make it easier for them to 

 2           utilize the tax credit that we have set up.  

 3           The Governor unfortunately vetoed our bill, 

 4           citing that it needed to be done in the 

 5           budget.  I don't see that in this budget 

 6           proposal.  Is there a work -- is there 

 7           something that we can work on for the budget 

 8           this year to make sure that we can get that 

 9           done for our dairy farmers?  

10                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yes, 

11           thank you.  That was a -- there were some 

12           challenges with the way the Overtime Tax 

13           Credit had been written that affected 

14           different farms in different ways.  And the 

15           Governor was hoping to get that done in the 

16           budget.

17                  We are still meeting with Tax and 

18           Finance as a department, and we also are 

19           meeting with the industry.  We have sole 

20           proprietors, we have partnerships, we have 

21           LLCs, we have C Corps, S Corps.  We have 

22           management companies on our farms.  And we 

23           need to come up with the specific language 

24           that will work.  The Governor charged both of 


                                                                   40

 1           us, the Tax and Finance and Department of Ag, 

 2           to come up with an answer here.  We've been 

 3           working on that pretty hot and heavy 

 4           recently.  Hopefully we're going to have 

 5           something for you very shortly, to just 

 6           fine-tune that language a little bit and get 

 7           it right so it works for all farmers.

 8                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Great.  Thank you.  

 9           I would love to see that in the 30-day 

10           amendments.  It's something I think we need 

11           to get done in the budget this year.

12                  Grants for farmland preservation.  As 

13           we started with, New York is an ag state, and 

14           it's incredibly important that we protect our 

15           farmland.  I see that there's new language 

16           around planning for grants, but I haven't 

17           seen necessarily additional dollars.  As you 

18           know, we're still having challenges 

19           specifically with solar developments being 

20           centered on farmland.  I'd love to hear, do 

21           you think we're doing enough in farmland 

22           preservation, and can we do more?

23                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  I 

24           think we're in a great place.  We went over 


                                                                   41

 1           100,000 acres preserved last year.  I mean, 

 2           that still leaves a tremendous amount of 

 3           acres that's not protected.  But we've had a 

 4           commitment of in the neighborhood between 

 5           18 and 21 million dollars a year for the last 

 6           almost 10 years, which really brought 

 7           New York kind of up to pace.  Working through 

 8           the Regional Economic Development areas, 

 9           refining it from an RFP process to an RFA 

10           process, we've been able to move much more 

11           quickly in finding land, helping those 

12           easements happen, and getting farm families 

13           protected.

14                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  But more money for 

15           farmland preservation would be helpful.

16                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  

17           Excuse me?

18                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  More money for more 

19           farmland preservation would be helpful.

20                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

21           I'm optimistic, yeah.  And obviously we're 

22           going to see some assistance there in the 

23           bond act funding coming to fruition.  You 

24           know, we're involved in those conversations 


                                                                   42

 1           as well.  

 2                  So I feel pretty good about where we 

 3           are.  I think where we see some needs is in 

 4           the capacity in local land trusts to be able 

 5           to handle the influx.  We've gotten good as a 

 6           department at getting these programs in and 

 7           out of the door pretty quickly.  We meet with 

 8           the partners on a regular basis.  But now 

 9           we're seeing there's a little bit of a holdup 

10           when it comes to the individual land trusts 

11           around the state being able to handle the 

12           workload.  So you'll see some help in there.

13                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you.  And I 

14           know my time is short; I guess this is a 

15           bigger question.  But as shortly as you 

16           possibly can, lots of changes happening at 

17           the federal level.  And we're going to see 

18           some loss of dollars, we imagine specifically 

19           in some of the programs you've seen.  Can you 

20           talk a little bit about what USDA funding 

21           means for us?  

22                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

23           I think it's fair to say we can expect some 

24           changes.  For the Department of Ag and 


                                                                   43

 1           Markets, about $103 million flows from the 

 2           federal government to the Department of 

 3           Agriculture, mostly from USDA, some from FDA. 

 4                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  I'll come back to 

 5           you.

 6                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Okay.  

 7           Thank you.  

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you. 

 9                  Assembly.

10                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  (Mic off.)  

11           Assemblywoman Donna Lupardo.  

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Thank you, 

13           Chair.  I can pick right back up where 

14           Senator Hinchey left off.  

15                  But first, thank you all for being 

16           here.  As you know, we're looking at the 

17           budget, very happy to see some new items.  

18           Very pleased with the support for the Cornell 

19           Ruminant Center, Cornell 4-H, the Senior 

20           Farmers' Market Program.  Of course 

21           disappointed that more items weren't put 

22           on-budget, but this is an ongoing discussion 

23           we have year after year.  We will do our best 

24           to make as many restorations as we can.  We 


                                                                   44

 1           just want to make that very clear.  

 2                  I'm concerned about the Climate-Smart 

 3           Commodities Program and what we're hearing 

 4           about climate-smart farming and marketing in 

 5           general.  If you could speak on that, what we 

 6           can expect in terms of loss of funding -- I 

 7           know it's been put on pause -- but also the 

 8           effect on our soil health work.  Because the 

 9           work that we are doing on soil health and 

10           climate resiliency is very important, and it 

11           has had widespread support across the board.  

12           And I would hate to see our soil health work 

13           be impacted by these cuts.

14                  So if you could tell us a little bit 

15           about what's happening on Climate-Smart.  I 

16           realize, you know, all things climate are 

17           under the microscope, but some things are 

18           just foundational to the work that we're 

19           doing on -- for agriculture.  

20                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah.  

21           Well, thanks for that question.

22                  Again, there's more unknown than known 

23           at this point.  You know, the new 

24           administration is still filling out personnel 


                                                                   45

 1           and hearings are happening for leadership at 

 2           USDA and FDA.  

 3                  I will say that the Climate-Smart 

 4           Commodities Program, which was a project 

 5           between DEC, Ag & Markets, Cornell University 

 6           and SUNY ESF -- it's about a $60 million 

 7           project for New York State -- has been paused 

 8           by the government in Washington.  That 

 9           doesn't mean it's canceled.  I don't know 

10           other than it's paused.

11                  It's a concern because this was a good 

12           effort.  I will say --

13                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  I'm sorry, 

14           Commissioner, could you repeat the name of 

15           the program that's on pause?

16                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  

17           Climate-Smart Commodities.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Oh, you're 

19           still on that, okay.

20                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah.  

21           And we applied for that some three years ago 

22           with our partners at DEC, SUNY ESF and 

23           Cornell.  Great program.  Some funding has 

24           been out there to research how better to 


                                                                   46

 1           achieve that on our farms and in our 

 2           research.  

 3                  So we know that's been paused.  But 

 4           again, we're waiting to see, you know, who 

 5           are going to be the people we deal with in 

 6           Washington, who's going to occupy those posts 

 7           at USDA.  

 8                  I will say that I'm encouraged.  I 

 9           know three commissioners who are taking 

10           under-secretary positions who are personal 

11           friends, so I think we'll have an avenue 

12           there.  But we've got to let the dust settle 

13           here and just figure out what will continue 

14           to be funded and what may be cut or culled 

15           back.

16                  I am encouraged that in New York we 

17           have decades of progress on environmental 

18           issues.  We've been looking at water quality 

19           and air quality on our farms for decades.  

20           And the programs we have, supported by this 

21           Governor, supported -- the Climate-Resilient 

22           Farming Program, which is a New York program 

23           completely.  Our work with NRDC and our work 

24           with our Soil and Water Conservation 


                                                                   47

 1           Districts is very strong.  We've got a great 

 2           tradition, and it will be able to keep going 

 3           here in New York State.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Thank you, 

 5           Commissioner.

 6                  A sensitive topic that I'm weighing 

 7           into carefully; you and I and most of us in 

 8           this room have discussed workforce shortages 

 9           on our farms.  How concerned are you about 

10           what we're beginning to see in the country at 

11           the moment regarding New York farms and their 

12           preparedness to keep their operations going?

13                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  You 

14           know, probably if someone asked me what was 

15           the most limiting factor to growing New York 

16           agriculture, I would say labor supply.  We've 

17           seen that happening over a period of decades, 

18           frankly, and we saw it really accelerate 

19           after COVID-19.  We'll be watching very 

20           closely the concerns around immigration that 

21           we're hearing.

22                  In the prior administration, this 

23           president took a strong stance on 

24           immigration.  I would say that for New York 


                                                                   48

 1           as a farmer, as a farmworker when I was 

 2           20 years old, that limiting factor is pretty 

 3           strong.  We know that somewheres in New York 

 4           between 40 and 50 percent of our farmworkers, 

 5           construction workers, restaurant workers, 

 6           daycare workers do not have proper 

 7           documentation, so this is a concern.  

 8                  We saw back in that first 

 9           administration a 270 percent increase in 

10           ICE activity and border patrol raids on 

11           New York farms.  And that was a very 

12           difficult time for New York agriculture, 

13           particularly dairy.  

14                  So we're watching this very closely; 

15           you know, how does this play out?  We know 

16           that we have some raids happening over the 

17           weekend in Western New York.  I don't know 

18           the facts yet, but we're going to watch this 

19           very closely.  

20                  I would just say that this has been -- 

21           the availability of a legal guest worker 

22           program has not been thoughtfully addressed 

23           since Ronald Reagan was president.  It's been 

24           decades of being kicked down the road.  We do 


                                                                   49

 1           need an answer here.  We do need to have a 

 2           legal workforce.  Agriculture wants one.  But 

 3           we know that a high percentage of the workers 

 4           that are currently here doing work on 

 5           agriculture and construction and restaurants 

 6           do not have proper documentation.  That needs 

 7           to be addressed.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Thank you.  

 9           It's somewhat frustrating when so many people 

10           are unaware that these workers are by and 

11           large law-abiding, tax-paying folks who are 

12           supporting our communities in a very 

13           important way.  

14                  And so I'm very worried about our 

15           ability to maintain a strong agricultural 

16           economy in New York State in light of this.  

17           So hopefully we can stay in close contact 

18           with all of us to figure out what we can do 

19           in response.

20                  I know that some of my colleagues here 

21           are going to raise the issue of avian flu 

22           because there's a serious concern right now 

23           across the state, but certainly down in 

24           Suffolk County as a result of this duck farm.  


                                                                   50

 1           I don't want to take away from my colleagues, 

 2           but because I have probably a little more 

 3           time than they do, I was wondering if you 

 4           could give the big picture on avian flu.  And 

 5           are we -- do we have enough resources in this 

 6           budget to address the concerns?  

 7                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

 8           thank you for that.  

 9                  Yeah, we've got two things around 

10           avian flu that are worrisome.  You know, one 

11           is the dairy, you know, the fact that 

12           high-path AI has jumped from poultry and 

13           wildfowl to dairy animals.  We do not have 

14           that in New York State; it's confined 

15           currently to 17 states.  The only increases 

16           that we've seen recently in the last 30 days 

17           have been in Michigan and in California.  So 

18           we've successfully, through our emergency  

19           order process and the USDA, been able to thus 

20           far keep that out of New York.  So that's one 

21           issue.

22                  The traditional high-path AI, if there 

23           is such a thing, brought in by migratory 

24           birds, the last time we saw it here was in 


                                                                   51

 1           2022.  But as you know, it has reared its 

 2           head across the country again.  It's in the 

 3           migratory flyways, brought in by birds as 

 4           they migrate back to their summer grounds.  

 5           It's happening across the United States.  It 

 6           has hit us in Long Island.  We're looking at 

 7           two presumptives, one in the Hudson Valley 

 8           and another in Western New York.  

 9                  It's something we take very seriously, 

10           we identify very quickly.  We work very 

11           closely with USDA-APHIS on this.  And we're 

12           active on Long Island in dealing with the 

13           issue there.  

14                  It's life or death for poultry.  The 

15           only solution is depopulation and sanitation.  

16           There is indemnification in that from USDA, 

17           but obviously taking somebody out of business 

18           for a period of time is -- it's not a real 

19           big solution there.  

20                  So we work very closely with our 

21           partners at USDA.  We have one of the best, 

22           state bests in the country, Dr. Joy Bennett, 

23           who works for us at the department.  She's 

24           got a great team, a great staff.  And we have 


                                                                   52

 1           a very positive working relationship with 

 2           USDA-APHIS on that.  

 3                  So we're riding herd on it and paying 

 4           very close attention to it, but it is a 

 5           terrible situation for a poultry producer to 

 6           be in.  

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Yes, it is.  

 8           Thank you.  

 9                  I just have -- I'll have a couple of 

10           questions in a second, but a quick question 

11           for the Parks commissioner.  To what extent 

12           is your agency striving to meet our goal to 

13           have more New York-based, New York-sourced 

14           products available in your parks?  I have 

15           heard some concerns from some of our beverage 

16           producers on Long Island, for example, about 

17           their desire to have more access to the 

18           parks.  But I was just curious what your 

19           overall approach has been.

20                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

21           Yes, so certainly New York products are 

22           available in select state parks.  We've had 

23           active conversations to improve that at 

24           various destinations.  But also working with 


                                                                   53

 1           our concessionaires to mandate some level of 

 2           New York products in our parks.  Very 

 3           important to us.  And many conversations have 

 4           been had, at least certainly in the last 

 5           year, many years, as we increase the number 

 6           of parks that are holding New York products, 

 7           certainly.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Thank you.  

 9           Hopefully we can continue talking about this.

10                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

11           Looking forward to that, absolutely.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Thank you.  

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

14                  Senator Serrano, chair of Parks and -- 

15           sorry, Historic Districts.  I always get that 

16           wrong, I apologize.  Say your full name here.

17                  SENATOR SERRANO:  Thank you.  Senator 

18           Jose M. Serrano here.  

19                  As chair of Parks, I will direct my 

20           questions to Commissioner Pro Tem Randy 

21           Simons.  It's good to see you.  It's good to 

22           be here with all of my colleagues talking 

23           about the importance of our state parks 

24           system.  I really enjoyed our meetings over 


                                                                   54

 1           the summer during -- and actually throughout 

 2           the 2024 centennial for our state parks 

 3           system.  

 4                  And it really, I think, gave us a 

 5           moment to pause and think about how important 

 6           our parks and green spaces are to our 

 7           everyday lives.  I myself, as a user of state 

 8           parks, believe wholeheartedly that they are 

 9           transformational, that they provide things 

10           that are important for our mental health, our 

11           physical well-being, and for society as a 

12           whole.  It makes us less stratified as a 

13           community.  

14                  Over the years, my wife and I raising 

15           two children, as you know, we try whenever we 

16           can to be in a state park.  And I did teach 

17           my son, who's in college now, but I remember 

18           teaching him how to swim at Bear Mountain 

19           Pool, which is indeed one of the most 

20           historic pools in your system.  

21                  And, you know, when you visit a state 

22           park, you see how important they are, but you 

23           also notice that they've been around for a 

24           while and that there's always need for work, 


                                                                   55

 1           infrastructure, what you can see, what you 

 2           can't see.  

 3                  But again, I always turn back to the 

 4           importance and the necessity of connecting 

 5           more and more communities to parks, giving 

 6           folks throughout New York an understanding 

 7           that the parks are for them -- that hiking is 

 8           for them, that camping is for them, trying 

 9           new things like that, all of the facilities 

10           that are available.

11                  So in your testimony you mentioned 

12           NY BRICKS and NY PLAYS, which I'm assuming 

13           are geared towards expanding folks' 

14           interactions with parks.  So can you talk a 

15           little bit more about the efforts that you 

16           have to connect more people to parks?

17                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

18           And that's the very mission of this 

19           initiative, right?  You know, in a digital 

20           world, the more we are connected to each 

21           other, the more we are really disconnected in 

22           many cases from relationships with one 

23           another.

24                  Under Unplug and Play, NY SWIMS 


                                                                   56

 1           certainly, you know, last year we did 

 2           $150 million, our grant program, and it was 

 3           grants to municipalities to improve swim  

 4           infrastructure, elevate the idea of perhaps 

 5           building new or repair or refurbishing swim 

 6           infrastructure, for the very important reason 

 7           of a sense of pride and accomplishment among 

 8           particularly our youth.  

 9                  Mindful -- we celebrated Graduation 

10           Day at one of those programs in the Bronx -- 

11           you were with us at Bear Mountain -- and a 

12           7-year-old little girl came up to me and 

13           said, "I didn't think I would ever learn how 

14           to swim.  I thought that was for other 

15           people."  And it was this program that 

16           brought that opportunity to her community.

17                  And very much like NY PLAYS, right, 

18           it's now the very same thing, but we are 

19           giving grants to municipalities to invest in 

20           playgrounds, giving families, giving parents 

21           and children opportunities to say, You know 

22           what, life is not on a device, life is, you 

23           know, outdoors.  

24                  And BRICKS the same way:  Community 


                                                                   57

 1           centers, true community engagement, true 

 2           community connection.  

 3                  And, you know, our parks, we're 

 4           expansive, we're all across New York State, 

 5           more than 250 properties.  But by providing 

 6           grants to municipalities, this almost assures 

 7           the opportunity that no matter where you 

 8           live, within a stone's throw there's an 

 9           opportunity to take advantage of this 

10           historic investment into the outdoors, into 

11           parks.  

12                  We're particularly proud of the 

13           successes of NY SWIMS, and in the second 

14           round -- we're looking forward to the second 

15           round -- we'll open up also to 

16           not-for-profits.  And we think PLAYS and 

17           BRICKS will do the very same thing.

18                  SENATOR SERRANO:  Thank you, 

19           Commissioner Pro Tem.

20                  Next I want to talk a little bit about 

21           the flagship parks throughout the State of 

22           New York.  You mentioned 88 million visitors 

23           in 2024.  Year over year, we're seeing 

24           increased visitorship, and that's wonderful.  


                                                                   58

 1           But the parks then take a lot of use.  During 

 2           the pandemic we saw that our parks were our 

 3           refuge, they were -- and brilliant that Parks 

 4           kept them open.  During the darkest days of 

 5           the pandemic, the parks became the place that 

 6           we went to to recreate, to be with our 

 7           families, to still build memories in a very 

 8           dark time.

 9                  So when I think about -- as a 

10           New Yorker, born and raised in the 

11           South Bronx, going to Lake Welch was a 

12           wonderful afternoon on a Sunday if you could 

13           do it.  Getting up to Harriman State Park, 

14           the hiking trails and so on and so forth.

15                  What are we doing to keep up with the 

16           capital projects in these places, with 

17           Sebago, to ensure that Lake Welch is not 

18           overpacked?  Do you have Sebago up and 

19           running?  And also ensuring that we're 

20           teaching our park patrons to be stewards of 

21           the parks.  Because with increased usership, 

22           we want to make sure they remain clean and 

23           accessible for all.  What are we doing to 

24           increase stewardship?


                                                                   59

 1                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 2           You know, I think the centennial was -- came 

 3           at just the right time, a historic investment 

 4           in our parks.  It is truly great to see.  It 

 5           is much-needed.  We sort of -- and I don't 

 6           know if it's returning, but it's more of a 

 7           focus on the core needs of our parks, right?

 8                  You know, the safety of the public, 

 9           projects that you come to expect are just 

10           going to be done, right?  You know, the roads 

11           and the parking lots and, you know, the parks 

12           are taken care of.  At 200 million, we think 

13           that we can properly provide the TLC to these 

14           parks.

15                  But put the investment aside, and we 

16           need -- we need people, right?  Our people 

17           truly -- you know, you hear the old adage 

18           that some might be, you know, a Jack or Jill 

19           of all trades but a master of none.  Our team 

20           is truly a master of many trades in our 

21           system.  But they can't do it alone.  It 

22           takes, you know, incredible partnerships.  

23           We're fortunate to have incredible 

24           partnerships across the state, from the OSIs 


                                                                   60

 1           and the Parks & Trails and the Scenic 

 2           Hudsons -- but our volunteer groups, 85 

 3           strong.  We just welcomed them all out 

 4           together in October to get them together to 

 5           really advocate and talk about more where the 

 6           shared mission can align.

 7                  And I think, you know, from 

 8           post-pandemic, I think no longer it is a 

 9           talking point of what parks mean in their 

10           communities to the physical and mental 

11           wellness.  I think many just now wake up and 

12           say, They mean a lot in my community and I 

13           need to now find time on my own personal 

14           calendar to ensure that I'm doing my part to 

15           help maintain them.  I Love My Park Day, 

16           first Saturday every May, is a good start to 

17           that.  And we've incorporated sort of those 

18           mini I Love My Park Days in different regions 

19           to further improve the stewardship across our 

20           system.

21                  SENATOR SERRANO:  Thank you, 

22           Commissioner Pro Tem.

23                  My final question has to do with the 

24           state of our lakes.  I love swimming in 


                                                                   61

 1           lakes, I think it's a wonderful thing if we 

 2           could do it.  But I know over the last couple 

 3           of years you've been dealing with algal 

 4           blooms in a number of lakes.  A lot of 

 5           conditions probably out of your control, 

 6           climate change and other things.

 7                  But I just wanted to know, have we 

 8           started to get a good handle on these?  Will 

 9           we see all of our lakes open this summer 

10           despite the potential for algal blooms?

11                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

12           And Lake Welch is the perfect example of 

13           that.  You know, two years ago we had a 

14           harmful algal bloom that basically shut down 

15           swim season at our largest public bathing 

16           beach in our state for a community that 

17           didn't have many other options to cool in the 

18           summer.

19                  So we're looking at different projects 

20           and we're looking at new technologies.  I'm 

21           particularly proud of the technology that we 

22           instituted at Lake Welch, we're pioneering 

23           some technology to see if this is, if not a 

24           solution, it can be part of a solution to, 


                                                                   62

 1           you know, lessening the impact of these 

 2           blooms that are showing up in many cases in 

 3           spaces that they never showed up before.  We 

 4           pioneered some solar technology at Lake 

 5           Welch, and we went from being closed for 

 6           almost the entire summer to being closed just 

 7           two days the following year.

 8                  Is that the solution?  More data is 

 9           needed.  But we're working with DEC and our 

10           partners, you know, at ESF to formalize, you 

11           know, some of the data to see if these are 

12           solutions.  And when you look at, you know, 

13           the Sebagos, looking at projects that will 

14           lessen the burden on a Lake Welch -- which, 

15           believe it or not, you know, closes as soon 

16           as 8 a.m. on a summer weekend or weekday 

17           morning -- and be the other alternative to 

18           not be turned away but have another 

19           opportunity to seek a recreational experience 

20           nearby.

21                  SENATOR SERRANO:  Thank you so much, 

22           Commissioner Pro Tem.  Always a pleasure 

23           speaking with you.  And thank you for your 

24           responses.


                                                                   63

 1                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 2           Thank you.

 3                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 4                  Assembly.

 5                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  (Mic off.) 

 6           Assemblymember Ron Kim.

 7                  Before I go, I just want to say that 

 8           we've been joined by Assemblymembers Stefani 

 9           Zinerman, Al Stirpe, and Tommy John 

10           Schiavoni.

11                  Mr. Kim?

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  Thank you, Chairman.  

13           And congratulations on your new role as chair 

14           of the Ways and Means Committee.  We look 

15           forward to a successful budget season.

16                  And Commissioner, thank you so much 

17           for your testimony today.  I look forward to 

18           your partnership, as well as with 

19           Senator Serrano in the coming months as well.  

20           Thank you.

21                  Let me start off by just focusing on 

22           some of the capacity issues at the state 

23           parks.  And with the tremendous demand, I 

24           would imagine we have capacity issues to 


                                                                   64

 1           continue to protect and strengthen our parks.  

 2                  Last year there were 79 additional 

 3           staff positions, full-time positions, in the 

 4           enacted budget.  Have you been able to fill 

 5           all those 79 positions?

 6                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 7           Yes.  And on the record here, even more so.  

 8           I mean, we're very fortunate that people want 

 9           to work at Parks and we can find the people 

10           for these positions.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  Great.  And you 

12           mentioned the 50 Parks Police officers.  Last 

13           year I believe we added -- we added 30 for 

14           State Police, so I'm assuming you hired more 

15           than 30.  What is the current size of the 

16           Parks Police right now?  

17                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

18           The current size of the Park Police -- so we 

19           were very fortunate for the first time ever, 

20           under the Governor, we held two academies.  

21           We just graduated the second one, and in a 

22           year's span, on January 3rd.  

23                  The current size is 243.  And we 

24           expect, you know, the attrition rate by 


                                                                   65

 1           October of this year will probably drop us to 

 2           235, which is still a pretty confident 

 3           number.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  And is it 

 5           sufficient, or do we need to continue to 

 6           grow?

 7                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  We 

 8           continue to assess the public safety, 

 9           obviously, between Park Police -- we think at 

10           this moment it is a sufficient size.  But 

11           certainly working toward what is a number, 

12           we're trying to gather data to identify that 

13           force strength that is suitable for the 

14           Park Police.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  And you also 

16           mentioned in your testimony the Ryder Cup.  I 

17           think that's on a lot of people's minds.  You 

18           know, the golf course at Bethpage State Park 

19           will host the Ryder Cup in 2025.  What's the 

20           status of the projects to prepare for the 

21           Ryder Cup?  And how much have you spent on 

22           this effort so far?

23                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

24           You know, we're already marketing and 


                                                                   66

 1           promoting the Ryder Cup, and the PGA of 

 2           America has already touted this as what will 

 3           be the most significant golf event in the 

 4           history of golf, which is a pretty heavy 

 5           statement, and one we're prepared -- mass 

 6           gatherings are no stranger to us.  We excel 

 7           in this manner, from the air shows and, you 

 8           know, the concert venues that we have.  

 9                  A lot of -- a majority of the projects 

10           will kick off in August of this year to start 

11           building out that infrastructure.  And it was 

12           a partnership, an agreement with the PGA.  

13           But we invested only a couple of million into 

14           these efforts, with the PGA picking up a lot 

15           of the other costs.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  Got it.

17                  And is New York being compensated for 

18           hosting the Ryder Cup?

19                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  We 

20           have a deal with the Ryder Cup.  We take a 

21           percentage of like hospitality profits, and 

22           we get sort of base fee for hosting the 

23           Ryder Cup.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  What's the base fee?


                                                                   67

 1                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 2           The base fee I want to say is two and a half 

 3           -- or 4 million, somewhere in that range.  I 

 4           can get that accurate number for you, though.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  Okay, great, thank 

 6           you.

 7                  So according to New York Parks & 

 8           Trails -- and this kind of continues on in my 

 9           line of questioning about the Ryder Cup -- 

10           for every $1 million we invest in New York 

11           State's parks system, we generate up to 

12           $21 million in economic benefits in sales, 

13           labor income, state GDP.  That's a 

14           2100 percent return, or 21X, on ROI.  That's 

15           crazy.  That's insane how much money we get 

16           back.

17                  Do you have a rough breakdown, a rough 

18           estimate on how much of the return in 

19           revenues is based on in-state consumers and 

20           visitors versus out-of-state visitors?

21                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  A 

22           majority of our visitation is in-state.  I 

23           can work with the team to identify like a 

24           closer breakdown to those numbers.


                                                                   68

 1                  When we look at the breakdown 

 2           certainly, you know, look at our top revenue 

 3           generators, VUF, as we call it, which is 

 4           really the entry fee, the vehicle use fee, is 

 5           really our top revenue generator.  Camping, 

 6           concessions and golf all round out like the 

 7           top four.  But certainly we can score some of 

 8           the information you're looking for, 

 9           particularly amongst the top four revenue 

10           generators where that data might be 

11           accessible, yes.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  Great, got it.

13                  Do you have any qualitative data on 

14           what drives out-of-state visitors to spend 

15           time and money at our state parks?  You kind 

16           of touched on it, but based on things like do 

17           you do any feedback, any surveys of people 

18           who visit to get a sense of why they're 

19           driven to come drive so many hours to come to 

20           our state?

21                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

22           Yeah, we -- you know, working with our 

23           partners last year we actually did a number 

24           of studies within our parks to learn more.  


                                                                   69

 1           You know, because one of the things that we 

 2           want to do is not only, A, identify some of 

 3           the data why people are coming to our parks, 

 4           but once we acquire that data, what are we 

 5           going to do with that data?  You know, you 

 6           just don't want it to sit off to the side and 

 7           just be there.  We want to be able to take it 

 8           and provide value and shape sort of the 

 9           direction we want to go.

10                  We launched our biggest marketing 

11           campaign in the agency's history last year 

12           with the centennial.  And when you look at 

13           parks, in many ways they're personal.  Some 

14           are local destinations, some are regional 

15           destinations, and some are international -- 

16           you know, national and international 

17           destinations.  You know, for instance, like 

18           Niagara Falls, right?  What drives that is 

19           the grandeur of Niagara Falls.

20                  But I think when you look at, you 

21           know, the Long Island parks, it's the 

22           beaches.  Thousand Islands, it's that lake 

23           experience.  Just some of the things that 

24           drive people to take -- and I think people 


                                                                   70

 1           are certainly looking for affordability, and 

 2           I think when you look at affordability you 

 3           look at a three- or four-day weekend, you 

 4           know, in a trek through New York State, and 

 5           it really is incredible the diverse 

 6           experience and landscapes that we have going 

 7           from one region to another, some of which 

 8           we've heard back that, you know, I can't 

 9           believe I'm still in the same state, based on 

10           this three-day trip I took from perhaps 

11           Long Island out to Western New York.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  You know, I mean, so 

13           state parks have an impact on hospitality -- 

14           hotels, restaurants and all those concessions 

15           and vendors.  But do we -- do state parks 

16           generate revenue directly from fees and sales 

17           that they charge inside the parks?  Like is 

18           there -- about how much do we generate a year 

19           based on fees?

20                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  On 

21           revenue generation?  About 136 million, you 

22           know, based on certainly the top four revenue 

23           generators.  And we have some minor revenue 

24           generators under there.  But that's sort of 


                                                                   71

 1           about the amount that we pull in.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  And is the Governor 

 3           planning to continue to waive fees on state 

 4           swimming pools for the next cycle or season 

 5           as well?

 6                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 7           You know, and that's a discussion that is 

 8           soon to be had.  I think you certainly -- you 

 9           have to -- I'd be most interested in looking 

10           at the balance of revenue generation.  But 

11           also accessibility, particularly for 

12           communities that are typically underserved or 

13           disadvantaged communities.

14                  So, you know, we are proud that we 

15           partnered and we received that revenue back 

16           in this year's budget for the fee waiver at 

17           the swimming pools next year.  But with the 

18           double down on NY SWIMS, it's a discussion 

19           that I'm happy to have with you, but we 

20           expect to have to determine, you know, when 

21           and where is the right time to waive, you 

22           know, revenue generators, fees, but for the 

23           benefit of the physical and mental wellness 

24           of our communities.


                                                                   72

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  None of this is 

 2           financed based on those fees.  So in other 

 3           words, it's not bonded out based on those 

 4           fees, right?

 5                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 6           Correct.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  So this is something 

 8           that we can -- we have discretion over for 

 9           future --

10                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

11           Correct, we do.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  The 50 million for 

13           NY SWIMS that's been proposed this year, is 

14           this new round of funding identical to the -- 

15           to last in terms of the parameters, the 

16           program parameters?

17                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

18           Right, so last year it was a $150 million 

19           program.  This year it's 50.  It's the same 

20           parameters, although this year we're 

21           including not-for-profits as eligible 

22           candidates to come in, maybe work with a 

23           municipality.  But opening up to those 

24           organizations as well.


                                                                   73

 1                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  Got it.

 2                  And did the first round of NY SWIMS 

 3           award any floating pools?  And what are, 

 4           exactly, floating pools?

 5                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  We 

 6           have a -- we call it a crib pool, but it's a 

 7           floating-type pool that we're installing at 

 8           Sojourner Truth State Park.  

 9                  No, not to my knowledge in the first 

10           round were there any floating pools that 

11           municipalities had requested the funding for.  

12           I'll double confirm that.  But it was -- that 

13           was sort of an outlier.

14                  And I think what you saw with the 

15           first round of 150 million, and likely you'll 

16           see again, is many municipalities just needed 

17           a repair or refurbishment on existing 

18           infrastructure.  You heard a lot of stories 

19           of leaking X amount of thousands of gallons 

20           or hundreds of gallons a day in their local 

21           pools, and this aimed to repair that for 

22           them.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN KIM:  Great.  Thank you so 

24           much for your testimony today.  Just like the 


                                                                   74

 1           Senator, I'm raising my young three girls in 

 2           the state parks, and I've spent a lot of time 

 3           in upstate in the summertime, James Baird 

 4           State Park, one of our favorite places to go 

 5           and play some golf as well while the kids 

 6           play on the side.  So I know the economic -- 

 7           I've seen firsthand the economic impact these 

 8           facilities have in their community and 

 9           beyond.  

10                  So I look forward to working with you 

11           in the future.

12                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

13           Absolutely.  Thank you.

14                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

15                  Before we call the next Senator, I 

16           want to let people know that we were joined 

17           by Senator Nathalia Fernandez and 

18           Senator Shelley Mayer.  And I think we have 

19           some additional Assemblymembers.

20                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Yes, we do.  We've 

21           been joined by Assemblymembers Billy Jones 

22           and Paula Kay.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  And if I can 

24           acknowledge, Chair --


                                                                   75

 1                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Yes.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  We've also been 

 3           joined by Assemblywoman Mary Beth Walsh.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay.  So now 

 5           we're going to turn it to Senator Borrello, 

 6           five minutes, ranker on Agriculture.

 7                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Thank you, 

 8           Madam Chair.  

 9                  Thank you both for being here.  I 

10           appreciate it.  I want to direct my 

11           questions, as ranker on Ag, to 

12           Commissioner Ball.  And if I have any time 

13           left -- so ...

14                  But Commissioner, first of all, thank 

15           you for being here.  I particularly 

16           appreciate your experience as a farmer and an 

17           agribusiness owner and the impact that that 

18           has had, the positive impact that has had on 

19           your ability to oversee Ag & Markets.  I 

20           truly appreciate that.  And it's been a great 

21           help to the farmers that I represent in my 

22           district.

23                  My concerns -- I have a few, but my 

24           first concern is we have a lot of regulations 


                                                                   76

 1           that have a negative impact on farmers and 

 2           other small businesses.  Particularly right 

 3           now we're wrangling with these new wetland 

 4           regulations.  Now, wetland regulations have 

 5           been essentially redefining what is 

 6           considered a wetland, and that has had -- I'm 

 7           hearing this a lot from property owners 

 8           around our recreational lakes like 

 9           Chautauqua Lake.  

10                  I guess my question is, how do we 

11           balance those new I guess expanded wetland 

12           regulations against the needs of our farmers 

13           and our ability to have productive farmland.  

14           Because we're talking about, you know, new -- 

15           having to do new permits and potentially have 

16           an impact on the ability to build new 

17           structures within, you know, now newly 

18           designated wetland areas.

19                  So just curious if you had any 

20           thoughts on that.

21                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

22           sure.  You know, we work in the environment 

23           as farmers every day.  You know, so wetlands 

24           is a big concern.  In most cases in New York 


                                                                   77

 1           it's a national, a federal concern.  And 

 2           what's coming out of Washington with regards 

 3           to those regulations kind of moves and 

 4           changes, ebbs and flows, if you'll forgive 

 5           the pun there.

 6                  But I think that, you know, today I'm 

 7           happy to say that at the Department of 

 8           Agriculture we've never had a better 

 9           relationship with DEC in my history of 

10           farming in New York State.  So if we have a 

11           question, an issue about a wetlands and a 

12           delineation or anything of that sort, we're 

13           able to sit down and talk through it and 

14           figure out what the best outcome is for the 

15           farmer.

16                  Having said that, in our work again 

17           together with DEC when we look at those 

18           regulations and water and -- we've got 

19           decades of history working together on that, 

20           both with our CAFOs, our large dairy 

21           operations, nutrient management, et cetera.  

22           So we're actually in a pretty good place 

23           right now in New York with that regard.  

24           We'll wait to see if we'll see any big 


                                                                   78

 1           changes coming out of EPA in the near future.  

 2           I expect some changes.

 3                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Okay, thank you.

 4                  Yes, so I -- and I agree with the -- 

 5           your relationship with DEC has been 

 6           beneficial, particularly when we're looking 

 7           at, you know, the expansion of things like 

 8           Great Lakes Cheese, you know.  So I 

 9           appreciate the relationship that you have and 

10           the partnership so we can balance the 

11           environmental needs with the needs to 

12           maintain agribusinesses.

13                  So that being said, moving on to solar 

14           proliferation, I know we -- the chairwoman 

15           touched on that.  But, you know, I have many 

16           concerns still.  We have in Chautauqua 

17           County, in the Town of Ripley, 3,000 acres of 

18           farmland that is now going to be solar 

19           fields.  I'm concerned about, you know, 

20           runoff from those solar fields, as well as 

21           the fact that it's taking up valuable 

22           farmland.

23                  You know, we've got plenty of 

24           brownfields in New York State.  We've got 


                                                                   79

 1           closed landfill cells and everything else.  I 

 2           don't know why we have to take up, you know, 

 3           good farmland -- other than I know it's 

 4           easier and they make more money doing that, 

 5           more profit from that.

 6                  So with being said, agrivoltaics is 

 7           something that people keep talking about.  

 8           Right now, from what I can tell, all it is 

 9           is, you know, letting sheep graze under solar 

10           panels.  Can you tell me where we really are 

11           with agrivoltaics, and how we can use that as 

12           a complement, hopefully?

13                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah.  

14           Obviously we'd like to try to solve this and 

15           figure out how to make it work for everybody.  

16                  I think the -- we farm about 7 million 

17           acres of land in New York State.  And having 

18           just experienced a pandemic, I think we all 

19           recognize that New York better have a food 

20           system right here in the state; let's not 

21           depend on another country, another region for 

22           our food.  And so that farmland is even more 

23           important to us today than it's ever been.  

24                  So I think with that in mind, we need 


                                                                   80

 1           to look very carefully at solar.  We've been 

 2           able to work with our partners in energy at 

 3           NYSERDA, and we talk with the PSC and we've 

 4           been able to extract -- I shouldn't say 

 5           extract, but come to an agreement with an MOU 

 6           with NYSERDA to look at how do we avoid, 

 7           minimize or mitigate the impact of solar on 

 8           actively farmed land, in particular our top 

 9           four tiers of soil.

10                  So we're pursuing that.  We refine 

11           that on a regular basis.  But so many times 

12           it would be just as good to look down the 

13           road at that hundred acres that's not being 

14           actively farmed, that has rocks on it.  You 

15           know, not the actively farmed land.  So we'll 

16           continue to do that.

17                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Great, thank you.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

19                  Assembly.

20                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  The ranker on 

21           Agriculture, Assemblymember Tague.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  Thank you, 

23           Chairman.  

24                  And thank you, everybody.  And our 


                                                                   81

 1           guests that are here this morning, thank you 

 2           very much.  

 3                  My questions are going to be towards 

 4           the Commissioner of Agriculture, my neighbor, 

 5           Richard Ball. 

 6                  First of all, I just wanted to say 

 7           happy to see that we raised the Nourish NY 

 8           program.  We're not at 75 million yet, 

 9           Commissioner, but we're getting there.  And I 

10           appreciate that.

11                  One question I had, you mentioned 

12           during your statement some of the money 

13           that's being invested at the State 

14           Fairgrounds.  You had mentioned something 

15           about the dairy buildings.  But I was just 

16           wondering, are we revamping the sheep and 

17           goat barns as well at the State Fair?

18                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yes.  

19           Actually we've got -- the plans are at OGS 

20           right now.  They've been approved.  We're 

21           going to be acting on the Sheep and Wool 

22           Center at the fairgrounds.

23                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  Okay.  That's 

24           great.  Because they were in some pretty 


                                                                   82

 1           rough shape over the last few years, and it's 

 2           one of the complaints I get from mothers and 

 3           fathers of some of the young folks that show 

 4           at the fair.

 5                  The other thing I want to touch on, 

 6           and Senator Hinchey did as well, but I want 

 7           to talk about the Farm Laborers Fair Labor 

 8           Practices Act.  Has the department undertaken 

 9           any effort to study and/or alleviate some of 

10           the economic difficulties that this has 

11           caused?

12                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

13           we have the overtime tax credit that the 

14           Governor proposed a year ago now.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  Well, that's kind 

16           of my reasoning for asking that question, 

17           because all I hear from our farmers is that 

18           it's very confusing, it's not exactly what 

19           they thought it was going to be.

20                  So although the tax credit has been 

21           enacted to help offset the cost of this act, 

22           the big problem that I see is that it does 

23           not solve the front end.  You know, the cash 

24           flow issues increased, the increased labor 


                                                                   83

 1           and payroll costs.  So what else can we do?

 2                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

 3           I think we're looking forward to a solution 

 4           that's going to make it work for all farms 

 5           across the state regardless of their 

 6           management entity.

 7                  I would point out that we did have an 

 8           early release, farmers could apply to get an 

 9           early return on that in July.  And we put 

10           together a website that was very easy for a 

11           farm to access that, sign up for it.  I have 

12           to tell you, 63 farms took advantage of that, 

13           63 farms.  And they got their money within 

14           two weeks of it being approved by us and by 

15           Tax and Finance.  And about $1 million went 

16           out the door in September for those farms.

17                  It looks to me as though most farms 

18           are waiting till the end of the year, at tax 

19           time, to actually get their accounting in and 

20           get the overtime tax credit, the refundable 

21           tax credit back to them.  So I think we're 

22           still too early in the process to know the 

23           right answer to dial that in.  Initially we 

24           heard farms wanted to do it four times out of 


                                                                   84

 1           the year, they wanted it sooner.  But the 

 2           fact is, the middle of summer, we only had 

 3           63 farms ask for that.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  Well, I can 

 5           alleviate the whole problem.  We should have 

 6           just kept it the way it was.  That's -- you 

 7           and I can agree to disagree about that, but 

 8           we should have left it -- 73 percent of the 

 9           farmers in the State of New York were against 

10           moving to this new practice as well.

11                  But I'll move on.  I want to touch 

12           on -- how many farmers have come to you 

13           expressing a specific desire to install solar 

14           or wind energy products on their farmland?

15                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  About 

16           a handful.  The majority are not farmers who 

17           come to us with a proposal.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  How many 

19           developers would you say are aggressively 

20           pushing such products on our farmland owners?

21                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  I 

22           would say that of the notice of intent that 

23           we get at the Department of Agriculture about 

24           proposed solar projects, I would say 


                                                                   85

 1           95 percent or more are coming from solar 

 2           developers.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  And are the 

 4           farmers that are coming to your agency 

 5           looking for some advice, are they given 

 6           adequate support and resources to make sure 

 7           that they can make informed decisions with 

 8           these situations?

 9                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  They 

10           do.  Our Land and Water people are very good 

11           at this subject.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  All right.  And 

13           then I got a little bit of time left before 

14           the buzzer rings.  But, you know, we've 

15           talked about this before, but do we know how 

16           much farmland in terms of acreage has been 

17           lost to wind or solar energy development 

18           within the last five years?

19                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

20           we're going to accurately look at that in 

21           this budget here, looking at the loss of 

22           farmland from a variety of sources.  There's 

23           no doubt there has been some Tier 1 through 4 

24           actively lost farmland, actively farmed land 


                                                                   86

 1           that has been lost to solar development.

 2                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  That's my biggest 

 3           concern, Commissioner, is that the left hand 

 4           doesn't know what the right hand is doing.  

 5           And we talk about food security throughout 

 6           this state.  We can sustain ourselves here, 

 7           but we surely can't if we have no farms.  As 

 8           Farm Bureau says:  No farms, no food.

 9                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  We 

10           share that concern.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  Thank you.

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

13                  Our second ranker -- for Parks, 

14           Cultural Affairs, et cetera -- Jim Tedisco, 

15           five minutes. 

16                  SENATOR TEDISCO:  Thank you, 

17           Commissioners, for being here today, for your 

18           testimony and so often coming to visit me and 

19           my constituents in the 44th Senatorial 

20           District.  And inviting me to be there with 

21           you and bringing good news, usually.  So I 

22           really appreciate that.

23                  You know, you're probably aware of the 

24           fact, because we are here if we've been to 


                                                                   87

 1           these budget hearings often, that when we 

 2           start the year and we have the budget, a lot 

 3           of words start to emanate around the Capitol 

 4           here.  And usually they give you an 

 5           indication of the direction we're going.  And 

 6           sometimes one word rises to the top here at 

 7           the budget.  And you probably can guess what 

 8           that one word has become here in the Capitol 

 9           and in New York State.  I say tongue in cheek 

10           and probably not that seriously, but if I had 

11           a dollar for every time I heard the word 

12           "affordability" in New York State this year, 

13           we wouldn't have these hearings because we 

14           could balance this budget and budgets into 

15           the future.

16                  I think my question to you is, because 

17           I believe that if we're going to reach 

18           affordability -- and this is coming down from 

19           our leaders here, the Governor of New York 

20           State and many of our colleagues, and all of 

21           us know that's important, extremely 

22           important -- we're going to have to have 

23           spending priorities, serious spending 

24           priorities.  Not based on an election coming 


                                                                   88

 1           up, but based on creating a better quality of 

 2           life for our constituents.  And as has been 

 3           said by the leaders here, leaving more money 

 4           in taxpayers' pockets -- not maybe generating 

 5           that money from them directly and giving it 

 6           back to them, but talking about tax cuts, 

 7           which we're very supportive.  We've been 

 8           talking about those from my conference, and 

 9           as ranker I think that's important 

10           holistically.

11                  But I would ask you, because I'm 

12           probably believing that as commissioners, 

13           your groups -- the Governor has reached down 

14           to you and said, Help me with this goal of 

15           affordability, help me to find out what we 

16           can do through the great parks and recreation 

17           we have, through the historic sites where 

18           people come to visit -- because there's 

19           restaurants and there's hotels where people 

20           are staying, generating money from small 

21           businesses and developing that, and the 

22           farmers we have and the great products they 

23           produce and the jobs they create.  We had 

24           some pretty good tax dollars that came in, 


                                                                   89

 1           sales tax money that came in this past year.

 2                  As you interact with the Governor, and 

 3           I'll ask you this question, what would be 

 4           your direction or top priority to help her 

 5           achieve those goals of affordability in 

 6           New York State, through your activity in 

 7           terms of keeping people in New York State, 

 8           attracting people to come to New York State?  

 9           We shouldn't be -- we're a beautiful state, 

10           and I think you guys do a wonderful job in 

11           many areas, and our commissioners do too with 

12           what they have available to them.

13                  Bu 101,000 people left the state last 

14           year.  So I do agree with the Governor -- 

15           better late than never -- we have an 

16           affordability problem.  What would be the 

17           number-one priority you think you could do or 

18           direction you could take as commissioners to 

19           help her with that affordability problem and 

20           us in New York State?

21                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

22           And I can start there.  You know, for Parks, 

23           Recreation and Historic Preservation, 

24           accessibility.  I think last year what you 


                                                                   90

 1           saw is when we waived fees at swimming pools 

 2           all across our system, we saw a 36 percent 

 3           increase.  And mind you, that fee that we 

 4           waived was a dollar at some parks and upwards 

 5           of $5 at other parks.

 6                  When temperatures rose in that third 

 7           week of June to above 92, 95 degrees for four 

 8           straight days, we did also waive fees 

 9           throughout the parks system -- that VUF, that 

10           vehicle use fee -- and we saw attendance jump 

11           by 40 percent.  

12                  And I think parks can be a litmus test 

13           for affordability.  We are incredibly 

14           affordable.  And some of the biggest things 

15           that we hear when we're out there with 

16           communities -- you know, there's been times 

17           where perhaps, you know, with inflation or 

18           costs rising, we've had to consider maybe, 

19           you know, jumping the costs on a base fee at 

20           a campsite, it could be 50 cents, and we hear 

21           about it.  And it's good understanding that, 

22           you know, what is affordable to perhaps me 

23           may not be affordable to many of those who 

24           live in New York State, and being conscious 


                                                                   91

 1           of that.  And that's why we're incredibly 

 2           sort of, you know, dedicated to making sure 

 3           that parks remain affordable on many levels.

 4                  SENATOR TEDISCO:  So about more people 

 5           being available to invest in our parks at 

 6           maybe lower income levels that some others 

 7           can't.

 8                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 9           And then access our parks, you know, in a 

10           number of different ways, yeah.

11                  SENATOR TEDISCO:  Thank you very much.

12                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  My 

13           colleague said accessibility, and I would 

14           have said connecting the dots between our 

15           agricultural community and a community that 

16           needs access to food in a bigger and better 

17           way.  So I think we're on the same page 

18           there, yeah.  Thanks for the thoughtful 

19           question.

20                  SENATOR TEDISCO:  Thank you, 

21           Commissioners.  Appreciate it.

22                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

23                  Assembly.

24                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblymember Mary 


                                                                   92

 1             Beth Walsh, for three minutes.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WALSH:  Thank you very 

 3           much.  

 4                  Good afternoon.  My question is for 

 5           Commissioner Simons, and it has to do with 

 6           the 250th anniversary of the 

 7           Revolutionary War and those events that are 

 8           starting to take place.  And one of the 

 9           things that has come back to me is that 

10           there's a lot of disappointment that the 

11           Governor's budget has not made any investment 

12           in the 250th celebrations that are being 

13           planned for the area.  

14                  And that's in contrast to other 

15           states.  Like New Jersey has made an 

16           investment of 25 million; Virginia, 

17           20 million; South Carolina, 5 million.  And 

18           so really -- I'll ask the question and then 

19           I'd really love your feedback.    

20                  You know, New York State was the site 

21           of so many crucial events leading to the 

22           creation of our nation, including the 

23           Battles of Saratoga in 1777.  You know, 

24           military buffs, patriotic Americans, people 


                                                                   93

 1           from around the world are even expected to be 

 2           coming to Saratoga County and other places 

 3           around New York State to help mark these 

 4           events, including at the battlefield, to 

 5           learn, to celebrate.  

 6                  And this won't only just be a point of 

 7           pride for New York State, but also, if we do 

 8           it well, it will generate tourism revenue.

 9                  So will you advocate for New York 

10           State to invest in this important, 

11           once-in-our-lifetime commemoration?  You 

12           know, it's just a little bit embarrassing 

13           that New York State appears to be investing 

14           nothing while other states who can't claim as 

15           much history as we do are doing so much more.

16                  So I'd love your feedback on that.

17                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

18           And thank you for that.  I appreciate that, 

19           as cochair of the 250th Commemoration 

20           Commission.  And, you know, we're confident, 

21           we're confident New York State will deliver a 

22           robust commemoration, certainly with 

23           available resources.  

24                  I'll say we're just at the beginning 


                                                                   94

 1           of the budget process, and certainly, you 

 2           know, we'll of course be happy to continue to 

 3           discuss, you know, legislative priorities 

 4           along the coming weeks and coming months. 

 5                  But, you know, you -- we -- half of 

 6           our historic sites are tied to the 

 7           American Revolution, you know, in many ways.  

 8           We are particularly proud of the launch of 

 9           our kiosk program.  You know, we launched 

10           this at Washington's Headquarters.  We have 

11           20 more that will debut at historic sites and 

12           state parks across the state.  And this 

13           really is, you know, sort of the storytelling 

14           of the 250th, but telling it from multiple 

15           perspectives, that Our Whole History 

16           initiative.

17                  So certainly it is something that is 

18           just the start of it.  You know, I could get 

19           a list of capital projects too at many of our 

20           historic sites.  But the commemoration 

21           commission, we kicked off, we have our next 

22           meeting in March.  And we have a strategic 

23           plan that is imminent.  And I think that 

24           you'll find many of the recommendations 


                                                                   95

 1           might, you know, cover some of the concerns 

 2           you raise here today in the lead-up to the 

 3           250th.

 4                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 5                  Senator Chris Ryan, three minutes.

 6                  SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:  Thank you, Madam 

 7           Chair.

 8                  Good afternoon.  A question to 

 9           Commissioner Ball.  

10                  We talked about the fair.  I'm in the 

11           50th District -- Chris Ryan, 50th Senate 

12           District, thank you.  Home of The Great 

13           New York State Fair, I might add.

14                  So with that said, very happy to hear 

15           about, obviously, the capital improvements.  

16           But I know that's a broad -- but hopefully we 

17           can get a little bit more in the weeds.  

18           Could you elaborate just a little bit 

19           beyond -- I know we talked about the outdoor 

20           concert venue, but can you get a little bit 

21           more specific on it?

22                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Sure, 

23           yes.  Well, welcome aboard, first of all.  

24           Thank you, look forward to working with you 


                                                                   96

 1           out in your county.

 2                  SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:  Thank you.

 3                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah, 

 4           we're looking at a variety of projects.  

 5           certainly  I've heard it characterized that 

 6           we're looking to add more concerts at the 

 7           fair, which is not the case.  We did put a 

 8           substantial investment in that area over the 

 9           last 10 years, pretty significant.  For 

10           example, the Expo Building, which prior to 

11           COVID was booked for the entire year.  And 

12           we're now working on getting back up to 

13           having that be a more year-round experience 

14           for people.

15                  So we're anxious to accelerate the 

16           number of horse shows that we have at that 

17           fair in that building.  And I would say we 

18           need -- we recognized over the last few years 

19           some needs for upgrades to the building to 

20           accomplish that goal around electrical 

21           outlets and things like that.  So we're 

22           working with OGS on that.

23                  But we're also looking at the whole 

24           western end of the fair.  We have the pond 


                                                                   97

 1           there now, we've got the villages.  I don't 

 2           know if you've had an opportunity to visit 

 3           the villages.  We have a central location for 

 4           them at the western end of the fair where we 

 5           had the Asian village, we have the Indian 

 6           village, and we had the Latino village there.  

 7           We've had the Black experience on the other 

 8           end of the fair.  But tying together and 

 9           making that a more significant event and 

10           having their own stage and place to recognize 

11           that.

12                  That's our youth end of the fair, in a 

13           very big way -- the 4-H building, the FFA 

14           proposed buildings.  That's an opportunity to 

15           invest in agriculture with our youth.  Those 

16           are some of the things that we're thinking 

17           about, along with some capital improvements 

18           that we need to do.  We've got to finish that 

19           sheep barn, and we've got those other 

20           buildings up and running.

21                  SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:  Well, that's, you 

22           know, good news.  And I certainly -- I think 

23           we really, really need to look at it in the 

24           context of an economic driver.


                                                                   98

 1                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Sure.

 2                  SENATOR CHRIS RYAN:  We certainly need 

 3           to utilize that facility where the -- I mean, 

 4           the whole entire experience.  Because I think 

 5           it can create tourism, I think it can be a 

 6           good economic development driver.  I'd be 

 7           really -- really anxious to hear about some 

 8           priorities going forward, how we could best 

 9           utilize that for the region.  So expect good 

10           things to come.

11                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Sure.  

12           Well, you know, we've made a very direct move 

13           to make agriculture the centerpiece of the 

14           fair again.  And I tell all our ag groups, 

15           all our commodity groups:  If you had a 

16           chance to talk to a million people -- which 

17           is what we'll attract just in those 13 

18           days -- what would you want to say to them?  

19           So it's a great opportunity for that.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

21                  Assembly.  

22                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblymember Otis 

23           for three minutes.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  Here we go.  My 


                                                                   99

 1           clock did not start till the green light went 

 2           on.

 3                  Commissioner Ball, thank you always, 

 4           every year, for your thoughtful answers to 

 5           the questions that come your way and the 

 6           great job that you do.  And for all of that, 

 7           I'm not going to ask you a question, I'm 

 8           going to ask a question of State Parks.  But 

 9           I want to -- I've heard you over many years, 

10           and the quality job you do is appreciated by 

11           everybody.  So thank you.

12                  Commissioner Simons, a question about 

13           the great program at state parks which is the 

14           growing of EV charging access in state parks' 

15           parking lots for visitors.  And we've been 

16           updated over the years on that program; if 

17           you could update us on where we are today and 

18           how that continues to grow at state parks.

19                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  So 

20           it's something certainly that we have been 

21           drilling in on more heavily.  Right now we 

22           have really been -- concentrated on improving 

23           our own fleet.  I think we're upwards of 

24           50 percent of our light-duty fleet is 


                                                                   100

 1           certainly electric in nature, renewable.

 2                  And we're looking at sort of the next 

 3           goal, is sort of those charging stations 

 4           within our parks.  You know, there are a 

 5           select few where they do -- are housed.  And 

 6           the next conversation is public versus, you 

 7           know, our own fleet and the needs for them.

 8                  But I think you see us around a 

 9           15 percent, you know, number right now, with 

10           the idea that the number will continue to 

11           grow because of the nature of where we need 

12           to be, certainly, to do our part.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN OTIS:  That's great.  And 

14           that's certainly, I think, an added 

15           attraction for people to come to parks but 

16           also with the growing adoption of EV 

17           vehicles, it's something that we should be 

18           doing -- not just at state parks, at every 

19           state facility where there's parking, and 

20           grow that.  So thank you.

21                  With that, we love our state park 

22           system and your whole team at State Parks.  

23           Keep up the good work, and I will yield back 

24           the rest of my time.


                                                                   101

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  (Mic issue.)  All 

 2           right.  Sorry.  Thank you very -- these are 

 3           tricky.

 4                  Senator Nathalia Fernandez.

 5                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  It's supposed to 

 6           be green, okay.

 7                  Good morning -- good afternoon.  Thank 

 8           you, Commissioners, for being here. 

 9                  My question is to Commissioner Ball.  

10           In the state fiscal year 2024-'25 enacted 

11           budget, the Governor had given a million 

12           dollars for beginning farmers and 1 million 

13           appropriated for socially and economically 

14           disadvantaged farmers.  We see that that is 

15           the 1.3 percent of Black, Indigenous and 

16           people of color.

17                  Now, this year she has discontinued 

18           those programs.  Can you provide any 

19           information on how -- I'm sorry, on the 

20           programs this funding has supported and the 

21           status of projects funded through these 

22           programs?  And what organizations has the 

23           department partnered with to distribute the 

24           grant funding for socially and economically 


                                                                   102

 1           disadvantaged farmers?

 2                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah, 

 3           thanks for that.  

 4                  This has been a long effort.  We 

 5           started this after the USDA NASS statistics 

 6           had come out in 2018, and we saw the numbers 

 7           of Black farmers, for example, Latino 

 8           farmers, we saw those numbers drastically 

 9           changing, and we sought to address that.

10                  So the -- I'm happy to tell you that 

11           it's not in her budget this year because we 

12           have reappropriations of over $4 million 

13           available to us.  We had to go through a 

14           fairly lengthy process of finding 

15           administrators to put the program out.  So 

16           the initial funding a couple of years ago was 

17           spent getting them up to speed, getting them 

18           certified, getting them the 501(c)(3) status 

19           that they needed to actually accept the 

20           money.  

21                  I'm happy to tell you that the 

22           Beginner Farmer Work Group money, that has 

23           been -- it's out there.  That program closed 

24           I think a couple of weeks ago.  We'll be 


                                                                   103

 1           released -- we'll have the grants released in 

 2           January.  So we've got the funding there.  We 

 3           didn't -- that was a legislative add that you 

 4           guys put in the last couple of years.  It's 

 5           much appreciated.  But it will finally be 

 6           able to get out the door here in the next 

 7           coming months.  So we've got over $4 million 

 8           available to do that.

 9                  Along the way, we now have an 

10           assistant commissioner in charge of this 

11           subject area, we've got a website, outreach, 

12           agriculture.ny.gov.  We have open calling 

13           hours -- office hours, I should say, not 

14           calling hours -- office hours twice a month 

15           for people that are interested.  And we 

16           expanded the scope of this program to --

17                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  How many farmers 

18           have been awarded so far?

19                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  We're 

20           just getting to that point now where farmers 

21           are getting awarded.  

22                  But we worked with Black Farmers 

23           United and Northeast Farmers of Color to get 

24           that administrative work done.


                                                                   104

 1                  So the number of farmers that we've 

 2           served in the last couple of years has 

 3           been -- we have been all across the state 

 4           visiting farmers everywhere, including in the 

 5           city, in urban farms, community farms.  And I 

 6           feel very good about this program.  It is 

 7           finally moving.  The biggest challenge we had 

 8           was the disconnect between, you know, the 

 9           lending institutions, between land, people, 

10           between education, and between navigating all 

11           the systems.  All these socially 

12           disadvantaged groups didn't have access to 

13           that, and that has been solved.

14                  SENATOR FERNANDEZ:  Thank you.

15                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Thank 

16           you for the question.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

18                  We've been joined by new Senator April 

19           Baskin.  Welcome.

20                  Assembly.

21                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblywoman Anna 

22           Kelles, three minutes.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So quick 

24           question.  This year there was funding for 


                                                                   105

 1           $1 million for an agrivoltaics research 

 2           program, specifically to help us create best 

 3           practices to ensure that we do maximize the 

 4           agricultural production where we have solar.  

 5           That was not in this year's budget, and I'm 

 6           curious if that is ongoing and where that is 

 7           at right now and whether there is an interest 

 8           in adding that funding back in for the 30-day 

 9           amendments.

10                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah, 

11           two things.  One, that funding is ongoing at 

12           Cornell, one aspect of it.  I think that's 

13           what you're referring to.

14                  The other aspect of it is that 

15           separate from that, is Ag & Markets and 

16           NYSERDA with the technical working group are 

17           looking at this subject very intently, trying 

18           to decide what is, what isn't, what's 

19           feasible, what doesn't work, what could work.  

20           It's got --

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  But this is an 

22           ongoing -- we've already put a million 

23           dollars into it.  And it was a three-year, 

24           $3 million project, so I was curious.


                                                                   106

 1                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah.  

 2           So I think what you're speaking about is the 

 3           Cornell project.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Mm-hmm.  

 5           Specifically, yeah.  For best practices.

 6                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  It's 

 7           ongoing.  That's ongoing.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Okay.  And I 

 9           know farmers depend heavily on agricultural 

10           products research funded by the state, and 

11           that's through Cornell CALS and their capital 

12           Cornell program for tech research.  That 

13           funding has been flat since 2009.  I know 

14           that there's been a request by multiple 

15           entities who will be testifying today for 

16           $5 million for capital and $5 million for 

17           operating.  Is that something that would be 

18           considered potentially for a 30-day 

19           amendment?

20                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

21           you know, we'll cross that bridge.  But we do 

22           have funding in research at Cornell; it's 

23           pretty extensive.  I've got to sit on the 

24           CALS advisory committee for the dean.  We've 


                                                                   107

 1           invested some money in CURC -- you know, the 

 2           ruminant center on -- at Cornell this year.  

 3           That's in the budget.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Right.  I know 

 5           that if they just did an adjustment for an 

 6           inflational loan back to 2008, it would be 

 7           $46 million that they would need.  So the 

 8           10 million, 5 million for each, is pretty 

 9           nominal compared to that.  I know that's 

10           something worth considering, I think.

11                  Another quick question, to Parks.  

12           Thank you so much.  And thank you so much, 

13           Commissioner Ball, I really appreciate it.

14                  You talked about the Parks officers.  

15           Is there an inclusion of the 20 million 

16           pension parity in this budget?

17                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

18           Not in this budget, no.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Okay.  Because 

20           I know that that has been causing huge issues 

21           in disparity between the two groups.  

22                  And the 200 million that was put in 

23           the budget for parks infrastructure, do we 

24           know what the actual need is?


                                                                   108

 1                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 2           Yeah, I think when you look at the 200 

 3           million you're looking at our core, right?  

 4           You're looking at, you know, the foundational 

 5           elements that sort of -- that lift the park 

 6           system up.

 7                  But we're currently putting together 

 8           that short list, and I think you're going to 

 9           see like a 90 percent return rate on the core 

10           items, everything from -- the core 

11           infrastructure within our system to improve 

12           upon the expectations that visitors have.

13                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Thank you so 

14           much to you both for all your great work.

15                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Thank 

16           you.

17                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

18           Thank you.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

20                  We have Senator Oberacker.

21                  SENATOR OBERACKER:  There we go.  

22           Green to go I guess is what it says.

23                  So, Commissioners, thank you both for 

24           taking the time to come up here to Albany.  


                                                                   109

 1           It's always good on a -- when it's not snowy 

 2           and having to deal with that.

 3                  So -- and Commissioner Ball, please 

 4           don't feel that I'm not addressing anything 

 5           with you, but I'm going to address my 

 6           questions to Parks & Rec, so you get a chance 

 7           to relax.

 8                  So, Commissioner Simons, thank you 

 9           again for coming up.  You know, as somebody 

10           who has a bunch of parks in their district -- 

11           in Otsego County, where I live, we have 

12           Glimmerglass, Betty and Wilbur State Park, 

13           Gilbert Lake, you know, and they're 

14           absolutely amazing.  And one of the things 

15           you brought up was accessibility, which I 

16           found was the key word to that.

17                  We did a great job of a kayak boat 

18           launch at Glimmerglass.  It's being used 

19           unbelievably -- you've made a lot of people 

20           happy.

21                  Being a sportsman and one who would 

22           love to take my grandkids out onto 

23           Glimmerglass Lake in a more traditional role 

24           of taking them fishing, it would be really 


                                                                   110

 1           interesting if we could look at accessibility 

 2           and getting a boat launch for those that are 

 3           in that realm, and opening up this absolute 

 4           jewel of a rec to those constituents.

 5                  And I will tell you this, I learned 

 6           more from my grandfather fishing in a boat 

 7           than I ever have anywhere else.  So if you 

 8           could do that, that would be awesome. 

 9                  One other question I do have, and this 

10           is again for Parks -- and this pertains 

11           particularly to safety.  I know we had some 

12           incidences at the state parks -- I believe 

13           we've had a couple of deaths, which we've 

14           never had.  And so one of the things I was 

15           concerned about with that, is there a 

16           continued -- I'm sure there's a continued 

17           focus, but is there anything more that we 

18           could be doing at our state parks to kind of 

19           ramp up security?  I'm a first responder -- 

20           those type of things, you know, is there a 

21           plan in place to address -- because we're 

22           talking quite a few people coming hopefully 

23           for the Ryder Cup and things of that nature.

24                  Thank you.


                                                                   111

 1                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 2           And thank you for your service as a first 

 3           responder.  It's the partnerships that we 

 4           have with the emergency services, both from a 

 5           state and local perspective, that really sort 

 6           of help us all, you know, partner in 

 7           delivering, you know, utmost public safety to 

 8           our visitors.

 9                  You know, for the first time ever, you 

10           know, we saw last year the Governor invested 

11           53 million towards just, you know, improving 

12           safety infrastructure in our parks.  We 

13           immediately got to work, we identified, you 

14           know, 51 projects -- 51 parks, I should say, 

15           that were in use of everything from maybe 

16           license-plate readers to, you know, improved 

17           security, fencing and lighting, security 

18           cameras.  And right now those projects are 

19           everywhere from design to procurement to in 

20           the construction phase.

21                  And we are especially mindful of our 

22           own personnel as well.  I mean, it is -- we 

23           painfully, you know, now and again get 

24           reminders of the risks that are involved in 


                                                                   112

 1           providing for safe and enjoyable recreation.  

 2           So we are looking at training, enhanced 

 3           training across the board to make sure they 

 4           have the resources they do to to get the job 

 5           done.

 6                  SENATOR OBERACKER:  Thank you.

 7                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 8           Thank you.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

10                  Assembly.

11                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblymember 

12           Scott Gray, the ranker on Parks.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN GRAY:  Thank you very 

14           much.  

15                  Thank you, Commissioners, for being 

16           here today.

17                  So first I want to address 

18           Commissioner Simons.  It says "investing in 

19           parks," some of the language in the state -- 

20           in the Executive Budget, "200 million," and 

21           it said "substantial level of funding that 

22           will aid ongoing transformation of New York 

23           State's flagship parks." 

24                  So first of all, I'd like to know 


                                                                   113

 1           where those parks are geographically, and 

 2           perhaps you want to name what the parks are.  

 3           But I'm looking for equity in terms of 

 4           distribution of that $200 million as well.  

 5                  And then the other thing I want to 

 6           talk about a little bit, if you can, is 

 7           the -- some of the grant programs, NY BRICKS, 

 8           NY PLAYS, NY SWIMS.  A lot of those have 

 9           language in there again that is targeting 

10           where that money is going to be directed to.  

11           And I'm really concerned that New York State 

12           taxpayers believe that there's some sort of 

13           expectation that they're going to have some 

14           of the taxpayer money returned to their 

15           communities, without parameters attached to 

16           them where it's going to be directed to other 

17           communities, so that everybody has a fair and 

18           equal opportunity to address -- to get some 

19           of those funds back.

20                  And then once you get done with that, 

21           Commissioner Ball, if you can just talk about 

22           NDAs with developers and solar farms and 

23           things like that.  Should farmers be expected 

24           to have an NDA in those agreements?  Do you 


                                                                   114

 1           support removing NDAs from those agreements 

 2           so farms know what they're being -- you know, 

 3           how they're being played against each other.

 4                  So now, Commissioner, thank you.

 5                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 6           No, I appreciate those questions, very 

 7           important to us.  Equity across the board, 

 8           from a personal/professional capacity, 

 9           certainly believe in equity.  I think when it 

10           comes to our capital funding, those are 

11           extensive meetings with our regional teams.  

12           You know, the regions get an allotted amount, 

13           you know, set for their particular regions.  

14           And they will raise up the priority projects, 

15           and we'll discuss.

16                  So certainly equity of our funding 

17           does get spread out.  Certainly flagships, 

18           you know, obviously are prioritized in many 

19           regions.  But we have 250 properties, right, 

20           and we have to make sure that they are not 

21           only accessible, but they have the proper 

22           funding so we can accommodate, you know, all 

23           those who visit those parks as well.  

24                  And when you look at the Unplug and 


                                                                   115

 1           Play -- you know, I think it's about 

 2           elevating.  Parks can be on the main stage, 

 3           elevating New York State.  And what we're 

 4           finding in the conversations with communities 

 5           is certainly, you know, the annual allotment 

 6           we have of our parks, you know, goes a long 

 7           way in repairing, refurbishing and, you know, 

 8           taking the TLC on our own parks.

 9                  But we're finding that in stressed 

10           budgets in municipalities, oftentimes parks 

11           and the arts are the first, you know, 

12           programs to go.  And this really is -- we are 

13           at a time, because of the physical and mental 

14           wellness, you know, benefits that parks 

15           supply, we're in a time where the state can 

16           step in and the state can aid our communities 

17           in raising that profile.

18                  For SWIMS -- you know, a swimming pool 

19           is not at the top of a local budget.  In 

20           fact, that's why many of them were in 

21           disrepair.  That we can provide a little 

22           assistance for them to say how can I miss out 

23           on this funding coming to me, I will raise 

24           that to the top.  And we're looking at 


                                                                   116

 1           playgrounds, to get kids off their devices, 

 2           giving them other opportunities.  And the 

 3           community centers, putting a great 

 4           concentration there as well.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN GRAY:  Thank you very 

 6           much.  

 7                  Commissioner?  

 8                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah, 

 9           thank you for the question.  It's a hot topic 

10           for certain.  And frankly New York State 

11           wasn't ready, the farm community wasn't 

12           ready, and our municipalities and county 

13           governments were not ready for the -- you 

14           know, the onslaught of developers with solar 

15           ideas.

16                  So those are technical, legal 

17           questions.  I'll go back to our counsel on 

18           that.  

19                  I think the best thing that we can do 

20           to serve the agricultural community is an 

21           educational one, and we've sent our Land and 

22           Water people out across the state to educate 

23           them on, you know, some of the language 

24           that's in the agreement that's being put in 


                                                                   117

 1           front of them.  There were all kinds of 

 2           language issues and rights that farmers were 

 3           giving up if they agreed to accept, you know, 

 4           $2,000 per acre per year for the next 

 5           20 years.  That sounds pretty attractive, but 

 6           some of them were very poor deals.

 7                  So for us I think it's very much 

 8           continue to work with NYSERDA, continue to 

 9           work with the technical working groups there, 

10           continue to educate our communities.  Because 

11           we can't achieve our solar goals just on the 

12           back of farmland.

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN GRAY:  Thank you.

14                  And so just in my remaining time, I'll 

15           go back to Commissioner Simons.  So I just 

16           offer you or ask you to look at your boat 

17           launches, especially your standalone boat 

18           launches.  I know we talked offline here.  

19           You know, they're in a struggle to get 

20           funding and get adequate attention from both 

21           staff and financial resources.  So we have a 

22           lot of standalone boat launches, they're very 

23           important to fishing and other activities.

24                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  


                                                                   118

 1           One hundred percent.  Thank you.

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  Sorry 

 3           to cut you off.

 4                  Our ranker for Finance, Tom O'Mara, 

 5           five minutes.

 6                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you, 

 7           Chairwoman.  

 8                  Good afternoon, gentlemen.  Thank you 

 9           both for being here.  Commissioner Ball in 

10           particular, thank you for your many years of 

11           service to this great state, and your 

12           continued service.  

13                  I want to thank you for your comments 

14           earlier in regards to support for industrial 

15           hemp.  I'm still very hopeful on that 

16           industry in New York and that we get some 

17           traction on that in addition to the other 

18           uses of hemp.  But the industrial stuff is 

19           extremely important and promising, I believe.

20                  And also to your efforts on making 

21           sure we protect farmland, in light of the 

22           ever-expanding solar industry in New York 

23           eating up farmland across the state.  So look 

24           forward to continued review and guidance on 


                                                                   119

 1           that, so thank you for that.

 2                  A couple of specific questions on some 

 3           line items.  I see a 61 percent cut to the 

 4           New York State Apple Growers Association.  

 5           Now, last year was a devastating year to the 

 6           crop for the apple industry in New York 

 7           State.  Can you explain to me why we're 

 8           cutting that association by $760,000, this 

 9           year's 61 percent cut?

10                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  I 

11           believe that was, if I'm correct, your folks' 

12           good work on adding that funding there.  The 

13           Governor came in at the same level this year 

14           as she did last year.  That reflected your 

15           inputs.  

16                  And again, this budget is really -- 

17           the Governor's budget is the starting gun, 

18           and we rely so much on your input in the 

19           Senate and the Assembly for things that are 

20           important to you.

21                  But that was a legislative add and 

22           worth considering again.

23                  SENATOR O'MARA:  You agree that the 

24           apple crop in New York took a big hit last 


                                                                   120

 1           year because of some weather incidents of, I 

 2           think, hail and frost?

 3                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  I 

 4           visited some farms in your area last year.  

 5           And we've had some challenging years 

 6           recently.  You know, we set a record for the 

 7           number of tornados in New York State in one 

 8           single day last year.  We set flooding 

 9           records.  I was in your neighborhood looking 

10           at some pretty big devastation there.

11                  So absolutely.  And I think it's not 

12           just a state issue, it is a national issue.  

13           You know, the national crop is also facing a 

14           pretty significant surplus as a result of 

15           some trade decisions that have been made over 

16           the recent years.

17                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you.  And I was 

18           going to get to commenting on your visit to 

19           Canisteo in the post-flooding.  I thank you 

20           very much for that and your leadership in 

21           that, and certainly our agriculture industry 

22           aross -- and farmers across the 

23           Southern Tier.  Appreciate your work on this.

24                  Another significant area that's seen a 


                                                                   121

 1           significant line-item cut is the New York 

 2           Farm Viability Institute, with over a 

 3           million-dollar cut, a 53 percent cut.  Is 

 4           that the same thing, where we need to fight 

 5           to get that back in, the Legislature, one of 

 6           these fights we have every year?

 7                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

 8           at least at this level, yes.  That was -- you 

 9           know, that was your legislative add last 

10           year.  We support the Farm Viability 

11           Institute.  And actually we fund them in some 

12           alternative ways with small -- not small, but 

13           specialty block grant funding on some 

14           projects that they have subscribed to us.

15                  So we believe in the viability of 

16           farms in New York State.

17                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thank you, 

18           Commissioner.  I'll move on in my remaining 

19           time to Commissioner Simons.  

20                  Thank you, and it was great to see you 

21           at Stony Brook this summer --

22                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

23           Yes.

24                  SENATOR O'MARA:  -- for that.


                                                                   122

 1                  A couple of questions on the funding 

 2           for ORDA, particularly in the ski resorts, 

 3           particularly focusing on recreational skiing, 

 4           cross-country, downhill.  

 5                  There's an $85 million capital 

 6           appropriation, an increase of 15 million, 

 7           21 percent, to ORDA; another line of 25 

 8           million, an increase of 12.5 million, a 

 9           100 percent increase on that line for ORDA.  

10           I looked at facility things, but I think that 

11           also encompasses recreational skiing 

12           facilities as well.  Can you break that out 

13           on what of that is going towards traditional 

14           recreational industry and what we're doing in 

15           this study to help all the private industries 

16           that we have?  

17                  And I support ORDA and these 

18           facilities, but it's very unfair competition 

19           when we send hundreds of millions of dollars 

20           to these state-owned ski facilities -- which 

21           are fantastic, and I'm a skiier -- but we've 

22           got other great private facilities that we 

23           can't even get tax breaks on energy for them 

24           to make snow.  


                                                                   123

 1                  So can you address the fairness of 

 2           that competition, so to speak, between these?

 3                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 4           You know, and that's a -- it's a great 

 5           question, a very fair question.  I'd like to 

 6           take some time to investigate that further.  

 7           We were discussing that very thing just the 

 8           other day.

 9                  You know, parks are communities, 

10           right?  Parks are partners in many aspects.  

11           And we try to elevate, you know, our agency 

12           to assisting communities in a number of 

13           different ways.  But I'm happy to drill in 

14           very -- you know, much deeper on that very 

15           idea, and I'll get back to you with a more 

16           firm answer when we have some more time to 

17           discuss.

18                  SENATOR O'MARA:  Thanks.  Thank you.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

20                  Assembly.

21                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblymember 

22           Carrie Woerner.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:  Thank you, 

24           Commissioners.  It's always a pleasure to see 


                                                                   124

 1           you both. 

 2                  Commissioner Ball, could you give us 

 3           an update on the meat processing plant 

 4           grants?  Have they been -- were there 

 5           applications made?  Are they moving forward?

 6                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  On 

 7           the New York grants?

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:  Yeah.

 9                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  They 

10           are all out.  They're all out the door. 

11                  And it was a $5 million program.  I 

12           think we were over subscribed.  I think we 

13           were able to award 26 different entities some 

14           funding there.  But we spent that money.  

15           It's out the door and doing good work.  So 

16           that was a tremendous success.

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:  Great.  Do we 

18           need to do more of this?  Do we -- where are 

19           we on capacity for meat processing?

20                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

21           I'm going to make the Senator smile, but I 

22           think it was a great program.  And it 

23           identified a real weakness in New York 

24           State's supply management of, you know, meat 


                                                                   125

 1           products.

 2                  We saw on -- the federal side there 

 3           was over a billion dollars put forth to 

 4           advance processing around the country.  Too 

 5           much of it is centered in one part of the 

 6           country.  But we had very little takers.  

 7           Maybe it was because of the federal 

 8           government and the complexity of dealing with 

 9           them and the complexity of the grants, but we 

10           did not have success with that, even though 

11           we called every processor in the state, USDA 

12           or custom, and tried to convince them to go 

13           that way.

14                  But the state monies went out very 

15           quickly, in a rapid period of time, and made 

16           a difference.  It continues to make a 

17           difference.

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:  So it has 

19           expanded our capacity.

20                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah, 

21           I think so.

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:  Terrific.  

23                  You talked about the state fairs, and 

24           I know in the past we've done capital 


                                                                   126

 1           programs for county fairs to help them 

 2           upgrade their infrastructure.  We didn't do 

 3           one last year because there was still money 

 4           that had not been -- had not been applied for 

 5           yet.  Where are we on the need for an 

 6           additional fund for county fairs?

 7                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  I 

 8           have mixed feelings about this one because we 

 9           still have funding available through the four 

10           rounds that the Legislature approved for 

11           funding there.  And I have to say so much of 

12           it is laying on the shoulders of both a 

13           little bit of -- many of these smaller fairs 

14           are volunteer organizations, may not have the 

15           expertise to navigate New York's SFS system 

16           or what used to be called Grant's Gateway.

17                  So at the department we've dedicated a 

18           group of people to helping hold the hands and 

19           walk people through the process.  That's been 

20           the holdup, largely.  But we still have 

21           funding available to do that.

22                  On the other side of the fence, we do 

23           have funding also to help with transportation 

24           of inner-city, generations of rural kids to 


                                                                   127

 1           get to county fairs, to help them with 

 2           marketing their fairs.  And that's been very 

 3           successful, appreciated, and that will 

 4           continue.  That we have additional funding 

 5           for.

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:  Thank you very 

 7           much.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 9                  Just looking through -- oh, hi, 

10           Senator Fahy, you've joined us.  Do you have 

11           a question, since it's a Senator time?

12                  SENATOR FAHY:  Yes.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay, three 

14           minutes for Senator Fahy.

15                  SENATOR FAHY:  Thank you.  

16                  I stepped away for a while to head to 

17           conference, and so I apologize if this was 

18           already asked, and you can just tell me it 

19           was.  

20                  But for Commissioner Ball, we've done 

21           a little work on conservation easements here 

22           in -- locally with Guilderland, Town of 

23           Bethlehem, and I know a number of other areas 

24           have done conservation easements.  Does that 


                                                                   128

 1           help?  And is there something more that 

 2           should be done with farmland protection and, 

 3           you know, smart-growth planning?

 4                  And if you could answer that in 

 5           relation to some of the debates that I know 

 6           you referenced earlier to Senator Hinchey 

 7           with regard to balancing and protecting 

 8           farmland while moving on solar energy 

 9           initiatives and more.

10                  So how can we do this in a way that 

11           makes it workable for all and is protecting 

12           some of our best farmland while also growing 

13           the land trusts and others, if you would.

14                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah.  

15           So a great question.  And in particular when 

16           it comes to this area, everyone pretty easily 

17           recognizes the encroachment of suburbia onto 

18           farmlands and the need to protect that 

19           farmland.  

20                  What's less understood is community 

21           gardens, urban farms, they also have 

22           conservation problems.  And so we've expanded 

23           our thinking to include those groups, which I 

24           think is excellent.  I think the use of 


                                                                   129

 1           easements has proven and will prove to be an 

 2           effective tool to help a beginner farmer, a 

 3           new farmer, or a farmer that wants to expand, 

 4           change their operation to invest in it again.

 5                  So those conversations are very live, 

 6           and I very much appreciate the opportunity to 

 7           look at it in this -- in your neighborhood in 

 8           particular.

 9                  SENATOR FAHY:  Thank you.  And I'd 

10           love to pursue any of that a little further.  

11           They have been helpful here with at least 

12           giving options, particularly for every 

13           high-desired land and developments.  As you 

14           said, there's encroachment from -- as the 

15           Capital Region continues to grow.  

16                  And then switching gears in my last 

17           few seconds, Commissioner Simons, just 

18           your -- commend you on the veterans' Lifetime 

19           Liberty Pass, which is just wonderful.  Can 

20           you just talk a little bit about 

21           accessibility to state parks with those who 

22           may not have cars?  I know that we've -- your 

23           numbers keep growing, but physical 

24           accessibility remains a challenge, in all of 


                                                                   130

 1           20 seconds.

 2                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 3           And so appreciate that question.  It's 

 4           something we've talked extensively on.  We 

 5           started piloting programs -- City of Albany, 

 6           Tompkins County, even down at Jones Beach, 

 7           partnering with local public transportation 

 8           units to increase visits to parks -- "Nature 

 9           Bus" in Tompkins and Albany County.  We are 

10           finally collecting data to see that success, 

11           but we think we can implement it elsewhere 

12           across the state.

13                  SENATOR FAHY:  Thank you.

14                  Thank you, Chair.  Thank you.  

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

16                  Assembly.

17                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblymember Ed 

18           Ra, the ranker on Ways and Means.

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you, Mr. Chair.

20                  So for Parks, you mentioned the Ryder 

21           Cup, and I have a couple of questions both 

22           pertaining to the Ryder Cup and to Bethpage 

23           in general.

24                  First, a lot of us downstate heard 


                                                                   131

 1           from constituents when the ticket prices came 

 2           out.  Obviously there's a potential -- this 

 3           is a great international event, potentially 

 4           have a great home court advantage, so to 

 5           speak, for the USA in it, and people are 

 6           concerned they're being priced out.  Is there 

 7           anything being done with regard to that?

 8                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 9           Yeah, so we've had extensive conversations 

10           with the PGA, and we expect to offer, you 

11           know, days that are significantly reduced, 

12           you know, at the cost to the public to 

13           attend, you know, some or part of that event.  

14           But it's something that is very much on our 

15           mind, being affordability.  But we're having 

16           a lot of discussions and we'll have some news 

17           on that shortly, sir.

18                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Okay.  And then with 

19           regard to Bethpage Park in general and the 

20           multiple golf courses there, I'm sure you're 

21           aware of this, but I -- recently it was 

22           brought to my attention that there's a lot of 

23           concern that there are bots and computer 

24           programs that are taking advantage of the 


                                                                   132

 1           booking system and making it very difficult 

 2           for people to get tee times.  Somebody did a 

 3           very detailed analysis of this and basically 

 4           it was seeing that like on Bethpage Black, I 

 5           think in particular, there was a tremendous 

 6           amount of cancellations, which indicated 

 7           maybe people are booking them and then 

 8           cancelling them if they can't sell them.  And 

 9           a lot of them were from out of state 

10           accounts, which my understanding is they're 

11           able only to book five days out as opposed to 

12           seven.

13                  So I'm wondering what the 

14           Parks Department is doing with regard to that 

15           issue.

16                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  So 

17           we have instituted sort of, you know, putting 

18           tee times aside for walkups and also, you 

19           know, spreading that across a number of 

20           different courses, the five different courses 

21           that we have.

22                  We are investigating that and, you 

23           know, any misuse of our system we're drilling 

24           in on to identify if there is a misuse of 


                                                                   133

 1           bots.  And we'll take the appropriate action 

 2           to reduce that opportunity.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Okay.  And is there a 

 4           particular -- anything or maybe something we 

 5           should be looking at legislatively, in 

 6           particular, if somebody is not only using a 

 7           bot but selling those tee times?  Which this 

 8           is something that is a publicly owned course, 

 9           taxpayers are paying for it.

10                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

11           Because of -- it's affectionately called the 

12           People's Country Club.  You know, certainly 

13           I'd love to sit down with the team and 

14           identify any, you know, concrete ideas.  But 

15           it's a real problem.  It's a real problem 

16           that we are looking into heavily.

17                  You know, the People's Course, the 

18           People's Country Club, it's -- we take great 

19           pride in that.  And being that the Ryder Cup, 

20           we saw the PGA championship being held, the 

21           U.S. Open, it is a great venue and it's a 

22           great venue to host these events because of 

23           the fans and the public that come out to it.  

24           And we need to make sure that they have the 


                                                                   134

 1           same accessibility to the course that 

 2           everybody else has too.

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Okay.  Thank you, I 

 4           appreciate that.  And I think we'll follow up 

 5           with you and your staff with regard to that 

 6           issue.

 7                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 8           Absolutely.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  One of my other Long 

10           Island colleagues wanted to ask about that 

11           there are trail projects within this budget, 

12           and he was just wondering exactly how that 

13           money is going to be doled out, how it's 

14           going to be implemented and doing the trails 

15           within our parks.

16                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

17           Yeah, and I appreciate that.  We can -- once 

18           finalized, we can share with some of the 

19           projects coming out of our own 200 million 

20           going towards trails.

21                  Trails are important, right?  I think 

22           when you look at the Governor's NY PLAYS and 

23           it's a focus on traditional playgrounds, you 

24           know, we will further expand that definition 


                                                                   135

 1           of what a playground is, and we think in many 

 2           cases trails could fall into a category -- 

 3           falls into a category within our own thinking 

 4           as we build out our capital programs.  

 5           Because of sort of that mental and physical 

 6           wellness, and particularly of our older 

 7           youth, our teenagers and all those who use 

 8           our parks, we find that trail usage goes up 

 9           each and every year.

10                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Great.

11                  Quickly for the ag side, I know, you 

12           know, you're aware there was this piece of 

13           legislation last year to try to make sure 

14           that farms could take advantage of the tax 

15           credit when they were I guess utilizing 

16           different entities with regard to their 

17           payroll, that the Governor ultimately vetoed.

18                  What's being done to make sure that, 

19           you know, these farms can take advantage of 

20           that tax credit?  Which I think is vital to 

21           them with the new overtime rules.

22                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  

23           Right.  Well, discussions are ongoing, and 

24           right now we're talking with the industry.  


                                                                   136

 1           It works pretty well for -- it works very 

 2           well for partnerships, sole proprietors.  But 

 3           when you get into some of the complicated 

 4           management forms that we have on some of our 

 5           dairy farms, there's concerns about the exact 

 6           language.

 7                  We want to make sure that the entity 

 8           who is paying the payroll for their workers 

 9           on their farm is the entity that gets the tax 

10           credits.  And sometimes when there's 

11           management corporations involved, et cetera, 

12           it can get confusing.  So that language is 

13           being clarified.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN RA:  Thank you.

15                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

16                  I think I am next, 10 minutes as the 

17           chair.

18                  So I'm going to start asking every 

19           government commissioner who comes here a 

20           variation on this question, but I'll start 

21           with you, with Parks.

22                  So we have 22 federal parks in 

23           New York State.  If the federal government 

24           starts to defund them, what is the impact on 


                                                                   137

 1           us and what are we going to do about it?  

 2           Because they're still parks in our state.

 3                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 4           You know, and it's -- we faced similar 

 5           situations in the past with the State of 

 6           Liberty and Ellis Island, and we've been able 

 7           to be a partner in maintaining and keeping 

 8           them open.

 9                  I think when you look at the magnitude 

10           of 22 parks, it's not a large number by any 

11           respect when you consider the size of 

12           New York, but it's an important number.  And 

13           always open and willing to having 

14           conversations.  Of course it comes at a great 

15           cost, the operational capacity.  But we have 

16           many partnerships with our federal partners 

17           at other parks as well that, you know, it's a 

18           good relationship.  And we like to think 

19           we're the great unifier, right?  So maybe 

20           there's an outlier with parks and 

21           understanding that most people can appreciate 

22           the benefits of outdoors.

23                  But we are watching and monitoring the 

24           temperature in Washington very closely.  I 


                                                                   138

 1           think when we look at the history, parks -- 

 2           New York State, you know, certainly has 

 3           always been willing to put itself at the 

 4           table as a partner and lead if need be.  And 

 5           I think that doesn't change with -- depending 

 6           on the shift that may or may not happen.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 8                  I think the rest of mine are for the 

 9           Ag & Markets commissioner.

10                  When I think -- you already partly 

11           answered the question before about concerns 

12           about workforce on the farms, given current 

13           federal policy.  Are there other concerns we 

14           ought to have for our agricultural sector 

15           because of changes in federal policy?

16                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

17           we're going to watch this very closely.  

18           There's more to learn than we know today.  We 

19           do have some reputable partners coming in; 

20           USDA, we're excited to see that, people that 

21           I know that we have relationships with.  And 

22           largely it's relationships.

23                  Concerns around the climate, some of 

24           the programs that have been in place for the 


                                                                   139

 1           last several years.  We were able to get a -- 

 2           advise Washington on a Nourish NY-style 

 3           program, it's called the LFPA.  We were able 

 4           to distribute, you know, over $50 million 

 5           worth of funding like Nourish has done 

 6           through their funds in New York State, which 

 7           was great.

 8                  I think that we're in the relationship 

 9           business.  And the funding that comes to us 

10           from FDA is for food safety, for doing 

11           testing, for inspections and things like 

12           that.  These aren't just fun projects, these 

13           are actual work.  We contract with the 

14           federal government at FDA, at USDA, to be on 

15           farms doing inspections for them, carrying 

16           out the work that needs to be done.  So it's 

17           not all fun and, you know, here is extra 

18           money kind of stuff, it's actual tasks that 

19           we perform for them.

20                  So the nature of those and what goes 

21           around them, you know, we have more to learn.  

22           Certainly Farm Bill -- you know, is this 

23           administration going to be able to get the 

24           Farm Bill done in a timely fashion?  Which is 


                                                                   140

 1           probably the most far-reaching, most 

 2           impactful farm bill to New York State this 

 3           time.  So those are things we're going to 

 4           watch closely, we just have to pay attention 

 5           to, because it's a little bit of the federal 

 6           administration, a little bit of Congress.

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  So it's my 

 8           understanding that when it comes to food 

 9           safety as far as, you know, meat and other 

10           things, it has been the USDA responsible for 

11           inspections.  

12                  So we know that we're now in the 

13           middle of an avian bird flu crisis.  I just 

14           read about I guess the duck farm on 

15           Long Island having to I believe kill off its 

16           entire flock of 100,000 ducks.

17                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yup.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And so 

19           historically that would have been USDA doing 

20           inspections and making sure that our poultry 

21           was healthy.  So does that -- are we 

22           concerned that they will no longer be doing 

23           this kind of work for us?

24                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 


                                                                   141

 1           that would be terrible.  But we do have to 

 2           look at those relationships.

 3                  USDA-APHIS, who manages the meat side 

 4           and manages the, you know, plant and animal, 

 5           those are conversations we have -- we 

 6           consider them partners with us in a very big 

 7           way.  I expect that partnership to continue.  

 8           Will they roll back some of their partnership 

 9           efforts?  I don't know.  I hope not.  But we 

10           meet with them very regularly, work very 

11           closely with them.  

12                  So meat is a little bit unique in that 

13           USDA-certified meat means something.  We do 

14           not have a certification program in New York 

15           State.  

16                  But when it comes to produce, grocery 

17           stores, food manufacturing facilities, dairy 

18           processing facilities, that's the Department 

19           of Agriculture in New York State that does 

20           those inspections for FDA, for example.

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

22                  So we know under CLCPA law we have 

23           targets we have to reach on economy-wide 

24           greenhouse gas emissions, and it's my 


                                                                   142

 1           understanding that unfortunately agriculture 

 2           emissions have not decreased.  Do we have 

 3           plans to try to increase the decrease of 

 4           emissions in our agricultural sector?

 5                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  We 

 6           sure do.  And we're doing some really great 

 7           work in that neighborhood.

 8                  New York agriculture has -- was very 

 9           happy and pleased and able to serve on the 

10           Climate Action Council.  We had a chair 

11           there.  I got to head up the Forestry and 

12           Agriculture Work Group, and I'm happy to say 

13           we were the only work group that came out 

14           with consensus on what was the thing to do.  

15                  But in agriculture today we have the 

16           ability to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.  

17           We have the ability to sequester carbon.  We 

18           have the ability to reduce nitrous oxide 

19           emissions on our farms.  And we have the 

20           ability to make energy on our farms.  

21                  So I'm very optimistic about our way 

22           forward.  We need to invest some, we need to 

23           work a little bit harder on this, we need to 

24           get back to cap-and-invest, which is -- got 


                                                                   143

 1           tabled for a little while because of some 

 2           extracurricular activities in all our 

 3           governments.  But I'm looking forward to 

 4           getting back to that conversation, because 

 5           agriculture is part of the answer here.  We 

 6           don't just make it less bad, we actually make 

 7           it better.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Good.  We want 

 9           you to.

10                  You know that I am a big supporter of 

11           the New York City farmers market system and 

12           the system in Hunts Point of moving New York 

13           State produced and grown products down to 

14           Hunts Point so that it can be sold throughout 

15           the city.  How are those programs doing?  Are 

16           we seeing increases in the sales?  Do we 

17           measure that?

18                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  We 

19           have seen dramatic increases in sales, and we 

20           have to because we have a tremendous 

21           population, particularly in that big urban 

22           center, that doesn't know much about us.  

23                  We're getting ready any day now -- 

24           it's been a little bit delayed by New York 


                                                                   144

 1           City -- in opening the food hub in the Bronx, 

 2           which will be a New York Grown and Certified 

 3           food hub, the biggest one down there, provide 

 4           us access to the South Bronx, to Brooklyn, 

 5           parts of Harlem, all the boroughs.

 6                  We're very anxious to get that done.  

 7           The building is up, we need to get the 

 8           certificate of occupancy, and waiting for a 

 9           day to be there.  I'd love to have you come 

10           join us there when we kick that off, because 

11           it's going to dramatically increase the 

12           accessibility of food for the boroughs.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

14                  So I support selling wine in 

15           supermarkets, and basically the analysis is 

16           it will help New York wine producers sell 

17           more wine.  I'm curious what your opinion is.

18                  (Pause; laughter.)

19                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  I 

20           will say, first of all, not to pass the buck, 

21           but that's an SLA issue.  And we've talked 

22           with SLA about it.  

23                  I think, if done properly, it could be 

24           a significant boon to New York producers and 


                                                                   145

 1           consumers both.  We were able in our last 

 2           year to get direct shipment for our liquor 

 3           producers in the state, which was an 

 4           important step forward.  This is a 

 5           conversation that's been looming out there as 

 6           long as you've been up here and before I came 

 7           up here.  So it needs to be carefully thought 

 8           out.  

 9                  But I look forward to that discussion 

10           and anything we can add to that.

11                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I'm going to give 

12           back my one minute and 22 seconds to the 

13           Assembly.  Thank you.

14                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  We'll try not to 

15           use it.

16                  We've been joined by Assemblywoman 

17           Jo Anne Simon.

18                  Our next questioner will be 

19           Assemblymember Brian Cunningham.

20                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  Thank you, 

21           Chair Krueger, for the additional minute and 

22           27 seconds.

23                  (Laughter.)

24                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Nope, I just said 


                                                                   146

 1           you couldn't have it.  Three minutes.

 2                  (Laughter.)

 3                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  I can't help 

 4           but try.

 5                  And Mr. Chair, the chairmanship looks 

 6           good on you.  Congratulations on being 

 7           appointed.

 8                  I have a really quick question; I'll 

 9           be under a minute.  I just wanted to know if 

10           there are any current studies or research 

11           into climate-resilient crops and 

12           climate-smart farming practices right now in 

13           the State of New York.

14                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yes.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  That was a 

16           short answer.

17                  And is there more to be done there, 

18           particularly looking at some of the 

19           climate-change things happening across the 

20           state and the country.  Just wanted to know 

21           if there's more we can do on that front.

22                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah, 

23           continue to support this budget with 

24           climate-resilient funding in it.  Because 


                                                                   147

 1           we've been able to significantly increase 

 2           that funding up to over $17 million.  And we 

 3           have -- that helps farmers deal with 

 4           droughts; you know, what to do and how to 

 5           raise those crops successfully in a very dry 

 6           year.  And also it's something farmers deal 

 7           with:  The extremes, and what about flooding, 

 8           what about too much moisture going on?

 9                  We work with our soil and water 

10           conservation districts all around the state 

11           to implement best practices.  And that's a 

12           great program, and one that's oversubscribed 

13           every year.

14                  ASSEMBLYMAN CUNNINGHAM:  Perfect.

15                  I am also going to give back a minute 

16           and 45 seconds.

17                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Thank you.

18                  Assemblywoman Paula Kay.  For three 

19           minutes.

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KAY:  Thank you.  Thank 

21           you, Mr. Chair.

22                  So I have a question actually for both 

23           commissioners today.  I'll start with 

24           Commissioner Ball.  


                                                                   148

 1                  Mental well-being of farmers is 

 2           certainly important and imperative, so I was 

 3           interested in funding for FarmNet in the 

 4           budget.

 5                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  We 

 6           are too.  FarmNet, they've been great 

 7           volunteers, great partners with New York 

 8           State with regards to mental health in a big 

 9           way.

10                  I would add NYCAMH, which has been -- 

11           operates in a base in Cooperstown.  It's been 

12           so important and critical in helping to 

13           educate farmers and farmworkers both.  

14                  I think our conversations at Ag & 

15           Markets with the Office of Mental Health, 

16           looking at mental first aid and the need for 

17           that amongst our population, amongst the 

18           state government.  And it's something we saw, 

19           if you remember, you know, it was about a 

20           decade ago, actually, when we saw suicides on 

21           farms and we saw extreme stress in the dairy 

22           industry in particular.  And we were training 

23           our inspectors, our animal inspectors, our 

24           plant inspectors as we have interactions with 


                                                                   149

 1           people on farms, to look for warning signs, 

 2           look for things that we could do to help 

 3           identify.

 4                  So I think you've highlighted 

 5           something that's very critical in New York 

 6           especially.  Things have just gotten more 

 7           challenging with social media, with 

 8           cellphones activity.  This is a real 

 9           sensitive area.  We all should be trained, as 

10           we are in fundamental first aid, in 

11           fundamental mental first aid.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KAY:  So there's funds 

13           set aside for FarmNet?

14                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  

15           FarmNet has a line in our local -- local -- 

16           Aid to Localities budget, I think it's a 

17           million dollars.  I don't think that's 

18           unreasonable at all.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KAY:  Thank you.

20                  And very quickly, Commissioner Simons, 

21           parks.  I'm very interested in the NY BRICKS 

22           program and wondering -- and maybe you can 

23           provide this in writing to me later because 

24           we don't have a lot of time.  But it's -- 


                                                                   150

 1           municipalities and not-for-profits, it's the 

 2           goal for them to work together?  Or are those 

 3           two separate grants that each would be 

 4           competing for?

 5                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  So 

 6           it definitely would be structured towards the 

 7           municipalities.  And again, with -- and I 

 8           think -- the numbers are still being worked 

 9           out, but I think it could be up to a 

10           $15 million max cap on the grant program.  

11           I'll confirm that number with you.

12                  But the idea is to create community 

13           centers or have the opportunity to repair, 

14           refurbish the current infrastructure to more 

15           promote that community engagement.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KAY:  Love it.

17                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

18           Yeah, it's a great --

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KAY:  Very interested, 

20           thank you.

21                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

22           Great.  Thank you.

23                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Is that it?

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KAY:  That's it.  Thank 


                                                                   151

 1           you, Mr. Chairman.

 2                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblywoman Jodi 

 3           Giglio.

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Yes.  Good 

 5           afternoon.  Thank you for being here.

 6                  So I would like to speak a little bit 

 7           about the Crescent Duck Farm located in my 

 8           district.  The duck farm -- it's the last 

 9           duck farm on Long Island.  It was established 

10           in 1908, over a hundred years old.  A 

11           fourth-generation farmer right now leading 

12           the charge, and children -- fifth and 

13           sixth -- on the way.  

14                  So as you know, they had to euthanize 

15           100,000 ducks due to the avian bird flu.  It 

16           was a tremendous -- it still is a tremendous 

17           impact on them.  And I want to thank you, 

18           commissioner, and I really want to thank 

19           Dr. Bennett and Dr. Collins for working with 

20           the owners of the farm.  

21                  But, you know, they just spent 

22           $5 million on wastewater treatment and it 

23           costs a million dollars a year to run the 

24           wastewater treatment plant.  He's expended 


                                                                   152

 1           $500,000 so far in just the composting and 

 2           remediation.  And he's not asking the state 

 3           for any money, which is shocking -- he's 

 4           using his own capital.  

 5                  But what are we doing about the avian 

 6           bird flu to prevent this happening now that 

 7           it's moving into livestock in other parts of 

 8           the country, and France is using vaccinations 

 9           for the birds to prevent the avian bird flu 

10           from killing these flocks?  

11                  And also about the spotted lantern 

12           fly.  I mean, these are threats that we've 

13           been talking about for many years, and I'd 

14           like to know what research is being done to 

15           prevent this from happening to any other 

16           farmer.

17                  And again, I want to thank you for 

18           your continued cooperation of working with 

19           the Corwin family at the Crescent Duck Farm.

20                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

21           please give them my best when you see them 

22           and talk to them.  I look forward to seeing 

23           them at food shows, where he's always there 

24           supporting Taste New York and New York Grown 


                                                                   153

 1           & Certified stuff, so ...

 2                  This is a very painful thing to watch 

 3           and have to be a part of.  And it's so 

 4           random, because it's, you know, ducks and 

 5           geese that are flying through the migratory 

 6           pathways that are distributing this virus.  

 7           They're immune to it, but they leave us with 

 8           it.

 9                  So it's been a great partnership.  It 

10           occupied most of our weekend, you know, when 

11           it hit, talking with the USDA, talking with 

12           our people to get the job done to our 

13           satisfaction.

14                  Yeah, we'll do whatever we can to help 

15           him sustain the family farm, in any way we 

16           can be helpful in negotiating the 

17           indemnification with USDA.

18                  I will say, though, when it comes to 

19           high-path AI, the state departments of 

20           agriculture, all the commissioners across the 

21           country, all the state animal health 

22           officials, the Dr. Bennetts all around the 

23           country -- we talk with FDA, we talk with 

24           USDA.  We're talking on this subject every 


                                                                   154

 1           day.  Everyone's looking at the vaccinate 

 2           opportunities.  We're testing milk across the 

 3           country.  We're doing everything we can in 

 4           New York at least to keep the dairy side of 

 5           it out of New York State.

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Thank you.  I 

 7           just -- it's devastating, and I don't want to 

 8           see it happen to any of our other cattle 

 9           farmers or steer farmers or duck farmers.

10                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  So thank you.

12                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Thank 

13           you.  You bet.

14                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblyman Joseph 

15           Angelino.

16                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANGELINO:  Thank you, 

17           Chairman.

18                  Commissioners, thank you very much for 

19           being here.  I appreciate your time.  And 

20           I'll stay in my legislative committee 

21           membership lane and direct my questions 

22           regarding parks.

23                  I was happy to hear you're increasing 

24           or at least you've had a couple of classes of 


                                                                   155

 1           police officers graduate for the Park Police.  

 2           And hopefully that maintains your workforce, 

 3           because I know you're at -- it's hard for you 

 4           to do when there's no equity between the 

 5           retirement systems of other officers.

 6                  My first question regarding the Park 

 7           Police is, do you -- would you support or do 

 8           you support the end of the New York State 

 9           Police operational control of the 

10           Park Police?

11                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  I 

12           support the best avenue for public safety in 

13           our parks.  And I truly believe the 

14           Park Police are a crucial area of our 

15           workforce that maintain a sense of comfort 

16           and security in our parks because of their 

17           presence.  They're in and around the parks 

18           and, in conjunction with our Park Rangers and 

19           our park staff, offer a much-needed resource 

20           in our parks to give the utmost public safety 

21           to our patrons, yes.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANGELINO:  So currently 

23           the Park Police have put their investigators 

24           back into uniform and the New York State 


                                                                   156

 1           Police BCI investigates major crime.  Would 

 2           you like to have your own officers back 

 3           conducting your own park investigations?

 4                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  I 

 5           think when you look at public safety you have 

 6           to look at, you know, New York State 

 7           resources and all the resources available to 

 8           do, you know, the different jobs that are 

 9           required in law enforcement.

10                  I value the tremendous partnership we 

11           have with the State Police, even our local 

12           law enforcement agencies.  And together, 

13           together I think we can deliver, we have 

14           delivered better than ever, in the last few 

15           years, you know, the best public safety at 

16           our parks.

17                  But that discussion is ongoing, and we 

18           continue to have it.  But I know the State 

19           Police in that area, they do it well.  We do 

20           it well as well.  And it's a matter of 

21           finding out what the right niche is between 

22           the two units.  But I think we certainly have 

23           the ability to do so.

24                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANGELINO:  I'm very fond 


                                                                   157

 1           of the Park Police.  They're the 

 2           organization -- especially out in the 

 3           Niagara Frontier, the specialties that they 

 4           do, you know, the rope rescue, it's just 

 5           amazing.  

 6                  They're also, a lot of people don't 

 7           realize, New York State's first state law 

 8           enforcement agency.

 9                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  A 

10           hundred and forty years, yes, sir.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANGELINO:  Real quick, I'd 

12           like to see more marketing, and tell me what 

13           you can do to highlight more our great 

14           veterans at the Purple Heart Hall of Honor in 

15           New Windsor.  Please expound on that.

16                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

17           You know, so that is a very special place in 

18           our system, in our hearts.  We -- you know, I 

19           think what we saw in the centennial year last 

20           year, we launched the most aggressive 

21           marketing campaign in the history of our 

22           agency.  And we saw -- we had the data to 

23           back it up.

24                  And you can point to the record 


                                                                   158

 1           visitation, you know, in the 4.5 percent, 

 2           88 million.  But it's certainly -- we're now 

 3           looking at different parts of the agency to 

 4           incorporate into the marketing plan as well.

 5                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANGELINO:  Thank you, 

 6           Commissioner.  Appreciate your time.

 7                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

 8           Great, appreciate your questions.

 9                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Next is Assemblyman 

10           John Lemondes.

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES:  Thank you, 

12           Chairman.  

13                  Thank you, Commissioners.  Appreciate 

14           you being here today.  My question is for 

15           Commissioner Ball.  

16                  With respect to the annual increase in 

17           demand for New York's maple products, is 

18           there any discussion on easements for all of 

19           the maple that's locked up behind road 

20           frontage by different property owners?  

21           Similar to Senator Fahy's question on another 

22           topic.  

23                  I'm just wondering if that -- if Ag & 

24           Markets would undertake that to enable, to 


                                                                   159

 1           unlock that benefit for the whole state's 

 2           economy.

 3                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Well, 

 4           that's an interesting question.  We have gone 

 5           down that path with regards to state lands.  

 6           We have unlocked that door.  We can get 

 7           access for maple producers to get on state 

 8           lands and find the maple trees.

 9                  Other private properties?  I'd have to 

10           think about that one a little bit.  You know, 

11           if there was a viable pathway that made 

12           sense, I guess we'd consider it.  But that 

13           one looks problematic to me.

14                  We are growing, we did invest more 

15           money in maple this year in the budget.  You 

16           know, the research we're doing in New York 

17           State is great.  As you know, we have more 

18           trees than Vermont, we have more producers 

19           that Vermont, and we can do more.  And it's 

20           been a growing industry, so we're very proud 

21           of our maple industry.

22                  ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES:  Right, 

23           recognizing that it is difficult, that that 

24           would be difficult.  I think that if we were 


                                                                   160

 1           able to unlock that, though, even if it were 

 2           only partially successful, it would still 

 3           contribute greatly to the state's economy.

 4                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah.  

 5           Look forward to your ideas on that.

 6                  ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES:  Thank you.

 7                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  You 

 8           bet.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN LEMONDES:  Thank you, 

10           Chairman.

11                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Thank you.

12                  Assemblywoman Stefani Zinerman, three 

13           minutes.

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN ZINERMAN:  Thank you, 

15           Chairs Pretlow and Krueger.

16                  Commissioners, good afternoon.  How 

17           are you?

18                  PANEL:  Great.

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN ZINERMAN:  I have one 

20           question for each of you.  I missed you this 

21           summer at the State Fair, Commissioner Ball, 

22           so you're up first.

23                  My question is to follow up on the 

24           question asked by Senator Fernandez.  And I 


                                                                   161

 1           appreciate your update on what happened with 

 2           the Black and Socially Disadvantaged Farmers 

 3           Fund.  But it's been two years, so I'd like 

 4           to know, how many people did we lose in that 

 5           time?  Because they were in the program 

 6           because they were struggling.  And so how 

 7           many did we lose?

 8                  And would you be open -- although we 

 9           have $4 million, I assume those are for 

10           people who are already in the pipeline.  

11           Would you be open to asking for an additional 

12           million or 2 million for the people who are 

13           standing in line to enter the program?

14                  As you know, in my little town in the 

15           56th Assembly District, we've got 15 out of 

16           19 schools growing food hydroponically and 

17           aquaponically and we've got people -- there 

18           are now 26 farms and gardens, you know, 

19           buying land upstate, and they need assistance 

20           too.  So I know you said there's 4 million in 

21           the hopper, but we do have other people who 

22           are waiting.  This program is a beacon of 

23           light, and for it to disappear in this year's 

24           budget is a little disarming to people, 


                                                                   162

 1           especially as they look at the federal -- the 

 2           adverse federal policies that are starting.

 3                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yeah.  

 4           Well, thank you for that question and for 

 5           your passion about it.

 6                  I've been able to visit a lot of 

 7           schools in the New York City area, just 

 8           recently in the Bronx and Brooklyn and even 

 9           Manhattan.  And what they're doing through 

10           the Ag in the Classroom program is amazing.

11                  I'm not sure I could quantify how many 

12           people maybe got lost because of the delays 

13           in getting the funding and an administrator 

14           out, because we were able to, through our 

15           Nourish New York program and through the 

16           New York Food for New York Families program, 

17           which was part of the federal LFPA money, we 

18           were able to reach much further into the 

19           neighborhoods, the young farmers, the 

20           beginning farmers, socially disadvantaged 

21           farmers, and connect them with neighborhoods 

22           much more deeply even than Nourish, the 

23           pantries and the soup kitchens.

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN ZINERMAN:  So can we 


                                                                   163

 1           talk offline about that?

 2                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Yes, 

 3           we can.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN ANGELINO:  Just so I can 

 5           ask the commissioner -- but I will say, you 

 6           know, we're at about 139 and we used to have 

 7           1 million Black farmers.  So I really do not 

 8           want to lose any more.

 9                  Commissioner, thank you so much for 

10           100 Years of Parks.  I had a great time with 

11           my seniors in several parks this year.  

12           Please keep it up.  Additional challenges -- 

13           it doesn't have to be about a hundred years, 

14           but let's figure out how we can kind of keep 

15           it going.

16                  My question to you is that I went to 

17           Barcelona, I saw some wonderful innovations 

18           for people with disabilities.  So do you have 

19           plans to do any guided audio navigation or 

20           tactile pathways for visually impaired 

21           people?  Talk about what you're doing for -- 

22           to improve the parks for people with 

23           disabilities.

24                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  


                                                                   164

 1           Just people -- real quick, to people with 

 2           disabilities, you know, just thanks for the 

 3           funding.  Right?  So every new capital 

 4           project takes into account our programming.  

 5           It continues to, you know, bring up new and 

 6           innovative ways to -- you know, to address 

 7           accessibility.  And also we're addressing 

 8           some of those aspects, being as expansive as 

 9           we are, just to improve accessibility.  But 

10           it's one of the top priorities of the agency 

11           to improve this all across the board.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN ZINERMAN:  Say it again.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Sorry, we have to 

14           cut you off.

15                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Thank you very 

16           much.  

17                  I just have a couple of questions, 

18           basically for Commissioner Ball.

19                  You had mentioned earlier about the 

20           direct shipments.  The naysayers had a lot of 

21           bad things to say about that proposed 

22           legislation, that, oh, the companies are 

23           going to come into New York and take over the 

24           industry.  Did that ever come to fruition?


                                                                   165

 1                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  I 

 2           think I heard part of your question, but you 

 3           were -- it was about direct shipment of --

 4                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  About the direct 

 5           shipment of cider and wine.  The people that 

 6           were opposed to that legislation were 

 7           claiming that other companies would come from 

 8           out of state and set up shop and call 

 9           themselves New York companies and ship their 

10           spirits in New York.

11                  Did that ever happen?

12                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  No.  

13           My experience, actually we did direct 

14           shipment of wine 20 years ago, and there were 

15           the same predictions that things were going 

16           to be very bad.  And if anything, the wine 

17           industry has grown both -- on every aspect of 

18           it.

19                  So I don't expect any changes that 

20           we'll see in direct shipment of cider and our 

21           spirits.  I don't think it's going to affect 

22           that at all.  It's going to be a success, 

23           especially for the craft beverage producers 

24           that we encouraged to get into the business 


                                                                   166

 1           over the last decade.

 2                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Okay.  And with the 

 3           slow rollout of cannabis in New York, there 

 4           was some talk about farmers that couldn't 

 5           sell their product because there weren't 

 6           enough licensed retail sellers, so they had 

 7           to destroy their crops or they -- I don't 

 8           know, I didn't know marijuana went bad.  But 

 9           it does, I guess.  And there was a monetary 

10           loss to these farmers.

11                  Were they ever made whole?  Was 

12           anything ever done to alleviate the pressure 

13           that was put on them?  Because that pressure 

14           was put on them by the state.  We forced them 

15           to do certain things, we told them how to 

16           grow, when to grow and where to grow.  And 

17           then we had nobody allowed to buy their 

18           product, they had to sit on it.  And my 

19           understanding is it was like tens of millions 

20           of dollars.  Was anything done to take the 

21           stress and the pressure off of those farmers?

22                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  You 

23           know, that's a complicated question.  You've 

24           got a federal issue there, you've got a state 


                                                                   167

 1           issue, and you have another agency, the 

 2           Office of Cannabis Management.  Their mission 

 3           is much bigger than simply growing a crop.  

 4                  But my understanding is that very few 

 5           of them actually found satisfaction with what 

 6           they lost.  But today's a new day, and we've 

 7           been -- recently, in the last two years, I 

 8           know they've been working very actively to 

 9           get more opportunities for them.  That's the 

10           Office of Cannabis Management; I'd have to 

11           defer the specifics to them.

12                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  So they just burned 

13           their crop and moved on to the next time, 

14           next year?

15                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  Some 

16           did, yeah.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  They're coming to 

18           the Economic Development hearing.

19                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Oh, they are?  

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  So you can ask 

21           them the question.

22                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Okay, we will. 

23                  Another thing on cannabis also, I've 

24           heard complaints that the odor emitted by the 


                                                                   168

 1           crop as it's growing has been objected to by 

 2           neighbors.  Is that true, first of all, and 

 3           if it is, is there anything that can be done 

 4           to make it better, make the air better for 

 5           the surrounding communities?

 6                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  We 

 7           anecdotally hear reports that the odor is 

 8           objectionable to neighbors.  I would defer 

 9           what's being done about that to the Office of 

10           Cannabis Management.  But that is a concern 

11           that we have heard.

12                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  So that's also 

13           Economic Development, I guess.  

14                  I just have one quick question for 

15           Commissioner Simons.  You'd mentioned the 

16           swimming program, and you mentioned children.  

17           Is there anything being done for people like 

18           myself, adults, that need swimming lessons?

19                  (Laughter.)

20                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

21           You know, we have a number of programs in our 

22           parks that certainly, while the concentration 

23           has been on our youth, there are certainly 

24           opportunities and considerations to expand, 


                                                                   169

 1           you know, the program in the future.

 2                  But right now it is targeted to the 

 3           youths -- you know, it's a lifelong skill.  

 4                  But yeah, Riverbank, I know there are 

 5           adult swim programs.  So that select parks do 

 6           have adult swim programming, and we find 

 7           they're booked to capacity, as you can 

 8           imagine.  And it's looking to expand that in 

 9           some of the other areas.  And Riverbank, 

10           what's nice about that, that's a year-round, 

11           our only year-round swimming facility.  But 

12           certainly trying to, you know, get that into 

13           the calendar on a regular basis on our summer 

14           pools that are open seasonally.

15                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  So the adult 

16           lessons are booked to capacity.  Are the 

17           youth swim lessons also booked to capacity, 

18           or is there some space there?

19                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

20           Yeah, so we have signups, you know, around 

21           May, June of every year, and they book up 

22           pretty fast.  You know, I know people are 

23           lining up, families are lining up on sign-up 

24           day.  But what's nice about that is, you 


                                                                   170

 1           know, two years ago we taught 400 kids to 

 2           swim over a summer.  With the tripling of the 

 3           program, that jumped to over 2,000.  But 

 4           those programs are not only popular, but they 

 5           are needed.  And we're looking at expanding 

 6           it in different parks across the system as 

 7           well because they're very, very utilized.

 8                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Okay, thank you.

 9                  And I just have one quick question for 

10           Commissioner Ball again.

11                  Equine slaughter, something that's 

12           been near and dear to my heart for several 

13           years, and we recently did legislation that 

14           the Governor signed having to do with human 

15           consumption of horses and monitoring at the 

16           auctions that these horses are being shipped 

17           through New York.  It is -- I believe it's a 

18           felony to transport horses for human 

19           consumption, but they're going through 

20           New York into Canada where they're being 

21           slaughtered and sent out to other countries 

22           in Europe and Asia.

23                  I know the bill talked about a 

24           good-faith effort by Ag & Markets.  Is it the 


                                                                   171

 1           intention -- I hope your answer is a big 

 2           yes -- that Ag & Markets will actually go and 

 3           attend these auctions -- there's only one, I 

 4           think it's Uniondale.  You don't have to go 

 5           to a lot of different places -- and just 

 6           monitor these?  Because the individuals that 

 7           are selling these horses, it's the same 

 8           person or persons, there's not very many of 

 9           them.  And we'd really like to stop that.  I 

10           mean, these horses could be humanely 

11           euthanized and not tortured and sent to 

12           Canada to be, you know, whacked into horse 

13           steaks.

14                  So my question is, is it the full 

15           intention of Ag & Markets to actually monitor 

16           these auctions and make sure that horses are 

17           not being shipped off to other places for 

18           slaughter?

19                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  At 

20           this point that's a police activity.  We are 

21           able to post, and we have people at auctions.  

22                  But I think we need a more thoughtful 

23           conversation about the legality of someone -- 

24           you know, when a horse is sold at an auction, 


                                                                   172

 1           there needs to be a veterinary signature, 

 2           there needs to be, you know, some legal 

 3           documents signed, a purchase agreement, 

 4           et cetera.  And I think that's probably the 

 5           vehicle that we need to have a thoughtful 

 6           conversation about.

 7                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Well, I have those 

 8           papers, I have where horses were sold in 

 9           Pennsylvania, auctioned through New York, and 

10           the papers, their final destination was the 

11           slaughterhouse where they make horsey steaks. 

12                  So we know it's happening.  And the 

13           paperwork that you're referring to is 

14           available.  And I think that if we took -- 

15           made a good-faith effort to stop this, that 

16           it would stop.

17                  But to turn the other -- you know, the 

18           blind eye to it doesn't really work.

19                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  It's 

20           not -- it's not really about turning a blind 

21           eye to it.  We are engaged in conversations 

22           with Gaming to talk about putting more teeth 

23           into that law, so.  

24                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Okay.  Thank you.


                                                                   173

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 2                  And to close for this panel, Senator 

 3           Hinchey, chair of Agriculture, with a 

 4           three-minute second round.

 5                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  I'm so happy to kick 

 6           off and close.  Good for me.

 7                  (Laughter.)

 8                  AG & MARKETS COMMISSIONER BALL:  What 

 9           an honor.

10                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you all.  

11           Again, thank you for your time and for your 

12           answers today.

13                  I'm going to close my last question 

14           with our commissioner for Parks, Mr. Simons.  

15           Thank you, Commissioner Simons.

16                  In the 41st District some of the most 

17           beautiful areas, I would say, in the world, 

18           and wonderfully, Parks is a great partner on 

19           a lot of those places.  However, they also 

20           all need capital improvements and capital 

21           projects, one of them being the Harlem Valley 

22           Rail Trail, which we're told the state is 

23           going to support -- without $25 million for 

24           helping close the section of trail.  I'm 


                                                                   174

 1           hopeful -- I didn't see that in the budget.  

 2           It's a smaller number in comparison to budget 

 3           numbers, so I'm hopeful that that is 

 4           happening.

 5                  But I'd like to just take a second to 

 6           ask if this is on your radar:  The 

 7           Hudson-Athens Lighthouse.  So that is 

 8           nationally recognized as one of the seven 

 9           historic landmarks to save across the 

10           country.   It is an incredibly important 

11           historic landmark in our area, but really for 

12           our state.  

13                  Minority Leader Schumer has allocated 

14           significant federal dollars to help restore 

15           the lighthouse, but there is a state share.  

16           And that is something that I've also not seen 

17           in the budget, so I just want to check and 

18           see if that's on your radar and what the 

19           plans might be.

20                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  So 

21           thank you.  And you heard it here first, 

22           right?  The Hudson {sic} Valley Rail Trail, 

23           there is that gap.  And we are, you know -- 

24           an existing $200 million in providing the 


                                                                   175

 1           gap -- it's 2.5, providing that it doesn't 

 2           escalate.  But we are prepared, under the 

 3           Parks budget --

 4                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you.

 5                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  -- 

 6           to close that gap and get that moving.  So 

 7           we're very excited about that.

 8                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you.

 9                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

10           We're watching the Hudson-Athens Lighthouse 

11           very closely.  Many discussions with the 

12           Army Corps, who have been greatly involved in 

13           sort of -- you know, there's been dredging 

14           around that that impacted and is really 

15           expediting the erosion, you know, of that 

16           lighthouse and the foundation.

17                  But watching that closely, working 

18           with our historic preservation partners, and 

19           just having active discussions.  But like 

20           anything else, it's -- if it comes down to a 

21           capital request, it's just what's the nature 

22           of the capital request and how can we 

23           partner.  It's, you know, much to -- a lot of 

24           the questions today were about communities, 


                                                                   176

 1           and where we can help, we will.

 2                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Our understanding, 

 3           just so that we're all on the same page, our 

 4           understanding is that Minority Leader Schumer 

 5           has allocated the $50,000 for the Army Corps 

 6           of Engineers to start doing the study, it's 

 7           in that pipeline.  And then the total 

 8           anticipated cost is about $30 million, with 

 9           the federal government taking about 

10           two-thirds, but would require the state to 

11           take a third.  So that, should it not 

12           increase, would be about 10 million.

13                  So happy to continue the conversation 

14           with you, thank you, but want to make sure 

15           that we're tracking that.

16                  PARKS COMMISSIONER PRO TEM SIMONS:  

17           Absolutely.  Thank you.

18                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you.  

19                  And thank you, Madam Chair.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Okay, and we were 

21           wrong, don't go anywhere.  We have another 

22           Assemblymember.

23                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Nope.  The question 

24           was answered.


                                                                   177

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Never mind.

 2                  Okay, then we all -- we want to thank 

 3           you very much for your participation today, 

 4           and free you from this hearing.

 5                  And we will call up, as you leave -- 

 6           oh, sorry, you're our first panel for the 

 7           year.  If people want to grab these 

 8           commissioners, do it outside.  We don't want 

 9           you having conversations on either side where 

10           we can't continue with the next panel.

11                  So we appreciate you, but now go away.

12                  (Laughter.)

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And we're going 

14           to call up the New York Farm Bureau, the 

15           Northeast Dairy Producers Association, the 

16           Northeast Organic Farming Association of 

17           New York, and the Adirondack Food Network.

18                  (Pause.)

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Hello, everyone.  

20           Welcome.  And so we now get to the part of 

21           the hearings where everyone only gets 

22           three minutes.  So we always advise people, 

23           even if you have a 20-page document, don't 

24           try to read it.  Just highlight your most 


                                                                   178

 1           important bullets.  We all have all of the 

 2           testimony, and it is up online for everyone 

 3           to read.

 4                  So in my experience, those people who 

 5           have mastered their key issues, not reading 

 6           really fast, are the ones who win.

 7                  So I will let you start on this side 

 8           of the table (pointing), introduce yourself, 

 9           do your three minutes, and then we'll keep 

10           going down.  

11                  Okay?  Thank you.  Please.  

12                  MS. BAILDON:  Thank you so much for 

13           this opportunity to speak with you.  The 

14           Northeast Organic Farming Association has a 

15           few priorities for the 2026 fiscal year 

16           budget that I'm going to share with you.  

17                  My name is Katie Baildon, policy 

18           manager with Northeast Organic Farming 

19           Association, also called NOFA-NY.  We've been 

20           around since '83 and have been leading the 

21           growth of the organic regenerative 

22           agriculture movement across the state.  We 

23           provide farmer-to farmer education, technical 

24           assistance, and advocate for resilient food 


                                                                   179

 1           systems.  As a USDA-accredited organic 

 2           certifier we also certify about 1,000 organic 

 3           farms and food businesses.  

 4                  And as you know, New York is a 

 5           national leader in organic agriculture, 

 6           ranking third in the number of organic farms, 

 7           and we're also leaders in field crop and 

 8           organic livestock production.  

 9                  So I'm going to move on to -- past 

10           contracts that we've had have expanded access 

11           to organic certification and increased our 

12           ability to provide support with certification 

13           and the implementation of organic 

14           climate-smart practices.  

15                  We're thankful to the Legislature for 

16           their support, and request additional funding 

17           this year to help build a more inclusive, 

18           resilient network of New York farmers.  

19           Specifically, NOFA is requesting 250,000, 

20           including 40,000 to expand access to our 

21           programs for underserved producers, 50,000 to 

22           supplement USDA funding for NOFA events, and 

23           160,000 to expand our capacity to meet an 

24           increasing demand for our technical 


                                                                   180

 1           assistance support services.  

 2                  With the change in presidential 

 3           administrations, the future of one of our 

 4           USDA grants is uncertain, and without it we 

 5           won't be able to run our Climate Smart 

 6           Farming and Marketing program as it currently 

 7           exists, but with some support from the state 

 8           we can keep offering that climate-smart 

 9           technical assistance at a smaller scale.  

10                  And then, lastly, we have an 

11           opportunity this year I think to address an 

12           unexpected $800,000 federal funding gap for 

13           New York farmers and to sustain a really 

14           valuable program that might otherwise be 

15           unfunded.  

16                  So since the beginning of the USDA 

17           Organic label, the Organic Certification Cost 

18           Share Program has allowed farms and 

19           businesses to recover some of the expenses 

20           associated with certification, and this year 

21           that funding was not included in the 

22           Farm Bill extension.  So there's around 2,000 

23           farms and food businesses in New York State 

24           that have organic certification and have been 


                                                                   181

 1           depending on these funds.  So we would 

 2           appreciate the inclusion of that in this 

 3           year's state budget.  

 4                  Thank you.

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Next?

 6                  MR. WALLACH:  Good afternoon.  My name 

 7           is Kyle Wallach.  I'm the associate director 

 8           of public policy at New York Farm Bureau.  

 9           And, first off, I'd like to say thank you all 

10           for being here.  

11                  New York Farm Bureau is the state's 

12           largest general agricultural advocacy 

13           organization.  Our members represent a 

14           variety of commodities and provide 

15           significant revenue streams for our local, 

16           state, and national economies.  

17                  As most of you know, New York's farm 

18           economy has been struggling and farmers are 

19           working with razor-thin margins as input 

20           costs and labor costs continue to increase.  

21           That being said, we see many bright spots in 

22           the Governor's proposed budget.  However, 

23           there are still funding gaps that need to be 

24           addressed.  


                                                                   182

 1                  To further support various agriculture 

 2           commodities within the industry, farmers rely 

 3           heavily on research and promotion programs 

 4           like apple research, maple research and hops 

 5           breeding, to name a couple of many.  These 

 6           programs are dependent on support from the 

 7           Legislature each year.  

 8                  Additionally, I would like to stress 

 9           the importance of Cornell's College of 

10           Agriculture and Life Science, CALS, and the 

11           many programs under their umbrella.  These 

12           are a lifeline to many farmers throughout the 

13           state.  

14                  CALS provides key research and 

15           critical expertise that we cannot afford to 

16           lose right now.  Key lines include PRO-DAIRY 

17           and PRO-LIVESTOCK, as well as the diagnostic 

18           labs, and funding to support operations at 

19           Cornell AgriTech and its research there.  

20                  I would also like to mention the 

21           refundable investment tax credit from 

22           previous budgets for on-farm investments from 

23           tractors and equipment to milking machinery.  

24           This has triggered an incredible amount of 


                                                                   183

 1           investments on farms.  

 2                  However, we are hopeful that this year 

 3           the Legislature, along with the Governor, 

 4           will add the construction of housing to be 

 5           eligible, or the rehabilitation of current 

 6           housing.  As you can imagine, farm housing 

 7           can be very expensive to build, and those 

 8           that work on farms need and deserve 

 9           high-quality, comfortable housing.  

10                  Along similar lines, we are strongly 

11           supportive of the Governor's proposal to 

12           increase the Farmworker Housing Revolving 

13           Loan Fund by $5 million.  We are requesting 

14           that the per-project cap be increased from 

15           200,000 to 400,000 due to the high cost of 

16           construction.  

17                  I would also like to highlight the 

18           importance of extending the current Farm 

19           Workforce Retention Tax Credit that expires 

20           at the end of this year.  This tax credit has 

21           been major in helping farmers deal with 

22           ever-increasing labor costs.  

23                  We look forward to working with the 

24           Legislature and the Governor on these 


                                                                   184

 1           proposals, along with additional legislation 

 2           like the low-carbon fuel standard, creating 

 3           an equine advisory board, and wine in grocery 

 4           stores, among others.  

 5                  Thank you all for your support of the 

 6           agricultural industry.

 7                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Good afternoon.  

 8           I'm Allyson Jones-Brimmer, with the Northeast 

 9           Dairy Producers Association.  Thank you to 

10           Chairs Krueger, Pretlow, Hinchey and Lupardo 

11           for holding this important hearing.  

12                  We are excited about many of the 

13           investments the Governor has proposed in the 

14           Executive Budget, ranging from workforce and 

15           employee housing to transportation and 

16           climate initiatives.  However, there is one 

17           glaring omission in the Governor's budget 

18           which was a disappointing surprise to our 

19           members, in that it did not include a 

20           proposal to fix the Farm Employer Overtime 

21           Tax Credit to ensure all farms are eligible 

22           to receive this critical tax credit.  

23                  Thanks to your leadership, the 

24           Legislature unanimously passed a bill last 


                                                                   185

 1           session that would fix an interpretation 

 2           technicality that prevented some farms from 

 3           accessing this credit.  However, the Governor 

 4           vetoed this legislation and in her message 

 5           directed the departments of Tax and Finance 

 6           and Agriculture and Markets to work with the 

 7           Legislature during this year's budget 

 8           negotiations to develop an appropriate 

 9           overtime tax credit structure which would 

10           ensure all farmers can access the credit 

11           regardless of their business structure.  

12                  We respectfully encourage the Senate 

13           and Assembly to advance legislation in their 

14           one-house budgets to provide a retroactive 

15           fix for this crucial overtime tax credit.  

16                  Other aspects of the Governor's budget 

17           that we appreciate include the $5 million 

18           addition to the Farm Worker Housing Program.  

19           This revolving loan fund ensures farmers have 

20           support to build adequate housing facilities 

21           for employees.  This program is 

22           oversubscribed, and we believe the need is 

23           even greater than the Governor's proposal and 

24           would respectfully encourage adding a total 


                                                                   186

 1           of $15 million to the program, which would 

 2           ensure long-term solutions to challenges 

 3           facing recruiting and retaining employees on 

 4           New York State family farms.  

 5                  We also agree with Farm Bureau that 

 6           the cap on per-project is too low and would 

 7           encourage increasing it from $200,000 to 

 8           $400,000 per project.  

 9                  We also appreciate the Governor's 

10           support of Cornell's farm labor specialists 

11           in the New York Center for Agriculture 

12           Medicine and Health.  Both programs provide 

13           farms with trainings that are essential to 

14           recruit, retain, and train a high-quality 

15           workforce.  

16                  And finally, we also appreciate the 

17           Governor's support of PRO-DAIRY, including 

18           Cornell's climate leadership specialist 

19           position as well as the Executive's funding 

20           of the Cornell University Ruminant Center.  

21           This is a major step forward.  Research done 

22           at this center helps inform farm 

23           decision-making and could further advance 

24           agriculture's impact on reaching the state's 


                                                                   187

 1           climate goals.  

 2                  We respectfully encourage that the 

 3           Legislature continue to increase support for 

 4           PRO-DAIRY to allow the program to add two 

 5           farm business specialists, a dairy nutrition 

 6           specialist, and an animal well-being 

 7           specialist.  

 8                  Thank you for taking the time to 

 9           consider our remarks, and happy to provide 

10           more information.

11                  MR. STEPHANI:  Thank you.  Good 

12           afternoon, and thank you for allowing me to 

13           speak on some budget priorities for the 

14           North Country communities.  

15                  My name is Josh Stephani, and I 

16           represent the Adirondack Food System Network, 

17           a collaborative effort across North Country 

18           communities to address the challenges, gaps, 

19           and opportunities within our food system.  

20           Since 2020, our network works to broaden 

21           collaboration across the region and bring and 

22           build capacity to organizations.  

23                  As you are aware, the most recent 

24           USDA census highlights the disappearance of 


                                                                   188

 1           New York farms and an aging farmer 

 2           population.  Hamilton County, one of the most 

 3           sparsely populated counties in our state, has 

 4           watched nearly all its farms disappear.  This 

 5           means that access to fresh and healthy food 

 6           grown in the county for its communities 

 7           remains a significant burden for residents.  

 8                  Moreover, New York must invest in 

 9           resources to address and prepare for a 

10           changing farmer landscape, including 

11           succession and transition plans for the next 

12           generation.  

13                  Yet with recent flooding and drought, 

14           AFSN sees it as a priority to assist our 

15           farmers in preparation for extreme and 

16           inconsistent weather.  We ask that this 

17           Legislature continue to prioritize our 

18           North Country farming communities through 

19           programs such as the Farmland Protection 

20           Program, the Farm Worker Housing Program, as 

21           mentioned by my colleagues, and the 

22           Environmental Protection Fund.  It is 

23           critical we expand these programs to shore up 

24           our vulnerable assets.  


                                                                   189

 1                  Healthy and local food is directly 

 2           linked to supporting our farmers.  A few 

 3           weeks ago a farmer in Herkimer County 

 4           remarked that more value is placed on a bag 

 5           of potato chips than a potato.  Herkimer 

 6           County remains one of the most food-insecure 

 7           counties for New York adults.  Emergency 

 8           feeding programs like food pantries and 

 9           backpack programs are struggling to meet a 

10           growing demand.  

11                  AFSN joins the call to raise both 

12           budgets of Nourish New York and HPNAP to 

13           $75 million each and broaden the ability of 

14           local and direct contracts with these food 

15           pantries to ensure the food economy in our 

16           communities matches with our local farms.  

17           These programs place agriculture grown in our 

18           region back into our communities, supporting 

19           families and farmers in the process.  

20                  AFSN is excited to see a commitment to 

21           provide healthy and universal meals to our 

22           children in the Executive Budget, and we 

23           support continuing our Farm-to-School grants 

24           and 30 percent Farm-to-School reimbursement 


                                                                   190

 1           programs.  These programs provide critical 

 2           links between healthy food, our children, and 

 3           our farms.  

 4                  Additionally, these programs directly 

 5           incentivize and offset the cost of purchasing 

 6           local food for our regional children.  

 7                  We applaud recent efforts by the 

 8           administration and Legislature to support, 

 9           grow and sustain our farms, emergency 

10           feedings, local and regional food economies.  

11           The Adirondacks is often seen as the last 

12           mile of service, a place to visit but not to 

13           live.  But despite this, our communities are 

14           resilient and vibrant, and many people call 

15           these places home.  

16                  Thank you for your time, and I look 

17           forward to furthering these conversations.

18                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

19           much.  

20                  And our first questioner is 

21           Agriculture Chair Michelle Hinchey -- oh, 

22           sorry, everyone gets three minutes.  There's 

23           no special favors for the chairs or rankers 

24           anymore.


                                                                   191

 1                  (Laughter.)

 2                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  All right.  Thank 

 3           you so much, and thank you all for being here 

 4           and for your work.  

 5                  Josh, I appreciate the comments on 

 6           Nourish.  And I think it's important for 

 7           everyone to hear, you know, even if you live 

 8           in an agricultural community, that doesn't 

 9           mean that everyone who lives there then has 

10           access to the food that is grown just down 

11           the street.  

12                  And so things like the Nourish NY 

13           program, HPNAP, Double Up Food Bucks and the 

14           Farm-to-School program are really important 

15           to make sure we continue to fund -- like, 

16           adding breakfast to the Farm-to-School 

17           program would be a great place to start.  

18                  But I do have a couple of questions.  

19           First for NEDPA, you probably heard me talk 

20           earlier about the tax credit that we were 

21           hopeful would get done.  We were told it had 

22           to be in the budget.  We too were surprised 

23           to not see it in the Executive's budget.  

24                  How have the conversations been with 


                                                                   192

 1           Ag and Markets?  And does it seem like on 

 2           your end that you're close to coming up with 

 3           a solution like we just heard from the last 

 4           panel?  

 5                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Yeah, we've had -- 

 6           we have a great working relationship with Ag 

 7           and Markets and really appreciate their 

 8           team's efforts.  We've presented something 

 9           that we think could work, and from our 

10           understanding of the issues of what was 

11           presented last year, we think it could solve 

12           those problems.  

13                  We haven't received much feedback on 

14           that so far.  But we're, you know, ready and 

15           willing to continue those conversations.

16                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Great.  Well, and 

17           hopefully this will spark responses to that 

18           feedback so we can hopefully have an answer 

19           for that soon in our budget all going 

20           forward.  

21                  Also agree with everyone's comments on 

22           the Farmworker Housing and the Retention Tax 

23           Credit.  Those are really important programs 

24           and ones we could fund more.  


                                                                   193

 1                  Kyle, you mentioned -- I'm taking a 

 2           book from Senator Krueger here, or a page 

 3           from Senator Krueger here -- but you 

 4           mentioned in your comments about wine in 

 5           grocery stores.  I'm not taking a position on 

 6           that plan, but I'm curious how it would help 

 7           New York farmers and the New York wine 

 8           industry.

 9                  MR. WALLACH:  Sure.  A lot of our 

10           local New York wineries have trouble getting 

11           their products into liquor stores, and this 

12           would give them another avenue and another 

13           opportunity and a place with good foot 

14           traffic and good availability for them to 

15           sell their products.

16                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Do you think there 

17           should be specific language around promoting 

18           New York products specifically?  

19                  MR. WALLACH:  We would absolutely 

20           support that.

21                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  All right.  Thank 

22           you so much.  

23                  And then I would just like to kind of 

24           open the question in my last few seconds on 


                                                                   194

 1           what concerns anyone -- probably NEDPA and 

 2           Farm Bureau, but any -- NOFA as well -- 

 3           anybody on farmworkers and farmers, the 

 4           concerns they're hearing from changes at the 

 5           federal level as it pertains to farmworkers.

 6                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Yeah, this is a 

 7           really challenging question and something 

 8           that our farms are facing.  And I think, 

 9           quite frankly, workers are scared.  They 

10           don't know what's to come, and they don't 

11           know if their job and their world is secure.  

12                  So trying to get through 

13           misinformation and help them with facts and 

14           what they need to know for their rights is 

15           what we're focusing on.

16                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Thank you very much.

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

18                  Assembly.

19                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblywoman Donna 

20           Lupardo, chair of Agriculture.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Yes, thank 

22           you.  

23                  Senator Hinchey covered most of what I 

24           was about to take up, so thank you for 


                                                                   195

 1           highlighting, again, the housing revolving 

 2           loan and giving us an actual dollar figure to 

 3           handle the oversubscription.  You sort of ran 

 4           out of time.  I'd like to give you an 

 5           opportunity to finish discussing some 

 6           additional adds from -- from NEDPA.  NEDPA, 

 7           yes.

 8                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Regarding --

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Right, toward 

10           the end you were sort of -- ran --

11                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Toward the end I 

12           was talking about PRO-DAIRY's budget.  They 

13           have several new positions they would like to 

14           fill -- farm business specialist, dairy 

15           nutrition specialist, and animal well-being 

16           specialists, as well as some education -- 

17           outreach and extension funding that they 

18           could have bolstered to make sure their 

19           program is fully functioning and fully 

20           capable of seeing the benefits -- of farmers 

21           seeing the benefits of their work.

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  A PRO-DAIRY 

23           focus.  

24                  And Katie, I know you had a $200,000 


                                                                   196

 1           appropriation last year; you're looking for 

 2           250 this year.  You outlined some of the 

 3           things you wanted to do with that.  It's not 

 4           really going to take care of the federal 

 5           pause, which is likely a cut which is 

 6           impacting you on the Climate-Smart 

 7           Commodities Program, a subsection of that 

 8           having to do with marketing.  

 9                  Can you just explain in this last 

10           minute how you utilize those funds?  

11                  MS. BAILDON:  Sure.  So we're part of 

12           the regional project that's run by PASA in 

13           Pennsylvania, and it's called the Climate 

14           Smart Farming and Marketing Program.  And 

15           essentially it's providing technical 

16           assistance to farms that want to adopt NRCS 

17           climate-smart practices and offers them 

18           up-front funding to make some of those 

19           changes.  

20                  So we have a couple of staff right now 

21           that are helping with that project, and it's 

22           on pause, so we really don't know what's 

23           coming next.

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  The additional 


                                                                   197

 1           funding that you're asking for in this year's 

 2           budget, is it connected to that or is it more 

 3           about your infrastructure?

 4                  MS. BAILDON:  A little bit of both.  

 5                  So technical assistance on-farm is 

 6           something we've always offered.  We've been 

 7           building up our virtual technical assistance 

 8           offerings, and we would like to still have 

 9           capacity there for helping farms with 

10           climate-smart practices.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Gotcha.  Okay, 

12           thanks.

13                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Senator Borrello.

14                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Thank you, 

15           Madam Chair.  

16                  Thank you all for being here.  

17           Appreciate what you do for agriculture here 

18           in New York State.  

19                  I guess I'll start off with Allyson.  

20           I think in last year's budget there was 

21           $24 million to help with farm milk, fluid 

22           milk processing.  It was supposed to 

23           essentially improve a number of things 

24           including, you know, stabilizing that supply.  


                                                                   198

 1                  I know these things don't happen 

 2           overnight, but can you just kind of give us 

 3           an update as to where this is and if it's 

 4           been helping your members?  

 5                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  So that -- the 

 6           request for proposals is open right now, and 

 7           I believe those are due mid-February.  So 

 8           farms are undergoing the process of getting 

 9           their applications submitted.  

10                  So we don't know, really, what that 

11           will look like, if that will be 

12           oversubscribed, which is very likely, because 

13           the projects are often very expensive to 

14           undergo.  We don't know what kind of interest 

15           is fully out there, but I know a lot of our 

16           members were really excited about the program 

17           and looking forward to submitting 

18           applications.

19                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  You know, we always 

20           hear, you know, small dairy farms versus the 

21           big farms.  And, you know, I guess my concern 

22           is that 24 million is going to be gobbled up 

23           by the big farms.  

24                  Is there any guardrails that were put 


                                                                   199

 1           in place so that it would ensure that there 

 2           are small dairy farms that have access to 

 3           that as well?  

 4                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  I can't really 

 5           speak to that.  I'm not sure.

 6                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Okay.  So as of 

 7           right now, your members are in the process of 

 8           putting those RFPs in.

 9                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Yes.

10                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Okay.  Well, so 

11           hopefully that improves and those -- so would 

12           you say -- obviously you're afraid of it 

13           being oversubscribed.  So in this year's 

14           budget, then, you think perhaps another round 

15           would be helpful for additional funding?

16                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Yeah, definitely.  

17           I believe there was 10 million put in this 

18           year to fill out the program.  But if 

19           24 million in the first year isn't enough, 

20           then --

21                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  Yeah.  So we step 

22           it down pretty considerably for that second 

23           one, but it's still -- there's still money in 

24           the program for the second year.  Thank you.  


                                                                   200

 1                  And I would just -- to address a 

 2           little bit of the wine in grocery stores, you 

 3           know, it's a controversial topic.  And, you 

 4           know, I've been in the beverage/alcohol 

 5           business for 30-plus years, and I can tell 

 6           you that while I appreciate that I have a lot 

 7           of wineries and grape growers in my district, 

 8           when you go to grocery stores in other 

 9           states, you don't see local wines.  You see 

10           the big conglomerates.  You see the Barefoot 

11           and all these others.  

12                  So my question is, would you favor a 

13           restriction for only New York-based wines to 

14           be sold in grocery stores in New York State? 

15                  MR. WALLACH:  I mean, being New York 

16           Farm Bureau, yeah --

17                  (Laughter.)

18                  MR. WALLACH:  -- we're always going to 

19           support our local New York wines.

20                  SENATOR BORRELLO:  That's a softball 

21           question, but I think it speaks to the point 

22           that there's -- you know, I think there's 

23           very little chance, quite honestly, that 

24           you're going to see, you know, the local 


                                                                   201

 1           wines, which typically are a little more 

 2           expensive.  You're going to see those, you 

 3           know, Two-Buck Chuck things dominating the 

 4           shelves in New York grocery stores if we 

 5           don't put in some kind of guardrails to 

 6           ensure that our wineries and our farmers get 

 7           that.  

 8                  So thank you.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

10                  Assembly.

11                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblywoman 

12           Carrie Woerner.

13                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:  Thank you.  

14                  Kyle, you mentioned that one of the 

15           Farm Bureau's priorities is the low-carbon 

16           fuel standard bill.  Could you reflect on how 

17           that particular bill would be -- would 

18           benefit New York farmers?

19                  MR. WALLACH:  Sure.  So the low-carbon 

20           fuel standard we think would be a great way 

21           to help reach our climate goals while also 

22           being -- giving the opportunity for biofuel 

23           markets and other ways that agriculture can 

24           be part of this solution.


                                                                   202

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:  In specific, 

 2           are you talking about hard-to-electrify 

 3           vehicles like farm equipment being able to 

 4           use low-carbon fuels to reduce their carbon 

 5           footprint?  Or are you talking about farms 

 6           being able to generate electricity by 

 7           converting manure into first a gas and then 

 8           into electricity?  

 9                  MR. WALLACH:  I think there is 

10           opportunity for both, but specifically 

11           converting manure into electricity would be 

12           something that our membership would be 

13           interested in, and I think there is a lot of 

14           room there to grow that industry.

15                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:   Thank you 

16           very much.  For the -- and I'm so sorry, I 

17           forgot your name -- Northeast Dairy 

18           Producers, you talked about the need for -- 

19           and actually Kyle did as well -- for 

20           increasing the project cap from 200,000 to 

21           400,000 for farmworkers' housing.  

22                  Do you have some sense of what is the 

23           backlog of projects that are not getting done 

24           because the fund has been depleted as well as 


                                                                   203

 1           the cap is too low?  

 2                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  I don't have exact 

 3           numbers on that, but I know just from talking 

 4           to our membership there are many farms that 

 5           are interested in doing projects that would 

 6           fit in this revolving loan fund.  And if 

 7           they're not able to get traditional financing 

 8           for it or if it's not the highest priority on 

 9           their farm's project list, then it doesn't 

10           get done.  It gets pushed off.  

11                  So I think there would be a great 

12           need, a great interest if this were expanded 

13           to have more farms involved.  

14                  I do know that some of the farms that 

15           have done projects that is new housing for 

16           many -- for, you know, 20 or so staff 

17           members, they're looking at a million or 

18           slightly over a million dollars to build that 

19           housing.  And so that's kind of looking at 

20           that $200,000 cap -- the construction costs 

21           have gone up so much, and farms are looking 

22           to build larger housing units now.

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:   Right.  And 

24           access to traditional financing is limited.  


                                                                   204

 1           It was sort of implied in your answer.  Is 

 2           that correct?  

 3                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Yeah, I think they 

 4           just have to make decisions based on what 

 5           their priorities are, and that fits within 

 6           their traditional financing options.

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN WOERNER:   Great.  Thank 

 8           you very much.

 9                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

10                  Any more Senators?  Then I'm turning 

11           it back to the Assembly.

12                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Okay.  

13           Assemblymember Chris Tague, the ranker on 

14           Agriculture.

15                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:   Thank you, 

16           Mr. Chairman and Ms. Chairman.  

17                  I wanted to start off right from the 

18           beginning with Allyson.  If you could tell 

19           me, do you think that there would be an 

20           economic difference in agriculture if we 

21           legalized whole and 2 percent milk back in 

22           our schools?  

23                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Yeah, our members 

24           would definitely be in favor of that.  And 


                                                                   205

 1           really the science supports it in giving the 

 2           students choice to wholesome and nutritious 

 3           products.

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:   Well, I really 

 5           appreciate hearing that, because I've had a 

 6           bill for the last four years that just can't 

 7           seem to get out of committee for some reason.  

 8           But boy, everybody's in favor of it.  

 9           Hopefully this session we'll get it passed.  

10           But thank you very much.  

11                  Secondly, what I thought I would do is 

12           individually ask each one of you -- because 

13           we don't have much time -- but ask each one 

14           of you what is the biggest thing needed in 

15           this budget, and how much is needed to, you 

16           know, to make that work for you folks, I 

17           think is my question.  

18                  Although the budget's at $252 billion, 

19           I was a little saddened to see that the 

20           ag budget is knocked down by 7 million.  We 

21           seem to have money to spend in other areas, 

22           but agriculture is 7 million less than it was 

23           last year.  

24                  So I would like to hear from you folks 


                                                                   206

 1           what we need to make your operation 

 2           successful, and how much money do you need to 

 3           do it.  

 4                  MS. BAILDON:  Thanks for the question.  

 5           So in terms of NOFA's number-one priority for 

 6           the state budget this year, it is for our 

 7           line item for $250,000 that would really help 

 8           us to continue the work that the state's been 

 9           investing in over the past several years, 

10           increasing access to our services and our 

11           technical assistance capacity.

12                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  Thank you.  

13                  MR. WALLACH:  I think adding housing 

14           as an allowable expense to the refundable 

15           investment tax credit would be huge for us, 

16           as well as making sure that we don't let the 

17           Workforce Retention Tax Credit sunset.

18                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  I would agree that 

19           labor workforce retention and recruitment is 

20           the greatest need that our farms have, so 

21           increasing that revolving loan fund for 

22           housing would be a great addition, along with 

23           what Kyle had mentioned.

24                  MR. STEPHANI:  And I'll echo the same 


                                                                   207

 1           thing with worker retention as well as those 

 2           transition plans for farmers, as a lot of our 

 3           farmers are not only struggling with labor 

 4           and finding adequate labor for their farms, 

 5           but also being able to prepare for future 

 6           generations.

 7                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  Would all of you 

 8           agree with me that without any farms we don't 

 9           have any food?  

10                  (Laughter.)

11                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:   Thank you.  Thank 

12           you very much.

13                  (Laughter.)

14                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblywoman Anna 

15           Kelles.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Thank you so 

17           much.  

18                  One initial question.  Your 

19           experience, like from across the board, is 

20           that the Farmland Protection and Agricultural 

21           and On-Point programs and the Soil and Water 

22           Conservation programs are all overprescribed 

23           and underfunded?  Would you say that pretty 

24           consistently across the board?  


                                                                   208

 1                  Do you have a sense of how much money 

 2           would be needed to fully fund these to meet 

 3           the existing demand?  

 4                  MR. WALLACH:  I think -- I think we 

 5           would have to go back to the individual 

 6           districts and hear from them what, you know, 

 7           each district needs.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Are we getting 

 9           close?  Or are we like nowhere near what 

10           actually we need?  Because these can be used 

11           for capital improvements to address climate 

12           change issues.

13                  MR. WALLACH:  Yeah, I'm not sure how 

14           overprescribed they are.  I know they are, 

15           but I'm not sure by how much.

16                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Okay.  

17                  MS. BAILDON:  I have some numbers on 

18           that --

19                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Yeah.

20                  MS. BAILDON:  -- that I can follow up 

21           with.  I don't want to say them right now, 

22           just because I don't want to get it wrong, 

23           but I can follow up with you --

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Okay.


                                                                   209

 1                  MS. BAILDON:  -- on the Climate 

 2           Resilient Farming Program in particular.  

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Okay.  That 

 4           would be great.  

 5                  And a question about manure on farms.  

 6           What percentage do you think -- estimate -- 

 7           of farms in New York have biodigesters?  

 8                  MR. WALLACH:  We can get numbers.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  And what 

10           percentage of a farm's operating budget do 

11           you think are the fertilizer?  Is it a tiny 

12           small fraction, or is it a pretty big cost?  

13           The cost of fertilizer.

14                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  The cost of 

15           fertilizer, I think that varies by type of 

16           farm.  So those with animal agriculture are 

17           able to recycle nutrients and bring that cost 

18           down, but it still is a substantial cost to 

19           make sure they're putting the right nutrients 

20           on the right crops.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So it's the 

22           recycling of the manure that's really helping 

23           the cost come down, that particular cost.  

24                  I ask only in particular because if 


                                                                   210

 1           the manure is being used for other purposes 

 2           rather than being used in biodigesters, 

 3           creating biosolids that are really stable 

 4           molecular structures that then could be 

 5           tilled into the ground to bind with nitrogen 

 6           and phosphorous to retain those nutrients in 

 7           the soil and reduce runoff -- those things, 

 8           you know, significantly reduce the cost of 

 9           fertilizer.  

10                  They also, right, improve the 

11           stability and nutrient value of the soil.  

12           That would add, maybe -- give them funding in 

13           one direction but cost them money in other 

14           directions, right?  Potentially.

15                  MR. WALLACH:  I -- I don't want to say 

16           just because I'm not a hundred percent sure 

17           of the --

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  But then the 

19           manure would be diverted, and that would be 

20           true since it is used as a nutrient source 

21           right now.

22                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Typically there 

23           still is material that can be used as 

24           fertilizer in those processes even if it's 


                                                                   211

 1           used for another use first and then --

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  I say that 

 3           about fertilizers because they are both 

 4           petroleum based and very expensive.  So 

 5           having manure as a resource for nutrient 

 6           loading is a great use of it on-site on 

 7           farms.  Thanks.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 9                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblywoman Jodi 

10           Giglio.

11                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Yes.  Thank 

12           you.  

13                  I'd like to go back to the ag worker 

14           housing, because I know that there were a lot 

15           of grants that a lot of farmers utilized last 

16           year but they were unable -- they had to 

17           return the money, essentially, because the 

18           process in order to get permits for the 

19           upgraded sanitary systems and for 

20           enhancements to the buildings and creation of 

21           workforce housing, was just -- the time was 

22           too long and they couldn't meet the 

23           deadlines.  

24                  So I want to hear from you as to 


                                                                   212

 1           whether or not there is still tremendous need 

 2           for ag worker housing and enhancements to ag 

 3           worker housing that should be in the budget 

 4           and is not currently in the budget.

 5                  MR. WALLACH:  There is absolutely a 

 6           need for new farmworker housing as well as 

 7           updating farmworker housing that's existing.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Okay.  And did 

 9           you hear some of the same things when it came 

10           to the funding and whether or not any of the 

11           money that was returned is being 

12           reappropriated for grants for enhancements 

13           and upgrades?  

14                  MR. WALLACH:  I didn't hear 

15           specifically about funding that had to be 

16           returned.  But as far as the need for it, we 

17           have heard a lot of.  And as far as being 

18           able to fund that, it's a huge expense for 

19           any farm to take on.  So having funding 

20           opportunities is important.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Yeah, and I 

22           think so, too.  I think so that with the 

23           housing opportunities, that it also works 

24           towards the worker retention and knowing that 


                                                                   213

 1           they have a pillow to put their head on at 

 2           night.  

 3                  So if you could just chime in on that 

 4           a little bit, that would be great.

 5                  MR. WALLACH:  Absolutely.  Farmers 

 6           want their employees to have a comfortable, 

 7           safe place to live.  They make their best 

 8           efforts to do so, and, you know, we need to 

 9           help them how we can.

10                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  And I think 

11           there's a lot of choices for places to work.  

12           People could go work in a lot of different 

13           lines, and agriculture isn't always the most 

14           attractive, but we do -- our farmers do what 

15           they can to provide high-quality training, 

16           high-quality -- good salary, good benefits.  

17                  And one of those benefits is having 

18           housing near the farm and it being 

19           up-to-date, clean, and, like Kyle said, just 

20           a nice place that they have to go home.  It 

21           really helps in worker retention.

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN GIGLIO:  Thank you.

23                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  All right, we've 

24           completed the questioning.  Just 


                                                                   214

 1           double-checking.  

 2                  I want to thank you all very much for 

 3           your participation today, and you may have 

 4           followup questions from us later.  Thank you 

 5           very much.

 6                  MR. WALLACH:  Thank you.

 7                  MS. JONES-BRIMMER:  Thank you.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  And our next 

 9           panel -- if the American Society for the 

10           Prevention of Cruelty to Animals is here, 

11           please come down.  We don't think you checked 

12           in.  Humane Society of the United States, and 

13           New York State Animal Protection Federation.  

14                  Oh, good, so all three of you are 

15           here.  Great, okay.  Good.  

16                  Okay.  So we're going to start from my 

17           left with Libby -- oh, you want me to 

18           start -- is that Bill?  Okay, we're going to 

19           start from my right, your left:  Bill Ketzer 

20           first.

21                  MR. KETZER:  Good afternoon, 

22           everybody, and thank you very much for your 

23           time.  

24                  I'm Bill Ketzer.  I'm the senior 


                                                                   215

 1           legislative director for the American Society 

 2           for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.  

 3                  And as you've mentioned, you have my 

 4           written testimony, so I will keep my comments 

 5           brief and related to the Companion Animal 

 6           Protection Fund that's in the 

 7           Executive Budget proposal.  

 8                  I began my career in government about 

 9           25 years ago -- right here in this 

10           building -- as a policy analyst, and soon 

11           after I was doing agriculture policy.  Which, 

12           you know, most of you know, I think, includes 

13           animal welfare policy.  

14                  In that era, New York was definitely 

15           behind the curve when compared to other 

16           states in the northeast when it came to 

17           animal sheltering.  We were definitely seeing 

18           improvements at that time -- better access in 

19           funding for spay and neuter programs for 

20           example, more effective working relationships 

21           between shelters and rescue organizations.  

22                  But ultimately, at the end of the day, 

23           the goal was to be able to get them to 

24           drastically reduce euthanasia and increase 


                                                                   216

 1           liabilities rates.  That was the name of the 

 2           game at the time.  

 3                  But there was very minimal oversight 

 4           of animal shelters, and absolutely no 

 5           oversight of animal rescue organizations.  In 

 6           fact, no one could even tell you how many 

 7           there were or what they did or where they got 

 8           their animals from.  We just had no -- simply 

 9           no idea as policy people.  

10                  You changed that in 2017 by passing a 

11           law to create a registry for these entities 

12           so that we could know.  And this was the same 

13           year that you established the first Companion 

14           Animal Capital Fund, the first of its kind in 

15           the nation -- and still is, to my 

16           knowledge -- and currently it provides $33 

17           million to support capital projects for more 

18           than 70 animal shelters thus far.  

19                  And that in turn helped generate 

20           support for another thing New York didn't 

21           have, which was uniform peer-reviewed 

22           facility standards in law for the 

23           400 not-for-profit organizations and 

24           municipal entities providing sheltering 


                                                                   217

 1           services in every region of the state every 

 2           single day.  

 3                  You passed this law in 2022, and it 

 4           goes into effect in December of this year.  

 5           That's why we are asking you not only to 

 6           support Governor Hochul's $5 million 

 7           Executive Budget proposal for that fund, but 

 8           we ask that you renew your commitment with a 

 9           legacy allocation of $5 million, in addition 

10           to the Governor's 5 million, bringing the 

11           fund to a total of $10 million.  The 

12           outstanding capital need is still well over 

13           $77 million as we look towards the standards 

14           being implemented at the end of the year.  

15                  And finally, I just want to say thank 

16           you for all of that good work.  That can't be 

17           understated.  It's like night and day from 

18           the time I was sitting behind you as a 

19           staffer, so thank you very much.

20                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  (Inaudible.)

21                  MR. SHAPIRO:  Thank you so much.  My 

22           name's Brian Shapiro.  I'm the New York 

23           director for the Humane Society of the 

24           United States.  


                                                                   218

 1                  I would like to thank everyone here 

 2           for all of the work over the past few years 

 3           really putting shelter issues and animal 

 4           protection at the forefront.  

 5                  I'm the New York state director, but 

 6           when I go to our national conferences, 

 7           everyone is absolutely wowed and floored at 

 8           what we've been able to accomplish.  And many 

 9           of you who are in leadership positions here 

10           have helped us get those bills and those 

11           budget measures over the finish line.  

12                  I'm here with my wonderful colleagues 

13           to ask for support for the Companion Animal 

14           Capital Fund, which is a very popular program 

15           which helps to boost and bolster our animal 

16           shelters with capital improvement programs 

17           for matching grants.  

18                  In my years of lobbying I have seen 

19           photographs and heard many stories of the 

20           wonderful animals that many of you have 

21           adopted from shelters, but shelters provide 

22           so much more than just adoptions.  You have 

23           surrenders.  You have pet retention programs, 

24           food pantries for the duly incorporated 


                                                                   219

 1           humane societies and SPCAs, you have Humane 

 2           Law enforcement, low-cost spay and neuter, 

 3           and the list goes on.  

 4                  These are essential services.  And 

 5           unless we have the infrastructure where our 

 6           shelters can operate effectively, we would 

 7           not have these programs.  Again, these are 

 8           essential services that are very important to 

 9           members of the community.  

10                  I recall when I was the shelter 

11           director in Ulster County for many years, 

12           just fretting over where's the money going to 

13           come from for new kennel doors, to replace 

14           pipes that have been decades old.  So we are 

15           asking for $5 million combined from the 

16           Legislature to match what the Governor has 

17           kindly put in, for a total of $10 million.  

18                  Additionally, I want to express 

19           support for an Animal Crimes Fund.  There 

20           currently is a process that impounding 

21           agencies, Humane Law, can take advantage of 

22           to get reimbursed for the cost of holding 

23           onto live evidence.  

24                  But I will say this, there are no 


                                                                   220

 1           other examples where a not-for-profit -- it's 

 2           the not-for-profit's responsibility to hold 

 3           onto evidence in criminal court cases, and 

 4           often not get reimbursed for that.  It's 

 5           crazy, quite frankly.  

 6                  So we are asking for support for an 

 7           Animal Crimes Fund.  The bonding process 

 8           works, but it doesn't always work.  I've seen 

 9           cases where we have judges in rural parts of 

10           the state, and they have no idea about this.  

11           And sometimes the shelters are very lucky if 

12           they can get a DA to assist with that.  

13                  I see time is running out.  I just 

14           want to also give a tip of the hat to 

15           Chair Pretlow for his work on the 

16           horse issues, with horse slaughter, and the 

17           issue you mentioned.  We are following it and 

18           interested in talking with you more about 

19           that.  

20                  Thank you so much for your time.  

21                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

22                  Libby Post, New York State Animal 

23           Protection Federation.

24                  MS. POST:  Good afternoon.  


                                                                   221

 1                  I just wanted to say, first, todah 

 2           rabah to Senator Krueger for mentioning that 

 3           it's Holocaust Memorial Day.  

 4                  And also a very hearty mazel tov to 

 5           Assemblymember Pretlow for becoming the new 

 6           chair of the Ways and Means Committee.  So 

 7           it's a really -- you know, it's a great 

 8           thing.  

 9                  So, yes, we also want to see 

10           $5 million from the Legislature for the 

11           Companion Animal Capital Fund.  We've all 

12           seen the good this money has done across the 

13           state.  We're going to have at least 

14           50 applicants for the RFP that is due at the 

15           end of this month.  

16                  Now, when you look at the budget 

17           you're going to see reapprops after reapprops 

18           after reapprops, and I'm asking you not to 

19           hold that against giving us more money, 

20           because -- we can all laugh about this -- as 

21           we know, and as the Comptroller's office put 

22           out in a recent report, the contracts are not 

23           being let quickly.  The RFP from January of 

24           2024, those contracts will hopefully be 


                                                                   222

 1           executed by the Comptroller's office this 

 2           week, okay?  

 3                  So that money is going to be spent, 

 4           and we need it to -- I just don't want it to 

 5           be held against us that that money isn't 

 6           being spent out even though the awards have 

 7           been made.  

 8                  The other thing is is that -- and the 

 9           commissioner mentioned this, SFS, the State 

10           Financial System, it has been a virtual 

11           nightmare for my members.  And they had to 

12           expand the deadline for the RFP that's due at 

13           the end of the month almost 25 days because 

14           of the problems everyone was having with SFS.  

15           And so if there's anything you guys can do 

16           about that, that would be great.  

17                  In terms of the Animal Crimes Fund, we 

18           asked about this -- we mentioned this last 

19           year.  You all remember the Times Union story 

20           of the horrific rescue, there were 100 

21           animals in a house.  It cost Mohawk Hudson 

22           $300,000 to care for those animals in just 

23           the first month alone.  

24                  And we have this rolling Animal Crime 


                                                                   223

 1           Survey that we do.  Of the 28 cases that have 

 2           been reported, the cost of care was over 

 3           $604,000.  The shelters only recouped 

 4           109,000, which is 18 percent of the total 

 5           cost.  

 6                  And so we are asking the Legislature 

 7           for a $2.5 million Animal Crimes Fund that 

 8           would help defray these costs as a -- it 

 9           wouldn't be a grant, but it would be a 

10           reimbursement program.  

11                  And it really is very, very important, 

12           because it is costing the shelters more and 

13           more money.  And with the Companion Animal 

14           Care Standards Act coming into effect at the 

15           end of this year, we're going to see even 

16           more of a need.  So, please. 

17                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Perfect timing.  

18           Thank you.  

19                  Questions from the Senate?  Everyone 

20           was very articulate.  

21                  Questions from the Assembly?  Oh, I'm 

22           sorry, and you have another Assemblywoman 

23           down there.

24                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Okay.  


                                                                   224

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 2                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Donna?

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Yes.  

 4                  Thank you for being here.  Understand 

 5           what you're saying about increasing the 

 6           funding.  Let me -- why have the funds not 

 7           been spent out?  You kind of breezed through 

 8           that.

 9                  MS. POST:  That's a really good 

10           question.  The money has been awarded, okay, 

11           year after year.  Some of the money has been 

12           totally expended out.  But like as an 

13           example, the money that was awarded in 

14           January of 2024, awarded -- you know, oh, 

15           you're going to get this grant -- the grants 

16           are just being executed hopefully this week. 

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Oh, I see.  

18           Bureaucratic doings.

19                  MS. POST:  It's -- right.  

20                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Gotcha.

21                  MS. POST:  It's not the shelters' 

22           faults.  It's the process.  

23                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  And then you 

24           mentioned about the need for the Animal 


                                                                   225

 1           Crimes Fund.  You talked about one case, and 

 2           you said that they had eventually recouped 

 3           some funding.  Who did they recoup it from? 

 4                  MS. POST:  So there's a -- the 

 5           mechanism is a security bond posting 

 6           mechanism that Brian talked about where you 

 7           can go and ask the judge in the case to tell 

 8           the perpetrator of the animal crime to either 

 9           give up their animals or they have to pay.  

10                  That doesn't always work.  The lawyers 

11           have been very good at going around the 

12           process and not getting the money to the 

13           shelters, that they're not being paid for it.  

14           And many times there is no restitution.  

15                  Many times there's just -- there's no 

16           security bond posting, DAs don't want to do 

17           it on behalf of the shelters even though 

18           they're holding the animals for criminal 

19           cases.  But still they're saying, Oh, you've 

20           got to find your own lawyer.  So here, the 

21           shelter's got to pay for the care plus that, 

22           right?  So they're just not doing it.  

23                  And it would be much better if there 

24           was a dedicated fund to help reimburse the 


                                                                   226

 1           shelters for these costs, because they're 

 2           astronomical and they're just going up. 

 3                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Gotcha.  Thank 

 4           you. 

 5                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblywoman Anna 

 6           Kelles. 

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Thank you so 

 8           much.  

 9                  Two questions, one multipart.  But 

10           about the Companion Animal Capital Fund, what 

11           would make that easier to get that money out 

12           the door?  Is there anything that we can do 

13           to make that easier to get out the door? 

14                  MS. POST:  I don't pretend to be an 

15           expert in how the state financial system 

16           works in total. 

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  The things that 

18           people are finding to be barriers. 

19                  MS. POST:  It's really about making 

20           sure that the various entities that have to 

21           approve this do it in a timely manner, and 

22           that there's staffing in all the various 

23           offices that need to do it.  

24                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Gotcha.  And 


                                                                   227

 1           about --

 2                  MS. POST:  Without throwing anyone 

 3           under the bus. 

 4                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Absolutely.  

 5                  About the second fund, the Crime -- 

 6           Animal Crime Fund, I think that -- 

 7                  MS. POST:  Yeah.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  I'm not sure 

 9           I'm getting the name right.  

10                  Do we know what the total cost is?  Do 

11           you have any estimate?  I saw in your 

12           presentation there was a total of I think 

13           883,000 just from last year were the amounts 

14           of money that it cost.  You're asking for 

15           2.5, but then I saw all of these amounts 

16           throughout that were like 1.7 million, you 

17           know, 1.5 million.  

18                  It seems like 2.5 million won't even 

19           cover remotely the cost of taking care of -- 

20           and all the criminal -- trying to recoup the 

21           costs that they're putting into it.  So I'm 

22           trying to rectify all of that. 

23                  MS. POST:  Well, I think that the 

24           2.5 million is a place to start.  As I said, 


                                                                   228

 1           our rolling Animal Crimes Fund -- and I don't 

 2           get all the information from everybody.  I'm 

 3           not getting a lot of information from 

 4           municipal shelters about their costs of 

 5           holding live evidence.  But right now, from 

 6           2021, it's over $600,000.  I know it's much 

 7           more than that, because we're not getting all 

 8           the information.  

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Has it put any 

10           of these shelters out of business? 

11                  MS. POST:  Has it put them out of 

12           business?  No, it's made them have to go and 

13           fundraise to cover these costs.  

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  And have there 

15           been cases where animals have not been -- 

16           have been turned away, there wasn't any 

17           entity to take care of them and they've been 

18           euthanized instead? 

19                  MS. POST:  There have been cases where 

20           shelters are no longer entertaining municipal 

21           contracts and are no longer working with 

22           local law enforcement because it's too 

23           expensive and they're not getting any money 

24           back. 


                                                                   229

 1                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  And so local 

 2           law enforcement will still then have these 

 3           cases, but then where do those animals go? 

 4                  MS. POST:  I don't -- I can't tell you 

 5           that.  

 6                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So no one 

 7           knows.

 8                  MS. POST:  Yeah.

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So they may be 

10           more traumatized --

11                  MS. POST:  Mm-hmm.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  -- and in a 

13           worse situation, even though they've been 

14           taken away.  And if they're in a really bad 

15           traumatized situation, they need tremendous 

16           veterinary care, as Anir {ph} mentioned, 

17           correct? 

18                  MS. POST:  There's another bill that's 

19           going to come up that's not fiscal, called 

20           the Civil Remedies bill.  So that we can get 

21           hoarders, the mentally ill, seniors who get 

22           over their heads, out of the criminal justice 

23           system and into the civil part of 

24           Supreme Court, where a judge will just say 


                                                                   230

 1           you can't -- after a process, you have to 

 2           relinquish your animals, they go to the 

 3           shelters, the shelters can turn them right 

 4           around, vet them, care for them, and get them 

 5           out the door through adoptions, instead of 

 6           having to hold them as live evidence. 

 7                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Thank you.

 8                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  We have to cut 

 9           this conversation off, sorry.  There's one 

10           more Assemblymember. 

11                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblyman Chris 

12           Tague. 

13                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:   Thank you.  Thank 

14           you.  

15                  First of all, Bill, Brian and Libby, 

16           thank you for the work that you folks do.  

17           Near and dear to my heart.  I have worked 

18           with Libby on a lot of cases.  And that's 

19           kind of what I wanted to ask Libby.  I don't 

20           know if -- I just want to make sure that my 

21           colleagues here understand what you folks go 

22           through and what you do in our communities 

23           all across New York State protecting animals 

24           and animal rights.  


                                                                   231

 1                  So I thought maybe in the two minutes 

 2           and 35 seconds that I have on the record, if 

 3           you could explain to my colleagues exactly 

 4           some of the situations that you and your 

 5           folks have come into and the reason why this 

 6           is so important. 

 7                  MS. POST:  Sure.  In 2021, 

 8           Hudson Valley Humane Society, there was 

 9           24 huskies and husky-mix adult dogs that were 

10           removed from a small home.  They cared for 

11           them for 18 months at a cost of over 

12           $334,000.  

13                  There have been hoarding situations.  

14           Erie County SPCA, 39 small dogs were found 

15           matted and in need of extensive medical and 

16           dental care.  It was in their care for seven 

17           and a half months, $27,000.  

18                  Lollypop Farms, 65 cats, in 2024, from 

19           an unsanitary cat rescue.  I don't know if 

20           they were registered or not.  They were there 

21           for 70 days, cost Lollypop almost $69,000.  

22           They got $3100 back in restitution.  

23                  These are the kinds of cases that we 

24           see over and over and over again.  And the 


                                                                   232

 1           shelters have to raise the money 

 2           philanthropically.  And, you know, it's great 

 3           that there are so many people who love what 

 4           the shelters are doing and recognize their 

 5           importance and will give money.  But still, 

 6           it's not easy to raise that money when it's 

 7           not -- when it really should be coming from 

 8           government to help offset those costs.  

 9                  So there's lots of different -- and 

10           honestly, I need to give you guys -- and I 

11           don't know how to do this -- updated 

12           testimony, because I have new information.  

13           So I'd like to -- I'll just get it to 

14           everybody on each of the committees.  Because 

15           I have new -- I got more updated information 

16           since I submitted the testimony on Friday.  

17                  And I also would like to just take the 

18           chance to thank Senator Hinchey, 

19           Assemblymember Lupardo, Chris Tague, 

20           Assemblymember Tague, you know, for all the 

21           work that they've done and how supportive 

22           they've been for the Companion Animal Capital 

23           Fund and for the shelters in the State of 

24           New York.  It really -- it has made a 


                                                                   233

 1           difference.  

 2                  And the fact that the three of us work 

 3           together so well is why we have gotten so 

 4           much done for companion animals in New York.  

 5           And, you know, people think, Oh, New York, 

 6           you guys don't get along.  Well, we do.  And 

 7           it's made a big, big difference.  

 8                  (Inaudible comment from dais.)

 9                  MS. POST:  Yeah, well, you know how it 

10           is.  Talk to my neighbor from Missouri.

11                  (Laughter.) 

12                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  (Inaudible.)  You 

13           can adjust your testimony by submitting it to 

14           the same email site --

15                  MS. POST:  Same thing?  Okay.

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  -- that you 

17           submitted your testimony to.

18                  MS. POST:  Right.  Thank you.

19                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.  

20                  And then thank you, all three, for 

21           joining us today.  

22                  And I'm going to call out the last 

23           panel for this afternoon -- trust me, this 

24           will be the only budget hearing that ends in 


                                                                   234

 1           the afternoon:  Parks & Trails New York, 

 2           American Farmland Trust, and Scenic Hudson.  

 3                  Good afternoon.  Which order -- do you 

 4           have a preference? 

 5                  MR. COTÉ:  As you like. 

 6                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Well, then, we'll 

 7           start with my left, your right.  Hello.  

 8                  MR. COTÉ:  Good afternoon.  Thank you 

 9           for the opportunity to speak with you all 

10           today.  I'm really excited it's this early.  

11                  My name is Will Coté.  I'm senior 

12           director of public lands at Parks & Trails 

13           New York.  PT&Y is New York's leading 

14           advocate for our public lands, parks, 

15           historic sites, greenways and open spaces.  

16                  In the 40 years since our founding, we 

17           have strived to improve our health, economy 

18           and quality of life through the use and 

19           enjoyment of our iconic public lands.  

20                  And it's with this core mission in 

21           mind that I'd like to encourage you all to 

22           support the Governor's proposal of 

23           $200 million in capital funding for 

24           State Parks.  As you heard the interim 


                                                                   235

 1           commissioner mention, we have record 

 2           visitation this year reaching 88 million, 

 3           which is the twelfth straight year of 

 4           increased visitation, and this capital 

 5           funding is essential to make our park system 

 6           accessible, welcoming, and as pleasant an 

 7           experience as possible, and also to chip away 

 8           at the $2 billion backlog that exists in the 

 9           parks system.  

10                  After the successful centennial 

11           celebration last year, I think we should also 

12           anticipate additional visitation in 2025.  

13           And as Assemblymember Kim, Chair Kim 

14           mentioned, continued investment delivers 

15           profound benefits statewide because the park 

16           system is an economic powerhouse, with every 

17           1 million invested yielding 10 million in 

18           sales, 4 million in labor income, and 

19           7 million in state GDP.  And to put it in 

20           perspective, this is now on par with the 

21           agricultural sector.  

22                  Turning to the Environmental 

23           Protection Fund, I'm going to stand with many 

24           of my colleagues over the next couple of 


                                                                   236

 1           nights calling for an increase in the 

 2           Environmental Protection Fund to 

 3           $500 million.  The real estate transfer tax 

 4           is a reliable revenue stream, with over 

 5           $1 billion collected in 2024 alone.  With 

 6           uncertainty surrounding federal leadership on 

 7           environmental protection, this is a pivotal 

 8           moment to demonstrate New York's 

 9           nation-leading commitment to environmental 

10           stewardship and broader liveability here in 

11           New York State, not to mention that it would 

12           help rectify the gap between available 

13           funding and the oversubscription to nearly 

14           all EPF programs that benefit every corner of 

15           the state.  

16                  Two examples to that point.  I ask 

17           that you increase the Park and Trail 

18           Partnership Grant program within the EPF to 

19           $4 million from its $2.5 million allocation 

20           proposed by the Governor.  Since 2015, this 

21           program has awarded $10 million to 

22           24 projects across the state, leveraging 

23           nearly $5 million in private funding.  How 

24           much more impactful could this program be if 


                                                                   237

 1           we didn't have to deny half the applications 

 2           we receive each year.  

 3                  Another example is the Connect Kids to 

 4           Parks program, which since 2016 has enabled 

 5           800,000 children to come to the outdoors, 

 6           those opportunities to visit public lands and 

 7           engage in meaningful scientific, historic, 

 8           cultural programming.  

 9                  Since the program has grown by 

10           500 percent since 2021, expanding that 

11           program to 5 million and allowing 

12           250,000 more students the opportunity to 

13           directly connect with nature and experience 

14           our state's best science classroom seems like 

15           a wise investment.  

16                  With 12 seconds left, I'm going to go 

17           off-course a little bit here and say that I 

18           strongly encourage you all to dedicate an 

19           extra 10 million in DEC's capital funding in 

20           this year's budget.  It's important that we 

21           expand accessibility to all of our public 

22           lands.  Users don't differentiate between 

23           parks or DEC properties.  They just want 

24           outdoor recreation.


                                                                   238

 1                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Next?

 2                  MS. FRACCAROLLI:  Hi.  Good afternoon.  

 3           My name is Carli Fraccarolli.  I want to 

 4           thank Chairs Pretlow and Krueger, 

 5           Chairs Hinchey and Lupardo, Chairs Serrano 

 6           and Kim -- who I do not see but still 

 7           appreciate -- ranking members of both 

 8           committees, and members of the Joint 

 9           Legislative Budget Committee for the 

10           opportunity to testify today.  

11                  This is my first time testifying in my 

12           five years at Scenic Hudson, so I'm really 

13           excited about this opportunity.  

14                  I'm the government relations manager 

15           for Scenic Hudson.  And if you're not 

16           familiar with our organization, Scenic Hudson 

17           is a land trust and environmental advocacy 

18           organization.  We're the largest 

19           environmental organization in the 

20           Hudson Valley.  

21                  We've created over 45 parks and, since 

22           1992, we've protected almost 23,000 acres of 

23           farmland on 150 family farms.   And we work 

24           really closely with farmers and partners like 


                                                                   239

 1           Cornell Cooperative Extension and Soil and 

 2           Water Conservation Districts to provide 

 3           technical and financial assistance to 

 4           farmers, conserve farmland, and connect 

 5           people with fresh, local food.  

 6                  So you'll see that my written 

 7           testimony identifies key areas in the 

 8           proposed state budget that will meaningfully 

 9           support Scenic Hudson's efforts to advance 

10           the state's agricultural and open space and 

11           environmental goals in the Hudson Valley and 

12           beyond.  So with that said, I want to use my 

13           time today to flag a particularly impactful 

14           program that Scenic Hudson feels would merit 

15           your further attention.  

16                  So we are encouraging the Legislature 

17           to increase the allocation for the Climate 

18           Resilient Farming program within the 

19           Environmental Protection Fund to $33 million 

20           in your one-house budgets.  And that would be 

21           up from the Governor's proposed 

22           $15.25 million.  And we're asking this, like 

23           Will said, in the context of our ask in 

24           partnership with a coalition of environmental 


                                                                   240

 1           organizations to increase the EPF to 

 2           $500 million.  

 3                  The reason we're advocating for an 

 4           increase in funding for the Climate Resilient 

 5           Farming program this year is that last year 

 6           the New York State Department of Ag and 

 7           Markets received an infusion of funds from 

 8           USDA's Partnerships for Climate Smart 

 9           Commodities grant to expand the New York 

10           Climate Resilient Farming program.  And 

11           because of this, Ag and Markets was able to 

12           disburse approximately $33 million in grants 

13           to farmers implementing regenerative 

14           agricultural and farming practices and 

15           reducing on-farm carbon emissions.  

16                  But even though the funds available 

17           for climate resilient farming programs and 

18           projects were more than doubled with this 

19           boost provided from the federal funding, the 

20           one-time grant, the program was still not 

21           able to fulfill every funding request, the 

22           total of which we believe totaled 

23           approximately $49 million.  

24                  So we are respectfully submitting that 


                                                                   241

 1           $33 million should be the new floor for the 

 2           climate resilient funding program, given the 

 3           amount of funding requests, potential future 

 4           lack of federal funding, and the fact that 

 5           $33 million was put directly to work on farms 

 6           to fund practices that made positive impacts 

 7           for both the climate and the farms and 

 8           farmers themselves.  

 9                  Thank you. 

10                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  {Mic off.}

11                  MR. MANGANO:  Good day, everyone.  

12           Thank you so much for the opportunity to 

13           testify today.  

14                  My name is Julian Mangano, and I'm the 

15           New York policy manager for American Farmland 

16           Trust, the nation's leading conservation 

17           organization dedicated to protecting 

18           farmland, promoting sustainable practices, 

19           and supporting farmers.  

20                  New York's farmland anchors an 

21           $85.8 billion farm and food economy 

22           supporting nearly 300,000 jobs across over 

23           6 million acres and over 30,000 farms.  

24           However, this vital resource is under threat.  


                                                                   242

 1           From 2017 to 2022, New York lost nearly 

 2           364,000 acres of farmland.  At this rate, we 

 3           risk losing another 452,000 acres by 2040, 

 4           jeopardizing 2500 farms and 7,000 jobs.  

 5                  To sustain New York's agriculture and 

 6           address urgent challenges like food security 

 7           and climate change, I urge the Legislature to 

 8           act on the following priorities.  For 

 9           farmland protection, raise the Farmland 

10           Protection budget to $25 million within a 

11           $500 million Environment Protection fund.  

12           This investment will safeguard farmland, 

13           support farm transitions, and promote 

14           climate-smart agriculture.  

15                  We'd also like for an additional 

16           $10 million in EPF funding to support the 

17           Article VII Part OO amendments to the 

18           Executive Budget.  To support transitioning 

19           and beginning farmers, we'd like to see 

20           Farmland for a New Generation be funded at 

21           $1 million.  Right now, with 60 percent of 

22           New York producers over age 55, and 

23           90 percent lacking transition plans, this 

24           increase in funding is critical to addressing 


                                                                   243

 1           the demand to support farmland transition.  

 2                  As Senator Hinchey has mentioned 

 3           multiple times today, for Farm-to-School 

 4           programs we'd like to include breakfast in 

 5           the 30 percent initiative to make it more 

 6           administratively feasible for schools to 

 7           participate and increase local food purchases 

 8           statewide.  

 9                  We'd also like the maintaining of 

10           funding for Farm-to-School grant programs to 

11           strengthen farm-to-institution connections 

12           and improve student access to nutritious 

13           meals, following the lead of 

14           Governor Hochul's support for universal 

15           school meals for all.  

16                  For enhancing climate resilience, we 

17           would like to see an expansion in programs 

18           that support conservation practices like 

19           cover cropping and reduced tillage to combat 

20           climate change, improve soil health and 

21           preserve farmland.  And we would also like to 

22           see an integration of AFT smart-solar 

23           principles to prevent farmland loss while 

24           supporting renewable energy development.  


                                                                   244

 1                  And lastly, we'd like to see the 

 2           deployment of the $150 million allocated in 

 3           the Environmental Bond Act for farmland 

 4           protection, ensuring these resources directly 

 5           contribute to long-term viability of 

 6           New York's agriculture.  New York's farmland 

 7           fuels our economy, feeds our communities, and 

 8           combats climate change.  By prioritizing 

 9           farmland protection and agricultural 

10           initiatives in this Executive Budget and the 

11           one-house budgets, we can secure a thriving 

12           and equitable food system for our future 

13           generations.  

14                  Thank you for your time and continued 

15           support for these critical issues. 

16                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you very 

17           much.  

18                  Any questions from the Senate?  

19                  Michelle Hinchey.  

20                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Hi, everyone.  Thank 

21           you so much for being here and for all of 

22           your work.  

23                  First, to Julian, thank you for 

24           flagging the Farm-to-School programs among 


                                                                   245

 1           all of the important programs that you've 

 2           cited.  Can you also talk about why 

 3           increasing the cents from 19 to 25 cents 

 4           would be important, how that would be 

 5           impactful? 

 6                  MR. MANGANO:  Yes.  So to my 

 7           understanding, like, local food procurement 

 8           could cost a little bit more than the SYSCO 

 9           food and just general, like, food we can get 

10           throughout the nation.  So that additional 

11           reimbursement of 6 cents from the 19 cents 

12           will help just assist the school budgets and 

13           increase their capacity to --

14                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  -- to actually make 

15           it possible to buy farm fresh food --

16                  MR. MANGANO:  Yes.

17                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  -- into the schools 

18           for all those programs. 

19                  MR. MANGANO:  Precisely.

20                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Great.  So yes, that 

21           nominal cent increase feels important.  

22                  You mentioned also smart-solar 

23           principles from AFT.  Can you talk a little 

24           bit about those? 


                                                                   246

 1                  MR. MANGANO:  So currently we're 

 2           working on defining a definition for 

 3           agrivoltaic so it can be included with Ag and 

 4           Markets.  And we're hoping to have that put 

 5           forward.  We have a draft.  We're in 

 6           discussion right now to get that moving.  And 

 7           that is what I have at the moment. 

 8                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Great.  Well, we 

 9           look forward to seeing those, because 

10           we've -- obviously there's all that confusion 

11           about what agrivoltaics mean, and dual use.  

12           And is it -- sheep grazing, does that count 

13           as agriculture?  Where sometimes there's a 

14           lot of loopholes that solar developers use to 

15           be able to continue to move forward on a 

16           program that doesn't actually maintain the 

17           ability and access to farming on prime 

18           farmland.  

19                  So thank you for that.  

20                  For Carli and Scenic Hudson, could you 

21           talk a little bit -- and my colleague 

22           Senator Fahy might mention this, but can you 

23           talk a little bit about the farmland 

24           preservation efforts that you're working on 


                                                                   247

 1           and what we could be doing better in that 

 2           space? 

 3                  MS. FRACCAROLLI:  Yeah.  So like I 

 4           said, we partner with farms to put 

 5           conservation easements on their farms so that 

 6           they're preserved in perpetuity so that we 

 7           don't lose any more farmland.  I think -- 

 8                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  Would you say we 

 9           have a lot -- where a lot of farmland is at 

10           risk of being lost today? 

11                  MS. FRACCAROLLI:  Yeah, we are seeing 

12           farmland being lost every year, 

13           unfortunately.  And we're also losing farmers 

14           themselves; they're aging out of being 

15           farmers.  

16                  So I think having a system in place to 

17           be able to keep farmland in farming for 

18           future generations of farmers, and also 

19           making sure that there's funding available 

20           for these farmers to conserve their land, is 

21           really important and something that we can 

22           definitely utilize at Scenic Hudson. 

23                  SENATOR HINCHEY:  All right, thank 

24           you.  Yeah, I mean, we were talking up here 


                                                                   248

 1           before about the fires happening in 

 2           California and have for the last number of 

 3           years.  We've all been talking about the 

 4           importance of New York ag land and how we are 

 5           going to be the breadbasket of our country 

 6           once again.  And so it's incumbent that we 

 7           fund all of these programs and do a lot more 

 8           to make sure we have our farmland protected.  

 9                  Thank you. 

10                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblywoman 

11           Lupardo.

12                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Sure, thank 

13           you.  Thank you for being here.  

14                  Julian, a quick question.  You quickly 

15           said that you were supporting the Article VII 

16           changes, Part OO.  Is that where the Governor 

17           adds urban agriculture and regional system  

18           support to current farmland protection 

19           activities? 

20                  MR. MANGANO:  There is that part of 

21           the amendment.  But just holistically, as the 

22           amendment is written, there is no true, like, 

23           fiscal designations.  So we're just inserting 

24           that at least 10 million for those programs 


                                                                   249

 1           should be instituted.

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  And could you 

 3           just remind us -- I know you're calling for a 

 4           500 million EPF.  But what did the 

 5           Governor -- what does the Governor have in 

 6           the budget to start with?

 7                  MR. MANGANO:  Four hundred million.

 8                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN LUPARDO:  Four hundred 

 9           million.  And you're looking to supplement 

10           the climate resiliency and soil health from 

11           that additional funding.  Because it looks 

12           more than likely the funding has been put on 

13           pause.  

14                  Senator Hinchey and I worked very hard 

15           years ago to create the soil health standards 

16           through that legislation and have been very 

17           proud that it's been funded on a regular 

18           basis.  It's interesting to find out that it 

19           was supplemented to that extent by federal 

20           dollars that are likely to go away.  I would 

21           hate to go backwards on that important 

22           program, so I appreciate your highlighting 

23           it.  

24                  Thank you very much.  I'm good.


                                                                   250

 1                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Senate?  

 2                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  I'm sorry.  Any 

 3           other Assemblymembers?  

 4                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  I have two more. 

 5                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Two more?  Oh, 

 6           keep going. 

 7                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  Assemblyman Chris 

 8           Tague.

 9                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  Thank you, sir.  

10                  Julian, my question's for you.  And it 

11           was brought up during this -- you know, the 

12           turnover of farms.  But my understanding is 

13           that American Farmland Trust actually has a 

14           program where you bring in young folks who 

15           maybe were not grown up -- did not grow up on 

16           a farm, and you try to match them with a 

17           retiring farm whose kids or loved ones are 

18           not interested in farming.  

19                  Is that program still in place? 

20                  MR. MANGANO:  Yes.  I mentioned in my 

21           testimony that we would like to actually 

22           increase the funding for that program from 

23           700,000 to a million, just so we can have a 

24           more robust impact with our regional 


                                                                   251

 1           navigators and enhance that connection 

 2           between the transitioning and new and 

 3           beginning farmers.  

 4                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  The other thing is 

 5           I think it's very important for my colleagues 

 6           to understand this, and anybody else that may 

 7           be watching.  Can you repeat the numbers on 

 8           the amount of acreage in New York State that 

 9           has been eaten up, that is no longer in 

10           productive farmland? 

11                  MR. MANGANO:  Yeah.  I mean, just to 

12           put it in perspective from, like, preparing 

13           for this testimony, some of the recent 

14           language was that New York had 9 million 

15           acres in farms, but now we're at 6 million 

16           acres in farms.  But just between 2017 and 

17           2022 we've had 364,000 acres of land lost, 

18           and that's based on U.S. Ag census data. 

19                  ASSEMBLYMAN TAGUE:  To me that is 

20           troubling, very troubling.  

21                  As I said earlier to the commissioner 

22           of Agriculture, I have this feeling, and I 

23           have for the last few years -- number one, 

24           the State of New York took local control away 


                                                                   252

 1           from our local governments and the people 

 2           that actually live in these communities.  We 

 3           no longer feel that it's necessary for them 

 4           to have an opinion, or the other local 

 5           farmers.  And what this does is when you take 

 6           that farmland away, it doesn't just hurt the 

 7           farmer but it also hurts the farmers around 

 8           them that may rent that property because they 

 9           don't have enough.  

10                  This is a serious problem.  This is 

11           much more serious than people are letting on 

12           to.  Again, I'm going to repeat what I said 

13           to the commissioner:  The left hand does not 

14           know what the right hand's doing.  We're 

15           going to get to a situation here in New York 

16           State, one of the greatest agricultural 

17           states in this country, and we're not going 

18           to be able to sustain ourselves in 

19           agriculture.  People need to smarten up at 

20           the top and figure out that we cannot 

21           continue down this road.  

22                  I really want to thank the three of 

23           you for your testimony today.  And I see that 

24           you're passionate, as I am, about saving our 


                                                                   253

 1           farmland.  New York State should be the 

 2           leader, the leader in agriculture in America.  

 3           Best quality control, four growing seasons, 

 4           the greatest five universities in 

 5           agriculture -- we should be leading.  

 6                  So thank you very much. 

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  Thank you.

 8                  CHAIRMAN PRETLOW:  One more.  

 9           Assemblywoman Anna Kelles, to close. 

10                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  I wanted to 

11           thank you all.  Your testimonies are amazing.  

12           The research you did, amazing.  

13                  A couple of things.  And I agree, the 

14           real estate transfer tax being the source of 

15           funding for the EPF means that we just do not 

16           have justification for not increasing it to 

17           500, given that it's a billion.  And it's not 

18           coming from taxpayer dollars, particularly 

19           given the federal cuts.  So thank you so much 

20           for bringing that up.  

21                  One question, on the other -- you 

22           know, I agree with you about the funding for 

23           the parks, the Park and Trail Partnership 

24           grants, capital funding.  We should also make 


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 1           sure that we connect it to an incredibly 

 2           great source of therapy for mental health, 

 3           especially for children.  And we've failed to 

 4           do that enough.  And it is a huge boon to 

 5           improve mental health, and I think that we 

 6           could all use that as well.  

 7                  You brought up 2 trillion as a backlog 

 8           of capital for parks.  Where did that number 

 9           come from?  Because I've asked that earlier 

10           today, and I was told that we don't have that 

11           or wasn't given that information.

12                  MR. COTÉ:  The number that I have been 

13           using is 2 billion, and that is solely an 

14           estimation that Parks & Trails New York has 

15           made.  That is not necessarily substantiated 

16           by the agency --

17                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  I'd love to 

18           see --

19                  MR. COTÉ:  -- it's just our best guess 

20           on the math.

21                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  I'd love to see 

22           that.  

23                  So just a question about the school 

24           meals.  And the data that I have shows that 


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 1           we have 10 million a year, we've never spent 

 2           more than 4 million a year, so we are 

 3           reallocating every year.  New York City does 

 4           not reach the 30 percent threshold, so they 

 5           wouldn't qualify right now.  They'd have to 

 6           build up.  

 7                  So if I added breakfasts and I added 

 8           25 cents and I added the entire state, would 

 9           we even come close to meeting that 10 million 

10           threshold that is currently allocated for 

11           this, for school meals? 

12                  MR. MANGANO:  No, I don't think so.  

13           The last I calculated, we would need 

14           11 million total meals, total lunch meals 

15           reimbursed, to get to that $10 million at 

16           25 percent.  

17                  The data from the 2023-2024 purchasing 

18           was two-point -- no, $3.1 million in 

19           reimbursement at the 19 cents.  So if we went 

20           up to 25-cent reimbursement, it would take us 

21           to 4.1 million. 

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  So we could 

23           actually get 6 cents per meal back to 

24           farmers. 


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 1                  MR. MANGANO:  Yes. 

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  With no more 

 3           additional funding required by the state. 

 4                  MR. MANGANO:  Yes, correct. 

 5                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  We would just 

 6           have to start allocating the funding we 

 7           actually have -- 

 8                  MR. MANGANO:  Yes. 

 9                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  -- distributed. 

10                  MR. MANGANO:  And hopefully the 

11           inclusion of breakfast would increase overall 

12           school food authority participation by making 

13           it less --

14                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Universal.

15                  MR. MANGANO:  -- less administratively 

16           burdensome for them to participate in the 

17           program. 

18                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Right.  So we 

19           could do breakfast and lunch and 25 cents and 

20           it would still fit within our budget. 

21                  MR. MANGANO:  Yes. 

22                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Great.  

23                  Farmland for a New Generation, the 1 

24           million, that is for the navigators, correct? 


                                                                   257

 1                  MR. MANGANO:  Yes. 

 2                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Great.  Thank 

 3           you so much. 

 4                  MR. MANGANO:  Yeah, thank you.  

 5                  ASSEMBLYWOMAN KELLES:  Appreciate it.  

 6                  Thank you so much.  This is wonderful. 

 7                  CHAIRWOMAN KRUEGER:  All right.  Just 

 8           double-checking.  No more Assemblymembers or 

 9           Senators with questions.  

10                  Then I want to thank the three of you 

11           for participating, and I want to officially 

12           close the first budget hearing of the 

13           2025 budget year.  

14                  We will be back here tomorrow morning 

15           at 9:30 with the EnCon and Energy hearing.  

16           It will go longer than today.  

17                  But I appreciate everybody's 

18           attendance and patience.  Thank you very 

19           much. 

20                  (Whereupon, the budget hearing 

21           concluded at 5:06 p.m.)

22  

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